Dr. Jerry, you got the whole world waiting.
Been ready for you to start the conversation.
No point of view, we got the haters confused.
Leave it up to you to bring us all the good news.
Positive vibes and a sex appeal too.
Dr. Andre Jerry, can I get an interview?
Good evening everybody, Dr. Andre here
and thank you for tuning in to episode 8 of Live with Dr. Andre Jerry,
one of the hottest new shows on the Artist First Radio Network.
Listen, you guys are in for a fantastic show today
because we are celebrating Women's History Month this episode
and featuring two dynamic women who are doing exceptional things
in their respective industries and leaving their mark in women's history,
or should I say herstory.
So to all the women out there, happy Women's History Month.
We appreciate and applaud you and your accomplishments, great and small.
So let's get right into it.
My first guest holds a special place in my heart
because not only is she a dear friend,
but she also plays or played an instrumental role
in jumpstarting my career as a radio show host.
So last April I was invited to appear as a guest on her show
to promote my first book, and now just a year later,
I'm able to return the favor and have her as a guest on my show.
So tonight it's my honor to introduce my good friend, Ms. Renata Morgan.
Renata, how are you today?
Hello, good evening, and first and foremost, Dr. Andre Jerry,
I want to thank you so much for that wonderful introduction.
I am greatly appreciated, and I am doing very, very well.
Thank you.
Wonderful to hear it, and thank you so much for sharing your time with me this evening.
Listen, I'm very honored to have you as a guest
and introduce you to our listeners, and also happy Women's History Month to you.
You're certainly someone that I admire a great deal,
giving your accomplishments as a combat veteran in the military,
you know, in business and in media.
So you're definitely a role model, not just for women, but for men as well.
So thank you for all that you do.
Oh, Andre, you know I surely appreciate that.
Thank you, and I'm grateful to be in the position to do those things.
So thank you for all the admiration.
Not a problem.
So let's get right into the interview.
So for my listeners today who may not be familiar with you and your work,
I want you to take just a brief moment to share with us a little bit about your background and yourself.
Okay.
As you stated and introduced me, my name is Renata Morgan.
First and foremost, I am a child of God.
I'm a queen.
I'm a mother of one.
I have an amazing son, which I am extremely proud of.
I'm the eldest of all my siblings.
I was born and raised in a city called Toledo, which is located in Ohio for those that don't know,
and primarily raised by my grandmother and aunt.
May they both continue to be God's precious angels.
I don't take away from my parents being in my life.
However, you know, they were still younger trying to figure things out.
So after completing my high school, you know, I was also in high school very active, very active.
I was a cheerleader.
I was in the band.
I played the instrument of a clarinet.
I ran track.
I was on the National Honor Society.
I was in the cotillion.
So I stayed pretty active.
Honor classes and the whole nine.
Well, after completing my high school is when I decided to join the military,
where I literally was only going to do six years, and somehow six turned into 20.
And now I am here as a retired veteran, which leads me to my entrepreneurial lifestyle.
And I am so, so grateful for the opportunities and the doors that God has allowed to open for me.
So that's pretty much who.
Yes.
Yes. Amen.
And thank you for sharing a little bit about your story to our listeners.
I know they appreciate that.
So your book, transitioning from a weekend to a war zone, I've read it.
It's a great read.
And I love that it chronicles your transition from a civilian to combat veteran and just shares with the readers your journey as a young woman in the military.
I definitely encourage our listeners to pick up a copy.
You're currently on a book tour, right?
Are you on a bit of a hiatus?
Well, I just I am still in a book tour.
But right now I have a couple of things that I'm working on to where I have to take just some time off of that because I'm working on something else.
But yeah, I'm still in the process of doing my book tour.
That is correct.
I just recently come from Washington and Oregon.
And let me tell you something.
They can keep those states.
Okay, because I'm so serious.
That was the whole reason why I moved from up north because of the cold weather.
And when I tell you, Andre, I mean, don't get me wrong, I enjoy my time there.
I have a I have an uncle that lives there.
I enjoy my time with him as well.
However, when I tell you it was so old that number one, my flight got delayed.
And then number two, my flight got canceled.
And the only thing I wanted to do was get home so they can have those states.
I don't think I'm going back there.
You didn't fall out with the people you fill out with the weather there, right?
Absolutely.
The weather was.
Yes.
And I know you've been all over the place.
I know you have a specific goal in mind regarding your book tour.
Can you let our listeners in on what your overall goal with your book tours are?
Yes.
So my goal for this year is to hit every state in the United States.
So that's exactly what I'm working on.
And I know I'm going to do it.
I'm not going to say I think I'm going to do it.
I'm already have it embedded in my mind that I'm going to do it.
So it will happen.
It will happen right now.
I am currently at 34 states to date.
Wow.
I know.
I tell people sometimes I'm at these book signings and I'm in states that I've never thought that I would be in.
Because I don't know about you, Andre, but I know when I was in school and in history class,
and we had to learn all 50 states, right?
Right.
And some of these states, I'm like, I would never go to – what would I be doing in these states?
I have no business there.
But then I look up and God has allowed me to travel these different – I mean, when I say I just be in amazement, I am.
I mean, I am so blessed to have – to be in the position to do so and have the ability to do so as well.
So yes, that is my goal.
Right. You definitely touch a lot of people when you're on these book tours and going from state to state.
And I know sometimes you call me up and you share with me stories that happen.
What I love about your book tour is that, okay, you encounter and interact with so many people.
And it's just like something that is listed in your bio.
It went from a book tour to you almost sort of came across your ministry in a way,
because you have conversations with people that's not just surrounding your book,
but you come across people that may be depressed or going through a difficult moment in their lives, and you minister to them.
And so just share a little bit about some of those stories and some of these unique encounters that you've had with some of the people that you've encountered on your tour.
Okay. Well, you know what? I'll go – I'll talk about the most recent one that I had.
Like I just stated, I was in the state of Washington, right?
And as I'm sitting here at my book signing, there's this woman that's walking to the right of me,
where there's this other woman that's standing to the left of me.
And the woman to the right of me, she begins talking, and I'm like, well, she definitely ain't talking to me,
because I know not one soul here in Washington like the location I was at.
So I'm like, she's definitely not talking to me.
Well, you know, she beelined straight to my face.
And as I'm looking at her, she was like, I met you in South Carolina.
And I'm like, wow. And so we both here, you know, ended up here in Washington, D.C.
And as she began speaking with me, I remember her face.
And in South Carolina, this woman purchased six of my books, OK? Six of them.
At that time, I did not know that woman started following me.
But what she said to me in Washington, D.C., she said, Renata, she said, whatever you do,
please don't stop doing what you're doing. She said, because you admire – I admire what you do.
She said, you encourage me, you inspire me. She said, not just through your book tours,
but, you know, I also try to uplift people as well as, you know, exercising and just being healthy and stuff like that as well.
