WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.660 in a world brimming with complexity few creatures 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:12.839 embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:17.699 precision she dances from bloom to bloom each 00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:22.420 motion guided by millennia upon millennia of 00:00:22.420 --> 00:00:28.800 instinct each act in service to the whole and 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:34.560 then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:40.500 of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist, 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.460 part poet, they move along their hives with the 00:00:45.460 --> 00:00:50.539 efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to 00:00:50.539 --> 00:00:54.219 the bees' needs as best they can comprehend, 00:00:54.859 --> 00:00:59.670 and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the 00:00:59.670 --> 00:01:05.549 Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing 00:01:05.549 --> 00:01:12.150 like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their 00:01:12.150 --> 00:01:23.569 journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping 00:01:23.569 --> 00:01:26.329 presented by our great friends and partners in 00:01:26.329 --> 00:01:29.920 beekeeping. man like. I'm gonna try to keep this 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:33.159 intro today very brief short and sweet because 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.280 we have such a good interview coming to us today. 00:01:36.670 --> 00:01:41.329 We have beekeepers Joy and Eric McEwen from Oregon 00:01:41.329 --> 00:01:44.670 and we're going to be talking about natural nest 00:01:44.670 --> 00:01:47.989 beekeeping and a bunch of other really great 00:01:47.989 --> 00:01:50.950 things that they do to keep things as natural 00:01:50.950 --> 00:01:54.510 and as organic as possible on their beekeeping 00:01:54.510 --> 00:01:57.769 journey. And we'll be talking about apitherapy 00:01:57.769 --> 00:02:00.430 and their commercial beekeeping business in general. 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:04.000 First, just one little thing, and that is, when 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:06.659 was the last time that you spent some quality 00:02:06.659 --> 00:02:11.560 time with your bees? I did it this morning. I 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:14.819 got up early, went for a hike in the mountains, 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:18.560 came back, and just enjoyed some quality time 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:20.620 with a handful of beehives that are right around 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:24.819 my home. And you know, just instead of doing 00:02:24.819 --> 00:02:27.620 a regular inspection with a big checklist of 00:02:27.620 --> 00:02:31.590 things to get to, today was more like, hey girls 00:02:31.590 --> 00:02:34.870 how are you doing and we spent some time just 00:02:34.870 --> 00:02:37.310 watching their behavior in the entrance of the 00:02:37.310 --> 00:02:41.229 hive and then cracked the lid open pulled a couple 00:02:41.229 --> 00:02:45.569 frames oh you girls are doing so great hey i 00:02:45.569 --> 00:02:47.750 need to get you another honey super be right 00:02:47.750 --> 00:02:52.909 back and a couple others hey you new queen you're 00:02:52.909 --> 00:02:55.629 doing fantastic well you're maybe a little slow 00:02:55.629 --> 00:03:00.360 but uh no rush take your time things are going 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:03.800 very well just go at your own pace I don't know 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:06.180 I probably sound a little crazy having this sort 00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:09.599 of conversation with the bees but it was a very 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.439 pleasant morning and please get out there and 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:14.520 do it yourself it's all about the love of the 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:22.139 bees I would like to welcome our very special 00:03:22.139 --> 00:03:24.580 guest today we're going out to Oregon in the 00:03:24.580 --> 00:03:28.259 US And we have Joy and Eric McEwen here. How 00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:30.960 are you two this morning? Very good. Very great 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:33.120 to be here with you. Yeah, give us a big wave. 00:03:33.300 --> 00:03:36.400 I like that. And if you don't mind, I'm going 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.060 to say this is a compliment. These are hippie 00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:42.379 beekeepers, and I think that is so awesome. And 00:03:42.379 --> 00:03:45.500 most of Oregon is probably that way. Anyway, 00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:50.319 there's my tangent to get us started with. But 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:54.009 we're going to jump in with. My gosh, we have 00:03:54.009 --> 00:03:57.050 so much to talk about everything from apitherapy 00:03:57.050 --> 00:04:00.129 to natural beekeeping and and that's where I 00:04:00.129 --> 00:04:03.550 want to start because One thing that interests 00:04:03.550 --> 00:04:09.990 me and you Eric was the term natural nest Beekeeping 00:04:09.990 --> 00:04:13.289 which I don't know that I had heard before explain 00:04:13.289 --> 00:04:17.870 what that means Well, it is a term that we coined 00:04:17.870 --> 00:04:22.370 as an attempt to encompass our style of beekeeping. 00:04:22.910 --> 00:04:25.350 And so we really meant it to just sort of be 00:04:25.350 --> 00:04:29.110 an umbrella term that encompasses a whole suite 00:04:29.110 --> 00:04:32.850 of tenants of best management practices, if you 00:04:32.850 --> 00:04:35.829 will. We're the first to say that we're a work 00:04:35.829 --> 00:04:39.250 in progress. So we set the bar high and then 00:04:39.250 --> 00:04:42.269 we aim to attain it. And so many of the tenants 00:04:42.269 --> 00:04:44.149 of naturalness beekeeping are things that we're 00:04:44.149 --> 00:04:46.730 still still integrating into our operation. I 00:04:46.730 --> 00:04:50.220 guess it all starts with place. And it starts 00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:53.399 with the hive. So it's going to mean organic 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:55.959 management practices. It's going to mean pristine 00:04:55.959 --> 00:04:58.860 locations. It's going to mean avoiding intensive 00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:01.980 agriculture. And then moving inward, it's going 00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:05.620 to mean a hive that is comprised of natural materials, 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:10.839 no plastics, no paint. So, you know, wood, wax. 00:05:11.259 --> 00:05:14.199 In our case, we use a natural sealant that we 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:17.829 make for our beehives out of beeswax, raw. linseed 00:05:17.829 --> 00:05:20.689 oil and pine rosin. It's a concern for the conditions 00:05:20.689 --> 00:05:22.949 that the bees are living in, in order to ensure 00:05:22.949 --> 00:05:25.649 an utmost purity of the bee products. And that 00:05:25.649 --> 00:05:28.709 overlaps into, you know, some of our discussion 00:05:28.709 --> 00:05:31.230 of medicinal, of the production of medicinal 00:05:31.230 --> 00:05:34.550 quality hive products. And so setting the stage 00:05:34.550 --> 00:05:37.779 for producing products like that. And then it's 00:05:37.779 --> 00:05:41.000 going to move into how we manage the bees, the 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.000 ways in which we interact with the bees and, 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:44.600 and some of the internal architecture of the 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:47.819 hive. So we're a proponent of foundationless 00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:51.920 brood nests and we use modified frames to give 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:55.399 us the opportunity to. adhere to biodynamic standards 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:59.079 in regard to the brood nest, having foundationless 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:01.319 brood nests that are of a size and shape that 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:04.300 allows the bees to have a natural organization 00:06:04.300 --> 00:06:07.120 to the brood nest that is uninterrupted by frame 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.220 parts, for instance. And then it's going to involve 00:06:10.220 --> 00:06:13.660 our practices, including queen rearing. So avoiding 00:06:13.660 --> 00:06:17.680 of the grafting procedure and kind of a returning 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.540 of authority to the bees with regards to the 00:06:20.540 --> 00:06:23.680 rearing of queens. And for us, that means In 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.459 hive queen rearing, queens being reared by their 00:06:26.459 --> 00:06:30.319 sisters from eggs laid by their mothers. I'm 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.620 hearing let bees be bees. Exactly. Let's quit 00:06:33.620 --> 00:06:36.680 trying to make bees be what humans want them 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.519 to be. And then it would be the utilization of 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:43.220 integrated pest management practices for mite 00:06:43.220 --> 00:06:46.439 management. So a minimal interventionist mindset. 