1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,680 Welcome to the Educational Dilemma. I'm your host Emma Goldsmith, head of the Dragon School 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,840 in Oxford. Thank you for listening. 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:15,440 So, welcome to the Educational Dilemma. We are round my kitchen table once again and 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:21,080 today we are going to be talking about the dilemma of whether to relocate or not, and 5 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:26,520 particularly out of London, because where we are in Oxford, we see a huge migration of 6 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:31,000 a variety of people coming out of London. So, I have surrounded myself with experts 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,640 once again who are now going to introduce themselves. So, firstly, welcome to Hero. 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,360 Do you want to introduce yourself, Hero? 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:43,840 Why am I going first? Yes, I'm Hero Brown. I'm the founder and editor-in-chief at Muddy 10 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:49,480 Stilettos. Muddy Stilettos is one of the biggest luxury lifestyle sites in the UK with a presence 11 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:56,920 in London, but predominantly outside London. So, we talk to 1.3 million parents every month 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,360 on the site and 3.8 million reach. But as part of the reason I think I'm here today 13 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,920 is because as part of that offering, we do absolutely loads on parenting and schools. 14 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:12,280 We have our own best schools guide. We've been in to see 500 live schools, if you like, 15 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,080 at the moment, so current reviews. And obviously, we're talking a lot to parents and readers 16 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,640 all the time about what they're looking for and the problems that they're having. So, 17 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,480 thank you for having me. Not at all. And in fact, I want to ask you about where the Muddy 18 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:29,160 Stiletto idea came from. I think that is actually relevant. And then we have Ben. 19 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:35,440 Hi, Emma. Yes, I'm Ben Proctor. I'm the founder and managing director of Oxford Property Consulting. 20 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:42,520 We are an Oxfordshire-based property search and buying agency. We help families relocate 21 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:48,160 to the area. We buy houses, we rent houses, we find commercial space, land for development 22 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:53,720 sites. But we help people through that very, very tricky process of understanding where 23 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,440 the right place for them to live is and how best to go about doing it. 24 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,080 Brilliant. And also a dad of two little ones. And a dad of two little ones. 25 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,680 Brilliant. And Alana. Hello, I'm Alana Clear. I, for the purposes 26 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,760 of this podcast, am predominantly a parent. I'm a parent at the wonderful Emma Goldsmith 27 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,480 School, the dragon. Thank you. 28 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:18,760 And we relocated out of London three years ago. So that is what my expertise I'm bringing 29 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:25,520 to the table today. In my own life, I am a strategist for a medtech agency called Made 30 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,800 Clear Studios. Excellent. Thank you so much. And I know you've 31 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,720 been a very good student and actually done a bit of homework for us as well, which is 32 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:36,320 so helpful. Thank you so much. I guess, Ben, if I could start with you. 33 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,640 Yeah. I mean, you obviously are probably the first 34 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:42,960 one to call when people are thinking about relocating. What are you seeing at the minute? 35 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,560 What's the trend at the minute in terms of people wanting to locate particularly out 36 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:51,920 here from London? We've actually seen a slight change this year 37 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:58,960 to where we have been over the course of the last couple of years, in fact. Post pandemic, 38 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:06,720 things changed and we saw a big desire from people to have green spaces, able to work 39 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:12,200 from home. So we saw lots of people looking for village houses outside of the city. And 40 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:18,040 I think that in the last 18 months in particular, that has changed back a little bit more. And 41 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,200 we're having more of a focus on living within the city, closer to schools, because people 42 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,520 want to be able to walk to schools rather than having to fight the traffic coming in. 43 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:30,960 I think closures of roads, which prevent driving into Oxford quite so easily, has been very 44 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:38,080 important for that. But yeah, more of a focus of in-city living again, which people did 45 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,720 move away from for a few years. And do people actually move out because they 46 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,440 want... Is it lifestyle? What is their reason for moving out? 47 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,120 Schools. It is purely schools. I mean, do you find 48 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:55,480 that here? Is that what people are wanting? Yes, I think, well, with London schools, I 49 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,400 mean, it's so generalised, isn't it? But if you kind of think, you know, there's a 50 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,400 lot of pressure on London schools. And mostly there's a pressure on space, isn't there, 51 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,640 Evelyn? I'm sure you'll have something to say about this. But, you know, unless you're 52 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,880 one of the very fortunate schools who've got absolutely acres of space there, acres for 53 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:13,640 your children to be kind of gambling around in, that is another pressure. And also the 54 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,600 pressure to be kind of moving to next schools in London. And that kind of absolute frenzy 55 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,040 that happens, that kind of sucks people in. You know, even the 11 plus in London is this 56 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,080 horrific... I mean, it's quite... It's still quite pressurised, you know, in the home counties 57 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,560 or those places that have it already. But actually in London, it's this absolute sort 58 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,920 of feeding frenzy. So I think some parents want to kind of remove themselves from that. 59 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,320 And they do want to, you know, from a school point of view, they want to be finding some 60 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:44,000 space, a little bit of a slower pace. It doesn't mean that it's not academic or it's not doing 61 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,680 all the stuff that London schools do. But it just... I think there's a kind of like 62 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:54,640 collective calmness and breathing out in that kind of idea of moving out of London to a 63 00:04:54,640 --> 00:05:00,160 slightly more sane level of kind of expectation. 64 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,320 No, that's true. I mean, was schooling part of your decision making when you moved out 65 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:05,320 of London? 