WEBVTT 00:00:00.270 --> 00:00:03.830 May I have your attention, please? The following 00:00:03.830 --> 00:00:10.910 is not the real Jeff Fox review If you have learned 00:00:10.910 --> 00:00:14.449 the hard way that honeybees don't like internal 00:00:14.449 --> 00:00:19.510 combustion engines like lawnmowers You might 00:00:19.510 --> 00:00:24.710 be a beekeeper If you never ever thought that 00:00:24.710 --> 00:00:27.809 you'd have anything to do with an electric fence 00:00:28.140 --> 00:00:32.200 but you live in bear country? Well, you might 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:36.960 be a beekeeper. If you don't remember the last 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:42.200 time you washed your beekeeping suit, you might 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:52.700 be a beekeeper. Might be stinky too. Welcome, 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.679 welcome to Be Love Beekeeping presented by Man 00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:00.200 Lake. Today's guest is the amazing Dr. Tom Seeley. 00:01:00.619 --> 00:01:02.579 We're going to be all over the place learning 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:07.099 about everything from worker bee piping in swarms 00:01:07.099 --> 00:01:10.420 to the differences between Langstroth hives and 00:01:10.420 --> 00:01:14.099 honeybee homes in trees to hive insulation, Varroa 00:01:14.099 --> 00:01:18.340 control, and the one we've all got to try bee 00:01:18.340 --> 00:01:22.209 lining, also known as bee hunting. First, a quick 00:01:22.209 --> 00:01:24.590 feel -good story ripped from the headlines of 00:01:24.590 --> 00:01:28.450 the world of honey bees. Meet Maple, a former 00:01:28.450 --> 00:01:31.969 human remains detection dog, is now a beekeeper 00:01:31.969 --> 00:01:34.829 at Michigan State University's Pollinator Performance 00:01:34.829 --> 00:01:38.849 Center. She's a very energetic springer spaniel 00:01:38.849 --> 00:01:41.250 who really likes to work and have a purpose, 00:01:41.750 --> 00:01:44.250 and so this was a wonderful opportunity for her 00:01:44.250 --> 00:01:48.280 to continue working. said Sue Stakehall, Maple's 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.379 owner, canine handler, and trainer. Maple uses 00:01:51.379 --> 00:01:54.900 her sense of smell to detect American foul brood. 00:01:55.180 --> 00:01:59.299 If she detects the bacteria, she sits. And you've 00:01:59.299 --> 00:02:01.700 got to see the pictures because Sue made Maple 00:02:01.700 --> 00:02:05.939 a custom doggy beekeeping suit. That is, it's 00:02:05.939 --> 00:02:08.879 unbelievable. It's awesome. According to Stakehall, 00:02:09.340 --> 00:02:12.340 Dogs can be trained to detect many things like 00:02:12.340 --> 00:02:15.560 explosives, narcotics, people, leaking pipelines, 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:19.979 even endangered species, she said. People probably 00:02:19.979 --> 00:02:22.879 don't realize how many different types of detection 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:28.120 dogs are used. and MSU researcher Megan Milbrath 00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:31.300 says their team is developing an instructive 00:02:31.300 --> 00:02:34.939 manual for professionals to train dogs to detect 00:02:34.939 --> 00:02:38.620 harmful honeybee diseases, which saves both bees 00:02:38.620 --> 00:02:42.180 and time. When you've got tens of thousands of 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:44.659 colonies to go through, we have to look at ways 00:02:44.659 --> 00:02:47.259 that could process a lot of samples quickly, 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:51.120 Milbrath said. a dog really can quickly move 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.960 through a yard and identify ones that need to 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:57.599 be inspected. Love it, great story, way to go, 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:00.400 Maple. All right, let's get to the interview. 00:03:03.099 --> 00:03:06.300 We have an extremely special guest on the show 00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:10.680 today, Dr. Tom Seeley, coming to us from a beautiful 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:15.620 spot in Maine. How are you today, Tom? I'm happy 00:03:15.620 --> 00:03:18.400 as a clam at high tide, as they say up here. 00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:21.240 And I know you're from Ithaca, New York. Do you 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:26.280 spend summers in Maine? Yes, I spend about three 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:30.939 months in Maine. I married a Maine girl. When 00:03:30.939 --> 00:03:33.580 we got married, she told me, Tom, I'm always 00:03:33.580 --> 00:03:36.219 going to need a sea breeze. So I built a little 00:03:36.219 --> 00:03:41.419 house up here and spend a good part of the year. 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.159 Well you were kind enough to send me a picture 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:48.240 of the view from where you are and it's stunning 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:52.080 it's beautiful and I'm glad you're enjoying your 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.919 summer. Hey for those that don't know who Dr. 00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:58.759 Sealy is, Tom do you mind if I embarrass you 00:03:58.759 --> 00:04:01.460 a little bit just by giving people some background? 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:04.740 I know the most important thing for you is the 00:04:04.740 --> 00:04:07.280 fact that you've been beekeeping for 56 years. 00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:10.219 You started when you were in high school And 00:04:10.219 --> 00:04:12.080 that is so cool. And we're going to get into 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.020 that story in a few minutes, but I want to say 00:04:15.020 --> 00:04:19.519 Dr. Seeley has been a professor at Cornell University 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:24.500 for his career and has studied everything having 00:04:24.500 --> 00:04:27.180 to do with bees and especially, please correct 00:04:27.180 --> 00:04:31.620 me if I'm wrong, bee behavior and ecology. Yes, 00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:34.199 that's exactly right. Both of those things, behavior 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:38.439 and ecology. And you're the author of six books? 00:04:39.050 --> 00:04:41.889 I think that's right, six books. The first one 00:04:41.889 --> 00:04:44.509 that I read was Honey Bee Democracy. It sounds 00:04:44.509 --> 00:04:47.129 a little crazy to say it changed my life, but 00:04:47.129 --> 00:04:52.389 wow, it just blew open my brain to bees and so 00:04:52.389 --> 00:04:54.889 much more. And by the way, and I think this is 00:04:54.889 --> 00:04:56.889 your newest book, I'm in the middle of it right 00:04:56.889 --> 00:05:01.089 now, Piping Hot Bees and Boisterous Buzz Runners. 00:05:01.509 --> 00:05:03.589 We'll find out a little bit about what that means 00:05:03.589 --> 00:05:06.420 today, but we're not here to pitch books. We're 00:05:06.420 --> 00:05:09.699 here to talk beekeeping and talk honeybees and 00:05:09.699 --> 00:05:13.079 their behavior and I hope that as we get into 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:16.620 some of the things that may sound at first glance 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:19.600 like, well what does that have to do with me 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.839 and my beekeeping? The fact that honeybees swarm 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:26.420 in this particular way and have these behaviors. 