WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.780 What's up, Toby? We made it to another week of 00:00:01.780 --> 00:00:07.519 the Processed Step podcast. We're rocking and 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:11.859 rolling today. I want to talk about the importance 00:00:11.859 --> 00:00:18.120 of rituals as it is a cult song, but something 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:22.239 beyond. Okay. How important rituals are in knowledge 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:27.989 work process? Yeah, throw on the chicken bones 00:00:27.989 --> 00:00:31.609 and that whole nine yards. It's a little easy, 00:00:31.609 --> 00:00:34.490 you know, it's just like Do you wear the same 00:00:34.490 --> 00:00:37.950 pair of socks the whole sprint? Where your lucky 00:00:37.950 --> 00:00:41.130 glove what rituals maybe you're thinking of something 00:00:41.130 --> 00:00:43.149 different I mean, I think I think the one that 00:00:43.149 --> 00:00:47.250 most of us think of are the scrum rituals like 00:00:47.250 --> 00:00:51.429 the scrum master and you know that that The scrum 00:00:51.429 --> 00:00:53.329 master is kind of falling out of falling out 00:00:53.329 --> 00:00:59.310 of favor as of late And they were kind of the 00:00:59.310 --> 00:01:02.070 keepers of the rituals, which were, let's meet, 00:01:02.670 --> 00:01:05.150 and let's talk about how we're aligned, let's 00:01:05.150 --> 00:01:06.930 talk about what we're doing, let's talk about 00:01:06.930 --> 00:01:15.870 where we're headed. And I think with kind of 00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:18.689 how I went down this path is I was like, where 00:01:18.689 --> 00:01:22.989 does it break down? Like, when do we as humans 00:01:22.989 --> 00:01:26.950 just do the... people being people type of things 00:01:26.950 --> 00:01:30.230 within work that actually doesn't really add 00:01:30.230 --> 00:01:34.489 any value. Chris, I got to interrupt you for 00:01:34.489 --> 00:01:36.510 a second because I thought we were starting off 00:01:36.510 --> 00:01:39.829 here in the direction of baseball season. And 00:01:39.829 --> 00:01:42.290 I thought you were going to bring up, you know, 00:01:42.450 --> 00:01:46.810 all the crazy rituals and superstitious behaviors 00:01:46.810 --> 00:01:50.569 of baseball guys are leaning into the, you know, 00:01:51.329 --> 00:01:54.599 the Blue Jays and and advertising that they were 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:57.000 running around tariffs. But I love that you've 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:58.620 jumped right into the deep end of the serious 00:01:58.620 --> 00:02:02.239 pool. And so I'll forgo the shenanigans and that 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:04.819 whole rabbit trail that I was already starting 00:02:04.819 --> 00:02:06.739 to brew on. I just I couldn't let it go. I had 00:02:06.739 --> 00:02:10.680 to I had to get back in the game here. So, yes, 00:02:10.900 --> 00:02:14.379 Scrum Masters. It's it's you know, if we step 00:02:14.379 --> 00:02:17.159 back for a second, like just the generic term 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:20.860 of what is a ritual. It feels it feels like a 00:02:20.860 --> 00:02:23.550 shared habit. you know, that being a group would 00:02:23.550 --> 00:02:28.490 participate in. I got to say, you know, so many 00:02:28.490 --> 00:02:30.310 of the Scrum Masters that I've worked with, while 00:02:30.310 --> 00:02:34.169 they've been very, either super effective technology 00:02:34.169 --> 00:02:38.110 leaders or super effective project managers, 00:02:38.810 --> 00:02:41.909 I haven't had the opportunity to work with somebody 00:02:41.909 --> 00:02:45.469 that straddles that line really well and can 00:02:45.469 --> 00:02:47.889 hold these shared habits of both the technical 00:02:47.889 --> 00:02:51.469 team and then Crosswalking it back to the business 00:02:51.469 --> 00:02:54.430 team. Yeah, and so when you know when you made 00:02:54.430 --> 00:02:58.210 the observation that perhaps this The guy wearing 00:02:58.210 --> 00:03:01.009 this ceremonial headdress has disappeared from 00:03:01.009 --> 00:03:03.770 the landscape I can't say I'm completely surprised 00:03:03.770 --> 00:03:07.090 because it did feel like we've struggled To serve 00:03:07.090 --> 00:03:09.310 the two masters, you know, it's a translation 00:03:09.310 --> 00:03:13.270 job. That's not easy. Yeah Well, it's it but 00:03:13.270 --> 00:03:16.069 it's in Well, it's interesting, like a couple 00:03:16.069 --> 00:03:18.449 weeks ago we talked about how I was basically 00:03:18.449 --> 00:03:23.710 rotating the owner of the meeting. Yeah. And 00:03:23.710 --> 00:03:27.590 what's been very interesting about that is that 00:03:27.590 --> 00:03:31.189 you learn that like the way that you do it is 00:03:31.189 --> 00:03:33.169 not how everybody does it, whatever that thing 00:03:33.169 --> 00:03:36.009 is, right? So ours is, you know, doing status 00:03:36.009 --> 00:03:38.930 updates or whatever in that meeting. Yeah. But 00:03:38.930 --> 00:03:42.150 you realize that a lot of times there's a lot 00:03:42.150 --> 00:03:47.319 of fluff. filled in because we are supposed to 