WEBVTT 00:00:00.110 --> 00:00:03.169 Hey, what's up, Toby? Hey, buddy. Happy Friday. 00:00:03.390 --> 00:00:05.790 Yeah, we made it through another one. We did 00:00:05.790 --> 00:00:08.630 indeed. We've made it to year two of the Processed 00:00:08.630 --> 00:00:11.970 It podcast. Oh, man. We're only picking up steam, 00:00:11.970 --> 00:00:15.669 brother. Look out. The process that I want to 00:00:15.669 --> 00:00:19.070 talk about today is the process in which the 00:00:19.070 --> 00:00:21.510 United States government shuts down. I feel like 00:00:21.510 --> 00:00:25.429 it's timely. That is timely as we sit here in 00:00:25.429 --> 00:00:29.359 the autumn of 2025. I think we're about a week 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:31.420 down into the current, a week into the current 00:00:31.420 --> 00:00:34.979 shutdown. Talking about the process, you think 00:00:34.979 --> 00:00:37.140 there's a formal protocol by which we shut down 00:00:37.140 --> 00:00:39.659 the government? You think they just turn off 00:00:39.659 --> 00:00:44.140 the lights and turn off everybody's key cards 00:00:44.140 --> 00:00:50.320 for the following Monday? I don't, I mean, how 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.840 do you, you turn off the money? Remaking machine. 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.679 It's funny. So on this topic, and then I want 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:03.359 to hear where you were going with it, but I recently 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:05.900 read something that said the only reason the 00:01:05.900 --> 00:01:09.319 last shutdown was arrested at 35 days was because 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:11.680 air traffic controllers finally said enough. 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:15.040 Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. It just started 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:20.859 calling in sick. And I thought, well, I'm a... 00:01:20.569 --> 00:01:23.129 I know who to throw my support behind. If that's 00:01:23.129 --> 00:01:25.849 how we get stuff, get people back to the table 00:01:25.849 --> 00:01:28.810 and move things forward, you know, support your 00:01:28.810 --> 00:01:31.209 local air traffic controller. Well, they weren't 00:01:31.209 --> 00:01:34.430 they weren't being paid, right? No. Yeah. Like 00:01:34.430 --> 00:01:36.370 so many different, you know, I think everybody 00:01:36.370 --> 00:01:40.250 has a spouse, somebody in their home or in their 00:01:40.250 --> 00:01:42.769 family or in their close friend network that's 00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:46.180 involved with the federal government. So many 00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:48.239 roles people are like, oh, yeah, it's okay. We'll 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:49.939 catch up on the back end. Just work for free 00:01:49.939 --> 00:01:56.480 for now. Yeah, you know Okay Well, what's what's 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.140 interesting about this is it's Or at least where 00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:02.500 I come at it is like, how do you talk critically 00:02:02.500 --> 00:02:04.719 about it? Like how do you talk to both sides? 00:02:05.260 --> 00:02:07.700 So that yeah, there can be at least a conversation 00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:12.909 And what what? You know, I think I told you right 00:02:12.909 --> 00:02:14.530 before the podcast started, I'd been thinking 00:02:14.530 --> 00:02:16.409 about this little acronym that I came up, which, 00:02:16.530 --> 00:02:19.310 you know, yeah, maybe the first and last time 00:02:19.310 --> 00:02:21.610 it's ever used in history, but it's it's pump, 00:02:21.770 --> 00:02:24.849 right, which is process. Yeah. The unintended 00:02:24.849 --> 00:02:28.409 consequences. Money, like, where does the money 00:02:28.409 --> 00:02:32.610 go and where does the power go? And it's an, 00:02:32.770 --> 00:02:35.050 you know, it's an interesting, you know, it's 00:02:35.050 --> 00:02:38.110 interesting to just a framework to look at it 00:02:38.110 --> 00:02:41.740 from multiple sides. Yeah, talk me about talk 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:43.819 to me about this acronym pump for a second and 00:02:43.819 --> 00:02:46.639 then let's go back to the federal shut down Yeah, 00:02:46.979 --> 00:02:49.659 so I see the moving parts. Yep. How are you? 