WEBVTT 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:03.100 This is the Pepperwood Podcast, a production 00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:05.860 of Pepperwood, a nonprofit conservation organization 00:00:05.860 --> 00:00:09.480 based at a 3 ,200 -acre nature reserve near Santa 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:12.119 Rosa, California, in the heart of the traditional 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:15.539 homeland of the Wappo people. At Pepperwood, 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.519 we aim to inspire conservation through science. 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:21.620 And on this show, we talk to scientists, stewards, 00:00:21.940 --> 00:00:24.440 and environmental educators about what they do 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:27.670 and how they do it. We hope to give you a glimpse 00:00:27.670 --> 00:00:30.190 into the real experiences of folks who devote 00:00:30.190 --> 00:00:32.469 their lives to taking care of local ecosystems 00:00:32.469 --> 00:00:37.890 and sharing them with others. Welcome, Pepperwood 00:00:37.890 --> 00:00:40.630 community. Welcome to our first episode of the 00:00:40.630 --> 00:00:44.929 year in 2025. I'm Julianne, environmental educator 00:00:44.929 --> 00:00:47.210 at Pepperwood and your host for this podcast. 00:00:47.850 --> 00:00:50.310 We are starting the new year off with a look 00:00:50.310 --> 00:00:53.109 back at a milestone that Pepperwood experienced 00:00:53.109 --> 00:00:58.270 in 2024. the 30 -year anniversary of Preserve 00:00:58.270 --> 00:01:00.810 Manager Michael Gologly's time at the Reserve, 00:01:01.049 --> 00:01:03.810 an anniversary which took place, and which I 00:01:03.810 --> 00:01:05.950 celebrated with a conversation with Michael, 00:01:06.049 --> 00:01:11.030 back in April of 2024. First, we'll hear from 00:01:11.030 --> 00:01:13.730 Michael about his process of joining Pepperwood 00:01:13.730 --> 00:01:16.430 and a few major events and projects that he has 00:01:16.430 --> 00:01:19.640 seen in his three decades at the Reserve. Then 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:22.480 Michael was excited to discuss an aspect of stewardship 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:25.560 about which he is very passionate, the use of 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:28.200 targeted cattle grazing as a tool for increasing 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:31.439 biodiversity and carbon sequestration, particularly 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:35.319 in grassland habitats. We touched on this a little 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:37.459 in episode four as we talked grasslands with 00:01:37.459 --> 00:01:40.200 Michelle Hauber. Michael presents some of the 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:43.439 context and the process of this practice. His 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:45.859 experience and enthusiasm for the possibilities 00:01:45.859 --> 00:01:48.959 of conservation -minded grazing practices really 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:53.359 shines through. Since this was the very first 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:55.900 conversation we recorded for this podcast project, 00:01:56.219 --> 00:01:58.780 we were using different equipment and, consequently, 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:03.560 the conversation sounds a bit different. To prioritize 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:05.980 Michael's thoughts and messages, I'm going to 00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:08.219 present a series of vignettes from our conversation. 00:02:08.780 --> 00:02:11.379 We'll go back and forth between a bit of context 00:02:11.379 --> 00:02:14.280 from me and Michael's invaluable stories and 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.020 perspectives. Thanks for following us through 00:02:17.020 --> 00:02:19.479 this conversational journey, my friends. I feel 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:21.560 pretty confident that you're going to enjoy it. 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:26.939 Now, where shall we start? How about the beginning? 00:02:27.460 --> 00:02:31.139 My first question for Michael was, what led him 00:02:31.139 --> 00:02:33.599 to begin his work in conservation and preserve 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:36.800 management? What was he doing before he began 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:40.900 his time at Pepperwood? Well, you know, I was 00:02:40.900 --> 00:02:45.919 really liking the idea of having a real positive 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:48.840 impact on a landscape and just a positive impact 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:54.879 in my life. I had done a lot of political organizing 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:58.659 in my life, working on campaigns and trying to 00:02:58.659 --> 00:03:02.360 get initiatives passed and trying to make change 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:05.860 that way. And while we did some good work, it 00:03:05.860 --> 00:03:09.819 was always a struggle. And, you know, two steps 00:03:09.819 --> 00:03:12.860 forward, one step back kind of things. And working 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:15.479 on political campaigns where the candidate didn't 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.259 win. And you put a whole lot of effort and time 00:03:17.259 --> 00:03:20.360 into these things. And there was always that, 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:24.500 I don't know, controversial side of, you know, 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:30.000 back and forth. And so I really look forward 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:34.479 to the idea of... working on a piece of land 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:36.740 where the effort that you put into it, you see 00:03:36.740 --> 00:03:38.580 the results of. It's one of the reasons that 00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:40.960 I liked construction and carpentry and that is 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:43.199 that you do something and you can stand back 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.800 and see what you built. And I was able to take 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:50.080 that concept into land stewardship. And, you 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:55.379 know, we've pretty much really knocked back Yellow 00:03:55.379 --> 00:03:57.539 Star Thistle, so it's hard to find here now. 00:03:57.740 --> 00:04:00.900 And, you know, we've had lots of really strong 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.080 impacts whereas wildlife is really benefiting 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:07.639 you know bears have come back in a big way the 00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:12.879 mountain lion population and we've worked really 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:17.680 hard at removing invasive species and trying 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:20.519 to make our forests more healthy by doing forest 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:24.079 thinning and prescribed fire and so it's just 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:27.480 great to be able to put effort into something 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.480 and see the results from it and really end up 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:34.660 with a healthier environment as a result. What 00:04:34.660 --> 00:04:37.259 a reward. Yeah, those tangible results. That 00:04:37.259 --> 00:04:39.620 sounds wonderful. It's been an honor to do this 00:04:39.620 --> 00:04:41.980 kind of work. You know, it's like, what a great 00:04:41.980 --> 00:04:45.800 job where you can go out every day and work with 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:49.139 a piece of land, work with great people and accomplish 00:04:49.139 --> 00:04:52.680 something that's really good for everybody. Next, 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:56.040 we dive into the story of how Michael found Pepperwood 00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:58.879 as his professional and personal home of 30 years 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:03.259 and beyond. This was back in 1994, when the reserve 00:05:03.259 --> 00:05:05.500 was owned and managed by the California Academy 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:09.959 of Sciences. My wife actually saw an announcement 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:14.800 of this position at the academy. bulletin board 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:18.660 and we both looked forward to the idea of getting 00:05:18.660 --> 00:05:21.240 out of the East Bay where we were living at the 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:25.639 time and so I applied for the position which 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:28.199 at the time was a house to live in in exchange 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:34.019 for 40 hours of work a month so it was a good 00:05:34.019 --> 00:05:36.360 fit because they were looking for somebody who 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:40.139 had experience you know fixing things I'm a carpenter 00:05:40.139 --> 00:05:44.100 plumbing plumber electric electrician and but 00:05:44.100 --> 00:05:46.160 i also have a degree in biology and led lots 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:49.199 of trips and so it was a nice mix of having some 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:51.439 real practical skills along with having some 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:55.300 education background as well so it was a good 00:05:55.300 --> 00:05:59.680 match and we moved to the garrison canyon at 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:03.100 pepperwood which is a little 700 square foot 00:06:03.420 --> 00:06:06.699 cabin that hadn't had any work done on it for 00:06:06.699 --> 00:06:09.560 a long long time so my first job was just to 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:13.680 bring it up to a livable place we knocked the 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:18.720 crumbling old fireplace down and put in a hearth 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:21.480 and a wood stove and put in some skylights and 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:24.019 a new roof on it and remodeled the kitchen and 00:06:24.019 --> 00:06:26.740 the bathroom and all to make it so it was a little 00:06:26.740 --> 00:06:30.560 bit more livable so you know soon after April 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:34.180 of 94, I started doing other projects here. So 00:06:34.180 --> 00:06:38.439 road maintenance, you know, we put fencing around 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:42.519 some of the sensitive wetlands at Pepperwood 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:44.959 because we were still doing cattle grazing and 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:47.279 wanted to be able to control the cattle a little 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:52.480 bit better. So did invasive weed work and just 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:54.759 fixed things as they broke, replaced toilets 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:57.759 and, you know, fixed the refrigerator and, you 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:02.009 know, all those. myriad of things that it takes 00:07:02.009 --> 00:07:05.649 to keep a place running. A few decades down the 00:07:05.649 --> 00:07:08.629 road, Michael and his family were living at Pepperwood 00:07:08.629 --> 00:07:13.009 when the 2017 Tubbs fire impacted over 90 % of 00:07:13.009 --> 00:07:15.370 the reserve, and the house that they were living 00:07:15.370 --> 00:07:18.889 in was destroyed during that event. Michael shared 00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:21.550 some of the ecological details of that event 00:07:21.550 --> 00:07:24.689 and some lessons that we as a community can learn 00:07:24.689 --> 00:07:27.430 from the catastrophic wildfires of the past decade. 00:07:28.490 --> 00:07:30.649 I mean, for the most part, the Tubbs fire was 00:07:30.649 --> 00:07:33.470 really beneficial if you look at it as an ecological 00:07:33.470 --> 00:07:38.129 event, you know. The fire burnt through the southern 00:07:38.129 --> 00:07:40.910 part of the preserve very intensely the first 00:07:40.910 --> 00:07:45.189 night, being really wind -driven. And particularly 00:07:45.189 --> 00:07:48.709 our Douglas fir forest took it pretty hard. Lots 00:07:48.709 --> 00:07:53.689 of tree mortality from that. The fire killed 00:07:53.689 --> 00:07:57.689 the trees. And Douglas firs aren't very good 00:07:57.689 --> 00:08:01.879 at... um resisting fire as compared to oaks that 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:06.459 have a much denser and thicker bark so they've 00:08:06.459 --> 00:08:09.319 evolved to to do pretty well with fire whereas 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:13.319 douglas firs have evolved to have those seeds 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.339 in the ground and they after a fire they rejuvenate 00:08:16.339 --> 00:08:21.040 that way right so the the trees get killed but 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:23.699 the plant has evolved to come back from it whereas 00:08:23.699 --> 00:08:27.560 the oaks can can survive more So after the first 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:30.540 night, the fire then moved north across the 3 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:33.620 ,000 acres of the preserve, and it burnt more 00:08:33.620 --> 00:08:38.720 as an understory fire and really benefited the 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:42.059 environment by clearing out a lot of that fuel 00:08:42.059 --> 00:08:45.799 and giving other plants an opportunity to express 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:48.860 themselves. I think we found, I'm forgetting 00:08:48.860 --> 00:08:52.179 now, seven, eight. new species of plants that 00:08:52.179 --> 00:08:54.519 we've never seen before here. Incredible. And 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:56.759 Pepperwood's really well studied. If it's here, 00:08:56.820 --> 00:08:59.139 we usually know about it. And so to find some 00:08:59.139 --> 00:09:02.179 new plants, fire followers, they're called, that 00:09:02.179 --> 00:09:04.460 need that heat and the smoke and the chemical 00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:07.059 reaction in order for their seeds to germinate. 00:09:07.139 --> 00:09:09.259 They're sitting there in the soil from probably 00:09:09.259 --> 00:09:13.500 1964 when the Hanley fire came and sitting there 00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:16.279 all this time. And then with the fire, they rejuvenated 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.120 that way. It's the people systems that didn't 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:23.639 do very good with wildfire. People lost their 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:27.039 lives, and lots of houses got burned down, including 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:31.759 my own. And that's the thing that I think is 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:33.799 the real lesson that we're all learning, is that 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:41.679 we live in a fire -adapted area, and fires are 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:44.330 going to keep happening. And apparently with 00:09:44.330 --> 00:09:45.870 climate change, they're going to be happening 00:09:45.870 --> 00:09:48.690 more and more intensely is what we're learning. 