66 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:06,320 It was a huge part of it. 67 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:07,320 Was it? 68 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,720 In that COVID, as Ben said, COVID was a big decider because we'd always said we weren't 69 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,680 going to move. And because we were both working in advertising at the time and living in East 70 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,300 London, and then suddenly we could work from anywhere. And so that was a massive trigger 71 00:05:19,300 --> 00:05:28,200 to move. But I think specific to ours was this, the aged eight factor that actually 72 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:35,440 the dragon specifically starts at age eight. And we, our eldest, that summer term, we were 73 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:42,040 at State School in Tower Hamlets. And during COVID, we'd seen that the provision was quite 74 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,040 worryingly poor, actually. I mean, everybody was scrambling at that point. So it wasn't, 75 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:52,160 it's not fair to label any school's reaction to it. But we suddenly were, there were spaces 76 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,400 available at the dragon. And so it was an up and move. And that felt like a really good 77 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:01,000 time. So to build on Hero's point, that actually you suddenly staring down the barrel of secondary 78 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:06,040 school options and what's the secondary school provision in London going to look like. And 79 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,720 if you're going private, you're in that feeding frenzy. If you're going state, then you are 80 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:16,920 entirely at the mercy of not only catchment areas, but the lottery of the catchment area 81 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,600 and the boundings that exist within them. So we were fairly near to a secondary state 82 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:27,080 that we really liked the look of, but we knew that we weren't likely to get into it. It 83 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,160 was going to be a real run of the dice. And so that was, I kind of had my fingers in my 84 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,640 ears until that point thinking something will be fine. Something will happen. It will be 85 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,800 fine. And my brother kept saying, you're going to need to move. And I was like, no, no, no, 86 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:46,160 this is our forever house. And then suddenly everything changed and the stars aligned to 87 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:50,120 allow us to be able to come to the dragon. I mean, just on a point there, obviously we 88 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:55,320 have a pre-prep, but we do have an intake a date. I know that obviously that's a really 89 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,840 quite helpful because in London with the seven plus assessments, it's a really good time 90 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:04,960 to transition as well, isn't it? I mean, interestingly, you were talking about other parents that 91 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:10,000 you talked to, was that a similar situation or do you think people moved out for different 92 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:17,880 reasons? It does seem to me, and again, both Hiro and Ben have mentioned it, that school 93 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,840 is a really big deal. Yeah. Even if you don't want it to be. I mean, I think we all have 94 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,520 those frustrations where you find yourself meeting new people and talking about schools. 95 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:31,360 Oh my God, we're going to talk about schools even more. And yet there's something that 96 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:36,640 starts to agitate, no matter whether or not you want it to grab you or not, there'll be 97 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:43,880 that moment of, oh my goodness, we're in this funnel and we're being pushed towards the 98 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:50,760 garbage chute, to use a star Wars metaphor. But so absolutely, I spoke to a handful of 99 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:57,200 people across state and private and everybody had that moment of, okay, secondary is really 100 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,480 where, like, how is this going to play out? What do I want my children's teenage years 101 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,480 to look like? What do I want the family's teenage years to look like? And there is an 102 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:13,120 element of maximising the remaining bits of childhood. Yes. You know, actually that kind 103 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,360 of eight to 12, when your children still want to spend time with you, how much lovelier 104 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:23,520 to be in a place where you have green spaces and can create something a little bit more 105 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,200 wholesome. Yeah. But I think there's a way, come on Ben. 106 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,800 One of the things to add to that as well is that there are two ways that people come to 107 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,920 Oxford for schooling. So there are the people who know exactly where they're going to send 108 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,320 their children. They say, you know, they're going to go to Linum's, they're going to go 109 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:43,760 to the Dragon or they're going to go to New College and Teddys or whatever it is. And 110 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,680 they have that planned and they say, right, that's what we're going to do. We know when 111 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:51,240 we're going to go. We know when we need to find a house. And then there's the other people 112 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:57,160 who say, we like the concept of Oxford. We know there are good schools there. We know 113 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,560 that we can still commute to London because there's probably some kind of London focus 114 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:06,240 and all they might be coming from overseas. But they know that there are options available 115 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:12,000 to them. So they just take the plunge, move to Oxford and then work out the schools. And 116 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,720 there's no right way of doing it. For every individual family, it's about what works for 117 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:23,760 them. And if the time is right to take that plunge, then it's probably right. But more 118 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,760 often than not, you're the only one who actually knows that. 119 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,080 Yeah. And I think it's difficult, isn't it? Because I spoke to some parents this morning, 120 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,440 in fact, and they were saying, yeah, we were absolutely fine. We thought we'll rent for 121 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:37,320 six months and something will come up. But it's not that easy, is it? I mean, you know, 122 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,520 what would be your advice, I guess, from the kind of actually making it happen? What's 123 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:42,520 the best thing to do? 124 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,800 Well, we hear that all the time. Everyone says to us, we're going to rent for six months 125 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:53,920 and then we'll buy somewhere. Moving to Oxford is really difficult. Finding houses in Oxford 126 00:09:53,920 --> 00:10:00,520 is really, really difficult. Renting is probably more difficult than buying at the moment. 