in a world brimming with complexity few creatures
embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless
precision she dances from bloom to bloom each
motion guided by millennia upon millennia of
instinct each act in service to the whole and
then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards
of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,
part poet, they move along their hives with the
efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to
the bee's needs as best they can comprehend,
and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the
Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing
like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their
journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping
presented by our great friends over at Man Lake.
Today's guest has an apiary and beekeeping business
on the big island of Hawaii. Yes, I'm still there
and it is raining in paradise today, but that's
okay. Our guest and his partner focus solely
on regenerative and treatment free beekeeping.
Now, I know, I know you're saying, Eric, you've
just opened up a giant can of worms by discussing
one of the most polarizing topics in beekeeping.
Okay. Let's all just take a breath. If you're
new to the show, let me explain something. We
are not here to tell you how you must do your
beekeeping. We're here to share information.
Then it's up to you to decide what's best for
your bees and the style of beekeeping that feels
most right to you. It's been said that beekeeping
is a blend of science and soul. So do your homework,
get in touch with your bees and do what your
soul tells you. Before we jump into that, I know
we've all heard about, read about, and seen with
our own two eyes, most of us, the wackle dance
that bees do. Well, we can always learn more.
There is a new research study out where the waggle
dance of the honey bees was researched. It's
always been thought that the waggle dance is
something that just points the direction for
the bees in which they should go to find sources
of nectar and pollen. But a recent study published
in Current Biology investigated the remarkable
communication strategy to a whole new level.
Some of what they learned is that bees use their
own memory of the topography, the terrain around
them, as they interpret this waggle dance, and
the two work together. Let me just quote from
some of it. Did the dance teach the bees? If
you can imagine a bee moving with fear, though
emotion didn't play into its study, to anticipate
a bump in the road at a specific point on the
journey. Are the bees in fact pantomiming the
way itself? I'm getting wet. Researchers trained
a small group of foragers to visit a feeder location
north of a hive along a gravel road. However,
they released the bees from three different sites
and what they discovered is that the dance was
even more complex and detailed than they had
originally understood. In a diagram of the dance,
we learned that it includes spatial expectations,
not just directions, a truly intelligent and
efficient form of communication. Researchers
placed a feeder with a sugar solution north of
the hive along a gravel road and trained foraging
bees to visit it. One site, as reported, had
a distinct path whereas another lacked these
types of markers. Then they let the bees perform
their magic trick of dancing to show their friends
and indicate where the food was located. They
had never visited the hive themselves. Researchers
awaited to determine whether any information
about the landscape what to anticipate on the
flight itself if any of that was communicated
in the waggle. In a quote they said, we employed
harmonic radar tracking, a powerful tool for
recording the detailed light trajectory of individual
bees. Researchers found that the receivers of
the dance weren't just following the direction
and distance indicated by the waggle dance, They
integrated the dance's vector information with
the memory of landscape features that they might
encounter along the way. In the absence of an
expected landmark, their search behavior became
more exploratory. They flew farther and in less
straight paths. They're calling this a multifaceted
form of communication. In conclusion, the author
states, our experiments address the question
of whether the vector information conveyed by
the dance is integrated into a recruits spatial
representation constructed from its own experience
and whether this integration occurs within a
common frame of spatial reference shared by both
the reported symbolically communicated vector
and self -experienced locations. What they found
is that the cognitive structure at play here
is most adequately conceptualized as a cognitive
map. So bees are even more impressive than we
had already given them credit for. These intelligent
bees aren't just following the vector, they retain
a spatial layout of the environment and incorporate
it into their navigation. Last quote from the
scientists, our study reveals a higher level
of cognitive complexity in bee communication.
With the waddle dance, bees don't simply follow
a blind vector instruction. They integrate it
with a cognitive map of their surroundings built
during earlier exploration flights. This allows
them to form expectations and navigate more efficiently.
What do we take away from this besides the fact
that these little girls are, you know, even smarter
than we ever give them credit for? When we talk
about orientation flights, Usually we're just
thinking of them circling around right in front
of the hive and going up. But it appears something
that's been learned is that they're orienting
a lot more of their surroundings around them.
For example, they know where high hedges are.
They know where roads are. They know where trails
are. They know where trees and bushes and other
things are going to be in their way. And is there
reading or receiving a waggle dance? They're
putting all that information in together with
what they're learning from the waggle and mapping
this whole thing out. It appears consciously,
cognitively before they actually take their flight.
