This is the Pepperwood Podcast, a production
of Pepperwood, a nonprofit conservation organization
based at a 3 ,200 -acre nature reserve near Santa
Rosa, California, in the heart of the traditional
homeland of the Wappo people. At Pepperwood,
we aim to inspire conservation through science.
And on this show, we talk to scientists, stewards,
and environmental educators about what they do
and how they do it. We hope to give you a glimpse
into the real experiences of folks who devote
their lives to taking care of local ecosystems
and sharing them with others. Welcome to the
second episode of the Pepperwood Podcast. I'm
Julianne, your host and part of the education
team here at Pepperwood, and I'm back with another
great conversation. Today we have a conversation
with Devin Friedfell, Assistant Preserve Manager
at Pepperwood and Certified California Burn Boss.
And therefore, what should we discuss if not
fire? The use of prescribed fire in land stewardship
is a big, complex topic, so I asked Devin to
start by telling us about just one of the many
practices that falls under that big umbrella,
namely pile burning. Hopefully, we can invite
Devin back to talk in detail about other related
practices like broadcast burns and wildfire recovery,
both of which are mentioned in this conversation
but not fully delved into. For today, believe
me, the practice of pile burning gives us plenty
to talk about. So let's get to it. We hope you
enjoy my conversation with Devin Friedfeld, which
took place in August of 2024. Devin, thank you
so much for sitting down with me today. And I'm
really looking forward to hearing about some
specific projects. But first... I would love
to hear from you just a perspective on fire in
general and like how we use fire, how fire has
been here in California before. I just Googled
fire in California and all I got was a bunch
of really depressing things about the history
of wildfires within the last decade. But that's
not history. That's almost... you know, that's
almost current events. So what is the history
of fire in California from somebody who is trained
in this sort of thing? Yeah, I mean, the history
of fire in California goes back since to the
dawn of time or since time immemorial, as some
folks like to say it. But really, there's clear
scientific evidence through... tree ring sampling,
through soil sampling, and then also most importantly
through indigenous storytelling and oral histories
of the people that have been on this land for
thousands of years and how they have very specific
uses and practices of fire that range immensely
throughout the state. And you just think of how
many different indigenous communities there were
pre -settlement in California, and they all had
very specific, unique fire practices for very
specific outcomes, and they largely varied. But
I think one thing that's consistent through them
is the use of humans using fire to steward the
land. That's a beautiful thing to think about,
is that fire was a good tool long before we thought
of it as this sort of destructive force that
we have to consider every day. Yeah, and then
during settlement times, there's some really
cool early journal documents from a lot of the
early settlers just talking about smoke in the
sky and coming and seeing burns. And then also
when the Spanish started the mission system,
stories about that. And it was really just this
Western perspective of that fire is bad. And
that's just kind of driven the narrative really
since then and has really created this culture
of fire suppression instead of stewarding with
fire. And that the results of the fire suppression
effort has led to fuel load accumulation. stressed
out plants because of competition and then also
not receiving kind of the healing benefits that
fire has brought. Yeah, we kind of got ourselves
a backlog of work to do. Yeah. You know, at least
some impacts from not having done this work that
had been being done for so long. And then we
get these big mega wildfires because of this
fuel loading and then you get more tree mortality
and you get your old growth trees. that are your
carbon sequesters dying, um, and then creating
more litter, um, and then leading to the next
catastrophic wildfire. And so it's like this
big mega destructive fire leads to the next big
negative destructive fire. Um, so it's this positive
feedback loop of like the lack of fires actually
leading to more destructive fires, um, instead
of using this, uh, this fire as a process, um,
that has stewarded this land for, um, countless
generations. Um, And I think one thing that's
been really apparent to me is watching the response
from the Tubbs fire from the ecology at Pepperwood
and just seeing how all of the native species
thrived in their own unique ways, whether it
be a mass production of the geophytes and bulbs.
popping up everywhere after the fire because
they finally are getting a nutrient flush and
some additional sunlight because the canopy has
been opened up to the oak trees, basil sprouting
and epicormic sprouting from their trunks to
wildflower blooms like I've never seen before.