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:51.539 do the thing. And we're supposed to do the meeting 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:53.840 and we're supposed to meet with our manager and 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:56.479 we're supposed to do the one -on -one. And we 00:03:56.479 --> 00:04:01.000 forget like, is the purpose of this ritual being 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:05.620 a meeting, is the purpose really to serve the 00:04:05.620 --> 00:04:08.060 manager and give them information or is this 00:04:08.060 --> 00:04:10.159 purpose, is the purpose for the people in the 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:12.860 meeting? We do the boots on the ground. And sometimes 00:04:12.860 --> 00:04:15.560 it's just not clear. And so we just do it because 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:21.680 we've done it for years. It's really true. How 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:24.019 many of these things do we do that are just habitual? 00:04:25.939 --> 00:04:29.100 It's much like putting a bill on auto pay. It's 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:31.000 out of sight, out of mind, and we just go through 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:36.000 it without really engaging. It takes place. I 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.079 think your comment about this new standup approach 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:42.800 and some shared leadership responsibility. I 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:45.980 think that's where classic scrum masters fell 00:04:45.980 --> 00:04:50.379 down was that if they were very technical, they 00:04:50.379 --> 00:04:52.860 didn't lean into what are the business implications 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:54.899 and who else needs to be involved. And so they 00:04:54.899 --> 00:04:57.740 would only speak into the technical team. If 00:04:57.740 --> 00:05:00.160 they weren't technically enough, you know, to 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.300 manage a development sprint, then they oftentimes 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:06.240 seem to be left outside of what was progressing. 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:08.959 And so. You and I are talking about it in terms 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:13.060 of a delivery team and just how we use this daily 00:05:13.060 --> 00:05:16.480 sync up to make sure that everybody's got the 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.879 support they need, which feels a lot healthier 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:23.139 than the very prescriptive scrum that emerged 00:05:23.139 --> 00:05:28.100 in the early 2000s. There is one right way to, 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:30.860 you know, one ritual to rule them all. Well, 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:33.980 I think where it falls down is if you're just 00:05:33.980 --> 00:05:36.680 talking boots on the ground, the manager gets 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:40.000 bored, and or it goes over his head, and so then 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:42.319 he's insecure, and so he has to say something 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:46.100 silly. Or it's just for the manager, which is, 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:49.459 I need to have a status update, which is all 00:05:49.459 --> 00:05:52.360 CYA, right? And so if it's not serving both sides, 00:05:52.459 --> 00:05:55.790 if it's not a two -party agreement, then it just 00:05:55.790 --> 00:05:59.949 breaks down. And so I think it has the meeting, 00:06:00.170 --> 00:06:01.990 whatever the, you know, we're, you know, we're, 00:06:02.129 --> 00:06:04.230 we're talking about the ritual of, you know, 00:06:04.410 --> 00:06:06.589 a standup, but it could be anything, right? Could 00:06:06.589 --> 00:06:08.930 be your QBR. Like if it's service both sides, 00:06:08.949 --> 00:06:12.250 it's going to have more value. So it has to be 00:06:12.250 --> 00:06:14.970 prescriptive, right? Which is like, as a manager, 00:06:15.069 --> 00:06:19.310 I need to know XYZ. As boots on the ground, I 00:06:19.310 --> 00:06:22.029 need to communicate this, or I need to go and 00:06:22.029 --> 00:06:25.040 get help from this is the problem I'm dealing 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:29.500 with. And that ritual, I think, oftentimes breaks 00:06:29.500 --> 00:06:33.660 down because there is no, we keep it all in our 00:06:33.660 --> 00:06:36.879 head, right? Where if you look at a typical scrum, 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:38.879 it's basically just go around the room, tell 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:43.620 a story, tell another story, tell another story. 