00:09:49.169 --> 00:09:53.590 And so the people systems need to adapt like 00:09:53.590 --> 00:09:59.370 the wild systems have. Wildlife did pretty well 00:09:59.370 --> 00:10:02.690 through the fire and vegetation has evolved with 00:10:02.690 --> 00:10:06.720 fire. It works pretty well. People need to evolve 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:09.679 with fire as well. So we need to be thinking 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:12.379 about where we build our houses, what we build 00:10:12.379 --> 00:10:15.700 them out of, how we manage the vegetation around 00:10:15.700 --> 00:10:20.799 them, having emergency response, people being 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:24.679 funded and trained so they know what to do in 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:27.700 an emergency, having escape routes to be able 00:10:27.700 --> 00:10:32.100 to... Get out from your house and get away to 00:10:32.100 --> 00:10:34.480 be safe. You know, all those things are things 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:36.480 that we have to be thinking a lot more about 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:40.700 so that we can be smart about that. Yeah, we 00:10:40.700 --> 00:10:43.320 live here. Fire's going to happen. So let's be 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:48.100 prepared for it next time. A fairly recent project 00:10:48.100 --> 00:10:50.759 that I was curious about was the Bechtel House 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:53.879 remote grid, part of PG &E's solar pilot project 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:55.980 that was launched at Pepperwood's Bechtel House 00:10:55.980 --> 00:10:59.950 in September of 2023. I asked Michael to explain 00:10:59.950 --> 00:11:03.850 that project's genesis and implications. Yeah, 00:11:03.909 --> 00:11:06.570 PG &E came to us and said, we have this pilot 00:11:06.570 --> 00:11:10.210 program that we're interested in starting. They 00:11:10.210 --> 00:11:12.409 had done one of these in the Sierras and they 00:11:12.409 --> 00:11:15.570 were interested in pursuing it more. And the 00:11:15.570 --> 00:11:21.450 idea behind it is to... create these microgrids, 00:11:21.450 --> 00:11:24.210 so providing power for a house or a group of 00:11:24.210 --> 00:11:28.250 houses, and then being able to remove the power 00:11:28.250 --> 00:11:31.169 lines that run to those houses. So power lines 00:11:31.169 --> 00:11:35.149 being a risk of starting wildfires, and PG &E 00:11:35.149 --> 00:11:37.389 has to insure them, and they have to do maintenance 00:11:37.389 --> 00:11:39.610 on them, and they have to do the vegetation management. 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:43.570 And so the question was, can we create these 00:11:43.570 --> 00:11:47.740 microgrids? give the electrical power that buildings 00:11:47.740 --> 00:11:51.840 need or people want and get rid of the power 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:55.179 lines. Is it economical to do that? And so this 00:11:55.179 --> 00:11:58.919 was a pilot project to do just that. And PG &E 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:02.059 offered a backup system, a diesel generator, 00:12:02.299 --> 00:12:05.899 so that if the sun didn't shine for a week and 00:12:05.899 --> 00:12:08.000 the batteries went down, there'd be a backup. 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:11.519 And we weren't really interested in that. Bechtel 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:13.500 House, where we did this project, is available 00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:16.600 for people who are coming on a short -term basis. 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:18.799 Researchers stay in there for a night or two. 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:22.840 And so it seemed like we had a good opportunity 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:25.500 to try this without the backup system and see 00:12:25.500 --> 00:12:27.659 if we could make it work. So we asked them to 00:12:27.659 --> 00:12:29.899 design the system to last at least four or five 00:12:29.899 --> 00:12:35.740 days with cloud cover, which is... It's fairly 00:12:35.740 --> 00:12:38.620 common that we get sunshine and the system can 00:12:38.620 --> 00:12:41.700 recharge within having one full sunny day. So 00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:44.899 it's worked out pretty good that way. And we 00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:49.159 don't have to have a diesel fossil fuel backup 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:53.620 system that way. So it's the first 100 % renewable 00:12:53.620 --> 00:12:57.860 microgrid that PG &E has built in California. 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:02.090 So we're very proud of that. Then we dug into 00:13:02.090 --> 00:13:05.330 the stewardship -oriented grazing practices that 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:07.490 Michael has been managing at Pepperwood for many 00:13:07.490 --> 00:13:11.230 years. Like many of us, Michael experienced a 00:13:11.230 --> 00:13:14.009 big change in perspective when it came to the 00:13:14.009 --> 00:13:16.909 possibility of cattle herds having a positive 00:13:16.909 --> 00:13:21.700 effect on native habitats. I had watched grazing 00:13:21.700 --> 00:13:24.539 animals particularly cows in the sierras really 00:13:24.539 --> 00:13:28.600 trashing some beautiful sierra meadows and you 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.720 know the impact of cattle on the grasslands of 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:34.480 california historically has been really negative 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:39.620 and you know we put too many too many animals 00:13:39.620 --> 00:13:46.200 on the land and in those early days when Europeans 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.240 were coming to this country. They were bringing 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:51.440 those grazing animals and the hay and the ships 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:53.279 that they brought over here for the animals had 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:56.600 seeds from the Mediterranean climates that we 00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:58.720 are in here. So they just flourished here because 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.840 they didn't have any of their natural control 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:06.100 mechanisms. And so a combination of overgrazing 00:14:06.100 --> 00:14:10.259 and introduction of non -native invasive plants 00:14:10.259 --> 00:14:13.379 really degraded the grasslands of California. 