WEBVTT 00:00:00.330 --> 00:00:06.549 Guess what, Toby? It is episode 52 of the Prosthetic 00:00:06.549 --> 00:00:09.529 Podcast. Dude, that's awesome. We're coming up 00:00:09.529 --> 00:00:14.130 on a full lap. I know. We made it. We made it. 00:00:14.130 --> 00:00:18.969 I love it. Lap around the sun. Like far up. I'm 00:00:18.969 --> 00:00:21.230 kidding. What's on your mind this week? I have 00:00:21.230 --> 00:00:23.469 been thinking, well, first of all, you may not 00:00:23.469 --> 00:00:27.370 know this, but I had two completely opposite 00:00:27.370 --> 00:00:33.299 internships. when I was in college. So first 00:00:33.299 --> 00:00:38.140 one at Merrill Lynch, just in a local branch, 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:39.799 just kind of learning about the stock market. 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:41.259 That was the first one. It's a solid internship. 00:00:43.100 --> 00:00:45.600 The second one, completely different at a lollipop 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:47.619 factory. At a lollipop factory. What was there? 00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:51.939 I kid you not. I was eating lots of lollipops 00:00:51.939 --> 00:00:57.030 is what I was doing. So jealous they can. It 00:00:57.030 --> 00:01:01.109 was a local lollipop factory in Boise, Idaho. 00:01:01.729 --> 00:01:04.010 They made the Rodman pop. If you remember Dennis 00:01:04.010 --> 00:01:06.890 Rodman, he was the worm. He had a worm pop. That 00:01:06.890 --> 00:01:09.430 was their kind of lame name. Man, how did I miss 00:01:09.430 --> 00:01:14.549 that? I know. So anyways, this leads to the topic. 00:01:14.670 --> 00:01:17.549 It's his most enviable internship at this besides 00:01:17.549 --> 00:01:20.969 bringing it old Dennis Rodman. Yeah. So we had 00:01:20.969 --> 00:01:24.329 defects. Meaning you would put the lollipop in 00:01:24.329 --> 00:01:26.959 and it would press it around the stick. And maybe 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.500 you didn't have enough of the lollipop mixture. 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:35.579 Nobody wants a partial Rodman. Nobody wants a 00:01:35.579 --> 00:01:38.920 partial lollipop. They had lots of defects. Like 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:42.219 there were lollipops all over the place that 00:01:42.219 --> 00:01:44.519 were partials or they didn't print well. You 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:46.780 could take home as many lollipops as you wanted. 00:01:49.939 --> 00:01:52.420 I didn't have health insurance because of an 00:01:52.420 --> 00:01:54.299 internship, so I could have got diabetes, but 00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:56.439 you know, whatever. But what was interesting 00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:00.939 of what this made me think of recently was in 00:02:00.939 --> 00:02:06.900 knowledge work Where do defects go? Because in 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:09.680 the lollipop factory we had we had these defects 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:13.000 and we had like bags like hundreds of pounds 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:17.659 of lollipops that just didn't make the cut and 00:02:17.659 --> 00:02:21.020 So this is made me think about my day job Where 00:02:21.020 --> 00:02:25.599 do like word does? Knowledge work have defects. 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:28.520 Do you not, do you not have a Agnex to your trash 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:32.979 can by your feet specifically for bad ideas and 00:02:32.979 --> 00:02:37.020 effective deliverables? Chris, that's a really 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:40.159 great question, right? That power probably sucks. 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:43.020 Throw it in the trash. Okay. Get off your computer, 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:45.819 get it out of there. Or it infects everything. 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.919 What are you doing? You raise a good question. 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:54.300 And you know, with a physical good, We have a 00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:57.580 very clear expectation for what that looks like. 00:02:58.060 --> 00:03:01.280 How do we, what's the template for a good idea 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:05.400 and a good piece of knowledge? What a slippery 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:08.199 slope. The thing that, you know, the thing that 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:11.680 is, was kind of eye -opening, you know, when 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:16.319 you start this internship is that, and maybe 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:20.400 the difference between a factory and typing emails 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.979 all day is that Because you're moving physical 00:03:23.979 --> 00:03:26.919 product, that physical product that is defective 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:32.360 is obvious. And if it's obvious enough, the problem 