WEBVTT 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:08.080 Welcome, everybody, to the Heights Edited Podcast. 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:14.259 I don't remember the intro exactly. As far as 00:00:14.259 --> 00:00:17.320 I understand it, it's a podcast about real conversations, 00:00:17.739 --> 00:00:20.739 real life. You nailed it. Yeah. And we're here. 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:24.579 Faith, real life, and something else. Yeah. I 00:00:24.579 --> 00:00:26.859 think that's what it is. What's the other? I 00:00:26.859 --> 00:00:28.300 don't know. Do you remember the other beard? 00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:32.659 Wow. None of us remember it. Okay. Faith in real 00:00:32.659 --> 00:00:34.579 life. That's what it is. That's where we are. 00:00:35.020 --> 00:00:40.619 I'm joined by LP. No. Not LP. I'm just John, 00:00:40.740 --> 00:00:44.820 man. And I am the egret. You are the egret, apparently, 00:00:44.899 --> 00:00:49.539 which I don't know about that. Okay. I would 00:00:49.539 --> 00:00:52.460 be really curious how many people know what an 00:00:52.460 --> 00:00:55.219 egret is. Probably not very many people. Yeah. 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:57.820 I didn't know what it was until my daughter pointed 00:00:57.820 --> 00:01:00.200 it out to me. Well, and then it's the best card 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:04.319 in the Wingspan game. Which, if you haven't played 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:07.219 Wingspan, side note, we are sponsored by Wingspan, 00:01:07.299 --> 00:01:09.260 so please go buy the game, play the game. No, 00:01:09.379 --> 00:01:10.760 we're not. We're not really, but it's a great 00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:12.060 game. But you should go get it. It's a great 00:01:12.060 --> 00:01:15.099 game. We're also joined by the Beard, but we're 00:01:15.099 --> 00:01:18.579 also joined as well by this single -origin Kenyan, 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:22.159 as far as I understand it, from Legacy Coffee 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:26.200 Roasters? No. Revolution Coffee Roasters. In 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:29.590 Carlsbad. In Carlsbad. So we're going to taste 00:01:29.590 --> 00:01:31.209 it. Single origin? Yes. What does that mean? 00:01:31.450 --> 00:01:34.590 It means it comes from one place. Okay. Sometimes 00:01:34.590 --> 00:01:36.930 coffees are blends from different places. Okay. 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:41.450 But here we have a single origin from Kenya. 00:01:41.650 --> 00:01:48.230 Okay. Yeah. That's not very much. Hold on. Oh, 00:01:48.230 --> 00:01:51.599 boy. There you go. All right. So we don't have 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:54.079 Oreos, but we have single origin. We have single 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:56.500 origin coffee. From Carlsbad. Well, I guess it's 00:01:56.500 --> 00:01:58.799 not from Carlsbad. They roasted it. Yeah. Big 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:01.599 thank you to the beard. Yeah. Well done making 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:03.879 it. So what should I be tasting? That's what 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:13.120 I need to know. Oh, boy. It's more acidic than 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:16.280 I thought it would be. Oh, see, I don't taste 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:18.139 that because I've just had Starbucks. So that's 00:02:18.139 --> 00:02:20.400 probably. So you got to like. go through this 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.580 cup and then retry it probably just to just to 00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:29.259 reset my palate yeah oh man yeah no it's good 00:02:29.259 --> 00:02:32.840 there's floral notes i don't know if i could 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:37.639 name the specific floral notes but it's it's 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:40.379 quite good i wonder how many people okay i don't 00:02:40.379 --> 00:02:44.099 know how we do this maybe dm the beard but we 00:02:44.099 --> 00:02:47.610 have access to the email how many people taste 00:02:47.610 --> 00:02:50.849 their coffee and go oh there's floral notes like 00:02:50.849 --> 00:02:52.969 what what percentage of people do you think are 00:02:52.969 --> 00:02:56.969 actually able more than 50 you think oh 100 yeah 00:02:56.969 --> 00:03:01.870 it's in this third wave of coffee 100 really 00:03:01.870 --> 00:03:09.509 oh yeah i think so i mean i i'm also 28 so this 00:03:09.509 --> 00:03:13.050 is this is your world and you are a coffee master 00:03:16.810 --> 00:03:21.150 Blueberries. I can taste blueberries. I'm right 00:03:21.150 --> 00:03:23.430 -hand dominant. This thing gets really in the 00:03:23.430 --> 00:03:26.229 way of this coffee situation. I can't lift up. 00:03:26.409 --> 00:03:28.210 You have to drink with your left hand. Okay, 00:03:28.250 --> 00:03:30.590 how many people drink with their left hand? Left 00:03:30.590 --> 00:03:33.590 hand and can taste the notes of the coffee. That's 00:03:33.590 --> 00:03:35.110 what I want to know. What percentage of people 00:03:35.110 --> 00:03:38.669 is that? It's a weaker body than I thought. For 00:03:38.669 --> 00:03:41.629 sure. Anyways, you know how we could destroy 00:03:41.629 --> 00:03:47.229 this coffee? Dunkin' Oreo. Dunkin' Oreo. wow 00:03:47.229 --> 00:03:52.069 i'm getting processed chocolate weird chemicals 00:03:52.069 --> 00:03:55.650 in my coffee uh so yeah so we started out with 00:03:55.650 --> 00:03:58.409 coffee never done that before yeah well and todd 00:03:58.409 --> 00:04:00.599 goes on sabbatical and look what happens Here 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.080 we go. It's coffee right now. We're here. Yeah, 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.400 it's excellent. We don't know the intro. We've 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:07.620 got coffee that tastes like blueberries and something 00:04:07.620 --> 00:04:11.419 floral. Todd, we need you, man. We're off the 00:04:11.419 --> 00:04:13.620 rails and we're five minutes in. It's going well 00:04:13.620 --> 00:04:17.459 at this point. Oh, man. Well, what's new with 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:20.220 you? Let's get a little check -in. Check -in 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:22.459 with me? What's new with me? I've been working 00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:26.399 in my backyard. Okay. So I have this plan in 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:29.899 place for... Like God gave an inspired vision. 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:34.379 And so trying to see that come to fruition, it's 00:04:34.379 --> 00:04:36.480 a lot of work. Yes. I can tell you that. It's 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.480 in your backyard. It's in my backyard. So, so 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:43.339 far it is putting a pad down of pavers. Okay. 00:04:43.860 --> 00:04:47.759 That's large enough to hold a decent amount of 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:50.720 people. Okay. And the thought is of putting a 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:54.569 table and having some. Um, I don't have a name 00:04:54.569 --> 00:04:56.629 for it yet, but there will be a name when, uh, 00:04:56.730 --> 00:04:58.550 you don't want to workshop any names right now. 00:04:58.550 --> 00:05:00.689 Not right now. Cause I workshopped it with the 00:05:00.689 --> 00:05:03.029 beer prior to this and he just smiled at me. 00:05:03.069 --> 00:05:05.709 So that tells me that where I'm at right now 00:05:05.709 --> 00:05:08.430 still needs to grow. So some evidence of the 00:05:08.430 --> 00:05:12.970 workshop. So, uh, yeah. And then, so next phase. 00:05:13.050 --> 00:05:15.110 So the phase of the pad is in next phase is a 00:05:15.110 --> 00:05:17.029 pizza oven. There you go. I've been watching 00:05:17.029 --> 00:05:20.029 videos on how to build pizza ovens. Okay. So 00:05:20.029 --> 00:05:23.519 it's intense. Oh, I can imagine. So we'll see. 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:26.180 We'll see what happens. What about you? I am, 00:05:26.180 --> 00:05:28.819 I'm literally this close. Like I probably have 00:05:28.819 --> 00:05:31.240 a couple more pages in my introduction, finishing 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:33.860 the introduction chapter one and chapter two 00:05:33.860 --> 00:05:37.040 of the dissertation to submit. Okay. Explain 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:39.720 to people what that is. Yeah. So I'm in a PhD 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:43.120 program with Dallas Theological Seminary. And 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:46.259 so one of the, the main thing you need to do 00:05:46.259 --> 00:05:48.259 to complete a PhD is you need to submit. It's 00:05:48.259 --> 00:05:50.689 called a dissertation. Some people call it a 00:05:50.689 --> 00:05:53.509 thesis. It's essentially your unique contribution 00:05:53.509 --> 00:05:57.230 to the scholarly literature. Now, just because 00:05:57.230 --> 00:05:59.209 we can and you're here and helping people understand 00:05:59.209 --> 00:06:03.350 who you are, how many languages did you learn 00:06:03.350 --> 00:06:07.569 at some level to be able to do the topic that 00:06:07.569 --> 00:06:09.569 you're doing to read the writers that you needed 00:06:09.569 --> 00:06:12.610 to write or read? So in my master's program, 00:06:12.850 --> 00:06:15.060 I had to learn Greek and Hebrew. That's kind 00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:18.100 of the mandatory thing at DTS. You have five 00:06:18.100 --> 00:06:19.939 semesters of Greek and four semesters of Hebrew. 00:06:20.139 --> 00:06:22.740 So if you're looking for punishment and pain, 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:26.959 DTS is great with the languages. And then on 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:29.699 top of that, in the PhD program during the summers, 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:31.620 you have two and a half years of coursework. 