00:05:27.139 --> 00:05:29.920 I hope Tom you can help me and our listeners 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:34.670 come to where we can take those things and internalize 00:05:34.670 --> 00:05:40.310 them into how our behavior is with bees just 00:05:40.310 --> 00:05:43.170 by understanding them better and how we keep 00:05:43.170 --> 00:05:45.350 them. Do you have any particular place you'd 00:05:45.350 --> 00:05:47.709 like to start? If not, I've got a thousand questions 00:05:47.709 --> 00:05:50.329 for you. Well, let's see. You've got more experience 00:05:50.329 --> 00:05:52.810 in organizing these presentations, so I'll follow 00:05:52.810 --> 00:05:57.569 your guidance. Well, I appreciate that. Between 00:05:57.569 --> 00:06:00.829 this and another podcast, I've interviewed quite 00:06:00.829 --> 00:06:02.910 a few hundred people, but I've got to tell you, 00:06:02.910 --> 00:06:05.310 I'm a little nervous because in the beekeeping 00:06:05.310 --> 00:06:10.209 community, Tom Seeley is it. Okay. I hate to 00:06:10.209 --> 00:06:13.670 use hyperbole, but is it possible that you know 00:06:13.670 --> 00:06:16.470 more about bee behavior than anybody else on 00:06:16.470 --> 00:06:20.509 this planet right now? It's possible. Speaking 00:06:20.509 --> 00:06:24.009 of embarrassing you, go ahead and answer. Well, 00:06:24.009 --> 00:06:27.689 I'd say I've made it the focus, the primary focus 00:06:27.689 --> 00:06:33.009 of my 50 -some years of studying the bees. And 00:06:33.009 --> 00:06:34.889 in some sense, it's been a very narrow. There's 00:06:34.889 --> 00:06:37.029 many ways to study honeybees. And I've really 00:06:37.029 --> 00:06:39.589 focused on their behavior and also their ecologies. 00:06:39.889 --> 00:06:42.949 I suppose that does the combination of the many 00:06:42.949 --> 00:06:45.970 years and the focus, particularly on their behavior, 00:06:46.689 --> 00:06:49.629 does make me especially well knowledgeable on 00:06:49.629 --> 00:06:53.620 this topic. But I don't claim by any means to 00:06:53.620 --> 00:06:58.399 say that we fully, I or anybody else, fully understands 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:01.519 the behavior of worker honeybees. They are the 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:05.000 most intelligent of all the insects and they've 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:07.300 got a lot of mysteries still. Well, that's one 00:07:07.300 --> 00:07:10.600 of the things I love about them is we'd never 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:15.680 fully figure it out. The bees and things like 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:18.360 Varroa and stuff that make beekeeping tough. 00:07:18.670 --> 00:07:21.110 We never fully have all the answers, I don't 00:07:21.110 --> 00:07:24.750 believe. Yeah, I like to draw the analogy between 00:07:24.750 --> 00:07:27.670 human beings and honeybees. In both cases, we 00:07:27.670 --> 00:07:30.709 are the most complex behaviorally and cognitively 00:07:30.709 --> 00:07:33.529 of the primates, and the honeybees are the most 00:07:33.529 --> 00:07:36.509 complex behaviorally and cognitively of the insects. 00:07:36.569 --> 00:07:39.350 And in both cases, it's because we live in very 00:07:39.350 --> 00:07:42.750 complex societies. It's social living, we know. 00:07:43.100 --> 00:07:46.560 that really builds complex brains. And so that's, 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.779 that's a real parallel between humans and honeybees. 00:07:50.259 --> 00:07:52.860 So on that topic, since you just brought it up, 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:56.360 I want to read something that you've got posted 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:58.759 on Cornell's website. I was going to save this 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:00.980 for later because it sounds very scientific, 00:08:00.980 --> 00:08:05.360 but I absolutely love this. Here we go. Remarkably, 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.620 there are intriguing similarities between how 00:08:08.620 --> 00:08:12.269 the bees in a swarm and the neurons in a brain 00:08:12.269 --> 00:08:15.670 are organized so that even though each unit, 00:08:16.389 --> 00:08:20.189 B or neuron, has limited information and limited 00:08:20.189 --> 00:08:23.810 intelligence, the group as a whole makes first 00:08:23.810 --> 00:08:27.990 -rate collective decisions. For example, in both 00:08:27.990 --> 00:08:31.029 systems the process of making a choice consists 00:08:31.029 --> 00:08:34.809 of a competition between the options to accumulate 00:08:34.809 --> 00:08:41.799 support, B visits or neuron firings, Also in 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:44.820 both systems the winner of the competition is 00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:48.039 determined by which option first accumulates 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:52.799 a critical level or quorum of support. Consistencies 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:56.120 like these indicate that there are general principles 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:59.779 of organization for building groups that are 00:08:59.779 --> 00:09:03.679 smarter than the smartest individuals in them. 00:09:04.059 --> 00:09:07.480 I totally get that and I think it is so cool 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:14.659 just like In a group of human beings, it takes 00:09:14.659 --> 00:09:19.000 a hundred different high -tech companies before 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.600 giant leaps in computer technology happen, for 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:26.340 example, and hundreds of people at each of those 00:09:26.340 --> 00:09:30.419 places to where we now have inventions that one 00:09:30.419 --> 00:09:34.679 person couldn't come up with every part of. And 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:38.539 I think that's what we're talking about. in the 00:09:38.539 --> 00:09:43.100 consensus of bee colonies is the whole collective 00:09:43.100 --> 00:09:46.139 is so much smarter than one individual bee. Can 00:09:46.139 --> 00:09:48.419 you please explain that better than I just did? 00:09:49.620 --> 00:09:52.940 Well, let's just use an example. I think it's 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:57.419 the colony as a whole. Let's look at its foraging 00:09:57.419 --> 00:10:01.840 operation. It's spreading its foragers far and 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.379 wide and in many different directions to gather 00:10:04.379 --> 00:10:06.840 the food and the water and the resin that it 00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:10.360 needs. And no one bee can go out and collect 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:13.019 the information about all the foraging opportunities 00:10:13.019 --> 00:10:16.460 across the countryside. So just right at the 00:10:16.460 --> 00:10:20.419 level of getting the information about the problem, 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:23.299 which we would call the sensory aspect of it, 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:26.179 that's dispersed among all of the foragers, so 00:10:26.179 --> 00:10:28.820 thousands and thousands of bees. And then they 00:10:28.820 --> 00:10:32.419 have to somehow have a way to use all that information 00:10:32.419 --> 00:10:34.799 that's been collected, and they do it. in ways 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:37.799 where the bees come back and they carefully advertise 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:41.519 what they found in terms of its direction and 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:45.120 distance and its desirability. And they adjust 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:49.240 the announcement of the dance announcement's 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.960 strength according to the desirability. So the 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:55.000 best things get advertised the most strongly. 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:58.840 And so that gives a bias to sending more bees 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:01.159 to those locations than to poorer locations. 