WEBVTT 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:09.500 Good morning. How are we doing? It's Monday. 00:00:10.460 --> 00:00:14.019 It's a Monday. It's raining. It's raining. It's 00:00:14.019 --> 00:00:16.379 feeling a little bit like fall. Lots of people 00:00:16.379 --> 00:00:19.899 in our church family love fall and rain, I found 00:00:19.899 --> 00:00:21.879 out this weekend. Okay, I just need to make a 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:24.120 comment about the rain. Okay. Because we drove 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:27.559 into town from Prescott Valley to Prescott, driving 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:32.299 on 89 on Saturday, and it's pouring. Saturday 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:34.659 night? No, this is like Saturday during the day. 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:37.280 Okay. Okay, so we're going down. My mom is in 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:39.259 town. My stepdad's in town, so we're going downtown. 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:43.380 Driving on 89. We get to the Larry Caldwell exit 00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:48.039 -ish, so where our location is. And it's coming 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:51.539 down. And my windshield wipers need to be replaced. 00:00:51.579 --> 00:00:53.700 They're fighting. Yes, they are fighting a losing 00:00:53.700 --> 00:00:57.020 battle. They are fighting. But get this. People 00:00:57.020 --> 00:01:00.259 are slowing down to a point where we are stopped 00:01:00.259 --> 00:01:05.090 on 89 sitting in this rain. It sounds safe. It's 00:01:05.090 --> 00:01:07.909 totally not. I just couldn't believe it. I was 00:01:07.909 --> 00:01:09.129 like, what's happening right now? I mean, you 00:01:09.129 --> 00:01:10.430 would do that, right? If you're on a freeway 00:01:10.430 --> 00:01:13.870 somewhere, you just stop when it rains. Oh, is 00:01:13.870 --> 00:01:15.489 that how they teach you to drive in England? 00:01:17.409 --> 00:01:20.450 So I was shocked. The rain was pretty intense, 00:01:20.709 --> 00:01:22.430 but I don't know if it was. So my Saturday story, 00:01:22.629 --> 00:01:24.670 we go to Park Collective, teach, right? We do 00:01:24.670 --> 00:01:27.170 the gathering at Park Collective Saturday night. 00:01:28.310 --> 00:01:31.609 Driving home. Had it picked up again? I don't 00:01:31.609 --> 00:01:34.500 get nervous very often. What did you take home? 00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:39.079 Did you take 69 home? Yes. Okay. It is raining 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:41.980 so hard my wipers can't keep up. We have the 00:01:41.980 --> 00:01:44.540 same car. Same car. So maybe that's a flaw. Yeah. 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:47.180 But it's raining so hard. But the lightning. 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:51.719 The lightning was terrifying. Really? Yeah. Just 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:54.739 overwhelming. And so I don't get nervous very 00:01:54.739 --> 00:01:57.180 often. But I was like, man, I am not enjoying 00:01:57.180 --> 00:02:00.670 this drive home. This is not. yikes i just want 00:02:00.670 --> 00:02:03.790 to be home yeah but lots of rain lots of lightning 00:02:03.790 --> 00:02:06.650 wow it's pretty intense pretty amazing uh if 00:02:06.650 --> 00:02:08.610 you're just joining us welcome this is the heights 00:02:08.610 --> 00:02:10.650 unedited podcast it's a podcast about real life 00:02:10.650 --> 00:02:13.870 real conversations real it's unedited so we can 00:02:13.870 --> 00:02:16.050 talk about the weather before yeah you just got 00:02:16.050 --> 00:02:19.650 to be a part of our weather segment so because 00:02:19.650 --> 00:02:23.169 there's segments in the edited apparently yeah 00:02:23.169 --> 00:02:27.110 apparently uh it's pumpkin spice season pumpkin 00:02:27.110 --> 00:02:30.430 spy season i just had my first one of the season 00:02:30.430 --> 00:02:33.310 it was weird this weekend like like i'm gonna 00:02:33.310 --> 00:02:37.189 ask people too many questions yeah but and it 00:02:37.189 --> 00:02:39.870 got better the longer it went on yeah but saturday 00:02:39.870 --> 00:02:42.389 night very few responses to pumpkin spies uh 00:02:42.389 --> 00:02:47.129 did you not hear me yeah you're one person Yeah, 00:02:47.169 --> 00:02:51.689 but I feel like I was yelling. I was very excited. 00:02:51.689 --> 00:02:53.949 You were trying to count for 10 or what? No, 00:02:54.009 --> 00:02:56.849 I just feel passionate. I'm not the kind of guy 00:02:56.849 --> 00:02:58.969 that during a message is going to be like, that's 00:02:58.969 --> 00:03:02.310 good, but for pumpkin spice. But if you're inviting 00:03:02.310 --> 00:03:05.349 me into the conversation through pumpkin spice, 00:03:05.669 --> 00:03:09.069 I'm going to get loud. Okay, unpack pumpkin spice 00:03:09.069 --> 00:03:11.729 for me. Why pumpkin spice? Well, I think for 00:03:11.729 --> 00:03:15.729 Rye and I, it marks the beginning of fall for 00:03:15.729 --> 00:03:19.719 us. It is kind of early, right? Because Pumpkin 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:23.539 Spice dropped middle of August. But since we've 00:03:23.539 --> 00:03:25.979 been married, it's been like a tradition that 00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:28.759 we would go and get Pumpkin Spice on the first 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:31.419 day. Nice. We didn't do it this year because 00:03:31.419 --> 00:03:33.780 she worked. So that was kind of let down. But 00:03:33.780 --> 00:03:38.340 it really does mark the fall season for us. And 00:03:38.340 --> 00:03:41.259 you asked what fall is your favorite season. 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:45.219 I also was like... Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot 00:03:45.219 --> 00:03:47.120 of people, a lot of people that were in that 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.780 camp. Yeah. So fall is a big deal. Yeah. It's 00:03:49.780 --> 00:03:51.639 just, I think it's fun. And it was fun because 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:53.919 as the weekend grew, it was asking who's this 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:57.180 summer and recognizing there is grieving and 00:03:57.180 --> 00:04:02.400 celebration all in the same room. Yeah. The beard. 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:06.180 I'm curious if he's a pumpkin spice. You a connoisseur? 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:10.240 Don't love it, but I appreciate it. Oh, appreciate 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:14.780 it. Okay. Okay. well and rylan makes her own 00:04:14.780 --> 00:04:18.360 pumpkin spice as well like this is a big it really 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:20.839 is a big deal for you guys yeah like this is 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:22.560 i knew it was a big deal for her i didn't realize 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:25.120 you were on no like i so i usually will make 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:27.939 a plain americano when pumpkin spice gets made 00:04:27.939 --> 00:04:30.819 in our house then i will go and actually put 00:04:30.819 --> 00:04:33.220 that in my americano like that's how excited 00:04:33.220 --> 00:04:36.660 i get wow yeah yeah i'm not there it's all right 00:04:36.990 --> 00:04:38.709 You don't have to be. Not there. You're also 00:04:38.709 --> 00:04:40.589 the guy that has a cup of coffee at 9 p .m. and 00:04:40.589 --> 00:04:43.629 still can go to bed. I might have one pumpkin 00:04:43.629 --> 00:04:48.149 spice this season. Really? Yeah. But then when 00:04:48.149 --> 00:04:50.189 Christmas comes, you got to get the gingerbread 00:04:50.189 --> 00:04:54.649 latte. Oh, come on. If you're girly enough to 00:04:54.649 --> 00:04:57.230 drink the pumpkin spice. I'm more of a chestnut 00:04:57.230 --> 00:05:03.370 praline kind of gal. Oh, my God. We got some 00:05:03.370 --> 00:05:08.379 coffee in front of us. Huge shout out to Larry 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:12.660 Taylor for Larry, who in his recent trip to Hawaii 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:16.540 knows these wonderful people who have a coffee 00:05:16.540 --> 00:05:20.439 farm in Kona, no less. It's a really balanced 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:23.660 cup of coffee. That's amazing that he knows them 00:05:23.660 --> 00:05:26.019 and got to go. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Got to see the 00:05:26.019 --> 00:05:28.319 farm. That's the whole thing. So, Larry, thank 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.199 you. Thank you for sharing. Very appreciative. 