in a world brimming with complexity few creatures
embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless
precision she dances from bloom to bloom each
motion guided by millennia upon millennia of
instinct each act in service to the whole and
then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards
of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,
part poet, they move along their hives with the
efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to
the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,
and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the
Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing
like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their
journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love, Be Keeping
presented by our great friends over at Man Lake.
By the way, if you haven't yet, please subscribe
to and follow the show, tell your friends about
it, and click on over to BeLoveBeekeeping .com
to sign up for our free newsletter. Today's guest
is a really fun and super knowledgeable beekeeper
from Ohio. We'll be discussing a range of topics,
everything from apotherapy, including a how -to
on bee venom therapy, propolis, swarm removals,
and drone races. drone races. I very much appreciate
you putting up with my voice today. I promise
you won't catch anything from listening. We could
have waited a few days until it cleared up, but
hey, we promised a new episode every Thursday
and we deliver a new episode every Thursday.
So here we go. I'd like to welcome, warm welcome
to our very special guest today, Emily Mueller.
How are you today, Emily? Good, thank you very
much for having me. I really appreciate it. We
have so much to talk about and so I'm gonna just...
Forget all the pleasantries and talking about
the weather and just jump into it and and we
could start anywhere But I was interested that
you do a lot of education things like in schools
Can you tell us a little bit about that first
off? Yeah, so my heart was with my you know with
teaching young children because I feel like if
you start with people with children especially
at a young age then they'll grow up with less
fear of certain insects and especially flying
insects that sting and so kind of bringing honeybees
to these school rooms and walking through the
process and allowing them to see them up close
and learn about how they only sting if they're
threatened and the comparison of honeybees versus
yellow jackets which are the ones that go after
your pop or at the trash can at the fair. So
just kind of explaining all those differences
to kids so that they are fully aware of it. One
of my favorite things to do though is a drone
race. Have you ever heard of a drone race? No,
tell us about it. So what you do is you take,
if you live within a two mile radius of the location
that you're teaching at, so for my local school
district, I can go to one of my hives and collect
a handful of drones and I take them to the school.
I do the presentation and then I split the kids
into groups and I allow them to pick a color
from my queen marking pens. We mark one of the
drones and then the teacher and the children
go outside and I go home because I'm so close
to the location and I text the teacher and I
say release the drones and they release the drones
and I video record the front of the hive and
the first drone to make it back is the winner
for the end of the program and they just automatically
go straight back to the hive most of them do
yeah you typically I didn't know drones were
that smart yeah that's because they are out foraging
so they know where you know what high they're
coming from now they can't hop drunk and hop
hives but for the most part they return Sure.
Oh, I bet the kids love that. They do. Yeah,
I love it. I love watching that happen. You know,
just being amazed every time. Like, here they
come, you know. If you're, say, a half a mile
away, about how long does it take? Oh, minutes
of that. Like, that's about how far I am from
the local school is about a half mile. And they're
there within five minutes at the most. I would
say probably one to two minutes. They're back.
That's what I would have guessed. Oh, that is
so fun. Yeah. Well, you know, it takes the creativity
to get the kids attention. So that's fantastic.
Then are they just full of questions after that?
It depends on the age. Older children, not so
much. Maybe they'll ask a couple of questions.
Younger children, they usually tell me about
every time they've ever been stung. And so like
I have a question. I was stung one time, you
know, like that's not a question. Let's answer
a question. One of my Oh, things that I'm just
most interested in is everything apotherapy.
