Hi, volleyball fans, and welcome back to Volley
Talk, the podcast created for volleyball lovers
who want to dig deep into what is going on in
NCAA and international volleyball. I'm your host,
Sarah Pavan. I'm an Olympian, beach volleyball
world champion, former Nebraska Cornhusker, and
longtime pro, both indoor and on the beach. And
I'm Adam Schultz, former indoor player, international
volleyball coach, and the show's resident stat
guy. Playoffs are in full swing. As we said,
Men's Champions League playoffs have started
up. Things are... getting shaken up a little
bit in love. Yep. And we've got some really big
matchups on the NCAA men's side. So good. So
yeah, we're all over the place, but we have a
couple interesting segments lined up today that
we are really looking forward to talking about.
So hopefully you're excited to listen. Let's
get started. You know what's coming. Was your
volley fantasy a happening or a highlight? I'm
not even talking about it. My middle scored me
no points. My opposite was terrible. Who were
you picking for your bench? I had a couple middles
from Indy. I had Kara Cressy as my bench middle.
Does she even play? She was kind of rotating
through, had a couple good weeks. So I picked
one Indy middle, and then I picked her as my
backup, assuming one of them would play. Except
they probably have three medals or four medals.
Yeah, but if you have three medals, then... Yeah,
maybe she's not the backup for the one who didn't
play. Anyway, not great. Not great. I will say,
mine was a highlight. I'm happy for you. I moved
up to 60th. Good for you. So I climbed a solid
30 spots. I had some players that I've been eyeballing
for a few weeks, and for whatever reason... I
refused to ever sign them. And then last week
I was like, desperate times call for desperate
measures. And I signed them and they scored me
so many points. Who were they? Why are you taking
notes? Are you going to sign them this week?
I can go look at the app and look at your roster.
Oh, you can. Grace Loberg. Oh, she had a good
week. I didn't want to pick her out of principle
because she plays for San Diego. But she scored
me a ton of points. And Phoebe Aulea scored me
a ton of points. Cameron Turner scored me a ton
of points. You know what? Top to bottom, it was
a pretty good week. I still have some work to
do to keep climbing. But we do have a new leader.
That we do. Shame to see you go, Tallahassee
Turtles. Aloha Aces 808, baby, is our new leader.
So everybody gang up on them. But there's a new
feature that was added that I'm loving. She's
obsessed with it. The Daily Grid. I'm no good
at it, but it's really fun. It's like Wordle
and Tic -Tac -Toe for love and MLV. We both know
I'm terrible with players' names, so I'm never
going to get these. So we know that Adam's really
struggling. But if you click on the fantasy button,
it pops up as like a pop -up or like drop -down,
but it drops up, you know? And, you know, that
made sense though, didn't it? Everybody will
know what you're talking about. Click on it.
And then you basically have to put a player that
applies to where the rows and columns intersect.
But you can't use the same player more than once,
even if it applies. So you have to be strategic
and make sure you know what you're doing. I don't
know what I'm doing. I'm trying. I'm getting
better. You'll get there. But it's fun anyway.
So check it out. And join our league, playvolley
.com slash volleytalk. Play, V -O -L -L -I dot
com slash volleytalk. You can get in on the trash
talk happening. I'm wondering if Tallahassee
Turtles is going to have something to say to
me. Because I called them out for being second
now. They'll probably be in first after this
week. But whatever. Everybody keep forgetting
to fill out your rosters. Let me keep climbing.
Thank you so much. We'll see you on the app.
All right. On the NCAA men's side, we had a lot
going on. It was a good week. So we had a series
between number one UCLA and number five USC.
UCLA won both of them in five and then in four.
So they are still going strong. They are cruising.
Do you think USC will drop in the rankings or
do you think they'll stay? I think they'll stay.
Yeah, me too. Well, because even Long Beach State.
Lost to UCLA twice and they're still second.
Yeah, fair, fair. Number eight, Loyola Chicago
beat number nine, Ball State three straight.
That's very close. But then they turned around
and they lost to number 19, Purdue Fort Wayne
in four. So. Not a wash. Negative. They're probably
going to drop. Yeah. Number seven, Pepperdine
and number three, Hawaii had a series. We watched
the first match, Pepperdine won in four and then.
Hawaii returned the favor and won in four. That
match was unbelievable. I did not expect Pepperdine
to go into Hawaii and win a match. No. It was
so much fun to watch. Cole Harkey was really
feeling himself. That's all I got to say. And
good for him. I mean, he played great. But you
know when you're watching, you're like, oh man,
this player's really feeling himself. They're
like, everyone's watching me. I could totally
feel that. I had a couple thoughts watching that
match. I thought Tread struggled to set the right
side in the first two sets. The right side was
not good for Hawaii. Kanoa Wade. Yeah. I've got
some thoughts. But he was unbelievable down the
stretch in sets three and four. Fair. But was
anybody else wondering why the coach's son was
playing over Tetriski? He's hurt. My question
stands. Because in the first couple sets. Okay,
I know Tetriski didn't even dress. Press pause
on your comment fingers. But I was surprised
they didn't make. I'm surprised why I didn't
make any subs on the left side or the right side.
Because Rourke was not good either. I'm like,
I mean, in the first couple sets, I was like,
take Wade out. Yeah. Why is he still on the court?
Put Finn Carney in. Yes. Put somebody in. Why
are you keeping your kid on the court so long?
So I was not happy about that. But I feel like
whenever we watch Hawaii, Rourke rarely has a
good game. He's clearly very good. He's a player
of the year watch list. Our favorite. And the
men's watch list is a legitimate watch list.
There's not 97 players on it. Roar clearly is
good, but I feel like whenever we watch Hawaii,
we must put out some just terrible vibes because
he's not great when we watch. So I had a thought
watching the first set. Going down to the wild,
I think the first set was 28 -26. There was a
play that happened, and I thought, this is the
definition of volleyball IQ. Oh, your favorite
term. My favorite term. So is this like a good
thing or a bad thing? It's a good thing, and
it actually doesn't apply to the players. The
Pepperdine coach was so on top of it. This was
spectacular. So Pepperdine made a sub. On the
last rotation, they took a left side out and
put a small player in. He was a passing left
side for defense. Jose Gomez. No, it wasn't Gomez.
Gomez was the starter. Which I also was wondering
why the heck is Gomez starting over Lamarie.
I'll come back to Gomez. Okay. They left him
in the front row as they rotated through. So
it's 27 -26. Pepperdine's going back to serve.
