WEBVTT 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:03.299 Hey, what's up, man? We made it to another week. 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:06.580 Oh, happy Friday. And since we've done this for 00:00:06.580 --> 00:00:11.320 a year, guess what we get to do? We get to do 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:16.379 a year in review. Hang on. Yeah, you know what? 00:00:16.379 --> 00:00:18.140 I remember when we first set out on this little 00:00:18.140 --> 00:00:22.219 venture, and kind of like my experience in gardening, 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:23.859 it was kind of like, let's just see if we can 00:00:23.859 --> 00:00:26.879 get to our first milestone, which was, and I 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:28.480 remember you saying, it's a low bar, Toby. It's 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:33.939 only one a week. And, uh, there were weeks where 00:00:33.939 --> 00:00:36.119 it was kind of a struggle, you know, where it'd 00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:40.439 be like a, uh, 11th hour call. Let's jump on 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.079 and make a recording. So yeah, I'd love to hear, 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:45.000 I'd love to hear, uh, on reflection. What are 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.780 some of the, maybe some of the episodes or topics 00:00:47.780 --> 00:00:50.159 that stand out to you? Yeah, let's go back. If 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:54.140 we go back to one of our first ones, which was. 00:00:54.619 --> 00:00:59.140 Process it process has to be discoverable and 00:00:59.140 --> 00:01:03.799 transferable. I love it. Number, that was episode 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:06.780 two. That was an early on, but it was early. 00:01:06.780 --> 00:01:09.040 A really cool tenant that we talked about. Yeah, 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:13.560 and I think most of the time, process is driven 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:17.739 from above, right? So a manager, an executive 00:01:17.739 --> 00:01:21.900 says, we're gonna go do a thing. Which basically 00:01:21.900 --> 00:01:24.420 does the telephone game down to the boots and 00:01:24.420 --> 00:01:28.609 the ground. And at the end, you end up with the 00:01:28.609 --> 00:01:30.010 telephone game, which is like, we don't know 00:01:30.010 --> 00:01:31.549 what we're doing and we don't know what was said 00:01:31.549 --> 00:01:35.269 originally, but we're doing a thing because nothing 00:01:35.269 --> 00:01:38.049 is more permanent than a temporary solution. 00:01:41.390 --> 00:01:45.329 Nothing is more permanent except for a one -time 00:01:45.329 --> 00:01:47.890 modeling exercise in Excel that becomes an integral 00:01:47.890 --> 00:01:51.250 part of every month's reporting. We cover that 00:01:51.250 --> 00:01:54.640 somewhere out there, but yes. Process is not 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.420 typically this intelligent design. It's usually 00:01:57.420 --> 00:02:01.019 like ad hoc bubble gum and duct tape until we 00:02:01.019 --> 00:02:03.519 realize it's bubble gum and duct tape. So correct 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:05.500 and transferable and discoverable though. Talk 00:02:05.500 --> 00:02:08.180 about, talk about those key elements that we 00:02:08.180 --> 00:02:10.379 first touched. I think if you have a process 00:02:10.379 --> 00:02:12.979 that's discoverable, meaning I can find it and 00:02:12.979 --> 00:02:15.159 I had a new know how to do the thing, whatever 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:17.199 the thing is, even if the thing is running a 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:20.419 meeting. Um, it has to be, you have to be able 00:02:20.419 --> 00:02:25.699 to go find it somewhere. Right and then the other 00:02:25.699 --> 00:02:32.259 the other key is like, okay Is it transferable 00:02:32.259 --> 00:02:36.259 meaning like if you and I went to NASA and we 00:02:36.259 --> 00:02:40.780 picked up a document on you know nuclear something 00:02:40.780 --> 00:02:46.479 or other or Transfusion or fuel usage it right? 