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:38.939 is fixed. It's both fixed. Whereas if you send 00:03:38.939 --> 00:03:41.840 out an email that has a misspelling or you have 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:45.219 a PowerPoint and you continue to basically communicate 00:03:45.219 --> 00:03:47.680 in a way that's not received, that could definitely 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:52.219 be considered a defect. But it's never seen it. 00:03:52.219 --> 00:03:56.099 It makes me wonder You and so many folks in the 00:03:56.099 --> 00:03:59.580 world of lollipop manufacturing actually produce 00:03:59.580 --> 00:04:02.060 better products than the modern knowledge worker 00:04:02.060 --> 00:04:07.520 and I might almost argue that by definition we 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:11.000 don't know what our spec is anymore and so we 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:14.840 kind of shuffle information and to your point 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:19.360 if the spelling is correct and if the logic is 00:04:19.899 --> 00:04:22.819 Holds together at all that it's hard to argue 00:04:22.819 --> 00:04:27.379 that you missed the goal, right? So yeah, so 00:04:27.379 --> 00:04:29.860 in a modern computer driven world where we get 00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:32.540 paid to be plugged into little monitors all day 00:04:32.540 --> 00:04:35.519 long What's a good work product? And where does 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:38.060 the bad how do you identify the bad work product 00:04:38.060 --> 00:04:41.300 to put in the bag to be taken home each night? 00:04:42.139 --> 00:04:44.740 Yikes. Yes. Have you slept at all this week? 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:50.860 I've been sleeping. But it is really interesting, 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:54.180 right? In that like knowledge work is a lot about 00:04:54.180 --> 00:05:00.480 novelty. But novelty isn't productivity. Novelty 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:06.000 is just novelty. Yowzer. And so like, you know, 00:05:06.019 --> 00:05:08.019 I think the reason why process that has always 00:05:08.019 --> 00:05:10.920 stood out like kind of been this earworm that 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:13.199 I've had and we've talked about it for years. 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:16.819 You and I have. But I think it's because I'm 00:05:16.819 --> 00:05:20.879 so kinesthetic and so I learned by doing and 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:23.819 So oftentimes I'll be and I might be a little 00:05:23.819 --> 00:05:26.180 bit ADHD But like I'll be sitting in meetings 00:05:26.180 --> 00:05:28.560 and I'm like, why are we here? Like what are 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:30.379 we doing? Do we know who our audience is? Do 00:05:30.379 --> 00:05:32.399 we know who our customer is in this meeting? 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:36.399 I think Most of the time you could probably say 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:39.519 you don't Like you're just here because we're 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:41.319 supposed to have meetings and if a meetings on 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:45.019 my calendar I should show up That is how it works, 00:05:45.259 --> 00:05:49.519 right? I tell you how many, how many mid to latter 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.220 quarter career professionals I work with that 00:05:52.220 --> 00:05:54.740 do say, I have a whole series of meetings, I'm 00:05:54.740 --> 00:05:57.639 jammed up, I'm packed. It's one thing if you're 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:01.180 being called on to make decisions, but a lot 00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:04.319 of it, what is it that we're transforming input, 00:06:04.740 --> 00:06:10.660 activity, output? Well, what's interesting is 00:06:10.660 --> 00:06:13.519 in knowledge work so like in contrast to the 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:16.519 lollipop factory They're these big old bins, 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:19.800 you know, like these big basically pots in that 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.639 which you would cook the You know the sugar mixture 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:26.040 and you would add in the flavors and do all the 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:29.180 things right? But you would get it you'd basically 00:06:29.180 --> 00:06:31.279 get it hot and then you'd put it in these kind 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:32.920 of roller things and the roller things would 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:34.959 kind of turn it into a little rope a little rope 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:37.240 would be stamped right the interesting thing 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.860 is like You can't delay. You can never delay. 