WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.580 Hi, what's up, Toby? We made it another week. 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:07.740 Processed that podcast. Episode four, wait, we're 00:00:07.740 --> 00:00:11.820 not counting anymore. We're over 40, so that's 00:00:11.820 --> 00:00:14.539 good. We're getting a lot closer every day. We 00:00:14.539 --> 00:00:17.940 are, we are. Today we're talking about something 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:21.359 that I picked up on Instagram, which is the source 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:27.660 of all truth. Full sarcasm. It was actually a, 00:00:27.660 --> 00:00:29.679 it was a video of Steve Jobs talking about what 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:34.000 he did when he set up the Apple, the Apple one. 00:00:34.060 --> 00:00:36.859 So he was, he said, when I was in my garage, 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:42.039 I was born in the Apple one. And he said, he 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:45.159 knew the exact cost of every single Apple one 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:48.240 that went out. He was out physically collecting 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:51.299 the pieces of hardware to put in. Correct. Yeah. 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:56.289 Super easy. Super easy. So then he is successful 00:00:56.289 --> 00:00:59.729 he moves on to um, you know fun fact He sold 00:00:59.729 --> 00:01:01.990 those to my dad's cousin. My dad's cousin was 00:01:01.990 --> 00:01:07.189 the first He had a 25 000 dollar check to steve 00:01:07.189 --> 00:01:09.230 jobs for their apple ones to sell at the bite 00:01:09.230 --> 00:01:13.010 shops and In the bay area, uh, isn't that unbelievable 00:01:13.010 --> 00:01:15.109 ball world man. It's totally small world. Anyway, 00:01:15.290 --> 00:01:19.450 yeah, um love that But he talked about moving 00:01:19.450 --> 00:01:22.870 to the he he got big like his business grew right 00:01:22.870 --> 00:01:26.819 and as businesses grow uh, processes are more 00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:28.879 difficult. And he found out just from an accounting 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:33.920 standpoint, he found out how they managed the 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:36.980 cost of the Apple twos. And he's like, guess 00:01:36.980 --> 00:01:39.180 how they did it? They're like, well, we think 00:01:39.180 --> 00:01:41.620 we're this much. And then every quarter we do 00:01:41.620 --> 00:01:46.519 a true up. And so Steve Jobs in his classic curious 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:51.620 form, like, but, but why, what, what, like, why 00:01:51.620 --> 00:01:53.379 do we do this? Like we didn't do this when we 00:01:53.379 --> 00:01:55.599 were in the garage. When we were making the Apple 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:59.500 ones, that was not a... However, it is when they 00:01:59.500 --> 00:02:01.340 started making the Apple two. And so what he 00:02:01.340 --> 00:02:04.379 talked about is basically they just didn't have 00:02:04.379 --> 00:02:08.419 the processes in place to capture those costs. 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.099 And so he built those processes in when they 00:02:12.099 --> 00:02:13.939 went to their next version. I don't know if it 00:02:13.939 --> 00:02:15.780 was the Apple three or the Mac, the Macintosh, 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:22.000 but it's a really good story around processes. 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:24.919 Well, that idea that I think all of us have been 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:28.599 in that infancy phase where we have to understand 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:31.340 how all the parts come together. Yep. Right? 00:02:31.500 --> 00:02:33.580 And so we're super intimate with all the details. 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:37.360 Yep. And then God forbid that we're successful. 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:39.840 You know, the dog chases the car and catches 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:43.000 the bumper. It never happens, but when it does, 00:02:43.099 --> 00:02:45.780 you know what? And so, yeah, we find ourselves 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:50.000 in a new world of process. Yep. The interesting 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:53.150 thing that I... that I kind of pulled from this 00:02:53.150 --> 00:02:57.389 is like you have bureaucratic process. Okay. 00:02:57.909 --> 00:03:01.210 And then, you know, which is the over engineered, 00:03:01.270 --> 00:03:04.030 this is how we do it. You have no real answer 00:03:04.030 --> 00:03:07.409 to why it's