WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.660 in a world brimming with complexity few creatures 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:12.839 embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:17.699 precision she dances from bloom to bloom each 00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:22.420 motion guided by millennia upon millennia of 00:00:22.420 --> 00:00:28.800 instinct each act in service to the whole and 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:34.560 then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:40.500 of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist, 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.460 part poet, they move along their hives with the 00:00:45.460 --> 00:00:50.539 efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to 00:00:50.539 --> 00:00:54.219 the bees' needs as best they can comprehend, 00:00:54.859 --> 00:00:59.670 and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the 00:00:59.670 --> 00:01:05.590 Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing 00:01:05.590 --> 00:01:12.150 like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their 00:01:12.150 --> 00:01:29.299 journey. Today we're kicking off the year with 00:01:29.299 --> 00:01:32.120 Matt Malicka from Honey Bee Health Coalition 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.819 to discuss the North American Bee Strategy. We'll 00:01:35.819 --> 00:01:38.840 learn all about the status of so many things 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.200 related to beekeeping, including the fair market 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:46.719 of honey, pests, varroa, miticides, pesticides, 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.120 forage, diseases, honey authenticity, beekeeping 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:54.500 economics. It is a packed episode, but before 00:01:54.500 --> 00:01:58.370 we jump in, think about this. If you're a beekeeper, 00:01:58.969 --> 00:02:03.150 you are one of the cool kids. That's right, beekeeping 00:02:03.150 --> 00:02:07.209 has gone from nerds -ville to totally hip. Just 00:02:07.209 --> 00:02:10.110 listen to some of the celebs who share your passion. 00:02:10.750 --> 00:02:14.629 Rod Stewart and wife Penny Lancaster have eight 00:02:14.629 --> 00:02:18.509 hives on their estate. Ed Sheeran has bees. So 00:02:18.509 --> 00:02:21.629 does Stacy Solomon, Sir David Beckham, Beyoncé, 00:02:22.150 --> 00:02:24.530 King Charles, Queen Camilla, not together of 00:02:24.530 --> 00:02:29.030 course, Princess Kate. Megan Markle, Morgan Freeman, 00:02:29.449 --> 00:02:33.509 Scarlett Johansson, Leonardo DiCaprio, Sting, 00:02:33.889 --> 00:02:37.210 Jennifer Garner, John Bon Jovi, Christie Brinkley, 00:02:37.629 --> 00:02:40.930 Angelina Jolie, Bruce Springsteen, and of course, 00:02:41.389 --> 00:02:44.189 Martha Stewart. So don't be afraid to shout it 00:02:44.189 --> 00:02:47.090 loud and proud, you're a beekeeper and it is 00:02:47.090 --> 00:02:50.949 cool. By the way, if any of you celebs would 00:02:50.949 --> 00:02:54.439 like to be on the show, Send an email to ericatbelovebekeeping 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:58.319 .com. I won't be holding my breath, but it would 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:05.460 be fun. I'd like to welcome to the show today, 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:08.680 we have a really special guest today, Matt Malicka. 00:03:09.020 --> 00:03:11.360 How are you, Matt? I'm doing well. How are you, 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:15.400 Eric? I'm doing fantastic. It is a beautiful 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:18.259 day here and you're just across the mountains 00:03:18.259 --> 00:03:22.180 from me in Colorado. We both need snow. It'll 00:03:22.180 --> 00:03:26.199 come. Yeah. Yep. It's a little too warm for this 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:29.360 time of year, but it'll come. Always does. We're 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:32.199 going to be talking today about the North American 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:35.560 Bee Strategy report, which came out recently. 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:39.340 And man, there's a lot to it. We'll try not to 00:03:39.340 --> 00:03:42.900 get too technical or too... or two in the weeds, 00:03:43.699 --> 00:03:46.639 but give some practical advice that's come from 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:50.120 all of this. And why don't you just jump in with 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.139 giving us a brief, what the heck is the North 00:03:53.139 --> 00:03:56.680 American Bee Strategy and why do you do it? Sure. 00:03:56.819 --> 00:04:00.139 So I run the Honey Bee Health Coalition. And 00:04:00.139 --> 00:04:03.900 so this is a group that brings together beekeepers 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:09.550 in agriculture. The beekeeping industry has You 00:04:09.550 --> 00:04:12.550 know, a couple different associations, and more 00:04:12.550 --> 00:04:14.710 when you look at U .S. and Canada. It's kind 00:04:14.710 --> 00:04:16.670 of a hierarchy, right? You have your local clubs, 00:04:17.290 --> 00:04:19.589 you have your state associations, and then you 00:04:19.589 --> 00:04:22.300 have your regional associations like... W -A 00:04:22.300 --> 00:04:24.620 -S -E -A -S and H -A -S. And then you have your 00:04:24.620 --> 00:04:26.639 national associations, American Honey Producers 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:29.139 Association and the American Beekeeping Federation. 00:04:29.620 --> 00:04:32.279 In Canada, they have a similar kind of structure, 00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:36.040 but clubs, provinces, and the national associations. 00:04:36.540 --> 00:04:39.100 And the national associations are the Canadian 00:04:39.100 --> 00:04:41.699 Beekeeping Federation and the Canadian Honey 00:04:41.699 --> 00:04:45.589 Council. We share a almost all the same problems. 00:04:46.110 --> 00:04:48.990 Bees don't recognize borders. I was approached 00:04:48.990 --> 00:04:53.269 18 months ago or so by the national associations 00:04:53.269 --> 00:04:57.610 of the U .S. and Canada to come up with a strategy 00:04:57.610 --> 00:05:02.029 that they can all lean on together. And so we 00:05:02.029 --> 00:05:04.430 started meeting and started talking about, well, 00:05:04.430 --> 00:05:07.750 what are the most important things? And they 00:05:07.750 --> 00:05:10.629 came up with roughly the three big buckets of 00:05:10.629 --> 00:05:14.920 pests and disease. the honey markets in research. 