00:05:30.379 --> 00:05:32.259 Yeah. It's a good cup of coffee. It's excellent. 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:36.399 Yeah. Is it hot in here? It feels like I got 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.819 hot. I have a poor read on that because I'm always 00:05:40.819 --> 00:05:43.500 sweating in some sense. Okay, true story, Beard. 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:49.100 Here we go. Rylan gets pregnant with Bex. Okay. 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:50.639 If you're at church this week, you got to see 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:54.180 Bex. He is my grandson, and he's amazing. But 00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:57.660 anyway, she gets pregnant. Literally overheats 00:05:57.660 --> 00:06:02.680 on vacation. Can't be in the sun. It's bad. Noah 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:05.839 is known for running really, really hot. And 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:08.860 so it was pretty funny that the offspring of 00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:13.819 Noah is overheating mama while on vacay. I will 00:06:13.819 --> 00:06:17.740 be honest. It can be the middle of winter with 00:06:17.740 --> 00:06:20.480 him. He can have his shoes on, socks and shoes 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:23.800 on. It can be 30 degrees out. I take off his 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:26.220 socks and shoes. He's got sweaty, clammy feet. 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:32.500 The man runs hot. I don't know where he gets 00:06:32.500 --> 00:06:33.740 from. He's going to be the dude at the store 00:06:33.740 --> 00:06:36.560 in the snowstorm. He's got his flip -flops on 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:39.040 and his shorts. He's just going to be out there. 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:40.899 And everybody's like, how can you do that? Then 00:06:40.899 --> 00:06:42.639 he'll be the guy at the football game with no 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:44.899 shirt on, just shorts. Oh, my goodness. This 00:06:44.899 --> 00:06:46.800 happened to us. It's going to be him. We were 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:50.560 visiting in California. We were at my grandparents' 00:06:50.779 --> 00:06:54.740 church. We had Bex. He was probably six months 00:06:54.740 --> 00:06:57.379 old at that point, seven months old. Didn't have 00:06:57.379 --> 00:07:02.560 a beanie on. A wonderful. ill -informed person 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:06.899 in passing was like put a beanie on that baby 00:07:06.899 --> 00:07:10.259 what are you doing and i was like you have no 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:14.220 idea you have no idea you have no idea it'll 00:07:14.220 --> 00:07:19.199 be over man but yeah i don't know uh new collection 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.680 new collection new collection yeah step into 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:24.920 the ring yeah did i get that right first try 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:27.410 yeah Yeah. Step into the ring. Step into the 00:07:27.410 --> 00:07:29.050 ring. It's an invitation. Yeah. Step into the 00:07:29.050 --> 00:07:32.509 ring. Which, and I think you kind of hit multiple, 00:07:32.670 --> 00:07:36.470 there's two kind of guiding metaphors. Yes. With 00:07:36.470 --> 00:07:40.670 the ring, not only of a tree. Yes. But also of 00:07:40.670 --> 00:07:43.189 a boxing ring. Yes. Well, tease that out for 00:07:43.189 --> 00:07:48.509 us. What's that all about? Yeah. So, in reading 00:07:48.509 --> 00:07:51.610 Ecclesiastes, I mean, you saw it. If you were 00:07:51.610 --> 00:07:53.730 there, well, a lot of people weren't there. But 00:07:53.730 --> 00:07:56.879 Big Bill, who attends, saturday saturday night 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:01.180 uh park collective instantly the minute he heard 00:08:01.180 --> 00:08:03.779 me read ecclesiastes takes out his phone and 00:08:03.779 --> 00:08:05.699 plays the song is it turn turn turn is that the 00:08:05.699 --> 00:08:09.420 song yeah everything that whole thing yeah uh 00:08:09.420 --> 00:08:12.939 so he instantly plays that why because everybody 00:08:12.939 --> 00:08:16.040 thinks chapter three everybody thinks time And 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.759 we'll get there. We'll get there. So I knew that 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.220 time is a piece of this. The problem of time 00:08:22.220 --> 00:08:24.360 is what Ecclesiastes, one of the foundations 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.660 of Ecclesiastes, is the problem of time. So I 00:08:27.660 --> 00:08:32.159 kind of had that cooking in the background. But 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:39.500 then also, just the concept of this fight, I 00:08:39.500 --> 00:08:43.210 feel like... the fight for significance, the 00:08:43.210 --> 00:08:45.090 fight for meaning, the fight for control, the 00:08:45.090 --> 00:08:46.769 fight for like all the, all the things we went 00:08:46.769 --> 00:08:48.230 through this weekend, you can even add some. 00:08:48.309 --> 00:08:53.929 Yeah. And so kind of those two things were sitting 00:08:53.929 --> 00:08:57.149 brewing. Yeah. And it was actually the beard 00:08:57.149 --> 00:08:59.490 and I were sitting and he was talking about going 00:08:59.490 --> 00:09:04.450 out hiking and seeing this tree with these rings. 00:09:04.809 --> 00:09:07.629 And instantly it just kind of like fell like, 00:09:07.629 --> 00:09:10.779 what was it? Beard, like 20 -minute convo. And 00:09:10.779 --> 00:09:13.159 we walked out going, that's the collection. That's 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:17.700 it. And so the idea is, and it'll tease out pretty 00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:22.580 majorly over the weeks to come, but the way those 00:09:22.580 --> 00:09:25.179 rings are formed, we'll get into even that on 00:09:25.179 --> 00:09:28.840 the tree and how that ties in. And then also 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:33.220 the idea of... The fight is for meaning. Like 00:09:33.220 --> 00:09:35.320 you are in a fight every day. You're going to 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:38.059 ascribe meaning to, so an example would be like 00:09:38.059 --> 00:09:40.919 identity, right? Like so many people ascribe 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:44.320 meaning that doesn't belong to their identity, 00:09:44.500 --> 00:09:47.279 that it's actually a false identity. It's a counterfeit 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:51.919 God, right? To use Keller's language. But the 00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:55.139 idea that I can spend my whole life building 00:09:55.139 --> 00:09:59.139 this identity that is false because I'm getting 00:09:59.139 --> 00:10:02.110 meaning from it. Only to discover at the end 00:10:02.110 --> 00:10:06.330 of it, it didn't matter. How many people have 00:10:06.330 --> 00:10:12.669 you interacted with or even know personally that 00:10:12.669 --> 00:10:15.149 would be people you look at and go their whole 00:10:15.149 --> 00:10:17.789 life was built on their career? And when the 00:10:17.789 --> 00:10:20.370 career, when retirement came, they didn't know 00:10:20.370 --> 00:10:23.009 who they were. So they've ascribed some kind 00:10:23.009 --> 00:10:26.549 of meaning to this role that they play in life. 00:10:27.110 --> 00:10:29.769 And Solomon's just going, man. it's meaningless 00:10:29.769 --> 00:10:33.970 your role is meaningless right like and and that 00:10:33.970 --> 00:10:36.029 idea of meaningless we talked about this weekend 00:10:36.029 --> 00:10:39.809 uh but the vapor right so so we hear meaningless 00:10:39.809 --> 00:10:42.429 and we go oh well there's no zero value there's 00:10:42.429 --> 00:10:44.590 zero whatever right right and that's not what 00:10:44.590 --> 00:10:45.990 he's talking about he's talking about the concept 00:10:45.990 --> 00:10:49.350 of when i use that and try and grab yeah something 00:10:49.350 --> 00:10:52.850 from it it was never meant to be held right yeah 00:10:52.850 --> 00:10:57.559 so yeah i mean i was pretty floored sitting there 00:10:57.559 --> 00:10:59.200 kind of listening. Because again, I don't know 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:04.320 how many sermon collections that I've sat in 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:08.440 where Ecclesiastes is front and center for however 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:11.700 many weeks we're going to do this. Ecclesiastes 00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:15.059 kind of has this reputation of being pretty depressing. 