And you can hear the announcers themselves are
like, oh, man, I think they've run out of subs.
They had to leave the short guy in the front.
So the short left side rotates. I can't remember
what his name is. Rotates into the front row.
And the announcers are losing their mind. They're
like, oh, my goodness, they got the short guy
in the front row. Tretta's definitely going to
run the right side. You know, what an awful time
to run out of subs. Pepperdine lines up. They
serve the ball. And at the last second, Hartke
shifts over and blocks the right side for match
point. And I will tell you for set point. And
I will tell you that the coach understanding
the flow of the game, what's happening, what
the decision making is going to be, and to send.
Hartke over there for that block was genius.
That is understanding volleyball and making adjustments.
Adam was giddy. Outstanding. He was like, that
was such a bait and switch. That was the greatest
bait and switch. That bait and switch was the
greatest thing I've ever seen. He was like running
around. And I was like, wow, I haven't seen you
this fired up about it. I thought it was fantastic.
Kudos to the Pepperdine coach. Tread was flabbergasted
that his right side got blocked. Well, you were
like, how did he not notice? Yeah. It was a perfect
pass. So I thought that was the highlight of
the match for me. Other than Gomez hitting maybe
the worst serve I have ever seen. We're talking
like ceiling. It was upper deck. And if it hadn't
hit the stands, it would have kept going. It
got chopped up by some fans, for sure. And I
mean ceiling fans. It was. There was so much
backspin on that ball. It was unbelievable. The
worst miss serve I've ever seen. I've seen a
lot of terrible miss serves recently. I saw a
Scandici middle. Her serve didn't even make it
to the 10th line on her own side. Like, it's
been a rough go out here, you guys. Why the heck
was Gomez playing over Lameray? I have no idea.
I was like, you guys. Lameray must have missed
a team meeting or something. Yeah, I'm like,
he must have. been late or had some punishment
of like you're not going to play for the first
two sets in Hawaii or something because like
he came in and they're like oh and he scores
whatever amount of kills were said he's hitting
380 on the season yeah I didn't understand okay
but there were a surprising number of rallies
in that match which was great to see on the men's
side Tread digs one -handed balls better than
anybody else. I've seen he just takes up space
and gets a hand on it consistently. He plays
very good defense. I will give him that. You
know who else plays really good defense? Saka.
Saka Noko. That man reads the game. Impressive.
And the way he leads himself on his spin serve,
I'm like, good grief. Wow. But that match was
just, it was entertainment. It was great volleyball.
And so entertaining. Harky went off. There was
a little banter back and forth. It was great.
When Pepperdine runs their middles, they are
very good. And when they pass well. And they
passed well. Hawaii missed some serves at key
times, but what a match. Very, very good. We
didn't get to see the second one, but that one,
first one, loved it. To round this out, we had
a 12 -11 matchup with Santa Barbara and San Diego.
Santa Barbara won in five. So a lot of very close.
close ranked matchups this week. That probably
won't affect much from a ranking perspective,
but I'm thinking Loyola Chicago is going to take
a bit of a dive. I don't know if Pepperdine Hawaii
will move at all. No, because they switched.
I think Pepperdine might make a case for themselves
to move up a spot. Maybe a spot, but nothing
crazy. Exciting stuff, regardless. Very good
week in NCAA men's. On the MLV front, Indy Ignite
continue to roll. They're at 13 -2. We are still
at only two teams with winning records here,
everybody. This is insane. Atlanta and San Diego
switch spots, so Atlanta's back to fourth. But
we've got Omaha sitting in sixth at 7 -9 after
losing to, what did they lose to, Grand Rapids
or something? They looked lifeless. I think Omaha
really needed to take a page out of Adam's roster
construction book from last week because whatever
they're doing, it's not working. They don't have
that glue. They just tried to buy. This is what
Adam was saying. They tried to buy the best players
and they just are not working together. But it's
also crazy to me because Brooke Nunneville is
generally that glue. Like she is generally the
engine on a team. And for whatever reason. The
team just can't seem to rally around her. It's
kind of miserable to watch. And they got spanked
in a couple of those sets. I think the last set
was 25 -13 or something. That's embarrassing.
You talk about watching the NCAA men's game and
how exciting it is. This one was an absolute
snooze fest. I don't know what's going on. But
the fact that in an entire league only two teams
have winning records. It almost seems. Like,
it shouldn't be mathematically possible. Well,
two with winning, two at 500, and then the rest
are losing records. But still. Like, Indy is
just walking away with this. And if they pucker
during playoffs or something, I don't know what
to say. I think Dallas has a real shot to win.
Indy -Dallas final. Yes. Because of the way it's
lining up right now, we're going to have Indy
playing Atlanta. Atlanta's having some scoring
issues. And Dallas versus Orlando. Which Orlando
is dropping random matches. I believe, yeah,
they got smacked by Dallas three straight. Well,
Abercrombie's not playing, right? Why did you
sign her to your team? I did. That sucked. Got
her for the long haul. You know what? I finally
figured out if Azani Taylor isn't going to get
me zero points, I'm going to sign her back up
as my bench because at least one of them will
be playing. Took me too long to figure that one
out. On the love front, we have a new number
one. We do. Houston, baby. They're at 9 -5 now.
They took over the number one spot because Salt
Lake has lost four in a row. They can't win.
Including getting swept by Nebraska of all teams.
That's tough. They should be able to win that
match. But they have four players who are at
least semi -injured. Well, they're missing Alexa
Gray. So that's a huge, huge hole for them. Kojima
was injured. Poulter was injured. Poulter played
against Nebraska, though. Yeah, but she's still
coming off. I don't know if Kojima played, but
I know Alexa Gray didn't. But, like, we know
how I feel about Ronnie Jones -Perry. She's starting
back to last year. Alexa Gray needs to come back
because they were dominating. Yeah. And now they
don't look so hot. And also, like, okay, I understand
Alexa Gray is very good, but you're missing one
player. Like, how have the wheels fallen off
so drastically? I mean, the linchpin of... Your
team who scores all your points opens everybody
else up. And without that. Trust me. She's good.
Yeah. We'll see. I'm assuming from what I've
read that she's close to being back. Lower body
injury. Lower body injury. But I think her status
has moved. It has changed. Her injured status.
