WEBVTT 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:03.100 This is the Pepperwood Podcast, a production 00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:05.860 of Pepperwood, a nonprofit conservation organization 00:00:05.860 --> 00:00:09.480 based at a 3 ,200 -acre nature reserve near Santa 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:12.119 Rosa, California, in the heart of the traditional 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:15.539 homeland of the Wappo people. At Pepperwood, 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.500 we aim to inspire conservation through science. 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:21.620 And on this show, we talk to scientists, stewards, 00:00:21.940 --> 00:00:24.420 and environmental educators about what they do 00:00:24.420 --> 00:00:27.670 and how they do it. We hope to give you a glimpse 00:00:27.670 --> 00:00:30.190 into the real experiences of folks who devote 00:00:30.190 --> 00:00:32.450 their lives to taking care of local ecosystems 00:00:32.450 --> 00:00:38.250 and sharing them with others. Welcome to Season 00:00:38.250 --> 00:00:41.670 2 of the Pepperwood Podcast and our 7th episode 00:00:41.670 --> 00:00:46.149 overall. It is 2025 and that makes this the 20 00:00:46.149 --> 00:00:49.369 -year anniversary of Pepperwood as an organization. 00:00:50.219 --> 00:00:52.780 We're in conversation with a pair of folks who 00:00:52.780 --> 00:00:55.119 have been a part of Pepperwood since its inception, 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:58.560 Steve Barnhart, our original Director of Education, 00:00:58.859 --> 00:01:02.219 and Linda Barnhart, a member of our first class 00:01:02.219 --> 00:01:05.579 of Pepperwood stewards. They are both honored 00:01:05.579 --> 00:01:07.799 members of this community, and their contributions 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:11.219 have been formally recognized most recently at 00:01:11.219 --> 00:01:15.370 the Sunset Celebration in June of 2025. We'll 00:01:15.370 --> 00:01:17.569 hear from Steve and Linda about their respective 00:01:17.569 --> 00:01:21.870 and ongoing two decade long journeys with pepperwood. 00:01:22.230 --> 00:01:26.049 This conversation took place in late 2024, and 00:01:26.049 --> 00:01:28.310 Steve describes how he was first introduced to 00:01:28.310 --> 00:01:30.870 pepperwood and its founder, Herb Dwight, and 00:01:30.870 --> 00:01:33.310 some of his research on oak species that connected 00:01:33.310 --> 00:01:36.250 pepperwood to researchers in other Californian 00:01:36.250 --> 00:01:39.769 climate zones in other parts of the world. Linda 00:01:39.769 --> 00:01:42.650 tells the story of the original naturalist training 00:01:42.650 --> 00:01:45.209 class for the Pepperwood Stewards Program and 00:01:45.209 --> 00:01:47.290 the diverse ways in which she has contributed 00:01:47.290 --> 00:01:50.769 to Pepperwood's mission over the years. Let's 00:01:50.769 --> 00:01:53.010 dive into my conversation with Steve and Linda 00:01:53.010 --> 00:01:55.870 Barnhart, beginning with Steve's story of how 00:01:55.870 --> 00:01:58.390 he first came to be introduced to Pepperwood. 00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:03.829 I used to come up here with classes quite often 00:02:03.829 --> 00:02:06.689 when the Cal Academy had the property. And then 00:02:06.689 --> 00:02:11.900 later when... Pepperwood became, about the same 00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:14.680 time Pepperwood became the Pepperwood Foundation, 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:17.599 that's when I retired from the junior college 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:21.979 and came up here to work. So I would say probably 00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:28.280 from the mid to late 70s until I retired in 2006, 00:02:28.780 --> 00:02:31.759 not every year, but there were years when I would 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:34.759 bring various classes up here. Great. And I got 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:38.500 to know Greg DeNevers, who was the, original 00:02:38.500 --> 00:02:40.680 caretaker of the preserve for the Cal Academy 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:43.599 and he developed a very nice herbarium which 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:47.240 I often used to see what was here and then a 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:50.300 fellow by the name of David Cavagnaro who has 00:02:50.300 --> 00:02:54.039 since moved to Iowa years ago but he owned property 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:56.939 out where in Garrison Canyon where we have a 00:02:56.939 --> 00:03:00.800 little cabin and he lived there and he was a 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:03.960 photographer and he had a studio art studio out 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:07.229 there as well So from those two guys, I got to 00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:09.849 know the preserve pretty well when I was young 00:03:09.849 --> 00:03:12.289 enough to be able to hike like they do or did. 00:03:13.689 --> 00:03:16.969 So that really, you predate Michael and his time 00:03:16.969 --> 00:03:20.189 here at the property. That's so incredible. But 00:03:20.189 --> 00:03:23.030 Michael, of course, came as an employee. I didn't 00:03:23.030 --> 00:03:25.629 come here until much later than he. Right, in 00:03:25.629 --> 00:03:27.210 terms of being on the site. And, of course, I 00:03:27.210 --> 00:03:30.669 met Michael later in my career at the junior 00:03:30.669 --> 00:03:34.550 college when he was taking Greg's place. If you 00:03:34.550 --> 00:03:37.030 haven't yet heard the story of how Michael Gologly 00:03:37.030 --> 00:03:39.150 first came on board as a Pepperwood staff member 00:03:39.150 --> 00:03:41.870 and eventually stepped up into the role of preserve 00:03:41.870 --> 00:03:44.710 manager, you can catch that back in episode five 00:03:44.710 --> 00:03:47.849 of our podcast. Steve goes on to describe the 00:03:47.849 --> 00:03:50.650 process of joining Pepperwood staff as our first 00:03:50.650 --> 00:03:54.719 director of education. Well, Herb Dwight came 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:57.939 to the college and had an appointment with our 00:03:57.939 --> 00:04:00.139 president, this is Santa Rosa Junior College, 00:04:00.379 --> 00:04:05.199 in 1998, 1999, somewhere there. That was when 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:07.360 the Cal Academy first put the property up for 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.219 sale. And he was very interested, and he was 00:04:10.219 --> 00:04:13.800 very interested in converting it into an outdoor 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:18.329 classroom, preserve, research area. Very similar, 00:04:18.490 --> 00:04:21.970 they hope, to the Jasper Ridge Preserve that 00:04:21.970 --> 00:04:24.750 is run by Stanford University. Both he and Jane 00:04:24.750 --> 00:04:27.970 are very connected to Stanford. Or Jane was, 00:04:28.009 --> 00:04:32.990 of course. And our president said, I don't know 00:04:32.990 --> 00:04:34.750 anything about Pepperwood. Does anybody here 00:04:34.750 --> 00:04:36.629 on campus know? Well, one of the vice presidents 00:04:36.629 --> 00:04:40.089 knew I did. So I got to come to the next meeting. 00:04:40.610 --> 00:04:43.149 And so I met him probably right at the end of 00:04:43.149 --> 00:04:47.009 the 1990s. We began thinking about what we could 00:04:47.009 --> 00:04:49.209 do out here, but then Cal Academy took the property 00:04:49.209 --> 00:04:52.069 off the market. Then they put it back on the 00:04:52.069 --> 00:04:56.629 market in about 2004. Herb and Jane had decided 00:04:56.629 --> 00:04:58.389 that if it came back on the market, they would 00:04:58.389 --> 00:05:00.569 purchase it through the Pepperwood Foundation. 