But I say all that to say, at the end of the day, you never know who's watching you. Right?
So keep being the positive person you are and don't change for anybody,
because you have all these people out here watching you and you don't even know it.
So, you know, that's just, you know, one of the things.
And then in my travels, it's like I'm always running into somebody that I'm like, OK, they're not – nobody's going to know me here.
And then the voice says, I remember you. I got your book from such and such.
So it just feels so good that they supported me, though. You know what I mean?
Like, I'm going to tell you, Andre, when I begin – oh, Jesus, see, I'm getting happy.
So you just got to excuse me. But people don't understand the journey.
So when I began doing this, I knew nothing about really being an author.
What I did know is that I had a story to tell. Right? And I wanted to get that story out.
But when I began this entire journey, I spoke to God and I said, Lord,
if you just allow me to encounter one to 500 individuals that will read my story, I'm happy.
Because remember, I don't really know what I'm doing. I just know that I have a story to tell.
And I want to share with these people. But Andre, Andre, oh, Jesus, look where I am now.
I am a couple hundred books shy of 14,000. Do you hear me? 14,000. Oh, Jesus.
You got that right. Nothing but that. I am a few hundred books shy of 14,000.
And that's why when you mentioned, yes, I still enjoy my book tours. Yes, I enjoy conversing with people.
But at the end of the day, what God has allowed me to do was turn my story into my ministry.
And that's what I do now. If people come to my table now and they don't purchase a book, guess what?
To wear what I used to be like, man, they don't want to – why? I don't even question it no more.
I don't get upset. Nothing. Because what they will do is walk away with a piece of who I am.
And that's what matters to me. So, yes, sir. There you go. I love it.
That's God all day and 14,000 books sold. And we're not talking about Amazon.
We're talking about personally sold and signed, right? Absolutely. Absolutely.
Just a few hundred shy of 14,000. Yep. Absolutely.
So that means this man, my left hand, has signed those many copies. Yes. Yes.
Oh, my God. And see, so I first encountered you at Robbins Air Force Base when I was stationed at Robbins.
And, you know, I love books. And so I wasn't not going to stop at your table.
But what I admired from the get-go was how outgoing you were.
And it wasn't until we later became friends that I realized I thought you were always this outgoing person.
You actually told me that you were shy and reserved and that wasn't your typical personality.
So when people see you out and about and just being so I almost call yourself a bully because you make people come to your table.
You don't even ask like, sir, when you come back out of there, stop by my table. Look at her, bully.
You know, so it was just surprising to know that you weren't exactly the most outgoing person growing up, right?
No, I was I was a bit of an introvert. I mean, still still today, I kind of say to myself.
But what one thing that I had to learn with Andre was becoming an author.
See, nobody can tell your story the way that you can tell it.
You see what I'm saying? I don't care who you are. No, because we all have a story. That's one thing.
We all have a story. And I always tell people it all it all depends on how you wish to tell that story. Right.
So nobody can tell it like you can tell it. So for me, I literally had to pray.
I prayed to God and said, please allow my mouth to open to converse with these individuals in order so they can hear what I have to say.
Because other than that, these people walk right past me and I'll be looking dumbfounded like, OK, so nobody's interested in what you know I have going on over here.
So I literally I tell people I literally had to pray. And that's what happened.
And so now, like you said, I will stop anybody, everybody.
I will spark up a conversation and it will lead to if they engage in reading or, you know, something like that.
So I don't have any problems conversing with anybody anymore. So, yes, I'm very happy about that.
Yes, I love that about you. And I'm taking notes.
So we talked about OK, so you said 34 states that you visited so far.
Of those 34 states, which ones stick out in your mind? We know Washington, Oregon were cold.
You're not feeling that. I think you currently just wrapped up around what you call around Robin in Georgia, where you go to all the various Air Force and Army bases in Georgia.
But what what states stick out in your mind on this tour?
Oh, my goodness. You know, I've been to some wonderful states. Wonderful.
So if I don't name one, please don't hold it against me. But I will say when I touched down in the state of Texas, this is what I will say about Texas.
I was at Fort Hood. OK. And it was my first time.
And I think I've only been there once, but it was my first time visiting Fort Hood.
And when I tell you I normally order my books by the box of 100. OK.
So I had already taken 200 books with me because I just you just never know how things will go when you're at a location. You just never know.
What I will tell you, Andre, is not only now I'm only there for a week. OK.
Not only did I go through those 200 books, but I had to call and get a shipment expedited for another 200 books while I was in Fort Hood.
OK. And then not only that, I had so many people that were just like, can I donate to you?
I mean, literally, I cannot make this up.
God is just so good. I'm telling you, because sometimes you don't witness this stuff until you be like, until you really witness it.
Like, you know, you hear people talk about it, but until you actually witness it.
I had this gentleman purchase my book. OK. He purchased it the first day.
That next day, that gentleman came and told me, he said, oh, I finished your book. I said, wow, already?
He said, yes. He grabbed my hand. He said, and I want you to have this, he said, because I so admire what you're doing and I wish more women in the military would do this.
I open and listen, listen, if a person, I promise you this, I'm not. This is the truth.
If a person, because this is how I am right now with my spirit, if a person come by and they say, can I donate?
And they put a penny on my table. I'm happy because they didn't have to do that. You know what I'm saying?
I am. But this man opened my hand, Andre, and he placed a hundred dollar bill in my hand.
And when he walked away, of course, I didn't look at it while he was there. But when he walked away, I opened my hand and I seen what it was and tears just began to flow down my face because that man didn't have to do that.
But because you admire what I did, I spoke to him and said, go back to her.
And that's this is what he's telling me. Go back to her and show her how much you appreciate her.
So it'd be those things right there that I'll be like, wow. You know what I mean?
So I just run across so and that's just that's just one person.
When I say I run across so many people in different states and not only just the monetary, but I learned so much from them as well.
I mean, I've gained so much wisdom from all these veterans that I've spoke to across my journey.
And I'm very, very thankful for that as well. So, yes. Oh, man, that's just so amazing.
I know you inspire a lot of people and you'll probably hear about it years later or maybe you won't hear about it.
But I know that you've inspired other women, men, to to share their stories about their time in the military or their time as a combat veteran.
So many different stories that are just kept silent, not traumatic or, you know, some maybe traumatic stuff.
But there we I feel like we all have a story, particularly our women who are in the military.
I feel like there are so many experiences that could be shared that would minister to others.
So I love the fact that you are out there encountering and touching base with so many people because I know it's inspiring.
And, you know, you never know. I mean, you inspire me to write my book.
I mean, I was writing it anyway, but I had pockets of time where I would just procrastinate and not do anything on my book for months.
And I would run into you every so often at Robbins and you would always get on me.
Andre, are you working on your book? What have you done? Wait, we're waiting on your book now.