So we'll see. Italian playoffs. All quarterfinal
matches went too straight. Adam has something
to say to the person who got. Pissed saying that
Boost, how dare we say that Conigliano is going
to crush Busto. Guess what they did. Busto won
one set in the whole series, you guys. So now
we've got Conigliano playing Novara and Scandici
playing Milano in the semis. And for the men,
the first quarterfinal has happened. And all
of the top seeds won except Trentino. They lost
to Civitanova. Is Micheletto back? No. He's got
a stress fracture, I think. That's tough. So
Perugia beat Monza, Verona beat Milano, Modena
beat Piacenza, and then Civitano would beat Trentino.
And Trentino also put themselves in a tough position
in Champions League because they beat Warsaw
in five. So they need to win in Warsaw or they've
got to... Push it to five if they're going to
lose. And play a golden set. They're going to
need to have a good week or season's over. They've
had a rough week. Las Palmas beat Montpellier
in four. And Reshov, I really struggle with that
name, beat Rosalar from Belgium in three. So
the return matches are happening Tuesday through
Thursday. I'm looking forward to men's quarterfinals
starting for real. I think that's going to be
fun. A lot happening. A lot happening. A lot
happening. You will hear about what is going
on, what matches to watch at the end, as always.
But basically, Tuesday through Sunday, easy peasy.
You'll have so much to watch. Okay, we got a
really interesting question. And as we have been
doing, we turned it into a segment. So here we
go. The question was, can you go over the past
10 to 20 years of national player of the year
in NCAA women's volleyball, rank them by how
they did in college, then after college, say
whether they met pro expectations, surpassed
expectations, or fell below. We polled. From
2010 to 2025. Full disclosure. I didn't really
follow NCAA volleyball for a chunk of this time.
So we were off doing our own thing. I was playing.
There were about five athletes who I was like,
I don't really know who that is. Well, that answers
your question. That answers the question about
what they did. Yeah. So as far as ranking their
collegiate careers, we might be a little spotty,
but. I ranked like top eight. There were eight
that I thought I could put in place. The interesting
thing was looking past 2010, there were a bunch
of banger athletes in that decade too, which
was fun. Logan Tom was in there. Beluka was in
there. You were in there. Fawcett was in there.
Megan Hodge. Megan Hodge was in there. So that
decade before was also very good. I know we started
2010, but I figured I'd give you a share. I figured
it was safe to stop at 2010. I was like, let's
not dive any deeper. I don't need to be involved
in this. Well, so let me give you my list top
to bottom. Well, let's just say what they are,
what the players are. So everybody get out your
pencils and paper. Okay. Because we got to at
least let you know who we're talking about here.
So 2010, Carly Lloyd from Cal. Then we had Alex
Jupiter at USC. Elena Bergsma at Oregon. Krista
Van Sant at Washington. Micah Hancock, Penn State.
Samantha Brecho, USC. That takes us to 2015.
So do you want to just go through the 2010 to
2015 and say about their pro career? And then
we can move on to the next chunk. And then at
the end we can. Okay, so Carly Lloyd. Oh, surpassed.
That's how I would write that. play she won the
italian league her first year after graduation
beat my team in the final i can't talk about
it it was i'll talk about it it was it went five
matches it was three or five it went five that
was against busto right yes the last match was
17 15 in the fifth set that was the first year
we were married i can't believe it i was so mad
yes you were anyway And then she went and played
for some top teams. She stayed at Buso for a
while. She won Champions League with Palmy, Casal
Maggiore. She played for Zazibashi. She was in
Brazil for a bit. She played for some very reputable
clubs and won with said clubs. So I agree. Surpassed.
You probably know her from beach volleyball.
That's Alex? Oh, okay. Is a taller black girl
who played for France. Got it. Her pro career
was uninspired based on what I could. No, she
played like one year for Le Canet. And then she
went to the beach. And he wasn't good on the
beach, no offense. Yeah. Below. I put below as
well. Okay, Elena Bergsmann. I don't know who
that is. Okay, I played against her my second
season in Brazil. She played for Minas. Did she
play or was she on the bench? She played. I don't
remember her. And then she played for like, I
want to say a season in China, a season in Korea.
And then her career was over. So I said below.
Yeah, below. Krista Van Sant. Again, I wasn't,
I didn't know who that was. She played like two
years and then started coaching. So I also said
below. Micah Hancock. Above. Like, she's unreal.
Okay, but like her pro career. Do you include
national team on the pro career? See, that's
what I was curious about. Because if we're including
national team, I'm going to say surpassed. If
we're not, then I'm going to say she met my expectations.
Because if you look at her body of work, she
has never played for like a top team. She's played
in good leagues for very mid -level teams in
those leagues. National team should count. But
I also think... professionally, it's a little
more challenging for setters and liberos because
you have the foreign player rule. And normally
those really good teams will pick up the setters
and the liberos from their own country so they
can pick up hitters. So in her case, I'm not
sure her playing for mid -range clubs. I mean,
Carly Lloyd played for top club. I mean, yes.
Maybe her agent wasn't as good. She played for
like Monza in Italy. And then she played for
a few Polish teams, not the best ones. Yeah.
I will say, okay, if you're counting national
teams surpassed, if not, then she met them. Okay.
I think that's fair. I would personally probably
count national team for her. So I would say,
I would say I bet looking out after college,
she exceeded expectations. We disagree. Okay.
And 2015, Samantha Breachow, she. I played against
her when she played for Caneliano. I said surpassed
because she has played for some very good club
teams. And I would say it is difficult to do
that if your national team doesn't perform well.
And she's Mexican. And the fact that she has
gotten opportunities and looks from top club
teams, I think speaks volumes. So I'm going to
say surpass. I think that logic is right. You
automatically get a couple points if you play
for a great country. Absolutely. These American
players who play for the U .S. national team,
they have an advantage already because the national
team is so good and they are seen by everybody.
Mexico does not. I think that's fair. Okay, so
the next five are... 2016, Sarah Wilhite, Minnesota.
2017 and 18, Catherine Plummer, Stanford. 2019,
Yosiana Presley from Baylor. Spring 2021 was
Madison Lilly from Kentucky. As a purist, I wouldn't
count that one. Dana Recchi was the player of
the year that year. So do you count Kentucky's
national championship in the spring of 21? Yeah,
I mean, they won. Well, if you're going to count
it, then you have to count player of the year.
