Hey, what's up, man? We made it to another week.
Oh, happy Friday. And since we've done this for
a year, guess what we get to do? We get to do
a year in review. Hang on. Yeah, you know what?
I remember when we first set out on this little
venture, and kind of like my experience in gardening,
it was kind of like, let's just see if we can
get to our first milestone, which was, and I
remember you saying, it's a low bar, Toby. It's
only one a week. And, uh, there were weeks where
it was kind of a struggle, you know, where it'd
be like a, uh, 11th hour call. Let's jump on
and make a recording. So yeah, I'd love to hear,
I'd love to hear, uh, on reflection. What are
some of the, maybe some of the episodes or topics
that stand out to you? Yeah, let's go back. If
we go back to one of our first ones, which was.
Process it process has to be discoverable and
transferable. I love it. Number, that was episode
two. That was an early on, but it was early.
A really cool tenant that we talked about. Yeah,
and I think most of the time, process is driven
from above, right? So a manager, an executive
says, we're gonna go do a thing. Which basically
does the telephone game down to the boots and
the ground. And at the end, you end up with the
telephone game, which is like, we don't know
what we're doing and we don't know what was said
originally, but we're doing a thing because nothing
is more permanent than a temporary solution.
Nothing is more permanent except for a one -time
modeling exercise in Excel that becomes an integral
part of every month's reporting. We cover that
somewhere out there, but yes. Process is not
typically this intelligent design. It's usually
like ad hoc bubble gum and duct tape until we
realize it's bubble gum and duct tape. So correct
and transferable and discoverable though. Talk
about, talk about those key elements that we
first touched. I think if you have a process
that's discoverable, meaning I can find it and
I had a new know how to do the thing, whatever
the thing is, even if the thing is running a
meeting. Um, it has to be, you have to be able
to go find it somewhere. Right and then the other
the other key is like, okay Is it transferable
meaning like if you and I went to NASA and we
picked up a document on you know nuclear something
or other or Transfusion or fuel usage it right?
It would not be transferable, but that's a bit
of a funny story, but that's kind of how we do
our process, right? Where one person builds it.
They think everybody thinks the way that they
do. And so the process is elegant, but it's for
them, but it's not transferable to anyone. Boy,
it's so true, right? Even if you can find it,
can you do anything with it? And ultimately,
therein lies the conundrum. As we build process
and as we bring people in to use the processes
we've designed, can they make good use of it?
And can they take over ownership when we're ready
to move on to the next thing? Which I think,
as I recall, that was probably a key element
we talked about, because you and I are a bit
of restless souls. We're happy to build it, but
it doesn't mean that we want to be there forever
during the feeding and maintenance. And some
folks, that's where they thrive. Yep. Well, I
think the other thing we talked about is like,
in order for something to be discoverable and
transferable, it's one thing if it's a one -off,
but if you're going to be doing the same thing
in three years or six months, you approach it
a little bit differently. You approach it with
an iterative model, not with the, here's my PowerPoint,
it's complete, do the meeting and we're done.
Right. But the silly thing is most businesses
run most of their processes like it's a PowerPoint,
it's delivered, mic drop, and we're out. And
all the people are left picking up the pieces
and they don't know how or what the next steps
are. Chris, the piece that I'll touch on that
comes to mind, and I don't know that we necessarily
covered it at the time, but it is a very specific
gift to be able to... Turn an idea into a repeatable
process and I think that too often times, you
know There's certain functions that do get romanticized
or oh my gosh Wouldn't it be nice to only be
worrying about new things and not taking care
of the business that we've built Yeah, and so
that the piece maybe that I'll offer just my
final thought around transferable and discoverable
is that recognizing those people that Develop
process that is easily discoverable that feels
intuitive Yep, those people are the crown jewels.
That's how you scale any organization Yep, because
they have to make everybody feel part of the
community instead of always on the outside So
episode two was transferable and discoverable.
Yep, and I would say that those like those people
are your biggest levers Gosh, because if you
if you can and the reality is that if you can
leverage for deep That's where scale comes from.
All right, next favorite topic from last year.
I don't remember exactly what episode, I think
you have this, but was when we talked about Elon
entering the government and the process that
he would run into, which is not his corporation.
It's funny because... Elon's been a recurring
topic, probably in a lot of conversations over
the last year, but yeah, this was early December,
episode nine last year, when all of a sudden
we were talking about what the heck is going
on? You know? Yeah. What is it that, you know,
as you think back to that, you know, we had,
we were kind of talking about at this point,
he had his Doge organization that - Yep. Eliminate
all the dumb processes. Yep. So what is it that's
sticking in your brain from from that first one?