00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:48.500 What are some of those that you use? Because 00:06:48.500 --> 00:06:51.439 you also used the term organic earlier. And a 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:54.060 lot of people jump from there to the term that's 00:06:54.060 --> 00:06:56.259 very controversial. I don't mind bringing it 00:06:56.259 --> 00:06:59.720 up. Treatment free beekeeping. And just so everybody 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.980 knows, that doesn't mean ignore the bees and 00:07:02.980 --> 00:07:06.800 don't do anything. Tell us about your IPM philosophy. 00:07:07.220 --> 00:07:10.519 Well, I'm glad you bothered to make a distinguishment 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:13.639 between. Treatment free and what what joy and 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:15.839 i like to call and other people called do nothing 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:18.920 be keeping right with that's actually kind of 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.220 a tenant of our natural nest be keeping is that 00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:24.220 we are not do nothing be keepers right we are 00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:27.819 we are hands on but we we seek to minimize the 00:07:27.819 --> 00:07:31.000 amount of intervention that we do so for instance. 00:07:31.899 --> 00:07:34.019 Join i do not interrupt the procedure process 00:07:34.019 --> 00:07:37.800 when we find colony superseding we trust that 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:41.560 the colony is aware of a problem. whether or 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.399 not it's apparent to us and we leave the bees 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:46.720 to do that. But backing up to your question about 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.019 mite management and integrated pest management, 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:53.120 one of the things that we do is we employ brood 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:55.639 breaks. We'll employ those at multiple times 00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:00.740 a year in various ways. We also raise a lot of 00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:05.139 our new queens from eggs, from worker eggs, essentially 00:08:05.139 --> 00:08:07.660 as what we would call an emergency queen, a term 00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:10.240 that Joy and I don't really like. that in and 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:13.779 of itself adds several days to the queen rearing 00:08:13.779 --> 00:08:18.360 process and results in a more significant brood 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:21.600 break in the starter colony itself and we see 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:24.920 that translate into much lower levels of viable 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:28.139 mites in our new colonies each spring. We also 00:08:28.139 --> 00:08:30.779 utilize foundationless frames in our colonies 00:08:30.779 --> 00:08:33.720 and so because of that we get the production 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:36.360 of whole frames of drone brood. And then we will 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:38.879 transfer drone brood out of queen right over 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.399 wintered colonies in the springtime as a means 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:44.080 of mitigating mite levels. And it's fairly effective. 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:46.899 And we'll move those frames of drone brood into 00:08:46.899 --> 00:08:50.480 queenless nucleus colonies, mating nukes, if 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.340 you will, and thereby get the drones to, to where 00:08:54.340 --> 00:08:58.220 we want them. And also our room are transferring 00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:01.399 big proportions of mites out of our queen, right 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.230 over wintered colonies. And by utilizing. Those 00:09:05.230 --> 00:09:08.070 techniques by making divides and so we'll remove 00:09:08.070 --> 00:09:11.389 brood from our colonies two times in the spring 00:09:11.389 --> 00:09:14.350 We'll target drone brood in that process and 00:09:14.350 --> 00:09:16.690 we'll remove capped brood from our colonies and 00:09:16.690 --> 00:09:20.029 that enables us to avoid mite treatments typically 00:09:20.029 --> 00:09:25.389 from From about October until like late May or 00:09:25.389 --> 00:09:27.850 mid May Sometimes it doesn't work as well and 00:09:27.850 --> 00:09:29.710 we'll do a mite treatment in the spring earlier 00:09:29.710 --> 00:09:32.190 in the spring March or April but a lot of times 00:09:32.190 --> 00:09:36.370 we can go about six months without any use of 00:09:36.370 --> 00:09:39.350 any acaricides. And then we will utilize brood 00:09:39.350 --> 00:09:41.690 breaks. If we see a colony that's having mite 00:09:41.690 --> 00:09:45.669 stress, we will do queen -right divides where 00:09:45.669 --> 00:09:49.250 we'll pull the queen into a cavity of her own 00:09:49.250 --> 00:09:51.970 and we keep her overhead so we can keep track 00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:55.409 of her. We'll move the queen along with as little 00:09:55.409 --> 00:09:58.470 open brood as possible into a box of its own 00:09:58.470 --> 00:10:02.440 and move her overhead of the parent colony. leaving 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.120 the colony queenless. Occasionally, of course, 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:07.059 you're going to get the rearing of new queens 00:10:07.059 --> 00:10:08.559 in that process, but you're also going to get 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:11.639 a brood break. By the way, if we have some brand 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:13.980 new beekeepers listening or people just thinking 00:10:13.980 --> 00:10:16.419 about getting into it, I know we're speaking 00:10:16.419 --> 00:10:18.759 a bit of a foreign language today. Bear with 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:21.919 us, it's worth it. Even if it's helping plant 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:23.940 a seed of things that you're going to learn more 00:10:23.940 --> 00:10:26.940 about later on in your beekeeping journey. One 00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:29.659 of the things that you mentioned was the term 00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:33.450 the size and shape of the brood chamber. Give 00:10:33.450 --> 00:10:36.710 us an example of what that is in your apiary. 00:10:37.009 --> 00:10:39.029 Well, yeah, when we look at the natural organization 00:10:39.029 --> 00:10:42.049 of a colony, when we study like temperate colonies 00:10:42.049 --> 00:10:45.169 that are dormant in a non -reproductive state, 00:10:45.169 --> 00:10:48.370 you know, they're going to occupy a space inside 00:10:48.370 --> 00:10:51.309 the cavity. That's probably roughly a basketball 00:10:51.309 --> 00:10:55.870 size, 10 and a half inches, 11 inches somewhere 00:10:55.870 --> 00:10:58.269 in there. And then, you know, they're going to 00:10:58.269 --> 00:11:01.629 expand from that shape outward in the springtime. 