WEBVTT 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.540 Hey, what's up, Toby? We are on again for another 00:00:03.540 --> 00:00:07.419 week to this week's topic. Yeah. What's brewing? 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:12.619 Being sass fished. Sass fished. It's like cat 00:00:12.619 --> 00:00:15.919 being catfished. Oh, yeah, yeah. I know you're 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:19.899 in the dating pool. Yeah. For those, maybe I'm 00:00:19.899 --> 00:00:23.960 getting catfished a lot more than I know. For 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:28.289 those of us that are over 30. and may not be 00:00:28.289 --> 00:00:30.789 up to speed on the latest. Talk to me about catfish 00:00:30.789 --> 00:00:33.310 first, and then let's talk sass. Yeah, catfish 00:00:33.310 --> 00:00:35.869 is basically you get a picture of something, 00:00:36.210 --> 00:00:41.310 someone, and the image in real life, or IRL as 00:00:41.310 --> 00:00:45.670 the kids would say, does not match. There is 00:00:45.670 --> 00:00:49.109 a total mismatch. And the thing is, is I think 00:00:49.109 --> 00:00:54.520 this happens with... So you think that there's 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:58.299 groups of young Korean men also pretending to 00:00:58.299 --> 00:01:01.840 masquerade as attractive young women in the SaaS 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:07.260 software space? What I specifically see when 00:01:07.260 --> 00:01:10.439 you go to these people's websites, it is so pretty. 00:01:10.540 --> 00:01:14.400 It's so elegant. So elegant. It is so wonderful. 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:17.599 Yes. And the video that they have on how this 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:21.079 thing works. I mean, it is it can get you going. 00:01:22.299 --> 00:01:25.120 Yeah. Just like that. Just like that fake picture. 00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:28.000 That's right. And that's ultimately what it ends 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:33.019 up being like. We end up buying. These products 00:01:33.019 --> 00:01:35.780 and sometimes companies spend a lot of money 00:01:35.780 --> 00:01:39.799 like sales force. Yeah They might be the number 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:42.260 one sass fisher out there, dude. Yeah, they're 00:01:42.260 --> 00:01:45.140 they're creative team does a spectacular job 00:01:45.140 --> 00:01:48.819 if Oh if products work the way that the creative 00:01:48.819 --> 00:01:54.239 videos Unfolded I would love working with technology 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:59.000 Maybe it's as simple as if you have actual like 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:02.430 animated characters you're screwed That's the 00:02:02.430 --> 00:02:06.689 indicator. It's like on an app when it's like, 00:02:06.810 --> 00:02:10.009 I like older men and walks on the beach, but 00:02:10.009 --> 00:02:11.849 nights in watching Netflix, you're like, yeah, 00:02:11.849 --> 00:02:16.090 no, that's fake. That's really fake. Well, it's 00:02:16.090 --> 00:02:20.090 just interesting. And it's funny because it leaves 00:02:20.090 --> 00:02:25.530 so much up for interpretation. Yeah. So you literally 00:02:25.530 --> 00:02:28.750 can do nothing more than just get very excited. 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:31.580 about what you think this will do for your pain, 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.860 right? And the person sitting next to you, your 00:02:34.860 --> 00:02:37.580 colleagues, has a completely different pain that 00:02:37.580 --> 00:02:39.400 they're going through in their day -to -day, 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:42.419 but it's gonna solve their pain, too. And it 00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:44.800 might not solve anybody's pain. I love that, 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:47.060 because you're right. In the advertisements, 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:49.939 with the exception of prescription medication 00:02:49.939 --> 00:02:53.580 on television, where they have to disclose horrible... 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:56.759 Can you imagine if SAAS ads had to disclose all 00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.680 the horrible side effects? You know, may cause 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:05.900 ocular bleeding. It's right. The office. Side 00:03:05.900 --> 00:03:08.699 effects. Side effects include not getting your 00:03:08.699 --> 00:03:11.099 clients to use the system. Major frustration. 