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:06.120 It's a very Very sensible, but at the same time, 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:10.179 wonderful system of organizing, deploying the 00:11:10.179 --> 00:11:12.720 foragers in a colony. Something similar happens 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:14.919 in a swarm, but the rules are a little bit different. 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.179 And you somehow figured out the rules. That's 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:21.899 always the challenge. You see, let's go to a 00:11:21.899 --> 00:11:23.980 swarm because it's a little simpler. It's easier 00:11:23.980 --> 00:11:26.860 to envision, I think. You see this mass of bees 00:11:26.860 --> 00:11:30.120 hanging from a tree branch. And if you look closely, 00:11:30.179 --> 00:11:34.200 you'll see Bees these would be the Nessite scouts 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:36.480 coming back landing on the surface of the swarm 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.720 and doing waggle dances and Some of the waggle 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:42.480 as the bees do their waggle dance They walk upward 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.320 and others walk sideways and others walk downward 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:48.419 and some are very excited and some are less excited 00:11:48.419 --> 00:11:52.120 and somehow out of all of that and that's a big 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:55.500 body of information that's being collected and 00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:58.809 Processed there on the surface of the swarm That's 00:11:58.809 --> 00:12:01.529 a good example of the collectiveness of it. And 00:12:01.529 --> 00:12:04.929 then it's basically a race. The best site gets 00:12:04.929 --> 00:12:07.669 advertised the most strongly. The buildup at 00:12:07.669 --> 00:12:10.950 that site happens the most rapidly. And it's 00:12:10.950 --> 00:12:14.090 the first site to get enough popularity for the 00:12:14.090 --> 00:12:17.830 bees to get nest site scouts to sense, oh, this 00:12:17.830 --> 00:12:21.330 site is a really good one. Let's cut. We don't 00:12:21.330 --> 00:12:23.490 need to talk anymore. We've found a really good 00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:26.269 site. Let's go back and get things organized 00:12:26.269 --> 00:12:29.509 to make the move to this new home. So for beekeepers 00:12:29.509 --> 00:12:32.929 that like to catch swarms, how can they use that 00:12:32.929 --> 00:12:36.070 information that you just gave us? That's a really 00:12:36.070 --> 00:12:38.870 valuable question. There's a couple of things 00:12:38.870 --> 00:12:42.009 a beekeeper can use. One is if they see bees 00:12:42.009 --> 00:12:45.529 performing waggle dances that are where the bee 00:12:45.529 --> 00:12:47.750 as it walks forward and is waggling her body, 00:12:48.049 --> 00:12:49.950 if they're pointing in all sorts of different 00:12:49.950 --> 00:12:52.429 directions, straight up or straight down, left 00:12:52.429 --> 00:12:54.929 or right, That would tell the beekeeper that 00:12:54.929 --> 00:12:58.529 the nest -site scouts are not close to finishing 00:12:58.529 --> 00:13:02.009 the decision -making. And so you don't have to 00:13:02.009 --> 00:13:04.929 really rush. But there's another signal in there, 00:13:04.929 --> 00:13:07.909 Eric, that is even more valuable for a beekeeper. 00:13:08.370 --> 00:13:12.190 It's an acoustical signal called piping. And 00:13:12.190 --> 00:13:15.350 it's the sound that the nest -site scouts make 00:13:15.350 --> 00:13:19.750 when they sense that they're ready to The decision 00:13:19.750 --> 00:13:21.809 has been reached, and they need to go around 00:13:21.809 --> 00:13:24.730 and tell the other bees, the non -scouts bees 00:13:24.730 --> 00:13:27.389 in the swarm, to warm up their flight muscles 00:13:27.389 --> 00:13:30.110 so they can all launch into flight almost within 00:13:30.110 --> 00:13:36.789 simultaneously. And that sounds like this. So 00:13:36.789 --> 00:13:39.649 if you're a beekeeper and you put your ear up 00:13:39.649 --> 00:13:42.049 next to a swarm and you hear that sound, you 00:13:42.049 --> 00:13:45.309 know that that swarm's preparing to take off. 00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:49.019 And it will probably take off within one to five 00:13:49.019 --> 00:13:52.340 or six minutes. So if you hear that scramble 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:54.879 and get a hive and shake those bees into your 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:59.200 hive. Now I've also heard that sound in a hive. 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.080 Can you explain that? If you hear it in a hive, 00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:06.200 there's queen piping and then there's worker 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:07.940 piping. They're a little hard to tell apart. 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:11.220 You might be hearing queen piping and that would 00:14:11.220 --> 00:14:13.679 be piping between the different virgin queens 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.480 kind of advertising themselves or it could be 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:19.289 worker piping. if the colony is preparing to 00:14:19.289 --> 00:14:22.389 swarm, because the worker bees make this warm 00:14:22.389 --> 00:14:26.029 -up or piping signal to get everybody in the 00:14:26.029 --> 00:14:28.450 hive ready to have their flight muscles warm 00:14:28.450 --> 00:14:32.090 enough to fly out to form the swarm. So if you 00:14:32.090 --> 00:14:35.169 hear that, it's either the queens are fighting 00:14:35.169 --> 00:14:38.850 or the workers are getting ready to swarm. The 00:14:38.850 --> 00:14:40.929 first time I heard it, I think it was the queens, 00:14:41.330 --> 00:14:43.370 that former thing that you discussed, because 00:14:43.370 --> 00:14:45.710 they weren't ready to swarm. Tell us about how 00:14:45.710 --> 00:14:49.039 you got into beekeeping. Because this show is 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:52.820 all about the love of bees, and to spend your 00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:55.419 whole career with this, you must have some love. 00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:59.639 But where did it start? It started when I was 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:01.799 a boy, I think I was about 10 years old, and 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.679 I watched a swarm of bees move into a black walnut 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:08.299 tree near my parents' house. Fortunately, it 00:15:08.299 --> 00:15:11.620 was about a big old black walnut tree, but with 00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:14.580 many... big, big tree, but the bees just by chance 00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:17.240 moved into the bottom most limb. They were moving 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:21.500 in. I was initially scared of the bees, but as 00:15:21.500 --> 00:15:25.740 I got a little more braver or more experienced 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:27.580 in watching the bees, I realized I could bring 00:15:27.580 --> 00:15:31.860 up my father's stepladder and set it up right 00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:33.720 next to the nest entrance. And I didn't have 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.279 a bee veil or anything, but I could sit there 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.399 quietly and just watch the bees. I think that's 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:41.549 what And it was a huge mystery, as I'm sure you 00:15:41.549 --> 00:15:43.809 can see. You see bees coming and going from a 00:15:43.809 --> 00:15:46.210 knot hole, and you wonder, what's going on inside 00:15:46.210 --> 00:15:48.769 there? That really, I think, was the thing that 00:15:48.769 --> 00:15:52.470 got me going, seeing the bees firsthand and up 00:15:52.470 --> 00:15:55.389 close and wondering what on