00:11:16.100 --> 00:11:19.639 It's like in Bible reading plans, Leviticus feels... 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:22.419 Feels like a big stumbling block, right? You 00:11:22.419 --> 00:11:24.960 get the sacrifices. You get all of this discussion. 00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:29.559 And then you get to Ecclesiastes. You're like, 00:11:29.620 --> 00:11:32.460 what is happening right now? This makes no sense. 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:34.840 And we're going to spend some weeks on it, which 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:38.000 is exciting. You mentioned the problem of time. 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.240 I think we need to get into that. What do you 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:43.000 mean by when there's a problem with time? Well, 00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:45.240 let me come back to that. Somebody came up to 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:50.720 me who has worked in churches. And he referenced 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:54.600 that. He goes, Leviticus, Chronicles, Ecclesiastes, 00:11:54.620 --> 00:11:58.360 like they're all in the same. He goes, you could 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:00.580 have stepped one step back and gone Leviticus. 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:06.759 Yeah, the problem with time, I just, like the 00:12:06.759 --> 00:12:11.320 older I get maybe, and then the more I'm watching 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:17.149 people. And a great example would be we're driving 00:12:17.149 --> 00:12:20.250 to church Saturday. Flags are at half mast. And 00:12:20.250 --> 00:12:22.309 I'm like, why are flags at half mast? And then 00:12:22.309 --> 00:12:24.710 I discover it's for Dolly Parton. Right. Right. 00:12:25.409 --> 00:12:28.070 Well, Dolly Parton had a problem with time. Right. 00:12:28.149 --> 00:12:30.549 Like she couldn't control it. She couldn't bend 00:12:30.549 --> 00:12:33.529 it. She couldn't. It is going to be what it's 00:12:33.529 --> 00:12:36.470 going to be. Yes. Right. Like you only have 24 00:12:36.470 --> 00:12:39.309 hours in a day. Yep. You only have so many days 00:12:39.309 --> 00:12:42.929 in your life. And you don't get to control that. 00:12:43.070 --> 00:12:45.730 And so the problem becomes, I want to control 00:12:45.730 --> 00:12:50.450 time. And so whether that's slowing it down, 00:12:50.629 --> 00:12:54.610 whether that's denying what is to come, and what 00:12:54.610 --> 00:12:56.889 Ecclesiastes does so well with the problem of 00:12:56.889 --> 00:13:01.149 time is, it just goes, it is. Like this week, 00:13:01.230 --> 00:13:05.769 right? The sun chasing its tail. It just is. 00:13:05.950 --> 00:13:08.710 And it's going to do it whether you're here or 00:13:08.710 --> 00:13:11.330 not. Well, that creates a problem of time. That 00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:13.990 creates a problem of me wanting to control and 00:13:13.990 --> 00:13:17.710 going, yeah, but while I am here, my time is 00:13:17.710 --> 00:13:18.970 going to be different than everybody else's. 00:13:18.970 --> 00:13:25.970 No, it's not. And so I think with that, and it 00:13:25.970 --> 00:13:31.330 nods back to the just camping, that death is 00:13:31.330 --> 00:13:36.309 certain. And you will be forgotten. Time will 00:13:36.309 --> 00:13:39.490 march on because you do not have control of time. 00:13:40.129 --> 00:13:43.389 And we just don't like that. It doesn't sit well. 00:13:43.750 --> 00:13:47.070 And I think that word that gets translated meaningless 00:13:47.070 --> 00:13:49.750 in some other translations, they do it as futileness. 00:13:50.149 --> 00:13:53.230 There's a futility with it. And as I was sitting 00:13:53.230 --> 00:13:54.610 there kind of listening to your message this 00:13:54.610 --> 00:13:59.000 weekend, I was so struck. just so in youth right 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:01.320 now we we have just kind of closed out a collection 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:03.559 called summer detox okay and we've been kind 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:06.419 of sitting in romans 12 1 and 2 and so the first 00:14:06.419 --> 00:14:08.299 week we talked about the pattern of this world 00:14:08.299 --> 00:14:12.200 um and what i was struck by having taught through 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:14.259 that and kind of sitting there thinking about 00:14:14.259 --> 00:14:17.879 time and that problem how much the pattern of 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:21.320 this world is no you need to optimize your time 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:24.100 you need to make sure that your time is well 00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:26.620 worth it right like you it I'm sure it's not 00:14:26.620 --> 00:14:29.059 a thing anymore, but it felt like six months 00:14:29.059 --> 00:14:32.220 ago the big thing was morning routines. It just 00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:34.120 got more ridiculous and ridiculous because people 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:38.259 were waking up at 2, 3 a .m. I feel like Mark 00:14:38.259 --> 00:14:40.799 Wahlberg is the main guy with this. The dude 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:44.279 wakes up at 2, 15 a .m. Everybody's like, oh, 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.000 we need to be like Mark. Marky Mark is taking 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:51.039 a nap by 2 p .m. I don't have that time in my 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:54.139 schedule. That'd be amazing. So anyways, but 00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:56.740 just that optimization, like it was, I was struck 00:14:56.740 --> 00:15:02.000 by how much Ecclesiastes is so it's, it's like 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.419 optimized for our moment because we are, we are 00:15:05.419 --> 00:15:08.019 a people, we are a culture obsessed with time 00:15:08.019 --> 00:15:11.320 and putting it into its proper place. Yeah. Well, 00:15:11.379 --> 00:15:13.840 time's a commodity. Yeah. Right. Like time, time 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:16.960 is like anything else in my life. And we play 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:22.230 such a value on time. And yet, I mentioned it. 00:15:22.230 --> 00:15:23.929 I don't know if I said it in every gathering, 00:15:24.129 --> 00:15:27.590 but it just hits me that only here we will be 00:15:27.590 --> 00:15:32.769 locked in time. Only in this moment. We are creatures 00:15:32.769 --> 00:15:38.049 bound by time. It was created that way. So we're 00:15:38.049 --> 00:15:40.710 trying to understand and gain the perspective 00:15:40.710 --> 00:15:45.330 of a God who is not confined to time. So when 00:15:45.330 --> 00:15:49.000 you start to... look from that perspective yeah 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:52.059 no wonder we have a skewed view of i've got to 00:15:52.059 --> 00:15:55.299 optimize this thing that i'm locked inside of 00:15:55.299 --> 00:15:58.220 again back to control yeah i can control time 00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:02.600 to maximize it to get them and what happens is 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:04.460 most of those people end up really unhealthy 00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:07.379 or they have unrealistic rhythms to their life 00:16:07.379 --> 00:16:11.279 of taking an app at it too right like a siesta 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.179 yeah and and i think and i think the cultures 00:16:14.179 --> 00:16:18.009 what's interesting is Our Dominican Republic 00:16:18.009 --> 00:16:21.990 team go down this summer, and there was such 00:16:21.990 --> 00:16:26.629 a clash that had to do with time. Because we're 00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:28.970 there, and there's a schedule. You said we were 00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:33.389 starting at 8. It's now 8 .30. So internally, 00:16:33.750 --> 00:16:38.529 I would love it, but internally, it creates this 00:16:38.529 --> 00:16:40.870 angst of, wait, we should already be going. We're 00:16:40.870 --> 00:16:44.730 behind schedule. What does that even mean? right 00:16:44.730 --> 00:16:47.610 like we're behind the set time that we made right 00:16:47.610 --> 00:16:51.129 well that's weird right right like like we set 00:16:51.129 --> 00:16:53.389 this thing and now we're frustrated that we haven't 00:16:53.389 --> 00:16:56.330 kept this thing yeah and so we try and control 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:00.389 time in the sense of and then in that context 