WEBVTT

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Good evening everyone and welcome to another

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episode of live with dr. Andre Jerry Tonight's

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broadcast is a special one. It's a conversation

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born from tragedy, but shared with the hope of

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saving lives. So as many of you are aware, this

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past summer has seen a troubling spike in boat

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-related incidents across Georgia. Over the 4th

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of July weekend alone, the Georgia Department

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of Natural Resources reported six fatalities,

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23 injuries, and 21 separate boating incidents

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across state waterways. By mid -May, the state

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had already recorded five boating fatalities

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and 27 drownings. And we're on pace for what

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could become a record year, unfortunately. In

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the midst of this difficult backdrop, we recognize

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the devastating July 4th accident that occurred

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on Lake Oconee, a tragedy that claimed the life

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of a young child. Now, out of respect to the

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family, we're not going to revisit the details

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of that incident. Instead, tonight we focus on

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the lessons learned, the reminders, the safety

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practices, and the preventative measures that

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can help families be better prepared. Sadly,

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incidents like this will likely continue to occur,

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but our hope tonight is that what's heard on

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the show in this episode may help save the life

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of another emergency as it unfolds on the water.

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So I want to commend the survivors of that tragic

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day, as well as those who responded for their

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courage in coming forward and participating in

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tonight's episode. You know, it takes an extraordinary

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strength to turn pain into purpose. And tonight's

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panel has chosen to do exactly that, to honor

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a child's memory by equipping others with knowledge

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and awareness. Joining me for this important

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discussion are Jason Timothy, who organized this

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group tonight and brought us together for the

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show. Derek and Davina Jenkins, who are residents

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of Lake Oconee and who lived through that incident.

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Also on the line, Greg Ryan, a local business

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owner and diver who stepped in heroically during

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the rescue. So to each one of you, I want to

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thank you for being here tonight. Your voices

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will definitely make a difference. And Jason,

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let's begin with you. First, welcome to the show.

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I wish it were under different circumstances,

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but I want to thank you personally for approaching

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me with the idea to do this episode. You could

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have taken this conversation to any number of

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other platforms, but you chose this platform

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and the Artist First Radio Network. So I just

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want to say thank you for trusting me to facilitate

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this discussion tonight. Hey, Dr. Jerry, I hope

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you don't mind if I call you Andre. It's a little

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more natural with me. Please. Well, yeah, absolutely.

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Thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah,

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I definitely appreciate you and Artists First

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for basically accommodating us, giving us an

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outlet to have this conversation right. And even

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though you said there were a number of outlets,

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I really would say that you were the first person

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that came to mind. I've listened to a lot of

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the episodes. I really think that, you know,

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the messages are very good, you know, entertaining

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and everything like that. And to your point,

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I really wish it was under different circumstances.

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But nonetheless, this is an important one. It's

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sort of weighing on us. And it's just one of

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those things that really just needs to occur.

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So thank you to you and your team and everybody

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else in the audience really for tuning in and

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allowing us a chance to talk. Thank you I appreciate

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that and you know like I said it takes courage

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to step forward after something so painful and

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to say you know how can we turn this into a teaching

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moment and that's the heart of what we're doing

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tonight just to make sure families who may be

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listening will walk away a little bit more prepared

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than they were yesterday so Let me just first

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ask you, Jason, how are you holding up? I know

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this has had to impact you and your family. How

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are you holding up? Yeah, maybe a little better

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than I would have thought at this point. I do

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think as a family myself and the people around

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me, we sort of champion resiliency. Oftentimes,

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I think there are good days and bad days, good

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moments and bad moments. You never know when

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it's going to creep up on you. Something you

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see, something you hear. And, you know, it affects

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each and every one of us, you know. But for the

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most part, I'd like to think that we will do

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our best to be resilient and learn and just ensure

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that we can just not be broken but be better.

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you know, even coming out of a tragic situation

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like this one. Right. Um, and I know just, you

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know, we've been friends for a good number of

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years. I know that you're an avid Fisher. You're

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out in the water a lot. Um, has this incident

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kind of discouraged you from getting back out

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in the water? Was there a interim period where

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you kind of took a pause or how are you dealing

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with getting back out there and doing the hobbies

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that you love so much? Yeah, so before I answer

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that question, it's a good question. And it's

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very applicable to exactly what I just did. But

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just a quick, really to the Roche family, as

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we start this out, I really just want to say

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that, again, very sorry for what occurred that

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day. I hope that anything that you hear on the

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line today is really helpful and you understand.

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If I could just speak to that for a moment, you

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know, just understand that, that, you know, we

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feel the pain and we're trying to do something

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to basically help everyone that might have been

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touched by the incident, right? Because I think

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there are probably other people outside of our

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group that might have heard it and equally as

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touched. So, you know, just in honor of Philly,

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I just really hope that someone really finds

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some good value in this conversation. I just

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want to kind of say that upfront if you don't

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mind. No, I'm glad you did and I wasn't even

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sure whether to bring up the name specifically,

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but I'm glad that you did because the entire

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premise of this show is to honor the loss that

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occurred that day and finding some type of way

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to turn a tragedy into something that could help

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other people. I think that's the best way to

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honor the family, honor the loss. So I'm so glad

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you mentioned that before we got into the meat

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of the discussion. Just to frame everything and

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we want to show respect to the family, of course.

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So again, anything said during this show tonight

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is to have the outcome of showing honor to the

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family and to prevent a similar accident from

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occurring in the future. So thank you again for

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mentioning that. Yeah, absolutely. So I tell

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you, I mean, I've got a, I don't know, maybe

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it's... Maybe a love -hate relationship or a

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or a fearful not fearful relationship with water

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You know, I'm not a I'm not a swimmer. I look

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very ugly in the water I I've tried I do a little

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bit. I don't mind getting in But you know my

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association with it is not a very comfortable

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association with water. All right, so we kind

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of say that up front But probably my number one

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hobby is fishing Right and not just your regular

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everyday fishing. I mean I I go offshore I go

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offshore. I went offshore this past weekend and

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So for me, it's I don't think that we In general

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can avoid water, right? I think there's certain

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activities that we do as people That we that's

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absolutely in our control, right? So we can choose

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whether to go to the beach and get in the water,

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right? That's our choice, but But one might not

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be able to choose, you know, getting on an aircraft

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and flying over a body of water, right? So I

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think water is everywhere around the planet.

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It's a bunch of water, everything like that.

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But when it comes to me and my hesitancy, I'm

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really looking for a positive association with

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water at the end of the day. I'd like to be a

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strong swimmer. It's a goal of mine, especially

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now. I'd like to continue to do the things that

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I like to do, go offshore, hunt big fish, catch

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big fish and bring it home, feed the family.

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But I'd like to do it in a safer way. So no,

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it has not made me any less apprehensive about

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being in the water, being around water. It's

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just this event, the way it unfolded really just

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made me understand that I shouldn't be sort of

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complacent around water, but in fact sort of

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have some tools and some skills. To allow me

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to be around water and be more comfortable and

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maybe even survive it if I were to be in the

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water Like we need experience And I think it's

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also important to note at this juncture to just

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for those who are not familiar with the story

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this Incident that occurred had nothing to do

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with any negligence on you guys as part. Unfortunately,

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there were some other boats that came a little

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too dangerously close to the water and then caused

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the boat to capsize and flip over so just for

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a background I don't want anyone listening or

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you know who's not familiar with the story to

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think that there was some negligence on any of

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you guys part but I appreciate you I'm glad that

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you're able to at least get back into your hobbies

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I we've had conversations you know before you

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know we got on the air, and I told you that this

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really would have sent me back mentally for a

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while. And so I really admire how you guys are

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willing to just frame the conversation in a different

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way. And although it's very difficult to talk

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about this type of subject, at least be willing

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to have a conversation and be uncomfortable for

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a little bit to help others and to help them

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to appreciate. being safe on the water, having

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a safety plan and all the things that we'll talk

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about today. So again, thank you. I'm gonna,

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we're definitely gonna circle back around to

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you Jason, but I want to quickly move over to

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Derek and Davina Jenkins who are also on the

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line. We'll start with you, Davina, and thank

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you again for both of you coming on the show

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and willing to talk about your story and the

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impact this had on you. How are you and your

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family holding up since this incident? Thank

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you again for having us on. How are we holding

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up? You know, I think we're progressing along,

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you know, kind of like Jason said, there are

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moments where, you know, the tickets are back

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naturally, you know, if you see something or

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hear something, you know, even listening to you

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give the little intro was a bit triggering. But

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we're here and we're getting through it. Well

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again, thank you and certainly I didn't mean

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to this just was gonna be a difficult conversation

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at either rate But again, like I mentioned before

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we're gonna we're gonna do our best to get through

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it today. But again, thank you I know that you're

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a mother and that your kids were also on the

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boat Just for parents who are listening and they're

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planning on going on the water later this month

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or later in the year What's something quick that

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you can? give them in terms of considerations

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before they take their children or child on a

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boat? Yes, absolutely. The number one thing is

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life jackets. The number one thing is to have

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a life jacket. And not like floaties, you know,

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or little inflatable toys. An actual life jacket

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that is sized properly. That's important as well

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because A life jacket that fits me or fits my

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husband is not necessarily sized for a five -year

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-old. So just making sure that the sizing is

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correct and that it is a viable life jacket,

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not just a kind of inflatable toy, that's my

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number one thing. Absolutely. And I'll go over

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to Derek for a second. Derek, welcome to the

00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:46.720
show and thank you again for being here. We had

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a preliminary call before this show just to talk

00:13:50.539 --> 00:13:53.320
about some of our talking points. And I remember

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you opened up about how difficult it's been to

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carry some of the emotions from that day, especially

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the feeling that maybe you could have done more

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or should have done more. And I think it's important

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to touch on the psychological impact that comes

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from surviving something like this and particularly

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survivors remorse or survivors guilt. That's

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something that a lot of people wrestle with after

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a tragedy. Where are you now, Derek, in terms

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of unpacking those feelings? And has anything

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helped you begin that process since we last were

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on the phone? Well, you know, I think I go with

00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:38.419
everybody says that you have your moments, um,

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ups and downs. So I'll start by saying, BTSD

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is real. Um, I remember when the, the, when the

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incident happened and once everybody made it

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back home, um, well, not everybody, uh, I remember

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being in the bed and, and next to it, to the

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Xena. And I remember telling her, You know, my

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heart is racing. Like I can't, like I can't fall

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asleep. Um, and I don't think I got pretty much

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any sleep that night. Um, and so the experience

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and the emotions that one goes through, you know,

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you, you just got to process it. You have to,

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I think talking about it, um, with people, uh,

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talking about with family as we experienced it.