Okay, fair enough, fair enough. I personally
put an asterisk next to that national championship,
but that's just me. Sarah Woolhite, I feel like
you're just going to, you're reading my answers
right now, and you're just going to copy me,
so. I don't, I don't know enough about her. Okay,
I say below. Here's her history. So right out
of college, she played for Bustor Sitio, then
went to Stuttgart, Desi Bauru in Brazil. played
for a weaker team in Turkey, Red Rockets in Japan,
and another weak team in Turkey before ending
up in Omaha. So basically you played for Busto
one year. Again, I played against her when she
was in Busto. She didn't play. Yeah, fair enough.
But there are certain Italian clubs that always
seem to snatch young American players. Busto
is one of them. Milano always ends up taking
a couple of young ones. Yeah. And DG. I think
that's fair. I think that's a fair assessment.
But I mean, after that, in my opinion, didn't
really do much. Yeah. So for me, particularly
if you're an outside hitter national player of
the year, we're looking national team here. We're
looking like club teams, particularly if you're
an American. Yeah, that's fair. I think it's
a good assessment. So I put below. I can get
behind that. Catherine Plummer. I want to say
met expectations. With the caveat that if she
has, if her next two seasons are good, it would
be an exceed. Okay, so she's played for Monza,
the Denso Aribis in Japan, Toneliano for a couple
seasons, three seasons, and then Izazibashi.
So she's played for some very good clubs. She's
not always starting. Not always starting. I personally
think she has met expectations. Yeah, I agree
with you. Yeah, I'm not saying, I'm not like
countering you. I'm just saying for me, she met
expectations. I think also, you know, again,
there's a bit of a history there, some injury,
some personal loss there. So I'm curious, I'm
going to say met expectations, but I'm curious
to see what her next couple of years look like.
Her story is still being written. Yeah, I mean,
she's still pretty young. All right, Yosiana
Presley played for Mulhouse in France right after
college and then went to the Atlanta Vibe, and
that's all I know. Yeah, it's definitely below
expectations. I remember her watching her in
that season where she won Player of the Year
for Baylor, and watching her was so much fun.
She jumped so well. She was dynamic. But they
came out of nowhere. It was like Baylor's one
year. Totally. And let's be real. If Catherine
Plummer hadn't gotten injured that year and had
fulfilled the quota for the requisite number
of matches to be considered, she would have won
player of the year again. Agreed. But in watching
her in that stretch, you could see that there
was... potential there for her to go on and have
a career if she wanted it. I didn't think she
was going to have one. Below expectations, even
though I didn't think she was going to have much
of a career. I agree it was below expectations.
I'm just saying it was impressive to watch her
on that run. And then Madison Lilly played for
Potsdam in Germany and then went to Bézier in
France and then went to coaching. Below expectations.
Below. I thought there was nothing wrong with
coaching. There's nothing wrong with coaching,
but... Given how highly people speak about her
collegiate career, didn't do anything after.
And the most recent now. In 2021, we had Dana
Retke from Wisconsin. 22, Logan Eggleston from
Texas. 23, Sarah Franklin from Wisconsin. And
then the last two were Olivia Babcock from Pitt.
I think Dana Retke has exceeded expectations.
I agree. I agree. Now, she's played a few years
at Milano and then is Ozzy Boshy. But I will
say to take those types of contracts as a foreign
middle says a lot. Totally. It is very hard to
get signed to those really strong clubs as a
middle because a lot of those budgets, and we've
talked about in the past, go to larger point
scorers. So the fact that she has been able to
play at that level as a foreign middle, I think
she has exceeded expectations. 100 % agree with
that. Logan Eggleston has played a couple seasons
for Galatasaray in Turkey and then went to Love.
For me, it's Below. Yeah, Love just feels like
settling. And then Sarah Franklin, obviously.
Went to love right out of college and now is
at Scandici. She just signed with Ankara in Turkey
for next year. For me, she has met expectations.
Yes, I agree. I think leaving the season that
she's had, she's got some playing time. I would
agree with that assessment. And it remains to
be seen for Olivia Babcock. So in building off
of that question, as we said earlier, we are
not super familiar. with a lot of these athletes
collegiate careers so we're just going to kind
of break down the ones that we think are top
top that we know so if we don't say your player's
name don't come at us because maybe we didn't
watch them in college okay so i put a list of
eight together in order and it was i thought
about this exercise in terms of a how good they
were period but also how much better than their
peers they were. So I kind of use two different
criteria because you have a couple of different
positions here. I had, I used that as my kind
of benchmark to, to pick that. Okay. So my criteria
is probably going to be different than yours.
Cause I think of it as like how many people have
done what you've done and did you win? Okay.
Our lists are going to be different. Our order
is going to be different. Okay. Do you want me
to start? Sure. I have Olivia Babcock at the
top of the list. No. Okay. Catherine Plummer.
She won three national championships. She would
have been a three -time national player of the
year if she hadn't gotten injured her senior
season. She was on track to be the only three
-time national player of the year and a four
-time first -team All -American. And win three
national championships. That's the top for me.
But she didn't. Okay, so she won player of the
year twice. You know how many people have done
that? Not many. Okay. Well, I had her a second.
Olivia Babcock hasn't won anything. We all know
that I'm an Olivia Babcock fan. She has not won.
Okay. So who is your two? Dana Redke. She is
the only five -time first -team All -American
ever. You hate that. I hate it. I definitely
think that there needs to be an asterisk next
to it because not everybody got to play five
years. But there's something to be said for being
a five -time first -team All -American. I mean,
your argument is pretty compelling. And she won
in 2021. Okay, who's your three? Micah Hancock.
I had Micah Hancock at three as well. Okay, because
she won a couple. Who was after that? That I
honestly don't really care. I had Dana Retke
and then Sarah Franklin. I'd probably put Eggleston
above Franklin. Really? I would probably put
Eggleston above Franklin because A, Eggleston
won and she was at Texas all four years. Franklin
transferred into Wisconsin from Michigan State
after they won. From a performance standpoint
in college, who do you think was better or had
a bigger impact for their team? Well, I mean.
I don't like that question because they set Franklin
almost every single ball versus like Eggleston
played on a more balanced team. She can't be
punished for that. I see your argument. I thought
Sarah Franklin carried more of a load and was
more valuable to her team in that stretch. I
think both arguments are valid. Those reasons
are just why I would put Eggleston above her.
And then I would honestly probably put Babcock
up there because. I mean, if you want to compare
similar situations, her situation is similar
to Franklin's, except she's making the Final
Four every year and arguably has worse pieces
around her, especially this past year. If Babcock
wins next year, where does she go on this list
for you? Maybe third. Ahead of Mike Hancock?
