WEBVTT 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:03.100 This is the Pepperwood Podcast, a production 00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:05.860 of Pepperwood, a nonprofit conservation organization 00:00:05.860 --> 00:00:09.480 based at a 3 ,200 -acre nature reserve near Santa 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:12.119 Rosa, California, in the heart of the traditional 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:15.539 homeland of the Wappo people. At Pepperwood, 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.480 we aim to inspire conservation through science. 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:21.600 And on this show, we talk to scientists, stewards, 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:24.440 and environmental educators about what they do 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:27.660 and how they do it. We hope to give you a glimpse 00:00:27.660 --> 00:00:30.199 into the real experiences of folks who devote 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:32.479 their lives to taking care of local ecosystems 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:37.380 and sharing them with others. Welcome to the 00:00:37.380 --> 00:00:40.780 second episode of the Pepperwood Podcast. I'm 00:00:40.780 --> 00:00:42.759 Julianne, your host and part of the education 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:45.359 team here at Pepperwood, and I'm back with another 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:48.420 great conversation. Today we have a conversation 00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:51.240 with Devin Friedfell, Assistant Preserve Manager 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:54.679 at Pepperwood and Certified California Burn Boss. 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:57.780 And therefore, what should we discuss if not 00:00:57.780 --> 00:01:01.520 fire? The use of prescribed fire in land stewardship 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:05.019 is a big, complex topic, so I asked Devin to 00:01:05.019 --> 00:01:07.959 start by telling us about just one of the many 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:09.959 practices that falls under that big umbrella, 00:01:10.180 --> 00:01:14.239 namely pile burning. Hopefully, we can invite 00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:16.760 Devin back to talk in detail about other related 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:20.319 practices like broadcast burns and wildfire recovery, 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:22.620 both of which are mentioned in this conversation 00:01:22.620 --> 00:01:26.359 but not fully delved into. For today, believe 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:28.760 me, the practice of pile burning gives us plenty 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:32.739 to talk about. So let's get to it. We hope you 00:01:32.739 --> 00:01:35.239 enjoy my conversation with Devin Friedfeld, which 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:40.379 took place in August of 2024. Devin, thank you 00:01:40.379 --> 00:01:43.739 so much for sitting down with me today. And I'm 00:01:43.739 --> 00:01:45.519 really looking forward to hearing about some 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:48.599 specific projects. But first... I would love 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:51.620 to hear from you just a perspective on fire in 00:01:51.620 --> 00:01:55.060 general and like how we use fire, how fire has 00:01:55.060 --> 00:01:58.340 been here in California before. I just Googled 00:01:58.340 --> 00:02:01.060 fire in California and all I got was a bunch 00:02:01.060 --> 00:02:03.879 of really depressing things about the history 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:06.099 of wildfires within the last decade. But that's 00:02:06.099 --> 00:02:09.599 not history. That's almost... you know, that's 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.560 almost current events. So what is the history 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.319 of fire in California from somebody who is trained 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:17.620 in this sort of thing? Yeah, I mean, the history 00:02:17.620 --> 00:02:21.599 of fire in California goes back since to the 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:24.860 dawn of time or since time immemorial, as some 00:02:24.860 --> 00:02:28.439 folks like to say it. But really, there's clear 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:34.590 scientific evidence through... tree ring sampling, 00:02:34.830 --> 00:02:38.150 through soil sampling, and then also most importantly 00:02:38.150 --> 00:02:42.050 through indigenous storytelling and oral histories 00:02:42.050 --> 00:02:44.969 of the people that have been on this land for 00:02:44.969 --> 00:02:49.090 thousands of years and how they have very specific 00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:54.990 uses and practices of fire that range immensely 00:02:54.990 --> 00:02:58.719 throughout the state. And you just think of how 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:01.500 many different indigenous communities there were 00:03:01.500 --> 00:03:05.020 pre -settlement in California, and they all had 00:03:05.020 --> 00:03:09.500 very specific, unique fire practices for very 00:03:09.500 --> 00:03:13.699 specific outcomes, and they largely varied. But 00:03:13.699 --> 00:03:15.639 I think one thing that's consistent through them 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:20.259 is the use of humans using fire to steward the 00:03:20.259 --> 00:03:23.949 land. That's a beautiful thing to think about, 00:03:23.990 --> 00:03:26.750 is that fire was a good tool long before we thought 00:03:26.750 --> 00:03:29.150 of it as this sort of destructive force that 00:03:29.150 --> 00:03:31.469 we have to consider every day. Yeah, and then 00:03:31.469 --> 00:03:33.810 during settlement times, there's some really 00:03:33.810 --> 00:03:39.310 cool early journal documents from a lot of the 00:03:39.310 --> 00:03:40.909 early settlers just talking about smoke in the 00:03:40.909 --> 00:03:44.800 sky and coming and seeing burns. And then also 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:48.439 when the Spanish started the mission system, 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:50.500 stories about that. And it was really just this 00:03:50.500 --> 00:03:52.479 Western perspective of that fire is bad. And 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:53.979 that's just kind of driven the narrative really 00:03:53.979 --> 00:03:58.539 since then and has really created this culture 00:03:58.539 --> 00:04:01.639 of fire suppression instead of stewarding with 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:05.960 fire. And that the results of the fire suppression 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:10.500 effort has led to fuel load accumulation. stressed 00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:13.780 out plants because of competition and then also 00:04:13.780 --> 00:04:16.420 not receiving kind of the healing benefits that 00:04:16.420 --> 00:04:19.720 fire has brought. Yeah, we kind of got ourselves 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:23.240 a backlog of work to do. Yeah. You know, at least 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:26.480 some impacts from not having done this work that 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:29.060 had been being done for so long. And then we 00:04:29.060 --> 00:04:31.139 get these big mega wildfires because of this 00:04:31.139 --> 00:04:33.800 fuel loading and then you get more tree mortality 