They know where they're going. It is amazing.
All right, let's get on with our guests. This
is going to be a lot of fun today. I'd like to
welcome to the show today with a great big aloha,
Kevin O 'Connor. Good morning, Kevin. Morning.
Aloha, Eric. How are you? I'm fantastic. Are
you kidding? What's not to love about being in
this beautiful place? Speaking of beautiful places,
you are in Waiohinu, Hawaii, correct? Yes, down
close to South Point on the Big Island, which
is the southernmost point of the United States
of America, by the way. Yes. OK. and there's
a lot of businesses that will remind you of that
including our favorite punalu bakery and by the
way they're not giving me anything free for saying
that but uh you can't drive through without getting
some sweet bread and a malasada anyway hey i
met you at the farmers market the other day and
today we're going to talk about farmers markets
we're going to talk about treatment free beekeeping
regenerative beekeeping all kinds of things and
If you don't mind, give me a little bit of background
first. Yeah. Like when did you start beekeeping?
Why? What do you love about it? Yeah, so I started
beekeeping in 2006, this spring. I came out to
Hawaii that winter and then got a job while I
was out here catching queen bees. I love about
beekeeping, the dynamic aspect of it, how it's
like really kind of connects you with nature.
I've always been a gardener ever since I was
a kid and then made a business out of it and
always also been, you know, attracted to just
the natural cycles of nature, the seasonal changes,
the different flowers and how they interact with
each other and how beautiful they can be when
you arrange them, you know, in a garden and landscape
certain ways. and always kind of appreciated
that different environments and ecosystems require
different plants and they have different aspects
that how they contribute to the ecosystem, what
have you. And honeybees beekeeping is like a
natural extension to gardening, because honeybees
are so integral to the garden, as well, of course,
as other pollinators. But honeybees are something
that you can actually manage and work with and
interact with on a more intimate and in -depth
level. It was interesting catching queens. I
had not really known anything about beekeeping
and it was a really quick like deep dive into
beekeeping because you get to know all about
all the different aspects of beekeeping and queen
rearing which kind of is just like a quick deep
dive into beekeeping and one of the things that
was like concerning to me at that time we started
having a lot of like we were calling them blowouts
where the little nukes weren't surviving two
weeks to even allow that virgin queen to go mate
come back and be caught to sent along around
the world. We were concerned that as one of the
first jobs we had in the morning of the beekeeping
the day we would have a 55 gallon drum and dump
like seven bags of sugar into that, mix it with
water and then the fumigillin and stuff like
that and I was scratching my head like what is
this all about and you know feeding the bees
and kind of understood that because it's so intensive
with allowing that little nuke to raise the queen
we needed to do that and that got me interested
in natural beekeeping and other beekeeping methods
that wasn't so Intensive and stressful on the
bees cuz we're seeing that they weren't surviving
there was this kind of drop off in the nukes
lasting and the queens being able to be caught
in thousand two thousand six which is like right
at the beginning of colony collapse. So yeah
that was kind of our start of beekeeping. So
for people that. don't know. Some of the largest
queen producers in the world and some of the
best are here on the big island of Hawaii. So
were you working for one of them? Yeah, back
in 2006. Okay, and then you've just sort of taken
your own journey from there. Your company is
called B -Boys. So it's you and how many other
boys? Just me and Ryan, just two of us right
now. Alright. Yeah. And then we do have, we work
with a couple other beekeepers, Artemis Smiles
down on South Point. She does very similar beekeeping
practices and because our, you know, we've grown
a bit so and we can't handle all of the... demand
so which is good we're able to work with other
beekeepers and and grow in that way because we
only because of the style of beekeeping it's
very labor intensive you know beekeeper can't
really manage many colonies as many colonies
as large commercial beekeepers do because of
the labor the difference the different approach
that we take Well, let's talk about that style
of beekeeping as long as you brought it up. And
if you don't mind, I'm going to read something
straight from your website. Okay. So hopefully
this still applies. And oh man, this is where
the controversy begins. And I love controversy.
No, we like telling both sides of the story on
this show. So here we go. Your apiary says our
apiary is 100 % treatment free. We encourage
hygienic behavior in our bees. We allow our bees
to raise their own queens. Bees are encouraged
to constantly build their own comb. We do not
use plastic foundation. We do not use beeswax
foundation. Bees are allowed to swarm and not
collected. Absolutely no plastic in the hives.