00:17:00.389 --> 00:17:03.370 we try to push our values of time and control 00:17:03.370 --> 00:17:06.730 and the dominion is like no we're fine yeah let's 00:17:06.730 --> 00:17:08.349 just hang out a little longer like there's no 00:17:08.349 --> 00:17:11.670 and so it created this interesting cultural clash 00:17:11.670 --> 00:17:14.549 yeah Because the value of time and the control 00:17:14.549 --> 00:17:17.269 of time was so much different. And the emphasis 00:17:17.269 --> 00:17:21.049 on relationships was so much higher, right? And 00:17:21.049 --> 00:17:25.230 versus culturally, our emphasis is on time. I 00:17:25.230 --> 00:17:27.269 gave you this long. Our relationship therefore 00:17:27.269 --> 00:17:31.710 ends for this time in this time. Versus there, 00:17:31.829 --> 00:17:33.950 it's, well, we're not done relating yet. We're 00:17:33.950 --> 00:17:36.369 not done. And we've been talking even as a church 00:17:36.369 --> 00:17:40.089 going, one of the things that is a hindrance 00:17:40.089 --> 00:17:43.059 to our growth in life groups is time. Because 00:17:43.059 --> 00:17:46.099 we talk about, hey, we're going to get together, 00:17:46.220 --> 00:17:49.799 but we're going to be done by this time. So you 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:51.920 get there and there's already a running clock 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:54.839 of what has to happen. And what's been interesting, 00:17:54.960 --> 00:18:00.839 some of where we're leaning in discovering this, 00:18:00.940 --> 00:18:03.299 I think we talked about on here, but the discipleship 00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:07.500 process, like how is somebody truly formed? But 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.039 what it has to do with relationships, it has 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:11.980 to do with community. So we've been doing these 00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:15.019 things called at the table. Yeah. And what's 00:18:15.019 --> 00:18:17.779 interesting is we just did one last week and 00:18:17.779 --> 00:18:23.079 we were there three, almost four hours. And I 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:24.880 don't know that there was a sense of the people 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:28.799 still there. Yeah. Other than it was late. Yeah. 00:18:29.420 --> 00:18:33.680 And just getting naturally tired. Yeah. I don't 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:35.119 think anybody was like, oh, we got to get out 00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:38.099 of here. It was like, man, we really should go. 00:18:38.619 --> 00:18:40.180 You know what I mean? Like we've kind of hit 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:45.799 that point where, but when was the last time 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:47.799 for me personally, when was the last time I sat 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:50.819 in my life group for that long? When did I sit 00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:54.559 around and instead life group is this thing that 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:58.079 I show up to and it's, it's marched on time. 00:18:58.099 --> 00:19:01.460 We only have so much allotted. Right. And, and 00:19:01.460 --> 00:19:04.180 again, you just go, are we missing something? 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:06.380 Asking questions that matter, right? Like, are 00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:09.779 we missing something? Yeah. within our formation 00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:14.299 as disciples because we put community into this 00:19:14.299 --> 00:19:17.980 block where it fits this is my community time 00:19:17.980 --> 00:19:20.079 yep this is my which goes back to optimization 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.819 right like this is my time for this my time for 00:19:22.819 --> 00:19:24.900 this my time for this my time for this yeah and 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:26.880 and everything is in order and if i do all those 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.160 things then therefore i will end up at this and 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.599 solomon just goes it doesn't work that way yeah 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.900 yeah so which is fascinating right and i and 00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:37.339 i think for those maybe listening or watching 00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:39.299 that are like, Oh my goodness, that sounds so 00:19:39.299 --> 00:19:41.200 chaotic. Why would you not have an end time? 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:46.019 Right. Like how, how dare you not tell me when 00:19:46.019 --> 00:19:48.559 this is done? Right. It's not, we're not saying 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.140 there's total anarchy with time. Why not? Well, 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:54.940 apparently why not? I mean, why not? Yeah. But 00:19:54.940 --> 00:19:57.440 what I'm saying is, is like, we're, we've gone 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:00.680 so far pendulum swing one way. What, what if, 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:04.650 what if the, question is how do we be present 00:20:04.650 --> 00:20:06.329 because we don't know how to be present anymore 00:20:06.329 --> 00:20:09.089 yeah and then that goes into the time thing right 00:20:09.089 --> 00:20:11.529 because for the people leaving at how whatever 00:20:11.529 --> 00:20:15.470 time they're actually listening to their body 00:20:15.470 --> 00:20:19.890 listening to their person of okay time wise like 00:20:19.890 --> 00:20:22.049 i i'm kind of at my limit of being present right 00:20:22.049 --> 00:20:24.569 now right and all of a sudden that's a different 00:20:24.569 --> 00:20:28.230 perspective on time than the hard we end at 9 00:20:28.230 --> 00:20:30.470 p .m right and there were some people that left 00:20:30.470 --> 00:20:32.670 the table because yeah it was appropriate for 00:20:32.670 --> 00:20:34.470 them to leave the table because of life situation 00:20:34.470 --> 00:20:39.950 or whatever right right like but i okay so so 00:20:39.950 --> 00:20:42.769 you want the anarchy no i don't want anarchy 00:20:42.769 --> 00:20:46.470 well maybe uh no i don't want anarchy but i i 00:20:46.470 --> 00:20:50.089 want us to challenge like i i just don't want 00:20:50.089 --> 00:20:53.309 us to accept things because they were given to 00:20:53.309 --> 00:20:56.980 us I believe that God allows us to wrestle with. 00:20:57.180 --> 00:20:59.940 So an example would be in my own life. Yeah. 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:03.640 God, I have 20 minutes right now to be present 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.980 with you this morning. That's all I got. Because 00:21:06.980 --> 00:21:08.240 you're on to the next thing. Because I'm on to 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:10.859 the next thing. Yeah. But how many times do I 00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:13.319 get into that 20 minutes and go, oh, I wish I 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:17.559 had another 20. But I have to end that moment 00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:20.700 because there is something else crunched up to. 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:25.490 Yeah. That has to keep rolling. And so I'm not 00:21:25.490 --> 00:21:27.430 saying that those things are wrong. I'm not saying 00:21:27.430 --> 00:21:30.549 that. But I just wonder if we're getting it wrong. 00:21:30.869 --> 00:21:36.369 I wonder if the pace is determining the presence. 00:21:37.890 --> 00:21:41.329 Well, the pace determining the presence. Which, 00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:43.809 I mean, that's a... Because I don't get to be 00:21:43.809 --> 00:21:48.250 present. No. Okay, so a different thing coming 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:53.289 from the pictures this weekend, right? I had 00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:56.650 to make a physical choice, and I have for ever 00:21:56.650 --> 00:22:00.670 since Beckham was born. On this day at this time, 00:22:00.789 --> 00:22:04.349 I will be here, and I will be fully present to 00:22:04.349 --> 00:22:07.630 whatever is happening. And a lot of times that 00:22:07.630 --> 00:22:10.450 is laying on the floor with trucks, like right 00:22:10.450 --> 00:22:14.950 now. Or this time it was we'd intentionally bought 00:22:14.950 --> 00:22:17.490 him something for the backyard, the little lawnmower. 