00:05:02.110 --> 00:05:08.970 When I retired in 2006... Herb asked me if I 00:05:08.970 --> 00:05:13.689 would be interested in working with them to develop 00:05:13.689 --> 00:05:19.389 the education side of the preserve. And I said 00:05:19.389 --> 00:05:21.689 I'd love to. It would be a good segue into retirement. 00:05:22.050 --> 00:05:25.670 Okay. Just this mini baby little project of developing 00:05:25.670 --> 00:05:28.889 a whole program. Exactly. I thought that would 00:05:28.889 --> 00:05:31.990 be pretty challenging and interesting. And so 00:05:31.990 --> 00:05:36.399 we agreed on. It would be half time and a salary 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.459 and so forth. And Herb is a very, as a man and 00:05:40.459 --> 00:05:44.000 always will be, a very generous man. But it turned 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:45.800 out the first few years to be pretty much full 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:51.699 time. And so my expertise, of course, was with 00:05:51.699 --> 00:05:56.899 adult or, at best, teenage folks. And I knew 00:05:56.899 --> 00:05:58.800 I needed somebody to help me, and that's when 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:01.939 I hired Margaret in about 2007. That's right, 00:06:01.980 --> 00:06:05.220 because she was previously working for Cal Academy. 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:08.040 She had worked for Cal Academy, and on occasion, 00:06:08.139 --> 00:06:10.279 Michael had asked her to come up and do special 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:13.439 things here. So she was aware of what was here. 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.279 So she was a natural partner for you. Yeah, and 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:19.360 she had... I think, you'd have to ask her, but 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:21.740 I think that she was not working for Cal Academy 00:06:21.740 --> 00:06:23.860 at the time, but she was looking to do something. 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:26.819 Great. And so, yeah. That worked. So, yeah, that 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:29.540 was the first dream team in our education program 00:06:29.540 --> 00:06:33.519 there. Margaret and me. Margaret and Steve. Steve's 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:37.060 story has a familiar ring to me. I also loved 00:06:37.060 --> 00:06:39.259 Pepperwood and was a satellite member of the 00:06:39.259 --> 00:06:41.779 community long before I became a staff member. 00:06:42.860 --> 00:06:45.160 I had even heard the name Steve Barnhart spoken 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:48.259 often at Pepperwood long before I was lucky enough 00:06:48.259 --> 00:06:50.740 to meet him, and almost always in conjunction 00:06:50.740 --> 00:06:54.220 with oaks. I just had to hear about the details 00:06:54.220 --> 00:06:56.720 of his research on Pepperwood's oak species. 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:00.899 I had become interested when I was teaching at 00:07:00.899 --> 00:07:03.480 the JC and doing a little research with students. 00:07:03.819 --> 00:07:07.199 And I selected, I went to the very first California 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:10.000 oak symposium in the late 70s. And it was very 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:12.300 obvious to me that the knowledge about California 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:15.420 oaks was pretty paltry at best. And virtually 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:17.959 nothing was known about an oak that finds its 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.540 southernmost distribution here in the North Bay, 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:23.839 commonly called Oregon oak. So I selected that 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:28.050 as kind of my research topic. And then, of course, 00:07:28.089 --> 00:07:30.110 I'm looking for places to study it. And I had 00:07:30.110 --> 00:07:36.009 plots in Annadel. I had plots in Sugarloaf. And 00:07:36.009 --> 00:07:39.509 I also, because I had become familiar with a 00:07:39.509 --> 00:07:42.649 lot of pepperwood, wanted to find similar kinds 00:07:42.649 --> 00:07:45.829 of places here. And we found some really nice, 00:07:45.850 --> 00:07:49.509 relatively homogeneous stands of Oregon oak on 00:07:49.509 --> 00:07:53.269 Horse Hill on the North Slope from Garrison Canyon 00:07:53.269 --> 00:08:00.079 up toward... the old Goodman Preserve. And Mike 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.860 Barber, who was an ecologist at UC Davis, and 00:08:02.860 --> 00:08:05.759 I were good friends. And he was also doing something 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:10.379 similar with a sierran oak with a guy named Danny 00:08:10.379 --> 00:08:16.000 Sanchez Mate, who is an ecologist in Madrid at 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.779 the University Autumonia de Madrid or something 00:08:19.779 --> 00:08:23.860 like that. That was where Linda and I spent my 00:08:23.860 --> 00:08:26.459 last sabbatical, was in Madrid working with Danny. 00:08:27.019 --> 00:08:30.319 Incredible. And there we were looking at Quercus 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.100 pyraniaca, the Pyrenees oak, that comes down 00:08:33.100 --> 00:08:36.240 much like organ oak is from northern, wetter 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:39.860 climates. In Spain, it comes down into the southern, 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:44.320 more the Castile region, where there's more California 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.379 -type climate. Right. And so we were comparing 00:08:47.379 --> 00:08:49.460 the two. And out of that came two or three publications. 00:08:51.949 --> 00:08:54.610 I'm listed, but I'm clearly the junior author. 00:08:55.669 --> 00:08:59.090 But Danny and I and Mike all remain good friends 00:08:59.090 --> 00:09:01.289 for that time. Mike, unfortunately, has passed 00:09:01.289 --> 00:09:05.029 away due to Parkinson's. And Danny, we still 00:09:05.029 --> 00:09:07.169 exchange Christmas cards, but he's in Madrid 00:09:07.169 --> 00:09:09.250 and I'm here. That's a bit of a commute there. 00:09:09.450 --> 00:09:12.570 But anyway, that's what came of that. And then 00:09:12.570 --> 00:09:17.029 Joe McBride. who has also retired but was a forestry 00:09:17.029 --> 00:09:19.889 professor at Berkeley that I knew, he and I did 00:09:19.889 --> 00:09:22.529 some consulting work with Oregon oak primarily 00:09:22.529 --> 00:09:26.389 throughout the North Bay because it's the habitat 00:09:26.389 --> 00:09:29.610 in which we find most commonly the Douglas fir 00:09:29.610 --> 00:09:32.789 coming in. Ah, the encroachment. The encroachment 00:09:32.789 --> 00:09:35.970 of Douglas fir. And so by our studies, and we 00:09:35.970 --> 00:09:40.490 had an article in 1996 in Madronio that talked 00:09:40.490 --> 00:09:43.029 about what we were finding. in the North Bay, 00:09:43.090 --> 00:09:45.009 and that coincided with some work that was being 00:09:45.009 --> 00:09:47.830 done up in Redwood National Park in their Oregon 00:09:47.830 --> 00:09:52.169 oak stands with Douglas fir encroachment. Oh, 00:09:52.289 --> 00:09:54.850 I couldn't hear Steve make reference to the idea 00:09:54.850 --> 00:09:57.710 of Douglas fir encroachment without asking him 00:09:57.710 --> 00:10:00.600 to dive a little deeper on that topic. Now, I 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:02.779 did not predict, although I wasn't surprised, 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.679 to hear him describe how this phenomenon has 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:08.440 its roots in the disruption of traditional fire 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.220 regimes, as we discussed back in Episode 2 with 00:10:11.220 --> 00:10:14.899 Devin Friedfell. Here is some of Steve's research 00:10:14.899 --> 00:10:17.340 -based perspective on the relationship between 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:20.899 oaks and Douglas fir trees. Well, Douglas fir 00:10:20.899 --> 00:10:24.159 is a native species, and so unlike a lot of species 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:28.590 that... encroach that are non -native. Try to 00:10:28.590 --> 00:10:32.809 dominate out other species, right? Douglas fir 00:10:32.809 --> 00:10:36.590 is, our studies and many other people's have 00:10:36.590 --> 00:10:40.309 found that the primary reason Douglas fir has 00:10:40.309 --> 00:10:44.389 expanded its boundaries is because of the lack 00:10:44.389 --> 00:10:47.669 of burning or fire. Particularly the fact that 00:10:47.669 --> 00:10:49.669 the Native Americans, the indigenous people, 00:10:49.769 --> 00:10:54.590 use fire. They did that for many reasons, but 00:10:54.590 --> 00:10:56.649 one was to keep their oak woodlands open and 00:10:56.649 --> 00:11:00.169 productive for acorns and also the bulbous herbs 00:11:00.169 --> 00:11:02.309 that grew under them that they would harvest. 