This includes plastic frames, feeders, and any
component of the hive. We do not paint hives.
We do not spin honey or reuse honeycomb. We refrain
from pesticide and herbicide use completely.
We do not feed our bees ever. We do not move
bees for pollination services or nectar sources.
We follow biodynamic principles and apply instinctual
beekeeping methods. I'm almost done. We do not
purchase commercial bee stock or collect swarms.
We maintain an eight -year line of genetics.
All our current colonies came from the same colony
eight years ago. Our entire apiary is a true
family. Okay, where do we jump in? How do you
want to explain that? So, yeah, we keep bees
basically how they were kept hundreds of years
ago before we got too smart for ourselves. You
know, we found that through all of our intense
research about colony collapse disorder and engaging
interacting with the honey bees, you know, it's
a big one. lesson we learned was in 2010. So
we became keeping bees in Hawaii and then suburbs
of Philadelphia, southeastern Pennsylvania. We
don't keep bees in southeastern Pennsylvania
anymore. We stopped in like about eight years
ago. And the biggest lesson we learned in southeastern
Pennsylvania was our bees were always kind of
struggling until the economy kind of started
collapsing in 2008, seven, eight. One of the
first things that our neighbors did, because
we're in suburbs, you know, it's not agriculture,
but it's similar within there's a lot of chemicals
used in the garden and on the lawn. And one of
the first things that people stopped doing because
it was easy to cut and save hundreds of dollars
a month, not using the herbicide, the chemlon,
I think they call it true green now, and all
of the different strong chemicals to make that
golf course green lawn. And what started happening
is in our neighborhood, all the dandelions started
popping up, all the ground ivy, which is a beautiful
little purple flower, clover, violets, all the
little wildflowers that live in the lawn that
makes for a healthier lawn, it kept it greener,
longer. during the droughts of the summer, and
our bees were thriving in the suburbs of Philadelphia.
We had swarms. We were collecting gallons and
gallons of honey per colony and not using treatments.
Yes, we were planting thyme in front of the hive,
the bees all around in the gardens and stuff,
because the bees collect the thyme. rosins, propolis,
to create their own medicines for the varroa
mite. And there's many different facets of it
with being treatment free and having them build
their own honeycomb. They start making their
cell size smaller and all these different things.
And also, yes, you're going to lose bees during
the process because the genetics that aren't
strong to survive all these different changes
and stressors will fall away. And the genetics
that are strong and are able to adapt will come
forward. Are you a beekeeper who loves sharing
tips, asking questions and showing off your latest
honey haul? Then join the hive introducing the
Man Lake beekeeping community on Facebook, your
new go -to for everything honey bees. Whether
you're struggling with mites, trying a new winterization
method, or just need to know what that weird
thing on your frame is, our group is a supportive,
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Stop scrolling through endless forums and connect
directly with beekeepers and the professionals
at Man Lake in one buzzing place. We'll put a
link to it down in the show notes. Just click
over and join up. And that's using nature's way
instead of you know, getting in the microscope
and grafting or doing all that stuff to create,
you know, oh, we want this desirable trade or
that desirable trade. We allowed the bees to
do it because they know how to be better than
we do. So that's the approach that we took and
that we found success. And then in 2010, in suburbs
of Philadelphia, the economy started coming back
and people started using the true green again
and spraying their trees because all these ornamental
gardens are, you know, they require all these
chemical intervention, which isn't necessary.
But anyway, people started doing it, you know,
good marketing, stronger, healthier, happier
gardens and lawns that are all golf course again.