00:11:01.789 --> 00:11:04.570 Joy and I like to talk about the thermodynamic 00:11:04.570 --> 00:11:08.549 nature of honeybees and how they really utilize 00:11:08.549 --> 00:11:12.009 the heat that they're producing as a super organism 00:11:12.009 --> 00:11:15.029 to do a lot of work for them. First and foremost, 00:11:15.169 --> 00:11:18.529 to incubate their brood. And second of all, to, 00:11:18.529 --> 00:11:22.269 to warm their food supply. So we're very much 00:11:22.269 --> 00:11:24.889 advocates of a temperate organization of a hive 00:11:24.889 --> 00:11:28.529 in a vertical orientation, which allows the nest 00:11:28.529 --> 00:11:32.259 heat to warm the the winter stores that are overhead 00:11:32.259 --> 00:11:35.600 of the colony. We are in agreement with Warray 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.679 that the Layen's hive is a beautiful hive, but 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:41.519 that they got it wrong in the overall configuration 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:46.100 of the hive by encouraging the honeybees to put 00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:48.799 their winter stores to the side of the cluster. 00:11:49.419 --> 00:11:53.120 You are reducing the ability of the bees to use 00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:55.379 their nest heat to warm their winter stores. 00:11:56.149 --> 00:11:59.330 So war a was one of the most eloquent people 00:11:59.330 --> 00:12:02.909 to advocate for a vertically oriented colony 00:12:02.909 --> 00:12:05.909 that then allows the nest heat to pre warm the 00:12:05.909 --> 00:12:07.990 honey that that the bees are going to move on 00:12:07.990 --> 00:12:10.629 in a vertical direction as the winter and spring 00:12:10.629 --> 00:12:14.009 goes on. So we're very much advocates of that. 00:12:14.350 --> 00:12:18.429 So while we use a Langstroth format, we are eight 00:12:18.429 --> 00:12:20.909 frame and we're trying to keep our colonies narrow 00:12:20.909 --> 00:12:23.210 and tall. And so backing up to your question 00:12:23.210 --> 00:12:28.190 about brood nest. If we utilize a frame that 00:12:28.190 --> 00:12:30.350 is not only foundationless, but also missing 00:12:30.350 --> 00:12:33.509 its bottom bar, you can grow out brood frames 00:12:33.509 --> 00:12:37.649 that then you can come along with another super 00:12:37.649 --> 00:12:41.129 or a hive body, as we say, and you can nadir 00:12:41.129 --> 00:12:43.549 or you can take that hive body and stick it underneath 00:12:43.549 --> 00:12:46.850 the existing brood nest. And then that encourages 00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:49.970 the bees to draw their brood combs in a downward 00:12:49.970 --> 00:12:52.649 direction. And you can end up with a brood frame 00:12:52.649 --> 00:12:56.149 that in our work, our research, we've come to 00:12:56.149 --> 00:12:58.970 the size of about 13 and a half inches as an 00:12:58.970 --> 00:13:02.549 ideal brood frame. And what that enables is the 00:13:02.549 --> 00:13:05.750 bees to have their brood nest in entirety on 00:13:05.750 --> 00:13:08.830 a frame that is uninterrupted and can encompass 00:13:08.830 --> 00:13:12.269 the entirety of the brood organization, the natural 00:13:12.269 --> 00:13:15.370 organization of brood, where the queen is laying 00:13:15.370 --> 00:13:19.220 her eggs in concentric spirals. in an uninterrupted 00:13:19.220 --> 00:13:21.759 way, and that even allows a little bit of space 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:25.379 for the peripheral storage of pollen, bee bread 00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:27.940 on the comb, and even a little bit of nectar. 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.860 We emphasize a little bit of nectar. Our original 00:13:30.860 --> 00:13:33.740 iteration of a hive like that, we used to run 00:13:33.740 --> 00:13:36.360 16 inch frames, and that allowed the bees to 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:39.220 put a pretty nice two to three inch layer of 00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:43.340 capped honey across the top of that frame. And 00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:46.440 that actually became a hindrance to our style 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:49.320 of beekeeping, which involves supering for honey 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:52.220 production. And with that two to three inch band 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:54.899 of capped honey, sometimes that would actually 00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:58.000 create a hindrance and it deterred the upward 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:00.279 movement for honey production. And we are commercial 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:02.799 beekeepers associated with producing food. So 00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:05.679 we want to encourage the bees to produce honey 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:08.309 in supers. And then, yeah, I just want to add 00:14:08.309 --> 00:14:10.649 to that by saying the other hindrance was just 00:14:10.649 --> 00:14:13.870 it was way too big for our family. Like we have 00:14:13.870 --> 00:14:16.470 three daughters and for me out in the hives, 00:14:16.769 --> 00:14:20.590 like these huge, huge brood nests are way too 00:14:20.590 --> 00:14:23.129 difficult for the beekeeper. And we feel like, 00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:25.250 you know, what's good for the bees is good for 00:14:25.250 --> 00:14:28.429 the beekeeper and vice versa. So I think that 00:14:28.429 --> 00:14:31.980 was one of the main hindrances was just. a workable 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:35.240 size for all of us. And then the other one is 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.000 just small colonies. Small colonies don't start 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.039 off in that natural basketball size and they 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.259 don't really appreciate all that extra space. 00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:45.860 These are definitely different things that we 00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:48.799 learned along the way. So to be able to start 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.159 them as more of it in a smaller, we use Western 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:55.539 Shallows box, right? To start them in one box 00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:58.080 that's a Western Shallow. And then when they 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.980 grow, we're actually knee -deering with an empty 00:15:00.980 --> 00:15:04.919 box. So that's how they're gaining some of their 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.600 length. Wow. How long have you been doing this? 00:15:08.299 --> 00:15:12.179 This is our 26th season beekeeping and beekeeping 00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:15.490 together. Congratulations. And how many hives 00:15:15.490 --> 00:15:18.669 do you have on an average year? Well, that number 00:15:18.669 --> 00:15:20.990 does vary. I think at the moment we have about 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:24.029 650 colonies. I haven't met a beekeeper yet that 00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:26.070 can tell me exactly how many hives they have. 00:15:26.370 --> 00:15:28.789 That's so normal. But when you get up into big 00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:31.470 numbers like that, that's even more so. I think 00:15:31.470 --> 00:15:34.950 we're about 665 if you pressed me. Well, and 00:15:34.950 --> 00:15:38.409 it's just a big range, you know? And it may be 00:15:38.409 --> 00:15:41.470 different tomorrow. That does lead into a tenant 00:15:41.470 --> 00:15:44.139 of natural nest beekeeping for us. as I mentioned, 00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:47.200 our natural queen rearing techniques means that 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:51.379 we don't cage queens and we never separate queens 00:15:51.379 --> 00:15:53.860 from the family that they were reared in. So 00:15:53.860 --> 00:15:56.940 our practices for hive management are different 00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.759 than a typical commercial beekeeper. And because 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:01.879 