Hi volleyball fans and welcome back to Volley
Talk, the podcast created for volleyball lovers
who want to dig deep into what is going on in
NCAA and international volleyball. I'm your host
Sarah Pavan. I'm an Olympian, beach volleyball
world champion, former Nebraska Cornhusker, and
longtime pro, both indoor and on the beach. And
I'm Adam Schultz, former indoor player, international
volleyball coach, and the show's resident stat
guy. It is just about time. For international
season, everybody. Here we go. So as promised,
today's episode is all about VNL, specifically
the women's side. We will be covering the men's
VNL next week because, you know, the genders
alternate weeks anyway during competition. So
today is dedicated to the women. For those of
you who aren't familiar with the ins and outs
of VNL, we will be breaking down how the competition
works. how we feel about the top team's roster
selections, in particular the US, who we think
got snubbed, you know, all of that stuff. We're
just going to kind of break it all down for you.
We also got so many amazing questions relating
to VNL and the implications for the Olympics.
So we're going to try to address them all. We
are very excited about this episode and we hope
you are too. So let's get started. Let me guess,
we have at least some NCAA news to talk about
before we hop into V &L. That just seems to be
the way things go. Of course we do. Come on.
You guys know. You know. There's always something
in the NCAA, particularly the women's side. They
always sneak in. So we do have a couple noteworthy
transfers to mention today. Both are heading
to UCLA. Okay. So Mariana Singletary. the former
Texas middle blocker committed to UCLA, and Lola
Schumacher, the former Wisconsin libero. So UCLA
made some big pickups in this offseason. I mean,
they definitely needed to add some pieces because
they didn't have a great season. I'm not sure.
I mean, these players are good. They're going
to help, but I'm not sure these two moves in
isolation move them up. the leaderboard when
it comes to season standings. They have picked
up some great assets in maybe the least critical
positions. Like if you picked up a great center
or a great outside, those I think could be more
impactful, but they picked up PK Kong, as we
mentioned from Louisville, Singletary. So they've
got the middle and libero position on lock, but
like, Well, and if you're going to have good
middles, you have to pass. So, like, that is
important. They need a piece on the outside.
Yeah, they're starting right side, left, like,
quit volleyball due to injury. So there's a hole
in the right side, shared in whatever they have
on the outside. But, like, they're still missing
some pieces. They graduated their setter. You
have to hope, if you're UCLA, that this is kind
of momentum that people want to come to your
program. Like, it's a good step. But if they're
going to be competitive in the next season, they
need to add one, probably two more pieces. On
the NCAA men's side, many people were speculating
that Moni Nikolov would leave Long Beach State
and go pro. That is the case. He is going to
be playing in Russia. He signed with Lokomotiv
Novosibirsk. Excuse my Russian. So, yeah. I mean.
I think that's a good move for him from a career
trajectory. He was one of the best, if not the
best player in the NCAA all around. Playing here
four years, are they going to win? Probably.
He's that good, but is he going to get better?
No, you want to play against the best of the
best. I mean, he came, he won, he won up to his
brother, as he so charmingly said in his interview.
And, I mean, this makes sense for him. I'm thinking
about the Jay -Z song encore. I came, I saw,
I conquered. He did. Yeah, and he's out. So it'll
be interesting to see where Long Beach goes without
him next season. And just an update on the men's
Champions League side. Perugia are the 2025.
Champions League winners. They beat Zivertsev
from Poland in five all the way down to the wire.
And it was held in Poland. Yeah so that was a
big win by them and it was great volleyball.
You should check it out if you have a chance.
Look at that. Our shortest weekly highlights
ever. I think we just set a record. Time to get
to the meat of the episode. Time to dive into
VNL. Okay. For those of you who may not be familiar,
what is VNL? Volleyball Nations League. Okay.
For the first time, there's usually been 16 teams.
But for the first time this year, there are going
to be 18 teams represented by gender. And this
is kind of how it works. Okay. So each team plays
a minimum of 12 matches that are spread across
three weeks of competition. For every week of
competition, there are three locations around
the world and six teams get sent to each of those
locations. The crazy thing is you're only playing
four out of the five teams that are in your location
at any given time, any given week, which that
stumps me. Do you know how they do? Was it random
draw who you play, or is it based off seeding?
Like the top team doesn't play the bottom team?
It just seems strange to me. I'm pretty sure
the FIVB has arranged the schedule to make it
as fair as possible. That's what they say. So
basically by the time it's all said and done,
you will not have played five teams. Got it.
That seems strange to me, but... It is definitely
strange, but they... claim to have worked out
the most fair and efficient way to determine.
And what they mean by that is ChatGPT has determined
what? The FIVB's special algorithm has determined
who's playing who and who doesn't have to play
each other. So at the end of these three weeks,
the top eight teams advance to the final eight.
The kicker is that the host country gets an auto
birth. This year's host is Poland. They did make
the top eight last year. So it's not, they're
no slouches is what we're saying. So basically
host team and the top seven teams after them
make it to the final eight where they host a
quarter semis finals type of deal. The twist
this year, however, is that the last place team.
in the final standings when all is said and done
is going to be relegated and they can't play
VNL the next season. And the highest ranked team
at the end of VNL who did not participate this
season gets to play next year. I really like
the relegation piece to it. I think it gives
countries that are on the edge. something to
try and attain, something to push for. It means
you have to compete consistently in the pool
play. So I really like the relegation format
of it. The not playing everybody in your pool,
for me, and maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist.
Well, it's not even a pool. They just send six
teams, and they're calling the six teams a pool.
No, I understand that. change every single week
of every location they go to. Yeah, I get that.
But you're still not playing everybody. And that's
still up to interpretation behind the veil. Like
the conspiracy theory in me is, you know, they're
arranging it so that the biggest markets are
going to have a chance. Like this allows them.
It's not unheard of with the FIVB. They definitely
push for the success of countries who bring the
money. Sure. And again, it's a business. You
know, you have to make money to make the league
run. I get all of that. I just personally, I
like transparency and fair competition. And this
just behind the veil stuff always gets me the
wrong way. It definitely always leaves you being
like, what if? You know what I mean? But I do.