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:13.780 Very pissed off at the tool. That's right. They 00:03:13.780 --> 00:03:17.460 may stop your calls. Yeah. Use if you're allergic 00:03:17.460 --> 00:03:20.780 to accounting software. Maybe that's what we 00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:22.740 should be lobbying for, Chris. Maybe we found 00:03:22.740 --> 00:03:26.319 our purpose here. What is ours to put in the 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:29.020 world? No, you're right, because it is. It's 00:03:29.020 --> 00:03:31.300 just painting a picture of grasses greener. And 00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:34.719 that's what advertising is about. And so Saz 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:40.460 Fishing, they hook us, Hookwine and Sinker. Very 00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:42.740 effective advertising. They've really got more 00:03:42.740 --> 00:03:46.139 pain points dialed in. They understand. who their, 00:03:46.139 --> 00:03:49.060 you know, ideal customer profile is, their ICP. 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:53.060 Talk to me more about, because it sounds like 00:03:53.060 --> 00:03:55.479 there's a reason this is top of mind. What brought 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:57.539 this up in mind this week? Did you get help? 00:03:58.180 --> 00:04:00.800 Well, okay, so I went, my niece graduated, went 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:02.620 and hung out with my brother. He was talking 00:04:02.620 --> 00:04:06.240 about a SaaS product that he owns, that he uses, 00:04:06.539 --> 00:04:10.199 Smartsheets, right? He was going to see, he told 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:11.780 me, he's like, they're going to replace it with 00:04:11.780 --> 00:04:15.330 Rike. And I was like, what in the world? Cause 00:04:15.330 --> 00:04:19.449 it was driven by his IT IT company or the IT 00:04:19.449 --> 00:04:25.769 org. So they're cutting costs. And so they, they 00:04:25.769 --> 00:04:28.250 were hook line and sinker on Reich because it 00:04:28.250 --> 00:04:29.949 actually probably will solve a problem for someone 00:04:29.949 --> 00:04:33.329 somewhere. But my brother's like, look, it costs 00:04:33.329 --> 00:04:35.470 me a thousand dollars for my license, you know, 00:04:35.470 --> 00:04:38.529 a hundred dollars a month. But my, but my view 00:04:38.529 --> 00:04:41.629 license are free. And like, if I go to Reich, 00:04:41.810 --> 00:04:43.870 first of all, work cause it's different software. 00:04:44.660 --> 00:04:47.240 Second, like it's a different use case. It's 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:50.040 a workflow tool versus a spreadsheet -ish tool, 00:04:50.300 --> 00:04:52.139 right? Like it's just, it's different, different, 00:04:52.139 --> 00:04:54.579 different use case. He's like, if I was to go 00:04:54.579 --> 00:04:57.360 to Reich, I was like, they cost me $30 ,000 a 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.959 year because it's, you know, sure the annual 00:04:59.959 --> 00:05:03.620 cost for my, for my license is three six, but 00:05:03.620 --> 00:05:06.779 it's 36 for every user and a thousand people 00:05:06.779 --> 00:05:09.040 use this thing. And he's like, yeah, that got 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.079 to work. It's just, it's pretty funny. It's kind 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:12.980 of the, it's kind of the difference too. Like 00:05:12.980 --> 00:05:15.420 a mechanic might say it's a hell of a lot easier 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:19.240 to work on a little Cessna than the Boeing 737. 00:05:20.339 --> 00:05:23.180 But you go, yeah, but we have a thousand people 00:05:23.180 --> 00:05:25.040 to, well, you know, we have hundreds of people 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:27.019 to move around and the Cessna is not going to 00:05:27.019 --> 00:05:30.980 get us there. I love that. I love this. What 00:05:30.980 --> 00:05:33.220 an interesting contrast because you're right 00:05:33.220 --> 00:05:37.519 to one ear or to one stakeholder. It absolutely 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:39.579 resonates with their pain point. So often in 00:05:39.579 --> 00:05:43.480 enterprise, it is a cost containment thing. Yeah. 00:05:44.420 --> 00:05:47.180 Wow. And those are two radically different products. 00:05:47.699 --> 00:05:50.620 Oh, it's totally different. Totally different. 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:54.199 Yeah. And both are good, and both have their 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:57.779 place, and not going to work. So why do we keep 00:05:57.779 --> 00:06:01.379 falling for this? Yeah. I think number one, the 00:06:01.379 --> 00:06:07.310 demo mirage. Oh, brother. Yeah. He'd lean into 00:06:07.310 --> 00:06:12.230 that. Talked about the shifting heat waves over 00:06:12.230 --> 00:06:16.430 the sand here, the demo. I mean, you can demo 00:06:16.430 --> 00:06:19.310 stuff to look really, really good. One, because 00:06:19.310 --> 00:06:23.470 you're not grounded in that tool. Right. And 00:06:23.470 --> 00:06:25.930 so whatever they show you, again, you let your 00:06:25.930 --> 00:06:28.550 mind go into this fantasy world of it's going 00:06:28.550 --> 00:06:30.930 to be amazing if all the things could do the 00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:34.410 things. And it doesn't work that way. No. Because 00:06:34.410 --> 00:06:36.050 you got to get you got to get people to adopt. 