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:37.170 and you get your old growth trees. that are your 00:04:37.170 --> 00:04:40.350 carbon sequesters dying, um, and then creating 00:04:40.350 --> 00:04:42.389 more litter, um, and then leading to the next 00:04:42.389 --> 00:04:44.350 catastrophic wildfire. And so it's like this 00:04:44.350 --> 00:04:47.490 big mega destructive fire leads to the next big 00:04:47.490 --> 00:04:49.769 negative destructive fire. Um, so it's this positive 00:04:49.769 --> 00:04:52.110 feedback loop of like the lack of fires actually 00:04:52.110 --> 00:04:55.250 leading to more destructive fires, um, instead 00:04:55.250 --> 00:05:00.750 of using this, uh, this fire as a process, um, 00:05:00.910 --> 00:05:04.089 that has stewarded this land for, um, countless 00:05:04.089 --> 00:05:07.470 generations. Um, And I think one thing that's 00:05:07.470 --> 00:05:09.910 been really apparent to me is watching the response 00:05:09.910 --> 00:05:13.449 from the Tubbs fire from the ecology at Pepperwood 00:05:13.449 --> 00:05:16.209 and just seeing how all of the native species 00:05:16.209 --> 00:05:20.410 thrived in their own unique ways, whether it 00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:24.170 be a mass production of the geophytes and bulbs. 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:26.540 popping up everywhere after the fire because 00:05:26.540 --> 00:05:28.660 they finally are getting a nutrient flush and 00:05:28.660 --> 00:05:31.180 some additional sunlight because the canopy has 00:05:31.180 --> 00:05:33.560 been opened up to the oak trees, basil sprouting 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:38.120 and epicormic sprouting from their trunks to 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:41.439 wildflower blooms like I've never seen before. 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.540 And I could go on and on of just like all these 00:05:45.540 --> 00:05:49.000 different ways that our California ecology responded. 00:05:52.220 --> 00:05:54.720 There's some wildlife camera initial kind of 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:58.939 knowledge from Stephen Hamrick and Morgan Gray, 00:05:59.139 --> 00:06:03.339 our wildlife team, that really showed, hey, after 00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:06.360 the fires, we saw a really big increase in herbivores 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:09.639 and then a big increase in carnivores a few years 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:12.100 later. And just kind of watching that succession 00:06:12.100 --> 00:06:15.339 just bounce back really fast. And seeing that 00:06:15.339 --> 00:06:17.759 on a day -to -day basis was like, wow, these 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:22.589 plants know what to do more with fire. than we 00:06:22.589 --> 00:06:25.990 humans do in our Western culture. And because 00:06:25.990 --> 00:06:30.290 that fire knowledge has been lost in our culture, 00:06:30.410 --> 00:06:34.850 but the plants, the animals, they remember. Well, 00:06:34.870 --> 00:06:38.370 that's tremendous. Well, I know it's a big, big 00:06:38.370 --> 00:06:41.970 undertaking to reintroduce this process in a 00:06:41.970 --> 00:06:44.129 holistic way. So let's just take it one piece 00:06:44.129 --> 00:06:47.430 at a time. One of the biggest projects that was 00:06:47.430 --> 00:06:50.629 certainly one of the most visually... obvious 00:06:50.629 --> 00:06:53.029 elements that we see as we walk around Pepperwood 00:06:53.029 --> 00:06:57.310 is this burn pile process that you've been generating 00:06:57.310 --> 00:06:59.870 these burn piles and burning them and then processing 00:06:59.870 --> 00:07:03.430 them afterward. So I'm very curious about them. 00:07:04.089 --> 00:07:07.930 Let's just start with who or which species are 00:07:07.930 --> 00:07:10.269 getting piled up and burned in these burn piles. 00:07:10.569 --> 00:07:14.990 Yeah, so these burn piles are really... first 00:07:14.990 --> 00:07:18.410 step at addressing our fuels issue like I said 00:07:18.410 --> 00:07:20.069 the fuel accumulation that happened because of 00:07:20.069 --> 00:07:23.189 fire suppression has really put us in a place 00:07:23.189 --> 00:07:26.870 where if we want to do a prescribed fire under 00:07:26.870 --> 00:07:30.250 current conditions it will probably burn hotter 00:07:30.250 --> 00:07:31.990 than we would want it to we might get high tree 00:07:31.990 --> 00:07:34.089 mortality even if we're burning under the conditions 00:07:34.089 --> 00:07:36.529 that we want our fuel loading is so high that 00:07:36.529 --> 00:07:39.050 there could be some adverse ecological effects 00:07:41.670 --> 00:07:45.189 So Clint McKay, the chair of our Native Advisory 00:07:45.189 --> 00:07:49.310 Council and indigenous educator at Pepperwood, 00:07:49.470 --> 00:07:53.089 he's talked to me about how cultural burns that 00:07:53.089 --> 00:07:55.290 had happened in this area were really slow and 00:07:55.290 --> 00:07:59.730 slow. Low intensity, slow moving. But that's 00:07:59.730 --> 00:08:01.689 just not possible in our current forests, right? 00:08:01.689 --> 00:08:03.310 Right. So you look at some of the fuel loading 00:08:03.310 --> 00:08:06.970 and it's not really possible. our pile burning 00:08:06.970 --> 00:08:08.990 effort has really been this first approach of 00:08:08.990 --> 00:08:14.389 getting fuels reduction in um So what we're going 00:08:14.389 --> 00:08:16.850 and doing is we're actually moving through, we're 00:08:16.850 --> 00:08:19.290 really focusing on our oak woodlands first and 00:08:19.290 --> 00:08:22.470 kind of cutting out a lot of the dead down fuel 00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:26.949 that had either happened over years of the lack 00:08:26.949 --> 00:08:29.670 of fire and then also as a repercussion of both 00:08:29.670 --> 00:08:31.730 the Tubbs and the Kincaid fire, right? So that 00:08:31.730 --> 00:08:33.529 killed a lot of trees and then we're kind of 00:08:33.529 --> 00:08:37.970 left with more fuel loading left over, which 00:08:37.970 --> 00:08:40.009 is basically, you know, setting us up for the 00:08:40.009 --> 00:08:44.809 next big... burn that wildfire. So we're going 00:08:44.809 --> 00:08:47.730 through and cutting this material, building roughly 00:08:47.730 --> 00:08:50.269 four foot by four foot by four foot little cube 00:08:50.269 --> 00:08:53.750 piles. They vary a little bit. And then placing 00:08:53.750 --> 00:08:57.090 them throughout the forest in areas where when 00:08:57.090 --> 00:08:58.710 they burn, they're actually not going to cause 00:08:58.710 --> 00:09:01.129 a lot of damage to some of these large trees. 00:09:01.269 --> 00:09:02.730 So we're not putting them up at the base of a 00:09:02.730 --> 00:09:06.029 tree. We're waiting for those openings in the 00:09:06.029 --> 00:09:08.789 canopy, setting them under there. A lot of times 00:09:08.789 --> 00:09:11.389 we're able to target these piles and put them 00:09:11.389 --> 00:09:14.169 on some invasive species that some species that 00:09:14.169 --> 00:09:17.289 we maybe don't want um so because those piles 00:09:17.289 --> 00:09:19.509 are burning really hot we can actually use them 00:09:19.509 --> 00:09:22.610 to potentially benefit um and knocking back some 00:09:22.610 --> 00:09:24.450 other vegetation that we maybe don't don't want 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:27.129 so uh french broom is a good example if we have 00:09:27.129 --> 00:09:29.509 like a little patch of french broom um and there's 00:09:29.509 --> 00:09:30.990 a bunch of little germinants coming up we can 00:09:30.990 --> 00:09:34.649 place that pile on that and use the pile to reduce 00:09:34.649 --> 00:09:36.509 fuel, but also target some of our invasive species. 