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Welcome to The Educational Dilemma. I'm your

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host, Emma Goldsmith, head of the Dragon School

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in Oxford. Thank you for listening. In this episode,

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we discuss how to instill a philanthropic mindset.

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Hopefully, there are some helpful hints about

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how you can develop this social responsibility

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in your children. So a warm welcome to this edition

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of The Educational Dilemma. And I'm delighted

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to be joined by Rosalie Rich and Lisa King. And

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I'm actually going to get them to introduce themselves

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and their role that is actually pertinent to

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what we're talking about today. So, Rosalie.

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Hi, I'm Rosalie Rich and I am Head of Social

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Impact at The Dragon. Thank you. And Lisa. Hi,

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I am Lisa King. I am CEO of an amazing charity

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called Dreams Come True. And I'm a mum of two

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sons, one of whom is 19 and the other just turned

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17. Excellent. And Rosalie, you also have two

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girls, don't you? I do, two girls. One's 13 and

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one's 11. So I'm very much in this mindset. Yeah.

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And as a lot of people know, I have four children

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who are a little older and it's quite interesting

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to see their journey on this because today we're

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talking about instilling a philanthropic mindset.

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And I guess a good place to start is why are

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we even having this conversation? Do you think

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that society has changed, has pivoted, that this

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is now becoming a focus? I mean, Lisa, you're

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living this daily. Why are we even having this

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conversation? Well, I think so much of kind of

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charitable work requires voluntary contributions.

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I mean, all of Dreams Come True's budget is generated

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through people, things that people do, corporates

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and such like. We don't get any government money.

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And that's a really important kind of bedrock

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to, obviously, that's how we survive and grow

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through individuals supporting us and many other

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charities alike. And that really comes from every

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part of the community, wealthy individuals to

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businesses, but to schools. to amazing schools

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who have a community, who have individuals within

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them who want to support, be they the teachers,

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to the children who want to be doing good for

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other children or their community, depending

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on the focus, and parents as well. And it gives

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a sense of great togetherness, learning, opportunity

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to do good for others, but also a great sense

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of community that is really important. aspect

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to kind of school life and to instill in young

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people from a young age because there's just

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so much broad benefit that can come from it.

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Yeah I mean I think Rosalie at our school it

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very much is our central purpose isn't it in

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terms of developing those philanthropists of

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the future. Yeah exactly and I think it's something

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that The children learn right from reception.

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I mean, we're so delighted that Dreams Come True

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is one of our school charities of the year. And

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they were voted for by children and staff from

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reception all the way through to A Block. So

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in every year at the Dragon, pupils are getting

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involved in these sort of charitable endeavours.

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And they come together for their year group fundraisers.

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And it's something that they can do. kind of

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between them. They're very involved in creating

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all of that. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know,

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charitable giving, I think it's been part of

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all our childhoods. I mean, I remember doing

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sponsor silence. That was always a treat, wasn't

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it? And it's only when you're older, you realize

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why adults suggested that as a good idea. But

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you did sponsored silence, you did sponsored

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walks, that sort of thing. So I think when we

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were children, we did have that idea of a sponsored

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event that you would give. I mean, did you have

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this kind of mindset as a child, Lisa, about

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giving back and having that sort of social responsibility?

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Well, to be honest, I did through my parents.

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My father is a philanthropist and he has been

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amazing in my career and certainly supporting

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dreams come true. But in truth, if I look back

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on my education, do you know what? I don't think

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so. I went to some fabulous schools and I look

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back and reflect and think, golly, what a missed

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opportunity for them, for all that I see you

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do. We've had great work with other schools like

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Seven Oaks and the philanthropy that those children

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have also given and actually think that wasn't

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a part that was instilled. me at that young age

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it was simply a turn in my career that took place

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I wasn't ever intending to go into the charity

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world that took me down that pathway but how

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lucky I am to have had that change and to have

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had those values instilled in me through having

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charity purpose that actually I didn't get in

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my education if I'm really honest which I think

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is a big big missing factor that should have

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been there. Yeah I mean Rosalie were you conscious

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of it as a younger person? No, I was going to

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say I felt very much the same. And I think one

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of the things that is very different now, which

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I really hope that we try and make clear to children

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here, is that actually when we're thinking about

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a philanthropic mindset, it's many different

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things. Giving money is one option, but there's

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so many other ways that you can make a positive

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contribution to society and to your local community.

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So it might be giving time and volunteering.

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It might be advocating. It might be... studying

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really hard at school and coming up with a kind

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of life -changing global invention that changes

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the world so i think that's what i feel i wish

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i'd had that at school i think there can be a

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lot of pressure to think it's all about raising

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a lot of money and earning your fortune and giving

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it all away but there are so many different ways

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that you can make a positive impact yeah i do

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i do wonder about the impact of covid because

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i think there was a shift um in mindset of that

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community coming together in support of something

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and as you rightly say it wasn't or it wasn't

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about giving money in covid was it it was about

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um what can you do how can you support almost

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how can you make fun exactly as a family or in

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your community i don't know i mean lisa did you

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did you see a shift there because obviously being

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in the sector at the time well i mean at the

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time i didn't work for dreams come true i worked

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for refuge domestic abuse charity So that was

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a very hot topic. And obviously many, many, many

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women living in distress and lots of opportunity

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in positive light to speak about the issue, did

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back -to -back media interviews. The news cycle

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was constant. And actually then the uprising

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in individuals wanting to support the charity

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was phenomenal. It took the charity from being

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relatively well -known to a household name now

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because of that awareness. And as a result of

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people understanding the statistics and through

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COVID, that huge awareness, the charity raised.

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loads and loads of money. And it was phenomenal

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what people would do and how they came together

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to create that kind of awakening and social consciousness

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of such a huge issue and wanting to support so

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many women who were in such dire straits. So

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yes, I did see it, but at a really extreme end

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of it where COVID was a game changer. but in

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a positive way for the charity. Yeah. What about

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you, Rosalie? I mean, what do you think that

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empowered? I think one of the kind of most amazing

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things that came from COVID was one of the problems

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I have with this, or one of the big challenges,

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I think, when it comes to sort of social impact

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and... a sort of a general awareness about how

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we can make the world a better place is that

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it's so overwhelming it's really overwhelming

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for adults let alone for children there's so

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much that we feel we should all be doing and

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I think one of the remarkable things that came

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out of Covid is that we were all forced to look

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at our doorsteps and it was on a much smaller

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and what much more practical scale and suddenly

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it felt a bit more tangible so we for example

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with some of our A Blockers, just drove around

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in Oxford with hot meals that our kitchens had

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created to families that couldn't get out. And

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just being in our local environment, travelling

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a mile or two down the road with these children,

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it made them look at Oxford in a completely different

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light. So I think it forced us all to think about

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we can't reach out beyond our local community.

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So what can we do to embed ourselves here? So

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just taking up on that point, Rosalie, it's interesting,

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isn't it? Because I think we talk sometimes about

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the negative impact that COVID had on children.

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But I think you're absolutely right. The children

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could see tangible differences in small things

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that they could do to support the local community.

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And also we became, I think, much more aware

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of our local community because suddenly people

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were meeting their neighbours that they hadn't

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necessarily connected with previously. So I think

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there was definitely... a movement at that time

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to kind of think in a much more socially responsible

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way. Because I think the children that we have

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are extremely privileged. I always sense and

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I always talk to the children about with that

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comes a responsibility. But I'm always really

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conscious of not thinking it as patronage because

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there's nothing worse than people saying, oh,

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yes, well, we've got so much. We can give you

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poor people something else. I mean, Rosalie,

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when you're talking about social impact in that

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way, is that something that you're keen to engender

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in the children? Absolutely. Absolutely. And

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I think that there is so much that we all. learn

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from each other and I think that's what we want

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to be encouraging our children to understand

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and us as adults I mean this is a lifelong thing

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I think we can all be doing more of it it's not

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just down to the responsibility it's not going

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to be the responsibility of future generations

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it's for us now we need to be thinking not in

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this sort of top -down mentality but actually

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how can we collaborate better how can we work

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better together learn from each other and I think

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that's something that I hope our charity partnerships

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and our school partnerships bring out is the

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you know the opportunity to work together with

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others and to I was talking to Emma before I'm

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obsessed with the Reith lectures this year which

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are fantastic and it's all about moral revolution

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but one of the things that the historian argues

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is that we need to be moving away from a sort

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of a self -interest to a collective interest

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and so I think these opportunities to bring,

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in our case, children together, but to get together

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with other friends and families and have discussions

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about what are our real values, what are our

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morals and how can that guide us? Because they'll

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be shared no matter where we come from, what

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our background is. Most of us want the same thing

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from a kind of global impact, positive impact

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perspective. No, you're right. And I think it

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can be difficult for young people. And obviously

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your children, Lisa, are a bit older as well.