And I could go on and on of just like all these
different ways that our California ecology responded.
There's some wildlife camera initial kind of
knowledge from Stephen Hamrick and Morgan Gray,
our wildlife team, that really showed, hey, after
the fires, we saw a really big increase in herbivores
and then a big increase in carnivores a few years
later. And just kind of watching that succession
just bounce back really fast. And seeing that
on a day -to -day basis was like, wow, these
plants know what to do more with fire. than we
humans do in our Western culture. And because
that fire knowledge has been lost in our culture,
but the plants, the animals, they remember. Well,
that's tremendous. Well, I know it's a big, big
undertaking to reintroduce this process in a
holistic way. So let's just take it one piece
at a time. One of the biggest projects that was
certainly one of the most visually... obvious
elements that we see as we walk around Pepperwood
is this burn pile process that you've been generating
these burn piles and burning them and then processing
them afterward. So I'm very curious about them.
Let's just start with who or which species are
getting piled up and burned in these burn piles.
Yeah, so these burn piles are really... first
step at addressing our fuels issue like I said
the fuel accumulation that happened because of
fire suppression has really put us in a place
where if we want to do a prescribed fire under
current conditions it will probably burn hotter
than we would want it to we might get high tree
mortality even if we're burning under the conditions
that we want our fuel loading is so high that
there could be some adverse ecological effects
So Clint McKay, the chair of our Native Advisory
Council and indigenous educator at Pepperwood,
he's talked to me about how cultural burns that
had happened in this area were really slow and
slow. Low intensity, slow moving. But that's
just not possible in our current forests, right?
Right. So you look at some of the fuel loading
and it's not really possible. our pile burning
effort has really been this first approach of
getting fuels reduction in um So what we're going
and doing is we're actually moving through, we're
really focusing on our oak woodlands first and
kind of cutting out a lot of the dead down fuel
that had either happened over years of the lack
of fire and then also as a repercussion of both
the Tubbs and the Kincaid fire, right? So that
killed a lot of trees and then we're kind of
left with more fuel loading left over, which
is basically, you know, setting us up for the
next big... burn that wildfire. So we're going
through and cutting this material, building roughly
four foot by four foot by four foot little cube
piles. They vary a little bit. And then placing
them throughout the forest in areas where when
they burn, they're actually not going to cause
a lot of damage to some of these large trees.
So we're not putting them up at the base of a
tree. We're waiting for those openings in the
canopy, setting them under there. A lot of times
we're able to target these piles and put them
on some invasive species that some species that
we maybe don't want um so because those piles
are burning really hot we can actually use them
to potentially benefit um and knocking back some
other vegetation that we maybe don't don't want
so uh french broom is a good example if we have
like a little patch of french broom um and there's
a bunch of little germinants coming up we can
place that pile on that and use the pile to reduce
fuel, but also target some of our invasive species.
Harding grass is another species that we'll do
that with. So yeah, just really trying to not
just think about these piles as fuels reduction
avenues, but it's really what they're meant for,
but how else can we use pile burning and this
fire in this way that is maybe not historically
hasn't been a big part of the fire process through
time when we're going through. But then neither
were some of these invasive species, right? Exactly,
right? So things are a little different. We're
going through and kind of doing stuff at scale,
like a 70 -acre scale, 100 -acre scale, where
we're going and cutting up the dead wood, piling
it across 100 acres, and we get left with 3 ,000
burn piles. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's
a lot. So that's even, I mean, we're looking
at a 3 ,200 acre preserve. We're not even. touching
most of that, right? Just even, you should say,
what, 100 acres? Yeah. And generate 3 ,000 piles.
That's an immense amount of work. Yeah. And how
long does it take to do some of that thinning
work? Yeah, so that thinning work, we usually
will contract out. We'll do some of it in -house.