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:18.299 So it was a real learning experience for me to 00:14:18.299 --> 00:14:21.519 see that grazing animals actually can have a 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:26.080 really positive impact after coming at it from 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:29.220 this idea of grazing animals are bad to seeing 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:32.399 that native plants in California really evolved 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:35.580 with grazers. And at that time it was elk and 00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:40.600 pronghorn antelope and big herds of deer. So 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:43.120 with that evolution, the plants do really well, 00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:45.419 actually, with some disturbance from grazing 00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:48.519 animals. And if you've ever seen a landscape 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:50.940 after a big group of animals come through, you 00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:53.440 know, I'm thinking of like caribou in Alaska 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.519 or, you know, some of the big herds moving across 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:00.120 the plains of Africa. They have a really big 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:02.120 impact. You can tell a bunch of animals have 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:05.289 been here, but they're on the move. they're going 00:15:05.289 --> 00:15:09.110 somewhere or they're being approached by predators. 00:15:09.269 --> 00:15:12.370 And so they're staying in a herd where they're 00:15:12.370 --> 00:15:14.250 safer and they're moving across the landscape. 00:15:14.309 --> 00:15:16.509 So they have a big impact and then they move 00:15:16.509 --> 00:15:18.929 off on going somewhere else. And that's what 00:15:18.929 --> 00:15:22.809 we've really learned by watching how things are 00:15:22.809 --> 00:15:25.210 going here at Pepperwood and doing scientific 00:15:25.210 --> 00:15:28.929 monitoring of what the impacts are of our grazing 00:15:28.929 --> 00:15:31.750 program is that it's really, it's not so much 00:15:31.750 --> 00:15:35.639 about overgrazing isn't how, intensely you hit 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:39.500 the landscape that first time, it's getting the 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:42.360 animals off and letting it recover. So what we 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:44.539 call rest period, the amount of time that the 00:15:44.539 --> 00:15:48.379 plants have to come back after they've been grazed 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:52.779 down to the ground is what's really key. So that's 00:15:52.779 --> 00:15:54.960 one thing I learned is that grazing doesn't have 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.440 to be bad. It's really how you manage it that's 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:01.399 what really matters. Michael went on to describe 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:04.639 the history of grazing at the reserve and how 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.679 our current practice works in terms of how the 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.500 cattle are moved about and how the ecosystem 00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:12.940 can respond to this practice when we are successful. 00:16:14.090 --> 00:16:18.330 Yeah, when I first came, we had four big pastures, 00:16:18.330 --> 00:16:21.370 and they were in the 200 or 300 acre size. And 00:16:21.370 --> 00:16:25.649 so the cows would come here in December and leave 00:16:25.649 --> 00:16:28.509 in June, and we would move them between those 00:16:28.509 --> 00:16:31.409 four pastures, usually getting two rotations 00:16:31.409 --> 00:16:33.850 through all those pastures in that amount of 00:16:33.850 --> 00:16:37.590 time. And what we have been doing now for the 00:16:37.590 --> 00:16:42.899 last almost 12 years now is... Really learning 00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:48.080 this idea of adaptive multi -paddock grazing 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.220 is what some people are calling it, targeting 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:53.299 grazing. prescribed grazing conservation grazing 00:16:53.299 --> 00:16:55.080 people come up with all these names for this 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:58.179 but the basic idea is trying to mimic what i 00:16:58.179 --> 00:17:00.159 was just talking about of the wild herds that 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:04.779 used to be here so by using more fencing we use 00:17:04.779 --> 00:17:08.680 a lot of electric fencing here and either portable 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.339 water systems or we've been developing our springs 00:17:11.339 --> 00:17:13.740 so that we have water troughs spread throughout 00:17:13.740 --> 00:17:17.579 the grasslands and that way you can move the 00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:20.750 animals a lot because you create smaller paddocks 00:17:20.750 --> 00:17:23.430 and so the animals have a big impact there like 00:17:23.430 --> 00:17:25.650 i was saying but then you move them off to the 00:17:25.650 --> 00:17:28.230 next paddock and so right now we're moving cows 00:17:28.230 --> 00:17:32.150 every three to seven or eight days so you like 00:17:32.150 --> 00:17:33.890 i say you have a big impact and you get them 00:17:33.890 --> 00:17:36.509 off and you don't bring the animal back until 00:17:36.509 --> 00:17:41.269 those plants have really regenerated from from 00:17:41.269 --> 00:17:45.210 that grazing so they've grown back and what people 00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:48.440 have been finding is that that's really healthy 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.059 thing for the grassland that disturbance is important 00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:54.039 getting rid of the thatch layer eating some of 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:58.539 that biomass down and then the hoof action of 00:17:58.539 --> 00:18:01.660 the animals and the feces and the urine and the 00:18:01.660 --> 00:18:05.299 the hoof punch on the ground all those things 00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:09.390 are natural systems it's just that we've you 00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:12.250 know it used to be done by elk and antelope and 00:18:12.250 --> 00:18:14.670 now we're doing it with grazing animals so it's 00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:17.630 a good food source for people at the same time 00:18:17.630 --> 00:18:22.849 and what we've been seeing also is that by grazing 00:18:22.849 --> 00:18:26.980 the So you have a grass plant and the animal 00:18:26.980 --> 00:18:29.799 comes and eats it down a little bit. Well, underground, 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.839 those plants are losing some of their root mass 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.180 because they're equalizing. As you eat the top 00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:39.579 exposed part of the plant, some of the root material 00:18:39.579 --> 00:18:42.579 goes off into the soil. And that's just carbon. 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:46.019 So you're having a plant taking carbon out of 00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:49.619 the atmosphere and distributing it into the ground. 