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:52.680 How are you? Thinking about the relationship 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:56.379 between process Unintended consequences money 00:02:56.379 --> 00:02:58.800 and power. I mean I could string those together 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.039 in a variety of ways I'm just here. I think they're 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:05.039 talking points like it just allows you to think 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.840 about it in ways that you don't that allows you 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.680 to slow down and not just dig into your confirmation 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:15.900 bias. Because whether you believe it's the left 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:18.240 or the right doing something, the reality is 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:22.419 it's a little bit more complex. For sure. Because 00:03:22.419 --> 00:03:25.680 if you're a senator in a blue state or a senator 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:30.900 in a red state, the process by which turning 00:03:30.900 --> 00:03:34.800 the government on or off means that you account 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:38.849 for the money and the power. Because if you go 00:03:38.849 --> 00:03:42.509 against your base, you're against the money in 00:03:42.509 --> 00:03:45.870 your next election, and you've got against your 00:03:45.870 --> 00:03:48.330 power that you have, which is your base. And 00:03:48.330 --> 00:03:51.349 so it's a little bit more simple than like, oh, 00:03:51.389 --> 00:03:55.789 we'll just turn it on. I think you make a really 00:03:55.789 --> 00:03:58.810 good point that in the sound bite world we live 00:03:58.810 --> 00:04:02.789 in, where everybody's listening to highly filtered 00:04:02.789 --> 00:04:06.409 content, whether it's streaming services or social 00:04:06.409 --> 00:04:11.199 media. All been, it's all been, uh, algo to pieces. 00:04:11.500 --> 00:04:14.280 So we only hear what we want to hear. Yeah. Um, 00:04:14.539 --> 00:04:16.779 but yeah, the unintended consequences are, are 00:04:16.779 --> 00:04:19.860 enormous. And so I would put you at the end. 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:22.500 I would put the, you, the unintended consequences 00:04:22.500 --> 00:04:24.120 at the end, because then you would have to think 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:26.540 about it, but then it doesn't spell word. And 00:04:26.540 --> 00:04:31.620 then becomes who you're looking at is strange. 00:04:35.609 --> 00:04:38.310 But it is interesting as we're thinking about 00:04:38.310 --> 00:04:40.889 the government, like, you know, what processes 00:04:40.889 --> 00:04:43.649 are in play, right? They've got to basically 00:04:43.649 --> 00:04:47.970 increase the money supply or the ability to take 00:04:47.970 --> 00:04:51.790 on more debt, which we have been really good 00:04:51.790 --> 00:04:56.529 at that over the last couple decades. Yeah. When 00:04:56.529 --> 00:05:03.209 you reduce income and increase outflow, the only 00:05:03.209 --> 00:05:05.500 way you fill that hole is debt. It doesn't matter 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:07.980 whether you're a single household or a nation. 00:05:08.100 --> 00:05:10.899 Yeah. Yeah. Well, what's interesting, what's 00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:12.459 interesting is everybody's like, well, I don't 00:05:12.459 --> 00:05:14.540 want taxes. You're like, no, we should just do 00:05:14.540 --> 00:05:19.279 smart taxes. Well, I mean, so back to your point 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:22.040 about about process, money, power and unintended 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:26.199 consequences. When you say smart taxes, I'm curious, 00:05:26.300 --> 00:05:30.740 what does that mean to you? We, I believe for 00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:34.759 the most part, when we cut tax. Yeah. We basically 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:37.540 are going away from this, from a baseline that 00:05:37.540 --> 00:05:39.779 no first world country has ever been able to 00:05:39.779 --> 00:05:42.740 get away from. Like there's a baseline of infrastructure 00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:48.319 and support that your people want. And, and, 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:49.980 you know, you might be able to go up or down 00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:52.160 2%, but the reality is, is like, there's not 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:53.620 a whole lot of movement and everybody's like, 00:05:53.620 --> 00:05:55.500 well, I want to cut taxes. And if you give them 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:58.519 the actual exercise of cutting taxes and where 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:03.970 to do it, not so easy. Yeah. My favorite is I 00:06:03.970 --> 00:06:07.009 want things to be nice like they were back in 00:06:07.009 --> 00:06:11.670 the 50s and 60s. And single income, you can afford 00:06:11.670 --> 00:06:15.930 a home, you can afford a vehicle. You can live 00:06:15.930 --> 00:06:18.910 in a safe place and even take a family vacation. 