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:18.920 You can go to Honey Bee Health Coalition, forward 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:22.519 slash N -A -B -S, and you can find this document 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:25.639 that they really spent a lot of time on. It goes 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:29.300 through varroa management and what's needed in 00:05:29.300 --> 00:05:32.540 varroa. It goes through tropa lay laps and how 00:05:32.540 --> 00:05:34.480 do we keep it out? And if it ever gets here, 00:05:34.500 --> 00:05:37.459 what do we do? It goes through... the honey markets 00:05:37.459 --> 00:05:41.959 and threats from adulteration and importing honey 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:44.120 that's not really honey and how you test those 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:46.879 things and how do you how do you prevent beekeepers 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:49.720 getting under priced by things that may not be 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:52.180 honey. And then it goes through research and 00:05:52.180 --> 00:05:56.939 how we really put forward more applied research, 00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:00.240 less hypothetical research, research that can 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.529 lead to better bee health outcomes. and give 00:06:03.529 --> 00:06:05.910 guidance to beekeepers on how to have healthier 00:06:05.910 --> 00:06:08.550 hives. And that URL that you mentioned, Matt, 00:06:08.689 --> 00:06:11.209 we'll stick that down on the show notes in case 00:06:11.209 --> 00:06:14.050 anybody wants to pull it up. It's a really beautiful 00:06:14.050 --> 00:06:17.889 PDF with pretty pictures and stuff, 29 pages 00:06:17.889 --> 00:06:23.329 long, but not 29 pages of five point type. It's 00:06:23.329 --> 00:06:27.069 a really good summary of the whole all these. 00:06:27.259 --> 00:06:30.259 Three main areas that you talked about you could 00:06:30.259 --> 00:06:32.959 do a hundred pages on each one of those easily 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:37.439 So if people want more detail, I don't know. 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.379 Where's a good place to start? When you talk 00:06:40.379 --> 00:06:44.120 about for example adulterated honey, I think 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.620 it really depends on What information they're 00:06:47.620 --> 00:06:51.300 seeking there is resources in the back and references 00:06:51.300 --> 00:06:53.879 So if they if they go there then they want to 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:55.920 learn more I would say that would be a great 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:58.899 place to start The Honey Bee Health Coalition, 00:06:59.420 --> 00:07:04.019 we focus on bee health. And we know that bees 00:07:04.019 --> 00:07:07.519 are in and around agriculture all the time. Like 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:11.500 beekeepers don't have enough land to own where 00:07:11.500 --> 00:07:13.439 they can keep their bees. So there's always going 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:16.759 to be these interactions with agriculture. And 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:19.300 so that's really the foundation for where the 00:07:19.300 --> 00:07:21.680 Honey Bee Health Coalition is coming from, which 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:25.319 is beekeepers and farmers. like really need to 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:28.540 be partners in this so that we can continue providing 00:07:28.540 --> 00:07:32.120 healthy fruits and vegetables and feed for the 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:34.100 meats and all of the things that agriculture 00:07:34.100 --> 00:07:39.139 does can't be at the detriment of bees and other 00:07:39.139 --> 00:07:41.339 native pollinators. You can go to the Honey Bee 00:07:41.339 --> 00:07:42.980 Health Coalition and find a lot of information 00:07:42.980 --> 00:07:46.399 on varroa and hive management and protecting 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.879 your bees from pesticides and all the things 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:52.560 that we do. On our website we don't talk so much 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:56.029 about honey markets because that's that's more 00:07:56.029 --> 00:07:59.889 of like the health of an industry and We're more 00:07:59.889 --> 00:08:03.790 focused on bee health I think it's a very practical 00:08:03.790 --> 00:08:06.889 hands -on place to go honeybee health coalition 00:08:06.889 --> 00:08:09.949 org Because you've got the Varroa management 00:08:09.949 --> 00:08:13.230 guide and the Varroa management decision tool 00:08:13.230 --> 00:08:15.129 Which I was playing around with this morning 00:08:15.129 --> 00:08:18.810 and I've used it before and it's a really simple 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:22.259 like Okay, what time of year is it? Where are 00:08:22.259 --> 00:08:25.779 your bees at in the life cycle? Are they dormant? 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:29.720 Is the population increasing or decreasing? Are 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:35.200 you okay using chemicals versus Natural techniques 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:38.580 or cultural techniques? Thank you. Natural chemicals 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:42.120 too, like your acids and things like that. So 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:46.240 that Honey Bee Health Coalition website is awesome 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:48.879 and a really good tool. It's really practical, 00:08:49.100 --> 00:08:51.059 hands -on kind of stuff. That's what I like about 00:08:51.059 --> 00:08:54.899 it for beekeepers of any size. And we'll go back 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:57.299 and forth talking about that in the North American 00:08:57.299 --> 00:09:00.789 Bee Strategy Report. I have some questions getting 00:09:00.789 --> 00:09:03.690 back to that report, if you don't mind, Matt. 00:09:04.029 --> 00:09:06.789 For those that haven't heard much about tropal 00:09:06.789 --> 00:09:11.590 elapse, give us a non -scientific. What the heck 00:09:11.590 --> 00:09:14.269 is this thing and how do we keep it from invading? 