You know, so it's a little stuff like that that really helps to inspire people.
So you played an instrumental part two in getting my book out.
And, you know, as quickly as I did, because otherwise I could have taken a lot more time with it and just use work as an excuse or just just other things that get in the way.
So just thank you for putting yourself out there, overcoming, you know, shyness or whatever other personality traits you may have and just opening yourself up to people.
I know that means a lot to a lot of us.
So I'm going to shift gears a little bit and talk about these different roles that you play, because, you know, in addition to being a mother, a retired military veteran, you're an author.
You've done some motivational speaking as well.
We all know that you are powerful in your entrepreneurial activities and you're a radio show host.
But you recently have added another title to your attache and that's actress.
So I want you to tell and congratulations.
I want you to tell us a little bit about this and maybe give us some information on some new projects that you are working on that you're at liberty to discuss.
OK, so before I go into that, Andre, I just want to go back and talk about one more thing that you touched on as far as me just encouraging women, you know, to men and women.
There's a lot of women that come to my table.
Right. And in looking at them, I can look at them until they go through something.
So if I have somebody at my table, I'll just tell them to wait right there one second. I would just like to talk to them one on one.
And Andre, I can't make this stuff up.
Them women will break down and cry.
And what I tell them, I say, let it go, because at the end of the day, I don't know what you're going through.
You don't have to tell me what you're going through.
But I guarantee you once you let it go, you'll feel much better.
And what I also tell them is that I'm not trying to be your mother, but what I can be is your mentor.
So if there's ever a time that you need somebody to talk to, I always give them my personal phone number.
And I tell them, no matter what time or day, if you feel like you need to talk to somebody, reach out to me.
So I just wanted to throw that out there because I've done that on several occasions.
And I've had people reach out to me, but sometimes they're afraid to talk to other people in the military.
They need to talk to somebody outside of the military.
And because I've been where they're going, I know what it's like.
You know what I mean?
So I don't have a problem talking to any of them.
So, you know, like I told them, any time of the day or night, and they are so appreciative even of that,
because just in that gesture, there's a lot of life that can be changed.
So people don't understand how important and imperative that is.
So I just wanted to throw that out there.
No, I'm glad you did.
I'm glad you did, because a lot of people, we all take certain things for granted.
We take for granted that everybody out there has someone that they feel cares about them.
There are a lot of people out there that feel alone and they feel like no one cares about me.
So for you to pull someone to the side and say, wait, hold on just a second.
Let me finish this conversation.
But I want to talk to you.
Doing stuff like that signals to someone like, wow, I don't know this person,
they took time out of what they were doing to check on me and to minister to me and make sure that I'm OK.
That speaks volumes to people.
You don't know how many lives that you potentially could have saved.
That person could have been planning to do something really detrimental or harmful to themselves that day.
But you saw something that was a little amiss.
And you said, no, hold on a second.
Let's talk a little later.
And just that brief interaction changed the trajectory of their entire life.
So I commend you for that.
And please continue to do that.
And just even if you're not pulling someone to the side, like I said, your sheer presence and just opening up.
And I love the banner that you have because it really stops kind of you in your tracks.
And it says, what does it say at the top?
Who am I?
And then it kind of goes into your story.
Yes, it's just it stops you in your tracks and it makes you just stop and look at it and read.
And you see, wow, this is someone that is sharing their story.
And they'll think to themselves, you know, I have a story that I want to share.
And you don't have to be this super extroverted, outgoing person to be an author or to even share your story.
You know, stay prayed up and just put yourself out there and do what you can and let God fill in the gaps and do the rest.
And you got that right. That is absolutely the truth.
Yes, sir. That's what I say all the time.
Just and people say, I have a story. I say, well, what are you waiting on?
A write it because just sometimes people think people think that other people don't want to hear what they have to say.
But that's not the truth.
I tell people once you put whatever you have to say in the pages of that book, somebody is going to flip through it.
So what are you waiting for?
Because you don't know how you can inspire somebody who's afraid to talk about these different things that are going to be placed in a, you know, in your in the pages of your book.
So I'm always anytime somebody say that, I tell them to go for it.
So, yes, that is right.
Even with my own book, I you know, there were times when I said, you know, no one wants to hear about my miss, my personal mess.
But everyone who reads my book, they all have the same thing to say.
I felt like you were writing about me.
It's just I hear it all the time over and over.
So just imagine it's that because I'm saying something we all go through things that, you know, are similar.
It's not exactly similar.
But if you put your story out there, it will resonate with who it needs to resonate with.
And people will see themselves in your story and some of the things that you're talking about.
So I always I want to go off on a tangent.
I'm always encouraging people to write their story, you know, just put it out there.
But let's get before we lose track of too much time.
Let's let's talk about this.
This actor actress stuff, because I want to know how you kind of segue into that.
And is that something that you were always in your plan or did you stumble upon this?
Tell us a little bit about this acting stuff now.
OK, so who are we?
I will tell you that this female and I met not personally, but met through a mutual friend.
And what she does is she send me certain things when things are going on, not just in Atlanta or Georgia area, but in different states.
Right.
So she had sent me something that Tyler Perry was doing and he was actually looking for female soldiers.
And I'm like, there's no way like there is no way.
So as I'm looking over the criteria, you know, I fill everything out, send my pictures in all of this.
So the the email said they had three days to respond to me.
Right.
And they did it responding on three days.
So I said, you know what?
Maybe it's not my time.
Well, the night of the third day is when I received the text message asking me if I was still interested.
And Andre, I cannot make this up.
I must have read this thing over like ten times.
There is just no way because what I tell people is like hundreds of thousands of people, you know, put in for stuff like this.
But I am so grateful and thankful to be able to be.
Oh, my goodness.
Play a role of somebody that I was for 20 years of my life, you know, a female soldier.
So and to answer your question, I honestly it wasn't that I wanted to I didn't want to I didn't want to act,
but I wanted to put together a movie for others to act in it.
You know what I mean?
Like, I didn't want to act with myself.
Right.
But but what I say is, man, God is so good.
God is so good because he will open these doors and people don't understand.
The the manifestation behind things, because what I will tell you, Andre,
is that even before me knowing about anything that Tyler Perry was doing as far as military movies go right six months ago in my travels,
you know that I post, you know, certain places that I am.
And I'm always thanking my supporters for that particular location that I'm in.
So about six months ago, I started tagging Tyler Perry, Oprah Winfrey and Michelle Obama.
And have you know, six months later that I'm standing in the room with Tyler Perry, you know, like, how like how like I mean,
what manifestation, oh, my God, when I tell you, Andre, when I when I went to set,
I didn't even think that he was going to be in there because I know Mr.
Tyler Perry is very busy and he has a lot a lot of things going on.
So I'm not at no time thinking that I was going to lay eyes on him.