00:06:19.470 --> 00:06:22.310 But that kind of Halcyon era that predated a 00:06:22.310 --> 00:06:26.689 lot of us, parents grew up in, also had one of 00:06:26.689 --> 00:06:29.709 our highest tax bases. You're in the U .S., and 00:06:29.709 --> 00:06:32.970 so you're absolutely right. It's a devil's task 00:06:32.970 --> 00:06:36.829 to balance all the competing interests and still 00:06:36.829 --> 00:06:42.089 provide the tax base that we all need. I guess 00:06:42.089 --> 00:06:43.550 you're saying we can't have our cake and eat 00:06:43.550 --> 00:06:46.110 it too. Correct. Which is disappointing, Chris. 00:06:46.110 --> 00:06:51.290 Correct. And also, taxing the little guy isn't 00:06:51.290 --> 00:06:55.250 going to add up too much. That's the funny thing. 00:06:55.529 --> 00:06:59.870 Taking money away from the tax, from the little 00:06:59.870 --> 00:07:04.449 guy, isn't going to add much. No. Unless you 00:07:04.449 --> 00:07:11.269 grew up through Medicaid. Yeah. If we want to 00:07:11.269 --> 00:07:15.089 talk about untouchable topics, let's just get 00:07:15.089 --> 00:07:20.209 into that retirement focused budget and the military 00:07:20.209 --> 00:07:23.949 and see where that lands us. Well, that's what 00:07:23.949 --> 00:07:27.500 I found. That's what I find really funny about, 00:07:27.500 --> 00:07:30.399 you know, people and, you know, the whole Doge 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:32.300 thing, which was like, Hey, we're going to go 00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:36.180 and do a thing. And you're like, all right, I'm 00:07:36.180 --> 00:07:39.879 a data nerd. And you want to find, if you want 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:42.819 to find where you can go grab the money, take 00:07:42.819 --> 00:07:48.540 your budget, sort by line item, highest to smallest, 00:07:49.339 --> 00:07:51.620 start at the top. And that's where the money 00:07:51.620 --> 00:07:56.160 is. And what we as humans often do is we want 00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:00.899 to see, we want to notice the scene. And so it's 00:08:00.899 --> 00:08:04.160 the many, many whiplashy things. And you're like, 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:08.339 yeah, that's like such a small, infinitesimal, 00:08:08.579 --> 00:08:12.519 whatever that word is, like it's just so small 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:14.439 in comparison to the budget because we don't 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:18.879 do numbers well. No, it's, you know, the human 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.579 condition, I think even if we step back and take 00:08:21.579 --> 00:08:24.259 it on a super personal level. It's like, I want 00:08:24.259 --> 00:08:26.939 to feel better. I want to be more fit. I want 00:08:26.939 --> 00:08:31.040 to be more trim. But I don't want to, you know, 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:33.639 sleep with a CPAP on my face, even though I stopped 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:35.740 breathing all night. And I don't want to eat 00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:38.960 healthy food because McDonald's is so tasty and 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:43.159 easy and exercise when I can binge watch Netflix. 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.759 Yeah. And, you know, to your point, all of those 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:51.029 like high impact. High -cost areas are well known 00:08:51.029 --> 00:08:54.690 But if we take those off the table now, we're 00:08:54.690 --> 00:08:58.090 splitting hairs over should I have more? Nuts 00:08:58.090 --> 00:09:01.509 and raisins in my trail mix, you know, you know 00:09:01.509 --> 00:09:05.230 sure knock yourself out Yeah for sure. All right, 00:09:05.309 --> 00:09:07.590 what's what are the what's the unintended consequences 00:09:07.590 --> 00:09:10.870 of shutting the government down? Yeah, well so 00:09:10.870 --> 00:09:14.330 thus far You know in my house. I haven't really 00:09:14.330 --> 00:09:18.289 felt it. Yeah but I'm not drawing a a federal 00:09:18.289 --> 00:09:22.929 wage and I'm not dependent on services. I'm the 00:09:22.929 --> 00:09:27.149 boy. It feels like a tsunami of consequences. 