WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.660 in a world brimming with complexity few creatures 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:12.839 embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:17.699 precision she dances from bloom to bloom each 00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:22.399 motion guided by millennia upon millennia of 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:28.800 instinct each act in service to the whole and 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:34.560 then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:40.479 of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist, 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.460 part poet, they move along their hives with the 00:00:45.460 --> 00:00:50.560 efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:54.219 the bee's needs as best they can comprehend, 00:00:54.859 --> 00:00:59.659 and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the 00:00:59.659 --> 00:01:05.599 Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:12.120 like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:23.180 journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:25.840 presented by our great friends over at Man Lake. 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:29.879 Today's guest has an apiary and beekeeping business 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:33.620 on the big island of Hawaii. Yes, I'm still there 00:01:33.620 --> 00:01:36.500 and it is raining in paradise today, but that's 00:01:36.500 --> 00:01:40.420 okay. Our guest and his partner focus solely 00:01:40.420 --> 00:01:43.420 on regenerative and treatment free beekeeping. 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:46.939 Now, I know, I know you're saying, Eric, you've 00:01:46.939 --> 00:01:49.840 just opened up a giant can of worms by discussing 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:52.879 one of the most polarizing topics in beekeeping. 00:01:53.260 --> 00:01:57.239 Okay. Let's all just take a breath. If you're 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.000 new to the show, let me explain something. We 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.900 are not here to tell you how you must do your 00:02:02.900 --> 00:02:05.599 beekeeping. We're here to share information. 00:02:05.900 --> 00:02:08.680 Then it's up to you to decide what's best for 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:11.180 your bees and the style of beekeeping that feels 00:02:11.180 --> 00:02:14.580 most right to you. It's been said that beekeeping 00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:18.460 is a blend of science and soul. So do your homework, 00:02:18.900 --> 00:02:21.780 get in touch with your bees and do what your 00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:25.099 soul tells you. Before we jump into that, I know 00:02:25.099 --> 00:02:28.680 we've all heard about, read about, and seen with 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:31.539 our own two eyes, most of us, the wackle dance 00:02:31.539 --> 00:02:35.259 that bees do. Well, we can always learn more. 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:39.500 There is a new research study out where the waggle 00:02:39.500 --> 00:02:42.960 dance of the honey bees was researched. It's 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:45.280 always been thought that the waggle dance is 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:48.000 something that just points the direction for 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:51.159 the bees in which they should go to find sources 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:54.650 of nectar and pollen. But a recent study published 00:02:54.650 --> 00:02:57.930 in Current Biology investigated the remarkable 00:02:57.930 --> 00:03:01.069 communication strategy to a whole new level. 00:03:01.689 --> 00:03:05.389 Some of what they learned is that bees use their 00:03:05.389 --> 00:03:08.750 own memory of the topography, the terrain around 00:03:08.750 --> 00:03:12.389 them, as they interpret this waggle dance, and 00:03:12.389 --> 00:03:15.729 the two work together. Let me just quote from 00:03:15.729 --> 00:03:18.930 some of it. Did the dance teach the bees? If 00:03:18.930 --> 00:03:22.159 you can imagine a bee moving with fear, though 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:25.460 emotion didn't play into its study, to anticipate 00:03:25.460 --> 00:03:27.939 a bump in the road at a specific point on the 00:03:27.939 --> 00:03:31.259 journey. Are the bees in fact pantomiming the 00:03:31.259 --> 00:03:35.699 way itself? I'm getting wet. Researchers trained 00:03:35.699 --> 00:03:39.319 a small group of foragers to visit a feeder location 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:43.000 north of a hive along a gravel road. However, 00:03:43.340 --> 00:03:46.539 they released the bees from three different sites 00:03:46.539 --> 00:03:49.319 and what they discovered is that the dance was 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:52.879 even more complex and detailed than they had 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:56.340 originally understood. In a diagram of the dance, 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:00.419 we learned that it includes spatial expectations, 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:03.900 not just directions, a truly intelligent and 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:07.360 efficient form of communication. Researchers 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.780 placed a feeder with a sugar solution north of 00:04:10.780 --> 00:04:13.979 the hive along a gravel road and trained foraging 00:04:13.979 --> 00:04:18.459 bees to visit it. One site, as reported, had 00:04:18.459 --> 00:04:21.779 a distinct path whereas another lacked these 00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:24.540 types of markers. Then they let the bees perform 00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:28.160 their magic trick of dancing to show their friends 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:32.000 and indicate where the food was located. They 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.839 had never visited the hive themselves. Researchers 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.300 awaited to determine whether any information 00:04:38.300 --> 00:04:41.129 about the landscape what to anticipate on the 00:04:41.129 --> 00:04:43.850 flight itself if any of that was communicated 00:04:43.850 --> 00:04:47.550 in the waggle. In a quote they said, we employed 00:04:47.550 --> 00:04:50.870 harmonic radar tracking, a powerful tool for 00:04:50.870 --> 00:04:54.129 recording the detailed light trajectory of individual 00:04:54.129 --> 00:04:57.829 bees. Researchers found that the receivers of 00:04:57.829 --> 00:05:00.670 the dance weren't just following the direction 00:05:00.670 --> 00:05:03.629 and distance indicated by the waggle dance, They 00:05:03.629 --> 00:05:07.129 integrated the dance's vector information with 00:05:07.129 --> 00:05:09.889 the memory of landscape features that they might 00:05:09.889 --> 00:05:13.329 encounter along the way. In the absence of an 00:05:13.329 --> 00:05:16.449 expected landmark, their search behavior became 00:05:16.449 --> 00:05:19.889 more exploratory. They flew farther and in less 00:05:19.889 --> 00:05:23.610 straight paths. They're calling this a multifaceted 00:05:23.610 --> 00:05:27.750 form of communication. In conclusion, the author 00:05:27.750 --> 00:05:30.550 states, our experiments address the question 00:05:30.550 --> 00:05:33.519 of whether the vector information conveyed by 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:37.459 the dance is integrated into a recruits spatial 00:05:37.459 --> 00:05:41.079 representation constructed from its own experience 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.959 and whether this integration occurs within a 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:46.779 common frame of spatial reference shared by both 00:05:46.779 --> 00:05:49.680 the reported symbolically communicated vector 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:53.899 and self -experienced locations. What they found 00:05:53.899 --> 00:05:56.639 is that the cognitive structure at play here 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:01.040 is most adequately conceptualized as a cognitive 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:04.379 map. So bees are even more impressive than we 00:06:04.379 --> 00:06:07.199 had already given them credit for. These intelligent 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:10.639 bees aren't just following the vector, they retain 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:14.100 a spatial layout of the environment and incorporate 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:17.160 it into their navigation. Last quote from the 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:19.899 scientists, our study reveals a higher level 00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:22.620 of cognitive complexity in bee communication. 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:26.000 With the waddle dance, bees don't simply follow 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:29.079 a blind vector instruction. They integrate it 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:32.120 with a cognitive map of their surroundings built 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.540 during earlier exploration flights. This allows 00:06:35.540 --> 00:06:38.800 them to form expectations and navigate more efficiently. 