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One of the things I learned is. Everyone had

00:15:35.789 --> 00:15:38.909
a different experience. It was a collective experience,

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but everyone involved saw something different,

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went through something different, and processed

00:15:48.149 --> 00:15:51.950
everything differently in the moment. And so

00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:57.370
coming out of that, all of us are coping however

00:15:57.370 --> 00:16:04.409
we deal with it. So how am I doing now? to Dezina's

00:16:04.409 --> 00:16:07.710
point and it's not necessarily triggering but

00:16:07.710 --> 00:16:11.730
the emotions are there. Some days or sometimes

00:16:11.730 --> 00:16:16.149
I can talk about what happened without a tear

00:16:16.149 --> 00:16:20.149
falling and other times I got to stop. And what

00:16:20.149 --> 00:16:22.509
I've learned to do is just let the emotions be.

00:16:22.629 --> 00:16:28.110
Like don't fight them, don't dismiss them but

00:16:28.110 --> 00:16:32.940
allow the emotions to run their course. Uh, and

00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:38.340
then the people around you, um, you know, especially

00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:40.100
your loved ones, but even for me, it was hard

00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:45.120
even informing coworkers of what happened because

00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.580
I don't, you know, I was trying to hedge against,

00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.200
I don't know if I'm going to have a moment in

00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:52.360
the workplace or something going to trigger me

00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:55.980
at any point. And so I had to be cognizant of

00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:59.559
letting people I work with know something that's

00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:04.430
that I wasn't okay. And there might be, you know,

00:17:04.490 --> 00:17:08.069
I might have a moment. So if I do, just know

00:17:08.069 --> 00:17:12.710
that I'm dealing with something. Understood.

00:17:13.349 --> 00:17:16.710
And it's important to know that everyone works

00:17:16.710 --> 00:17:19.210
through things and processes things and grieves

00:17:19.210 --> 00:17:21.849
things out differently. There is no right or

00:17:21.849 --> 00:17:25.130
wrong way to process anything, especially something

00:17:25.130 --> 00:17:28.089
like this. So I'm glad that you had the presence

00:17:28.089 --> 00:17:31.089
of mind to you know as much as you didn't probably

00:17:31.089 --> 00:17:33.829
want to reiterate it or relive it that you at

00:17:33.829 --> 00:17:36.170
least let you know people who are close to you

00:17:36.170 --> 00:17:39.690
people who you work with on a daily basis um

00:17:39.690 --> 00:17:42.450
just you know let them know you know what happened

00:17:42.450 --> 00:17:45.309
what you lived through what you experienced so

00:17:45.309 --> 00:17:48.029
that in the event you have a moment or need to

00:17:48.029 --> 00:17:51.750
take a a break um to gather yourself they know

00:17:51.750 --> 00:17:54.329
the backstory about what's happening and what

00:17:54.329 --> 00:17:57.670
you've been dealing with so i just so appreciate

00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.900
I appreciate you talking about the emotional

00:17:59.900 --> 00:18:03.259
side of this, because I think it's just as important

00:18:03.259 --> 00:18:06.160
for someone who may be listening that's gone

00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.240
through something similar. Just hearing you tonight

00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.099
is helping them to work through whatever they're

00:18:12.099 --> 00:18:15.140
working through. And I remember when we were

00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:19.200
on the preliminary call, David was on the line.

00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:22.220
I think David has since dialed in, but David

00:18:22.220 --> 00:18:24.819
McCollum, who's a New York City firefighter and

00:18:24.819 --> 00:18:27.759
a longtime friend of Jason's, who's gonna be

00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.779
on to share his professional perspective on things.

00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:33.200
But he was on the call with us and I remember

00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.380
him reassuring you that your first responsibility

00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:39.500
was to your household and make sure that your

00:18:39.500 --> 00:18:41.839
wife and your children who were also on the boat

00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.059
were okay. And that you did exactly what you

00:18:45.059 --> 00:18:47.700
were supposed to do in that moment is to hit

00:18:47.700 --> 00:18:51.140
up your family. And so I don't wanna speak for

00:18:51.140 --> 00:18:54.039
you, but did that help you to? the move forward

00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.799
in terms of processing this and framing it in

00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.480
a way that was a little bit more helpful for

00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:05.039
you? Yeah, it does. I mean, having support from

00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.619
friends like that, you know, there's no playbook

00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:11.619
for a crisis situation. Even I'm pretty sure

00:19:11.619 --> 00:19:14.660
David will speak to being a firefighter and they

00:19:14.660 --> 00:19:17.359
train, but every house is different. Every situation

00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.880
is different. And then for someone like myself

00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:24.920
who isn't trained in crisis like this, There's

00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.440
no playbook for it. And so the actions you take,

00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.319
the steps you take, you question whether they

00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:34.400
were the right ones. Could you have done something

00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:39.859
more? That plagued me a lot. I was a lifeguard

00:19:39.859 --> 00:19:45.779
at a local pool in my teenage years. And so some

00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:49.440
of the training that I recall, just being in

00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.539
the water when you're in a situation where somebody

00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:55.220
is um, um, may not be the strongest swimmer.

00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:57.359
Um, some of that kicked in because my daughter,

00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:58.980
I remember her being a little, she had a life

00:19:58.980 --> 00:20:02.519
jacket on, but she was very frantic. Um, but

00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:07.359
it, the, that, that haunted me for a while of

00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:09.960
could I have jumped in that I've swam? Could

00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:11.759
I have done this? Should I've, should I've done

00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.400
that? But to your point, my first instinct was

00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.940
to my family. Um, and that boat split, I have

00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:21.990
the presence of mind to Slow things down while

00:20:21.990 --> 00:20:23.670
they were happening like it felt like everything

00:20:23.670 --> 00:20:26.210
was happening in the slow motion Remembering

00:20:26.210 --> 00:20:28.529
the water coming over to find the boat filling

00:20:28.529 --> 00:20:33.170
the boat tip when it started to tip and I remember

00:20:33.170 --> 00:20:38.230
saying to myself, you know to jump out and and

00:20:38.230 --> 00:20:40.589
I had my family close to me and wanting to push

00:20:40.589 --> 00:20:43.430
them because Didn't want the boat to I don't

00:20:43.430 --> 00:20:45.289
want to fall on a boat or what the boat fought

00:20:45.289 --> 00:20:49.319
falling on us. And so when that happened falling

00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.700
in or jumping into the water and then watching

00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:56.740
each one of them pop up. There was a sense of

00:20:56.740 --> 00:20:58.759
relief in that moment, like, okay, my family

00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:02.960
is accounted for. And then it was, I got to get

00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.019
them out the water. And so those were the steps.

00:21:07.059 --> 00:21:10.339
That was the process I went through. It's like,

00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:12.660
to your point, to what we talked about earlier,

00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:17.700
looking back now that knowing that Tilly was

00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:20.660
still under the boat, there's always that I could

00:21:20.660 --> 00:21:24.539
have done more should I have done more. Um, and,

00:21:24.700 --> 00:21:26.500
but maybe I was risking my life if I would have

00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:29.059
done something more. It might be two people on,

00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:33.480
but, um, but yeah, you just, there's no playbook.

00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:37.319
So the actions you take for me, it was to save

00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:39.859
my family or my family's worst. And that's the

00:21:39.859 --> 00:21:42.259
step I took in knowing that that was the right

00:21:42.259 --> 00:21:44.900
action and hearing someone like Dave, a firefighter

00:21:44.900 --> 00:21:48.990
saying, Yes, you did the right thing. It does

00:21:48.990 --> 00:21:54.089
help. It does help a lot. Absolutely. I'm glad

00:21:54.089 --> 00:21:57.410
that what he said, you know, aided you in helping

00:21:57.410 --> 00:22:00.549
to get beyond this. I don't think you ever get

00:22:00.549 --> 00:22:03.250
beyond it, but at least to make the way and the

00:22:03.250 --> 00:22:05.490
path a little bit better for you in terms of

00:22:05.490 --> 00:22:09.410
moving on from this incident. I'm glad that you

00:22:09.410 --> 00:22:11.789
were able to recover your family. Again, a heart

00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:15.950
goes out to the family who had a loss. Davina,

00:22:16.829 --> 00:22:18.789
you had to live through this right alongside

00:22:18.789 --> 00:22:23.130
your husband. From your perspective, how have

00:22:23.130 --> 00:22:25.349
the two of you had to support each other in terms

00:22:25.349 --> 00:22:27.849
of navigating the emotions that came with being

00:22:27.849 --> 00:22:33.589
survivors of an incident like this? I think for

00:22:33.589 --> 00:22:38.970
us, we were just very, I think, patient a little

00:22:38.970 --> 00:22:43.079
bit, you know, with each other in terms of letting

00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:48.700
each other and our kids to just process things

00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:55.579
in our own way. Our kids are 14 and 15, and so

00:22:55.579 --> 00:22:58.339
they're in these kind of early teenage years,

00:22:58.420 --> 00:23:01.559
and so they process things differently. My daughter,

00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:03.940
our daughter was a little bit more emotional

00:23:03.940 --> 00:23:08.799
than our son, but we just had to kind of let

00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:12.700
them handle it in their own way. And same with

00:23:12.700 --> 00:23:14.859
Derek and myself, you know, he talked about that

00:23:14.859 --> 00:23:19.180
first night and we were both, there was no way

00:23:19.180 --> 00:23:21.000
anybody was getting any sleep that night, you

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:23.500
know? Every time I would close my eyes, I would

00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:27.599
just see the water. So it's just allowing each

00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:32.059
other to go through the motions and go through

00:23:32.059 --> 00:23:35.359
it in our own way. And you kind of have to be

00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:40.470
supportive of that. Absolutely. And I mentioned

00:23:40.470 --> 00:23:44.930
this before, but you guys live on the lake. So

00:23:44.930 --> 00:23:49.130
I know you probably revisit this more than anyone

00:23:49.130 --> 00:23:52.069
else that was there. Maybe not everyone else

00:23:52.069 --> 00:23:54.190
that was there, but being on the water where

00:23:54.190 --> 00:23:56.690
that happened and having that constant reminder

00:23:56.690 --> 00:24:00.910
in front of you had to be difficult and continues

00:24:00.910 --> 00:24:04.029
to be difficult. But again, I just want to thank

00:24:04.029 --> 00:24:07.670
you both for coming on, opening up and sharing

00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:11.930
such a deeply personal perspective. Your voices

00:24:11.930 --> 00:24:16.210
remind us how important it is to be prepared

00:24:16.210 --> 00:24:19.089
as much as you can before stepping onto the water.

