WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.660 in a world brimming with complexity few creatures 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:12.839 embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:17.699 precision she dances from bloom to bloom each 00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:22.399 motion guided by millennia upon millennia of 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:28.800 instinct each act in service to the whole and 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:34.560 then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:40.479 of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist, 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.460 part poet, they move along their hives with the 00:00:45.460 --> 00:00:50.560 efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:54.219 the bee's needs as best they can comprehend, 00:00:54.859 --> 00:00:59.700 and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the 00:00:59.700 --> 00:01:05.599 Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:12.120 like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:22.980 journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love, Be Keep 00:01:22.980 --> 00:01:26.069 being presented by Man Lake. we're going over 00:01:26.069 --> 00:01:29.030 to Europe again today to discuss a whole new 00:01:29.030 --> 00:01:32.370 kind of beehive design that creators claim can 00:01:32.370 --> 00:01:36.430 cut your winter colony losses down to five percent 00:01:36.430 --> 00:01:41.150 and double your honey yield. And our guest's 00:01:41.150 --> 00:01:43.930 wild and crazy beekeeping story is one for the 00:01:43.930 --> 00:01:47.329 ages. But first in beekeeping related news, a 00:01:47.329 --> 00:01:50.250 really sad story out of Ireland. Board -winning 00:01:50.250 --> 00:01:53.920 longtime beekeeper Kathleen Devine dies after 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:57.140 suffering multiple stings. This was just earlier 00:01:57.140 --> 00:01:59.939 this week and details are still a little sketchy. 00:02:00.299 --> 00:02:03.959 One report has her being stung only twice. Another 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:06.920 says it may have been up to 20 times. Either 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:09.460 way, how does someone who's been beekeeping for 00:02:09.460 --> 00:02:13.759 decades suddenly die from a few stings? Well, 00:02:13.819 --> 00:02:17.000 here's what we do know. Kathleen was in her early 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.560 70s and had recently taken a step back from beekeeping 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:24.569 because she had quote, suffered some reactions 00:02:24.569 --> 00:02:28.050 from stings. Early Monday evening she went to 00:02:28.050 --> 00:02:31.050 help another beekeeper with his hives and that's 00:02:31.050 --> 00:02:34.409 when it all happened. She received stings, had 00:02:34.409 --> 00:02:37.449 a reaction, and was transferred by air ambulance 00:02:37.449 --> 00:02:41.370 to a hospital where she passed away. A post mortem 00:02:41.370 --> 00:02:44.479 examination will be carried out. I guess it's 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.460 just a really sobering reminder that even though 00:02:47.460 --> 00:02:49.680 you haven't been allergic to bee stings in the 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.699 past, you can develop an allergy in the future. 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:56.840 If you have reactions, especially new ones, don't 00:02:56.840 --> 00:02:59.539 take them lightly. Seek proper medical advice. 00:03:00.139 --> 00:03:02.560 These situations are rare but they do happen 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:05.719 so be careful out there and consider having an 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:09.219 EpiPen on hand just in case. Mrs. Devine and 00:03:09.219 --> 00:03:12.580 her husband Des were hobby beekeepers. well loved 00:03:12.580 --> 00:03:15.560 by the local beekeeping community. They had won 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:19.060 numerous prizes for their honey at various agricultural 00:03:19.060 --> 00:03:23.180 shows country -wide. Sympathies and prayers for 00:03:23.180 --> 00:03:26.340 her and her family at this time. On a more upbeat 00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:29.860 note, British and Danish researchers have just 00:03:29.860 --> 00:03:32.979 engineered a super food to protect honey bees 00:03:32.979 --> 00:03:35.960 from growing threats. Their results are published 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:38.419 in the weekly science and technology journal 00:03:38.419 --> 00:03:42.030 Nature. The work we did here represents a major 00:03:42.030 --> 00:03:44.930 technology breakthrough for the beekeeping industry 00:03:44.930 --> 00:03:49.090 and for food security and global pollination," 00:03:49.090 --> 00:03:52.189 noted University of Oxford researcher Professor 00:03:52.189 --> 00:03:55.909 Geraldine Wright. The scientists first identified 00:03:55.909 --> 00:03:59.050 the key compounds in pollen that benefit bees 00:03:59.050 --> 00:04:03.680 which involve six plant sterols. They then genetically 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:07.520 engineered a strain of yeast to produce a precise 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:10.639 mixture of these ingredients in a sustainable 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:14.419 and affordable way. The colonies fed the superfood 00:04:14.419 --> 00:04:17.399 thrived and boosted reproduction when compared 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.220 to the control group. There's a lot of scientific 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:22.800 details. If you're interested, we'll post a link 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:26.480 to the study in the show notes. Okay, let's get 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:29.040 to our interview. By the way, if you like awesome 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:32.079 Italian accents, you're going to love what's 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:38.600 coming up. Hey, I'd like to welcome to the show 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:41.220 today super special guest all the way coming 00:04:41.220 --> 00:04:44.300 to us from Italy, Alex Scamberoni. How are you 00:04:44.300 --> 00:04:47.990 doing today? I'm fine, I'm really very happy. 00:04:48.110 --> 00:04:52.750 I will harvest my last honey flow next Friday 00:04:52.750 --> 00:04:55.970 with the Primal Beehive in the mountains. So 00:04:55.970 --> 00:04:58.670 far so good. And we're going to be talking about 00:04:58.670 --> 00:05:01.290 Primal Beehive. That's one thing that I love 00:05:01.290 --> 00:05:04.730 doing on this show is finding out about new products 00:05:04.730 --> 00:05:08.709 and new ways to do things before we jump into 00:05:08.709 --> 00:05:11.079 that. I want to get into a little bit of your 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:14.540 history. Tell me what got you into beekeeping 00:05:14.540 --> 00:05:17.199 and when, and then we'll kind of go from there. 00:05:17.699 --> 00:05:20.540 Yeah, actually, it's pretty easy. In my home 00:05:20.540 --> 00:05:26.600 village, we have two long, very long standing 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:30.180 traditions, centuries old tradition. One is the 00:05:30.180 --> 00:05:33.839 silkworms. No one is working with silkworms in 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.639 my area anymore. But beekeeping, oh, that's for 00:05:37.639 --> 00:05:41.939 sure. So since I was in elementary school, my 00:05:41.939 --> 00:05:46.620 mother would use it to buy honey from local beekeepers. 