WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.700 What's up, Toby? Hey, man. Happy Friday. No, 00:00:02.700 --> 00:00:05.719 we made it more week. Another week. We're getting 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:08.380 close to a year. I know. Can you imagine that? 00:00:08.500 --> 00:00:12.359 Episode 51. I love it. Pretty exciting. 51. Let's 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:14.779 go. What's on your mind? Today's topic. Have 00:00:14.779 --> 00:00:20.820 you ever been in a corporation where your colleagues 00:00:20.820 --> 00:00:24.539 or maybe you have said, you know what we need? 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:28.500 We need more communication. Actually, hold on. 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:31.829 Let me stop there. A better question is, have 00:00:31.829 --> 00:00:35.270 you ever been in a group where that has not been 00:00:35.270 --> 00:00:41.149 a topic of conversation? Yeah. Has anybody ever 00:00:41.149 --> 00:00:44.130 asked me to not communicate or to communicate 00:00:44.130 --> 00:00:48.149 less? I've been asked to hold my opinions or 00:00:48.149 --> 00:00:52.310 keep them to multiple. I've been asked to think 00:00:52.310 --> 00:00:55.710 before I speak. Some of these were younger career 00:00:55.710 --> 00:00:59.140 versions. Oh, you know, you know, Chris, it's 00:00:59.140 --> 00:01:01.359 it's funny though, because usually when we have 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:03.439 a communication problem, we think it's a lack 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:06.439 of communication. Yes. Right. So it's usually 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:09.579 an ask for more. Correct. There's a question 00:01:09.579 --> 00:01:11.519 behind your question, which is always what I 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.579 love digging into. Well, what brought this to 00:01:14.579 --> 00:01:16.459 mind this week? It sounds like there's something 00:01:16.459 --> 00:01:18.620 kind of I mean, I don't know if it was this week, 00:01:18.620 --> 00:01:20.959 but I just I've been I've been trying, you know, 00:01:20.980 --> 00:01:23.200 we talk a lot about meetings. Maybe I've got 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.439 a maybe we've got a problem with meetings, but 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:29.129 I was I was in and I was, you know, we had an 00:01:29.129 --> 00:01:31.069 all hands or whatever and we were, you know, 00:01:31.090 --> 00:01:34.209 talking and it, this topic just seems to come 00:01:34.209 --> 00:01:39.129 up. And I don't, I think what's interesting about 00:01:39.129 --> 00:01:42.609 this is it's an under something underlying is 00:01:42.609 --> 00:01:48.670 broken. Yeah. And, but the response is more meetings 00:01:48.670 --> 00:01:52.030 that are structured in the same way that aren't 00:01:52.030 --> 00:01:56.939 necessarily giving the quote -unquote communication 00:01:56.939 --> 00:02:03.819 that the people are expecting. So it's not even 00:02:03.819 --> 00:02:05.780 that they need more communications, it's that 00:02:05.780 --> 00:02:07.980 they don't understand what they are hearing. 00:02:08.060 --> 00:02:11.039 Yeah, yeah. And they can't make sense of it. 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:12.639 Like you can't just raise your hand and say, 00:02:12.699 --> 00:02:15.400 you know what, I've been here for 15 years and 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:17.759 I actually don't know where I fit in this org 00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:23.389 anymore. Like you can't, you can't. Maybe that's 00:02:23.389 --> 00:02:25.030 the honest conversation a lot of people need 00:02:25.030 --> 00:02:28.909 to have. I think that's probably really true. 00:02:29.490 --> 00:02:31.270 I've been sitting in a meeting for a year and 00:02:31.270 --> 00:02:35.810 I don't know why. Or we talk about things that 00:02:35.810 --> 00:02:37.689 don't seem to have anything to do with creating 00:02:37.689 --> 00:02:40.129 value for our customers. Why are we talking about 00:02:40.129 --> 00:02:46.289 this? But those are impolite things to say. And 00:02:46.289 --> 00:02:53.219 also they can be career limiting, right? My favorite 00:02:53.219 --> 00:02:55.919 is when you have that, like that coworker that 00:02:55.919 --> 00:03:00.120 just is not afraid or is unaware of their career 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:03.000 and limited questions. And it's like, Oh, get 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:06.099 your popcorn. Johnny's going to play something. 