Welcome to The Educational Dilemma. I'm your
host, Emma Goldsmith, head of the Dragon School
in Oxford. Thank you for listening. In this episode,
we discuss how to instill a philanthropic mindset.
Hopefully, there are some helpful hints about
how you can develop this social responsibility
in your children. So a warm welcome to this edition
of The Educational Dilemma. And I'm delighted
to be joined by Rosalie Rich and Lisa King. And
I'm actually going to get them to introduce themselves
and their role that is actually pertinent to
what we're talking about today. So, Rosalie.
Hi, I'm Rosalie Rich and I am Head of Social
Impact at The Dragon. Thank you. And Lisa. Hi,
I am Lisa King. I am CEO of an amazing charity
called Dreams Come True. And I'm a mum of two
sons, one of whom is 19 and the other just turned
17. Excellent. And Rosalie, you also have two
girls, don't you? I do, two girls. One's 13 and
one's 11. So I'm very much in this mindset. Yeah.
And as a lot of people know, I have four children
who are a little older and it's quite interesting
to see their journey on this because today we're
talking about instilling a philanthropic mindset.
And I guess a good place to start is why are
we even having this conversation? Do you think
that society has changed, has pivoted, that this
is now becoming a focus? I mean, Lisa, you're
living this daily. Why are we even having this
conversation? Well, I think so much of kind of
charitable work requires voluntary contributions.
I mean, all of Dreams Come True's budget is generated
through people, things that people do, corporates
and such like. We don't get any government money.
And that's a really important kind of bedrock
to, obviously, that's how we survive and grow
through individuals supporting us and many other
charities alike. And that really comes from every
part of the community, wealthy individuals to
businesses, but to schools. to amazing schools
who have a community, who have individuals within
them who want to support, be they the teachers,
to the children who want to be doing good for
other children or their community, depending
on the focus, and parents as well. And it gives
a sense of great togetherness, learning, opportunity
to do good for others, but also a great sense
of community that is really important. aspect
to kind of school life and to instill in young
people from a young age because there's just
so much broad benefit that can come from it.
Yeah I mean I think Rosalie at our school it
very much is our central purpose isn't it in
terms of developing those philanthropists of
the future. Yeah exactly and I think it's something
that The children learn right from reception.
I mean, we're so delighted that Dreams Come True
is one of our school charities of the year. And
they were voted for by children and staff from
reception all the way through to A Block. So
in every year at the Dragon, pupils are getting
involved in these sort of charitable endeavours.
And they come together for their year group fundraisers.
And it's something that they can do. kind of
between them. They're very involved in creating
all of that. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know,
charitable giving, I think it's been part of
all our childhoods. I mean, I remember doing
sponsor silence. That was always a treat, wasn't
it? And it's only when you're older, you realize
why adults suggested that as a good idea. But
you did sponsored silence, you did sponsored
walks, that sort of thing. So I think when we
were children, we did have that idea of a sponsored
event that you would give. I mean, did you have
this kind of mindset as a child, Lisa, about
giving back and having that sort of social responsibility?
Well, to be honest, I did through my parents.
My father is a philanthropist and he has been
amazing in my career and certainly supporting
dreams come true. But in truth, if I look back
on my education, do you know what? I don't think
so. I went to some fabulous schools and I look
back and reflect and think, golly, what a missed
opportunity for them, for all that I see you
do. We've had great work with other schools like
Seven Oaks and the philanthropy that those children
have also given and actually think that wasn't
a part that was instilled. me at that young age
it was simply a turn in my career that took place
I wasn't ever intending to go into the charity
world that took me down that pathway but how
lucky I am to have had that change and to have
had those values instilled in me through having
charity purpose that actually I didn't get in
my education if I'm really honest which I think
is a big big missing factor that should have
been there. Yeah I mean Rosalie were you conscious
of it as a younger person? No, I was going to
say I felt very much the same. And I think one
of the things that is very different now, which
I really hope that we try and make clear to children
here, is that actually when we're thinking about
a philanthropic mindset, it's many different
things. Giving money is one option, but there's
so many other ways that you can make a positive
contribution to society and to your local community.
So it might be giving time and volunteering.