of that, our colony count goes up and down a 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.580 lot more than an average commercial beekeeper, 00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:07.519 because we're not rectifying queen problems by 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:10.620 just depositing a queen in a cage. We're actually 00:16:11.900 --> 00:16:14.460 either encouraging those bees to raise a new 00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:16.799 queen of their own by the transferring of brood 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:18.539 in the case where they're hopelessly queenless 00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:20.519 and don't have what they need to raise a queen 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:22.720 then we're going to fix them up with what they 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.419 need to raise a new queen or in the case where 00:16:25.419 --> 00:16:27.179 the colony is already so demoralized and the 00:16:27.179 --> 00:16:29.419 population has plummeted we're going to actually 00:16:29.419 --> 00:16:31.559 introduce a whole starter colony so we're going 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.179 to take a queen you know a nucleus colony where 00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:36.820 the queen is laying already surrounded with her 00:16:36.940 --> 00:16:39.019 her sisters and brood and everything. And we're 00:16:39.019 --> 00:16:41.860 going to introduce that. So, so we're utilizing 00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:44.059 a starter colony the same way someone else might 00:16:44.059 --> 00:16:46.360 use a queen in a cage. So because of that, our 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:49.139 colony count certainly fluctuates, you know, 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.000 midsummer. We go up through spring and then we 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.600 hit midsummer and then we start going down. Sure. 00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:56.899 All right. Let's shift gears. Oh, I'm sorry, 00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.259 Joy, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to share 00:16:59.259 --> 00:17:02.399 like one really nice thing about our range is 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.349 we go from Crescent City which is on the coast 00:17:05.349 --> 00:17:08.210 with about 100 inches of rain a year all the 00:17:08.210 --> 00:17:10.829 way over to Ashland. So this is kind of the range 00:17:10.829 --> 00:17:14.430 of our 650 hives where Ashland gets about 17 00:17:14.430 --> 00:17:17.730 inches of rain a year. And we have a lot of just 00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:21.170 really excellent beautiful bee yards. Some of 00:17:21.170 --> 00:17:24.730 our bee yards are like the certified organic 00:17:24.730 --> 00:17:29.509 regenerative farms, herb farm, Oshala farm, Pacific 00:17:29.509 --> 00:17:32.650 botanicals. Like those together are maybe even 00:17:32.809 --> 00:17:36.430 like 500 acres of certified organic regenerative 00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:39.710 medicinal herbs. So we work with some really 00:17:39.710 --> 00:17:44.289 wonderful farms, along with even Alexander Family 00:17:44.289 --> 00:17:47.309 Farm, which is on the coast. And they won National 00:17:47.309 --> 00:17:50.430 Organic Farmer of the Year. Quick break to discuss 00:17:50.430 --> 00:17:53.750 what just might be on your mind right now. Come 00:17:53.750 --> 00:17:56.970 on, admit it. You're imagining the upcoming honey 00:17:56.970 --> 00:17:59.509 harvest. because no matter where you live in 00:17:59.509 --> 00:18:02.130 the world it's either here now or it will be 00:18:02.130 --> 00:18:05.329 in the near future and man lake is making it 00:18:05.329 --> 00:18:08.509 so easy to plan for click on over to man lake's 00:18:08.509 --> 00:18:12.210 website for an amazing selection of extractors 00:18:12.210 --> 00:18:16.650 filters bottling supplies uncapping knives supplies 00:18:16.650 --> 00:18:20.460 for comb honey everything and i mean everything 00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.440 you'll need. But if you aren't there quite yet 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.599 and the honey flows right around the corner, 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:29.279 make sure you have extra supers on hand. You 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.660 never can have too many or be too prepared. And 00:18:32.660 --> 00:18:35.460 right now Man Lake is offering podcast listeners 00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:41.119 $10 off your next order. Just enter code MLBLove10 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:44.920 at checkout. That's manlakeltd .com. Discount 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:50.049 code MLBLove10. And that climb, if you will, 00:18:50.349 --> 00:18:53.329 from east to west also goes from roughly sea 00:18:53.329 --> 00:18:57.450 level to like 2 ,200 feet in elevation. So it's 00:18:57.450 --> 00:19:00.029 nice being mom and pop beekeepers. It's just 00:19:00.029 --> 00:19:02.930 us taking care of this business. And so you can't 00:19:02.930 --> 00:19:05.029 be in two places at once. And we're, we're able 00:19:05.029 --> 00:19:08.990 to sort of manage our job list, our task list 00:19:08.990 --> 00:19:12.619 with regarding to. making honey or tending bees 00:19:12.619 --> 00:19:15.119 or applying my treatments or whatever we're often 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:18.799 able to prioritize all of our activities on these 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:23.079 elevational longitudinal climbs so that we can 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:24.599 always sort of be in the right spot at the right 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.799 time. We can follow the bloom. As long as we're 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:29.900 on that topic let's talk about your business 00:19:29.900 --> 00:19:31.779 a little bit if you don't mind. Not at all. You 00:19:31.779 --> 00:19:33.940 don't have to give me any specific numbers or 00:19:33.940 --> 00:19:36.579 anything like that that is uncomfortable but 00:19:36.579 --> 00:19:39.319 the majority of the profit from your business 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:43.740 is it Honey, is it selling bees? Is it? What 00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:46.359 is it? Because I assume you're not going out 00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:49.660 and doing pollination all over the place. Actually, 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:52.160 to clarify, we still do one pollination event 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.259 in California for the almonds, and that has been 00:19:54.259 --> 00:19:59.440 a big part of financing our creative endeavors. 00:19:59.859 --> 00:20:02.339 As you know, beekeeping, like all forms of farming, 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:05.799 is Intensive it's equipment intensive. It's it's 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:08.839 capital intensive and we are not multi -generational 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:11.220 beekeepers We started we started from nothing 00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:14.539 Yeah, we're first gen and so all of these lofty 00:20:14.539 --> 00:20:17.940 ideas of how we wanted to create a bee business 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.079 We really had to figure out how to capitalize 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.740 them And so we are happy to report that almond 00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:27.019 pollination is well under 50 % of our income 00:20:27.019 --> 00:20:31.740 and currently honey is competing with pollination 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:35.079 for for taking first place as our primary source 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.579 of income. And that is our goal is to create 00:20:37.579 --> 00:20:41.579 a diversified business that is primarily concerned 00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:44.200 with B products. And so I'm happy to report B 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:47.660 products collectively as a category is the majority 00:20:47.660 --> 00:20:51.509 of our income. And those include a candle -making 00:20:51.509 --> 00:20:54.289 business, a whole line of hive medicines that 00:20:54.289 --> 00:20:57.529 we make that involve propolis and honey as a 00:20:57.529 --> 00:21:00.390 solvent for herbal extracts. We make a beverage 00:21:00.390 --> 00:21:02.849 called jun, which is a honey -based kombucha. 