in a world brimming with complexity few creatures
embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless
precision she dances from bloom to bloom each
motion guided by millennia upon millennia of
instinct each act in service to the whole and
then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards
of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,
part poet, they move along their hives with the
efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to
the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,
and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the
Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing
like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their
journey. And we've got on the line with us today
Chris Hyatt, was good enough to come back, had
him last year, and before we jump into everything
for those that don't know Chris, well most people
in beekeeping do know Chris, but Chris say hello
and give us a little bit about your background
and what you do. Sure Chris Hyatt, past president
of the American Honey Producers Association and
pretty much lifetime beekeeper. My dad started
our company like 58 years ago and I've got four
other brothers along with me that we run our
18 ,000 highs between North Dakota, California
and Washington. Been part of the leadership for
American Honey Producers for about 13 years,
executive board and then went through vice president,
president, now past president. So I'm still on
the board for a little while longer. No, it's
just been fun. fun learning and fun going to
DC and helping serve and just you know met so
many good friends and And it's just been a fun
ride Well, we appreciate you. We need people
like you that are willing to do that kind of
legwork We've really really appreciate it and
thanks for coming on the show again. You were
on about a year ago Yeah, and we had just started
to get some numbers on how bad the winter bee
die -off was Want to talk about that just a little
bit first and then we're gonna get on some positive
things talking about this year and some of that
but as a commercial beekeeper With what happened
last winter give me an idea of where your company
came out and other commercial beekeepers that
you saw Well, that's a good question. Unfortunately,
for us, we were well below the national average
or whatever, 62%. I had some of my friends that
had some of their worst losses on record. Even
like the famous Randy Oliver that writes for
the American Bee Journal, him and his sons had
high losses. So it just seems like no matter
what you do, the viral virus complex will get
you eventually. And I know there's a lot of variables.
between the amitras resistance and where you're
running and how you manage your bees. But talking
with Zach Lamas and all those guys that are involved
in the sampling, when all this happened last
winter, people pointed to amitras resistant mites
at the beginning, but it's pretty complex. And
a lot of it, you know, is got to be associated
with the viruses, maybe some pesticide pressure,
but Yeah, it's a complex mess and sometimes you
just don't you do the best you can and still
you'll have problems even if you go to the sheds
The winter or if you're even outside for the
winter, so it's they're just so many variables
Well, I was hoping you'd have some kind of clear
answer but Wow No still kind of don't know I
mean it just seems like there are several there's
there's some friends I put bees in here in the
almonds for They stuck three, four years straight,
great bees, great bees, and last year they didn't
have any bees for me to put in. They had such
high losses. And they had nothing to change on
their part. So, yeah, it's tough to say. Well,
that's why I wondered how important the amatras
resistance was in this whole formula. Because
a lot of people just don't do anything different,
and unfortunately sometimes we need to. Right,
right. Well... Yeah, we mix it up and everyone,
a lot of the friends that I know, they all mix
it up. They're using Okthalic, they're using
Formic, they're using Apigard, other things.
But still, the number one is Amitraz to keep,
especially in the fall, to have the quick knockdown.
There's like Betafarma is reformulating their
treatment of Amitraz to have more of a knockdown.
And there's some new things coming online that
we're excited about, but it's still By far amateur
as is you know what's carrying and keeping us
in business. Based on what happened this this
past year now that we're in twenty twenty six
I can call it last year did beekeepers do anything
different going towards this fall and winter.
I do know that some guys some of my friends didn't
get their numbers back up to their high colony
number because it was just too hard and you can't
you can only split so many. You can only make
so many nukes out of your good hives. Plus it's
expensive to buy packages or buy other people's
hives. Management style, I do know there are
more mite treatments. I've heard more oxalic
acid glycerin use multiple times during the year
with the pads. Yeah, just trying to change it
up and do more monitoring. Like the old Be Inform
Partnership guys are out monitoring more and
our employees are more than they had in the past.
I think those that had higher losses are even
seeking, you know, to get more control and more
monitoring of the mites. So what is the feeling?
Is it optimistic, pessimistic, somewhere in between?
