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Hey Chris, glad to be back.

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Hey, what's up?

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We made it.

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We made it to the next one.

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The next one, which is good job team.

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Processed at number seven.

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Oh my god.

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I'm sure by now we have ones of listeners.

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Ones.

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Yeah.

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Not 10s, but ones.

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One of our, one of our imaginary fans up in the, up in the lost territories of northern

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Canada was thinking about listening and asking about this.

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We're at about so many post COVID meetings and ironically that question touches on something

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that I've been stewing on since our lost, our lost pet, the lost podcast.

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No, since our last podcast, which was, uh, what the hell's going on with all these meetings,

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Chris?

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Yeah.

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Last time you were saying post COVID, I just feel like I'm death by a thousand cuts with

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all these meetings.

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And that feels really related to process that can you draw a little bit of a crosswalk between

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healthy process and communications?

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How should communications look in a healthy process versus a burdened process, a poorly

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managed process?

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Like how, how did these pieces play out?

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That's interesting, right?

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Cause meetings are killing many people.

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And I, and what's funny is I was telling someone today, uh, my brother, my brother said, you

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know, bad process kills good people.

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I have no idea where he got that quote, but that's probably why I've, why I've kicked

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off this podcast is because that just didn't never left.

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And you know what, you know what you get a lot after meetings and I love that meeting

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that was a good, oh, wait a sec.

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That doesn't happen.

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That's right.

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Said no one ever, ever maybe.

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Um, I think it's interesting because COVID got us in a habit of connection over meetings

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and team building is definitely something that is very important to know in that, in

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a work environment.

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But there's also other things that need to be done.

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And so besides sitting around and petting our cats and coming off on Zoom, what else

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possibly be required to run an effective business besides?

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I think it's interesting, right?

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Like how would we have done this?

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How would this have gotten done?

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Yeah.

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30 years ago.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Like maybe 80s or well, or just, just even like meetings pre-internet.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Like, like there would have, there would have been a level of, of expectation that went

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into it.

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And I think, I think it's very hard to hold people to the, I think it's very, very hard.

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I, and I'm, you know, I'm saying this for the first time, but I think it's really hard

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to hold people accountable to something that's so easy to interrupt someone's day.

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And so because the ease of interruption is so simple, you don't have to put that much

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thought into it.

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And because you don't have to put that much thought into it, then, then it undervalues

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what you're actually doing.

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So even the smallest squirrely behavior in a team is going to disrupt the entire group

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because that's all it takes.

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One text message, one Slack, one meeting thrown up calendars.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, remember, remember when the COVID, well, I don't know if you remember, but I

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remember one of the fun games that you would play was, was send a text message to your

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buddy in a meeting and just watch their face and then it became this fun game of like,

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you know, can I get them to lose their mind?

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I remember whiskey out of their coffee cup.

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I'm in a meeting doing a training.

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Like I'm leading the training.

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There's like 20 people, 20 people.

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My office isn't in my front room.

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I'm being really loud and obnoxious.

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And my daughter comes up right beside me, probably where she could like, she can barely

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be seen in the camera.

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And she's like, can you be quieter?

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It's so bad.

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Who's so terrible?

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Who's so terrible?

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And I think, I think some of it is like, I think some of it is like, if, if we had a

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typewriter.

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Yeah.

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And that was the only way to communicate and you didn't have whiteout.

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Yeah.

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And the barrier to entry met the value of what you got was more valuable.

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Like even today, when I talked to my dad, who literally lives like an hour away, but

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growing up, it would have been a long distance call.

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Like I feel like his goal on the phone is to get off the call.

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Amen.

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That is because he's, because he's, because he's of that generation, right?

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Because it was that, that communication was expensive.

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Right.

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And now it's not.

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And so you've got our teenagers rolling around looking at their camera.

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You know, they're, they're in the, in the store, FaceTiming people.

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And you're like, what is this?

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And you and I grew up with, well, you accept a collect call from, everything's okay.

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I'll talk to you soon.

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Yeah.

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Our kids don't know that world, you know?

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No, no.

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What's, what's interesting though, what you, what you touch on there with this idea of

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the simplicity of communication, the simplicity of convening a meeting, regardless of where

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people are at geographically.