00:06:39.699 --> 00:06:42.000 What do we take away from this besides the fact 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.139 that these little girls are, you know, even smarter 00:06:45.139 --> 00:06:48.259 than we ever give them credit for? When we talk 00:06:48.259 --> 00:06:51.170 about orientation flights, Usually we're just 00:06:51.170 --> 00:06:54.310 thinking of them circling around right in front 00:06:54.310 --> 00:06:57.509 of the hive and going up. But it appears something 00:06:57.509 --> 00:07:00.629 that's been learned is that they're orienting 00:07:00.629 --> 00:07:03.149 a lot more of their surroundings around them. 00:07:03.670 --> 00:07:07.810 For example, they know where high hedges are. 00:07:07.889 --> 00:07:10.410 They know where roads are. They know where trails 00:07:10.410 --> 00:07:12.810 are. They know where trees and bushes and other 00:07:12.810 --> 00:07:15.269 things are going to be in their way. And is there 00:07:15.269 --> 00:07:18.209 reading or receiving a waggle dance? They're 00:07:18.209 --> 00:07:21.389 putting all that information in together with 00:07:21.389 --> 00:07:24.209 what they're learning from the waggle and mapping 00:07:24.209 --> 00:07:27.930 this whole thing out. It appears consciously, 00:07:28.930 --> 00:07:32.029 cognitively before they actually take their flight. 00:07:32.389 --> 00:07:34.870 They know where they're going. It is amazing. 00:07:34.990 --> 00:07:37.129 All right, let's get on with our guests. This 00:07:37.129 --> 00:07:42.930 is going to be a lot of fun today. I'd like to 00:07:42.930 --> 00:07:45.709 welcome to the show today with a great big aloha, 00:07:45.750 --> 00:07:49.300 Kevin O 'Connor. Good morning, Kevin. Morning. 00:07:49.379 --> 00:07:53.160 Aloha, Eric. How are you? I'm fantastic. Are 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:55.480 you kidding? What's not to love about being in 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.279 this beautiful place? Speaking of beautiful places, 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:04.100 you are in Waiohinu, Hawaii, correct? Yes, down 00:08:04.100 --> 00:08:07.459 close to South Point on the Big Island, which 00:08:07.459 --> 00:08:10.220 is the southernmost point of the United States 00:08:10.220 --> 00:08:14.920 of America, by the way. Yes. OK. and there's 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:17.720 a lot of businesses that will remind you of that 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:20.399 including our favorite punalu bakery and by the 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:22.459 way they're not giving me anything free for saying 00:08:22.459 --> 00:08:25.420 that but uh you can't drive through without getting 00:08:25.420 --> 00:08:29.600 some sweet bread and a malasada anyway hey i 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:33.080 met you at the farmers market the other day and 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:35.220 today we're going to talk about farmers markets 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:37.899 we're going to talk about treatment free beekeeping 00:08:37.899 --> 00:08:42.379 regenerative beekeeping all kinds of things and 00:08:42.409 --> 00:08:45.090 If you don't mind, give me a little bit of background 00:08:45.090 --> 00:08:48.509 first. Yeah. Like when did you start beekeeping? 00:08:48.950 --> 00:08:53.450 Why? What do you love about it? Yeah, so I started 00:08:53.450 --> 00:08:57.250 beekeeping in 2006, this spring. I came out to 00:08:57.250 --> 00:09:00.509 Hawaii that winter and then got a job while I 00:09:00.509 --> 00:09:04.299 was out here catching queen bees. I love about 00:09:04.299 --> 00:09:08.740 beekeeping, the dynamic aspect of it, how it's 00:09:08.740 --> 00:09:10.519 like really kind of connects you with nature. 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:12.580 I've always been a gardener ever since I was 00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:15.399 a kid and then made a business out of it and 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:18.299 always also been, you know, attracted to just 00:09:18.299 --> 00:09:23.259 the natural cycles of nature, the seasonal changes, 00:09:23.500 --> 00:09:25.440 the different flowers and how they interact with 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:28.139 each other and how beautiful they can be when 00:09:28.139 --> 00:09:30.639 you arrange them, you know, in a garden and landscape 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.750 certain ways. and always kind of appreciated 00:09:33.750 --> 00:09:36.330 that different environments and ecosystems require 00:09:36.330 --> 00:09:39.309 different plants and they have different aspects 00:09:39.309 --> 00:09:41.610 that how they contribute to the ecosystem, what 00:09:41.610 --> 00:09:44.610 have you. And honeybees beekeeping is like a 00:09:44.610 --> 00:09:47.429 natural extension to gardening, because honeybees 00:09:47.429 --> 00:09:50.690 are so integral to the garden, as well, of course, 00:09:50.809 --> 00:09:54.169 as other pollinators. But honeybees are something 00:09:54.169 --> 00:09:56.889 that you can actually manage and work with and 00:09:56.889 --> 00:10:00.370 interact with on a more intimate and in -depth 00:10:00.549 --> 00:10:04.370 level. It was interesting catching queens. I 00:10:04.370 --> 00:10:06.950 had not really known anything about beekeeping 00:10:06.950 --> 00:10:09.490 and it was a really quick like deep dive into 00:10:09.490 --> 00:10:11.509 beekeeping because you get to know all about 00:10:11.509 --> 00:10:15.429 all the different aspects of beekeeping and queen 00:10:15.429 --> 00:10:17.950 rearing which kind of is just like a quick deep 00:10:17.950 --> 00:10:21.110 dive into beekeeping and one of the things that 00:10:21.110 --> 00:10:24.909 was like concerning to me at that time we started 00:10:24.909 --> 00:10:27.669 having a lot of like we were calling them blowouts 00:10:27.669 --> 00:10:31.600 where the little nukes weren't surviving two 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:34.879 weeks to even allow that virgin queen to go mate 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:37.899 come back and be caught to sent along around 00:10:37.899 --> 00:10:40.940 the world. We were concerned that as one of the 00:10:40.940 --> 00:10:45.320 first jobs we had in the morning of the beekeeping 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.539 the day we would have a 55 gallon drum and dump 00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:52.490 like seven bags of sugar into that, mix it with 00:10:52.490 --> 00:10:55.309 water and then the fumigillin and stuff like 00:10:55.309 --> 00:10:58.190 that and I was scratching my head like what is 00:10:58.190 --> 00:11:00.029 this all about and you know feeding the bees 00:11:00.029 --> 00:11:03.210 and kind of understood that because it's so intensive 00:11:03.210 --> 00:11:06.450 with allowing that little nuke to raise the queen 00:11:06.450 --> 00:11:09.549 we needed to do that and that got me interested 00:11:09.549 --> 00:11:11.950 in natural beekeeping and other beekeeping methods 00:11:11.950 --> 00:11:16.440 that wasn't so Intensive and stressful on the 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:19.100 bees cuz we're seeing that they weren't surviving 00:11:19.100 --> 00:11:22.519 there was this kind of drop off in the nukes 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.879 lasting and the queens being able to be caught 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:26.740 in thousand two thousand six which is like right 00:11:26.740 --> 00:11:31.059 at the beginning of colony collapse. So yeah 00:11:31.059 --> 00:11:34.100 that was kind of our start of beekeeping. So 00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:38.200 for people that. don't know. Some of the largest 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:41.120 queen producers in the world and some of the 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.919 best are here on the big island of Hawaii. So 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.759 were you working for one of them? Yeah, back 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:51.000 in 2006. Okay, and then you've just sort of taken 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.879 your own journey from there. Your company is 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:56.480 called B -Boys. So it's you and how many other 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:00.090 boys? Just me and Ryan, just two of us right 00:12:00.090 --> 00:12:03.110 now. Alright. Yeah. And then we do have, we work 00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:05.610 with a couple other beekeepers, Artemis Smiles 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:09.490 down on South Point. She does very similar beekeeping 00:12:09.490 --> 00:12:12.389 practices and because our, you know, we've grown 00:12:12.389 --> 00:12:16.850 a bit so and we can't handle all of the... demand 00:12:16.850 --> 00:12:19.090 so which is good we're able to work with other 00:12:19.090 --> 00:12:21.509 beekeepers and and grow in that way because we 00:12:21.509 --> 00:12:23.649 only because of the style of beekeeping it's 00:12:23.649 --> 00:12:26.149 very labor intensive you know beekeeper can't 00:12:26.149 --> 00:12:30.250 really manage many colonies as many colonies 00:12:30.250 --> 00:12:35.149 as large commercial beekeepers do because of 00:12:35.149 --> 00:12:37.230 the labor the difference the different approach 00:12:37.230 --> 00:12:40.100 that we take Well, let's talk about that style 00:12:40.100 --> 00:12:42.799 of beekeeping as long as you brought it up. And 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:44.679 if you don't mind, I'm going to read something 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:47.940 straight from your website. Okay. So hopefully 00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:51.620 this still applies. And oh man, this is where 00:12:51.620 --> 00:12:55.059 the controversy begins. And I love controversy. 