00:09:36.809 --> 00:09:39.090 Harding grass is another species that we'll do 00:09:39.090 --> 00:09:45.409 that with. So yeah, just really trying to not 00:09:45.409 --> 00:09:48.289 just think about these piles as fuels reduction 00:09:48.289 --> 00:09:52.889 avenues, but it's really what they're meant for, 00:09:52.970 --> 00:09:57.710 but how else can we use pile burning and this 00:09:57.710 --> 00:10:05.220 fire in this way that is maybe not historically 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:08.539 hasn't been a big part of the fire process through 00:10:08.539 --> 00:10:11.740 time when we're going through. But then neither 00:10:11.740 --> 00:10:14.419 were some of these invasive species, right? Exactly, 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:16.899 right? So things are a little different. We're 00:10:16.899 --> 00:10:18.460 going through and kind of doing stuff at scale, 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:21.659 like a 70 -acre scale, 100 -acre scale, where 00:10:21.659 --> 00:10:24.480 we're going and cutting up the dead wood, piling 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:27.679 it across 100 acres, and we get left with 3 ,000 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:32.399 burn piles. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:34.159 a lot. So that's even, I mean, we're looking 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.259 at a 3 ,200 acre preserve. We're not even. touching 00:10:38.259 --> 00:10:41.519 most of that, right? Just even, you should say, 00:10:41.539 --> 00:10:44.899 what, 100 acres? Yeah. And generate 3 ,000 piles. 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:47.179 That's an immense amount of work. Yeah. And how 00:10:47.179 --> 00:10:49.000 long does it take to do some of that thinning 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.679 work? Yeah, so that thinning work, we usually 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:53.519 will contract out. We'll do some of it in -house. 00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:56.419 We work with some really awesome partners, both 00:10:56.419 --> 00:10:58.500 on the funding side to kind of support this work, 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:01.580 and also some really great skilled contractors 00:11:01.580 --> 00:11:04.320 that'll come out and really listen, have ecologically 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:08.820 focus, and really... work with us to get the 00:11:08.820 --> 00:11:11.360 end product that we want um and they you know 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:13.840 depending on how many people are out we the the 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:15.879 chainsaw mechanical work usually takes about 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:20.960 two weeks um and then burning about 3 000 piles 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:23.480 is more than probably a year's work our team 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:25.480 our restoration team here is pretty pretty small 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:28.720 um so last year we burnt over 2 000 piles i think 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.720 that was the most we've burnt um and um i just 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:39.100 um It was a lot of just myself last winter, but 00:11:39.100 --> 00:11:42.700 I really leaned heavily on our partners and the 00:11:42.700 --> 00:11:45.899 Good Fire Alliance volunteers. The Good Fire 00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:49.980 Alliance is our Sonoma County Prescribed Burn 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:53.659 Association. So it is just a loose group of folks 00:11:53.659 --> 00:11:55.320 that are on a listserv that are really interested 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.440 in bringing back fire in an ecologically minded 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.600 way. Some folks that maybe don't have access 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.360 to land, some folks that are maybe trying to 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:04.740 build their skill set, some maybe landowners 00:12:04.740 --> 00:12:06.860 that are interested in bringing fire back to 00:12:06.860 --> 00:12:11.580 their land. And so I have called on them a lot. 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:13.919 I've called on partners such as Fire Forward, 00:12:14.100 --> 00:12:20.019 Regional Parks, State Parks, Laguna Foundation, 00:12:20.700 --> 00:12:25.879 Land Paths. Oh my gosh. There's like a wide network. 00:12:25.940 --> 00:12:28.960 It is really just like all the non -profit, environmental 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:32.659 non -profits and agent state, county, federal 00:12:32.659 --> 00:12:34.759 agencies that are really interested in fire have 00:12:34.759 --> 00:12:37.440 all really banded together to support each other 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:42.740 and built a really strong community around bringing 00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:47.299 fire back in a good way. I've been, I mean, here 00:12:47.299 --> 00:12:48.860 at Pepperwood, we're really fortunate to have 00:12:48.860 --> 00:12:51.970 the... Our Native Advisory Council, which has 00:12:51.970 --> 00:12:54.409 really helped guide us. And really, I think what 00:12:54.409 --> 00:12:56.110 we're trying to get to with these pile burns 00:12:56.110 --> 00:12:59.669 is something that our council is really supportive 00:12:59.669 --> 00:13:02.350 of is, hey, yeah, let's get these fuels reduction 00:13:02.350 --> 00:13:07.830 piles in to prepare the land best for future 00:13:07.830 --> 00:13:10.320 cultural burns, right? Well, you're already getting 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:13.399 to my next question, which is how, as we do this 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:15.399 work, all these pile burns, these thousands of 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.019 pile burns, what is going to be the impact on 00:13:18.019 --> 00:13:20.019 future stewardship work at Pepperwood? And so 00:13:20.019 --> 00:13:21.320 it sounds like you're heading in that direction. 00:13:21.700 --> 00:13:24.240 What are some of the possibilities if we continue 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:26.840 with this process? Yeah, that is our dream, right? 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:32.419 I think there's like, you know. Eight to 15 years 00:13:32.419 --> 00:13:35.419 is the rough fire return interval in oak woodlands 00:13:35.419 --> 00:13:37.399 in California is kind of what some of the literature 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.840 says. So if I get my fuels reduction, if we get 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:44.220 our fuels reduction down to a really good place, 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:46.980 hopefully we'll be doing our maintenance burns 00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:50.700 with broadcast prescribed fire and cultural burning 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:55.860 and really helping the future stewardship of 00:13:55.860 --> 00:14:01.000 the preserve and engaging with our council. supporting 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:04.019 their target goals with cultural burning with 00:14:04.019 --> 00:14:07.620 food sovereignty goals but really feel it's our 00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:10.720 responsibility to prepare the land as best as 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.799 possible for those things right a lot of