And I know you do a little bit of it. Can you
tell us what background you have what you do
with it? Okay, so I am a certified master herbalist
and in medicine and so I went to school for integrative
health sciences I just completed my master's
last semester and I just started my doctorate
as well in the same field integrative health
sciences and Prior to that I had done just a
lot of self -taught education about herbs and
bee products in general and I kind of because
I teach I teach a lot of classes and I didn't
want to offer the same basic classes that everybody
is teaching and so I started to learn more about
apotherapy especially you know how honey it can
be healing how pollen can be healing and I tell
people those things in the markets when I used
to sell in the markets you know like oh vitamin
B there's an excessive amount in pollen where
it's meeting your nutritional needs and you know
things like that just to kind of spread education
and awareness about it. But then I realized I
could actually teach a class. So I started teaching
a class and a lot of people wanted to know more
about bee venom. I have personally been stinging
myself and my husband for probably close to 10
years. He has scoliosis and I had symptoms of
Lyme disease as well as just other issues. You
know anything that hurts I'm willing to sting
it. And so we have personally used it in our
family for quite some time, but I started to
expand into helping other people as well. So
anybody that is willing to ask and to sign a
waiver to come to my house, I'm willing to help
them with bee venom therapy. But they're so,
Propolis is amazing. I learned firsthand how
healing propolis can be for oral issues. So cavities,
there's a lot of research out there showing that
it can help stop and reverse cavities because
strep is the leading cause of cavities in the
teeth and the antibacterial, antifungal, antimicrobial
benefits of propolis actually stop and reverse
the cavities that are being formed in the mouth.
Now you can't repair the tooth if there is damage
like holes in the teeth, but you can use propolis
to stop teeth pain and bacteria and all sorts
of amazing things in with dealing with mouth
issues. Emily you might want to look up about
six months ago I had Dr. Stefan Stangichu on
and he's do you know who he is? I've heard of
his name I haven't I've seen pictures of him
but I haven't been able his name keeps coming
up in my life so I know I got it. got to find
him. A lot of people know him as the world's
leading authority on everything apotherapy and
I know you and I say it different and that's
okay and he lives in Romania. He's a doctor over
there and back in December in fact we made it
a three part episode of everything apotherapy
and it was absolutely fascinating and people
when they hear the term they often just think
of bee stings or venom bee venom therapy and
it's so much more to that in fact last fall for
the first time we made some propolis tincture
and you can tell i've got a little bug right
now and i've been two or three times a day gargling
with this propolis tincture and it's I'm not
gonna say it tastes great it's kind of nasty
but this this isn't turning into things that
the people I got it from ended up with and and
I thought that was pretty cool I also had a little
sore in my mouth at the same time a little canker
sore and didn't even think about it and it went
away and it just happened to be while I was using
this propolis tincture, so there's some amazing
stuff there. It really is absolutely phenomenal
and very healing to the body. And you can use
it on cavities. You can use it on ulcers. You
can use it. One of the research articles I cite
in a presentation I give is on how it actually
helps with HSV 1 and 2. So the herpes simplex
virus, which can cause mouth cold sores and things
like that. It's just it's really awesome stuff.
Okay, I want to ask you a couple more things
about bee venom therapy before we move on and
I do want to preface this with obviously Lawyers
out there. We're not giving medical advice It
is always a good idea to have an EpiPen on hand
if you're doing anything like this or frankly
even if you're not because as a beekeeper you're
more likely to get stung and If you're going
to try something like bee sting therapy Work
into it very very slowly. That's one of the things
that dr. Stangich you talked about a lot is You
start with a little bit See how you react a little
bit more and a little bit more and work up to
it to be very very careful with this So we don't
want people to just go into a willy -nilly like
oh I've got such -and -such and Emily and Eric
said I should just sting myself ten times over
here and No, let's be a lot more careful than
that. Okay Now that the legal jargon's over,
Emily, tell me how you got started with it. You
mentioned about 10 years ago, and was it for
your husband first? Actually... I've thought
really hard about this and I can't remember what
made me start thinking about it. I don't know
if it was somebody I've heard because I was a
county inspector for a few years and I think
just networking with beekeepers and them telling
me oh you know like we my grandpa used to do
it for his joints and arthritis and I think that's
kind of where it started and then I broke my
foot I was supposed to run a 5k so I thought
hey I'm gonna sting my foot and see what happens
and it healed very quickly, much faster than
what I was, you know, they told me that it would.
They even asked me, they were like, what did
you do different? And I said, to be honest, I
was stinging my foot. They think I'm crazy. Then
my husband had a lot of back pain and I told
him like, hey, if it's working for me, I think
that this would also be beneficial for him. Now
it's not going to do, you know, we're not reversing
things like scoliosis, but he does find relief
in his joints, especially through the back pain
he has when I do venom treatment. on his back
and especially his hips. His hips hurt pretty
often and so we will just you know sting certain
areas related to those. Like you said you know
this wasn't a you just jump in and start doing
multiple stings. There's a whole protocol there.