00:09:29.049 --> 00:09:32.769 Intentional and unintentional, you know? So, 00:09:33.269 --> 00:09:35.850 the most frightening, I think, around the unintentional 00:09:35.850 --> 00:09:37.929 goes back to that same interest group that we 00:09:37.929 --> 00:09:40.610 were just talking about, which are those folks 00:09:40.610 --> 00:09:47.129 that put in their decades of work. now are finally 00:09:47.129 --> 00:09:49.350 tapping into the benefits that they were promised, 00:09:49.629 --> 00:09:52.809 you know, retirees. What does this mean for social 00:09:52.809 --> 00:09:56.009 security checks? I know personally, you know, 00:09:56.009 --> 00:09:58.970 what does it mean for Medicare and getting those 00:09:58.970 --> 00:10:01.649 payments out to all of our care providers? I 00:10:01.649 --> 00:10:04.009 don't know. Well, one of the major unintended 00:10:04.009 --> 00:10:08.029 consequences, I think, is interesting with, you 00:10:08.029 --> 00:10:11.549 know, the Affordable Affordable Health Care Act, 00:10:11.710 --> 00:10:16.379 the Obamacare. Basically, as of this this month, 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:19.320 a loss, or as of starting next month, it basically 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:22.799 will lose all those subsidies. And then, you 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:24.960 know, healthcare goes up. And I don't know the 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:26.879 specifics there, so I'm just kind of making stuff 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.960 up. So you should fact check me, Toby. You should, 00:10:31.259 --> 00:10:34.080 you should go look that up. But like, it's interesting, 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:37.500 right? So, you know, the other thing that I find 00:10:37.500 --> 00:10:40.659 fascinating is the federal government's pretty 00:10:40.659 --> 00:10:44.340 big everywhere, and we're in a very large country, 00:10:44.340 --> 00:10:48.549 and A lot of rural people are going to be impacted. 00:10:50.149 --> 00:10:55.529 And at some point you switch who you're blaming, 00:10:56.309 --> 00:10:59.629 then work. Well, and that's, I think if we step 00:10:59.629 --> 00:11:01.590 back for a second, you know, at the beginning, 00:11:02.169 --> 00:11:05.750 you spoke to a notion of complexity. And I think 00:11:05.750 --> 00:11:10.370 when we talk about a machine as large and the 00:11:10.370 --> 00:11:12.370 labor force that it takes to run the federal 00:11:12.370 --> 00:11:15.330 government as a machine. That's a lot of complex 00:11:15.330 --> 00:11:20.710 process. There's lots of handoffs and decisions 00:11:20.710 --> 00:11:26.429 and protocols. And it's one thing to retire out 00:11:26.429 --> 00:11:28.350 some percentage of a workforce every year. It's 00:11:28.350 --> 00:11:34.250 totally different when everybody goes home. Or 00:11:34.250 --> 00:11:37.309 people are asked to work for free and without 00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:40.769 any certainty about what comes back next when... 00:11:40.700 --> 00:11:43.600 Half the folks they were sitting with a year 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:48.179 ago have been challenged either quit or the consequences. 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:53.279 So, I don't know. I mean, is it unintended consequences? 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:55.200 Do you think there's intended consequences in 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:57.620 this? Well, I think there absolutely is. I do 00:11:57.620 --> 00:12:05.600 think both sides have basically put their stakes 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.779 in the ground of what they think the intention 00:12:08.779 --> 00:12:13.870 is going to be. And neither side is going to 00:12:13.870 --> 00:12:18.149 be exactly right. Or though lucky or wrong is 00:12:18.149 --> 00:12:22.250 how I see it. A little sad. Yeah. There's only 00:12:22.250 --> 00:12:24.970 one reason why you're right. It's always lucky. 