But when I say this man was on set with us every single day and for him to be just standing next to my shoulder and no,
no, I couldn't really speak to him. And that was perfectly fine.
But what I tell people is that transfer of energy.
People don't understand how strong that was when I'm standing next to this man and all the thoughts going through my head of where he's come from and how God has positioned him.
So now I'm standing next to him and I'm like, oh, like, it was unbelievable.
It really was like unbelievable. I couldn't believe it.
But such a listen, it was phenomenal, Andre, a phenomenal experience.
So needless to say, listeners, yes, be on the lookout.
Tyler Perry is coming out with a movie and it's called 68 88.
And it is a true story about the women back in the World War Two era.
And it was about eight hundred and fifty something of these women, but they were an all black, all female battalion.
So I'm just happy to say that I am fortunate and God has placed me in the position to be on set and actually just in the room with this man.
And I don't leave him, but there's others that I was in the room with as well.
But you know how many people dream to be like, oh, I want to meet Tyler Perry.
I want to meet Tyler Perry. And yes, I did say one day I want to meet Tyler Perry.
But God made it happen so fast. Like, oh, my God, like God don't plan.
And not at all. Not at all. So, yes, I'm very thankful for that.
So it's just Andre. It's so many doors that has opened for me.
And I'm telling you, I can't thank God enough and I can't stress enough how thankful I am.
What I tell people all the time and I know we have to wrap things up is that I have faith and I keep my faith day in and day out,
because with that faith, God is going to give me favor.
And I don't just have faith, Andre, I have electrifying faith.
And I don't know if people understand what that means.
But when I say, OK, because I'm about to go off into something else and I know we have to wrap things up.
I would just say I'm so thankful because people don't understand when them doors open, you can.
It's all about God's timing. That's number one.
It's all about God's timing, because a lot of times we want things to happen on our time.
And he said, no, that's not how things work. It happens when he's ready for it to happen for us.
And so that's why I tell people, if you stay ready, you got to get ready, because you never know what angle.
He's going to come at you from. So just be ready for it.
And so, again, I am just very thankful for the opportunities.
I am very grateful for all my supporters. I mean, I'm just I just am.
And I thank God for everything. So that's it.
Well, I'm extremely happy for you.
I was going to ask you about last thoughts that you wanted to give our listeners, but I think you just did.
I mean, your faith is, like you said, electrifying is just a testimony to the life that you live.
And I just some of that rubs off on me as well.
I mean, I think I'm a man of faith myself.
But I mean, the faith that you have really is just outstanding and just encourages me to rely on God and wait on God even more.
So I appreciate you sharing this story with us.
As you know, time flies when you're on the live radio, but I want to thank you once again for being my guest this evening and helping me to celebrate Women's History Month.
I hope you know you're welcome back anytime to give us an update on whatever it is that you're working on.
So just thank you so much for your time this evening.
And Dr. Andre Jerry, I most certainly thank you.
And you have a wonderful evening.
Same to you.
Well, listen, everybody, Renata's book, Transition from a Weekend to a War Zone, is available for sale at BooksOfBrilliant.com and on Amazon.
Also come out and support the second annual Relevant with Renata event that's taking place at J.C. Venue Plus in Morrow, Georgia on April 15th.
So for more info, check our show's web page or visit BooksOfBrilliant.com.
We're going to take a quick break, but when we return, I'll have another dynamic woman that I want you to meet.
So stay tuned and we'll be right back.
It's going to be live.
You're entertained.
Get ready for Travis Maloy.
He's on stage.
Here comes Sharp Day Scrooge.
For an OG Rocks, aka I Am Him.
It's Marcus Ladeo.
Here comes Tracy the Rare Breed.
It's poet Dr. Andre Jerry.
Get ready for jewelry.
On the 1st and 2nd, it's T.J. Wiggles.
Saturday, April 15th at J.S. Venue Plus.
The second annual Revalent with Renata.
A night of poetry, soul, and a whole lot more.
So now you're ready to get those tickets, right?
I know you are.
The doors open at 7, showtime's at 8.
Your tickets are $45.
Your ticket price includes a free buffet.
Get ready for a cash bar, sweets and treats, spenders, you're welcome.
For more information, call Revalent with Renata at 678-586-1656.
Or email us at Books of Brilliant at Gmail.com.
That's Books of Brilliant at Gmail.com.
An unprecedented event that's on its way to Mauro, Georgia.
Saturday, April 15th, the second annual Revalent with Renata.
Soul, poetry, and a whole lot more.
Get your tickets now.
Remember, as soon as you open the door, know that you're a Revalent for sure.
This is a sound brought to you by Rob the Soundman.
Saturday, April 15th at J.S. Venue Plus.
Mauro, Georgia.
Get your tickets and allow your Revalents to begin.
You're back live with Dr. Andre Geary.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the show.
So if you're just tuning in, we're celebrating Women's History Month on tonight's episode by featuring incredible women who are doing outstanding work in their respective industries.
So I was introduced to my next guest through a mutual friend and also through her inspirational posts on Instagram.
She has an impressive background in numerous accomplishments in academia, most notably a PhD in education from UCLA with an emphasis in educational psychology, human development, and liberatory education.
She's currently an associate professor of psychology and child development at California State University, Stanislaus, and also a public speaker and transformational coach and consultant that specializes in diversity, equity, inclusion, and social justice.
Please help me welcome to the show Dr. Aletha Harbin.
Dr. Harbin, welcome to the show.
Hi, hi everyone. Thank you so much, Dr. Geary for having me on the show today.
And thank you so much for that.
Oh, no problem. It's my pleasure to have you on the broadcast. This is exciting. This is a treat for both me and the listeners.
So listen, I know I gave our listeners just sort of a brief interview of your background, but I'd like for you just to share a little bit more about yourself just to give our listeners some insight into who Dr. Aletha Harbin is.
Absolutely.
So, like you said, I did earn my PhD in education from UCLA, and I did emphasize, or my degree emphasis is in educational psychology. So I focus on what's happening with what's happening among students within schools.
I focus a lot on their mental health, their psychological adjustment, their psychosocial adjustment. It's all really interesting to me to see how school contextual factors like teacher behavior, teachers pedagogical practices, just what's happening within the school context can impact students' functioning, right, their mental health.
And so also in thinking of educational psychology, I am a motivational scholar, so I like to focus on student motivation, and this is why I do have a more general focus on achievement motivation when I work not only with students, but with educators in general.
And like you said, I do have a very strong background in human development. I focus a lot on child and adolescent development in particular, and then, yes, I have a social justice focus with all that I do as well.