It's a very slow process. You want to first make
sure that you're not going to have a reaction
but always know you can have a reaction later
on even though you haven't had one prior. So
it is a you know it's it's not just a willy -nilly
kind of thing. really need to know what you're
doing. Okay and how has it worked for you? I
- Almost died actually a few years ago. I they
still don't know what it caught what like what
happened But my body broke out in these strange
hives and I had a lot of nerve die -off in my
right foot I was in excruciating pain. It was
horrible. And then I got sepsis and like none
of it made sense I'm a very holistic very natural
person and so not like it was very hard for me
I was trying all the natural things to like overcome
it and then they I ended up in the ER Obviously
and they tried all these different antibiotics
to try to help they use some of the strongest
is all I remember I couldn't tell you all of
them except one of them was doxycycline and I
did respond very well to doxycycline which is
typically used for Lyme they did do a I think
it's called a blot test to see if I would test
positive for Lyme and at the time I was not I've
never tested positive for Lyme However, that's
kind of one of the things that you find when
you do research is that you may never actually
test positive on certain testing methods that
they use. However, after two things that I noticed,
now I went through this two different times a
year apart and still have no idea why, but when
these... symptoms arose, I was not being stung.
I'm stung often because I used to do cutouts,
so cutting bees out of houses. And then I'm just
a very irresponsible beekeeper who doesn't always
wear a suit. And so I'm stung pretty often. And
these both timeframes that this happened to me
were winter or very, very early spring prior
to getting stung. I never have these symptoms
during the summer when I'm stung regularly. And
so I started learning more about how it can,
there's a potential. ability for venom. in in
vitro studies to break down bacteria. Well, Lyme
disease is a bacteria and so it can cause cell
lysis where it puts holes in the bacteria and
causes the bacteria to collapse and so that is
why I started stinging myself. I sting down my
spine five times three days a week and it hasn't
always been that steady but usually through the
summer I try to keep up with it and I'm trying
to find a way to have hides on my porch through
the winter so that I can maintain those stains
through the winter as well so that I can avoid
any future issues like I had come across. But
that's what I use it for is potential Lyme issues
as well as weird joint pain that I have just
threw out because after that sepsis issue and
the nerve die off I had a lot of pain. And if
you can't figure out your own bees for the winter,
there are beekeepers out there that you can buy
them from specifically for this, and they overnight
them to you, and it works really well. Yeah,
Trish Thompson, I think, from Pollen Peddlers.
I just got to meet her recently. I talked to
her for quite some time, but yes, she does ship.
She's in North Carolina, and so when the weather
is okay for them to ship, they can ship them
to you, and they are a great business. I'm sure
there's probably others, but that's the one that
I'm very well aware of. Yeah, there are a few
others. I don't know all of them. I don't endorse
one over another or anything like that. Just
one more thing on this topic before we move on.
If somebody wants to try this the first time,
themself, as someone who has done quite a bit
of this, I can tell you it is not an easy thing
to sting yourself the very first time. It's like...
It's like everything in your DNA is saying, do
not do this. We are supposed to run from stinging
things. And you take a bee with these little,
what do you call the little tweezer thingers
you use? Reverse tweezers. Yeah. And you take
these and, and you figure out how to catch a
bee and you hold it with this and you decide
where you need it. And doing that for the very
first time is not easy. There just is a mental
thing for most of us that I find fascinating.
In myself, I'm like, why this shouldn't be so
hard. I've been stung a million times, but doing
it to yourself is. Any advice? I would say that
if I could go back and if I had to do, I mean,
there's, there's opinions that we give for people
who aren't beekeepers versus who are beekeepers.
And, um, but the The biggest thing I would say
is have somebody else sting you first so that
you can kind of feel that pain and go through
the process. I encourage people to ice it first
because that does reduce the burning sensation
that you typically get for a while. Quick break
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code MLBlove10. It will hurt if you use your
appendages that they're being stung on like if
you're using your feet you're gonna swell more
you know so I always encourage people to do it
in the evening and then put their feet up if
they're doing their legs or or towards their
feet area but as far as it really is it is hard
to force yourself to sting yourself because you
know that it's going to it isn't comfortable
you know it it is a little bit painful I don't
know, you get used to it, you really do. I had
to do Lovenox injections when I was pregnant
and it was very similar where I didn't want to
do it and then nine months later I'm like, you
know, I can hit my stomach anytime, no big deal.