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:48.600 I think we can actually fill those meetings with 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:53.449 significantly more meat. if we simply were tracking 00:06:53.449 --> 00:06:58.089 what needed to be tracked, right? If we didn't 00:06:58.089 --> 00:07:00.529 just keep it all in our head, right? Which means 00:07:00.529 --> 00:07:04.529 let's go and say, you know, is our Jira hygiene 00:07:04.529 --> 00:07:09.550 correct? Or is our hygiene, and it's not, I can 00:07:09.550 --> 00:07:12.029 give it to you that. But like if we were able 00:07:12.029 --> 00:07:14.410 to just go and say, hey, look, what are we tracking? 00:07:14.529 --> 00:07:16.050 What are the metrics that we're tracking? So 00:07:16.050 --> 00:07:18.310 like we do delivery, so it's like how many hours 00:07:18.310 --> 00:07:21.519 are our delivery team doing? Are we looking at 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:27.180 that every day? It takes 20 seconds to look at 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:29.540 that and say, oh yeah, look, you are filling 00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:33.279 out your, you are doing what we've asked, which 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:38.420 is fill out your time. Yeah. Chris, I think it's 00:07:38.420 --> 00:07:40.860 really interesting too, and when we think about 00:07:40.860 --> 00:07:45.300 this idea of ritual, the... What I what I was 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:47.079 thinking about as you were saying that really 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:49.240 made me think about what is our but what's our 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:51.220 objective? What's the desired outcome that we're 00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:57.000 working? and Yeah, and as I often do dating myself, 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.660 you know one of the most effective Teams I worked 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:03.060 with was in the early 2000s and this was a manager 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:06.120 that used a whiteboard to track what we were 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:09.759 signing up for I was doing sales operations and 00:08:10.329 --> 00:08:12.949 It was really as simple as just who made this 00:08:12.949 --> 00:08:16.149 request of our team? What's the request? And 00:08:16.149 --> 00:08:20.790 then who's got the rock? And we'd grab a cup 00:08:20.790 --> 00:08:23.389 of coffee. We'd look at the board together. And 00:08:23.389 --> 00:08:25.970 it wasn't even every day. It was usually like, 00:08:26.129 --> 00:08:28.209 Hey, I've got some updates I have to give today. 00:08:28.329 --> 00:08:30.449 Can you guys just give verbally? Give me some 00:08:30.449 --> 00:08:32.929 updates. We'd do this three or three times through 00:08:32.929 --> 00:08:35.909 the week, depending on how big and messy stuff 00:08:35.909 --> 00:08:39.970 was. But what was fascinating was to your point. 00:08:40.169 --> 00:08:43.970 we knew why we were convening. And it's like, 00:08:43.970 --> 00:08:46.470 as a team, we have to represent how much or how 00:08:46.470 --> 00:08:49.210 little capacity we have and whether we're still 00:08:49.210 --> 00:08:51.850 on track. And that's all he really needed to 00:08:51.850 --> 00:08:54.690 know. But when he left that room, he was prepared 00:08:54.690 --> 00:08:58.429 to defend his resources to say, my team is fully 00:08:58.429 --> 00:09:01.909 deployed or my team has capacity. What's that 00:09:01.909 --> 00:09:04.710 next highest priority? But it led us, it focused 00:09:04.710 --> 00:09:08.309 on the work. instead of having people do flybys 00:09:08.309 --> 00:09:10.809 and make requests. We don't have that much in 00:09:10.809 --> 00:09:15.610 a virtual world and yet Slack is the modern flyby, 00:09:15.950 --> 00:09:19.470 where it's like, hey, Chris, could you pause 00:09:19.470 --> 00:09:22.009 everything you're doing today and give me five 00:09:22.009 --> 00:09:26.330 hours of your attention. Well, so let's talk 00:09:26.330 --> 00:09:28.049 about, so you've implemented this new ritual 00:09:28.049 --> 00:09:30.350 with the delivery team where you guys are rotating 00:09:30.350 --> 00:09:33.429 the facility responsibilities. What are you starting 00:09:33.429 --> 00:09:36.519 to see? As terms, you know as this starts to 00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:38.960 evolve changing habits here it you know, it's 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:42.200 been really it's it's been very positive mostly 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:48.659 because if it basically sheds a light on how 00:09:48.659 --> 00:09:55.299 loose the ritual is Meaning what what dashboard 00:09:55.299 --> 00:09:59.820 do I go to right like like a very very tactical? 00:10:00.820 --> 00:10:04.529 Things when you hand it off to someone else And 00:10:04.529 --> 00:10:08.649 it's not defined. You don't, you don't. Like 00:10:08.649 --> 00:10:11.629 it's very difficult for the people running the 00:10:11.629 --> 00:10:13.269 meeting. It's like, oh no, you got to go click 00:10:13.269 --> 00:10:14.929 on this thing. And then they're like, okay, now 00:10:14.929 --> 00:10:17.190 I'm oriented because we've gone through this 00:10:17.190 --> 00:10:20.309 thing. But some of it, it has to be very prescriptive. 