WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.660 in a world brimming with complexity few creatures 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:12.839 embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:17.699 precision she dances from bloom to bloom each 00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:22.399 motion guided by millennia upon millennia of 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:28.800 instinct each act in service to the whole and 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:34.560 then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:40.479 of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist, 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.460 part poet, they move along their hives with the 00:00:45.460 --> 00:00:50.560 efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:54.219 the bee's needs as best they can comprehend, 00:00:54.859 --> 00:00:59.679 and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:05.599 Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:12.140 like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:22.680 journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:25.079 presented by our good friends over at Man Lake. 00:01:25.579 --> 00:01:28.340 You know, keeping Varroa in check is important 00:01:28.340 --> 00:01:31.599 all year round, but especially in the fall as 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:34.379 we prepare our bees for winter. So what's your 00:01:34.379 --> 00:01:37.519 plan? Do you know what your mite loads are? If 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:40.500 they're high, what will you do and when? Can 00:01:40.500 --> 00:01:44.280 you even spell IPM? I don't claim to have all 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:47.340 the answers. In fact, nobody has all the answers. 00:01:47.700 --> 00:01:49.920 But today we're going to have a discussion with 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:52.920 Amber Leach from Veto Pharma about their newest 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:55.769 treatment option. first a few fun beekeeping 00:01:55.769 --> 00:01:59.950 stories told in the beekeeper's own words. I 00:01:59.950 --> 00:02:01.989 didn't think it was funny but somebody watching 00:02:01.989 --> 00:02:05.629 would have laughed their off. It's a cautionary 00:02:05.629 --> 00:02:08.710 tale about keeping the ground around your apiary 00:02:08.710 --> 00:02:12.229 and the path to and from the apiary clear of 00:02:12.229 --> 00:02:15.550 obstructions. I was carrying a full super from 00:02:15.550 --> 00:02:19.430 the apiary to be extracted. I had a tangled garden 00:02:19.430 --> 00:02:22.629 hose laying across the path. The scene is set. 00:02:22.729 --> 00:02:25.530 The predictable happened. I dropped the box, 00:02:25.810 --> 00:02:28.409 lurching and stumbling with the hose around my 00:02:28.409 --> 00:02:31.750 ankle. The frame spilled out. I landed in the 00:02:31.750 --> 00:02:34.750 pile of frames and got honey all over me and 00:02:34.750 --> 00:02:38.159 my bee suit. The good news was the bees didn't 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:41.240 automatically come after me they were more interested 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:44.680 in the honey and in just it seemed like a split 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:48.460 second I was covered with bees. Running away 00:02:48.460 --> 00:02:51.520 wasn't going to work. Fortunately the honey had 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.580 the bees preoccupied so I hobbled a few feet 00:02:54.580 --> 00:02:57.819 away took off the bee jacket which was covered 00:02:57.819 --> 00:03:01.000 with bees and left it and the bees hanging on 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:04.580 a tree branch. My honey smeared bee -covered 00:03:04.580 --> 00:03:07.039 pants were a different problem not so easily 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:10.360 solved. I couldn't take them off outside. My 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:13.560 wife thought it was hilarious while she was hosing 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:17.039 me off. Alright next story. My friend came to 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:19.599 visit. He was afraid of bees but wanted to see 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:22.840 my hives. At the time I would do my inspections 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:26.360 in shorts and a t -shirt. I gave him my beekeeper 00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:29.979 hat and veil and he watched from about 30 feet 00:03:29.979 --> 00:03:33.439 away while I opened the hive and took out a frame. 00:03:33.939 --> 00:03:36.960 Of course the bees completely ignored me and 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:40.460 flew all the way over and stung him. This is 00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:44.939 just further evidence that bees sense fear. I 00:03:44.939 --> 00:03:47.479 had one more, but it involved someone throwing 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:49.860 up before they could get their veil unzipped 00:03:49.860 --> 00:03:57.000 and off. Let's just leave it at that. Hey, I'd 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:58.960 like to welcome our very special guest today, 00:03:59.219 --> 00:04:02.280 Amber Leach, coming to us from the Denver area. 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:05.520 Good morning, Amber. Good morning. How are you? 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:09.060 I'm great. How are you today? Fantastic. We don't 00:04:09.060 --> 00:04:11.939 have snow yet so I can't complain. Well we don't 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:15.020 have snow yet so I can complain because I love 00:04:15.020 --> 00:04:18.019 the snow. You're just on the other side of the 00:04:18.019 --> 00:04:20.680 mountains from me. Yeah we love the snow as long 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:22.699 as we're prepared with firewood and we're not. 00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:26.139 I'm not quite there yet either. So and we do 00:04:26.139 --> 00:04:28.120 a lot of our heating that way I love it. That's 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:30.980 how we do too. Yeah so are you up in the mountains 00:04:30.980 --> 00:04:34.439 or down in the Denver metro area? So we're south 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:37.779 of Denver about an hour in Monument. So we're 00:04:37.779 --> 00:04:40.540 about 7 ,500 feet. So we get snow a lot of times 00:04:40.540 --> 00:04:44.180 before the rest of the front range does. You 00:04:44.180 --> 00:04:47.300 are high up there. Now, have you been a beekeeper 00:04:47.300 --> 00:04:50.939 for a long time? About 11 years. About the same 00:04:50.939 --> 00:04:53.839 as I have, but I'm sure you know 10 times more 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:57.480 than I do because you happen to work for Vito 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:00.019 Pharma. Would you just tell us what your position 00:05:00.019 --> 00:05:04.220 is there and a very brief what the products are 00:05:04.220 --> 00:05:06.810 that you guys sell? Sure, I'm North American 00:05:06.810 --> 00:05:08.850 sales manager. So when I came on board, I was 00:05:08.850 --> 00:05:14.050 responsible for both the US and Canada. And about 00:05:14.050 --> 00:05:17.689 a year ago, I handed Canada off to some other 00:05:17.689 --> 00:05:20.370 folks that were one more fluent in French. And 00:05:20.370 --> 00:05:22.850 it was much easier for them to get in and out 00:05:22.850 --> 00:05:25.790 of those places that I couldn't get to. A lot 00:05:25.790 --> 00:05:28.269 of times there were conflicts with shows and 00:05:28.269 --> 00:05:30.740 conventions. We wanna make sure that we're. able 00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:32.519 to get as many places as possible. So now I'm 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:35.839 just responsible for sales and management in 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:38.899 the U .S. But you speak a little French because 00:05:38.899 --> 00:05:41.920 your company is based in France. Zero French, 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:44.060 but I'm working on my Spanish. We have a really 00:05:44.060 --> 00:05:46.139 multicultural team, which makes it really, it 00:05:46.139 --> 00:05:49.379 makes it interesting for meetings, a lot of different 00:05:49.379 --> 00:05:51.519 accents and a lot of different backgrounds. So 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:53.480 everybody brings their expertise to the table. 