00:06:36.110 --> 00:06:40.569 Yep, and I do think that when you are looking 00:06:40.569 --> 00:06:45.769 to change a piece of software You are actually 00:06:45.769 --> 00:06:49.810 looking at pain in the wrong area you need Say 00:06:49.810 --> 00:06:53.430 more about and and what I mean by that is your 00:06:53.430 --> 00:06:57.290 pain is You're not getting notified or part of 00:06:57.290 --> 00:06:59.730 the business is broken down because a bad process 00:06:59.730 --> 00:07:03.269 And you're not because your process doesn't serve 00:07:03.269 --> 00:07:06.899 you and it basically hurts you, you're looking 00:07:06.899 --> 00:07:10.319 to fix something that's not really a problem, 00:07:10.339 --> 00:07:13.519 or wouldn't be a problem if your workflows were 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:16.279 clean. It's the same problem you're going to 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:20.360 take over to the new product. Oh, 100%. And basically 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:23.319 just give yourself a year, probably less, because 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:25.480 you don't have adoption. Totally. It's like my 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:27.579 house is cluttered, but if I buy a new house 00:07:27.579 --> 00:07:30.560 of the same size, yeah, then you're going to 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:34.519 take all your clutter. 100%. That's great. The 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:38.899 other, the other, the other reason why, uh, why 00:07:38.899 --> 00:07:43.459 we get baffled by this is executive FOMO. Oh 00:07:43.459 --> 00:07:47.000 Lord. And what I mean, what I mean by that is 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.120 if you go to your executive and you say, you 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:52.540 know what, I'm going to go do a transformational, 00:07:52.899 --> 00:07:56.040 some transformational work in the industry. And 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:57.980 I'm going to give you two options here, Toby, 00:07:58.019 --> 00:08:01.759 you get to pick. Number one. We are going to 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:05.079 transform our Salesforce instance that we already 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:07.439 have and it's going to take two years and we 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:10.300 just need a hundred grand. Yeah. That's your 00:08:10.300 --> 00:08:14.480 option of one. Option two is we're going to move 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:20.319 to Ryke and Smartsheets because my golfing buddy, 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:25.800 he could do some things. It's going to be transformative. 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:28.879 Oh yeah. Which one you go with? Golfing buddy 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:33.759 for the win. Option number two. Oh, Chris. I 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:35.879 don't know. I may have brought this up because 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:37.779 it's one of my favorite stories. I had a client, 00:08:37.899 --> 00:08:39.879 though, that came back from Christmas break and 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.559 it was the senior executive. And he said, caught 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:46.820 up with a friend over the holidays skiing. We're 00:08:46.820 --> 00:08:52.299 going to implement S .A .P. Caught up with a 00:08:52.299 --> 00:08:55.279 buddy over the holidays skiing. We're buying 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:59.580 S .A .P. They had about a five hundred person 00:09:00.649 --> 00:09:03.110 industrial manufacturing. They did chemical manufacturing. 00:09:03.809 --> 00:09:07.149 Their actual entire finance team was like five 00:09:07.149 --> 00:09:13.950 people. I mean, SAP for the win. Yeah. Hey, if 00:09:13.950 --> 00:09:16.789 it's good on a ski hill, it's it's good on the 00:09:16.789 --> 00:09:22.409 shop floor, baby. So, yeah, FOMO, baby. All right. 