Mm -hmm. Okay. Fair enough. And to round out
my list, as I didn't know many other people,
I had Carly Lloyd and then Presley. Don't put
Presley on the list at all. I'm not letting you
do that. She does not belong on that list. I'm
sorry. But I could make an argument for Carly
Lloyd because Cal was never the same after she
graduated. And I also have PTSD because I played
my final college match against Cal and lost to
them in the regional final. And she was a freshman.
Honestly, I really liked this question. Great
question. It was very interesting. It was cool
to dive into these players' careers. And, you
know, I'm sad that I kind of went dark on NCAA
volleyball there for a while in the middle years,
the early 2010s. But, yeah, this was fun. Very
fun. All right. So for our game this week, we
are going to do a little confirm or deny. Okay.
So I will make statements. I had no idea what
we were getting into right now. It's always a
surprise for me too. Yes. This is the fun part
for me. So I will make a statement and you will
either confirm or deny it, you know, with a little
bit of justification, not just a yes or no answer.
Okay. So we're going to start actually, and we
have two questions about Omaha MLV. Confirm or
deny Omaha's coach will still be with them next
season, regardless. Of how this season finishes.
Deny. This is the absolute worst Omaha has done.
They've been at the top the last two seasons.
Your organization was one of the major proponents
or reasons that this league switched to MLV.
And now you snatched up all these players. And
now you're going to be one of the worst teams.
That's a bad look. Or the office, the front office.
So I think they're going to get rid of him because
that's a really bad look. I agree. And he has
made comments about, you know, the team's not
as good as they thought they were on paper and
things like that. He's thrown a little shade
at the management group of that one based off
how they've played. And it doesn't look like
they're going to make the playoffs right now.
So, yeah, I agree. I think they're going to be
finding a new coach. Bird Coon is just down in
Atlanta just like smirking. Okay, next question.
Omaha will finish outside of the top four missing
the playoffs this year. Confirm. We were iffy
at the beginning of the season, but we were like,
no, they're going to figure it out. They're going
to find their rhythm, blah, blah, blah. They're
not finding their rhythm. This is not going well,
so I don't think they're going to make playoffs.
I would confirm that one as well. I think they're
going to be on the outside looking in. Confirm
or deny Salt Lake will consistently return to
the win column after Alexa Gray comes back from
injury. Confirm. I think she's very good. And
I think her presence probably puts Casanova,
the other left side, et cetera, like at ease
and not maybe doesn't, it makes them feel not
as much pressure. So depending on how bad her
injury was, which like let's assume that if she's
playing it's not that bad and she's fine, then
I'll say yes, confirm they'll start winning again.
I will confirm that as well. I think they'll
go at least 500 down the stretch with her, which
will be good enough. Does everybody make playoffs
again? I think so. Confirmer Janai, Hawaii will
hand UCLA their first loss this week. They're
playing in Hawaii, I believe. I think you're
right. This is a hard question. I'm going to
say deny. I'm going to confirm this. I think
UCLA will turn it up. They are hungry after not
winning last year. They're playing really well.
I think that the environment will fuel them even
more. And I want to say they've learned from
last season with their complacent starts, etc.
I think Hawaii matches up well against UCLA.
I'm not saying they're better than them, but
you're going to have tread against Zach Rama.
Zach Rama, that's fine. Zach Rama elevates. It's
insane. He's like on a ladder. I'm really looking
forward to that game. I think Hawaii can get
a win here. Conigliano. will win its eighth league
title in a row this year. Confirm. I think they
started out the season slow, but I think they
got back on track. I know I picked Vacav Bank
to beat them in Champions League, but I think
they will win the Italian League. I'm going to
deny this. I think there's going to be a new
league champion this year. Who? I think Scandici
will win. I'm not sure. Last question. Confirm
or deny. There will be no Italian team as the
winner of Champions League for both men and women.
Deny. I think I already predicted last week that
Fenerbahce or Vacavank will win the women's side.
But I think, you know, Perugia, Chivita, Nova
are on opposite sides of the bracket. Granted,
Chivita, Nova has to play Zverev. But there is
a chance that Trentino. wins and then one of
them in perugia they could match up in the semi
so i think there are enough opportunities for
an italian men's team to win i'm going to deny
that as well i think one one of the champions
leagues will be won won by an italian team i
agree there's just too many odds for for that
to happen both on the men and the women i know
that you're convinced it's going to be well i
was completely wrong last year and i'll probably
be completely wrong again but it's fun to speculate
yeah that's confirm and deny this week i liked
your answer that's a lot of fun good job adam
okay let's get into some listener questions the
first one is for you it is a build -off of it's
a fun one okay it's a build -off of your roster
construction one okay From last week? Yeah. The
person says, okay, so Adam's 16U team will be
assembled by athleticism, then attitude, then
skill. Yeah. Where does height fit in? When I
think of athleticism, height is kind of attached
to that. There's a lot of tall people who are
very unathletic. Yeah. So you're looking at,
you know, how well do they jump? How high do
they touch? You know, height would definitely
come into play in that first category for me.
I kind of include that in. Athleticism. Would
you take a super tall kid who is not athletic
at all? Are you one of those people that think
that you can, like, just make athletes out of
nothing? Definitely not. However, if their attitude
is good and they're willing to put the work in,
I would be apt to give them a shot. And, you
know, tall and unathletic, maybe a middle. You
know, if he's smart. No shade to the middles
out there. No, no, no, no. But you can narrow
in the focus, right? So maybe you're not a super
attacking middle, but maybe you could be a good
blocker. You know, good eye work, things like
that. If I had a kid like that who really wanted
to play, who was very coachable and worked hard,
I'd keep him in the gym. Because that's, again,
as we discussed, my soft spot. Part B is, so
how do you fix the leaves? Ten years. Drafting.
He says this every year, you guys. Oh, we're
in a rebuild. But honestly, the Leafs issue,
in my opinion, come down to this roster construction.
You had too many players of the same type. You
had skilled... Non -winners. Well, there is that.
But you had skilled guys who weren't willing
to go into the dirty areas, who couldn't play
when the ice shrunk in the playoffs. Like, you
need a couple of them. But then you need a couple
guys around that who are willing to do the dirty
work and not just third liners. So, I mean, the
Leafs are sunk for the next decade. They got
to draft a few new players. They don't have any
draft capital. Nobody wants to play in Toronto.