earth is going on 00:15:55.389 --> 00:15:58.929 inside that tree hollow. I think that says a 00:15:58.929 --> 00:16:03.049 lot about you, too, frankly, because I can imagine 00:16:03.049 --> 00:16:07.220 a bunch of 10 -year -old boys Also taking baseball 00:16:07.220 --> 00:16:09.580 bats to that and seeing who dared hit it and 00:16:09.580 --> 00:16:12.200 run the fastest. So you must have really been 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.440 a deep thinker. I don't know if I thought was 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.899 thinking deeply. I like nature. We lived out 00:16:17.899 --> 00:16:20.379 in the country, saw a lot of neat things in the 00:16:20.379 --> 00:16:23.120 natural world. And this was one that was particularly 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.259 mysterious because there was a lot of action, 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:27.879 but it was out of sight. We'll call it a deep 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:31.320 curiosity. How's that? Yeah, that's right. That's 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:33.840 it. Exactly. And that was in the Ithaca, New 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.860 York area. Yeah, it's in the little, a little 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:40.580 valley just outside of Ithaca called Ellis Hollow. 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:43.519 It's where I still live. In fact, it didn't disperse 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.220 well. A few years ago we went through Ithaca 00:16:46.220 --> 00:16:51.980 and talk about a beautiful area. Wow. Green and 00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:54.740 you've got the finger lakes there and yeah, it's 00:16:54.740 --> 00:16:58.539 just beautiful. Yeah. It's remarkable that it 00:16:58.539 --> 00:17:01.419 has this super duper university in the middle 00:17:01.419 --> 00:17:04.480 of nowhere. It's because the founder. Ezra Cornell, 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:08.039 who made a fortune on telegraph, setting up telegraph 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:12.039 systems. That's where he owned land. And he was 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.259 a good guy. He said, I got all this money. I 00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:18.720 want to do something good with it. And I'm going 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:21.380 to start a university. And he had the brains 00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:23.779 to realize he didn't know how to do it, but he 00:17:23.779 --> 00:17:27.039 hired a very smart guy. I forget from where he 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:29.720 came from. The two of them together set up this 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:33.240 very remarkable university in the middle of just 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.440 a tiny little city. And you spent your whole 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:39.039 career there. Yeah, I spent a few years. My first 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.799 job was teaching in New Haven, Connecticut at 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.599 Yale University. It's where I had a job offer 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.400 was given to me. It was a rundown city at the 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.900 time. Now it's rejuvenated, but it was a difficult 00:17:50.900 --> 00:17:53.079 place to live at the time. Dangerous, in fact. 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:56.400 I once got held up at gunpoint. So that made 00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:59.400 me think, I don't think I want to stay here too, 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.829 too long. Quick break here to thank our presenting 00:18:02.829 --> 00:18:05.589 sponsor, Man Lake. Whether you're a beekeeper 00:18:05.589 --> 00:18:08.869 or not, you know that nutrition is key for healthy 00:18:08.869 --> 00:18:11.970 honeybees, native bees, and other pollinators. 00:18:12.450 --> 00:18:16.049 The Man Lake app is a great resource for determining 00:18:16.049 --> 00:18:18.630 pollinator -friendly plants that thrive in your 00:18:18.630 --> 00:18:21.769 area, and its plant identification feature is 00:18:21.769 --> 00:18:24.589 super helpful and fun. When I see a plant covered 00:18:24.589 --> 00:18:27.690 in bees, I fire up the app, find out what it 00:18:27.690 --> 00:18:30.289 is, then plant them in my yard. If you haven't 00:18:30.289 --> 00:18:32.450 already downloaded the Man Lake app, give it 00:18:32.450 --> 00:18:35.329 a try today. Oh, and did I mention it's free? 00:18:36.109 --> 00:18:38.230 And if you're shopping for beekeeping supplies, 00:18:38.609 --> 00:18:41.829 don't forget your discount code MLBlove10. It's 00:18:41.829 --> 00:18:45.269 in the show notes for $10 off your first $100 00:18:45.269 --> 00:18:48.309 purchase. All right, let's switch gears for a 00:18:48.309 --> 00:18:51.069 minute. Let's talk about a hobby that I have 00:18:51.069 --> 00:18:55.170 not taken up yet called bee lining or bee hunting. 00:18:56.230 --> 00:18:59.420 For those that haven't heard about this. Tell 00:18:59.420 --> 00:19:03.640 us what in the world this is. Bee lining is an 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.240 old craft that goes back hundreds of years, whereby 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.420 before people had bees and hives, before Langstroth 00:19:10.420 --> 00:19:14.920 invented a hive, the way people got honey was 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:20.000 to line bees, to follow bees that you see on 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.700 flowers. Follow them back their flight lines 00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:26.680 home to their hive to their usually in a tree 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.339 and then collect the nest and steal the honey 00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:32.000 So bee lining is the process of following the 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.200 bees from where you first see them on flowers 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:38.240 Back to their home and it's it's a craft. It's 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:42.079 a skill and it's another great way to enjoy To 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:44.460 have fun with honeybees because when you'd be 00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:46.500 line, you're just you're feeding bees sugar water 00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:49.180 and they're happy and you get to watch how they 00:19:49.180 --> 00:19:51.680 load up and fly away and there's no danger of 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:53.940 being stung, anything like that. I'd like to 00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:55.759 say it takes you to places you wouldn't otherwise 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.480 go. Can you tell me about the process? You just 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.019 mentioned sugar water. How do you do this? Do 00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:03.900 you just set up in the forest someplace? What 00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:07.619 do you do? You start by trapping bees in a little 00:20:07.619 --> 00:20:11.900 box and it could be just a cardboard box or whatever. 00:20:12.339 --> 00:20:15.759 You go out to find bees on flowers. You trap 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.299 them in a box. It's called a bee box if you want 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:21.140 to have a special one. And once the bees are 00:20:21.140 --> 00:20:24.680 in there, you put a comb filled with sugar water 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.140 in your little box. The bee box, a bee hunter's 00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:30.599 box, has two chambers. You capture bees in the 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.220 box. You lure them to the rear chamber. That 00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:35.039 allows you to put food in the front chamber. 