And you and I have spoken about this a lot. There
is something at stake for every. of the competition.
Correct. Which we have been critical of in certain
leagues and formats we've been watching lately.
So I like that even though you may blow it and
not make it to the final eight, you still have
to fight for something. So you can't just coast
and be like, whatever, this doesn't matter. The
relegation piece to me is great. I'm a huge fan
of that. So every country and... Based on the
number of messages we have received when these
rosters came out, a lot of you already know the
VNL rosters were released a couple weeks ago.
So every country submits a 30 -person wide roster
about a month before the competition starts.
And so once we enter the competition, there are
14 players and four alternates that are named
to the travel roster. each week. So whoever is
traveling, the alternates, the 14, whatever,
they can switch in and out match by match, but
that those 18 people are set for that week. Once
that week is over, the whole 30 opens up again.
So the travel rosters can switch week to week,
but only the players that were named to the original
30 person list can ever be selected, which has
brought up a lot of conversation and we will
dive into that. And another thing is that every
single match and every single set counts as far
as world ranking goes. You can't, if you want
to like hold on to your ranking or if that's
really important to a certain country at a certain,
at this point in time, if you're supposed to
win 3 -0, You need to win 3 -0 or you lose a
lot of points, basically. So I'm a huge fan of
the formulaic approach that they took to ranking
this. And I want to expand just a little bit
on the formula so that it's clear. It's not just
about wins and losses. Going into each match,
they generate a percentage chance that each of
the outcomes could happen. So a 3 -0 win, a 3
-1 win, a 3 -2 win, and then so on and so forth
for the next team. If you win in the highest
percentage, you have a smaller change to your
world ranking points. If there's a big upset,
you lose way more points. So not only if you
win or lose matters, but how you win and lose
matters. For me, I love the consistency. I love
the pressure of having to perform. I love having
to show up when it matters, which is all the
time at this level. We're talking about the best
in sport. I love this way of doing it personally.
Well, it's so wild. Like for the first round
of VNL, like, and this is updated after every
single match. So you can see what those percentages
are. If you go onto the volleyball world website
for the first round of matches and even like
a 10 versus 11 match, if the 11 seed upsets the
12, the 10 seed, the point swing is like. pretty
big and you would think with two teams that are
ranked that close it wouldn't be the case but
every match has implications which I think is
amazing and the other thing that I wanted to
touch on about relegation is like you see so
much stagnation in the indoor side internationally
you see the same teams performing all the time
you see the same teams at every competition so
I really like the relegation model to just kind
of mix things up a little bit because, I mean,
the contenders are perennially the same indoor
and you don't see much fluctuation at all. So
that is the Coles Notes summary of how VNL works.
Honestly, shout out to Avid Volley on Instagram.
They posted a comprehensive graphic recently.
Visualizing is more your thing and reading. Go
check out Avid Volley on Instagram for their
VNL graphic. And they provided a lot of useful
intel for this episode. So thanks so much. All
right. The moment people have been waiting for.
As soon as the VNL wide rosters were released,
we got so many messages about the American women's
roster. Fair. I had a lot of questions as well.
We have pulled together some data here, but I
think before we kind of critique and get into
everything here, it is worth saying that as the
host country of the next Olympics, the U .S.
gets an automatic birth. So they... Don't have
to worry about the qualification process at all.
As a host nation, you get a team in every single
sport. We actually had a listener question about
this, which asked, would this fact impact the
VNL roster selection? And do the coaches have
more time to test out players because of this?
I think absolutely that's the case. And we'll
get into this a little bit more. But knowing
that you're going. takes all of the pressure
off having to perform especially early in the
cycle and given the age of the American roster
for the last Olympics you're going to need a
whole bunch of new players so I don't mind them
having a young roster I still have some question
marks about it but This is the perfect opportunity
for a brand new staff who's trying to forge its
own identity as a program with incredibly high
expectations. I would say anything less than
a gold medal in 2028 is going to be a disappointment.
100%. You need to know how your athletes perform
against the best international athletes. And
they don't have any benchmarks because these
kids have been playing college. There's no comparison.
You don't know how they're going to respond.
They need to be out in the fire getting worked
to see how they respond and if they can get better.
And I think that the beginning of a cycle is
not critical. It's the last two years leading
into the Olympics that are the most important.
The tricky thing is with the world ranking system
as it is. If this team doesn't perform, they
could really plummet in the world rankings, which
may affect things in the run -up to the Olympics.
Who knows? But they are safe, and they will be
there. So we are going to talk about this roster,
basically not taking that into consideration.
We know that it's a fact, but we will be talking
about this roster. Just, you know, as it is.
So that being said, the U .S. wide roster selections
came out. And Adam did a lot of digging here
of the top teams in the world because the U .S.
is among them. Of the Olympic roster from Paris,
there are only three athletes that have been
named to the 2025 wide roster. Jordan Poulter,
Avery Skinner, and Dana Retke. Now, there's a
couple things to consider here. One is which
athletes are retiring. One is you have a bunch
of experienced athletes who may want the year
off, which is totally fine if there's communication
with the program. There's a couple athletes here
who I would kind of expect to either go to world
championships later this year or to be on the
VNL roster next year. Those would include Jordan
Thompson. Like, I don't think she's going to
be done. I don't know what your thoughts are
on Washington. I mean, she was injured for a
lot of the love season. So her not being on it
wasn't a shock to me. But I think if she doesn't
come back for Worlds or next year, I'll be surprised.
So she'll probably come back. Plummer is dealing
with some personal issues, which are condolences
to her. I would expect her to play. Wongarontis
is not on the roster, which I found pretty surprising.
I don't know if that was a program decision or
if that was a personal decision for her for wanting
a break. I know she did get married last year.
That was the biggest question mark to me. Justine
was the biggest question for you? Ogbalgu was
a question for me. Fair. And then Kelsey Cook
also. I'm like, I wouldn't be surprised either
way. Yeah. So a lot of players who probably could
have and should have been eligible to play on
VNL have either. And I would have to imagine
that these were personal decisions to opt out
of playing. Like if they wanted to play, they
would be on the roster. So it's curious to see
where their heads are at. They don't want to
compete this year. They need to take a year off
or they're trying to figure out if they want
to do a whole cycle because it's a grind. It's
a lot of investment. It's a lot of travel. So,
yeah. There are a lot of holes to fill and a
lot of spots to bring on, and they'll be a very
young and inexperienced squad. Which, given the
taking a break aspect, I find it very interesting.