So I love what I do. It all intersects, you know, because I'm all about addressing issues that impact diverse groups of students, but also diverse educators as well, because if our educators who are working with our students are in a good mental space, right, if their mental health is good,
if they feel supported, if they feel a sense of belonging, then it's easy to show up in a very positive way for their students. So I like to focus on both students and educators and what's happening within the classroom.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Yes, and you did mention how I'm a public speaker and a transformational coach and consultant. So, yes, I do focus on DEI. That is huge right now, but it's something that I have been trained in really well, and, you know, I definitely believe in diversity, equity, and inclusion, and there are so many different ways that not only educators, but people who are not in education and other industries.
Can really step up to the plate and ensure that their place of work is carrying out a DEI agenda that's truly effective and transformational. Also, because I am a motivational scholar, I speak a lot and do a lot of consulting and coaching in the area of achievement motivation.
So that's why you'll see a lot of motivational, you know, quotes, just material on my Instagram page and then wellness is really important to me as well. And that goes hand in hand for me, at least with mental health.
Well, that runs the gamut. You pretty much care about the individual as a whole, and I love that you focus on not only students, but educators as well, because I can imagine dealing with, you know, trying to educate our kids and deal with some of their emotional issues that they also develop some type of mental health issues as well along the line.
So it's good that you focus on not only the students, but the educators as well. And let me just say that you, you have such a calming, reassuring voice. It's like the perfect voice for psychology, because if you have some type of mental instability, you want for your therapist to have a voice that's soothing and reassuring and makes you feel like you're in a safe space.
It makes me feel good to hear you say that.
Well, listen, in line with some of the stuff that you deal with with your students, what are some of the trends that you've been noticing in terms of mental health challenges with students overall?
Well, I think, I think, you know, at the onset of the pandemic, we started to see an increase, right, in health issues among students, but also among educators and just lots of different people.
And I would say, you know, I think in our society, we are becoming better at normalizing, seeking help, right?
Therapy, seeking counseling, and I hope that that trend continues. But even with the students that I work with, I have noticed such an increase amongst my own students when it comes to their mental health challenges. So, yes, my, you know, I have students who
would come to me and talk to me because I'd like to meet with all my students one on one if I'm able to. And they would reveal to me any mental health challenges they were dealing with.
However, I feel that there are so many more challenges that have, that students are talking about now, given the pandemic. And so I know that, at least for instance, on my campus, it's kind of like all hands on deck, especially in my Department of Psychology and Child Development.
I know we're really working hard to cater to the needs of our students. I know that our counseling department is working hard to cater to our students. But yes, I do a lot of work within my classes with students, too, because I teach psychology classes.
So we do address the topic of depression. We do talk about anxiety. We talk about stress, right? We talk about all of these really important, we talk about a lot of important mental health challenges because students want to talk about it and they want to talk about coping mechanisms.
But I definitely always refer students and make sure that they are connected to the right people to receive the help that they need. So that is a major trend that I'm seeing. Yeah.
Oh, it's good that there's more. Go ahead.
I was just thinking about housing and security.
I didn't catch that last part.
So housing and security.
Okay, gotcha. So students who, I would say housing and security, food and security, so students who might be homeless or searching for a permanent place to stay while trying to take my classes and their other, you know, professors classes and then also with food and security.
There are a lot of students who are hungry. And so just, you know, I'm just trying to address those issues with my own students.
I know I had, you know, I sometimes will have students who they can't continue the semester because of what's happening. So I just try to help them as much as possible.
So those are just some of the issues, but there are a lot of issues, including social and emotional functioning and some challenges surrounding that.
Right. I'm glad that you mentioned that because, you know, we focus so much on mental health, not to, you know, take away from the importance of that.
But to your point, there are a lot of children that are dealing with food and housing insecurities that also negatively impacts their ability to learn and just, you know, you know, being a social environment in a safe space.
So I'm glad that you are just kind of shining a light on that. I wanted to ask you something.
You know, there's a lot of therapy that's now being done virtually in this climate. Do you feel that the virtual counseling is just as effective as the in-person counseling?
You know, I think it can be. I was actually just talking to one of my classes about this yesterday.
I think it can be. I definitely think that people need to do their homework and make sure that they look, you know, just make sure that you look into whoever it is that you are seeking assistance from.
But I know there are a lot of therapists and a lot of counselors who are advertising their services online.
I'm on social media quite a bit. So there are different therapists who I'm connected to, and they're doing really great work and putting out really great content.
And they seem to be really awesome. So I think it's just a matter of, you know, everyone doing their homework and making sure that they are connecting with someone who can really help them on their journey.
Wonderful. And I'll just shift gears a bit because everyone knows that I love an author and you do have a book that you co-author alongside Kimberly Gordon Biddle
and also Cynthia Hudley that focuses on careers in child and adolescent development.
Can you briefly tell the listeners about this book and its intended audience and then also how your expertise contributed to the content of this book?
Absolutely. I love this book. It's a really great book and it's doing really well.
So my colleagues and I, we wanted to focus on students in the field of child and adolescent development.
And we really wanted to help students in that field to understand the many career paths that exist within the field.
I know that for me, a lot of students would always approach me and ask me, what else can I do besides being a preschool teacher?
Of course, we definitely need a lot of really wonderful, great preschool teachers.
But I know that students, they do want to know what else is available to them because sometimes they're, depending on what program they're in,
there may be a stronger focus on being a preschool teacher and not necessarily on some of the other careers that they can have.
And so my colleagues and I came together because we have been experiencing this for a while and we said, let's write a book because we noticed that there,
as far as we could see, there were no other books that existed that were specific to child and adolescent development and really exploring different career paths.
So this is really the first book of its kind and we're really proud of it.
And I think this is why it's doing so well because so many people are interested in learning about different career paths that they can take.
And so my colleagues and I, we leaned into our own knowledge on a variety of different careers in this field.
And we conducted expert interviews and also posed questions for the readers to consider in thinking about, you know,
what career they may want to, you know, what career they want to adopt within child and adolescent development.
So for instance, you know, let's say a reader was thinking about developing children's toys, right?
That's something that they can do.
Or if they want to work with organizations that are focused on children with terminal illnesses, that's a particular path they can take.
Or if they want an administrative position, right, that's a possible career path.
So there's just different types of careers and we're really happy with this book. I like it.
So yes, it's a book that students, we definitely are encouraging students to purchase and read.
But also it's a book for anybody who is interested in working with children, adolescents, and families.
I love it. So it really is about career trajectory and offering different options in the adolescent development career field
and people who are in adjacent career fields that may be not lost,
but just need some direction in where they want to take their career or how they want to broaden their career, so to speak.
So, yeah, I think that's definitely a great book.
Definitely encourage our readers to go out and get a copy of it. And it is available on Amazon, correct?
Yes, it's available on Amazon.
Wonderful. Do you have any plans to write any additional books?
You know, yes. I actually am under contract right now to write a book that is focused on a growth mindset.
It's funny because one of my colleagues, she contacted me and she said,
hey, I'm working on a book series. I want you to write a book for the series.
I said, sure, sounds good. And I told her what I wanted to write.