00:09:15.110 --> 00:09:19.429 So tropal elapse, I think, are originally from 00:09:19.429 --> 00:09:23.429 Southeast Asia and like Vietnam and Thailand. 00:09:23.769 --> 00:09:30.200 And they're a pest or a parasite of Apis serrana 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:32.940 and Apis dorsata. So all of our honeybees are 00:09:32.940 --> 00:09:35.960 Apis mellifera, the European honeybee. This is 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.240 like the giant Asian honeybee. They're about 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:42.840 a quarter of the size of a Varroa mite and they're 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:46.100 incredibly fast. So you look at them on a hive 00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:49.200 and they are moving around at, I don't know, 00:09:49.659 --> 00:09:53.480 10 times the speed of a Varroa mite. If they 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:57.620 hit North American beekeepers, it's going to 00:09:57.620 --> 00:10:01.799 be devastating. They reproduce quickly. They, 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:04.379 you know, have the same detrimental effects of 00:10:04.379 --> 00:10:08.000 varroa in spreading and disease. They can move 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.340 through different colonies quickly. And so right 00:10:10.340 --> 00:10:14.000 now we do not have them and we're trying to keep 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:17.820 them out. Incidentally, about this last summer, 00:10:18.179 --> 00:10:21.320 there was a cargo ship off, you know, the coast 00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:24.899 of New Jersey that was traveling into the U .S. 00:10:24.899 --> 00:10:28.129 and they found a swarm. and they destroyed that 00:10:28.129 --> 00:10:32.250 swarm. And apiary inspector came out, took a 00:10:32.250 --> 00:10:36.590 sample of the dead bees, and they found AAA labs 00:10:36.590 --> 00:10:40.730 on this. So the protocols worked, right? The 00:10:40.730 --> 00:10:44.750 captain found the swarm, they called it in, they 00:10:44.750 --> 00:10:47.710 destroyed it, we got samples, but it reminds 00:10:47.710 --> 00:10:50.970 us, geez, that was a close call, right? So just 00:10:50.970 --> 00:10:53.769 like the Varroa infestation or introduction in 00:10:53.769 --> 00:10:58.840 the mid to eighties, Once it gets here, because 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:02.679 of our migratory colonies, and the number of 00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:05.919 colonies, and also just the size of our colonies, 00:11:06.460 --> 00:11:09.500 it's going to be next to impossible to stop the 00:11:09.500 --> 00:11:12.480 spread of tropal ellipse. So that's the highest 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:15.580 level of Jesus is an important issue. And we 00:11:15.580 --> 00:11:19.460 can talk to people in Australia that not many 00:11:19.460 --> 00:11:22.279 years ago, Varroa finally showed up and it spread 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:24.779 through that country so fast that they couldn't 00:11:24.779 --> 00:11:28.000 stop it. They tried and it was just it was just 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.940 too late and they also do a lot of migratory 00:11:30.940 --> 00:11:34.299 beekeeping there like we do here in North America 00:11:34.299 --> 00:11:37.580 which is how it spread so darn fast. I did read 00:11:37.580 --> 00:11:40.639 recently that Canadian beekeepers have asked 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:44.039 their government to I believe outlaw imports 00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:47.480 of bee colonies from anywhere outside of North 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:50.759 America. Is that the case? They've asked that 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:55.360 They not import bees from areas that have tropal 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:59.299 elaps or countries that are adjacent to those 00:11:59.299 --> 00:12:01.659 countries that have tropal elaps. So I don't 00:12:01.659 --> 00:12:03.980 think they're saying nothing from the whole world, 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:07.200 but we kind of know where tropal elaps is and 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:10.259 isn't. Let's not import bees from areas where 00:12:10.259 --> 00:12:13.360 it might be, or we know it is. Do we have any 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.139 in South or Central America? I don't believe 00:12:16.139 --> 00:12:19.379 so. Okay. So we don't have to worry too much 00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:22.080 about if we're bringing bees, say, from Mexico 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:26.000 up. In the North American Bee Strategy, that's 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.940 in a link to an evolving map because obviously 00:12:28.940 --> 00:12:31.519 it's moving. But yeah, you could take a look 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:36.139 at that. Thailand, Vietnam, China, India, Georgia, 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:41.820 Uzbekistan, Russia is an unknown, Ukraine likely 00:12:41.820 --> 00:12:45.080 has it. And then it has not spread further than 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:48.389 that. Yeah. Then it shows further south, Indonesia, 00:12:49.149 --> 00:12:51.850 New Guinea, Vietnam, places like that. And then 00:12:51.850 --> 00:12:55.669 you mentioned that research is a real big part 00:12:55.669 --> 00:12:59.710 of what we're talking about. With all of this, 00:12:59.710 --> 00:13:02.370 and I assume some of the research even going 00:13:02.370 --> 00:13:06.850 on from here is about these tropemites, because 00:13:06.850 --> 00:13:09.490 if they get here, we need to know what to do 00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:12.029 about it. Is that what you're finding? Yeah, 00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:16.330 there's a ton of research on how Southeast Asian 00:13:16.330 --> 00:13:20.909 beekeepers control Varroa. So you have Auburn 00:13:20.909 --> 00:13:23.149 does a lot of great work with Jeff Williams and 