We work with some really awesome partners, both
on the funding side to kind of support this work,
and also some really great skilled contractors
that'll come out and really listen, have ecologically
focus, and really... work with us to get the
end product that we want um and they you know
depending on how many people are out we the the
chainsaw mechanical work usually takes about
two weeks um and then burning about 3 000 piles
is more than probably a year's work our team
our restoration team here is pretty pretty small
um so last year we burnt over 2 000 piles i think
that was the most we've burnt um and um i just
um It was a lot of just myself last winter, but
I really leaned heavily on our partners and the
Good Fire Alliance volunteers. The Good Fire
Alliance is our Sonoma County Prescribed Burn
Association. So it is just a loose group of folks
that are on a listserv that are really interested
in bringing back fire in an ecologically minded
way. Some folks that maybe don't have access
to land, some folks that are maybe trying to
build their skill set, some maybe landowners
that are interested in bringing fire back to
their land. And so I have called on them a lot.
I've called on partners such as Fire Forward,
Regional Parks, State Parks, Laguna Foundation,
Land Paths. Oh my gosh. There's like a wide network.
It is really just like all the non -profit, environmental
non -profits and agent state, county, federal
agencies that are really interested in fire have
all really banded together to support each other
and built a really strong community around bringing
fire back in a good way. I've been, I mean, here
at Pepperwood, we're really fortunate to have
the... Our Native Advisory Council, which has
really helped guide us. And really, I think what
we're trying to get to with these pile burns
is something that our council is really supportive
of is, hey, yeah, let's get these fuels reduction
piles in to prepare the land best for future
cultural burns, right? Well, you're already getting
to my next question, which is how, as we do this
work, all these pile burns, these thousands of
pile burns, what is going to be the impact on
future stewardship work at Pepperwood? And so
it sounds like you're heading in that direction.
What are some of the possibilities if we continue
with this process? Yeah, that is our dream, right?
I think there's like, you know. Eight to 15 years
is the rough fire return interval in oak woodlands
in California is kind of what some of the literature
says. So if I get my fuels reduction, if we get
our fuels reduction down to a really good place,
hopefully we'll be doing our maintenance burns
with broadcast prescribed fire and cultural burning
and really helping the future stewardship of
the preserve and engaging with our council. supporting
their target goals with cultural burning with
food sovereignty goals but really feel it's our
responsibility to prepare the land as best as
possible for those things right a lot of those
practices aren't really feasible under current
conditions there's a lot of physical mechanical
work that needs to happen to reduce the fuel
loads to get to kind of look like it did pre
-settlement. And it's never going to look the
same. We have climate change, we have invasive
species, but trying to nudge the needle closer
to... At least functionally the way it used to
be. Functionally at least the way it used to
be and really providing that space for cultural
practitioners to practice what they've practiced
on this. landscape for thousands of years i actually
i really do think that is going to be the best
ecological like stewardship process as possible
because it's a co -evolution thing that happened
right people burning plants evolving to those
practices so we really need to work to get back
to those practices to do the best for the plants
and animals and soil and air quality and water
quality and our fish downstream. So really, I
think it's all really connected and bringing
back fire in that way that it had historically
been here is. huge key to it yeah that's a big
goal so it's like the all of this physical and
mechanical and pretty I assume it's pretty costly
work to be doing these mechanical thinning and
then compiling it into burns but this this phase
of it is like an investment in the long -term
ability of then maybe broadcast burns coming
back to the forest and being able to do a lot
of that work for us yeah yeah and so That's the
ideal goal. I think another really big piece
of that is creating Pepperwood as a strategic
fuel break for future wildfires. We're working
with Cal Fire. We're working with Sonoma County
Fire District. We're working with Northern Sonoma
County Fire District. We're working with Fire
Forward. But really, Cal Fire Chief Nichols has
called out Pepperwood as a potential strategic
fuel break. We have grassy ridges along the Myakama.