It just, it takes time and you are completely
normal even if you have bees and you've been
getting stung and you're still nervous to do
it. And how long do people need to leave the
stinger in to get the full venom effect? That's
one thing some people don't know. You don't just
scrape the stinger out immediately like when
you get stung out in the field. It's recommended
15 minutes but I just kind of watch and see when
it's done pulsating and once it's done pulsating
I'm okay with pulling them out. I would say at
least good seven to ten minutes you're pretty
good you you have most of the dose at least and
you can if you're trying to hurry along because
I have people who are they have busy schedules
and they're just stopping here as quick as they
can because they're coming three days a week
sometimes and so we will sting them and then
I only have them hang out for about ten minutes
and then we pull the stinger out I have a couple
people who are beekeepers and they're comfortable
with pulling the stingers out themselves so I
just sting them in the area and then they get
in their car and they leave And hopefully don't
have a reaction. It's never a new patient and
I wouldn't say patient. It's never a new client.
It's never somebody that I haven't gone through
the whole experience with them sat and watched
them multiple times. Very smart. Back to propolis.
I noticed on your website you have a propolis
mineral paste. What is that and what does it
do? I had a Let's see like the whole story. So
I had to have a CT scan when I was pregnant because
they thought I had a brain bleed and When I went
through that it would have been the development
time for my child I was pregnant with to have
the teeth development happening Well, once he
was born it was about I don't you know when the
teeth they're coming in the front teeth I couldn't
tell you right off the bat, but by 18 months
He had some major issues with his forefront teeth
and we couldn't figure out what the cause was
and so they we believe it was likely exposure
to that scan that caused issues for his just
his baby teeth and so the dentist wanted to do
surgery and they wanted to put him under to extract
all four of those teeth and I did as much research
as I could because as a mom with young children
I didn't want to put him under and I found out
that you can do something called remineralizing
your teeth so you are putting different products
most of them like a clay aloe, powder, different
things created that will help with that process
in addition to propolis has these benefits as
well. And so it made sense to me to look up and
research all of the ingredients that would be
beneficial to remineralizing your teeth. and
then add propolis to it. And so that's what I
did. And we were actually able to buy about two
and a half years. He was four and a half when
we finally did do the surgery. So it didn't,
you know, like I mentioned before, it doesn't
repair the damage there, but it will slow bacteria
growth and it will stop certain bacteria from
forming and causing further decay to the teeth.
I feel very blessed that that was something that
happened for us. And a friend of mine reached
out and said, Hey, my daughter has a cavity in
her mole. And she you know, like we try to take
her to the dentist and she lost her mind and
so they Recommended putting her under do you
have what was your experience? So I gave her
some of it and the cavity disappeared after about
six weeks like completely gone and They did not
actually ever have to do anything further with
the tooth I still see that little girl pretty
often and she never had to have anything done
to that tooth after that And so it kind of blew
my mind to know that was a possibility and I
started selling it online. I've sold over, I
don't know, 6 ,000 jars of it at this point.
I have a lot of repeat customers and a lot of
people who reach out to me and say, hey, this
stopped my tooth pain, this stopped this issue
or that issue, or I was able to use it for X,
Y, or Z. It's really awesome. The base is just
bentonite clay and then it has aloe powder in
it as well as propolis. I still see that little
girl after her mom had used that and she's never
ever had to have anything. done to that tooth
further and she no longer has the cavity in the
tooth. That is very cool. What is everybody else
using it for? Like what would I buy it for? For
oral health or something else? Some people use
it just to apply like for brushing for sensitivity
for gingivitis But most people are purchasing
it for remineralizing teeth and then I market
it towards children specifically because a lot
of parents don't want to put their children under
or Take a medical route unless absolutely necessary
and so this is a way to kind of buy time Until
they're a little bit older and can have something
further done. I would never encourage a parent
to only use this, still see the dentist, still
ask their opinion, still have them watch it,
still do x -rays because you can get an abscess
still. That's always a possibility and that is
actually what ended up happening with our son
is that he started getting abscesses. So we were
able to ward it off until it became unsafe and
then once it becomes unsafe then you need to
act further. All right. Let's jump away from
medical for a minute. Let's talk about some of
the other beekeeping things that you do. By the
way, how many hives do you run? Right now I have
probably close to 30. All at one place or do
you spread them out? And I don't think I mentioned
this up front. You're in Ohio, right, in the
United States? Yes. Okay, so are these spread
out over a few different locations? Do I have
four different locations? My main hub is my home
where I bring in all my swarms and then once
I establish them as a healthy thriving colony
I will move them to an out yard and that way
if I ever bring anything in To my yard then only
a minimal amount of them are exposed But yeah,
and then this is also where I do I don't graft
Queens, but I do produce Queens I do it naturally
through the hive breaking them down and things
and so this is where I mate the Queens are mated
and then I move them to Can you give us a little
more explanation on that? take us really step
by step through that process. So to make my own
queens, what I would usually do is I will wait
for one of my strongest colonies to start showing
signs of swarming behavior and developing cups.