00:13:23.149 --> 00:13:28.629 Sammy Ramsey out of CU Boulder, Colorado. And 00:13:28.629 --> 00:13:30.570 a lot of this is funded through Project APIS 00:13:30.570 --> 00:13:35.129 -M. And they're really just understanding the 00:13:35.129 --> 00:13:39.509 impacts in the control methods that beekeepers 00:13:39.509 --> 00:13:43.940 who have tropal alapse are using. And a big one 00:13:43.940 --> 00:13:48.879 is brood breaks and also formic acid. There are 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:51.740 so many parts of this report that I know that 00:13:51.740 --> 00:13:54.600 we don't have time to get into all of them. What 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:57.000 things stand out to you that we really should 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:01.019 discuss, especially with hobbyists and sideline 00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:03.620 beekeepers? You know, I think the importance 00:14:03.620 --> 00:14:06.919 of controlling Varroa, being a live and let die 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:10.049 beekeeper is not a management technique. that 00:14:10.049 --> 00:14:12.509 you have your choice on how to manage it, whether 00:14:12.509 --> 00:14:16.509 through synthetic chemicals, natural compounds 00:14:16.509 --> 00:14:20.450 like oxalic acid, cultural techniques like brood 00:14:20.450 --> 00:14:24.330 breaks and requeening. But just thinking that 00:14:24.330 --> 00:14:29.350 this European honeybee will somehow evolve to 00:14:29.350 --> 00:14:32.029 control Varroa without any human intervention 00:14:32.029 --> 00:14:36.070 is not really a management technique. And that's 00:14:36.070 --> 00:14:38.129 one thing that these groups came together on 00:14:38.129 --> 00:14:40.720 is saying, you know, you have to do something. 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:43.740 If you don't do something, you will infect your 00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:46.559 neighbor's hives. You will infect other hives. 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:48.440 You're not going to be, you're not a successful 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:51.419 beekeeper if you do absolutely nothing to manage 00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:53.460 for ROA. I think that's important that they came 00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:56.259 together and said that. It may seem early, but 00:14:56.259 --> 00:14:58.899 right now is a great time to order your live 00:14:58.899 --> 00:15:03.539 bees for 2026 because they do sell out and because 00:15:03.539 --> 00:15:06.820 Man Lake is offering a discount for Be Love podcast 00:15:06.820 --> 00:15:10.320 listeners. Wait, what? I know you're saying live 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.980 bees, they never go on sale. Well, they are now. 00:15:14.419 --> 00:15:17.279 Click on over to Man Lake, order your bees any 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:20.899 variety, nukes or packages, and anything in the 00:15:20.899 --> 00:15:24.100 beginner essentials category. And when you check 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:27.460 out, use the code getstartedinbees, it's down 00:15:27.460 --> 00:15:29.340 in the show notes so you don't have to remember, 00:15:29.860 --> 00:15:33.100 for a discount on everything. So get your orders 00:15:33.100 --> 00:15:37.110 in early and save. That there needs to be more 00:15:37.110 --> 00:15:40.129 coordination between the U .S. and Canadian governments. 00:15:40.509 --> 00:15:43.710 We are in this together. And while beekeepers 00:15:43.710 --> 00:15:47.470 can do a lot, we also need the help of the federal 00:15:47.470 --> 00:15:50.149 government and also the apiary inspectors and 00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:55.610 others. I would say that it's a really good starting 00:15:55.610 --> 00:15:58.730 place and it's also going to be a living document 00:15:58.730 --> 00:16:02.629 as this is an ever -evolving issue. Back to what 00:16:02.629 --> 00:16:05.259 you were saying about management. I'm going to 00:16:05.259 --> 00:16:08.299 use myself as a really bad example of someone 00:16:08.299 --> 00:16:11.620 that was very ignorant when I got into this many 00:16:11.620 --> 00:16:15.240 years ago. I heard about Varroa and I thought, 00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:18.480 well, I'm buying a couple of packages of bees. 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.820 I don't know any other beekeepers around me, 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.980 so mine aren't going to get infected with Varroa. 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.259 I'll be fine not doing anything with them. Like 00:16:29.259 --> 00:16:31.620 the flu. If I'm not around someone with the flu, 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:34.340 I'm not going to catch it, right? The ignorance 00:16:34.340 --> 00:16:39.259 that I had was that your packages probably have 00:16:39.259 --> 00:16:44.279 Varroa already, almost for sure do, or your nukes. 00:16:44.620 --> 00:16:47.899 If they don't, you have neighbors, even if you 00:16:47.899 --> 00:16:50.580 don't know them, that are within with bees that 00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:53.389 are within flying distance of yours. or there 00:16:53.389 --> 00:16:56.210 are some native colonies within flying distance 00:16:56.210 --> 00:16:59.590 of yours. To think that you can be isolated and 00:16:59.590 --> 00:17:03.889 not get Varroa is just silly and is completely 00:17:03.889 --> 00:17:08.309 not even a thing. So, Varroa is a thing. We do 00:17:08.309 --> 00:17:11.450 have to deal with it and there's a lot of different 00:17:11.450 --> 00:17:13.190 ways to do that. We're not going to tell you 00:17:13.190 --> 00:17:16.329 how to do it. The Honey Bee Health Coalition 00:17:16.329 --> 00:17:19.170 has a great resource as are a whole bunch of 00:17:19.170 --> 00:17:22.009 others. And one more other thing, we are just 00:17:22.009 --> 00:17:24.809 about to release the ninth edition of the Tools 00:17:24.809 --> 00:17:28.250 for Viroa Management Guide. And so this is a 00:17:28.250 --> 00:17:30.309 major update. I think it took a year and a half. 00:17:30.690 --> 00:17:33.289 There's been a lot of new products since 2021 00:17:33.289 --> 00:17:36.950 that have been released and a lot of gaining 00:17:36.950 --> 00:17:40.490 of understanding of how we control Viroa and 00:17:40.490 --> 00:17:46.170 what those treatment thresholds are. Look for 00:17:46.170 --> 00:17:49.390 it in January or so, but we are very excited 00:17:49.390 --> 00:17:51.569 about this ninth edition of The Varroa Guide 00:17:51.569 --> 00:17:53.829 that's going to be coming out soon. That's fantastic 00:17:53.829 --> 00:17:55.750 because there are a number of new treatments. 