just because all big companies do 00:03:07.409 --> 00:03:10.509 it this way. You're like, well, yeah, like the, 00:03:10.750 --> 00:03:12.789 but, but why do they do it? And then you have 00:03:12.789 --> 00:03:14.949 enabling process, which he had when he was in 00:03:14.949 --> 00:03:17.750 his, which, which he had when he was in his garage 00:03:17.750 --> 00:03:21.400 building Apple once. Yeah. Let's talk about that 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:24.180 a little bit because those are two, you know, 00:03:24.379 --> 00:03:28.180 kind of polar opposites of the spectrum from 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:31.080 a process that doesn't serve anybody, but it's 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:35.759 just been forced on us. Yeah. You know, public 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.360 education graduates know what that looks like 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:41.800 to get a degree or, you know, navigating the 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:46.139 DMV just to get your annual license. Jump on 00:03:46.139 --> 00:03:48.639 one foot, but I don't know that I don't know 00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:52.300 that People are as familiar or might recognize 00:03:52.300 --> 00:03:54.520 when they're operating in an enabling process. 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:57.580 We know what the suffering looks like But enabling 00:03:57.580 --> 00:04:00.139 processes sometimes are so smooth. We don't realize 00:04:00.139 --> 00:04:04.259 that it's by design There is there is there are 00:04:04.259 --> 00:04:11.900 no means for enabling process If you just experience 00:04:11.900 --> 00:04:13.740 something for which you've never seen a meme 00:04:13.740 --> 00:04:17.620 on Instagram, that is the definition. That's 00:04:17.620 --> 00:04:23.379 a good working definition, Chris. I believe you 00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:27.000 just run past it. Yeah. Because we are so flexible 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:31.420 as humans to be able to do all sorts of things, 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:35.740 live in all sorts of experience, like have social 00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:39.829 tribes, play politics at work. do all the things. 00:04:39.870 --> 00:04:44.389 Oh, yeah. And we don't think, oh man, that's 00:04:44.389 --> 00:04:48.269 just brilliant. Yeah. That process just makes 00:04:48.269 --> 00:04:51.509 my life easier. It's kind of like water is wet 00:04:51.509 --> 00:04:58.350 into a fish. The answer is, and? You know? Well, 00:04:58.430 --> 00:05:03.350 that is super interesting. I think, you know, 00:05:03.350 --> 00:05:06.000 in the spirit of process that... You know, we 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:08.379 see a bureaucratic process and we think, Oh God, 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:10.519 there's so many things I want to do to deconstruct. 00:05:11.819 --> 00:05:14.500 But conversely, we can take a more appreciative 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:17.199 approach and say, you know, what are the characteristics 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:20.939 of a healthy enabling process that we might try 00:05:20.939 --> 00:05:24.399 to embrace or model? And so any certain characteristics 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:28.399 that jump out at you? I was thinking of a colleague 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.480 that I've had in my past. When I first met him, 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.180 he just bugged me. And he bugged me because he 00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:40.259 had a ton of documentation. He said no all the 00:05:40.259 --> 00:05:44.639 time. He gave me ways to self -serve myself and 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.459 solve my own problems. The nerve of this guy. 00:05:48.139 --> 00:05:51.079 I hear he's a social creature. That's hard. It 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.300 bugged me a lot. And then I realized, oh, he 00:05:54.300 --> 00:06:00.540 just runs a really tight ship. Maybe the tightest 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:04.560 ship with this... Company that I worked for and 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:06.459 I think that that's the interesting thing. It's 00:06:06.459 --> 00:06:10.000 like look you're going to have bureaucratic process 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:14.220 When you just don't have boundaries Now that's 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:17.100 an interesting. Yeah, like think about how often 00:06:17.100 --> 00:06:19.319 just stuff changes. Well, what are we doing this 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:22.360 quarter? Oh, you know, we have to go and fill 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:26.100 out the new PowerPoint great Love it. It's my 00:06:26.100 --> 00:06:30.519 favorite. We're great. I want I want I want okay 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:34.160 We're in the JNI phase. I want some company to 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:37.439 create basically all they are, is they are a 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:42.620 marketing slash QBR slash monthly report company. 