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:50.639 It would not be transferable, but that's a bit 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:52.900 of a funny story, but that's kind of how we do 00:02:52.900 --> 00:02:56.039 our process, right? Where one person builds it. 00:02:56.699 --> 00:02:58.240 They think everybody thinks the way that they 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:02.300 do. And so the process is elegant, but it's for 00:03:02.300 --> 00:03:05.939 them, but it's not transferable to anyone. Boy, 00:03:06.580 --> 00:03:09.759 it's so true, right? Even if you can find it, 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:12.379 can you do anything with it? And ultimately, 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:15.340 therein lies the conundrum. As we build process 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:18.020 and as we bring people in to use the processes 00:03:18.020 --> 00:03:22.099 we've designed, can they make good use of it? 00:03:22.340 --> 00:03:25.300 And can they take over ownership when we're ready 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:27.680 to move on to the next thing? Which I think, 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:29.560 as I recall, that was probably a key element 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:31.840 we talked about, because you and I are a bit 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:34.639 of restless souls. We're happy to build it, but 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:36.560 it doesn't mean that we want to be there forever 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.599 during the feeding and maintenance. And some 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:45.379 folks, that's where they thrive. Yep. Well, I 00:03:45.379 --> 00:03:47.120 think the other thing we talked about is like, 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.000 in order for something to be discoverable and 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:52.919 transferable, it's one thing if it's a one -off, 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:54.900 but if you're going to be doing the same thing 00:03:54.900 --> 00:03:59.120 in three years or six months, you approach it 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:00.979 a little bit differently. You approach it with 00:04:00.979 --> 00:04:04.719 an iterative model, not with the, here's my PowerPoint, 00:04:04.860 --> 00:04:06.939 it's complete, do the meeting and we're done. 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:10.689 Right. But the silly thing is most businesses 00:04:10.689 --> 00:04:14.550 run most of their processes like it's a PowerPoint, 00:04:14.810 --> 00:04:17.170 it's delivered, mic drop, and we're out. And 00:04:17.170 --> 00:04:18.949 all the people are left picking up the pieces 00:04:18.949 --> 00:04:22.110 and they don't know how or what the next steps 00:04:22.110 --> 00:04:26.170 are. Chris, the piece that I'll touch on that 00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:27.810 comes to mind, and I don't know that we necessarily 00:04:27.810 --> 00:04:31.449 covered it at the time, but it is a very specific 00:04:31.449 --> 00:04:37.529 gift to be able to... Turn an idea into a repeatable 00:04:37.529 --> 00:04:42.069 process and I think that too often times, you 00:04:42.069 --> 00:04:46.829 know There's certain functions that do get romanticized 00:04:46.829 --> 00:04:48.910 or oh my gosh Wouldn't it be nice to only be 00:04:48.910 --> 00:04:50.949 worrying about new things and not taking care 00:04:50.949 --> 00:04:54.610 of the business that we've built Yeah, and so 00:04:54.610 --> 00:04:57.009 that the piece maybe that I'll offer just my 00:04:57.009 --> 00:04:58.889 final thought around transferable and discoverable 00:04:58.889 --> 00:05:01.870 is that recognizing those people that Develop 00:05:01.870 --> 00:05:05.189 process that is easily discoverable that feels 00:05:05.189 --> 00:05:08.569 intuitive Yep, those people are the crown jewels. 00:05:08.610 --> 00:05:12.790 That's how you scale any organization Yep, because 00:05:12.790 --> 00:05:14.670 they have to make everybody feel part of the 00:05:14.670 --> 00:05:17.250 community instead of always on the outside So 00:05:17.250 --> 00:05:19.649 episode two was transferable and discoverable. 