00:24:19.930 --> 00:24:21.450
So thank you again for your perspective. I'm

00:24:21.450 --> 00:24:23.630
sure there'll be some more follow -up questions

00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:26.390
so definitely please stay on if you can. But

00:24:26.390 --> 00:24:29.589
we're going to pause here and take a quick two

00:24:29.589 --> 00:24:32.029
-minute break and when we return we're going

00:24:32.029 --> 00:24:35.990
to hear from two more voices. uh... david mccullum

00:24:35.990 --> 00:24:38.710
who is a new york city firefighter who brings

00:24:38.710 --> 00:24:41.950
his professional expertise and emergency response

00:24:41.950 --> 00:24:45.650
uh... and also greg ryan who is an experienced

00:24:45.650 --> 00:24:48.730
diver uh... who's courageous actions during that

00:24:48.730 --> 00:24:51.730
incident shows what it really means to step up

00:24:51.730 --> 00:24:55.109
in a moment of crop up crisis so uh... stay with

00:24:55.109 --> 00:24:58.329
us will be right back at the break hi i'm james

00:24:58.329 --> 00:25:00.190
ballard artists first radio and i would like

00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:02.410
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00:25:02.410 --> 00:25:05.200
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00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:07.819
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00:25:07.819 --> 00:25:10.400
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00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:12.980
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00:26:45.349 --> 00:26:47.410
Welcome to another broadcast of Spiritual Concerns,

00:26:47.410 --> 00:26:49.509
the Deborah Ruffini Show on Artists First Radio

00:26:49.509 --> 00:26:52.269
Network. We're live from England on Saturdays

00:26:52.269 --> 00:26:54.890
and Sundays, 3 p .m. New York, 8 p .m. London.

00:26:55.450 --> 00:26:57.930
All past shows are podcasts. Find them at artistsfirst

00:26:57.930 --> 00:27:00.799
.com. I'll be your host where issues relating

00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.359
to spiritual matters of concern will be largely

00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:26.130
examined and discussed. Enjoy the show. Earlier,

00:27:26.250 --> 00:27:28.990
we heard from survivors, Derek and Davina Jenkins,

00:27:29.670 --> 00:27:33.430
who gave us a real honest and emotional and powerful

00:27:33.430 --> 00:27:36.349
perspective on what it means to live through

00:27:36.349 --> 00:27:39.089
a tragedy and what families can do to better

00:27:39.089 --> 00:27:41.450
prepare. We're going to continue this conversation

00:27:41.450 --> 00:27:44.630
now with two more voices who bring unique perspectives.

00:27:45.250 --> 00:27:47.869
David McCollum at New York City Fire Fire with

00:27:47.869 --> 00:27:50.450
a professional expertise in emergency response.

00:27:50.769 --> 00:27:52.769
And on the line, we also have Mr. Greg Ryan.

00:27:53.049 --> 00:27:55.910
He's an experienced diver whose courageous actions

00:27:55.910 --> 00:27:57.869
during the incident demonstrate what it means

00:27:57.869 --> 00:28:00.609
to step forward in a moment of crisis. Now, I'd

00:28:00.609 --> 00:28:02.589
like to start with Greg, if we could, please.

00:28:02.609 --> 00:28:05.470
Greg, welcome to the show. Thank you. Glad to

00:28:05.470 --> 00:28:10.089
be here. Yes, sir. So like I said, you bring

00:28:10.089 --> 00:28:14.009
a very unique perspective to this conversation,

00:28:14.289 --> 00:28:16.690
not only as a business owner and community member,

00:28:16.710 --> 00:28:19.869
of course, but also as someone with experience

00:28:19.869 --> 00:28:25.490
as a diver. That background gives you both familiarity

00:28:25.490 --> 00:28:29.589
with the water and the presence of mind to respond

00:28:29.589 --> 00:28:34.009
when most people might hesitate. Your role that

00:28:34.009 --> 00:28:36.730
day was significant and is why your voice is

00:28:36.730 --> 00:28:38.549
such an important part of tonight's discussion.

00:28:39.109 --> 00:28:42.210
So let me ask you, Greg, what gave you the clarity

00:28:42.210 --> 00:28:46.250
to act when so much chaos was unfolding at the

00:28:46.250 --> 00:28:50.640
time? So when it unfolded, someone told me a

00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:53.160
boat is sinking, one of the people on my boat.

00:28:53.660 --> 00:28:55.500
And so I turned around and put a light over there.

00:28:55.940 --> 00:28:57.859
And all I saw was the boat just, I mean, we're

00:28:57.859 --> 00:28:59.839
not talking a little boat. So folks, I have a

00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:02.140
perspective here. We're talking like, what is

00:29:02.140 --> 00:29:06.160
this, a 21 or 22 foot pontoon boat? And so this

00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:07.619
thing flipped straight up in the air and over

00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:09.220
to the right and just flipped right on over.

00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:12.559
And it happened literally in about five seconds.

00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:16.690
And so. We immediately, you know, I powered down,

00:29:16.769 --> 00:29:18.569
turned around, told everybody we're going to

00:29:18.569 --> 00:29:22.589
go back and help. And my first concern was, you

00:29:22.589 --> 00:29:24.230
know, there were so many boats out there. There

00:29:24.230 --> 00:29:27.309
was, you know, this is after a firework show

00:29:27.309 --> 00:29:31.769
and it was dark. It was about 949, 45 maybe,

00:29:31.910 --> 00:29:36.130
somewhere in that range. And I was wondering,

00:29:36.210 --> 00:29:38.650
I was like, I'm just going to get run over. I

00:29:38.650 --> 00:29:40.309
mean, they're in the water. You know, I didn't

00:29:40.309 --> 00:29:43.210
know where anybody was, but. My big concern then

00:29:43.210 --> 00:29:45.190
was just to keep people from running over the

00:29:45.190 --> 00:29:46.890
people who fell out of the boat. And I didn't

00:29:46.890 --> 00:29:49.329
know anybody, you know, that was in the water

00:29:49.329 --> 00:29:52.529
at the time. And so we came over there and we

00:29:52.529 --> 00:29:54.630
were flashing lights, honking a horn, you know,

00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:57.589
and everything. And then I think everybody was

00:29:57.589 --> 00:29:59.529
just, it's a confusing event when it happens.

00:29:59.569 --> 00:30:02.509
It just happens fast. The water's bouncing around.

00:30:02.650 --> 00:30:06.490
There's boats zipping by us. And so, you know,

00:30:06.490 --> 00:30:08.549
I just decided to get in and throw some life

00:30:08.549 --> 00:30:10.849
jackets out there with me. I made sure everybody

00:30:10.849 --> 00:30:14.589
had one because I didn't know. And it was about

00:30:14.589 --> 00:30:17.289
five or so minutes later before I realized and

00:30:17.289 --> 00:30:19.170
was told that there was still a little curl missing

00:30:19.170 --> 00:30:23.769
at the time. And so we started looking and a

00:30:23.769 --> 00:30:25.750
couple of people were looking around. I dove

00:30:25.750 --> 00:30:27.869
under the boat a few times just swimming under

00:30:27.869 --> 00:30:33.650
there. But I can't explain it how it's bouncy,

00:30:33.849 --> 00:30:37.970
it's dark, everything's moving around. It's very,

00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:41.990
very difficult. for anyone to even start looking

00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:45.630
for somebody when that happens. That's really

00:30:45.630 --> 00:30:50.990
how that happened there. But just to protect

00:30:50.990 --> 00:30:52.529
the people at that time, it was just to protect

00:30:52.529 --> 00:30:54.150
the people that I knew had fallen over. I didn't

00:30:54.150 --> 00:30:56.769
even know how many at that time. And I checked

00:30:56.769 --> 00:30:58.930
off. I asked everybody if they were OK. People

00:30:58.930 --> 00:31:01.130
were like, yes, we're OK. We have life jackets,

00:31:01.170 --> 00:31:03.990
et cetera. So at least I had extra life jackets

00:31:03.990 --> 00:31:06.650
on me in case somebody grabbed me. Because you

00:31:06.650 --> 00:31:08.690
know people panic, and you never know what's

00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:10.809
going to happen. And so I had enough to where

00:31:10.809 --> 00:31:12.849
I knew somebody couldn't grab me and sink me

00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:19.549
down at the water. But you can never be complacent

00:31:19.549 --> 00:31:23.029
on the water. That's all I can say. Goodness.

00:31:23.529 --> 00:31:26.809
Thank God that you were there to assist. I'm

00:31:26.809 --> 00:31:28.829
trying to picture it in my mind how everything

00:31:28.829 --> 00:31:32.279
happened so quickly. The boat itself, did it

00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.779
capsize fairly quickly, or did it take some time

00:31:34.779 --> 00:31:37.440
to flip over? Did you see any of that part happen?

00:31:38.019 --> 00:31:41.000
Less, yes. So I was told by someone on my boat

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.119
that a boat is sinking. I looked back, and all

00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:45.220
I saw was the nose of the boat under the water.

00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.720
I put a spotlight back there. Because we were

00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:51.039
only going six or seven miles an hour in front

00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:53.779
of them. I was the boat in front of them. And

00:31:53.779 --> 00:31:58.579
I was like, wow, OK. when it flipped in the air,

00:31:58.740 --> 00:32:00.440
I mean like a cork popping out of the water,

00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:04.019
it just flipped straight up, lengthwise, and

00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:06.339
rolled over to the right, well, to their right,

00:32:06.339 --> 00:32:10.119
to my left, and it was upside down. It's literally

00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:12.059
as fast as I just explained that, that's how

00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:16.119
fast it happened. And I always, you know, we've

00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:18.480
been out on the water at night before for fireworks

00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:20.640
shows and different things, and my biggest worry

00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:23.519
is somebody running into somebody. Or hitting

00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:25.299
somebody, you know, because you just can't see.

00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.420
And to have a boat flip, I've never in my life

00:32:29.420 --> 00:32:31.859
would ever think that a boat that size on a...

00:32:31.859 --> 00:32:33.980
Now, you'd feel I was in the ocean. Okay, fine.

00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:36.140
But, you know, with the giant waves, but this

00:32:36.140 --> 00:32:40.779
is a lake. And for that to happen, it took me

00:32:40.779 --> 00:32:43.920
by complete surprise. And it made me think for

00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:46.779
my future about how I handle myself out there

00:32:46.779 --> 00:32:50.559
on the lake at night going forward. You know,

00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:53.940
you just... It's hard to explain until it happens

00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:58.779
to you. until you see it. Like I said, thank

00:32:58.779 --> 00:33:01.940
God you were there. I just can't imagine. I'm

00:33:01.940 --> 00:33:03.859
trying to picture it in my mind. And like you

00:33:03.859 --> 00:33:06.500
said, with your experience, you've never even

00:33:06.500 --> 00:33:09.660
seen something like this with a boat. But have

00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:12.000
you been in a situation before where you've attempted

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.160
a rescue or been in any type of adjacent similar

00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:17.579
situation? Or was this your first time making

00:33:17.579 --> 00:33:21.369
that type of rescue attempt? For a boat it's

00:33:21.369 --> 00:33:24.170
my first time. When I was younger I was a lifeguard

00:33:24.170 --> 00:33:26.630
and I worked at a state park and you know people

00:33:26.630 --> 00:33:29.150
would jump in the water and not know how to swim

00:33:29.150 --> 00:33:31.490
and try to show off or they would, somebody would

00:33:31.490 --> 00:33:34.109
panic and grab somebody and I'd have to go you

00:33:34.109 --> 00:33:37.369
know do a little quick lifeguard save thing but

00:33:37.369 --> 00:33:38.910
you know we were always prepared you know we

00:33:38.910 --> 00:33:41.250
had our little float with us and you know we

00:33:41.250 --> 00:33:43.349
weren't that far from shore. Now this is what

00:33:43.349 --> 00:33:45.269
happened out here on Lake Kikoni is a completely

00:33:45.269 --> 00:33:46.650
different thing. We're out in the middle of the

00:33:46.650 --> 00:33:49.339
lake. I don't know how far from shore. Boats

00:33:49.339 --> 00:33:52.460
are zooming by us, you know, at 15, 20, 30 miles

00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:55.559
an hour, making a lot of waves and wakes, and

00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:58.519
nobody really can see anybody. You know, the

00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:01.000
big thing happens is what, is somebody going

00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:02.720
to hit somebody, is somebody going to run into

00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:04.400
it? I mean, I was even worried for ourselves,

00:34:04.460 --> 00:34:06.579
you know. People weren't really, they didn't

00:34:06.579 --> 00:34:09.280
even know what was going on because this boat's

00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:11.179
now upside down after this happened, and there's

00:34:11.179 --> 00:34:12.980
no lights on it because they're all underwater.