127 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:05,900 There is such a shortage of rental properties available. And at certain times of the year, 128 00:10:05,900 --> 00:10:12,440 there are so many people looking to rent those. There's one agency that we deal with a lot 129 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:18,680 in Summertown, and they typically will put their houses on the market for one hour. So 130 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:22,960 they literally put them on their system live for one hour. The notification goes out on 131 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,440 right move. So everyone sees it on right move. They get those inquiries. They then take it 132 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,560 back off the market because they know that within that hour, they're probably going to 133 00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:35,080 have 15 potential renters who will all be suitable to rent that house. And if they leave 134 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:41,320 it online for three weeks, they'll have hundreds. And it just makes their life impossible. So 135 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:48,000 renting, really, really difficult. Get your ducks in a row. Make sure that you are prepared 136 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:54,160 for references, that you move quickly, that if you see something you like, you take it. 137 00:10:54,160 --> 00:11:01,520 And then buying is a more nuanced process. There are difficulties in buying houses inside 138 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,680 the ring road in Oxford, unless you have a huge budget. But if you've got a huge budget, 139 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:13,080 you're still going to struggle. Again, get prepared. Understand what you're needing to 140 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,760 do to be able to buy a house. Have all the professional services lined up. So have your 141 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,240 lawyer lined up. Have your surveyor. Make sure your finances are in order. Understand 142 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:26,800 what you want to buy and what you need from a house. And then be nice to estate agents. 143 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,840 Be nice to estate agents. Good plan. I mean, this is why we've launched a web of minibuses 144 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:36,440 that go out in so many different directions, so that people can have some choice but still 145 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:43,800 come to the dragon. Coming to the muddy stiletto. Actually, just before that, can I just add 146 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:52,000 one point? Because it sounded like maybe you're thinking house first, but I would almost like, 147 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,960 you know, when you think as a parent, you want to also check out the schools. You know, 148 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:02,000 you almost want to have your kind of top school. I'd really love to go to this one and then 149 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,040 a couple of backups. So it's almost being a little bit more prepared, isn't it? Like, 150 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,800 you know, right across the board, rather than just thinking, okay, I love Oxford and we 151 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,880 know there's great schools. It's kind of like making the time to really kind of drill 152 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,920 down into those, I think. And in fact, a lot of parents who come and see us want to get 153 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,520 the school sorted first and then. So I mean, it depends on what your priorities are as 154 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,600 well, doesn't it? But this idea of muddy stiletto, I mean, I don't know whether I'm 155 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,640 right, but I almost saw it as that your original concept was about it's not too scary to move 156 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,520 out of London. It's totally. No, because I was that person. Yeah. So I moved out from 157 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:43,160 Islington. So very central, like you, Alana. And yes, moved out to what was felt quite 158 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:49,160 rural to me. It's only 35 minutes into London, actually. But yeah, a little village with 159 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:55,160 a 12th century church and a duck pond and kind of went, you know, shit, you know, like, 160 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,720 what is there to do? Of course, there's loads to do. It was ridiculous for me to think it 161 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:05,480 was quite a sort of urban sort of thing to think. But it wasn't very easy to find, is 162 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,800 all I would say. You have to look a little bit, be more in the know, I suppose. And so 163 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:15,800 because I'm a journalist, that just seemed like a no brainer. So I just thought, yeah, 164 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:21,360 urban, countryside, put them together. And that's what muddy stilettos became. Yeah. 165 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,320 I think I think it was brilliant because I remember, you know, we hadn't moved out of 166 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,800 London, but just that that kind of go to place where I could actually see, you know, where 167 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,320 to get my haircut, where to go for dinner, you know, it was really, really helpful. That's 168 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,880 the worry, isn't it? When you can move out, am I going to have any friends? Where am I 169 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,320 going to get my hair cut? You know, is it I mean, genuinely? Well, actually, a number 170 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,560 of the people that I spoke to still go back to London for their hair. Although it's couple 171 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:46,520 of minded for a couple of years. I mean, it's ridiculous, really, isn't it? I mean, there's 172 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,640 so many amazing but it is just about that. It's just about knowing and feeling confident. 173 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,680 And what are you going to take with you? I remember making the promise that I would go 174 00:13:54,680 --> 00:14:01,320 back to London at least once a fortnight, you know, for your fix, for my fix. I frantically 175 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,520 joining the Tate Modern. I mean, I wasn't even a member of the Tate Modern when we lived 176 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:10,680 in East London. I can't be there all the time. And then cancelling that. But actually, you 177 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:14,240 know, and slowly over time, seeing that I didn't need it so much, you know, that that 178 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:21,080 kind of dependence didn't was a panic that I grew up in London. So the idea that I would 179 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:30,560 sever that kind of metropolitan hub. But but the slower pace of life has been so lovely. 180 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:37,520 And and actually, I mean, I've obviously, I've got mates who've made moves to the deepest 181 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:44,560 countryside to Bristol to the seaside. And Oxford is probably the reason that there are 182 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,720 no houses is that it's not that scary a move. You're still near enough to London that you 183 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:55,200 can get come in all the time. It does feel big enough that it holds a lot of holds enough 184 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,760 culture enough restaurants that you're not you know, you're not going into withdrawal. 185 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,240 And you can hop on a train for an hour to, you know, 50 minutes to be in Paddington. 186 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,640 So it is a bit of a cheat. But I think the house prices reflect that. 187 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,680 They do. I mean, house prices in Oxford are kind of like zone to London. Yeah, you know, 188 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:18,120 in the good parts of central North Oxford, you are zone to London or sometimes a little 189 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:23,040 bit more than that. I mean, Ben, where's the up and coming area? 190 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,960 Where should people be buying then if they're going to be really cute at outside of Oxford 191 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,040 if they want if they want to kind of access to all these great schools we talk about outside 192 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:38,040 of Oxford? We've seen fairly significant price rises outside of Oxford in the surrounding 193 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,200 villages over the course of the last few years. With that increase in demand for those over 194 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:49,240 the post covid prices have already kind of gone up in those spaces. We're seeing lots 195 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,920 of demand for market towns, Woodstock, Tain, Abingdon, Whitney. We see quite a few quite 196 00:15:54,920 --> 00:16:00,800 a lot of demand for those or just villages with a nice pub and a school and a shop. 197 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:07,440 That's the ideal that we all want. I mean, just coming back to how do you meet people? 