00:11:02.590 --> 00:11:05.389 Right. Well, because oak stands and oak woodlands, 00:11:05.389 --> 00:11:07.750 when they're open and able to sort of persist, 00:11:08.110 --> 00:11:11.509 they're some of the most biodiverse and useful 00:11:11.509 --> 00:11:14.090 species. Oh, they are, yes. In fact, if you were 00:11:14.090 --> 00:11:17.350 to measure all the insects and... All the other 00:11:17.350 --> 00:11:20.710 animals, including the plant life, oak woodlands 00:11:20.710 --> 00:11:25.370 are the most biodiverse vegetation type in the 00:11:25.370 --> 00:11:28.289 state. Right. And then as far as our sort of 00:11:28.289 --> 00:11:31.950 human use, what we call ethnobotanical use, not 00:11:31.950 --> 00:11:35.289 only is it diverse, but it includes a lot of 00:11:35.289 --> 00:11:38.809 species that are important for food sovereignty 00:11:38.809 --> 00:11:41.750 and the ability for humans to access food in 00:11:41.750 --> 00:11:44.240 this. ecosystem right yeah well not only food 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:46.100 sovereignty but of course many of the plants 00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:49.080 were used for other purposes such as basketry 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:51.740 and so forth as well you know so they were very 00:11:51.740 --> 00:11:56.500 good farmers if you will right they have farmed 00:11:56.500 --> 00:11:59.500 for oaks right and their associated species and 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:04.940 and so but by making fire a bad thing and of 00:12:04.940 --> 00:12:07.220 course the longer you keep it out the badder 00:12:07.220 --> 00:12:11.769 it gets right we found that Douglas fir would 00:12:11.769 --> 00:12:15.250 come in. But they needed that shade because the 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:17.509 seedlings, particularly here in this region, 00:12:17.570 --> 00:12:20.529 as opposed to, say, Washington, there's no summer 00:12:20.529 --> 00:12:24.070 rain. And they need the soils to remain somewhat 00:12:24.070 --> 00:12:27.350 moist longer into the summer, which the shade 00:12:27.350 --> 00:12:30.659 of... these oaks or other hardwoods would provide. 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:33.580 Oh, so that's interesting. That brings us a little 00:12:33.580 --> 00:12:37.059 bit circling back to that Spain connection that 00:12:37.059 --> 00:12:39.519 you had before where if you have an oak species 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:45.000 that is... pushing its boundaries of its range 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:48.220 down into its southernmost region that also pushes 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:50.580 it into an area where it's going to have the 00:12:50.580 --> 00:12:53.519 most competition that's right with its other 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:56.159 species and probably getting to the point where 00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:59.480 it can only just out competed enough to survive 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:03.299 and persist although oh my goodness to go back 00:13:03.299 --> 00:13:06.659 into another layer that Only that persistence 00:13:06.659 --> 00:13:09.519 can only happen if they are getting the disturbance 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:14.559 that that regular fire was producing. Oh, well, 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:16.620 that's some three -dimensional chess that I'm 00:13:16.620 --> 00:13:17.899 going to have to work on a little bit later. 00:13:18.059 --> 00:13:19.399 And there's a whole other issue, too, which we 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:22.019 may or may not want to go into. But we've had 00:13:22.019 --> 00:13:25.539 quite a few studies on oak hybridization. And 00:13:25.539 --> 00:13:28.279 we find that the Oregon oak on its southernmost 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:32.000 distribution down here, the best stands of it 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:35.769 are not pure. They are hybrids with more drought 00:13:35.769 --> 00:13:40.509 -tolerant oaks like the blue oak. And so we can 00:13:40.509 --> 00:13:44.210 document from California history at least two 00:13:44.210 --> 00:13:47.309 other species. Both of them live now in Southern 00:13:47.309 --> 00:13:50.889 California, which probably evolved from hybrids. 00:13:50.889 --> 00:13:54.110 And then as the climate changed in the past... 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.639 the original parents disappeared, at least from 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.320 that area, and left the hybrids. And, of course, 00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:01.720 somebody comes along 500 years later and says, 00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:05.480 hmm, this is a new species. Right, right. And 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:07.899 that really tells me, so that's something I've 00:14:07.899 --> 00:14:10.480 heard a lot about oaks, which is that they are... 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:12.580 what's the word that people use so carefully? 00:14:12.700 --> 00:14:15.240 Promiscuous, right? They have this tendency to 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.519 hybridize, right? They can reproduce with other 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:22.740 similar species of oaks. And so that's where 00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:26.360 it becomes really important to be able to find 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:29.279 those hybrids because sometimes that is a sign 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:31.919 that you're seeing the next branch of evolution, 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:36.500 the next branch of adapting to maybe a changing 00:14:36.500 --> 00:14:39.799 environment around them. That's right. So, all 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:42.970 right. As challenging as it is to go out there 00:14:42.970 --> 00:14:45.269 and identify these oak species when all of this 00:14:45.269 --> 00:14:48.309 hybridization is taking place, it's crucial to 00:14:48.309 --> 00:14:51.330 do it because then you're starting to watch evolution 00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:55.029 happen in real time -ish. And one of our former 00:14:55.029 --> 00:14:57.929 stewards, Wendy Herneman, did her master's thesis 00:14:57.929 --> 00:15:02.490 on a group of oaks and their hybrids here on 00:15:02.490 --> 00:15:05.250 the preserve. And a former student of mine... 