I just want to throw it out there that the majority
of these athletes that are missing or are taking
time off opted to play in love for the purpose
of playing at home. I have done this before where
you go play overseas for nine months. You come
back home and you're not really home because
you have to be at the localized training center.
And you do that for three months. It's tough.
But for the ones who chose to stay domestic for
professional play, I'm not sure I would use that
as an excuse. I mean, you give yourselves three
years to the Olympics, but at the same time,
if your goal is to win a gold medal, all of your
competition is continuing to play. They're continuing
to gel as a team. They're continuing to integrate
the new players. Are you really that good that
as a program you can sit the majority of your
starting players and you are going to come back
and just win when you all decide to play? From
a performance standpoint? It's tough because
you're not the clear -cut favorites, in my opinion.
Adam touched on it. Your competition is continuing
to compete. Let's put a bookmark in that because
we are going to return to that. But let's just
go over the wide roster selection for people
who maybe don't know. How do you want to do this?
Do we want to just go through the roster or do
we want to talk about... snubs position by position
or go over it and then talk about snubs how do
you i like talking about let's we can talk about
some potential snubs and our thoughts on the
choices in general how about let's do it okay
let's start with the setters so the setters that
were named to the wide roster were jordan polter
jenna gray former setter for stanford rachel
fairbanks Ella Mae Powell, who played for Washington,
and Sage Kahina -Torres, who played for Love
Austin this past season. What are your overall
thoughts, and who do you think is missing? Looking
at this list, I'm like, okay, they clearly did
something to keep Poulter around because every
other Olympian was like, peace, we're taking
the summer off. So my thought was like, Sullivan's
thinking, if all else goes sideways and we cannot
pass the ball and we cannot do anything, at least
we'll have an experienced setter who can at least
put the ball in a hittable position. Like, having
experience in the setting position is critical.
So I'm not surprised that they somehow got her
to play. She might hate her life, though. There
is the possibility that she is more track athlete
than setter this season. We will touch on the
outsides in a bit. I'm shocked that Kahina Torres
is there. Given how she played in the love season,
I was jaw on the floor. Where do you think she's
going to play love next year? Probably for Eric
Sullivan at Austin. Fairbanks. I felt like she
would be in the conversation eventually. Powell,
I'm like, ow. These are wild. I mean, Fairbanks
did a great job this season. There's potential
there. And the thing is, you never really know
how a college athlete is going to transition
to the professional ranks unless you give them
a chance. So out of all of these, Fairbanks is
the one that makes the most sense to me. I think
Kami Miner is missing. That, for me, was also
the one. I think she had potential to play at
this level. I did hear, however, that she hasn't
graduated yet, and she finishes school like a
week before VNL starts. Well, and that's fair.
If there are reasons for that, so be it. But
that was a noticeable absence from the list.
Yeah. These aren't bad choices. The one, you
know my question mark with Sage. But I think
throughout my history playing against and watching
USA Volleyball, the Americans have always been
a very strong setting country. And so the fact
that I don't see anybody other than Poulter jump
out at me as like, yes, this person can run the
show is concerning. Well, I mean, look at...
You had five American setters setting in love
this year who were all, like, Olympic caliber
or in the gym and around that level, and you
only have one on this roster. Like, there is
a serious... Not two. Fairbanks as well. Fair.
You're going to have a serious turnaround in
that position, and it's, in my opinion, after
Poulter, it's open. It's fair game. I like having
four young setters here to come in and see who
can take the reins, but there is a large drop
-off, in my opinion, between Poulter and the
rest of these. 100%. I honestly think Izzy Stark
is the future long -term. I just think because
of her age, it would be too tough to get her
in for L .A. because she will have graduated
a year before. It's just too tight, but I think
long -term, Izzy Stark is the answer, but hopefully
Jordan Poulter can avoid injury and get them
through this season. Do you see any of the other
kind of older, I'm not calling them old, but
older setters for the Team USA coming back next
year? Well, Carlini already announced that she's
done with USA. So, Micah Hancock, I could...
potentially see. She's early 30s, early to mid
30s. This would probably be her last run. I wouldn't
be surprised either way. But the thing for me
is like you're hosting the Olympics. If you're
on the edge age wise, play anyway. Well, and
this is something that you need to consider going
forward is athletes who might normally retire.
Being in the Olympics in your home country is
a huge deal. There are. great financial opportunities.
It's an amazing experience to have your friends
and family there, to be here. This could potentially
extend some careers for USA players who were
maybe on the edge and wondering if traveling
for four more years was worth it. All right,
let's dive into the outside hitters on this roster.
Oh, boy. We have got Avery Skinner, Allie Franti,
Kalia Lanier. Ronnie Jones -Perry, Sarah Franklin,
Mackenzie Adams, and Logan Eggleston. What is
the first thing you think about when you see
this list? That four out of the seven played
in love. And a lot of them won't be able to pass.
That's the thing that... So this for me signals
a shift in philosophy for... US volleyball, which
I think is interesting. So generally when you
think about the US teams for the last decade,
two decades, incredible ball control, very good
setters, run a super fast offense. Unstoppable
middles, basically. Unstoppable middles, but
not super physical on the pins. So they're running
speed, they're holding the middle of the court,
and that's how they've played. You are transitioning
to more physical, heavy swinging outsides with
this list and your ball control. Like there's
no Jordan Larson. There's no person who can come
in and just say, I'm going to pass, you know,
with the libero three quarters of the court.
We're going to lock it down. You just pass a
sliver and away we go. There are going to be
seams on this court between passers, between
liberos. that are going to be exposed by very
good serving countries. And I'm curious to see
how this goes from a passing standpoint. 100%.
So Eggleston, Adams, Franklin, Jones, Perry.