She said, that sounds great to me, but I want you to write on this.
I said, that's great, but I want to write on this. And we kind of went back and forth for a while.
And so I finally, we were talking about it and I said, okay,
because there's a certain kind of vision she has for the whole series, right?
And she was like, come on. And so I decided to combine, right,
combine both of our interests with this particular book.
And I love growth mindset. It's totally great. I am a motivational scholar and so is my colleague.
And so it is something I can easily write on. It's just, I think, because of where my mind is right now,
like with social justice, I was trying to think about, okay, well, how do I want to kind of, you know,
pull this book off and it speaks to various interests that I have.
And so that's what I was working on with this particular book.
So anyway, I'm excited about the book, but yeah, the main focus is on growth mindset.
So I know that that's a really popular theory right now.
So if anyone's interested in maybe picking up my book when it does get released, I definitely,
I'll let you know when it gets released if anyone wants to.
Oh, please do. We'll have to have you back on once you have the book ready and it's been released.
But yeah, either on growth mindset or social justice,
either one of those are trending topics that I know a lot of people would want to read about.
So definitely keep going with that. I definitely spur you on with that.
And I'm going to talk about your web series because you also have a web series out that focuses on equity
and inclusion in education and some other areas as well.
But in this web series, you tackle a lot of sensitive and many would say controversial topics.
So tell us a little bit about why you felt it's important to kind of facilitate discussions on topics like this,
you know, because our mainstream contemporaries, as you know, often avoid topics that you touch on.
So, yeah, just talk about that a little bit.
Right. Thank you so much for bringing this up.
I am super proud of my webinar series and I really like it.
It's something that I look forward to.
I've been on a bit of a hiatus, but I am going to start producing some more shows for that program.
But yes, it's on YouTube for anyone who's listening.
It's called Transformative Conversations, Promoting Equity and Inclusion in Education and Beyond.
And I actually have a couple of programs that I did for this series that I am going to be posting soon
if anyone wants to check the series out.
But what how this came about is when George Floyd was murdered almost three years ago now,
I put on a webinar titled Confronting Anti-Black Racism on College Campuses.
So it was a two day webinar program that I put on.
And that was my first time putting on like a major webinar program and it actually it went national.
It drew an international audience.
And so I'm glad it did.
I think a lot of people, especially during that time, were interested in learning more about anti-black racism,
what it is, what it looks like, how it manifests itself in different ways.
And so once that two day training was over, I decided to put this program on because I said, you know,
I want to continue the conversation.
I don't want to just stop it.
And so that's where Transformative Conversations came from.
And I launched the series in the fall of 2020.
So it's been like two and a half years.
I'm in my third season.
And the focus has been so far, for the most part, on the black experience, particularly in education.
And again, that's because, you know, I had the two day training on confronting anti-black racism.
And so then I just kept moving forward with discussing the black experience.
And, you know, I'm expanding, of course, because I do focus on other diverse groups and communities as well.
But I thought it was really important to center the black experience in education because sometimes it's not talked about enough in mainstream,
like with mainstream discussions.
And so I, if you check out my YouTube series, you'll see that I'm talking with other black experts on educational topics that I think are really important.
So, for instance, inclusion and belonging, the campus color line, which deals with race,
and it's about how race is still a major issue on our college campuses and education really in general.
And something with thinking about that, right, about systemic racism and how race is still impacting so many different people,
I noticed that a lot of times the conversations about what's happening, let's say, on college campuses focus on students, which is great.
That's wonderful.
We should focus on students.
But sometimes there is, like, not enough of a focus on what's happening with faculty and staff who are black and who may be from other marginalized communities.
And I think that's really problematic.
I agree.
Yeah, because I think of myself as like, OK, if I'm not well, then I'm not going to be able to show up for my students.
So we do need to focus on me.
We do need to focus on my unique experiences.
We need to focus on the unique experiences of other black faculty and staff and black and faculty and staff of color.
It's super, super important.
And it's just not about our students.
Our students are important.
It's about everyone else who is functioning on a campus.
Right.
And so I am expanding my focus, of course, to other marginalized groups.
And I have like I've had a couple of talks that have focused on black and Jewish relations.
And I do want to make a note that, yes, there are people who are black and Jewish.
The last conversation that I had was at the end of November, beginning of December.
And it was a three day event for my series.
The focus was on Kanye West and Kyrie Irving and everything that was going on surrounding the two of them.
And it was really great to bring on different speakers to join me in conversation because we were able to explore a lot of different aspects of what was going on.
And so, you know, if that's something you ever want to discuss, we can discuss that, I'm sure, at another time.
But there are so many diverse opinions about what happened.
And it was just good to kind of talk it out with different people.
But anyways, I am going to continue to expand on a lot of different issues for the series in different communities.
I hope you do because, you know, just the last topic that you mentioned about Kanye West and Kyrie, I mean, at work we were afraid to talk about it.
You know, there would be little private circles where two or three people would talk about it.
But as a whole, we just really shied away from because you don't want to say the wrong thing.
You don't want to offend anyone.
And it's such a sensitive topic that, you know, a lot of people just avoided it altogether.
So I appreciate forums like this where we're confronting each other, not in a combative way, but in a, you know, how do you consider it?
How do you feel about this?
How did this make you feel?
What's your take on this?
And it just invites you different points of view that you may be able to take something positive from and expand your perspective on a matter.
So definitely continue this.
It's a great web series.
I just love how time just gets away from me on these radio shows.
There's some other topic that I wanted to touch on.
And I'll see if we can go over a little bit.
But I'll touch on this.
So you recently did an IG live on spirituality, relationships and mental health with Tina Love, who is a very colorful character.
Can you tell me about how this dynamic came about?
How did you meet her?
And, you know, when are you going to do another show with her?
Because that show tickled me so much.
I know you were laughing.
You know what?
I actually randomly met her after seeing her.
Like I was in the audience of a couple of IG live, just in the audience hanging out there.
And somehow we connected.
I can't remember who reached out to who.
But she reached out to me and said she wanted to go live with me.
And I said, sure, why not?
And so we just decided to go live on this topic of spirituality, relationships and mental health.
And we've gone live maybe a few times now.
And one of our discussions was on Chris Rock, once again getting into, like you said, catching on sensitive topics, which I never shy away from.
I guess for me personally, I personally do not see the big deal in discussing these different topics.
I think part of that is because I'm used to discussing sensitive topics.
It was something that I was like at UCLA.
That was something we were always like encouraged to do.
And there's a way to discuss sensitive topics as well, you know.
So and also with all my classes, I'm always talking about sensitive topics with my students.
So sometimes I remember when I, you know, when I was first at my current institution,
sometimes my students would be shocked at what we were discussing.
And now I think students are just used to what I'm going to bring up in class like the top.
It's like we have to talk about this.