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:44.180 And that delay creates the defects, right? So 00:06:44.180 --> 00:06:47.480 like, there was these women that would be putting 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:51.060 the sticks in to get it stamped. And it was really 00:06:51.060 --> 00:06:52.740 pretty awesome to watch them. They would just 00:06:52.740 --> 00:06:54.639 basically put the sticks in and they would lay 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:57.779 the lollipops down on the dryer. But the reason 00:06:57.779 --> 00:07:02.600 I bring that up is like, in knowledge work, there's 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:08.439 no hardening of that candy. there's no urgency 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:12.500 to get anything done. And so it can be this perpetual 00:07:12.500 --> 00:07:16.279 meeting and clarification during the meeting, 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:19.220 after the meeting, pre -meeting, post -meeting. 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:21.899 Just, let's just do another meeting and talk. 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:26.839 Yeah. Well, and so if you have anybody at the 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:29.540 table that has at all a procrastinating bone 00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:33.199 in their body, that one brief meeting can turn 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:35.259 into a month's worth of follow -up and nothing 00:07:35.259 --> 00:07:38.439 ever happens. Yeah. Even as you say that, Chris, 00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:41.819 I'm looking around my desk at the six half -finished 00:07:41.819 --> 00:07:45.079 things that I... Yeah. Maybe that's a unique 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:49.759 thing, but we've talked about those moments of 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:53.220 getting into flow and having enough clear running 00:07:53.220 --> 00:07:55.639 room to really be super productive. There was 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:57.660 a lot of good things that happened today, but 00:07:57.660 --> 00:08:01.649 one of them was not... crossing important objectives 00:08:01.649 --> 00:08:05.250 off my list. And I started the day with two or 00:08:05.250 --> 00:08:07.209 three, and I finished the day with the same two 00:08:07.209 --> 00:08:10.029 or three plus two more. So somehow I managed 00:08:10.029 --> 00:08:12.750 to go backwards and didn't get a single finished 00:08:12.750 --> 00:08:16.410 Dennis Rodman hollypop out the door. I know. 00:08:17.149 --> 00:08:19.970 That does remind me of like everybody in January, 00:08:21.110 --> 00:08:22.889 like, what is it, your New Year's resolution, 00:08:23.029 --> 00:08:25.170 my New Year's resolution is still just 20 pounds. 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:28.360 Only 25 more to go, you know, something like 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:30.180 that. Like that's what college work feels like 00:08:30.180 --> 00:08:32.279 a lot of times. Well, Chrissy, I think it's an 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:35.779 interesting thing because, you know, as Gen Xers, 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:39.159 we were told that the path to success, and I 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:41.899 think it was in terms of professional success 00:08:41.899 --> 00:08:44.840 and certainly not working in the heat or the 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:46.919 cold of whatever weather you're exposed to, but 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:51.879 it was go to school, get a good job and, and 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:56.639 do good work. And the difficulty, in this professional 00:08:56.639 --> 00:08:59.659 realm, unless we're providing some very clear 00:08:59.659 --> 00:09:02.559 cut transactional service, you know, for in the 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:05.659 business of banking and our job is lending or 00:09:05.659 --> 00:09:08.940 as an attorney, we're producing a specific deliverable 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:11.440 for a client. Oftentimes it's hard to see what 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.159 the transactional start and stop of something 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:17.220 is, especially when we're inside of a big organization. 00:09:18.150 --> 00:09:21.370 You know we could toil away for for weeks or 00:09:21.370 --> 00:09:23.950 months or years and not see the completion of 00:09:23.950 --> 00:09:29.490 the whole cycle necessarily So yeah Well, there's 00:09:29.490 --> 00:09:32.149 a bit of a lulling to sleep right because you 00:09:32.149 --> 00:09:34.889 can have so much ways with the knowledge work 00:09:34.889 --> 00:09:40.330 that You know everybody productive. Yeah, not 00:09:40.330 --> 00:09:44.450 effective Where it's like the real defective 00:09:44.450 --> 00:09:47.370 knowledge work is just doing useless well, you 00:09:47.370 --> 00:09:51.259 know And it's so hard to know, you know, I think 00:09:51.259 --> 00:09:52.940 we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, just 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:57.200 being aligned oftentimes or misaligned. Like 