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:51.040 And I always loved the smell of the beeswax of 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:54.579 the honey. We mainly have two blossoms here, 00:05:54.939 --> 00:05:57.699 two main nectar flow. One is the acacia and the 00:05:57.699 --> 00:06:00.480 other one is the sweet chestnut, which is my 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:04.990 preferred honey. So yeah. Years ago when I had 00:06:04.990 --> 00:06:09.569 finally time free time because I closed my machine 00:06:09.569 --> 00:06:12.490 tools company and I started to keep bees just 00:06:12.490 --> 00:06:16.970 for fun It was love at first sight. It was also 00:06:16.970 --> 00:06:20.470 a dream come true because Really where every 00:06:20.470 --> 00:06:24.050 time I I was making breakfast with the milk and 00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:28.269 honey from my local beekeepers I was always thinking 00:06:28.269 --> 00:06:31.689 I should have my own bees. So as soon as I was 00:06:31.689 --> 00:06:37.000 able but it was 2006, so almost 20 years ago, 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:40.879 I started keeping bees by my own. So before we 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:43.259 started recording, you were telling me about 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:46.540 this sweet chestnut honey. Describe the flavor. 00:06:46.660 --> 00:06:49.699 What's it like? When it's really, really harvested 00:06:49.699 --> 00:06:53.920 at the right moment, it's really dense, dark. 00:06:54.459 --> 00:06:58.980 It's not black, but it's pretty brown, dark brown, 00:06:58.980 --> 00:07:04.279 and it has kind of two sensations the first one 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:08.939 when you start testing it mainly is the sweet 00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:13.180 part of the chestnut that comes to you but then 00:07:13.180 --> 00:07:18.160 when it goes down into the throat it became I'll 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:23.339 just say you said before spicy spicy and it's 00:07:23.339 --> 00:07:26.160 a kind of a second experience after a few seconds 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.939 that that was I really like the most and yeah 00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:33.220 it's a It's everywhere here because from the 00:07:33.220 --> 00:07:36.279 hill behind my village up to the mountains in 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:40.139 Switzerland, this part of the Alps, the valley 00:07:40.139 --> 00:07:44.399 that goes from the Lago Maggiore up to the main 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.139 ridge of the Alps, it's full of sweet chestnut 00:07:48.139 --> 00:07:51.139 forest. So it's something that we really like 00:07:51.139 --> 00:07:54.019 a lot in the area, both on the Italian and on 00:07:54.019 --> 00:07:57.000 the Switzerland side. Here in the U .S. there's 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.930 a thing called hot honey now. It's a spicy honey, 00:08:01.250 --> 00:08:04.269 but people are doing it by infusing things like 00:08:04.269 --> 00:08:07.430 jalapeno peppers in their honey. And it's really 00:08:07.430 --> 00:08:10.350 good, but I think it's a lot more fun when it 00:08:10.350 --> 00:08:13.069 just comes directly from the bees with whatever 00:08:13.069 --> 00:08:16.430 flavor it is. There's just something very special 00:08:16.430 --> 00:08:19.050 about that. What other kinds of things do they 00:08:19.050 --> 00:08:22.889 forage on in your area? The very first blossom 00:08:22.889 --> 00:08:28.250 is the wild cherry, following with apricots. 00:08:28.589 --> 00:08:32.490 And then we also have another English word for 00:08:32.490 --> 00:08:36.690 dandelion. Dandelion. Dandelion. And then we 00:08:36.690 --> 00:08:41.690 have acacia, on which we usually harvest honey. 00:08:42.549 --> 00:08:46.769 After acacia, we have wild flowers, different 00:08:46.769 --> 00:08:49.710 kind. And then it depends from the season. It 00:08:49.710 --> 00:08:55.990 could be late June, beginning of July, we have 00:08:55.990 --> 00:09:01.440 the sweet chestnut. Here, at the end of the Alps 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:04.460 and the foothill, it's almost the last blossom 00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:08.019 that we have. Then we move up in the mountains, 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.960 our colonies, to have a second wave of sweet 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:16.759 chestnut and wild flowers until beginning of 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:20.080 September, more or less. That's mainly what happened 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.559 during the blossoming season. We go to the mountains 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:26.480 because it's a time machine, it's a dramatic 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.090 operation. So we go back in time to harvest more, 00:09:30.350 --> 00:09:32.970 at least to forage, to have the bee foraging 00:09:32.970 --> 00:09:37.549 on natural flowers and not feeding syrup so early 00:09:37.549 --> 00:09:40.710 in the season. Now climate -wise, how cold is 00:09:40.710 --> 00:09:42.629 it where you are? What are the winters like? 00:09:43.570 --> 00:09:48.409 It depends, but on average, we have winters that 00:09:48.409 --> 00:09:53.830 can be as cold as minus seven, minus 10 Celsius. 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:58.519 that is about 14 degrees fahrenheit and then 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:04.559 we have a hot summer that can be as hot as 36 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:09.500 celsius which is kind of i think close to 90 00:10:09.500 --> 00:10:14.000 or 100 fahrenheit very humid okay and so that's 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:16.519 a huge range did you find that you had a lot 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:19.870 of winter die -off At the beginning, yes, and 00:10:19.870 --> 00:10:23.169 the problem was related to the dissipation of 00:10:23.169 --> 00:10:27.570 the hive. Nowadays, still, people using the dandt 00:10:27.570 --> 00:10:31.230 langstroth hives, they are used to feed not less 00:10:31.230 --> 00:10:36.629 than 26, even more, sometimes even 50 liters 00:10:36.629 --> 00:10:40.490 of syrup to overwinter colonies. And this comes 00:10:40.490 --> 00:10:44.149 with other problems like nosema disease because 00:10:44.149 --> 00:10:48.970 of those very liquid syrups. Since the first 00:10:48.970 --> 00:10:52.190 industrial prototype that we built, Giammario 00:10:52.190 --> 00:10:57.169 and I with Primal B, we went down to less than 00:10:57.169 --> 00:11:02.049 10 liters of CO2 over winter colony. And we also 00:11:02.049 --> 00:11:06.470 reduced the winter losses at the same time. In 00:11:06.470 --> 00:11:12.409 the actual version of the Primal B hive and the 00:11:12.409 --> 00:11:15.830 test that we did last winter, we went down to 00:11:15.830 --> 00:11:20.179 no more than 4 liters of syrup and less than 00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:24.340 10 % of colony losses. Actually, last winter 00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:31.080 we lost less than 5%. But on average, I'm comfortable 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:36.139 to say that we can work with less than 10 % colony 00:11:36.139 --> 00:11:39.080 losses during the winter time. So I live in an 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:43.720 area where the common losses is at least 50 % 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:46.759 per year. It's just, it's very, very, it's very, 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:49.200 very cold here in the winter and a lot of snow. 00:11:49.659 --> 00:11:52.840 And if your bees are weak, you know, from Varroa 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:54.860 or whatever, or don't have enough food, they 00:11:54.860 --> 00:11:58.559 just, they just don't survive period. Now you 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:02.419 were telling me previously that your first three 00:12:02.419 --> 00:12:06.259 years or so in beekeeping, you had a lot of losses. 