00:21:03.569 --> 00:21:06.150 We sell a lot of that, especially at farmers 00:21:06.150 --> 00:21:08.670 markets and events. Yeah, it's a really easy 00:21:08.670 --> 00:21:10.789 way to get people into the booth is giving them 00:21:10.789 --> 00:21:13.430 samples of this jun. They just love it. Does 00:21:13.430 --> 00:21:16.380 it taste better than regular kombucha? which 00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:19.359 I have a hard time with. We convert kombucha 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:22.400 beverage drinkers on the daily. I'm not kidding. 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:25.059 I hand out samples at Farmer's Market and I say, 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:28.140 when they're not familiar with June, I say, are 00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:30.140 you familiar with kombucha? And then they make 00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:32.700 this face. They're like, oh, not for me. And 00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:34.759 I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Just try a 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.900 little tip. Then they are lifetime customers. 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.680 There's something about the taste too, like it's 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:43.619 really alive. A lot of times it's because we're 00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:46.180 using all these herbs that we even polemate for 00:21:46.180 --> 00:21:49.079 from around here. But just the fact that we are 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.220 adding raw honey to it, they're really, really 00:21:52.220 --> 00:21:55.180 this just like aliveness to it, this activating 00:21:55.180 --> 00:21:57.779 part of it. It tastes great. And really a low 00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:00.400 carbon footprint too. Like when you really think 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.980 about, you know, kombucha and where it's coming 00:22:03.980 --> 00:22:07.480 from, the ingredients are mostly sugar. and glass 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.799 packaging compared to live honey and probiotics 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.099 with prebiotics because it has honey right out 00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:16.880 of a keg. We pour it as a dispenser and sometimes 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.920 people bring their own cups. Love it. I want 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.319 to shift gears before we run out of time. Oh 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.940 yeah. We have talked about apitherapy a lot on 00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:30.400 this show I'm sure a lot more than other beekeeping 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:33.700 podcasts and YouTube shows and stuff like that 00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:36.559 But no, that's probably just because it's something 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.319 that I'm super interested in and so we're gonna 00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:42.700 do a little bit of that but I want to start with 00:22:42.700 --> 00:22:45.680 the integration with that and your beekeeping 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.660 because as you talked about doing your beekeeping 00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:52.640 as organic as possible I assume that when you 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.380 talk about medicinal qualities of hive products, 00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:59.660 if it were me and I'm putting something in my 00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:02.740 body or on my body, I want it to be as organic 00:23:02.740 --> 00:23:06.920 as possible. Tell us how you have a good balance 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:09.400 of those two things or how they work together, 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:12.200 I should say. Well, I guess first I just want 00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:14.279 to point out what you were saying is just the 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:18.630 integration and One of our big proponents in 00:23:18.630 --> 00:23:22.089 all of this is sharing with folks that in teaching 00:23:22.089 --> 00:23:24.730 natural beekeeping and apotherapy, I like to 00:23:24.730 --> 00:23:27.049 teach them together because I want people to 00:23:27.049 --> 00:23:30.089 really know and understand that apotherapy is 00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:33.029 a part of beekeeping. and that beekeeping is 00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:37.170 a part of apotherapy itself. Getting to even 00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:39.890 like normalize this a little bit in the beekeeping 00:23:39.890 --> 00:23:42.289 community, I really appreciate that you're bringing 00:23:42.289 --> 00:23:44.829 all this to your podcast because I want more 00:23:44.829 --> 00:23:47.109 and more beekeepers to know that we go back like 00:23:47.109 --> 00:23:51.650 this is 4 ,000 year, 5 ,000 year history of beekeepers 00:23:51.650 --> 00:23:54.950 really integrating that these hive medicines 00:23:54.950 --> 00:23:58.700 are part of our our livelihood, our passions, 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:01.339 what we're doing on the day to day. Our lifestyle. 00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:03.900 Yeah. And for them to really get to understand 00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:06.339 that this is part of what I think the bees are 00:24:06.339 --> 00:24:09.759 even asking of you. So for us, what are some 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:13.559 of the ways that we want to be a beekeeper and 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:17.279 then both be making these medicinal products? 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.420 That would then kind of go right into like natural 00:24:20.420 --> 00:24:23.859 beekeeping. One little example we could I could 00:24:23.859 --> 00:24:27.799 start off by sharing is how we harvest propolis 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:31.940 So like we would use stainless steel tools. We 00:24:31.940 --> 00:24:35.319 don't use any paint whatsoever in any of our 00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:38.259 boxes That would be something that would be very 00:24:38.259 --> 00:24:41.720 important for any scope of organics And furthermore, 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:43.859 we don't use we don't use plastic pollen traps 00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:46.319 because we think of propolis as a very strong 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.579 substance We don't want it in contact with plastic 00:24:48.579 --> 00:24:51.960 before it's being made into medicine. So or paint. 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:54.440 I mean, if it's going to go in your body, sure. 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.740 Yeah, exactly. And just really quick, just so 00:24:57.740 --> 00:24:59.920 that everyone doesn't think that we're purists, 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.700 as I said at the outset, we set the bar high 00:25:02.700 --> 00:25:06.039 and then we attain it over time. And so every 00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:09.359 one of these goals takes time. Right. So out 00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:12.819 of our we have about 2500 boxes in the operation. 