Well, the two conventions, the last two I went
to, American Honey Producers and California State
Beekeeping, it was kind of depressing, I guess,
just because of the high losses. low honey price.
There was some good news on the almond side at
the price of almonds is going up and I do know
some guys are charging more for pollination because
there was a shortage last year for pollination.
That's kind of another funny topic is that some
of the almond growers are saying, hey, you had
this record high loss, but we still are going
to have this 2 .5, 2 .6 billion pound crop. Which
is what their estimate was way off some said
three billion two point nine billion which yeah
they had beautiful weather last year that was
probably the most important factor. As i do know
there was hives out there that were weaker than
normal but the beautiful weather one high per
acre can do it on a rainy year. Bad weather you
got to have multiple ice breakers so it could
have been way worse for the only girls but they
have beautiful weather. with probably weaker
hives and I know there was some orchards that
were lacking hives because I put some in for
a friend you know way past bloom that had no
bees in it so I was putting the very last remainder
of my hives just in the dead center of this big
huge three four hundred acre block of almonds
so they had something out there so so it almost
sounds like the growers are saying hey we had
less bees and that was okay so maybe we don't
need as many bees in the future is that part
of the economics? Well some are saying that but
the more seasoned experienced growers know they
had beautiful flight time and if they didn't
have that they would have been in trouble and
that's why a lot of guys I mean it's a deep insurance
policy if you want to put it that way to have
two three highs per acre to make sure you have
the highs needed to pollinate that crop. Yeah
that totally makes sense. Give me an idea of
what's the buzz out there how are people feeling?
Pretty good about This upcoming almond season
i did hear in north dakota that there are some
guys that still had high might since september
and september can quite get under control. There's
some consolidation in the business some some
big big beekeepers selling out. One went to private
equity firm so there's some consolidation some
other guys buying other guys out which you do
get usually you know when prices are low and
people want to get out and they're tired of it
there's some optimism i think with some of the
things going with the dumping suit there's there's
things i can't talk about attorney client privilege
but there's some. Things in the works that will
hopefully help with the price getting up to share
and then there's a big push. There's some new
leadership at Subi, the biggest, you know, the
largest co -op in the United States trying to
promote American honey. And we have some packer
buy -in and it seems like kind of that's the
next thing forward is like, let's do, cause the
national honey board by law, it's a checkoff
program and they can't promote us honey. And
now there's so much imports. Most of the checkoff
for that is foreign honey and foreign money anyways,
but we. We're thinking that yeah, it's time to
do it. Put some money in and put a concerted,
focused effort to the public to eat American
honey. I mean, we've tried in different forms
in the past, but it seems like there's a bigger
push this time. And that was like a big open
roundtable at the California State Beekeeping
Convention that was talked about and some good
input there. So hopefully we'll have some things
in the future to help on the honey price. Yeah,
I like it. The general public has no idea, right?
They they simply don't I know that you know that
and I was talking recently with Matt Malika and
we were talking about this too and the general
public they just they don't know what's in their
Honey bunches of oat cereal and they don't know
what's in that plastic bear that they're getting
at the grocery store If they did a lot of them
would say yeah I want something better. I want
the good stuff. I want it to be American so that
I know what's in it or for Canada, Canadian or
whatever. This really applies all over the world.
I love that you're doing that kind of stuff.
Yeah, we wish we could copy Canada and their
labeling laws. Our labeling laws have been updated
for whatever, 20, 30 years. That USDA grade A
doesn't mean anything. Everyone's looking the
price on the shelf. They're not looking somewhere
stamped on the side there. You see country of
origin, Argentina, Vietnam, India, Brazil, whatever.
We would love to have some teeth behind that.