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:07.879 Perlaad Popper, who was working on his PhD at 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.899 Berkeley at the time, under David Ackerley, did 00:15:11.899 --> 00:15:15.279 the genetic work for her, did the gels and all 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.080 that that you need to do, and was able to confirm, 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.580 which not only that they were hybrids, but were 00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:24.200 most of the genes. from the different other oaks 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:27.320 had come from oh incredible so just today as 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:30.419 you know david ackerley is here which i didn't 00:15:30.419 --> 00:15:31.860 know he was going to be and the last thing he 00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:34.419 asked me before i came in here was do you have 00:15:34.419 --> 00:15:36.940 wendy's thesis because i need to know which trees 00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:42.139 are the markers that she used for those oh that's 00:15:42.139 --> 00:15:45.399 so great so that really shows how oak research 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:49.299 keeps, like it feeds the next bout of research, 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.440 right? We have this ongoing research going with 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.960 David Ackerley's big forest plots. And as each 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:59.019 new study comes in, we refer back to it. We learn 00:15:59.019 --> 00:16:02.840 from it. I love that. That really shows how the 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:05.799 research works and is like this ongoing process. 00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:08.779 Why is it important to understand and support 00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:11.419 oaks? I mean, we talked a little bit about some 00:16:11.419 --> 00:16:14.799 of their, you know, their human uses. And we 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.419 said that They're very biodiverse. But why is 00:16:18.419 --> 00:16:22.019 that important? How do oaks help support local 00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:25.059 ecology? I would say, although it's, I think, 00:16:25.059 --> 00:16:28.419 a slightly overused term, that oaks would be 00:16:28.419 --> 00:16:34.039 a keystone species. Because a keystone species, 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.659 like a keystone in an arch, is the stone that 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.059 holds the thing together. And a keystone species 00:16:41.059 --> 00:16:44.179 is a species that, if it was not there, the whole 00:16:44.179 --> 00:16:47.159 nature of the... landscape would be different 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.340 and not only the landscape I mean they've contributed 00:16:50.340 --> 00:16:53.419 to the soil development as well as the biodiversity 00:16:53.419 --> 00:16:59.799 of organisms that live there and if it was removed 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.639 as it often is unfortunately for agriculture 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:06.599 and so forth then the whole biodiversity changes 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:09.240 one of the things that they've noticed this was 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.599 years ago in the Napa Valley which has a much 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:17.190 longer history of trying to do vineyards and 00:17:17.190 --> 00:17:19.670 so forth in the midst of oaks is if they left 00:17:19.670 --> 00:17:22.549 a few oaks in their vineyard they had a much 00:17:22.549 --> 00:17:25.630 lower pest problem. Because the insects that 00:17:25.630 --> 00:17:27.910 could eat the pests, if you take out the oaks, 00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:30.710 no longer come there. Right. They need to be 00:17:30.710 --> 00:17:33.630 sustained by these native species and therefore 00:17:33.630 --> 00:17:37.670 do a lot of that agricultural work for the farmers. 00:17:37.730 --> 00:17:40.289 That's right. That's incredible. All right. That's 00:17:40.289 --> 00:17:41.890 a wonderful example of how that's important. 00:17:42.029 --> 00:17:45.490 And maybe a show of how sometimes terms like 00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:47.690 keystone species that we do, we throw out real, 00:17:47.730 --> 00:17:50.710 real easily. And we hear a lot. But there's a 00:17:50.710 --> 00:17:54.019 reason why these things... remain in our understanding 00:17:54.019 --> 00:17:57.000 right it's like it we have to talk about keystone 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:00.700 species because it's so significant um who are 00:18:00.700 --> 00:18:02.680 some of the other oaks that are found here at 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:06.839 pepperwood well we have uh you can divide oaks 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:09.240 into three categories here in the united states 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:10.940 if you go around the world there are actually 00:18:10.940 --> 00:18:14.400 five what we technically call sub genera of the 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.460 genus quercus and we have three represented here 00:18:17.460 --> 00:18:21.109 and throughout california the red oaks the white 00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:23.589 oaks and what we call, for lack of a better term, 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:27.109 intermediate oaks. Fair enough. And we have one 00:18:27.109 --> 00:18:31.170 intermediate oak, the canyon oak, Quercus chrysolopus. 00:18:31.769 --> 00:18:35.730 We have several white oaks. We have valley oak, 00:18:35.930 --> 00:18:39.769 Oregon oak, blue oak, and then two shrubs, leather 00:18:39.769 --> 00:18:43.549 oak and... California holly oak or California 00:18:43.549 --> 00:18:46.430 scrub oak. And then among the red oaks, we have 00:18:46.430 --> 00:18:50.509 the California black oak, which I know the coloration 00:18:50.509 --> 00:18:54.450 gets weird. California black oak and the two 00:18:54.450 --> 00:18:57.430 live oaks, the coast live oak and the interior 00:18:57.430 --> 00:18:59.839 live oak. Right. And they're all here. Okay. 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:02.480 Some are not real common, like interior live 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.299 oak. There are just two or three places where 00:19:04.299 --> 00:19:06.180 I know where you'll find them. Is that another 00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:09.299 situation where we're kind of close to the edge 00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:11.700 of their range? Yes, yes. It's a little too wet. 00:19:12.170 --> 00:19:15.230 Ah, okay. But a few of them managed to persist. 00:19:15.470 --> 00:19:18.650 The interior is the live oak that kind of forms 00:19:18.650 --> 00:19:21.009 a bathtub ring around the Central Valley along 00:19:21.009 --> 00:19:22.910 with blue oak. Interesting. It's the live oak 00:19:22.910 --> 00:19:24.809 over there. But here, of course, our dominant 00:19:24.809 --> 00:19:27.710 one is the coast live oak. Gotcha. Okay. That's 00:19:27.710 --> 00:19:31.190 an interesting sort of overlap of a lot of different 00:19:31.190 --> 00:19:35.349 ranges of oaks. So that makes this a really interesting 00:19:35.349 --> 00:19:38.250 little postage stamp of all of these different 00:19:38.250 --> 00:19:39.430 oaks coming from different places. Because of 00:19:39.430 --> 00:19:41.309 the size of the preserve, the eastern preserve. 