And once they have cups, or especially if they
have eggs in them, then if it's a large colony,
and I typically run four mediums for winter.
I do not care for deep boxes. I use all eight
frame medium equipment because everything is
interchangeable. So I will take basically each
box off as long as they all have eggs and brood.
I will make sure that there is a queen cup or
queen cell in each one and I will divide that
large colony into four. In addition to that,
I make sure that I have a frame feeder in there
so that they have a lot of carbohydrates and
then I will put a pollen patty in as well for
protein because they cannot produce a good queen
or a lot of royal jelly unless they have the
protein from the pollen patty. The one additional
thing is when I divide them, wherever I'm placing
them, I don't leave one hive in the same location
that it came from. I will typically move one
at least a foot or two feet to the right. And
then the new one I'll put two feet or whatever
to the left. And that way when the foragers are
returning, they are choosing a hive to go to
instead of all the foragers returning to one.
or I will take them to an out yard so that they're
not, so that the population stays well because
I want them to create a very good healthy queen.
I love it. We're learning a lot today. Would
you be willing to share with us some kind of
wild and crazy beekeeping story you've had? So
I've been thinking about this for a few days
and I just am like oh I know so many wild crazy
things have happened like um one time my husband
was on the end of a 50 -foot ladder at the top
of this very old historic building and he what
we thought was just a swarm was actually a bee's
building comb so then it turned into now he has
to cut this comb off the outside of the building
carry it down this really long ladder and on
the way down the the queen was in it and like
flies out and he's standing there and he can
see the queen flying around he's like the queen
is like out of the box and I climb up the ladder
and I literally like snatched her in the air
with my hand and I was like how did that even
happen but then we put her in the bucket you
know and she stayed in there with them but it
was just the process of being cut from the wall
that caused her to fly out other than that I
mean I have bad stories like dropping hives on
accident, trying to transport them, trying to
look professional and definitely didn't. I think
we've all done that kind of thing this morning
for me. Yeah, luckily a bunch of people weren't
watching, but. Mistakes definitely happen. Wow,
I'm picturing that. That is a super tall ladder.
Yes. And I'm impressed with your superhuman ability
to catch a queen right out of the air. That is
very impressive. And not squisher. Yeah, and
that's the biggest thing. Oh, I mean, how about
that whole thing of accidentally killing your
favorite queens? I mean, I've done that, too.
All right. Tell us a little bit more about the
swarm removals that you do. Is this something
that's part of your business or you're just rescuing
bees or what's the story? So my business is called
Mueller Honey Bee Rescue, and that was the whole.
To be honest, I'm a mom. I'm a stay -at -home.
Well, I was a stay -at -home mom and I homeschool
my kids and so I couldn't budget -wise afford
this very expensive hobby because beekeeping
is not cheap, to be honest. And so I really wanted
to be a beekeeper and I only had one empty hive
and we caught a swarm first. That was the way
we became beekeepers. And then I decided I wanted
to grow. We found some equipment used at an auction.