And the bees could not collect enough nectar
to make the comb to make the honey. or to store
the honey for the winter. So we found ourselves
scrambling, feeding our bees, which we hadn't
done for quite a few years. And we were using
like a tea mixture, sugar water, with this biodynamic
preparation of like mint and thyme and a little
sea salt and chamomile and to make it a little
easier for the bees to digest the sugar. And
we were looking at each other having this conversation
about like, well, if our bees cannot survive
in this situation, what makes because we've always
heard the honeybees are the canary in the coal
mine. What makes us think that this is a healthy
environment for us? So that's when we kind of
made the decision to move full time to Big Island,
Hawaii. It sounds so perfect and idyllic. And
it doesn't work for everybody, Kevin. No, of
course not. It works as long as you're willing
to take the risks and suffer the losses for the
long -term gain. And that's what it is. We're
looking at it long -term. We're not looking at
it this year, these few months. We're looking
at it intergenerationally so that the genetics
of the bees is stronger. And yes, if you have
thousands of colonies that you're trying to maintain
with only a couple dozen employees, you cannot
do it how we do it. You're also not going to
get the quality of honey and wax and the strength
and integrity and genetics in the bees. Because
there's going to be, it's like a patchwork. We
think we know, but we cannot comprehend the complexity
of genetics and honeybee genetics and the flexibility
and fluidity and plasticity that it has as well
and its ability to adapt. So what we're working
on is creating like a land race bee where we're
located. Because we don't move them around, we
don't do the pollination services. Yes, right
now, the bee industry, it's geared towards pollination
services. It's honey. How much, how many dollars
a pound is the honey? It is so cheap right now.
None of the commercial guys are making a living
on honey. It doesn't work. Yeah. And then also,
so then, so you have the other aspect, the agricultural
aspect, the pollination services. If we were
to work with the orchard tenders and be like,
say hey you know an idea would be why don't we
park these bees here we'll have some in -house
beekeepers ours yours we'll train whatever and
then you also have forage for the bees that you
plant inter -row depending upon how it is or
maybe take out a few acres of almonds to plant
some mixed diverse plantings but it's it's like
a it's a slippery slope because the agricultural
industry is so intertwined with big big chemical,
big ag, genetic engineering, genetic manipulation,
all that stuff, and they don't want to turn that
spigot off. And I get that. You know, once you
do something, you create something, it's like
we put all this time and energy in creating this
product. We want to be able to sell it. We want
to ensure that that market's there. And, however,
that way of doing business is really destroying
our ecosystem and destroying our bees. Like,
70 % loss last year, across the continent, that's
not sustainable. It was crazy how high it was.
The initial numbers were 62%. Nobody knows exactly
what it was, but it was well over a million colonies,
and it may have been 70%. And in some areas,
it was even higher than that. And some people
were saying, some people told me in the industry,
the reason it was that way is because beekeepers
didn't use enough chemicals enough treatment
for varroa and you're saying it's the opposite
and i'm not the judge here okay i love what you
guys are doing i want to play devil's advocate
for a second because i'm sure you hear it there
are some areas depending on the climate and stuff
like where i am hard winters if varroa levels
are hardly anything they don't make it through
winter period So that's that's thing number one
is can everybody do it where they live what you're
doing. And thing number two that i always hear.
And i don't know what stock to put in this is
oh well if you're doing that you're sending for
all bombs over to my hives and so i'm getting
for all bomb by you so thanks a lot you jerk.
Yeah yeah. And there's everything in between
i wish we could all do it how you do it. But
we don't all, we either don't all know how or
we just can't where we live. What is it? So it's
both of those. Well, yes, you can everywhere.
However, it's going to take time. It's not, we
can't do it overnight because it's taken us years
and lots of losses at the beginning. And now
our losses, we keep around 50 colonies and maybe
we'll lose two a year. Our losses are really
low. And that's genetics, right? That's how that's
what I attribute it to. That's genetic and that's
what other treatment -free beekeepers tell me.
The ones that can do it are like, hey, we have
bred for this. The ones that can't deal with
it, they die. That's okay to us. It's hard. It's
still hard to lose a beehive. Sure it is because
we feel responsible because we're the beekeepers
even though out there, you know, in the forest,
that's exactly what's going to happen. The survival
of the fittest kind of thing. And I couldn't
imagine how hard it would be being a larger beekeeper,
having thousands, managing thousands of colonies
and losing half of them. It's like so difficult.