00:34:13.779 --> 00:34:15.539
And unless you're paying attention, you wouldn't

00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:17.599
have known. And then there's, you know, the people

00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:20.099
on the boat were in the water and we're turned

00:34:20.099 --> 00:34:21.619
around going the other way. The biggest thing

00:34:21.619 --> 00:34:23.880
we could do at that point was flashlights everywhere

00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:26.079
and honk horns and hope everybody starts to stop.

00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:27.880
And then people did, you know, and then it came

00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:30.019
to a halt out there. It's not like in a traffic

00:34:30.019 --> 00:34:32.059
jam, you know, on the freeway. Somebody stops

00:34:32.059 --> 00:34:33.960
in the middle of the freeway. It takes a few

00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:35.420
seconds for people to understand what's going

00:34:35.420 --> 00:34:39.210
on. Yeah, I'm glad you painted the picture of

00:34:39.210 --> 00:34:42.349
how dark it was out there that leads me to some

00:34:42.349 --> 00:34:45.769
of the equipment and gear from your experience

00:34:45.769 --> 00:34:49.909
What some of course? Talk about the various lights

00:34:49.909 --> 00:34:51.769
and things that if you're going to be boating

00:34:51.769 --> 00:34:55.230
at night Talk about the must -have that you need

00:34:55.230 --> 00:34:58.190
in terms of safety and just standard equipment

00:34:58.819 --> 00:35:02.119
Well, of course life jackets even for those who

00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:04.219
think they know how to swim at night I think

00:35:04.219 --> 00:35:06.599
at this point when we go back out on the lake

00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:08.579
and we we live out here We go out on the lake

00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:11.300
all the time not all the time at night But everyone

00:35:11.300 --> 00:35:13.579
will be wearing a life jacket in the future because

00:35:13.579 --> 00:35:17.860
the ability of a boat to flip over unannounced

00:35:17.860 --> 00:35:21.679
Unexpected is going to take everyone by surprise

00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:23.440
if it happened and you never know if you get

00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:25.619
hit in the head get knocked out you can't you

00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:27.619
know, try to swim, you just might be floundering

00:35:27.619 --> 00:35:29.099
or sitting there. If you don't have a life jacket,

00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:32.420
you might not make it. The other thing that I

00:35:32.420 --> 00:35:35.840
thought about after this event is like a water

00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.199
activated strobe light attached to everybody's

00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:41.139
life jacket. That alone probably could have changed

00:35:41.139 --> 00:35:43.539
the outcome of this whole thing. And it's too

00:35:43.539 --> 00:35:46.480
late to go what if, you know, what could have

00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:49.559
been, but that is just the unfortunate thing.

00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:53.650
But I know On my boat, everyone at night from

00:35:53.650 --> 00:35:55.590
now on will have a water -activated strobe on

00:35:55.590 --> 00:35:57.750
their body or on their life jacket, you know,

00:35:58.090 --> 00:36:00.789
and we'll make sure they work before we even

00:36:00.789 --> 00:36:03.670
go out. It's kind of like having smoke detectors

00:36:03.670 --> 00:36:07.469
in your house or having, you know, a fire extinguisher

00:36:07.469 --> 00:36:09.610
in your kitchen or, you know, any other kind

00:36:09.610 --> 00:36:11.510
of safety devices that, you know, people just

00:36:11.510 --> 00:36:12.989
kind of look at them and take them for granted,

00:36:13.289 --> 00:36:15.670
but until you need them, they could save your

00:36:15.670 --> 00:36:21.869
life. Absolutely. And I think also, You're just

00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:26.309
going over a bit of a safety protocol. You know,

00:36:26.409 --> 00:36:29.989
hey, if X, Y, Z happens, you do this, you do

00:36:29.989 --> 00:36:33.349
this. Maybe another person just calls for the

00:36:33.349 --> 00:36:35.050
authority. Would you think something like that

00:36:35.050 --> 00:36:36.769
would be useful? Is that something that you put

00:36:36.769 --> 00:36:39.329
into practice for yourself or started recently?

00:36:40.050 --> 00:36:42.369
Yes. You know, when it happened, my brain started

00:36:42.369 --> 00:36:44.269
thinking, what do I have to do? There's people

00:36:44.269 --> 00:36:46.789
in the water. I said, we're surrounded. Go help.

00:36:46.809 --> 00:36:48.489
I let everybody on my boat know what we were

00:36:48.489 --> 00:36:52.289
doing. you know then it was kind of a worry myself

00:36:52.289 --> 00:36:54.329
if somebody don't run into me because we're going

00:36:54.329 --> 00:36:56.230
the opposite direction of all these boats coming

00:36:56.230 --> 00:36:58.449
in and literally there's there might have been

00:36:58.449 --> 00:37:00.809
50 to 60 boats in the general vicinity that were

00:37:00.809 --> 00:37:03.369
traveling against the way we were going when

00:37:03.369 --> 00:37:06.929
we turned around and um it was a lot of boats

00:37:06.929 --> 00:37:09.110
i mean that whole event probably had a thousand

00:37:09.110 --> 00:37:12.349
or more boats out there um you just it's hard

00:37:12.349 --> 00:37:15.230
to explain it but it's a it's a beautiful event

00:37:15.230 --> 00:37:18.659
it's a big fireworks show on the lake everybody

00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:21.900
leaves at one time when they leave and it creates

00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:25.239
a lot of you know water wakes and there's a lot

00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:27.239
of danger from people driving around you can

00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:29.400
run into somebody and then you've got some folks

00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.559
that don't really think about what they're doing

00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:33.800
and they're going too fast and throwing away

00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:38.039
and that was part of the problem but regardless

00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:41.900
of that you have to be prepared and the preparedness

00:37:41.900 --> 00:37:45.269
is you know the water strobe making sure that

00:37:45.269 --> 00:37:47.130
any safety equipment you have works carrying

00:37:47.130 --> 00:37:49.369
extra life jackets more than maybe you just have

00:37:49.369 --> 00:37:52.309
the people on the boat. Because I'm glad we had

00:37:52.309 --> 00:37:55.170
extras. I took them with me when I jumped in

00:37:55.170 --> 00:37:57.789
the water to try to help, not knowing if they

00:37:57.789 --> 00:38:02.730
had them or if anyone, you know, would have grabbed

00:38:02.730 --> 00:38:05.670
me did I need extra buoyancy not to be pulled

00:38:05.670 --> 00:38:08.119
under the water, that kind of thing. I didn't

00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:11.219
even think about that aspect of it is, you know,

00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:13.960
someone panicking and then pulling you down trying

00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.659
to, you know, save themselves. I didn't even

00:38:16.659 --> 00:38:18.000
think about that part. So you definitely want

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.179
to make sure you have the proper type of vest

00:38:20.179 --> 00:38:23.400
on to prevent yourself from sinking. Right. And

00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:25.199
then the other thing, you know, it didn't, I

00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:27.099
had a strobe light on the boat that was, you

00:38:27.099 --> 00:38:29.920
know, plug in the power outlet kind of thing.

00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:33.539
It was very, very bright, but I could, I forgot

00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:36.710
to bring a flashlight with me. so a battery operated

00:38:36.710 --> 00:38:39.070
waterproof flashlight and I'll never do that

00:38:39.070 --> 00:38:41.949
again in the future because that helps because

00:38:41.949 --> 00:38:44.690
during the rescue part trying to find Tilly was

00:38:44.690 --> 00:38:46.409
you know getting under the boat and looking and

00:38:46.409 --> 00:38:49.489
you really can't see very far under the water

00:38:49.489 --> 00:38:51.650
even with the flashlight you can't see it all

00:38:51.650 --> 00:38:55.650
without it at night and having a flashlight just

00:38:55.650 --> 00:38:57.949
helps a little bit with you know if you're looking

00:38:57.949 --> 00:39:01.429
for somebody that you can't locate I don't think

00:39:01.429 --> 00:39:03.710
everybody has to have a 6 million candle power

00:39:03.710 --> 00:39:07.090
spotlight like I had, but I just have that because

00:39:07.090 --> 00:39:08.849
at night we'll come and bite to the dock. I want

00:39:08.849 --> 00:39:11.650
to know where I'm going, but having a decent

00:39:11.650 --> 00:39:15.369
flashlight, plenty of life jackets that are a

00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:18.070
couple of spares and one for everybody, and water

00:39:18.070 --> 00:39:22.690
activated strobes. I think that probably could

00:39:22.690 --> 00:39:24.570
have changed the outcome or could change somebody

00:39:24.570 --> 00:39:26.429
else's outcome in the future if they were to

00:39:26.429 --> 00:39:28.289
fall in the water or have an accident similar

00:39:28.289 --> 00:39:32.380
to this. Yes, because like you said pitch black

00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:35.079
is dark and if you have an incident like that

00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:37.699
You definitely don't want another incident to

00:39:37.699 --> 00:39:39.579
occur and you end up getting hit or run over

00:39:39.579 --> 00:39:42.519
by a boat So having some type of lighting on

00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:44.699
your your vest will definitely go a long way

00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:47.960
and making sure It's not a worse situation than

00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:51.320
it already is. So thank you for mentioning that

00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:54.860
I don't want to assign blame to anyone. That's

00:39:54.860 --> 00:39:57.449
not the reason for this question, but Just from

00:39:57.449 --> 00:40:00.030
your own perspective were you surprised at all

00:40:00.030 --> 00:40:02.690
by the level of response from the first responders

00:40:02.690 --> 00:40:07.809
that day? They were there rather quickly, but

00:40:07.809 --> 00:40:11.190
I think they were a little bit not sure about

00:40:11.190 --> 00:40:15.309
what to do That's all I could say they just they

00:40:15.309 --> 00:40:17.829
were there and it made you feel like okay. We're

00:40:17.829 --> 00:40:21.369
all safe and here's you know, the police and

00:40:21.369 --> 00:40:23.969
the sheriff and everybody out there, but Then

00:40:23.969 --> 00:40:26.110
you kind of expect them to take over and you

00:40:26.110 --> 00:40:29.809
know help but That's what I would have thought

00:40:29.809 --> 00:40:33.429
I'm just surprised I thought I'm not an avid

00:40:33.429 --> 00:40:35.969
voter like like Jason and maybe some of you that

00:40:35.969 --> 00:40:38.789
are on the line So I always thought that waters

00:40:38.789 --> 00:40:41.070
particularly when there's events like 4th of

00:40:41.070 --> 00:40:43.650
July and fireworks always thought that there

00:40:43.650 --> 00:40:46.389
were Some type of first responder or some type

00:40:46.389 --> 00:40:49.460
of enforcement there to patrol the waters So

00:40:49.460 --> 00:40:52.360
I was a bit surprised when I kind of heard the

00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:57.800
recount of things. But are waters like that usually

00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:01.780
uncontrolled? No, they have plenty of presence

00:41:01.780 --> 00:41:05.360
out there. That's not the thing. It's just the

00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:08.159
ability to actually render water assistance.