00:17:56.269 --> 00:17:58.329 We've talked about a few of them here on the 00:17:58.329 --> 00:18:02.130 show. Let's talk about imported honey for a minute. 00:18:02.650 --> 00:18:04.950 I know there's a lot of adulterated honey out 00:18:04.950 --> 00:18:07.710 there. I've even seen the term kicked around, 00:18:08.109 --> 00:18:11.559 honey fraud. And these things just ruin the honey 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.279 market for everybody now the commercial beekeepers 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:18.559 I feel like most of them are resigned to the 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:22.660 fact that We're gonna sell our honey on the wholesale 00:18:22.660 --> 00:18:25.559 market We're gonna get two bucks a pound or some 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.059 ridiculously small price like that because there's 00:18:29.059 --> 00:18:32.099 so many Imports, could you talk to that subject 00:18:32.099 --> 00:18:35.460 a little bit? Yeah And I am not the expert on 00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:37.940 this. I will put that forward first and foremost. 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:41.700 I'm a facilitator and a mediator of this coalition, 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:43.940 but I know a little bit about it. What I can 00:18:43.940 --> 00:18:48.319 understand is that we can produce about 40 % 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:54.799 of the demand domestically. So out of the 2 .5 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:58.019 million hives or so that we have in the US, that 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:01.430 can produce 40 % of the demand. from Americans. 00:19:01.509 --> 00:19:03.829 And this is not just the honey that you see at 00:19:03.829 --> 00:19:06.930 your farmers markets, at your grocery stores. 00:19:07.369 --> 00:19:10.009 A lot of this is the honey that's in like Honey 00:19:10.009 --> 00:19:13.970 Nut Cheerios or our cookies and various other 00:19:13.970 --> 00:19:16.430 products that you buy at the grocery store. That 00:19:16.430 --> 00:19:20.250 honey that is used in products, it needs to be 00:19:20.250 --> 00:19:23.609 consistent. It needs to be, you know, cost effective. 00:19:24.190 --> 00:19:26.490 There's 60 % of the honey that we just don't 00:19:26.490 --> 00:19:29.740 have the bees to provide for our needs and demands 00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:34.319 within the US. But there's also a tremendous 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.980 financial incentive for companies around the 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:42.859 world to get honey into our markets that may 00:19:42.859 --> 00:19:45.200 not be honey at all. It could be high -fructose 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.000 corn syrup that was blended with honey. They're 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.700 always playing this game where they're one step 00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:54.099 ahead of our testers and regulators. It's very, 00:19:54.099 --> 00:19:58.740 very complicated. And consumers deserve to know 00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:02.559 whether they're consuming real honey or something 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:05.160 that's designed to look like and taste like real 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:08.339 honey. And so I think that's kind of the big 00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:10.160 takeaway of the North American bee strategy is 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:14.700 we need systems in place to test the honey, to 00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:17.099 understand the floral resources from which it 00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:20.980 came, and to hold people who are selling things 00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:23.259 that's labeled as honey, that's not honey, hold 00:20:23.259 --> 00:20:25.180 their feet to the fire a little bit. Instead 00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:28.539 of getting a shipment in that's mostly high fructose 00:20:28.539 --> 00:20:31.880 corn syrup or whatever it is and sending it back, 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:38.039 destroy it. Actually have a cost for sending 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:42.039 something to the U .S. that you label as one 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:44.299 thing, but it's not that thing. That product 00:20:44.299 --> 00:20:47.200 should be destroyed. It shouldn't be sent back 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.759 to whence it came so that it can be repackaged 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.240 and figured out and sold to someone else. I totally 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.720 agree with all that. The economics of this as 00:20:55.720 --> 00:21:00.839 I look at it if this honey or whatever it is 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.339 might probably is partially honey and let's say 00:21:04.339 --> 00:21:07.059 it it's adulterated with a bunch of high fructose 00:21:07.059 --> 00:21:11.220 corn syrup and So this honey can be produced 00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:15.079 really cheap in some other country Cheaper than 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.180 we can produce honey here that comes into the 00:21:18.180 --> 00:21:22.099 market. It drives the price of honey down Now 00:21:22.099 --> 00:21:26.180 you mentioned the 40 % I believe is how much 00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:29.140 of the honey we can produce here. I believe if 00:21:29.140 --> 00:21:32.460 the economics changed, if we could figure out 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:36.019 how to keep more of that adulterated cheap cheap 00:21:36.019 --> 00:21:40.619 honey product out of our market, beekeepers here 00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:45.440 could step up and say I want to produce this 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.619 much more honey if I can get this price for it. 00:21:48.670 --> 00:21:52.009 I think we could produce a lot more than 40%. 