00:06:31.819 --> 00:06:33.920 And so in the summers during that coursework, 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:37.800 you learn French and German. And again, not necessarily 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:41.939 to speak. It's more to read. It's more to be 00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:45.870 aware of the languages. But yeah, so it's... 00:06:45.870 --> 00:06:48.970 And then my theologian that I'm kind of writing 00:06:48.970 --> 00:06:53.750 on, he's a French Roman Catholic. And so I would 00:06:53.750 --> 00:06:56.089 say about 50 % of his works are translated into 00:06:56.089 --> 00:06:58.629 English. I actually pre -ordered one that was 00:06:58.629 --> 00:07:01.850 being... It's supposed to release in August, 00:07:01.930 --> 00:07:05.089 which I'm very excited about. But there's a... 00:07:05.339 --> 00:07:07.319 publisher in paris that we're getting really 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:09.720 into the weeds here yeah they have like we're 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:12.420 way in the weeds yeah we have they have 55 volumes 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:15.060 of his works which i did to be fair i did ask 00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:17.920 55 volumes in french in french so my daughter's 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:19.660 excited because she's taking french in high school 00:07:19.660 --> 00:07:22.139 yes and we're doing it together basically she's 00:07:22.139 --> 00:07:25.079 like i'm gonna hit noah yeah so which is good 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:28.079 yeah which is good and i just think that the 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:30.360 reason for people to even hear that is just understand 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:31.959 a little better what you're up to what you're 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:35.720 doing and yeah and the amount of work I think 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:37.240 that's the part that's surprising to me because 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:40.779 you hear PhD and, you know, but to see beyond 00:07:40.779 --> 00:07:42.819 the inside of that and watching the amount of 00:07:42.819 --> 00:07:45.939 work you put into the dissertation, especially 00:07:45.939 --> 00:07:47.879 that, well, what you put in so far, but especially 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:51.519 now. Yeah. I mean, it's a hard, I can see why 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:55.160 people get to the point you are and life consumes 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:57.819 and takes over like the discipline. It is. Yeah. 00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:59.899 It is a war of attrition. Every day is a battle. 00:08:00.220 --> 00:08:02.360 Um, but I just, I'm really excited to get my 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:04.060 life back. That's really what's going on right 00:08:04.060 --> 00:08:07.759 now. Start running marathons. Yeah. I love school, 00:08:07.819 --> 00:08:10.660 but man, let's be done. So no, that's awesome. 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:12.720 Uh, you excited for football to start back up? 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:14.779 Yeah. I think we got preseason. Yeah. I'm starting 00:08:14.779 --> 00:08:17.660 to get handed. Uh, so there's a gentleman shout 00:08:17.660 --> 00:08:21.199 out turtle. Uh, he, uh, is on the safety team 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:24.579 at PV. He hands me. um, news on the Pittsburgh 00:08:24.579 --> 00:08:27.360 Steelers. No way. So he is an old time Steeler 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:29.899 fan. No, I didn't know that. Oh yeah. He's old 00:08:29.899 --> 00:08:32.919 time. Like he, he knows his Steeler history and 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:36.320 he was so frustrated with where we are or where 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.519 we were. And he handed me something on training 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:42.320 camp this week and how Mike McCarthy, he has, 00:08:42.379 --> 00:08:44.019 I don't remember if it was the essential six 00:08:44.019 --> 00:08:47.720 or something that he's implemented. And so turtle 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.980 turtles. Things are looking up. Yeah, but he 00:08:50.980 --> 00:08:53.940 hasn't experienced Mike McCarthy. I feel like. 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:55.720 Yeah, you're a Dallas fan. You got the baggage. 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.419 Yeah, I just have. But okay, is it Mike McCarthy 00:08:58.419 --> 00:09:01.179 or is it Jerry Jones? That's a great question. 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.240 I think you've experienced Jerry Jones. Yeah, 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:07.340 I think Jerry. Yeah, it's Jerry Jones. Because 00:09:07.340 --> 00:09:09.960 when I hear Mike McCarthy, like it's exciting. 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.080 Like he's coming in completely revamped what's 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:14.360 happening. Yeah, but he's still got Rodgers. 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:17.740 Hey, he won a Super Bowl 15 years ago. Come on, 00:09:17.740 --> 00:09:20.279 man. 15 years ago. Come on. Bring it back. Let's 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:22.259 roll it back. Roll it back. That's all I'm saying. 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:25.840 I was experiencing the drought in kind of sports 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:28.740 watching. Yeah. Like this. Yeah, the World Cup 00:09:28.740 --> 00:09:30.779 ended and it was like, I don't have anything. 00:09:30.860 --> 00:09:34.659 What else is there? Golf? Yeah. And I know baseball's 00:09:34.659 --> 00:09:37.799 in season. Baseball's rolling ahead. I think 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:40.000 my angels are awful. Yeah, but here's the problem 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:43.620 with baseball. When you play 182 games. Not every 00:09:43.620 --> 00:09:46.250 game is important. Who cares? It's like the NBA. 00:09:46.429 --> 00:09:50.389 NBA is the same problem. There's 20 games that 00:09:50.389 --> 00:09:52.110 the players know they don't have to show up to. 00:09:52.169 --> 00:09:54.970 So they don't. Nobody plays defense until the 00:09:54.970 --> 00:09:57.750 playoffs. And I'm like, man, you limit that to 00:09:57.750 --> 00:10:00.289 20 games, 40 games, and all of a sudden every 00:10:00.289 --> 00:10:03.110 game matters. It gets intense. Yeah. And they 00:10:03.110 --> 00:10:05.110 actually play. They actually do what they're 00:10:05.110 --> 00:10:07.889 paid for. And then the injuries go way down. 00:10:08.070 --> 00:10:10.330 Imagine if we roll into church and we're just 00:10:10.330 --> 00:10:14.440 like, eh, this is one of the 20 weekends. Are 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:17.639 you here? You're here? Good. Next weekend? Awesome. 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:19.759 Who knows? So there's this devotional I'm going 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:24.320 to read to you from... Can you imagine? Just 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.740 phone it in. Jeez. You heard it here first. That 00:10:27.740 --> 00:10:29.980 would be intense. Yeah. I mean, we wouldn't put 00:10:29.980 --> 00:10:32.120 up with it. No. People would be like, we out. 00:10:32.379 --> 00:10:35.279 No. Right? Because every weekend matters. Well, 00:10:35.299 --> 00:10:36.919 and I think there's something to the communal 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:39.000 element, right? There's something about gathering 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.460 together. Right. It's not about... When the purpose 00:10:41.460 --> 00:10:44.379 is so much higher. Yes. and and that's what it 00:10:44.379 --> 00:10:46.159 feels like when it comes to sports with long 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:48.320 seasons it feels like the purpose gets lost along 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:52.279 the way yes or if you know you're good enough 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:54.399 and you're already in yes then you're like me 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:56.759 yeah i mean it's kind of like f1 yes you watch 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:59.899 quali right like the guys that or top of the 00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:02.440 grid, they only have to go out once. Yep. They 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:04.620 sit out. The other guys are putting on the third 00:11:04.620 --> 00:11:07.100 set of new softs to try and just make it to the 00:11:07.100 --> 00:11:09.440 next round of... It's by Williams. Yeah. Yeah, 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:12.179 it is your Williams. They need more than new 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:15.559 softs. They need a lot. It's okay. You know, 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:17.980 we haven't necessarily done this on the pod before. 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:20.799 Yeah. But I had come across this article. Okay. 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:23.179 I thought it was kind of interesting and I wanted 00:11:23.179 --> 00:11:25.669 your take on it. I had some... thoughts on it. 00:11:26.389 --> 00:11:28.730 But essentially, this is an article written by 00:11:28.730 --> 00:11:32.450 Daniel Kunkel. I don't know if I'm saying it 00:11:32.450 --> 00:11:34.129 right. I don't know who that is. Yeah, it's okay. 00:11:34.309 --> 00:11:37.389 Do you know who that is? No, I don't. I didn't 00:11:37.389 --> 00:11:40.009 know who you were saying that. I was hoping you... 00:11:40.009 --> 00:11:44.470 I don't know. It was in Christianity Today. How 00:11:44.470 --> 00:11:46.230 do we feel about Christianity Today? Is that 00:11:46.230 --> 00:11:48.830 a hot take I can ask for? How do we feel about 00:11:48.830 --> 00:11:52.899 Christianity Today? It's a source of news. Okay. 00:11:52.940 --> 00:11:55.360 Yeah. I mean, Christianity Today has a storied 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:57.240 history. The only reason this is on my mind is 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:59.759 because I just wrote this really long article 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:03.080 about this. But no, Christianity Today has been 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:05.759 a pretty big staple of the evangelical movement 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.460 in America for a while. It's probably not as 00:12:09.460 --> 00:12:12.700 relevant as it used to be just because digital 00:12:12.700 --> 00:12:17.399 media. But with that being said, he's a PhD candidate 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.480 over in the East Coast at Fordham University. 