in a world brimming with complexity few creatures
embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless
precision she dances from bloom to bloom each
motion guided by millennia upon millennia of
instinct each act in service to the whole and
then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards
of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,
part poet, they move along their hives with the
efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to
the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,
and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the
Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing
like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their
journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping
presented by our great friends over at Man Lake.
By the way, if you haven't yet, please subscribe
to and follow the show, tell your friends about
it and click on over to Be Love Beekeeping dot
com to sign up for our free newsletter. Today's
guest is a beekeeper in Connecticut and we'll
be discussing everything from swarms to self
-service honey stands, wild and crazy beekeeping
stories. It's going to be a whole bunch of fun.
But first, I loved this recent article from Environment
America titled 10 ways bees are smarter than
you think. So can you think of all 10? Tell you
what, here we go. Number one, bees can solve
puzzles that require impressive problem solving.
In one study, researchers created a box with
sugar inside that could be opened by rotating
a lid, but the bees had to rotate a blue lid
for it to work, not the nearby red one. After
trial and error, the bees learned that only the
blue lid unlocked the box. Number two, bees are
math whizzes. Bees can count and discriminate
up to four objects at a time, understanding that
each one is separate. They can even look at two
groups of objects, compare the two, and identify
which group has fewer in it. Even more impressive,
researchers think that bees might even understand
the concept of zero, an idea that puzzled even
mathematicians for many years. Okay, I better
give a little bit shorter explanations or we're
not gonna get through the list. Let's keep going.
Number three, some bees use tools. Number four,
bees are their own GPS. When bees travel miles
to faraway fields and gardens, they use the position
of the sun and earth to return home with impressive
accuracy. Number five, bees have dreams and daydreams.
Number six bees can teach each other think of
the waggle dance Also in one experiment when
one bee figured out how to solve a puzzle other
bees observed the behavior and followed suit
Number seven bees have their own language Again,
think of the waggle dance as a great example
number eight bees can recognize human faces number
nine bees might even be able to play soccer?
Scientists have trained bees to manipulate a
small ball into a goal -like structure for a
reward of sugar. And lastly, number 10, bees
experience complex emotions. bees tiny brains
release dopamine and serotonin when they eat
sugar, signaling happiness. And bees even feel
PTSD like symptoms after traumatic events and
feel more optimistic about foraging after they've
found a good food source. So again, amazing,
amazing, amazing. Our buddies the bees, they
are just incredible. Alright, I am so happy to
welcome our very special guest today, Lauren
Donninger. How are you, Laura? Good, good. Nice
to meet you. Thanks for having me on. And you're
in Hamden, Connecticut? Right, right outside
of New Haven. East Coast of the U .S. for those
that are off in another country someplace. And
I appreciate you jumping on here because you
were just explaining that you've been in the
bee yard all day and you've been working out.
Yeah. So you're not dressed up like Glamour Queen.
You're like a real live beekeeper. And that's
the best part. So love that. So I want to jump
into I want to talk swarms first. Sure. Because
you're pretty good at catching swarms. I mean,
I know that you saw that I posted in a Facebook
group just I do every year. This is what a swarm
looks like. If you see a swarm. Call me. I'll
come get it. You can name the queen. I'll bring
you the first pound of honey. Don't spray it.
You know, that sort of thing, which I think is,
you know, most hobbyists do that in their like
local community groups. So I posted that in a
reporter, I don't know, picked up on it and thought
it was a good human interest story. So I catch
a few swarms a year. I have some swarm box up.
But, you know, I'm not I don't have any special
skill. No, that's OK. We're just regular old
beekeepers here, around here. How many swarm
boxes do you have up and what do they look like?