198 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,200 Because I mean, you saying you kind of suddenly arrive in this village here and it's like, 199 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,840 oh, my goodness, how do I meet people? I mean, does does the school kind of provide that 200 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,280 connectivity and community? I mean, is that an important thing when you're when you're 201 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,600 choosing a school? I think they really do care. I think if you've got very young children, 202 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,920 your world is quite small, isn't it? It's kind of it's it's bedtimes, it's feeding, 203 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,680 it's you know, small excursion, that kind of thing. So I think my children are sort 204 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,680 of secondary and beyond that. But I do remember absolutely hanging, you know, just desperately 205 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,040 excited in the playground to meet other parents and to try and make those connections. I think 206 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,200 if you yeah, so if you're looking for school, actually that kind of social element, I think 207 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,480 schools are much better now as well about not only sort of, you know, for the younger 208 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,760 years, but secondary, you know, it's about, you know, what sort of school community is 209 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,080 there? How can parents get involved? And, you know, are they to do the other parents 210 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:03,400 seem fun? I mean, it's kind of I remember going to like, it was a bit was preschool, 211 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,960 but it was a nursery group. And I just remember going there, I spent ages getting ready every 212 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,480 week, hoping that I was going to meet somebody who was like, and I remember seeing my friend 213 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:18,240 we just across the room went you, it's you. And then we got to be friends. And so yeah, 214 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,400 you're just looking for those connections, aren't you all the time at that age? Because 215 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:27,160 it's been easy. I mean, in terms of finding your tribe when you when you got I read somewhere, 216 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:34,120 just after I moved that it takes 300 hours to make a new friend. Really? Yeah. And, and 217 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:38,800 so it's a lot of quite intimidating. Yeah. So if you think about how easy that is, when 218 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,040 you're at school or university, those hours just accrue. But actually, the idea that you've 219 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,680 moved to a new place, and, you know, you can't waste time, yeah, got to commit to the people 220 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:53,720 that you really want to stick to. Yes. But actually, I moved in COVID. And I met another 221 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,400 woman as it wasn't under Dragon School mum. Yeah. And within five minutes, I was like, 222 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:03,040 right, okay, let's set the timer. And this poor woman is still, you know, I'm still busy 223 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:08,320 tallying up our hours. I'm going to watch you afterwards. Have you got to 300? Yeah, 224 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:15,880 oh, definitely. I mean, I am committed. I love that. Because I think you're right. I 225 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,760 think schools have changed. You know, we've really worked hard at kind of making sure 226 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,320 that people understand that it's not just a school, it is a community. And all of those 227 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,480 elements that, you know, thinking also not only about community, but also making sure 228 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,920 that the school is accessible for two working parents. Because if you have moved out of 229 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,480 London, and you do need to go back into London, you shouldn't be having your parents meetings 230 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,400 at three o'clock in the afternoon, because, you know, your parents aren't going to be 231 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,800 able to make it. So I do think those of us who run schools outside of London are really 232 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:49,320 mindful that probably both parents are working, one might be traveling in and out of London. 233 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,560 Thursday night is the new Friday night, we've discovered, you know, because actually, a 234 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,920 lot of people work from home on a Friday. So Thursday night is when you know, we do flexible 235 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,200 boarding, that's when we are flexible boarding numbers are the highest because everyone's 236 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,080 going out on a Thursday night, used to be a Friday. It's just interesting how the whole 237 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:10,360 kind of work life balance has changed completely since COVID. And is reflected on people being 238 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:15,720 able to work anywhere. I'm more interested as well in kind of being I'm just wondering 239 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:22,000 whether post COVID when people, we noticed it a lot on Monday, I mean, actually, we started 240 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,360 something called the best places to live in 2021, but went at that time, when everyone 241 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:32,040 was thinking of moving out of London, that kind of, you know, the panic zone. And obviously, 242 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,240 everything shifted, didn't it, where it used to be quite academic, you know, how academic 243 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,600 is a school became much more about how pastorally strong is that school, you know, how much 244 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,120 how much is my child going to enjoy it, how much scaffolding is in place. And I just wonder 245 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:50,360 whether perhaps that's reflected also in what you put on for parents, you know, because 246 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:54,400 parents want to be more involved now, definitely. And also, they were in the classroom for two 247 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,840 years, you know, they were looking at what kind of provision that was was being offered. 248 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,280 And therefore, some of them became far more interested in actually what went on in the 249 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,640 classroom. So, you know, we do a pupil for an hour event where parents can come and sit 250 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:11,360 in the classroom for that very reason, just to see what is actually going on. But equally, 251 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:16,640 that well being thing is huge, absolutely huge, the well being agenda and just, but 252 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,840 also supporting parents being parents as well, because I think whether it's COVID or whatever, 253 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:27,480 I think we're much more open to ask for help. And I think schools are much more with that 254 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:33,080 community focus about how can we support parents in this parenting journey, so that there is 255 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:39,320 that real triangle between the child, the school and the parents. And and certainly, 256 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,880 I think we're all trying to be a lot more transparent. And quite rightly, parents are 257 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,280 paying a lot of money for their education. So they want to know how it's working and 258 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,440 so on. So I think that is that is important. I don't know what you think. 