00:06:43.819 --> 00:06:45.980 And all you have to do is if you're a manager 00:06:45.980 --> 00:06:48.420 or an executive, you go in and you write the 00:06:48.420 --> 00:06:51.819 questions that you ask, maybe ask for updated 00:06:51.819 --> 00:06:56.500 images or something. And you have to ask that 00:06:56.500 --> 00:07:00.339 every time. And then you just have AI create 00:07:00.339 --> 00:07:03.000 or or human doesn't really matter create the 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.120 deck and make it the same every single time You 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:12.079 mean the AI called intern? Called marketing department. 00:07:13.139 --> 00:07:17.120 No, but you make a really good point like the 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:21.139 This individual when when boundaries are clear 00:07:21.139 --> 00:07:23.819 Yeah, and when scope is well known, it's easy 00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:27.269 to say I'll take it to the edge of my scope And 00:07:27.269 --> 00:07:29.529 I'll prepare it for you to pick it up where I'd 00:07:29.529 --> 00:07:35.069 be both. I think that's super interesting. The 00:07:35.069 --> 00:07:40.170 other thing is I think bureaucratic process are 00:07:40.170 --> 00:07:45.750 fear -based. Whereas empowering or enabling processes 00:07:45.750 --> 00:07:50.569 are often communal. Being more collaborative. 00:07:50.939 --> 00:07:54.120 Yeah, it's just how do we make everybody's life 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:56.019 better? What do we fix upstream? What do we fix 00:07:56.019 --> 00:07:59.360 downstream? Whereas a lot of bureaucratic things 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.560 is like, well, why are we doing this? We're back 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:06.759 in the 1900s. We missed something in our software 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:10.339 deploy or whatever. Ever since then, we've been 00:08:10.339 --> 00:08:13.519 doing this extra thing. And all the new people 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:16.220 are like, well, why do you do that thing at my 00:08:16.220 --> 00:08:17.740 old company? And they're like, we just do the 00:08:17.740 --> 00:08:21.129 thing. So it's the meatloaf. you know, you cut 00:08:21.129 --> 00:08:22.930 off the ends of the meatloaf or cut off the ends 00:08:22.930 --> 00:08:26.430 of the steak and it's just the pan. It's not 00:08:26.430 --> 00:08:28.990 saying stuff, but like, I don't think we realize 00:08:28.990 --> 00:08:39.289 how much we just run past things by just because 00:08:39.289 --> 00:08:45.590 we're social. Like, we want you to do a thing 00:08:45.590 --> 00:08:49.490 in a meeting, do a presentation or talk about 00:08:49.490 --> 00:08:55.539 something. And talk. But I don't know who we're 00:08:55.539 --> 00:08:58.220 talking for. What's the outcome? I don't know. 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:00.320 Maybe I'm wrapped around me, actually. I think 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:02.799 that idea, that kind of speaks to purpose, right? 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:05.460 Whether it's the social creature and if it's 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:08.899 to try to herd people to an outcome. I'm picturing 00:09:08.899 --> 00:09:13.220 that example. Maybe think about the TSA. I might 00:09:13.220 --> 00:09:16.120 be the only guy flying that hour and they still 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:20.710 want me to... serpentine through like 400 yards 00:09:20.710 --> 00:09:26.230 of pitchbacks. And yet the one time where in 00:09:26.230 --> 00:09:28.129 an idle moment, somebody went through and they 00:09:28.129 --> 00:09:30.889 just opened up one entire alley so I could just 00:09:30.889 --> 00:09:36.149 walk straight up. I was overjoyed. And it was 00:09:36.149 --> 00:09:39.409 a small thing, but it was a focus not on the 00:09:39.409 --> 00:09:41.389 process they were trying to control, but just 00:09:41.389 --> 00:09:43.690 recognizing there's not a blessed soul in this 00:09:43.690 --> 00:09:46.659 entire airport right now. So if he's running 00:09:46.659 --> 00:09:48.720 late, why don't we just let them walk directly 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.559 to the check -in? Just let them go. And so I 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:55.200 think that we've been talking around this idea 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:57.659 of a little bit of, is it about the controller? 