I mean, I have to help increase your cultural competence, but we need to have these conversations.
But anyways, yeah, she and I had a really good conversation.
And, you know, honestly, most topics that I discuss, whether spirituality, relationships,
mental health, like what Tina and I were discussing, it's all related to the work that I do.
Because I know for me, I'm always checking in with myself, checking in on my own mental health.
I always am coming from a very spiritual place.
I'm a Christian, a proud Christian.
And so for me, I'm always thinking about my own Christian values.
And I let that lead the way often.
So I do consider myself to be spiritual in a lot of different ways.
So it's just a good discussion we were having.
But yeah, I know she's a very colorful character, like you said.
She's very funny.
I just loved it.
And I love that you're open to having conversations with people from different backgrounds.
I mean, because if you say if you're just talking amongst your colleagues or, you know,
fellow educators or what have you, I mean, those can be great discussions,
but then you're also limiting the perspective a bit.
But when you kind of broaden out and get people from various backgrounds,
it can really enlighten the conversations significantly.
So I just I love that you were open to that.
And the dynamic between you two, it was just funny because she would say something like completely inappropriate.
And you would kind of smile and laugh your way through it.
It just tickled me for some reason.
But when you have another one that you're about to do, just send me a note so I can make sure I block out the time
because I was definitely enthralled with that.
I was trying to stay professional with what she was saying.
You know, I was like.
Right. That's what made it funny.
That's what made it funny.
But listen, I'm going to OK, so I got word from my engineer that we can go over a little bit.
So I'm going to press with a few more of my questions, because I wanted to touch on feminism a bit,
because this is this is a topic that even for me, I don't really fully.
I don't feel like I fully appreciate it as much as I could.
So in one of your recent posts on social media, you were commemorating Women's History Month and you quoted an excerpt from
Feminism is for Everybody by author Bill Hooks.
And I'm going to read it in a second.
But what I loved about this quote is that I feel as though it encapsulates the essence of what the feminist movement is all about.
But it says, if any female feels she need anything beyond herself to legitimate and validate her existence,
she has already given away her power to be self-defining her agency.
So, like I said, I just love this quote.
What about this quote resonated with you?
Oh, my God, I love that quote.
And I love Bill Hooks, who's no longer with us.
She was an American author, an educator, theorist, a social critic, distinguished professor.
She was absolutely amazing.
And the reason I love this quote is because I'm a woman.
And as a woman, I know that we have agency, right?
And that means we can make our own decisions and live lives that are in alignment with our own values and interests and desires.
And also, as women, we don't have to wait around for anyone to lead us, particularly a man.
As women, we can be leaders in our own lives and in the lives of others.
And just trust me, I appreciate men.
I think men are great.
But as a woman, I have my own vision.
I have my own needs and desires, and it's not surrounding a man, right?
It's about me, or it's about what it's about me being in alignment with my faith, too, as a Christian.
And that may not necessarily have anything to do with a man.
And so with feminism, right?
I mean, I don't know what brand of feminism different people are prescribing to, but more generally, the way I see it is it is about equality of the sexes.
And it's just about everyone being able to live their lives in the best way that they know how.
And so I want to read this quick quote to you.
And I actually posted this on social media, too.
I read this quote, and it's by Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who was the former associate justice of the U.S. Supreme Court.
And they quote, feminism is the notion that we should each be free to develop our own talents and not be held back by manmade barriers.
And I really love this quote, because again, right?
Feminism is about empowering, like I said, all people and of course women in particular.
And it's really a movement to achieve, like I mentioned before, gender equality in law and in practice.
And we can do that by addressing oppression, so sexism, sex exploitation.
Something else I want to bring up to you real quick is intersectional feminism.
So that's been talked about, or that's been talked about more and more.
And so this is about addressing the overlapping or even intersecting, right?
Overlapping and intersecting nature of different forms of discrimination.
So for instance, sexism, racism, classism, right?
How do all of those come together to, you know, affect different communities of women?
And so an example would be, you know, I'm a black woman, right?
And I have some really good friends who are white women.
And so there are certain experiences that we all share, regardless of our race.
There are certain experiences such as sexism, right?
In different forms of oppression.
However, we still are having different experiences because me as a black woman,
I'm dealing with or I'm having experiences that aren't different from my white female friends.
I check in with them, I talk with them, and we're having different experiences, you know?
So for instance, I was thinking of, you know, the stereotype that black women are strong, right?
There's a stereotype that exists about our strength.
So we're strong, we're brave, we're courageous, you know, I hear all of that.
Sure, you know, but we have to be strong, right?
It's like we don't, a lot of times we don't have a choice.
It's like we kind of have to speak up for ourselves.
We have to, you know, fight against injustice.
If we don't do it, then who's going to do it for us, right?
So we have to do that.
And so then, you know, for white women, there's some other stereotypes associated with them,
such as, you know, white women being soft, being feminine, being gentle, needing compassion.
Like we don't always hear that when it comes to black women.
That doesn't mean it's necessarily true, but I'm kind of just going on different stereotypes, right?
And so if I continue with this example, right, I've been in situations where I have been discriminated against by white women.
And if I bring up my feelings associated with that to, you know, maybe to this particular white woman,
she may start crying and now everyone's focused on her tears.
And no one's focused on my pain, right, my pain in that particular moment.
And so these, I'm just trying to give some examples, right, of how, yes, there are certain experiences
that are going to be similar between, let's say, myself as a black woman and other white women, like my white friends.
But we are also having different experiences.
And so intersectional feminism takes that into account and it kind of speaks to how, yes, with feminism, you know,
I knew that there's so many, me and I, we kind of touched on this a little bit earlier,
but I know that there's different feelings surrounding that, you know, that some men might have.
But, you know, some of what white women might be fighting for might be different than what black women are fighting for, right?
Right, right.
So thinking about like being independent, right, being, so black women, for instance, for the most part,
have needed to be independent, right, and highly self-sufficient.
Yes.
Because of systemic racism.
And that says nothing about our black men.
Our black men are absolutely amazing and absolutely wonderful.
But systemic racism affects black men and black women in really unique ways.
And so black women, for the most part, have had to work, you know, and have had to, you know, really,
and even for the ones who haven't had to work, like we're still dealing with systemic racism.
Whereas, so, you know, there's, I feel like there's so much I can say regarding this, but I'll try to kind of wrap it up.
But, you know, I know that, I guess my bottom line here is that different or diverse communities of women are,
have diverse needs and when it comes to feminism are pushing for, you know, are pushing to be seen and heard in a lot of different ways, right?
So while there are certain truths that, you know, women in general are dealing with, there's still a lot of diversity.
And, you know, in terms of what we, like what our experiences are and what we're fighting for.
And so it is important for us to take intersectional feminism into account.
I'm glad that you touched on intersectional feminism because it challenges that perspective that I know a lot of black men have.