It might be advocating. It might be... studying
really hard at school and coming up with a kind
of life -changing global invention that changes
the world so i think that's what i feel i wish
i'd had that at school i think there can be a
lot of pressure to think it's all about raising
a lot of money and earning your fortune and giving
it all away but there are so many different ways
that you can make a positive impact yeah i do
i do wonder about the impact of covid because
i think there was a shift um in mindset of that
community coming together in support of something
and as you rightly say it wasn't or it wasn't
about giving money in covid was it it was about
um what can you do how can you support almost
how can you make fun exactly as a family or in
your community i don't know i mean lisa did you
did you see a shift there because obviously being
in the sector at the time well i mean at the
time i didn't work for dreams come true i worked
for refuge domestic abuse charity So that was
a very hot topic. And obviously many, many, many
women living in distress and lots of opportunity
in positive light to speak about the issue, did
back -to -back media interviews. The news cycle
was constant. And actually then the uprising
in individuals wanting to support the charity
was phenomenal. It took the charity from being
relatively well -known to a household name now
because of that awareness. And as a result of
people understanding the statistics and through
COVID, that huge awareness, the charity raised.
loads and loads of money. And it was phenomenal
what people would do and how they came together
to create that kind of awakening and social consciousness
of such a huge issue and wanting to support so
many women who were in such dire straits. So
yes, I did see it, but at a really extreme end
of it where COVID was a game changer. but in
a positive way for the charity. Yeah. What about
you, Rosalie? I mean, what do you think that
empowered? I think one of the kind of most amazing
things that came from COVID was one of the problems
I have with this, or one of the big challenges,
I think, when it comes to sort of social impact
and... a sort of a general awareness about how
we can make the world a better place is that
it's so overwhelming it's really overwhelming
for adults let alone for children there's so
much that we feel we should all be doing and
I think one of the remarkable things that came
out of Covid is that we were all forced to look
at our doorsteps and it was on a much smaller
and what much more practical scale and suddenly
it felt a bit more tangible so we for example
with some of our A Blockers, just drove around
in Oxford with hot meals that our kitchens had
created to families that couldn't get out. And
just being in our local environment, travelling
a mile or two down the road with these children,
it made them look at Oxford in a completely different
light. So I think it forced us all to think about
we can't reach out beyond our local community.
So what can we do to embed ourselves here? So
just taking up on that point, Rosalie, it's interesting,
isn't it? Because I think we talk sometimes about
the negative impact that COVID had on children.
But I think you're absolutely right. The children
could see tangible differences in small things
that they could do to support the local community.
And also we became, I think, much more aware
of our local community because suddenly people
were meeting their neighbours that they hadn't
necessarily connected with previously. So I think
there was definitely... a movement at that time
to kind of think in a much more socially responsible
way. Because I think the children that we have
are extremely privileged. I always sense and
I always talk to the children about with that
comes a responsibility. But I'm always really
conscious of not thinking it as patronage because
there's nothing worse than people saying, oh,
yes, well, we've got so much. We can give you
poor people something else. I mean, Rosalie,
when you're talking about social impact in that
way, is that something that you're keen to engender
in the children? Absolutely. Absolutely. And
I think that there is so much that we all. learn
from each other and I think that's what we want
to be encouraging our children to understand
and us as adults I mean this is a lifelong thing
I think we can all be doing more of it it's not
just down to the responsibility it's not going
to be the responsibility of future generations
it's for us now we need to be thinking not in
this sort of top -down mentality but actually
how can we collaborate better how can we work
better together learn from each other and I think
that's something that I hope our charity partnerships
and our school partnerships bring out is the
you know the opportunity to work together with
others and to I was talking to Emma before I'm
obsessed with the Reith lectures this year which
are fantastic and it's all about moral revolution
but one of the things that the historian argues
is that we need to be moving away from a sort
of a self -interest to a collective interest
and so I think these opportunities to bring,
in our case, children together, but to get together
with other friends and families and have discussions
about what are our real values, what are our
morals and how can that guide us? Because they'll
be shared no matter where we come from, what
our background is. Most of us want the same thing
from a kind of global impact, positive impact
perspective. No, you're right. And I think it
can be difficult for young people. And obviously
your children, Lisa, are a bit older as well.
When they leave... a community such as a school
and go out into whether it's the world of work
or traveling or whatever, I think they find it
difficult to recreate that community feeling
where the ideas come organically out of that
and they're part of it. And therefore they have
to take that individual responsibility. I mean,
Lisa, how have your children navigated that?
Well, I mean, one is at university in Sheffield
and I don't think he's thinking of the better
good at the moment. I think he's thinking about
his social life in term one and having lots of
fun and making sure, you know, that he's attending
as many lectures as possible. But he, I'm sure,
in time will think about kind of a broader compass
than his own little life at the moment. He's
very ensconced in that. My younger son, 17, he
has additional needs. He is autistic and has
high learning needs. He is part of why I'm so
passionate about Dreams Come True, given our
support is all on children with disabilities,
but obviously those who live in poverty also.
And he gets involved with a lot of charity work
that I do. Some comes to lots of events that
I do, but he's interested also in supporting
and actually did his very first event for Dreams
Come True last week, came up to London and did
a Santa run with other supporters that we had.