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.240 And then you let the bees move from the rear 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.200 chamber to the front chamber. They walk onto 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.859 your comb that's filled with thick sugar syrup. 00:20:42.980 --> 00:20:45.700 They think they've found heaven. You leave the 00:20:45.700 --> 00:20:47.660 box closed for a few minutes. You'll open it 00:20:47.660 --> 00:20:50.079 up. They come out. They're usually not freaked 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:53.579 out. They circle around. They fly home. And then 00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:55.660 unless there's a honey flow on, they will come 00:20:55.660 --> 00:20:57.880 back. And then once you've got a traffic of bees 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.180 between their home and your bee box, you can 00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:03.180 then see the direction they're flying home. And 00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:06.319 you can move your box step by step, maybe once 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:10.579 every hour or so, another 100 yards or more if 00:21:10.579 --> 00:21:13.519 it's open territory. back down their flight line 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:18.000 and bit by bit you work your way back to their 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.160 home. Depending on where you are, it might be 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.440 in somebody's apiary or it might be a bee tree 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.240 in somebody's barn, something like that. So how 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:28.640 long does that usually take? You mentioned moving 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.279 it every hour. Is this a whole day, multiple 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.660 day? Yeah, that's an important question. I'm 00:21:34.660 --> 00:21:36.980 just trying to pull up the numbers. I think the 00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:41.519 shortest bee hunt I ever did was an hour because 00:21:42.250 --> 00:21:47.329 I started the bee line unknowingly, only about 00:21:47.329 --> 00:21:49.650 100 yards from their home. The longest one, I 00:21:49.650 --> 00:21:52.089 think, took two years. I wasn't working at it 00:21:52.089 --> 00:21:56.049 steadily, of course. Two years? Oh my gosh. Well, 00:21:56.069 --> 00:21:58.289 in the sense that I couldn't find it the first 00:21:58.289 --> 00:22:02.049 year, and so I went back and tried again and 00:22:02.049 --> 00:22:05.490 found it in the second year. The bees were... 00:22:05.259 --> 00:22:08.880 nesting very high up in a hemlock tree. So it 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.619 took a couple of tries, basically. But on average, 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:13.880 I think I've got some words in that book that 00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:19.339 it usually takes me maybe five hours, something 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.420 like that. So not a full day, but a good full 00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:25.140 morning and part of an afternoon. As I say, the 00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:28.200 beauty of it is it takes you to places you wouldn't 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.960 otherwise go to. And there's a kind of an exhilaration 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:36.029 or a sense of exuberance you feel when you finally 00:22:36.029 --> 00:22:39.730 find the bees home. Because if it's in a forested 00:22:39.730 --> 00:22:41.869 setting, you know, there's thousands of trees 00:22:41.869 --> 00:22:43.670 out there, but there's only one that the bees 00:22:43.670 --> 00:22:46.089 are living in. And when you work your way back 00:22:46.089 --> 00:22:48.049 to it and you find it and you see the bees going 00:22:48.049 --> 00:22:49.789 in and out of a knothole or crack in that tree, 00:22:49.829 --> 00:22:52.690 you realize, I did it! I did it! This is a real 00:22:52.690 --> 00:22:55.789 accomplishment. That, for the modern bee hunter, 00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:57.970 is not the honey at the end of the honey. It's 00:22:57.970 --> 00:23:01.009 the discovery of the bees. But I knew some old 00:23:01.009 --> 00:23:04.250 timers who didn't have much money. That's how 00:23:04.250 --> 00:23:05.970 they would get their sweetener. They would find 00:23:05.970 --> 00:23:08.910 a bee tree. They wouldn't kill the, cut it down 00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:11.130 and they would usually chop it open and take 00:23:11.130 --> 00:23:13.470 out some of the honeycombs, put them in a pot 00:23:13.470 --> 00:23:15.970 and bring it home. That's another approach to 00:23:15.970 --> 00:23:19.150 the whole bee hunting endeavor. That sounds like 00:23:19.150 --> 00:23:22.390 it takes so much patience. It does take patience, 00:23:22.509 --> 00:23:24.789 but sometimes patience is easy to have. If you're 00:23:24.789 --> 00:23:27.029 out in nature, you listen to what the birds are 00:23:27.029 --> 00:23:29.430 calling. You look at the, you study the trees 00:23:29.430 --> 00:23:32.039 around you. You got these neat little bees coming 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.359 and going, and they become individuals because 00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:37.480 you want to figure out how long it takes the 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:40.299 bee to go home. and come back, you have to label 00:23:40.299 --> 00:23:43.180 the bees with little dots of paint, and you get 00:23:43.180 --> 00:23:45.980 to really know them as individuals. Some work 00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:48.680 rapidly and efficiently, and some poke around. 00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:51.460 If you're an enthusiast, one would find it very 00:23:51.460 --> 00:23:54.140 interesting. And I think one of the coolest things 00:23:54.140 --> 00:23:56.299 about it, Eric, as maybe I've mentioned this, 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:58.700 maybe I'm repeating myself, you're now looking 00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:02.039 at the behaviors of individual worker bees. You're 00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.819 not confronted with hundreds of worker bees walking 00:24:04.819 --> 00:24:07.059 around on a comb in front of you. you really 00:24:07.059 --> 00:24:10.160 get to know them as individuals. Yeah and when 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.740 you're looking at hundreds it's hard to look 00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:15.339 at them as individuals. Right. It's hard to keep 00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:18.859 track of just one. Exactly. I try to do that 00:24:18.859 --> 00:24:21.700 sometimes just observing them outside a hive 00:24:21.700 --> 00:24:25.960 like I want to watch just one it's circling around 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:30.059 is it coming is it going and it can be very distracting 00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:32.039 when there's a hundred of them doing that it's 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:35.559 hard to keep your eye on one. So are you following 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.240 this bee lining? You're starting with one bee. 00:24:38.299 --> 00:24:41.960 Does it come back with some of her friends? Yeah, 00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:44.519 unless there's a honey flow on, you are usually 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.019 the best food source around if you're offering 00:24:47.019 --> 00:24:51.140 honey in a comb. And so yeah, she will go home, 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.740 maybe not on her first trip home, but sometimes 00:24:53.740 --> 00:24:56.420 she'll do a dance and advertise your feeder, 00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.720 your comb. Other bees start showing up, unmarked 00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:01.660 bees. So, you know, those are novices that she's 00:25:01.660 --> 00:25:05.019 brought to the site. And then you can label them. 00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:08.119 As I say, once you've got a nice little good 00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.299 traffic of bees flying between your feeding station 00:25:11.299 --> 00:25:13.160 and their home, then you can move the feeding 00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:18.039 station closer in stages, closer and closer to 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:20.940 their home. And that's the process of bee lining. 