00:05:53.779 --> 00:05:56.939 And so I know a few words in many different languages, 00:05:57.180 --> 00:06:00.860 thanks to my colleagues, but fluent in none of 00:06:00.860 --> 00:06:03.759 those probably much to everyone chagrin i i english 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:07.279 is you know my first and only real language truthfully 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:09.759 and you sound like you're from the south somewhere 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:13.079 i am i was born and raised in west virginia and 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:15.819 i raised my kids in kentucky and we've only lived 00:06:15.819 --> 00:06:18.480 in colorado really for about five years yeah 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.540 there's no colorado accent going on there hey 00:06:21.540 --> 00:06:26.060 tell us about uh veto you guys are the anti -viroa 00:06:26.060 --> 00:06:29.300 team What are your products for helping us fight 00:06:29.300 --> 00:06:32.540 Varroa? So Vito Pharma has been around now for 00:06:32.540 --> 00:06:36.319 about 44 or 45 years and their singular focus 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:39.819 has always been really apiculture and the proliferation 00:06:39.819 --> 00:06:43.879 of the healthy honeybee population. And the strong 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:47.180 focus is at this point, that may change in the 00:06:47.180 --> 00:06:49.259 future, but our strong focus at this point is 00:06:49.259 --> 00:06:54.569 really Varroa mite management. from testing to 00:06:54.569 --> 00:06:57.370 treatment. And we have a whole host of products 00:06:57.370 --> 00:06:59.850 that are currently available and that are coming 00:06:59.850 --> 00:07:02.970 down the pipeline to make that happen. One of 00:07:02.970 --> 00:07:05.370 the things that we talk about a ton on this show 00:07:05.370 --> 00:07:08.769 is testing. Test, test, test to know where you're 00:07:08.769 --> 00:07:13.910 at. We are very agnostic as far as treatment. 00:07:14.269 --> 00:07:17.589 We have some guests come on that are completely 00:07:17.589 --> 00:07:20.170 treatment -free beekeepers. We have some that 00:07:20.170 --> 00:07:23.569 are the opposite. We have some in between. And 00:07:23.569 --> 00:07:26.569 our belief is to educate everybody and then let 00:07:26.569 --> 00:07:28.930 them make their own decisions. So that's what 00:07:28.930 --> 00:07:31.430 we're doing here. We're not doing an infomercial 00:07:31.430 --> 00:07:35.269 for Veto, but really to just... Tell people I 00:07:35.269 --> 00:07:37.589 mean everybody knows how big of a problem Veroa 00:07:37.589 --> 00:07:40.949 is let's talk about another one of the solutions 00:07:40.949 --> 00:07:44.290 But before we talk about that I want to talk 00:07:44.290 --> 00:07:48.370 about Your Veroa easy check because I have to 00:07:48.370 --> 00:07:53.029 admit I haven't used it yet. I Have the old -fashioned 00:07:53.029 --> 00:07:57.629 court jar with the hardware cloth on top. Tell 00:07:57.629 --> 00:08:00.629 me how the easy check works So the easy check 00:08:00.629 --> 00:08:04.500 works similarly to a mason jar with hardware 00:08:04.500 --> 00:08:06.600 wire, which is how I started when I was testing 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:09.899 my bees in the beginning. But you fill the container 00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:12.620 up with the correct amount of bees, approximately 00:08:12.620 --> 00:08:15.519 300 bees is what the measurements are. And there 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:18.139 are some lines in the lid that let you know that 00:08:18.139 --> 00:08:21.079 you've put enough bees in there. It'll work three 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:23.439 different ways, really, with an alcohol wash, 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:26.800 which we would acknowledge that's industry standard. 00:08:26.860 --> 00:08:29.540 And really our personal preference, just because 00:08:29.540 --> 00:08:32.230 we don't have anything more scientific than that 00:08:32.230 --> 00:08:34.909 even though it's not super, super reliable in 00:08:34.909 --> 00:08:38.009 terms of science. It is the most reliable thing 00:08:38.009 --> 00:08:40.070 that we have on the market across the board. 00:08:40.730 --> 00:08:43.350 You can also do a sugar roll or a sugar shake. 00:08:43.669 --> 00:08:46.730 And then we also have marketed a CO2 injector 00:08:46.730 --> 00:08:50.269 which allows you to use CO2 to just kind of anesthetize 00:08:50.269 --> 00:08:53.490 the bees and the mites fall off after that and 00:08:53.490 --> 00:08:56.610 then the bees theoretically rejuvenate and you 00:08:56.610 --> 00:08:58.070 can put them back in the house. There's three 00:08:58.070 --> 00:08:59.649 different ways that you can use it. Alcohol, 00:09:00.470 --> 00:09:04.129 Sugar and co2 and we we love when folks test 00:09:04.129 --> 00:09:07.250 both before and after treatment So they can get 00:09:07.250 --> 00:09:11.590 first a baseline and then after treatment Measurements 00:09:11.590 --> 00:09:14.190 know. Okay. Did this my treatment work for me? 00:09:14.549 --> 00:09:16.070 Is this the right time of year to use the mic 00:09:16.070 --> 00:09:18.190 treatment and all the other variables that come 00:09:18.190 --> 00:09:19.730 into play when you know whether or not you're 00:09:19.730 --> 00:09:21.389 going to choose that same mic treatment next 00:09:21.389 --> 00:09:23.669 year at the same time or a different time let's 00:09:23.669 --> 00:09:27.639 get into that part of the topic because I believe 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:29.799 one of the problems that a lot of beekeepers 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:32.639 have is finding something that works for them 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:37.120 and then using it every year, year in and year 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.940 out. What is wrong with that scenario? We're 00:09:39.940 --> 00:09:42.779 creatures of habit. So it's always a tough conversation, 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:45.580 especially with hard -headed folks. And I think 00:09:45.580 --> 00:09:48.580 that pretty much applies to all beekeepers. I 00:09:48.580 --> 00:09:50.620 think we all have a tendency to be a little hard 00:09:50.620 --> 00:09:53.240 -headed and myself included. So I'm not pointing 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:55.179 the finger outward. I'm pointing it back at myself 00:09:55.179 --> 00:09:58.009 too. So just like with antibiotic resistance, 00:09:58.289 --> 00:10:01.090 some of the things that contribute to resistance 00:10:01.090 --> 00:10:05.350 are virtue of how the bacteria and the antibiotics 00:10:05.350 --> 00:10:07.870 work. But there's so much of that that is human 00:10:07.870 --> 00:10:11.330 contribution. And I say that because my background 00:10:11.330 --> 00:10:14.210 is in human medicine, human pharmaceuticals. 