So it would be like USDA. Or just say, copy Canada,
USA one would be USA honey 95 % or more. And
if it's below that, it's USA two or just number
one without the USA in it. So it can be more
obvious, but we're optimistic that Greg Stubbe
from Florida, you know, we got that bill, the
honey integrity act that we can get some things
done to help right the ship. I guess you could
say get some legislation that'll help beekeepers
and mainly get the honey price out. So that was
kind of a big success for the honey producers
this year is getting that pill through and partnering
with Senator Tuberville from Alabama I mean that
that was some there's some good things I guess
you could say on the horizon on testing and Hopefully
FDA getting access to Packers what they're testing
and then looking a little more oversight Basically
is what we're looking there's very few industries
that want more federal oversight. Well, we're
one of them I mean, it's so many hundreds of
millions of pounds of Honey coming in and we
just don't think all that sticky stuff is legit
Some of it is you know, especially in the industrial
market. We feel pretty confident stuff on the
shelf Especially with the Costco recall a few
years ago that it wasn't the country. They said
it was and they got sued the consumer is safe,
but Like they've told us in the past, as long
as anybody's dying, they don't care. Well, economic
adulterated adulteration is still cheating and
not good for the consumer and her speakeepers
in which are mostly small own family farms that
are pollinating most of our food that we eat.
I mean, do we want to import more food from Mexico
and Canada and other places, or do we want to
grow our own food? I think COVID showed us we
want to be more independent and not dependent
on other countries and that's keeping us in business
is a national food security issue so we keep
pounding that drum. Amen to all of that. People
want to know what's in their food. Yeah. I think
more than ever because people are afraid of all
the bad stuff going into food and if I go to
the store and buy something that says honey,
it should be honey. It shouldn't have high fructose
corn syrup or water or any whatever else might
be in it. It should be honey. But people don't
realize that that's not what they're getting.
So if you could do some kind of a national campaign
that would lift that awareness that would be
awesome. Tell me a little bit more about the
legislation. You mentioned a couple of points
but dive a little deeper into that. Well, mainly,
it's like I'm saying it would be the oversight,
FDA oversight, the Packers, they would have access
to what the Packers are already testing that
honey. They would have access to those reports.
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save. Part of the problem we're seeing is that
a lot of the Packers are getting their results,
and it's Germany, to be honest. You know, there's
like basically no American lab now. There used
to be one at the University of Missouri, and
that one closed down. And then a lot of friends
would ask and colleagues, and they would send
their honey to British Columbia to a lab. And
evidently, he's slowing down and getting away
from that. So by far, almost all the honey that's
consumed, part of it is even the Fournheim coming
in is going to Germany. And there are partial
test results coming back and not the full spectrum,
especially on NMR. I don't want to get too deep
into high resolution mass spec and all this other
testing, but there's partial test results coming
back. And so if we can get a little bit oversight
FDA and have access to those records, we feel
like that would in itself clean up a lot of the
foreign junk from coming in. Of course, the US
has some of their own testing, but they are so
overwhelmed. The last time we talked to them,
say they came out this summer to North Dakota,
one of our board members, and we spent the half
day with them, went to the bee yard, showed them
the extract plant, and they're just seeing a
lot of fraud coming from China, and they had
some questions. They wanted to see how we syrup,
how we feed bees, how we extract, etc. And they
recently had a bust, a little country, Myanmar.
I think it was Myanmar or was it Taiwan? Oh,
man, I can't remember. They had a bunch of syrup
from China. and they asked customs to help test
it and they helped and had a pretty good size
bust in over on the in Asia. We just want fair
we wanted a fair playing field and part of that
bill there's no labeling per se on it we that's
you know that would be step number two but just
enforcement that's probably the biggest part
of the whole bill. Well to me enforcement should
be not just saying This isn't what you say it
is. So we're sending it back to Taiwan now or
Vietnam or wherever. But this is not what you
say it is. So it's getting dumped or you're getting
a huge fine or something. Otherwise, they're
just going to take it back, stick a new label
on it. And it comes right back. Isn't that the
case? Right? No, it doesn't go back. It just
gets relabeled here is like syrup and stays here.
And we've asked for destruction. of the product.
But I guess, for the most part, they say that's
a non -starter for them, that we have to be in
the middle. So I mean, they have, Customs has
had cases in Chicago with the big honey gate
that they've gone to the dump and they took pictures
of them dumping the honey in the dump. But I
mean, just at least getting it out of the market
and out of the honey side, it goes into cattle
feed, whatever. But yeah, we're still working
on the details on that. And it sounds like testing
is a big deal. If things have to be sent all
the way to Germany to get tested, that is not
fast enough. No, I mean, it was a big point of
discussion at Appamondia in Copenhagen that I
went to in September. Just what tests and there's
some unproven tests on the whole metagenomics
and DNA barcoding stuff. A lot of that goes over
my head, but it's some of that's unproven and
you got to stay with stuff that's proven. The
European Union is pretty aligned with the United
States and they talk to each other, but the testing,
it's a huge point of discussion and you always
have to stay in front of the fraudsters, right?