00:19:41.849 --> 00:19:45.470 has got blue oak. Right. The western part of 00:19:45.470 --> 00:19:47.890 the preserve doesn't. Right. That's where the 00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:50.170 nice Oregon oak stands are. So we're like on 00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:52.670 the border of where blue oaks are. That's so 00:19:52.670 --> 00:19:56.509 interesting. Well, what a fun... It makes sense 00:19:56.509 --> 00:19:59.329 to me now why Pepperwood itself is such a great 00:19:59.329 --> 00:20:02.210 living laboratory because we're right here on 00:20:02.210 --> 00:20:05.980 all these changes. Among the many benefits of 00:20:05.980 --> 00:20:08.240 having Steve as a key member of the Pepperwood 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.960 staff and community is that he introduced his 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:15.140 wife and partner Linda to Pepperwood. The fact 00:20:15.140 --> 00:20:17.140 that she fell in love with Pepperwood and went 00:20:17.140 --> 00:20:19.720 on to contribute her skills and passion to the 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.180 Landon community here is an incredible blessing 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:26.859 that keeps on giving. met Pepperwood through 00:20:26.859 --> 00:20:30.880 my husband around 2005. And I would hear him 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.859 come home and talk about this place called Pepperwood. 00:20:34.059 --> 00:20:41.279 And then he became more involved in it. And then 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.619 we would drive up and I would see the excavation 00:20:44.619 --> 00:20:48.720 of all sorts of things going on. So that's when 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.960 I was introduced to this place called Pepperwood. 00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:55.380 One of the coolest things about Linda is that 00:20:55.380 --> 00:20:58.339 she was among the first class of Pepperwood stewards. 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:01.779 Back in our very first episode, we talked to 00:21:01.779 --> 00:21:04.440 Gary Morgritt about his experiences as a Pepperwood 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.180 steward, including the naturalist classes that 00:21:07.180 --> 00:21:09.279 he took as a part of joining the stewards community. 00:21:10.220 --> 00:21:12.599 When Gary went through the process around 2014, 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.880 it was a two -class series taught as a partnership 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.180 between Pepperwood and the Santa Rosa Junior 00:21:18.180 --> 00:21:21.480 College. But years before that, Linda experienced 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.279 the first incarnation of Pepperwood's steward 00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:26.980 training program. And she and Steve can give 00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:30.039 us firsthand accounts of how it began and how 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:33.839 it became what it is today. I heard about a stewardship 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.980 program that was going to start. And it was started 00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:40.839 by Steve and Sean Brumbaugh and Nick Annis. And 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:43.759 they met every Saturday at Pepperwood. And I 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:46.420 wanted to be involved in that. And it was such 00:21:46.420 --> 00:21:50.390 a wonderful outdoor learning experience. And 00:21:50.390 --> 00:21:53.369 so I participated in that. And at the end of 00:21:53.369 --> 00:21:58.509 that year, from 2006 to 2007, we received a lovely 00:21:58.509 --> 00:22:03.019 little cup, yes, and a T -shirt. And I just thought 00:22:03.019 --> 00:22:04.500 that was the greatest thing in the whole world. 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:09.519 I think the Pepperwood swag as part of the reward 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:12.940 for joining our steward program is like obviously 00:22:12.940 --> 00:22:16.240 a longstanding tradition. Now it's the best we 00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:19.220 ever made. But that T -shirt and mug, that was 00:22:19.220 --> 00:22:21.200 where it started. That was where it started. 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:26.099 And we just so appreciated these men. And not 00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:28.119 only that, but we had those special speakers 00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:31.759 to come, all sorts of people to teach us. about 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.819 various things in nature. Yeah, so you started, 00:22:34.940 --> 00:22:37.779 the Stewards Program started with sort of its 00:22:37.779 --> 00:22:40.279 own dedicated class. That's right. And it has 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:43.000 sort of transitioned over the years. It was a 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.779 JC class for a period of time. Well, it became 00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:51.240 a JC class shortly thereafter. And then Adina 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.400 Marenlender with UC Extension was putting together 00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:59.039 plans to develop a California naturalist program. 00:22:59.980 --> 00:23:02.099 And she came to us because we were already doing 00:23:02.099 --> 00:23:05.039 something similar to what she had in mind. And 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:09.680 so the actual piloting of that, what is now a 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:12.619 statewide program, started here. And the first 00:23:12.619 --> 00:23:15.519 Cal Naturalist class, which Linda was a part 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:20.220 of, graduated in the spring of 2010. Yes. Would 00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:22.400 you say, and Linda, you can probably speak to 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:24.900 this better than anyone other than Steve here. 00:23:26.029 --> 00:23:29.809 How similar was that first pilot program of Cal 00:23:29.809 --> 00:23:33.029 Naturalist to the class that you had taken that 00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:35.750 was just developed as part of the Stewards Program? 00:23:36.089 --> 00:23:38.430 Did they borrow from each other, or was there 00:23:38.430 --> 00:23:41.430 a big change there? There was a big change. We 00:23:41.430 --> 00:23:44.670 went to the college and listened to special speakers. 00:23:44.849 --> 00:23:47.430 Then we would come out here. On Saturdays. On 00:23:47.430 --> 00:23:52.150 Saturdays for another type of class and learning 00:23:52.150 --> 00:23:54.930 experience. It was different in its own way. 00:23:55.529 --> 00:24:01.210 The first one from 06 -07 was just kind of roughing 00:24:01.210 --> 00:24:06.970 it out from 2009 to 2010. That was the real deal. 00:24:07.089 --> 00:24:09.950 I mean, we just really got a good immersion into 00:24:09.950 --> 00:24:14.210 nature. And so it was wonderful. Great. So that 00:24:14.210 --> 00:24:16.589 originally, that original class was more like 00:24:16.589 --> 00:24:18.930 get to know the property and like sort of learn 00:24:18.930 --> 00:24:21.289 by doing and walking around. But then the Cal 00:24:21.289 --> 00:24:23.329 Naturalist program really kicked it up a notch, 00:24:23.470 --> 00:24:26.450 it sounds like. Although Sean and Nick Annis 00:24:26.450 --> 00:24:29.470 and Steve, they brought very interesting things. 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:32.950 And they even brought up... interesting people 00:24:32.950 --> 00:24:35.690 to talk with us and take us out on the preserve 00:24:35.690 --> 00:24:39.130 to the pond and what have you to learn various 00:24:39.130 --> 00:24:43.569 things. Great. And we had developed the Pepperwood 00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:47.230 class at the junior college, which was eight 00:24:47.230 --> 00:24:50.710 weeks in the fall on the physical sciences and 00:24:50.710 --> 00:24:53.190 eight weeks in the spring on the biological sciences. 