00:05:19.670 --> 00:05:22.449 Yep, and I would say that those like those people 00:05:22.449 --> 00:05:25.670 are your biggest levers Gosh, because if you 00:05:25.670 --> 00:05:28.569 if you can and the reality is that if you can 00:05:28.569 --> 00:05:34.490 leverage for deep That's where scale comes from. 00:05:35.670 --> 00:05:39.209 All right, next favorite topic from last year. 00:05:39.750 --> 00:05:41.569 I don't remember exactly what episode, I think 00:05:41.569 --> 00:05:44.449 you have this, but was when we talked about Elon 00:05:44.449 --> 00:05:49.970 entering the government and the process that 00:05:49.970 --> 00:05:53.170 he would run into, which is not his corporation. 00:05:55.050 --> 00:05:58.500 It's funny because... Elon's been a recurring 00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:02.360 topic, probably in a lot of conversations over 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:05.259 the last year, but yeah, this was early December, 00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:08.519 episode nine last year, when all of a sudden 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:10.259 we were talking about what the heck is going 00:06:10.259 --> 00:06:17.399 on? You know? Yeah. What is it that, you know, 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:19.519 as you think back to that, you know, we had, 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:21.819 we were kind of talking about at this point, 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:26.379 he had his Doge organization that - Yep. Eliminate 00:06:26.379 --> 00:06:29.899 all the dumb processes. Yep. So what is it that's 00:06:29.899 --> 00:06:32.360 sticking in your brain from from that first one? 00:06:33.220 --> 00:06:35.399 You know, we first started talking about what 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:38.699 is this? What does this look like? I mean, I 00:06:38.699 --> 00:06:40.920 would say that I mean, I'd have to go back and 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:43.800 listen, but I would say that we predicted the 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:47.639 challenge accurately and wrongly at the same 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:51.579 time. Right. Meaning we predicted the difficulty 00:06:51.579 --> 00:06:54.490 that he would run into. Yeah, I don't think we 00:06:54.490 --> 00:06:57.810 necessarily predicted how like how it would end 00:06:57.810 --> 00:07:00.410 up where it really became You know, you've got 00:07:00.410 --> 00:07:03.709 two alphas, you know two billionaires in a squabble. 00:07:03.709 --> 00:07:06.170 Like I didn't we didn't necessarily predict that 00:07:06.170 --> 00:07:09.949 Right and it's very interesting because you know, 00:07:09.949 --> 00:07:12.410 they have they have you know Elon had to play 00:07:12.410 --> 00:07:16.949 by some set of rules that he didn't like And 00:07:16.949 --> 00:07:20.509 bended that bent, you know did what CEOs do oftentimes 00:07:20.509 --> 00:07:24.430 which is bending their reality with their distortion 00:07:24.430 --> 00:07:27.430 field or whatever. I think you say that well. 00:07:27.730 --> 00:07:34.230 You say it better than I do. But I think he leaned 00:07:34.230 --> 00:07:38.410 into the marketing, which I think if you were 00:07:38.410 --> 00:07:42.589 to go back and do an analysis of it, it was mostly 00:07:42.589 --> 00:07:48.050 marketing. It totally was. the master of the 00:07:48.050 --> 00:07:50.610 hype cycle. And yeah, the first time I'd heard 00:07:50.610 --> 00:07:53.550 that phrase, the reality distortion field was 00:07:53.550 --> 00:07:56.910 credited Steve Jobs because he could walk into 00:07:56.910 --> 00:07:59.769 a room and basically make people believe in something 00:07:59.769 --> 00:08:02.750 that they'd never seen, tasted, touched, or experienced 00:08:02.750 --> 00:08:06.589 and catapulted us forward. And I think Elon evidences 00:08:06.589 --> 00:08:12.649 that same kind of wild gift in a way that grows 00:08:12.649 --> 00:08:18.459 things. It is funny, though, to watch two alphas 00:08:18.459 --> 00:08:20.740 probably who both thought the other one was working 00:08:20.740 --> 00:08:25.300 for them, right? And they were both kind of confounded. 