00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:59.419 we talked about communication and how that's 00:09:59.419 --> 00:10:01.179 kind of like, hey, we need this thing. And you're 00:10:01.179 --> 00:10:02.799 like, is that really what you need? Are you looking 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:05.679 for something deeper? Kind of doing that five 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:12.779 why analysis. And I think, you know, because 00:10:12.779 --> 00:10:16.179 we're social and because we're territorial and 00:10:16.179 --> 00:10:21.570 communal. beings We can get away with that waste 00:10:21.570 --> 00:10:24.970 because of the communities which are the our 00:10:24.970 --> 00:10:28.809 places of employment, but But you can't do that 00:10:28.809 --> 00:10:30.789 on the factory because you've got money that 00:10:30.789 --> 00:10:33.309 goes into raw materials and that raw materials 00:10:33.309 --> 00:10:36.669 Has to you know turn into a sucker and get a 00:10:36.669 --> 00:10:39.090 wrapper on it. It is interesting and I think 00:10:39.090 --> 00:10:42.250 you make a distinction too between knowledge 00:10:42.250 --> 00:10:46.210 work that is directly facing a customer where 00:10:46.210 --> 00:10:49.669 it's the product versus knowledge work inside 00:10:49.669 --> 00:10:53.950 of a really complex organism that we call a corporation, 00:10:54.590 --> 00:10:57.970 right? And the more steps removed we are from 00:10:57.970 --> 00:11:01.690 servicing a customer, the boundaries become and 00:11:01.690 --> 00:11:04.529 the less clear the actual purpose of the work 00:11:04.529 --> 00:11:08.250 becomes, or at least is at risk of becoming less 00:11:08.250 --> 00:11:12.590 clear. Yeah. And one of the things we've talked 00:11:12.590 --> 00:11:16.190 about a lot is like, What's the output? And I 00:11:16.190 --> 00:11:21.009 think a lot of times we confuse outcome, what 00:11:21.009 --> 00:11:23.850 actually happened with the never ending process 00:11:23.850 --> 00:11:26.850 of meetings and emails and PowerPoints. You know, 00:11:26.870 --> 00:11:28.289 like one of the things we've done in the past 00:11:28.289 --> 00:11:30.450 was a cashflow calculator, which was like, look, 00:11:30.470 --> 00:11:33.429 if you just broke your finances out and you did 00:11:33.429 --> 00:11:36.889 a prediction every month, if we simply did one 00:11:36.889 --> 00:11:40.669 thing in business is we just analyze people's 00:11:40.669 --> 00:11:44.159 ability to predict and be accurate. we would 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:47.080 find oftentimes we are promoting the confident, 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:51.960 inexperienced, right, or the confident storytellers. 00:11:52.340 --> 00:11:54.440 And maybe not necessarily the people that are 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:59.799 more accurate. Well, Chris, so the idea of what 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:02.820 is defective knowledge work, I like this topic 00:12:02.820 --> 00:12:05.139 that we've talked through it. There's some examples 00:12:05.139 --> 00:12:09.940 where it is, it doesn't produce an outcome. That 00:12:09.940 --> 00:12:12.690 feels like wasted time, but Maybe there's other 00:12:12.690 --> 00:12:15.830 elements, like how do listeners approach this 00:12:15.830 --> 00:12:19.590 idea of managing to lower defects? How do we 00:12:19.590 --> 00:12:21.909 six -signa the defects out of knowledge work? 00:12:22.190 --> 00:12:24.909 I think we have to be really curious and inquisitive, 00:12:25.070 --> 00:12:26.789 right? So like the funny thing is you're talking 00:12:26.789 --> 00:12:31.149 about defects and I instantly went to really 00:12:31.149 --> 00:12:35.389 nice PowerPoints that have no basis in reality, 00:12:37.509 --> 00:12:42.779 right? Where you get Crops or you get resources 00:12:42.779 --> 00:12:47.820 based on that pretty output but really from a 00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:50.960 system standpoint that could be a defect because 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:53.080 you're actually not helping the system because 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:56.460 you're rewarding you're sending resources to 00:12:56.460 --> 00:13:00.019 areas that either aren't proven or Aren't questioned 00:13:00.019 --> 00:13:02.740 or right, you know, whatever well and how many 00:13:02.740 --> 00:13:06.259 hours go into beautifying a PowerPoint concept 00:13:06.259 --> 00:13:10.500 for an audience of ten or less They I know that 00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:13.139 I've but that's the norm. That's what was expected 00:13:13.139 --> 00:13:17.960 Not a productive use of time and energy But yeah 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:20.679 prettier it is what it feels right the more qualified 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:25.100 the opinion appears Well, the thing is it just 00:13:25.100 --> 00:13:27.740 works that's the problem right like it's almost 00:13:27.740 --> 00:13:31.500 like it's our internal Storytelling in a human 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:36.240 defect of like we'll believe a story Because 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:38.700 we have to, because our world is so complex. 