00:10:14.210 --> 00:10:16.690 So it's really, really kind of shaped how I think 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:19.730 about an IPM. So the human contribution piece 00:10:19.730 --> 00:10:23.029 is you use a product when it's not needed. So 00:10:23.029 --> 00:10:26.889 kind of overkill, if you will, or using a product 00:10:26.889 --> 00:10:30.169 too long, or not using the product long enough, 00:10:30.230 --> 00:10:33.289 not using the product correctly. So there are 00:10:33.289 --> 00:10:36.570 a whole host of things that can just make the 00:10:36.570 --> 00:10:39.830 train come off the tracks. And all of those contribute 00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:42.669 overall to your mites developing a resistance 00:10:42.669 --> 00:10:46.149 to a particular miticide. So we really, I tease 00:10:46.149 --> 00:10:48.889 whenever I'm at shows and I'm talking to beekeepers. 00:10:48.970 --> 00:10:51.909 I hope that folks betray me to every other miticide 00:10:51.909 --> 00:10:54.389 that's on the market. Because I work at Veto 00:10:54.389 --> 00:10:58.230 Pharma and I get these products for free. So 00:10:58.230 --> 00:11:00.649 in theory, I would never have to pay for a mite 00:11:00.649 --> 00:11:03.590 treatment if I didn't value an IPM. And Veto 00:11:03.590 --> 00:11:06.250 Pharma really values the IPM. We know that there's 00:11:06.250 --> 00:11:09.639 room for almost every product that's on the market 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:14.019 at the table. And when that happens, which is 00:11:14.019 --> 00:11:16.480 usually kind of a fantasy world for most of us, 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:21.259 I've never seen consistently folks doing what 00:11:21.259 --> 00:11:23.860 theory says that you should do repeatedly. I've 00:11:23.860 --> 00:11:25.600 never seen folks doing that, whether it's on 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:29.460 the commercial side or hobbyists. And never might 00:11:29.460 --> 00:11:31.899 be a strong word, they're a handful. I wish that 00:11:31.899 --> 00:11:34.840 that would be the takeaway from this whole discussion, 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:37.700 no matter what products folks are using. in their 00:11:37.700 --> 00:11:40.899 hives. If you're testing before and after, then 00:11:40.899 --> 00:11:43.200 it makes your choices as to what you're using 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:45.480 a whole lot simpler. Yeah, if you don't know 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:51.379 that it's working. Right. And I've had some beekeepers 00:11:51.379 --> 00:11:55.419 in my area come to me and say, hey, I tested 00:11:55.419 --> 00:11:58.899 my mite load is really low. We're going into 00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:01.860 fall. What should I treat with now? And I say, 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:06.799 don't. If you don't have mites. White treat. 00:12:07.379 --> 00:12:10.200 So that's another reason that we need to be doing 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:13.000 our testing. I don't claim to be any kind of 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.059 an expert on all of these chemicals. Tell me 00:12:16.059 --> 00:12:18.740 a little bit about Ametraz that's in your Apivar 00:12:18.740 --> 00:12:22.860 product, right? Correct. So Ametraz is a synthetic 00:12:22.860 --> 00:12:25.240 active ingredient. It's been an industry standard 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:28.840 really for about 10 years. We launched Apivar 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.879 about 10, 11 years ago now. And it's been an 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:34.980 industry standard, but a lot of folks can also 00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:42.149 get it. from Mexico and other places in a two 00:12:42.149 --> 00:12:44.210 liter or one liter concentrated bottle and then 00:12:44.210 --> 00:12:47.649 they apply it in a different way. And a lot of 00:12:47.649 --> 00:12:49.429 times that's out of necessity. A lot of times 00:12:49.429 --> 00:12:53.690 it's cost containment. A lot of times it's a 00:12:53.690 --> 00:12:57.629 whole host of different reasons that it would 00:12:57.629 --> 00:13:00.330 take a whole other podcast to cover that. But 00:13:00.330 --> 00:13:02.629 amitraz is just an active ingredient that is 00:13:02.629 --> 00:13:06.009 known industry -wide to be kind of the cornerstone 00:13:06.009 --> 00:13:10.350 for mite treatment. Right. Now as we've all heard 00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:13.230 about and we've talked about a lot here about 00:13:13.230 --> 00:13:16.990 the bee die -off this winter, the winter of 2025, 00:13:17.169 --> 00:13:20.230 and how bad it was here in North America with 00:13:20.230 --> 00:13:24.669 over 1 .1 million colonies lost from commercial 00:13:24.669 --> 00:13:28.409 beekeepers, the researchers looking into it have 00:13:28.409 --> 00:13:32.279 determined one of the causes, and there's more 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:36.500 than just one, is amitras resistance. It almost 00:13:36.500 --> 00:13:39.059 sounds like amitras worked so well that everybody 00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:42.080 just started leaning on it too hard. Would you 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:45.340 say that's what happened? Where did this resistance 00:13:45.340 --> 00:13:49.820 all of a sudden come from? The same place that 00:13:49.820 --> 00:13:53.419 antibiotic resistance comes from. Misuse or overuse 00:13:53.419 --> 00:13:55.720 is one of the highest contributors. That's not 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:57.559 to take away from the fact that there are true 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:00.940 pockets of of resistance that have been found 00:14:00.940 --> 00:14:04.299 in Europe and in the U .S., but they're so few 00:14:04.299 --> 00:14:07.940 and far between that a blanket statement saying 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:11.299 that there's a resistance to amitras as a whole. 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.759 And when I say whole, I mean the beekeeping industry 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:18.799 altogether. I think that that's probably a grossness, 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:22.340 an overstatement. We are our own problems, really, 00:14:22.460 --> 00:14:24.960 at the end of the day. And you've come up with 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.750 an APE of R 2 .0. Tell me about that. So ApoVar 00:14:28.750 --> 00:14:32.649 2 .0 is different enough from original ApoVar 00:14:32.649 --> 00:14:36.409 that we will be phasing out original ApoVar eventually. 00:14:37.070 --> 00:14:39.389 And we're working towards that currently. So 00:14:39.389 --> 00:14:43.750 original ApoVar has 3 .3 % amatras and ApoVar 00:14:43.750 --> 00:14:47.750 2 .0 has only 3%. However, each strip still contains 00:14:47.750 --> 00:14:52.429 about 500 milligrams per strip. The strips are 00:14:52.429 --> 00:14:54.730 easily manipulated. You can fold them over the 00:14:54.730 --> 00:14:57.009 top of the frames because not everybody uses. 00:14:57.230 --> 00:15:00.370 Langstroth Hobbs, we know that. Original Apivar 00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:04.549 has just amitraz and then a plastic powder that's 00:15:04.549 --> 00:15:09.129 combined to make a contact miticide strip. And 00:15:09.129 --> 00:15:12.049 the new strip, the Apivar 2 .0 strips, have three 00:15:12.049 --> 00:15:14.769 inactive ingredients and the amitraz. So one 00:15:14.769 --> 00:15:17.490 of those is the plastic, one of those is a release 00:15:17.490 --> 00:15:20.500 enhancer so that releases properly the way that 00:15:20.500 --> 00:15:22.779 we have designed it to release. And then another 00:15:22.779 --> 00:15:25.120 one is a moisture scavenger that helps maintain 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:27.299 the stability of the ametraus strip while it's 00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:28.980 in the hive. And there's no withholding period. 