Just 5K, you get dressed up in a Santa outfit.
He'd never run before. um, or trained for anything.
And actually it shed a light on the fact that
he's a really good at running. He B felt very
motivated by the funds that he could see coming
into his just giving page. And we talked about
what that would mean. And I was able to show
him, you know, you've been able to raise 1 ,500
pounds. This is what the equivalent dreams would
be for other children. This is an example of
what you've been able to create by taking part.
And on top of obviously the social value and
the value to the charity, it brought a lot to
Tom because we'd never really explored that he
would love running. And now he's found that in
his life. And so for him, that kind of mental
well -being and physical well -being for someone
who has struggles in life has been a real joy.
And that has come about through taking part in
an initiative. And then the community aspect
of that is he met others on the run. He ran with
his stepbrother also as a supporter. ensure that
he got round and didn't go off track otherwise
that would be very frightening so actually he's
he's moving in a direction of showing support
and interest for others and and i think that
is wonderful to see absolutely i mean what about
your children rosalie how have you seen their
journey towards um philanthropy or are they not
there yet is it's just something that they're
not they're not I think that really echoes with
me and it made me think actually can put a lot
of pressure on our children I feel and I know
I do and mine to always be thinking of others.
There is a real danger. I think part of all of
this is recognising how lucky we all are and
enjoying that. So going to uni or, you know,
in the case of my children who are entering their
teens and they are very focused on self, that's
inevitable. Children are. And I think it's about
I try and balance it with sort of all those times
that they really enjoy. Also just doing other
practical things. So, for example, after our
big dragon sale on Saturday, my children always
come and drop off some of the toys and the books
to local community groups and charities. They
absolutely love it. And we have lovely conversations
on the way. And I think it's just about kind
of peppering those moments across the year when
you can. It's not about sort of. almost sort
of making it too overwhelming for them because
I think it can be really overwhelming it's just
grasping those opportunities getting them engaged
with things that they're already really into
so for example my younger daughter is obsessed
with animals so that's a good opportunity to
think about whether there's an animal charity
that she might like to support in some way so
yeah it's finding an entry point I guess that
works for them at their stage in life yeah it's
a good idea what they like yes exactly yeah I
love that I love that yeah I think I think that's
a really interesting point because I think it
can be quite overwhelming for children and particularly
when they hear things about global issues. Totally.
Frightening. sustainability and is the world
going to explode? You know, their minds kind
of go to catastrophizing. I mean, you're right
to find that kind of entry point, but at what
point do you think we should start talking to
children about inequality and saying that, you
know, some people aren't as fortunate as we are?
I mean, how do we have those conversations with
children right from the start? Well, personally,
I think you have those conversations from the
start and ongoing, but it's how you have them.
those conversations and making sure they're appropriate
for the age group that you're speaking with.
I certainly have felt that strongly through my
life, but I suppose since I've had children,
life at refuge, when obviously, you know, there
is the discussion about equality between men
and women and how relationships should manifest
and how behavior should manifest and treatment
of each other. That has always been there from
the get -go for me, but obviously I'm minded
to... how I speak about a complex subject matter.
And certainly my children have a solid understanding
of violence against women. And then when it comes
to children and the lens of dreams come true,
just sharing those stories and giving examples
and where appropriate, referencing kind of news
stories or stories of friends and being able
to have an honest but couched conversation that's
appropriate for the age group or the level of
understanding that the individual will have.
But yeah, I think from the get go. I mean, what
do you think, Rosalie? I agree. I think the more
that you can sort of talk about it. And I think
the other important thing is to sort of, I think
sometimes as parents, we put a lot of pressure
on ourselves and feel like we need to have all
the answers. And actually, and it can stop us
bringing up conversations. And actually, sometimes
there's opportunities just to explore it together.
You know, if you read something in the news or...
For example, in the case of Dreams Come True,
one of the things that I think you do so brilliantly,
Lisa, is tell these stories from a very personal
perspective. But that, of course, is going to
bring up big questions about what are these children's
challenges? And we don't need to feel that we
know it. It can be that we just try and explore
it together. I think that's a helpful way because
I think it's otherwise. I just worry that this
sort of this kind of global pressure that we
all feel and this overwhelm can stop us actually
having these conversations. Because we feel that
we need the answers. I agree. And I think, you
know, we always find with children, it's about
clarity. It really is. They don't want nuance.
They don't want us to kind of go around the edges.