It's going to be bleak. All right. Moving on.
Question two. Are there any collegiate players
you guys expect or want to see playing for the
U .S. VNL team? With the exception of Babcock,
this person couldn't think of anybody who could
make the jump right now except maybe Stafford.
I would also like to see Andy Jackson. I want
to get her out of that environment. I want to
see, you know, her blocking is not going to be
up to snuff at that level, but it would be interesting
to see how she attacks the slide in those rotations.
Could she be a factor there? What does it look
like if they run her in front of the setter?
I would be curious to see that maybe in a week
one or against a couple teams. That's the first
name that pops into my head. Andy Jackson popped
into my head too. I'm trying to think if I agree
if Stafford could make the jump right now. I'm
not sure. I think it would be worth seeing. Yeah,
I mean, I think it's worth a try. But even like
a Kennedy Martin, like I don't think. Her all
-around game is not good enough. She's a good
attacker, but her other skills are not good enough.
It would be interesting to watch her attack against
an international block, but she'd get tipped
every ball. Stitch -ack style. No, I don't know.
Maybe a setter? Honestly, I would be curious
to see Izzy Stark, but she's been out for so
long. I would have picked Izzy Stark. If she
hadn't played the whole NCAA season, she might
be on my list. But, like, you haven't played
in a match since, like, September, August. Yeah.
Any Liberos? No. I thought the NCAA Liberos were
weaker this year. Agreed. Yeah. I'm, like, I
don't think that there are many that are, like,
ready right now. Okay. Question three. I heard
a 2024 interview with Karch Karai. in which he
addressed spin serving in the U .S. women's gym.
He said that because of lack of consistency and
accuracy, at one point he mandated that everybody
exclusively float serve. He also cited wear and
tear as part of his rationale for discouraging
spin serving. Do you think his approach still
contributes to USA's conservative serving compared
to international leagues? Do you anticipate more
aggressive serving and spin serving on Team USA
now that he's no longer the head coach? Who do
you think has a good enough spin serve? Here's
the thing. I hear that comment and I immediately
think he just didn't think anybody had an effective
enough spin serve. I feel like, yeah, that's
like a very PC answer to be like nobody was good
enough. Yeah, because think about it. If you
have to be hitting the snot out of the ball with
good control. moving across into seams to cause
trouble i mean you and i both passed and i would
rather pass a spin serve than a float serve 100
there are very few and again i didn't play internationally
so don't come at me with that but i'm just saying
in general when you're at a level there are very
few players who can blow you up well and it's
different on the men's for in the men's game
in the women's game like the men's game the spin
serves are moving so fast but even like For me,
when I saw somebody coming to spin serve, I'm
like, oh, perfect. Yeah. And again, you have
cartridges and incorrect, less control. Like
if you can hit flat float serves into seams in
between players, move them around, you're not
necessarily getting aces, but you're getting
out of system balls or passes behind the attack
line. To me, this sounds like, hey, the numbers
support us float serving. I'm going to break
it to you guys as gently as possible without
telling you you're not good enough spin servers
to do it. That's how I read that. But I also
think, and I don't know if this is fact, but
kind of building off of something that we said
last week, I think a lot of coaches in North
America at like the club and university levels
punish people for missing. So a spin server.
starts to feel like a little nervous to really
go for it if they're going to get punished and
I can say like overseas when I would play professionally
it was just like all the discourse always was
Sarah you have a green light like do whatever
you want like hit the crap out of the ball like
we don't care if you miss and the freedom you
feel being given that green light So I don't
know if it's just been like pounded into North
American athletes heads or American athletes
heads that if you're going to spin serve, you
need to get like nine out of 10 in and then they're
like taking stuff off of it. And maybe that is
why we've seen easier serving in the USA gym
compared to international, not just from a spin
serving perspective, but float serving as well.
I think it. It would be interesting to explore
that as a reason why the U .S. serving is so
much easier. Who do I think? Who would you give
the green light to? Well, I'm confused why Olivia
Babcock put her spin serve away because honestly,
it's better than the float serve she's doing.
Yeah. So at that point, I'm just like, OK, I
would just be like, OK, forget your float serve.
Just go back to it. I'm wondering if that was
a legitimate wear and tear issue because she
hit a ton of balls in college. What about like
Micah Hancock? Micah Hancock spin serve, I think
is really good. I think she does a really good
job of creating that side spin to get it to move
and being a lefty serving from five that messes
so many people up. So I would give for sure the
green light to her. I think she has a really
good serve. I would say Olivia Babcock. If Kennedy
Martin ever went like she, the service she has
is kind of a hybrid that she was using this past
season. I really like that for her. And her serve
got so much more aggressive. So I would give
her the green light to do that. That one, which
is like an in -between. But I think that's it.
You're not giving it to Skinner. You're not giving
it to Franklin. You're not giving it to Plummer.
You're not giving it to Eggleston. None of the
middles, I don't think. There's not many middles
that are spin serving. Let's not kid ourselves.
Yeah. The other thing I will say about having
a spin serve is it can help just throw off the
rhythm of the passer. If you're not seeing the
same thing. To me, I think talking women's games
specifically, four good float servers, two spin
servers who have the green light. To me, that's
kind of the best ratio in terms of aggressiveness,
ability to make errors, changing up the pace
for the passers. That's what I would generally
shoot for. Again, you make adjustments based
off the talent you have on the roster. If you've
got three great spin servers, go for it. But
I think that's maybe realistic for... the players
we see coming down the pipeline. Question four.
If Jordan Larson had gone and played sand after
college instead of pro or national team, how
would she have done? She has all the tools to
be a great sand player. I agree. I think she
would have done exceptionally well, especially
at the time that she graduated. I think if the
right person had been tasked with coaching her
and made her a defender. Instead of a blocker.
I think she would have revolutionized. The beach
game. And that position. Because we're seeing
that. Now. But like back then. Like when she
graduated. The beach defenders we were seeing
were like 5 -7. Okay. Can you imagine in 2008.
Or whatever. Like a 6 -2 defender coming out.