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When they leave... a community such as a school

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and go out into whether it's the world of work

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or traveling or whatever, I think they find it

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difficult to recreate that community feeling

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where the ideas come organically out of that

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and they're part of it. And therefore they have

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to take that individual responsibility. I mean,

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Lisa, how have your children navigated that?

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Well, I mean, one is at university in Sheffield

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and I don't think he's thinking of the better

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good at the moment. I think he's thinking about

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his social life in term one and having lots of

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fun and making sure, you know, that he's attending

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as many lectures as possible. But he, I'm sure,

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in time will think about kind of a broader compass

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than his own little life at the moment. He's

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very ensconced in that. My younger son, 17, he

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has additional needs. He is autistic and has

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high learning needs. He is part of why I'm so

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passionate about Dreams Come True, given our

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support is all on children with disabilities,

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but obviously those who live in poverty also.

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And he gets involved with a lot of charity work

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that I do. Some comes to lots of events that

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I do, but he's interested also in supporting

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and actually did his very first event for Dreams

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Come True last week, came up to London and did

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a Santa run with other supporters that we had.

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Just 5K, you get dressed up in a Santa outfit.

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He'd never run before. um, or trained for anything.

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And actually it shed a light on the fact that

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he's a really good at running. He B felt very

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motivated by the funds that he could see coming

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into his just giving page. And we talked about

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what that would mean. And I was able to show

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him, you know, you've been able to raise 1 ,500

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pounds. This is what the equivalent dreams would

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be for other children. This is an example of

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what you've been able to create by taking part.

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And on top of obviously the social value and

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the value to the charity, it brought a lot to

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Tom because we'd never really explored that he

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would love running. And now he's found that in

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his life. And so for him, that kind of mental

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well -being and physical well -being for someone

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who has struggles in life has been a real joy.

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And that has come about through taking part in

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an initiative. And then the community aspect

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of that is he met others on the run. He ran with

00:12:18.870 --> 00:12:21.820
his stepbrother also as a supporter. ensure that

00:12:21.820 --> 00:12:23.679
he got round and didn't go off track otherwise

00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:26.820
that would be very frightening so actually he's

00:12:26.820 --> 00:12:29.000
he's moving in a direction of showing support

00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:31.340
and interest for others and and i think that

00:12:31.340 --> 00:12:34.600
is wonderful to see absolutely i mean what about

00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:36.879
your children rosalie how have you seen their

00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:40.220
journey towards um philanthropy or are they not

00:12:40.220 --> 00:12:41.700
there yet is it's just something that they're

00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:45.220
not they're not I think that really echoes with

00:12:45.220 --> 00:12:47.320
me and it made me think actually can put a lot

00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:49.539
of pressure on our children I feel and I know

00:12:49.539 --> 00:12:51.679
I do and mine to always be thinking of others.

00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:54.519
There is a real danger. I think part of all of

00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:56.879
this is recognising how lucky we all are and

00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:59.179
enjoying that. So going to uni or, you know,

00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:01.320
in the case of my children who are entering their

00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.500
teens and they are very focused on self, that's

00:13:04.500 --> 00:13:06.299
inevitable. Children are. And I think it's about

00:13:06.299 --> 00:13:09.139
I try and balance it with sort of all those times

00:13:09.139 --> 00:13:11.440
that they really enjoy. Also just doing other

00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:13.340
practical things. So, for example, after our

00:13:13.340 --> 00:13:16.440
big dragon sale on Saturday, my children always

00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.279
come and drop off some of the toys and the books

00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:22.169
to local community groups and charities. They

00:13:22.169 --> 00:13:24.830
absolutely love it. And we have lovely conversations

00:13:24.830 --> 00:13:27.690
on the way. And I think it's just about kind

00:13:27.690 --> 00:13:31.330
of peppering those moments across the year when

00:13:31.330 --> 00:13:33.830
you can. It's not about sort of. almost sort

00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:36.429
of making it too overwhelming for them because

00:13:36.429 --> 00:13:38.429
I think it can be really overwhelming it's just

00:13:38.429 --> 00:13:40.710
grasping those opportunities getting them engaged

00:13:40.710 --> 00:13:43.029
with things that they're already really into

00:13:43.029 --> 00:13:45.009
so for example my younger daughter is obsessed

00:13:45.009 --> 00:13:47.570
with animals so that's a good opportunity to

00:13:47.570 --> 00:13:49.009
think about whether there's an animal charity

00:13:49.009 --> 00:13:51.149
that she might like to support in some way so

00:13:51.149 --> 00:13:53.590
yeah it's finding an entry point I guess that

00:13:53.590 --> 00:13:55.509
works for them at their stage in life yeah it's

00:13:55.509 --> 00:13:57.809
a good idea what they like yes exactly yeah I

00:13:57.809 --> 00:14:00.460
love that I love that yeah I think I think that's

00:14:00.460 --> 00:14:02.139
a really interesting point because I think it

00:14:02.139 --> 00:14:05.019
can be quite overwhelming for children and particularly

00:14:05.019 --> 00:14:07.879
when they hear things about global issues. Totally.

00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:11.879
Frightening. sustainability and is the world

00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:13.779
going to explode? You know, their minds kind

00:14:13.779 --> 00:14:17.820
of go to catastrophizing. I mean, you're right

00:14:17.820 --> 00:14:20.460
to find that kind of entry point, but at what

00:14:20.460 --> 00:14:22.659
point do you think we should start talking to

00:14:22.659 --> 00:14:26.360
children about inequality and saying that, you

00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:28.899
know, some people aren't as fortunate as we are?

00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:31.159
I mean, how do we have those conversations with

00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:34.259
children right from the start? Well, personally,

00:14:34.340 --> 00:14:36.399
I think you have those conversations from the

00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.659
start and ongoing, but it's how you have them.

00:14:38.669 --> 00:14:40.690
those conversations and making sure they're appropriate

00:14:40.690 --> 00:14:44.129
for the age group that you're speaking with.

00:14:44.350 --> 00:14:46.870
I certainly have felt that strongly through my

00:14:46.870 --> 00:14:49.210
life, but I suppose since I've had children,

00:14:49.309 --> 00:14:51.450
life at refuge, when obviously, you know, there

00:14:51.450 --> 00:14:54.110
is the discussion about equality between men

00:14:54.110 --> 00:14:57.789
and women and how relationships should manifest

00:14:57.789 --> 00:15:00.370
and how behavior should manifest and treatment

00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:02.409
of each other. That has always been there from

00:15:02.409 --> 00:15:04.570
the get -go for me, but obviously I'm minded

00:15:04.570 --> 00:15:07.970
to... how I speak about a complex subject matter.

00:15:08.070 --> 00:15:10.610
And certainly my children have a solid understanding

00:15:10.610 --> 00:15:14.330
of violence against women. And then when it comes

00:15:14.330 --> 00:15:16.750
to children and the lens of dreams come true,

00:15:16.870 --> 00:15:19.750
just sharing those stories and giving examples

00:15:19.750 --> 00:15:22.309
and where appropriate, referencing kind of news

00:15:22.309 --> 00:15:24.990
stories or stories of friends and being able

00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:28.389
to have an honest but couched conversation that's

00:15:28.389 --> 00:15:30.389
appropriate for the age group or the level of

00:15:30.389 --> 00:15:32.549
understanding that the individual will have.