They're big. Like literally all of them, I'm
like passing liability. Okay. Avery Skinner started
in Paris. I have no questions with her. Absolutely
not. Allie Franti coming off the bench for Vacav
Bank. She was on the travel rosters for several
VNL squads in the last little while. Kind of
phased out a little bit with the emergence of
Plummer and Skinner in recent years. But, you
know, I can get behind it, I guess. I'm wondering
how her passing is going to be having been in
Vacav Bank. Has she gotten better being around
great servers, playing in those leagues, playing
against that level of athlete? I'm curious. Well,
and your same thing was on the bench at Conigliano.
I mean, you're playing behind Gubby and Zhu Ting.
But to me, that's how you get better. So I'm
curious to see how those two specifically look.
at VNL because we haven't seen them play a ton.
Like you were on the bench, but you were in the
gym training against the best players in the
world. Lanier playing for the best team in the
world, even as a sub for the last, in her case,
I think a couple of years. So I am fine with
those decisions. Do I think Ronnie Jones -Perry
is an international caliber left side? No. Mackenzie
Adams, also no. Egleston, Franklin, even like,
I don't know the four who came from love for
me and don't misinterpret what I'm saying as
it's like, because they came from love. That's
not what this is. When I see the standard that
USA has set over the years, they just aren't
it. I don't disagree with you. And the thing
is with them coming from love is you don't have
a sample size. of what they can do against the
best players. Those are four question marks.
At least you know with Franti and Lanier, somebody
from the top organizations in the world saw something
in them that said, you belong in the gym with
us. Because I'll tell you what, that third position,
that third outside position, is important for
those teams. You don't know when you're going
to have an injury. You don't know, and let's
be honest, you get better training, not really
playing. So the fact that they were in the gym
doing that day in and day out, like that's the
important piece for those players. And so I'm
very curious to see, you know, there's going
to be a ton of video, there's going to be a ton
of preparation, what you're going to see from
a block defense standpoint. Like if you're hoping
that those four athletes are hitting out of double
blocks consistently against the top teams in
the world, that's a tall order for me. The outsides
are going to struggle in V &L this year, given
this list. And maybe we'll eat our words. Maybe
they'll prove us wrong. I don't know. But in
consultation with, as we mentioned, Avid Volley,
we kind of went through some potential snubs
in the outside position. Curious what you guys
think about this. So one potential snub is Simone
Lee. She played at Penn State, was playing for
Vallefolia in Italy this year. She's going to
go play in Brazil in Rio next season. So she
was a potential question mark of, like, why are
you not here? And another one was Tori Stafford.
I'm not sure how old Tori Stafford is, but I
was surprised she's not on any of the USA teams.
She's not on U23. So along with this VNL roster,
USA sends teams to the under 21 world championships
and the under 23 world championships. So a lot
of those athletes who are in college can play
on those teams. So at first I didn't see her
on the list because I think she's got good potential.
I'm not sure right now she's better than any
of these players or who you would replace her
with. But you would think given her caliber and
what she's done so far, be potentially thinking
about her. So when she wasn't on even a U23 roster,
I was a little surprised. And maybe, you know,
she's new to the Texas program and they wanted
more time with her in the gym before they start
their season. Like, I don't know. The curious
thing is, was that a personal choice or was that
a program choice? Yeah, fair. The other one that
was thrown out, which I'm not sure I would consider
this a snub, is Maddie Kubik. No, I don't. I
don't think she's at the level of the athletes
that are on the list currently. Agreed. Again,
when you go through the potential snub list and
you see how few legit possibilities there are,
it's like you realize just how big a hole these
veterans not showing up are leaving. Oh, yeah.
Like, it's massive. Because, like, would I pick
some of these players for a wide roster? No.
But when you take away the experienced veterans,
like, there really aren't that many good options.
The other one who's missing, and we believe that
it was a personal choice, but Jess Merzik is
not on this list. I think she came out and said
that she's burnt out and she needs a break. I
don't know if we want to talk about this here
or there, but in my opinion, this is a mistake.
I think it's a huge mistake. You are a young
athlete. You didn't have an amazing season at
Love. You are competing for one of four spots
for the 2028 Olympics as a coaching staff. When
you're that young with no experience, and don't
get me wrong, burnout is a thing. I get it. You
have to make decisions for yourself, but everybody
is in the same position. For you to do that,
I think this hurts her chance of making the roster
down the road, regardless of how good she becomes.
I agree. I mean, with the veterans taking the
summer off, this was your chance to prove your
worth and to show how valuable you are because
you might not get this opportunity again. When
those players, if those players come back, they
are experienced. They know how to win. They will
be selected to the roster. And, like, you may
have missed the boat. Yeah, even if you're injured,
if you can get on that roster and be around and
show the coaching staff how hard you work, how
diligent you are, your intangibles, like all
of that matters when you're picking a roster.
I think she's going to regret this decision.
This is part of pro sports. Like, yeah, sometimes
you are tired. Sometimes you feel burnt out.
And she alluded to some mental health struggles
and stuff like in a post after love. And it's
like I sympathize with what you're going through.
It is very hard to jump levels and kind of be
thrown into the spotlight. Trust me, I've been
there. But you also have to think about your
career long term. And maybe she doesn't, this
isn't important to her. Well, and again, I'm
not saying it's the wrong decision for her. I'm
saying if her goal is to play at the Olympics
in 2028. this is a setback and potentially one
you can't come back from. The final potential
snub is Kendall Kipp, who played at Stanford,
was with Vakif Bank in Turkey, recently signed
with Bergamo in Italy. Word on the street is
she is rehabbing an injury. So I'm assuming they
would have put her on the list, but due to injury,
they didn't want to use a roster spot if. She
wouldn't be ready. Yeah. And again, we don't,
we're not aware of the conversations that are
going on between the programs and the athletes.
So just looking at the list, I would agree with
you. Okay. Opposites. Everybody's favorite position.