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:54.059 Native bunch grasses have incredible root systems 00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:57.259 that go down as much as 20 feet in the ground, 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:01.660 whereas the invasive annuals, we're talking less 00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:09.180 than a foot into the ground. having native grasslands 00:19:09.180 --> 00:19:14.059 and by having the plant eaten down and then get 00:19:14.059 --> 00:19:16.380 the animal off it grows back then you bring the 00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:18.779 animal back and it eats it down again each time 00:19:18.779 --> 00:19:20.880 you do that cycle you're putting more carbon 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.180 into the into the soil so our grasslands actually 00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:28.000 have an incredible potential for for carbon sequestration 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.660 you know and we talk about planting trees and 00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:32.880 all that which is an important thing but we have 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.400 so much grasslands throughout the planet that 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:39.279 people really see this as a really great opportunity 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:43.099 moving forward to properly manage our grasslands 00:19:43.099 --> 00:19:46.160 so that they can sequester more carbon into the 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:48.900 soil that way. And when a wildfire comes through, 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:51.039 all that carbon is down in the ground so you 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.240 don't lose it. Whereas when a tree burns up in 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:55.539 a wildfire, that carbon is going back into the 00:19:55.539 --> 00:19:58.960 atmosphere again. So it's a good system and we 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:02.140 need to be more careful about how we manage our 00:20:02.140 --> 00:20:06.869 grasslands for that. What are some of the signs 00:20:06.869 --> 00:20:09.730 you look for that tell you, ah, it's time to 00:20:09.730 --> 00:20:12.609 move the cattle from this area? Well, it really 00:20:12.609 --> 00:20:16.970 varies. So right now, at this time of the year, 00:20:17.049 --> 00:20:21.670 we're doing what we call fast moves, where we're 00:20:21.670 --> 00:20:24.930 just having the cattle in, eating the grass. 00:20:25.420 --> 00:20:27.839 down just a little bit and then moving them on 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.299 to the next paddock and trying to get all the 00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:32.460 way through all the paddocks and then in the 00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:37.500 second round we'll have the biomass down to the 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:41.319 level that we're looking for and it's what they 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.220 call rdm residual dry matter you know how much 00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:48.019 of the plant material is left when you move into 00:20:48.019 --> 00:20:50.220 the dry season where there's no more growth happening 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:54.960 And we try to vary that. There are places that 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:59.859 will have it down to maybe 1 ,000 pounds per 00:20:59.859 --> 00:21:02.559 acre, which is fairly short grass, and there's 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:04.640 places that it might be 2 ,000 or 3 ,000 where 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:07.579 there's some taller grass. And the idea is that 00:21:07.579 --> 00:21:13.700 different animals need different amounts of grass 00:21:13.700 --> 00:21:18.539 there, different amounts of biomass. Burrowing 00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:20.420 owls, which we don't really have here, we have 00:21:20.420 --> 00:21:22.859 a few passing through, but burrowing owls really 00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:26.740 like almost dirt. They like it really grazed 00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:30.259 down a lot. That's why we see them at airports 00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:32.180 and stuff out in the fields where they're mowed 00:21:32.180 --> 00:21:34.900 down to the ground and they think that's great. 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:39.579 And other animals want to hide in the deep grass. 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:43.769 We're trying to mix it up a little bit when we 00:21:43.769 --> 00:21:47.109 go from one paddock to the next and leave different 00:21:47.109 --> 00:21:49.930 amounts of grass there. Kind of aiming for that 00:21:49.930 --> 00:21:53.869 mosaic look. Exactly. Mosaic is the term we use 00:21:53.869 --> 00:21:56.349 a lot. Fantastic. So it sounds like you have 00:21:56.349 --> 00:22:00.430 more than a decade of experience with watching 00:22:00.430 --> 00:22:04.150 how this grazing regime impacts the grasslands. 00:22:04.269 --> 00:22:06.829 So have you learned things through that process 00:22:06.829 --> 00:22:09.710 other than what you've already said? Yeah, well, 00:22:09.789 --> 00:22:12.730 I think, you know, The carbon sequestration is 00:22:12.730 --> 00:22:16.849 one thing. By removing some of the biomass and 00:22:16.849 --> 00:22:19.569 some of the thatch buildup, you get more sunlight 00:22:19.569 --> 00:22:23.150 into the soil, and so you get the seed bank that's 00:22:23.150 --> 00:22:26.289 there germinates, and so you get a lot more diversity 00:22:26.289 --> 00:22:29.789 in plant life because of that exposing the soil 00:22:29.789 --> 00:22:31.809 to some sun. And, you know, you don't want to 00:22:31.809 --> 00:22:36.930 just bare soil. It's a mix, you know, and we 00:22:36.930 --> 00:22:41.329 try to... mix up our grazing intensity so you 00:22:41.329 --> 00:22:43.950 have different impacts on some places we leave 00:22:43.950 --> 00:22:46.069 the grass long other places we graze it down 00:22:46.069 --> 00:22:49.490 pretty low because different animals and organisms 00:22:49.490 --> 00:22:52.009 need to have that diversity instead of doing 00:22:52.009 --> 00:22:54.869 the same thing everywhere you try to mix it up 00:22:54.869 --> 00:23:00.769 a little bit so we're seeing more native forbs 00:23:00.769 --> 00:23:04.250 the wildflowers and and non -native ones too 00:23:04.250 --> 00:23:07.049 but just a greater diversity by having the grazing 00:23:07.049 --> 00:23:11.369 program Well, if there are any consistent messages 00:23:11.369 --> 00:23:13.829 that I have received in my time studying ecology, 00:23:14.450 --> 00:23:17.829 increased diversity makes for stronger ecosystems. 00:23:18.269 --> 00:23:20.549 So it's exciting to hear that cattle grazing 00:23:20.549 --> 00:23:23.490 can be managed in a way that supports increased 00:23:23.490 --> 00:23:27.130 biodiversity in Pepperwood's habitats. Michael 00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:29.769 went on to reflect on the beef cattle industry 00:23:29.769 --> 00:23:32.650 as a whole and Pepperwood's relationship with 00:23:32.650 --> 00:23:35.369 our current grazing partners, Markagard Family 00:23:35.369 --> 00:23:40.819 Grass Fed. We contract for our grazers, you know, 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:42.619 the people who own the cattle and bring them 00:23:42.619 --> 00:23:47.359 here, and we manage them kind of jointly. So 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:51.740 I think it's a challenge for people who are raising 00:23:51.740 --> 00:23:55.279 cattle and for meat and trying to have a business 00:23:55.279 --> 00:24:02.470 model that works. beef production in our country 00:24:02.470 --> 00:24:05.730 is really geared around feedlots and trying to 00:24:05.730 --> 00:24:10.710 fatten animals up with corn and this is a real 00:24:10.710 --> 00:24:13.509 different way of approaching it grass -fed beef 00:24:13.509 --> 00:24:16.789 and so developing a market for that and being 00:24:16.789 --> 00:24:20.309 successful is a challenge for a lot of people 00:24:20.309 --> 00:24:22.930 and it's one reason we're really happy working 00:24:22.930 --> 00:24:26.190 with market guard family grass -fed because they're 00:24:26.779 --> 00:24:29.039 They've figured out how to make it work, and 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.680 so they're financially successful, which really 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:34.220 helps them be successful on the land, right? 