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:24.640 Okay. Let's shift gears a little bit because 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:29.559 I'm picturing bees inside of a tree. Can you 00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:33.259 give us an idea of How different is it for bees 00:25:33.259 --> 00:25:36.779 living in a tree versus these man -made boxes 00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:40.359 that we use? I mean, it's obviously a different 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:43.140 place, but does it affect their behavior also? 00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.240 Yes, I think it does. You know, the Langstroth 00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:49.059 hive is a brilliant invention from the perspective 00:25:49.059 --> 00:25:52.660 of enabling humans to manage in the colonies 00:25:52.660 --> 00:25:56.140 of bees, but it was designed not with a lot of 00:25:56.140 --> 00:26:00.299 consideration of the bees. What's ideal for the 00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:03.960 bees? For example, in nature, when the bees choose 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.079 a home site, they choose sites that are high 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.200 off the ground, so they're safe. They're not 00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:12.460 likely to be detected by bears. They also choose 00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:15.819 sites that are relatively small, cavities that 00:26:15.819 --> 00:26:19.359 are small, only the size of one deep 10 -frame 00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:22.440 hive body, for example. That's typical in a tree 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.140 cavity. And that means that they don't produce 00:26:26.140 --> 00:26:29.210 huge colonies, but they They have enough space 00:26:29.210 --> 00:26:33.049 to make a colony, to build up, get crowded, produce 00:26:33.049 --> 00:26:36.589 a swarm, store up honey. They still have enough 00:26:36.589 --> 00:26:39.789 space to store up about 40 pounds of honey. And 00:26:39.789 --> 00:26:43.450 as anybody knows, who's got lifted, hefted a 00:26:43.450 --> 00:26:46.690 full 10 -frame honey super. The other thing that's 00:26:46.690 --> 00:26:49.029 really strikingly different is the insulation 00:26:49.029 --> 00:26:52.150 of the nest. In the wild, I've dissected about 00:26:52.150 --> 00:26:55.549 20 bee trees. natural nests. And I think the 00:26:55.549 --> 00:26:58.210 average wall thickness, wood wall thickness was 00:26:58.210 --> 00:27:00.690 about, I can't remember, was four inches or six 00:27:00.690 --> 00:27:04.650 inches, but it much better insulation. So small 00:27:04.650 --> 00:27:07.690 entrance, smallish cavity, really good insulation 00:27:07.690 --> 00:27:11.170 and high off the ground, so less conspicuous 00:27:11.170 --> 00:27:14.529 to predators. So how does that affect their life 00:27:14.529 --> 00:27:17.490 cycle and just their overall behavior? Well, 00:27:17.730 --> 00:27:20.549 with life cycle, the main thing is that Well, 00:27:20.569 --> 00:27:22.569 one of the two main things that I can think of 00:27:22.569 --> 00:27:25.390 at this point is one is it means that colonies 00:27:25.390 --> 00:27:28.829 are gauged or set themselves up for swarming. 00:27:29.490 --> 00:27:32.269 As we all know, so much of our beekeeping management 00:27:32.269 --> 00:27:36.029 is swarm prevention. So we give colonies extra 00:27:36.029 --> 00:27:39.490 space. We also give them extra space for storing 00:27:39.490 --> 00:27:42.430 honey, more honey than they will need. So the 00:27:42.430 --> 00:27:46.450 bees in the wild are small. They're apt to swarm. 00:27:46.509 --> 00:27:48.690 They only store up as much honey as they need. 00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:50.980 And the other thing is one that I've mentioned 00:27:50.980 --> 00:27:54.140 is the safety of being high off the ground and 00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:56.960 in an inconspicuous nest entrance, for example. 00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:00.000 And then one last thing is a couple more, actually. 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:04.119 Within the nest, they have They will build as 00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:06.160 much drone comb as they want, which is usually 00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:09.539 about 15 % of their comb area is devoted to drone 00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:12.559 comb. So they will produce, they'll have greater 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:14.859 reproductive genetic success because they're 00:28:14.859 --> 00:28:18.279 rearing more drones in a wild colonies nest than 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.019 in a managed colonies nest. The other one, maybe 00:28:21.019 --> 00:28:23.420 I'm repeating myself, is the very good insulation 00:28:23.420 --> 00:28:27.500 of a wild colonies nest. So how would you suggest 00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:31.099 hobby or even commercial beekeepers take that 00:28:31.099 --> 00:28:34.400 information? and use it in their beekeeping. 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:36.980 Now I realize the whole idea of the Langstroth 00:28:36.980 --> 00:28:41.160 hive is, yes, they do pretty well in it, but 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.200 it's really convenient for us for getting that 00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:48.519 honey out, right? So, I mean, for example, it's 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.839 not practical for us to have a four or six inch 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:56.259 thick walls on a bee box, you know, weigh a couple 00:28:56.259 --> 00:28:59.900 hundred pounds more than it already does. So 00:28:59.900 --> 00:29:02.900 how do we use that information? Well, if you're 00:29:02.900 --> 00:29:05.799 a beekeeper in a northern climate, I think one 00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:07.759 thing you want to do is, or a cold climate, I 00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:10.960 should say, is to add insulation. As you said, 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.720 it doesn't make sense to achieve that insulation 00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:17.339 by adding solid wood, but you can get very good 00:29:17.339 --> 00:29:20.500 foam insulation and put it on the outside of 00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:23.240 a hive, maybe even just for the winter. I've 00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:25.460 modified my hives. I use eight -frame hives, 00:29:25.460 --> 00:29:28.380 and I've put two inches of foam insulation on 00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:30.450 all the sides, and then I've... covered that 00:29:30.450 --> 00:29:32.490 over, that insulation over with quarter inch 00:29:32.490 --> 00:29:35.730 plywood. So it makes the hive a little bulkier 00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:38.269 than it would have without the insulation. But 00:29:38.269 --> 00:29:40.529 I live in a cold climate and the bees, they don't 00:29:40.529 --> 00:29:43.269 even go into a tight cluster in the winter inside 00:29:43.269 --> 00:29:45.309 that hive because there it stays warm enough 00:29:45.309 --> 00:29:47.690 in there. That's one way to do it is to just 00:29:47.690 --> 00:29:50.730 add the blue foam insulation that is used in 00:29:50.730 --> 00:29:53.109 house construction on the outside walls, put 00:29:53.109 --> 00:29:55.589 on an inch or two inches of it and then cover 00:29:55.589 --> 00:29:59.210 it with wood so it's protected. What about ventilation? 