00:24:53.450 --> 00:24:57.089 Wow. So it was a 16 -week course over a full 00:24:57.089 --> 00:25:00.369 year. And of course, that's not what Cal Naturalist 00:25:00.369 --> 00:25:02.869 turned out to be, but for the first few years 00:25:02.869 --> 00:25:05.549 that Cal Naturalist was offered, they let us 00:25:05.549 --> 00:25:09.750 use that format. And there was one other college 00:25:09.750 --> 00:25:11.849 in the state that eventually developed that, 00:25:11.910 --> 00:25:14.390 and that was Pasadena City College. But other 00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:17.180 than that, they all went to the 40 -hour. however 00:25:17.180 --> 00:25:19.440 you want to put it together format. Right, right. 00:25:19.500 --> 00:25:21.559 And that's how they do it here now, of course, 00:25:21.579 --> 00:25:23.779 too. Absolutely, absolutely. And we have not 00:25:23.779 --> 00:25:26.339 only the Cal Naturalist, but we also have that 00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:29.900 Climate Stewards, similar program in terms of 00:25:29.900 --> 00:25:32.700 its formatting, but the content's very different. 00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:35.299 But both of those certification programs through 00:25:35.299 --> 00:25:37.960 the UC are just so great. They are. Yes. Wonderful. 00:25:38.730 --> 00:25:41.630 There are a few of the original Pepperwood stewards, 00:25:41.950 --> 00:25:44.430 Linda's compatriots from that original class, 00:25:44.630 --> 00:25:47.269 who are still active at Pepperwood and who I 00:25:47.269 --> 00:25:49.930 hope to feature on future episodes. And Steve 00:25:49.930 --> 00:25:52.390 was kind enough to mention one of them while 00:25:52.390 --> 00:25:55.089 we were on the subject. There's a fellow that 00:25:55.089 --> 00:25:58.309 I would like to acknowledge, and that's Nelson 00:25:58.309 --> 00:26:03.609 Weller. Nelson Weller was in that first Cal Naturalist 00:26:03.609 --> 00:26:08.380 class. He's an older gentleman. But he has always 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:11.579 had a real love for learning. And he loved the 00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:14.460 class. And he loved the class so much that he's 00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:17.220 the one that put up the matching funds. Back 00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:20.920 in the beginning, you could have a part of this 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:24.420 Dwight Center named for you for a certain amount. 00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:27.680 Like the Conte Court is named because Conte gave 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:31.619 a million bucks. There you go. So Nelson said, 00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:34.619 I want to name the herbarium after Steve Barnhart. 00:26:34.779 --> 00:26:39.140 Aw. But beyond that, I mean, he did, and we got 00:26:39.140 --> 00:26:42.440 matching funds, and it happened. But he has just 00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:46.480 been so interested in the other part that came 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:48.339 with the funding, and that is we have what is 00:26:48.339 --> 00:26:51.190 called a Barnhart internship. through the junior 00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:54.329 college. And he is always asking about how the 00:26:54.329 --> 00:26:57.549 interns are doing and do they like what they're 00:26:57.549 --> 00:26:59.670 doing? And are they learning to be good biologists? 00:26:59.670 --> 00:27:02.170 From what I've heard, yes, yes, yes. That's what 00:27:02.170 --> 00:27:04.650 I tell him. But I just want everybody to know 00:27:04.650 --> 00:27:06.950 who hears this, that he is very much, even though 00:27:06.950 --> 00:27:09.829 he's probably in his 90s now, very engaged with 00:27:09.829 --> 00:27:12.990 what goes on up here. Well, we should all live 00:27:12.990 --> 00:27:15.390 that path if we can. That sounds incredible. 00:27:16.750 --> 00:27:19.549 I love hearing about the many different paths 00:27:19.549 --> 00:27:22.490 that folks take as Pepperwood stewards. And Linda 00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:24.990 was kind enough to share about some of the multitude 00:27:24.990 --> 00:27:27.630 of projects that she has contributed to over 00:27:27.630 --> 00:27:32.039 these past two decades. Being a steward, it affords 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:34.640 you many opportunities, and I'm thinking in terms 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.859 of one of the very first things, along with my 00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:41.200 learning experiences, was with Juliette, and 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.000 she and I cleaned the Bechtel house. I mean, 00:27:44.059 --> 00:27:45.700 we just cleaned and cleaned and cleaned. Oh, 00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:47.380 it was awful. It was awful. Wow. Well, I mean, 00:27:47.380 --> 00:27:50.480 that house has been there for... many decades. 00:27:50.500 --> 00:27:55.720 I can imagine it coming to a point where it needed 00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:58.680 the most deep cleaning imaginable. So she and 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:04.579 I took on the task. But also my stewardship has 00:28:04.579 --> 00:28:08.500 afforded me the opportunity to be proctoring 00:28:08.500 --> 00:28:13.980 of community education classes. and that inquires 00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:17.039 a list of things that one, as a steward, needs 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:20.200 to be aware of. It afforded me the opportunity 00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:23.460 to do herbarium work, like labeling and pressing 00:28:23.460 --> 00:28:26.859 and freezing and rotation, cataloging in the 00:28:26.859 --> 00:28:33.380 cabinets, planting and collecting. We also developed 00:28:33.380 --> 00:28:38.220 pitchers for the herbarium. The herbarium was 00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:41.640 named after Steve Barnhart in honor of him. So 00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:45.160 I had a big picture because I'd seen it one place 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.700 at a university in their herbarium. And I thought, 00:28:48.740 --> 00:28:50.640 well, why couldn't we do it here at Pepperwood? 00:28:50.779 --> 00:28:54.000 So I put his big picture up there and lots of 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.819 beautiful pictures. So that was a wonderful project 00:28:57.819 --> 00:29:02.099 in itself. I've been a greeter for many public 00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:08.500 lectures. We also created a little pamphlet. 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.599 for the herbarium that explained what an herbarium 00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:16.779 was. Why is it important? Why collect these seeds? 