00:24:34.299 --> 00:24:37.980 They can manage the cattle in a way that we're 00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:40.460 asking, and they really support the idea of having 00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:45.180 healthy food and healthy grasslands go hand in 00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:47.299 hand. So it's been really great working with 00:24:47.299 --> 00:24:51.880 them. As a reflection on his 30 years of experience, 00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:55.960 I asked Michael one of those old chestnuts. What 00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.940 has been his proudest accomplishment in his time 00:24:58.940 --> 00:25:02.559 at Pepperwood? I think just bringing fire back, 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:05.019 you know, it's something that we've wanted to 00:25:05.019 --> 00:25:08.920 do. It's a really important tool. And so being 00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:12.960 able to get fire back on the landscape is really 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:18.539 a great accomplishment. And, you know, my assistant, 00:25:18.740 --> 00:25:22.750 Devin. Friedfeld, he was in the first group of 00:25:22.750 --> 00:25:26.009 15 to get his burn boss certificate from the 00:25:26.009 --> 00:25:30.230 state that allows him to sign off on burns and 00:25:30.230 --> 00:25:34.210 conduct burns. And so I just feel really grateful 00:25:34.210 --> 00:25:36.750 to him and proud of him for going through that 00:25:36.750 --> 00:25:39.809 step and taking that responsibility because it's 00:25:39.809 --> 00:25:43.750 a big deal to put fire on the ground and to do 00:25:43.750 --> 00:25:48.480 it in a responsible and thoughtful way. So he 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.299 writes burn plans about, you know, there's a 00:25:52.299 --> 00:25:57.160 very specific set of conditions that have to 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:00.980 be there for a burn to happen. So the air temperature, 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:05.059 the relative humidity, the wind, you need to 00:26:05.059 --> 00:26:08.220 have good dispersal of the smoke so that it doesn't 00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:13.039 settle down and become a health hazard to the 00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:17.180 people who are going to be there. So the fuel 00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:19.920 moisture, you know, how much moisture is in the 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:22.460 things that are actually going to burn. And so 00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:24.980 you write a prescription that the conditions 00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:27.380 have to be within this window for all of those 00:26:27.380 --> 00:26:29.980 different considerations. And then you have to 00:26:29.980 --> 00:26:32.759 have the personnel there. And so that's another 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:35.039 part of the prescription of how many fire trucks 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:36.720 do you need? How many people do you need? How 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.599 much fire hose? You know, all this stuff that 00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:42.539 goes into having a safe burn. So Devin's able 00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:47.440 to write that plan. initiate it with a group 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:51.140 of people. And that's been another really great 00:26:51.140 --> 00:26:54.039 thing that I'm proud of is the community building 00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:56.140 that has come together around doing these firms. 00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:58.859 I was going to say, it takes a lot of, you know... 00:27:00.269 --> 00:27:02.970 reciprocal help right there's a lot of uh inter 00:27:02.970 --> 00:27:05.970 -departmental and exactly all of us are coming 00:27:05.970 --> 00:27:08.809 together there's this volunteer group called 00:27:08.809 --> 00:27:10.890 the good fire alliance which is people who are 00:27:10.890 --> 00:27:13.250 interested in getting fire back on the ground 00:27:13.250 --> 00:27:15.950 and some of its organizations a lot of it's just 00:27:15.950 --> 00:27:18.390 individuals who want to see this and so they're 00:27:18.390 --> 00:27:22.839 getting trained about how to be practitioner 00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:26.200 of getting fire back on the ground and so you 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:28.619 know when we do a burn the sonoma land trust 00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:31.599 is there the state parks is there regional parks 00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:34.960 is there multiple fire agencies from around sonoma 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:38.660 county um you know it's just it's great to see 00:27:38.660 --> 00:27:42.319 it's kind of uh you know the barn building or 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:44.220 you know all the community coming together to 00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:47.019 make something really good happen and you know 00:27:47.019 --> 00:27:49.019 so pepperwood goes to other people's firms and 00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:53.849 we support them as well and we have our own fire 00:27:53.849 --> 00:27:57.630 truck, a truck with a water tank and a pump in 00:27:57.630 --> 00:28:00.789 the back that we can loan out to other organizations 00:28:00.789 --> 00:28:03.650 that are doing burns. So continuing to support 00:28:03.650 --> 00:28:06.349 those partnerships. Exactly, because we're so 00:28:06.349 --> 00:28:09.329 far behind. We have a lot of work to do to try 00:28:09.329 --> 00:28:12.509 to get our forests back into a healthy balance 00:28:12.509 --> 00:28:15.190 again, and it's really going to take that and 00:28:15.190 --> 00:28:18.369 a lot more. We're just scratching the surface 00:28:18.369 --> 00:28:21.430 of what needs to happen. But at least we're scratching 00:28:21.430 --> 00:28:24.529 the surface. Exactly, yeah. And I think we're 00:28:24.529 --> 00:28:27.809 going to see it. We have to keep pushing. We 00:28:27.809 --> 00:28:29.869 really need to develop a workforce to be able 00:28:29.869 --> 00:28:32.650 to do this kind of work. And so I think training 00:28:32.650 --> 00:28:35.549 people to be able to go into the forest and know 00:28:35.549 --> 00:28:38.230 what to do and have the skills and the support, 00:28:38.390 --> 00:28:42.009 financial support, the tools to get the work 00:28:42.009 --> 00:28:45.869 done is really key. And, you know, it's great 00:28:45.869 --> 00:28:50.009 work. And I think, you know, having young people 00:28:50.009 --> 00:28:53.109 trained about how to go out and work in the forest 00:28:53.109 --> 00:28:59.049 and improve the health and the wildlife and the 00:28:59.049 --> 00:29:02.250 water quality and all that, it's beneficial. 00:29:02.329 --> 00:29:03.930 And I think people will get a lot out of it. 00:29:05.269 --> 00:29:08.490 On the flip side, I brought out another classic 00:29:08.490 --> 00:29:11.680 interview question. What is the biggest challenge 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.119 of managing Pepperwood as a reserve and an organization? 