Like people would have lost it. Yeah. And she
was good enough because the way that she reads
the game, she's long. So, like, she could cover
the court well. Her vision, which we're seeing
now when she's, like, almost 40, able to score
against much younger competition without being
able to honestly get off the ground that well
anymore. Like, I think she would have changed
the game because it's only been in the last couple
cycles. Yeah, quad and a half. Yeah, that we've
seen six foot plus. defenders on the women's
side so i think she would have been incredible
would have cost her a couple zeros on her salary
from what she made playing indoor but yeah and
yeah no big deal question five Why do I routinely
hear or read from U .S.-based media people who
have followed pro volleyball for a long time
say that they want or wish the top NCAA players
to go to Italy or wherever to play? I understand
wanting to see people play against the best competition,
but if a person wants the U .S. leagues to be
top level, then wouldn't they want the best players
to stay and build up the talent? Am I misunderstanding
the intent of others when they say this? Or are
they just okay with pro volleyball here looking
the same way MLS is in the soccer world? I think
they're two completely different things. And
it comes down to incentives. Well, no, I think
the discussion of like building athletes is a
completely different discourse than wanting a
pro league in the US to succeed or not. Do you
know what I mean? And quite frankly, if you take
the top NCAA players and just immediately filter
them into the U .S. Pro League pipeline, they're
not going to get better because you need other
top athletes from around the world to come to
this league to build the level, to make the NCAA
talent better. And quite frankly, nobody knows
who top NCAA players are if you go to Turkey
or Japan. Italy or wherever. They don't know.
So those top players would never be incentivized
to come play in the US with top NCAA players
because they'd be like, who is this? Those NCAA
players that are top need to go overseas, A,
get better, improve, make a name for themselves,
and then come back. Then players know who they
are because they've already made a name for themselves
and gotten good going overseas, playing against
those top players, and then the league can grow.
In my opinion, that's how I see it. You're not
wrong. You also have to realize the people who
are saying you should go overseas and play in
Italy are thinking about the 2028 Olympics, the
2030 Olympics. It depends what your goals are.
If you don't want to play national team, if you
want to explore pro volleyball in a comfortable
environment, stay here. Yeah, but I'm saying
the media people who are saying that. They're
thinking about... How is the U .S. national team
going to be? Are we considered media people?
Probably. I think. Maybe I don't know. Maybe
that's arrogant. I say that only because that's
generally our take. We're just two people sitting
on a couch here. Leagues take forever to develop.
It's going to be a slow burn to catch up to Italy.
They have more money. They have more establishments.
They have a different system. You know, those
two things don't have to be. mutually exclusive.
Like you said, you may lose them for three or
four years, but then they can come back if they
want to. Love managed to get Gong to come play
here. She's an up -and -coming star that everybody
knows. But honestly, who doesn't make those decisions?
Correct. Her pro team and the government make
those decisions for her. She had no say in whether
she came here or not. Right, but my point was...
You have to find other ways to attract top talent
to keep coming in, whether that's money, whether
that's lifestyle, whether that's whatever. And
it's not just about keeping the homegrown talent
here. It's about luring other top talent to come
play however you're going to do that. And that's
going to take time. I'll say it again. You're
not going to make the U .S. Pro League the top
league by just making the version 2 .0 of the
NCAA. I'm sorry. Okay, this question is from
a completely different person, but I thought
it was an appropriate Part B. To this other question
that we just answered. So which of the U .S.
players currently playing for love or MLB do
you think would benefit most from playing pro
overseas? And are we killing our hopes for a
medal in L .A. by having so many U .S. players
in the U .S. pro leagues? I mean, Jordan Thompson's
the first person that comes to mind because she's
your front runner for your starting opposite.
I know she's already played overseas, but like.
Go back. But think about it. This is the equivalent
of an NBA player taking two seasons and playing
in the G League. Or like LeBron James being like,
you know what? I'm going to go play a season
in Russia. Yeah. I'll be back. She's the first
one. But the Russian League is pretty good, which
is not the NBA. Maddie Skinner. Maddie Skinner
is the next one. Logan Eggleston. Anybody who
is thinking about being a starter for the Olympics,
in my opinion, should be overseas. I'm even like
Micah Hancock go back. I know you're like in
your 30s now, but like if you're going to make
a run, like do it right. You know what I mean?
I'm actually really curious how long those people's
contracts are and if the two years leading into
the Olympics they play overseas. No, you don't
think so. Are there any middles? Well, you love
Tia Jemerson. Amber, I G'd. Go back. Play a whole
season in Italy. Don't fill in for an injury.
Yeah. Like seriously, her for sure. I think Fairbanks
could actually benefit from playing overseas.
You just, they play volleyball differently. I
know that first year that I went overseas with
you and, you know, chatted with the Italian coaches
and like understood the system, what they were
trying to do. They think about the game differently.
It opened up my mind to other possibilities,
to other ways to think, to approach the game.
For me, it was transformative in how I looked
at volleyball. Well, even playing in so many
countries for me was transformative because you
have your identity as a player and what you're
good at and the style that you've grown up with
and whatever. But everywhere you go, if you're
open enough to it, you take pieces of that style
with you. And at the end, you're just like this
interesting... mosaic of just like everywhere
you've been and you've like taken all these pieces
that have made you a much more well -rounded
and creative athlete and if there's no other
reason like do it to just like see what you can
add to your game yeah so i think i think fairbanks
is another one that that pops into my head that's
a good that's a good question yeah Well, the
part two of that question was, are we doing ourselves
a disservice and ruining the metal hopes? I think
currently probably your top players, I think
the front runners are currently in Europe. Well,
you've got like Retki, you've got Abogu, you've
got Plummer and Franklin and Skinner all playing
overseas. And then you have a couple of those
other players that we started looking at. Kendall
Kipp. Kendall Kipp. Ruddins is playing over there.
You have enough of the athletes there. I think
we highlighted a couple who I think, again, would
be beneficial, but lots of your potential starters
are already playing there. So we're talking maybe
4%, 5%, or 6 % increase in medal opportunity,
I think, if those players are playing overseas
that we mentioned. But again, I think a lot of
them kind of see the writing on the wall and
know what they have to do if they want to be
competitive in 2028. I mean, they've chosen to
go overseas when they don't have to. Oh, I thought
you meant the ones that are staying in love.
No, no, no. Yeah, the ones who chose to go overseas.
All right, question six. I'm a setter and my
club coach used to crash out when I would set
the middle attacker on a ball that I had to back
up to get, setting a 31 or a push one from zone
two. It felt natural to reverse the flow and
get the middle involved from this position, and
it was relatively successful. However, my coach
absolutely despised it regardless of the outcome,
but never explained to me why. First of all,
coaching error 101. I feel like especially with
like back when we were kids, it was just like
the coach says something and you just say, sure,
and you don't ask questions. But I feel like
athletes have evolved and like this new generation
very much benefits from hearing why. Yeah. which
is not a bad thing at all. Is this a principle
you guys believe in or is it just bad coaching?