And I even had it, you know, in my 20s that, you know, feminism is a white woman issue.
And, you know, we didn't exactly view it as a cause that black women in particular should be taking up.
But, you know, what you said about intersectional feminism, it does challenge that notion.
So I'm glad that you talked about that a bit because I feel like it will help enlighten that perspective of feminism as a whole
to a lot of people who don't fully appreciate what it all encompasses.
So I'm glad that you mentioned that.
Can I bring something up to you real quick?
Go right ahead.
Maybe you've heard about it. It's been going on online.
So you're right. There have been some interesting conversations I've been a part of where, and again, this is not all black men, right?
But there have been black men who have talked about, have you heard of like passport rose?
I don't know all the details surrounding it.
What is it?
It's apparently this community called Passport Bros. Have you heard of this? This is like online.
Vaguely I've heard of Passport Bros. But enlighten me. What is it?
Yeah. Well, you know what? I'm learning too.
So I've been hearing about it more recently online. It sounds like this has been kind of a community that's been growing.
But basically it seems like there's this growing community of men.
And I think this is how they're referring to themselves.
Passport Bros. And just like you, I vaguely heard about it, but I'm hearing about it more and more the more I'm online.
And basically it's a group of men who are saying that feminism is the problem and feminism is what's ruining the black family.
Like this is what I'm hearing.
And I'm hearing this straight from the men's mouths who are a part of this community.
And again, I'm just going off what I'm literally hearing when I'm attending different like discussions that are occurring online.
But what's interesting is at the same time these, you know, a number of these men, what's happening is they're using their passports and they're going overseas.
They're going to countries like the Dominican Republic, for instance, and they are engaging in what many are saying looks like sex tourism and even sex exploitation.
And that doesn't mean that's what all the men are doing.
There are men who are apparently going over to other countries to marry a woman from overseas because they're saying that women here in America are into feminism and they don't want any part of that.
And so I find it all to be problematic in general, you know.
And again, this isn't all men.
This is not, you know, this is like a group of men and I'm a growing group of men.
And it seems to be a trend what's happening and I'm kind of reading about it a little bit more.
But I do find this problematic because on the one hand, you know, we have this group of men who are complaining about feminism here in America but are going overseas and engaging in behaviors that I think are questionable when it comes to the women in some of these other countries.
And I think this might be coming out of not fully understanding them.
And I don't know what's really going on and I don't want to, I don't think I want to speak beyond what I currently know.
But this is what I currently know.
Apparently there have been some, I think, some articles written about it too.
Right.
No, I'm giggling a bit because I'm listening to you but I'm also Googling passport bros as well just to get an understanding.
I'm like I said I was vaguely familiar with this terminology but what I have here is that the passport bros are men who have chosen to seek out foreign women, typically from other countries for relationships.
They believe that Western women have been influenced by cultural and societal pressures to behave a certain way.
And so that spurs them seeking out foreign women. It doesn't necessarily say for sex. I know that that goes on too.
I think that's a whole separate issue, the exploitation of foreign women.
But yeah, but from this definition that I'm, and it may be a limited definition, I'll definitely do some more research on it, but it tends to be more of a school of thought that hey,
there's a issue with Westernized women in terms of, you know, feminism type thing and not really being in line with the traditional role of a woman in a relationship.
So I think it's more along those lines and less so about sex.
But I'm actually glad that you brought this up because this would be a great conversation to have with some friends of mine who I think may fall into this category.
You know, truthfully, even I share some of that sentiment that Westernized women are a little bit more difficult to court, so to speak, and not placing all Western women in a box.
But certainly a lot of men share that school of thought.
So I think that's a perfect topic for your next web series. I'd actually like to be a part of that.
That's actually a really good topic of discussion because it's because I'm kind of scared talking to you about it because it's just one of those topics that, you know, oh my God, I don't want to fall out.
I don't want to have a difficult conversation, but this is stuff that we need to talk about.
It needs to be talked about. Seriously. I think we both need to do some independent research on it, get more knowledgeable about it, and highlight it.
I think it's a perfect topic for a web series. So I'm actually glad you brought it up.
Perfect. And one last thing I want to say just really, really quickly is, you know, and because I want to make it clear to the audience,
this particular community of men is something that I am still learning about myself.
So when I brought up like sex tourism, for example, or sex exploitation, do I think that there may be men who are engaged in that?
Yes, because I don't know 100% sure, but that is the conversation. That's one of the conversations and one of the more critical conversations surrounding this.
But yes, there are all men who are part of that community may not be doing that. I would bring that up.
Absolutely.
That's a critical conversation that's occurring, but I don't want, but I want to make it very clear.
I'm not saying that all the men who are part of that community are even engaging in that because that is highly problematic.
But what I, another really problematic conversation surrounding it is who makes up that group?
And a lot of the stereotypes about women that are associated with that, and black women in particular.
So there are men from that community who are making really, well, really problematic remarks about black women and really grouping black women together
and saying things that just aren't true about all black women as an excuse to, as their excuse to go overseas as really putting black women down at the same time.
And so that was one of the reasons I kind of wanted to bring that up as we were talking about intersectional feminism because, you know, as black women,
I think, you know, we want our black men, right, to support us and whether online or offline and so to be hearing, you know, some of our own men.
And it's not all, of course not, you know, but hearing some of our own men make really, you know, horrible remarks about us and not really understanding our role in feminism is hard to hear.
I agree. It's time to have the conversation because I do see a great divide coming in that area.
If we don't sit down and have these difficult conversations and enlightening conversations on topics like this, it's just going to further divide the community.
So I am a big proponent of talking more about this. So glad you brought this up because this, like I said, is a worthy conversation.
Dr. Harvin, this has been a blast. I know we've gone over. I don't want to continue on too much and take advantage of the kindness of my engineer,
but I appreciate him extending our time a bit. And I really have enjoyed this conversation. I do hope that we reconvene on some level, whether it's on your web series or perhaps another segment here on this show.
This has been an absolute blast. I thank you so much for your time today. And again, happy Women's History Month to you. And I look forward to connecting with you soon.
Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me on the show. And if anyone wants to connect with me, be sure to connect with me on Instagram.
My handle is at Dr. so D-R-period-A-L-E-T-H-A-H-A-R-B-E-N. So that's at Dr. Harvin. And then my email is AlethaHarvin at gmail.com and my website is alethaharvin.com.
And Dr. Harvin's book is again, Careers in Child and Adolescent Development, and it's available now on Amazon. Also be sure to check out her web series on YouTube. And like she said, follow her on Instagram. She has a wonderful Instagram page with a lot of great content.
And you can check our show's web page for more information. So thank you again. That's our show for tonight, folks. Be sure to tune in for our next episode, which airs live on Wednesday, April 26th at 8 p.m. Eastern, right here on the Artist First Radio Network. Good night, everybody.
Bye.