00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:16.519 And I'm pretty sure we still have about 100 painted 00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:21.069 boxes. And so We're not perfect. We're working 00:25:21.069 --> 00:25:23.670 towards it. And so what do we do to mitigate 00:25:23.670 --> 00:25:25.670 those imperfections? Of course, for starters, 00:25:25.829 --> 00:25:29.200 we don't harvest propolis from anywhere. in contact 00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:31.240 with a painted box. We're working towards that. 00:25:31.539 --> 00:25:34.279 We also have a plastic free operation. And yet 00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:36.819 I'm pretty sure out of the 20 ,000 frames in 00:25:36.819 --> 00:25:39.680 our operation that we have a few hundred plastic 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:42.039 frames in there still. And I could tell the story 00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:44.599 of why, but more importantly, we're, we're trying 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:46.539 to take those frames out of our hives. We're 00:25:46.539 --> 00:25:49.720 trying to get rid of them, but we're also pragmatic. 00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:52.759 If a frame is covered in a frame of brood, I'm 00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:55.599 not going to. I'm not going to dispose of the 00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:57.940 brood in order to get rid of the plastic. So 00:25:57.940 --> 00:25:59.880 we're moving that plastic to the periphery of 00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:01.880 the boxes. We're moving them up into our supers. 00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:04.259 And when they end up in the honey house, they're 00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:06.359 out of here. We're not perfect. We don't have 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:09.079 lawyers listening in. You don't need the disclaimers. 00:26:09.470 --> 00:26:11.910 But I like that you mentioned it because a lot 00:26:11.910 --> 00:26:14.509 of us are trying to work towards that. Exactly. 00:26:14.630 --> 00:26:17.069 And it doesn't have to be all or nothing. We 00:26:17.069 --> 00:26:19.490 can work in that direction. And that's exactly 00:26:19.490 --> 00:26:22.529 how do you harvest your propolis? Is it through 00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:25.049 some kind of a trap? Are you scraping it off 00:26:25.049 --> 00:26:27.829 boxes? What are you doing? Stainless tools by 00:26:27.829 --> 00:26:30.410 hand and targeting really only the highest quality 00:26:30.410 --> 00:26:33.349 propolis in the hive. So colonies bring in one 00:26:33.349 --> 00:26:36.410 to 200 grams of propolis a year, typically. And 00:26:36.410 --> 00:26:39.880 when we're doing an average inspection, We might 00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.579 get a few grams of propolis out of a colony. 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:45.460 Sometimes we'll have colonies that are propolis 00:26:45.460 --> 00:26:48.460 hoarders that will get as much as an ounce out 00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:51.640 of them, but that's not common to two to five, 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:54.579 maybe 10 grams of propolis as much as we might 00:26:54.579 --> 00:26:57.259 harvest. And we're really looking for high resin 00:26:57.259 --> 00:27:00.279 content. So, you know, as, as your listeners 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:03.299 probably are aware, bees blend propolis with 00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:07.519 wax at varying levels based on their different. 00:27:07.609 --> 00:27:11.049 uses of that propolis and we're really working 00:27:11.049 --> 00:27:14.829 hard to find these high resin propolis's resin 00:27:14.829 --> 00:27:17.670 contents of you know 70 plus percent so fairly 00:27:17.670 --> 00:27:21.410 pure propolis as as you might see it on the corbicula 00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:23.650 of a propolis harvester. Just hand harvesting 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:25.750 with stainless tools storing it in stainless 00:27:25.750 --> 00:27:29.069 containers and then extracting it in organic 00:27:29.069 --> 00:27:31.140 ethanol. And for those that don't know, when 00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:34.180 we talk apotherapy, we're not just talking about 00:27:34.180 --> 00:27:36.779 bee venom therapy. We're talking about all the 00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:39.799 medicinal things from the hive. That's why propolis 00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:42.980 comes in and pollen and royal jelly and honey 00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:45.240 itself. And I'm sure I'm leaving some things 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.720 out. But I want to ask you real quick, what are 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:51.299 you doing with propolis? Are you making tinctures 00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:55.359 out of it or stabs or what? All the above. We've 00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:59.470 had a really popular propolis tincture. for quite 00:27:59.470 --> 00:28:03.210 some time and then just this past year we developed 00:28:03.210 --> 00:28:06.650 Problis plus a little bit of honey of a throat 00:28:06.650 --> 00:28:10.049 spray and we have that just kind of original 00:28:10.049 --> 00:28:13.980 and then also with some eucalyptus as well. and 00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:17.519 they are going really just like showstoppers 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:20.700 at the farmers market. With that, just the spray, 00:28:21.059 --> 00:28:24.160 it makes it just last a really long time. It 00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:29.079 has a cute label. And then we're doing more propolis 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:33.680 salves as well. Even a propolis enriched honey. 00:28:34.420 --> 00:28:36.920 So for those of you who are making propolis medicine 00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:40.109 with your propolis, I'll just say propolis is 00:28:40.109 --> 00:28:42.829 it not an easy substance to handle and it's not 00:28:42.829 --> 00:28:45.589 a very easy substance to extract so if you look 00:28:45.589 --> 00:28:48.670 at the marketplace there's actually a lot of 00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:50.329 i don't want to be too negative but there's a 00:28:50.329 --> 00:28:53.170 lot of mediocre. Propolis products on the market 00:28:53.170 --> 00:28:55.910 out there or even poor quality propolis products 00:28:55.910 --> 00:28:58.710 that are really sort of riding on the word propolis 00:28:58.710 --> 00:29:00.730 But if you look at the other ingredients you 00:29:00.730 --> 00:29:03.130 look at the methodologies used to make them They're 00:29:03.130 --> 00:29:06.509 not really resulting in a very high concentrated 00:29:06.509 --> 00:29:08.990 level of propolis constituents in the final product 00:29:08.990 --> 00:29:12.700 and that is giving a bad name to propolis because 00:29:12.700 --> 00:29:15.160 then these products don't have the medical effectiveness 00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:17.500 that people might hope or they're not going to 00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:19.500 get the tonic qualities that they want out of 00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:22.039 them. And so I encourage anyone who's making 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:25.420 propolis to look into the finer chemistry of 00:29:25.420 --> 00:29:28.039 propolis and understand some of the constraints 00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:29.779 of working with it so that you can make a really 00:29:29.779 --> 00:29:31.890 high quality medicine. Or if somebody's just 00:29:31.890 --> 00:29:33.509 buying it, how do they know they're getting a 00:29:33.509 --> 00:29:36.730 good one? For starters, propolis is a very insoluble 00:29:36.730 --> 00:29:40.130 substance, and really most solvents like honey, 00:29:40.250 --> 00:29:43.250 vinegar, water, are really not going to make 00:29:43.250 --> 00:29:46.650 a good propolis extract. I could give a few exceptions 00:29:46.650 --> 00:29:49.230 to that, but basically really the best solvent 00:29:49.230 --> 00:29:53.450 for propolis resin is ethanol, and really it 00:29:53.450 --> 00:29:56.619 even varies quite a lot. by strength of ethanol 00:29:56.619 --> 00:29:59.279 most research would say that you are wasting 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.859 your time at anything under 140 proof or 70 % 00:30:02.859 --> 00:30:05.579 and I would suggest that that's Still probably 00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:07.819 a little low if you look at products out there. 