We have got Madison Skinner, Taylor Mims, Danielle
Catino, Olivia Babcock, Logan Litnicki, and Stephanie
Samity. There are a couple people missing from
this list, in my opinion. I probably would have
put Kennedy Martin on this list. I know she's
super young and very inexperienced. I also didn't
see her on any of the U21 or U23 rosters, although
I may be mistaken. There's an athlete who's physical,
who probably has a future. The Olympics are four
years away. She might be ready. If I was going
to take a flyer on a player, it would probably
be her to get her into the gym to see what she's
like, to see how she responds to coaching. I
think she has a ton of upside. I would have liked
to see her on the list as not ready to play now,
but you want her in the system. The other question
that I think people might have is Tessa Grubbs.
who started over danielle catino for the majority
of the love season was dominant in love until
she got injured and catino who played basically
behind her all season made the roster and she
didn't so that was actually one of the questions
we had this week is why that happened i agree
with everything that's being said there i think
that i would have taken tessa as well the only
question is how did her how far back did her
injury set her would she be ready and you know
what was that conversation like but from a performance
standpoint you know all things being equal in
terms of health i would have taken grubs personally
well she was dressed for the matches at the end
of love do you know like i'm not saying that
that means that she's fine but yeah yeah I mean,
I agree. I was a little surprised that she wasn't
on the list and Katina was. Well, the other,
like, Lednicki for me, she's good. It's fine.
She's good. But she's, like, a little more raw
than the other ones. This is what I come back
to. If you're comparing kids in college, though,
Logan Lednicki is not Olivia Babcock. And Kennedy
Martin, like, if you're going to take Lednicki,
take Martin. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah,
I agree. If we're comparing kids that are that
age, that is confusing to me. Skinner, sure,
we've talked about her. Mims, she's played for
Navarra for the last couple seasons, formerly
for Washington State. Navarra's a top team in
Italy. I can get behind that. Coutinho's a question
mark, especially because she was only good for
the last few matches in love. Babcock, I think
she's your future. Samity, I haven't seen her
play. She's been in Japan for a little bit. But
in college, I wasn't a huge fan. Linnicky, Raw.
Yeah, and I guess it comes down to when I'm looking
at this roster, I'm comparing to the other international
rosters, to the players sitting in those. Who
on this list is going up against Boscovich? At
this point, nobody. And that's my point, right?
Who's going to go head to head with Paola Egonu?
None of them. So it's, again, you're building
towards 2028. I understand that you're looking
for your future in the program. There's just
so many question marks about how these athletes
are going to transition to the international
game. And it doesn't mean they're not good. That's
not what we're saying. It's just. You know, you
have a fraction of volleyball players who go
to college and you have an even smaller fraction
of players who can go play at the next level.
And if the ball control is not as good as they
are used to, which is, I think, a fair question
mark at this point, which of these players is
going to be able to score out of system consistently
against an international block defense? That's
the question you're looking to answer. Again,
there are holes to be filled. I understand why
the majority of these athletes were picked. For
me, the snub definitely comes to Tessa Grubbs.
Yeah, agreed. Agreed. Because she has proven
herself. More than somebody else on this list.
More than somebody else. Direct comparison. Exactly.
Direct comparison. All right. Two positions to
go, everybody. Let's talk about middle blockers.
So the middle blockers announced to the list
were Breon Butler, formerly of Texas, played
in Japan this past season. Amber Igied. Anna
Dodson played for UCLA after she just graduated,
signed for the second half in Italy. Will return
to Italy next season for Pinerolo. Meh, medium
team. Dana Retke, Asia O 'Neill. Tia Jemerson,
Molly McCage, Serena Gray. Okay, I'm sorry. Tia
Jemerson came out of nowhere. She had one good
love season, which further emphasizes my point
about Tessa Grubbs. I would say same situation,
similar situation coming in where you're like,
yeah, you're probably, you might be on the bench.
Like we don't really know what to expect of you.
both of them performed well in love. One of them
makes this roster. The other one doesn't. I definitely
have questions about Jimmerson. Definitely have
questions about Anna Dodson. And I don't know.
There's a, yeah. What do you think? Yeah. I mean,
I kind of liked the Jimmerson pick. I thought
she's dynamic. She's raw. I think that there's.
upside there i kind of feel like she got better
and better with the coaching that she received
so for me i just envision her going head to head
with sarah farr yeah or like zara gunish from
turkey and just these girls like right again
i'm not saying that she's at that point i'm saying
She's gotten better. She improved. You put her
in a situation where she was successful. She's
relatively physical. So give her a chance to
see where she can go. I'm more okay with that
pick than some of the other ones. Like what ones?
I mean, I haven't seen Dodson, but that would
be one. Trust me, I did UCLA games all season.
She's not the answer. I'm shocked that she is
on the list. Yeah, and McKage. McCage played
well in the final four of love. Yeah. Asia O
'Neal wasn't even a starter. On her love team,
barely sniffed the court, and you're going to
put her on the VNL roster? Same with Serena Gray.
Tori Dixon was starting over her. And you're
on the VNL roster? I understand that we were
saying Serena Gray should be starting all season,
but I'm just like, what is your criteria for
picking these? Names. This list to me more than
anything is about what you think you can have
down the future because none of these athletes
are international caliber at this point. Maybe
Breon Butler. Maybe. I mean, you have Dana Redkey.
Who had a terrible season at Exasi Bashi who
was on the bench for the last, at least she has
experience in that environment. Well, and she's
a relatively good blocker. But offensively, she
needs to put more work in because, again, if
you look at the caliber of middles that the USA
has historically had, there is a significant
drop -off here from what they're used to. Who's
missing from this list that you think should
be there? For me, Andy Jackson. Agreed. Now,
we did hear that Nebraska's kind of keeping their
players at home this summer. Understandable.
coaching change there's a big shift there's a
lot to kind of work through with that system
particularly for a program where the expectation
is to win but yeah i have heard that nebraska
is keeping players at home i don't want to talk
about that right now i have my own opinions about
see adam needs everybody to like him so he just
doesn't say they've The things that might be
controversial and then I say them and then everybody
comes at me. I didn't know if this was the place
to talk about that. But this is another instance
that kind of highlights the massive generational
gap and just how strong this former generation
has been. 100%. Because I don't know who else
I would pick. like I understand I'm critical
of these picks but like after that generation
that won those three four medals in a row it's
like there's a drop there's a there's a void
there for sure and they have to be filled players
are gonna have to step up and it'll be interesting
to see it's like you said there's nothing you
don't have any issue with these athletes per
se but there are very big shoes to fill with
very little experience. I mean, I do have some
issues. I just went through some of my issues.