00:09:22.570 --> 00:09:25.590 OK, let's talk about red flags. Yeah, what else? 00:09:25.789 --> 00:09:29.320 What else? Red flags. Oh, hit it. Ways that you 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:33.000 know that you're being sass -fished. It's a no 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:37.059 -code, low -code, pro -code, something -code, 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.820 maybe -code solution. It has anything but code. 00:09:44.539 --> 00:09:46.840 I've messed around with quite a few little low 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.480 -code, no -code things, and I stretch them pretty 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:52.779 far, and I'm like, all you are is a form in a 00:09:52.779 --> 00:09:56.279 database. Like, it's fascinating. And, you know, 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:59.480 they're going to get better. You got people have 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:02.259 to buy but can you imagine if Microsoft would 00:10:02.259 --> 00:10:06.059 have taken their access product from 97 and Just 00:10:06.059 --> 00:10:10.419 continued to make it more elegant Like micro 00:10:10.419 --> 00:10:13.000 to your point it was forming a database and then 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.580 it had reports on the other side Yeah, that's 00:10:15.580 --> 00:10:18.279 all so much of this is but it's prettier faces 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:21.259 You know, this is where and I'm gonna bump in 00:10:21.259 --> 00:10:23.399 my ignorance fast But this is where Ruby and 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:26.299 JavaScript and some of these much more visually 00:10:26.299 --> 00:10:30.629 appealing languages do a tremendous job when 00:10:30.629 --> 00:10:32.750 the basic functionality is the same thing we 00:10:32.750 --> 00:10:37.250 had 20 years ago, 30 years ago. Another red flag 00:10:37.250 --> 00:10:42.509 you see. Another red flag. If you go to their 00:10:42.509 --> 00:10:46.429 website and they show you a video or a picture 00:10:46.429 --> 00:10:51.350 of their interface, just ask for that interface. 00:10:53.690 --> 00:10:56.169 Do a little show -and -tell. Say, I would like 00:10:56.169 --> 00:10:59.590 to see where that's at. I almost guarantee you 00:10:59.590 --> 00:11:02.470 with about 80 % confidence that most of them 00:11:02.470 --> 00:11:06.669 are made up on Figma and do not exist in reality 00:11:06.669 --> 00:11:10.110 in the UI. Our graphic designer has imagined 00:11:10.110 --> 00:11:14.809 a world. I agree. I agree. That's great. Next 00:11:14.809 --> 00:11:16.990 red flag. It will solve all the problems in the 00:11:16.990 --> 00:11:20.659 world. Every single one. One for you and one 00:11:20.659 --> 00:11:23.700 for you and one for you everybody and you get 00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:27.139 you get a you get a solution and you get a solution 00:11:27.139 --> 00:11:33.139 Everybody gets a solution Yeah, maybe maybe that's 00:11:33.139 --> 00:11:38.039 not 100 % accurate. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is this 00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:43.480 is the other thing When the add -ons or the extra 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:48.570 items get very expensive I agree And this is 00:11:48.570 --> 00:11:50.429 ultimately my problem with Salesforce. I actually 00:11:50.429 --> 00:11:52.549 love Salesforce. I think Salesforce is fantastic. 00:11:52.590 --> 00:11:56.490 And if you have a team that does Salesforce and 00:11:56.490 --> 00:11:59.190 does Salesforce well, it will serve you very 00:11:59.190 --> 00:12:03.350 well. It will be very clicky. And it will feel 00:12:03.350 --> 00:12:05.330 like it's taking a lot of time, but the way that 00:12:05.330 --> 00:12:08.230 they collect everything is brilliant. But if 00:12:08.230 --> 00:12:10.149 you want to have a good Salesforce instance, 00:12:10.950 --> 00:12:13.690 you better be paying. You're going to have to 00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:17.269 drop at least 250 grand on labor to support it. 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:20.899 Chris, I think that this is, you know, this is 00:12:20.899 --> 00:12:23.179 when we start to talk about what makes a product 00:12:23.179 --> 00:12:27.159 enterprise grade. Yeah. And I was joking about 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:29.279 SAP earlier, because that's not how you should 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.100 be selecting multimillion dollar systems. But 00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:34.740 whether it's a sales force or whether it is an 00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:37.779 SAP or whether it's a tableau, there's some really 00:12:37.779 --> 00:12:42.179 spectacular tools. But it requires somebody to 00:12:42.179 --> 00:12:44.620 invest not just days or weeks, but literally 00:12:44.620 --> 00:12:49.779 years. to understand the nuances, right? The 00:12:49.779 --> 00:12:53.200 richness that these tools promise also requires 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:55.720 a richness of education for somebody to be able 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.980 to unlock