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:10.500 In the bullpen. Here they come. Here it goes. 00:03:11.860 --> 00:03:14.879 Yeah. You know, Chris, I think that this idea 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:18.139 of for all of the written messaging and all of 00:03:18.139 --> 00:03:22.050 the discussions and conversations. We often fail 00:03:22.050 --> 00:03:25.729 to provide the most basic context to let people 00:03:25.729 --> 00:03:30.430 kind of land in a discussion. So I go back and 00:03:30.430 --> 00:03:32.409 I know you and I've talked about it a lot probably 00:03:32.409 --> 00:03:35.909 on this podcast too, but it begins with what 00:03:35.909 --> 00:03:38.750 is the purpose of a meeting? And then you remind 00:03:38.750 --> 00:03:42.650 people even while we're there and the further 00:03:42.650 --> 00:03:44.669 people are from the day -to -day activities of 00:03:44.669 --> 00:03:48.819 that group or that purpose. It's really hard 00:03:48.819 --> 00:03:52.539 to fly in to your fifth meeting in a day and 00:03:52.539 --> 00:03:55.479 remember what the hell the agenda is about. And 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:58.240 we do that to our decision makers all the time. 00:03:59.659 --> 00:04:03.719 So why did they make such bad decisions? Well, 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.219 they tried to make a decision based on what we 00:04:06.219 --> 00:04:08.080 presented them with. Well, what's interesting 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:10.240 is like, I think when people want communication, 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:12.180 it's like, look, where do I fit? Where are we 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:15.960 headed? Right. How do we align? And the reality 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:20.850 is like, if The communication is meeting the 00:04:20.850 --> 00:04:23.449 audience, which I think sometimes is hard, right? 00:04:23.550 --> 00:04:25.290 Nothing's been more frustrating in my career 00:04:25.290 --> 00:04:28.370 when I'm Building this PowerPoint and I think 00:04:28.370 --> 00:04:30.430 you know, like there's you know There's been 00:04:30.430 --> 00:04:32.470 a couple times where I build like this kind of 00:04:32.470 --> 00:04:38.329 snarky funny a little bit Sarcastic PowerPoint 00:04:38.329 --> 00:04:40.550 and my boss has been who's your audience and 00:04:40.550 --> 00:04:43.069 I'm like executives and then I'm like, well, 00:04:43.069 --> 00:04:45.209 that's just dumb like that's not gonna land well 00:04:45.209 --> 00:04:51.019 like But, but, but I think the same is true, 00:04:51.019 --> 00:04:55.439 like for us, like sometimes we, we aren't, we 00:04:55.439 --> 00:05:01.459 are too afraid to, or we don't slow down enough 00:05:01.459 --> 00:05:06.220 because what we're asking for is if what I heard, 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:08.800 right? So when you're saying communication, it's 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:12.959 like, if what I heard could align with what I'm 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:16.649 doing for 40 plus hours a week, that I wouldn't 00:05:16.649 --> 00:05:19.149 need any communication. You wouldn't actually 00:05:19.149 --> 00:05:24.610 even really need any meetings. Truly. I think 00:05:24.610 --> 00:05:28.389 too, so many stakeholders, you may be in the 00:05:28.389 --> 00:05:31.230 middle of a project or your functional area, 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:34.870 the work that you do has a scope, but people 00:05:34.870 --> 00:05:37.230 that ask for more communication have a different 00:05:37.230 --> 00:05:41.769 purpose. They're trying to translate from your 00:05:41.769 --> 00:05:44.209 outcome to how they're impacted by the work you're 00:05:44.209 --> 00:05:47.920 doing. But we don't always, we have a hard time 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:52.639 communicating about communicating. The other 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:55.180 reason why I thought of this is I just finished 00:05:55.180 --> 00:06:03.199 a book on, forget what it was on. It was on regret. 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:08.220 And it talked about no regrets. And so it talks 00:06:08.220 --> 00:06:11.459 about tattoos and people have no regrets. And 00:06:11.459 --> 00:06:16.000 then this guy did this world regret. survey where 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:18.639 he basically asked people. And people would say 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:23.800 the same thing, but the underlying motivation 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.040 of why they did the same thing is completely 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:30.959 different, right? One might be a missed opportunity 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.199 and it wasn't courageous, right? Whereas the 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:36.860 other one, you know, literally same decision, 00:06:36.980 --> 00:06:39.480 but it wasn't necessarily courageous. It was 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:44.319 just more about, you know, I chose security, 00:06:44.339 --> 00:06:48.079 right? Because that was more important. And so 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:51.139 it just made me think about this. And I think 