00:15:29.059 --> 00:15:31.320 I guess that would probably be the biggest attraction 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.360 to most folks is that you don't have to wait 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.159 to put your honey supers back on. Let's talk 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:38.440 about the things that we need to be careful of 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:40.940 wherever you're getting your ametraus. As far 00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:43.960 as temperature, as far as honey supers, all these 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:46.909 things, what do we need to watch out for? So 00:15:46.909 --> 00:15:48.970 it needs to be stored in a cool dry place once 00:15:48.970 --> 00:15:52.870 you open it. It needs to be used within pretty 00:15:52.870 --> 00:15:56.049 short order. It's good for two years from the 00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:59.090 manufacturing date on the package. If you're 00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:01.470 a beekeeper like me, we're getting into that 00:16:01.470 --> 00:16:04.690 favorite time of year, honey harvest. But it 00:16:04.690 --> 00:16:07.370 can be a lot of work. That's where Man Lake comes 00:16:07.370 --> 00:16:09.870 in. They have everything you need to make the 00:16:09.870 --> 00:16:13.870 job easier, cleaner, and more efficient. Removal 00:16:13.870 --> 00:16:17.769 aids, refractometers, uncapping tools, extractors, 00:16:18.049 --> 00:16:21.070 tanks, wax melters, even the jars and labels. 00:16:21.370 --> 00:16:23.669 Plus they have free shipping on glass containers. 00:16:24.149 --> 00:16:26.950 Whether you're a hobbyist with two hives or a 00:16:26.950 --> 00:16:29.950 full -blown commercial operation, Man Lake has 00:16:29.950 --> 00:16:33.490 it all. And don't forget your discount code MLBlove10. 00:16:33.529 --> 00:16:36.629 It's in the show notes. For $10 off your first 00:16:36.629 --> 00:16:39.629 $100 purchase. Most of the things to look out 00:16:39.629 --> 00:16:43.559 for are storage and Application to make sure 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:45.940 that you're doing it correctly and it's it's 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:47.600 honestly I think one of the easiest products 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.139 to use for a new beekeeper So I don't think that 00:16:50.139 --> 00:16:52.240 there's a whole lot to it that you can mess up 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.440 unless you just Kind of go cowboy or go rogue 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.799 and decide not to follow the directions that 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.200 are on the label every I think it's really straightforward 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:02.580 I think it's really simple and a lot of times 00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:04.740 I think it might be one of the best things to 00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:06.720 suggest for a new beekeeper because it's hard 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:09.759 to mess it up speaking of new beekeepers, let's 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:13.059 say somebody is a buying a package of bees next 00:17:13.059 --> 00:17:16.460 spring. I think a lot of people assume when they 00:17:16.460 --> 00:17:19.779 get their bees, they're completely clean. There's 00:17:19.779 --> 00:17:22.240 going to be no mites. I'm starting from scratch 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.819 with no mites. There's no resistance. I don't 00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:27.019 have to worry about any of that kind of stuff. 00:17:27.619 --> 00:17:30.400 Is that the case or is that a false assumption? 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:33.380 I think like everything else in life, but I know 00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:35.319 I'm not trying to skirt your question, but I 00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:37.319 think it just depends. I think it's important 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:39.559 to know where your bees are coming from. If you, 00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:43.130 if you live, Out this direction. There's a really 00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:45.250 good chance that if you're buying packages or 00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:47.170 nukes that they're coming out of California They're 00:17:47.170 --> 00:17:49.769 coming straight from almonds and that just depends 00:17:49.769 --> 00:17:53.730 on On the beekeeper what they use how they how 00:17:53.730 --> 00:17:57.950 they use the product if you are In the middle 00:17:57.950 --> 00:18:00.970 of Kansas and you're getting bees locally probably 00:18:00.970 --> 00:18:04.029 you can count on on Knowing your beekeeper. You 00:18:04.029 --> 00:18:07.519 can know the source so Again, it just depends. 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:09.460 But those are all great questions to ask. Have 00:18:09.460 --> 00:18:11.000 they been treated? What have they been treated 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.319 with? Where are they coming from? Is it coming 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:15.440 from a commercial operation? Are these local 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:19.039 bees? So there are just a ton of questions and 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:20.559 the list just gets longer and longer. You know, 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:22.799 the longer you do this, the more you realize 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.400 I have way more questions than answers. So my 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.460 list of questions just continues to get longer 00:18:27.460 --> 00:18:30.319 and longer. That's perfect. The more questions, 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.599 the better. I guess the point I was trying to 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:36.839 get at, I have found. You can buy a package or 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.099 a nuke that's come from somewhere else or even 00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:43.819 locally to you that already has mites in it and 00:18:43.819 --> 00:18:47.920 So don't assume that these are clean that they 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:50.039 don't need to be treated or that they don't have 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.579 any resistance Or that you know, they don't have 00:18:52.579 --> 00:18:55.039 any other disease or some something like that 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:58.279 because they can hopefully they don't But they 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:02.769 often can Sure, in a lot of times, in a commercial 00:19:02.769 --> 00:19:04.849 operation, when the bees are ready to come from 00:19:04.849 --> 00:19:09.230 California to us in the form of packages and 00:19:09.230 --> 00:19:13.390 nukes, it's a whole process of just shaking bees 00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:16.789 into packages. So to assume anything about those 00:19:16.789 --> 00:19:18.309 bees, you don't assume that they're queen right. 