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:12.460 100%. Yeah. 100 % is a lot. And that was what 00:12:12.460 --> 00:12:16.519 led you and your partner into thinking there's 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:19.240 got to be a better way. Tell me that story. How 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:22.500 did that all come about? Yeah, actually, again, 00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:27.440 I had a wife and three small kids and I was not 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:30.100 able to enjoy my family because of my previous 00:12:30.100 --> 00:12:34.139 job. I founded and owned a machine tools company 00:12:34.139 --> 00:12:37.120 with my brother and we were working. too much, 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:40.200 too many hours, even all weekends. So when I 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:42.700 decided with my brother to quit the company, 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:47.460 to have a better lifetime, and I started to keep 00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:51.539 busy, I told Gianmario and he said, okay, let's 00:12:51.539 --> 00:12:54.919 do it together so we can spend more time together 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.840 because Gianmario and I, we met at high school 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:02.179 and I mean, you cannot choose your brothers, 00:13:02.220 --> 00:13:05.299 but if I could, it would have been John Mario. 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.299 So we were always looking for each other to spend 00:13:09.299 --> 00:13:12.460 time in the mountains, climbing ice falls, ski 00:13:12.460 --> 00:13:15.279 touring, whatever it could be in the mountains. 00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:20.740 And bees in our area, they really were the first 00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:24.700 excuse to meet each other more often and to be 00:13:24.700 --> 00:13:28.299 outside in the outdoors. So we started together. 00:13:28.940 --> 00:13:32.379 But At the very beginning, as you said, for three 00:13:32.379 --> 00:13:36.820 years in a row, we lost everything. We were buying 00:13:36.820 --> 00:13:40.720 B package, not B package, nucleus at the beginning 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:44.519 of spring. And we tried to harvest honey. We 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:47.860 were not able to harvest even one drop of honey. 00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:52.419 And then by November, more or less, in the best 00:13:52.419 --> 00:13:57.519 case, it could have been January, all of our 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:02.080 colony died. So we were really close to give 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:08.460 up and then it was the fourth year and a friend 00:14:08.460 --> 00:14:13.639 of mine called me, the guy Herman from German 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.519 origin, he is a professional tree climber and 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:23.419 he was cutting down a huge cedar tree in a beautiful 00:14:23.419 --> 00:14:28.460 centuries old villa. in the park of this villa 00:14:28.460 --> 00:14:30.980 and he called me because he's allergic and he 00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:33.320 said, look, there is a swarm of bees here. I 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:36.860 cannot do my job. People are paying me to do 00:14:36.860 --> 00:14:41.059 this job I cannot do. So just run, come here, 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:44.740 grab the swarm and let me work. And when I arrived, 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:47.440 that was not a swarm. That was a huge colony 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.600 inside this incredible, huge hollow tree. I'm 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:53.529 talking about a tree that was two meter maybe 00:14:53.529 --> 00:14:58.450 more at the bottom and up to 12 more or less 00:14:58.450 --> 00:15:02.809 12 meters high there was this hole in the in 00:15:02.809 --> 00:15:06.730 the hole tree and literally a black pipe of bees 00:15:06.730 --> 00:15:11.830 coming in and out pretty angry because chainsaw 00:15:11.830 --> 00:15:15.629 is not something they like they like so I was 00:15:15.629 --> 00:15:18.889 I was a fool actually because when I saw that 00:15:18.889 --> 00:15:22.250 thing I was thinking probably this is a I don't 00:15:22.250 --> 00:15:27.909 know, kind of a better strain of a queen. So 00:15:27.909 --> 00:15:32.230 with Hermann, he literally opened a one -meter 00:15:32.230 --> 00:15:35.990 door with the chain so that we were pushing the 00:15:35.990 --> 00:15:38.950 chain into the hollow tree until we saw honey 00:15:38.950 --> 00:15:42.429 coming in, not chips. And also I called Gianmario. 00:15:42.429 --> 00:15:46.610 Gianmario was giving a lecture at the university, 00:15:46.710 --> 00:15:49.519 and I remember him telling to the classroom. 00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:53.179 Okay, guys, the lesson is over. I have more important 00:15:53.179 --> 00:15:56.639 stuff to do. And one hour later, he was showing 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.779 up in the place where Herman and I were trying 00:15:59.779 --> 00:16:03.379 to understand what was going on inside the tree. 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:05.960 If you're a beekeeper like me, we're getting 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.080 into that favorite time of year, honey harvest. 00:16:09.419 --> 00:16:11.980 But it can be a lot of work. That's where Man 00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:14.460 Lake comes in. They have everything you need 00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:17.940 to make the job easier, cleaner, and more efficient. 00:16:18.190 --> 00:16:21.909 Removal aids, refractometers, uncapping tools, 00:16:22.429 --> 00:16:25.529 extractors, tanks, wax melters, even the jars 00:16:25.529 --> 00:16:28.190 and labels. Plus they have free shipping on glass 00:16:28.190 --> 00:16:30.889 containers. Whether you're a hobbyist with two 00:16:30.889 --> 00:16:33.909 hives or a full -blown commercial operation, 00:16:34.570 --> 00:16:36.850 Man Lake has it all. And don't forget your discount 00:16:36.850 --> 00:16:40.629 code MLBlove10. It's in the show notes. For $10 00:16:40.629 --> 00:16:45.330 off your first $100 purchase. So we tried to 00:16:45.330 --> 00:16:49.700 move a colony that was with combs that were more 00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:55.360 than one meter high and there was four or six 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:59.440 those huge combs and and we were trying to move 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:03.179 this colony into the dam which is pretty much 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:06.240 the same of a Langstroth wooden hive and now 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:11.460 when I look back of this event I cannot believe 00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:14.440 how full I was because even in terms of volume 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:17.779 that doesn't fit that it was not possible. we 00:17:17.779 --> 00:17:20.839 killed that colony actually and that was very 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:24.539 very sad. Gianmario didn't sleep he went back 00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:28.160 to his lab and the day after he woke me up telling 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:31.559 me we need to change the box because what we 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:35.819 really what he really did was to redesign everything 00:17:35.819 --> 00:17:40.259 in a three -dimensional software where he can 00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:45.640 assign mechanical and thermal property to every 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.240 component that he designed. He designed the holotree, 00:17:48.460 --> 00:17:51.160 the combs and the bees in a way that he could 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:55.799 apply mathematical simulation, mainly Navier 00:17:55.799 --> 00:18:00.519 -Stroke's equation to understand what was going 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.259 on inside, starting from the idea that they need 00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:09.619 to keep energy in a better way in order to have 00:18:09.619 --> 00:18:13.480 those huge combs that we saw. the following morning 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:18.440 when he woke me up he told me look in your email 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.880 so I look at the email and I saw this drawing 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:24.960 