00:12:56.539 --> 00:12:59.220 No, we like telling both sides of the story on 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:03.899 this show. So here we go. Your apiary says our 00:13:03.899 --> 00:13:08.519 apiary is 100 % treatment free. We encourage 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:11.799 hygienic behavior in our bees. We allow our bees 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.059 to raise their own queens. Bees are encouraged 00:13:15.059 --> 00:13:18.320 to constantly build their own comb. We do not 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:21.419 use plastic foundation. We do not use beeswax 00:13:21.419 --> 00:13:24.620 foundation. Bees are allowed to swarm and not 00:13:24.620 --> 00:13:28.500 collected. Absolutely no plastic in the hives. 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.779 This includes plastic frames, feeders, and any 00:13:31.779 --> 00:13:35.399 component of the hive. We do not paint hives. 00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:39.779 We do not spin honey or reuse honeycomb. We refrain 00:13:39.779 --> 00:13:42.539 from pesticide and herbicide use completely. 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.759 We do not feed our bees ever. We do not move 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:50.539 bees for pollination services or nectar sources. 00:13:51.059 --> 00:13:55.200 We follow biodynamic principles and apply instinctual 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:59.340 beekeeping methods. I'm almost done. We do not 00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:02.039 purchase commercial bee stock or collect swarms. 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:04.919 We maintain an eight -year line of genetics. 00:14:05.450 --> 00:14:08.309 All our current colonies came from the same colony 00:14:08.309 --> 00:14:12.169 eight years ago. Our entire apiary is a true 00:14:12.169 --> 00:14:15.590 family. Okay, where do we jump in? How do you 00:14:15.590 --> 00:14:19.590 want to explain that? So, yeah, we keep bees 00:14:19.590 --> 00:14:22.149 basically how they were kept hundreds of years 00:14:22.149 --> 00:14:24.490 ago before we got too smart for ourselves. You 00:14:24.490 --> 00:14:27.809 know, we found that through all of our intense 00:14:27.809 --> 00:14:31.570 research about colony collapse disorder and engaging 00:14:31.570 --> 00:14:34.090 interacting with the honey bees, you know, it's 00:14:34.090 --> 00:14:38.139 a big one. lesson we learned was in 2010. So 00:14:38.139 --> 00:14:41.759 we became keeping bees in Hawaii and then suburbs 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:45.019 of Philadelphia, southeastern Pennsylvania. We 00:14:45.019 --> 00:14:46.759 don't keep bees in southeastern Pennsylvania 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:49.899 anymore. We stopped in like about eight years 00:14:49.899 --> 00:14:53.090 ago. And the biggest lesson we learned in southeastern 00:14:53.090 --> 00:14:55.830 Pennsylvania was our bees were always kind of 00:14:55.830 --> 00:14:58.490 struggling until the economy kind of started 00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:01.730 collapsing in 2008, seven, eight. One of the 00:15:01.730 --> 00:15:03.210 first things that our neighbors did, because 00:15:03.210 --> 00:15:05.750 we're in suburbs, you know, it's not agriculture, 00:15:06.149 --> 00:15:09.149 but it's similar within there's a lot of chemicals 00:15:09.149 --> 00:15:11.750 used in the garden and on the lawn. And one of 00:15:11.750 --> 00:15:13.649 the first things that people stopped doing because 00:15:13.649 --> 00:15:15.970 it was easy to cut and save hundreds of dollars 00:15:15.970 --> 00:15:19.779 a month, not using the herbicide, the chemlon, 00:15:19.899 --> 00:15:22.360 I think they call it true green now, and all 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:25.740 of the different strong chemicals to make that 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:28.919 golf course green lawn. And what started happening 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:31.299 is in our neighborhood, all the dandelions started 00:15:31.299 --> 00:15:33.639 popping up, all the ground ivy, which is a beautiful 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.519 little purple flower, clover, violets, all the 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:41.159 little wildflowers that live in the lawn that 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:43.460 makes for a healthier lawn, it kept it greener, 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:47.120 longer. during the droughts of the summer, and 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.019 our bees were thriving in the suburbs of Philadelphia. 00:15:51.139 --> 00:15:55.279 We had swarms. We were collecting gallons and 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:58.379 gallons of honey per colony and not using treatments. 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:02.399 Yes, we were planting thyme in front of the hive, 00:16:02.539 --> 00:16:04.779 the bees all around in the gardens and stuff, 00:16:04.860 --> 00:16:08.950 because the bees collect the thyme. rosins, propolis, 00:16:09.090 --> 00:16:12.389 to create their own medicines for the varroa 00:16:12.389 --> 00:16:14.490 mite. And there's many different facets of it 00:16:14.490 --> 00:16:16.529 with being treatment free and having them build 00:16:16.529 --> 00:16:19.009 their own honeycomb. They start making their 00:16:19.009 --> 00:16:21.909 cell size smaller and all these different things. 00:16:22.009 --> 00:16:24.629 And also, yes, you're going to lose bees during 00:16:24.629 --> 00:16:27.049 the process because the genetics that aren't 00:16:27.049 --> 00:16:29.570 strong to survive all these different changes 00:16:29.570 --> 00:16:32.350 and stressors will fall away. And the genetics 00:16:32.350 --> 00:16:35.350 that are strong and are able to adapt will come 00:16:35.350 --> 00:16:38.110 forward. Are you a beekeeper who loves sharing 00:16:38.110 --> 00:16:41.169 tips, asking questions and showing off your latest 00:16:41.169 --> 00:16:44.269 honey haul? Then join the hive introducing the 00:16:44.269 --> 00:16:47.289 Man Lake beekeeping community on Facebook, your 00:16:47.289 --> 00:16:50.629 new go -to for everything honey bees. Whether 00:16:50.629 --> 00:16:53.750 you're struggling with mites, trying a new winterization 00:16:53.750 --> 00:16:56.870 method, or just need to know what that weird 00:16:56.870 --> 00:17:00.309 thing on your frame is, our group is a supportive, 00:17:00.629 --> 00:17:03.610 spam -free zone for beginners and pros alike. 00:17:03.870 --> 00:17:06.269 Stop scrolling through endless forums and connect 00:17:06.269 --> 00:17:08.569 directly with beekeepers and the professionals 00:17:08.569 --> 00:17:11.930 at Man Lake in one buzzing place. We'll put a 00:17:11.930 --> 00:17:14.750 link to it down in the show notes. Just click 00:17:14.750 --> 00:17:18.490 over and join up. And that's using nature's way 00:17:18.490 --> 00:17:21.099 instead of you know, getting in the microscope 00:17:21.099 --> 00:17:23.539 and grafting or doing all that stuff to create, 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:25.940 you know, oh, we want this desirable trade or 00:17:25.940 --> 00:17:27.940 that desirable trade. We allowed the bees to 00:17:27.940 --> 00:17:31.420 do it because they know how to be better than 00:17:31.420 --> 00:17:35.079 we do. So that's the approach that we took and 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:40.720 that we found success. And then in 2010, in suburbs 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.099 of Philadelphia, the economy started coming back 00:17:43.099 --> 00:17:46.829 and people started using the true green again 00:17:46.829 --> 00:17:50.829 and spraying their trees because all these ornamental 00:17:50.829 --> 00:17:54.650 gardens are, you know, they require all these 00:17:54.650 --> 00:17:57.589 chemical intervention, which isn't necessary. 00:17:57.769 --> 00:18:00.250 But anyway, people started doing it, you know, 00:18:00.309 --> 00:18:03.589 good marketing, stronger, healthier, happier 00:18:03.589 --> 00:18:06.490 gardens and lawns that are all golf course again. 00:18:06.730 --> 00:18:10.549 And the bees could not collect enough nectar 00:18:10.549 --> 00:18:13.779 to make the comb to make the honey. or to store 00:18:13.779 --> 00:18:15.980 the honey for the winter. So we found ourselves 00:18:15.980 --> 00:18:18.660 scrambling, feeding our bees, which we hadn't 00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:22.680 done for quite a few years. And we were using 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:28.259 like a tea mixture, sugar water, with this biodynamic 00:18:28.259 --> 00:18:31.240 preparation of like mint and thyme and a little 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:34.920 sea salt and chamomile and to make it a little 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.700 easier for the bees to digest the sugar. And 00:18:37.700 --> 00:18:40.700 we were looking at each other having this conversation 00:18:40.700 --> 00:18:43.480 about like, well, if our bees cannot survive 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.619 in this situation, what makes because we've always 00:18:46.619 --> 00:18:48.640 heard the honeybees are the canary in the coal 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.220 mine. What makes us think that this is a healthy 00:18:51.220 --> 00:18:53.140 environment for us? So that's when we kind of 00:18:53.140 --> 00:18:56.359 made the decision to move full time to Big Island, 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:00.890 Hawaii. It sounds so perfect and idyllic. And 00:19:00.890 --> 00:19:03.349 it doesn't work