I have four and they're like the 40 liter, they're
wood. A couple of years ago I got this strap
and it goes around the tree and then there's
a hook on it so you can hang it on and that has
been a very helpful little innovation and tool
and you know I don't put them up that high. have
you know I bring a six foot ladder with me and
you know maybe ideally they'd be a little bit
higher but I have it has to be fun I have to
be able to get it and then they're just they're
places where either friends who are interested
or people who've called me like I've won this
year it's a condo complex and they've called
two years in a row with a swarm so I was like
I'm bringing a box for you this year and maybe
wherever you know those bees are coming from
maybe we'll catch them. So out of your boxes
Just give me some kind of a ratio, like how many
swarms do you catch each year? Well, I mean,
I go out and in my boxes, I definitely catch
probably four. Like most of the boxes catch at
least one swarm. So like one swarm per box per
summer. OK. Typically, yeah. Yeah. And then in
terms of going on swarm calls, I have to like
I have to say no sometimes because I'm a backyard
beekeeper, and I can end up with just like more
bees than I can manage. But I love to go do it.
And I maybe go and maybe get five or six swarms
that are just a call. So on your average, how
many colonies are you keeping at any one time?
Right now. I think I have 15, which is a little
bit more than I would like to, but I do vertical
splits. So I don't know, maybe you could call
it 30 if you do it based on queens. But I do
the vertical splits because I don't want to make
more colonies. I don't want to do a split and
then have another box at another location. So
I use a Snellgrove board or a double screen board.
You know, as long as you brought that up, Why
don't we talk about what a vertical split is
and exactly how you do it. Just kind of walk
us through the steps. Yep. So usually in the
early, early spring, I overwinter usually in
two deeps. And then in early spring, depending
on how the colonies look, I'll get them down
to one. I'll put them all down to one. Hopefully
don't need to feed, but if I need to feed, I'll
feed. And then once that colony builds up in
the one box, I will, I'll leave the queen, the
overwintered queen, I'll leave her in the bottom
box and then I'll take really all, nearly all
of the frames of brood and put them in another
box. So it'll be the deep with the queen and
you know, I've been beheading for a while so
I have a lot of resources so they don't have
to make comb. The queen, I'll leave a frame of
pollen, frame of honey and then empty frames.
queen excluder, honey super, then the double
screen board. And on top of the double screen
board, I'll put the box with all of that brood,
and they'll make a queen. And the box has a series
of doors on it, and I'll open one door that is
the exit for the top box. all of the bees that
are oriented below will just go home to the bottom
box and then the nurse bees will you know they're
obviously not going to leave the brood and then
as the brood emerges from that top box after
about five days maybe six I will close the door
and there's a little door right under it and
I'll open that door so now the bees that have
oriented to that top box, they're going to come
back. And now it's not going to be quite the
same door. It's going to be the door below. So
I'm bleeding off and giving more and more workers
to the bottom box who don't have a lot of brood
yet, because it took all the brood. So they don't
have anything to do but make honey. And then
so when I close that door, I open one on the
other side, because always the top box always
has a place to leave. Five or so days later,
I do the same thing. And then I open the last
door for the top box. And that's the one where
when the queen, the virgin queen emerges, that's
the one that she's going to take her mating flights
from. And at that point, and this is a lot of
what I was doing today, at that point, I have
really bled off the field force from the top
and pumped up the field force on the bottom.
So I will sometimes say I was feeding that top
box because for that virgin to be strong enough,
you know, once she's mated, some of them are
mated now, in order for them to really get started.
Sometimes I'll give them some feed, and then
I'll decide if, like, who, I'll decide who lives.
Which queen am I gonna keep? Usually the new
one, you know, usually the new one, and at some
point I'll pinch one or the other, leave them,
you know, for a few days, and then combine them,
and by then they have a big field force. That's
a big responsibility, deciding who lives and
who dies. It's terrible. Wow, playing God here.
It's terrible. And it's terrible because, like,
she's a perfectly good queen. And yeah, it's
terrible. It's so hard to pinch a queen. Yeah,
it's just so hard to do. And one thing I've noticed
about this technique that I need to make notes
for myself next year, I need to wait a little
bit later because Those bottom boxes today, I
had swarm cells in those bottom boxes. So I was
like, oh, that weren't supposed to swarm. I caught
them. I'm so lucky. I can't believe I caught
them. One of them, I had just done the manipulation,
and I watched the virgin queen emerge. And she
was now in the top box. It was like, they would
have swarmed tomorrow for sure, because that
virgin emerged. So that's how I like to do splits.