00:09:57.740 --> 00:10:00.659 Is it about the people trying to navigate the 00:10:00.659 --> 00:10:04.279 problem a little bit? But the variability, I 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.940 love that call out. And with humans, we are wildly 00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:12.440 variable creatures. And so yeah, if what we have 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.850 is wide variability and no boundaries, then the 00:10:15.850 --> 00:10:19.570 process has to invariably get more rigid. Well, 00:10:19.570 --> 00:10:22.009 it's interesting, right? So like, I recently 00:10:22.009 --> 00:10:24.509 am doing some work on the house. I am not doing 00:10:24.509 --> 00:10:26.350 work. I'm having people doing work on the house. 00:10:26.370 --> 00:10:30.190 But I'm just thinking about like, what if, what 00:10:30.190 --> 00:10:33.610 if they ran their work day? Like my knowledge 00:10:33.610 --> 00:10:36.750 work day. Okay. Say more about that. How do you, 00:10:36.769 --> 00:10:38.990 how would you imagine looking? Have a meeting. 00:10:39.350 --> 00:10:44.159 Yeah. Without a clear blueprint. Me right or 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:48.059 without the right tools in the tool shed. Yeah, 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.100 or without the right screws that need to be used 00:10:52.100 --> 00:10:58.179 and Then have another meeting Yeah, and then 00:10:58.179 --> 00:11:03.279 talk about Something like talk about the color 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:07.399 Talk about lights talk about paint shades like 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:11.669 just about screws again. Let's go back Should 00:11:11.669 --> 00:11:16.049 they be galvanized grooves or are we half inch 00:11:16.049 --> 00:11:20.669 or one and a half inch? What are we doing? So 00:11:20.669 --> 00:11:22.450 you're suggesting these guys might be wildly 00:11:22.450 --> 00:11:24.389 more effective if they operated like knowledge 00:11:24.389 --> 00:11:26.830 workers? Well, I'm just saying what's interesting 00:11:26.830 --> 00:11:31.009 is that there's a problem, right? So here's what's 00:11:31.009 --> 00:11:33.169 happened. So there's been a couple of problems 00:11:33.169 --> 00:11:34.950 that I've caused because I'm like, hey, it'd 00:11:34.950 --> 00:11:36.710 be nice to have an outlet here. Let's put an 00:11:36.710 --> 00:11:39.080 outlet in, right? Yeah. And so the guy is like, 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:41.120 great, I'm going to charge you more money. Perfect. 00:11:41.500 --> 00:11:44.019 Wonderful. Love it. Yeah. I'm really happy to 00:11:44.019 --> 00:11:46.340 have an outlet where I want it. And then there's 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:48.360 been a couple other times where he's like, ooh, 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:54.279 yeah, you see the board. It's not OBS, OSB. It's 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:58.279 not OSB. It's this black sponge board thing. 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:00.840 They're like, yeah, that's going to cost you. 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:02.799 Oh, by the way, you know, but like everything 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:05.860 is the decision. Yeah. Yeah. And the meetings. 00:12:06.110 --> 00:12:09.529 The meetings that I have are ad hoc. They're 00:12:09.529 --> 00:12:12.350 scrum -ish in that, hey, here's the problem. 00:12:12.590 --> 00:12:14.190 You have a decision to make. What do you want 00:12:14.190 --> 00:12:18.230 to do? And I'm the decision maker. And so you 00:12:18.230 --> 00:12:21.370 have less meetings because the outcome is clear 00:12:21.370 --> 00:12:25.009 because I signed up for something. The changes 00:12:25.009 --> 00:12:27.129 are clear because I either asked for them or 00:12:27.129 --> 00:12:29.690 we discover something. But if you think about 00:12:29.690 --> 00:12:32.450 a typical day as a knowledge worker and it is 00:12:32.450 --> 00:12:38.100 like, it's like whack -a -mole education, whack 00:12:38.100 --> 00:12:40.639 -a -mole, who's making the decision. It's who's 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:44.440 on first. Yeah. Chris, that's so interesting 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:47.940 because you're right. I've touched on this in 00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:51.220 the past. I've had an unusual opportunity as 00:12:51.220 --> 00:12:54.620 a knowledge worker to be involved in some pretty 00:12:54.620 --> 00:12:58.080 major construction projects for a client and 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.500 to watch the way the site runs, much like at 00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:05.120 your house. Yeah. These trades persons have spent 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:07.820 years developing master within their unique domain. 