00:15:32.629 --> 00:15:35.559
But yeah, I think from the get go. I mean, what

00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.080
do you think, Rosalie? I agree. I think the more

00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:40.519
that you can sort of talk about it. And I think

00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:42.620
the other important thing is to sort of, I think

00:15:42.620 --> 00:15:44.580
sometimes as parents, we put a lot of pressure

00:15:44.580 --> 00:15:46.340
on ourselves and feel like we need to have all

00:15:46.340 --> 00:15:48.799
the answers. And actually, and it can stop us

00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:51.659
bringing up conversations. And actually, sometimes

00:15:51.659 --> 00:15:53.860
there's opportunities just to explore it together.

00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:55.740
You know, if you read something in the news or...

00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:57.740
For example, in the case of Dreams Come True,

00:15:57.799 --> 00:15:59.799
one of the things that I think you do so brilliantly,

00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:02.779
Lisa, is tell these stories from a very personal

00:16:02.779 --> 00:16:04.600
perspective. But that, of course, is going to

00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.700
bring up big questions about what are these children's

00:16:07.700 --> 00:16:10.460
challenges? And we don't need to feel that we

00:16:10.460 --> 00:16:13.000
know it. It can be that we just try and explore

00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.980
it together. I think that's a helpful way because

00:16:15.980 --> 00:16:17.860
I think it's otherwise. I just worry that this

00:16:17.860 --> 00:16:20.539
sort of this kind of global pressure that we

00:16:20.539 --> 00:16:23.039
all feel and this overwhelm can stop us actually

00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:26.100
having these conversations. Because we feel that

00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:27.980
we need the answers. I agree. And I think, you

00:16:27.980 --> 00:16:29.559
know, we always find with children, it's about

00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:31.960
clarity. It really is. They don't want nuance.

00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:34.100
They don't want us to kind of go around the edges.

00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:38.019
They just want clarity. And, you know, I remember

00:16:38.019 --> 00:16:42.600
another charity that supports children with grief,

00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:46.080
talking about that real importance to be clear

00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.100
and speak in language that there's going to be

00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:50.019
no doubt. Because, you know, they were saying

00:16:50.019 --> 00:16:53.120
about the using, you know, you've lost your parent.

00:16:53.690 --> 00:16:55.830
lost to a small child means that you know they're

00:16:55.830 --> 00:16:57.090
going to come back at some point you're going

00:16:57.090 --> 00:16:59.330
to find them you know so it is it is that that

00:16:59.330 --> 00:17:01.509
clarity and as you rightly say it's finding it's

00:17:01.509 --> 00:17:03.990
finding that that appropriate moment isn't it

00:17:03.990 --> 00:17:06.190
to start the conversation and as you rightly

00:17:06.190 --> 00:17:08.470
say something that they're interested in well

00:17:08.470 --> 00:17:10.109
i was just going to say with the work that we're

00:17:10.109 --> 00:17:12.170
doing we are supporting children with very high

00:17:12.170 --> 00:17:15.599
needs but As we say on the tin, dreams come true.

00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.339
There is the joy and the happiness and the magic

00:17:18.339 --> 00:17:19.680
that we're delivering. So there's something really

00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:21.440
positive about that. You know, get involved and

00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:22.819
do something really good for other children.

00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:25.259
Look at the joy that's being created and to feel

00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:28.579
really positive about that and valuable in terms

00:17:28.579 --> 00:17:30.799
of your contribution to somebody else's life

00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:33.819
and to have that good feeling that can come about,

00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:36.619
I hope, I think is a really important part of

00:17:36.619 --> 00:17:38.599
the story of dreams come true and the joy that

00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:40.900
we give. And I hope for the children who see.

00:17:41.349 --> 00:17:43.309
what their endeavours have been able to deliver

00:17:43.309 --> 00:17:45.630
for other children will give to them that really

00:17:45.630 --> 00:17:48.410
feeling of like, wow, you know, some great stuff's

00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:50.569
happened here. We can be really, we can high

00:17:50.569 --> 00:17:52.690
five this because it's just been so fantastic.

00:17:52.750 --> 00:17:55.390
Yes, and I think there's an immediate empathy

00:17:55.390 --> 00:17:57.630
between children, isn't there? They like, you

00:17:57.630 --> 00:17:59.589
know, when we're looking at what the dreams are

00:17:59.589 --> 00:18:02.299
of your children. Lisa, there's going to be huge

00:18:02.299 --> 00:18:05.259
parallels, whether it's a games console or a

00:18:05.259 --> 00:18:08.559
kind of dream family holiday. I think that's

00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:09.960
going to be one of the really exciting things

00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:11.799
about working with you guys across the year is

00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:14.500
that these children will be thinking about others,

00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:16.460
but from their own perspective of what they would

00:18:16.460 --> 00:18:18.420
also find really enjoyable. And they'll share

00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:20.740
that excitement with the children. I think that's

00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:23.240
true. But I think from an educational point of

00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:26.480
view, we talk a lot about children's well -being,

00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.519
our own children's well -being. And that concept

00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:31.609
of gratitude, we all know that gratitude is something

00:18:31.609 --> 00:18:34.369
that you know gives us a self of a feeling of

00:18:34.369 --> 00:18:37.309
calm and um it's something that gives you kind

00:18:37.309 --> 00:18:40.029
of a dopamine boost in the morning but equally

00:18:40.029 --> 00:18:42.289
the empathy and doing something for someone else

00:18:42.289 --> 00:18:45.109
also gives that feeling of kind of well -being

00:18:45.109 --> 00:18:47.430
so there is there is a really real importance

00:18:47.430 --> 00:18:50.509
i think in education for children to have a an

00:18:50.509 --> 00:18:52.230
environment that is going to give them that to

00:18:52.230 --> 00:18:55.569
a help them realize that what they have is is

00:18:55.569 --> 00:18:58.869
worthwhile and how how lucky they are But equally,

00:18:58.970 --> 00:19:01.329
that doing something for someone else gives you

00:19:01.329 --> 00:19:04.430
that sense of well -being and self -worth as

00:19:04.430 --> 00:19:05.890
well, that you have got something to give, you

00:19:05.890 --> 00:19:07.569
have got something to share. Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:08.009 --> 00:19:10.150
I also think... Which is all part of the education.

00:19:10.190 --> 00:19:12.269
Yeah, and I think actually, if you look at the

00:19:12.269 --> 00:19:13.990
school day now, and this wasn't, I don't think,

00:19:14.009 --> 00:19:15.369
the case certainly when I was at school, but

00:19:15.369 --> 00:19:17.690
I look at the lessons that our children sit through

00:19:17.690 --> 00:19:20.730
now and these kind of... Big or small topics

00:19:20.730 --> 00:19:23.369
that we're talking about appear in so many different

00:19:23.369 --> 00:19:25.210
subjects. They're part of geography. They're

00:19:25.210 --> 00:19:27.970
part of history. They're certainly part of CHE.

00:19:28.029 --> 00:19:30.690
So there's so many opportunities to have these

00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:33.029
conversations, to be discussing these kind of

00:19:33.029 --> 00:19:37.130
various issues through a different lens. And

00:19:37.130 --> 00:19:38.789
I think that's really helpful because I feel

00:19:38.789 --> 00:19:40.509
certainly when I was at school, I just don't

00:19:40.509 --> 00:19:42.730
think we talked about migration in geography.

00:19:42.890 --> 00:19:45.329
And certainly we didn't have anything like...

00:19:45.910 --> 00:19:48.509
CHE or religious studies certainly when I was

00:19:48.509 --> 00:19:50.470
at school was very much focused on kind of core

00:19:50.470 --> 00:19:52.990
religion as opposed to the much wider sort of

00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:55.210
ethical conversations that we're having with

00:19:55.210 --> 00:19:57.329
our children now and one thing that I always

00:19:57.329 --> 00:20:00.609
come back to in these situations is how can you

00:20:00.609 --> 00:20:03.890
teach empathy I don't know what you think Lisa

00:20:03.890 --> 00:20:08.549
can you teach a child to be empathetic uh I guess

00:20:08.549 --> 00:20:11.369
I think you can learn You can learn that by seeing

00:20:11.369 --> 00:20:14.210
it, by living it, by having that experience ongoing.