Sleepless nights, I imagine. So one of the things
I think that not only the genetics, not only
are we allowing them to build their own honeycomb,
which shrinks, they start making a smaller cell
size. shrinks the honeybee just a little bit,
just a little bit smaller of a gestation period,
smaller, a little feistier bee. That part is
great, that part is what we have control over,
and but we're on a tiny little quarter acre,
but we're surrounded by thousands of acres of
open space. That's not, it used to be old pasture
land that's kind of been gone back to forest,
and it's like Christmas berry, which is an introduced
species, and as well as something they call hollycoa,
which is another introduced species. But because
we have all of this open space that's not treated
by that many chemicals and we have an abundant
amount of forage through many seasons throughout
the year, our bees have the food stock that they
need to thrive and they have the diversity. to
enable themselves to get the different types
of rosins, the propolis, and the different pollens
to give them a good, healthy, diverse diet. It's
like you think about the diet of a person. You
want to have, you know, a healthy diet, well
-balanced, all that stuff. We want the same thing
for a bee. So when you have bees eating in monocultures,
they're not getting a diverse diet. And then
when you're feeding them on top of that, it's
like eating you know popcorn is your main diet
and then drinking soda and french fries and that's
your that's what you got and that's big ag unfortunately
and also in a lot of these different areas we
have changed the ecosystem across the country
by cutting down forests or raising prairies you
know plowing all that stuff and not allowing
for the natural cycles to balance and regulate
and offer a diverse amount of forage for all
throughout the year. And a lot of other regenerative
beekeepers are starting to, I mean, not just
beekeepers, sorry, land tenders, farmers, they're
starting to not till the land. They're starting
to allow the ecosystem to develop. and they're
preventing soil erosion. And what that does for
beekeepers is it creates all those wildflower
habitat. So the bees are going to have the opportunity
to have more diverse food. So you have those
two things go hand in hand, allowing the bees
to kind of do what they do best is them, be them.
and then ensure that we have a diverse, healthy
ecosystem for the bees to forage. Once you have
both of those, and that's what we have here in
Hawaii, then you can do the natural beekeeping,
allow them to build their own honeycomb. And
I did want to talk some transitional tips and
ideas. When you just go like you want to okay,
I'm gonna be tremendously foundational foundationless
rather the bees because over multi -generations
They've always been given this foundation. They
kind of Forget how to build like parallel and
all that stuff when you have a swarm though There's
something unique and we don't collect swarms
as a different story, but we used to when you
have a swarm they for some reason are able they
it's like when they swarm something resets when
they come back you catch them or or you know
you put them in a box and we do use Langstroth
boxes with uh but we call it top bar methods
sometimes we have the full frame sometimes just
the top bar sometimes the top and just the sides
deep boxes medium boxes both deeps and mediums
uh deeps for the brood we try to do two deep
brood uh chambers and then we'll build depending
upon the year and the age and vigor of the colony
will put, will build small boxes on them. And
that too, like we allow the bees to take their
own pace. Some bees will, and we do walk away
splits, but I want to get back to the comb building.
If you're starting with a managed colony that's,
that you already have the foundation in there,
you can start in the super by doing like every
other frame, one foundation. one empty that way
they have that like straight like avenue to build
in and if they start building in an arch which
they they like to you can like turn them around
so that they'll straighten it back out and you
get a little snake in there and also they love
facing southeast or south southeast and they
need to be level because if you have it's it's
crooked the bees build they festoon they hold
from the top and they build And they use gravity,
like law of chains or something, where they will
build that comb. And if it's at an angle, that
comb will come down at an angle, so that's important
to be level. Also, just keep an eye if you do
want parallel frames to flip them back and forth.
And then you can get into the brew chamber. You
can take the honey frames from the top that they
built and put them on the sides. And you can
take out maybe one or two frames in there and
do the same thing, allow them to build. they're
generally on a when they're on the nectar flow
they'll build that out real quick with within
a day or two and the bee and the queen will will
be laying in there shortly and you can always
do that when you're calling for pollen or or
make sure that the the brew chamber is not honey
bound and things like that okay so patients be
willing to let some bees die guess what a lot
of people's bees die even if they're not willing
to let them die so is it really that different
The fact that you're willing to let them swarm
I think is a big deal too because you've got
brute breaks. It's not like you guys are just
lazy and doing nothing. You're actually doing
a lot. It just doesn't happen to be chemical
treatment. A lot of monitoring, a lot of just
seeing where the bees are. you know, if they're
starting to separate doing the queen cell building,
we'll let them do that. And we let them, we stopped
collecting swarms for two reasons. In Hawaii,
when the small hive beetle and varroa mite got
here, the county decided that they wanted to
kill all of the feral colonies and the trees
and the caves because they thought there would
be vectors spreading varroa mite and small hive
beetles. So they destroyed a lot of the feral.
stock that the queen beaters were kind of depending
upon that they didn't realize for their genetics
because the the virgin queen will go out and
then she'll mate with all the drones not just
the managed drones but the feral drones as well
and that brings some good and genetic integrity
but when you have you know that that bottleneck
it doesn't allow that so we're allowing the um
the swarms to fly to repopulate the area again
to create those feral colonies that are essential.