00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:09.899 The plumber doesn't go over to the electrician 00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:13.840 and tell them to push in. You know, and they 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:16.799 certainly don't consult the roofer if drainage 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:19.360 issues, like they know there's a person to go 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:22.159 to and that's the person whose domain it is to 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:25.240 be very accurate. In the knowledge space though, 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:27.419 we don't always respect that people have all 00:13:27.419 --> 00:13:30.600 this inherent process that they've cultivated 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.799 and that they gathered. to be able to navigate 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:36.659 so many of these situations. So, you're right. 00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:39.600 The corporate world talks endlessly about galvanized 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:42.539 versus non -galvanized screws, and the trades 00:13:42.539 --> 00:13:47.399 world just gets it done. It's interesting because 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:53.159 I think some of it is like, our knowledge work 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:57.720 is so complex. And so it's not, oftentimes it's 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:00.840 not a simple A plus B. Like software is the hardest 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:04.409 thing to do in the world. Now J &I is going to 00:14:04.409 --> 00:14:07.289 help make good programmers good and probably 00:14:07.289 --> 00:14:12.990 make bad programmers worse maybe But the interesting 00:14:12.990 --> 00:14:15.370 thing is like it's hard to know what the definition 00:14:15.370 --> 00:14:18.970 of done is because you're telling people How 00:14:18.970 --> 00:14:23.549 do you do this process? Yeah, and even if it's 00:14:23.549 --> 00:14:27.009 as simple as how do I make my coffee? In the 00:14:27.009 --> 00:14:31.549 morning people just literally can't explain Interesting 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:38.860 And so it ends up being very interesting because 00:14:38.860 --> 00:14:41.600 oftentimes when you say, look, why are you doing 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:43.600 this? They'll tell you, well, this is what I 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.440 do. And you're like, I appreciate that. Love 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:48.559 the fact that you've told me what you're doing, 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.759 but why do you do it? And I think this comes 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:54.299 back to that enabling process. When there's a 00:14:54.299 --> 00:14:58.360 strong why, then the process takes care of itself. 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:03.110 Yeah. Yeah, if there's not a strong wire, there's 00:15:03.110 --> 00:15:07.309 fear. Yeah. It becomes a lot of CYA. I love that. 00:15:07.490 --> 00:15:09.690 Yeah. If the focus of the process is about getting 00:15:09.690 --> 00:15:12.769 to an outcome. Yeah. Build me an awesome deck 00:15:12.769 --> 00:15:17.149 that I can enjoy this fall. Yep. That feels very 00:15:17.149 --> 00:15:19.250 enabling. You know, exactly what questions need 00:15:19.250 --> 00:15:21.610 to get answered. You know what done looks like. 00:15:21.610 --> 00:15:25.350 Yep. Right. But if it's build me mystery software 00:15:25.350 --> 00:15:28.759 or, you know. Prepare my coffee the way that 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:31.679 only I like but I'm not going to tell you then 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:33.980 we're forced to get into all these unnecessary 00:15:33.980 --> 00:15:37.000 gyrations Yeah, the other thing is like I don't 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:40.159 cross lines right on my on my own projects like 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:42.419 the bill the guy that I hired He's the one that 00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:44.419 calls me. Yeah, he's not the one that's on this 00:15:44.419 --> 00:15:47.940 on site all the time. Yep He's like I know that 00:15:47.940 --> 00:15:50.340 if there's a something that happened