that he built with the mathematical simulation 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.180 and the drawing was showing me a different shape 00:18:28.180 --> 00:18:31.779 mainly a different shape of a comb compared to 00:18:31.779 --> 00:18:35.720 the dead ant we were working with the same day 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:39.619 we started prototyping something that was kind 00:18:39.619 --> 00:18:43.789 of simulation of the hollow tree And from that 00:18:43.789 --> 00:18:47.210 moment on, we built many, many different kinds 00:18:47.210 --> 00:18:51.750 of prototypes, even from concrete. And you can 00:18:51.750 --> 00:18:57.789 imagine an empty hive made of concrete, 80 kilo 00:18:57.789 --> 00:19:01.690 of a prototype. And we were trying to move those 00:19:01.690 --> 00:19:05.269 empty hives waiting, just the hardware was waiting 00:19:05.269 --> 00:19:09.210 80 kilo. And then we put bees inside and swarm 00:19:09.210 --> 00:19:13.380 and testing. we started really seeing differences 00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:19.240 in the colony behavior. So we improved our prototype 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:24.259 and then as he was and he still was last year 00:19:24.259 --> 00:19:27.220 a professor at university in Lugano, we were 00:19:27.220 --> 00:19:31.720 allowed to apply mainly from what is the Swiss 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:35.990 startup ecosystem. We realized after me visiting 00:19:35.990 --> 00:19:39.430 the U .S. relatives and traveling and asking 00:19:39.430 --> 00:19:42.589 to meet beekeepers in the U .S., we realized 00:19:42.589 --> 00:19:45.569 that we may have a business opportunity or something 00:19:45.569 --> 00:19:48.789 that eventually could be good for the beekeeping 00:19:48.789 --> 00:19:54.029 community worldwide. But we like the money, so 00:19:54.029 --> 00:19:57.349 we applied for competition, kind of the shark 00:19:57.349 --> 00:20:03.019 tanks that you have in the U .S. pretty much 00:20:03.019 --> 00:20:06.640 everything that we could win in the ecosystem 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.779 in Switzerland. And with that money, we built 00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:13.500 better prototypes and we traveled extensively, 00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:17.940 I may say, for three weeks from Southern California 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.900 to Vancouver Island and from Baltimore to Atlanta 00:20:20.900 --> 00:20:26.019 in three weeks, meeting every beekeeper that 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:30.019 was willing to meet us, hobbyists, sideliners, 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:33.359 commercials. Everybody that was willing to meet 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.819 us, we were willing to spend our time and sharing 00:20:36.819 --> 00:20:39.539 our experience and learning along the way. So 00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:42.640 when we came back, we decided to build something 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:46.799 better from the previous prototype. And we made 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:50.900 the mistake to think that that could be the product 00:20:50.900 --> 00:20:53.980 to put on the market. And we really under evaluated 00:20:53.980 --> 00:20:57.500 the amount of time, the amount of effort and 00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:00.529 the amount of money that we needed. to enter 00:21:00.529 --> 00:21:03.509 a market and then the pandemic hit and with the 00:21:03.509 --> 00:21:07.849 pandemic we were in where I live I live less 00:21:07.849 --> 00:21:13.289 than one hour from the very hot spot first hot 00:21:13.289 --> 00:21:17.509 spot of the pandemic in Europe because I am between 00:21:17.509 --> 00:21:20.250 Milano and Lugano between Italy and Switzerland 00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:24.569 and the first hot spot was a small village just 00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:28.049 south was from Milano so we were stuck in our 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:32.779 houses no not allowed even to go outside in our 00:21:32.779 --> 00:21:37.859 street we decided to do something and to redesign 00:21:37.859 --> 00:21:40.819 everything from scratch this time knowing what 00:21:40.819 --> 00:21:44.720 the performance could be but also scaling down 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.700 the manufacturing cost. Because before the pandemic, 00:21:48.140 --> 00:21:51.779 when we realized that we can really deliver something 00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:55.180 better for the colony, we traveled also to test 00:21:55.180 --> 00:21:58.380 our solution. So we delivered some of the previous 00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:02.960 version in the very hot Negev desert in Israel, 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:06.779 but also we over winter colony in Alaska, few 00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:11.089 hours. westward from Anchorage on the Kinaipan 00:22:11.089 --> 00:22:15.609 Isola. And when we were able to talk again, to 00:22:15.609 --> 00:22:18.569 travel again and meeting potential suppliers 00:22:18.569 --> 00:22:24.670 in US and in Europe, we knew that we could deliver 00:22:24.670 --> 00:22:29.750 a good hive, a primal bee hive at a fair retail 00:22:29.750 --> 00:22:34.769 price and all the related activity that we needed 00:22:34.769 --> 00:22:36.980 to do. I just want to catch up and make sure 00:22:36.980 --> 00:22:40.039 we're on the same page here. So we've got a couple 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:44.500 of brothers living in Italy in Switzerland and 00:22:44.500 --> 00:22:48.180 the winter is killing off your bees and then 00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:53.420 you come across this giant hive in a hollow tree 00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:57.690 end up cutting it apart and realize None of the 00:22:57.690 --> 00:23:00.650 beehives being made right now are good old buddy 00:23:00.650 --> 00:23:04.130 Langstroth. It doesn't fit what bees actually 00:23:04.130 --> 00:23:07.990 do inside a hollow tree. So that's what we're 00:23:07.990 --> 00:23:10.490 going to do. And we're going to figure out how 00:23:10.490 --> 00:23:13.410 to do it. So so a couple of you guys, are you 00:23:13.410 --> 00:23:16.380 both engineers or just? Your brother. Gianmario 00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:21.420 is an engineer. I am by college. I am a mechanic, 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:25.559 a mechanical technician. I was used to design 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:29.440 machine tools, huge CNC machine tools. So our 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:31.859 background is both mechanical, but I was more 00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:34.440 on the manufacturing side and Gianmario was more 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.500 on the theoretical and simulation side of the 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:40.140 mechanical stuff. So you guys know how to design 00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:42.789 and build things. And you came up with what sounds 00:23:42.789 --> 00:23:45.450 like a good design. At what point did you say, 00:23:46.170 --> 00:23:49.210 hey, this thing weighs way, way, way, way too 00:23:49.210 --> 00:23:51.930 much to be practical. We're going to shift to 00:23:51.930 --> 00:23:55.089 polystyrene. What made you think that's the material 00:23:55.089 --> 00:23:59.170 you wanted to use? Actually, it's a bit different. 