for everybody, Kevin. No, of 00:19:03.349 --> 00:19:06.150 course not. It works as long as you're willing 00:19:06.150 --> 00:19:10.069 to take the risks and suffer the losses for the 00:19:10.069 --> 00:19:12.910 long -term gain. And that's what it is. We're 00:19:12.910 --> 00:19:14.529 looking at it long -term. We're not looking at 00:19:14.529 --> 00:19:17.269 it this year, these few months. We're looking 00:19:17.269 --> 00:19:21.150 at it intergenerationally so that the genetics 00:19:21.150 --> 00:19:24.369 of the bees is stronger. And yes, if you have 00:19:24.369 --> 00:19:27.069 thousands of colonies that you're trying to maintain 00:19:27.069 --> 00:19:30.309 with only a couple dozen employees, you cannot 00:19:30.309 --> 00:19:32.869 do it how we do it. You're also not going to 00:19:32.869 --> 00:19:35.470 get the quality of honey and wax and the strength 00:19:35.470 --> 00:19:37.990 and integrity and genetics in the bees. Because 00:19:37.990 --> 00:19:40.269 there's going to be, it's like a patchwork. We 00:19:40.269 --> 00:19:44.670 think we know, but we cannot comprehend the complexity 00:19:44.670 --> 00:19:48.109 of genetics and honeybee genetics and the flexibility 00:19:48.109 --> 00:19:50.910 and fluidity and plasticity that it has as well 00:19:50.910 --> 00:19:54.049 and its ability to adapt. So what we're working 00:19:54.049 --> 00:19:57.730 on is creating like a land race bee where we're 00:19:57.730 --> 00:19:59.779 located. Because we don't move them around, we 00:19:59.779 --> 00:20:02.339 don't do the pollination services. Yes, right 00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:05.480 now, the bee industry, it's geared towards pollination 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.380 services. It's honey. How much, how many dollars 00:20:08.380 --> 00:20:11.700 a pound is the honey? It is so cheap right now. 00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:14.000 None of the commercial guys are making a living 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.400 on honey. It doesn't work. Yeah. And then also, 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:21.019 so then, so you have the other aspect, the agricultural 00:20:21.019 --> 00:20:23.839 aspect, the pollination services. If we were 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.960 to work with the orchard tenders and be like, 00:20:27.069 --> 00:20:31.130 say hey you know an idea would be why don't we 00:20:31.130 --> 00:20:34.210 park these bees here we'll have some in -house 00:20:34.210 --> 00:20:37.450 beekeepers ours yours we'll train whatever and 00:20:37.450 --> 00:20:41.269 then you also have forage for the bees that you 00:20:41.269 --> 00:20:43.750 plant inter -row depending upon how it is or 00:20:43.750 --> 00:20:46.730 maybe take out a few acres of almonds to plant 00:20:46.730 --> 00:20:50.349 some mixed diverse plantings but it's it's like 00:20:50.349 --> 00:20:53.309 a it's a slippery slope because the agricultural 00:20:53.309 --> 00:20:56.279 industry is so intertwined with big big chemical, 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.400 big ag, genetic engineering, genetic manipulation, 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.160 all that stuff, and they don't want to turn that 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:05.660 spigot off. And I get that. You know, once you 00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:07.480 do something, you create something, it's like 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.799 we put all this time and energy in creating this 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.099 product. We want to be able to sell it. We want 00:21:13.099 --> 00:21:16.259 to ensure that that market's there. And, however, 00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:19.819 that way of doing business is really destroying 00:21:19.819 --> 00:21:23.140 our ecosystem and destroying our bees. Like, 00:21:23.140 --> 00:21:26.970 70 % loss last year, across the continent, that's 00:21:26.970 --> 00:21:30.829 not sustainable. It was crazy how high it was. 00:21:31.250 --> 00:21:34.829 The initial numbers were 62%. Nobody knows exactly 00:21:34.829 --> 00:21:38.509 what it was, but it was well over a million colonies, 00:21:38.549 --> 00:21:41.190 and it may have been 70%. And in some areas, 00:21:41.269 --> 00:21:44.470 it was even higher than that. And some people 00:21:44.470 --> 00:21:47.410 were saying, some people told me in the industry, 00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:51.309 the reason it was that way is because beekeepers 00:21:51.309 --> 00:21:54.609 didn't use enough chemicals enough treatment 00:21:54.609 --> 00:21:57.710 for varroa and you're saying it's the opposite 00:21:57.710 --> 00:22:01.849 and i'm not the judge here okay i love what you 00:22:01.849 --> 00:22:03.910 guys are doing i want to play devil's advocate 00:22:03.910 --> 00:22:06.890 for a second because i'm sure you hear it there 00:22:06.890 --> 00:22:10.390 are some areas depending on the climate and stuff 00:22:10.390 --> 00:22:15.269 like where i am hard winters if varroa levels 00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:18.250 are hardly anything they don't make it through 00:22:18.250 --> 00:22:21.220 winter period So that's that's thing number one 00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:24.579 is can everybody do it where they live what you're 00:22:24.579 --> 00:22:28.059 doing. And thing number two that i always hear. 00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:31.960 And i don't know what stock to put in this is 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:34.640 oh well if you're doing that you're sending for 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.279 all bombs over to my hives and so i'm getting 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:40.059 for all bomb by you so thanks a lot you jerk. 00:22:40.819 --> 00:22:44.440 Yeah yeah. And there's everything in between 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.039 i wish we could all do it how you do it. But 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:50.380 we don't all, we either don't all know how or 00:22:50.380 --> 00:22:54.039 we just can't where we live. What is it? So it's 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:57.059 both of those. Well, yes, you can everywhere. 00:22:57.420 --> 00:23:00.099 However, it's going to take time. It's not, we 00:23:00.099 --> 00:23:03.700 can't do it overnight because it's taken us years 00:23:03.700 --> 00:23:06.799 and lots of losses at the beginning. And now 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:11.339 our losses, we keep around 50 colonies and maybe 00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:14.279 we'll lose two a year. Our losses are really 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:18.170 low. And that's genetics, right? That's how that's 00:23:18.170 --> 00:23:20.509 what I attribute it to. That's genetic and that's 00:23:20.509 --> 00:23:23.329 what other treatment -free beekeepers tell me. 00:23:23.349 --> 00:23:26.589 The ones that can do it are like, hey, we have 00:23:26.589 --> 00:23:29.309 bred for this. The ones that can't deal with 00:23:29.309 --> 00:23:33.789 it, they die. That's okay to us. It's hard. It's 00:23:33.789 --> 00:23:36.809 still hard to lose a beehive. Sure it is because 00:23:36.809 --> 00:23:40.109 we feel responsible because we're the beekeepers 00:23:40.109 --> 00:23:44.059 even though out there, you know, in the forest, 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:47.000 that's exactly what's going to happen. The survival 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:50.500 of the fittest kind of thing. And I couldn't 00:23:50.500 --> 00:23:53.180 imagine how hard it would be being a larger beekeeper, 00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:55.680 having thousands, managing thousands of colonies 00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:00.140 and losing half of them. It's like so difficult. 00:24:00.619 --> 00:24:03.099 Sleepless nights, I imagine. So one of the things 00:24:03.099 --> 00:24:06.160 I think that not only the genetics, not only 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.140 are we allowing them to build their own honeycomb, 00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:10.839 which shrinks, they start making a smaller cell 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:13.529 size. shrinks the honeybee just a little bit, 00:24:13.529 --> 00:24:15.650 just a little bit smaller of a gestation period, 00:24:15.829 --> 00:24:18.549 smaller, a little feistier bee. That part is 00:24:18.549 --> 00:24:21.009 great, that part is what we have control over, 00:24:21.450 --> 00:24:23.589 and but we're on a tiny little quarter acre, 00:24:23.690 --> 00:24:25.849 but we're surrounded by thousands of acres of 00:24:25.849 --> 00:24:28.990 open space. That's not, it used to be old pasture 00:24:28.990 --> 00:24:31.950 land that's kind of been gone back to forest, 00:24:32.190 --> 00:24:34.450 and it's like Christmas berry, which is an introduced 00:24:34.450 --> 00:24:37.470 species, and as well as something they call hollycoa, 00:24:37.569 --> 00:24:40.299 which is another introduced species. But because 00:24:40.299 --> 00:24:44.039 we have all of this open space that's not treated 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.240 by that many chemicals and we have an abundant 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:49.839 amount of forage through many seasons throughout 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:54.160 the year, our bees have the food stock that they 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:57.759 need to thrive and they have the diversity. to 00:24:57.759 --> 00:24:59.839 enable themselves to get the different types 