They just want clarity. And, you know, I remember
another charity that supports children with grief,
talking about that real importance to be clear
and speak in language that there's going to be
no doubt. Because, you know, they were saying
about the using, you know, you've lost your parent.
lost to a small child means that you know they're
going to come back at some point you're going
to find them you know so it is it is that that
clarity and as you rightly say it's finding it's
finding that that appropriate moment isn't it
to start the conversation and as you rightly
say something that they're interested in well
i was just going to say with the work that we're
doing we are supporting children with very high
needs but As we say on the tin, dreams come true.
There is the joy and the happiness and the magic
that we're delivering. So there's something really
positive about that. You know, get involved and
do something really good for other children.
Look at the joy that's being created and to feel
really positive about that and valuable in terms
of your contribution to somebody else's life
and to have that good feeling that can come about,
I hope, I think is a really important part of
the story of dreams come true and the joy that
we give. And I hope for the children who see.
what their endeavours have been able to deliver
for other children will give to them that really
feeling of like, wow, you know, some great stuff's
happened here. We can be really, we can high
five this because it's just been so fantastic.
Yes, and I think there's an immediate empathy
between children, isn't there? They like, you
know, when we're looking at what the dreams are
of your children. Lisa, there's going to be huge
parallels, whether it's a games console or a
kind of dream family holiday. I think that's
going to be one of the really exciting things
about working with you guys across the year is
that these children will be thinking about others,
but from their own perspective of what they would
also find really enjoyable. And they'll share
that excitement with the children. I think that's
true. But I think from an educational point of
view, we talk a lot about children's well -being,
our own children's well -being. And that concept
of gratitude, we all know that gratitude is something
that you know gives us a self of a feeling of
calm and um it's something that gives you kind
of a dopamine boost in the morning but equally
the empathy and doing something for someone else
also gives that feeling of kind of well -being
so there is there is a really real importance
i think in education for children to have a an
environment that is going to give them that to
a help them realize that what they have is is
worthwhile and how how lucky they are But equally,
that doing something for someone else gives you
that sense of well -being and self -worth as
well, that you have got something to give, you
have got something to share. Yeah, absolutely.
I also think... Which is all part of the education.
Yeah, and I think actually, if you look at the
school day now, and this wasn't, I don't think,
the case certainly when I was at school, but
I look at the lessons that our children sit through
now and these kind of... Big or small topics
that we're talking about appear in so many different
subjects. They're part of geography. They're
part of history. They're certainly part of CHE.
So there's so many opportunities to have these
conversations, to be discussing these kind of
various issues through a different lens. And
I think that's really helpful because I feel
certainly when I was at school, I just don't
think we talked about migration in geography.
And certainly we didn't have anything like...
CHE or religious studies certainly when I was
at school was very much focused on kind of core
religion as opposed to the much wider sort of
ethical conversations that we're having with
our children now and one thing that I always
come back to in these situations is how can you
teach empathy I don't know what you think Lisa
can you teach a child to be empathetic uh I guess
I think you can learn You can learn that by seeing
it, by living it, by having that experience ongoing.
I mean, you thread that through your school in
every channel it would have in any opportunity.
And I think that will happen gradually and naturally
without being like spoon fed. You know, this
is what empathy is and this is what is when this
is how we will respond in such a circumstance.
It'll just be like learned behavior and evidenced
and then kind of, I guess, mirrored and lived
through that way. So, yes, I do. But I think
it has to be an opportunity to learn. on an ongoing
basis in as many different ways as possible to
achieve that, which sounds as though you're doing
that kind of on a daily or weekly basis. Yeah,
because I think it can be a challenge because
I think... Some children come from a highly competitive
background, a background where anything that
they've wanted, they've got. And I think it's
so important to have it ingrained in, not only
just in our wider community, but in the actual
curriculum and ensuring that we are giving those
children a conversation, to be able to have the
conversation about what it looks like to be empathetic.
And it's a strength to be empathetic, not a weakness
or a softness. It's actually a real strength.
Yeah, but I'm sure as leaders in your school,
you'll be all demonstrating that. And as great
role models, that will be identified and seen
by the children and then mirrored. And if it
is celebrated and seen as a positive and something
to strive towards, then I would hope and I can
only imagine that that will have that impact.
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, and Rosalie will
have heard me say this before, but we had a great
social entrepreneur came and talked to the children.
And he was showing that actually... This can
be a career as well. And I think, you know, a
part of our responsibility as an educational
establishment is to give the children the tools
with which they can go out and work in these
sectors. They can make a difference. And as you
rightly said earlier on, Rosalie, that as a society.
We need to have that mind shift change again.