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:24.840 Um, he's also a pastor and he wrote an article 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.500 titled, he's got the, he's got the schooling 00:12:28.500 --> 00:12:31.059 side. He's, he's involved in that world. Yep. 00:12:31.059 --> 00:12:33.779 Right. Yep. But then he's also boots on the ground. 00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:36.700 Yes. Yeah. Which is just important to know. Yeah. 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:40.179 It's, it's super important. Um, and he, he titles 00:12:40.179 --> 00:12:43.960 his article, a spiritual revival for one is no 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.159 real revival. I just thought of your nickname, 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:50.379 by the way, the egret, Dr. Egret. You can't. 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:55.659 Isn't that great? Dr. Egret. Heck yes. I don't 00:12:55.659 --> 00:13:01.299 think I like it. Oh, that's so good. Hey, that 00:13:01.299 --> 00:13:03.360 was not like my idea that I pitched at the beard 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:05.200 earlier about what's happening in my backyard. 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:07.320 He was radically different. Yeah, that was it. 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:10.220 Dr. Egret. I interrupted you. No, you're good. 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:14.100 Anyways, let me repeat the title again. Spiritual 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:18.620 revival for one. is no real revival. And I thought 00:13:18.620 --> 00:13:20.860 the tag was kind of interesting. It kind of summarizes 00:13:20.860 --> 00:13:24.840 what this is about. It's called, Gen Z loves 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.879 the spiritual disciplines, but disciplines separated 00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:31.019 from the church community do not create disciples. 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:37.000 So in this article, he's kind of analyzing some 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:38.860 statistics that have come out about Generation 00:13:38.860 --> 00:13:43.519 Z, which is my generation. What's the age range 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:46.500 of that? They're saying, well, years -wise, it's 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.600 like 95 to maybe 2010, I think. I could be wrong 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:53.879 about that. And I was born in 98. So I'm at the 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:56.700 upper echelon. These are the ones after millennials. 00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:58.639 I'm not in that generation, just in case you're 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:02.500 worried. Are you a millennial? No. Gen X, baby. 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:08.259 Anyways. Gen X. We were the best. Best generation 00:14:08.259 --> 00:14:12.950 it's ever been. Rage against the machine. The 00:14:12.950 --> 00:14:15.809 beard is millennial. You're welcome. Yeah. You're 00:14:15.809 --> 00:14:19.629 welcome. We raged hard against the machine. Great 00:14:19.629 --> 00:14:24.570 band. Anyways, you like how I keep trying to 00:14:24.570 --> 00:14:28.629 drag us back? I can't. We're just along for the 00:14:28.629 --> 00:14:31.230 ride. We're going to get there. Yeah. I thought 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:33.870 it was interesting because I don't really, we 00:14:33.870 --> 00:14:36.830 can talk about Gen Z if you want, but I thought 00:14:36.830 --> 00:14:40.679 some of his thoughts. were interesting for us 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:44.639 can we can we dive into the tag gen z loves spiritual 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:47.100 disciplines yeah let's let's dive into that how's 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:50.139 that strike you let's dive into um we'll get 00:14:50.139 --> 00:14:52.620 we'll get more into the article but i think it's 00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:57.379 important to understand the i feel like i've 00:14:57.379 --> 00:15:00.360 been in church world long enough now to see trends 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:07.340 and see um not promises but like processes and 00:15:07.340 --> 00:15:10.039 systems that if, that if you do these things, 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:13.639 it will equal this. Right. And I would say personally, 00:15:13.779 --> 00:15:19.320 um, number of years ago, you know, leading, leading 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.960 part of the Heights community, especially leading 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.919 staff and noticing that there was a distinct, 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:30.059 um, uh, I don't know what the right word is. 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:34.940 Not a lack might be a good word for it. Maturity. 00:15:36.009 --> 00:15:38.230 And the question became, how do you help people 00:15:38.230 --> 00:15:42.330 mature? And so at that time, John Mark Comer's 00:15:42.330 --> 00:15:44.169 writing a whole bunch of stuff. He's kind of 00:15:44.169 --> 00:15:47.450 hitting eject on his church. And you had some 00:15:47.450 --> 00:15:49.409 other guys that were joining him in the spiritual 00:15:49.409 --> 00:15:54.870 disciplines. And, you know, is it Richard Rohr? 00:15:55.029 --> 00:15:59.710 He's been adamant about them for a while. There's 00:15:59.710 --> 00:16:02.350 a long tradition from like Dallas Willard. You 00:16:02.350 --> 00:16:03.309 have Scott McKnight. Yeah, Willard's another 00:16:03.309 --> 00:16:06.830 one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was just interesting 00:16:06.830 --> 00:16:09.649 to go, okay, what is something that we can step 00:16:09.649 --> 00:16:13.690 into, especially as a staff and spiritual disciplines 00:16:13.690 --> 00:16:18.549 were those, those areas. And what I came to realize 00:16:18.549 --> 00:16:21.509 is just because you have spiritual disciplines 00:16:21.509 --> 00:16:25.549 does not mean you are mature. And I think I made 00:16:25.549 --> 00:16:27.909 the mistake of going, if people lean in and have 00:16:27.909 --> 00:16:30.429 spiritual disciplines, they will become mature. 00:16:31.090 --> 00:16:34.759 But what I've. kind of come to realize in that 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:38.700 journey is there's more to it than just the disciplines 00:16:38.700 --> 00:16:43.179 are a part of the maturing process, not the maturing 00:16:43.179 --> 00:16:45.279 process, if that makes sense. No, that totally 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.940 makes sense. Because to the point here that when 00:16:48.940 --> 00:16:52.600 you separate the disciplines out from the community, 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:57.200 you drastically lose what's needed for maturity. 00:16:57.580 --> 00:17:01.429 Yes. I was listening to a podcast. It was actually 00:17:01.429 --> 00:17:04.509 on my way home from church on Saturday. And they 00:17:04.509 --> 00:17:10.869 were talking about the current teenage young 00:17:10.869 --> 00:17:14.990 adults world in AI. And they were talking about 00:17:14.990 --> 00:17:18.029 30 % of young adults feel more comfortable having 00:17:18.029 --> 00:17:20.569 a conversation with AI. Oh, I've seen those statistics. 00:17:20.789 --> 00:17:23.289 Than they do with an actual human, right? And 00:17:23.289 --> 00:17:26.269 then they were talking about like dating relationship, 00:17:26.369 --> 00:17:30.299 that most of them will have. uh some form of 00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:33.119 dating relationship with ai and then they even 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.759 went to the sexual experience side of their first 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:39.759 sexual experiences will be with ai wow and what 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:42.960 i found fascinating was is as these guys and 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:46.019 these guys are like they're older than me yeah 00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:50.059 been around a lot longer like wiser like voices 00:17:50.059 --> 00:17:53.960 within the christian community for sure and It 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:55.940 was interesting what they kind of pulled back 00:17:55.940 --> 00:17:58.359 to. Both of them are pastors that are now doing 00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:00.480 formation conversations, that kind of stuff. 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.859 And what was interesting, what they pulled back 00:18:02.859 --> 00:18:07.799 to was there's no conflict with AI. So the reason 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:10.799 that people are loving talking to AI is AI always 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:15.500 goes, that's a great idea, Noah. Like, wow, I 00:18:15.500 --> 00:18:17.900 really see what you're saying there. It just 00:18:17.900 --> 00:18:20.220 affirms, right? It's constantly affirming and 00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:22.730 there's no friction. And they were saying that 00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:25.690 without friction within a relationship, without 00:18:25.690 --> 00:18:30.089 conflict, you can't develop into an actual relationship. 00:18:30.710 --> 00:18:33.609 And so what happens is your maturity becomes 00:18:33.609 --> 00:18:39.150 held back because you're not developing relationally. 