00:41:08.219 --> 00:41:09.920
I don't mean driving up there with a boat and

00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:12.920
throwing the float out for somebody, but if need

00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.280
be, can somebody actually get in the water and

00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:21.309
do something? It's hard to say. I mean, there

00:41:21.309 --> 00:41:23.670
really are no what ifs other than if there was

00:41:23.670 --> 00:41:26.929
some major blunder, but there wasn't. It was

00:41:26.929 --> 00:41:31.250
just things unfolded the way they unfolded. And,

00:41:31.250 --> 00:41:34.849
you know, I would think that if I had to say,

00:41:35.070 --> 00:41:38.309
hey, DNR or, you know, Buttonham County or Green

00:41:38.309 --> 00:41:40.369
County Sheriff, you know, what did you need to

00:41:40.369 --> 00:41:41.989
have on your boat? They need to have some goggles

00:41:41.989 --> 00:41:44.090
and flashlights and things like that, too, because

00:41:44.090 --> 00:41:46.849
if somebody were to fall in the water, how in

00:41:46.849 --> 00:41:49.559
the world would you find them? you know if they

00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:51.699
don't have on a strobe or they don't have any

00:41:51.699 --> 00:41:53.420
way to look for them well I mean we were out

00:41:53.420 --> 00:41:55.139
there shining lights all over the lake it's hard

00:41:55.139 --> 00:42:00.559
to see anything really so largely what I'm hearing

00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:02.460
is that when you go out in the water like this

00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:05.119
especially at night you you got to have your

00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:07.300
safety protocol together you have to have all

00:42:07.300 --> 00:42:10.800
of your equipment and safety things just to make

00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:13.019
sure that you're prepared for anything you can't

00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:15.460
prepare for every eventuality but you want to

00:42:15.449 --> 00:42:18.949
Give yourself a chance by having as much equipment

00:42:18.949 --> 00:42:22.289
and safety protocols and things as you can. But

00:42:22.289 --> 00:42:25.590
just thank God that you were there. I really

00:42:25.590 --> 00:42:27.530
appreciate you sharing your perspective on this

00:42:27.530 --> 00:42:31.349
and just your willingness to step in that day.

00:42:32.110 --> 00:42:35.590
It was a very difficult circumstance. But this

00:42:35.590 --> 00:42:38.469
is all just a powerful reminder of how courage

00:42:38.469 --> 00:42:41.869
can make a difference when you got seconds matter

00:42:41.869 --> 00:42:45.550
in a situation like this. So again, Greg, thank

00:42:45.550 --> 00:42:49.070
you. Yeah, one thing that listeners would probably

00:42:49.070 --> 00:42:51.230
need to understand is, I mean, we're not talking

00:42:51.230 --> 00:42:53.369
about a canoe or a kayak or anything or a little

00:42:53.369 --> 00:42:56.150
small jumbo or anything. These were big boats

00:42:56.150 --> 00:42:59.869
out there, you know, 20 plus feet long, and they

00:42:59.869 --> 00:43:02.090
can flip over. They can throw everybody in the

00:43:02.090 --> 00:43:05.489
water. And not, I mean, we weren't traveling,

00:43:05.489 --> 00:43:07.949
you know, 30, 40, 50 miles an hour. We were going

00:43:07.949 --> 00:43:10.369
six or seven miles an hour when this thing happened.

00:43:10.489 --> 00:43:13.809
And There were not massive waves. It was just

00:43:13.809 --> 00:43:16.530
wakes from other boats. And it can happen. And

00:43:16.530 --> 00:43:19.570
people need to not think that they're invincible

00:43:19.570 --> 00:43:23.590
and prepare. I mean, because if what I'm telling

00:43:23.590 --> 00:43:26.409
somebody who hears this saves one life, then

00:43:26.409 --> 00:43:30.030
I feel good, you know, or saves more than one

00:43:30.030 --> 00:43:33.690
life. But always keep in mind that something

00:43:33.690 --> 00:43:37.949
bad could happen and prepare for it. Absolutely.

00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:41.360
Well, great. Thank you so much again. I appreciate

00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:46.199
your perspective. I want to bring in Mr. David

00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:51.300
McCollum now. David is a first responder, firefighter,

00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:54.119
and like I said, a longtime friend of Jason's.

00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:56.539
And he's joining us not as a survivor of the

00:43:56.539 --> 00:43:58.920
incident, but he's going to be our subject matter

00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:02.260
expert for tonight. So his professional experience

00:44:02.260 --> 00:44:05.780
also gives him a unique perspective on emergency

00:44:05.780 --> 00:44:09.559
response, and how to prepare, how to stay calm,

00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:12.840
and how to act when, like I said, seconds matter

00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.639
in instances like this. So David, welcome to

00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:17.800
the show. It's a privilege to have you on tonight.

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:23.340
Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Well, listen,

00:44:24.099 --> 00:44:27.000
like I said, you are a first responder, a firefighter.

00:44:27.019 --> 00:44:32.739
I'm sure you face all types of emergencies. What

00:44:32.739 --> 00:44:36.619
parallels do you see in terms of fire emergencies

00:44:36.619 --> 00:44:39.500
versus water emergencies? Can you speak to that

00:44:39.500 --> 00:44:44.440
for us? Well, it sounds like it's pretty much

00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:47.599
the same thing, just a different, or I guess

00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.119
a different type of evil depending on the situation.

00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:54.099
So, like everyone's saying here, you need your

00:44:54.099 --> 00:44:58.320
equipment, you need... Like everyone else is

00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.780
saying here you're comfortable when you think

00:44:59.780 --> 00:45:01.980
somebody else comes but usually you need to have

00:45:01.980 --> 00:45:04.860
your own stuff just in case Help doesn't come

00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:09.420
so Like he said smoke detectors fire extinguishes

00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:12.699
things of that nature. That's in my department

00:45:12.699 --> 00:45:15.300
His department is like you said life jackets

00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:18.760
and like to know that other stuff. I Don't know

00:45:18.760 --> 00:45:24.699
So and being calm in the situation, you're not

00:45:24.699 --> 00:45:27.190
used to that situation And even the person who

00:45:27.190 --> 00:45:29.989
is responding was probably not used to that situation.

00:45:30.110 --> 00:45:31.590
They could have just got there, or they could

00:45:31.590 --> 00:45:34.969
have different type of tactics, procedures for

00:45:34.969 --> 00:45:37.630
it. Which is what sounds like happened here,

00:45:37.789 --> 00:45:41.210
because it doesn't sound like there was a mustang,

00:45:41.349 --> 00:45:45.030
but I wasn't there, but you felt safe, and then

00:45:45.030 --> 00:45:46.349
you're the one who'll have to jump in the water

00:45:46.349 --> 00:45:48.710
and get somebody. I don't know that percentage,

00:45:49.650 --> 00:45:53.710
so I know that for most first responders, life

00:45:53.710 --> 00:45:58.239
hazardous don't really have it. Right, and you

00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.380
know, we've mentioned a couple of times during

00:46:01.380 --> 00:46:03.679
this program, you know, for everyone to stay

00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:07.199
calm in an emergency. That's easy to say on a

00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.420
radio show or in casual conversation, but I can

00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:11.920
just imagine with things happening so quickly.

00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:15.000
It's a panic. You have children on the boat.

00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:19.219
It's an extreme situation. It's dark. I don't

00:46:19.219 --> 00:46:21.079
think the first thing you're going to be thinking

00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:25.539
is, okay, everybody stay calm, you know. How

00:46:25.539 --> 00:46:28.380
do you stay calm? I guess calm is relative in

00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:32.840
terms of just making sure you act in a way that's

00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:35.659
not going to make the situation worse. But from

00:46:35.659 --> 00:46:38.460
your perspective, how can you stay calm when

00:46:38.460 --> 00:46:40.780
there's a fire or another extreme emergency?

00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:46.400
These things happen. They're actually very much

00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:52.539
regular. In this particular situation, from what

00:46:52.539 --> 00:46:54.079
I'm hearing, from what people are saying, it

00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:56.639
sounds like everybody did stay calm. It sounds

00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:58.780
like everybody did their best to just try and

00:46:58.780 --> 00:47:01.659
figure out how not to make things worse, how

00:47:01.659 --> 00:47:04.320
to get themselves out. And they did for the most

00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:11.460
part. It's not something that you can teach comes

00:47:11.460 --> 00:47:13.380
with repetition, it comes with feeling. Some

00:47:13.380 --> 00:47:16.300
people are just like that. You know, they can

00:47:16.300 --> 00:47:19.199
calm down and see a situation. and trying to

00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.000
figure out what they're gonna do about it. You

00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:22.920
know, like he said, first thing he did is thinking,

00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:25.400
get his family out. First thing he did was thinking,

00:47:25.460 --> 00:47:28.679
let me jump in and see what I can do. It's up

00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:31.340
to the person. Collectively, people usually,

00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:33.679
there's a lot of chaos. But somebody in that

00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.260
group is gonna stop and actually see what's going

00:47:36.260 --> 00:47:40.460
on and try and figure it out. Right. And you

00:47:40.460 --> 00:47:42.960
brought up, Derek, I'm so glad you were on the

00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:46.869
call that day because he... He was having a rough

00:47:46.869 --> 00:47:49.849
time that day. I could tell, you know, he was

00:47:49.849 --> 00:47:53.690
very heavy on him and the guilt in terms of if

00:47:53.690 --> 00:47:55.929
there's anything more that he could have done

00:47:55.929 --> 00:47:59.510
to save little Tilly. So I'm definitely glad

00:47:59.510 --> 00:48:01.730
that you gave him that perspective of, no, you

00:48:01.730 --> 00:48:03.889
did what you were supposed to do is to help your

00:48:03.889 --> 00:48:05.869
household and you made sure that all of your

00:48:05.869 --> 00:48:08.869
family members were present and accounted for

00:48:08.869 --> 00:48:12.670
and safe. And I think just sharing that perspective

00:48:12.670 --> 00:48:16.489
from someone who was a first responder, That

00:48:16.489 --> 00:48:20.449
speaks volumes in terms of helping you to reframe

00:48:20.449 --> 00:48:24.369
the situation and give you a little bit more

00:48:24.369 --> 00:48:27.170
peace, maybe not full peace, because again, a

00:48:27.170 --> 00:48:30.150
life was lost, but at least some peace in moving

00:48:30.150 --> 00:48:34.170
forward. So thank you for being on the line and

00:48:34.170 --> 00:48:37.210
helping him with some tools that can get him

00:48:37.210 --> 00:48:42.969
through that moment emotionally. No problem,

00:48:43.050 --> 00:48:50.619
I guess. So listen, I know a lot of people assume

00:48:50.619 --> 00:48:52.579
that this type of stuff won't happen to them.