00:22:18.369 --> 00:22:20.869 I'm going to be fully present. I'm not going 00:22:20.869 --> 00:22:24.640 to. be trying to do two things at once i'm not 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:27.079 going to try and yeah and it led to this moment 00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:30.039 of something i'll remember hopefully for a long 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:32.319 time right like hopefully it's one of those we 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:35.039 talk about core memories yeah core memories only 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:38.099 happen when i'm present and so that the idea 00:22:38.099 --> 00:22:43.880 of like this if i keep this pace and i try and 00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:47.079 squeeze that time in with beckham yeah i'm gonna 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.660 miss him one of the things as a grandparent that's 00:22:50.660 --> 00:22:53.789 been fascinating People always talk about as 00:22:53.789 --> 00:22:58.069 you get older, time moves faster. Okay. I think 00:22:58.069 --> 00:23:02.309 because it's marked by, like right now, when 00:23:02.309 --> 00:23:06.390 I get to see Beckham, it's not every day. Right. 00:23:06.450 --> 00:23:10.309 So he has grown sometimes like he's cutting new 00:23:10.309 --> 00:23:12.950 teeth, right? Like from the last time I saw the 00:23:12.950 --> 00:23:18.009 guy. Right. So that naturally passes time quicker. 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:20.660 Right? Like there's a passage of time. Whereas 00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:22.319 when you're the parent and you're in it, it's 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.740 like, oh my gosh, like we're not going to make 00:23:24.740 --> 00:23:27.759 it through the teething. Right? Yes. He's losing 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:31.440 his mind. I have thought those thoughts. I'm 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.000 guilty. But on the grandparent side, the passage 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:37.970 of time has happened. Yeah. And so I think that's 00:23:37.970 --> 00:23:39.809 some of that tendency because I keep catching 00:23:39.809 --> 00:23:42.269 myself going, man, I can't believe he's almost 00:23:42.269 --> 00:23:45.130 two. I can't believe we're trucking towards two 00:23:45.130 --> 00:23:47.950 years old. Well, your daughter, Bailey, she had 00:23:47.950 --> 00:23:51.450 sent something that her phone had created through 00:23:51.450 --> 00:23:53.670 photos or whatever. It had been Beckham through 00:23:53.670 --> 00:23:56.150 the years or something. And she sent it to Rye. 00:23:56.390 --> 00:23:58.910 And I just was like, because there was that picture 00:23:58.910 --> 00:24:01.289 of him in the Steelers shirt. And I was like, 00:24:02.009 --> 00:24:06.559 he looked like that? It's crazy. It's nuts how 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.740 much he's changed, right? And I can think of 00:24:09.740 --> 00:24:15.960 in my own life how much if the problem is that 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:20.279 pace determines presence, there are moments, 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:22.940 there are days where I get home and I've run 00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:26.920 myself ragged and I have no capacity for presence. 00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:30.839 And so all of a sudden I'm on the couch absolutely 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:33.759 in the hurt box. because emotionally I poured 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:36.059 myself out today, that I don't have anything 00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:40.039 left for him. And that, you know, you wouldn't 00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:44.059 know that unless you're reflecting on how present 00:24:44.059 --> 00:24:47.059 am I right now. Yeah. Well, true story of yesterday. 00:24:49.220 --> 00:24:52.400 Teach all morning. Didn't get home until an hour 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:55.759 later than I should have. Okay. Ended up in conversations. 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:02.400 Got home. Ended up. Cindy's family's with us 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.140 right now. Her aunt Sharon's with us. Ended up 00:25:05.140 --> 00:25:09.440 doing something with Sharon. And by the time 00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.960 I had sat, caught my breath, ate my lunch. Yep. 00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:15.500 Like we're well into late afternoon at this point. 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.359 Yep. And we had the fantasy football draft coming, 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:23.579 right? Like this at a set time. Yep. I'm like, 00:25:23.619 --> 00:25:27.119 I have done zero. I like thought has gone into 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:28.619 it. I probably should at least do something. 00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:32.079 Yeah. Right. So I now pull out my laptop to do 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:35.220 that, and Farrah comes and sits next to me and 00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:37.279 wants to show me something. I had zero ability 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:39.839 to be present with her, but it had to do with 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.519 the pace I've run all day, and now I'm still 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.740 running towards this thing. One thought on passage 00:25:45.740 --> 00:25:51.059 of time. When the girls went to college, you're 00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:53.059 always geared towards their next time coming 00:25:53.059 --> 00:25:57.210 home. So you're living. You're living in the 00:25:57.210 --> 00:26:00.369 future, in the present. So time is passing faster 00:26:00.369 --> 00:26:03.569 because you're looking forward to their return 00:26:03.569 --> 00:26:06.970 back. Whether that be Thanksgiving or a weekend 00:26:06.970 --> 00:26:09.289 back or whatever. Versus when they're home and 00:26:09.289 --> 00:26:11.710 you're in the day -to -day, you might be doing 00:26:11.710 --> 00:26:14.829 that with a vacation. Yeah. But the whole rhythm 00:26:14.829 --> 00:26:17.230 of life when they went to college became that. 00:26:17.509 --> 00:26:21.170 And the whole rhythm of life right now is when 00:26:21.170 --> 00:26:23.779 do we get to go see Jake and Sierra? Right. When 00:26:23.779 --> 00:26:25.839 are we getting to hang out with you guys? When 00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.500 are we getting to? So it becomes this like almost 00:26:29.500 --> 00:26:34.799 you're moving blocks of time to get to the next 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.240 thing that you're looking forward to, right? 00:26:37.299 --> 00:26:41.660 Like that matters. Yeah. Or that carries relational 00:26:41.660 --> 00:26:44.380 meaning to it. Right. Well, and it seems like 00:26:44.380 --> 00:26:49.160 the problem of time, if we're to return to that, 00:26:49.220 --> 00:26:52.000 it's not that we're finite creatures. It's not 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.259 that we're outside of time. It's that we don't 00:26:54.259 --> 00:26:58.420 manage our time well. We are disordered beings. 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.420 Okay, so is that we are disordered beings. I 00:27:02.420 --> 00:27:07.420 agree. But when I hear we don't manage what I 00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:10.839 hear in my head or see as a book sitting on my 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:13.079 shelf that tells me how to manage my time better. 00:27:13.299 --> 00:27:16.380 Oh, yeah. So at what point is that just optimizing? 00:27:16.819 --> 00:27:19.119 No, I think it's what's the guiding philosophy? 00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:23.299 Like if there's an overarching philosophy, if 00:27:23.299 --> 00:27:25.740 I were to put, go back to the founder of this 00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:29.160 world language, if I were to give an overarching 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:33.000 title to the way we in the West, specifically 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.339 in North America, look at time, it is to optimize. 00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:40.200 Whereas what you've just told me is that presence 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:44.519 need to dictate time. So all of a sudden, if 00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:47.960 presence, which frankly feels very biblical. 