00:18:39.349 --> 00:18:42.190 So the danger now for 30 % of people that are 00:18:42.190 --> 00:18:44.049 more comfortable with that, they're not going 00:18:44.049 --> 00:18:45.809 to learn the skills they need to actually function 00:18:45.809 --> 00:18:48.829 within community. Wow. So going back to this 00:18:48.829 --> 00:18:51.660 now, tying the connection. Spiritual disciplines, 00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:53.980 I feel like, are the same thing. That when we 00:18:53.980 --> 00:18:56.160 isolate spiritual disciplines from community, 00:18:56.460 --> 00:19:01.140 they become something that is limited in what 00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:03.940 they do because the friction of community, the 00:19:03.940 --> 00:19:06.039 challenge of community, the accountability of 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:08.380 community, the understanding of community. So 00:19:08.380 --> 00:19:10.859 an example would be spiritual discipline of reading 00:19:10.859 --> 00:19:15.319 my Bible. I can read my Bible and be 100 % wrong, 00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:19.279 right? Like even with all the... Books I've read, 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:21.579 schooling, whatever, messages I've preached, 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:25.039 time in ministry, all of it. I can 100 % read 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:27.200 my Bible and walk away with the wrong conclusion. 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:33.440 I need community. The Bible is always intended 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.599 to be interpreted in community. So when you isolate 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:41.180 that out as a discipline, I need the discipline 00:19:41.180 --> 00:19:44.160 of reading my Bible, but I also need the sitting 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:48.119 at a table and being able to go, hey. I have 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:50.599 this thought and it's kind of like the fact I 00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.279 keep going back to, to the idea of the backyard, 00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:56.680 right? Like instantly David helps me understand 00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:58.859 if that's a good or a bad idea, but it requires 00:19:58.859 --> 00:20:00.900 that he's willing to enter into the conversation 00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:03.720 in a, in a conflict way to go. Now there's probably 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.960 something better. Right. And what it, what it 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:09.079 does is it gets me out of my own echo chamber. 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.519 And I feel like with spiritual, spiritual disciplines, 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:14.779 I feel like we can hit that same point. Yeah. 00:20:16.430 --> 00:20:18.930 If I'm not careful and it's just me and God. 00:20:19.109 --> 00:20:21.950 Yes. One, you weren't created for that. Two, 00:20:22.250 --> 00:20:25.230 there's a danger to where that can lead you. 00:20:25.349 --> 00:20:31.490 Yeah. And the conclusions that are made, you 00:20:31.490 --> 00:20:33.609 never go any further than your own mind. Right. 00:20:33.829 --> 00:20:36.549 Versus when I sit with you or I sit with David 00:20:36.549 --> 00:20:41.470 or the beard, as we call him. But I sit with 00:20:41.470 --> 00:20:45.230 David, I'm always. whatever we're talking about 00:20:45.230 --> 00:20:48.589 spiritually gets enhanced. It gets drawn out 00:20:48.589 --> 00:20:50.250 because of different... I was just chatting with 00:20:50.250 --> 00:20:53.950 David on the way in. It's interesting. It's one 00:20:53.950 --> 00:20:58.269 of the first times I can remember that churches 00:20:58.269 --> 00:21:02.509 in town, we spoke on Luke. They did the exact 00:21:02.509 --> 00:21:04.569 same, and they're working their way through. 00:21:04.589 --> 00:21:07.250 They were at the same point, right? But to hear 00:21:07.250 --> 00:21:09.549 the difference in perspective that God had for 00:21:09.549 --> 00:21:12.759 the two communities? Yes. It's just pretty cool 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:15.240 to go, God's got a voice to different people 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:17.539 at different times. Yeah. Well, and I think you're 00:21:17.539 --> 00:21:20.460 hitting upon a good, even a temptation in my 00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:22.700 own life. I think when I first became a Christian 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:24.880 and the spiritual disciplines were presented 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.019 to me, they were presented in such a way as like, 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:31.420 you need to do these in order that you grow as 00:21:31.420 --> 00:21:34.319 a Christian. And I think Scott McKnight in his 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.039 book on the disciplines, I think it was so fascinating 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:39.940 the way he... put into perspective the disciplines. 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:43.799 The disciplines are not a means to an end, but 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:48.160 they are a way to provide space in order for... 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.119 It's really good. Yeah, for the spirit to grow 00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:54.359 you. And I think what even... I'm going to say 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:57.140 Kunkel because... That sounds right to me. I'm 00:21:57.140 --> 00:22:00.240 just sending it. Sounds right to me. Yeah. We 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.940 were watching something last night and it's a 00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:06.359 movie and there was this Australian on there. 00:22:08.420 --> 00:22:11.500 he's older and he ends up dating the like main 00:22:11.500 --> 00:22:17.000 character. Yeah. And my 15 year old goes, Oh, 00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:21.740 he's an Aussie young. So Kunkel sounds right. 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:25.319 Yeah. So he's Kunkel. But I think what Kunkel 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:30.759 is hitting at is he's, he's seeing the, the fruit 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:32.880 of this emphasis on spiritual disciplines, which 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.119 I think does come from Gen X and kind of like 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:40.430 that generation. And how it's been received with 00:22:40.430 --> 00:22:44.309 Generation Z and how it's been completely abstracted 00:22:44.309 --> 00:22:47.609 from its context of community. Yeah. Which is 00:22:47.609 --> 00:22:49.089 fascinating. He has a couple other things in 00:22:49.089 --> 00:22:55.369 here. That idea of creating space. Yeah. Okay, 00:22:56.190 --> 00:23:00.289 do two things for the conversation. Yeah. Spiritual 00:23:00.289 --> 00:23:04.529 disciplines, what are they? Yeah. And then creating 00:23:04.529 --> 00:23:10.140 space, what... maybe walk through a couple and 00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:11.980 go, this is the space it's creating for you. 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:13.279 Does that make sense? Because I think that's 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:15.140 really powerful. The idea of creating space that 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:17.140 Scott McKnight's getting at, I think that's really 00:23:17.140 --> 00:23:20.759 powerful for the conversation. Yeah. So spiritual 00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:22.900 disciplines are something that the church through 00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:27.819 history have said, these practices, these disciplines 00:23:27.819 --> 00:23:31.839 are specific to our community and our rhythms, 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:35.099 essentially. So some of those spiritual disciplines 00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:38.799 are something like Sabbath. That's super popular 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:43.539 right now. Another one would be fasting. Why 00:23:43.539 --> 00:23:46.299 do you think it's popular? Why do I think it's 00:23:46.299 --> 00:23:51.660 popular? Because we live in a culture that is 00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:56.700 post -industrial revolution. And so work dominates 00:23:56.700 --> 00:24:00.619 everything. So Sabbath is a really big salve 00:24:00.619 --> 00:24:06.660 to the American over -industriousness. So fasting, 00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:09.700 another one. Not so popular. Not as popular. 00:24:09.859 --> 00:24:13.099 Not as popular in our tradition. Prayer is one 00:24:13.099 --> 00:24:17.420 of those. Solitude is another one of those. Also 00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:20.099 not so popular. Yeah. Scripture reading. And 00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:21.960 that's interesting, right? So you've got solitude, 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:24.940 but you've got a culture that's alone, which 00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:28.759 is an interesting... Yes. It's a different conversation 00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:31.440 for another time. Well, and let's even take solitude 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.869 and isolation. Okay, so... you're commenting 00:24:33.869 --> 00:24:36.609 on isolation being, or loneliness even, being 00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:40.509 one of the main things, especially men in 2026 00:24:40.509 --> 00:24:43.990 are struggling with. So somebody might be listening 00:24:43.990 --> 00:24:46.289 to us and be like, solitude. Struggling with 00:24:46.289 --> 00:24:48.710 but longing for it because you've got 30 % reaching 00:24:48.710 --> 00:24:51.369 out to something that's not even real. Yeah, 00:24:51.369 --> 00:24:55.730 something that mimics a human connection, which 00:24:55.730 --> 00:25:02.089 is so devious. Anyways, so solitude makes space. 