00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:57.179
Say that you are a bystander. You're someone

00:48:57.179 --> 00:49:00.679
who is watching something unfold. You want to

00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:05.440
help. What can you tell bystanders who want to

00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:08.659
maybe play an active role to help the situation,

00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:10.579
but may not have the training, may not have the

00:49:10.579 --> 00:49:13.619
experience. Is there a protocol for civilians

00:49:13.619 --> 00:49:16.860
who are seeing something to get involved in a

00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:21.179
way that it's not going to make them get in a

00:49:21.179 --> 00:49:23.940
situation themselves or maybe worse in the situation?

00:49:24.500 --> 00:49:29.059
What's your take on that? You want to try not

00:49:29.059 --> 00:49:33.780
to become another life hazard? Yes. So, you want

00:49:33.780 --> 00:49:36.460
to try not to become another burden on a very,

00:49:36.460 --> 00:49:39.719
very bad situation. All right? If you don't have

00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:41.880
the training, if you know that you're going to

00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:44.260
jump in and just be another person that they

00:49:44.260 --> 00:49:47.039
have to save, then you need to be maybe looking

00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:49.199
around for tools. Like he said, maybe do you

00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:51.119
have a light? Does somebody have a rope? Maybe

00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:53.539
doing things like that to try and help a situation.

00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:57.219
But you don't want to be another situation. That's

00:49:57.219 --> 00:49:59.000
two or three things that somebody else has to

00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:03.360
do something about. Right. That's a good one.

00:50:03.500 --> 00:50:06.119
Like you said, you don't want to be an additional

00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:10.019
person in need of rescuing. But I know that there's

00:50:10.019 --> 00:50:12.719
a lot of, you know, well -meaning people that

00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:16.039
want to be involved, want to do something, have

00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:17.900
some type of way they feel like they contributed

00:50:17.900 --> 00:50:21.360
towards making the situation better. But just

00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:24.079
good old -fashioned common sense. You know, if

00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:26.340
you know you can't swim, don't get out and try

00:50:26.340 --> 00:50:30.119
to save someone from drowning. But I appreciate

00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:38.090
this. That's what we have come to know. I want

00:50:38.090 --> 00:50:40.110
to cover all bases because there are people that

00:50:40.110 --> 00:50:42.349
are listening that may not have to deal with

00:50:42.349 --> 00:50:45.809
this directly, but they may be adjacent to the

00:50:45.809 --> 00:50:48.610
situation and don't want to just be a bystander

00:50:48.610 --> 00:50:51.480
that looks and points. But, you know, sometimes

00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:54.239
that's all you can do. Or maybe, you know, you

00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:56.639
can just make sure you call 911 and let, you

00:50:56.639 --> 00:50:59.059
know, authorities know that there's an incident

00:50:59.059 --> 00:51:01.820
if you're not able to directly help someone.

00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:04.559
But, yeah, just good old -fashioned common sense.

00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:08.519
I'll ask one more question, and then we'll get

00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:12.280
to the group. If you could design a simple safety

00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:14.840
drill for situations like this or families to

00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:17.599
practice before they go out in the water, or

00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:22.079
not even water, because you're a fireman, what

00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:24.420
type of safety drill can you have in the home

00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:27.760
to prevent an incident? Should there be a fire?

00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:30.119
Should there be some type of accident, explosion,

00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:34.320
what have you? You try and learn things that

00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:38.659
helps once the situation starts. So one thing

00:51:38.659 --> 00:51:41.159
I learned that almost nobody knows I definitely

00:51:41.159 --> 00:51:44.119
didn't know is that there's a fire in your house

00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:47.079
most people think open the doors and run out

00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:49.500
you know when you're in the mix of it jump out

00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:52.519
the window stuff like that what people know is

00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:56.219
something simple as just closing the door like

00:51:56.219 --> 00:51:58.440
all you have like say all your bedrooms are upstairs

00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:00.219
and stuff like that and everybody leaves all

00:52:00.219 --> 00:52:03.659
their doors open it just makes a flow path there's

00:52:03.659 --> 00:52:05.880
certain things that people don't know so like

00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:08.059
in this case certain things that people don't

00:52:08.059 --> 00:52:09.739
know. Everybody should have one of life jackets.

00:52:09.940 --> 00:52:12.619
Everybody needs mics. Everybody do need... These

00:52:12.619 --> 00:52:14.639
are things that I wouldn't know. I don't do the

00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:18.280
water. You know? So, it's just the simple things.

00:52:18.699 --> 00:52:20.460
It's the only thing that you can do. Because

00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:23.000
what's stuff at the fair, hopefully you have

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:25.199
the simple things and you give yourself a little

00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:27.619
bit more time to think. And maybe you can figure

00:52:27.619 --> 00:52:31.760
something out. Maybe you can save a life. Absolutely.

00:52:32.230 --> 00:52:34.530
Well, thank you, David. I really appreciate you

00:52:34.530 --> 00:52:36.329
coming to this discussion. Like I said, you brought

00:52:36.329 --> 00:52:39.730
a different lens with the particular expertise

00:52:39.730 --> 00:52:42.289
that you have. So I'm glad that you were able

00:52:42.289 --> 00:52:45.309
to dial in and just give us some sage advice

00:52:45.309 --> 00:52:48.489
and good practices for emergency situations.

00:52:49.530 --> 00:52:51.969
I'm going to open this question up to the group.

00:52:52.010 --> 00:52:56.050
And maybe we can hear from Jason, since he went

00:52:56.050 --> 00:52:57.630
first. It's been a while since we heard from

00:52:57.630 --> 00:53:01.989
him. And this is for everyone that was involved

00:53:01.989 --> 00:53:04.869
with the event. I know I asked Derek and Davina

00:53:04.869 --> 00:53:07.050
this, but, you know, after you all have lived

00:53:07.050 --> 00:53:10.050
through something traumatic like this, are any

00:53:10.050 --> 00:53:14.050
of you dealing with any guilt or replaying the

00:53:14.050 --> 00:53:16.710
what ifs? Is this still a thing for you all now,

00:53:16.710 --> 00:53:19.230
or is it, you know, since it's been two months,

00:53:19.329 --> 00:53:21.869
is it getting a little bit easier? Anybody want

00:53:21.869 --> 00:53:29.719
to speak to that, Jason? Hey, so... So I actually

00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:33.019
believe that this is something that will remain

00:53:33.019 --> 00:53:35.659
with me forever, and I'm okay with that. I'm

00:53:35.659 --> 00:53:40.139
literally okay with that. What I recognize about

00:53:40.139 --> 00:53:46.579
myself is that on that particular day, July 4th,

00:53:46.579 --> 00:53:51.239
2025, I didn't possess a set of skills that were

00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:57.119
needed in that situation. That's an opportunity

00:53:57.119 --> 00:53:59.639
for me to get better and grow. For the people

00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:01.579
that know me, the people that are on this line,

00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:04.659
everybody knows that I'm very much a family person.

00:54:05.940 --> 00:54:08.400
Family man, I'm very much a helper. I'm very

00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:11.039
much a protector. I'm very much all these things

00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:14.360
that like have to do with like family and people

00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:19.559
and community. But I did realize there were some

00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:22.500
skills that I did not possess that day that would,

00:54:23.860 --> 00:54:26.320
I'm not gonna say would. Because the universe

00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:28.559
is the universe and sometimes the universe requires

00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:30.300
things to happen in a certain way and there's

00:54:30.300 --> 00:54:36.159
nothing you can do about it however I Will think

00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:39.139
about what skills I did not possess that did

00:54:39.139 --> 00:54:43.780
not allow me to I'm gonna say potentially Alter

00:54:43.780 --> 00:54:46.900
the outcome. I don't know if we could I don't

00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:49.360
think anybody here really could have but I sure

00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:51.400
wish that I had a different set of skills Right.

00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:55.090
I hear people like Greg talk I'd like to become

00:54:55.090 --> 00:54:58.630
a little more like that. If I'm offshore fishing

00:54:58.630 --> 00:55:01.230
and somebody finds themselves in a situation

00:55:01.230 --> 00:55:04.469
that's very sticky, hopefully I can help respond.

00:55:06.150 --> 00:55:09.610
But not only just that, so in my day job, I say

00:55:09.610 --> 00:55:11.650
this is not my day job, having conversations

00:55:11.650 --> 00:55:14.550
like this is very difficult, it's nerve wracking,

00:55:14.690 --> 00:55:17.309
it makes me anxious, and it probably does for

00:55:17.309 --> 00:55:22.369
just about everybody else on this line. I heard

00:55:22.369 --> 00:55:25.389
a theme of, you know, sort of, you know, it's

00:55:25.389 --> 00:55:27.489
a chaotic, it's an emergency situation. Things

00:55:27.489 --> 00:55:31.949
are happening very fast. What's the plan? I did

00:55:31.949 --> 00:55:34.030
recognize that there's a pitfall there that,

00:55:34.030 --> 00:55:36.570
you know, when emergency responders show up,

00:55:36.829 --> 00:55:39.730
one would think that that is the coordination,

00:55:40.030 --> 00:55:42.369
right? They have shown up, right? That's the

00:55:42.369 --> 00:55:44.730
cavalry. They're flashing lights. They told you,

00:55:44.989 --> 00:55:49.289
I am here. For me, that's gonna be a takeaway.

00:55:49.739 --> 00:55:52.539
Right and I would encourage audience members

00:55:52.539 --> 00:55:55.219
that they're here. They listen to this, but that's

00:55:55.219 --> 00:55:58.599
also a takeaway. That's a bit of a pitfall Greg

00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:02.019
pointed out that Mercy responders that day did

00:56:02.019 --> 00:56:05.320
not necessarily respond to a Water event. They

00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:10.300
did not get in the water. That's a takeaway Could

00:56:10.300 --> 00:56:16.199
I could I have Helped coordinate right in my

00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:18.420
day job. I feel like I coordinate a bunch of

00:56:18.420 --> 00:56:23.179
stuff Right, so is there a way to say, you know,

00:56:23.380 --> 00:56:26.219
hey, we've done this already don't do that again

00:56:26.219 --> 00:56:30.099
right The emergency has changed right people

00:56:30.099 --> 00:56:33.099
are now out of water onto boats. There's a secondary

00:56:33.099 --> 00:56:36.500
emergency Identify that communicate that say

00:56:36.500 --> 00:56:40.139
that Who does what right in my day job? I do

00:56:40.139 --> 00:56:43.840
those things But in that situation, I mean I

00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:45.639
didn't possess those skills. I didn't even possess

00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:48.579
the clarity to understand what was really happening,

00:56:48.579 --> 00:56:51.420
and I was really sort of happy to see that the

00:56:51.420 --> 00:56:54.340
professionals had shown up, but it's a pitfall.