It's not just going out and making money, but
to be a really healthy, global community. We've
got to have this purpose in our lives to make
it a better place. Absolutely. And I was going
to say, I think it also comes down to the way
that we are encouraging children to think. And
I know that that's something that the social
entrepreneur that Emma just mentioned spoke a
lot about, which is actually encouraging our
children, not just to kind of necessarily...
to understand these global issues, but also to
question why they're happening, question why
there is this big challenges in society, because
therein lies the bright idea that we'll make
a huge change. You need to go right back to the
cause and really question there. And I think
that's where I think certainly in a school where
we're working with younger children, there's
a real opportunity to sort of embed that way
of thinking from quite a young age. So you don't
just accept things and look for solutions. You
also question. why they happen and and look at
it from the very beginning I was going to say
I had heard that when you mentioned that very
same point at the beginning of our of our chat
and I thought yeah Rosalie's right it's not just
about the giving and the money it's it's instilling
in the young people that actually there's learning
and contributions they can make through their
careers or kind of inventions or new or charitable
and social purpose that they as individuals through
their professional lives and education can bring
to the better good and I really listened to that
which is the point that Emma's so rightly brought
up now again to look at because what a gift to
give and that's so true and you can do it in
many more ways than just the hard cash. Yeah,
because some people find it difficult. Some people
find it difficult to go and ask for money or
do something and ask friends to support. And
I guess it's also telling children that if that's
not what you feel comfortable with, well, there
are other ways exactly that you could use your
time and resources to think of things. You don't
have to always be the person out there who's
asking for money because there are some people
who are brilliant at that and others who just
feel much more awkward about that. I guess role
modelling is incredibly important for this. think
children seeing adults who are doing this? I
mean, if you are a parent and suddenly realizing,
oh my goodness, actually, I haven't even thought
about talking to my child about this, and I'm
not sure we're doing enough. I mean, where can
an adult start? And what's the sort of things
they could start doing in order to model this
for a child? Well, for me personally, as a mum,
I have lots of different ways of kind of looking
at support from coming to events and clapping
people on to helping me with a mailing that I
took on board a couple of years back and, you
know, putting information in envelopes. But more
than that, sitting down, reading it, thinking
like, why are we doing this? What is this all
about? Who is this kind of contributing towards?
And, you know, doing the actions. thinking about
why we're doing the actions and having that kind
of discussion and thinking about that and having,
I think both, I can't remember which of you,
maybe Rosalie, you said having, you know, touch
points throughout the year. So it's not just
a one moment. So it's kind of just integrated
into life and discussions. And I think that's
the way I've kind of taken my path with my children
and been a regular donator to a water aid and
have had the literature come through and look
at kind of giving through the lens of our home
country, but the wider world. But again, to try
and avoid the frightening, catastrophizing kind
of environmental concerns that are rightly there.
But for the eyes of the child to think about
how you can do something really good for someone
else. And the literature that is shared is very
helpful to that effect and shares the lives of,
you know, children in other countries and what
we can, what we're doing to help and support.
So lots of different touch points and ways, but
to find the right balance. I've worked in charity
the last 20 odd years and I don't want to be.
forcing my children. I want them to come to the
table also and do so. And the way I've done that
is try and make it fun and informative. And I
think one thing that I know does work well is
when the adults, when it comes to birthdays and
things saying, actually, either I'd love you
rather than giving me a present, I'd rather we
give some money to charity. But equally, rather
than having like a treat for a birthday, actually,
let's go and do something together that's going
to support. somebody else. And it's kind of modelling
for them the way in which they might think about
doing things in a slightly different way. Yeah,
I totally agree. You know, you can plan some
really lovely things. I mean, make these family
traditions, if it's the sort of annual charity
walk together or on Monday after the dragon sale
where we all get in the minibus and drive off.
I think celebrate those moments together, make
them into little traditions because children
love that. And the other thing I think is key
is To sort of sit down again, particularly in
these really kind of complex and quite overwhelming
times, sit down as a family and Christmas is
a perfect time to do it and think about what
are our values? What are our moral values? What's
important to us? The children are encouraged
to do it all the time. We're always talking to
them about sort of kindness and respecting each
other, but not just about sort of these bigger
kind of more. challenging global issues but just
what are what are our values as a family and
what can we do around those that will help to
kind of strengthen those and demonstrate those
and I know for me personally that's something
I feel that this Christmas I want us to sort
of be spending a bit more time on because the
year runs away with you and these holidays and
this precious time together is a real opportunity
to suddenly sit down and sort of re -establish
some of those. Totally. And I think you're quite
right. And I think this, when people are listening
to this, it may be in January or February, but
I think that's also a time when you're reflecting
on Christmas and the materialism. And actually,
is that something that we want to keep going
with our children and maybe looking at it? Because
you're right. I mean, actually, you know, the
present giving, it's over in a flash. The memories
they have are actually about the time and the
being together and the precious times that they
spend and actually getting... the children to
reflect on that is, again, quite a good starting
point to saying, actually, what do we value?