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:29.319 And a little bit of ketamine in the mix doesn't 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:31.920 necessarily make very predictable outcomes. But 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:35.399 you're right. We had, at that point in time, 00:08:36.620 --> 00:08:39.419 people that we'd never heard of were given access 00:08:39.419 --> 00:08:43.409 to the most proprietary data, which You know, 00:08:43.529 --> 00:08:45.570 the subsequent year, it's been unclear where 00:08:45.570 --> 00:08:48.210 some of that landed, but it does raise this question 00:08:48.210 --> 00:08:51.110 of what does that mean? And what, a year on, 00:08:51.710 --> 00:08:54.289 you know, what unintended consequences are going 00:08:54.289 --> 00:08:56.769 to happen? I'm sure that the team that went in 00:08:56.769 --> 00:09:01.049 was very good at transferring data and digging 00:09:01.049 --> 00:09:03.629 in and discovering what was available. And we 00:09:03.629 --> 00:09:07.450 know the data today is the same as Crown Jewels. 00:09:07.529 --> 00:09:10.779 You know, it's a fountain for sure. so much of 00:09:10.779 --> 00:09:14.940 our world revolves around trading data. But I 00:09:14.940 --> 00:09:18.159 found it really fascinating that it was a little 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.200 bit of the Dunning -Kruger effect that I know 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:21.940 we've touched on several times where you know 00:09:21.940 --> 00:09:24.460 a little bit and you feel brilliant. And then 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:26.080 all of a sudden you learn a little bit more and 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:30.419 only then begin to realize how novice you are 00:09:30.419 --> 00:09:34.340 on the topic. And I think that that first collision 00:09:34.340 --> 00:09:40.500 of very smart, savvy, data -minded people They 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:44.059 just ran roughshod over what has been long standing 00:09:44.059 --> 00:09:47.200 process that's been built over decades in our 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:51.100 young country. And so that was a, what a swirl, 00:09:51.100 --> 00:09:53.980 you know, enriched. Oh yeah. Well, what's interesting 00:09:53.980 --> 00:09:57.519 is like they were even publishing on their site 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:01.379 on all the things that, all the projects that 00:10:01.379 --> 00:10:03.620 they could figure out and they were doing it, 00:10:03.620 --> 00:10:07.190 it was all veiled, right? And the New York Times 00:10:07.190 --> 00:10:11.129 found within their HTML, they included the actual 00:10:11.129 --> 00:10:15.009 like the requisition or number so that they could 00:10:15.009 --> 00:10:18.830 actually go back and fact -check them. Well, 00:10:19.169 --> 00:10:20.909 then they discovered it and then it disappeared. 00:10:21.250 --> 00:10:24.090 And so like what's interesting is they did a 00:10:24.090 --> 00:10:30.710 bit of a shell game because people want to believe 00:10:30.710 --> 00:10:34.029 that governments are inefficient. And the reality 00:10:34.029 --> 00:10:38.769 is, roads cost something. I mean, the system 00:10:38.769 --> 00:10:42.470 of giving us infrastructure that no private company 00:10:42.470 --> 00:10:45.570 is ever going to want to pay for is expensive. 00:10:48.029 --> 00:10:55.490 Yeah. Where's my ROI on clean water? It's a weird 00:10:55.490 --> 00:10:59.210 world, and I'm willing to bet we touched on it 00:10:59.210 --> 00:11:01.570 back in the day, but as I sit here now, kind 00:11:01.570 --> 00:11:04.620 of rehashing our best recollection of it, It's 00:11:04.620 --> 00:11:08.440 a strange thing when those things that we might 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:11.200 otherwise think of as inalienable rights in a 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.799 first world country, just basic access to food, 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:17.000 water, shelter and purpose, right? The ability 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:18.740 to get up in the morning and make a contribution 00:11:18.740 --> 00:11:23.919 of some sort that people feel increasingly separated 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:26.379 at times or like those things are no longer accessible. 