00:20:14.549 --> 00:20:16.730
I mean, you thread that through your school in

00:20:16.730 --> 00:20:18.750
every channel it would have in any opportunity.

00:20:19.089 --> 00:20:22.049
And I think that will happen gradually and naturally

00:20:22.049 --> 00:20:24.730
without being like spoon fed. You know, this

00:20:24.730 --> 00:20:27.029
is what empathy is and this is what is when this

00:20:27.029 --> 00:20:28.950
is how we will respond in such a circumstance.

00:20:29.210 --> 00:20:31.690
It'll just be like learned behavior and evidenced

00:20:31.690 --> 00:20:34.529
and then kind of, I guess, mirrored and lived

00:20:34.529 --> 00:20:36.990
through that way. So, yes, I do. But I think

00:20:36.990 --> 00:20:40.119
it has to be an opportunity to learn. on an ongoing

00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:42.980
basis in as many different ways as possible to

00:20:42.980 --> 00:20:45.200
achieve that, which sounds as though you're doing

00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:47.220
that kind of on a daily or weekly basis. Yeah,

00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:49.099
because I think it can be a challenge because

00:20:49.099 --> 00:20:52.349
I think... Some children come from a highly competitive

00:20:52.349 --> 00:20:56.130
background, a background where anything that

00:20:56.130 --> 00:21:00.130
they've wanted, they've got. And I think it's

00:21:00.130 --> 00:21:03.049
so important to have it ingrained in, not only

00:21:03.049 --> 00:21:05.309
just in our wider community, but in the actual

00:21:05.309 --> 00:21:08.869
curriculum and ensuring that we are giving those

00:21:08.869 --> 00:21:10.769
children a conversation, to be able to have the

00:21:10.769 --> 00:21:13.710
conversation about what it looks like to be empathetic.

00:21:13.730 --> 00:21:17.849
And it's a strength to be empathetic, not a weakness

00:21:17.849 --> 00:21:20.259
or a softness. It's actually a real strength.

00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:22.299
Yeah, but I'm sure as leaders in your school,

00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.880
you'll be all demonstrating that. And as great

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.619
role models, that will be identified and seen

00:21:27.619 --> 00:21:29.240
by the children and then mirrored. And if it

00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:31.599
is celebrated and seen as a positive and something

00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:34.839
to strive towards, then I would hope and I can

00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:37.539
only imagine that that will have that impact.

00:21:37.859 --> 00:21:39.940
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, and Rosalie will

00:21:39.940 --> 00:21:42.220
have heard me say this before, but we had a great

00:21:42.220 --> 00:21:44.720
social entrepreneur came and talked to the children.

00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.630
And he was showing that actually... This can

00:21:47.630 --> 00:21:51.809
be a career as well. And I think, you know, a

00:21:51.809 --> 00:21:54.470
part of our responsibility as an educational

00:21:54.470 --> 00:21:56.690
establishment is to give the children the tools

00:21:56.690 --> 00:21:59.210
with which they can go out and work in these

00:21:59.210 --> 00:22:02.009
sectors. They can make a difference. And as you

00:22:02.009 --> 00:22:05.049
rightly said earlier on, Rosalie, that as a society.

00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:08.500
We need to have that mind shift change again.

00:22:08.539 --> 00:22:10.799
It's not just going out and making money, but

00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.079
to be a really healthy, global community. We've

00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.339
got to have this purpose in our lives to make

00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:19.259
it a better place. Absolutely. And I was going

00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:21.700
to say, I think it also comes down to the way

00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:24.599
that we are encouraging children to think. And

00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:27.660
I know that that's something that the social

00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:29.799
entrepreneur that Emma just mentioned spoke a

00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:31.619
lot about, which is actually encouraging our

00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:34.079
children, not just to kind of necessarily...

00:22:34.639 --> 00:22:36.599
to understand these global issues, but also to

00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.420
question why they're happening, question why

00:22:39.420 --> 00:22:41.920
there is this big challenges in society, because

00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.259
therein lies the bright idea that we'll make

00:22:45.259 --> 00:22:47.140
a huge change. You need to go right back to the

00:22:47.140 --> 00:22:49.079
cause and really question there. And I think

00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:51.759
that's where I think certainly in a school where

00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.519
we're working with younger children, there's

00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.240
a real opportunity to sort of embed that way

00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.240
of thinking from quite a young age. So you don't

00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.140
just accept things and look for solutions. You

00:23:00.140 --> 00:23:03.359
also question. why they happen and and look at

00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:05.599
it from the very beginning I was going to say

00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:07.819
I had heard that when you mentioned that very

00:23:07.819 --> 00:23:10.039
same point at the beginning of our of our chat

00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:11.940
and I thought yeah Rosalie's right it's not just

00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:14.180
about the giving and the money it's it's instilling

00:23:14.180 --> 00:23:16.720
in the young people that actually there's learning

00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:19.019
and contributions they can make through their

00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:21.960
careers or kind of inventions or new or charitable

00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:24.680
and social purpose that they as individuals through

00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.079
their professional lives and education can bring

00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:29.859
to the better good and I really listened to that

00:23:29.859 --> 00:23:31.809
which is the point that Emma's so rightly brought

00:23:31.809 --> 00:23:34.710
up now again to look at because what a gift to

00:23:34.710 --> 00:23:36.329
give and that's so true and you can do it in

00:23:36.329 --> 00:23:39.490
many more ways than just the hard cash. Yeah,

00:23:39.589 --> 00:23:42.140
because some people find it difficult. Some people

00:23:42.140 --> 00:23:44.759
find it difficult to go and ask for money or

00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.460
do something and ask friends to support. And

00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:50.539
I guess it's also telling children that if that's

00:23:50.539 --> 00:23:52.559
not what you feel comfortable with, well, there

00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:54.579
are other ways exactly that you could use your

00:23:54.579 --> 00:23:57.900
time and resources to think of things. You don't

00:23:57.900 --> 00:24:00.240
have to always be the person out there who's

00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.500
asking for money because there are some people

00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:03.940
who are brilliant at that and others who just

00:24:03.940 --> 00:24:07.440
feel much more awkward about that. I guess role

00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.019
modelling is incredibly important for this. think

00:24:11.019 --> 00:24:14.200
children seeing adults who are doing this? I

00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:17.259
mean, if you are a parent and suddenly realizing,

00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:19.220
oh my goodness, actually, I haven't even thought

00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:21.039
about talking to my child about this, and I'm

00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:23.220
not sure we're doing enough. I mean, where can

00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:28.039
an adult start? And what's the sort of things

00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:30.460
they could start doing in order to model this

00:24:30.460 --> 00:24:33.880
for a child? Well, for me personally, as a mum,

00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:36.619
I have lots of different ways of kind of looking

00:24:36.619 --> 00:24:39.400
at support from coming to events and clapping

00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:42.299
people on to helping me with a mailing that I

00:24:42.299 --> 00:24:44.140
took on board a couple of years back and, you

00:24:44.140 --> 00:24:46.579
know, putting information in envelopes. But more

00:24:46.579 --> 00:24:48.259
than that, sitting down, reading it, thinking

00:24:48.259 --> 00:24:50.019
like, why are we doing this? What is this all

00:24:50.019 --> 00:24:51.980
about? Who is this kind of contributing towards?

00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:55.079
And, you know, doing the actions. thinking about

00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:57.680
why we're doing the actions and having that kind

00:24:57.680 --> 00:24:59.940
of discussion and thinking about that and having,

00:25:00.059 --> 00:25:01.799
I think both, I can't remember which of you,

00:25:01.819 --> 00:25:03.380
maybe Rosalie, you said having, you know, touch

00:25:03.380 --> 00:25:05.259
points throughout the year. So it's not just

00:25:05.259 --> 00:25:06.859
a one moment. So it's kind of just integrated

00:25:06.859 --> 00:25:09.720
into life and discussions. And I think that's

00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:12.619
the way I've kind of taken my path with my children

00:25:12.619 --> 00:25:15.500
and been a regular donator to a water aid and

00:25:15.500 --> 00:25:17.680
have had the literature come through and look

00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:19.759
at kind of giving through the lens of our home

00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:23.000
country, but the wider world. But again, to try

00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.279
and avoid the frightening, catastrophizing kind

00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:27.900
of environmental concerns that are rightly there.