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Yeah.

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That's, I think that there can be too much engagement because it's not about the quality.

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I think we are, we're, we're latching onto quantity.

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And so more meetings surely suggest that we're doing more.

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Instead, I think oftentimes we're swirling.

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And now when I think about AI coming in, the ability of not just typing out a memo without

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whiteout, not just typing an electronic typewriter, but now having machines creating messaging

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that may or may not matter.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's a, that's going to be a slippery one to manage.

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So well, the other thing was interesting is when you started being able to record meetings,

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gosh.

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Yeah.

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I was like, can you record this?

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But do that?

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Does it ever get listened?

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Does it ever get listened?

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Does it ever get watched?

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Like, like if we, I just wonder like, just in general, like, and I, you know, I have

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no data here, but like, I just wonder if, if whatever we did had to be transferred to

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someone else.

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Yeah.

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And like, whether that's a meeting or whether that's an email and it had to be consumed.

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Like there was basically like this checkoff process.

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Yeah.

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Like I'm going to send data.

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It has to be received and read and like confirmed.

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Right.

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Like, first of all, people would lose their minds.

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There's no way people would agree to that.

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Yeah.

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But would that actually force us to focus on the most important work?

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And you know, that, that whole saying around smooth is, slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

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Right.

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Like, I think we would get there because I don't think we all, we all are, I don't know,

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lazy is probably too strong of a word, but like, I feel like a lot of times we just want

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the technology or the people to actually solve the problems.

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And you're like, the simple problems are gone.

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People.

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That's a hundred percent.

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You know, it's, it struck me just then was the idea that we are now capturing and storing

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all of the con trails of interaction.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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And, and that has a literal financial cost.

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Yeah.

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But so does the fact that just because you're missing the meeting doesn't mean that you

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don't get to opine.

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You know, it wasn't that long ago where if you're not present, then you don't have a

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say in it and say, you better be pretty senior.

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And today anybody can say, record it for me and I'll weigh in a little bit later.

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So change shifts the burden, you know?

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And so in the world of process that I think one of those ways we do see it is decision

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making.

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It now takes longer to get to the decisions we need.

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Well, and it takes longer and there's what's the home for the decision.

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Well, don't you put it in email?

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Sharefluence?

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Sharepoint, Sharefluence.

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I was talking to someone yesterday.

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I was like, the great thing about Sharepoint is it's hard to share and I don't get the

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point.

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Like, it's like, I mean, it is, it's like, the thing is a Sharepoint could be wonderful,

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but it's like most general tools.

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Yeah.

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And it could just turn into an absolute mess because we don't, you know, one of the other

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topics that I wanted to talk about at some point, which we probably well is, is your

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work homeless?

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Right?

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Like I go home and I know where my kitchen is.

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I know, like I know where my stuff is, but I go to work and my, my, my work and where

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it lives, it does resemble it.

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Nothing has a home or at least it feels that way.

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Or at least it feels like I'm spending an exorbitant amount of time looking for information.

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And so what's, what's interesting is like, we, I think I wrote a study where it's like

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basically like 15 to 20% of your time is spent looking for stuff.

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Yeah.

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I'll tell you my number one repository for important things.

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You want to guess?

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Word.

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Outlook.

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Outlook.

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Oh yeah.

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Oh gosh.

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Yeah.

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Outlook.

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Could you imagine if Outlook didn't have search?

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Oh my gosh.

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Just lose your mind.

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I just saw an article recently and it said, if you don't have time to protect your passwords

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and that itself has a pregnant problem in that statement.

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Yes.

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If you don't have time, protect the passwords on your bank, your phone, your email.

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And I thought, boy, any one of those could really screw things up in a good and proper

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way.

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Yeah.

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So we've done the last 10 minutes.

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Boom.

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Bonus round.

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Successful again.

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I think we're going to have to hang on.

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We're going to call it, we're going to call it the 10 to 20 minute podcast.

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Well, if you walk to the office is five minutes, take a lap.

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Welcome.

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You know, enjoy the extra steps.

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We're trying to improve cardiovascular health.

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I love it.

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All right, man.

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Thanks for your time.

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Thank you.

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Peace out.