00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:58.440
We didn't get the response that I think we really

00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:01.900
deserve. The people that were there going through

00:57:01.900 --> 00:57:08.079
it deserve. So, you know, guilt, yes, I think

00:57:08.079 --> 00:57:12.199
there would be a level of that. Not having prepared

00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:17.630
enough, I mean, things will happen. How prepared

00:57:17.630 --> 00:57:20.710
can you be? What should you have done prior to

00:57:20.710 --> 00:57:23.070
this? I think I'll always rethink those things.

00:57:23.730 --> 00:57:25.230
But again, like I said at the beginning of the

00:57:25.230 --> 00:57:27.769
show, part of the reason we're having this conversation

00:57:27.769 --> 00:57:31.090
is that there needs to be a positive association

00:57:31.090 --> 00:57:35.590
with a negative event. We all need to become

00:57:35.590 --> 00:57:37.750
sort of better at the end of this. And somebody

00:57:37.750 --> 00:57:40.449
listening to this show now or in the future,

00:57:40.550 --> 00:57:43.110
because I know these things are archived, now

00:57:43.110 --> 00:57:46.420
or in the future. should get something from this

00:57:46.420 --> 00:57:50.519
conversation that will help them. And I think

00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:52.320
the universe will understand that there's a group

00:57:52.320 --> 00:58:00.860
of people, even though we suffered a loss, we

00:58:00.860 --> 00:58:03.679
also try to share a message at the end of that.

00:58:03.900 --> 00:58:07.599
So yes, we will feel a certain way from now into

00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:11.019
probably perpetuity until we take our last breath.

00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:16.619
We will try and we will always encourage people

00:58:16.619 --> 00:58:18.340
to do a little bit better and that's how I feel

00:58:18.340 --> 00:58:23.219
about it You know, I've never been through anything

00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:26.280
like what you all have experienced I pray I never

00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:30.760
have to But I'll tell you just just even as the

00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:33.840
host is it's been difficult to just you know

00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:36.619
Make it a regular show and just you know do my

00:58:36.619 --> 00:58:40.860
thing I've been touched by this story or since

00:58:40.860 --> 00:58:44.659
you you brought it to me I can imagine being

00:58:44.659 --> 00:58:48.019
there witnessing it, reliving it every day, going

00:58:48.019 --> 00:58:50.519
through the mental and emotional what ifs and

00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:53.679
had I done this or if we did that, it has to

00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:58.659
be debilitating at times. And to then come on

00:58:58.659 --> 00:59:02.659
the show and relive it, talk about it, with of

00:59:02.659 --> 00:59:06.400
course the intention to help other people navigate

00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:08.960
a similar situation. So I'm glad that we're having

00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:14.940
this conversation, but I do appreciate how difficult

00:59:14.940 --> 00:59:19.500
this may be to relive all of that. So I definitely

00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:22.920
feel like this conversation has been both helpful

00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:27.099
and healing for me, for each one of you, and

00:59:27.099 --> 00:59:29.639
I definitely believe our listeners as well. I

00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:30.920
mean, I don't know how you can listen to this

00:59:30.920 --> 00:59:33.139
show and not, if you're going on the water, make

00:59:33.139 --> 00:59:35.119
sure you have your equipment, make sure it has

00:59:35.119 --> 00:59:37.539
strobe lights on it, make sure you just do a

00:59:37.539 --> 00:59:39.840
quick cursory run through, hey, if this happens,

00:59:39.940 --> 00:59:43.309
you do this, you do that. assess what you have

00:59:43.309 --> 00:59:45.590
on the boat. If there's gonna be nighttime, make

00:59:45.590 --> 00:59:48.610
sure you got proper lighting. You know how dark

00:59:48.610 --> 00:59:50.849
it can get on the water. You know, so just, I

00:59:50.849 --> 00:59:54.369
think just conversation will save a life. You

00:59:54.369 --> 00:59:57.309
know, this will be played in perpetuity. People

00:59:57.309 --> 00:59:59.869
are gonna replay this and share it. And so they'll

00:59:59.869 --> 01:00:01.349
listen to these stories and they'll say, you

01:00:01.349 --> 01:00:04.090
know what? I listened to this show. We need to

01:00:04.090 --> 01:00:06.630
make sure we do X, Y, and Z. So you guys have

01:00:06.630 --> 01:00:10.449
already saved lives. So I think we've done a

01:00:10.449 --> 01:00:15.349
great job of honoring the family, just the story

01:00:15.349 --> 01:00:18.710
of this. So like I say, I appreciate all of you

01:00:18.710 --> 01:00:21.610
guys being here. I want to open the floor up

01:00:21.610 --> 01:00:26.530
to Derek and Davina, Greg, David. Do any of you

01:00:26.530 --> 01:00:29.210
have any last words or anything else that you

01:00:29.210 --> 01:00:33.909
wanted to share with the listeners? I do actually.

01:00:35.230 --> 01:00:39.789
Go ahead. So first, I know the question you asked

01:00:39.789 --> 01:00:42.750
me, what would be my number one thing to tell

01:00:42.750 --> 01:00:44.510
people, and I talked about the life jackets.

01:00:47.389 --> 01:00:55.750
Jason saved all of us that night. Because only

01:00:55.750 --> 01:00:59.090
one of us out of the 12 people on that boat,

01:00:59.409 --> 01:01:01.929
well, except for the child, she was also wearing

01:01:01.929 --> 01:01:05.480
a life jacket the entire time. My sister was

01:01:05.480 --> 01:01:07.599
the only other person wearing a life jacket when

01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:12.659
we took off to go out. But on the way back, when

01:01:12.659 --> 01:01:15.579
it was dark and all of the boats were around

01:01:15.579 --> 01:01:20.500
us, Jason said everybody needs to put on a life

01:01:20.500 --> 01:01:26.519
jacket for the ride back. And we did. And if

01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:31.699
that had not happened, we would have had a lot

01:01:31.699 --> 01:01:36.739
more casualties that day. So I really, really

01:01:36.739 --> 01:01:42.659
want to harp on the life jacket. And it's not

01:01:42.659 --> 01:01:45.480
just, and the point I'm trying to make is we

01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:48.900
had it, but we didn't have it on. You know, that

01:01:48.900 --> 01:01:51.480
boat could have flipped in the daytime when we

01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:56.219
were going out and we didn't have them on. So

01:01:56.219 --> 01:01:59.059
you can have your life jacket, but you also need

01:01:59.059 --> 01:02:02.119
to be wearing it. And it needs to be buckled

01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:09.119
and properly fitted on you, even talking about

01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:12.619
with children. And we had teenagers out there

01:02:12.619 --> 01:02:15.760
on the boat that initially did not want to put

01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:18.579
the life jackets on, but as parents and as adults,

01:02:18.619 --> 01:02:22.599
we made them. And it's the same that we've taken

01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:26.579
our friends out on that water all summer, last

01:02:26.579 --> 01:02:31.670
summer as well. You know, just making sure that

01:02:31.670 --> 01:02:34.110
people are wearing their life jackets when they're

01:02:34.110 --> 01:02:38.389
out on the water, near a dock, just even in a

01:02:38.389 --> 01:02:40.989
pool if you don't know how to slam, put on a

01:02:40.989 --> 01:02:44.050
life jacket. Because you just never know. You

01:02:44.050 --> 01:02:46.909
know, we talk about how quickly that boat flipped

01:02:46.909 --> 01:02:51.530
over. It was literally within the matter of seconds.

01:02:52.469 --> 01:02:58.860
And I, going into the water, I was Calm, I would

01:02:58.860 --> 01:03:01.920
say going into the water because I knew I had

01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:05.440
my life jacket on and I knew that I would come

01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:12.239
back up. And I was kind of reassured in that

01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:14.659
moment, but had I not been wearing that, you

01:03:14.659 --> 01:03:23.239
know, I, I wouldn't be here. So, so it's a bear

01:03:23.239 --> 01:03:26.659
me a boy. Go ahead, Jason. Go ahead. Sorry, Audrey.

01:03:26.820 --> 01:03:30.280
So. And I absolutely appreciate that. So, you

01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:33.619
know this So there's there's there's one more

01:03:33.619 --> 01:03:36.559
maybe point here, right and and I appreciate

01:03:36.559 --> 01:03:41.059
what the mean I just said You know, so gut feelings

01:03:41.059 --> 01:03:46.219
right gut the gut You know, we talk about trusting

01:03:46.219 --> 01:03:48.719
our gut a lot of times. Sometimes we suppress

01:03:48.719 --> 01:03:52.460
it. Sometimes we don't There were a series of

01:03:52.460 --> 01:03:54.599
things what she just described there. I would

01:03:54.599 --> 01:03:59.380
say might be the The thing that was most, that

01:03:59.380 --> 01:04:02.079
was closest to the event, right, it was the last

01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:04.699
major thing that we heard, last major decision

01:04:04.699 --> 01:04:07.480
that we heard, put on your jackets, it's dark,

01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:09.300
it's late at night, there are a bunch of boats

01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:11.960
out here, and I think that's what sort of, if

01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:14.039
we want to say mitigated, even though everybody

01:04:14.039 --> 01:04:16.679
might not feel like this was mitigated, but in

01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:19.699
some ways, it was mitigated, the tragedy could

01:04:19.699 --> 01:04:23.460
have been worse. You know, early in the day,

01:04:23.579 --> 01:04:25.630
there were also some decisions, right? those

01:04:25.630 --> 01:04:28.349
jackets were not on the boat at the beginning,

01:04:28.530 --> 01:04:32.289
right? So someone realized, hey, we left jackets.

01:04:34.349 --> 01:04:37.269
Someone else, Derek, so I think maybe it was

01:04:37.269 --> 01:04:39.769
Alice actually, Davina herself, had to say, hey,

01:04:39.889 --> 01:04:43.730
the jackets aren't here, okay? So what I'm trying

01:04:43.730 --> 01:04:46.809
to illustrate is that with these things, there

01:04:46.809 --> 01:04:50.449
are a series of events, right? And anything within

01:04:50.449 --> 01:04:54.829
that chain, Could break the series of events.