it. And beyond that, getting to elegant 00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:03.220 is much more difficult. To your point, Salesforce, 00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:05.379 I've yet to use an instance that doesn't feel 00:13:05.379 --> 00:13:11.210 really chopped up because it's not easy. to create 00:13:11.210 --> 00:13:14.210 elegant interfaces. It's not easy to create intelligent 00:13:14.210 --> 00:13:16.809 forms that are asking data in the right time 00:13:16.809 --> 00:13:22.049 at the right way. Salesforce is built to scale, 00:13:22.070 --> 00:13:25.570 but essentially it's a fancy database. I mean, 00:13:25.570 --> 00:13:29.450 it really is. And again, it's fabulous, but you 00:13:29.450 --> 00:13:31.190 could screw it up with the best of them. Totally. 00:13:31.830 --> 00:13:35.169 Well, so there's got to be it. So aside from 00:13:35.169 --> 00:13:37.509 being embarrassed and getting egg on your face, 00:13:37.610 --> 00:13:40.879 just like getting catfished. discovering that 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:43.860 you're dating a middle -aged man that you've 00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:47.740 been flirting with online. What's the impact 00:13:47.740 --> 00:13:50.000 of, you know, there's a reason why SAS fishing 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.539 is not good for the gullible. What's the impact? 00:13:55.100 --> 00:13:58.139 I think some of it just comes down to the wasting 00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:04.320 time. Yeah, yeah. Like the grass is always greener, 00:14:04.460 --> 00:14:09.490 spending a lot of time in just, you know. instead 00:14:09.490 --> 00:14:13.649 of fertilizing your own yard with manure, which 00:14:13.649 --> 00:14:17.090 is a great fertilizer, you're looking across 00:14:17.090 --> 00:14:19.129 to like, oh man, they've got such nice green 00:14:19.129 --> 00:14:21.629 grass over there. Like it's just that waste of 00:14:21.629 --> 00:14:25.409 time. And then just the stress of trying to get 00:14:25.409 --> 00:14:29.830 anybody to adopt anything is so hard. Change 00:14:29.830 --> 00:14:34.220 is hard. Yeah. I've yet to encounter an organization 00:14:34.220 --> 00:14:37.000 that doesn't have two or three seismic things 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.820 going on at once. Good economy, bad economy, 00:14:42.139 --> 00:14:45.000 flat economy. We have people that are coming 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:48.200 and going. We're losing key actors. We're being 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.120 forced to change out software products or change 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:56.480 our pricing or work with new customers. We undervalue 00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.659 how painful change can be. So yeah, I think that 00:14:59.659 --> 00:15:01.279 that's like the next thing, you know, the next 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:04.340 two when it's like the cost of doing it is just 00:15:04.340 --> 00:15:07.419 the cost of the team. Yeah. Because you're taking 00:15:07.419 --> 00:15:10.840 them down to run a parallel, right? You know, 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.860 you're you're you're if you do it right and you 00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:18.779 have buy in and you have authority to actually 00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:22.279 implement something new, you can tear down a 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.720 bunch of process that and it doesn't matter what 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:29.529 you switch to. Yeah. You could switch from PowerPoint 00:15:29.529 --> 00:15:34.549 to Excel, and not that you would, although maybe 00:15:34.549 --> 00:15:39.730 PowerPoint to Word. You could switch from PowerPoint 00:15:39.730 --> 00:15:43.090 to Word, and just in doing that one thing, you 00:15:43.090 --> 00:15:46.090 could unstrip some of these legacy things that 00:15:46.090 --> 00:15:49.269 just aren't a thing anymore. Chris, I think that 00:15:49.269 --> 00:15:51.049 that's a really good, and we talk a lot about 00:15:51.049 --> 00:15:54.429 this process that works. Oftentimes, it's hard 00:15:54.429 --> 00:15:59.110 to argue for a budget. to process. It's not going 00:15:59.110 --> 00:16:02.230 to be sexy. Even your example earlier, use the 00:16:02.230 --> 00:16:07.450 tool we have, invest some cycles to really remove 00:16:07.450 --> 00:16:11.970 all of the fat and unused tissue. Give us a new 00:16:11.970 --> 00:16:15.870 name. I think, truthfully, I think that's why 00:16:15.870 --> 00:16:19.370 sometimes people name their systems not by the 00:16:19.370 --> 00:16:23.049 branded provider. But they call it something 00:16:23.049 --> 00:16:25.529 else internally because it does give them a little 00:16:25.529 --> 00:16:29.889 bit more flexibility, you know. So. All right. 