00:25:02.910 --> 00:25:05.789 For God to be speaking to you, for you to even 00:25:05.789 --> 00:25:11.329 be like filled up and poured into through whether 00:25:11.329 --> 00:25:13.690 it be scripture or meditation, whatever that 00:25:13.690 --> 00:25:18.329 might be. Whereas isolation or loneliness often 00:25:18.329 --> 00:25:21.029 gets into navel gazing, right? Like it's all 00:25:21.029 --> 00:25:24.289 internal to me. It's all myself and I am alone. 00:25:24.529 --> 00:25:27.450 And that's the big thing there is I, I am alone. 00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:30.900 So another big thing like scripture reading, 00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:33.140 right? Like that is a discipline that I hope 00:25:33.140 --> 00:25:36.480 our church family engages in quite a bit. That 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.480 discipline gives space for God to speak through 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:43.359 these particular words, these particular songs, 00:25:43.700 --> 00:25:48.880 poems, histories, laments, all of that, to speak 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:54.279 directly to our situation and for us to... come 00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:56.220 away with a new understanding of who Jesus is. 00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:59.359 Ultimately, I think that's the whole aim of Scripture, 00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.319 is to present who Jesus is. He is the pinnacle 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:05.940 of revelation, of God revealing himself. Super 00:26:05.940 --> 00:26:11.440 good. So yeah, it's an important piece on the 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.400 discipleship journey. So let's go back to Gen 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.779 Z then, right? So it's saying that Gen Z are 00:26:16.779 --> 00:26:21.539 engaging in those, but they're not engaging in 00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:24.789 community. Right. Not engaging in the gatherings. 00:26:24.910 --> 00:26:28.390 Yeah, and what Kunkel is hinting at here is he's 00:26:28.390 --> 00:26:30.549 interpreting some statistics that recently came 00:26:30.549 --> 00:26:33.890 out from, I believe, Gallup and Pew Research, 00:26:34.170 --> 00:26:37.970 who they have basically said there might be some 00:26:37.970 --> 00:26:41.549 talk of this revival happening in America, but 00:26:41.549 --> 00:26:45.009 we're not seeing accompanying numbers of church 00:26:45.009 --> 00:26:47.910 attendance increasing, which is fascinating. 00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:51.250 So I think we've talked about it on here. I don't 00:26:51.250 --> 00:26:54.789 remember, Beard, if we've... There's been a few 00:26:54.789 --> 00:26:59.910 revivals that have happened. And I mean, the 00:26:59.910 --> 00:27:01.589 people that were involved in them aren't even 00:27:01.589 --> 00:27:03.450 calling them revivals. They're calling them outpouring 00:27:03.450 --> 00:27:05.529 of the spirit, right? Like the spirit poured 00:27:05.529 --> 00:27:11.670 differently during them. Yes. And so what this 00:27:11.670 --> 00:27:15.809 is kind of tagging to that is while those have 00:27:15.809 --> 00:27:18.289 been happening and they are genuine and it's, 00:27:18.289 --> 00:27:22.490 it's rippling and. More gatherings similar -esque 00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:26.410 are happening. Yeah. The consistency of church 00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:29.950 on a weekend. Yes. The consistency of being a 00:27:29.950 --> 00:27:32.829 part of a community is actually not increasing. 00:27:33.190 --> 00:27:35.630 Correct. So you've got large numbers of people 00:27:35.630 --> 00:27:39.710 where there's these fires. And back to the spiritual 00:27:39.710 --> 00:27:42.309 disciplines, they're even engaging on their own 00:27:42.309 --> 00:27:46.210 growth with God, so to speak. Yeah. But it's 00:27:46.210 --> 00:27:48.529 in isolation from is what he's getting at, right? 00:27:48.670 --> 00:27:50.369 Well, and I think there's even something ironic. 00:27:50.549 --> 00:27:55.029 There was a recent opinion article penned in 00:27:55.029 --> 00:27:57.109 the Washington Post, I think, this last weekend. 00:27:57.410 --> 00:28:02.230 It was a fascinating, he's a Christian. He called 00:28:02.230 --> 00:28:05.509 what we're experiencing a vibes revival. And 00:28:05.509 --> 00:28:09.019 so, yeah, he coined this term. And what he's 00:28:09.019 --> 00:28:11.339 saying essentially is that, yeah, if you look 00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:13.339 on social media or you look at popular culture, 00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:16.539 there's all of this talk about revival, but we're 00:28:16.539 --> 00:28:20.900 not seeing an accompanying increase in orthodox 00:28:20.900 --> 00:28:24.680 right Christian practice that comes with it. 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:26.880 So we're not seeing an increase of kindness, 00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:31.980 humility, compassion. Those are all not also 00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:34.599 increasing. So it was an interesting opinion, 00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:38.650 but I think it gets to the... maybe the issue 00:28:38.650 --> 00:28:41.329 behind all of this like what are we why are we 00:28:41.329 --> 00:28:43.269 calling things revival when we have no idea what 00:28:43.269 --> 00:28:47.430 a revival is right um but anyways i think there 00:28:47.430 --> 00:28:49.609 was and i mean some of the stuff i've listened 00:28:49.609 --> 00:28:53.410 to on that too at some point you start to manufacture 00:28:53.410 --> 00:28:55.849 revival yeah how can you try and put the right 00:28:55.849 --> 00:28:58.650 things in the right room at the right time and 00:28:58.650 --> 00:29:01.009 you and then you go and we're just inviting the 00:29:01.009 --> 00:29:06.069 holy spirit yes but wouldn't be satisfied if 00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:09.299 It was just a really good gathering where the 00:29:09.299 --> 00:29:11.819 word was preached and people worshiped and prayed 00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:17.740 for. If the supernatural doesn't happen, but 00:29:17.740 --> 00:29:22.819 then how do you call that revival when it's essentially 00:29:22.819 --> 00:29:25.839 us lighting the fuse, if that makes sense, versus 00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:29.380 what I understand of revival and revival. through 00:29:29.380 --> 00:29:32.440 the generations is the spirit lit the fuse and 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:35.460 it made no sense why. And it wasn't because anybody 00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:37.660 did anything specific. You didn't have the best 00:29:37.660 --> 00:29:41.240 communicators, best bands, best whatever. It 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.480 was literally the Holy Spirit showed up and nobody 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.279 knows why. Yeah. But nobody wants to miss it. 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.240 And so then it just rippled and burned, right? 00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:53.420 Well, the big, I mean, for us and our evangelical 00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:56.019 kind of tradition, the two main revivals we always 00:29:56.019 --> 00:29:58.190 go back to is the great awakening. in the colonies. 00:29:58.589 --> 00:30:00.910 And then we also have the evangelical revival 00:30:00.910 --> 00:30:05.190 in the UK or England at the time. And what's 00:30:05.190 --> 00:30:08.029 fascinating when you read people who are writing 00:30:08.029 --> 00:30:11.170 around that same time, when they're going back 00:30:11.170 --> 00:30:14.109 there, it's always hindsight that they're calling 00:30:14.109 --> 00:30:17.170 it a revival. It's not this like, yeah, it's 00:30:17.170 --> 00:30:19.410 not present in the moment. Yeah. And which is 00:30:19.410 --> 00:30:22.210 such a, it's a stark contrast because there's 00:30:22.210 --> 00:30:24.150 literally an organization going around to college 00:30:24.150 --> 00:30:27.319 campuses saying we are bringing a revival. Like 00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:29.559 I don't understand what that means. Yeah. Like 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:31.980 we can say we're bringing good gatherings. We're 00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.799 bringing the word. Like all of those things are 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:36.119 great. What is bringing revival? Yeah. We're 00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:37.940 bringing a night of worship. Yeah. Great. We're 00:30:37.940 --> 00:30:39.880 bringing an awakening. Yeah. Right. Like we're 00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:43.119 trying to awaken people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's 00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:45.720 interesting how, how that works. One of my favorite 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.279 ones was from, I don't remember who it was. It's 00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:51.019 a guy in England. Yeah. And he was talking about 00:30:51.019 --> 00:30:54.539 it's Christmas Eve and 4 ,000 people are outside 00:30:54.539 --> 00:30:57.859 the church. and they don't know why like there's 00:30:57.859 --> 00:31:05.720 no yeah and and post i guess atheist yeah um 00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:10.559 sitting in that space of just questions and and 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.839 god's lighting a fire again right but but them 00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:15.519 going we don't even know what to do we don't 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.359 right we don't even know how to right what do 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:20.200 you do with four four thousand people that can't 00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:23.250 get in the building well you know you You don't 00:31:23.250 --> 00:31:26.269 even have 4 ,000 chairs. Right. What are you 00:31:26.269 --> 00:31:29.750 supposed to do? Well, and I think, so then let's 00:31:29.750 --> 00:31:31.970 get back to this wider question of discipleship. 