You know, we first started talking about what
is this? What does this look like? I mean, I
would say that I mean, I'd have to go back and
listen, but I would say that we predicted the
challenge accurately and wrongly at the same
time. Right. Meaning we predicted the difficulty
that he would run into. Yeah, I don't think we
necessarily predicted how like how it would end
up where it really became You know, you've got
two alphas, you know two billionaires in a squabble.
Like I didn't we didn't necessarily predict that
Right and it's very interesting because you know,
they have they have you know Elon had to play
by some set of rules that he didn't like And
bended that bent, you know did what CEOs do oftentimes
which is bending their reality with their distortion
field or whatever. I think you say that well.
You say it better than I do. But I think he leaned
into the marketing, which I think if you were
to go back and do an analysis of it, it was mostly
marketing. It totally was. the master of the
hype cycle. And yeah, the first time I'd heard
that phrase, the reality distortion field was
credited Steve Jobs because he could walk into
a room and basically make people believe in something
that they'd never seen, tasted, touched, or experienced
and catapulted us forward. And I think Elon evidences
that same kind of wild gift in a way that grows
things. It is funny, though, to watch two alphas
probably who both thought the other one was working
for them, right? And they were both kind of confounded.
And a little bit of ketamine in the mix doesn't
necessarily make very predictable outcomes. But
you're right. We had, at that point in time,
people that we'd never heard of were given access
to the most proprietary data, which You know,
the subsequent year, it's been unclear where
some of that landed, but it does raise this question
of what does that mean? And what, a year on,
you know, what unintended consequences are going
to happen? I'm sure that the team that went in
was very good at transferring data and digging
in and discovering what was available. And we
know the data today is the same as Crown Jewels.
You know, it's a fountain for sure. so much of
our world revolves around trading data. But I
found it really fascinating that it was a little
bit of the Dunning -Kruger effect that I know
we've touched on several times where you know
a little bit and you feel brilliant. And then
all of a sudden you learn a little bit more and
only then begin to realize how novice you are
on the topic. And I think that that first collision
of very smart, savvy, data -minded people They
just ran roughshod over what has been long standing
process that's been built over decades in our
young country. And so that was a, what a swirl,
you know, enriched. Oh yeah. Well, what's interesting
is like they were even publishing on their site
on all the things that, all the projects that
they could figure out and they were doing it,
it was all veiled, right? And the New York Times
found within their HTML, they included the actual
like the requisition or number so that they could
actually go back and fact -check them. Well,
then they discovered it and then it disappeared.
And so like what's interesting is they did a
bit of a shell game because people want to believe
that governments are inefficient. And the reality
is, roads cost something. I mean, the system
of giving us infrastructure that no private company
is ever going to want to pay for is expensive.
Yeah. Where's my ROI on clean water? It's a weird
world, and I'm willing to bet we touched on it
back in the day, but as I sit here now, kind
of rehashing our best recollection of it, It's
a strange thing when those things that we might
otherwise think of as inalienable rights in a
first world country, just basic access to food,
water, shelter and purpose, right? The ability
to get up in the morning and make a contribution
of some sort that people feel increasingly separated
at times or like those things are no longer accessible.
And so I remember at the moment it was both,
I'm not a big fan boy, but I also much like I'll
say Mitch McConnell is wildly effective regardless
of your political leanings, Elon has also proven
to be a wildly effective individual in terms
of marshaling large teams and doing previously
unimaginable things. And so in the moment I was
concerned and also a little bit fascinated. And
now a year on, It's fallen out of the news cycles
behind the million and one other things including
the frog marching arm -in -arm with inflatable
unicorns here in the war zone of Portland. That's
right. You are close to the war zone. Be safe,
my friend. Let's shift topics to one of the ones
that we did later, which is why in business,
oftentimes there is this idea of, there's this
idea of make versus buy. And we spent some time
talking about try versus buy. Yeah. This was,
this was episode 43. So it was a late spring,
early summer. Yep. Thanks with you about this.
Cause I really liked the language of try versus
buy instead of make. Make so much certainty to
it, as I recall, that I like this idea of try
versus buy. I think if you found those magical
people that understood process and you could
just send them loose and give them a charter
and fixing things with the boots in the ground,
I think you would almost always win with try.
As long as you had an executive sponsor. I can't
think of any tool out there that is not bad -mouthed
when some human goes and mucks it up. Including
a shovel. That's my favorite example, like perhaps
one of the simplest tools, but if you've ever
tried to spade a garden with a dull shovel and
then been given a sharpened shovel, it feels
like your muscles have redoubled, you know? The
same, the same, I guess would be true of trying
to chop firewood with a dull axe versus, you
know, having a sharpened axe for the task. Yeah.