those 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.779 practices aren't really feasible under current 00:14:16.779 --> 00:14:20.259 conditions there's a lot of physical mechanical 00:14:20.259 --> 00:14:22.639 work that needs to happen to reduce the fuel 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:28.279 loads to get to kind of look like it did pre 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:29.960 -settlement. And it's never going to look the 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:31.399 same. We have climate change, we have invasive 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:35.700 species, but trying to nudge the needle closer 00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:39.340 to... At least functionally the way it used to 00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:41.100 be. Functionally at least the way it used to 00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:46.220 be and really providing that space for cultural 00:14:46.220 --> 00:14:52.620 practitioners to practice what they've practiced 00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:56.779 on this. landscape for thousands of years i actually 00:14:56.779 --> 00:14:59.159 i really do think that is going to be the best 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.840 ecological like stewardship process as possible 00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:06.059 because it's a co -evolution thing that happened 00:15:06.059 --> 00:15:08.340 right people burning plants evolving to those 00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:11.080 practices so we really need to work to get back 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.500 to those practices to do the best for the plants 00:15:14.500 --> 00:15:18.509 and animals and soil and air quality and water 00:15:18.509 --> 00:15:21.809 quality and our fish downstream. So really, I 00:15:21.809 --> 00:15:24.309 think it's all really connected and bringing 00:15:24.309 --> 00:15:27.230 back fire in that way that it had historically 00:15:27.230 --> 00:15:31.159 been here is. huge key to it yeah that's a big 00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:34.940 goal so it's like the all of this physical and 00:15:34.940 --> 00:15:38.159 mechanical and pretty I assume it's pretty costly 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.799 work to be doing these mechanical thinning and 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:43.899 then compiling it into burns but this this phase 00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:46.220 of it is like an investment in the long -term 00:15:46.220 --> 00:15:49.460 ability of then maybe broadcast burns coming 00:15:49.460 --> 00:15:51.460 back to the forest and being able to do a lot 00:15:51.460 --> 00:15:55.850 of that work for us yeah yeah and so That's the 00:15:55.850 --> 00:15:58.610 ideal goal. I think another really big piece 00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:01.230 of that is creating Pepperwood as a strategic 00:16:01.230 --> 00:16:05.169 fuel break for future wildfires. We're working 00:16:05.169 --> 00:16:06.990 with Cal Fire. We're working with Sonoma County 00:16:06.990 --> 00:16:09.970 Fire District. We're working with Northern Sonoma 00:16:09.970 --> 00:16:12.269 County Fire District. We're working with Fire 00:16:12.269 --> 00:16:17.389 Forward. But really, Cal Fire Chief Nichols has 00:16:17.389 --> 00:16:20.169 called out Pepperwood as a potential strategic 00:16:20.169 --> 00:16:23.889 fuel break. We have grassy ridges along the Myakama. 00:16:24.509 --> 00:16:27.830 um mountains which is not super common um we 00:16:27.830 --> 00:16:29.929 have a road system that runs right down the middle 00:16:29.929 --> 00:16:32.730 yeah yeah there's access for all the vehicles 00:16:32.730 --> 00:16:36.649 that would be required yeah right and so when 00:16:36.649 --> 00:16:39.450 wildfires do break out um we work closely with 00:16:39.450 --> 00:16:41.210 cal fire they help us on a lot of these projects 00:16:41.210 --> 00:16:45.529 so they know pepperwood property well they know 00:16:45.529 --> 00:16:47.370 where our projects have happened they know where 00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:49.769 our road system are and so that they can strategically 00:16:49.769 --> 00:16:53.220 use pepperwood in those you know, emergency scenarios 00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:56.519 to make a stand. We saw that during the Kincaid 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.139 fire. They put in about 15 miles of bulldozer 00:17:00.139 --> 00:17:03.799 lines and really stopped the Kincaid fire from 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:06.039 dropping back down into Mark West Springs and 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:08.420 creating that same corridor effect that happened 00:17:08.420 --> 00:17:12.119 in the Tubbs fire. That's an unbelievable thought 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.920 to think that not only are we sort of stewarding 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:18.240 the lands. in its sort of immediate environs, 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.819 but like on a landscape level, we could be safeguarding 00:17:21.819 --> 00:17:23.799 whole communities potentially, or at least being 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.400 a part of that effort. Yeah, exactly. And, um, 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:28.859 you know, I think I will tell people that most 00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:30.420 environmentally friendly thing you can do is 00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:32.519 stop your house from burning. Um, right. Like, 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:36.579 so, um, you know, defensible space is, is wonderful 00:17:36.579 --> 00:17:40.240 and necessary home hardening. Like if you're 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:42.140 a homeowner or a landowner, that's like where 00:17:42.140 --> 00:17:44.539 you should start is protect your house. Um, and 00:17:44.539 --> 00:17:47.559 then continue to continue to work out. Um, and 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.619 I think pile burning is really a great way for 00:17:50.619 --> 00:17:53.200 the rest of our community to kind of slowly start 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.059 chipping away. Um, you mentioned that, Hey, this 00:17:56.059 --> 00:17:58.519 mechanical thinning is really expensive and really 00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:01.940 time consuming and really energy. Um, but we're, 00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:04.400 we're going on scale. So for, for a lot of folks 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:06.240 in Sonoma County, they have a, you know, five 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.220 acres, 10 acres, and they can really start to 00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:11.180 work on it themselves, hold community events, 00:18:11.380 --> 00:18:14.539 um, ask the good fire alliance for support. Um, 00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:17.410 And I think pile burning is just like a really 00:18:17.410 --> 00:18:20.369 great way to build people's comfortability with 00:18:20.369 --> 00:18:23.730 fire, right? Hey, there's a contained area. It's 00:18:23.730 --> 00:18:25.269 going to stay in this area. I can bring a hose. 00:18:25.349 --> 00:18:28.089 I got a shovel. I can start this with a newspaper 00:18:28.089 --> 00:18:31.289 and a lighter. And I just have my garden hose 00:18:31.289 --> 00:18:33.490 and I'm actually doing it while it's pouring 00:18:33.490 --> 00:18:36.230 rain. So I'm really... You feel super safe. I 00:18:36.230 --> 00:18:38.509 feel super safe. It can be done in a really, 00:18:38.549 --> 00:18:43.009 really safe way. And it allows people to... build 00:18:43.009 --> 00:18:44.789 their comfortability. It allows them to bring 00:18:44.789 --> 00:18:47.390 their kids out and roast some marshmallows over, 00:18:47.529 --> 00:18:49.529 hey, maybe it's a little bit bigger than a campfire, 00:18:49.650 --> 00:18:53.730 but... Well, bonfire, you know, parties were 00:18:53.730 --> 00:18:56.890 a long -term, you know, love of a community, 00:18:57.029 --> 00:18:59.170 right? That's a good time. Exactly, yeah, and 00:18:59.170 --> 00:19:01.710 so it just provides an opportunity for community. 