What is Christmas about? It is about sharing
food, sharing our time with others, whether it's
family members or inviting people who haven't
got anywhere else to go at Christmas. It's quite
a good time to be having these kind of reflective
conversations. So just thinking about this idea
of kind of like the successful life, just finding
a quote here, which says, A successful life isn't
a happy one and it's an extraordinary one, which
I think is a really interesting, different way
of looking at life. It doesn't mean that you're
going to be happy all of the time, that actually
there are going to be bumps in the road, which
makes every life extraordinary. And it's the
way in which you deal with it. And I guess that's
very true for the people that you support with
your charity, Lisa. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,
the stories are. In equal measure, heartbreaking
and deeply inspiring. I mean, what amazing children
to, you know, have had such a vast array of different
experiences and to then kind of, you know, come
through some of that kind of physical challenge
to then live their lives and turn to the charity
because they are living in poverty and they have
few kind of like resources to access. And to,
through the support of the charity, bring them
that joy, whether it's special tech equipment
that the child might need or an amazing experience
or some real memory creating moments, you know,
makeovers for children in the home or, you know,
in the house or in the garden, a whole array
of different dreams and different things that
a child might want. But to, and to bring that
to a child who has experienced so much kind of
physical challenge is, yeah, it's a real joy
to be able to do. And I do think, Rosalie, you're
right in the sense that just imagine before we
say that it might just be interesting to how
how do we frame our charitable giving at school?
So it's an open application process. We have
three charities a year. One is a local charity,
one is a national or international charity, and
one is an environmental charity. And we ask charities
from all over, providing they have a UK registered
charity number, to apply. It's open to everyone.
The one premise is that the charities must in
some way support children and families. We then
get a whole stream of applicants, which is great,
and it's been so rewarding to see year on year
more and more applications. coming in. And, you
know, we were delighted when Peter from Dreams
Come True wrote to us out of the blue. We've
not had a contact with the charity before, but
it's great because it means that hopefully the
opportunities further getting out further. And
then our A Block or our year eight social impact
ambassadors work with. the social impact team
to sort of streamline and shortlist some charities.
And then we then put it out to the children and
they vote for the charities really that they,
you know, we have a series of presentations on
behalf, you know, a couple of slides each on
each charity and they vote for the ones that
really kind of engage them the most and that
really seem to hit home with them. And it's so
interesting to see year on year the different
organisations that they choose. And then we're
so fortunate in that we have an opportunity to
work in partnership with these amazing organisations
and they generously come in and give assemblies
to the children and spectrum talks in the evening.
I think the most important thing is that it's
not just they vote for a charity, they do a fundraiser
and that's it. For us, it really is about working
with the charity across the year and any opportunity
to bring them in or keep talking about the projects
that they're working on. Yeah. And I think that
when it comes to actually the children being
engaged with charities, it's because they've
been involved in choosing them, I guess, which
again is back to that point that if they can
empathise with who they're raising money from,
that's really key. But I think the other element
that we... We do have an event at our school
which really focuses the children on creating
some way of making money within two hours at
the end of this term. But then also thinking
about where they want that money to go. And again,
it's... them understanding it's their effort
that raises the money and then they decide where
to go and it's giving them that experience of
that that cycle and that philanthropic cycle
and which works so well doesn't it rosalie absolutely
and i think it's also something they discuss
between themselves i mean we all know how influenced
children's are by each other and this kind of
voting process is absolutely not a sort of eyes
closed hands up type vote you know we we want
the children to talk about it and talk about
it between themselves which which organizations
they're interested in and why they might want
to support them. And so I think it's just a really
helpful opportunity for us, I think, to be able
to get the children talking together and with
their teachers about why they're going to choose
certain charities. And it's amazing to see the
results because you never, when they come in,
we're never quite sure which direction it's going
to go in. Yeah, totally. Lisa, I'm interested
in what are the current challenges in the charity
sector that you're facing? It's going to sound
really obvious and it's not a, you know, it is
just the truth. It is, it is always the money.
It is the, it is the raising the funds. It is
bringing in the funds and the opportunities.
But that said, I mean, there have been many,
many stories of charities facing great challenge
this year and it's not surprising. But what we
have done a great job outside is we were very
lucky to have a pro bono agency help us with
a big rebrand. We've got a new logo and we've
got our little dream helpers and the colors that
sit within our website that has done a great
job of kind of reinvigorating, I think, our brand
and really speaks to the joy and the happiness
and kind of all the magic making that we do at
the charity. And we've worked hard to grow our
social media platforms and through that reached
a whole new audience of customers. kind of individuals
and corporates wanting to support us. Not a vast
number, but it's growing. And so we have seen
kind of growth in that arena of fundraising.