So you always, they're always, these designer
syrups are designed to cheat the test. So you're
always trying to improve and get better and better.
Man, all right. What else economically needs
to happen? Well, I mean, along with agriculture,
we're suffering with low prices. I mean, the
honey price is one of them. We finally got some
relief this year. A lot of that probably is the
Trump administration that the AEWR for our H
-2A visa workers, it went down for the first
time in like over a decade or more, maybe 15
years. I didn't look it up. And that's finally
brought some relief because we're just like all
the farmers I talked to in North Dakota, South
Dakota. Corn soy wheat really low producer prices
but everything else stays up i mean you know
you go to the grocery store fertilizer still
up fuel is still up labor is record high so all
these things are up but we're getting really
twenty year old price so that a w r will help
us to a small degree on the labor side because
in the past are brand new workers that would
come in would be making whatever nineteen seventy
or twenty dollars an hour. You trying to have
a differential between your best guys that have
been with you five ten fifteen twenty years and
guys that can drive forklift trucks. No bees
better than other guys but there was the gap
was it was artificially narrowed because of the
high a w r. So the alternative the wage rate
so it's now we can get back to that bigger rage
for your best guys that know the beers better
be keepers no trucks drive forklift. and your
rookies can go back lower. That will help us.
Just the bottom line. So that was probably a
good win this year. And then honestly, economic
wise, we had a really big win. Elap, you know,
Eric Silver, our lobbyist for Honey Producers,
that was also in the big, beautiful bill. Some
of the largest producers were not eligible if
your income was above whatever 900 ,000. So now
with that waiver, everybody can collect Elap,
which is fair. So, I mean, we probably will be
approaching $100 million probably this year,
ELAP payments. That's helping people stay in
business with these low honey prices and these
huge hive losses. So that was a big win on the
ELAP side. Well, we need the commercial beekeepers.
Plain and simple. It's a huge part of our economy,
our food supply, everything else. So someone
recently made a comment to me that I thought
was very unfair and called commercial beekeepers
just livestock handlers. And I said maybe some
are, but I also know some guys like Chris that
I really think love honey bees and love what
they do. Give me an idea of where you come from
on all this. Yeah, I mean I have a passion for
it and I see the importance of it of the food
supply and being an important cog in the wheel
to keep things going but It to some degree. Yeah,
we are livestock Handlers, I guess you could
say but there's a lot more. I mean, it's not
A plus B equals C. Like, you know, with the chicken,
you have this much input, blah, blah, blah. Beekeeping
is an art. It's so hard. I mean, there's experience
of a lot of private equity buying beekeepers
and or almond growers buying beekeeping outfits
and it being ran into the ground and bankrupt
in two, three years. So you know, new beekeepers
need to apprentice and learn. It's a trade and
it's a beautiful trade, but it's definitely takes
years to master. And I'm still not there yet.
Look, I mean, you look at some of these guys
that I know that have ran bees for 40, 50 years
and still have losses as many as they do. It's
a lot of work and even more. I had a good friend
in Eastern Washington. I grew up and he was a
farmer and a rancher and he says he told my dad
one time. Did you beekeepers even put the dairyman
to shame the way the hours you're working, you
know, and my dad grew up milking cows because
it's late night hours moving bees and you got
to work all day, get the bees ready to go into
the next pollination set or pulling honey or
run out of supers and there's not enough hours
in the day. So yes, we're livestock, but I it's
more beautiful and. It's a lot more nuanced.
I guess than just handling a cow or something.
We're strategically moving the highs where we
think they'll do the best and I mean pulling
them out of places and into places in the right
time so and just managing and trying to keep
You know these beautiful creatures alive. So
and they smell better than cows. Yeah, that's
true I like the smell of honey pulling honey
though when you have to use Vigo that of course
a lot of people don't like that Do you have any
advice for hobby beekeepers out there? Always
just don't walk away from it. I just hear story
after story of you know friends of mine have
a couple highs that just Just put in the backyard
and leave it alone. You got to take care of it
You got to check it. You got to feed it. You
got to medicate it all these things I mean, I
was telling hobbies other day about paw and patties.