00:19:01.750 --> 00:19:03.970 How many people sit around a campfire together? 00:19:04.130 --> 00:19:05.990 How many people, you know, I think some probably 00:19:05.990 --> 00:19:08.230 the first human gatherings, right, probably involve 00:19:08.230 --> 00:19:11.119 fire of cooking food. Well, in the same way that 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:13.319 you're taking pile burns and you're saying, oh, 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:16.980 maybe as a fringe benefit, we can also pile them 00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:19.160 on invasive seeds and maybe get them out of the 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.259 ground. Maybe from a campfire perspective, we 00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:24.460 love a campfire. We love sitting around it. Why 00:19:24.460 --> 00:19:28.180 not have that also be part of you hardening your 00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:31.240 home, right? It's nice to take something that 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:34.500 you love and then know that it also has a bigger 00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:37.380 purpose. Yeah, and for land stewardship and for 00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:40.420 staff of about... four that are stewarding 3000 00:19:40.420 --> 00:19:44.319 acres. Um, and, uh, you know, also building maintenance 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:46.720 and road maintenance and keeping finding funding. 00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:50.559 Um, we have to stack our benefits, um, and we 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:53.539 have to rely on community. And, um, I, I think 00:19:53.539 --> 00:19:55.180 that's the same with everybody, right? Like it's 00:19:55.180 --> 00:19:58.880 such a big undertaking to steward land. Um, and 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.940 we also have the rest of our lives to try and 00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:04.559 go live. So bringing people together to steward 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:07.970 land, um, And using fire as an opportunity to 00:20:07.970 --> 00:20:10.009 bring people together and create these multiple 00:20:10.009 --> 00:20:12.630 effects. One of the other things that we're doing 00:20:12.630 --> 00:20:15.329 and I think is fairly feasible is the opportunity 00:20:15.329 --> 00:20:18.829 to reintroduce native plants in those burn scars. 00:20:19.549 --> 00:20:22.750 So, right, let's say I built a pile on a bunch 00:20:22.750 --> 00:20:25.089 of French broom and I burnt it out and now I 00:20:25.089 --> 00:20:27.069 killed the seed bank and we have a little four 00:20:27.069 --> 00:20:30.289 foot by four foot square circle -y thing that 00:20:30.289 --> 00:20:33.670 is charcoal and bare ground. And there's no seeds 00:20:33.670 --> 00:20:37.630 there. So I can either wait and wait for the 00:20:37.630 --> 00:20:40.069 thistles. I swear thistle seeds will find your 00:20:40.069 --> 00:20:45.509 burn pile scar. Or we can throw some native seeds 00:20:45.509 --> 00:20:48.950 in there and mix the soil up and establish some 00:20:48.950 --> 00:20:52.529 native grasses in that area before. We're really 00:20:52.529 --> 00:20:55.369 fortunate to have a nursery and a native grass 00:20:55.369 --> 00:20:57.750 growing program here at Pepperwood. So really 00:20:57.750 --> 00:21:00.869 we've just blended these two ideas of pile burning 00:21:00.869 --> 00:21:04.230 and native grass plug growing and put them together. 00:21:04.369 --> 00:21:08.829 And the results that we've had so far are incredible. 00:21:08.970 --> 00:21:12.690 The grasses seem to love the competition -free, 00:21:12.849 --> 00:21:17.369 nutrient -rich soil that is where the pile burn 00:21:17.369 --> 00:21:21.309 was. And those plants are thriving. And then 00:21:21.309 --> 00:21:24.589 a lot of times we plant them in January. They're 00:21:24.589 --> 00:21:28.000 going to set seed in May. and then the first 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.400 seeds laying down in this blank ground are native 00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:34.180 grass seeds so we're starting to establish that 00:21:34.180 --> 00:21:36.359 now we can go back four years five years later 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:37.700 i think we've been doing it for about five years 00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:40.680 now i can still see where we plugged native grasses 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:42.980 into those burn piles some annual grasses are 00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:46.200 moving in but the dominant species in those scars 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:48.539 are native perennial grasses. Well, and you're 00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:50.259 doing some great observation with that, but I 00:21:50.259 --> 00:21:52.799 think we're also taking that a step further. 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:56.079 Isn't there a researcher who's doing a bit of 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:58.519 analysis on some of the previous burn piles, 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:00.579 some of which have been planted, some of which 00:22:00.579 --> 00:22:03.339 have not been planted? So that's something that 00:22:03.339 --> 00:22:05.170 we might actually... be seeing some data from, 00:22:05.250 --> 00:22:07.730 right? Yeah, yeah. Some researchers over at UC 00:22:07.730 --> 00:22:10.630 Davis are really looking into that kind of as 00:22:10.630 --> 00:22:12.529 a small research project, potentially piloting 00:22:12.529 --> 00:22:15.049 into a dissertation project that might be a little 00:22:15.049 --> 00:22:17.890 bit more involved. And if seeding can work, what 00:22:17.890 --> 00:22:21.329 maybe those native plants adding can do to the 00:22:21.329 --> 00:22:24.390 soil microbial, like we can get really involved. 