00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:03.039 Do we seal that thing up pretty tight or do they 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.960 need ventilation on the bottom and the top both? 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.660 This has been a controversy on this show. I've 00:30:08.660 --> 00:30:11.180 had people on talk about really different theories 00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:15.059 on this. My answer is going to again come. Eric 00:30:15.059 --> 00:30:17.259 from the bees. The bees tell me they don't want 00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:19.559 a top entrance because they go out of their way 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:22.259 to seal up as everybody beekeeper in the northern 00:30:22.259 --> 00:30:25.279 cold climates knows. They seal up all those cracks 00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.599 on the with the inner cover and the outer cover. 00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:30.819 They don't they don't want a top entrance. And 00:30:30.819 --> 00:30:34.339 I'll tell you and I learned why they don't. It's 00:30:34.339 --> 00:30:37.200 because in the winter, at least in a cold climate 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.000 setting where they can't go outside to get water. 00:30:40.829 --> 00:30:44.650 They rely on some condensation inside the hive 00:30:44.650 --> 00:30:47.390 for their winter water need. And I know that 00:30:47.390 --> 00:30:50.869 because in my office at Cornell, I keep an observation 00:30:50.869 --> 00:30:53.329 hive. And I like to keep it year round, keep 00:30:53.329 --> 00:30:55.369 the colony in there year round. And what I've 00:30:55.369 --> 00:30:57.950 learned in watching in the winter, because this 00:30:57.950 --> 00:31:00.630 hive is in a heated room, there's no condensation 00:31:00.630 --> 00:31:03.230 inside that hive. And those bees get wicked thirsty. 00:31:03.890 --> 00:31:06.589 And I know that because they, until I got smart 00:31:06.589 --> 00:31:08.960 enough to realize that I wasn't giving them kind 00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.940 of that they're having a problem. They would 00:31:10.940 --> 00:31:13.940 go out on the first any warm day in the winter, 00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.380 sunny day. And then when there was snow melting, 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.200 they'd go out on the dry, the black asphalt and 00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:22.920 drink, drink, drink water. Then the most vigorous 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.039 waggle dances I've ever seen, ever, ever seen 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:29.460 were performed by winter water collectors. They 00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:31.779 were so thirsty and they really wanted to get 00:31:31.779 --> 00:31:33.819 make sure everybody got the word that the water 00:31:33.819 --> 00:31:36.119 was available. I guess that's a long answer. 00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:38.220 I respect the bees. They don't want it. They 00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:40.339 don't want air leaking out the top of their hive. 00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.920 They seal the top of their hive. If you can let 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.720 them have some water, don't worry about the condensation. 00:31:45.940 --> 00:31:48.759 They want the condensation is useful to the bees, 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:50.819 at least in cold climates. That's their winter 00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:54.539 water source. So we want some. We don't want 00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:57.200 so much that it's dripping on them. Well, the 00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:59.839 cluster where it's where the bees are and the 00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:01.740 cluster is, there's enough warmth that there's 00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:03.980 not condensation right above the cluster. So 00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:06.779 it's not dripping on the bees. And if it drips 00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:09.660 on the combs around the bees, no big deal. That 00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:13.819 makes the water that they need for the winter 00:32:13.819 --> 00:32:15.980 more accessible. Because you have to always keep 00:32:15.980 --> 00:32:17.920 in mind, what are these poor bees eating all 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:23.900 winter? They're eating an 84%, 82 % sugar solution. 00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:27.180 There's almost no water in honey. And they need 00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:30.779 water, just as we need water. And so some condensation 00:32:30.779 --> 00:32:34.519 inside a hive may not look very homey or comfortable. 00:32:34.779 --> 00:32:37.819 or appealing to a human being, but at least in 00:32:37.819 --> 00:32:40.859 the cold climates where I live, it's very important 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:43.640 to the bees. As I say, it's their winter water 00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:46.539 source. I saw that when I intentionally did an 00:32:46.539 --> 00:32:48.539 experiment where I deprived them of that and 00:32:48.539 --> 00:32:51.559 how desperate they got for water when they didn't 00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.859 have it in their hive. You mentioned dissecting 00:32:54.859 --> 00:32:57.859 trees or trees with bees in them. How do you 00:32:57.859 --> 00:33:00.700 do that? Do you just cut it down and chop it 00:33:00.700 --> 00:33:03.329 open or what? This is sort of one of the dark 00:33:03.329 --> 00:33:06.329 sides of my research program. Early on in my 00:33:06.329 --> 00:33:09.430 studies of investigating how bees live in nature, 00:33:10.509 --> 00:33:15.410 a key early step was to go out, find bee trees, 00:33:15.710 --> 00:33:19.289 cut them down. And here it really gets nasty. 00:33:20.049 --> 00:33:23.710 I would put cyanide gas in the tree, go up to 00:33:23.710 --> 00:33:25.450 the tree early in the morning before it was going 00:33:25.450 --> 00:33:27.789 to be cut down. I put in this material called 00:33:27.789 --> 00:33:31.599 cyanogas in there. and stuff a rag in the entrance. 00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:34.160 And I couldn't cut the tree down and collect 00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:36.940 it and do all that with the bees angry at me. 00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:39.400 So I'd come back later in a few hours, come with 00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:41.640 a chainsaw, cut it down, figure out what section 00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:45.319 of the tree actually was housing the bees, cut 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:48.059 that out of the big tree, bring it back to the 00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:50.799 lab, split it open, and dissect the nest. And 00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:52.700 it was very revealing. That's how I learned that 00:33:52.700 --> 00:33:57.480 in nature, bees devote about 15 % of their comb 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:02.109 area. to drone call. It also became clear how 00:34:02.109 --> 00:34:06.109 important propolis is. Every surface inside those 00:34:06.109 --> 00:34:09.489 tree cavity nests has a thick coating of propolis. 