And then another reason we don't collect swarms
is because when we started collecting swarms,
or we're collecting swarms, and then we noticed
there was this tendency where they weren't swarms.
They looked like swarms, but they were abscantions.
And that's a colony because a small high beetle
got in there, slimed them out, they flew away,
and they were looking for a new home. but they're
not swarms, so when you grab them, when you collect
them and put them in a box, when you collect
them and put them in a box, they weren't having
that, there was just this chaos, they didn't
have, they weren't building, they were in this
like panic mode, and then they would fly away
again. And so that's when we stopped collecting
swarms, because we don't know, we would go through
all this trouble, you know, put up the ladder,
climb, and you know, collect and take a few hours
and all this time, and then they continue to
fly away. So we just decided to let them, let
them be. And to do, we multiply our colonies
through what we call walkaway splits. So we'll
take three frames of the three stages of brood,
egg, egg larva and cat brood, and then a couple
frames of honey. And then we'll, sometimes the
queen comes with them. Sometimes she doesn't.
We're not always that good at making sure we
know where the queen is when we do this, which
in which case. if we do bring the queen with
us, then it gives a brood break for the larger
colony, and then it creates a very vigorous new,
what do you call it? New nuke, new colony. Yeah,
new colony. I mean, a walk away split, it could
be either side. Yeah. Right? It could be either
the side you left or the side that you took and
moved. In fact, in a regular swarm, the queen
is going to leave. Yeah. So, I think it's funny
that people think a walk -away split should never
have a queen in it or any kind of split for that
matter should never have the original queen.
I'm like okay once again we're not working how
the beans work for some reason because we know
better. Anyway let's shift gears for a minute
before we run out of time here. Tell me about
farmers markets and a little bit about your business
because I think there are a lot of beekeepers
that are Sideliners or hobbyists that maybe want
to move up to sideline or want to learn how to
make a few bucks doing what they love and They
know about farmers markets, but what advice do
you have for them? How did what work good? Yeah
before I answer that question. I do wanted to
touch base real quick on the the mite bomb, small
hive beetle bomb that you mentioned about treatment
-free beekeepers, because that was really a big
thing. We were getting a lot of that feedback
when we started telling other beekeepers, oh,
we're going to be doing this treatment -free.
And they were telling us that exact thing. Oh,
you're going to be reeling our bees and all that.
And cut to eight years later in Hawaii Island,
all the queen breeders, they've kind of tried
to move down here. And even though it's not working
out for them, it's really windy, hard to breed
queens down here. they're asking us for our genetics.
They're like, can we have a few drones? So the
opposite has happened over time. Well, and you're
also in an area where there's not a lot of other
beekeepers right around you that you're going
to be mite bombing if that indeed is a thing.
So the opposite has happened. Actually, we find
that when the migratory beekeepers move in, the
mite count and the small high beetle count skyrockets.
And that's kind of like the washing time, like
when that happens, the strong genetics really
shows and the weak genetics falls away. So, but
luckily our bees aren't having much fall away
anymore. And then, so yeah, to speak to farmers
markets, it's such a great way to connect with
your community. It's a great way to let people
know. that you're there, that you want a healthy
ecosystem, and that it's all of our responsibility
to ensure that we have a healthy ecosystem. And
the nicer that you keep your property, the cleaner
and purer your beeswax and honey is going to
be for our skincare products and what have you.
So that's one way, a great way to interact with
the community. And different products we do,
you know, the beeswax, we make a lot of skincare
products with it. We find that skincare, we get
better bang for the buck for making our own salves
and balms. And we use all organic ingredients,
our beeswax. And because every time we're harvesting
our honey, we're cutting out the honeycomb. And
we're literally crushing it, straining it, letting
the gravity pull it out. And then... Pressing
it a little bit and then we wash that wax with
that water We make June for ourselves to drink
and and share with our friends We don't sell
that just yet And we also make vinegar honey
vinegars from that and then we with the beeswax
We make the skincare products and we do you know
cold infusions and or heat infusions of different
herbs and botanicals We grow a lot and we basically
replaced our medicine cabinet with all of the
different salves and balms that we make from
bath body beauty care, you know, age -defying
salves, long -lasting deodorants, pain relievers,
and that's all from different flowers, botanicals,
and some minerals like zinc and stuff like that.