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:30.240 And so I remember at the moment it was both, 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:34.409 I'm not a big fan boy, but I also much like I'll 00:11:34.409 --> 00:11:36.870 say Mitch McConnell is wildly effective regardless 00:11:36.870 --> 00:11:40.470 of your political leanings, Elon has also proven 00:11:40.470 --> 00:11:44.529 to be a wildly effective individual in terms 00:11:44.529 --> 00:11:48.610 of marshaling large teams and doing previously 00:11:48.610 --> 00:11:52.690 unimaginable things. And so in the moment I was 00:11:52.690 --> 00:11:56.110 concerned and also a little bit fascinated. And 00:11:56.110 --> 00:11:59.720 now a year on, It's fallen out of the news cycles 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.919 behind the million and one other things including 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:08.500 the frog marching arm -in -arm with inflatable 00:12:08.500 --> 00:12:11.460 unicorns here in the war zone of Portland. That's 00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:14.080 right. You are close to the war zone. Be safe, 00:12:14.179 --> 00:12:18.480 my friend. Let's shift topics to one of the ones 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:23.590 that we did later, which is why in business, 00:12:23.590 --> 00:12:30.110 oftentimes there is this idea of, there's this 00:12:30.110 --> 00:12:37.129 idea of make versus buy. And we spent some time 00:12:37.129 --> 00:12:42.850 talking about try versus buy. Yeah. This was, 00:12:43.110 --> 00:12:47.129 this was episode 43. So it was a late spring, 00:12:47.149 --> 00:12:50.169 early summer. Yep. Thanks with you about this. 00:12:50.230 --> 00:12:53.200 Cause I really liked the language of try versus 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:57.159 buy instead of make. Make so much certainty to 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.539 it, as I recall, that I like this idea of try 00:13:00.539 --> 00:13:05.600 versus buy. I think if you found those magical 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:08.539 people that understood process and you could 00:13:08.539 --> 00:13:10.700 just send them loose and give them a charter 00:13:10.700 --> 00:13:13.320 and fixing things with the boots in the ground, 00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:16.620 I think you would almost always win with try. 00:13:17.500 --> 00:13:22.759 As long as you had an executive sponsor. I can't 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:27.139 think of any tool out there that is not bad -mouthed 00:13:27.139 --> 00:13:31.980 when some human goes and mucks it up. Including 00:13:31.980 --> 00:13:37.059 a shovel. That's my favorite example, like perhaps 00:13:37.059 --> 00:13:39.299 one of the simplest tools, but if you've ever 00:13:39.299 --> 00:13:43.460 tried to spade a garden with a dull shovel and 00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:47.179 then been given a sharpened shovel, it feels 00:13:47.179 --> 00:13:51.259 like your muscles have redoubled, you know? The 00:13:51.259 --> 00:13:53.080 same, the same, I guess would be true of trying 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:56.919 to chop firewood with a dull axe versus, you 00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:59.240 know, having a sharpened axe for the task. Yeah. 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:02.559 And to your point about try, it's a little bit 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:06.120 of learning and also not assuming that you know 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:07.740 everything right out of the gates. There's a 00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:10.100 discovery and it's uncomfortable and it makes 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:13.179 us feel stupid and incompetent. And that usually 00:14:13.179 --> 00:14:16.799 means we're learning something. Yep. So try versus 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:19.639 buy. Buy is fast. Especially if we have the right 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:22.279 experts at the table. What's interesting about 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:27.940 buying is it can be a fool's errand. And what 00:14:27.940 --> 00:14:31.860 I mean by that is the difficulty is getting the 00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:36.340 budget allocated. And then once the budget is 00:14:36.340 --> 00:14:39.480 allocated, basically people just expect it to 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.899 match the marketing that is on whatever website 00:14:42.899 --> 00:14:46.340 of the SaaS system that you just went and bought. 