00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:19.579 Why collect these and squash these flowers and 00:29:19.579 --> 00:29:23.440 what have you? And 2017, I just thought it important 00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.259 with all the picture -taking I did of many, many 00:29:27.259 --> 00:29:30.359 beautiful flowers that I should get these things 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:35.000 organized. And I had one man say to me on a walk, 00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:37.759 he said, wouldn't it be nice to have a flower 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:42.009 garden? Bingo! I just said to myself, I know 00:29:42.009 --> 00:29:44.890 what my next project's going to be. So that's 00:29:44.890 --> 00:29:48.630 created a flower guide for beginners. That's 00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:52.170 for beginners. But I have been told that a lot 00:29:52.170 --> 00:29:55.250 of people like it. And it can be used any place 00:29:55.250 --> 00:29:58.769 in Sonoma County because these flowers are just 00:29:58.769 --> 00:30:01.710 a lot of places. That's wonderful. I use your 00:30:01.710 --> 00:30:04.529 flower guide every year. And part of that is 00:30:04.529 --> 00:30:06.539 because maybe I'm... Never going to stop being 00:30:06.539 --> 00:30:09.359 a beginner. But I do think it's an incredibly 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:11.920 accessible guide. It's really the way you've 00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:14.799 put it together based on the flower color. Because 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:17.140 as you're going out there and having these springtime 00:30:17.140 --> 00:30:21.359 flower excursions, that might be as much as you 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:24.140 can tell about a flower as a first, you know, 00:30:24.140 --> 00:30:26.559 botanist. That's right. Absolutely. So it gets 00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:28.680 you started down that path. It gets you started. 00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:31.880 It just gets you started, and that's wonderful. 00:30:32.299 --> 00:30:35.200 And, you know, I just thought it would be so 00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:39.809 wonderful for our children to come up here. our 00:30:39.809 --> 00:30:42.670 people that attend classes, to have something 00:30:42.670 --> 00:30:46.029 to take away with them. So I created a bookmark, 00:30:46.130 --> 00:30:50.450 and on the back of it, it tells about our website, 00:30:50.569 --> 00:30:54.390 where to go, a little more information that they 00:30:54.390 --> 00:30:58.490 can take that home. It's not only for their nature 00:30:58.490 --> 00:31:02.150 book, and I would think so many that come up 00:31:02.150 --> 00:31:04.930 here at least have a nature book. I hope so. 00:31:05.109 --> 00:31:08.309 If not before, then after. I hope they all go 00:31:08.309 --> 00:31:13.329 out and get one. And so it's so fun to see adults 00:31:13.329 --> 00:31:16.970 and children and other learning individuals to 00:31:16.970 --> 00:31:19.410 just take one home with them. Yeah, and just 00:31:19.410 --> 00:31:21.450 have that little reminder of, hey, Pepperwood 00:31:21.450 --> 00:31:23.369 is here and it's a place you can come up and 00:31:23.369 --> 00:31:25.990 visit. That's wonderful. Well, your work as a 00:31:25.990 --> 00:31:27.789 steward, I mean, really sounds like it has run 00:31:27.789 --> 00:31:30.769 the gamut. You are in the herbarium doing documentation 00:31:30.769 --> 00:31:34.910 and organization of these species so the herbarium 00:31:34.910 --> 00:31:37.630 has samples from all kinds of different plants. 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.180 And you are also using your people skills, right? 00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:42.900 You're greeting people at events and helping 00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:45.140 them get organized. And then you're just using 00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:48.900 elbow grease, just getting our facilities up 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:50.859 to snuff, you know, cleaning that Bechtel house. 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:53.380 It just takes all kinds of different skills, 00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:55.180 right? That's right. Whether you want to be with 00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:56.880 other people or whether you just want to be with 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.180 yourself. That's right. If you have skills that 00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:02.359 go across the board in many different directions, 00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:05.440 all the better. But if you don't, we can use 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:10.059 all sorts of wonderful skills. It is just amazing 00:32:10.059 --> 00:32:16.220 to see the talents of so many people. Just amazing. 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:19.960 I mean, that whole community is required to really 00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:22.740 make Pepperwood thrive. It takes a community, 00:32:23.059 --> 00:32:27.420 absolutely. It's so important to know that you 00:32:27.420 --> 00:32:30.319 don't have to be an oak researcher like Steve 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:33.519 to contribute meaningfully to conservation and 00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:36.769 stewardship. Almost any skill or interest you 00:32:36.769 --> 00:32:38.849 have can strengthen the Pepperwood community 00:32:38.849 --> 00:32:42.109 and enhance its mission to inspire conservation 00:32:42.109 --> 00:32:45.869 through science. Linda's love for this land and 00:32:45.869 --> 00:32:48.470 community shine through in everything she says 00:32:48.470 --> 00:32:51.150 and does, and she is such a valuable part of 00:32:51.150 --> 00:32:53.609 Pepperwood. Her contributions can be seen and 00:32:53.609 --> 00:32:57.849 felt everywhere, and so could yours. The current 00:32:57.849 --> 00:33:00.410 form of our stewards training course, the UC 00:33:00.410 --> 00:33:02.970 Environmental Stewards Certification Programs, 00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:07.079 run every year from January to March. At the 00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:09.839 time this episode is released, the upcoming course 00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:13.119 is the California Naturalist Certification, starting 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:17.420 in January 2026, and we alternate that every 00:33:17.420 --> 00:33:20.000 other year with the Climate Stewards Certification. 00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:23.599 Either of those are wonderful, interesting experiences 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:26.940 that will open your eyes to new ideas and function 00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:29.480 as the perfect introduction into the Pepperwood 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.190 community. And don't forget that you can come 00:33:32.190 --> 00:33:34.789 up and join us any month of the year at our monthly 00:33:34.789 --> 00:33:37.269 volunteer workdays on the first Saturday of each 00:33:37.269 --> 00:33:41.069 month. Steve and Linda have contributed so much 00:33:41.069 --> 00:33:43.950 over the past 20 years, and it sounds like they 00:33:43.950 --> 00:33:46.230 have received some valuable experiences back 00:33:46.230 --> 00:33:48.430 from this community that they have helped to 00:33:48.430 --> 00:33:51.690 form. For me, and probably for my wife as well, 00:33:51.829 --> 00:33:54.509 we just really feel like this is our second home. 00:33:55.130 --> 00:33:58.809 We've been here a lot. We've seen a lot of changes. 00:33:59.089 --> 00:34:02.490 We've gotten to know the people. We really love 00:34:02.490 --> 00:34:04.349 the folks who are here. They're just wonderful 00:34:04.349 --> 00:34:07.750 folks, including you. Oh, gee, I'm blushing over 00:34:07.750 --> 00:34:10.150 here. We are very, very fortunate to have such 00:34:10.150 --> 00:34:13.789 a wonderful staff. And when I think back to the 00:34:13.789 --> 00:34:15.769 fact there was Michael and I, and then there 00:34:15.769 --> 00:34:17.530 was Michael and I and Margaret, and then there 00:34:17.530 --> 00:34:21.250 was Michael and I and Margaret, and who was the 00:34:21.250 --> 00:34:23.389 next one? Well, it wasn't long before we had 00:34:23.389 --> 00:34:25.539 Lisa. Oh, right, yeah. The executive director. 