00:19:18.410 --> 00:19:20.269 You don't assume that they've had enough to eat. 00:19:20.309 --> 00:19:22.349 You don't assume that they have no mites. You 00:19:22.349 --> 00:19:25.089 have to treat it just like you would any other 00:19:25.089 --> 00:19:28.279 beehive. And if you get a package and there's 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:30.759 only 10 ,000 bees in it, nobody wants to kill 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.079 300 bees immediately. And I don't necessarily 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:36.500 think that that should be everyone's approach 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:38.420 right out of the gate, especially if you are 00:19:38.420 --> 00:19:40.740 getting bees. Some places it's warmer than others 00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:42.859 and you can get your packages in February, March, 00:19:42.940 --> 00:19:46.579 April. Here sometimes we don't see package deliveries 00:19:46.579 --> 00:19:49.400 until June. And again, it'll just depend on your 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:51.500 geography. And one of the best pieces of advice 00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:55.039 that I can give. anybody who's a backyard beekeeper 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.859 or a hobbyist or even a sideliner, growing into 00:19:57.859 --> 00:20:01.799 a sideliner, is apprentice yourself to the key 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:04.839 opinion leaders in your area. Because I started 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:07.079 my beekeeping journey in the Midwest, in the 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.420 South, and when I came here it was like starting 00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:12.880 over. Beekeeping at 7 ,500 feet is not at all 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.079 like keeping bees at sea level. So it's important 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:21.930 to know that the word's always and never. don't 00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:25.690 usually apply to anything, but especially beekeeping. 00:20:26.430 --> 00:20:28.390 Absolutely. What kinds of things have you learned 00:20:28.390 --> 00:20:31.430 for those of us that haven't kept bees at 7 ,500 00:20:31.430 --> 00:20:34.410 feet? Still might be interesting to hear. Oh, 00:20:34.410 --> 00:20:37.529 gosh. Well, the year we moved here, it snowed 00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:40.769 two feet September the 8th. So this time, five 00:20:40.769 --> 00:20:42.849 years ago, we were getting pounded with snow. 00:20:43.049 --> 00:20:45.789 I had strips in my hives and I had just started 00:20:45.789 --> 00:20:49.089 my treatment because back in Kentucky, where 00:20:49.089 --> 00:20:51.650 we moved from, we could still be getting a fall 00:20:51.650 --> 00:20:55.990 harvest in September or October. So we knew that 00:20:55.990 --> 00:20:57.369 it was gonna be colder, we knew that it was gonna 00:20:57.369 --> 00:20:59.710 snow, but the day before that we were fishing 00:20:59.710 --> 00:21:02.829 in 80 degree weather. So it was a shock to us. 00:21:03.490 --> 00:21:06.250 So always be prepared to pivot, always try to 00:21:06.250 --> 00:21:10.509 get ahead of the curve. It's really easy as a 00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:12.009 beekeeper and I've done it, I've been guilty 00:21:12.009 --> 00:21:15.029 myself. Summer gets away from you, and unless 00:21:15.029 --> 00:21:16.470 you're a commercial beekeeper, and it can get 00:21:16.470 --> 00:21:19.859 away from them too, but. If you're just a hobbyist 00:21:19.859 --> 00:21:22.359 and you have kids and sports or you have weddings 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:24.940 or vacations planned, it's really easy for summer 00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:26.960 to get away from you. And I've learned that you 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:29.599 have to be much more diligent. I thought whenever 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:31.900 I started my beekeeping journey that journaling 00:21:31.900 --> 00:21:34.720 was silly, and I've learned that journaling is 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.460 not silly. I need to know exactly what's happening. 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.279 And if I have it at my fingertips, it's much 00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:43.359 easier to reference that. So I've learned to. 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:45.839 try to get ahead of the game faster and more 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:48.599 consistently and to document everything because 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.039 my memory isn't what I would like for it to be, 00:21:52.420 --> 00:21:55.319 unfortunately. I think we're all in that boat. 00:21:55.940 --> 00:21:58.059 Join the club. What kinds of things do you do 00:21:58.059 --> 00:22:02.500 to prepare your views for winter? It's almost 00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:06.259 completely centers around mic control. I know 00:22:06.259 --> 00:22:09.940 that It's really easy to get caught up in, especially 00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:12.420 if you're a hobbyist and you don't necessarily 00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:16.960 look at your beekeeping journey as a business 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:20.619 venture. And sometimes we see them as a hobbyist. 00:22:20.619 --> 00:22:23.859 A lot of times my beekeepers will see them as 00:22:23.859 --> 00:22:28.039 pets or the girls or the ladies. And the real 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:30.960 difference in a hobbyist and a commercial beekeeper 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.059 is that it's just business to a commercial beekeeper. 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:37.569 They don't have time to gingerly put the the 00:22:37.569 --> 00:22:40.250 honey supers back on and avoid crushing the bees. 00:22:40.390 --> 00:22:43.990 Sometimes the bees die. And hobbyists are more 00:22:43.990 --> 00:22:48.349 inclined to go slower and to avoid trying to 00:22:48.349 --> 00:22:51.190 kill the bees. Do you use any kind of insulation 00:22:51.190 --> 00:22:53.150 or anything like that on your hives? I know a 00:22:53.150 --> 00:22:55.950 lot of people do wrap their bees. I don't here 00:22:55.950 --> 00:22:59.109 in Colorado. I never did in the Midwest and in 00:22:59.109 --> 00:23:01.329 the South because our winters are really, really 00:23:01.329 --> 00:23:04.170 mild. And that's not to say that there's not 00:23:04.170 --> 00:23:08.410 need or room. Some of my Canadian friends, some 00:23:08.410 --> 00:23:10.950 of the folks up north in the Dakotas, those guys 00:23:10.950 --> 00:23:12.970 I know do rap sometimes. Sometimes they have 00:23:12.970 --> 00:23:16.089 their bees in an indoor facility, but bees have 00:23:16.089 --> 00:23:18.650 been in existence way before we decided to put 00:23:18.650 --> 00:23:21.869 them in a box and then in our backyard. They 00:23:21.869 --> 00:23:24.970 are quite capable of making it through the winter. 00:23:25.490 --> 00:23:27.509 They're quite capable of keeping themselves warm. 00:23:28.490 --> 00:23:31.470 They've been doing that well before we got involved. 00:23:31.869 --> 00:23:34.109 When you consider the human contributions to 00:23:34.109 --> 00:23:36.710 that, if you put them in a box and you're feeding 00:23:36.710 --> 00:23:40.650 them sugar water and it's freezing outside, that's 00:23:40.650 --> 00:23:42.950 not gonna work for your bees. Or if you put them 00:23:42.950 --> 00:23:44.829 in a box and then you take all of their honey 00:23:44.829 --> 00:23:46.890 and they're left with no food all winter and 00:23:46.890 --> 00:23:49.150 now they have no place to go, they are going 00:23:49.150 --> 00:23:51.710 to starve to death. So that's when weather really 00:23:51.710 --> 00:23:53.910 makes a difference, at least in my experience. 