00:24:00.009 --> 00:24:03.230 First, thanks to John Mario's simulation and 00:24:03.230 --> 00:24:07.529 then to the first prototype that we did, we realized 00:24:07.529 --> 00:24:12.640 that we have a good explanation. about the whole 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:16.640 system. So the colony, the bees, the hardware 00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:20.039 where you keep the bees, the hive and the outside 00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:22.880 temperature, the outside environment, which means 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.920 mainly temperature and seasonality. From that 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:31.940 good explanation, we then decided to build something 00:24:31.940 --> 00:24:35.940 and we can build with different materials. But 00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:40.890 when we went down to manufacturing cost, I grade, 00:24:41.250 --> 00:24:45.150 high density, food grade EPS. It's a technology 00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:50.730 that is mature, I may say, and can be used at 00:24:50.730 --> 00:24:54.950 scale. So when we were thinking about the U .S. 00:24:55.150 --> 00:24:58.309 market and the huge number that bees are in the 00:24:58.309 --> 00:25:00.490 U .S. market and in North America, generally 00:25:00.490 --> 00:25:04.430 speaking, we realized that we really need something 00:25:04.430 --> 00:25:08.309 that can be used at scale. And so we started 00:25:08.309 --> 00:25:11.400 the partnering up with one of the best companies 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:16.440 in Europe. They are now our first supplier and 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:20.140 they manage that technology very well. They manage 00:25:20.140 --> 00:25:22.680 the technology so well that they are now helping 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:27.160 us to move the manufacturing into the U .S. And 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.880 this is not only because of the wonderful tariff 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:35.619 that we love so much. Yeah, but also because 00:25:35.619 --> 00:25:39.250 even before that, we are paying transportation 00:25:39.250 --> 00:25:41.049 costs because now we are shipping containers 00:25:41.049 --> 00:25:43.769 from Europe to the US and this is killing us 00:25:43.769 --> 00:25:47.130 in terms of cost and time to deliver. So the 00:25:47.130 --> 00:25:50.309 idea to move the manufacturing process in the 00:25:50.309 --> 00:25:54.589 US was born more than one year ago when we closed 00:25:54.589 --> 00:25:58.410 our seed round and then we waited to have the 00:25:58.410 --> 00:26:02.500 first good and not good feedback from the early 00:26:02.500 --> 00:26:06.539 adopters in the US, not only hobbyist, but also 00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:09.539 commercial guy, because there are a few features 00:26:09.539 --> 00:26:12.240 that we really need to change in order to allow 00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:15.500 those people to work with Primal B and to take 00:26:15.500 --> 00:26:20.240 advantage of the results. So now we are planning 00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.880 to have manufacturing up and running by the end 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:26.059 of the year in the US. Hopefully, we will be 00:26:26.059 --> 00:26:29.720 able to deliver from the US in February. On the 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.640 video version of this podcast, I'm going to insert 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.200 some pictures of what this actually looks like 00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.880 for those that are just listening to the audio. 00:26:38.140 --> 00:26:42.019 I want you to describe what does your hive actually 00:26:42.019 --> 00:26:44.299 look like because it doesn't look like a regular 00:26:44.299 --> 00:26:47.819 Langstroth hive or even a top bar hive. Yeah 00:26:47.819 --> 00:26:51.740 okay in the primal bee hive we changed the nest 00:26:51.740 --> 00:26:53.900 and the nest only this is the first things that 00:26:53.900 --> 00:26:56.500 people need to know there's no need to change 00:26:56.500 --> 00:26:59.480 extraction equipment for our vesting honey because 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:03.460 we can put supers above the nest as usual and 00:27:03.460 --> 00:27:08.160 in our supers the beekeeper can still use the 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.480 deep or the medium langstroth frames that he's 00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:15.259 already working with. But the nest itself is 00:27:15.259 --> 00:27:19.400 a different shape because the shape of the nest 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:24.490 really, really matters. in terms of thermal efficiency. 00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:27.710 It's much more the shape than the insulation. 00:27:28.470 --> 00:27:32.329 You can insulate a lag strut or a double dip 00:27:32.329 --> 00:27:36.029 as much as you want, as much as you can, but 00:27:36.029 --> 00:27:39.130 you cannot go... even closer to the performance 00:27:39.130 --> 00:27:43.710 that we can achieve using LA Primal B Nest which 00:27:43.710 --> 00:27:47.529 is made by eight frames with the trapezoidal 00:27:47.529 --> 00:27:55.170 shape they are as high as 70 centimeters 700 00:27:55.170 --> 00:27:59.309 millimeters and you have this trapezoidal shape 00:27:59.309 --> 00:28:02.109 because especially at the spring at the end of 00:28:02.109 --> 00:28:06.809 the winter in the spring build up The upper part 00:28:06.809 --> 00:28:11.210 of our frames provide a larger surface for the 00:28:11.210 --> 00:28:16.009 colony to develop and a whole single surface 00:28:16.009 --> 00:28:20.230 from top to bottom. These allow the queen to 00:28:20.230 --> 00:28:25.150 lay eggs in a more efficient way. That means 00:28:25.150 --> 00:28:28.150 that with the same amount of energy, they can 00:28:28.150 --> 00:28:33.069 have larger surface of brood, which also means 00:28:33.069 --> 00:28:37.259 every cycle you have more bees that can go back 00:28:37.259 --> 00:28:41.180 into the system to perform when you have those 00:28:41.180 --> 00:28:45.220 eight frames one stuck by the other then you 00:28:45.220 --> 00:28:48.240 have something that is a little bit bigger than 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.720 a double deep and the external dimensions are 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.140 such that you can place four primer bee nests 00:28:56.140 --> 00:29:00.339 on a four -way palette so that the external dimension 00:29:00.339 --> 00:29:08.329 is four centimeters wide and 60 cm length. On 00:29:08.329 --> 00:29:13.349 top of this nest, we put a nest lid, what we 00:29:13.349 --> 00:29:17.289 call a nest lid, an empty super and a top lid 00:29:17.289 --> 00:29:23.849 for a total amount of more than 120 air value 00:29:23.849 --> 00:29:26.829 as a closure of the cross -section of the nest 00:29:26.829 --> 00:29:31.740 and this provides most of the efficiency that 00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:36.900 we can deliver to the colony. Did you say 120 00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:40.319 R value? Yeah, it depends which kind of empty 00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.799 super you can use, but we are between 120 and 00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:50.440 150 as the wall call it winter closure of the 00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:54.500 nest, which is made by three components. Nest 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:59.519 lead, empty super, one empty super made of a 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:04.779 solid APS and the top lid and the nylon strap 00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:07.859 to tie everything together. The coupling profile 00:30:07.859 --> 00:30:11.160 between the components is that such which is 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:16.660 airtight. So the air inside the empty super provide 00:30:16.660 --> 00:30:19.119 better insulation. And when we overwinter in 00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:22.880 Alaska, we instead of just an empty super, we 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:28.240 put kind of a mattress of additional EPS as an 00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:31.259 insulation material to better survive the long 00:30:31.259 --> 00:30:34.299 Alaska winter. And the same thing goes when you 00:30:34.299 --> 00:30:38.380 are in very hot climate. Yeah. Let me just interpret 00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:41.559 this for everybody a little bit. So this does 00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:44.579 not look like a normal beehive. You see this 00:30:44.579 --> 00:30:49.420 EPS material and the brood box, there's not two, 00:30:49.539 --> 00:30:52.099 there's one, and you call it a nest, which I 00:30:52.099 --> 00:30:55.200 absolutely love that term, by the way, the frames 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.789 inside are you said 70 centimeters, which is 00:30:58.789 --> 00:31:04.170 about 27 and a half inches tall. Exactly. And 00:31:04.170 --> 00:31:07.269 the width is roughly the regular width. Yeah, 00:31:07.269 --> 00:31:10.210 a little shorter, a little bit shorter. Just 00:31:10.210 --> 00:31:14.609 a little bit shorter. And so in the nest, you're 00:31:14.609 --> 00:31:17.630 going to be pulling out frames that are 27 and 00:31:17.630 --> 00:31:22.009 a half inches tall. Now, above that goes a brood 00:31:22.009 --> 00:31:24.529 box made out of the same material, same kind 00:31:24.529 --> 00:31:29.180 of insulation. But we can put our regular Langstroth 00:31:29.180 --> 00:31:33.059 frames in it. Exactly. Which also means we can 00:31:33.059 --> 00:31:36.079 pull them out and put them in our regular extractors. 