00:21:52.009 --> 00:21:54.589 But commercial beekeepers have to make their 00:21:54.589 --> 00:21:57.309 money on pollination instead. I don't know how 00:21:57.309 --> 00:22:00.670 that would work. I imagine you're right. You're 00:22:00.670 --> 00:22:03.410 a beekeeper. I'm not. Are we at the carrying 00:22:03.410 --> 00:22:07.289 capacity for how many bees can live and produce 00:22:07.289 --> 00:22:11.769 honey and have a place to live? We won't know 00:22:11.769 --> 00:22:15.150 until the economics change. Yeah. And I'm trying 00:22:15.150 --> 00:22:18.569 to think about it. I don't know if it's... We 00:22:18.569 --> 00:22:23.210 produce 60 % of our needs and import 40 % or 00:22:23.210 --> 00:22:26.130 if we produce 40 % of our needs and import 60. 00:22:26.230 --> 00:22:28.049 I'm a little confused on that. It's one of those 00:22:28.049 --> 00:22:30.950 two. Either way. We can't produce all of our 00:22:30.950 --> 00:22:33.529 demand. I'd love to see us produce all of our 00:22:33.529 --> 00:22:37.039 demand. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. That'd be good. Is 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:39.900 that ever going to happen? Who knows? And unfortunately, 00:22:40.099 --> 00:22:42.339 there just isn't a way to test all of that honey 00:22:42.339 --> 00:22:45.579 being imported. And this is where it comes back 00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:48.400 to what you're talking about, Matt, with these 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.539 different honey and beekeeping organizations 00:22:51.539 --> 00:22:55.519 working. with federal government entities you 00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.940 know that's a nasty word there but there are 00:22:58.940 --> 00:23:01.440 times and places we need to work together and 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.380 that's certainly one of them another one is the 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:07.660 spread of diseases and things like that so well 00:23:07.660 --> 00:23:10.579 i'm going to get off my soap box now and jump 00:23:10.579 --> 00:23:14.450 down And let's talk a little bit about pesticides. 00:23:15.190 --> 00:23:18.529 Our bees are going to fly farther than we have 00:23:18.529 --> 00:23:22.230 land for. And I know you spend a lot of time 00:23:22.230 --> 00:23:26.950 with the relationship between ag and beekeepers. 00:23:27.369 --> 00:23:29.650 Tell me how that works. How's the relationship? 00:23:29.769 --> 00:23:32.690 Do we love each other? Is it kind of tough? How 00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:35.349 do we make that work better? I think it's getting 00:23:35.349 --> 00:23:39.880 better. So, in our country, when you have to 00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:44.759 register a pesticide, whether that's for a crop 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.400 pest, like an aphid or something, or whether 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:52.099 that's the varroa mite, you have to go abide 00:23:52.099 --> 00:23:56.000 by FIFRA, right? This is the federal law that 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.500 says you will need to do these tests and provide 00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:03.440 us this information and the EPA will evaluate 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:06.839 what you've put forward and deem if it's safe 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:11.180 for the humans and the environment. If it is 00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:15.000 safe for humans and the environment, then we 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.799 will register it. But you know, you talk to beekeepers 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.599 and they said, but my bees are still dying. And 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:24.220 you can see that there's acute effects from pesticides. 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:27.980 That's when a insecticide or something that's 00:24:27.980 --> 00:24:31.339 been tank mixed is sprayed. using an airplane 00:24:31.339 --> 00:24:34.700 or, you know, some kind of spray rig. And if 00:24:34.700 --> 00:24:36.440 you sprayed insecticide on a bee, it's going 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:40.039 to die. It's an insect. And then you also have 00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:42.339 like systemic pesticides, right? So these are 00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:44.339 the things that are put on seed coatings. So 00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:47.539 then beekeepers get exposed or bees get exposed 00:24:47.539 --> 00:24:51.019 to bees. And it really, if it's they can get 00:24:51.019 --> 00:24:53.400 weakened or they can get killed. I talked to 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:57.670 a lot of farmers and input costs. are a huge 00:24:57.670 --> 00:25:00.450 part of the equation of them running a successful 00:25:00.450 --> 00:25:03.569 business. So they don't really have an incentive 00:25:03.569 --> 00:25:06.509 to throw things into the field or put things 00:25:06.509 --> 00:25:09.670 down in the field unless there's an issue. And 00:25:09.670 --> 00:25:12.950 they have a lot invested in that field. And so, 00:25:12.970 --> 00:25:15.829 for example, you know, Almond Boar did a big 00:25:15.829 --> 00:25:20.430 evaluation of fungicides in fields. And if a 00:25:20.430 --> 00:25:23.950 farmer gets fungus, because they didn't lay down 00:25:23.950 --> 00:25:26.970 a fungicide, It's too late, so there's a certain 00:25:26.970 --> 00:25:30.309 amount of insurance that they can have by putting 00:25:30.309 --> 00:25:34.349 down a fungicide. It gets complicated, but there 00:25:34.349 --> 00:25:37.950 are ways that you can have healthy crops and 00:25:37.950 --> 00:25:41.390 healthy bees. Things like spraying at night or 00:25:41.390 --> 00:25:44.410 when bees aren't foraging have water sources 00:25:44.410 --> 00:25:49.170 that are free of pesticides. Placing bees kind 00:25:49.170 --> 00:25:53.130 of... upwind of crops. And so the prevailing 00:25:53.130 --> 00:25:56.769 winds don't blow or drift pesticides onto your 00:25:56.769 --> 00:26:00.230 bees using fluency agents, right? So a big thing 00:26:00.230 --> 00:26:03.829 is when these seeds rub against each other and 00:26:03.829 --> 00:26:07.710 when they're planting them and they off gas the 00:26:07.710 --> 00:26:12.650 pesticide seeds, it drifts onto hives. And that 00:26:12.650 --> 00:26:15.079 can really have a negative impact. There are 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.660 a lot of things that farmers can do and beekeepers 00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:22.500 that can protect bees. Planting forage, that's 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:25.240 a huge one, just like the human body, right? 