00:23:54.250 --> 00:23:56.890 But I sometimes will build a windbreak because 00:23:56.890 --> 00:23:59.539 it does get pretty windy here in Monument. But 00:23:59.539 --> 00:24:01.160 aside from that, I make sure that I don't take 00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:04.220 all other resources and I make sure that their 00:24:04.220 --> 00:24:07.079 mite loads are as close to nonexistent as I can 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:09.079 get because from the first snow, which could 00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:11.779 be September the 8th, to snow melt, which could 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:14.039 be June of the following year, that's a long 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.740 time to try to live on just a few frames of honey. 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:19.619 So I try to make sure they have at least a box 00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:21.099 and a half of honey going through the winter. 00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:24.940 All right. Let's have a little fun. You've been 00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:26.740 beekeeping long enough. You have to have some 00:24:26.740 --> 00:24:29.940 kind of a crazy or embarrassing or painful story 00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:32.140 that you can tell us about. Anything come to 00:24:32.140 --> 00:24:34.880 mind? I have one that probably covers all three 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:39.619 of them. I used to teach like a beekeeping 101 00:24:39.619 --> 00:24:42.519 at the local library back in Kentucky. And one 00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:44.960 of my students quickly became one of my friends. 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:49.599 She was quite adept and one time had asked me 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:51.619 if I would check on one of her hives while she 00:24:51.619 --> 00:24:54.220 was on vacation. I was glad to do it. I was glad 00:24:54.220 --> 00:24:58.740 to help. No matter what the books say, we don't 00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:00.819 always do that, right? We always tease that the 00:25:00.819 --> 00:25:02.619 bees didn't read the books. Well, sometimes even 00:25:02.619 --> 00:25:04.500 when the beekeeper reads the books, we don't 00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:06.900 follow the rules. And I was checking on one of 00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:09.980 her hives and I'd been in this hive with her 00:25:09.980 --> 00:25:17.059 previously. It was unexpectedly very hot. In 00:25:17.059 --> 00:25:19.579 just about a three week period, it had gone from 00:25:19.579 --> 00:25:23.839 just an easy hive to inspect to really hot. And 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.380 I hadn't zipped my veil up all the way, and one 00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:29.119 immediately got in my veil and stung me on this 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:32.059 really tender area under your chin. And I did 00:25:32.059 --> 00:25:33.740 exactly what you're not supposed to do, which 00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:38.480 is rip my veil off. And it was just a human reaction. 00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:42.559 I knew better. And within, I don't know, a minute, 00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:46.480 these bees were all over me. I mean. I've never 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.359 experienced anything like it. They were all over 00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.079 me. I probably had 10 or 15 bee stings all on 00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.200 my head and neck area. My son was just up on 00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:00.299 a little hill not too far away by the lake and 00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:02.500 there was nothing for me to do except head towards 00:26:02.500 --> 00:26:04.500 the car. But as I did, now I'm bringing all these 00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:08.380 angry bees with me to him. So I'm trying to yell 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:10.940 ahead, you know, get in the car. And at seven 00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:12.700 or eight years old, he was, I think he thought 00:26:12.700 --> 00:26:15.680 I was dying. So he was pretty scared and then 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.359 when I get to the car, I'm not allergic to bees, 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.559 one or two or three stings at a time that I know 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.019 of. But with 15 or 20 stings and my face was 00:26:26.019 --> 00:26:28.099 swelling quickly, like from here to my neck, 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.200 it looked like kind of a turkey, like I had no 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:33.500 neck. It was just swollen full of inflammation 00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:37.059 and the local hospital was 25 miles away. So 00:26:37.059 --> 00:26:38.700 I called a couple of girlfriends and I'm like, 00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:41.880 listen, if you don't hear from me in pretty short 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:44.220 order, you should probably. come looking for 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:46.480 me and they knew where I was. So they were, they 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.079 would have to like reverse engineer, um, the 00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:52.240 route to get to me, but I'm not going to lie. 00:26:52.339 --> 00:26:55.180 I was concerned. I was concerned. My son was 00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:57.279 concerned. I think my friends were concerned. 00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:59.380 It turns out to be that just, you know, some 00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:03.039 Benadryl and a good rest helped, but I didn't 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:05.619 look like myself for at least a week. I looked 00:27:05.619 --> 00:27:09.640 pretty deformed. It was my fault. I knew better. 00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:11.740 You know, it wasn't my first year. We always 00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:14.880 claim it's our fault. Can't be the bee's fault. 00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:19.039 Even though they were hot that day. Anyway, that 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.339 sounds scary. You don't have a picture of yourself 00:27:21.339 --> 00:27:24.380 all swollen up, do you? I don't. I didn't take 00:27:24.380 --> 00:27:27.380 one. No, but by the time I got to the car and 00:27:27.380 --> 00:27:30.299 got my veil off, my hair was just completely... 00:27:30.299 --> 00:27:31.700 I looked like I'd just gotten out of the shower. 00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.259 It was... I was a sweaty mess. Okay, I thought 00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:36.940 you were gonna say you ran and jumped in the 00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:40.859 lake. No, but, you know, if I had been thinking 00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:43.450 at all, I might have. Isn't it funny the things 00:27:43.450 --> 00:27:46.230 that we do when we panic? It was yeah, it was 00:27:46.230 --> 00:27:48.609 it was sheer panic We had somebody on the show 00:27:48.609 --> 00:27:51.250 a while back that when he was a new beekeeper 00:27:51.250 --> 00:27:54.509 Had something sort of like that happen where 00:27:54.509 --> 00:27:57.609 one bee got inside his veil and that's never 00:27:57.609 --> 00:27:59.789 happened to you That's a whole new experience 00:27:59.789 --> 00:28:02.789 when you actually see the back of the bee instead 00:28:02.789 --> 00:28:06.369 of the underside of the bee Yeah, and and usually 00:28:06.369 --> 00:28:08.250 they're not coming for you. They actually want 00:28:08.250 --> 00:28:13.130 to get out of the veil. But anyway This guy freaked 00:28:13.130 --> 00:28:15.089 out a little bit differently than you, though. 