00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:27.900 We finally realized we were getting too busy 00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:30.539 to not have an executive director. Somebody's 00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:33.300 got to drive this train. That's right. And then 00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:35.719 Sandy Funke came along, and she took over the 00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:37.619 ed job, and then I went to what is called an 00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:40.340 academic director. And that gave me more time 00:34:40.340 --> 00:34:44.079 to work with the local colleges, particularly 00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:49.119 Davis and Sonoma State and the JC. But we just 00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:51.760 love it here. We just really feel every time 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.610 we drive up that road that this is, This is our 00:34:54.610 --> 00:34:58.210 second home. And we feel volunteerism is very 00:34:58.210 --> 00:35:02.269 important. We're not ready to sit on the couch 00:35:02.269 --> 00:35:05.050 the rest of our days. We want to be out there 00:35:05.050 --> 00:35:08.750 sharing information. And especially my dear husband 00:35:08.750 --> 00:35:12.929 can give a world of information. I can be the 00:35:12.929 --> 00:35:16.349 cheerleader. I can say, yes, let's learn this. 00:35:16.369 --> 00:35:19.590 You're being very humble, Linda. She has a lot 00:35:19.590 --> 00:35:24.110 of information. Absolutely. So that sharing and 00:35:24.110 --> 00:35:28.050 really leading by example so that your grandchildren 00:35:28.050 --> 00:35:31.409 and the other people in the community see that 00:35:31.409 --> 00:35:34.550 it's so important to do that and to share your 00:35:34.550 --> 00:35:36.309 talents, whatever they are. That's right. Well, 00:35:36.369 --> 00:35:41.369 we have 10 grandchildren, and we have pictures 00:35:41.369 --> 00:35:45.010 of Grandma sitting on the ground with the grandchildren 00:35:45.010 --> 00:35:47.429 around with their books, because I got them books 00:35:47.429 --> 00:35:50.429 too, and looking at certain things, whether it 00:35:50.429 --> 00:35:53.380 be a... A pine tree, an oak tree, or what kind 00:35:53.380 --> 00:35:56.320 of whatever. Mushroom. A mushroom, whatever it 00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.159 might be. One of our grandsons decided that after 00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:01.039 he was sitting in the circle with Grandma, and 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:02.940 they were looking at this mushroom and trying 00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:05.550 to identify it. He got so frustrated, he stepped 00:36:05.550 --> 00:36:08.650 on it. Oh, no. You know what? We've all felt 00:36:08.650 --> 00:36:11.309 that way from time to time. I'm sure the mushroom 00:36:11.309 --> 00:36:14.010 was fine in the end, but yeah. Yeah, so we've 00:36:14.010 --> 00:36:17.570 had fun sharing nature with our grandchildren, 00:36:17.809 --> 00:36:20.690 every one of them. Oh, that's beautiful. Well, 00:36:20.849 --> 00:36:23.869 thank you for sharing it with me. Thank you for 00:36:23.869 --> 00:36:25.449 sharing it with us. Thank you for joining me 00:36:25.449 --> 00:36:27.329 today. This has been really fun to hear more 00:36:27.329 --> 00:36:29.710 about your journeys. Well, thank you for having 00:36:29.710 --> 00:36:34.070 us. Thanks again to Steve and Linda Barnhart 00:36:34.070 --> 00:36:37.190 for this conversation and for everything that 00:36:37.190 --> 00:36:39.889 they have done and continue to do for Pepperwood. 00:36:40.090 --> 00:36:43.829 But don't switch off yet. It's time for this 00:36:43.829 --> 00:36:48.150 episode's installment of The Nature Sound Guess 00:36:48.150 --> 00:36:52.329 Who Game. If you're listening along close to 00:36:52.329 --> 00:36:54.550 the time of release, you may have been waiting 00:36:54.550 --> 00:36:57.429 for months to discover the ID of the mystery 00:36:57.429 --> 00:37:00.449 nature sound maker from episode six. So here 00:37:00.449 --> 00:37:03.360 we go. In the Nature Sound Guess Who game, we 00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:05.420 play a nature sound at the end of each episode. 00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:08.659 You have the time in between episodes to guess 00:37:08.659 --> 00:37:12.079 or apply your knowledge or research which animal, 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:15.440 vegetable, or mineral made the sound in question. 00:37:16.190 --> 00:37:19.650 You can email your guesses to podcast at pepperwoodpreserve 00:37:19.650 --> 00:37:22.690 .org or you can comment on the corresponding 00:37:22.690 --> 00:37:25.610 posts on our social media, whether that be our 00:37:25.610 --> 00:37:28.329 Facebook, where we are simply Pepperwood, our 00:37:28.329 --> 00:37:31.110 Instagram, where we are Pepperwood Preserve CA, 00:37:31.389 --> 00:37:36.230 or Blue Sky, Pepperwood Preserve. Let's listen 00:37:36.230 --> 00:37:46.260 back to the sound from last episode. Okay, folks, 00:37:46.420 --> 00:37:53.679 that sound was made by the turkey vulture. Specifically, 00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:57.360 that was the sound of a pair of juvenile turkey 00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.719 vultures, scientific name Cathartes aura, performing 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:03.519 some of the only vocalizations that turkey vultures 00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:06.960 are known to make. The Audubon Society's Pocket 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.320 Guide to Familiar Birds of North America, West 00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:12.460 Edition, tells us that this species is generally 00:38:12.460 --> 00:38:16.079 silent, but will utter soft hisses or groans 00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:19.460 at nest or when disturbed, and that is just what 00:38:19.460 --> 00:38:22.360 we are hearing. Expert sound recordist Andrew 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:25.239 Spencer captured this sound recording and submitted 00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:28.619 it to the Cornell Lab Macaulay Library with a 00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:31.340 note that these were calls from a pair of older 00:38:31.340 --> 00:38:34.860 chicks at a nest in an old barn calling an alarm 00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:38.309 at our presence. The characteristic silence of 00:38:38.309 --> 00:38:41.030 this bird species means that, unlike many other 00:38:41.030 --> 00:38:44.130 birds, researchers and bird enthusiasts are not 00:38:44.130 --> 00:38:46.409 likely to observe turkey vultures using their 00:38:46.409 --> 00:38:49.889 ears. Fortunately, they are easy and common to 00:38:49.889 --> 00:38:53.110 spot using your eyes as they tilt and glide through 00:38:53.110 --> 00:38:56.349 the sky, searching for carrion to clean up, using 00:38:56.349 --> 00:39:00.269 their powerful sense of smell to find food. Thanks 00:39:00.269 --> 00:39:03.309 again to Andrew Spencer and the Cornell Lab Macaulay 00:39:03.309 --> 00:39:06.050 Library for this rare chance to hear the sounds 00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:10.389 that our avian cleanup crew can make. Now, here 00:39:10.389 --> 00:39:12.590 comes a new sound for you to guess between now 00:39:12.590 --> 00:39:16.849 and next episode. Here it comes in three, two, 00:39:17.110 --> 00:39:25.789 one. And here's your second chance in three, 00:39:25.969 --> 00:39:36.460 two, one. another curious challenge to think 00:39:36.460 --> 00:39:38.920 about, and submit your answers to us via social 00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:42.400 media or via email at podcast at pepperwoodpreserve 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:45.980 .org. Until next episode, thank you for listening, 00:39:46.059 --> 00:39:48.619 and don't forget to keep your ears tuned into 00:39:48.619 --> 00:39:48.960 nature.