00:31:31.990 --> 00:31:35.890 Okay. Why, I think we both kind of confirm we 00:31:35.890 --> 00:31:37.910 feel this tension with the spiritual disciplines. 00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:39.329 And I wouldn't even say, I wouldn't even say 00:31:39.329 --> 00:31:43.529 I feel this tension like as a pastor and as somebody 00:31:43.529 --> 00:31:46.289 who has been at it for a while. Yeah. I wouldn't 00:31:46.289 --> 00:31:49.529 even say that I feel this tension in Gen Z. I'm 00:31:49.529 --> 00:31:52.630 sure it exists there. I'm just not. I'm not in 00:31:52.630 --> 00:31:54.789 the day -to -day with Gen Z to go, I feel this 00:31:54.789 --> 00:31:56.910 tension across the church. Yeah, this is wider. 00:31:57.089 --> 00:32:01.650 I feel this tension when we host an online platform 00:32:01.650 --> 00:32:07.690 for people to be a part of church. I think there's 00:32:07.690 --> 00:32:10.049 an absolute beauty to the online platform. I 00:32:10.049 --> 00:32:11.809 got a couple of people in my life right now that 00:32:11.809 --> 00:32:13.890 health -wise, it's hit and miss by a week if 00:32:13.890 --> 00:32:15.589 they can be there or not. But for them to still 00:32:15.589 --> 00:32:18.869 feel a part, that's unbelievable. People that 00:32:18.869 --> 00:32:23.329 feel isolated in communities, and are using it 00:32:23.329 --> 00:32:25.890 in the midst of a transition. Like I just met 00:32:25.890 --> 00:32:29.329 a couple that move from Colorado to Prescott 00:32:29.329 --> 00:32:31.349 and it was their first weekend at Heights. They've 00:32:31.349 --> 00:32:33.750 been online for, oh yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, 00:32:33.750 --> 00:32:36.309 incredible. But I think when we substitute, I 00:32:36.309 --> 00:32:38.730 don't need to gather with people. I can sit isolated 00:32:38.730 --> 00:32:44.170 at home and call myself as part of, there's a 00:32:44.170 --> 00:32:48.509 real miss there, right? And so I would say with 00:32:48.509 --> 00:32:51.339 the disciplines, I think it's something within 00:32:51.339 --> 00:32:55.400 the church as a whole where people feel like 00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:59.420 they can do it on their own or I don't need to 00:32:59.420 --> 00:33:01.579 go and sit at a table and be a part of a group. 00:33:01.819 --> 00:33:03.460 We're going to do groups in a couple of weeks, 00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:07.720 signups. And I think what's interesting for me 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:13.119 is I care less about, yes, I want good leaders 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.819 for those groups. You want people that are solid, 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.960 mature. But if it means people sitting at a table 00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.400 or not sitting at a table, then let's trust the 00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:22.980 Holy Spirit and put people at a table together 00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:26.680 and let them ask questions of each other. And 00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:30.859 I think there's some of that hear the heart, 00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:34.680 not the methodology, right? Yeah. But I do think 00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:38.279 there's a piece of it where even within our church 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:42.180 family, there are people my age and older that 00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:45.339 don't think they need the community and are isolating 00:33:45.339 --> 00:33:48.369 away from it. And I think it's detrimental to 00:33:48.369 --> 00:33:50.950 their spiritual growth and maturity. Yeah. Well, 00:33:51.049 --> 00:33:54.089 and I think this, so I would love to read a quote 00:33:54.089 --> 00:33:55.990 for you because it's, I think it kind of gets 00:33:55.990 --> 00:34:00.630 at what you're, this is Kunkel. He says, it bothers 00:34:00.630 --> 00:34:04.369 me when discipleship is domesticated into a morning 00:34:04.369 --> 00:34:07.130 ritual of a fresh cup of coffee beside a chair 00:34:07.130 --> 00:34:10.590 accompanied by 10 minutes pursuing a study Bible, 00:34:10.730 --> 00:34:13.510 mostly reading its notes rather than scripture 00:34:13.510 --> 00:34:16.869 itself. It is remarkable that we place such an 00:34:16.869 --> 00:34:20.309 emphasis on private and personal devotion reading 00:34:20.309 --> 00:34:23.510 when in the New Testament, there's only one recorded 00:34:23.510 --> 00:34:26.170 instance of someone reading scripture in isolation. 00:34:26.989 --> 00:34:30.389 I mean, this is, again, he's presenting a caricature, 00:34:30.469 --> 00:34:33.550 right? There is the caricature of, you know, 00:34:33.590 --> 00:34:34.969 I'm going to get my coffee. I'm going to sit 00:34:34.969 --> 00:34:37.110 down with my Bible. I'm going to open it. Yeah. 00:34:37.369 --> 00:34:40.150 Like it is a practice. Yeah. It is a practice 00:34:40.150 --> 00:34:44.670 that I think many of our, not only our, but also 00:34:44.670 --> 00:34:47.610 our staff can resonate with. But what I think 00:34:47.610 --> 00:34:50.610 Kunkel is getting at here is - And I would add 00:34:50.610 --> 00:34:53.349 to that, it can be a sacred space. Yes, still. 00:34:54.110 --> 00:34:57.349 That can be something that is very sacred to 00:34:57.349 --> 00:35:00.869 your relational journey with God. So I don't 00:35:00.869 --> 00:35:03.530 think it's a throwing out of that. Yes. Go ahead. 00:35:03.570 --> 00:35:07.130 Yeah, what Kunkel is pushing back against is 00:35:07.130 --> 00:35:09.630 that that in itself has become the dominating 00:35:09.630 --> 00:35:13.260 image of what discipleship is. That's what I 00:35:13.260 --> 00:35:16.780 think he's frustrated with. Which, I mean, how 00:35:16.780 --> 00:35:20.400 does that strike you? Yeah, I think anytime discipleship 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.960 is in the what I'm attaining and what I'm getting, 00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:26.280 the marks of maturity are what I do with it. 00:35:26.420 --> 00:35:29.679 The marks of maturity are how I love my wife. 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:36.099 The marks of maturity are how joyful I am. So 00:35:36.099 --> 00:35:38.380 even when everything's falling apart, am I the 00:35:38.380 --> 00:35:42.239 guy that... is livid and in the corner and miserable 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.840 to be around? Or is there an element of, man, 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.059 I've matured to the point that God's got it and 00:35:49.059 --> 00:35:51.360 I can still be joyful. And it doesn't mean I 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:54.860 like it. There's an end to it. So yes, this is 00:35:54.860 --> 00:35:58.019 lame. I wish we weren't going through this and 00:35:58.019 --> 00:36:00.940 I can still have joy because God's got it. God 00:36:00.940 --> 00:36:05.309 hasn't moved. He's still in control. You know, 00:36:05.349 --> 00:36:08.130 peace would go along with that one, right? Like 00:36:08.130 --> 00:36:11.349 the idea of patience. Right. One of the things 00:36:11.349 --> 00:36:15.510 I feel like God's working with me on is my responses 00:36:15.510 --> 00:36:18.409 first time. Because I'll catch them the second 00:36:18.409 --> 00:36:21.349 or third time. Yeah. But my first response, is 00:36:21.349 --> 00:36:25.139 it short? Is it kind? Yes. Is it patient? Yes. 00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:27.579 And I found that I'm texting people lately more 00:36:27.579 --> 00:36:30.219 often than not going, hey, I'm sorry if I came 00:36:30.219 --> 00:36:32.360 across short because that's something that God 00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.760 is working on me on to mature to be a lot more 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:39.820 like Jesus. Rarely do you hear Jesus be sharp 00:36:39.820 --> 00:36:43.940 with people unless it's somebody opposing. Yes. 00:36:43.940 --> 00:36:47.420 Unless there's a reason for that tone was needed 00:36:47.420 --> 00:36:51.460 in that moment. Yeah. And so I think... To go 00:36:51.460 --> 00:36:56.059 back to what we're saying, I think when I equate 00:36:56.059 --> 00:37:03.599 maturity, maturity isn't a discipline. And if 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.059 you put it into the bodybuilding sense, I know 00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:08.820 a lot of people that go to the gym religiously. 00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:11.219 Oh, yeah. It doesn't make them mature. Right. 00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:17.059 Right? It doesn't, like, their body may grow. 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:20.260 Yes. But it doesn't mean that they've matured 00:37:20.260 --> 00:37:22.860 into something. It means they have a discipline 00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:24.460 of going to the gym. Right. That's what it means. 00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:27.320 If they still eat like crap, they don't do the 00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:29.800 other stuff. Can we say crap on here? I don't 00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:31.679 know if I've ever said crap on here. It's unedited. 00:37:32.619 --> 00:37:35.840 Well, there you go, dude. We out here. Todd's 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:39.139 not here and look what we're doing. So, yeah. 00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:42.619 So I would say when I equate the discipline is 00:37:42.619 --> 00:37:46.440 to create space for God to shape the heart. Yes. 00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:50.070 And out of the heart. Is what flows into what 00:37:50.070 --> 00:37:55.150 I do. Yeah. So maturity has to be the measure 00:37:55.150 --> 00:37:58.869 and the measure of maturity has to be how I live 00:37:58.869 --> 00:38:01.570 it. Yes. Right? Like, do I love like Jesus? What 00:38:01.570 --> 00:38:04.929 does that look like? Yes. It seems like maturity 00:38:04.929 --> 00:38:10.130 is a sign or an outcome rather than necessarily 00:38:10.130 --> 00:38:13.369 being the thing that we strive for. Like it is 00:38:13.369 --> 00:38:16.869 a byproduct more than something we're striving 00:38:16.869 --> 00:38:18.269 for. Well, like you said, the means to an end. 00:38:18.329 --> 00:38:19.809 If the discipline is a means, that's where it 00:38:19.809 --> 00:38:22.329 breaks down. Yes. Because in the original part 00:38:22.329 --> 00:38:25.769 of this conversation, the means to the end was 00:38:25.769 --> 00:38:28.489 if we do spiritual disciplines, people will mature. 