00:12:26.230 --> 00:12:31.970 I think it's interesting that when well -defined 00:12:31.970 --> 00:12:35.350 processes or protocols are ignored, they've usually 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:39.240 become well -defined for a reason. Yep. And it's 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:42.240 just like payment processing inside of a company 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:45.299 or inventory management. All these business processes, 00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:47.379 there's a reason why we tend to do them a certain 00:12:47.379 --> 00:12:50.080 way and that we see them done the same way across 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.840 companies and across industries. And it's just 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.059 that the risks are enormous. What could be worse 00:12:56.059 --> 00:12:59.059 than accidentally forgetting to pay your frontline 00:12:59.059 --> 00:13:03.559 labor force? And all of a sudden you've debilitated 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:06.159 them because... Those are often the lowest paid 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.419 folks and the ones that are most at risk are 00:13:09.419 --> 00:13:13.320 disrupted, you know? Yeah, watch your business 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:15.700 collapse overnight. Well, what's interesting 00:13:15.700 --> 00:13:17.899 is like some of these big businesses, like they 00:13:17.899 --> 00:13:23.120 can be taken down in a flash, like with a little 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:25.840 thing. So it's been probably a couple of years 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.419 ago, but Microsoft forgot to pay one of their 00:13:28.419 --> 00:13:33.360 SSL certs, which is literally like... $12 a year 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.419 or something like that, right? Yeah, basically 00:13:36.419 --> 00:13:39.759 when that certificate goes down your SSL don't 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:42.820 work anymore And so you basically have this, 00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:45.360 you know close to trillion dollar company. That's 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:50.159 just like want law Is it? Someone forgot to put 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:54.460 a backup payment like a credit card. So I mean, 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:57.299 but like I wonder I wonder if that that will 00:13:57.299 --> 00:14:01.200 that could be the unintended consequence of where 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.899 you're teetering on such a fine line politically 00:14:04.899 --> 00:14:13.100 where the house of cards collapses. To your point 00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:15.200 about power and money being the other moving 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.360 parts in this, I think anytime we have persistent 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.759 disagreements or we have people that are anchored 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:25.240 so far apart with no room to negotiate, we should 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.740 be asking, what are the incentives for taking 00:14:28.740 --> 00:14:36.889 such a hard perspective? And I think that there's 00:14:36.889 --> 00:14:39.690 probably a frightening amount of truth, regardless 00:14:39.690 --> 00:14:41.730 of any direction you point, that there's money 00:14:41.730 --> 00:14:45.210 and power that are dictating those. And it's 00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:48.870 not always the stakeholders. It's interesting 00:14:48.870 --> 00:14:51.850 too, even as we talk about just the money part 00:14:51.850 --> 00:14:55.250 here, if you go macro, you stop paying the federal 00:14:55.250 --> 00:14:57.649 workers, that's really easy. That's an easy thing 00:14:57.649 --> 00:15:03.389 to know, right? It would roll up to the greater 00:15:03.389 --> 00:15:06.110 economy in which that money is flowing less, 00:15:06.110 --> 00:15:08.830 which would flow up and up and up, and it would 00:15:08.830 --> 00:15:11.190 get too complex for us to think about. But then 00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:13.830 if you go at the government level, they've got 00:15:13.830 --> 00:15:16.509 to basically release more funds so that they 00:15:16.509 --> 00:15:20.669 can take on more debt. And to be honest, I talk 00:15:20.669 --> 00:15:24.090 about that, but I don't even understand how that 00:15:24.090 --> 00:15:29.740 works. Money supply was a really painful class 00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:34.720 that I have vague recollections from my undergrad 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.480 in. And you're right, it's a super complicated 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:43.740 process. And you know, let's say we pump money 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:46.940 or take on more debt or whatever, right, in which 00:15:46.940 --> 00:15:49.179 