I mean, to... to have been voted by you to be
the charity of the year for kind of your UK tranche
of initiatives is wonderful. I mean, how great.
And I love that the kids voted for us. It means
much to us to have, you know, that peer -to -peer,
child -to -child kind of understanding, wanting
to support others. I think what better model
could be in place? So funding really is the big
issue of the moment. And, you know, we have cyber
considerations also, you know, those sorts of
risks are really kind of real and prevalent,
especially when you're working with children
and like yourselves, kind of, you know, data
matters to be very thoughtful towards. And we've,
again, got some good. Measures in place for that.
But they're kind of like the two big things at
the moment from the sector wide considerations.
But in both areas, we're, you know, being thoughtful
towards that. And I think we're in a good place.
Yeah. It's interesting you mentioned about the
social media aspect because, you know, a lot
of children are coming through and want to be
in the media or want to have some, you know,
career working in that sort of creative space.
And to actually remember that charities need
all of that as well. It's not, you know, and
this comes back to this idea that actually the
career doesn't necessarily need. to be in the
actual fundraising. It can be in terms of the
messaging and the creativity associated with
it. So the wonderful thing about children is
they're very idealistic and obviously in them
wanting to help everybody. How do we talk to
children when they say, well, why aren't we giving
more money away? Or why aren't we taking somebody
in who's homeless? How can we frame that sort
of conversation? Lisa, do you have any thoughts
on that? Well, I mean, yes, I guess there's that
kind of like idealistic kind of approach that
children may have that is out of reach and impossible
to do. But I think it's about framing it in the,
you know, what you can do, what you are doing
and to ensure that they know the contribution
that they're making. And that, of course, you
know, there are many people to offer support
and charities to do so. And as long as kind of
we're doing, you know, a part of that in our
own kind of micro world, there are others who
are providing support in a bigger way. And just
to ensure that they don't maybe have the weight
of their world on the shoulders. They know it's
not just on them. It's a community, collective,
shared responsibility. And that life is about
balance. I mean, that is something that I try.
to instill it for myself not always successfully
but um you know to share that too you know there
is a balance to everything and to do too much
of one thing to a detriment of another isn't
going to work and we need to make sure that we
have got space to you know live our lives do
the fun stuff do the charity and the community
and care for others be able to be successful
at education you can't do everything and all
of it you have to take a balanced approach and
and we share it with others and as you're doing
at dragons you're taking a community approach
to it and together collectively a greater good
can come about so I think it's imparting those
messages but to champion and love the fact that
they want to try yeah that would be I mean what's
not to love about that I agree although and the
other element is is not to kind of give them
a sense of guilt about the fact that they are
living a very comfortable life. I think that's
the conversation. I mean, Rosie, I don't know
whether you would agree, because obviously, you
know, we don't want them to feel guilty about
everything they have either. No, exactly. And,
you know, that would be the worst thing to happen.
I think it's really important, as I think your
point, Lisa, is so good. Life is about balance.
Be grateful for what you've got. Enjoy these
opportunities you have, but use these opportunities
for greater good as and when you can. think about
what you do enjoy and try thinking about how
can you do more of that to help other people.
But I think the point about sort of looking kind
of on your doorstep is key. And I always say
to my children, if everyone just cared about
the sort of people around us and started there,
if we were all doing that, actually the reach
would be huge. You know, it's not about sort
of helping everyone all at once. Sometimes you
just have to think, what's tangible for me now?
What can I do locally or that sort of aligns
with what I really enjoy? animals running whatever
it might be and see it as just a an exciting
opportunity and a you know we're fortunate to
be able to do it but enjoy those moments a lot
of these children are so empathetic and it's
something I'm always aware of when we do these
assemblies and when we're doing things like the
form votes you know I'm putting together those
slides is some children find this really really
upsetting you know kids are so empathetic and
so I think it's also how you talk about it because
We don't want to overwhelm children. That's not
what it's about. We want to have these conversations,
but you know your child and you know how capable
they are of understanding how much they can,
you know, they can take. We do have a responsibility
to obviously sort of present it to them in an
age appropriate and a child appropriate way,
depending on who they are. And drawing some threads
together. Who have been big influences to you?