00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:22.720 Well, I think the financial part of it is always 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:27.759 a struggle. You know, none of this stuff happens 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:30.799 for free. And so we have to raise the money to 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.839 take care of the land and to run the programs 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.720 that we have. So it's always a constant effort 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:42.259 to be raising the money. And so most of our funding 00:29:42.259 --> 00:29:46.079 comes through donations from donors who want 00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:47.960 to see this kind of work get done and support 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:51.059 what we're doing. And we write a lot of grants 00:29:51.059 --> 00:29:53.759 and get money both from private foundations, 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:58.279 family foundations, as well as agencies, state 00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:01.299 and federal agencies. support what we're doing. 00:30:01.420 --> 00:30:05.180 So it's a constant effort and probably the most 00:30:05.180 --> 00:30:08.920 challenging part of my job. Those thoughts led 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:12.039 us directly to the question, what's the best 00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:14.380 way to support Pepperwood as a member of the 00:30:14.380 --> 00:30:18.680 community? Well, I mentioned our challenge with 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:21.519 fundraising, so helping us out financially is 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:24.240 a really big... piece of the pie to make things 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:27.420 work you know and it's hard to ask for money 00:30:27.420 --> 00:30:30.619 but it's just critical to making things work 00:30:30.619 --> 00:30:34.539 here so the nature of a non -profit is that we 00:30:34.539 --> 00:30:36.900 need that support absolutely to get to get these 00:30:36.900 --> 00:30:39.720 to get all this good work done absolutely and 00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:42.220 then you can come and volunteer here there's 00:30:42.220 --> 00:30:44.559 lots of opportunities the the best way to get 00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:47.079 started is to come to our volunteer work days 00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:50.119 that are the first saturday of every month and 00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:52.869 they've actually are almost competitive now because 00:30:52.869 --> 00:30:55.710 people love coming to them it's just a great 00:30:55.710 --> 00:30:58.630 opportunity to have a sense of community and 00:30:58.630 --> 00:31:01.869 doing good positive work together and you know 00:31:01.869 --> 00:31:03.869 we come we work really hard together for three 00:31:03.869 --> 00:31:07.990 hours that morning and we organize our activities 00:31:07.990 --> 00:31:10.450 really well so they're productive and people 00:31:10.450 --> 00:31:13.750 come and they you get stuff done and then For 00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:15.710 three hours, you get tired and you're done. And 00:31:15.710 --> 00:31:19.849 then we really found early on that feeding people 00:31:19.849 --> 00:31:23.109 makes all the difference in the world. So a couple 00:31:23.109 --> 00:31:26.250 of our volunteers cook a hot meal for lunch. 00:31:26.430 --> 00:31:30.170 And I understand there's lots of cookies available. 00:31:30.210 --> 00:31:34.269 And there's lots of cookies. Yes, Flora is the 00:31:34.269 --> 00:31:38.789 cookie lady. So she's always got great diversity 00:31:38.789 --> 00:31:41.130 of cookies for everybody. So her legend tells. 00:31:41.410 --> 00:31:45.460 Yes, yes. finally turning our attention back 00:31:45.460 --> 00:31:49.579 to nature itself. With his 30 years of time spent 00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:52.019 in Pepperwood's lovely habitats and among its 00:31:52.019 --> 00:31:55.319 many furred and scaled and feathered denizens, 00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:59.740 I just had to ask. What's your favorite species 00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:01.880 that lives on the property, Michael? Oh, geez, 00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:08.160 that's a hard one. I know. I mean, I like seeing 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.869 the big carnivores, but they're... Rare to see. 00:32:10.970 --> 00:32:13.130 I've only seen one mountain lion since I've been 00:32:13.130 --> 00:32:16.210 here. One mountain lion sighting in 30 years. 00:32:16.269 --> 00:32:19.150 That is rare. Yeah. And our cameras, you know, 00:32:19.210 --> 00:32:21.710 we have wildlife motion activated cameras out 00:32:21.710 --> 00:32:24.349 there and they see them all the time. But it's 00:32:24.349 --> 00:32:26.009 rare for us. They probably know you. They say, 00:32:26.049 --> 00:32:28.569 yeah, that's Michael. I wondered how many times 00:32:28.569 --> 00:32:32.630 they've watched me. So seeing bears, you know, 00:32:32.650 --> 00:32:34.769 I've seen a couple of bears here over the time. 00:32:34.970 --> 00:32:38.369 But I think, you know. A lot of the smaller critters, 00:32:38.369 --> 00:32:42.509 I'm kind of partial to snakes, and I had a great 00:32:42.509 --> 00:32:48.450 interaction with a spotted owl once that I was 00:32:48.450 --> 00:32:53.109 walking through a really dense bottom of a ravine, 00:32:53.109 --> 00:32:56.230 and I was kind of making my way through the vegetation, 00:32:56.430 --> 00:32:58.349 and all of a sudden there was a bunch of flapping 00:32:58.349 --> 00:33:00.369 right at my head, and I was kind of like, what 00:33:00.369 --> 00:33:05.890 is all that? The bird landed on a tree that was 00:33:05.890 --> 00:33:08.430 just like six feet away from me, but on the backside 00:33:08.430 --> 00:33:10.769 of the tree. And I'm looking there and it peeks 00:33:10.769 --> 00:33:12.569 its head around from the side of the tree to 00:33:12.569 --> 00:33:14.029 look at me, you know, and we're both standing 00:33:14.029 --> 00:33:16.730 there looking at each other. And then it flies 00:33:16.730 --> 00:33:19.029 to a branch just a few feet away from me and 00:33:19.029 --> 00:33:23.329 just sits there. And we just contemplated each 00:33:23.329 --> 00:33:25.589 other for a long time and talked back and forth 00:33:25.589 --> 00:33:28.220 a little bit. I started looking around on the 00:33:28.220 --> 00:33:30.339 ground like did it have something that it had 00:33:30.339 --> 00:33:32.880 caught that was eating and that's why it wasn't 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.660 leaving and I didn't see anything and it we must 00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:39.579 have been there for 20 minutes just staring each 00:33:39.579 --> 00:33:42.279 other you know like six or eight feet apart and 00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:45.420 I finally thought okay well you know it's been 00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:49.380 fun I'm gonna go now and I walked away it was 00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:52.940 such a wonderful little That's beautiful. You 00:33:52.940 --> 00:33:54.900 got to just accept each other there in that moment. 00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:57.519 Yeah, exactly. Wonderful. Well, Michael, thank 00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:59.779 you so much for taking the time to talk to me 00:33:59.779 --> 00:34:02.500 today. This has been not just informative, but 00:34:02.500 --> 00:34:05.099 an absolute delight. So thank you very much. 00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:08.199 And anything else that you would like the people 00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:10.639 to know about Pepperwood? Well, I really appreciate 00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:13.780 the opportunity to talk about my passion, which 00:34:13.780 --> 00:34:17.260 is about... taking care of land and working with 00:34:17.260 --> 00:34:19.639 people. Wonderful. Thanks for the opportunity. 