00:25:27.980 --> 00:25:30.279
But for the eyes of the child to think about

00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:31.880
how you can do something really good for someone

00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:33.940
else. And the literature that is shared is very

00:25:33.940 --> 00:25:37.019
helpful to that effect and shares the lives of,

00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:38.759
you know, children in other countries and what

00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:40.900
we can, what we're doing to help and support.

00:25:40.980 --> 00:25:43.500
So lots of different touch points and ways, but

00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:45.720
to find the right balance. I've worked in charity

00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.539
the last 20 odd years and I don't want to be.

00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:51.380
forcing my children. I want them to come to the

00:25:51.380 --> 00:25:53.980
table also and do so. And the way I've done that

00:25:53.980 --> 00:25:56.660
is try and make it fun and informative. And I

00:25:56.660 --> 00:25:58.819
think one thing that I know does work well is

00:25:58.819 --> 00:26:00.700
when the adults, when it comes to birthdays and

00:26:00.700 --> 00:26:03.740
things saying, actually, either I'd love you

00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:06.099
rather than giving me a present, I'd rather we

00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:08.519
give some money to charity. But equally, rather

00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:11.160
than having like a treat for a birthday, actually,

00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:13.140
let's go and do something together that's going

00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:16.859
to support. somebody else. And it's kind of modelling

00:26:16.859 --> 00:26:19.460
for them the way in which they might think about

00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:21.519
doing things in a slightly different way. Yeah,

00:26:21.579 --> 00:26:23.500
I totally agree. You know, you can plan some

00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:26.000
really lovely things. I mean, make these family

00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.980
traditions, if it's the sort of annual charity

00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:31.619
walk together or on Monday after the dragon sale

00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:33.599
where we all get in the minibus and drive off.

00:26:33.660 --> 00:26:36.420
I think celebrate those moments together, make

00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:38.279
them into little traditions because children

00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:41.599
love that. And the other thing I think is key

00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:45.539
is To sort of sit down again, particularly in

00:26:45.539 --> 00:26:47.519
these really kind of complex and quite overwhelming

00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:49.940
times, sit down as a family and Christmas is

00:26:49.940 --> 00:26:52.480
a perfect time to do it and think about what

00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:55.059
are our values? What are our moral values? What's

00:26:55.059 --> 00:26:56.460
important to us? The children are encouraged

00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:58.279
to do it all the time. We're always talking to

00:26:58.279 --> 00:27:00.839
them about sort of kindness and respecting each

00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.759
other, but not just about sort of these bigger

00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:07.470
kind of more. challenging global issues but just

00:27:07.470 --> 00:27:09.890
what are what are our values as a family and

00:27:09.890 --> 00:27:12.410
what can we do around those that will help to

00:27:12.410 --> 00:27:14.589
kind of strengthen those and demonstrate those

00:27:14.589 --> 00:27:17.210
and I know for me personally that's something

00:27:17.210 --> 00:27:19.230
I feel that this Christmas I want us to sort

00:27:19.230 --> 00:27:21.190
of be spending a bit more time on because the

00:27:21.190 --> 00:27:23.690
year runs away with you and these holidays and

00:27:23.690 --> 00:27:25.430
this precious time together is a real opportunity

00:27:25.430 --> 00:27:28.170
to suddenly sit down and sort of re -establish

00:27:28.170 --> 00:27:30.920
some of those. Totally. And I think you're quite

00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:33.279
right. And I think this, when people are listening

00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:35.900
to this, it may be in January or February, but

00:27:35.900 --> 00:27:38.000
I think that's also a time when you're reflecting

00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.700
on Christmas and the materialism. And actually,

00:27:41.740 --> 00:27:43.799
is that something that we want to keep going

00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:46.660
with our children and maybe looking at it? Because

00:27:46.660 --> 00:27:48.500
you're right. I mean, actually, you know, the

00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:51.700
present giving, it's over in a flash. The memories

00:27:51.700 --> 00:27:54.880
they have are actually about the time and the

00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:57.319
being together and the precious times that they

00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:58.710
spend and actually getting... the children to

00:27:58.710 --> 00:28:01.529
reflect on that is, again, quite a good starting

00:28:01.529 --> 00:28:03.750
point to saying, actually, what do we value?

00:28:03.849 --> 00:28:06.529
What is Christmas about? It is about sharing

00:28:06.529 --> 00:28:11.309
food, sharing our time with others, whether it's

00:28:11.309 --> 00:28:13.529
family members or inviting people who haven't

00:28:13.529 --> 00:28:15.970
got anywhere else to go at Christmas. It's quite

00:28:15.970 --> 00:28:18.089
a good time to be having these kind of reflective

00:28:18.089 --> 00:28:21.430
conversations. So just thinking about this idea

00:28:21.430 --> 00:28:24.589
of kind of like the successful life, just finding

00:28:24.589 --> 00:28:27.539
a quote here, which says, A successful life isn't

00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:31.460
a happy one and it's an extraordinary one, which

00:28:31.460 --> 00:28:34.480
I think is a really interesting, different way

00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:36.200
of looking at life. It doesn't mean that you're

00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:38.680
going to be happy all of the time, that actually

00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:41.140
there are going to be bumps in the road, which

00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:43.079
makes every life extraordinary. And it's the

00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:44.859
way in which you deal with it. And I guess that's

00:28:44.859 --> 00:28:46.819
very true for the people that you support with

00:28:46.819 --> 00:28:49.740
your charity, Lisa. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:53.059
the stories are. In equal measure, heartbreaking

00:28:53.059 --> 00:28:56.920
and deeply inspiring. I mean, what amazing children

00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.539
to, you know, have had such a vast array of different

00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:03.900
experiences and to then kind of, you know, come

00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:05.980
through some of that kind of physical challenge

00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:09.000
to then live their lives and turn to the charity

00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:11.539
because they are living in poverty and they have

00:29:11.539 --> 00:29:15.240
few kind of like resources to access. And to,

00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:17.460
through the support of the charity, bring them

00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:20.039
that joy, whether it's special tech equipment

00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:23.160
that the child might need or an amazing experience

00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:27.500
or some real memory creating moments, you know,

00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:30.279
makeovers for children in the home or, you know,

00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:31.980
in the house or in the garden, a whole array

00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:33.660
of different dreams and different things that

00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:36.079
a child might want. But to, and to bring that

00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.859
to a child who has experienced so much kind of

00:29:38.859 --> 00:29:41.980
physical challenge is, yeah, it's a real joy

00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:45.059
to be able to do. And I do think, Rosalie, you're

00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:48.380
right in the sense that just imagine before we

00:29:48.380 --> 00:29:50.059
say that it might just be interesting to how

00:29:50.059 --> 00:29:53.059
how do we frame our charitable giving at school?

00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:56.680
So it's an open application process. We have

00:29:56.680 --> 00:29:58.720
three charities a year. One is a local charity,

00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:00.740
one is a national or international charity, and

00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:04.640
one is an environmental charity. And we ask charities

00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:08.019
from all over, providing they have a UK registered

00:30:08.019 --> 00:30:10.539
charity number, to apply. It's open to everyone.

00:30:10.660 --> 00:30:13.519
The one premise is that the charities must in

00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:16.140
some way support children and families. We then

00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:18.140
get a whole stream of applicants, which is great,

00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:20.220
and it's been so rewarding to see year on year

00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:24.000
more and more applications. coming in. And, you

00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.859
know, we were delighted when Peter from Dreams

00:30:25.859 --> 00:30:28.039
Come True wrote to us out of the blue. We've

00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:29.819
not had a contact with the charity before, but

00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:31.299
it's great because it means that hopefully the

00:30:31.299 --> 00:30:34.619
opportunities further getting out further. And

00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:37.859
then our A Block or our year eight social impact

00:30:37.859 --> 00:30:41.009
ambassadors work with. the social impact team

00:30:41.009 --> 00:30:44.009
to sort of streamline and shortlist some charities.