00:14:47.019 --> 00:14:53.860 Yeah. And so the executives kind of have their 00:14:53.860 --> 00:14:56.620 ability to let go once the budget is allocated 00:14:56.620 --> 00:15:01.720 versus the people that are left to implement. 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:05.779 And oftentimes by that time, you know, the executive 00:15:05.779 --> 00:15:09.840 or the sponsor has changed their focus to the 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:15.330 next fire. When I've been successful at just 00:15:15.330 --> 00:15:17.529 implementing new process and new SaaS tools, 00:15:17.710 --> 00:15:21.669 you just have a very, very strong executive sponsor. 00:15:22.029 --> 00:15:24.669 And I've been able to work with the boots on 00:15:24.669 --> 00:15:28.690 the ground. And some of my proudest moments are 00:15:28.690 --> 00:15:31.549 when I've created something with people that 00:15:31.549 --> 00:15:33.250 are actually going to be using it on a day in 00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:36.370 and day out basis. And they're providing really 00:15:36.370 --> 00:15:40.970 great feedback in what should be done. And sometimes 00:15:40.970 --> 00:15:43.470 it's, you know, I oftentimes go back to, you 00:15:43.470 --> 00:15:48.009 know, the Six Sigma, which is, you know, really 00:15:48.009 --> 00:15:51.889 an operational item and not necessarily a process 00:15:51.889 --> 00:15:54.970 thing, but I think, you know, I think one sigma 00:15:54.970 --> 00:16:00.529 is 66%, two sigmas, you know, two sigmas, I think 00:16:00.529 --> 00:16:04.950 85, and then you get to 90, or then you get to 00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:09.610 95 and 97. But the difficulty of moving up that 00:16:09.610 --> 00:16:13.990 rate in the sigmas is exponentially difficult. 00:16:14.710 --> 00:16:18.529 And most of the time, people want that 99 .9 00:16:18.529 --> 00:16:22.429 % accuracy out of their process, whereas it would 00:16:22.429 --> 00:16:24.549 be three times as easy if you just dropped three 00:16:24.549 --> 00:16:27.129 percentage points and just went to 97 point whatever. 00:16:28.330 --> 00:16:31.269 Yeah. I mean, Chris, it's an interesting point 00:16:31.269 --> 00:16:36.639 you make. Six Sigma allows for three defects 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:43.559 per million. Can you imagine if all of our business 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.059 processes were operating like that? Not that 00:16:46.059 --> 00:16:49.200 every transaction goes through smoothly, but 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.500 that we're finding the defects early enough on 00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:54.340 that they don't get to the end of it in their 00:16:54.340 --> 00:16:58.919 errors. Three errors per million. Payroll teams 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:02.470 would love that. I love your point though that 00:17:02.470 --> 00:17:05.150 as we think about try versus buy into your example 00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:07.029 about working directly with people that have 00:17:07.029 --> 00:17:10.029 to take ownership of the process once it's completed, 00:17:10.849 --> 00:17:13.190 the more we involve them in it, the earlier that 00:17:13.190 --> 00:17:17.190 ownership begins and the less wasted energy just 00:17:17.190 --> 00:17:19.849 as we have to give those operational teams that 00:17:19.849 --> 00:17:22.930 little bit of breathing room to be present to 00:17:22.930 --> 00:17:25.410 the conversations and to bring their expertise 00:17:25.410 --> 00:17:28.250 into the dialogue so that as we build process, 00:17:28.250 --> 00:17:31.210 as we harden process, it reflects the wisdom 00:17:31.210 --> 00:17:34.650 that's already there. I think you make an excellent 00:17:34.650 --> 00:17:37.289 point about executives cut checks, but everybody 00:17:37.289 --> 00:17:40.609 else lives with the consequences. And so, as 00:17:40.609 --> 00:17:42.589 I talked about a lot through the last year, you 00:17:42.589 --> 00:17:46.329 and I were comparing and contrasting the process 00:17:46.329 --> 00:17:48.630 ownership and leadership that you've played such 00:17:48.630 --> 00:17:51.529 a vital role in the last many years of your career, 00:17:51.650 --> 00:17:53.269 whereas I've been consulting and coming in from 00:17:53.269 --> 00:17:57.369 