259 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,200 On that point, I actually think there's a lot that you can't anticipate in a move. You 260 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,440 know, actually, you can go around schools and and probably and I looked at you here, 261 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,320 you must have seen hundreds of schools. And there is there's a trust your gut instinct, 262 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:09,760 you will get the feel of a school from the first experience of it. But the depth of the 263 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:16,240 school, you won't meet until you until you're underway there. So a great friend was just 264 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,640 blown away by the Senko provision at the Dragon, but didn't know that that was what she was 265 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,640 going to need. You know, so actually, you stumble into communities or strengths with 266 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,840 schools that you haven't anticipated beforehand. And similarly, I think that I in the move 267 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:36,000 out of London hadn't anticipated how much I would get from the parent community, such 268 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:42,560 that actually my younger one, so I had one at the pre prep when my older one started 269 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:47,600 at the prep school. And the prep school because it was covered for somebody, it was just much 270 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:53,200 more you know, the child was older, so he was doing a lot of lessons on his own. And 271 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,120 so I was much more engaged with the little one. And that became where I got my friends 272 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:03,440 from. And that that community, that year group really bonded. And for the you know, for a 273 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:09,280 few years after that, we had another father and I would resolve that we would set up parent 274 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,400 drinks twice a term. So either side of half term. And again, Thursday nights were our 275 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,840 winner. Yeah, that was always the way. Yeah. But it meant that actually people at the gate 276 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,320 stopped being strangers, because the Dragon is a big school. Yeah. And you started to 277 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,840 be able to find your tribe in that way. So the little communities that you on earth, 278 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,800 whether or not it's the school provision ones, the Senko, the Dragon is very good 279 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,360 at creating communities around areas within the school. Not least there are actually parent 280 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:42,640 lessons, not just be in the classroom for a day, which I really, really enjoyed doing my 281 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:50,880 Latin with my kings and history with my Blenke. But I also did netball. Yeah. Scottish dancing. 282 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:57,280 Scottish dancing, done that, marvellous. Very big yoga community. So the school is very good 283 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:02,000 at fostering those kind of relationships, which I, as we moved out, I hadn't, I've always been 284 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:08,240 a very engaged parent, but I haven't anticipated that the community around parents that have moved 285 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,480 would be so strong. But you can check that out as well before you, you can, I think you're 286 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,480 absolutely right. There are things that will surprise you or, you know, you won't know that 287 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,680 you'll need before you're kind of in the thick of it at school. And of course, no move to any school 288 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,920 is without, you know, it's a bit of a leap of faith in some ways, isn't it? But I think there are 289 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,400 things that you can do as well beforehand, you know, to, if you're looking at, if you want to 290 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,880 have that really good parent body, you know, there are questions that you can ask about, you know, 291 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,800 what are you putting on throughout the year? Or can you talk to somebody on the parents, you know, 292 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:44,800 the association and sort of also on that pastoral front, you know, the things that you should be 293 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,360 looking for, which actually just done a feature on six, you know, six or seven things that you can 294 00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:54,320 look for as a parent, you know, it's not about, you know, someone like me telling you what I think 295 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,880 about the school, but it's about having a look at the policies or how they might, you know, and 296 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,920 thinking also about what your particular morals might be, you know, whether what you would find 297 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,840 an acceptable way to deal with bullying or, you know, how much, you know, what that scaffolding 298 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,760 is in terms of the pastoral care, whether it really works, et cetera. So there's quite a lot 299 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,280 of digging around that you can do as a parent as well that might actually, it won't solve all of 300 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:24,160 your problems, but it will kind of help you feel more confident about making the decision for the 301 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,240 school, I think. Yeah, that's a really good point actually. Sorry, Fenn. Alana, when you decided to 302 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:33,360 send the kids to the Dragon, did you have a set idea that you were going to send them to the Dragon 303 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:39,920 or did you, or was it, you know, one of many schools that you considered? I feel like I'm so 304 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:46,640 grossly unrepresentative of parents because my husband and I are both very impulsive and 305 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,360 he was at the Dragon and so was my brother and the Dragon is an extraordinary school in that there 306 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:59,200 are a lot of old Dragon parents as a kind of cult of the Dragon and we were living in East London, 307 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:08,000 as I said, and a friend of mine told me that he'd spent lockdown in his place in the Cotswolds and 308 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:14,160 that he'd managed to get his daughter into the Dragon and we phoned you the next day, we did a 309 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:21,040 tour the day after that and we signed up and we moved. So I didn't look at any other schools. 310 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:27,600 The reason I was asking the question was that because what we find with houses is that people 311 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,080 come to us with an idea of what they want to find, what they want to buy and they've got a list of 312 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:38,320 requirements that they have but actually it's their heart that determines which house they're 313 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,960 going to buy and I think that it's very similar with schooling. I think that you probably go into 314 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:49,120 your search for a school with a whole host of ideas for what you want for the education of your 315 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:54,560 children but actually when you go to the school, you meet the teachers, you see the children, 316 00:25:54,560 --> 00:26:00,880 you see the experience, actually that's the thing that decides it for you rather than what your 317 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,000 head is saying about this really should be the best school but if you don't like it doesn't matter. 