So when you get swarm calls from people, how
have they found you? Just from your website or
what? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think they Google.
I mean, the fact that I have a website is I had
a, it was a friend of my daughter's who was doing
some certificate in web development. And she
said, I need to build a web page. Could I build
you one? I was like, yes, Megan, you can build
me one. So I had tried to build one myself. not
a skill I have, not a skill I want to have. And
it was frustrating. And then, you know, here
I got this web page. So, yeah, I think they find
it from that. Yeah, I looked at it. It looks
nice. Thank you. And it has a little thing about
your honey selling business. And I mean, you
say you're just a hobbyist, but if you have 15
or even 10 or 20 hives, you're going to end up
with a lot of honey at the end of the year. So
explain to everybody how you sell it. It is very
casual and you asked about like people calling
me. I live in Hamden now it's like 13 years but
I didn't raise my kids here so you know I didn't
really have a sense of community here. I don't
work in Hamden I work in New Haven. The bees
are how I ended up sort of getting to know people
in the community and that has been just a particular
delight. Somebody will say I have a swarm and
people will say you know, yellow house honey
and they'll link me. And so what I do is, it's
a self -service stand. I put the honey on the
porch and there's a little welcome sign on my
porch door and people, it's just a little bookshelf
with glass doors and people help themselves and
leave cash or do Venmo and yeah, it's really
casual. I don't know, I think it's very, like
obviously it's an honor system. worried about
it. And I think people really like the, I don't
know, just the open trust element. I have a little
sign that says, if you need change and I'm not
home, short me. Don't short yourself. Absolutely
short me. Or take, you know, and make some other
little products. Like take something else instead.
Or, you know, catch me next time. It's very local
and very friendly, which I really like. Yeah,
that is awesome. But I want to make sure I'm
clear. This is on your front porch. You have
like a closed in area with a door. It's a side
porch. So my house is a little just like my logo.
That's my house. It's a little yellow Cape Cod
style house. And I have a garage that has a little
porch with a door on it and then When you come
in the porch, the garage is on the right, but
it's all closed and the house is on the left
and straight out is slider to the to the bee
yard. So it's just a little, you know, it's a
closed in porch and people just come in and help
themselves. That's great. And you sell all the
honey you want to sell that way. I do. I sell
out every year. I sell out. No farmers markets
or any of that kind of stuff. You know, I did.
I started I did start. at farmers markets. It
is rough to go to a farmers market because honey
is heavy. Honey is really heavy. And if you're
not at a farmers market where you can park right
there, like I've been to some where you're supposed
to unload and then drive away. So I haven't needed
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like the conversation and so forth at the farmers
market but it's a lot of work and I've sold out
so usually I sell out so I don't need to yeah.
A lot of work and a little bit of money and and
like they say a pound of honey weighs two pounds.
Yeah. I wanted to just finish up one thing on
the swarms and that is so when you get a call
and you go to their house Now, you were telling
me you don't do cutouts. No. Tell me why. I don't
have the carpentry skill. Yeah, I don't have
the skill to. to do the cutting and I definitely
don't have the skill to do the repair. And there
are some, a couple of beekeepers locally. There's
a woman, Erin Stevens. She's fabulous. If I get
a call and I see that it needs a cutout, I'll
call Erin. There's also, he's a big beekeeper.
His name is Ryan Griffith. He's at Necker, Necker
Farms. He might even be commercial. He does so
many cutouts. So there are people who are very
good at that. I have heard of that place and
I'm trying to remember if he was on the show.