Basically, you start small. We started with two
salves and we were doing candles. You know, we
were pouring our own foundation and rolling them.
That's very time -consuming, but you know you
put your Value yourself value your time and the
community values you your time and your products
too, and they actually work. It's the same We're
you know working with arnica and cayenne and
calendula Come free these are herbs chamomile
that we've been people have been using and are
relatively familiar with and they work Instead
of using things that are synthesized from the
drugstore we can use the herbs and botanicals
that, you know, have stood the test of time.
This is what our great -grandparents were using.
And people, there's like an attractiveness to
that again. Because there's this big, you know,
AI and data center and all this smart technology.
It's creating this big disconnect that we have.
You know, right now we're actually having this
conversation on a smarty -phone, you know, visi
-phone instead of in person. And that's where
I think Farmer's Markets kind of puts that personal
touch back onto it. And it gives so much more
value when you actually know the person that's
making your products and keeping your bees and
where they're keeping them and what they're doing.
And it's just exciting. You know what I mean?
People like you who are also really interested
in honey bees. That's awesome. And I just want
to add one thing about the Farmer's Markets.
And that is if someone listening is not a beekeeper
yet, please Don't don't go get your honey at
the grocery store. Go to the local farmers market
where you can talk to the beekeeper. You can
ask questions. What kinds of what kinds of chemicals
are you using? What are the bees feeding on?
You can ask them any kinds of questions that
you want. Feel very comfortable about what you're
doing and you're going to learn something. Beekeepers
are so good at sharing information. You know,
I could probably say, hey, Kevin, why do you
put propolis in this one salve? And I'll bet
you could go on for 20 minutes telling me why
and it would be good stuff. Yeah. So that's an
encouragement as well. And hey, you know, I mean,
I don't want this to sound. to sound too capitalistic,
but you're also making top dollar at those farmers
markets because there's no middleman. It's just
you straight there at hopefully a good full retail
fair price. And that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And
people appreciate that. They'd rather pay good
money to somebody in their community than pay
it to a big company that's, you know, brought
it in from China. You know, no offense to China,
but I mean, like they're getting beat up, right?
Well, but that's a generic. A lot of the honey
that you're buying in the supermarket comes from
out of the country. And frankly, the technology
is not there yet to know what all is in it. They're
finding a lot of stuff is cut with high fructose
corn syrup with, you know, additives like that
that are super, super cheap. And so it's really
cheap. And that's the other reason why for beekeepers,
it's so hard to make money selling honey. Well,
that's why we charge top dollar, you know, completely
honest, $45 for a pint of honey is what we charge
and $50 if we put the comb in there. And that's
a reflection of the time and energy that it's
taken over a couple decades to figure this out.
and also that creates that higher quality product
and you can taste the difference and also speaking
to like if you are conventional or if you're
in transition or even organic standards which
can use plastic foundation and use some treatments
even if you are those beekeepers it's still awesome
to offer that honey i'm not saying it's it's
it's not worth offering to the community. It's
excellent. It's better honey than what you're
just saying. It's better honey than what you
can get at the grocery store. And you can talk
to the people about their seasonal allergies,
what time of season do they have it, and then
you have the honey. You have the cure for them,
the medicine for them. And also, honey's been
shown to kill staph, you know, the MRSA. Like,
it's better than some antibiotics. And propolis
kills COVID. You know, it's like, it's been proven.