It's bad coaching. Okay. I will say, and I don't
know your coach at all. This is just a shot in
the dark that I'm taking here. A lot of like
setting 101 when you're coaching younger athletes
in club or whatever, like a lot of coaches are
like, do not set the middle unless you see them.
Which is a really good principle when people
are young and getting started because you want
to train your setters to be able to set a fast
offense properly and you want your middles to
get appropriate timing. For young athletes saying
like, don't set your middle unless you see it,
unless you see them, it serves its purpose. It
makes a lot of sense. I am wondering if this
coach was like dying on that mountain. And when
you were backing up to zone two, you probably
weren't able to see your middle. And he was just
like, absolutely not. You know, the other thing
I can think of about this is I think when you're
younger, a lot of coaches don't want the setters
falling out of their sets specifically to the
middle. It slows it down a little harder to pinpoint.
So maybe that was the reason. But I don't think
if you're executing it fine. I'm like, yeah.
Yeah, I am too. And then strategically, the other
thing too is you have to think about, you know,
if your setter's being pulled to two, the middle
has to take a step that way, you know, because
the right side set becomes very quick or the
setter's front rowing could potentially dump.
Pushing the middle out, you know, forces the
middle to stay, open some things up. If they
don't, you have a clean swing. Like there are
strategic reasons. that you would potentially
run a push in that situation as well, at least
for me personally, you know, what I think. So,
again, coaches have all different levels of experience
and philosophies depending on who they learn
from. So, you know, it might have just been one
of those, hey, I was told growing up never to
do this. All right, question seven. You talk
a lot about height limiting your options, which
is true, but there are also athletes that overcome
those limitations. Yes. Totally. We have talked
about them. Yes. For example, Gabi at 5 '11 is
one of the best players in the world. And she's
a one in a million player. Yes. We've talked
about Gabi, Ishikawa, Wada, like you name it.
That was a general statement. Anyway, can you
comment on how the other skills she developed
to get there? Yes. Height generally helps. There
are very talented players who are not really
tall. Gabi jumps really well. You know what I
mean? Yeah. Ishikawa, they run a very fast offense
to open up seams in the block. Bigger does not
always equal better. There are ways that smaller
players can be successful. Last week, we were
talking about Leketur member Mena and how she
probably wouldn't make the national team. Smaller
players can become a liability on the block and
on a defensive end of things. If they're not
getting off the ground super fast, like it's
just not ideal. But as far as a smaller athlete,
if you're jumping well, like what the height
that you touch is way more important when you're
attacking than how tall you are. Yeah. And that's
what I was going to say is it's about how high
you're playing over the net. What are the angles
that you can hit that really matters and could
be skies. And she's got great angles and she's
got. Good vision. Amazing vision. And like Ishikawa,
her setters are able... Because if you watch
Ishikawa playing for Novara... Not the best.
It's not the same Ishikawa we're seeing playing
for Japan. Why? Because the setters... Offensively.
Offensively. Because the setters aren't running
that speed of offense to give her those openings
and those... Broken blocks. She's still passing
really well. She's still reading the game defensively
incredibly well. Her serve, whatever. There are
ways that smaller players can be incredibly effective.
And Gabi has all of the tools from a ball handling
perspective, jumping ability. Personality, work
ethic. All of the intangibles she also has. If
you are a smaller player and you're able to jump
and touch high offensively, who cares? The only
thing that I can see being a potential issue
is blocking. If you're a small setter, there
are lots of small setters, but deliver a fast
offense. Deliver a precise ball. You don't have
to be the tallest player in the gym to get looks
unless... Your coach is biased. Yeah. The thing
for the small players is make it impossible for
your coach to take you off the floor. That's
the goal. The passing is so good that you need
to stay defensively. You turn so many more points
that you're blocking isn't necessarily a liability
or washes out. We're not saying small players
can't play. It's just statistically speaking,
the ones that make it to the national team have
a general profile. Okay, last question. As Alexa
Gray approaches her last possible Olympic chances,
do you think Canada should stick with Johnson
and Mitrovic on the outside or expose young outsides
like Gusen and Taylor DeBoer that's currently
at Illinois? You play who's the best and whoever's
playing better. I mean, I thought Gusen came
in and did a really good job in the last B &L.
I don't think any of those left sides are shoe
-ins to start and or play. This for me is completely
merit -based in terms of who's playing better
on that day. I don't think you have any untouchables
at this point. As always, we appreciate the questions,
whether it's Instagram, YouTube, email. We love
interacting in this way and chat volleyball.
So thanks for all of your questions. All right,
looking forward. There's just so much going on
right now. So here's a few things to take a look
at. Tuesday through Thursday, Champions League
on eurovolley .tv. Men are playing. women are
playing both men and women it's i mean you could
watch champions league all week so check out
those matches follow your favorite teams all
of the matches should be pretty good thursday
at 7 p .m eastern we have mlv indy versus orlando
that'll be on roku orlando needs to kind of find
it here indy's cruising so i think that will
be a good match Friday at 7 p .m. Eastern, NCAA
men, Lindenwood versus our boys at McKendree.
Good luck, boys. We'll be cheering for you. We
will never forget. Saturday at 6 p .m. Eastern,
Love Atlanta versus Houston. That's at Victory
Plus. Now, Sunday at 1 a .m. Eastern, NCAA men's
UCLA versus Hawaii. Probably won't be up for
that one, but definitely watch the replay. Hawaii
had an awesome game against Pepperdine, which
we mentioned. This one should also be. Fantastic.
So that might be the match of the week. And then
Saturday and Sunday, Italian women's semifinal
match one and men's quarterfinals match two.
I mean, we could do nothing this week but watch
volleyball and it would be amazing. Not going
to happen for us, but there's just so much to
choose from. That concludes this week's episode
of Volley Talk. There's always something shaking
in the volleyball world and we hope you enjoyed
this little fix. Be sure to follow the show so
you don't miss any updates and we'd be so grateful
if you'd leave us a five -star review. You can
also find us on Instagram at volleytalk underscore
podcast. If you have a topic you'd like us to
discuss, you can reach out on Instagram or at
info at sarahpavin .com. Thanks so much for joining
us and we'll be back next week.