00:22:24.569 --> 00:22:25.930 And I think there's a lot of interesting things 00:22:25.930 --> 00:22:28.569 happening with like soil microbes and native 00:22:28.569 --> 00:22:32.329 plants and what those need. And so. trying to 00:22:32.329 --> 00:22:34.690 especially in a post burn ground trying to get 00:22:34.690 --> 00:22:37.809 those native plants in established first to hopefully 00:22:37.809 --> 00:22:41.509 reintroduce or create the connectivity of those 00:22:42.089 --> 00:22:44.710 potential fungal, bacterial kind of benefits 00:22:44.710 --> 00:22:47.049 that those soils have. Ah, the complexity of 00:22:47.049 --> 00:22:50.029 an ecosystem. Yeah. So much to analyze. And that's 00:22:50.029 --> 00:22:52.170 getting way above my pay grade. I catch things 00:22:52.170 --> 00:22:54.910 on fire. Well, that's why we partner with people 00:22:54.910 --> 00:22:56.829 at UC Davis who can maybe tell us about that. 00:22:56.890 --> 00:22:59.609 So great. You've already touched on a lot of 00:22:59.609 --> 00:23:02.970 the community connectivity, but what would you 00:23:02.970 --> 00:23:06.559 say makes this work possible? in the long term 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:11.160 yeah community well I really do I do think that 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.220 it's people I remember the first like broadcast 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:16.720 prescribed burn I went to in Humboldt County 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:19.220 and it was really cool in the burn but like the 00:23:19.220 --> 00:23:20.859 part that captured me after was the amount of 00:23:20.859 --> 00:23:22.480 people that came together there was kids running 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.980 around there was the you know the grandparents 00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:28.299 made you know barbecued a bunch of food and made 00:23:28.299 --> 00:23:34.019 a big Food potluck for everybody that was working, 00:23:34.259 --> 00:23:37.779 dogs running around, kids running around, firefighters, 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:42.599 old ranching families, some indigenous community 00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:47.559 members, old hippies that had moved to Humboldt 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:51.420 County in the 70s, all sharing a meal together 00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:55.619 around this idea of fire. Earlier, before we 00:23:55.619 --> 00:23:57.299 got on the mic, you mentioned barn raisings. 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:00.039 And it really has that same feel. It's like, 00:24:00.099 --> 00:24:03.039 we can't do this by ourselves. We need a community 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.279 around us. And so it creates the community, essentially. 00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:09.579 The project itself is what drives people being 00:24:09.579 --> 00:24:12.740 close to each other. Yeah. And here at Pepperwood, 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:15.359 we would not be able to get... almost anything 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.900 done without our volunteers and our community 00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:20.339 that comes to our support. And we feel that same 00:24:20.339 --> 00:24:22.539 obligation to our community, right? So when people 00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:25.900 reach out to us, hey, what do you think we should 00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:27.119 do about this? You know, I might not have the 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:28.519 right answer, but I'll try and point you in the 00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:30.019 right direction. We'll try and offer our resources 00:24:30.019 --> 00:24:32.180 support. We go to everybody's prescribed burden 00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:34.079 that we can to support with our resources and 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:36.559 our time and our energy, because we really do 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:39.099 believe that this work needs community around 00:24:39.099 --> 00:24:40.940 it. And as soon as you start engaging with it, 00:24:41.019 --> 00:24:43.220 it's really clear. There's not anybody that I've 00:24:43.220 --> 00:24:45.039 worked with that. thinks they can do it by themselves. 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:47.980 Hopefully there's not too many that want to because 00:24:47.980 --> 00:24:51.400 it's nicer in a group. Yeah. And we, you know, 00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:55.539 I would really encourage folks to, we offer pile 00:24:55.539 --> 00:24:58.099 burn workshops. I'll host two, maybe three pile 00:24:58.099 --> 00:25:00.240 burn workshops at Pepperwood. I'll oftentimes 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.319 go out to different areas of the county that 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:03.980 it's a little far to get to Pepperwood and offer 00:25:03.980 --> 00:25:07.759 those pile burn workshops as well. Fire Forward 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.099 offers a number of trainings. And then through 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:12.640 our volunteer work days, the first Saturday of 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:15.779 the month, we do almost all of our native grass 00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:17.680 work happens because of volunteers. And we do 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.019 it with our volunteers. We collect seeds. We 00:25:20.019 --> 00:25:25.400 clean seeds. We propagate seeds. We plant into 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.819 burn piles. And then we start all back over again 00:25:28.819 --> 00:25:31.460 and do it again. So it's really fun to watch 00:25:31.460 --> 00:25:34.859 volunteers engage with this process, whether 00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:36.220 it be from the plant side, whether it be from 00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:38.019 the fire side or whatever their interests are. 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.180 It really is bringing these. Different folks 00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:43.740 with different skill sets together with this 00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:45.920 kind of common goal of making our communities 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.099 fire safe and restoring our ecological processes. 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:51.619 Right. So yeah, through those volunteer work 00:25:51.619 --> 00:25:54.160 days, yeah, you can either join in on the grass 00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:56.420 seed part of it, or I think there's also opportunities 00:25:56.420 --> 00:25:59.259 with that to help us. build our burn piles and 00:25:59.259 --> 00:26:02.839 collect our our you know scattered wood our our 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:05.279 extra fuel right so yeah whichever part you're 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.500 the most interested in or both and burning piles 00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:10.079 um a huge huge portion of our piles have been 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:13.380 burnt by volunteers um i encourage folks to get 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:15.640 involved with the gfa that's usually how my volunteers 00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:19.809 come from um and i think if you go to our Good 00:26:19.809 --> 00:26:22.829 Fire frequently asked questions on the Pepperwood 00:26:22.829 --> 00:26:25.809 website, there is a link to that listserv there. 00:26:26.170 --> 00:26:27.869 Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that. Yeah. 00:26:27.910 --> 00:26:32.150 The Good Fire FAQ is a great article that I think 00:26:32.150 --> 00:26:35.390 you helped generate. It was, I think it originally 00:26:35.390 --> 00:26:38.910 came up last year, last summer, but very accessible 00:26:38.910 --> 00:26:41.750 on the website. And in that is embedded another 00:26:41.750 --> 00:26:45.230 really great resource, which is a video that 00:26:45.230 --> 00:26:48.450 includes you and Michael, but also Clint McKay 00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:50.990 from our Native Advisory Council. Native Advisory 00:26:50.990 --> 00:26:55.170 Council. And talking about how that was also 00:26:55.170 --> 00:26:57.890 the first cultural burn that took place at Pepperwood. 