00:28:15.109 --> 00:28:18.710 He started hitting at it like this until he finally 00:28:18.710 --> 00:28:22.430 gave himself a bloody nose and a fat lip and 00:28:22.430 --> 00:28:26.430 did more damage than the bee would have. But 00:28:26.430 --> 00:28:28.849 anyway, glad you're okay. Yeah, that's a little 00:28:28.849 --> 00:28:32.410 terrifying. Yeah, I made it out unscathed minus 00:28:32.410 --> 00:28:35.549 the 15 or 20 bee stings. But that's a lot of 00:28:35.549 --> 00:28:37.970 bee stings at once. A lot of bee stings. Yeah, 00:28:37.970 --> 00:28:40.359 I'm still not allergic. Knock on wood. All right, 00:28:40.420 --> 00:28:42.839 before I let you go, I'm just curious. I know 00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:46.940 you work with all kinds of beekeepers. As far 00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:50.579 as working with commercial beekeepers, is there 00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:52.559 anything that you've learned from them that you 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.619 might want to share with hobbyists and sideliners? 00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:58.019 One of the things I think commercial beekeepers 00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:02.680 are so much better at than we are is that they 00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:08.890 see it as just business. the finances of it to 00:29:08.890 --> 00:29:11.150 how they take care of the bees so they don't 00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:13.690 coddle the bees. I'm not saying that we need 00:29:13.690 --> 00:29:16.569 to be abusive to the bees and none of my beekeepers 00:29:16.569 --> 00:29:20.349 are that I've ever met. But to say I don't want 00:29:20.349 --> 00:29:22.869 to kill 300 of my bees to do an alcohol wash 00:29:22.869 --> 00:29:25.710 because that just seems brutal. Having a hive 00:29:25.710 --> 00:29:29.410 die through the winter is much more brutal and 00:29:29.410 --> 00:29:31.190 it's heartbreaking if you only have one hive 00:29:31.190 --> 00:29:33.990 or you only have two hives or no matter how many 00:29:33.990 --> 00:29:36.839 hives you have really but If you wake up in spring 00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:39.900 and you have no halves left because of your own 00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:41.559 negligence, and that's really what it is. If 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.200 you're not testing before and after and if you're 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.160 not treating, if you, and I know some folks that 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.640 do treatment free very successfully, but that's 00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:53.500 not what I would advise for a first or second 00:29:53.500 --> 00:29:55.339 or third year beekeeper. That's something that's 00:29:55.339 --> 00:29:58.539 well into what I think is a journey where you've 00:29:58.539 --> 00:30:01.359 gained enough knowledge to manage that. And you 00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:03.980 have a much different lifestyle than a commercial 00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:06.329 beekeeper. To answer your question, I think that 00:30:06.329 --> 00:30:09.130 we have to look at it as a business because it 00:30:09.130 --> 00:30:11.769 is an investment. If you have one hive going 00:30:11.769 --> 00:30:15.130 into the winter, you might have $750, $800, $900 00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:19.109 invested in this hive. So 300 bees dying in a 00:30:19.109 --> 00:30:21.710 mite wash. Well, it sounds harsh and it sounds 00:30:21.710 --> 00:30:25.390 brutal. It's much more cost conducive to approach 00:30:25.390 --> 00:30:27.809 beekeeping that way than to buy a new package 00:30:27.809 --> 00:30:31.170 in the spring. So if commercial beekeepers could 00:30:31.170 --> 00:30:34.089 teach us anything is that it has to be just business 00:30:34.089 --> 00:30:36.769 because you take the emotional piece out of it 00:30:36.769 --> 00:30:39.670 and then you, I think you're much more successful 00:30:39.670 --> 00:30:43.670 if you're not so concerned about the here and 00:30:43.670 --> 00:30:45.950 now. You have to be thinking three and four and 00:30:45.950 --> 00:30:48.170 six months ahead and that's how you approach 00:30:48.170 --> 00:30:50.470 your treatment and your testing. I think commercial 00:30:50.470 --> 00:30:53.490 beekeepers are so much better at that than we 00:30:53.490 --> 00:30:56.250 are as hobbyists. I like to try to get inside 00:30:56.250 --> 00:30:59.059 the mind of the bees too. and think what would 00:30:59.059 --> 00:31:01.500 they do if they truly understood the situation. 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:05.000 I think they would send 300 bees out and jump 00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:08.779 in your tester because that's what they do, right? 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:10.960 They have guard bees that are willing to risk 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:15.359 their life to protect the hive and during the 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.259 busy time of the year you may have a thousand 00:31:18.259 --> 00:31:22.319 bees emerge in one day anyway. 300 isn't that 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:24.839 many when you look at it that way. Yeah, if a 00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:28.519 queen can light 1 ,000, 1 ,500 bees in a day, 00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:33.019 the 300 really is impacting her production. It's 00:31:33.019 --> 00:31:37.019 not at all. And at the shows where I am, not 00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:38.599 the commercial shows, but the ones where I'm 00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:41.960 talking to hobbyists and backyard beekeepers, 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:45.740 that's the thing that I get all the time. Or 00:31:45.740 --> 00:31:47.579 they'll treat before, excuse me, they'll test 00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:50.779 before, or they'll test after, but they won't 00:31:50.779 --> 00:31:53.579 test both. I'll give you an example because I 00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:55.920 think this is really important. I had a beekeeper, 00:31:56.500 --> 00:31:58.519 a very, very knowledgeable, very experienced 00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:01.240 beekeeper message me not long ago. And they had 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:03.819 some hives that their counts were really high, 00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:09.380 40s, 50s, 60s. And at that point, it's a ticking 00:32:09.380 --> 00:32:12.700 time bomb. But they use Apivar. And they tested 00:32:12.700 --> 00:32:15.180 for efficacy midway through the treatment period 00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:18.000 and found that their might loads were still really 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.960 high, 10, 12, 20. To put it in real world terms, 00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:24.539 you have asked a product to work in a situation 00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:28.700 