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:42.960 If you have props, it's that much more believable. 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:46.279 It's super interesting, this idea of defects. 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.740 I think we could all take a minute to ask ourselves, 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:53.860 like, what defects am I living with that absorb 00:13:53.860 --> 00:13:57.779 my attention, my energy, or simply clutter the 00:13:57.779 --> 00:14:01.899 landscape of important things? So sometimes it's 00:14:01.899 --> 00:14:08.600 just bad requests, right? Oh, the urgent? Absolutely. 00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:12.740 Over the important? If you can do Excel or you 00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:15.580 can, you know, create a Power BI report, the 00:14:15.580 --> 00:14:19.960 urgent over the important is just a, that is 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:23.100 just a, man, that hits me good because I've been 00:14:23.100 --> 00:14:25.259 in those roles where I've seen people get destroyed 00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:28.320 by like, oh, you have another flavor of the month 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:30.980 report. You're like, well, is it accurate? And 00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:32.100 you're like, well, we're not really sure. It's 00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:33.559 impossible to know, but we're going to do it 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.299 anyway. Yeah, yeah, how many times are we gonna 00:14:37.299 --> 00:14:39.659 use this? Oh, just this one time. It's like well, 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:41.320 you're never gonna you're actually never going 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:44.799 to improve That report if you're just gonna be 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:48.019 at one time cuz I know it's funny I had a really 00:14:48.019 --> 00:14:50.860 good a good friend that was just phenomenal at 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:53.659 creating just stitching data together and creating 00:14:53.659 --> 00:14:58.200 yeah reports and You know, he was telling me 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:01.220 one time where he he delivered the report his 00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:03.980 report kind of got some legs within the organization 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:08.620 And it kind of led to two camps of thought that 00:15:08.620 --> 00:15:12.080 were completely different. That would definitely 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:17.480 be the same data supporting two. Yeah, two contrary 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:23.600 opinions. And he's like, Oh my gosh. Yeah, that 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:25.759 would be a difference. I think even as we talk 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:27.580 this through, it just makes me think we have 00:15:27.580 --> 00:15:30.960 the international standards for everything under 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:35.279 the sun. You know, from ball bearings to grease 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:39.360 viscosity to actual process work, I guess, goes 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:43.259 back to this. To define a defect, we have to 00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:46.960 know what the standard is. I think today's conversation 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.580 is that question of, if you don't know what good 00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:52.240 is like, if you don't know what the use of the 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:55.440 output is, then there's probably more inquiry, 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:57.740 you know, that's necessary before you just lunge 00:15:57.740 --> 00:16:01.840 in. Yeah. Well, the interesting thing is like 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:08.740 I would say is is it simply repeatable And if 00:16:08.740 --> 00:16:11.840 it's not repeatable and you're not doing a one 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:17.059 -off analysis Then you probably are there's probably 00:16:17.059 --> 00:16:23.279 a land of defects In your email in your you know 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:27.679 Excel folders and your power bi reports if it 00:16:28.189 --> 00:16:31.149 You're living with defects and actually probably 00:16:31.149 --> 00:16:35.409 causing defects. I want more Dennis Rodman lollipops. 00:16:37.509 --> 00:16:40.029 I mean, there you go. I'll have to look them 00:16:40.029 --> 00:16:42.169 up and send you and see if anybody's selling 00:16:42.169 --> 00:16:43.789 them on eBay. But we made it through a year, 00:16:43.929 --> 00:16:46.570 my friend. Happy year. Year of conversations. 00:16:46.870 --> 00:16:48.350 Thank you for letting us do another year of these. 00:16:48.450 --> 00:16:51.129 See you next week. All right. See you. Bye.