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:38.619 We don't have to do anything special, different, 00:31:38.819 --> 00:31:41.019 or anything else to extract honey from them. 00:31:41.420 --> 00:31:45.509 That's a big deal. Yeah, and also because we 00:31:45.509 --> 00:31:47.970 don't want to harvest the honey from the primal 00:31:47.970 --> 00:31:52.630 bee nest frames, matched with the thermal efficiency 00:31:52.630 --> 00:31:56.309 of the nest itself, this is why we can really 00:31:56.309 --> 00:31:59.250 feed less and less compared to every other solution. 00:31:59.809 --> 00:32:04.009 Because the cluster of the bees during the winter 00:32:04.009 --> 00:32:07.150 start at the very bottom of the primal bee frames 00:32:07.150 --> 00:32:11.119 and then the cluster moves very, very little 00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:16.759 by little upwards when they need some honey for 00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:20.779 the winter consumption. But most of the time, 00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:25.359 between 10 and 12 centimeters of honey on top 00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:28.880 of the frame is more than enough to overwinter 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:32.960 the colony, at least in the place where we made 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:36.240 our experiment. Okay, now your R value, you mentioned 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:39.619 120. which I don't know of anything that's that 00:32:39.619 --> 00:32:43.380 high in our regular length strut hives, which 00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:46.059 are three quarter inch wood. I believe the R 00:32:46.059 --> 00:32:50.059 value is like one or two. Yeah, maybe five. It 00:32:50.059 --> 00:32:53.880 depends from the thickness of the play. So hardly 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.000 insulated at all, but a big fat tree has a ton 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:01.200 of insulation. So you're trying to reproduce 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:05.599 this tree like atmosphere. The last thing I don't 00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:08.319 want to get too technical here. But could you 00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:10.859 talk about the thermal dynamics just a little 00:33:10.859 --> 00:33:14.200 bit? Because we've had various people on the 00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:18.680 show talking about how important airflow is even 00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:21.940 when it's really cold in the winter. And other 00:33:21.940 --> 00:33:25.039 philosophies are, no, shut them down and don't 00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:28.140 have very much airflow at all. What's the airflow 00:33:28.140 --> 00:33:32.140 like on this? The critical point is the dew point. 00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:36.500 People that are used to open some hole or something 00:33:36.970 --> 00:33:41.289 on top of the nest, they do so because they think 00:33:41.289 --> 00:33:44.329 that the circulation of air between the bottom 00:33:44.329 --> 00:33:50.619 and the top can help the bees to evacuate. to 00:33:50.619 --> 00:33:54.720 put away the moisture inside the nest. But the 00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:57.480 real question is why those colonies have moisture 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:00.740 inside the nest? And the answer is because the 00:34:00.740 --> 00:34:04.359 dew point is inside the nest. So when you provide 00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:07.740 because of the shape and then the material, you 00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:11.769 provide such thermal efficiency. we move the 00:34:11.769 --> 00:34:15.190 dew point outside. That means that they don't 00:34:15.190 --> 00:34:19.130 need an air flow inside the nest during winter 00:34:19.130 --> 00:34:21.789 time. They need to stabilize the temperature 00:34:21.789 --> 00:34:26.170 and to do that with the minimal effort possible, 00:34:26.230 --> 00:34:28.869 with the minimal possible effort in a way that 00:34:28.869 --> 00:34:33.690 they really can keep the queen alive at the right 00:34:33.690 --> 00:34:38.630 temperature, almost just with their metabolic 00:34:38.630 --> 00:34:41.769 energy. That goes with the less consumption during 00:34:41.769 --> 00:34:46.010 the winter passage and at the beginning of spring 00:34:46.010 --> 00:34:50.010 when the cluster opens up and the queen understands 00:34:50.010 --> 00:34:52.309 that the queen feels that it's time to lay eggs, 00:34:53.090 --> 00:34:56.789 this operation to open the cluster and to raise 00:34:56.789 --> 00:35:00.440 the temperature from the winter queen passage 00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:05.119 to the brood temperature of 36 degrees comes 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:10.460 with the five or even more five times less effort 00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:13.860 than compared to the landstock hive. This is 00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:17.429 key because And this is much more related to 00:35:17.429 --> 00:35:21.150 the shape of the nest than the material itself. 00:35:21.269 --> 00:35:23.449 This is one of the things that we struggle the 00:35:23.449 --> 00:35:27.349 most to communicate because insulation is easy 00:35:27.349 --> 00:35:31.929 to understand. And even in our own houses, we 00:35:31.929 --> 00:35:35.230 see that when we put insulation in the house, 00:35:35.670 --> 00:35:38.690 we can consume less energy to stay warm during 00:35:38.690 --> 00:35:43.190 the winter. But the shape is really key. One 00:35:43.190 --> 00:35:46.630 of the things that Gianmario always try to explain 00:35:46.630 --> 00:35:51.610 to me first is a comparison between the shape, 00:35:51.829 --> 00:35:56.570 the small difference in shapes on a race car. 00:35:56.869 --> 00:36:01.090 When they change millimeters of the spoiler of 00:36:01.090 --> 00:36:05.110 the wings or whatever, the effect, the downside 00:36:05.110 --> 00:36:08.070 effect or the differences in the performance, 00:36:08.289 --> 00:36:11.050 it's huge. And mainly this is the same thing, 00:36:11.710 --> 00:36:15.099 changing the nest the shape of the nest improve 00:36:15.099 --> 00:36:18.239 a lot what the bees can do. And the bees, they 00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:21.920 know better than us. So when they feel they are 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:28.380 in a nest that is well made and easy to manage, 00:36:28.820 --> 00:36:32.940 they just act doing what they do best. So the 00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:35.420 conservation of energy and the better use of 00:36:35.420 --> 00:36:39.420 resources is in their DNA, and they just keep 00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:43.070 doing what they were able to do for. billions 00:36:43.070 --> 00:36:45.409 of years, for many, many years, thousands of 00:36:45.409 --> 00:36:49.010 years. And they go back to do what they were 00:36:49.010 --> 00:36:54.389 used to do before wrong wooden highs. Have you 00:36:54.389 --> 00:36:57.389 found that the bees also produce more honey? 