There's scientists, there's studies out there
that show these things. And this is, instead
of using these crazy chemicals on us too, we
can use the medicine that the bees are using,
and the bees are collecting. It's excellent,
it's amazing. We've done a couple episodes on
everything apotherapy. From bee stings, to propolis,
to a lot of this other stuff, and I'm all for
experimenting on myself with all this, and I
do. and I'll tell you what I had a bad burn on
my arm a couple of months ago just from hitting
the side of the oven you know because I'm really
good at that kind of stuff and and oddly it just
wasn't healing it just was was deep and kind
of bad and after a few days I'm like I'm just
gonna put some of our good raw honey right on
this and I was thinking maybe i should do propolis
i don't happen to have any around here i'm going
to just throw honey right on it put a big band
-aid over it so it's not getting everything sticky
yeah two days later unbelievable recovery this
whole thing had closed off and was almost completely
healed and this is not us legally not giving
any medical advice of course these are our experiences
we're not telling you no these are our personal
experiences but it's amazing and and i do do
some bee stings for some things too and love
it and um i would encourage people to to if you
feel like experimenting with some of that beekeepers
out there go for it everything in the hive is
good for you except maybe small hive beetles
but that's not from the bees I haven't heard
of any tincture for that yet. Hey, we're running
out of time. Kevin, I have to give you a chance
to tell us one of your favorite wild and crazy
beekeeping stories. Have you thought of anything?
Well, fascinating, the kind of a highlight of
my beekeeping career was, so we go to Molokai
as well. It's a beautiful small island, a couple
islands north of us. And Novoroamite's there.
No, exactly. There's no beekeeping industry.
It's very small, like home backyard type stuff,
as well as a massive amount of feral colonies.
There was, and a lot of, you know, because of
that, you're going to get a lot of extractions
from structures and what have you. And so we
were called, we were asked, and this is, you
know, we normally don't do this, but they asked
us to help them remove a colony from a church,
a small wooden church that was built by St. Damien.
Exactly. Well, the church was not there. The
church was up on the top side, they call it.
But he had built the church there. But yeah,
he'd ministered to the lepers in, or sorry, the
afflicted in Kalapapa. And he had come up and
he built this wooden church in like the 1800s.
It was a double wall construction. So the bees
had built a colony in there and we worked with
some carpenters who removed the wood and and
we extracted the colony from there and re you
know put it into boxes and and relocated it and
then sealed it up and that was amazing that was
like an ethereal experience with the bees and
in the church with the history of this ancient
structure yeah that was that was just fascinating
and then otherwise kind of more of a funny story
I I still am afraid of getting stung Right, honeybees?
It's like, I think, I don't know if it's just
me, but it's still, it hurts a lot. You know,
it's like a burn. It's like a hot needle and
it radiates for me. So it's like, I don't know
if I'm just working it up. So anytime I do get
stung, I, you know, kind of, I don't cry like
a little baby, but I quickly move away. But you
scream like a little girl. Yes. So it's yeah,
I do not like getting stung between the pain
and then also the loss of you know, the B hits
Yeah, it's all only cuz the loss of the B. Hey,
you're human and And this is built into our DNA
and that's why the first time that you do a sting
on purpose to treat something I've never done
that. It must be a different experience. I'm
gonna come to your place and show you how It's
a different experience. It is so hard to do the
first time because everything in your DNA is
saying no, no, no, no, no, no. And you have to
overcome that. It's crazy hard. It gets easier,
but it's really hard the first time. to do a
self inflicted. Hey, Kevin, we could talk for
hours. I'm going to put your website down in
the show notes in case people want to find you
or reach out to you or order anything from you,
which I would highly encourage the area that
your bees are in. I've been down to that area.
It's absolutely beautiful. It is so green. It's
kind of what you picture of Hawaii. It's just
green. It's not like this green desert behind
me, which Has no bees by the way because who
knows what all chemicals they use out there But
I'm gonna give you the last word just one last
piece of advice or why you just love beekeeping
I love beekeeping because you never know what
you're gonna get each seasons different each
harvest is different and also have faith in the
miraculous You know the honeybees they have been
here for tens of millions of years They're gonna
work it through this this little blip on there
genetic radar, the quicker that we come together
as a community to overcome this, you know, kind
of self -inflicted wound because we're creating
the problem that we can solve. And we can solve
it through beekeeping and coming together and
appreciating the natural flow and ebb and flow
of nature and the beautiful world that we're
so lucky to be part of. Beautiful. Mahalo, my
friend. Thank you. Aloha. Thanks for joining
us on Be Love Beekeeping presented by Man Lake.
If you like this content I hope you'll share
it with a friend, follow and subscribe to this
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BeLoveBeekeeping .com Also, just a shout out
to Vita B Health for their support, we appreciate
them. Vita's Varroa control range of products
includes Apistan, Apigard, and now Veroxen, extended
release oxalic acid strips. Thanks guys, and
remember, if you're not just in it for the honey
or the money, you're in it for the love. See
you next week.