um mountains which is not super common um we
have a road system that runs right down the middle
yeah yeah there's access for all the vehicles
that would be required yeah right and so when
wildfires do break out um we work closely with
cal fire they help us on a lot of these projects
so they know pepperwood property well they know
where our projects have happened they know where
our road system are and so that they can strategically
use pepperwood in those you know, emergency scenarios
to make a stand. We saw that during the Kincaid
fire. They put in about 15 miles of bulldozer
lines and really stopped the Kincaid fire from
dropping back down into Mark West Springs and
creating that same corridor effect that happened
in the Tubbs fire. That's an unbelievable thought
to think that not only are we sort of stewarding
the lands. in its sort of immediate environs,
but like on a landscape level, we could be safeguarding
whole communities potentially, or at least being
a part of that effort. Yeah, exactly. And, um,
you know, I think I will tell people that most
environmentally friendly thing you can do is
stop your house from burning. Um, right. Like,
so, um, you know, defensible space is, is wonderful
and necessary home hardening. Like if you're
a homeowner or a landowner, that's like where
you should start is protect your house. Um, and
then continue to continue to work out. Um, and
I think pile burning is really a great way for
the rest of our community to kind of slowly start
chipping away. Um, you mentioned that, Hey, this
mechanical thinning is really expensive and really
time consuming and really energy. Um, but we're,
we're going on scale. So for, for a lot of folks
in Sonoma County, they have a, you know, five
acres, 10 acres, and they can really start to
work on it themselves, hold community events,
um, ask the good fire alliance for support. Um,
And I think pile burning is just like a really
great way to build people's comfortability with
fire, right? Hey, there's a contained area. It's
going to stay in this area. I can bring a hose.
I got a shovel. I can start this with a newspaper
and a lighter. And I just have my garden hose
and I'm actually doing it while it's pouring
rain. So I'm really... You feel super safe. I
feel super safe. It can be done in a really,
really safe way. And it allows people to... build
their comfortability. It allows them to bring
their kids out and roast some marshmallows over,
hey, maybe it's a little bit bigger than a campfire,
but... Well, bonfire, you know, parties were
a long -term, you know, love of a community,
right? That's a good time. Exactly, yeah, and
so it just provides an opportunity for community.
How many people sit around a campfire together?
How many people, you know, I think some probably
the first human gatherings, right, probably involve
fire of cooking food. Well, in the same way that
you're taking pile burns and you're saying, oh,
maybe as a fringe benefit, we can also pile them
on invasive seeds and maybe get them out of the
ground. Maybe from a campfire perspective, we
love a campfire. We love sitting around it. Why
not have that also be part of you hardening your
home, right? It's nice to take something that
you love and then know that it also has a bigger
purpose. Yeah, and for land stewardship and for
staff of about... four that are stewarding 3000
acres. Um, and, uh, you know, also building maintenance
and road maintenance and keeping finding funding.
Um, we have to stack our benefits, um, and we
have to rely on community. And, um, I, I think
that's the same with everybody, right? Like it's
such a big undertaking to steward land. Um, and
we also have the rest of our lives to try and
go live. So bringing people together to steward
land, um, And using fire as an opportunity to
bring people together and create these multiple
effects. One of the other things that we're doing
and I think is fairly feasible is the opportunity
to reintroduce native plants in those burn scars.
So, right, let's say I built a pile on a bunch
of French broom and I burnt it out and now I
killed the seed bank and we have a little four
foot by four foot square circle -y thing that
is charcoal and bare ground. And there's no seeds
there. So I can either wait and wait for the
thistles. I swear thistle seeds will find your
burn pile scar. Or we can throw some native seeds
in there and mix the soil up and establish some
native grasses in that area before. We're really
fortunate to have a nursery and a native grass
growing program here at Pepperwood. So really
we've just blended these two ideas of pile burning
and native grass plug growing and put them together.
And the results that we've had so far are incredible.