Yeah, issues, but again, who would you replace
them with? Exactly. It's not that the picks are
bad. It's just that some of these athletes are
going to have to surprise us for the U .S. to
kind of stay ranked where they are. And again,
when I'm talking about these athletes, it's like
based on the standard that USA has set over the
years for the last three cycles. Yes, even if
there might not be better options from the standard
that the USA has, I think this is lacking. They
are in a rebuild. Again, I think it's a huge
mistake for those veterans to just... Take time
off. The only other middle, not the only other,
but one of the other middles who I thought might
be on this roster who's not is Sammy Francis.
I like the way she plays. She's big. She's physical.
She's got a little attitude to her. Yeah, I was
a little surprised. I didn't see her on any of
the rosters. I don't know if she's over 23. Well,
I think also she had to go back to school after
love too, right? That's true. That might be a
school issue. Maybe that's a school issue as
well. But she's somebody else who I would have
my eye on if I was running the program. Okay,
final group are the Liberos. We've got Morgan
Hentz, who played PVF for Atlanta, Lexi Rodriguez,
Zoe Jarvis, and Lauren Briseño, who played at
Baylor. I know you have a huge snub here. Just
let us hear it. I mean, you know my opinions
on Liberos. I think Elena Scott has risen to
all of the occasions that she's been put into.
And I'm a big fan of her setting. I'm a big fan
of how she plays the game. Attitude. I think
she has a lot of intangibles from what you can
see watching her play. I'm surprised she's not
on this list. I think that's a huge snub. I don't
know if that was a decision by her to take the
summer off or whatever. If it was, that's a massive
mistake for her. If that was, she made a huge
error. Like this was her chance. Justine's taking
the summer off. But if she didn't make that choice,
that was a huge miss by the staff. I agree. I
don't know what Zoe Jarvis is doing on this list.
I'm sorry. Like, what are you doing there? Morgan
Hentz, I can get behind. She is more of a veteran.
She was the backup to Justine for the last cycle,
like 100%. Lexi Rodriguez, I feel like a lot
of people believe. She was going to get her chance.
Yes, they were going to give her a chance. They
believe she is the future. I can get behind that.
The other two. Yeah. Particularly Jarvis. Like,
Brisenio, I haven't seen her play enough to really
have an opinion. But, yeah. I mean, we'll see.
So those are our impressions of the USA roster.
Let's just talk about how many Texas athletes
there are on this roster. Shall we? All right.
Here we go. Jarvis. McCage. O 'Neal. Butler.
Skinner, Eggleston, Kahina Torres. At least seven.
Maybe I missed someone. I was scanning through
real quick. Just saying. I think this is a slippery
slope. For who? For me or for the program? No,
for the program. And again, it's year one of
the cycle. You're guaranteed a spot. You have
a lot of senior athletes either sitting out or
retiring. As a coach, you need to put a good
showing in and you know these athletes. However,
there is always a bias towards people you know
and you've worked with if those relationships
have gone well. And you better make sure that
if you make those choices, those players live
up to expectation because the scrutiny of those
players will be higher than the other ones. So
if none of those other players get put on rosters
and don't perform, that's a tough look starting
a cycle. This, in my opinion, was a real gamble.
And TBD to see if this pans out. Because if it
doesn't and you pulled seven athletes that you've
previously worked with, that looks like favoritism,
which is not a great place for a program to be
for athletes coming in. That's not the culture
or the environment that you want. And it's definitely
not the environment that Karch had. Karch got
rid of great players because their attitude stunk.
Flat out, this is what it takes to win. I'm curious
to see how this plays out. All right, so I went
through and polled rosters, V &L rosters for
the top five or six teams. We were curious, basically,
if other countries... were kind of going through
the same transition that the Americans were going
through or which veteran players were leaving.
So Adam did some digging. So let's start with
Italy. Italy is returning 10 players. From their
Olympic roster. From their Olympic roster. So
again, yes, from the Olympic roster. And I would
say the only one of note who is missing would
be Bossetti. Very strong. They have to be looking
to win VNL this year. And quite frankly, they
are probably better than the U .S. in every position.
Hands down. And a lot of these athletes are in
their 30s. Yeah. They all play pro, and they
decided to come back. So Italy is fully loaded,
ready to rumble. Brazil is returning eight players
from their Olympic roster. You're missing two
liberos. Thaisa, who was more of a figurehead.
She's 38. She's retiring. I would say the most
noticeable missing player would be Kat Alder
-Middle, who is very good. So she's probably...
Not sure if she's done with national team. Maybe
she is. Yeah, I'm not sure. She's 34, so she
would be 38 going into the next cycle. She could
be taking a break, but... We've got Roberta,
the setter coming back, Gabi, Ana Cristina, Rosa
Maria, Bergman. They're going to be loving. They're
fine. They have eight returning, but they're
all very good players, lots of experience. They're
going to be a very strong team. Next would be
China. China's returning eight players. They
have a decent amount of turnover. Now, the thing
about China is their athletes are quote -unquote
old at a younger age. 26. Yeah, I mean, they
start much younger. The wear and tear of their
system is a little bit higher. Having played
in China for a couple seasons, it is rare for
athletes to play into their 30s. So they do have
some roster turnover, but, I mean, they're always
strong. They have athletes coming, playing pro.
But are still returning eight. Yeah, they're
still returning a starting lineup. They're going
to be solid. Zhu Ting is taking the summer off,
it looks like. She's 30, which for a Chinese
volleyball player is considered old. Now, they
did retire both of their setters. So it'll be
interesting to see who comes in, what the offense
looks like, what that transition is. That was
of note and interesting. If we look at Poland,
they also are returning eight athletes. A couple
retiring. Their setter is 35. Volosh, that's
a big piece. She is going to continue to play
pro, but that's a big piece that they're going
to be missing. Yeah, so it'll be interesting
to see who steps in there to set. They had a
young middle blocker who's also not coming back
by the name of... Alagirska. Yeah, I think she
played for some decent pro teams. But again...