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.099 Right. Like the entire incarnation narrative 00:27:52.099 --> 00:27:55.460 is the God of the universe who steps, who is 00:27:55.460 --> 00:27:59.720 outside of time, steps into our time, subjects 00:27:59.720 --> 00:28:02.420 himself to the passing of time. It's good. All 00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:05.960 for our benefit. Right. And his, in every story, 00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:09.160 in every situation you see Jesus, he is present. 00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:12.900 Right. There's not even, even when I think of 00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:15.619 the woman who had been bleeding for 10 years 00:28:15.619 --> 00:28:18.990 or whatever. Right. He's on his way. to something 00:28:18.990 --> 00:28:22.849 else and yet there's an interruption and all 00:28:22.849 --> 00:28:24.690 of a sudden he's fully present with that woman 00:28:24.690 --> 00:28:28.230 yeah right embarrassingly so yeah where the disciples 00:28:28.230 --> 00:28:30.470 are like what are we doing like you're wasting 00:28:30.470 --> 00:28:33.529 time what jesus there's a crowd of thousands 00:28:33.529 --> 00:28:35.109 around you what do you mean somebody touched 00:28:35.109 --> 00:28:39.470 your cloak like right yeah it's lazarus too right 00:28:39.470 --> 00:28:42.609 yeah like hey he's sick and he stays longer yeah 00:28:42.609 --> 00:28:45.190 right like because he's he's present where he 00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:48.109 is. Yeah. And he doesn't allow the urgency of 00:28:48.109 --> 00:28:51.190 Lazarus. Yeah. Um, even though, you know, he's 00:28:51.190 --> 00:28:53.730 going to raise him like, yeah. And I think, I 00:28:53.730 --> 00:28:58.190 think that's the, it feels very biblical. Yeah. 00:28:58.289 --> 00:29:02.150 Um, because God is present. Right. And, and I 00:29:02.150 --> 00:29:05.910 think the desire for God was to always be present 00:29:05.910 --> 00:29:08.089 with his people. Yeah. To be in the day to day. 00:29:08.150 --> 00:29:11.009 And, and so much so that it, it moved from a 00:29:11.009 --> 00:29:13.309 temple to now you are the temple, right? Like 00:29:13.309 --> 00:29:18.500 move, Where, okay, now because I've made you 00:29:18.500 --> 00:29:21.700 new, I can put the Holy Spirit into you, right? 00:29:21.819 --> 00:29:26.079 And then you get to the end of it, and it's God 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:28.400 with his people. That's what eternity is, right? 00:29:28.579 --> 00:29:31.380 And we may make it, well, I'll leave that for 00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:36.059 this weekend. So, yeah, I think even the walking 00:29:36.059 --> 00:29:38.680 pace still gets me. He never rode a horse. And 00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:40.880 the only time we know that he was on an animal 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:44.980 is a donkey, right? And donkeys don't move fast, 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.559 to my knowledge. I don't think so. I mean, you've 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:50.039 had a lot more experience with them recently. 00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:55.779 Recently. I didn't see any moving fast. There's 00:29:55.779 --> 00:29:59.880 a meandering, not a purpose. Yeah. And I think 00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:06.740 with Jesus, I don't remember who said it this 00:30:06.740 --> 00:30:08.500 week. It was in teaching. It might have been 00:30:08.500 --> 00:30:11.920 Pastor Ben. But the idea of Satan wanting to 00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:14.299 keep you busy. Like if you can't make your sin, 00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:16.500 then he'll just keep you busy. He'll just keep 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:18.460 you distracted. He'll just keep you going. And 00:30:18.460 --> 00:30:20.759 in this conversation, he'll just keep your pace 00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:23.299 at such that it's not manageable. And sooner 00:30:23.299 --> 00:30:26.579 or later, your physical body breaks down or you 00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:28.380 wake up 40 years from now and go, where'd my 00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:32.400 life go? And so I think there's even that truth 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:35.440 to it, that you didn't get a feeling in reading. 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:37.779 Even though Jesus is always going somewhere, 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:40.119 you didn't get a feeling of there was a busyness 00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:43.559 to it. Yes. There's an unhurriedness. Yeah. There's 00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:50.480 a presence. He's not. Okay. And maybe think about 00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:55.779 it this way. He only had 33 years. If God told 00:30:55.779 --> 00:30:57.539 me at the beginning of my life, I only have 33 00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:00.779 years. Yeah. I'm maximizing those babies. Right. 00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:03.000 Talk about optimize. Because 33 years, you could 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.579 still be the top of your game in the soccer league, 00:31:06.660 --> 00:31:08.579 the basketball league, the football league, right? 00:31:08.740 --> 00:31:12.000 Yeah. So you're going to really. You're going 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.519 to suck the marrow out of life, right? Absolutely. 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:17.599 And you don't see that. No. You don't see that. 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.500 You see him the night before sitting at a table 00:31:21.500 --> 00:31:25.359 having a meal with his friends. And not even 00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:30.119 sharing that meal with an enemy. Right? Like, 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.420 it's even that far. An enemy, a betrayer, a bunch 00:31:34.420 --> 00:31:36.099 of people that are going to scatter. Yeah, somebody 00:31:36.099 --> 00:31:38.460 who's going to deny him three times, not have 00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:41.279 his back. He's just sitting at the table. It's 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:43.460 crazy. You want more coffee? Yeah, you should 00:31:43.460 --> 00:31:45.900 definitely pour more coffee. Yeah. I don't hear 00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:49.000 it. You can have it. No, you... There's not much. 00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:50.640 You should. That's a little scary. It's all right. 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:56.740 Yeah, you got me thinking. There's a... I can't 00:31:56.740 --> 00:32:00.160 remember the name of the book. It might be virtue 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.619 after vice. I can't remember. So essentially 00:32:03.619 --> 00:32:06.160 what part of the argument of the book, it's looking 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:11.220 at kind of the traditional seven deadly sins. 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:15.099 So seven vices and their companion virtues essentially. 00:32:15.259 --> 00:32:18.140 Okay. But one of the things that I thought was 00:32:18.140 --> 00:32:21.319 so fascinating was his description of sloth. 00:32:21.339 --> 00:32:24.539 Okay. So sloth, we often think of laziness, right? 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:27.319 The inability to do something. And one of the 00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:30.640 big claims he made about sloth is he actually 00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:33.759 thinks North America, United States specifically, 00:32:33.980 --> 00:32:37.700 if you were to categorize the sin they suffer 00:32:37.700 --> 00:32:41.839 from, we suffer from, it is sloth. Because we 00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:44.400 are so busy that we don't actually do anything. 