And to your point about try, it's a little bit
of learning and also not assuming that you know
everything right out of the gates. There's a
discovery and it's uncomfortable and it makes
us feel stupid and incompetent. And that usually
means we're learning something. Yep. So try versus
buy. Buy is fast. Especially if we have the right
experts at the table. What's interesting about
buying is it can be a fool's errand. And what
I mean by that is the difficulty is getting the
budget allocated. And then once the budget is
allocated, basically people just expect it to
match the marketing that is on whatever website
of the SaaS system that you just went and bought.
Yeah. And so the executives kind of have their
ability to let go once the budget is allocated
versus the people that are left to implement.
And oftentimes by that time, you know, the executive
or the sponsor has changed their focus to the
next fire. When I've been successful at just
implementing new process and new SaaS tools,
you just have a very, very strong executive sponsor.
And I've been able to work with the boots on
the ground. And some of my proudest moments are
when I've created something with people that
are actually going to be using it on a day in
and day out basis. And they're providing really
great feedback in what should be done. And sometimes
it's, you know, I oftentimes go back to, you
know, the Six Sigma, which is, you know, really
an operational item and not necessarily a process
thing, but I think, you know, I think one sigma
is 66%, two sigmas, you know, two sigmas, I think
85, and then you get to 90, or then you get to
95 and 97. But the difficulty of moving up that
rate in the sigmas is exponentially difficult.
And most of the time, people want that 99 .9
% accuracy out of their process, whereas it would
be three times as easy if you just dropped three
percentage points and just went to 97 point whatever.
Yeah. I mean, Chris, it's an interesting point
you make. Six Sigma allows for three defects
per million. Can you imagine if all of our business
processes were operating like that? Not that
every transaction goes through smoothly, but
that we're finding the defects early enough on
that they don't get to the end of it in their
errors. Three errors per million. Payroll teams
would love that. I love your point though that
as we think about try versus buy into your example
about working directly with people that have
to take ownership of the process once it's completed,
the more we involve them in it, the earlier that
ownership begins and the less wasted energy just
as we have to give those operational teams that
little bit of breathing room to be present to
the conversations and to bring their expertise
into the dialogue so that as we build process,
as we harden process, it reflects the wisdom
that's already there. I think you make an excellent
point about executives cut checks, but everybody
else lives with the consequences. And so, as
I talked about a lot through the last year, you
and I were comparing and contrasting the process
ownership and leadership that you've played such
a vital role in the last many years of your career,
whereas I've been consulting and coming in from
the outside. And the most staggering thing to
me as a young professional doing project work
and trying to affect change and how businesses
operate was that it had nothing to do with the
technical excellence of the process. It had everything
to do about stakeholder engagement and making
sure that people had clear ownership, which kind
of links back to the transferable and discoverable,
right? Totally. Yeah. Try versus buy. I think
try is so empowering too, in that it helps us
flex new muscles or new ways of thinking. Yeah.
You know? We can't ride the bike for our kids.
At some point we have to teach them how to do
it and then know that they're going to tip over
and they're going to be wobbly and then they
get scraped up a little bit. Perfect, man. Well,
that's a, that's a year in review. What a good
year, Chris. I'm excited for year two. I don't
quite know what it's going to entail. I do know
that and just want to acknowledge you've had
a recent shift. Oh yeah. I'm very excited about
our ability to do more intensive collaboration
in the Magic Button Labs world and bring a lot
of these practices directly to bear. I've loved
all of your contributions in that advisory role
and now just super excited to see you stepping
up and taking over some leadership roles to help
drive that organization forward. do amazing things
for clients. At the very least, I'll be able
to say, hey, I tried an experiment and it didn't
work. That's right. Actually, I will predict,
I'll be like, hey, I tried to get people to change
and this was really hard. I think that's going
to be the outcome. I think so. Well, and I think
in the year ahead too, I look forward to having
some, doing some engagements together and potentially
talking with more people in this space, whether
they're professionals that we know that are doing
this or thought leaders around, you know, how
people are coming at process that differently,
but also potentially clients that, you know,
we've been able to help would be an exciting
addition to, to some of these things. Yeah. I
hope I, my, my very small goal is that we continue
to do this weekly, but we have at least, at least
four interviews. That's that I think that's doable.
That seems very doable. I'm full of optimism.
It's the season. Leaves are changing and pumpkin
spice lattes are flowing in everybody's blood.
That's right. Four guests in this next year.
Let's do it. All right. Sounds good, man. Talk
to you soon. Great. Sure. See you.