00:30:44.130 --> 00:30:45.910
And then we then put it out to the children and

00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:48.430
they vote for the charities really that they,

00:30:48.589 --> 00:30:51.890
you know, we have a series of presentations on

00:30:51.890 --> 00:30:53.289
behalf, you know, a couple of slides each on

00:30:53.289 --> 00:30:55.289
each charity and they vote for the ones that

00:30:55.289 --> 00:30:58.549
really kind of engage them the most and that

00:30:58.549 --> 00:31:00.049
really seem to hit home with them. And it's so

00:31:00.049 --> 00:31:03.069
interesting to see year on year the different

00:31:03.069 --> 00:31:06.980
organisations that they choose. And then we're

00:31:06.980 --> 00:31:09.480
so fortunate in that we have an opportunity to

00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:11.279
work in partnership with these amazing organisations

00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.140
and they generously come in and give assemblies

00:31:14.140 --> 00:31:16.579
to the children and spectrum talks in the evening.

00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:19.980
I think the most important thing is that it's

00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:22.799
not just they vote for a charity, they do a fundraiser

00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.420
and that's it. For us, it really is about working

00:31:25.420 --> 00:31:28.220
with the charity across the year and any opportunity

00:31:28.220 --> 00:31:31.519
to bring them in or keep talking about the projects

00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:35.269
that they're working on. Yeah. And I think that

00:31:35.269 --> 00:31:37.569
when it comes to actually the children being

00:31:37.569 --> 00:31:39.190
engaged with charities, it's because they've

00:31:39.190 --> 00:31:40.910
been involved in choosing them, I guess, which

00:31:40.910 --> 00:31:43.769
again is back to that point that if they can

00:31:43.769 --> 00:31:47.170
empathise with who they're raising money from,

00:31:47.230 --> 00:31:49.710
that's really key. But I think the other element

00:31:49.710 --> 00:31:53.390
that we... We do have an event at our school

00:31:53.390 --> 00:31:56.390
which really focuses the children on creating

00:31:56.390 --> 00:32:00.109
some way of making money within two hours at

00:32:00.109 --> 00:32:03.210
the end of this term. But then also thinking

00:32:03.210 --> 00:32:05.470
about where they want that money to go. And again,

00:32:05.509 --> 00:32:07.980
it's... them understanding it's their effort

00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.220
that raises the money and then they decide where

00:32:10.220 --> 00:32:12.880
to go and it's giving them that experience of

00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:15.160
that that cycle and that philanthropic cycle

00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:17.680
and which works so well doesn't it rosalie absolutely

00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:19.420
and i think it's also something they discuss

00:32:19.420 --> 00:32:21.799
between themselves i mean we all know how influenced

00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.480
children's are by each other and this kind of

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:27.680
voting process is absolutely not a sort of eyes

00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.119
closed hands up type vote you know we we want

00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:31.720
the children to talk about it and talk about

00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:34.059
it between themselves which which organizations

00:32:35.049 --> 00:32:37.089
they're interested in and why they might want

00:32:37.089 --> 00:32:40.190
to support them. And so I think it's just a really

00:32:40.190 --> 00:32:42.490
helpful opportunity for us, I think, to be able

00:32:42.490 --> 00:32:45.309
to get the children talking together and with

00:32:45.309 --> 00:32:47.970
their teachers about why they're going to choose

00:32:47.970 --> 00:32:50.470
certain charities. And it's amazing to see the

00:32:50.470 --> 00:32:52.130
results because you never, when they come in,

00:32:52.190 --> 00:32:54.549
we're never quite sure which direction it's going

00:32:54.549 --> 00:32:58.089
to go in. Yeah, totally. Lisa, I'm interested

00:32:58.089 --> 00:33:01.009
in what are the current challenges in the charity

00:33:01.009 --> 00:33:05.480
sector that you're facing? It's going to sound

00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:08.319
really obvious and it's not a, you know, it is

00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:10.720
just the truth. It is, it is always the money.

00:33:10.779 --> 00:33:13.420
It is the, it is the raising the funds. It is

00:33:13.420 --> 00:33:15.019
bringing in the funds and the opportunities.

00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:18.980
But that said, I mean, there have been many,

00:33:19.059 --> 00:33:22.000
many stories of charities facing great challenge

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.829
this year and it's not surprising. But what we

00:33:24.829 --> 00:33:26.950
have done a great job outside is we were very

00:33:26.950 --> 00:33:30.529
lucky to have a pro bono agency help us with

00:33:30.529 --> 00:33:32.730
a big rebrand. We've got a new logo and we've

00:33:32.730 --> 00:33:34.869
got our little dream helpers and the colors that

00:33:34.869 --> 00:33:37.250
sit within our website that has done a great

00:33:37.250 --> 00:33:40.569
job of kind of reinvigorating, I think, our brand

00:33:40.569 --> 00:33:42.529
and really speaks to the joy and the happiness

00:33:42.529 --> 00:33:44.990
and kind of all the magic making that we do at

00:33:44.990 --> 00:33:48.490
the charity. And we've worked hard to grow our

00:33:48.490 --> 00:33:51.549
social media platforms and through that reached

00:33:51.549 --> 00:33:53.990
a whole new audience of customers. kind of individuals

00:33:53.990 --> 00:33:57.630
and corporates wanting to support us. Not a vast

00:33:57.630 --> 00:34:00.089
number, but it's growing. And so we have seen

00:34:00.089 --> 00:34:02.789
kind of growth in that arena of fundraising.

00:34:03.109 --> 00:34:06.099
I mean, to... to have been voted by you to be

00:34:06.099 --> 00:34:09.460
the charity of the year for kind of your UK tranche

00:34:09.460 --> 00:34:12.659
of initiatives is wonderful. I mean, how great.

00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:15.039
And I love that the kids voted for us. It means

00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:17.139
much to us to have, you know, that peer -to -peer,

00:34:17.139 --> 00:34:19.380
child -to -child kind of understanding, wanting

00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:22.000
to support others. I think what better model

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:26.019
could be in place? So funding really is the big

00:34:26.019 --> 00:34:28.750
issue of the moment. And, you know, we have cyber

00:34:28.750 --> 00:34:31.489
considerations also, you know, those sorts of

00:34:31.489 --> 00:34:33.929
risks are really kind of real and prevalent,

00:34:33.989 --> 00:34:35.949
especially when you're working with children

00:34:35.949 --> 00:34:37.989
and like yourselves, kind of, you know, data

00:34:37.989 --> 00:34:41.309
matters to be very thoughtful towards. And we've,

00:34:41.309 --> 00:34:43.800
again, got some good. Measures in place for that.

00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:45.639
But they're kind of like the two big things at

00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:47.900
the moment from the sector wide considerations.

00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:50.980
But in both areas, we're, you know, being thoughtful

00:34:50.980 --> 00:34:53.139
towards that. And I think we're in a good place.

00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:55.019
Yeah. It's interesting you mentioned about the

00:34:55.019 --> 00:34:56.800
social media aspect because, you know, a lot

00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:59.639
of children are coming through and want to be

00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:02.539
in the media or want to have some, you know,

00:35:02.539 --> 00:35:04.599
career working in that sort of creative space.