that was unthinkable. Ape of R is an Ape of R 00:32:28.700 --> 00:32:32.740 2 .0, even though it works faster. You get the 00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:35.680 maximum result at about week three. So it's a 00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:37.519 little bit faster than Ape of R, original Ape 00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:42.980 of R, but. If you have a beehive that has miteloads 00:32:42.980 --> 00:32:46.039 that are that high, a slow release product, which 00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:50.480 is what Apivar was intended to be, that's not 00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.839 your best option because you have a hive that's 00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:58.279 ready to implode already. So he was very frustrated 00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:00.559 that Apivar didn't work the way that he said, 00:33:00.819 --> 00:33:02.460 the way that we have said that it would work 00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:05.460 and so on and so forth. But my message to him 00:33:05.460 --> 00:33:08.519 was it did work. It worked really, really well. 00:33:08.619 --> 00:33:10.440 It just didn't work in a way that's going to 00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:11.839 get your beehive through the winter. Because 00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.319 if you go from 40 or 50 mites down to 10 or 12 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.259 mites in a four week period, the product's working. 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:20.019 But you can't test in the middle of it to see 00:33:20.019 --> 00:33:23.759 what the efficacy is because a long release treatment 00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:27.500 requires all of that time to do the work that 00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:30.400 it was designed to do. So if you don't test before 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.779 and you experience a product or what you think 00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:36.720 is a product failure, is it really a product 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.420 failure? Or was your mite load so high that no 00:33:41.420 --> 00:33:44.240 product would have worked? And a lot of beekeepers, 00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:46.559 because they don't want to kill their bees, they'll 00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:48.140 say, well, we know we have mites, so we're just 00:33:48.140 --> 00:33:50.440 going to treat anyway. And I get that. I do. 00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:52.619 And to be honest, that was how I approached my 00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:55.339 first year or two in beekeeping. I don't want 00:33:55.339 --> 00:33:57.440 to kill my bees. I know that I need to treat. 00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:59.700 I know that I have mites. I'm just going to use 00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:02.960 something. And the first year, I started with 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:05.839 three halves. I used Apigard. Two of my hives 00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:08.539 died. I hated Apogard. I thought Apogard was 00:34:08.539 --> 00:34:10.519 the worst product in the world. Fast forward 00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.800 three or four more years. I love Apogard. Apogard 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:16.179 is part of my IPM. I've just learned that I was 00:34:16.179 --> 00:34:19.099 the problem, not the product, not the bees, but 00:34:19.099 --> 00:34:21.340 that I didn't test it properly. I didn't treat 00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:24.000 correctly. And at all, all fingers point back 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.539 to me. When a first or second third year beekeeper 00:34:26.539 --> 00:34:28.760 tell me, you know, my hives died. It's hard to 00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.400 say this, but it's almost always unequivocally 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:34.400 the beekeeper's fault. It was my fault. It was 00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:36.480 the fault of a lot of my colleagues who started 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:40.340 in a very similar fashion that I did. So for 00:34:40.340 --> 00:34:44.860 something to be the fault of a product or other 00:34:44.860 --> 00:34:48.619 circumstances outside the hive is much less likely 00:34:48.619 --> 00:34:52.579 than it is a beekeeper problem, truthfully. And 00:34:52.579 --> 00:34:54.400 that's hard to say. It's hard to hear. That's 00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:56.440 one of the things that I've learned from speaking 00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:59.940 with commercial beekeepers is they don't wait 00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:03.059 until fall to treat. They're testing clear back 00:35:03.059 --> 00:35:06.760 in July and they're and they're treating in July 00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:10.519 if they need to and August and September. So 00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:14.300 that come October or November, you know, whenever 00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:16.800 they're buttoning up for winter, the mites aren't 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:19.980 a problem. They're not trying to go from a 40 00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:24.570 to a six. you know, overnight, which is just, 00:35:24.590 --> 00:35:26.730 as you're talking about, isn't reasonable for 00:35:26.730 --> 00:35:29.849 any kind of treatment. Right. So start early. 00:35:30.329 --> 00:35:32.769 Hey, I'm as guilty of this stuff as anybody. 00:35:33.190 --> 00:35:36.409 We all are. Start early. Start early and consistent. 00:35:36.510 --> 00:35:38.590 I have some folks that are testing five and six 00:35:38.590 --> 00:35:41.650 times a year. That's, you know, thousands of 00:35:41.650 --> 00:35:43.630 bees at the end of the day. It's better than 00:35:43.630 --> 00:35:46.289 hundreds of thousands of bees, which is what's 00:35:46.289 --> 00:35:49.690 going to happen if you don't test. Absolutely. 00:35:49.969 --> 00:35:52.250 Thanks for all your wisdom, Amber. I've really 00:35:52.250 --> 00:35:55.010 enjoyed it. If anybody wants to reach out to 00:35:55.010 --> 00:35:58.650 you, I'll put a link to Veto Pharma in the show 00:35:58.650 --> 00:36:02.610 notes. And hey, keep in touch. Thank you. Thank 00:36:02.610 --> 00:36:04.550 you. And if anybody has questions, please provide 00:36:04.550 --> 00:36:07.289 my email address. They're welcome to reach out. 00:36:07.550 --> 00:36:09.610 Will do. All right, Amber, take care. Thanks, 00:36:09.690 --> 00:36:15.230 you too. Thanks for joining us on Be Love Beekeeping 00:36:15.230 --> 00:36:18.530 presented by Man Lake. If you like this content 00:36:18.530 --> 00:36:20.989 I hope you'll share it with a friend, follow 00:36:20.989 --> 00:36:24.329 and subscribe to this podcast, and even sign 00:36:24.329 --> 00:36:27.010 up for our newsletter at BeLoveBeekeeping .com 00:36:27.190 --> 00:36:29.989 Also, just a shout out to Vita B Health for their 00:36:29.989 --> 00:36:33.389 support, we appreciate them. Vita's Varroa Control 00:36:33.389 --> 00:36:36.369 range of products includes Apistan, Apigard, 00:36:36.829 --> 00:36:40.190 and now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic Acid 00:36:40.190 --> 00:36:43.670 Strips. Thanks guys, and remember, if you're 00:36:43.670 --> 00:36:46.349 not just in it for the honey or the money, you're 00:36:46.349 --> 00:36:48.650 in it for the love. See you next week.