Ryan Griffith, he's great. And with those cutouts,
I know some beekeepers that they'll either do
the cutout, but then they have a handyman that
they work with that comes back and fixes everything,
or the handyman will actually do the cutout with
them. and then they'll do the removal handyman
and come back and fix it. In some states you
are not even allowed to fix it unless you're
some kind of a licensed contractor. That kind
of makes sense. Just letting everybody know there's
Make sure you know what you're doing as far as
those local laws and that kind of stuff because
somebody may think, oh, oh, he's just going to
make this little cut to get the bees out. But
the beehive might be this big. And the next thing
you know, you know, a three by six foot part
of your wall is gone. And that's going to freak
out some people. So. I got a call last week from
the, it's a little community theater in Waterbury
and they thought that they had a swarm. They
didn't, they sent me videos and I think a swarm
probably landed there and there were some left
behinds. But they had once before had a swarm
that had gone, it was between the walls and their
handyman cut it out and a beekeeper removed it
and so I would do that. fellow, he was so, he
was so, they were so pleasant, the people at
the theater. And if they end up with bees moving
in, if there's somebody who's going to cut, then,
then I would be happy to. And also depending
on where it is, I'll climb a ladder, but not,
you know, so high that it's, I can't be breaking
a hip. I'm going to be 65. I can't be breaking
a hip. Do you ever use for swarms way up in a
tree, one of those poles with a bucket on it?
I made one. Yeah. Oh, good. I made one. I bought
a pull saw. It was a pull saw retractable thing
on Facebook. It was ancient. And the guy was
worried if I knew how to use it. I said, I just
need to know how to take this off because I'm
attaching a five gallon bucket to it. So I've
had that for three years. I drive around with
it in my car and other swarm equipment. And I've
not yet have gone high enough to use it. But
I'm hoping for one this year. You will. You will.
It'll happen. One of the reasons I wanted to
have you on the show when we were chatting the
other day is you said you've made so many mistakes
and that is how we all learn. We're going to
talk about wild and crazy stories in a few minutes
but give me an idea of a couple of mistakes that
you've made that you learned a lot from and others
that are listening can learn from. One early
mistake, I had gotten my first, I bought a nuc
actually, and I had one colony, I had gone to
bee school in the winter, and now it was early
spring, and I got a nuc, and I was having my
yard fenced in, and the timing worked out that
where I wanted to put the bees, Like they couldn't
put the fence in and then I had learned in bee
school that like don't move them more like three
feet is the max. So I set up the hive and I put
it in a wheelbarrow and then I moved it a little
bit every day. And by the time I got those bees
to where I wanted them, they were mad and aggressive.
And it was not fun. So I was like, I'm not doing
this. This is not a fun hobby. Why would anybody
do this? I can't even step in my backyard. I'm
getting stung in Connecticut. Maybe it's true
elsewhere. You can't sell bees without having
the bee inspector come. So I called the bee inspector.
He's like, I don't want to do this. Come inspect.
And he walks into my backyard. He's like, ah,
is it always like this? I was like, yes, I don't
want to do it. He's like, you need a new queen.
Which I didn't know. And this is not. something
the B inspector typically does, but it was just
a dumb luck circumstance that the experiment
station is like two miles from me, and he had
an extra queen. And he went and got a queen,
and he replaced it, and I was good to go. I had
rattled them up, right? Like they had had an
earthquake every day as I moved them. So that's
a mistake I won't make again. And then I overwintered
barely successfully. The queen was there, and
they were alive, but the cluster was so small.
So I started another package and wanted to balance
them. So the new package, they start laying,
and I knew that you should give eggs. I didn't
know, and the nurse bees. So I thought like if
you put bees in a hive with a queen that isn't
their queen, then it'll be war. I have this week
week hive. I'm supporting this new package and
I gave this fabulous frame of larvae and eggs
like just the new queen had done magnificent
work and I put it in that overwintered and they
ate it all because they were you know I didn't
you don't know you don't know I didn't know I
need to leave the nurse bees on never made that
mistake again although a story related related,
just like how nice the beekeeping community is.
It's probably everywhere. It's really nice in
Connecticut. There are three bee clubs in Connecticut.
I belong to Connecticut Beekeepers Association.
I can't begin to say enough good things about
the organization and the leadership. I had overwintered.
They were barely alive. I had wasted the frame
of brood and larva by not putting in the nurse
bees. I wanted to have survival. And I started
calling beekeepers on the list saying, can I
buy a frame from you? And this beekeeper in the
next town, his name is Ray Sala. I don't think
I've ever seen him again, but, you know, I see
his name. He's like, oh, you're a new beekeeper.