00:30:07.819 --> 00:30:08.980 You're gonna find a lot of them are not made 00:30:08.980 --> 00:30:11.519 at that concentration So what do you make yours 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:16.180 out of? 80 % organic ethanol minimum and put 00:30:16.180 --> 00:30:19.980 how much propolis per how much of the alcohol? 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:24.019 Somewhere between a one to ten and a one to five 00:30:24.019 --> 00:30:27.700 weight weight tincture And then let it sit for 00:30:27.700 --> 00:30:30.279 what two to four weeks Yeah, three three weeks 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.259 is what we usually aim for you can make a pretty 00:30:33.259 --> 00:30:36.200 good medicine in two weeks But we like to be 00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:38.799 thorough. I want to just interject something 00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:42.200 to sort of answer my own question I think it's 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:46.619 also like buying honey Get to know your beekeeper 00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:50.259 If you're at a farmer's market and somebody has 00:30:50.259 --> 00:30:53.079 a propolis tincture or something else with propolis, 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:57.160 great, talk to them. Find out how are the bees 00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.160 kept. Ask lots of questions. You're going to 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.339 learn a lot more that way than just reading somebody's 00:31:03.339 --> 00:31:06.480 label online. I also think like the nose knows, 00:31:06.700 --> 00:31:08.759 you know, like if you're able to try it, ours, 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:11.299 it's, it's actually really obvious. If you try 00:31:11.299 --> 00:31:14.109 ours compared to one of these other ones. you're 00:31:14.109 --> 00:31:16.089 gonna get it, that you're like, ah, this one 00:31:16.089 --> 00:31:18.710 is way better, this is more potent, this is more 00:31:18.710 --> 00:31:21.910 pure. It becomes obvious too, so. All right, 00:31:22.009 --> 00:31:25.190 before we run out of time, Joy, let's talk for 00:31:25.190 --> 00:31:28.190 a minute about B -venom therapy. Wonderful. Because 00:31:28.190 --> 00:31:30.650 it's something that you do and you have clients 00:31:30.650 --> 00:31:33.849 that you help with this. Yeah. Give us an idea, 00:31:34.150 --> 00:31:37.029 what are they coming to you for? So I've had 00:31:37.029 --> 00:31:42.250 a practice, it's been about... 15, 16 years really 00:31:42.250 --> 00:31:45.809 kind of just got started with farm animals, farm 00:31:45.809 --> 00:31:49.829 workers, our family, our kids, through some work 00:31:49.829 --> 00:31:53.150 with them, going to some conferences at the American 00:31:53.150 --> 00:31:56.710 Apotherapies Society and hearing from other apotherapists 00:31:56.710 --> 00:32:00.289 of like how to really just get started of wanting 00:32:00.289 --> 00:32:03.450 to really with just this simple question of just 00:32:03.450 --> 00:32:07.910 wanting to help people. and knowing about the 00:32:07.910 --> 00:32:11.789 products or about BeeVenom and how well it works 00:32:11.789 --> 00:32:15.089 for so many different types of people, I think 00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:17.509 that just kind of compelled me to just start 00:32:17.509 --> 00:32:21.529 trying, right? So, started small of like helping 00:32:21.529 --> 00:32:23.950 people. I mean, arthritis is a really easy one 00:32:23.950 --> 00:32:26.650 to help people with. And then I think through 00:32:26.650 --> 00:32:29.369 all these years, it's just kind of building stories. 00:32:29.910 --> 00:32:33.029 like building people's actual stories of like, 00:32:33.130 --> 00:32:35.569 okay, does this work? Does this not work? Does 00:32:35.569 --> 00:32:37.730 it work for some people? It doesn't work for 00:32:37.730 --> 00:32:40.549 other people. And for me to just be able to share 00:32:40.549 --> 00:32:43.430 like the I statements of like, this is what I've 00:32:43.430 --> 00:32:45.490 seen. This is the story I've helped somebody 00:32:45.490 --> 00:32:48.950 with. It's hard to dispute someone else's story. 00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:52.619 as true or false or why this helps them in such 00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:55.519 significant ways. It really differs for so many 00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.579 different people. It's a panacea. I can't even, 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.099 I mean, I really help people in so many different 00:33:01.099 --> 00:33:05.359 ways. I would say arthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. 00:33:05.619 --> 00:33:08.660 Chronic pain is a real big one. I've helped a 00:33:08.660 --> 00:33:13.019 lot of people with Lyme's disease, Parkinson's, 00:33:13.059 --> 00:33:16.640 even preventative Parkinson's. Those would probably 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:20.500 be some of the big ones, but I also end up working 00:33:20.500 --> 00:33:22.859 with people once I get to know them more and 00:33:22.859 --> 00:33:25.539 they get to know B -venom more, their body becomes 00:33:25.539 --> 00:33:29.220 more adaptive to it. Then we start also working 00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:33.140 on things like chronic fatigue syndrome and depression. 00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:36.059 And sometimes we even work with various like 00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:39.559 meridian or acupuncture points specifically for 00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.079 those ailments. Generally in apotherapy or B 00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.779 -venom therapy, we're working with either like 00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:48.619 kind of trigger points. or kind of a typical 00:33:48.619 --> 00:33:51.500 like a pain center where you're either like attacking 00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:54.960 the dragon or surrounding the dragon but sometimes 00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.200 we kind of also go to some of the like the farther 00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:02.900 reaching points as well cancer yeah cancer as 00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:05.039 well yeah if somebody just wants some general 00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:08.400 information on Hey, I either want to just learn 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.860 more about it or maybe they're a beekeeper and 00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:13.579 they want to get some full training into it. 00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:15.739 Where should they go? I'm not sure if you're 00:34:15.739 --> 00:34:18.760 aware. We actually started this whole apotherapy 00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:22.420 certification course. We just finished the first 00:34:22.420 --> 00:34:26.760 full cohort. We did it in four months and we 00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.619 graduated about 65 students. Eric and I do that 00:34:29.619 --> 00:34:33.380 course together. It's on KJabi, so most of all 00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:36.889 the lessons are all pre -recorded. And it's a 00:34:36.889 --> 00:34:41.989 very extensive, thorough course. So each week 00:34:41.989 --> 00:34:45.650 the students are getting so much information. 00:34:46.010 --> 00:34:47.849 And kind of also what you were sharing about 00:34:47.849 --> 00:34:50.469 like that apotherapy isn't just B -venom therapy. 