we've got to pay, right? Someone's got to pay 00:15:49.179 --> 00:15:52.080 the piper, right? And that means it either comes 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.690 out of the budget or comes comes through inflation, 00:15:55.009 --> 00:15:57.850 like the Piper is going to be paid. Like that's, 00:15:57.850 --> 00:16:03.250 that's how it works. Yeah. Well, I think, uh, 00:16:03.549 --> 00:16:06.490 you know, the best case for us would be to have 00:16:06.490 --> 00:16:08.730 folks running this country that understand the 00:16:08.730 --> 00:16:12.450 casino model, right? Cause the house always wins 00:16:12.450 --> 00:16:16.009 in theory. And I'm sure there's somebody out 00:16:16.009 --> 00:16:19.129 there that's bankrupt a casino, but in general, 00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:24.360 most folks can. If we can't find those folks 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:27.019 I'm sure there's somebody else that can help 00:16:27.019 --> 00:16:28.700 us figure out how to run this damn thing because 00:16:28.700 --> 00:16:31.039 there's to my way of thinking there's there's 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:34.299 really no reason why as Prosperous a country 00:16:34.299 --> 00:16:37.419 as we have with all the reasons deserve talent 00:16:37.419 --> 00:16:40.919 That are both homegrown and that we've traditionally 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.600 brought in to our economy. There's no reason 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:48.279 why We can't balance a budget. I think it's it's 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:51.460 simple reluctance. Yeah, you know You can't drive 00:16:51.460 --> 00:16:54.360 an ass car and live in a mansion and only want 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:57.200 to work three hours a day at Circle K and still 00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:59.659 have it all, you know, pens about. How long has 00:16:59.659 --> 00:17:04.500 it been since we've had a surplus? Was it like... 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:09.619 I think the last surplus was Clinton's era. That's 00:17:09.619 --> 00:17:11.420 what I was thinking. Where there might have been 00:17:11.420 --> 00:17:15.619 one year with Obama, but... Yeah, balanced budgets 00:17:15.619 --> 00:17:21.299 tricky. It's... Yeah, it's hard. It is. It is. 00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:23.160 Well, I guess that the other question I would 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.539 ask is like, when was the last time that we ran 00:17:25.539 --> 00:17:30.680 a surplus and had our needs met? And that probably 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:37.180 predates you and I by some good measure. Some 00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:41.559 post -World War II kind of thing. So Chris, I 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:44.480 think I like your acronym, even if it's Pum -Poo. 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:51.500 We'll see if Pum -Poo takes off. It's more unique. 00:17:52.299 --> 00:17:54.839 But I like that idea of pump. Our processes, 00:17:54.980 --> 00:17:57.059 if they're not working, there's an easy way to 00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:59.819 understand it. And it could be that we're just 00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:03.759 living under the consequences, and we find ourselves 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:06.279 signed up for painful experiences that we didn't 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:09.819 know were coming our way. For sure. It's really 00:18:09.819 --> 00:18:12.200 hard to restart a process, too, once you've neglected 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:15.480 it. I think about any piece of machinery, you 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:17.660 can't leave it out in the rain for years than 00:18:17.660 --> 00:18:19.380 expect it to magically work again. I mean, if 00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:21.400 you go back to just the process of our government, 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:25.279 which you've got, you know, the, you know, the 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.400 executive, the legislative and the judicial, 00:18:27.819 --> 00:18:30.019 I was listening to something on McCarthyism, 00:18:30.099 --> 00:18:33.480 you know, back, back after World War II and, 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:35.880 you know, talking about how crazy it was and 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:39.019 how the courts, you know, back then kind of bent 00:18:39.019 --> 00:18:41.420 towards McCarthyism and then finally rebounded. 