318 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,720 It's really funny because when I see parents also talking to them about their future school, 319 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,800 which school they might go on to, I always talk about it as buying a new house, you know it's a 320 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,720 gut feel but you're willing to compromise on the kitchen but actually your gut feel is that it's 321 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,840 the right house for you and so much is led by that. I mean coming back to how many schools you go 322 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:31,040 visit here at, what makes a school you think yeah this is going to be a really kind of I don't know 323 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:37,200 happy place? I mean you said about a feature but for you what is it that kind of signs you up and 324 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,360 goes yeah I want to go to that school? Oh god it's really different because obviously all schools are 325 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:45,520 different big and small. I suppose the thing I quite like seeing is, I know it sounds ridiculous 326 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:51,360 but I like seeing a bit of mess, I like seeing kids, we can do that for you, the dragon, I like 327 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:57,440 seeing kids, I like watching the interactions between parents and the kids, sorry the teachers 328 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,200 and the children so there's quite a sort of easy relationship you know if a kid's kind of scooting 329 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:06,160 around a corner and the teacher's like whoa slow down you know rather than sort of you know getting 330 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:12,800 a bit sweaty about it. I mean I love to talk to the children I would say for anybody going to any 331 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,600 school talk to the children they're so honest it's brilliant so I love I mean there are quite a few 332 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,200 schools I think you're one of them who you know they'll just let me loose with the children or 333 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,440 the children will show me around now obviously quite often they will be obviously it might be 334 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,480 the head boy and the head girl but and so they're kind of very sensible kids but they're still 335 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,520 children and they're still they still will be honest and so you get those kind of real nuggets 336 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,280 of you know if you ask a child if you're going around to school and you say hey you know 337 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,360 would you send your best mate would you tell your best mate to come here they'll say yes or no 338 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:48,240 pretty quick yeah so I think it's those little things I mean more than anything that you're 339 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,760 the problem is when you're going around on a tour you know you're being handed a brochure 340 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:59,680 over school and you're kind of you know it's you know it's a PR exercise in some ways isn't it 341 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,480 so it's really difficult to scratch beneath the surface so it is really about I think 342 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:11,280 I think again it's a little bit of intuition it's kind of looking beyond you know it's all very well 343 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,920 for somebody to say oh we have fantastic pastoral care here you know it's about sort of seeing then 344 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,080 okay well here's the well-being room and you go and talk to that person and and you maybe sort of 345 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,600 I mean you know talk to a child talk to a child I quite often will ask them 346 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,920 and you know do you feel well supported you know do you know who to go to if there's if you've got 347 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:35,040 a problem or and also the really good one which I love to ask is who's your favourite teacher 348 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,840 because if you've got children they just clamour to kind of say who their favourite teacher is 349 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:46,640 that's just a really really good sign and if they're kind of sort of stony silence and someone's 350 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,200 kind of going ah and their eyes are rolled to the ceiling you know trying to think then you um you've 351 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,040 got your answer of whether you should send your child there I think I mean it's an interesting 352 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,120 question is that is it better to go to an open morning or is it best to go on a bespoke tour when 353 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,200 you're looking at schools and I would always say you know you go to the open morning to get a feel 354 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,520 and a taste but always go back and have that bespoke tour because you probably will have more 355 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:12,400 access to to children and and really kind of see whether you're going to trust the adults who are 356 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,920 going to be looking after your children because fundamentally you know any school is about 357 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,320 relationships and it's ensuring that you feel really positive about the relationships with the 358 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,280 with the staff that you come you meet it's it's so important um I think you've got to be a bit 359 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:31,200 careful about kind of um mum's net and and so on because that that can give a little bit of a skewed 360 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,320 view um and going back to doing research I think you know trusting your mates who've maybe moved 361 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,200 out is probably quite a good way but yes no I'm not I wouldn't be suggesting open forums that's 362 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,360 not definitely not I mean that's you know I think one of the things that we do on Muddy you know 363 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,640 I know we're we're trusted by the head so I know the headmasters look at us when they're thinking 364 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,680 of changing schools so we're very very careful about kind of getting a really good overview 365 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,600 but you're right it's it's not so much those open forums when you just don't know who is kind of 366 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:05,120 exactly who's kind of you know bowling in with their opinion definitely friends definitely anyone 367 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:10,000 who's who's children have been to that school and I think maybe like children who are quite low you 368 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,560 know the the children who were kind of in the first year at the school is a really good indication 369 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,960 if you talk to them because they're new they're probably quite vulnerable if children in the 370 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,240 upper years are being a bit bullying or unkind then you know that's how they're going to be 371 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,000 feeling and actually conversely at the top end of the school when you've had your child's gone 372 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:33,280 right the way through and they'll have a really good overview of their time there and you know 373 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,000 those two extremes if you can talk to those children it's probably a good yeah I agree and 374 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,000 actually certainly you know as a school we will always put people in touch with parents that they 375 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,880 they can chat to because you know you do want those endorsements about what it is that you want 376 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,040 I mean are there any downsides I mean you know what what have you missed about not being in London 377 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,040 I mean are there any downsides and things you do have to go do you know what actually 378 00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:00,240 we I've got to let that go take London I mean take more to us that's a tragedy right there 379 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,160 just lived there