00:34:50.570 --> 00:34:53.449 We actually do it on purpose that the first half 00:34:53.449 --> 00:34:56.570 of the course is going into all the other products 00:34:56.570 --> 00:34:58.789 of the high -vis medicine because that truly 00:34:58.789 --> 00:35:02.610 is apotherapy. And being an apotherapist is to 00:35:02.610 --> 00:35:06.449 be able to talk. to the clients about integrating 00:35:06.449 --> 00:35:09.010 all these other medicines, not just bee venom 00:35:09.010 --> 00:35:11.789 therapy. So as an apotherapist, I actually take 00:35:11.789 --> 00:35:15.690 that very seriously. And as we get started together, 00:35:15.690 --> 00:35:18.789 it really is about like integrating honey. The 00:35:18.789 --> 00:35:21.429 more you integrate honey, your body's more even 00:35:21.429 --> 00:35:24.010 getting microdoses of the bee venom, but you're 00:35:24.010 --> 00:35:25.849 getting to know bees, you're getting to know 00:35:25.849 --> 00:35:28.650 beekeepers and all of that starts to become part 00:35:28.650 --> 00:35:31.679 of like your healing process. And by the way, 00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.980 you guys are at digginliving .com. I'll stick 00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:37.760 that down in the show notes. You had also mentioned 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.960 earlier the American Apotherapy. Is it association 00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:44.599 or society? Society. Society. There's a global 00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.599 organization as well. I'm on the International 00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:51.739 Federation of Apotherapists, which is that international 00:35:51.739 --> 00:35:55.460 board where Dr. Steffen is the head president 00:35:55.460 --> 00:35:58.480 of that board and I enjoy working with him and 00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:01.559 all the other. It's a wonderful board. And then 00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:05.519 I am the chair, the coordinator of the Medicinal 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.000 Beekeeping Commission on the International Federation 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:12.679 of Apotherapy. And then I authored the guidelines 00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.739 in that way as well. Fantastic. All right. We've 00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:18.440 got a couple of minutes left. I want to hear 00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:21.639 a fun, wild and crazy beekeeping story or two 00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:25.150 from you guys. This just goes way back, but it 00:36:25.150 --> 00:36:27.829 does seem to be kind of wild and crazy in that 00:36:27.829 --> 00:36:30.869 when we first came from mid -state Corvallis 00:36:30.869 --> 00:36:33.150 area and we moved down to southern Oregon, our 00:36:33.150 --> 00:36:36.050 beekeeping business was growing. We were already 00:36:36.050 --> 00:36:39.489 like organic eaters, organic farmers, and so 00:36:39.489 --> 00:36:43.070 we wanted to become organic beekeepers. And so 00:36:43.070 --> 00:36:45.949 we showed up at that local meeting and we told 00:36:45.949 --> 00:36:48.699 these guys which was like a bunch of really, 00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:51.960 really a lot older gentlemen. And it was like 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:54.380 a dark room. I don't know. It should have been 00:36:54.380 --> 00:36:57.579 full of smoke. It was just. Yeah. And I was like, 00:36:57.659 --> 00:37:00.099 had my little baby. I was like nursing my my 00:37:00.099 --> 00:37:03.179 oldest daughter is now 22. I remember just telling 00:37:03.179 --> 00:37:06.500 them that we're we're organic beekeepers. And 00:37:06.500 --> 00:37:09.460 there was like arms flying. They're like, that's 00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:11.760 not possible. That's not possible. You can't 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.340 do that. And so I guess that is just my wild 00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:16.719 and crazy story to just tell you it is possible. 00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:19.900 You can do it. I love people that stir the pot. 00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:23.280 That's awesome. All right, Eric. OK, I was thinking 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:25.219 about it. I'll just go with the one that popped 00:37:25.219 --> 00:37:29.119 into my head. There was this time that we were. 00:37:29.369 --> 00:37:31.550 Just just had just moved to southern oregon. 00:37:31.650 --> 00:37:34.170 Maybe had been there a couple years And so we 00:37:34.170 --> 00:37:36.329 were still hungry enough for bee colonies that 00:37:36.329 --> 00:37:39.489 losing swarms just really bothered me So I saw 00:37:39.489 --> 00:37:42.469 a swarm had gone up into this young alder tree 00:37:42.469 --> 00:37:47.570 about 35 40 feet up and And I had a witness for 00:37:47.570 --> 00:37:50.210 this I walked out there and the alder was only 00:37:50.210 --> 00:37:52.349 about this big and it was kind of Getting shaded 00:37:52.349 --> 00:37:54.650 out by these bigger cottonwoods. And so I decided 00:37:54.650 --> 00:37:58.440 you know what? I'm gonna cut it down And so I 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.539 took a Rubbermaid tote and I walked out to the 00:38:01.539 --> 00:38:03.920 base of the tree and I looked up at how far it 00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:06.559 was, guessed how high it was. And then I just 00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:09.739 paced out into this meadow, set the Rubbermaid 00:38:09.739 --> 00:38:12.400 down, walked over with my chainsaw and dropped 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:16.900 the Alder and it got perfect direct hit. It landed 00:38:16.900 --> 00:38:21.260 the cluster. The swarm went right into the Rubbermaid. 00:38:21.340 --> 00:38:23.739 We're gonna watch this happen. We're actually 00:38:23.739 --> 00:38:30.079 hillbilly hippies and I got I Got the swarm to 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:32.440 land perfectly in the Rubbermaid ran over put 00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:35.079 a lid on it and that that is where the good news 00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:38.980 ends because I did take the high I was very Imagine 00:38:38.980 --> 00:38:41.820 I was very proud of myself and I caught the swarm 00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:45.420 and I deposited them in a hive and Then came 00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:47.159 and checked on them the following morning and 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:49.920 they had absconded. They were done with me. They 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.539 were not gonna put up with being dropped 40 feet 00:38:52.539 --> 00:38:55.300 out of a hive. But I will say, I think that's 00:38:55.300 --> 00:38:57.920 probably one out of only maybe a couple hives 00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.739 that's ever absconded on us in 26 years. So that 00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:05.139 is incredible that you can look at it, guess 00:39:05.139 --> 00:39:08.019 the height, step it out and have it hit. And 00:39:08.019 --> 00:39:10.019 I'm going to tease you with one last thing. And 00:39:10.019 --> 00:39:12.440 that is far as I know, those rubber made containers 00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:19.070 are made out of plastic. Nice. It's true. You 00:39:19.070 --> 00:39:21.050 know what? We have a couple other pieces of plastic 00:39:21.050 --> 00:39:23.510 in the operation and I will not rest until we 00:39:23.510 --> 00:39:26.130 get rid of them. All right. Hey, it's been fun, 00:39:26.210 --> 00:39:28.369 you guys. We are going to do it again sometime 00:39:28.369 --> 00:39:31.889 in the not too distant future. That's Joy and 00:39:31.889 --> 00:39:34.050 Eric McHugh. And thanks for being with me today. 00:39:34.369 --> 00:39:39.489 Yeah, great to be here. Thank you. Thanks again 00:39:39.489 --> 00:39:42.030 for joining us on Be Love, Be Keeping presented 00:39:42.030 --> 00:39:45.170 by Man Lake. Another big thank you goes to Vita 00:39:45.170 --> 00:39:48.389 B Health for their support. Vita's Varroa Control 00:39:48.389 --> 00:39:51.989 Ranger products includes Epistan, Epigard, and 00:39:51.989 --> 00:39:56.190 now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic Acid Strips. 00:39:56.469 --> 00:39:58.730 Hey thanks a lot guys. And if you haven't yet, 00:39:59.030 --> 00:40:01.349 please subscribe to and follow the show, tell 00:40:01.349 --> 00:40:04.110 your friends about it, and click on over to BeLoveBeKeeping 00:40:04.110 --> 00:40:07.809 .com to sign up for our free newsletter. If you 00:40:07.809 --> 00:40:10.710 have a guest suggestion, or topic you'd like 00:40:10.710 --> 00:40:13.510 discussed on the show, shoot me an email, eric 00:40:13.510 --> 00:40:16.389 at be love beekeeping dot com. And remember, 00:40:16.489 --> 00:40:19.070 if you're not just in it for the honey or the 00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:21.690 money, you're in it for the love. See you next 00:40:21.690 --> 00:40:22.070 week.