00:06:51.139 --> 00:06:54.399 part of it was I was reading the book on regret, 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:58.259 and then the next day I have a meeting, and people 00:06:58.259 --> 00:07:00.860 in the meeting are asking for something that 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:05.199 they're not really going to get if you just do 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:09.220 more, right? More emails doesn't actually make 00:07:09.220 --> 00:07:20.240 us... better It's true I I think For those people 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:23.240 that are still foolish enough to be engaged in 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:26.139 social media and I count myself among them you 00:07:26.139 --> 00:07:28.199 know, there's there'll be a series of memes that 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:31.480 come across and then and we all know that the 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:35.620 algorithm is dialed so that whatever is is You 00:07:35.620 --> 00:07:37.839 know capturing your attention. It's gonna flood 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:42.240 you with more of that. Yeah And so of late, you 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:44.860 know, there's certainly been things about about 00:07:44.860 --> 00:07:47.879 just healthier living, but also, you know, better 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:50.899 being in a better mind space. Yep. And one of 00:07:50.899 --> 00:07:53.220 the memes that keeps coming up is this idea of 00:07:53.220 --> 00:07:57.339 like, happy people do less, but they do it more 00:07:57.339 --> 00:08:02.300 effectively. Right. They lean into a smaller 00:08:02.300 --> 00:08:05.100 set of things and get very focused instead of 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:08.680 trying to truck all over God's green earth and 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:12.540 do seven hundred. And I feel like to your point 00:08:12.540 --> 00:08:15.500 in 40 hours, it could either feel like I have 00:08:15.500 --> 00:08:19.319 nothing to do because I did one. Or it could 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.040 be, oh my God, I've got 70 ,000 things to do. 00:08:23.259 --> 00:08:26.420 Truthfully, I think my sweet spot is about a 00:08:26.420 --> 00:08:31.660 dozen tasks a day at one material thing. Because 00:08:31.660 --> 00:08:33.779 it gives me enough to feel like I have to be 00:08:33.779 --> 00:08:36.769 on point and track through things. I want to 00:08:36.769 --> 00:08:39.409 be able to lean into one juicy thing and that's 00:08:39.409 --> 00:08:41.570 the thing I take away for the day. Yeah. You 00:08:41.570 --> 00:08:44.210 know, give or take, right? It varies. But, and, 00:08:44.210 --> 00:08:47.769 and so I think when we were being asked for more 00:08:47.769 --> 00:08:50.970 communication, a lot of times somebody's only 00:08:50.970 --> 00:08:53.370 told us they've repeated the message poorly. 00:08:53.549 --> 00:08:55.990 I don't know how many times that happens. Like 00:08:55.990 --> 00:08:58.490 the kids game telephone, telephone, where you 00:08:58.490 --> 00:09:01.429 whisper and the message comes around and it's 00:09:01.429 --> 00:09:05.080 so wrong. But I feel like that's adulting writ 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:08.480 large. It's all story poems and versions of telephone 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.460 telephone. Yeah, no, for sure. And I think where 00:09:11.460 --> 00:09:15.240 this is important is oftentimes the broken process 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:21.899 is so far away from our awareness that we don't 00:09:21.899 --> 00:09:24.779 even actually know what to ask. So other things 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:27.279 that people ask is, we need better tools. It's 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:30.039 like, do you really? Or do you need people to, 00:09:30.220 --> 00:09:33.559 do you need to be more aligned? Corporately or 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:36.019 from a department standpoint like we're working 00:09:36.019 --> 00:09:40.159 too many hours Right or we don't have enough 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:44.940 resources Like those are all things where it's 00:09:44.940 --> 00:09:48.279 like what what what part of the process is broken 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:52.659 and I guarantee you that something's broken Yeah, 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.299 and so Did we talk about mine? We talked a little 00:09:56.299 --> 00:09:59.460 bit about vibe coping vibe coding a couple. Yeah, 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:02.830 one of the things that I built and I On that 00:10:02.830 --> 00:10:04.269 yeah one of things that I built that I want to 00:10:04.269 --> 00:10:06.169 publish and I need to figure out how to publish 00:10:06.169 --> 00:10:08.730 it and