00:18:41.420 --> 00:18:44.269 And that's, I'm like, Hey, look, History repeats 00:18:44.269 --> 00:18:47.890 itself. Funny how that works. But it is interesting 00:18:47.890 --> 00:18:52.849 that we have our process of our legislative part 00:18:52.849 --> 00:18:55.630 of the government. It's what, a two year cycle 00:18:55.630 --> 00:18:59.309 for congressmen and then a six year for the Senate? 00:18:59.529 --> 00:19:05.029 You're like, I mean, I've started new jobs before 00:19:05.029 --> 00:19:08.150 and it takes a good year and a half to kind of 00:19:08.150 --> 00:19:12.029 get your bearings oftentimes. And I'm not having 00:19:12.029 --> 00:19:14.049 to deal with... you know, who are the sharks 00:19:14.049 --> 00:19:17.210 and who are the minnows and who can you play 00:19:17.210 --> 00:19:18.970 with and who can you not play with in the halls 00:19:18.970 --> 00:19:22.329 of Congress or Senate? And then the Senate's 00:19:22.329 --> 00:19:24.569 crazy because it's all about how long you can 00:19:24.569 --> 00:19:29.809 stay there. Yeah. Well, which is why the average 00:19:29.809 --> 00:19:33.230 age of our elected officials is somewhere between 00:19:33.230 --> 00:19:38.210 70 and dead. Yeah. You know, it is a strange, 00:19:38.250 --> 00:19:40.109 it's a strange world. I had a friend point out 00:19:40.109 --> 00:19:45.009 that That Gen Xers may end up being that one 00:19:45.009 --> 00:19:47.650 generation that moves through without ever seeing 00:19:47.650 --> 00:19:50.529 Oh, yeah, there is like it in their elected officials, 00:19:50.529 --> 00:19:56.190 and I think that's largely been true You know, 00:19:56.829 --> 00:19:59.029 especially in in love or hate them there's all 00:19:59.029 --> 00:20:03.349 kinds of Electeds that continue well beyond we 00:20:03.349 --> 00:20:08.569 might otherwise deem our age So it is an interesting 00:20:08.569 --> 00:20:12.000 machine I'll be interested to see how we get 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.759 this thing oiled up and running again. Not just 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.480 the parts that we're operating before the shutdown, 00:20:18.859 --> 00:20:21.440 but some of the parts that have been long neglected. 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.859 Maybe that pendulum will swing back towards center 00:20:24.859 --> 00:20:27.259 here soon. Well, and the other thing that I think 00:20:27.259 --> 00:20:30.920 is missing in government is just a flat out, 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:34.680 like a vision, like a long -term vision. Like 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:38.799 it just seems, anyway, like without that alignment, 00:20:39.509 --> 00:20:42.390 Yeah, basically have a bunch of fractured folks 00:20:42.390 --> 00:20:46.049 trying to do what they need to do to get reelected 00:20:46.049 --> 00:20:51.150 Yeah, I mean hey bring it back, you know thing 00:20:51.150 --> 00:20:54.930 about the government as an organization Every 00:20:54.930 --> 00:20:57.089 other organization has to have a shared mission 00:20:57.089 --> 00:20:59.829 and I don't quite know what our collective mission 00:20:59.829 --> 00:21:02.369 is right now Yeah, so it's hard to get aligned 00:21:02.369 --> 00:21:05.029 and you lose you live really close to that war 00:21:05.029 --> 00:21:10.140 zone war -torn City, Portland. I mean There's 00:21:10.140 --> 00:21:13.279 probably going to be ones of people out there. 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.440 People on the podcast can't see me in my flying 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:21.240 black jacket. You can't hardly go out for coffee 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.640 without leaves falling on you right now. Look 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:27.960 out for those pumpkin spice lattes. I mean, out 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.980 of control. You probably have maple syrup or 00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:33.660 something on your waffles. It's really out of 00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:36.500 hand. Yeah. Those lime bikes are everywhere. 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.059 Next. That's awesome, man. Well, thanks for meeting 00:21:41.059 --> 00:21:44.799 again. Off to New York today. It should be a 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.279 good one. Yeah. Cheers to year two. Here we go, 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:48.279 man. Talk to you later.