I'll bring you a couple of frames. He brought
me frames of overwintered brood. And he gave
it to me. I mean, of course I offered to pay
for it. He gave it to me. And that was my first
overwinter experience, which, you know. They
didn't really survive. They wouldn't have. But
yeah. Beekeepers are the best people. Oh my gosh.
Yeah. Yeah. The other bee clubs, besides the
Beekeepers Association, there's, I think it's
called Eastern Connecticut. The person who runs
that is Adam Fuller. He is phenomenal. If you're
looking for a guest, he's great. And have you
interviewed Bill Hesbeck yet? No. Bill Hasbeck,
he's the president of Connecticut Beekeepers
Association, which is one I belong to, and he
does a lot of research. Actually, I use Bill's...
condensing hive. He's published a lot in Connecticut
Bee Journal. I mean, American Bee Journal. He
runs, it's called Bee Talks, the second or third
Thursday of the month. It used to be in person
before COVID. It was so much better in person.
But, you know, it's been online since. But which,
you know, is accessible for more accessible for
a lot of people. And then there's also backyard
beekeepers. I'm not as familiar with them. Connecticut
Beekeeper is quite a resource. fabulous resource.
I'll have you send me their information later.
I will. And hopefully everybody's excited about
hearing from those guests. I'll reach out to
them. Thank you for the referral on that. Sure.
All right. Every beekeeper has had some kind
of wild and crazy beekeeping story. I swear I
have one every single time I'm out with the bees.
So can you think of one or two that you want
to share with us? The first year that I got honey,
which was probably my third year, I was aware
of, you know, how carefully I have to be about
robbing. And I took the frames out one by one,
took, you know, used smoke, used a brush, got
all the beads, like ran to the side porch, stacked
them all up, like very meticulously, very carefully.
And then it was a few days. I had to work and
it was a few days before I could extract. And
I was... so mindful of shutting that slider door.
I have a dog, so I'd let the dog out, shut that
slider door, and it was probably, I don't know,
maybe it was gonna be like four, it was four
or five days that I am religiously shutting this
slider door. So these frames of honey are actually
in part of the house. They're on the side porch
where the honey stand is. That's the porch. There's
a separate door that goes into the house. And
about how many frames? Easily 20, maybe. Oh,
probably more. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was
my fourth year. I had them in boxes and there
were many boxes. All right. This all sounds so
safe. No problem. I don't know where the crazy
part's going to come in. I went to a little family
event, came home. It was dark. I stepped onto
the porch with my dog. And it was like I was
in another universe. I didn't know what was happening.
It was like a roar of an engine that was crunching
under my feet. I'm reaching, trying to open the
house door. When I open the house door, I'd left
the slider open. was mayhem. I mean, it was terrible
that the honey was gone, but like the number
of dead bees, ugh. I mean, it was just a, it
was massive death. It was terrible. They were,
you know, just, it took so long to clean up.
They got in the house because when I came home,
I opened the house door and they were all in
the door because there was a light further in
the house. So they're, you know, on the door
and I opened it into the house. It took a long
time to clean up. And then for days, these were
just dive bombing the slider. Just dive bombing.
Like we know that that honey is in there. Oh,
gosh, that is a mistake. I don't think I'll make
again. Yeah, I have one kind of similar. This
is this is not a one up you in any way, shape
or form. The first time that I harvested honey
was a little three frame crank extractor. Right.
And everything went smoothly. And when I was
done, I knew, oh, put the extractor outside,
let the bees come clean it out. Oh, what a wonderful
idea. I'm going to do that. And we have a large
front porch and I and it was, you know, end of
a long day after extracting and stuff. So I I
carry this out with the lid off and I take it
out the front door and just set it right there
on the front porch. And like tomorrow. You know,
I'll come move it someplace, but didn't think
anything of it. Well, tomorrow, yes, nobody could
get near the front of our house at all. It was
hilarious. I'm thinking, I've always wanted to
keep the neighbors away. Anyway, so yes, in the
middle of the night, the next night, I then took
it out to the middle of the front lawn where
it was just fine. And we learned from those little
lessons and everything's fine and it's okay.