00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:02.940 of rosins, the propolis, and the different pollens 00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:07.559 to give them a good, healthy, diverse diet. It's 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:09.940 like you think about the diet of a person. You 00:25:09.940 --> 00:25:12.319 want to have, you know, a healthy diet, well 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:14.440 -balanced, all that stuff. We want the same thing 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:18.160 for a bee. So when you have bees eating in monocultures, 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:20.579 they're not getting a diverse diet. And then 00:25:20.579 --> 00:25:22.799 when you're feeding them on top of that, it's 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.099 like eating you know popcorn is your main diet 00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:29.640 and then drinking soda and french fries and that's 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:34.019 your that's what you got and that's big ag unfortunately 00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:36.740 and also in a lot of these different areas we 00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:40.660 have changed the ecosystem across the country 00:25:40.660 --> 00:25:44.700 by cutting down forests or raising prairies you 00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:47.099 know plowing all that stuff and not allowing 00:25:47.630 --> 00:25:52.109 for the natural cycles to balance and regulate 00:25:52.109 --> 00:25:55.769 and offer a diverse amount of forage for all 00:25:55.769 --> 00:25:58.809 throughout the year. And a lot of other regenerative 00:25:58.809 --> 00:26:00.309 beekeepers are starting to, I mean, not just 00:26:00.309 --> 00:26:04.450 beekeepers, sorry, land tenders, farmers, they're 00:26:04.450 --> 00:26:06.910 starting to not till the land. They're starting 00:26:06.910 --> 00:26:12.940 to allow the ecosystem to develop. and they're 00:26:12.940 --> 00:26:15.660 preventing soil erosion. And what that does for 00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:18.200 beekeepers is it creates all those wildflower 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.180 habitat. So the bees are going to have the opportunity 00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:24.539 to have more diverse food. So you have those 00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:26.599 two things go hand in hand, allowing the bees 00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:30.380 to kind of do what they do best is them, be them. 00:26:30.970 --> 00:26:33.910 and then ensure that we have a diverse, healthy 00:26:33.910 --> 00:26:37.289 ecosystem for the bees to forage. Once you have 00:26:37.289 --> 00:26:39.630 both of those, and that's what we have here in 00:26:39.630 --> 00:26:43.329 Hawaii, then you can do the natural beekeeping, 00:26:43.450 --> 00:26:45.210 allow them to build their own honeycomb. And 00:26:45.210 --> 00:26:49.089 I did want to talk some transitional tips and 00:26:49.089 --> 00:26:53.660 ideas. When you just go like you want to okay, 00:26:53.660 --> 00:26:56.460 I'm gonna be tremendously foundational foundationless 00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:59.819 rather the bees because over multi -generations 00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:02.099 They've always been given this foundation. They 00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:05.660 kind of Forget how to build like parallel and 00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:08.559 all that stuff when you have a swarm though There's 00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:11.099 something unique and we don't collect swarms 00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:14.799 as a different story, but we used to when you 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.099 have a swarm they for some reason are able they 00:27:18.099 --> 00:27:21.319 it's like when they swarm something resets when 00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:23.900 they come back you catch them or or you know 00:27:23.900 --> 00:27:26.720 you put them in a box and we do use Langstroth 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:29.640 boxes with uh but we call it top bar methods 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:32.279 sometimes we have the full frame sometimes just 00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:35.259 the top bar sometimes the top and just the sides 00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:39.579 deep boxes medium boxes both deeps and mediums 00:27:39.579 --> 00:27:42.259 uh deeps for the brood we try to do two deep 00:27:42.259 --> 00:27:44.980 brood uh chambers and then we'll build depending 00:27:44.980 --> 00:27:49.779 upon the year and the age and vigor of the colony 00:27:49.779 --> 00:27:53.079 will put, will build small boxes on them. And 00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:55.400 that too, like we allow the bees to take their 00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:58.440 own pace. Some bees will, and we do walk away 00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.079 splits, but I want to get back to the comb building. 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:04.119 If you're starting with a managed colony that's, 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:06.119 that you already have the foundation in there, 00:28:06.500 --> 00:28:10.240 you can start in the super by doing like every 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:14.470 other frame, one foundation. one empty that way 00:28:14.470 --> 00:28:17.630 they have that like straight like avenue to build 00:28:17.630 --> 00:28:20.470 in and if they start building in an arch which 00:28:20.470 --> 00:28:23.250 they they like to you can like turn them around 00:28:23.250 --> 00:28:25.509 so that they'll straighten it back out and you 00:28:25.509 --> 00:28:28.109 get a little snake in there and also they love 00:28:28.109 --> 00:28:31.369 facing southeast or south southeast and they 00:28:31.369 --> 00:28:35.009 need to be level because if you have it's it's 00:28:35.009 --> 00:28:38.130 crooked the bees build they festoon they hold 00:28:38.130 --> 00:28:42.339 from the top and they build And they use gravity, 00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:45.720 like law of chains or something, where they will 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.059 build that comb. And if it's at an angle, that 00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:50.160 comb will come down at an angle, so that's important 00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:52.539 to be level. Also, just keep an eye if you do 00:28:52.539 --> 00:28:55.779 want parallel frames to flip them back and forth. 00:28:55.819 --> 00:28:58.579 And then you can get into the brew chamber. You 00:28:58.579 --> 00:29:01.799 can take the honey frames from the top that they 00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:04.259 built and put them on the sides. And you can 00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:06.519 take out maybe one or two frames in there and 00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:08.779 do the same thing, allow them to build. they're 00:29:08.779 --> 00:29:11.079 generally on a when they're on the nectar flow 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:13.839 they'll build that out real quick with within 00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:16.039 a day or two and the bee and the queen will will 00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:18.380 be laying in there shortly and you can always 00:29:18.380 --> 00:29:22.140 do that when you're calling for pollen or or 00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:24.819 make sure that the the brew chamber is not honey 00:29:24.819 --> 00:29:29.160 bound and things like that okay so patients be 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.579 willing to let some bees die guess what a lot 00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:34.779 of people's bees die even if they're not willing 00:29:34.779 --> 00:29:37.759 to let them die so is it really that different 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.039 The fact that you're willing to let them swarm 00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:41.980 I think is a big deal too because you've got 00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:46.019 brute breaks. It's not like you guys are just 00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:48.359 lazy and doing nothing. You're actually doing 00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:50.900 a lot. It just doesn't happen to be chemical 00:29:50.900 --> 00:29:53.579 treatment. A lot of monitoring, a lot of just 00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:56.039 seeing where the bees are. you know, if they're 00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.359 starting to separate doing the queen cell building, 00:30:00.619 --> 00:30:02.640 we'll let them do that. And we let them, we stopped 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:05.359 collecting swarms for two reasons. In Hawaii, 00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:07.000 when the small hive beetle and varroa mite got 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:10.519 here, the county decided that they wanted to 00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:13.619 kill all of the feral colonies and the trees 00:30:13.619 --> 00:30:15.059 and the caves because they thought there would 00:30:15.059 --> 00:30:17.779 be vectors spreading varroa mite and small hive 00:30:17.779 --> 00:30:20.039 beetles. So they destroyed a lot of the feral. 