00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:30.160 So imagine when COVID hit and you have people 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:35.539 that were healthy and strong and they were more 00:26:35.539 --> 00:26:38.980 apt to be able to withstand or recover from COVID. 00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:42.480 It's the same with bees. If bees are getting 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:44.880 good forage and they're nutritious and they've 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.940 got good water sources, then when they get hit 00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:51.759 by pesticides or varroa, they're going to be 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:55.119 stronger and able to survive that. So it's really 00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.440 just human health and bee health have a lot of 00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.220 similarities, but it's certainly a complicated 00:27:00.220 --> 00:27:02.500 topic and one that we delve pretty deeply into 00:27:02.500 --> 00:27:05.019 in the Honeybee Health Coalition. It is complicated. 00:27:05.619 --> 00:27:09.500 Would it be fair for me to put some herbicides 00:27:09.769 --> 00:27:13.009 in this conversation too. Yeah. You've mentioned 00:27:13.009 --> 00:27:16.150 the term pesticide a hundred times, fungicides 00:27:16.150 --> 00:27:19.769 twice. Herbicides can't all be safe, can they? 00:27:20.130 --> 00:27:23.650 Pesticides usually is herbicides, fungicides, 00:27:23.710 --> 00:27:27.589 and insecticides. Herbicides kill whatever plants 00:27:27.589 --> 00:27:29.589 they come in contact with unless they're like 00:27:29.589 --> 00:27:33.230 the plants are designed to withstand them. And 00:27:33.230 --> 00:27:37.670 so when you talk about healthy forage for bees 00:27:37.670 --> 00:27:42.390 and you have a compound that will kill those 00:27:42.390 --> 00:27:45.470 flowers, it's incredibly important that those 00:27:45.470 --> 00:27:49.069 herbicides stay where they are put down. And 00:27:49.069 --> 00:27:53.009 so if you have a lot of flowers that are right 00:27:53.009 --> 00:27:55.950 next to a field and herbicides drift onto them, 00:27:56.130 --> 00:27:58.890 they're going to kill the flowers and they're 00:27:58.890 --> 00:28:01.190 not going to be available for bees to forage 00:28:01.190 --> 00:28:04.650 on. And so certainly it's really important that 00:28:04.650 --> 00:28:07.660 we control herbicides. Also, you talk to these 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:12.900 experts who are bee pollinator forage planting 00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:16.519 experts. All they do is create habitat. What 00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:22.000 they recommend is that you lay down a year or 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:26.279 two of herbicides to kill all of the weeds before 00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:31.460 you plant a pollinator habitat. So you look at 00:28:31.460 --> 00:28:33.359 the Bee and Butterfly Habitat Fund, which is 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.359 basically the experts on this, and they have 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:39.839 a planting guide. And the biggest thing with 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.420 forage is that you don't want these weeds coming 00:28:42.420 --> 00:28:46.099 up and out competing your flowers in like years 00:28:46.099 --> 00:28:48.640 two and three. And so they say lay down herbicides. 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.660 Most certainly an herbicide that doesn't stay 00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:54.680 where it's intended to is going to kill flowers 00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:56.839 and the bees aren't going to have those flowers 00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.130 to forage on. Can't the chemical also hurt the 00:29:00.130 --> 00:29:04.309 bees if the bees get into it? For example, if 00:29:04.309 --> 00:29:08.069 a neighbor of mine is spraying an herbicide on 00:29:08.069 --> 00:29:13.769 some weeds that they have on a hot day and my 00:29:13.769 --> 00:29:17.910 bees are out in those flowers and those weeds 00:29:17.910 --> 00:29:20.930 and things. and they're picking up a little bit 00:29:20.930 --> 00:29:23.569 of that herbicide, plus some is being off -gassed, 00:29:23.630 --> 00:29:26.009 especially in heat, and then they're bringing 00:29:26.009 --> 00:29:28.609 that stuff back to the hive. Just because it's 00:29:28.609 --> 00:29:30.970 called an herbicide, does that mean it is safe 00:29:30.970 --> 00:29:34.529 for pollinators? You know, I'm not an ecotoxicologist, 00:29:34.549 --> 00:29:38.630 but I would think so, right? So yeah, yeah, like 00:29:38.630 --> 00:29:42.480 they're... bees aren't... haven't evolved to 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.559 be around herbicides, there are certain, across 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:49.559 all pesticides, the warning labels on... So the 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:53.039 pesticide applicator has to read the label. Label 00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.740 is the law. And so if there's a symbol on there 00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:59.859 that says, you know, do not spray when bees are 00:29:59.859 --> 00:30:02.680 present on a lot of these herbicides. That's 00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:06.220 like part of FIFRA. And so that is... It happens 00:30:06.220 --> 00:30:10.460 anyway, Matt. Sorry. No, I hear you. And I think 00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:14.420 Most certainly, like, all pesticides, fungicides, 00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:17.220 herbicides, insecticides have negative effects 00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:20.380 on bees. That's not to be argued with. That is 00:30:20.380 --> 00:30:23.299 100 % correct. Okay, thank you. And by the way, 00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:26.119 you hit the word of the day. What was it? Eco 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.900 what? Ecotoxicologist. Thank you. Ecotoxicologist. 