00:10:20.710 --> 00:10:24.529 And I think most people are afraid to make those 00:10:24.529 --> 00:10:27.649 rituals more prescriptive because they change, 00:10:27.830 --> 00:10:31.610 because there's this assumption that the world 00:10:31.610 --> 00:10:35.379 is this changing mess. that has to be managed. 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:39.320 And if you have, you know, our standups are three 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.080 times a week where if you have this standup and 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.840 you're following your agenda, if it changes, 00:10:47.019 --> 00:10:50.460 you just go update the agenda. It's not difficult, 00:10:50.980 --> 00:10:53.759 but it's very difficult to get humans who are 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:56.299 going to feel like failures because they don't 00:10:56.299 --> 00:10:58.700 run the perfect standup. It's easier basically 00:10:58.700 --> 00:11:05.200 to not fill them with meat. it just kind of gloss 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:08.440 over everything. Like we're assuming we know 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:11.480 what's supposed to be going on or what the status 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.679 should be. And we don't realize that from our 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:20.600 lens, oftentimes we're 90 % covered. But if you 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:23.519 go into someone else's lens, they're going to 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:25.919 view it completely different and you're going 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:29.779 to be like, oh, I completely missed that. It's 00:11:29.779 --> 00:11:32.950 been really fascinating because even One of the 00:11:32.950 --> 00:11:34.629 things that I said is I was like, Hey, we're 00:11:34.629 --> 00:11:38.169 going to have a scribe. Right. And my concept 00:11:38.169 --> 00:11:40.750 of what that scribe was, was that someone was 00:11:40.750 --> 00:11:44.610 going to basically write down action item, operational 00:11:44.610 --> 00:11:46.950 action items and take them back. Right. So this 00:11:46.950 --> 00:11:50.230 is my idea. Right. I throw out scribe. What happens 00:11:50.230 --> 00:11:53.929 is our colleague goes and actually starts taking 00:11:53.929 --> 00:11:58.409 notes on the actual updates. And I'm like, that's 00:11:58.409 --> 00:12:01.250 even better. And I was like, I would have never 00:12:01.250 --> 00:12:04.399 thought of that. But he took what I said and 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:07.639 made it better. And so it was just this, this 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:10.519 kind of this fascinating, like, oh, like if we 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:13.440 all own, if we all own the meeting, we're going 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.679 to fill this thing and make sure that it's a 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:19.120 high, it's a high value effort versus the manager 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.600 owns it. He's going to talk at, he's going to 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:24.059 talk at us for 15 minutes or half an hour, an 00:12:24.059 --> 00:12:27.200 hour, however long this meeting lasts. And then 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:29.940 we'll be done. Which is interesting because I've 00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:31.779 had those meetings where it's like, all right, 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.059 this is the put me in coach meeting where it's 00:12:35.059 --> 00:12:37.080 like, I'm going to do the rah rah rah. We're 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.220 going to go, we're going to go win. I'm not sure 00:12:39.220 --> 00:12:41.840 what game we're playing or what sports ball we're 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:47.120 doing. But, but like I have had those where it's 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:49.639 where every week you're like, ah, this is where 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:52.139 I get to make fun of my boss or my boss's boss 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:55.240 because, because I, because I don't know why 00:12:55.240 --> 00:13:01.029 I'm here. Yeah. Chris, I love what you're seeing 00:13:01.029 --> 00:13:04.830 evolve in introducing more shared responsibility. 