00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.039
And to actually remember that charities need

00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:08.880
all of that as well. It's not, you know, and

00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:10.920
this comes back to this idea that actually the

00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.719
career doesn't necessarily need. to be in the

00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.599
actual fundraising. It can be in terms of the

00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.579
messaging and the creativity associated with

00:35:18.579 --> 00:35:21.000
it. So the wonderful thing about children is

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:24.699
they're very idealistic and obviously in them

00:35:24.699 --> 00:35:28.260
wanting to help everybody. How do we talk to

00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:29.760
children when they say, well, why aren't we giving

00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.599
more money away? Or why aren't we taking somebody

00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:36.300
in who's homeless? How can we frame that sort

00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:38.480
of conversation? Lisa, do you have any thoughts

00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.150
on that? Well, I mean, yes, I guess there's that

00:35:42.150 --> 00:35:44.329
kind of like idealistic kind of approach that

00:35:44.329 --> 00:35:47.110
children may have that is out of reach and impossible

00:35:47.110 --> 00:35:49.289
to do. But I think it's about framing it in the,

00:35:49.349 --> 00:35:51.150
you know, what you can do, what you are doing

00:35:51.150 --> 00:35:52.849
and to ensure that they know the contribution

00:35:52.849 --> 00:35:55.250
that they're making. And that, of course, you

00:35:55.250 --> 00:35:57.650
know, there are many people to offer support

00:35:57.650 --> 00:36:00.329
and charities to do so. And as long as kind of

00:36:00.329 --> 00:36:02.250
we're doing, you know, a part of that in our

00:36:02.250 --> 00:36:05.230
own kind of micro world, there are others who

00:36:05.230 --> 00:36:06.929
are providing support in a bigger way. And just

00:36:06.929 --> 00:36:08.869
to ensure that they don't maybe have the weight

00:36:08.869 --> 00:36:10.929
of their world on the shoulders. They know it's

00:36:10.929 --> 00:36:13.210
not just on them. It's a community, collective,

00:36:13.489 --> 00:36:16.170
shared responsibility. And that life is about

00:36:16.170 --> 00:36:18.409
balance. I mean, that is something that I try.

00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:20.900
to instill it for myself not always successfully

00:36:20.900 --> 00:36:23.679
but um you know to share that too you know there

00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:25.719
is a balance to everything and to do too much

00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:27.840
of one thing to a detriment of another isn't

00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:29.480
going to work and we need to make sure that we

00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.199
have got space to you know live our lives do

00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:34.659
the fun stuff do the charity and the community

00:36:34.659 --> 00:36:36.900
and care for others be able to be successful

00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:39.039
at education you can't do everything and all

00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:41.079
of it you have to take a balanced approach and

00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:43.380
and we share it with others and as you're doing

00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:45.940
at dragons you're taking a community approach

00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:48.320
to it and together collectively a greater good

00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:50.780
can come about so I think it's imparting those

00:36:50.780 --> 00:36:53.119
messages but to champion and love the fact that

00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:55.739
they want to try yeah that would be I mean what's

00:36:55.739 --> 00:36:58.380
not to love about that I agree although and the

00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:01.289
other element is is not to kind of give them

00:37:01.289 --> 00:37:03.570
a sense of guilt about the fact that they are

00:37:03.570 --> 00:37:06.269
living a very comfortable life. I think that's

00:37:06.269 --> 00:37:07.989
the conversation. I mean, Rosie, I don't know

00:37:07.989 --> 00:37:09.590
whether you would agree, because obviously, you

00:37:09.590 --> 00:37:11.869
know, we don't want them to feel guilty about

00:37:11.869 --> 00:37:14.389
everything they have either. No, exactly. And,

00:37:14.409 --> 00:37:16.409
you know, that would be the worst thing to happen.

00:37:16.489 --> 00:37:18.190
I think it's really important, as I think your

00:37:18.190 --> 00:37:20.630
point, Lisa, is so good. Life is about balance.

00:37:21.010 --> 00:37:23.690
Be grateful for what you've got. Enjoy these

00:37:23.690 --> 00:37:26.429
opportunities you have, but use these opportunities

00:37:26.429 --> 00:37:29.940
for greater good as and when you can. think about

00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:32.599
what you do enjoy and try thinking about how

00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:34.340
can you do more of that to help other people.

00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:37.000
But I think the point about sort of looking kind

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.260
of on your doorstep is key. And I always say

00:37:39.260 --> 00:37:42.059
to my children, if everyone just cared about

00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:44.199
the sort of people around us and started there,

00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.019
if we were all doing that, actually the reach

00:37:47.019 --> 00:37:49.880
would be huge. You know, it's not about sort

00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:52.280
of helping everyone all at once. Sometimes you

00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:54.260
just have to think, what's tangible for me now?

00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:57.460
What can I do locally or that sort of aligns

00:37:57.460 --> 00:38:00.739
with what I really enjoy? animals running whatever

00:38:00.739 --> 00:38:04.099
it might be and see it as just a an exciting

00:38:04.099 --> 00:38:06.719
opportunity and a you know we're fortunate to

00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:08.840
be able to do it but enjoy those moments a lot

00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:10.780
of these children are so empathetic and it's

00:38:10.780 --> 00:38:12.639
something I'm always aware of when we do these

00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.420
assemblies and when we're doing things like the

00:38:15.420 --> 00:38:17.360
form votes you know I'm putting together those

00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:20.719
slides is some children find this really really

00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:23.380
upsetting you know kids are so empathetic and

00:38:23.380 --> 00:38:26.019
so I think it's also how you talk about it because

00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:28.659
We don't want to overwhelm children. That's not

00:38:28.659 --> 00:38:30.340
what it's about. We want to have these conversations,

00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:32.920
but you know your child and you know how capable

00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:34.820
they are of understanding how much they can,

00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:36.980
you know, they can take. We do have a responsibility

00:38:36.980 --> 00:38:39.559
to obviously sort of present it to them in an

00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:41.320
age appropriate and a child appropriate way,

00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:45.300
depending on who they are. And drawing some threads

00:38:45.300 --> 00:38:50.300
together. Who have been big influences to you?

00:38:50.380 --> 00:38:51.679
I mean, we've talked about our own childhood,

00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:53.940
probably charity and philanthropy wasn't spoken

00:38:53.940 --> 00:38:56.099
about as much. But were there people in your

00:38:56.099 --> 00:38:59.980
life that have really inspired you to go on this

00:38:59.980 --> 00:39:01.559
journey, whether it was a teacher or someone

00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:04.739
later in life? Lisa, who was it for you? I think

00:39:04.739 --> 00:39:06.840
in my early day, maybe not kind of from the philanthropy

00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:09.960
side, but just kind of in school and to, you

00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:12.750
know, to build towards, you know. as strong a

00:39:12.750 --> 00:39:14.849
good an education as you could get and to have

00:39:14.849 --> 00:39:17.230
fun while doing it certainly one of my teachers

00:39:17.230 --> 00:39:20.550
when I was um at a school down in Sussex uh Mrs

00:39:20.550 --> 00:39:22.309
Beale I remember her very fondly it was only

00:39:22.309 --> 00:39:25.369
10 years of age but she was very inspiring and

00:39:25.369 --> 00:39:27.829
actually very supportive just as a person to

00:39:27.829 --> 00:39:29.989
kind of other personal matters that were going

00:39:29.989 --> 00:39:33.130
on for me then at that stage and you know I remember

00:39:33.130 --> 00:39:36.050
her very very much and the support that she gave

00:39:36.050 --> 00:39:38.110
and how lovely to be able to reflect on that

00:39:38.619 --> 00:39:40.519
haven't done that for a while which is a nice

00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:43.940
moment to have and then really I suppose in my

00:39:43.940 --> 00:39:46.780
career my boss that I had when I joined Refuge

00:39:46.780 --> 00:39:49.639
and my charity career started she was a big influence

00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:52.079
on my life and a kind of a real big change maker

00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:54.760
in helping me to you know think about my social

00:39:54.760 --> 00:39:57.500
values and my politics also which I think has

00:39:57.500 --> 00:40:00.400
made me a better person and then I suppose the

00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:02.219
only other big influence in my life really is

00:40:02.219 --> 00:40:04.619
probably my youngest son with his kind of additional

00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:07.659
needs and his autism and making me view life.

00:40:08.339 --> 00:40:10.360
differently to your point emmy you know what

00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:12.719
and the question you asked earlier about what

00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:15.280
does a successful life look like and those kind

00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:18.079
of moments of decision making and actually that's

00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:21.519
he has really helped me to reframe that my pathway

00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:23.480
in life has been through the sausage factory

00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:26.119
you know it yes it's kind of you know just how

00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:28.260
it has been and was for me but for him it's very

00:40:28.260 --> 00:40:30.099
different and i look at it through the lens of

00:40:30.510 --> 00:40:32.489
Where is the happiness? Where is the kindness?