00:26:58.029 --> 00:27:01.730 And so really fun. If you're curious about what 00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:04.029 it looks like to have... The first in recent 00:27:04.029 --> 00:27:06.009 history. In recent history. Yes, fair. Yes, fair. 00:27:06.009 --> 00:27:08.849 Yes, absolutely. But yeah, if you're curious 00:27:08.849 --> 00:27:11.789 what it looks like to have even a broadcast burn 00:27:11.789 --> 00:27:16.509 on... on a piece of land, it's beautiful. It's 00:27:16.509 --> 00:27:18.650 not terrifying at all. So that's a really nice 00:27:18.650 --> 00:27:22.150 little resource there as well. Yeah. And I think, 00:27:22.309 --> 00:27:24.190 you know, if people are scared of fire, go watch 00:27:24.190 --> 00:27:26.750 a prescribed burn, go do a pile burn. You'll 00:27:26.750 --> 00:27:29.549 fall asleep. Engage yourself. Yeah. I mean, I 00:27:29.549 --> 00:27:33.789 think rightfully so people have a fear of fire. 00:27:33.869 --> 00:27:35.890 I mean, especially in our community that has 00:27:35.890 --> 00:27:38.369 experienced traumatic wildfires. And we also 00:27:38.369 --> 00:27:41.089 have a history of media sensationalizing fires. 00:27:42.029 --> 00:27:45.039 As you mentioned. You will fall asleep if you 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:46.940 want to take a nap during a prescribed fire. 00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:51.740 A lot of times it's really slow and low and moving 00:27:51.740 --> 00:27:53.319 really slow. Sometimes there's a little bits 00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:54.859 of excitement and that's why people are there 00:27:54.859 --> 00:27:57.019 and you got to be paying attention. But yeah, 00:27:57.099 --> 00:28:01.000 it goes on for hours and hours and it moves like 00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:03.359 it just creeps along. So you're in it for the 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.099 whole long haul there. And so it's great. I mean, 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:09.420 if you're coming from a place of like... the 00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:13.519 intensity and the fear of fire. I mean, nothing 00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:16.900 like a boring old prescribed burn to remind you 00:28:16.900 --> 00:28:20.619 that fire can be a really truly controlled thing 00:28:20.619 --> 00:28:23.579 if you are approaching it carefully. planned 00:28:23.579 --> 00:28:26.299 it well, which as, you know, one of the first 00:28:26.299 --> 00:28:28.640 burn bosses in California, if not the first, 00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:30.819 you know, you've gotten the training in it to 00:28:30.819 --> 00:28:33.220 know how to set things up for success, right? 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.039 Yeah. And I'm, you know, hugely fortunate. There's 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:40.259 a lot of fire knowledge in our state. And I'm 00:28:40.259 --> 00:28:43.500 fortunate to have some wonderful leaders and 00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:47.799 mentors. And we're super fortunate to have two 00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:51.099 awesome, like, champions of prescribed fire in 00:28:51.099 --> 00:28:54.309 this county. And that's Sasha Burleman, Dr. Sasha 00:28:54.309 --> 00:28:58.210 Burleman from Audubon Canyon Ranch and Chief 00:28:58.210 --> 00:29:04.410 Marshall Tuberville from both CAL FIRE and Northern 00:29:04.410 --> 00:29:07.470 Sonoma County Fire District, which have, you 00:29:07.470 --> 00:29:10.309 know, you need leaders to kind of push boundaries. 00:29:10.390 --> 00:29:13.529 And we're really fortunate to have some strong 00:29:13.529 --> 00:29:18.470 leadership in this community to help push. the 00:29:18.470 --> 00:29:21.089 positive fire narrative. All right. So you've 00:29:21.089 --> 00:29:22.630 got, you know, we've got a building community, 00:29:22.690 --> 00:29:25.890 a growing community of people, including our 00:29:25.890 --> 00:29:27.730 volunteers who are supporting this. We've got 00:29:27.730 --> 00:29:30.849 the community leadership from people like Dr. 00:29:31.009 --> 00:29:35.329 Burlman and Marshall Tuberville. And then what 00:29:35.329 --> 00:29:37.789 about funding? Where does the funding come from? 00:29:37.829 --> 00:29:40.650 Is this just from our Pepperwood donors? And 00:29:40.650 --> 00:29:43.410 I don't say just. I mean, is it from the general 00:29:43.410 --> 00:29:46.710 fund? Does this also include some grant funding? 00:29:46.789 --> 00:29:49.789 Is that part of your job is to kind of help fund 00:29:49.789 --> 00:29:53.269 what we need? Yeah, absolutely. Grants come in, 00:29:53.309 --> 00:29:55.670 especially around equipment and stuff and implementation. 00:29:56.069 --> 00:30:00.769 There's government support programs. Our local 00:30:00.769 --> 00:30:04.740 RCDs are really supportive of this. Cal Fire 00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:10.500 has funding for this. NRCS, which is a federal 00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:15.019 agency that supports natural resource conservation, 00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:18.519 puts funding toward this. We've gotten funding 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:22.720 from the Coastal Conservancy or Coastal Commission. 00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:28.500 And yeah, just other partners. And then a lot 00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:30.759 of times it's, you know, you scratch my back, 00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:33.279 I'll scratch your back kind of thing where. Hey, 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:35.119 I need some extra people. I need another engine. 00:30:35.480 --> 00:30:38.500 Can you come and support us? So it's a lot of 00:30:38.500 --> 00:30:41.160 volunteer. The time, the people, like the people 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:42.980 that show up to volunteer, it's like mostly a 00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:45.619 volunteer activity. Like a lot of the people 00:30:45.619 --> 00:30:47.019 aren't, some people are getting paid by their 00:30:47.019 --> 00:30:48.779 agencies and stuff, but a lot of the people aren't 00:30:48.779 --> 00:30:54.019 getting paid. Also huge credit to our local fire 00:30:54.019 --> 00:30:57.380 districts that have been really big supportive, 00:30:57.559 --> 00:30:59.829 especially with. resources when we need them, 00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:02.329 such as engines and hoses and stuff like that. 00:31:02.470 --> 00:31:04.609 Well, that really runs the gamut, right? From 00:31:04.609 --> 00:31:08.109 grassroots support all the way up to institutional 00:31:08.109 --> 00:31:11.730 support. So it sounds like there's a lot of really 00:31:11.730 --> 00:31:14.130 big players who are in fire of this process, 00:31:14.230 --> 00:31:16.250 which is good because it's a big one. It's a 00:31:16.250 --> 00:31:20.910 big undertaking to get this system back to a 00:31:20.910 --> 00:31:24.349 place where it can function properly. So what 00:31:24.349 --> 00:31:28.569 an incredible work you're doing. So I think we've 00:31:28.569 --> 00:31:33.670 taken baby steps in this journey of bringing 00:31:33.670 --> 00:31:35.829 fire back to this community, the Sonoma County 00:31:35.829 --> 00:31:38.670 community, the greater North Bay community. I 00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:40.170 think there's still a lot of need for engagement 00:31:40.170 --> 00:31:43.170 with our indigenous communities. I think their 00:31:43.170 --> 00:31:47.130 wealth of knowledge and just inherent right to 00:31:47.130 --> 00:31:49.710 be able to burn on a lot of these lands and have 00:31:49.710 --> 00:31:52.670 access to a lot of these lands is very clear. 