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:48.140 Oh, wow. Yeah, and it's stuck with me. It's such 00:32:48.140 --> 00:32:53.920 a, because, oh my goodness. Do I probably buy 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:57.339 into the fact that if my schedule was full, I 00:32:57.339 --> 00:32:59.339 will feel more satisfied at the end of the day 00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:03.259 with my time? Yeah. And yet, again, this is like 00:33:03.259 --> 00:33:08.019 a constant circle. And okay, Solomon. Yeah. You're 00:33:08.019 --> 00:33:12.140 a phrase. Yeah. Right? You would be more satisfied 00:33:12.140 --> 00:33:13.779 with your time? Is that what you said? Yeah. 00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:16.660 I would be satisfied with my day. Satisfied with 00:33:16.660 --> 00:33:19.769 your day because your time was... Full. Full. 00:33:19.769 --> 00:33:21.769 Yeah. My schedule was full. And Solomon would 00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:26.910 say. Meaningless. Vanity. Futility. But isn't 00:33:26.910 --> 00:33:29.710 it interesting that it's like. Yeah. We don't 00:33:29.710 --> 00:33:32.329 think that way. No. You get a gold star. Yeah. 00:33:32.450 --> 00:33:36.410 Right. Like your hours were maximized. Your day 00:33:36.410 --> 00:33:39.930 was full. Yeah. Our badge of honor is, hey, how 00:33:39.930 --> 00:33:41.650 are you doing today? I did this much. Oh man, 00:33:41.670 --> 00:33:44.589 so busy. Yep. So busy. Here I go. Good, but it's 00:33:44.589 --> 00:33:47.490 busy. Yeah. Right. Like it's this thing that 00:33:47.490 --> 00:33:50.529 it's like. Oh, you must be gone somewhere then. 00:33:50.609 --> 00:33:52.549 You must be moving and shaking. You must be. 00:33:52.869 --> 00:33:54.730 When was the last time you met somebody and they 00:33:54.730 --> 00:34:00.049 go, I took a week off work and was just present. 00:34:00.210 --> 00:34:02.410 Yeah. Yeah. We'd be like, well, what did you 00:34:02.410 --> 00:34:05.130 do? No, that was it. I was just present. Yeah. 00:34:05.170 --> 00:34:09.150 Present with my house. Yeah. Enjoyed my refrigerator 00:34:09.150 --> 00:34:13.489 with food in it. Yeah. Yeah. I sat on my porch. 00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:19.340 I even swung. Yeah. Right? I just was present. 00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:22.420 I watched the clouds move by. Yeah. We look at 00:34:22.420 --> 00:34:24.480 that and go, you had a week off and you didn't 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:29.300 go on vacation? Right? What did you do? Or you 00:34:29.300 --> 00:34:34.360 go on vacation and now it's probably ask Claude 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:38.280 or whatever, chat GBT, like, hey, can you optimize? 00:34:38.460 --> 00:34:40.659 What should I go see? I'm only there for this 00:34:40.659 --> 00:34:43.619 many days. What is the most I can get out of 00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:48.019 my trip? Yeah. And we, versus going, man, I'm 00:34:48.019 --> 00:34:50.300 going to go and I'm just going to be present. 00:34:51.500 --> 00:34:55.079 I'm just going to, you're not going to go do 00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:58.079 this, go do that. And how many, I mean, I've 00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:00.480 been there. I'm sure many people listening have 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:04.639 been there where it's, I went to this place and 00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:07.139 I just did one thing after another, after another, 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:09.079 after another. And I got home and went. Need 00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:11.800 a vacation from the vacation. Yeah. I need to 00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:14.199 slow down now. Yeah. And it's like, well, wait. 00:35:14.429 --> 00:35:16.469 Isn't that the point of a vague? And Solomon 00:35:16.469 --> 00:35:19.809 would just go. Yeah. So meaningless. Yeah. Yeah. 00:35:19.989 --> 00:35:22.449 Well, and I even think it's so funny you bring 00:35:22.449 --> 00:35:26.570 up, well, just as an aside, my mother calls Chad 00:35:26.570 --> 00:35:30.730 GPT, Chad now. Chad. Yes. Chad. Oh, Chad. And 00:35:30.730 --> 00:35:34.230 Chad has been helping her redesign and decorate 00:35:34.230 --> 00:35:38.010 the house is what I heard. But it was so funny 00:35:38.010 --> 00:35:40.630 because as I was talking to her and now we're 00:35:40.630 --> 00:35:42.030 talking about presence and everything like that. 00:35:42.579 --> 00:35:47.019 It's interesting to me because there is a style 00:35:47.019 --> 00:35:51.119 of presence that AI is going to want you to achieve. 00:35:51.340 --> 00:35:53.440 For example, we're going to New York in a few 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:56.380 weeks. I know Ryland's done it. I know I've looked 00:35:56.380 --> 00:35:58.420 at it. It's like, what are the best things to 00:35:58.420 --> 00:36:02.480 do in New York? What it's doing is, and I think 00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.639 it's so devious, it is selling you a human -style 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:11.079 level of presence in a city that's not actually 00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:14.869 human. it's not even like helpful for you because 00:36:14.869 --> 00:36:17.710 the style of presence it's giving you is just 00:36:17.710 --> 00:36:20.849 this banal kind of like, oh, I've scraped the 00:36:20.849 --> 00:36:22.550 internet and these seem to be good things to 00:36:22.550 --> 00:36:25.449 do. As opposed to - Because it's never experienced 00:36:25.449 --> 00:36:28.630 it. Correct. Right. So it's telling you, no, 00:36:28.690 --> 00:36:31.289 you should do this. Yeah. And it says it positively. 00:36:31.289 --> 00:36:34.329 But it has no clue. Yeah, it says it really. 00:36:34.469 --> 00:36:37.369 Those are great questions, Noah. I'm so excited 00:36:37.369 --> 00:36:40.849 for your trip. No, but that's all of a sudden, 00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:44.739 That guide, all of a sudden that guide for presence 00:36:44.739 --> 00:36:48.739 in that particular moment is not even human. 00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:53.519 Yeah. Right? And so no wonder we are wrestling 00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:57.400 with like, oh man, I can't make my music, whatever. 00:36:57.539 --> 00:37:00.239 Right? We get mad about that. Yeah. But then 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:02.579 if it were to optimize our schedule, optimize 00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:05.739 our calendar, that's okay. Yeah. Or my fantasy 00:37:05.739 --> 00:37:07.880 football draft. Or your fantasy football draft. 00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:12.500 Which, true story, I asked Claude. Hey, what's 00:37:12.500 --> 00:37:15.800 the best strategy for a salary cap draft? Yeah. 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:18.619 Yeah. And it laid it out for me. And then it 00:37:18.619 --> 00:37:20.860 goes, would you like me to create a list of the 00:37:20.860 --> 00:37:22.880 players and what tier they should go and how 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:26.460 much you should pay? Yes, I would. Right. I drafted 00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:28.059 Brandon Aubrey in the first round, so I feel 00:37:28.059 --> 00:37:31.380 pretty good. He's a kicker. Yeah. Mark my words, 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.260 people. You should feel good. The league win 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:36.940 is coming this year. You should feel good. But 00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:39.440 I do think it's interesting, and it's another 00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:43.099 topic for another day, but the difference is 00:37:43.099 --> 00:37:46.440 sitting with somebody who's been to New York, 00:37:46.579 --> 00:37:50.800 and they go, man, you got to. And you get to 00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:53.699 ask them, well, why should I? Oh, man, the smell. 00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:57.539 When you walk in the place, just the smell alone 00:37:57.539 --> 00:38:01.099 or the feel of nostalgia, right? Whatever it 00:38:01.099 --> 00:38:04.420 happens to be. Or I got to go see this play and 00:38:04.420 --> 00:38:10.039 it moved me and has marked me. Yeah. And man, 00:38:10.099 --> 00:38:13.599 I would recommend it for you. And yes, Claude 00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:15.860 is pulling that from reviews of people. Yeah. 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:18.079 Right? Or the internet, whatever. Yeah. But then 00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:20.519 speaking to you like, I've been there and done 00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:23.059 that versus the presence to sit with someone. 00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:24.699 And that's what we're losing. Yeah. That's what 00:38:24.699 --> 00:38:26.940 we're losing. We're not finding the person who. 00:38:28.070 --> 00:38:30.789 And this will probably play into this week some, 00:38:30.889 --> 00:38:33.110 but we're not finding the person who has been 00:38:33.110 --> 00:38:35.849 there and done that. That's why Solomon is so 00:38:35.849 --> 00:38:39.429 good. He had everything. Every experience you 00:38:39.429 --> 00:38:41.969 could want, every resource you could want, he's 00:38:41.969 --> 00:38:46.030 got them. And he's the guy telling you, I wouldn't 00:38:46.030 --> 00:38:49.269 do that. And yet here we are doing the opposite. 