the turbine hall 380 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:13,760 I have a great mate who moved he moved up here and he really misses the culture right everybody 381 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:19,440 will say there's a bit of there's a bit of kind of culturey type vibes and a bit of restauranty 382 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:26,560 type vibes yes they're the things that um I suppose it's something that you don't know that you've 383 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,960 lost until you've lost it you can still go into London and there are still some good restaurants 384 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,200 interestingly one of the dragon parents runs a restaurant in London and we asked him why he 385 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,200 wouldn't open in Oxford or if he would and he said he absolutely wouldn't and the reason is that 386 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:47,840 the colleges take all of the good serving staff so you can't get 36 institutions offer PAYE and 387 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:55,200 good hours and so it's really hard for restaurants here to find anybody good and actually hats off 388 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,720 to anybody who hats off to all the restaurants you have done it there are some there are some 389 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,320 greats but I think it's the the options aren't so great and we feel that yeah that is really 390 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:09,280 interesting isn't it yeah you have to kind of change your sorry so I know I was just going to 391 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,520 say but you know it's interesting that those two things culture and restaurants but you don't go 392 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:21,600 into London to or do you do you kind of um feed that side of things by going in or is it just one 393 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,880 of those things like oh yeah you know I really want to go see that Sargent exhibition but 394 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:34,000 there are there are little tribes that are talking of tribes you know the endless whatsapp groups but 395 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,440 the wonderful little clusters the book clubs and yeah got a wonderful little craft night of six of 396 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:45,440 us you're three years in and that you know people will suggest trips into town or and what I'm really 397 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,720 loving is that we're finding some wonderful stuff in Oxford that actually it's not that there's a 398 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:57,760 dearth in Oxford it's just harder to find stuff so there's some amazing stuff at the university 399 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:03,920 um again with a collection of mums we went to a political talk at the Blavatnik school of 400 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:11,520 government we went to an amazing um William Kentridge artist talk at the examination schools 401 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:17,040 offered by the Ruskin and you just think my goodness and then another mum shared all of the 402 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,560 upcoming uh lectures that are open to the public from the university and it is rich and fascinating 403 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:29,840 and that's just not a world that we'd engaged with so it's more scratching to find what's there 404 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:37,040 rather than the blithe oh it's just not you know it's not here it's merely that I've arrived here 405 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:44,320 as a mother and you know and working I don't have the same 20 you know my time in my 20s to spend 406 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,800 that time finding all of the good stuff and then knowing about it that's that's what I'm here for 407 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,440 yes that's what I mean yeah that's the amazing thing like modern art Oxford I mean people it's 408 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,360 unbelievable how few people know where it is I mean it's and it's literally just around the corner 409 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:02,800 from the west gate I mean it's it's mind-boggling people who've lived you know in the area all their 410 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,360 lives and they've never been to it and it's free I mean it's that sort of thing it is but and it's 411 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,160 interesting because obviously we're very much talking about Oxford because that's where we are 412 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,040 but but I think that is a consideration when you are moving out of London you know are you going to 413 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,880 want to be right in the middle of a field or do you need to be somewhere you know Cambridge Oxford 414 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,640 or wherever there will be some culture but that's quite interesting as well because that's changed 415 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,880 isn't it that so when we did best places to live it basically covers all our counties and it's like 416 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,520 the eight or ten places you know they've got good schools transport nice pubs all that stuff you're 417 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,240 saying and there was that feeling wasn't there from London which was like get me out of here I 418 00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:41,520 want some fresh air and I want to sell my you know three-bedroom terrace in London and go and live 419 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:46,080 in a manor house in Wiltshire kind of thing and and it was quite rural you know there was that 420 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,560 kind of pull to the countryside or the coast and then obviously the papers then started by oh 421 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,120 everyone's bowling back into London because they can't stand the local you know the local people 422 00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:00,080 the cows or whatever all this sort of sort of extremism but I just wonder whether actually the 423 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:06,320 cities are you know the the cities outside London feel like a really you know maybe that's another 424 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,000 reason that Oxford is just so busy I mean saying Oxford but you could be anywhere it could be 425 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:16,560 Exeter or you know Bristol or wherever where and you know it's that lovely halfway house isn't it 426 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,560 you still got one of the interesting one of the interesting things that we that we get you know 427 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:28,240 is that with you know Soho farmhouse um Dalesford Estelle Manor restoration hardware all of these 428 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:34,560 clubs that are opening up on the outskirts of what in the Cotswolds effectively um are are there 429 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,840 for a reason you know there is a market for them you know you hear talk of Londonshire you know 430 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:46,880 out in the Cotswolds and and people are drawn to this area because not only do they still have 431 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,760 access to London but London is almost spreading out yeah and so the things that they that they 432 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:58,160 have missed about London are actually coming to the area um culture is probably the one thing that 433 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,240 people often say to us actually that they miss yeah when they're here is that yes there is 434 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:07,120 certain things that you can do in Oxford you know Ashmolean is you know the oldest museum in the 435 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:12,400 country I think um and yeah we do have culture here but but just not in the same volume that 436 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,680 you do in London um but I think that's also okay I mean yeah you know you it's not the same size 437 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:22,240 as London so you you have to accept that you know you're not going to get exactly what you 438 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:26,560 can get in London and I get excited when I go into London I do get that real excitement however 439 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,280 