But the foundation is there. Yeah, you're returning...
eight of your athletes, so they're going to be
good. Now, this is where it gets a little interesting.
Serbia is only returning four athletes, similar
to the U .S., but they struggled in the last
Olympics. They were very bad last season. They
won Worlds the year before and then came out
last year in the Olympic year and were honestly
terrible. Yeah. Guidetti was coaching them. left
to go coach Canada. TBD on how that's going to
work out. Yeah. So they have a lot of turnover
here. And some older athletes, but also some
younger athletes. So they are, I would say this
is a full rebuild program wise. Most notable
returner is Boscovich. If without her, they're
in trouble. Correct. But Dirtza. She was setting
for Fenerbahce this year. Boucher left. Onienovic,
I mean, Onienovic is 40. She was a setter. She
was kind of like backup, just there for assurance
purposes the last year. Jovana Stevanovic, she,
I mean, plays for Zazibar, but hasn't really
been starting for the national team. Kortadzic.
who was the middle for Milano. She's a notable
miss for me. Now, I could see a lot of these
athletes waiting to see what the program looks
like, how much funding they have, how it's all
going to look like. I wouldn't be surprised to
see some of these players back next year, but
that program is going to be in flux this year,
I would say. Well, I would say that's the only
top team. That is kind of going through the same
thing that the U .S. is. And we only looked at
the top, top teams. Because when we look at Turkey.
Well, they're returning 11 players. They're going
to be the exact same. The only player they're
not returning, really, is their 37 -year -old
middle, Erdem. Which, okay, makes sense. But
they're fully intact. So, all that to say, I
don't know what you think about this, but I think
looking at this and what the other top teams
are doing. all of whom play professionally, all
of whom are in their late 20s to mid 30s, all
of them have chosen to play this season. So I'm
thinking that this decision by the American veterans
and Olympians is very questionable. So it's interesting.
The U .S. has a bit of a different situation
than anybody else, any of the other top teams
in the world. So all of the national teams, get
to watch their athletes from a young age play
professionally against the best athletes in the
world. You have a very good sample size of who
your athletes are coming through just because
of where they play. Because a lot of the American
athletes, almost all of them, play college first,
you only see them against their peers, not against
the best in the world. And while I think having
a pro league in the U .S. is a very good idea
long term, Until you can pull some of those top
athletes in the world to play here, you have
no idea what Sarah Franklin looks like against
a top block in the world. You have no idea what
all of the other young U .S. players look like
in this situation. You have less data for these
U .S. players than any other country in the world.
And that is a very interesting... place to be
in when it comes to roster construction and so
I mean I understand you want to throw these young
athletes into the fire and see what do we have
how do we compete can you play at that speed
can you play at that size what is your mentality
like when you know you're up against it and you
have to hit against that block so I don't necessarily
disagree with having all of these younger athletes
on the roster and maybe you didn't have a choice
because well yeah he might not have had a choice
but i'm saying like the athletes to make that
choice i think it's questionable yeah i'm not
saying it's he sullivan made the choice necessarily
but for the athletes to choose that yeah it's
i don't know it's going to be a very interesting
watch to see how they compete against these teams
and just quickly going through the canadian roster
Pretty much everybody that was expected to be
there is there with the exception of Alexa Gray.
So their most important player. I think the absence
of Gray is going to hurt them way more than they
might think. I would agree with that. And I don't
know, maybe she chose to take the time off. I
don't know what the reason is for her not playing,
but I think her absence is going to seriously
be felt. Agreed. The other question was, where's
Jen Cross? Jen Cross had ACL surgery, I want
to say last year. So she was nearing the end
of her career anyways. I don't know if she recovered.
I don't know if she's planning on playing again,
but that is what had happened to her. But all
the other people who were there in the run -up
to the Olympics, you know, Brie O 'Reilly, Kira
Van Ryk, Shaina Joseph, Hilary Howe, Emily Maglio,
Jasmine White. Like, the core group that made
the run at the Paris Olympics is still there,
minus Gray. I mean, if you're going to qualify,
this is the quad to do it because the U .S. is
in automatically. So you better have it together.
Yeah, this is Canada's chance, honestly. In looking
at what is kind of being thrown out there from
the international teams and what the commitments
are made there, how do we think this American
team will do in VNL? So they're currently ranked
third in the world, correct? Yeah. If I had to
bet, I would say they will squeak into the top
eight for VNL. If I had to guess, I would say
they will be seven. Really? Are you lower than
that? You're being more generous than me. Maybe
they will squeak into the final eight. But, like,
by U .S. standards, that's terrible. They're
going to take a dip, no question. But I think
just because they don't have experience doesn't
mean that you won't find a couple athletes who
can rise to the occasion. They're big. They're
physical. They have assets here. They have Poulter
to lead them. They all know how to play volleyball.
They're not going to compete with the Italy's
and the Brazil's, in my opinion. Turkey. Yeah.
But they will, I think, if the roster is managed
properly and they take what they learn and they
adjust and they play to win versus giving players
a chance to see who they are, I think they can
finish. That might be fair. I figured it would
be a stretch, a push for them, a challenge to
make the final eight. Yeah, I think that they're
going to be playing meaningful games at the end
of the tournament to get in. But could Avery
Skinner be all world for three weeks? Sure. Could
Madison Skinner figure it out on the right side
and score points? 100 % they have the capabilities
to do that. They have the capabilities not to
do that. But it wouldn't surprise me if three
or four of the athletes on that list play really,
really well. And again, you have those teams
that are in the 6 -10 bubble. The U .S. has the
swagger factor. You know, when they step on the
court, that's probably worth a few points. Not
when you're playing Turkey or Italy, because
they'll be like, who are these people? Yeah,
but that's not who I'm talking about. Who was
playing when they played Canada? If they're playing...
Well, Canada's going to be like, this is our
chance to win. We better not mess this up. They
still have to do it. But who are the teams? What
does that look like when they play Japan? What
does that look like? Germany, Netherlands. Exactly.