The grasses seem to love the competition -free,
nutrient -rich soil that is where the pile burn
was. And those plants are thriving. And then
a lot of times we plant them in January. They're
going to set seed in May. and then the first
seeds laying down in this blank ground are native
grass seeds so we're starting to establish that
now we can go back four years five years later
i think we've been doing it for about five years
now i can still see where we plugged native grasses
into those burn piles some annual grasses are
moving in but the dominant species in those scars
are native perennial grasses. Well, and you're
doing some great observation with that, but I
think we're also taking that a step further.
Isn't there a researcher who's doing a bit of
analysis on some of the previous burn piles,
some of which have been planted, some of which
have not been planted? So that's something that
we might actually... be seeing some data from,
right? Yeah, yeah. Some researchers over at UC
Davis are really looking into that kind of as
a small research project, potentially piloting
into a dissertation project that might be a little
bit more involved. And if seeding can work, what
maybe those native plants adding can do to the
soil microbial, like we can get really involved.
And I think there's a lot of interesting things
happening with like soil microbes and native
plants and what those need. And so. trying to
especially in a post burn ground trying to get
those native plants in established first to hopefully
reintroduce or create the connectivity of those
potential fungal, bacterial kind of benefits
that those soils have. Ah, the complexity of
an ecosystem. Yeah. So much to analyze. And that's
getting way above my pay grade. I catch things
on fire. Well, that's why we partner with people
at UC Davis who can maybe tell us about that.
So great. You've already touched on a lot of
the community connectivity, but what would you
say makes this work possible? in the long term
yeah community well I really do I do think that
it's people I remember the first like broadcast
prescribed burn I went to in Humboldt County
and it was really cool in the burn but like the
part that captured me after was the amount of
people that came together there was kids running
around there was the you know the grandparents
made you know barbecued a bunch of food and made
a big Food potluck for everybody that was working,
dogs running around, kids running around, firefighters,
old ranching families, some indigenous community
members, old hippies that had moved to Humboldt
County in the 70s, all sharing a meal together
around this idea of fire. Earlier, before we
got on the mic, you mentioned barn raisings.
And it really has that same feel. It's like,
we can't do this by ourselves. We need a community
around us. And so it creates the community, essentially.
The project itself is what drives people being
close to each other. Yeah. And here at Pepperwood,
we would not be able to get... almost anything
done without our volunteers and our community
that comes to our support. And we feel that same
obligation to our community, right? So when people
reach out to us, hey, what do you think we should
do about this? You know, I might not have the
right answer, but I'll try and point you in the
right direction. We'll try and offer our resources
support. We go to everybody's prescribed burden
that we can to support with our resources and
our time and our energy, because we really do
believe that this work needs community around
it. And as soon as you start engaging with it,
it's really clear. There's not anybody that I've
worked with that. thinks they can do it by themselves.
Hopefully there's not too many that want to because
it's nicer in a group. Yeah. And we, you know,
I would really encourage folks to, we offer pile
burn workshops. I'll host two, maybe three pile
burn workshops at Pepperwood. I'll oftentimes
go out to different areas of the county that
it's a little far to get to Pepperwood and offer
those pile burn workshops as well. Fire Forward
offers a number of trainings. And then through
our volunteer work days, the first Saturday of
the month, we do almost all of our native grass
work happens because of volunteers. And we do
it with our volunteers. We collect seeds. We
clean seeds. We propagate seeds. We plant into
burn piles. And then we start all back over again
and do it again. So it's really fun to watch
volunteers engage with this process, whether
it be from the plant side, whether it be from
the fire side or whatever their interests are.
It really is bringing these. Different folks
with different skill sets together with this
kind of common goal of making our communities
fire safe and restoring our ecological processes.
Right. So yeah, through those volunteer work
days, yeah, you can either join in on the grass
seed part of it, or I think there's also opportunities
with that to help us. build our burn piles and
collect our our you know scattered wood our our
extra fuel right so yeah whichever part you're
the most interested in or both and burning piles
um a huge huge portion of our piles have been
burnt by volunteers um i encourage folks to get
involved with the gfa that's usually how my volunteers
come from um and i think if you go to our Good
Fire frequently asked questions on the Pepperwood
website, there is a link to that listserv there.
Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that. Yeah.
The Good Fire FAQ is a great article that I think
you helped generate. It was, I think it originally
came up last year, last summer, but very accessible
on the website. And in that is embedded another
really great resource, which is a video that
includes you and Michael, but also Clint McKay
from our Native Advisory Council. Native Advisory
Council. And talking about how that was also
the first cultural burn that took place at Pepperwood.
And so really fun. If you're curious about what
it looks like to have... The first in recent
history. In recent history. Yes, fair. Yes, fair.
Yes, absolutely. But yeah, if you're curious
what it looks like to have even a broadcast burn
on... on a piece of land, it's beautiful. It's
not terrifying at all. So that's a really nice
little resource there as well. Yeah. And I think,
you know, if people are scared of fire, go watch
a prescribed burn, go do a pile burn. You'll
fall asleep. Engage yourself. Yeah. I mean, I
think rightfully so people have a fear of fire.
I mean, especially in our community that has
experienced traumatic wildfires. And we also
have a history of media sensationalizing fires.
As you mentioned. You will fall asleep if you
want to take a nap during a prescribed fire.
A lot of times it's really slow and low and moving
really slow. Sometimes there's a little bits
of excitement and that's why people are there
and you got to be paying attention. But yeah,
it goes on for hours and hours and it moves like
it just creeps along. So you're in it for the
whole long haul there. And so it's great. I mean,
if you're coming from a place of like... the
intensity and the fear of fire. I mean, nothing
like a boring old prescribed burn to remind you
that fire can be a really truly controlled thing
if you are approaching it carefully. planned
it well, which as, you know, one of the first
burn bosses in California, if not the first,
you know, you've gotten the training in it to
know how to set things up for success, right?
Yeah. And I'm, you know, hugely fortunate. There's
a lot of fire knowledge in our state. And I'm
fortunate to have some wonderful leaders and
mentors. And we're super fortunate to have two
awesome, like, champions of prescribed fire in
this county. And that's Sasha Burleman, Dr. Sasha
Burleman from Audubon Canyon Ranch and Chief
Marshall Tuberville from both CAL FIRE and Northern
Sonoma County Fire District, which have, you
know, you need leaders to kind of push boundaries.
And we're really fortunate to have some strong
leadership in this community to help push. the
positive fire narrative. All right. So you've
got, you know, we've got a building community,
a growing community of people, including our
volunteers who are supporting this. We've got
the community leadership from people like Dr.
Burlman and Marshall Tuberville. And then what
about funding? Where does the funding come from?
Is this just from our Pepperwood donors? And
I don't say just. I mean, is it from the general
fund? Does this also include some grant funding?
Is that part of your job is to kind of help fund
what we need? Yeah, absolutely. Grants come in,
especially around equipment and stuff and implementation.
There's government support programs. Our local
RCDs are really supportive of this. Cal Fire
has funding for this. NRCS, which is a federal
agency that supports natural resource conservation,
puts funding toward this. We've gotten funding
from the Coastal Conservancy or Coastal Commission.
And yeah, just other partners. And then a lot
of times it's, you know, you scratch my back,
I'll scratch your back kind of thing where. Hey,
I need some extra people. I need another engine.
Can you come and support us? So it's a lot of
volunteer. The time, the people, like the people
that show up to volunteer, it's like mostly a
volunteer activity. Like a lot of the people
aren't, some people are getting paid by their
agencies and stuff, but a lot of the people aren't
getting paid. Also huge credit to our local fire
districts that have been really big supportive,
especially with. resources when we need them,
such as engines and hoses and stuff like that.