I mean, we've talked about our own childhood,
probably charity and philanthropy wasn't spoken
about as much. But were there people in your
life that have really inspired you to go on this
journey, whether it was a teacher or someone
later in life? Lisa, who was it for you? I think
in my early day, maybe not kind of from the philanthropy
side, but just kind of in school and to, you
know, to build towards, you know. as strong a
good an education as you could get and to have
fun while doing it certainly one of my teachers
when I was um at a school down in Sussex uh Mrs
Beale I remember her very fondly it was only
10 years of age but she was very inspiring and
actually very supportive just as a person to
kind of other personal matters that were going
on for me then at that stage and you know I remember
her very very much and the support that she gave
and how lovely to be able to reflect on that
haven't done that for a while which is a nice
moment to have and then really I suppose in my
career my boss that I had when I joined Refuge
and my charity career started she was a big influence
on my life and a kind of a real big change maker
in helping me to you know think about my social
values and my politics also which I think has
made me a better person and then I suppose the
only other big influence in my life really is
probably my youngest son with his kind of additional
needs and his autism and making me view life.
differently to your point emmy you know what
and the question you asked earlier about what
does a successful life look like and those kind
of moments of decision making and actually that's
he has really helped me to reframe that my pathway
in life has been through the sausage factory
you know it yes it's kind of you know just how
it has been and was for me but for him it's very
different and i look at it through the lens of
Where is the happiness? Where is the kindness?
And actually, there is joy to be had for him
as a child in taking a different pathway. And
I think it's about that, looking at everyone
as an individual. And we could pull in so many
different points of our conversation to that
end, where Rosalie has said, education doesn't
need to be all about gunning for the money and
making it a big, very successful city career.
Actually, it could be about building something
fantastic for the bigger and better good. And,
you know, that it's success through everybody's
channel and having that perspective that is about
being an individual and possibly not the sausage
factory approach that four decades ago when I
was going through my education, you know, was
the pathway. So, you know, really celebrate that,
looking at everything from a much more individual
perspective. It's not enough, even in today's
world. I'm sure, you know, you know that in the
educational world, it's still a model, but it's
way better than before. And yeah, I think that
that's, you know, certainly he's one of the,
big influencing factors in my life and has fundamentally
changed me and my thinking. That's really interesting.
It's also just kind of touching on that entrepreneurial
spirit, you know, that actually probably in our
generations, we've come through a sort of a corporate
framework of kind of the working world. But I
think we are moving much more towards that entrepreneurial.
choosing what you want to do, how you want to
do it and having the space and society allowing
you to work individually and follow your pathway.
You're nodding there, Rosie. Yeah, I was going
to say, I feel exactly the same. I think we're
so fortunate that our children and my children
are being, they're growing up in an environment
where there's no blueprint. You can really, you
know, we are giving them the tools to do and
be anything they want to be. And, you know, in
terms of my sort of, Well, I guess my influences
at the moment seem to be day to day when I'm
engaging with these children. And one of the
things that really strikes me is what great advocates
these children are for what they believe in.
And I think that's something that, Lisa, you
do brilliantly through your storytelling within
Dreams Come True. But our children, you know,
our children are so brave. They stand up for
what they believe in, whether that's in the playground
or whether that's on a much kind of bigger scale.
And so I think. For me, that's something that
just influences me all the time. These children,
despite having, you know, they're juggling so
much, the pressure of school, they're juggling
friendships, they're trying to keep their families
happy, they're holding it all together, and yet
still they will think about others and come up
with exciting ideas and take so much joy in it.
You know, they love... coming together for a
colour run or whatever it might be, or just these
children that stand up in assembly. I remember
it so clearly last year, two of our year eights
stood up and made an argument for why we should
turn the heating down by two degrees because
of the amazing impact it would have. And it's
so incredible. They're also doing their end of
school exams. And so for me, it's just sort of,
we all have so much capacity. It's just finding.
and moments. It's challenging. Yeah, it's challenging
it and not feeling like we have to do everything.
Just sort of choose those few things that you
really believe in and model it for our kids and
encourage our children to do the same. I think
that's a really good place to tie up actually,
Rosalie, because it is. It's about our modelling
and giving children a space but making it manageable,
not overwhelming. And just to your point, I remember...
A couple of dragons talking about little Scottish
soldiers, which is a charity that supports children
of military families when maybe somebody has
been injured or sadly lost in action. And I just
thought. What a powerful message that was coming
from children to say of military families wanting
to support children of other military families.
They could empathise with how those children
may be feeling in the situation they found themselves
in. So the power of the children is extraordinary.
Well, thank you so much for being part of this
conversation. Lisa, it's lovely to be able to
talk to you about your charity. And obviously,
we're very proud to be a partner with you this
year. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank
you both very much. Thank you for listening to
today's dilemma. If you'd like to hear more about
what I get up to, please follow me on Instagram
at headinheels. Or if you want to learn more
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is dragonschooloxford. And if you've got any
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do email us at podcast at dragonschool .org.
So until next time.