At the end of the day, they're still wearing
the USA uniform. I think the story for me is
going to be who is named to the world championship
roster. Yes. Okay, you know what? You don't want
to come back and play national team for a couple
months. Sure, your choice. The story for me will
be who decides to show up for world championships.
And if the roster looks the same then, that'll
be a different conversation. Well, if I'm running
the program, I'm looking at this as a fact -finding
and a character -determining, you know. summer.
And then you're trying to win world championships
as you are every year. So it'll be a very interesting
summer in the USA gym. Okay, let's dive into
some listener questions. We did address a few
of them over the course of the episode, but here
are the ones that we didn't directly talk about.
Question one. What new athletes do you think
are going to be on the 2028 Olympic team and
which longtime members won't be on that roster?
Do you think Dana Retke will see playing time
if she's on the roster again? I think Dana Retke
will see playing time. Assuming that she continues
to get better and to keep growing, to me she's
one of their leading candidates in the middle
position at this point. The list that is out
there currently, I think she does have a better
chance of playing this time around. Yeah. I mean,
right now, depending on what happens with Washington,
her and Ogbagu are kind of my one -two. Washington
and Ogbagu would be my two picks still. I'm assuming
Ogbagu will be back. Yeah. Question mark on Washington.
I'm not sure. Yeah. So which longtime players
do I think won't be back? We know Carlini's out.
Jordan Larson's out. I bet Annie Drews will not
be around until 2028. Cook is a question mark
for me, but I feel like she will want to play
at home for the Olympics. And I agree with you.
I think whether she gets that spot or not depends
on how the rest of the team passes. Agreed. I
think the ball control issue will be very obvious
very quick, and if they need somebody like her,
I can see them calling her back. The new players,
who from this V &L roster do you think could
be their long -term? I mean, Poulter, Skinner,
Skinner, Retke. Those five? I would probably
add maybe one of Henson Rodriguez, and I'd probably
add Babcock. Babcock is fair. I think the other
ones are honestly up in the air. Yeah. I mean,
if you made me pick, those would be the ones.
Would I be shocked? Could Franklin raise the
level of her game? Sure. Will she? There's just
so many question marks. I'd love to answer this
question again after we watch VNL. I mean, some
of these players are going to have to make the
roster because all of the veterans are not coming
back. So a few of them will have to be staples.
Maybe we'll revisit this after VNL. Again, you
have to see them play at this level. How out
of place do they look? What's the decision making
like? How do they compare to the speed and size?
You know, lots of questions. Question two, if
you were in Eric Sullivan's shoes, how would
you have gone about the VNL roster building process?
I mean, probably pretty similarly. to be honest.
I hate to say it, we're ripping this roster apart,
and then we're like, but we wouldn't have changed
anything. But you have to, again, because you
don't have, and I mentioned this before, the
data of seeing these players against international
rosters, you have to give them a chance. You
don't know which diamond in the rough is out
there who just loves playing at this level. And
so... We talked about some snubs who we thought
should be on that roster, whether they declined
or they didn't want to be there or they were
programmed decisions, TBD. But this year is about
seeing what you have. And it will be more interesting,
like you said, to see what decisions come out
of VNL for Worlds. Question three, who do you
think will take over the national team setting
position? Not just for LA 28, but like into the
future for future cycles. So this person listed
some potentials as being Kimmy Miner, Rachel
Fairbanks, Jenna Gray, Bergen Riley, Izzy Stark,
Poulter and Hancock are on the older side. But
who do you see leading this team into the future?
My pick is Izzy Stark. I think she's the future
for USA Volleyball. She's big. She's mobile.
She's good in and out of system. She is my long
-term pick, but I don't know if you have... Yeah,
I like Izzy Stark as well. I think Kami Miner
is very good. To me, it would be Izzy Stark right
now would be my number one with my number two
tied between Kami and Fairbanks. Kind of fighting
it out to see. I think both of them have strengths
and weaknesses. I'd want to see them run. a team
with all of usa weapons okay our last question
adam in the hot seat who do you have for your
three middle blockers for la 20 to 28 in an ideal
world like we don't know who's gonna like there
are some question marks about retirement obviously
but washington retke and obagu he didn't even
hesitate now i will put one caveat on that i
think andy jackson definitely has the potential
to make this roster potentially instead of retki
she's more offensive minded dynamic and more
dynamic so she's one that i would keep my eye
on she's not on the roster so i don't know what
her plans are well she's only gonna have two
years post -college before the games too yeah
now If she's allowed to play national team next
year, I think that makes a big difference. I
just, I like the way she plays. I like how dynamic
she is. And I think the US is going to need to
be dynamic in the middle to compete. So I think
she's a dark horse for me. And I think that Sammy
Francis, to me, she's behind Andy Jackson, but
she's got potential. And I'd be curious to see
her you know, with a full professional season
under her belt, those would be my kind of three
plus two. I think the first year after the Olympics
is always interesting in terms of which teams
are retiring players, you know, which currently
the U .S. looks like they're doing, new head
coaches, new systems, different funding. You
know, it kind of sets the foundation for what
your plans are going into the next Olympics.
I think that with the Olympics being in the US,
there's an incredible amount of pressure. I don't
disagree with them looking at all of the options
and trying to figure out what they have and what
the choices are. I think this summer is going
to be very telling, especially for the US. I
think for the other top countries, you know what
you're going to get. Most of them are returning
their players. I think after LA, you'll see a
lot of... turnover in some of those other programs,
but for this Olympics, I don't see much movement
in those top kind of five countries, and it'll
be up to the U .S. to raise their young players
to that level. Well, let us know your thoughts.
We were very opinionated, as always, but let
us know what you're thinking as far as the roster
as it is, the choices that were made based on
who is taking time off, who do you think is coming
back. There's a lot of things to speculate about,
but the VNL for women starts not this week, but
next week, June 3rd. So be sure to tune in and
we will be covering the men's VNL rosters next
week. That concludes this week's episode of Volley
Talk. There's always something shaking in the
volleyball world, and we hope you enjoyed this
little fix. Be sure to follow the show so you
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.com. Thanks so much for joining us, and we'll
be back next week.