Welcome to the Meteorology Matters podcast. We
are going to be taking a look today at some pretty
substantial shifts happening within the US scientific
and medical communities, especially in these
first few months after President Trump's inauguration.
Yeah, yeah. And you've shared some interesting
material with us that really suggests that there's
a lot of change happening, potentially even a
reshaping of American research and health care.
So let's really unpack this and see what this
means for you and the broader scientific and
healthcare world. Yeah, it's really quite remarkable
the speed and the scope of the changes that we're
seeing. You know, it's not just like isolated
incidents. It really does seem to suggest a broader
kind of reconsideration that's happening within
these really, really important professions. Yeah,
absolutely. So a lot of what we'll be talking
about today comes from a survey of over 1 ,600
scientists, and the results are pretty fascinating.
And it seems like a substantial number of these
scientists are seriously thinking about leaving
the United States. So let's kind of understand
the reasons for that, or where they might be
thinking about going instead. Yeah, yeah. You
know, when we kind of zoom out and think about
the big picture, this potential departure of...
such a large part of our scientific talent pool,
you know, it naturally raises some pretty big
questions about the future strength of U .S.
research and our standing on the global stage.
Absolutely. And it's not just about research
scientists. There are also indications of a noticeable
increase in U .S. medical professionals expressing
interest in maybe moving to Canada. And Canadian
medical licensing bodies and recruitment firms
are observing this trend. So let's explore some
of the potential motivations behind that as well.
Yeah, it seems like all these factors are kind
of converging. The scientists may be considering
leaving, the medical professionals may be looking
north. It really hints at a connected set of
concerns that we should pay attention to. Yeah,
OK, so let's start by looking at this survey
of scientists and what they're considering. And
what it revealed was that more than 75 % of US
scientists who responded are actually considering
leaving the country. That's a pretty... It's
a number. Yeah, a huge proportion, wouldn't you
say? I think so, and the fact that Europe and
Canada are being mentioned a lot as possible
destinations, that probably isn't just by chance.
It's probably because... there are already a
lot of research connections. I mean, there's
a level of cultural familiarity, maybe even like
a sense that they share similar values when it
comes to science. Right. What's really striking
to me is the impact on those who are really just
getting started in their research careers. And
the survey really points to a very high percentage
of post -graduate researchers and PhD students
thinking about leaving. And it was a very large
majority in both of those groups. And I mean,
that's a really significant. potential loss for
the future of science in the US. You're absolutely
right. That's a crucial point to highlight. Early
career researchers, they're often the ones who
are bringing fresh ideas, new perspectives, and
really driving future breakthroughs. So if they
leave, it could have long lasting effects on
the whole system of scientific innovation in
the US. And what's interesting is that the survey
results, directly link this thinking about leaving
to the disruptions that have happened since President
Trump's administration came in. So it suggests
that there's a feeling of instability, or like
a sense of less opportunity here. Right, so based
on what we know, what are the main factors driving
this potential outward flow? Well, a big factor
seems to be the cuts to research funding. You
know, it seems like the current administration
has really cut back on research budgets and even
stopped some... federally funded science programs
as part of this broader cost -cutting effort.
And when that happens, scientists at all levels,
they're forced to reevaluate their career paths.
Right. And we also learned about these pretty
widespread dismissals of federal employees, including
scientists, which were then followed by rehiring
members of a court ruling. So that kind of back
and forth must create a lot of uncertainty for
the scientific community. That's a lot of instability.
And when you add in the possibility of more job
cuts. Reports of stricter immigration enforcement
and anxieties about academic freedom, you know,
it really does paint a picture of a research
landscape that's under a lot of pressure and
a lot of unpredictability. Yeah. And you can
imagine how concerning that must be for international
researchers in particular who might already be
feeling a little insecure about their position.
Right. And we have one specific example of a
graduate student in plant genomics and agriculture
who had their research funding and stipend totally
cut off because of the halting of support for
the US Agency for International Development.
And this really, really made them much more sure
about their decision. to pursue post -doc work
overseas. It's almost like that personal story
brings those wider policy changes into focus.
Their field, which is the study of global food
systems, it's now seen as less of a priority
in the US. So they're actively looking at opportunities
in Europe, Australia, Mexico. They're looking
for places where... their expertise is actually
valued and where they'll be supported. Yeah,
and like we talked about, early career scientists
are really feeling vulnerable. They're particularly
during this time. And it's such a critical point
in their professional development. Right, exactly.