the outside. And the most staggering thing to 00:17:57.369 --> 00:18:01.269 me as a young professional doing project work 00:18:01.269 --> 00:18:03.230 and trying to affect change and how businesses 00:18:03.230 --> 00:18:06.089 operate was that it had nothing to do with the 00:18:06.089 --> 00:18:08.650 technical excellence of the process. It had everything 00:18:08.650 --> 00:18:11.329 to do about stakeholder engagement and making 00:18:11.329 --> 00:18:14.829 sure that people had clear ownership, which kind 00:18:14.829 --> 00:18:16.930 of links back to the transferable and discoverable, 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:20.910 right? Totally. Yeah. Try versus buy. I think 00:18:20.910 --> 00:18:23.710 try is so empowering too, in that it helps us 00:18:23.710 --> 00:18:26.450 flex new muscles or new ways of thinking. Yeah. 00:18:27.109 --> 00:18:29.690 You know? We can't ride the bike for our kids. 00:18:29.829 --> 00:18:31.829 At some point we have to teach them how to do 00:18:31.829 --> 00:18:34.329 it and then know that they're going to tip over 00:18:34.329 --> 00:18:36.690 and they're going to be wobbly and then they 00:18:36.690 --> 00:18:41.549 get scraped up a little bit. Perfect, man. Well, 00:18:41.589 --> 00:18:44.789 that's a, that's a year in review. What a good 00:18:44.789 --> 00:18:47.950 year, Chris. I'm excited for year two. I don't 00:18:47.950 --> 00:18:50.430 quite know what it's going to entail. I do know 00:18:50.430 --> 00:18:53.690 that and just want to acknowledge you've had 00:18:53.690 --> 00:18:58.400 a recent shift. Oh yeah. I'm very excited about 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.039 our ability to do more intensive collaboration 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:05.119 in the Magic Button Labs world and bring a lot 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:11.019 of these practices directly to bear. I've loved 00:19:11.019 --> 00:19:14.240 all of your contributions in that advisory role 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:17.400 and now just super excited to see you stepping 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.700 up and taking over some leadership roles to help 00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:23.789 drive that organization forward. do amazing things 00:19:23.789 --> 00:19:25.589 for clients. At the very least, I'll be able 00:19:25.589 --> 00:19:27.410 to say, hey, I tried an experiment and it didn't 00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:31.089 work. That's right. Actually, I will predict, 00:19:31.190 --> 00:19:33.910 I'll be like, hey, I tried to get people to change 00:19:33.910 --> 00:19:36.950 and this was really hard. I think that's going 00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:40.529 to be the outcome. I think so. Well, and I think 00:19:40.529 --> 00:19:43.430 in the year ahead too, I look forward to having 00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:48.630 some, doing some engagements together and potentially 00:19:48.630 --> 00:19:51.750 talking with more people in this space, whether 00:19:51.750 --> 00:19:54.599 they're professionals that we know that are doing 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:57.220 this or thought leaders around, you know, how 00:19:57.220 --> 00:19:59.160 people are coming at process that differently, 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.900 but also potentially clients that, you know, 00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:03.819 we've been able to help would be an exciting 00:20:03.819 --> 00:20:06.640 addition to, to some of these things. Yeah. I 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:11.180 hope I, my, my very small goal is that we continue 00:20:11.180 --> 00:20:14.059 to do this weekly, but we have at least, at least 00:20:14.059 --> 00:20:16.900 four interviews. That's that I think that's doable. 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:20.640 That seems very doable. I'm full of optimism. 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:24.269 It's the season. Leaves are changing and pumpkin 00:20:24.269 --> 00:20:26.630 spice lattes are flowing in everybody's blood. 00:20:26.829 --> 00:20:30.190 That's right. Four guests in this next year. 00:20:30.349 --> 00:20:32.309 Let's do it. All right. Sounds good, man. Talk 00:20:32.309 --> 00:20:33.789 to you soon. Great. Sure. See you.