01:04:55.010 --> 01:04:57.190
So what I guess what we're saying to listeners

01:04:57.190 --> 01:05:03.889
are from the very beginning Someone sees, you

01:05:03.889 --> 01:05:06.170
know, they say see something say something right

01:05:06.170 --> 01:05:09.150
It might be applicable here a different scenario,

01:05:09.150 --> 01:05:11.590
but it is applicable, right? Hey, we actually

01:05:11.590 --> 01:05:14.289
don't have that. I know we go out all the time

01:05:14.289 --> 01:05:18.489
but this time Someone has realized we don't have

01:05:18.489 --> 01:05:21.840
everything we need right now Someone else has

01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:25.059
to take that information and they need to walk

01:05:25.059 --> 01:05:29.699
with it, right? Yes, I heard you. Please don't

01:05:29.699 --> 01:05:33.159
get angry at your spouse, at your kid, at you,

01:05:33.300 --> 01:05:35.579
right? Oh my goodness, this is very inconvenient.

01:05:35.719 --> 01:05:38.860
I need to now go do something, right? So, you

01:05:38.860 --> 01:05:41.039
know, then we had, I want to say it might have

01:05:41.039 --> 01:05:44.960
been Derek who went, yes it was, who went back

01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:48.480
to the house and picked up the jackets. and brought

01:05:48.480 --> 01:05:50.440
it to the boat, right? So what I'm trying to

01:05:50.440 --> 01:05:54.719
just illustrate is that, yes, each of these things

01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:57.400
are important for everybody. You see something,

01:05:57.440 --> 01:05:59.500
you say something, you have a gut feeling about

01:05:59.500 --> 01:06:01.699
something. Maybe it was just to not even go out

01:06:01.699 --> 01:06:03.199
that night, right? Because there are too many

01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:05.599
boats. There are people that are like that. You

01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:11.239
may not. So any of those things, each of those

01:06:11.239 --> 01:06:14.460
things, I guess I should say, are important.

01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:18.199
You need to first have them. you need to do something

01:06:18.199 --> 01:06:23.780
with them once you have them and Maybe at the

01:06:23.780 --> 01:06:26.360
end of that if the universe doesn't have its

01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:31.340
way You'll come home, but you know we all we

01:06:31.340 --> 01:06:33.559
all subscribe to higher power, and I do respect

01:06:33.559 --> 01:06:39.119
that And so anything that we do It could work

01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:43.099
out in our favor Sometimes it does not but I

01:06:43.099 --> 01:06:44.860
think we can still do all of the things that

01:06:44.860 --> 01:06:48.449
we can do between point A and point B to ensure

01:06:48.449 --> 01:06:50.250
that, you know, we come home, we bring our families

01:06:50.250 --> 01:06:59.050
home and live, tell the story another day. Very

01:06:59.050 --> 01:07:01.769
well said. Does anyone else want to piggyback

01:07:01.769 --> 01:07:08.030
on what Jason said? Greg, Derek, David? You know,

01:07:08.190 --> 01:07:11.349
never. I guess the only thing I could say, I've

01:07:11.349 --> 01:07:13.570
been out on the water a lot and I know when I

01:07:13.570 --> 01:07:15.250
have the young children out there and they're

01:07:15.250 --> 01:07:17.510
10, 11 years old, do I have to wear the light

01:07:17.510 --> 01:07:20.070
jacket? Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Yes. Even in

01:07:20.070 --> 01:07:22.550
the day, because I don't, well, I don't want

01:07:22.550 --> 01:07:24.829
to get a ticket, but I also fear, you know, you

01:07:24.829 --> 01:07:26.730
could hit something, the foot of the boat could

01:07:26.730 --> 01:07:29.170
hit it while you're traveling, I don't know,

01:07:29.570 --> 01:07:32.510
not even fast, 10 miles an hour. The boat jolts.

01:07:32.710 --> 01:07:34.349
They're standing up. They fall off the front.

01:07:34.619 --> 01:07:36.739
They get hurt, they get sucked under the boat

01:07:36.739 --> 01:07:38.460
or whatever. But if they don't have a life jacket,

01:07:39.659 --> 01:07:42.400
who knows what would happen. It's just not worth

01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:44.920
it. Life jackets cost $15, $20, a little strobe

01:07:44.920 --> 01:07:47.139
lights about the same price. Never put a price

01:07:47.139 --> 01:07:49.860
on that kind of stuff. Just get the equipment.

01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:53.179
Always have it out there. If you've got 12 people

01:07:53.179 --> 01:07:55.539
on your boat, have 12 life jackets. Have a few

01:07:55.539 --> 01:07:58.119
extras for those. You might need one for somebody

01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:02.900
else. Just have it. Thank you, Greg. Derek, I

01:08:02.900 --> 01:08:04.960
thought I heard you trying to chime in as well.

01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:08.900
Yeah. The only thing that I'll, I think my takeaway

01:08:08.900 --> 01:08:13.219
for me, you asked Jason, like the question about

01:08:13.219 --> 01:08:17.140
change, like my risk tolerance in life going

01:08:17.140 --> 01:08:22.739
forward is, is a little lower. Um, uh, we all

01:08:22.739 --> 01:08:26.500
talking about the life jackets, you know, I think

01:08:26.500 --> 01:08:32.340
the reality is I didn't have one on when the

01:08:32.340 --> 01:08:36.619
boat flipped. And so you've mentioned, no, you

01:08:36.619 --> 01:08:39.899
think you're invincible. You think nothing's

01:08:39.899 --> 01:08:44.800
gonna happen. Yes, and I'm grateful Jason made

01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:48.640
everyone put a jacket on. I didn't have one on

01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:52.420
because we were one short. But even if it was

01:08:52.420 --> 01:08:56.270
there. Knowing me, I probably wouldn't have put

01:08:56.270 --> 01:08:58.710
it on anyway, just because of my mindset and

01:08:58.710 --> 01:09:01.770
because of the risk tolerance that I had. But

01:09:01.770 --> 01:09:04.569
coming out of this, I do know my risk tolerance

01:09:04.569 --> 01:09:09.029
in life is I'm a little bit more cautious. I

01:09:09.029 --> 01:09:12.409
think, you know, when we were driving and we

01:09:12.409 --> 01:09:15.770
were in a car and Jeanne and I talked and she's

01:09:15.770 --> 01:09:17.149
like, yeah, I noticed you're going a little bit

01:09:17.149 --> 01:09:26.020
slower right now. And so. My hope for your listeners

01:09:26.020 --> 01:09:31.260
or the listeners is I hope that you don't have

01:09:31.260 --> 01:09:38.020
to go through something to adjust or really assess

01:09:38.020 --> 01:09:42.359
risk and understand how precious life is and

01:09:42.359 --> 01:09:46.899
how quickly something can happen in the blink

01:09:46.899 --> 01:09:50.300
of an eye. Greg talked about the boat flipping

01:09:50.300 --> 01:09:54.220
over. Talked about the water like that water

01:09:54.220 --> 01:09:56.159
coming over the front of the boat that image

01:09:56.159 --> 01:09:59.819
would never leave my head The feeling of the

01:09:59.819 --> 01:10:03.479
boat tipping up standing up on his nose essentially

01:10:03.479 --> 01:10:08.180
that feeling would never leave me And so, you

01:10:08.180 --> 01:10:10.819
know, we have not been back out on the water

01:10:10.819 --> 01:10:17.140
and before It got on you know, I'm sure we will

01:10:17.140 --> 01:10:21.250
be back out I don't know when but It's just,

01:10:21.250 --> 01:10:25.989
it's, it's a risk thing. And again, part of the

01:10:25.989 --> 01:10:28.729
processing that one goes through that PTSD that

01:10:28.729 --> 01:10:32.130
I alluded to earlier. And so my, my, I guess

01:10:32.130 --> 01:10:35.430
my, my parting words are just, it's okay. If

01:10:35.430 --> 01:10:38.789
that risk tolerance has changed, it is there

01:10:38.789 --> 01:10:41.489
for a reason. That's your gut telling you something.

01:10:42.069 --> 01:10:46.800
Listen to it. Absolutely. Thank you so much for

01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:49.359
saying that. You're exactly right. Life can change

01:10:49.359 --> 01:10:51.859
in an instant. For the listeners who are listening

01:10:51.859 --> 01:10:55.399
to this, please take what these five people are

01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:57.939
saying to heart. You don't want to have to learn

01:10:57.939 --> 01:11:00.680
something like this through experience. Take

01:11:00.680 --> 01:11:03.380
the lessons that these people on the line had

01:11:03.380 --> 01:11:06.500
to learn in a very difficult way. Take it. Get

01:11:06.500 --> 01:11:08.619
your safety gear. Put on the light this, even

01:11:08.619 --> 01:11:11.630
if it clashes with what you have on. you know,

01:11:11.649 --> 01:11:13.869
do all the things, take all the precautions that

01:11:13.869 --> 01:11:16.949
you can to keep yourself safe and your family

01:11:16.949 --> 01:11:21.229
safe. And thank you guys. David, I'll give you

01:11:21.229 --> 01:11:23.090
the last word if you want to chime in before

01:11:23.090 --> 01:11:28.529
we wrap up. No, I have nothing to say. Everyone

01:11:28.529 --> 01:11:32.170
be safe and be cautious like everyone else. Thank

01:11:32.170 --> 01:11:36.250
you. Amen. Amen. So like I said, tonight's conversation

01:11:36.250 --> 01:11:39.529
has been powerful. Big thanks to all the participants.

01:11:40.220 --> 01:11:43.279
Derek, Davina, Greg, David, Jason, thank you

01:11:43.279 --> 01:11:45.020
for bringing everybody together for this and

01:11:45.020 --> 01:11:47.619
for organizing this. I appreciate everyone's

01:11:47.619 --> 01:11:50.359
courage and honesty and this willingness to turn

01:11:50.359 --> 01:11:54.159
a tragedy into teaching. To our listeners, thank

01:11:54.159 --> 01:11:56.239
you so much for spending an hour, more than an

01:11:56.239 --> 01:11:58.000
hour at this point of your evening with us. We

01:11:58.000 --> 01:12:00.640
appreciate that. And we hope you walk away with

01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:05.520
tools, awareness, and just a renewed commitment

01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:08.640
to being safe on the water or wherever you are.

01:12:10.159 --> 01:12:13.319
To Tilly's family, we love you. We are praying

01:12:13.319 --> 01:12:17.060
for you. We hope tonight's discussion honored

01:12:17.060 --> 01:12:20.779
your sweet baby girl by helping to protect other

01:12:20.779 --> 01:12:23.079
families and give them the information that they

01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:26.659
need to stay safe. Okay? Be sure to join us for

01:12:26.659 --> 01:12:29.500
our next episode, which is going to discuss the

01:12:29.500 --> 01:12:31.939
rising unemployment rate of college graduates.

01:12:32.199 --> 01:12:35.720
That'll be airing October 8th at 6 p .m. Eastern.

01:12:36.060 --> 01:12:38.680
Until then, everybody stay safe, stay encouraged.

01:12:38.939 --> 01:12:40.779
and we'll see you next time. Good night, everybody.