00:30:20.170 --> 00:30:23.009 stock that the queen beaters were kind of depending 00:30:23.009 --> 00:30:25.309 upon that they didn't realize for their genetics 00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:27.650 because the the virgin queen will go out and 00:30:27.650 --> 00:30:30.170 then she'll mate with all the drones not just 00:30:30.170 --> 00:30:33.269 the managed drones but the feral drones as well 00:30:33.269 --> 00:30:35.250 and that brings some good and genetic integrity 00:30:35.250 --> 00:30:38.130 but when you have you know that that bottleneck 00:30:38.130 --> 00:30:41.509 it doesn't allow that so we're allowing the um 00:30:41.509 --> 00:30:45.529 the swarms to fly to repopulate the area again 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.440 to create those feral colonies that are essential. 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.160 And then another reason we don't collect swarms 00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:54.160 is because when we started collecting swarms, 00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:57.279 or we're collecting swarms, and then we noticed 00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:00.980 there was this tendency where they weren't swarms. 00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:04.339 They looked like swarms, but they were abscantions. 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:08.859 And that's a colony because a small high beetle 00:31:08.859 --> 00:31:11.339 got in there, slimed them out, they flew away, 00:31:11.339 --> 00:31:14.059 and they were looking for a new home. but they're 00:31:14.059 --> 00:31:17.400 not swarms, so when you grab them, when you collect 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:21.880 them and put them in a box, when you collect 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:24.180 them and put them in a box, they weren't having 00:31:24.180 --> 00:31:26.440 that, there was just this chaos, they didn't 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:28.039 have, they weren't building, they were in this 00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:30.140 like panic mode, and then they would fly away 00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:32.660 again. And so that's when we stopped collecting 00:31:32.660 --> 00:31:34.500 swarms, because we don't know, we would go through 00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:36.279 all this trouble, you know, put up the ladder, 00:31:36.380 --> 00:31:39.980 climb, and you know, collect and take a few hours 00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:42.099 and all this time, and then they continue to 00:31:42.099 --> 00:31:45.509 fly away. So we just decided to let them, let 00:31:45.509 --> 00:31:48.529 them be. And to do, we multiply our colonies 00:31:48.529 --> 00:31:51.309 through what we call walkaway splits. So we'll 00:31:51.309 --> 00:31:54.450 take three frames of the three stages of brood, 00:31:55.130 --> 00:31:57.890 egg, egg larva and cat brood, and then a couple 00:31:57.890 --> 00:32:01.029 frames of honey. And then we'll, sometimes the 00:32:01.029 --> 00:32:03.190 queen comes with them. Sometimes she doesn't. 00:32:03.190 --> 00:32:07.069 We're not always that good at making sure we 00:32:07.069 --> 00:32:09.190 know where the queen is when we do this, which 00:32:09.190 --> 00:32:12.369 in which case. if we do bring the queen with 00:32:12.369 --> 00:32:14.210 us, then it gives a brood break for the larger 00:32:14.210 --> 00:32:18.650 colony, and then it creates a very vigorous new, 00:32:18.650 --> 00:32:21.069 what do you call it? New nuke, new colony. Yeah, 00:32:21.109 --> 00:32:24.490 new colony. I mean, a walk away split, it could 00:32:24.490 --> 00:32:27.269 be either side. Yeah. Right? It could be either 00:32:27.269 --> 00:32:29.529 the side you left or the side that you took and 00:32:29.529 --> 00:32:33.849 moved. In fact, in a regular swarm, the queen 00:32:33.849 --> 00:32:37.920 is going to leave. Yeah. So, I think it's funny 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:41.039 that people think a walk -away split should never 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:44.059 have a queen in it or any kind of split for that 00:32:44.059 --> 00:32:45.859 matter should never have the original queen. 00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:49.920 I'm like okay once again we're not working how 00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:52.359 the beans work for some reason because we know 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:54.759 better. Anyway let's shift gears for a minute 00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:57.680 before we run out of time here. Tell me about 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:00.279 farmers markets and a little bit about your business 00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:02.839 because I think there are a lot of beekeepers 00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:06.160 that are Sideliners or hobbyists that maybe want 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:08.799 to move up to sideline or want to learn how to 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:11.980 make a few bucks doing what they love and They 00:33:11.980 --> 00:33:14.579 know about farmers markets, but what advice do 00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:17.259 you have for them? How did what work good? Yeah 00:33:17.259 --> 00:33:19.440 before I answer that question. I do wanted to 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.119 touch base real quick on the the mite bomb, small 00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:25.599 hive beetle bomb that you mentioned about treatment 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:27.859 -free beekeepers, because that was really a big 00:33:27.859 --> 00:33:29.240 thing. We were getting a lot of that feedback 00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.039 when we started telling other beekeepers, oh, 00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:32.859 we're going to be doing this treatment -free. 00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:35.460 And they were telling us that exact thing. Oh, 00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:38.119 you're going to be reeling our bees and all that. 00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:41.799 And cut to eight years later in Hawaii Island, 00:33:42.059 --> 00:33:43.680 all the queen breeders, they've kind of tried 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:45.720 to move down here. And even though it's not working 00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:47.500 out for them, it's really windy, hard to breed 00:33:47.500 --> 00:33:50.549 queens down here. they're asking us for our genetics. 00:33:50.690 --> 00:33:54.730 They're like, can we have a few drones? So the 00:33:54.730 --> 00:33:57.630 opposite has happened over time. Well, and you're 00:33:57.630 --> 00:34:00.650 also in an area where there's not a lot of other 00:34:00.650 --> 00:34:03.430 beekeepers right around you that you're going 00:34:03.430 --> 00:34:06.529 to be mite bombing if that indeed is a thing. 00:34:07.329 --> 00:34:09.750 So the opposite has happened. Actually, we find 00:34:09.750 --> 00:34:12.349 that when the migratory beekeepers move in, the 00:34:12.349 --> 00:34:15.650 mite count and the small high beetle count skyrockets. 00:34:15.750 --> 00:34:18.409 And that's kind of like the washing time, like 00:34:18.409 --> 00:34:22.309 when that happens, the strong genetics really 00:34:22.309 --> 00:34:25.429 shows and the weak genetics falls away. So, but 00:34:25.429 --> 00:34:28.150 luckily our bees aren't having much fall away 00:34:28.150 --> 00:34:31.269 anymore. And then, so yeah, to speak to farmers 00:34:31.269 --> 00:34:34.989 markets, it's such a great way to connect with 00:34:34.989 --> 00:34:37.710 your community. It's a great way to let people 00:34:37.710 --> 00:34:41.489 know. that you're there, that you want a healthy 00:34:41.489 --> 00:34:44.969 ecosystem, and that it's all of our responsibility 00:34:44.969 --> 00:34:47.969 to ensure that we have a healthy ecosystem. And 00:34:47.969 --> 00:34:51.489 the nicer that you keep your property, the cleaner 00:34:51.489 --> 00:34:53.449 and purer your beeswax and honey is going to 00:34:53.449 --> 00:34:55.550 be for our skincare products and what have you. 00:34:55.849 --> 00:34:58.489 So that's one way, a great way to interact with 00:34:58.489 --> 00:35:01.510 the community. And different products we do, 00:35:01.590 --> 00:35:03.710 you know, the beeswax, we make a lot of skincare 00:35:03.710 --> 00:35:07.429 products with it. We find that skincare, we get 00:35:07.429 --> 00:35:10.460 better bang for the buck for making our own salves 00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:13.320 and balms. And we use all organic ingredients, 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:16.519 our beeswax. And because every time we're harvesting 00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:19.619 our honey, we're cutting out the honeycomb. And 00:35:19.619 --> 00:35:22.400 we're literally crushing it, straining it, letting 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:27.280 the gravity pull it out. And then... Pressing 00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.039 it a little bit and then we wash that wax with 00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.639 that water We make June for ourselves to drink 00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:35.340 and and share with our friends We don't sell 00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:38.579 that just yet And we also make vinegar honey 00:35:38.579 --> 00:35:42.280 vinegars from that and then we with the beeswax 