00:34:10.449 --> 00:34:14.710 They very carefully make little passageways. 00:34:15.110 --> 00:34:18.130 They build their combs wall to wall inside that 00:34:18.130 --> 00:34:21.949 cavity, unlike in a hive, but they make little 00:34:21.949 --> 00:34:25.190 galleries, little openings on the ends where 00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:27.809 the combs hit the walls. They leave openings 00:34:27.809 --> 00:34:30.309 so they can get around from one side of the comb 00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:33.510 to the next side. And the entrance is usually 00:34:33.510 --> 00:34:35.730 at the bottom of the cavity so that the heat 00:34:35.730 --> 00:34:38.590 isn't going out the top. Please don't feel guilty. 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:42.280 for having to do that. You called it the dark 00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.079 side and things like that. And science needs 00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:48.239 to do that sometimes or dissect an animal or 00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:50.239 something. If I wanted to see what the nests 00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:53.099 were, I had to get the tree down. And if I got 00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:55.679 the tree down, there's going to be a bajillion, 00:34:55.780 --> 00:34:57.300 I mean, well, there's going to be thousands of 00:34:57.300 --> 00:35:00.019 stinging insects. And I just, I couldn't do those. 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:02.260 Yeah, that wouldn't have worked. And I wanted 00:35:02.260 --> 00:35:04.260 to know what the intact colony was. I wanted 00:35:04.260 --> 00:35:06.809 to know. how many workers there were, how many 00:35:06.809 --> 00:35:08.809 drones there were, that sort of thing, how much 00:35:08.809 --> 00:35:11.590 brood there was. That was a limited scientific 00:35:11.590 --> 00:35:14.269 thing. The rest of us aren't going to go out 00:35:14.269 --> 00:35:16.690 and do that kind of thing. We don't need to. 00:35:16.690 --> 00:35:19.730 We can learn from your science and appreciate 00:35:19.730 --> 00:35:25.150 it. I know you are specifically, what's the term 00:35:25.150 --> 00:35:27.869 I'm looking for? Your focus has been more the 00:35:27.869 --> 00:35:31.050 behavior of bees, but as far as the physical 00:35:31.050 --> 00:35:34.739 aspect, Do you have any advice for us on Varroa 00:35:34.739 --> 00:35:38.000 control and maybe relating it to how bees do 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.039 it in a natural environment versus in our apiary 00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.280 would give us some direction? Yeah, this is a 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.679 really tricky topic, Eric, because I'll tell 00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:49.539 you what I do, but it's not going to work for 00:35:49.539 --> 00:35:51.900 most people. I guess about, I can't remember 00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:53.719 how many years ago, I just went cold turkey and 00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:56.880 I stopped treating and most of the colonies died 00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:59.460 off, but the ones that didn't. I made splits 00:35:59.460 --> 00:36:01.599 from those. Since then, I've not needed to treat 00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:06.280 for Varroa. I was inspired by this by a beekeeper 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:10.079 up in Vermont, Kirk Webster, who's a commercial 00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:12.099 beekeeper. He runs several hundred colonies, 00:36:12.139 --> 00:36:14.280 and he did the same thing, but long before I 00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.380 did. There are colonies that are resistant to 00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:20.219 Varroa, and what they do, the workers in these 00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:22.579 colonies, they rip apart the Varroa. If they 00:36:22.579 --> 00:36:24.960 get a Varroa, they'll pull the legs off, they'll 00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:29.050 crush the body, and they throw them out. So that 00:36:29.050 --> 00:36:32.250 resistance does exist out there in nature. And 00:36:32.250 --> 00:36:34.389 so if you're a small scale beekeeper and you 00:36:34.389 --> 00:36:37.929 can buy a queen from Kirk Webster, he does sell 00:36:37.929 --> 00:36:40.329 them. Then that's, that's one room. If you can't 00:36:40.329 --> 00:36:42.449 do that, then I think, I think you just, you 00:36:42.449 --> 00:36:45.690 have to treat your colonies. And it's true that 00:36:45.690 --> 00:36:48.789 for a lot of beekeepers, that's just not going 00:36:48.789 --> 00:36:53.510 to be reasonable. And I know of some beekeepers 00:36:53.510 --> 00:36:56.670 that have said, Hey, I'm going to do that. and 00:36:56.670 --> 00:37:01.510 they had 10 colonies and all 10 died and spread 00:37:01.510 --> 00:37:06.309 viroa everywhere else around them too. So that 00:37:06.309 --> 00:37:10.210 isn't an answer for everybody in ideal situations. 00:37:10.349 --> 00:37:13.309 I think it's fantastic. Most of us have to treat 00:37:13.309 --> 00:37:16.969 in some way. Yeah and even if you're a non -treatment 00:37:16.969 --> 00:37:19.949 person you want to do some things like you ideally 00:37:19.949 --> 00:37:22.469 you don't put all your colonies right close together. 00:37:22.489 --> 00:37:26.980 So if one is collapsing the bees that are are 00:37:26.980 --> 00:37:29.800 drifting into your adjacent hives. Right, and 00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:32.219 the treatment -free beekeepers, it doesn't mean 00:37:32.219 --> 00:37:35.900 they don't do anything. They're doing something 00:37:35.900 --> 00:37:38.079 like the genetics that you're talking about. 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:40.699 They're doing brood breaks. They're doing other 00:37:40.699 --> 00:37:44.960 things that can help those colonies along, just 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:50.130 maybe not chemically. That's it for part one 00:37:50.130 --> 00:37:53.130 of our discussion with Tom. Next week's episode 00:37:53.130 --> 00:37:55.369 will feature the conclusion of our discussion, 00:37:55.829 --> 00:37:58.730 where we get into a whole other set of topics, 00:37:58.869 --> 00:38:01.190 you're not going to believe how many, and even 00:38:01.190 --> 00:38:03.809 find out his favorite wild and crazy beekeeping 00:38:03.809 --> 00:38:07.429 story. Until then, remember to subscribe and 00:38:07.429 --> 00:38:10.489 follow this podcast. Also a shout out to V2B 00:38:10.489 --> 00:38:13.280 Health for their support of the show. Vida's 00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:16.679 Varroa control range of products includes Apistan, 00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:20.920 Apigard, and now Varroxan extended release oxalic 00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:24.239 acid strips. Thanks guys, enjoy this beautiful 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:27.119 summer, enjoy your bees. Thanks again for joining 00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:29.960 us on Bee Love Beekeeping presented by our good 00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:33.039 friends over at Man Lake. And remember, if you're 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:35.980 not just in it for the honey or the money, you're 00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:38.300 in it for the love. See you next week.