And these really fast shifts are disrupting all
of their carefully made plans. Yeah, they often
have... less secure funding and fewer professional
connections, which makes them much more susceptible
to the immediate effects of funding cuts and
all these institutional changes. And we have
this other example of the physician scientist
at a big US university who had their research
grant terminated, and now they and their scientist
spouse are looking for jobs in Canada. You know,
it just really highlights that even well -established
researchers are feeling the effects of all of
this. Yeah, so it's kind of a disturbing picture
of what's happening in the research world right
now. And we also got information about a situation
where a researcher in Europe got a request from
two colleagues in the US to actually withdraw
a scientific paper. Wow, that's that's pretty
unusual. It sounds very strange. Yeah. Yeah,
it's really interesting. You know the reason
that they gave for wanting to withdraw the paper
was fear. They were afraid of being deported
or losing their jobs if their names appeared
on a paper about evolution. And one of the co
-authors had already lost their job because a
government grant got canceled. They were legally
in the US. But all of this uncertainty created
by... by the current situation led to this really,
really unusual action. Yeah, and it's important
to point out that as far as we know... research
on evolution hasn't been specifically targeted
by any policies. But this incident really does
show that there's a lot of anxiety. And there's
a potential for self -censorship within the scientific
community. Yeah, it's not just about research
areas that might be actually banned. It's more
that this chilling effect seems to be spreading
to fields that could be seen as maybe controversial
or politically sensitive. and that can really
stifle the free exchange of scientific ideas,
which is so, so important for making progress.
And then there's the fact that NOAA has reportedly
terminated a really substantial amount of grant
funding across a whole bunch of research areas.
And that just really emphasizes how broad these
financial impacts are. Right. And it's having
this ripple effect because there are reports
of layoffs at health and science agencies and
universities are cutting back on the number of
graduate student positions they're offering.
Yeah. So it's disrupting the whole pipeline.
And so this is potentially disrupting the whole
future pipeline. Exactly. Of scientific talent.
Yeah. It's really worrisome. Yeah. You know,
the fact that this European researcher felt like
it was just too dangerous for their American
colleagues to even publish the paper. It really
speaks volumes about the perceived threats to
academic freedom and professional security and
the researcher who was supposed to edit the paper,
they expressed... real heartbreak over this.
They talked about how it's damaging the normal
way that science is supposed to work. Yeah, and
even the head of NOAA, while they acknowledged
how important it is to have open inquiry in science,
reportedly they themselves had claimed to experience
censorship. Yeah, it's really a... It's a really
complex situation. Yeah, it's complex and it's
kind of contradictory. And the paper that they
were talking about, it was focusing on evolution
in both living and non -living... and how it
relates to the search for life beyond Earth.
And I mean, that just shows how fundamental this
research is. And how it could be affected by
this climate of fear and uncertainty. And it
seems like these concerns are being felt even
beyond US borders. There's a report that the
French National Center for Scientific Research
has advised its scientists who are traveling
to the US to be aware that their electronic devices
might be scrutinized and that things they say
in critical conversations could be used against
them. Yeah, that's a pretty significant development.
You know, it suggests that international scientific
organizations are starting to see the U .S. research
environment as potentially risky. And that's
why they're giving these specific warnings to
their researchers. Right. And there was that
incident where a French researcher was initially
denied entry. Yeah. And even though there's an
official explanation that probably contributed
to this feeling of uneasiness. Absolutely. And
we're even hearing that scientists in other countries
are hesitant to even travel through the U .S.
Right. You know, even just for layovers. Yeah.
That level of concern could really hinder international
scientific collaboration. Yeah, absolutely. And
we have this example of a molecular biology PhD
student in Canada who no longer sees the U .S.
as a viable option for their career because of
the funding situation. It's another example of
this potential brain drain. Right. And there
is this really stark comment from an investigator
at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute. Right.
And they talked about this fast, broad, unprecedented
dismantling of parts of science. It's a really
powerful statement, and it really highlights
the seriousness of the situation, and the potential
for a major loss of international expertise.
Right, and then we have a researcher in Connecticut,
and they pointed out that their specific field
isn't under immediate threat, like some other
fields are, such as the climate change research,
but they still see... what they call a dangerous
trajectory, because they're worried that the
government might start deciding what's acceptable
for scientists to research. You know, that raises
some really fundamental questions about the independence
of scientific investigation. Yeah, so let's shift
our focus now to the medical field, where we're
seeing this really notable increase in interest
from US doctors in potentially moving to Canada.