00:38:28.690 --> 00:38:32.030 Right. Well, no, they gained healthy rhythms. 00:38:32.110 --> 00:38:35.789 They created space for them. Yes. Right? But 00:38:35.789 --> 00:38:38.190 the maturing is what they do with it and how 00:38:38.190 --> 00:38:40.909 it outpours and where it goes. Yeah. which I 00:38:40.909 --> 00:38:44.730 think you're spot on with. I thought it was fascinating 00:38:44.730 --> 00:38:48.750 that one time we see somebody reading scripture 00:38:48.750 --> 00:38:51.090 privately, that's the Ethiopian eunuch, is what 00:38:51.090 --> 00:38:55.090 he says. And even the Ethiopian eunuch goes to 00:38:55.090 --> 00:39:00.510 Philip. He needs community. And is like, Philip, 00:39:00.610 --> 00:39:03.769 what does this mean? I think that's so fascinating. 00:39:04.690 --> 00:39:07.889 Well, and I think too, to get back to your discipleship 00:39:07.889 --> 00:39:10.840 piece, And the sign of maturity. This is part 00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:12.579 of the reason I love youth ministry so much, 00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:16.519 is I get to see adults step into students' lives. 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:19.780 And man, students don't really care about your 00:39:19.780 --> 00:39:22.860 Bible knowledge. They don't care how many times 00:39:22.860 --> 00:39:26.179 Lego, the Greek word for I say, gets mentioned. 00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:29.059 They just don't care. But what students do care 00:39:29.059 --> 00:39:32.019 about is that maturity that you're exhibiting 00:39:32.019 --> 00:39:35.829 as a believer. That you've gone through it. You've 00:39:35.829 --> 00:39:37.570 been where they're at. And you've come out the 00:39:37.570 --> 00:39:40.309 other side. And for better or for worse, God 00:39:40.309 --> 00:39:44.289 is still working on you. Yeah, because the shaping 00:39:44.289 --> 00:39:46.889 that's happening in that, again, is back to community. 00:39:47.070 --> 00:39:49.329 Yeah. They're choosing to invest into another 00:39:49.329 --> 00:39:52.989 human being. And what's going to happen is they're 00:39:52.989 --> 00:39:54.889 going to be shaped by that. Yeah. Right? Because 00:39:54.889 --> 00:39:57.010 God made us to be shaped by one another. Yes. 00:39:57.010 --> 00:39:58.750 God made us to be shaped through conversation. 00:39:59.050 --> 00:40:02.809 God made us to be, right? And so within that, 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:08.199 it's, it's the practical, right? Like love, love 00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:10.679 is so practical. It's a verb. Yes. Right. Like 00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:15.360 to show up and to sacrificially, like if you've 00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:18.500 never worked with teens, it's, you're just going 00:40:18.500 --> 00:40:20.739 to sacrifice constant sacrificing. Why? Because. 00:40:21.530 --> 00:40:23.610 teens are at a point in their life where they're 00:40:23.610 --> 00:40:26.369 naturally selfish yes because they're learning 00:40:26.369 --> 00:40:29.190 how to mature out of being selfish yes so so 00:40:29.190 --> 00:40:31.750 you're placing yourself in a spot where they 00:40:31.750 --> 00:40:34.230 may never say thank you but you're still going 00:40:34.230 --> 00:40:36.789 to give up your friday night right right and 00:40:36.789 --> 00:40:38.969 do something that you prefer not to do or you're 00:40:38.969 --> 00:40:41.590 still going to take that phone call at whatever 00:40:41.590 --> 00:40:44.929 time they decide to call you right and i think 00:40:44.929 --> 00:40:48.289 i But again, that is the maturing process. Am 00:40:48.289 --> 00:40:50.769 I going to say no and be selfish or am I going 00:40:50.769 --> 00:40:53.690 to go, hey, I'll step in and love you where you're 00:40:53.690 --> 00:40:58.090 at, right? It's so good. It's so good. Beard, 00:40:58.130 --> 00:41:01.929 I have no idea what time we're at. Okay. Wow, 00:41:02.190 --> 00:41:05.110 we're moving quickly. I think this leads us in. 00:41:05.250 --> 00:41:07.690 I think we need to talk about the message this 00:41:07.690 --> 00:41:10.909 last weekend. One of the things, it was on the 00:41:10.909 --> 00:41:15.320 peril of the sower. Yep. I had a few quotes from 00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:17.440 you. Oh, boy. This might have been from teaching 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:20.679 team, but it was so good. Anyways, I don't know 00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:22.460 if we have time to get into them. Sure, we can 00:41:22.460 --> 00:41:24.880 do a couple. We'll hit them quick. I don't even 00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:28.820 know what they are. Well, no. When you were explaining 00:41:28.820 --> 00:41:34.619 who the sower is and the disposition of generosity 00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:39.170 that the sower has, that is such a... powerful 00:41:39.170 --> 00:41:42.250 image that i think we overlook sometimes when 00:41:42.250 --> 00:41:43.710 we read that story because we've heard it so 00:41:43.710 --> 00:41:46.949 many times we hear about the soils yeah um what 00:41:46.949 --> 00:41:49.730 as you were reading what was that moment like 00:41:49.730 --> 00:41:52.670 for you realizing kind of that moment of just 00:41:52.670 --> 00:41:56.289 how gracious the sewer is yeah i think i think 00:41:56.289 --> 00:42:00.869 it all so starting out it it started kind of 00:42:00.869 --> 00:42:05.670 normal for me yeah where um i'm just doing my 00:42:05.670 --> 00:42:09.510 own prep Like starting to take apart different 00:42:09.510 --> 00:42:13.369 things. And in that process went, oh, he's generous. 00:42:14.610 --> 00:42:17.710 And it's one thing to say he's generous because 00:42:17.710 --> 00:42:22.090 of the amount that's scattered. Yes. It's another 00:42:22.090 --> 00:42:25.489 thing to be generous when he knew where it was 00:42:25.489 --> 00:42:28.510 going. So he knew the devil was coming. Yep. 00:42:28.570 --> 00:42:32.809 And he's still generous. He knew the... lack 00:42:32.809 --> 00:42:35.250 of moisture right like that that it'll be joyful 00:42:35.250 --> 00:42:38.369 for a moment but then it's going to be drained 00:42:38.369 --> 00:42:41.949 out so to speak right he knew that and so there's 00:42:41.949 --> 00:42:44.090 this moment where i'm in my house and i literally 00:42:44.090 --> 00:42:47.469 jump up and i'm like the freaking so are new 00:42:47.469 --> 00:42:49.429 yeah i think i said that at the 11 i didn't say 00:42:49.429 --> 00:42:52.329 it any others but and i so much so that i'm like 00:42:52.329 --> 00:42:55.070 i gotta write it down yeah i jumped up said it 00:42:55.070 --> 00:42:58.170 out loud went over wrote it down and i'm like 00:42:58.170 --> 00:43:01.730 and i just sat there and i'm like he knew yeah 00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:07.480 He knew that I, you know, like, I won't put it 00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:10.539 in my case. Take me out of it. Yeah. He knew 00:43:10.539 --> 00:43:13.320 that we would become more distracted. Yep. That 00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:17.219 he would sow the word to us and I'd be more interested 00:43:17.219 --> 00:43:20.480 in Instagram. Right? Like he knew. And yet he 00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:23.920 still went, here you go. He knew that people 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:26.820 would reject him. Yep. And yet he still. And 00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:31.829 so for me, it went from generous to. like overwhelming 00:43:31.829 --> 00:43:36.909 generosity of, I don't think I would do that. 00:43:36.969 --> 00:43:39.690 Right. I don't think I would. And then it gets 00:43:39.690 --> 00:43:42.949 really practical. Yes. How many conversations 00:43:42.949 --> 00:43:45.670 I've been in that the person goes, I didn't help 00:43:45.670 --> 00:43:48.409 them. Why didn't you help them? I don't know 00:43:48.409 --> 00:43:51.210 what they're going to do with it. Right? So all 00:43:51.210 --> 00:43:53.409 of a sudden now, the conversation around generosity 00:43:53.409 --> 00:43:58.289 becomes really practical to, oh, I am only going 00:43:58.289 --> 00:44:01.989 to give. If I know the outcome of my giving versus 00:44:01.989 --> 00:44:07.829 going, wait a minute, I am supposed to be generous 00:44:07.829 --> 00:44:10.090 by nature and I'm supposed to follow the Holy 00:44:10.090 --> 00:44:14.389 Spirit. If the Holy Spirit says do it, then I 00:44:14.389 --> 00:44:18.409 don't have any rationale beyond that. I don't 00:44:18.409 --> 00:44:21.550 have to know the outcome. I don't have to know. 00:44:21.630 --> 00:44:23.710 And it may be that the Holy Spirit's going, you 00:44:23.710 --> 00:44:27.110 need to do this. And I remember years ago, I 00:44:27.110 --> 00:44:28.840 think we might've even been on a... creative 00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:31.579 arts trip. I don't remember, but I just remember 00:44:31.579 --> 00:44:33.460 we were passing homeless person after homeless 00:44:33.460 --> 00:44:37.139 person in California and we got to one light 00:44:37.139 --> 00:44:40.019 and for whatever reason, I just felt God go, 00:44:40.139 --> 00:44:43.480 give him what's in your pocket. And it was like, 00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:47.880 okay, why, why this guy? Right. And in my mind, 00:44:47.900 --> 00:44:51.059 I'm like, he's probably a drug addict. You know 00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:53.579 what I mean? Which is super wrong. Right. Like, 00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:56.380 like I repent of that. Yeah. But at the same 00:44:56.380 --> 00:45:00.039 time, If the Holy Spirit says do it, we're to 00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:02.260 be like God. The model we get of God is overwhelming 00:45:02.260 --> 00:45:06.880 generosity. Yes. To the point the devil's coming 00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:09.219 and he's going to take it. Yeah. You're going 00:45:09.219 --> 00:45:12.239 to reject it. You're going to get more interested 00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:15.300 in the next shiny object. Yes. You're going to 00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:18.000 get lost in your own worries of this world. Yeah. 00:45:18.579 --> 00:45:20.360 I'm still going to do it. Yeah. And I'm going 00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:21.880 to keep doing it. And I'm going to keep doing 00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:23.780 it until the day you die. Right? Like how many 00:45:23.780 --> 00:45:25.539 times do you hear somebody on their deathbed? 