when I'm on my way back I'm also oh yeah it's quite nice it's quite nice you know just for 50 440 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,520 minutes it's it's fine to come back and out of it there's something about the cliches as well 441 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,800 you know I'm my 20 year old self would have hated the fact that I was taking a kind of 442 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:47,520 getting on the train at Paddington and be like oh thank goodness I'm leaving um and now actually 443 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,960 that's what fits that's that's exactly right you know I go into London and I get that free serve 444 00:36:53,840 --> 00:37:00,880 here I am and there's so much going on and it's wonderful I think there is a there is the diversity 445 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:06,720 certainly in North Oxford I'm very aware even getting off the train in Paddington that I'm 446 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:12,480 seeing much more of real life in you know within the first half hour of being back in London than 447 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:19,440 I do in weeks here and I think that is that that's something that a lot of my London friends 448 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:27,200 you know you've undergone the oxidous as it were um arrives and thought there's you know what 449 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:33,360 what is this representative for our kids of what you know London really felt like a wonderful 450 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:40,800 melting pot and all of the opinions and uh cultures and um mores that sit with that and 451 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:50,720 it's a little bit more um uh I suppose quite one-dimensional yeah and that's brilliant you 452 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:55,760 mentioned that because you know we at the Dragon I would say actually we're quite a diverse community 453 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:01,360 um because we do have our overseas children and that sort of thing so actually it's quite a good 454 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,880 compromise on that because you know other rural prep schools particularly do tend to be extremely 455 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:11,360 one-dimensional whereas at least being in Oxford where we have you know families who perhaps um 456 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,760 children of academics who are here just for a short time we've got we have those layers so I 457 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,240 agree with you in the whole North Oxford is not terribly diverse however you know we do manage 458 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:26,160 a bit of diversity um in the field of the Dragon and we actually get people coming the other way 459 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:32,880 so we get people who who live out in the countryside and they want that that hit of urban life for their 460 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,960 children their children have grown up in the countryside don't understand the realities of 461 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,520 living in a city and the differences to you know being able to walk down the lane and not worry 462 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:47,520 about a car coming to run you over to actually live in a city and they wanted Oxford as that 463 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:53,440 you know taster as much as anything to ease them into urban life a little bit more get a bit more 464 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,280 streetwise as opposed to just growing up in the countryside that's true and that that little bit 465 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:02,800 of independence in a slightly more safe environment um we will be coming to the end shortly and I'm 466 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,840 going to give you a minute to think about this because at the end of each of our podcasts we've 467 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:11,600 talked about our our teacher our fantasy teacher um and someone who we thought would make a brilliant 468 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:17,760 teacher um whether it's somebody you know or somebody from history or whatever um so here we 469 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:24,400 go who's going to dare to go first this is very cruel making you do this uh Stephen Fry oh why 470 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:29,040 Stephen Fry he hated school well because everyone hangs on to his every word don't they so you know 471 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:34,240 he regales these amazing stories he he can talk for hours everyone listens to everything he's got 472 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:39,440 to say um and a lot of it isn't true yeah what would you talk though this is the incident what 473 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,360 do you history don't you think yeah but the classics yeah he's quite keen on the classics 474 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,360 isn't he yeah or in english english literature yeah i don't think i'd want to be his head actually 475 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:53,920 trying to control him try would be hilarious do you have any thoughts here it's really hard 476 00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,400 i don't know like i suppose if i was going to be if i was in a prep school and i wanted somebody 477 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:05,600 young and funky i think Florence Pugh would be quite good wouldn't she yes really good Oxford 478 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:11,920 local i was gonna say Oxford local yes she is but she's kind of got something yeah she's quite 479 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,240 funky and intelligent and a bit fearless yes that's what you want in a teacher isn't it someone to 480 00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:21,360 shake things up a little bit yeah the disruptor yeah disruptor yeah no i can see that with the 481 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:29,280 added nose ring yeah absolutely i i'm gonna come with a slightly more earnest answer which is 482 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:34,960 that i thought about what i loved in the great teachers and i loved their patience and how they 483 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:44,640 inspired and i'm gonna say my second son was teaching me how to play minecraft and gosh the 484 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:53,440 patience and the encouragement and the gentleness so my answer is sam clear which is going to 485 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:58,960 embarrass the hell out of him but i can see that i can see that and that that's that is such a lovely 486 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:05,600 answer and one that he will listen to and be very proud of his mum well thank you so much everybody 487 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,000 for your time this morning it's been a really interesting discussion and hopefully we'll have 488 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,400 given some food for thought for our listeners so thank you very much you are very welcome thank 489 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:22,080 you could i end with a final thought you may from another headmaster who gave a speech the leaving 490 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,880 speech on my last day at wiccanabbie and the name of the man was eric anderson and he was 491 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,040 tony blair's teacher and he gave a piece of advice which has been the best piece of advice i've ever 492 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:37,520 been given which is if you think twice about doing something do it and if you think twice about saying 493 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:45,520 something don't if you are thinking about leaving london that's enough do it you won't regret it 494 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:51,920 oh what how that could not be a better ending thank you so much fantastic thank you for being 495 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:57,920 here thank you for listening to today's dilemma if you'd like to hear more about what i get up to 496 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:03,120 please follow me on instagram at head in heels or if you want to learn more about the dragon school 497 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:08,640 our instagram account is dragon school oxford and if you've got any ideas or dilemmas you'd 498 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:22,480 like us to discuss please do email us at podcast at dragon school dot org so until next time