00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:34.500 These are all the people. I am not really an 00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:37.259 expert on anything except process and bring people 00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:39.640 together. But there are, you know, there are 00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:43.619 We bring together beekeepers and ecotoxicologists 00:30:43.619 --> 00:30:48.839 and habitat development experts and all of these 00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:50.319 people. And that's what makes up the Honey Bee 00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:52.599 Health Coalition is all of these people sitting 00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:54.279 in a room together saying, what are we going 00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.160 to do about this? It's not easy. You're having 00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:59.940 multiple, multiple systems that are interacting. 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.500 Well, I appreciate your time today, Matt. It's 00:31:03.500 --> 00:31:07.960 good to know that there are some really Verified 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:10.400 quality places that we can go to do some of our 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:13.660 own research because we can't believe everything 00:31:13.660 --> 00:31:17.500 that we see on YouTube Even from other beekeepers 00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:20.400 Sorry, we can believe some of it. We can't believe 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.900 all of it problem is you don't know which have 00:31:22.900 --> 00:31:26.420 to believe but The things that you're working 00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:29.759 on We appreciate so we have some place to go 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:32.259 do the research. I'm gonna give you the last 00:31:32.259 --> 00:31:35.619 word Leave us with some kind of an overall summary 00:31:35.619 --> 00:31:39.680 takeaway that we as beekeepers can get from all 00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:43.799 this. I think it doesn't have to be a either 00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:48.900 or situation. Like, we can have food and bees. 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:52.279 We can have agriculture, conventional agriculture, 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:55.039 row crop agriculture, specialty crop agriculture, 00:31:55.779 --> 00:31:59.119 and healthy bees. And we're just trying to gain 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:01.940 our understanding of how to do that. So I do 00:32:01.940 --> 00:32:05.640 believe that we're all one big agricultural system 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:08.200 and that beekeepers are as much of a producer 00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:12.359 as a corn grower, an almond grower, an apple 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.500 grower, and we all rely on each other and we 00:32:15.500 --> 00:32:18.059 have to work together. And you're helping us 00:32:18.059 --> 00:32:20.779 communicate and work together with what you're 00:32:20.779 --> 00:32:24.200 doing. And the rest of us, let's talk to our 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:28.210 neighbors. yeah and a good friendly doesn't even 00:32:28.210 --> 00:32:31.410 have to be a debate let's get to be friends and 00:32:31.410 --> 00:32:35.009 let's talk friend over here that has a field 00:32:35.009 --> 00:32:39.509 of roundup ready alfalfa that's okay let's let's 00:32:39.509 --> 00:32:43.150 chat and let's figure out because maybe you spray 00:32:43.150 --> 00:32:45.950 the first monday of every month and so i know 00:32:45.950 --> 00:32:48.789 to just shut my bees up those days or something 00:32:48.789 --> 00:32:52.509 anything like that can help yeah go to honeybeehealthcoalition 00:32:52.509 --> 00:32:55.720 .org it's It's a wealth of knowledge and it's 00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:59.579 well vetted, great information that involves 00:32:59.579 --> 00:33:01.720 beekeepers from all levels in developing it. 00:33:01.779 --> 00:33:03.880 So we're pretty proud of what we've accomplished, 00:33:03.900 --> 00:33:09.299 but we know there's more to do. Thanks again 00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:12.039 to Matt and all the dedicated people contributing 00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:14.880 to the Honey Bee Health Coalition. And thanks 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.960 to our presenting sponsor, as always, Man Lake. 00:33:18.220 --> 00:33:20.779 And don't forget to order your bees. And a shout 00:33:20.779 --> 00:33:23.960 out to Vita B Health for their support. Vita's 00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:27.119 Varroa Control Ranger products includes Epistan, 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:31.839 Epigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:35.099 Acid Strips. Thanks guys. If you haven't yet, 00:33:35.420 --> 00:33:37.920 please subscribe and follow the show. tell your 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:41.140 friends about it and click on over to BeLoveBekeeping 00:33:41.140 --> 00:33:44.940 .com to sign up for our free newsletter. If you 00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:47.740 have a guest suggestion or topic that you would 00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:50.500 like discussed on the show, shoot me an email 00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:54.599 eric at BeLoveBekeeping .com and remember if 00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:57.000 you're not just in it for the honey or the money 00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.700 you're in it for the love. See you next week.