00:40:32.730 --> 00:40:35.469
And actually, there is joy to be had for him

00:40:35.469 --> 00:40:37.769
as a child in taking a different pathway. And

00:40:37.769 --> 00:40:39.550
I think it's about that, looking at everyone

00:40:39.550 --> 00:40:42.329
as an individual. And we could pull in so many

00:40:42.329 --> 00:40:44.610
different points of our conversation to that

00:40:44.610 --> 00:40:47.869
end, where Rosalie has said, education doesn't

00:40:47.869 --> 00:40:49.610
need to be all about gunning for the money and

00:40:49.610 --> 00:40:52.289
making it a big, very successful city career.

00:40:52.369 --> 00:40:54.630
Actually, it could be about building something

00:40:54.630 --> 00:40:57.039
fantastic for the bigger and better good. And,

00:40:57.099 --> 00:40:59.460
you know, that it's success through everybody's

00:40:59.460 --> 00:41:01.860
channel and having that perspective that is about

00:41:01.860 --> 00:41:04.820
being an individual and possibly not the sausage

00:41:04.820 --> 00:41:07.280
factory approach that four decades ago when I

00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.000
was going through my education, you know, was

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.400
the pathway. So, you know, really celebrate that,

00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:14.360
looking at everything from a much more individual

00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:17.199
perspective. It's not enough, even in today's

00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:19.099
world. I'm sure, you know, you know that in the

00:41:19.099 --> 00:41:21.139
educational world, it's still a model, but it's

00:41:21.139 --> 00:41:23.980
way better than before. And yeah, I think that

00:41:23.980 --> 00:41:26.579
that's, you know, certainly he's one of the,

00:41:26.889 --> 00:41:29.550
big influencing factors in my life and has fundamentally

00:41:29.550 --> 00:41:33.150
changed me and my thinking. That's really interesting.

00:41:33.210 --> 00:41:36.289
It's also just kind of touching on that entrepreneurial

00:41:36.289 --> 00:41:39.610
spirit, you know, that actually probably in our

00:41:39.610 --> 00:41:42.409
generations, we've come through a sort of a corporate

00:41:42.409 --> 00:41:45.670
framework of kind of the working world. But I

00:41:45.670 --> 00:41:48.789
think we are moving much more towards that entrepreneurial.

00:41:49.959 --> 00:41:51.940
choosing what you want to do, how you want to

00:41:51.940 --> 00:41:55.380
do it and having the space and society allowing

00:41:55.380 --> 00:41:59.380
you to work individually and follow your pathway.

00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:02.139
You're nodding there, Rosie. Yeah, I was going

00:42:02.139 --> 00:42:04.920
to say, I feel exactly the same. I think we're

00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.139
so fortunate that our children and my children

00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:09.159
are being, they're growing up in an environment

00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:12.300
where there's no blueprint. You can really, you

00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:14.260
know, we are giving them the tools to do and

00:42:14.260 --> 00:42:17.820
be anything they want to be. And, you know, in

00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:20.250
terms of my sort of, Well, I guess my influences

00:42:20.250 --> 00:42:22.190
at the moment seem to be day to day when I'm

00:42:22.190 --> 00:42:24.289
engaging with these children. And one of the

00:42:24.289 --> 00:42:28.769
things that really strikes me is what great advocates

00:42:28.769 --> 00:42:31.329
these children are for what they believe in.

00:42:31.409 --> 00:42:33.329
And I think that's something that, Lisa, you

00:42:33.329 --> 00:42:35.510
do brilliantly through your storytelling within

00:42:35.510 --> 00:42:37.869
Dreams Come True. But our children, you know,

00:42:37.889 --> 00:42:39.949
our children are so brave. They stand up for

00:42:39.949 --> 00:42:42.429
what they believe in, whether that's in the playground

00:42:42.429 --> 00:42:45.210
or whether that's on a much kind of bigger scale.

00:42:45.210 --> 00:42:48.139
And so I think. For me, that's something that

00:42:48.139 --> 00:42:50.539
just influences me all the time. These children,

00:42:50.619 --> 00:42:52.840
despite having, you know, they're juggling so

00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:54.800
much, the pressure of school, they're juggling

00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:56.940
friendships, they're trying to keep their families

00:42:56.940 --> 00:42:58.820
happy, they're holding it all together, and yet

00:42:58.820 --> 00:43:01.920
still they will think about others and come up

00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:04.480
with exciting ideas and take so much joy in it.

00:43:04.539 --> 00:43:06.889
You know, they love... coming together for a

00:43:06.889 --> 00:43:09.650
colour run or whatever it might be, or just these

00:43:09.650 --> 00:43:12.170
children that stand up in assembly. I remember

00:43:12.170 --> 00:43:14.809
it so clearly last year, two of our year eights

00:43:14.809 --> 00:43:16.829
stood up and made an argument for why we should

00:43:16.829 --> 00:43:19.170
turn the heating down by two degrees because

00:43:19.170 --> 00:43:22.929
of the amazing impact it would have. And it's

00:43:22.929 --> 00:43:25.010
so incredible. They're also doing their end of

00:43:25.010 --> 00:43:27.610
school exams. And so for me, it's just sort of,

00:43:27.610 --> 00:43:30.329
we all have so much capacity. It's just finding.

00:43:31.869 --> 00:43:33.929
and moments. It's challenging. Yeah, it's challenging

00:43:33.929 --> 00:43:35.909
it and not feeling like we have to do everything.

00:43:36.010 --> 00:43:37.969
Just sort of choose those few things that you

00:43:37.969 --> 00:43:40.949
really believe in and model it for our kids and

00:43:40.949 --> 00:43:43.190
encourage our children to do the same. I think

00:43:43.190 --> 00:43:44.809
that's a really good place to tie up actually,

00:43:44.869 --> 00:43:46.809
Rosalie, because it is. It's about our modelling

00:43:46.809 --> 00:43:48.650
and giving children a space but making it manageable,

00:43:48.730 --> 00:43:51.849
not overwhelming. And just to your point, I remember...

00:43:52.269 --> 00:43:55.690
A couple of dragons talking about little Scottish

00:43:55.690 --> 00:43:59.789
soldiers, which is a charity that supports children

00:43:59.789 --> 00:44:02.670
of military families when maybe somebody has

00:44:02.670 --> 00:44:05.550
been injured or sadly lost in action. And I just

00:44:05.550 --> 00:44:07.969
thought. What a powerful message that was coming

00:44:07.969 --> 00:44:11.150
from children to say of military families wanting

00:44:11.150 --> 00:44:12.969
to support children of other military families.

00:44:13.030 --> 00:44:15.630
They could empathise with how those children

00:44:15.630 --> 00:44:18.289
may be feeling in the situation they found themselves

00:44:18.289 --> 00:44:21.409
in. So the power of the children is extraordinary.

00:44:21.909 --> 00:44:23.869
Well, thank you so much for being part of this

00:44:23.869 --> 00:44:26.289
conversation. Lisa, it's lovely to be able to

00:44:26.289 --> 00:44:28.369
talk to you about your charity. And obviously,

00:44:28.429 --> 00:44:30.469
we're very proud to be a partner with you this

00:44:30.469 --> 00:44:32.590
year. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank

00:44:32.590 --> 00:44:35.880
you both very much. Thank you for listening to

00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:39.159
today's dilemma. If you'd like to hear more about

00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:41.639
what I get up to, please follow me on Instagram

00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:44.179
at headinheels. Or if you want to learn more

00:44:44.179 --> 00:44:46.360
about the Dragon School, our Instagram account

00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:49.659
is dragonschooloxford. And if you've got any

00:44:49.659 --> 00:44:52.420
ideas or dilemmas you'd like us to discuss, please

00:44:52.420 --> 00:44:56.920
do email us at podcast at dragonschool .org.

00:44:57.099 --> 00:44:58.539
So until next time.