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:29.690 I just heard one. recently um guy's dad was passing 00:45:29.690 --> 00:45:36.130 away and his dad on his deathbed um repents wow 00:45:36.130 --> 00:45:40.989 and wow you know god had been there the whole 00:45:40.989 --> 00:45:43.110 time he'd been sewing the whole time yeah right 00:45:43.110 --> 00:45:47.530 and and imagine if if you take the angle of god 00:45:47.530 --> 00:45:51.940 only gives one shot right versus the picture 00:45:51.940 --> 00:45:53.599 you get at the server is he's overwhelmingly 00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:57.639 generous. Well, and hearing you talk about it, 00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:01.579 because I think it was a big part of your message 00:46:01.579 --> 00:46:06.079 this weekend. I mean, I could see how much that 00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:09.300 image had changed you even. But it made me think 00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:13.119 of the parable of the talents. When the master, 00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:15.099 this is another parable, but the master gives 00:46:15.099 --> 00:46:19.000 a lot of money to one servant, a medium amount 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:21.320 of money to another, A little bit of money to 00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:24.619 the other. And the one who has the littlest amount 00:46:24.619 --> 00:46:28.280 of money fundamentally misunderstands who the 00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:33.940 master is. And you are a vindictive man reaping 00:46:33.940 --> 00:46:36.739 where you did not sow. And it says this back 00:46:36.739 --> 00:46:39.699 to the master. The dude missed the generosity. 00:46:40.139 --> 00:46:42.920 And I thought about how many times I've looked 00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:47.099 at the parable of the sower, looked at the soils. 00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:51.119 And use that to fence in how God was going to 00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:53.480 work in somebody's life. Yeah. Right. Like even 00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:56.639 with my youth, it's such an easy, easy way to 00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:59.960 be like, oh man, you are scattered among the 00:46:59.960 --> 00:47:01.559 path. It's going to get taken up immediately. 00:47:01.739 --> 00:47:03.340 I don't know if I'm going to put any effort in. 00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:06.079 Yeah. Right. And how quickly that changes. Like 00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:08.519 this is, this is what hit me this morning. It 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:11.119 changes the way you communicate. Yes. So instead 00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:15.289 of communicating angry. Yep. Of. You're this 00:47:15.289 --> 00:47:17.570 soil. Why don't you get this? And why don't you 00:47:17.570 --> 00:47:20.070 get this? Why do you keep allowing this to happen? 00:47:20.250 --> 00:47:23.389 Yeah. It allows you to communicate this heart 00:47:23.389 --> 00:47:27.010 of generosity and grace and mercy and that God 00:47:27.010 --> 00:47:30.570 is still. Right. Even though you know, I'm a 00:47:30.570 --> 00:47:32.949 path. I've been trodden down or I'm in the weeds 00:47:32.949 --> 00:47:35.409 or whatever, right? Like I know I'm overwhelmed 00:47:35.409 --> 00:47:38.829 by the worries of this world. Yeah. And God yesterday 00:47:38.829 --> 00:47:43.219 for whatever amount of time. Was throwing seed 00:47:43.219 --> 00:47:45.920 again to go, you don't have to stay there. Yeah. 00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:49.079 Right? Like you don't. And to me, it just changes 00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:54.460 the whole emphasis and tone and vibe. Yeah. Of 00:47:54.460 --> 00:47:58.179 communication, right? Yeah. And I would much 00:47:58.179 --> 00:48:02.039 prefer to be on that side than the side of being 00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:05.260 angry with the church or being angry or shaming 00:48:05.260 --> 00:48:09.280 individuals or they leave. And one of my favorite 00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:12.510 things is we. you know we do the parable of southern 00:48:12.510 --> 00:48:14.530 people are leaving and they're encouraged yes 00:48:14.530 --> 00:48:17.869 i'm like i don't know the last time i've taught 00:48:17.869 --> 00:48:20.289 that message let alone anybody like i've taught 00:48:20.289 --> 00:48:25.230 that message probably four or five times at this 00:48:25.230 --> 00:48:27.190 point i think you're being light on that you 00:48:27.190 --> 00:48:30.849 know yeah and yet within that i don't know how 00:48:30.849 --> 00:48:32.730 many times people walked away going man i'm encouraged 00:48:32.730 --> 00:48:35.829 by by this yeah and i'm telling my friend they 00:48:35.829 --> 00:48:37.289 got to come over and listen to this you know 00:48:37.289 --> 00:48:42.139 like It's just a whole different thing. And kind 00:48:42.139 --> 00:48:44.079 of to put a bow on all of this, on all of our 00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:46.500 conversation about spiritual disciplines, maturity, 00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:50.579 parable of the sower, I think one of the things 00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:52.440 that I was struck by that I think is encouraging 00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.139 for our church family is like, what is the next 00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:58.159 step of obedience after listening to the parable 00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:01.699 of the sower? Because I think for me in this 00:49:01.699 --> 00:49:04.719 moment, sitting there listening to you and unpack 00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:07.059 the parable of the sower, my next step of obedience 00:49:07.059 --> 00:49:11.920 is to stop. where God is going to work and being 00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:15.380 very pragmatic. That's just not... You focus 00:49:15.380 --> 00:49:19.400 on who the sower is, who God is. You look at 00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:23.000 how gracious God is, and you also sit there in 00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:27.280 awe and say, you are sovereign. Who am I to put 00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:29.260 a fence around who's going to be saved or not 00:49:29.260 --> 00:49:30.780 saved? Who's going to listen? Who's not going 00:49:30.780 --> 00:49:32.500 to listen? Who's going to come on the weekend? 00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:37.289 All of that, because I do that often. It's the 00:49:37.289 --> 00:49:40.429 cynicism in me. And why would God continue? I 00:49:40.429 --> 00:49:42.050 know we've got to be dumb, but why would God 00:49:42.050 --> 00:49:49.889 continue to bring people to, whether it's heights, 00:49:49.989 --> 00:49:52.489 whether it's youth, whether it's something we're 00:49:52.489 --> 00:49:55.150 doing, right? Like something where we're proclaiming 00:49:55.150 --> 00:49:58.730 the word. Why would God continue to do that if 00:49:58.730 --> 00:50:01.909 we have a limitation on the people, right? Like 00:50:01.909 --> 00:50:06.389 if we're limiting and frustrated with... Or we're 00:50:06.389 --> 00:50:08.889 limiting where the word can go. Yeah. Right? 00:50:09.050 --> 00:50:13.889 Like, why would God? Yeah. Right? Like, I look 00:50:13.889 --> 00:50:16.590 at it and go, man, there's stuff there that I 00:50:16.590 --> 00:50:20.210 need to repent of, of times when I've limited 00:50:20.210 --> 00:50:23.789 what I think God can do. Yeah. Because I'm more 00:50:23.789 --> 00:50:26.550 concerned with results than just being faithful. 00:50:26.909 --> 00:50:28.750 And I think back to that obedience question. 00:50:28.849 --> 00:50:31.809 That's mine. Just be faithful. Yeah. If he calls. 00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:34.599 So good. Engage him because that's what he's 00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:36.539 calling me to do, right? Yeah. Engage him spiritually. 00:50:37.420 --> 00:50:39.159 If it's on the other side where I'm getting to 00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:43.500 sow seed, don't limit it. Do it generously. So 00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:46.119 good. If you've made it this far, you've made 00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:50.840 it to the end of the podcast club. Wow, that 00:50:50.840 --> 00:50:53.599 was like an echo. Did you hear that? It was good. 00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:57.010 An echo in the background. Hey, we would love 00:50:57.010 --> 00:51:01.489 to hear from you. We have a lovely email. It's 00:51:01.489 --> 00:51:03.949 called unedited at heightschurch .com. I just 00:51:03.949 --> 00:51:06.590 double -checked it. You can send us questions. 00:51:06.710 --> 00:51:09.750 You can send us articles. You can send us your 00:51:09.750 --> 00:51:12.010 musings during your Bible study this morning. 00:51:12.110 --> 00:51:14.690 We don't really care. We'd love to hear it. We'd 00:51:14.690 --> 00:51:18.769 love to have a conversation about it. Yeah, and 00:51:18.769 --> 00:51:21.969 just a final thought for today. The Lord is gracious, 00:51:22.130 --> 00:51:24.949 and He is gracious to you. And I hope you find 00:51:24.949 --> 00:51:26.969 that encouraging today. He has not abandoned 00:51:26.969 --> 00:51:30.789 you and he is faithful to complete the work that 00:51:30.789 --> 00:51:34.269 he has begun in you. So with that, so good. That's 00:51:34.269 --> 00:51:35.510 what I got. Love you guys.