not Cost myself a bunch of money because 00:10:08.730 --> 00:10:10.870 it does use AI which you know sure it's pennies, 00:10:10.870 --> 00:10:12.690 but like if this thing's takes off I don't want 00:10:12.690 --> 00:10:15.929 to have you know yeah, you know all sorts of 00:10:15.929 --> 00:10:19.289 stuff, but but basically it's out It's the five 00:10:19.289 --> 00:10:25.029 wise But it's five wise for teams right so And 00:10:25.029 --> 00:10:28.700 so like this again is like okay Why do we need 00:10:28.700 --> 00:10:30.600 more communication? Right? So the way that this 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:32.919 works is like you would basically, you would 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.539 enter a room, right? And that in that room, you 00:10:36.539 --> 00:10:38.320 would give everybody the room key and they would 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:41.200 basically answer that question. Well, why, right? 00:10:41.340 --> 00:10:42.679 And so you have everybody in your team, like 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:44.679 you got 17. Well, why do we need more communication? 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:47.440 And you get five, you get, you know, however 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:50.120 many people on your team respond to that. The 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:53.659 AI actually takes all of those responses, asks 00:10:53.659 --> 00:10:56.279 three more questions. the team gets to pick the 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:58.120 next question and you ask that and you figure 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:01.700 out five times. Because I think so often we think 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:05.019 we're doing work because we have to do what is 00:11:05.019 --> 00:11:07.879 socially acceptable, but we actually don't really 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:12.460 know why I think a lot. Boy, that's true. We 00:11:12.460 --> 00:11:14.659 want, we want a sense of purpose. Yeah, for sure. 00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:18.419 I think we're so true. And so what can be a bigger 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:22.620 grind than performing tasks that lack purpose? 00:11:22.659 --> 00:11:25.259 We don't understand the why behind. all this 00:11:25.259 --> 00:11:29.820 effort. Chris, what a great way to charter a 00:11:29.820 --> 00:11:33.419 project. When you first pull a group of stakeholders 00:11:33.419 --> 00:11:35.980 together to talk about embarking on some effort, 00:11:36.980 --> 00:11:40.620 the frustration maybe felt in little ways across 00:11:40.620 --> 00:11:42.820 several people, but it doesn't feel material 00:11:42.820 --> 00:11:45.320 enough to come together and invest all this time 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:48.419 because we're only seeing a little piece of it. 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:51.879 You raised a really interesting question about 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:54.440 How do we bring people together for shared perspective? 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:57.559 And what is that necessary? Is it when we begin? 00:11:57.899 --> 00:12:02.120 Is it every time we meet? Yeah. And really, really 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:05.679 the point of this podcast is not really, it's 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:08.779 not like, you know, go and change the world, 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:12.580 right? This is really like, figure out the why. 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:18.899 Like dig deep, dig below the patent safe response. 00:12:19.529 --> 00:12:23.610 and really think why. And I think, because I've 00:12:23.610 --> 00:12:25.590 thought a lot about the word communication, and 00:12:25.590 --> 00:12:29.110 I think it's like, look, I'm not aligned is really 00:12:29.110 --> 00:12:31.870 ultimately what it's saying, or I'm not sure 00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:36.009 if I'm aligned. And so, and how do we align as 00:12:36.009 --> 00:12:38.769 an org to the corporate goal? Because no one 00:12:38.769 --> 00:12:41.950 wants to be like this person that's out in left 00:12:41.950 --> 00:12:44.690 field trying to figure out what's going on, playing 00:12:44.690 --> 00:12:47.009 the wrong, you know. they're playing baseball 00:12:47.009 --> 00:12:48.570 and everybody else is playing soccer. Like no 00:12:48.570 --> 00:12:50.330 one wants to do that, but I think sometimes work 00:12:50.330 --> 00:12:54.610 feels that way. And so our response, and really 00:12:54.610 --> 00:12:56.730 the politically safe thing to say is we need 00:12:56.730 --> 00:13:00.649 more communication, right? But you're going to 00:13:00.649 --> 00:13:03.730 get the same communication in the same way, unless 00:13:03.730 --> 00:13:06.669 management changes it. And so then you continue 00:13:06.669 --> 00:13:08.690 to ask, we need more communication. And then 00:13:08.690 --> 00:13:12.429 it's this cycle that basically no one's actually 00:13:12.429 --> 00:13:17.250 being fulfilled. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody 00:13:17.250 --> 00:13:20.289 is still frustrated. Oh, yeah. So I love this 00:13:20.289 --> 00:13:22.769 thought about how we interrupt, you know, the 00:13:22.769 --> 00:13:25.970 question. Sometimes it's also the question behind 00:13:25.970 --> 00:13:29.029 the question. So somebody says they make it a 00:13:29.029 --> 00:13:31.570 statement. We need to increase the communication 00:13:31.570 --> 00:13:36.070 or I need more frequency or more detail. But 00:13:36.070 --> 00:13:38.129 instead of just complying and guessing at what 00:13:38.129 --> 00:13:41.029 they need, I don't know that. My experience has 00:13:41.029 --> 00:13:43.250 always been that people have sought clarity about 00:13:43.250 --> 00:13:45.129 what's missing before they just start adding 00:13:45.129 --> 00:13:48.610 to the pile. So meetings go from once a week 00:13:48.610 --> 00:13:51.730 to twice a week, but we don't understand what 00:13:51.730 --> 00:13:55.730 the focusing gap was. So your Y focus is a really 00:13:55.730 --> 00:13:59.990 great call out here. It's just until we can read 00:13:59.990 --> 00:14:04.730 minds and stop pretending that we do. We're gonna 00:14:04.730 --> 00:14:07.529 have these these missing elements. So yeah, it's 00:14:07.529 --> 00:14:09.570 interesting like I think I think the other thing 00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:11.230 that I've been thinking about is like productivity 00:14:11.230 --> 00:14:13.970 like productivity shows up in my app all day 00:14:13.970 --> 00:14:17.350 every day And I've just I've been thinking about 00:14:17.350 --> 00:14:21.330 that. Like does it really matter? And what I 00:14:21.330 --> 00:14:27.730 mean by that is like, okay, I Can do more tasks 00:14:27.730 --> 00:14:30.570 in a thing, but if those tasks aren't aligned 00:14:30.570 --> 00:14:33.730 if they aren't solving a problem in the market 00:14:35.379 --> 00:14:39.639 then what is the point of doing more of those 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:43.500 menial tasks that basically make me feel like 00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:52.159 I'm doing work? Yeah. Does it matter if you did 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:56.000 700 things today? It didn't matter to you or 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:57.279 that you did one thing that mattered? Correct. 00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.799 And I think, you know, I don't know if it's COVID 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:01.700 or if it's the fact that we've lost our ability 00:15:01.700 --> 00:15:05.899 to focus. But we have replaced lots of little 00:15:05.899 --> 00:15:10.820 non like non repeatable tasks with something 00:15:10.820 --> 00:15:15.480 that can be kissed consistent and known. And 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:17.700 I don't I don't have the solution to that. I 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:21.840 just I mean, I mean, well, oh, shoot. I know. 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:24.159 Oh, I guess. I mean, if you're a manager and 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:25.860 you have some sort of authority, you can run 00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:32.809 your meetings. Yeah. Right. I would say leadership 00:15:32.809 --> 00:15:36.669 is situational, right? And so if you're convening 00:15:36.669 --> 00:15:38.309 people, it's not just an opportunity. I think 00:15:38.309 --> 00:15:43.110 it's an obligation to tell them why they're there 00:15:43.110 --> 00:15:46.850 and what the intention is and what the desired 00:15:46.850 --> 00:15:49.269 outcome is. Have you ever, random thought, have 00:15:49.269 --> 00:15:53.769 you ever gone to a Toastmasters meeting? I have 00:15:53.769 --> 00:15:56.750 not. I was in Toastmasters for probably two or 00:15:56.750 --> 00:16:01.029 three years and I've been in a couple other other 00:16:01.029 --> 00:16:04.289 organizations that are similar, that are business 00:16:04.289 --> 00:16:08.190 focused. Yeah. But it's very interesting in that 00:16:08.190 --> 00:16:13.389 like they have the same repetitive, boring meeting 00:16:13.389 --> 00:16:16.389 notes, right? It's like, Hey, can someone read 00:16:16.389 --> 00:16:18.889 the mission? And you're just like our mission 00:16:18.889 --> 00:16:21.169 and it's on the paper and you read what the paper 00:16:21.169 --> 00:16:23.509 says. And then you're like, this is this person, 00:16:23.669 --> 00:16:28.610 this person's doing this role. And they're it's 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:33.419 I'm kind of stumbling here, but when I've been 00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:38.320 in those meetings, there is this sense of calm 