Well, that really runs the gamut, right? From
grassroots support all the way up to institutional
support. So it sounds like there's a lot of really
big players who are in fire of this process,
which is good because it's a big one. It's a
big undertaking to get this system back to a
place where it can function properly. So what
an incredible work you're doing. So I think we've
taken baby steps in this journey of bringing
fire back to this community, the Sonoma County
community, the greater North Bay community. I
think there's still a lot of need for engagement
with our indigenous communities. I think their
wealth of knowledge and just inherent right to
be able to burn on a lot of these lands and have
access to a lot of these lands is very clear.
And I think there's... Slowly, but surely there's
some efforts being made and some connections
being made. But I do think that's a section we
need to continue to push a lot harder in. Getting
more research and more data and continue to study
the long -term impacts and short -term impacts
so that we can have more documentation to prove
these things, hopefully create legislation around
this, create more funding for it. Well, there's
still some challenges. Not everybody's on board.
There's still some pushback from some community.
So maybe also making sure that people hear the
good story about how fire can be a real benefit
to us, especially in the face of massive wildfires
and the concern over those. Yeah. And I think
there was this really big effort right after
our fires. And we haven't, I mean, we've had
a few fires here and there, but nothing super
damaging in recent years. the last couple of
years. And I think people forget quickly. Let's
keep that, let's keep the story alive. Yeah.
Concern and the hope alive or the, what can be
a benefit. Right. Um, and I think, yeah, just
telling, telling the story is really important.
So everyone can contribute to our process in
this. And, um, I, I think I'm just kind of connect.
I can end with this note is, uh, there's not
many things in the world that you have like,
uh, land stewards, research ecologists, big government
agencies like Cal Fire and indigenous communities
kind of all in agreement about something. And
I think that one of the few things they're all
in agreement about is we need to use fire as
a tool to steward this land. All right. So, and
as you say, baby steps, right? We're taking those
baby steps and we're going to see where they
lead. Yeah. Thank you so much, Devin, for helping
tell us this story. Yeah. Thank you for having
me and giving me your time. Thank you again to
Devin Friedfell for joining us today on the Pepperwood
podcast. If you have any questions about what
we discussed or would like to tell us what you
thought, you can send us an email at podcast
at pepperwoodpreserve .org. Thank you also to
Stephanie Antonoro, Pepperwood's communication
coordinator, and the whole Pepperwood team for
supporting the production of this podcast. And
now it's time to play the Nature Sound Guess
Who Game. Thank you to the Cornell Lab of Ornithology
and Macaulay Library for the acorn woodpecker
sound recorded by Bob McGuire that you just heard
in the game theme, and for many other wonderful
and expertly identified nature sounds that we
use in the podcast. To refresh your memory, if
you listened to our first episode, or to introduce
it to you if you haven't, here's how the game
works. At the end of each episode, I play a nature
sound. You have the time between episodes to
guess or apply your knowledge or dive into some
research, in short, to figure out which animal,
vegetable, or mineral made that sound. You can
email your guesses to podcast at pepperwoodpreserve
.org or respond to the corresponding post on
our Facebook or Instagram, or just hold on to
that thought until I reveal the sound maker in
the following episode. Last time, in our first
episode, the nature sound sounded just like this.
And the sound maker is the California toad, scientifically
known as Anoraxis boreas halophilus. This is
the release call of the California toad as it
was grasped across its back. The clip comes from
CaliforniaHerps .com, an excellent online resource
created by Gary Nafis, and so does the following
quote. A release call is produced by a male toad
or an unreceptive female toad when a male toad
or other animal gets on its back and grabs its
sides in the position used for mating or amplexus.
It's a toad's way of saying, get off my back,
let go. So there it is. Whether you had correctly
guessed or not, I hope you enjoyed the dulcet
tones of the California toad asserting its personal
space and agency. Now, to spark your curiosity
once again, here comes the next sound challenge,
a new nature sound that I will reveal the identity
of at the end of episode three. Are you ready?
Here it comes. Nature sound guess who in 3, 2,
1. And one more time in 3, 2, 1. I wonder who
that could be. All will be revealed next time.
Thank you again for joining us on the Pepperwood
Podcast, and until next episode, don't forget
to keep your ears tuned into nature.