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:25.179 Absolutely. Keep up the good work. Thanks again 00:34:25.179 --> 00:34:28.460 to Michael for the conversation and for his patience 00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:31.840 waiting for this episode to come out. If you'd 00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:34.179 like to hear anything more about what we discussed 00:34:34.179 --> 00:34:36.739 or if you have a follow -up question about anything 00:34:36.739 --> 00:34:40.000 that Michael said, please email it to us at podcast 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.940 at pepperwoodpreserve .org. Thanks as always 00:34:43.940 --> 00:34:47.300 to Stephanie Antinoro, our communication coordinator, 00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:51.940 and to our IT firm, DeepNet, for helping us distribute 00:34:51.940 --> 00:34:55.380 this podcast out to all of the various feeds. 00:34:55.480 --> 00:34:58.219 We are now available almost anywhere that folks 00:34:58.219 --> 00:35:02.030 access podcasts, so tell your friends. And now, 00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:06.449 as always, it's time to play the Nature Sound 00:35:06.449 --> 00:35:12.050 Guess Who Game. Some of our listeners have been 00:35:12.050 --> 00:35:14.429 waiting for many weeks to have their curiosity 00:35:14.429 --> 00:35:17.389 satisfied about last episode's nature sound, 00:35:17.570 --> 00:35:20.670 so let's not dally. At the end of episode four, 00:35:20.829 --> 00:35:24.469 we heard the dulcet tones of this local critter. 00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:38.739 That sound was made by the... Minor Cicada. Platypedia 00:35:38.739 --> 00:35:43.239 Minor. The full clip is about 30 seconds long. 00:35:43.869 --> 00:35:46.190 and is accessible as part of an iNaturalist observation, 00:35:46.510 --> 00:35:48.869 just like the clip of the gray fox we heard back 00:35:48.869 --> 00:35:51.510 in episodes two and three. We will include a 00:35:51.510 --> 00:35:54.269 link to the observation in our show notes. It 00:35:54.269 --> 00:35:57.269 was recorded and shared to iNaturalist by Elliot 00:35:57.269 --> 00:36:00.889 Smeds, a local naturalist and scientist, and 00:36:00.889 --> 00:36:03.750 someone I am happy to call both a colleague and 00:36:03.750 --> 00:36:07.309 a friend. On iNaturalist, Elliot is a top observer 00:36:07.309 --> 00:36:10.050 and identifier of this species, and no doubt 00:36:10.050 --> 00:36:14.179 several local cicada species. And he was a classmate 00:36:14.179 --> 00:36:16.380 of mine in the Sonoma State University biology 00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:19.360 department. We actually sat next to one another 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:22.199 at our undergraduate graduation in the Green 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:25.880 Center in May of 2017, and we both went on to 00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:29.139 complete master's degrees at Sonoma State. So 00:36:29.139 --> 00:36:31.840 those were some fun facts about Elliot. Now let's 00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:35.619 have some fun facts about the miner Cicada. First... 00:36:35.929 --> 00:36:39.710 They are not among the famous periodical cicadas. 00:36:39.849 --> 00:36:43.150 That's seven species in the genus Magicicada, 00:36:43.250 --> 00:36:45.690 and those are found in the eastern United States. 00:36:45.789 --> 00:36:48.949 And they famously take either 13 or 17 years 00:36:48.949 --> 00:36:52.849 to mature and emerge in huge reproductive cohorts 00:36:52.849 --> 00:36:55.429 at those intervals. Other cicadas, including 00:36:55.429 --> 00:36:59.030 the minor cicada, are still long -lived. It takes 00:36:59.030 --> 00:37:01.769 them up to five years to reach maturity, and 00:37:01.769 --> 00:37:04.510 they have overlapping generations, so some individuals 00:37:04.510 --> 00:37:07.110 emerge every year, and they are therefore called 00:37:07.110 --> 00:37:10.750 annual cicadas as opposed to periodical cicadas. 00:37:11.170 --> 00:37:14.690 Even within the annual cicada group, the genus 00:37:14.690 --> 00:37:18.309 Platypedia is unique in that they do not have 00:37:18.309 --> 00:37:21.409 the stupendous sound -making organ that is so 00:37:21.409 --> 00:37:24.960 characteristic of other cicada species. In most 00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.679 cicadas, the males have a taut drum -like membrane 00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:31.420 called a timble at the base of their abdomen, 00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:34.780 and they use strong muscles to vibrate that membrane 00:37:34.780 --> 00:37:37.719 and produce a powerful sound to attract mates. 00:37:38.300 --> 00:37:40.800 When I chose this nature mystery sound for you, 00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:44.820 I specifically avoided the really intense ear 00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:48.820 -piercing sounds made by most cicadas. In comparison, 00:37:49.420 --> 00:37:51.980 The minor cicada and other members of the genus 00:37:51.980 --> 00:37:55.340 Platypedia emit these short clicking sounds that 00:37:55.340 --> 00:37:58.579 you heard by rattling their wings together. So 00:37:58.579 --> 00:38:01.940 maybe it's a less singular and impressive trait, 00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:05.679 but in my humble human opinion, it is much nicer 00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:09.639 than listening to that incredibly ear -piercing 00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:13.519 sound. Just listen back to our minor cicada sound. 00:38:17.340 --> 00:38:21.550 Ah. Gentle, soothing, especially compared to 00:38:21.550 --> 00:38:23.590 other cicadas. If you would like the comparison, 00:38:23.849 --> 00:38:26.769 we will put a link to one of Elliot's other iNaturalist 00:38:26.769 --> 00:38:29.710 observations in the show notes, but I'm not going 00:38:29.710 --> 00:38:32.269 to shock your ears here by reproducing it. Please 00:38:32.269 --> 00:38:35.469 go check it out on your own. This background 00:38:35.469 --> 00:38:38.969 information came from the National Wildlife Federation's 00:38:38.969 --> 00:38:41.469 Field Guide to Insects and Spiders of North America 00:38:41.469 --> 00:38:44.750 by Arthur V. Evans, and also the book California 00:38:44.750 --> 00:38:48.230 Insects by Jerry A. Powell and Charles L. Hogue. 00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:51.360 Thank you for playing the Nature Sound Guess 00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:55.059 Who game. But here comes the next new sound for 00:38:55.059 --> 00:38:57.500 you to guess and for us to reveal in our next 00:38:57.500 --> 00:39:09.500 episode. Listen up in three, two, one. And here's 00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:20.610 your second chance in three, two, one. Remember, 00:39:20.710 --> 00:39:24.110 you can submit your guess of who made that sound 00:39:24.110 --> 00:39:27.489 by emailing us at podcast at pepperwoodpreserve 00:39:27.489 --> 00:39:31.469 .org or find the Facebook or Instagram posts 00:39:31.469 --> 00:39:34.230 where we announce this episode and ask for your 00:39:34.230 --> 00:39:38.050 guesses. Until next episode, thank you friends 00:39:38.050 --> 00:39:40.630 for listening and don't forget to keep your ears 00:39:40.630 --> 00:39:41.610 tuned into nature.