00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:44.639 We make the skincare products and we do you know 00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:48.119 cold infusions and or heat infusions of different 00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:51.809 herbs and botanicals We grow a lot and we basically 00:35:51.809 --> 00:35:54.929 replaced our medicine cabinet with all of the 00:35:54.929 --> 00:35:57.769 different salves and balms that we make from 00:35:57.769 --> 00:36:00.489 bath body beauty care, you know, age -defying 00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:03.369 salves, long -lasting deodorants, pain relievers, 00:36:03.489 --> 00:36:06.650 and that's all from different flowers, botanicals, 00:36:06.929 --> 00:36:10.190 and some minerals like zinc and stuff like that. 00:36:10.670 --> 00:36:13.550 Basically, you start small. We started with two 00:36:13.550 --> 00:36:15.809 salves and we were doing candles. You know, we 00:36:15.809 --> 00:36:18.429 were pouring our own foundation and rolling them. 00:36:18.570 --> 00:36:21.690 That's very time -consuming, but you know you 00:36:21.690 --> 00:36:25.510 put your Value yourself value your time and the 00:36:25.510 --> 00:36:28.010 community values you your time and your products 00:36:28.010 --> 00:36:31.610 too, and they actually work. It's the same We're 00:36:31.610 --> 00:36:34.610 you know working with arnica and cayenne and 00:36:34.610 --> 00:36:38.230 calendula Come free these are herbs chamomile 00:36:38.230 --> 00:36:40.429 that we've been people have been using and are 00:36:40.429 --> 00:36:43.869 relatively familiar with and they work Instead 00:36:43.869 --> 00:36:47.449 of using things that are synthesized from the 00:36:47.449 --> 00:36:50.849 drugstore we can use the herbs and botanicals 00:36:50.849 --> 00:36:53.730 that, you know, have stood the test of time. 00:36:54.090 --> 00:36:55.750 This is what our great -grandparents were using. 00:36:56.150 --> 00:36:59.230 And people, there's like an attractiveness to 00:36:59.230 --> 00:37:01.329 that again. Because there's this big, you know, 00:37:01.530 --> 00:37:05.469 AI and data center and all this smart technology. 00:37:05.889 --> 00:37:08.429 It's creating this big disconnect that we have. 00:37:08.750 --> 00:37:10.670 You know, right now we're actually having this 00:37:10.670 --> 00:37:13.050 conversation on a smarty -phone, you know, visi 00:37:13.050 --> 00:37:17.170 -phone instead of in person. And that's where 00:37:17.170 --> 00:37:20.659 I think Farmer's Markets kind of puts that personal 00:37:20.659 --> 00:37:23.900 touch back onto it. And it gives so much more 00:37:23.900 --> 00:37:26.000 value when you actually know the person that's 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:28.679 making your products and keeping your bees and 00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:30.380 where they're keeping them and what they're doing. 00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:32.960 And it's just exciting. You know what I mean? 00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:35.039 People like you who are also really interested 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.500 in honey bees. That's awesome. And I just want 00:37:38.500 --> 00:37:40.840 to add one thing about the Farmer's Markets. 00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:43.900 And that is if someone listening is not a beekeeper 00:37:43.900 --> 00:37:48.019 yet, please Don't don't go get your honey at 00:37:48.019 --> 00:37:51.320 the grocery store. Go to the local farmers market 00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:54.019 where you can talk to the beekeeper. You can 00:37:54.019 --> 00:37:57.280 ask questions. What kinds of what kinds of chemicals 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:00.719 are you using? What are the bees feeding on? 00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:02.980 You can ask them any kinds of questions that 00:38:02.980 --> 00:38:05.820 you want. Feel very comfortable about what you're 00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:09.139 doing and you're going to learn something. Beekeepers 00:38:09.139 --> 00:38:12.639 are so good at sharing information. You know, 00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:16.039 I could probably say, hey, Kevin, why do you 00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:18.719 put propolis in this one salve? And I'll bet 00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:21.300 you could go on for 20 minutes telling me why 00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:24.940 and it would be good stuff. Yeah. So that's an 00:38:24.940 --> 00:38:28.199 encouragement as well. And hey, you know, I mean, 00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.300 I don't want this to sound. to sound too capitalistic, 00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:35.039 but you're also making top dollar at those farmers 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:38.199 markets because there's no middleman. It's just 00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:42.179 you straight there at hopefully a good full retail 00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:46.519 fair price. And that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And 00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.059 people appreciate that. They'd rather pay good 00:38:49.059 --> 00:38:51.880 money to somebody in their community than pay 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.239 it to a big company that's, you know, brought 00:38:55.239 --> 00:38:57.900 it in from China. You know, no offense to China, 00:38:57.900 --> 00:38:59.800 but I mean, like they're getting beat up, right? 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:05.400 Well, but that's a generic. A lot of the honey 00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:09.219 that you're buying in the supermarket comes from 00:39:09.219 --> 00:39:13.139 out of the country. And frankly, the technology 00:39:13.139 --> 00:39:17.760 is not there yet to know what all is in it. They're 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:22.739 finding a lot of stuff is cut with high fructose 00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:26.199 corn syrup with, you know, additives like that 00:39:26.199 --> 00:39:29.500 that are super, super cheap. And so it's really 00:39:29.500 --> 00:39:33.800 cheap. And that's the other reason why for beekeepers, 00:39:33.820 --> 00:39:36.920 it's so hard to make money selling honey. Well, 00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:40.219 that's why we charge top dollar, you know, completely 00:39:40.219 --> 00:39:43.719 honest, $45 for a pint of honey is what we charge 00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:47.579 and $50 if we put the comb in there. And that's 00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:50.159 a reflection of the time and energy that it's 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:53.000 taken over a couple decades to figure this out. 00:39:53.260 --> 00:39:56.039 and also that creates that higher quality product 00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:58.699 and you can taste the difference and also speaking 00:39:58.699 --> 00:40:01.360 to like if you are conventional or if you're 00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:04.599 in transition or even organic standards which 00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:07.780 can use plastic foundation and use some treatments 00:40:07.780 --> 00:40:11.739 even if you are those beekeepers it's still awesome 00:40:11.739 --> 00:40:14.639 to offer that honey i'm not saying it's it's 00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:17.219 it's not worth offering to the community. It's 00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:20.019 excellent. It's better honey than what you're 00:40:20.019 --> 00:40:22.219 just saying. It's better honey than what you 00:40:22.219 --> 00:40:25.000 can get at the grocery store. And you can talk 00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:26.920 to the people about their seasonal allergies, 00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:29.260 what time of season do they have it, and then 00:40:29.260 --> 00:40:31.940 you have the honey. You have the cure for them, 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.619 the medicine for them. And also, honey's been 00:40:34.619 --> 00:40:38.300 shown to kill staph, you know, the MRSA. Like, 00:40:38.340 --> 00:40:41.920 it's better than some antibiotics. And propolis 00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:45.119 kills COVID. You know, it's like, it's been proven. 