00:36:57.650 --> 00:37:00.949 And if so, why? Correct. The bees produce more 00:37:00.949 --> 00:37:04.409 honey because, again, it's in their DNA. They 00:37:04.409 --> 00:37:09.030 know that when the net flow comes, it's time 00:37:09.030 --> 00:37:14.579 to put energy let's say in the ziagonal cells 00:37:14.579 --> 00:37:17.400 for when the winter will come and they don't 00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:21.000 have a limit. I mean, the limit is the nectar 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:25.619 flow itself. So when they understand by instinct 00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:30.199 that they don't need so much energy to keep the 00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:33.400 temperature of the brood inside the nest, they 00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:37.380 keep going harvesting nectar and this nectar 00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:40.920 will not be used during the same season, will 00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:44.380 be stored for the winter to come. The key point 00:37:44.380 --> 00:37:48.139 in the primal bee is that using the same last 00:37:48.139 --> 00:37:51.320 medium or deep to harvest honey and having the 00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:55.300 nest which consume, which require so less energy 00:37:55.300 --> 00:37:58.400 compared to what we were used to work with, it's 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:01.460 a win -win situation because what we leave into 00:38:01.460 --> 00:38:05.860 the nest for the colony is enough. or close to 00:38:05.860 --> 00:38:09.860 enough to survive an average winter everywhere 00:38:09.860 --> 00:38:13.820 in Europe and I can say everywhere in the US, 00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:18.239 maybe excluding Alaska or the cold state or the 00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:22.179 northeast of the US. But at the same time, we 00:38:22.179 --> 00:38:25.179 can harvest more honey. And from the comparison 00:38:25.179 --> 00:38:28.239 that we have already done in Europe and in Israel, 00:38:28.670 --> 00:38:32.289 On average, we harvest double the quantity compared 00:38:32.289 --> 00:38:35.010 to the wooden Langstock type. Sometimes it's 00:38:35.010 --> 00:38:37.929 even more, it depends. There are beekeepers in 00:38:37.929 --> 00:38:41.969 my area working with Primal Bee. They are already 00:38:41.969 --> 00:38:46.320 used to harvest the wild cherry honey. which 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:49.440 is something that people forgot about because 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:53.400 since the Varroa came in and the colony became 00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:57.000 weaker and weaker they were not able to harvest 00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:00.659 the wild cherry which is the very very first 00:39:00.659 --> 00:39:03.440 blossom that we have but with the primal bee 00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.780 and overwintery a strong colony and now they 00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:09.820 start going back to collect this honey that has 00:39:09.820 --> 00:39:12.380 not been collected since the 18 more or less. 00:39:12.710 --> 00:39:15.190 Alright, so what I'm gonna say, and I don't want 00:39:15.190 --> 00:39:17.550 this to sound rude in any way shape or form, 00:39:18.070 --> 00:39:21.210 you're putting a lot of promises out there, right? 00:39:21.449 --> 00:39:24.429 Less bee die -off, twice as much honey made. 00:39:25.210 --> 00:39:28.889 I decided to put this thing to the test and your 00:39:28.889 --> 00:39:32.150 marketing people were kind enough to send me 00:39:32.150 --> 00:39:35.630 one of your hives, the whole package, and even 00:39:35.630 --> 00:39:38.989 though This is going to be close to the end of 00:39:38.989 --> 00:39:41.969 August before I get bees in it. I'm going to 00:39:41.969 --> 00:39:44.949 try one this year and see how these bees overwinter. 00:39:45.530 --> 00:39:48.289 That's probably not fair because that's not enough 00:39:48.289 --> 00:39:50.349 of a head start before winter. Now you will need 00:39:50.349 --> 00:39:55.289 to feed them probably very very dense syrup as 00:39:55.289 --> 00:39:59.289 dense as honey and not less than probably between 00:39:59.289 --> 00:40:02.940 8 and 12 kilo. until they will build at least 00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:06.199 four or five full comms. And then I'm pretty 00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:08.800 sure that you will overwinter very well. Okay, 00:40:09.179 --> 00:40:11.940 I will do that. I'll feed the crap out of them 00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:15.300 and we'll see how it goes. And our listeners 00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:17.920 know here, I'll be very honest. If it works, 00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:20.639 and I really hope it does, and I think it will 00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:23.360 because everything you're saying just makes sense, 00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:26.659 then I'll report on that. And if for some reason 00:40:26.659 --> 00:40:30.329 it doesn't, then We'll learn and we'll talk about 00:40:30.329 --> 00:40:34.650 that come spring. I will be traveling again and 00:40:34.650 --> 00:40:38.699 again in the U .S. we should also create the 00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:41.820 opportunity for me to visit you in your place. 00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:44.679 Not only meeting in person in Appimondia, but 00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:47.820 really, I really would like to visit you in person 00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:51.840 so we can share our own experience. Yeah, it 00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:53.840 would be great. I would love that. That'll be 00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:56.320 really fun. And we are going to meet at Appimondia 00:40:56.320 --> 00:40:59.480 coming up here soon. Alex, I hope I remember 00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:01.940 to warn you of this when we talked previously. 00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:05.940 Everybody that comes on this show gets to tell 00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:10.440 about a wild or crazy or embarrassing or painfully 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:13.780 unusual beekeeping story that they personally 00:41:13.780 --> 00:41:16.019 have had. Would you have something you want to 00:41:16.019 --> 00:41:19.380 share with us? Yeah, actually, the craziest things 00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:22.719 that Gianmario and I did when we were using our 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:26.960 first prototype was starting moving the colony 00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:29.519 from where we are up to the mountains on the 00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.559 Switzerland border. In this ballet that it's 00:41:32.780 --> 00:41:39.099 25 kilometers long, full of sweet chestnut. It's 00:41:39.099 --> 00:41:42.059 a valley where you only have sweet chestnut trees. 00:41:42.860 --> 00:41:45.739 And I remember one night, and we were used to 00:41:45.739 --> 00:41:49.239 move our hive with my pickup truck. I have an 00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:54.820 old 99 Dodge pickup truck. It's my hobby. I dismantle, 00:41:54.820 --> 00:41:58.199 I modify it. But that night it was not available. 