00:16:29.909 --> 00:16:32.070 So how do we prevent it? Yeah. Talk to me about 00:16:32.070 --> 00:16:35.610 thoughts on prevention because we all get a sandbox. 00:16:35.809 --> 00:16:39.950 Oh, good. Get a demo. Get a PST. Don't show me 00:16:39.950 --> 00:16:42.450 your happy path. Perfectly curated landscape. 00:16:42.529 --> 00:16:46.710 No. Let me get messy. Some of it's insurance. 00:16:47.250 --> 00:16:51.799 Spend a little upfront to get a PST. Especially 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:53.899 especially if you're gonna drop hundreds of thousands 00:16:53.899 --> 00:16:56.820 200 ,000 a year. Yeah, like spend some money 00:16:56.820 --> 00:16:59.879 Yeah, give it a go right put a team on it find 00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:02.019 someone's finding her find some early adopters. 00:17:02.019 --> 00:17:07.700 Yeah, you know get real users That are that are 00:17:07.700 --> 00:17:09.839 really different that weren't on the ski trip 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:14.900 or weren't at the gulp Okay, miss the golf outing 00:17:14.900 --> 00:17:16.799 but get people that are different that have different 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.400 opinions that are both early adopters, because 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:21.740 you're going to find really good solutions when 00:17:21.740 --> 00:17:23.839 you find one that works for both of them. It's 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.759 a good call. And then, you know, you and I talk 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:28.940 about this a lot, but it's people, process, and 00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:34.500 tools, and really manage it in that way. Yeah. 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:40.339 And then when they, you know, this one's actually 00:17:40.339 --> 00:17:44.180 really good, but just watch out for integrations. 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:48.940 Yeah. because everybody wants automation and 00:17:48.940 --> 00:17:51.480 they don't understand how difficult they are. 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:55.119 I remember when APIs and integrations first showed 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.680 up and Zapier sounded like this really magical, 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:05.319 you know, Lego like click a block. And what was 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:07.500 never explained was that that was just the basic 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.980 handshake to say, yes, the front door is here 00:18:09.980 --> 00:18:11.700 and the other front door is there. It doesn't 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:15.420 move anything. You know, it's a shallow experience. 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:18.500 And I think we In the last 10 to 15 years, we've 00:18:18.500 --> 00:18:22.180 really come to understand that integrations are 00:18:22.180 --> 00:18:27.519 deep and, uh, and take time to invest in. Yeah. 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.400 And you're also, you're also beholden beholden 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:34.039 to whatever those applications are. Yeah. You're 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.819 like, Hey, yeah. You, you were limited to what 00:18:37.819 --> 00:18:42.779 the system will allow you to do. Yeah. Even worse 00:18:42.779 --> 00:18:45.519 you're you're limited to what your people are 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:47.140 actually going to do and that's actually where 00:18:47.140 --> 00:18:49.460 I think they break down the most better Yeah, 00:18:49.460 --> 00:18:53.160 the human factor is variable, right? Oh 100 % 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.619 No, Chris. This is a good. I love I love the 00:18:55.619 --> 00:18:59.859 how to defend yourself That's a great list Well, 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:01.859 I think we did it again. We made it through another 00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:04.759 one just a smidge over five minutes, but I think 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:08.160 it's worth it Yeah, careful sass fishing out 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:10.559 there on the dating site. No. Yeah if you're 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:13.539 gonna If you're gonna go status fishing, get 00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:16.559 a good lure. That's right. That's right. Take 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:19.299 some preventative measures. Hey, as always, I 00:19:19.299 --> 00:19:22.079 appreciate our conversation. Catch you next week. 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:23.440 See ya. Bye.