00:40:45.460 --> 00:40:47.260 There's scientists, there's studies out there 00:40:47.260 --> 00:40:50.460 that show these things. And this is, instead 00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:53.280 of using these crazy chemicals on us too, we 00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:55.139 can use the medicine that the bees are using, 00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:57.980 and the bees are collecting. It's excellent, 00:40:57.980 --> 00:41:00.639 it's amazing. We've done a couple episodes on 00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:05.079 everything apotherapy. From bee stings, to propolis, 00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:09.659 to a lot of this other stuff, and I'm all for 00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:12.000 experimenting on myself with all this, and I 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.579 do. and I'll tell you what I had a bad burn on 00:41:16.579 --> 00:41:18.639 my arm a couple of months ago just from hitting 00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:21.340 the side of the oven you know because I'm really 00:41:21.340 --> 00:41:26.059 good at that kind of stuff and and oddly it just 00:41:26.059 --> 00:41:29.059 wasn't healing it just was was deep and kind 00:41:29.059 --> 00:41:33.679 of bad and after a few days I'm like I'm just 00:41:33.679 --> 00:41:37.179 gonna put some of our good raw honey right on 00:41:37.179 --> 00:41:40.909 this and I was thinking maybe i should do propolis 00:41:40.909 --> 00:41:42.929 i don't happen to have any around here i'm going 00:41:42.929 --> 00:41:45.309 to just throw honey right on it put a big band 00:41:45.309 --> 00:41:48.150 -aid over it so it's not getting everything sticky 00:41:48.150 --> 00:41:53.929 yeah two days later unbelievable recovery this 00:41:53.929 --> 00:41:57.650 whole thing had closed off and was almost completely 00:41:57.650 --> 00:42:01.010 healed and this is not us legally not giving 00:42:01.010 --> 00:42:04.550 any medical advice of course these are our experiences 00:42:04.550 --> 00:42:06.869 we're not telling you no these are our personal 00:42:06.869 --> 00:42:10.650 experiences but it's amazing and and i do do 00:42:10.650 --> 00:42:13.769 some bee stings for some things too and love 00:42:13.769 --> 00:42:19.010 it and um i would encourage people to to if you 00:42:19.010 --> 00:42:21.690 feel like experimenting with some of that beekeepers 00:42:21.690 --> 00:42:24.489 out there go for it everything in the hive is 00:42:24.489 --> 00:42:28.110 good for you except maybe small hive beetles 00:42:28.110 --> 00:42:31.880 but that's not from the bees I haven't heard 00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:34.059 of any tincture for that yet. Hey, we're running 00:42:34.059 --> 00:42:38.000 out of time. Kevin, I have to give you a chance 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:41.099 to tell us one of your favorite wild and crazy 00:42:41.099 --> 00:42:43.260 beekeeping stories. Have you thought of anything? 00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:47.760 Well, fascinating, the kind of a highlight of 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:51.300 my beekeeping career was, so we go to Molokai 00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:54.519 as well. It's a beautiful small island, a couple 00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:57.639 islands north of us. And Novoroamite's there. 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.440 No, exactly. There's no beekeeping industry. 00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:03.559 It's very small, like home backyard type stuff, 00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:06.039 as well as a massive amount of feral colonies. 00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:09.019 There was, and a lot of, you know, because of 00:43:09.019 --> 00:43:11.079 that, you're going to get a lot of extractions 00:43:11.079 --> 00:43:14.179 from structures and what have you. And so we 00:43:14.179 --> 00:43:16.320 were called, we were asked, and this is, you 00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.320 know, we normally don't do this, but they asked 00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:22.280 us to help them remove a colony from a church, 00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:25.679 a small wooden church that was built by St. Damien. 00:43:28.029 --> 00:43:30.309 Exactly. Well, the church was not there. The 00:43:30.309 --> 00:43:32.630 church was up on the top side, they call it. 00:43:32.929 --> 00:43:34.710 But he had built the church there. But yeah, 00:43:34.829 --> 00:43:39.150 he'd ministered to the lepers in, or sorry, the 00:43:39.150 --> 00:43:43.630 afflicted in Kalapapa. And he had come up and 00:43:43.630 --> 00:43:46.750 he built this wooden church in like the 1800s. 00:43:46.869 --> 00:43:49.070 It was a double wall construction. So the bees 00:43:49.070 --> 00:43:52.829 had built a colony in there and we worked with 00:43:52.829 --> 00:43:57.030 some carpenters who removed the wood and and 00:43:57.030 --> 00:44:00.489 we extracted the colony from there and re you 00:44:00.489 --> 00:44:05.210 know put it into boxes and and relocated it and 00:44:05.210 --> 00:44:07.989 then sealed it up and that was amazing that was 00:44:07.989 --> 00:44:10.750 like an ethereal experience with the bees and 00:44:10.750 --> 00:44:13.329 in the church with the history of this ancient 00:44:13.329 --> 00:44:16.530 structure yeah that was that was just fascinating 00:44:16.530 --> 00:44:19.530 and then otherwise kind of more of a funny story 00:44:19.530 --> 00:44:24.280 I I still am afraid of getting stung Right, honeybees? 00:44:25.219 --> 00:44:27.400 It's like, I think, I don't know if it's just 00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:31.400 me, but it's still, it hurts a lot. You know, 00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:33.400 it's like a burn. It's like a hot needle and 00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:35.719 it radiates for me. So it's like, I don't know 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:38.199 if I'm just working it up. So anytime I do get 00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:40.719 stung, I, you know, kind of, I don't cry like 00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:44.199 a little baby, but I quickly move away. But you 00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:50.079 scream like a little girl. Yes. So it's yeah, 00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.739 I do not like getting stung between the pain 00:44:52.739 --> 00:44:56.139 and then also the loss of you know, the B hits 00:44:56.139 --> 00:44:59.480 Yeah, it's all only cuz the loss of the B. Hey, 00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:03.460 you're human and And this is built into our DNA 00:45:03.460 --> 00:45:06.900 and that's why the first time that you do a sting 00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:10.639 on purpose to treat something I've never done 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:13.260 that. It must be a different experience. I'm 00:45:13.260 --> 00:45:16.309 gonna come to your place and show you how It's 00:45:16.309 --> 00:45:19.650 a different experience. It is so hard to do the 00:45:19.650 --> 00:45:22.650 first time because everything in your DNA is 00:45:22.650 --> 00:45:25.969 saying no, no, no, no, no, no. And you have to 00:45:25.969 --> 00:45:30.590 overcome that. It's crazy hard. It gets easier, 00:45:31.329 --> 00:45:35.019 but it's really hard the first time. to do a 00:45:35.019 --> 00:45:37.820 self inflicted. Hey, Kevin, we could talk for 00:45:37.820 --> 00:45:40.619 hours. I'm going to put your website down in 00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:42.860 the show notes in case people want to find you 00:45:42.860 --> 00:45:46.139 or reach out to you or order anything from you, 00:45:46.260 --> 00:45:48.679 which I would highly encourage the area that 00:45:48.679 --> 00:45:50.579 your bees are in. I've been down to that area. 00:45:51.139 --> 00:45:54.539 It's absolutely beautiful. It is so green. It's 00:45:54.539 --> 00:45:57.599 kind of what you picture of Hawaii. It's just 00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:00.420 green. It's not like this green desert behind 00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:04.480 me, which Has no bees by the way because who 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:07.420 knows what all chemicals they use out there But 00:46:07.420 --> 00:46:10.400 I'm gonna give you the last word just one last 00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:13.360 piece of advice or why you just love beekeeping 00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:16.659 I love beekeeping because you never know what 00:46:16.659 --> 00:46:18.840 you're gonna get each seasons different each 00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:21.760 harvest is different and also have faith in the 00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:24.840 miraculous You know the honeybees they have been 00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:27.460 here for tens of millions of years They're gonna 00:46:27.460 --> 00:46:31.119 work it through this this little blip on there 00:46:31.070 --> 00:46:34.030 genetic radar, the quicker that we come together 00:46:34.030 --> 00:46:37.989 as a community to overcome this, you know, kind 00:46:37.989 --> 00:46:39.909 of self -inflicted wound because we're creating 00:46:39.909 --> 00:46:43.670 the problem that we can solve. And we can solve 00:46:43.670 --> 00:46:46.429 it through beekeeping and coming together and 00:46:46.429 --> 00:46:49.230 appreciating the natural flow and ebb and flow 00:46:49.230 --> 00:46:52.289 of nature and the beautiful world that we're 00:46:52.289 --> 00:46:55.869 so lucky to be part of. Beautiful. Mahalo, my 00:46:55.869 --> 00:47:02.059 friend. Thank you. Aloha. Thanks for joining 00:47:02.059 --> 00:47:05.119 us on Be Love Beekeeping presented by Man Lake. 00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:07.659 If you like this content I hope you'll share 00:47:07.659 --> 00:47:10.519 it with a friend, follow and subscribe to this 00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:13.880 podcast and even sign up for our newsletter at 00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:16.949 BeLoveBeekeeping .com Also, just a shout out 00:47:16.949 --> 00:47:19.510 to Vita B Health for their support, we appreciate 00:47:19.510 --> 00:47:22.530 them. Vita's Varroa control range of products 00:47:22.530 --> 00:47:26.750 includes Apistan, Apigard, and now Veroxen, extended 00:47:26.750 --> 00:47:30.690 release oxalic acid strips. Thanks guys, and 00:47:30.690 --> 00:47:33.150 remember, if you're not just in it for the honey 00:47:33.150 --> 00:47:36.150 or the money, you're in it for the love. See 00:47:36.150 --> 00:47:36.889 you next week.