We brought that home to use. So I decided that
I would start advertising free swarm removal
which free swarm removal turned into cutouts
because in the beginning I thought oh Well, we'll
just cut these bees out of the wall and now we'll
have free bees and that was quite the opposite
It's a lot of work. We ended up going down to
Mississippi and training under some really good
well -known people I don't know if you're familiar
with JP the bee man or yappy, but they both trained
me and my husband on how to do cutouts and then
we came back up to Ohio and we started you know
zero experience other than Doing them down there
with them. We came up here and we started a whole
I started a whole business like oh, hey now I
am a cutout professional. It's kind of what I
thought we did Oh gosh, probably over a hundred
cutouts over several years and it just once we
had our last child I decided like it's too much
to do but now yes, we do swarm removal or I do
I am the the owner of the company and I do pretty
much everything sometimes I drag kids with me,
but they don't like to be in the car with stinging
insects I go out like I was just at a swarm before
this phone call I ran 30 minutes which I usually
don't drive that far but I'm trying to get bees
in my mother -in -law's hives which are technically
mine so this swarm was near her house and I went
to shake them in the box and when I did so they
dispersed into the air and flew away and I was
like wow what a waste of an hour of my life so
that's part of the fun of it isn't it Yeah, I
don't know about fun, but bees teach me. They
teach me patience, they teach me appreciation,
and I am thankful for at least those experiences.
But that's super unusual. I mean, usually when
you shake them from a branch, they just fall,
as if they can't fly. A few will start flying,
but in general, they fall down in your box or
whatever you have for them to land in. Why do
you think they just took off? Now, what happened
was they actually arrived yesterday early evening
and the people didn't call until today. And by
the time I got to it, it was almost noon. And
so it was warming up. And I think that they were
ready to move on. They were about to. And I just
helped them along a little bit sooner than what
they anticipated. But yeah, they just they flew
right off the branch and flew away. I've only
ever had that happen one other time. Typically,
it's a matter of when they fly away, it's because
I'm not there in enough time, you know, I can't
get there or by the time I get there, they fly
away. It is very rare for them to fly away while
I'm trying to collect them. Do you also use swarm
traps? I don't so much. I'm I should. I really
should. And I don't. But I have them. I have
them sitting outside next to all of my other
equipment. It's just that I have so much. so
many other things going on I really wish that
someone could just come take my swarm traps and
hang them up for me and then I will go pull them
down but time is of the essence for me I have
four children and I'm just always always busy
plus I'm doing full -time my doctorate and I
have two part -time jobs plus run my company
and help my husband with his company and uh so
yeah I'm burning the candle at multiple ends
Well, based on all of that, I really, really
appreciate you taking the time today to meet
with us because we've all been able to learn
something from this. And just as a wrap up, is
there any piece of advice that you'd like to
share? Or just why does Emily love bees? Oh,
man. Why do I love bees? Like I connect with
them, like the crazy cat lady, I'm the crazy
bee lady. Like I connect with them on a level
that I cannot explain. Somebody was here yesterday
and they were observing my hives and they said,
do your hives recognize you? And I said, I don't
think that they recognize me, but they can feel
my energy and that I'm not afraid of them because
I can, like we are standing there and all of
a sudden a bee came up to the one lady's head
and started circling her head. And I put my hand
out and I told the bee, like I stopped, in its
way like so that it had to like reroute and I
said stop it and then like the bee just disappear
and flew away and so you know like that kind
of most people aren't willing to do that aren't
willing to like risk getting stung to tell a
bee to stop acting like that but like when I
mow by them they don't irritate me I I talk to
them which you know I'm Not bad words sometimes
But I love bees. I love bees on a level. I never
thought could even be possible and I just really
appreciate what it can do for the central nervous
system in particular helping center and calm
people in general, but me myself I I grew up
in a very traumatic way and I carried a lot of
that into adulthood and Being able to get into
bee hives puts you on this meditational state
and this calming center that I never could obtain
prior to beekeeping. And so it has changed my
entire life and it just is a really truly amazing
experience. Thanks again for joining us on Bee
Love Beekeeping presented by Man Lake. Another
big thank you goes to V2B Health for their support.
Vita's Varroa Control Ranger products includes
Epistan, Epigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release
Oxalic Acids Trips. Hey thanks a lot guys. And
if you haven't yet, please subscribe to and follow
the show, tell your friends about it, and click
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or topic you'd like discussed on the show, shoot
me an email, eric at BeLoveBekeeping .com and
remember if you're not just in it for the honey
or the money, you're in it for the love. See
you next week.