So for new beekeepers... Don't feel bad when
you make a mistake. And sometimes we kill our
bees and that feels horrible. Just make sure
you learn something from it to help you be a
better beekeeper in the future. Last question
I have for you. You seem like someone that loves
bees. I don't love bees. Tell me why. You know,
I love bees. their democracy. I love Tom Seeley's
book, Honey Bee Democracy. I love it so much.
I love the biology. They're endlessly fascinating
to watch. And then of course, you know, they're
beautiful, especially when they have pollen pants.
Pollen's so beautiful. And then we eat because
of them. Yeah, I love them. And speaking of Tom
Seeley, he's been on the show a couple of times
I love that book and I love him. He is just the
sweetest gentleman Yeah, for those that have
had a chance to know him. You're you're lucky.
It's not just his knowledge He's just really
a good person. Yeah, I've enjoyed getting to
know him anything else you want to share with
us before I let you go This is probably just
a broken record. I would say though. I talked
about a lot about I mean, I have a lot of failures.
I could talk about a lot more failures. But I
have had really good overwintering success. Like
last year and this year both, I had 100 % survival.
I treat for mites. I am on top of the mites.
And I think that often beekeepers will... Like,
they don't know that they should go to bee school.
They see, like, the Flow Hive commercials and
think, oh, I just put this box in my yard. That's
all there is to it. And then their bees die and
they're sad and they find bee school. I don't
know, my number one piece of advice is just you
have to treat for mites. I mean, if you're living
in a place where your bees aren't going to interact
with other bees and so you think you want to
sort of get the evolution of... you know, you'll
have a lot of die off and then they'll be more
mite resistant. But if you're living in a place
like Connecticut, it's not just your decision.
There's everybody else's bees they're going to
interact with. So treat the mites. So you don't
do anything special as far as wrapping your hive
or insulating? I do. Yeah, what else do you do?
I use, so Bill Hesbeck published a number of
years ago in American Bee Journal, condensing
hives. I never have upper ventilation. All year
round, my inner cover doesn't have a notch. And
I have a piece of faux insulation and then the
outer cover. So I have that all year round. In
the winter, I have that condensing hive that
Bill Hesbeck published about. Also includes,
it's like a sleeve. It's a box that's basically
four sides of insulation that sits. right over
the hive, and then the outer cover is much bigger
and insulated. So I have a number of those, but
I don't have enough for all of them, and really
I've had the same survival with the sleeve and
without the sleeve. I put the sleeve on my row
that doesn't get as much morning sun. There's
another row that gets more sun, so they're the
ones that don't get the sleeve. But I think not
having ventilation. Bees in a bee tree don't
make an upper entrance, right? You know, if you
ask five beekeepers you get six different opinions,
but no ventilation on the top ever for me. That
is such a crazy thing. I've talked to so many
experts on both sides of the equation on that
one, so my recommendation is for people try it
one way, try it another way, see what works for
you, because what works for you may not work
for me and And I know, I totally get it, but
making sure you don't have a bad mite load going
into fall, that is a universal principle. Yep.
Now what you use to take care of that, we're
not going to tell you what to do. There's a lot
of different things. And I'm just going to add
to that. Don't wait till Halloween to say, oh,
I'm too late. I'm going to test for mites and
I'll throw a treatment in there if it needs it.
What did you just say? Too late. Too late. When
do you need to be on top of them? I mean, all
year. You need to be on top of them all year.
But August, that's when you're really starting
to think about the winter bees. But all year.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure Bill would like to talk
to you about the condensing hive. Should look
at his article. I'll talk to Bill. Lauren, you've
been awesome. Thank you for joining me today.
And please keep in touch. Thank you so much.
It was really a pleasure talking with you. Thanks
again for joining us on Be Love, Be Keeping presented
by Man Lake. Another big thank you goes to Vita
B Health for their support. Vita's Varroa Control
Ranger products includes Epistan, Epigard, and
now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic Acids Trips.
Hey thanks a lot guys. And if you haven't yet,
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