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:42.860 in knowing that every single time it's going 00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:45.279 to be the same. The speakers might be different, 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.960 right? You're still going to have the certain, 00:16:49.220 --> 00:16:50.860 you know, what's funny about Toastmasters is 00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:53.659 they'll count your ahs and ums and all of your 00:16:53.659 --> 00:16:57.019 little things, you know, and it's funny. I thought 00:16:57.019 --> 00:16:58.799 I was such a better speaker. And they're like, 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:03.299 Chris, you said 24 times in five minutes. And 00:17:03.299 --> 00:17:07.680 you're like, oh, man, that stinks. But again, 00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:10.440 it's really all about the practice and getting 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:15.200 better at speaking. And I think in business, 00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:17.460 if you have the authority to make the changes 00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:21.079 to the meetings, run the meetings. Run them well. 00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:24.559 Most of them are consistent. Make sure that everybody 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:28.630 knows why you're doing the meeting. And make 00:17:28.630 --> 00:17:30.609 sure that that Y makes sense to the people that 00:17:30.609 --> 00:17:33.569 are attending. Because if it doesn't, then people 00:17:33.569 --> 00:17:36.609 ask for more communication. You will have more 00:17:36.609 --> 00:17:38.450 distracted me's. The other thing that I've noticed, 00:17:38.569 --> 00:17:41.529 I don't know if you've seen this, but if you 00:17:41.529 --> 00:17:46.349 watch Zoom meetings, well, or I guess Teams has 00:17:46.349 --> 00:17:49.769 this feature where you can show up to 50 people 00:17:49.769 --> 00:17:53.049 in kind of a room. It sets them up in chairs 00:17:53.049 --> 00:17:57.559 and stuff. It's actually fairly cool. But I caught 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:04.299 myself watching people be distracted today earlier 00:18:04.299 --> 00:18:06.660 this week. And I was like, that's interesting. 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:09.140 We want more communication. We want to go to 00:18:09.140 --> 00:18:11.799 a meeting so that we can all check our phones 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:16.640 or do our email or whatever. I'm like, just show 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:22.549 up. I love that. I'll tell you. I don't remember 00:18:22.549 --> 00:18:25.309 if I'd mentioned her before, it's a friend here 00:18:25.309 --> 00:18:28.250 in the Portland, Oregon area named Elise Keith. 00:18:29.150 --> 00:18:31.150 And she and her husband co -founded a company 00:18:31.150 --> 00:18:33.210 called Lucid Meetings, probably a decade ago 00:18:33.210 --> 00:18:38.710 now. But Elise, in their work to build a better 00:18:38.710 --> 00:18:41.250 software solution for online meetings and meeting 00:18:41.250 --> 00:18:44.569 management, she did this incredible deep dive 00:18:44.569 --> 00:18:49.559 into the... you know, what is the schema and 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:53.960 organizational structure and the types of meeting? 00:18:54.339 --> 00:18:57.299 What are components of all this? And so she's, 00:18:58.099 --> 00:19:00.440 gosh, it's probably been, it was pre -COVID that 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.319 I want to say that she published her book, but 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.200 this idea of what is the anatomy of a healthy 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:10.930 meeting and then meeting with purpose. was really 00:19:10.930 --> 00:19:13.390 beautiful approach. And so I've continued to 00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:16.390 use that. Oftentimes it's not that it's new information 00:19:16.390 --> 00:19:18.390 that we don't have, it's that we don't think 00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:21.630 about the context. And so a lot of these skills, 00:19:21.650 --> 00:19:23.329 but we don't think about the context that people 00:19:23.329 --> 00:19:28.049 are bringing to our conversations. And so run 00:19:28.049 --> 00:19:32.990 it like you own it, run it like it matters. For 00:19:32.990 --> 00:19:35.230 sure. All right, man, we made it through another 00:19:35.230 --> 00:19:39.940 episode. Indeed, sir. Thank you. It's been a 00:19:39.940 --> 00:19:42.680 good year one. I appreciate your conversation. 00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:46.799 Absolutely. Next week, it's 52. We will have 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.980 a year in the blurbs. We'll put a bow on it. 00:19:50.019 --> 00:19:51.559 All right, man. See you then. Talk to you later. 00:19:52.299 --> 00:19:52.380 Bye.