00:38:49.949 --> 00:38:54.889 And I think back to the, so obviously we know 00:38:54.889 --> 00:38:59.309 where we're going in a couple of weeks. we're 00:38:59.309 --> 00:39:03.050 watching this YouTube video and it's somebody 00:39:03.050 --> 00:39:06.030 like, I've had the best burgers in forever, right? 00:39:06.150 --> 00:39:08.829 Yeah. Well, one of them is in New York. Okay. 00:39:09.230 --> 00:39:14.130 And we're watching it, but we're listening to 00:39:14.130 --> 00:39:16.690 the guy who created it and we're listening to 00:39:16.690 --> 00:39:21.250 his love and his passion for burgers. and specifically 00:39:21.250 --> 00:39:24.010 like the history he knows the history of the 00:39:24.010 --> 00:39:26.030 burger and he knows that and this is why i created 00:39:26.030 --> 00:39:28.590 that the way i did yeah and and it's like the 00:39:28.590 --> 00:39:33.250 most yeah like simple burger on the and we're 00:39:33.250 --> 00:39:35.889 like we have to go yeah because you're living 00:39:35.889 --> 00:39:38.550 it through another experience right versus a 00:39:38.550 --> 00:39:41.289 review that got so many stars or or whatever 00:39:41.289 --> 00:39:43.469 this is like i'm hearing the person that created 00:39:43.469 --> 00:39:46.590 them i go i want to experience that you're here 00:39:46.590 --> 00:39:49.539 you're hearing a coherent story yeah Right? And 00:39:49.539 --> 00:39:52.460 a story that has meaning. Yeah. And it seems 00:39:52.460 --> 00:39:54.719 like - And his life has been given to this. Yeah. 00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:57.900 Right? And so the idea then, I want to experience 00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:00.440 the walking in and smelling because he talked 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:03.679 about the smell. He talked about watching them 00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:07.440 grill and you can stand, like the way the restaurant's 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.599 set up, you can stand and be there and be present 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.059 and part of the cooking. And you just go, that's 00:40:13.059 --> 00:40:16.289 so different than - Right. I received this somewhere 00:40:16.289 --> 00:40:21.449 else. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. It feels like, yeah, 00:40:21.510 --> 00:40:24.110 there's just that fight for meaning. There it 00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:29.010 is. Beard, how are we doing on? Dude, I feel 00:40:29.010 --> 00:40:31.150 like. Look at you go. I feel like we just hit 00:40:31.150 --> 00:40:37.289 that so well. Anything else that feels significant 00:40:37.289 --> 00:40:39.690 that you just didn't get the chance to say this 00:40:39.690 --> 00:40:42.869 weekend that you're like, we need to talk about? 00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:45.079 this conversation i feel like i got to say a 00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:49.579 lot this weekend you did yeah yeah and it's guided 00:40:49.579 --> 00:40:52.639 41 minutes of our conversation with a little 00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.079 bit of weather uh i i would say this for people 00:40:55.079 --> 00:41:00.800 who are still listening uh man read ecclesiastes 00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.519 as we go through this like read it for yourself 00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.599 yeah um i wouldn't take the whole book at once 00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:10.880 i mean you could yeah um but i just read it until 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:14.159 something stands out and then sit on it And I 00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:17.219 think there's such value to the just sitting 00:41:17.219 --> 00:41:24.079 and going, where am I in trying to gain meaning 00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:26.420 from what he's just told me there is no meaning? 00:41:26.699 --> 00:41:29.820 Where am I seeking? Like you hit chapter two 00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:35.719 and chapter two is pleasure, right? And accomplishment. 00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:39.940 And you just go, he intended to look for good. 00:41:41.170 --> 00:41:43.989 Or am I looking for good in something that can't, 00:41:43.989 --> 00:41:46.010 it's not going to be there, right? And so I just 00:41:46.010 --> 00:41:48.789 think that would be my encouragement is to kind 00:41:48.789 --> 00:41:52.230 of real -time read it as we're going through 00:41:52.230 --> 00:41:54.809 it and just kind of meditate and just sit and 00:41:54.809 --> 00:41:58.170 go, okay, God, would you highlight for me where 00:41:58.170 --> 00:42:01.469 I'm missing this? Yeah, and just to be clear, 00:42:01.530 --> 00:42:03.210 that's exactly what we're doing right now, right? 00:42:03.269 --> 00:42:06.369 Like we've read Ecclesiastes and all of this 00:42:06.369 --> 00:42:10.309 conversation about what, maybe the mirror we're 00:42:10.309 --> 00:42:12.349 getting from the pattern of this world versus 00:42:12.349 --> 00:42:15.289 what Ecclesiastes, what Solomon's calling us 00:42:15.289 --> 00:42:18.230 to, hey, futility, hello, this isn't working. 00:42:18.349 --> 00:42:21.469 That's all coming from encountering scripture 00:42:21.469 --> 00:42:24.469 and God using scripture to speak. And because 00:42:24.469 --> 00:42:27.809 we have this view of scripture, we believe every 00:42:27.809 --> 00:42:32.070 single word is intentional and important. Even 00:42:32.070 --> 00:42:37.289 the long list of this person, beget this person, 00:42:37.329 --> 00:42:39.809 all of that. Every single point of scripture 00:42:39.809 --> 00:42:43.070 has meaning and has an importance for us. And 00:42:43.070 --> 00:42:47.809 again, something as archaic and overlooked as 00:42:47.809 --> 00:42:50.289 Ecclesiastes can breathe into these conversations 00:42:50.289 --> 00:42:53.170 so profoundly when we put it into that context. 00:42:53.690 --> 00:42:58.750 Yeah. And you follow that up with looking at 00:42:58.750 --> 00:43:03.809 the current state of life. Yep. And if happiness 00:43:03.809 --> 00:43:06.489 is the goal, then we ain't doing very well. Yeah. 00:43:06.809 --> 00:43:10.369 Like depression is higher than ever. So yet we're 00:43:10.369 --> 00:43:13.030 richer than ever. Yet we have more toys than 00:43:13.030 --> 00:43:15.610 ever. Yet we have more experiences than ever. 00:43:15.769 --> 00:43:20.030 We have more. So we have more, but we actually 00:43:20.030 --> 00:43:23.349 have less. Something's got to be off. And I think 00:43:23.349 --> 00:43:27.789 Ecclesiastes is a word into that that is helpful 00:43:27.789 --> 00:43:31.369 to navigate. What does life look like? Yeah, 00:43:31.389 --> 00:43:35.679 I love it. Oh man, that's really helpful. Y 'all, 00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:37.519 I hope you're still here. If you are, well done. 00:43:39.340 --> 00:43:40.980 Realize we haven't done like the end of the podcast 00:43:40.980 --> 00:43:44.159 club in a bit. So if you've made it. You were 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.079 really going to do that, huh? I don't know. You've 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:47.780 made it. You've made it to the end of the podcast. 00:43:47.900 --> 00:43:50.099 You've made it to the end of the podcast. Although 00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:53.199 the conversation continues on. Beard, do we need 00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:59.289 a sound for that? He's shaking his head. Yeah, 00:43:59.309 --> 00:44:01.329 he did not like that. He did not like that. That's 00:44:01.329 --> 00:44:06.130 why we did it. I hope you feel encouraged today. 00:44:06.269 --> 00:44:09.050 I hope the conversation has been meaningful to 00:44:09.050 --> 00:44:11.869 you, especially because I can, I'll speak for 00:44:11.869 --> 00:44:14.409 myself. I'm sure you can chime in, but it's meaningful 00:44:14.409 --> 00:44:17.110 for me getting to have these conversations because 00:44:17.110 --> 00:44:20.190 I walk away. Like, for example, I got to give 00:44:20.190 --> 00:44:22.530 the staff Devo on Wednesday. I'm going in a completely 00:44:22.530 --> 00:44:24.429 different direction now. So it'll be great. Awesome. 00:44:24.570 --> 00:44:26.909 Yeah. Can't wait. Yeah. Family, we love you. 00:44:26.969 --> 00:44:29.949 We hope we'll see you pretty soon. Bye, y 'all. 00:44:30.110 --> 00:44:30.650 Love you.