00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:03.300 So we use the John Mario's car. a old four wheel 00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:09.199 drive Jeep that has not picked up bad. So we 00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.760 put the hives inside the car. And there were 00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:17.559 prototypes, so not very well made with bees that 00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:22.400 can eventually get out. And driving during the 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:25.840 night on this mountain road. every time we were 00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:28.920 looking for just to see just to because it was 00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:32.780 fun to see wild boars and deers and actually 00:42:32.780 --> 00:42:37.500 after that we were going up and in the middle 00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:41.739 of the road there was a beautiful deer and Giammario 00:42:41.739 --> 00:42:45.199 loves animals but I was back then I was also 00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:48.840 a deer hunter. When Giammario saw the deer he 00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:51.400 saw a beautiful animal and when I saw the deer 00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:57.139 I saw mainly uh yeah goulash and uh and steaks 00:42:57.139 --> 00:43:01.340 and kind of so i i was trying to stop the car 00:43:01.340 --> 00:43:03.900 and i was shouting to him no don't stop don't 00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:06.920 stop grab the deal we have space we have room 00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:09.599 inside for the deal as well so there was a moment 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:14.900 of uh doubt and the car was shaking left and 00:43:14.900 --> 00:43:18.840 right and the eyes the prototypes open up so 00:43:18.840 --> 00:43:22.179 in a matter of a few seconds we were covered 00:43:22.179 --> 00:43:25.400 with thousands of bees and we were forced to 00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:28.400 stop the car ran out in the middle of the road 00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:32.019 in the mountains and shouting to each other how 00:43:32.019 --> 00:43:37.460 full we were. And at the end, we spent the following 00:43:37.460 --> 00:43:40.380 two hours trying to recover the bees inside the 00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:43.559 car, close the prototype and go on to the mountain 00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:47.519 apiary. And when we arrived at home, I was swallowing 00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:52.309 like, wow, it was the craziest night. as he might 00:43:52.309 --> 00:43:56.130 be keeping experience, and we still laugh about 00:43:56.130 --> 00:43:59.210 that and remember about that. And that was when 00:43:59.210 --> 00:44:02.570 we decided that we needed a nylon strap to tie 00:44:02.570 --> 00:44:06.429 everything down and not have these things happening 00:44:06.429 --> 00:44:10.829 again. That was really crazy. That is an awesome 00:44:10.829 --> 00:44:13.650 story. I wish we had video of that. I'm just 00:44:13.650 --> 00:44:18.650 picturing it in my mind. open hives in the car. 00:44:19.230 --> 00:44:20.989 You know that reminds me of something I'm going 00:44:20.989 --> 00:44:23.789 to tell this little story real quick. The first 00:44:23.789 --> 00:44:26.710 time that I ever caught a swarm and it was a 00:44:26.710 --> 00:44:29.389 really big one. It's one of the biggest swarms 00:44:29.389 --> 00:44:33.210 I have ever seen. And I had been told you can 00:44:33.210 --> 00:44:36.250 just take a cardboard box, shake it from the 00:44:36.250 --> 00:44:40.179 tree into the box. Well Let's just say it was 00:44:40.179 --> 00:44:43.139 a big swarm and it took a couple of boxes and 00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:46.500 I did that. And then I put some tape on the boxes, 00:44:46.539 --> 00:44:49.800 but I didn't want to make it, you know, airtight. 00:44:50.380 --> 00:44:52.340 Not that you can really get cardboard airtight, 00:44:52.820 --> 00:44:54.880 but there were a little teeny gap so that there 00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:57.300 was air flow going in and out. And I was driving 00:44:57.300 --> 00:45:00.199 my wife's car. That's a little Toyota hatchback. 00:45:00.340 --> 00:45:03.480 And I have these boxes of bees in the back seat. 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:06.659 And as I'm driving along, they start getting 00:45:06.659 --> 00:45:10.159 out. and one gets out and then two and then three 00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:13.980 and then thirty and forty and thank goodness 00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:17.539 they weren't coming after me they wanted to get 00:45:17.539 --> 00:45:20.639 out so they were against the windows and by the 00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:23.460 time i got home i couldn't even see out of the 00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:26.199 back window or the back side windows because 00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:29.500 they were completely blabbered with colon by 00:45:29.500 --> 00:45:33.079 bees And, uh, you know, we learned these lessons 00:45:33.079 --> 00:45:37.380 the hard way and it ended up being fun and a 00:45:37.380 --> 00:45:40.739 fun story. Yeah. But honestly, uh, now it's, 00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:44.420 uh, it's a startup companies with Israeli startup. 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.360 Uh, we have the team in the U S, uh, all amazing 00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:50.559 people. They are doing a great job, but, uh, 00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:53.539 at the bottom, the bottom is when we started 00:45:53.539 --> 00:45:56.320 working with the bees, uh, there was nothing 00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:59.489 like working with the bees. in our previous experience. 00:45:59.710 --> 00:46:02.650 And it's really something that you became addicted 00:46:02.650 --> 00:46:07.610 to. And even the way we look around on every 00:46:07.610 --> 00:46:11.510 season changed. We didn't notice flowers before 00:46:11.510 --> 00:46:14.650 working with bees. We didn't notice the different 00:46:14.650 --> 00:46:17.730 blossom of big trees before keeping bees. We 00:46:17.730 --> 00:46:21.869 didn't look at the nature around us in the same 00:46:21.869 --> 00:46:25.230 way that we look at now. It's amazing. It's just 00:46:25.230 --> 00:46:28.210 amazing. That's so true, and one of the beauties 00:46:28.210 --> 00:46:31.090 of beekeeping. All right, I need to let you go. 00:46:31.570 --> 00:46:33.969 Alex Gamberoni, thank you so much for being with 00:46:33.969 --> 00:46:38.170 me. Best of luck to Primal B. And by the way, 00:46:38.170 --> 00:46:40.250 we'll stick a link in the show notes if anybody 00:46:40.250 --> 00:46:42.889 wants to look it up and have a look at exactly 00:46:42.889 --> 00:46:45.289 what this thing looks like and how it works. 00:46:45.590 --> 00:46:48.250 And I'll see you at Appimondia. Yeah, yeah. Thank 00:46:48.250 --> 00:46:51.730 you very much, Eric, to host me in this wonderful 00:46:51.730 --> 00:46:54.690 conversation. And really, I'm looking forward 00:46:54.690 --> 00:46:57.610 to meet you in person in Appimondia. I will have 00:46:57.610 --> 00:47:01.010 those samples of the sweet chestnut for you to 00:47:01.010 --> 00:47:04.750 taste and bring back home. And yeah. We should 00:47:04.750 --> 00:47:09.510 also plan me to visit you in in Huta. Yeah, perfect. 00:47:09.730 --> 00:47:12.289 You come out here and do some skiing or in the 00:47:12.289 --> 00:47:14.750 summer and see the bees, either way. Yeah, yeah, 00:47:14.750 --> 00:47:20.429 I will. Thanks for joining us on Be Love Beekeeping 00:47:20.429 --> 00:47:23.769 presented by Man Lake. If you like this content, 00:47:23.829 --> 00:47:26.210 I hope you'll share it with a friend. Follow 00:47:26.210 --> 00:47:29.710 and subscribe to this podcast and even sign up 00:47:29.710 --> 00:47:32.010 for our newsletter at Be Love Beekeeping dot 00:47:32.010 --> 00:47:34.800 com. Also, just a shout out to Vita B Health 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:37.760 for their support, we appreciate them. Vita's 00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:40.719 Varroa Control range of products includes Apistan, 00:47:40.980 --> 00:47:45.099 Apigard, and now Varroxan, Extended Release Oxalic 00:47:45.099 --> 00:47:48.900 Acid Strips. Thanks guys, and remember, if you're 00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:51.579 not just in it for the honey or the money, you're 00:47:51.579 --> 00:47:53.940 in it for the love. See you next week.