00:13:04.970 --> 00:13:07.029 It makes me think, a good friend years ago, and 00:13:07.029 --> 00:13:10.789 I've continued to share it, and too often I probably 00:13:10.789 --> 00:13:13.289 claim it as my own brilliant idea, but it was 00:13:13.289 --> 00:13:17.669 simply this idea of loose and tight. And we don't 00:13:17.669 --> 00:13:21.090 want to walk into a meeting or a situation where 00:13:21.090 --> 00:13:24.110 everything's so loose that there's no parameters 00:13:24.110 --> 00:13:27.720 because we're lost. And it becomes a bit of a 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:29.679 personality battle. You know, somebody tries 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:32.860 to establish some order. Conversely, if it's 00:13:32.860 --> 00:13:36.299 so tight, there's no room for meaningful conversation 00:13:36.299 --> 00:13:38.700 that didn't make the original agenda. And then 00:13:38.700 --> 00:13:40.820 it feels like we perceive the wrong things. And 00:13:40.820 --> 00:13:44.179 so what I love about this is, you know, what 00:13:44.179 --> 00:13:46.179 I'm hearing you describe in terms of ritual is. 00:13:46.330 --> 00:13:49.809 let's be clear or let's be tight around the recurring 00:13:49.809 --> 00:13:52.669 things that keep us focused and on track to use 00:13:52.669 --> 00:13:55.450 for time. But then let's also be loose enough 00:13:55.450 --> 00:13:58.529 that if there's nothing critical, we can we can 00:13:58.529 --> 00:14:01.850 jump it. Or if there's a new concept, we've anticipated 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:03.490 that this is going to happen. And so there's 00:14:03.490 --> 00:14:05.710 a part of the meeting where we always ask, is 00:14:05.710 --> 00:14:07.330 there something new or something else we need 00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:10.070 to cover? But I think there's a comfort that 00:14:10.070 --> 00:14:13.019 comes from. that repetition, kind of like the 00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:15.639 autopay again, where if I know that every meeting 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:17.820 has kind of four parts to it, even if I come 00:14:17.820 --> 00:14:20.019 in a little bit late because I'm not able to 00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:22.700 get off a client call fast enough or I've had 00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:25.320 a hard morning before a morning meeting, when 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:28.100 I show up, I know what part of the meeting we're 00:14:28.100 --> 00:14:31.820 in simply because of that basic structure, the 00:14:31.820 --> 00:14:34.059 tight parameters that are always predictable. 00:14:34.899 --> 00:14:37.649 I feel like... from a decision, you know, so 00:14:37.649 --> 00:14:40.409 many of us will think about being exhausted and 00:14:40.409 --> 00:14:42.549 so much of it's our executive function, running 00:14:42.549 --> 00:14:46.289 and over. And if we have to bring some kind of 00:14:46.289 --> 00:14:48.549 context or organization to every discussion, 00:14:49.029 --> 00:14:52.929 that's fatiguing. But if it becomes a familiar 00:14:52.929 --> 00:14:56.409 kind of meeting, if the ritual, right, this recurring 00:14:56.409 --> 00:15:00.769 shared approach is familiar, it feels very natural. 00:15:00.909 --> 00:15:03.429 And I can just kind of glide into it. Well, and 00:15:03.429 --> 00:15:06.830 the other thing is... The other thing that's 00:15:06.830 --> 00:15:10.029 interesting is we literally put this on a dock 00:15:10.029 --> 00:15:13.629 of like, what's important for our Monday meeting? 00:15:14.370 --> 00:15:16.710 What's important for our Wednesday meeting? What's 00:15:16.710 --> 00:15:20.129 important for our Friday meeting? And because 00:15:20.129 --> 00:15:22.269 the reality is like you go into a meeting and 00:15:22.269 --> 00:15:26.029 our braids can really only hold on to five plus 00:15:26.029 --> 00:15:28.590 or minus two, right? Like that's the capacity. 00:15:29.710 --> 00:15:33.389 And so if you don't go back to what am I actually 00:15:33.389 --> 00:15:37.259 doing? you're just gonna miss. And it's not like 00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:39.659 we sit around, not very many people sit around 00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:41.740 and think, gosh, well, how can I make my stand 00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:45.080 up better? Like those are for the odd ducks that 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:49.220 create a process that podcasts. But yeah, just, 00:15:49.419 --> 00:15:53.940 you know, and sharing that for a friend. Anyway, 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.919 but what's interesting about that is if you can 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:02.950 have an agenda, you can make sure that you're 00:16:02.950 --> 00:16:05.789 hitting that thing that only takes 20 seconds, 00:16:06.350 --> 00:16:12.950 but you're just making sure it's done. And it's 00:16:12.950 --> 00:16:15.649 that tightening of those very loose things that 00:16:15.649 --> 00:16:18.889 maybe once every month is gonna have an exception. 00:16:20.009 --> 00:16:24.389 It's pulling those exceptions so that your work 00:16:24.389 --> 00:16:28.509 can be more elegant. And I guess that to kind 00:16:28.509 --> 00:16:31.690 of... put a cherry on this. It's just, if you're 00:16:31.690 --> 00:16:34.690 doing something ritually, you can actually make 00:16:34.690 --> 00:16:37.289 it better if you just sit down and have some 00:16:37.289 --> 00:16:40.190 discipline and say, look, this is what we're 00:16:40.190 --> 00:16:43.230 going to do. This is what this meeting is going 00:16:43.230 --> 00:16:46.429 to be. These are the pages that I'm going to 00:16:46.429 --> 00:16:49.529 go to to see if we're tracking, to make sure 00:16:49.529 --> 00:16:55.370 that we're managing the little loosey goose things 00:16:55.370 --> 00:16:58.840 as humans that we just dropped. that it's not 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:01.120 a big deal if we drop them, but it's a big deal 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.500 if you wait three months and you've dropped 300. 