So like 00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:53.120 even tonight a guy put one of my lights up on 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:57.649 the wrong on the wrong outlet gotcha and so I'm 00:15:57.649 --> 00:15:59.610 going to go tell the guy on the site, say, hey, 00:15:59.690 --> 00:16:01.309 look, that's on the wrong one. You need to go 00:16:01.309 --> 00:16:07.090 and put it on the other outlet. And it's not 00:16:07.090 --> 00:16:10.509 like I naturally know that I don't need to call 00:16:10.509 --> 00:16:14.830 the guy that I hired to say, oh, man, your guy, 00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:20.250 I told you over the phone that I wasn't home. 00:16:20.610 --> 00:16:23.210 I explained exactly what my lights did. And you 00:16:23.210 --> 00:16:26.149 know what they did? They went and put up the 00:16:26.149 --> 00:16:28.950 wrong light on the wrong outlet, then I need 00:16:28.950 --> 00:16:31.549 you to fix it. Like, but that's kind of what 00:16:31.549 --> 00:16:34.990 we do at work sometimes. It totally is. That's 00:16:34.990 --> 00:16:38.950 a good example. And all this time talking and 00:16:38.950 --> 00:16:42.830 whining and just saying, unscrew it and put it 00:16:42.830 --> 00:16:45.190 in on the other outlet three feet over. Yeah. 00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:47.750 And you know what? My builder doesn't care. I 00:16:47.750 --> 00:16:50.669 bet. That I talked to the guy and said, you can 00:16:50.669 --> 00:16:53.509 solve your own problem by moving it from X to 00:16:53.509 --> 00:16:57.860 Y. And I'm good. Chris, I love that. That's very 00:16:57.860 --> 00:17:02.139 outcome mindset. Instead of getting all about 00:17:02.139 --> 00:17:04.740 the inputs and the procedures, it's just the 00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:07.200 outcome I want. Yeah. Well, the other thing that's 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:08.460 interesting, and we can kind of end it here, 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:12.759 is people love Racy Matrix. They love them. They 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.500 are so great. Yeah. Responsible, accountable, 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.940 consulted, informed, and nobody... They love 00:17:19.940 --> 00:17:23.779 them. They look so good on a PowerPoint. Oh, 00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:28.390 heck yeah. Are they defined? Do they work? Do 00:17:28.390 --> 00:17:32.670 they make executives happy? Oh, hell yeah. And 00:17:32.670 --> 00:17:36.349 then in practice. But do you have a choice to 00:17:36.349 --> 00:17:41.930 say, hey, am I consultant? Like, do I know? Do 00:17:41.930 --> 00:17:45.430 I know what I'm responsible for? Or is that nebulous? 00:17:45.609 --> 00:17:48.250 Oftentimes, it's really nebulous. Super unclear. 00:17:48.670 --> 00:17:51.009 Because again, there's a misunderstanding of 00:17:51.009 --> 00:17:53.289 who's actually, who did I buy this thing from? 00:17:53.349 --> 00:17:56.470 Who's the builder? I knew her the worker. And 00:17:56.470 --> 00:18:00.230 there's a lot of meetings and communication around 00:18:00.230 --> 00:18:02.410 clearing that up, regardless of whether you have 00:18:02.410 --> 00:18:06.210 Gracie or not. I rubbed that, Chris. To date, 00:18:06.430 --> 00:18:09.210 good conversation. I think, you know, when we're 00:18:09.210 --> 00:18:10.910 small and have our fingers all over everything 00:18:10.910 --> 00:18:13.829 and we just need the outcomes, we design processes 00:18:13.829 --> 00:18:18.009 to be nimble, and then left unchecked, they become 00:18:18.009 --> 00:18:21.430 something unto themselves with no purpose. Yeah, 00:18:21.430 --> 00:18:23.349 and I think practically just have some boundaries. 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:27.640 Yeah. That's not my decision to make. Someone 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:29.440 else above me needs to make that. I can make 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:31.119 that call. This is why I'm making that call. 00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:36.460 Yeah. I love it. Because I think we just know. 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:40.200 I just think we don't think about what our scope 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:42.859 or span of control is versus our span of influence. 00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:44.779 And if we just stayed in our lanes, we'd probably 00:18:44.779 --> 00:18:47.400 be a lot happier at work. Although, if you do 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.799 find a meme about enabling process, send it over, 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:54.180 man. Hey, Brad. Sounds good. Thanks, sir. Sorry 00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:54.440 about.