And the numbers that we're seeing are Quite surprising.
Yeah, I mean, the Medical Council of Canada reported
this dramatic increase. It was over 580 % in
US medical graduates setting up accounts on their
physician application portal. And this was just
between October of last year and March of this
year, compared to the same period the year before.
I mean, that's a massive jump in a really short
amount of time. Yeah, and their support services
have also seen a big increase in inquiries from
the US. Yeah, it's about a third more. in the
past couple of months. So it really does suggest
that it's not just people browsing. People are
actively looking for information about how to
make this move. And this is also backed up by
reports from health care recruitment firms in
Canada. One firm in Nova Scotia said that almost
every doctor they're talking to right now is
from the US. And that includes both American
citizens and Canadians who went to medical school
in the US and are now thinking about coming back.
Yeah, so what are the main reasons that these
medical professionals are giving for wanting
to go north? Concerns about the political climate
and the changes in health care, especially related
to women's health, are really big factors. The
information specifically talks about worries
about access to abortion services and... gender
-affirming care in some US states. So that seems
to be driving a lot of this dissatisfaction.
So it sounds like it's not just about their professional
lives. It's also about what they want for their
families. Exactly. You know, a lot of these doctors
are saying they're worried about raising their
families in what they see as a safer and more
supportive society. So it seems like they're
thinking about their overall quality of life,
not just their medical careers. And it sounds
like many of them. of them. Yeah, a lot of them
already taking concrete steps to move. Yeah,
they're not just exploring the idea. They're
actively taking steps to relocate and to get
their medical credentials recognized in Canada.
Right. And, you know, that that really shows
their commitment to making this move. Exactly.
The fact that recruitment firms are seeing doctors
who are already in the process of relocating
it. it indicates a real seriousness about this.
And Canadian provinces are also actively trying
to... take advantage of this increased interest.
You know, provinces like Manitoba and British
Columbia are specifically recruiting U .S. physicians,
and they're highlighting these more streamlined
processes for getting licensed. Right, and British
Columbia is even trying to speed up the recognition
of credentials for U .S. trained doctors who
have certification from the American Board of
Medical Specialties. You know, that seems to
be a direct strategy to attract doctors who are
thinking about leaving the U .S. trying to reduce
the bureaucratic obstacles and the British Columbia
Minister of Health even said something about
it being an unprecedented opportunity because
of the uncertainty and chaos happening south
of our border. So it really does show you how
proactive some Canadian provinces are being.
They're directly appealing to US healthcare professionals
who might be looking for a more stable and more
politically aligned environment for their careers.
So as we've been talking about, the information
you've shared really does point to a potentially
really big shift happening in the US scientific
and medical community, especially in these early
months of this new administration. And it seems
like this combination of things, like the cuts
to research funding, the concerns about academic
freedom and this perceived unfavorable political
climate. motivating a lot of talented people
to look for opportunities elsewhere. That situation
with the withdrawn research paper, even though
it wasn't directly about funding, it really illustrates
the anxieties and the uncertainties that are
just permeating the research environment. I mean,
the fact that scientists are feeling like they
have to avoid certain research topics out of
fear. It's a really troubling development for
the advancement of knowledge. And then you have
this increased interest from US medical doctors
in going to Canada. Yeah, and it really underscores
this trend of... skilled professionals looking
for more stable places and maybe even more politically
compatible environments, not just for their careers,
but for their families as well. You know, this
whole situation raises some big questions for
you, for all of us. And for the future of science
and medicine in the United States, what are the
long -term consequences of this potential loss
of expertise? How could it affect innovation?
How could it affect health care? And how could
it affect the... the United States standing in
the global scientific community. These are really,
really important things to think about as we
move forward. Yeah, we really encourage you to
look into these issues more deeply. find more
conversations on related topics by following
meteorologist Rob Jones on Instagram, meteorologist
on TikTok, TV meteorologist, and on YouTube,
follow Rob Jones Hurricane, where you can also
find the Meteorology Matters podcast playlist.
This is a rapidly changing situation, and it
really does warrant your continued attention
and some real critical thinking. Yeah, and one
final thought for you to consider is how these
potential shifts might not just affect the US,
but could actually reshape the scientific and
medical landscapes in other countries, especially
in those countries that are seen as offering
more stable and supportive environments, both
for research and and for health care professionals.
Yeah, that's that's really interesting to think
about. It's something to keep an eye on. Yeah,
absolutely.