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.000 100%. Here's what I love that you're calling 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:11.000 out again. It's hitting me in a certain way today, 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.519 but it's very much this ritual in service to 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:19.019 results. Correct. So many rituals, you know, 00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:21.720 in our early life are without, they're mystical, 00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:24.299 right? Why do I have to brush my teeth? Why do 00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:27.220 I have to go to bed? And then we continue to 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:31.019 those habits as we get older. And hopefully at 00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:33.180 some point we realize the ritual of brushing 00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:37.420 teeth is in service to fewer root canals or ritual 00:17:37.420 --> 00:17:39.380 of going to bed at a consistent time is that 00:17:39.380 --> 00:17:43.559 we feel better. And so that results oriented 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:46.160 ritual where there is an intended outcome and 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.619 people understand the outcome. I almost feel 00:17:48.619 --> 00:17:52.160 like we do a better job of clarifying why we 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.339 do things with adults so that then they can have 00:17:55.339 --> 00:17:58.670 the end in mind. And I wonder sometimes if we 00:17:58.670 --> 00:18:00.869 continue to introduce rituals in the workplace 00:18:00.869 --> 00:18:03.410 the same way we do with our kids, right? Where 00:18:03.410 --> 00:18:05.750 we say, just go do it, go put on your pajamas. 00:18:06.890 --> 00:18:10.230 You know? Because I've had so, and that top -debt 00:18:10.230 --> 00:18:13.490 model just always fails. It falls apart at the 00:18:13.490 --> 00:18:15.470 first opportunity for people to scamper. Well, 00:18:15.630 --> 00:18:20.289 it just kills safety. It does, yeah. We live 00:18:20.289 --> 00:18:24.170 in an economy. Like if you go back, I mean, you 00:18:24.170 --> 00:18:26.369 know, we talk about oftentimes if you go back, 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.059 to our human ancestry, that ritual was really 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:32.440 important for the person that was going through 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.319 the ritual and the community that was performing 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:38.500 the ritual. Like there was a sense of stability, 00:18:38.859 --> 00:18:42.599 a sense of security, a sense of let's go, like 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:46.019 a sense of place, right? Which I think most people 00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:50.160 have lost their sense of place. I think that's 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.640 really true. different from the ritual you're 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:55.579 describing three times a week. One of the rituals 00:18:55.579 --> 00:18:59.660 that we do every Friday, as we do just a weekly 00:18:59.660 --> 00:19:02.660 check -in with the broader team, is this idea 00:19:02.660 --> 00:19:08.019 of recognition. And I feel like every team has 00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:13.160 these pockets of final deliverable or breakthrough 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:16.140 progress or exceptional conversations. One of 00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:17.740 the things I've loved over the last couple of 00:19:17.740 --> 00:19:20.200 years at Magic Bend Labs is that we do take a 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.119 moment to celebrate and recognize one another. 00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:25.779 And I feel like, you know, to your point about 00:19:25.779 --> 00:19:28.180 not just for the individual, but for the community, 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.640 I think that it's a bonding exercise where we 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:34.180 get to just, you know, recognize somebody and 00:19:34.180 --> 00:19:37.359 give them a shout out. It feels good to be recognized, 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.319 but it also feels good to acknowledge the good 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:43.779 work of somebody else. And so, yeah, love this 00:19:43.779 --> 00:19:46.359 discussion about ritual. It's so powerful. Cool. 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:50.279 Thanks, sir. I made it through another one. Let's 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:52.720 do it have a great Friday. See ya