00:31:52.809 --> 00:31:56.279 And I think there's... Slowly, but surely there's 00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:57.980 some efforts being made and some connections 00:31:57.980 --> 00:32:01.400 being made. But I do think that's a section we 00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:05.440 need to continue to push a lot harder in. Getting 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:10.059 more research and more data and continue to study 00:32:10.059 --> 00:32:12.359 the long -term impacts and short -term impacts 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.500 so that we can have more documentation to prove 00:32:15.500 --> 00:32:18.480 these things, hopefully create legislation around 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.039 this, create more funding for it. Well, there's 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.220 still some challenges. Not everybody's on board. 00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:25.880 There's still some pushback from some community. 00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:30.960 So maybe also making sure that people hear the 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:35.460 good story about how fire can be a real benefit 00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:38.500 to us, especially in the face of massive wildfires 00:32:38.500 --> 00:32:40.839 and the concern over those. Yeah. And I think 00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:43.819 there was this really big effort right after 00:32:43.819 --> 00:32:47.119 our fires. And we haven't, I mean, we've had 00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:48.799 a few fires here and there, but nothing super 00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:51.930 damaging in recent years. the last couple of 00:32:51.930 --> 00:32:54.569 years. And I think people forget quickly. Let's 00:32:54.569 --> 00:32:56.529 keep that, let's keep the story alive. Yeah. 00:32:56.789 --> 00:33:00.049 Concern and the hope alive or the, what can be 00:33:00.049 --> 00:33:03.049 a benefit. Right. Um, and I think, yeah, just 00:33:03.049 --> 00:33:04.990 telling, telling the story is really important. 00:33:05.130 --> 00:33:08.609 So everyone can contribute to our process in 00:33:08.609 --> 00:33:11.349 this. And, um, I, I think I'm just kind of connect. 00:33:11.390 --> 00:33:14.029 I can end with this note is, uh, there's not 00:33:14.029 --> 00:33:16.130 many things in the world that you have like, 00:33:16.150 --> 00:33:21.450 uh, land stewards, research ecologists, big government 00:33:21.450 --> 00:33:25.109 agencies like Cal Fire and indigenous communities 00:33:25.109 --> 00:33:28.970 kind of all in agreement about something. And 00:33:28.970 --> 00:33:31.049 I think that one of the few things they're all 00:33:31.049 --> 00:33:34.089 in agreement about is we need to use fire as 00:33:34.089 --> 00:33:37.289 a tool to steward this land. All right. So, and 00:33:37.289 --> 00:33:39.289 as you say, baby steps, right? We're taking those 00:33:39.289 --> 00:33:41.390 baby steps and we're going to see where they 00:33:41.390 --> 00:33:44.089 lead. Yeah. Thank you so much, Devin, for helping 00:33:44.089 --> 00:33:47.430 tell us this story. Yeah. Thank you for having 00:33:47.430 --> 00:33:52.329 me and giving me your time. Thank you again to 00:33:52.329 --> 00:33:55.049 Devin Friedfell for joining us today on the Pepperwood 00:33:55.049 --> 00:33:57.910 podcast. If you have any questions about what 00:33:57.910 --> 00:33:59.890 we discussed or would like to tell us what you 00:33:59.890 --> 00:34:02.390 thought, you can send us an email at podcast 00:34:02.390 --> 00:34:06.450 at pepperwoodpreserve .org. Thank you also to 00:34:06.450 --> 00:34:08.329 Stephanie Antonoro, Pepperwood's communication 00:34:08.329 --> 00:34:11.010 coordinator, and the whole Pepperwood team for 00:34:11.010 --> 00:34:14.050 supporting the production of this podcast. And 00:34:14.050 --> 00:34:18.829 now it's time to play the Nature Sound Guess 00:34:18.829 --> 00:34:24.949 Who Game. Thank you to the Cornell Lab of Ornithology 00:34:24.949 --> 00:34:27.590 and Macaulay Library for the acorn woodpecker 00:34:27.590 --> 00:34:30.550 sound recorded by Bob McGuire that you just heard 00:34:30.550 --> 00:34:33.090 in the game theme, and for many other wonderful 00:34:33.090 --> 00:34:35.750 and expertly identified nature sounds that we 00:34:35.750 --> 00:34:38.889 use in the podcast. To refresh your memory, if 00:34:38.889 --> 00:34:41.690 you listened to our first episode, or to introduce 00:34:41.690 --> 00:34:43.949 it to you if you haven't, here's how the game 00:34:43.949 --> 00:34:46.730 works. At the end of each episode, I play a nature 00:34:46.730 --> 00:34:49.519 sound. You have the time between episodes to 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:53.380 guess or apply your knowledge or dive into some 00:34:53.380 --> 00:34:56.320 research, in short, to figure out which animal, 00:34:56.500 --> 00:35:00.280 vegetable, or mineral made that sound. You can 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:03.639 email your guesses to podcast at pepperwoodpreserve 00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:07.920 .org or respond to the corresponding post on 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:11.239 our Facebook or Instagram, or just hold on to 00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:14.820 that thought until I reveal the sound maker in 00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:18.110 the following episode. Last time, in our first 00:35:18.110 --> 00:35:22.590 episode, the nature sound sounded just like this. 00:35:33.070 --> 00:35:41.889 And the sound maker is the California toad, scientifically 00:35:41.889 --> 00:35:46.389 known as Anoraxis boreas halophilus. This is 00:35:46.389 --> 00:35:49.489 the release call of the California toad as it 00:35:49.489 --> 00:35:53.130 was grasped across its back. The clip comes from 00:35:53.130 --> 00:35:56.530 CaliforniaHerps .com, an excellent online resource 00:35:56.530 --> 00:36:00.449 created by Gary Nafis, and so does the following 00:36:00.449 --> 00:36:04.269 quote. A release call is produced by a male toad 00:36:04.269 --> 00:36:07.949 or an unreceptive female toad when a male toad 00:36:07.949 --> 00:36:11.329 or other animal gets on its back and grabs its 00:36:11.329 --> 00:36:14.670 sides in the position used for mating or amplexus. 00:36:15.230 --> 00:36:18.210 It's a toad's way of saying, get off my back, 00:36:18.369 --> 00:36:22.409 let go. So there it is. Whether you had correctly 00:36:22.409 --> 00:36:25.110 guessed or not, I hope you enjoyed the dulcet 00:36:25.110 --> 00:36:28.150 tones of the California toad asserting its personal 00:36:28.150 --> 00:36:32.269 space and agency. Now, to spark your curiosity 00:36:32.269 --> 00:36:36.130 once again, here comes the next sound challenge, 00:36:36.250 --> 00:36:39.750 a new nature sound that I will reveal the identity 00:36:39.750 --> 00:36:44.110 of at the end of episode three. Are you ready? 00:36:44.969 --> 00:36:51.289 Here it comes. Nature sound guess who in 3, 2, 00:36:51.690 --> 00:37:18.460 1. And one more time in 3, 2, 1. I wonder who 00:37:18.460 --> 00:37:21.739 that could be. All will be revealed next time. 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:24.639 Thank you again for joining us on the Pepperwood 00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.480 Podcast, and until next episode, don't forget 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:29.400 to keep your ears tuned into nature.