They didn't know about ball and patties and There's
a lot of things to do a lot of inputs to keep
these hives healthy and alive Especially during
the winter that they had no idea. So I would
just say Any hobbyist you've got to stay on top
of it basically you got to visit that thing at
least once a month and Work it pull honey Replace
a queen whatever it is. You're my checks. Yeah
my checks I have friends who have Casually gotten
into it like what you've explained and they either
quit or they learn hey Yeah, I do love these
bees. I need to get busy and learn a lot I have
other neighbors around here with horses. I think
you have to learn every bit as much, if not more,
about bees as if you had horses. Yeah, yeah,
100%. Honestly, I think it's harder because there's
a lot more proven, you know, and you can control...
The environment more like the horse in a pasture
where bees they're flying two three four miles
picking up you don't know what from a field that
got sprayed or someone's house that sprayed something
or Yeah, it's it's way more of a wild card. There's
so many more uncertainties. I think uncertainties
You know the chickens and turkeys they're all
in that house and it's bio controlled No one
goes in except for the workers and blah blah
blah Honey bees are flying dust mops that fly
so many miles, but you don't know where they're
getting water from. And I get that every drought
year. I'll put out a brand new barrel of water,
55 gallons next to the hive, and they'll still
fly a mile to someone's house to a dirty cattle
trough. And I'm like, why are you doing that
for? Or to a chlorinated swimming pool. Yeah,
that's true. We have all experienced that. They're
goofy. I think that's part of why we love them.
Yep. All right. You have a new wild and crazy
story for us since last time. I don't remember
what yours was last time. So if you repeat it,
I won't even know the difference. But every beekeeper
has funny stories. Let's hear one. OK, July.
It's a sad story. It's a good story and a sad
story. So I have a beer right on the Montana,
North Dakota state line, literally like quarter
mile. And as you look. Over to Montana. It's
all nothing but grass. There's nothing planted
So it's only good on a clover year, which happens
that area is only like every three four years
five years You might get clover Anyways, my son
and I and one of my best guys Diego We're pulling
honey course of thunderstorms comes through and
that first clap of lightning. We're halfway pulling
the honey We just leave the gath boards on like
hey, let's get in the truck We wait ten minutes
and it blows through didn't rain too much We
get out and just the honey was really heavy Beautiful
would start of the season probably 10th of July
12th of July. It was just fun I love working
with my only son pulling honey we get home and
I have a biologist buddy in North Dakota That
he's a good birdwatcher good birder that he's
the number one like fish and game what he called
that game bird guy, right so he's on the little
local Bismarck station and Right by my be yard
and I knew this there's a LEC for sage -grouse,
you know the LEC is Eric That's where they dance.
So for thousands of years the males go and dance
for the females and you know That's how you get
new little sage -grouse. So the lek is where
they dance They dance every year at that same
spot the males and the females will go to the
male and if you ever seen pictures of sage -grouse
or prairie chicken They fluff up their feathers
and they have the big like air sack and it's
really pretty iconic species of the sagebrush
west, right? I've seen the dance. I just didn't
know they went to a grouse disco to do it. Yep.
The same spot every year. Usually a little dirty
grassy mound so the females can see them and
they got they boom loud. Anyways. So this was
the very last lech in North Dakota that they
knew that sage grouse were dancing. And this
April, this past April, they had zero sage grouse.
So they think, well, that's it for sage grouse
in the state of North Dakota. I see one, I've
seen probably two, three in my lifetime, because
they're just right in that corner in the Badlands,
some into South Dakota, Wyoming. Montana. But
anyways, just because, you know, habitat has
gone away. So that was kind of my point. I told
the story at the California meeting is that it's
habitat loss and we're never going to get it
back. And it's kind of sad that, you know, our
honey production is down because there's so much
corn and soy planted and the grasslands are going
away. And we really need conservation and the
CRP acres, the conservation reserve where they're
paid not to farm, those are going away. And so
we need like a renaissance of protected acreage
that have cover crops on them and just not to
help bees, but to help all other species, insects
and birds and mammals. So anyways, I guess that
wasn't a crazy story with the lightning, but
it ended up being a sad story, but a lesson in
it, I guess we need good habitat. Yeah, more
and more habitat. There are a couple of nonprofit
groups out there that are trying to help with
that a little bit and we wish them well. We need
a ton more. Oh yeah. They're getting at a few
hundred or a few at the most thousand acres a
year and we need millions of acres it sounds
like. The honey bees are sort of the canary in
the coal mine too. Yeah, yeah. If they're suffering
you can bet the the grouse and other things that
you don't even see are having some of the same
problems. Hey I won't keep you too much longer,
but I do have one question that somebody asked
me this morning, and I thought I had a brilliant
answer for, but it probably wasn't. That is,
out here in the western part of the United States,
we have had a long, warm fall. Here in the mountains
of Utah, we don't even have winter yet. How is
that affecting the bees? And if it's hard on
them, what can we do to help? Well feed number
one we saw the same thing in north dakota this
fall we usually have you know four forty four
four forty four fifty six on a load for thirty
two lot of them came down at four eighty five
twelve so they eat and a lot of that stores we
left for them cuz it was way above average well
in november there was some fifties a few sixties
usually down in the twenties and thirties. And
so we've had to feed this this winter a lot more
than we have in the past. I would get out if
I was, you know, if you're in Utah or whatever
in the Mountain West and you don't want your
hive to starve, definitely go feed them because
they'll be out flying even though there's nothing
for them to do. They'll just use up their use
instead of hibernating and staying in that nice
cluster. They're out flying, using their calories
and burning it up. So yeah, feed them. Well,
and that's what we see. You know, we've had a
lot of days that it's in the mid to high 50s,
even some low 60s. And this isn't just Utah.
I've spoken with people in Montana and Colorado
and a bunch of other states here. And, you know,
the bees are flying around and they're coming
back with nada. So there's waste in it. They're
not only burning through their reserves, but
I hope they're not wearing themselves out too
much. Winter bees aren't really meant to be doing
that, are they? Nope, they aren't. And so that's
why you might have a smaller cluster coming out
of winter. And my main concern is don't let them
starve. You're going to have to probably do more
protein patties and more corn syrup to feed them.
Feed, feed, feed. All right. Any other great
wisdom you want to leave with us, Chris? No.
Be ready. We might have some letters to we want
from different states for our congressmen when
we are ready to move the Honey Integrity Act
forwards. But we'll get the word out. But yeah,
we might need some grassroots reports. That's
something everybody can do is support those kinds
of things. Write the letters when they come up.
It's the little things like that we can jump
in and do. Hey, Chris, I really appreciate it.
Oh, Eric, I was gonna say one thing we on that
Beltsville, Maryland lab, the Trump administration,
that's one bad thing they've done. They want
to close it down. We've got pretty good support
and a lot of letters in and I've been on a bunch
of the calls. You know, trying to keep it open
because any time you close the lab, less than
half the people go relocate because they don't
want to move for that. And that's our flagship
B lab and they do the National Disease Survey.
It's important. So anyways, I just want to kudos
to those that wrote letters and helped on. We
don't know yet, but yeah, on the Beltsville lab.
Hopefully it'll still be there. Yeah, I hope
so. All right. Chris, I appreciate it. I'd love
to have you back from time to time. Sorry, I
missed you at Epimonia. If I knew you were there,
we could have gotten together. Yeah, sorry. I
got that from a lot of people. I goofed off a
couple days, too, because you're in a new country.
You got to go see it. And with eight to ten thousand
people in that convention center, you know, there's
no way you're going to accidentally or almost
no way. Oh, yeah, there's Chris over there. Yeah.
Anyway, thanks. Appreciate your time. OK, thanks,
Eric. Thanks for joining us on Be Love Beekeeping
presented by Man Lake. If you like this content
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and now Varroxan, Extended Release Oxalic Acid
Strips. Thanks guys, and remember, if you're
not just in it for the honey or the money, you're
in it for the love. See you next week.