WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.480 Welcome back to Meteorology Matters. You know, 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:05.379 um, today we're going to track a different kind 00:00:05.379 --> 00:00:08.880 of storm system. Oh, yeah. The, uh, turbulent 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:10.859 relationship between social media and democracy. 00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:13.500 Okay. And, uh, before he gets hooked away, remember 00:00:13.500 --> 00:00:16.160 to follow meteorologist Rob Jones on Instagram, 00:00:16.460 --> 00:00:19.079 meteorologist on TikTok, TV meteorologist, and 00:00:19.079 --> 00:00:21.399 on YouTube follow Rob Jones hurricane, where 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:23.839 you can also find the Meteorology Matters podcast 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:28.160 playlist. So think of it this way. Social media 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:31.309 trends, they're like powerful winds. They can 00:00:31.309 --> 00:00:34.170 really shift the climate of our democracy. And 00:00:34.170 --> 00:00:36.670 just like a sudden pressure drop that hints at 00:00:36.670 --> 00:00:39.090 a storm coming, some changes in social media, 00:00:39.130 --> 00:00:41.310 they've created kind of a breeding ground for 00:00:41.310 --> 00:00:45.009 discord and distrust. That's a really striking 00:00:45.009 --> 00:00:47.929 comparison. And it shows how these seemingly 00:00:47.929 --> 00:00:49.649 separate parts of our lives, they can actually 00:00:49.649 --> 00:00:51.229 intersect. There's this old story, the Tower 00:00:51.229 --> 00:00:55.130 of Babel, where people become so divided that 00:00:55.130 --> 00:00:57.170 they can't even understand each other. It's a 00:00:57.170 --> 00:01:00.979 really powerful metaphor for what what some people 00:01:00.979 --> 00:01:03.859 see happening in America today. Social media, 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:05.400 we thought it was gonna bring us together, but 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:09.400 it's become a modern day tower of babble. It's 00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:11.640 splitting us up into all these different factions, 00:01:12.180 --> 00:01:15.120 makes it harder to agree on even basic truths. 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:17.420 So instead of a global village, we've kinda got 00:01:17.420 --> 00:01:20.060 all these isolated digital islands. Exactly. 00:01:20.180 --> 00:01:22.079 And the further they drift apart, the harder 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:25.060 it is to build bridges between them. Yeah, precisely. 00:01:25.299 --> 00:01:27.579 It's like we're all tuned into different weather 00:01:27.579 --> 00:01:30.459 channels, experiencing totally different realities. 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:33.340 And this poses a huge challenge for democracy, 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:37.799 because democracy needs shared facts, compromise, 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:41.060 a basic level of trust. And that trust, it seems 00:01:41.060 --> 00:01:43.200 like it's vanishing faster than rainwater in 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:46.340 a desert. Yeah, it is really troubling. If you 00:01:46.340 --> 00:01:49.439 think about the crucial ingredients of a healthy 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:53.920 democracy, things like social capital. Robust 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:57.200 institutions, shared narratives, social media, 00:01:57.579 --> 00:01:59.920 it seems to be weakening all of them in subtle 00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:02.099 but really important ways. Okay, so let's break 00:02:02.099 --> 00:02:04.680 those down a little bit. What do you mean when 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:07.879 you say social capital? Okay. How has social 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:10.900 media changed that? Okay, so social capital, 00:02:11.060 --> 00:02:13.479 that's like the glue that holds society together. 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:15.460 You know, the trust, the connections that allow 00:02:15.460 --> 00:02:18.340 us to work together and solve problems. But social 00:02:18.340 --> 00:02:22.599 media, it kind of pushes us to focus on appearances, 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:26.039 superficial connections, instead of real relationships. 00:02:27.020 --> 00:02:29.979 We end up curating our online selves all the 00:02:29.979 --> 00:02:32.240 time, chasing likes and shares instead of real 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.000 conversations. It's like a recipe for distrust, 00:02:35.060 --> 00:02:37.360 where we see other people not as fellow citizens, 00:02:37.419 --> 00:02:40.780 but as rivals. It's almost as if we forget that 00:02:40.780 --> 00:02:44.460 there's an actual person, like a real human with 00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:47.879 feelings, behind that profile picture. Yeah, 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:51.229 exactly. It makes it much easier to just dismiss 00:02:51.229 --> 00:02:52.990 people or attack them when they think differently. 00:02:53.650 --> 00:02:55.469 And the algorithms, they just make it worse. 00:02:55.610 --> 00:02:58.629 They amplify all the outrage and anger, which 00:02:58.629 --> 00:03:02.129 then goes viral and just creates this feedback 00:03:02.129 --> 00:03:05.150 loop of negativity. Yeah, it's like a wildfire 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:08.610 online. It's spreading so fast. Misinformation, 00:03:09.210 --> 00:03:12.389 animosity, it's pretty alarming. It is. And that 00:03:12.389 --> 00:03:14.900 brings us to the second thing. Strong institutions. 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:17.599 Yeah. You know, the bedrock of society, the government, 00:03:17.939 --> 00:03:21.240 media, our education system. They all need public 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:24.719 trust to work. But social media. All the misinformation, 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:27.479 the outrage, it's chipped away at that trust. 00:03:27.659 --> 00:03:31.460 It breeds cynicism and doubt. It's like a constant 00:03:31.460 --> 00:03:33.939 drip, drip, drip of negativity poisoning the 00:03:33.939 --> 00:03:36.180 well of public discourse. Exactly. And it makes 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:38.840 it really difficult for these institutions to 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:40.900 address real problems and make good decisions. 00:03:41.300 --> 00:03:43.740 We're always questioning their motives, their 00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:46.539 expertise, their legitimacy. And that creates 00:03:46.539 --> 00:03:48.979 gridlock dysfunction. It just gets harder and 00:03:48.979 --> 00:03:51.289 harder to make progress. What about that third 00:03:51.289 --> 00:03:54.409 pillar you mentioned, the shared narratives? 00:03:54.770 --> 00:03:56.830 Right, shared narratives. Those are the stories 00:03:56.830 --> 00:03:59.919 that bind us together as a nation. Our history, 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.139 our values, our sense of who we are, they give 00:04:03.139 --> 00:04:06.539 us common ground, but social media, it's fragmented 00:04:06.539 --> 00:04:08.520 that national narrative. It's like we're all 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:10.680 reading completely different history books, watching 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:13.500 different news channels, and we end up with totally 00:04:13.500 --> 00:04:16.139 different versions of reality. That makes it 00:04:16.139 --> 00:04:19.199 really hard to find common ground and agree on 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:22.120 a shared vision for the future. We end up talking 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:24.600 past each other, stuck in these echo chambers. 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:28.300 That just reinforce our existing beliefs. and 00:04:28.300 --> 00:04:30.259 make it even harder to breach those divides. 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:33.699 OK, so we've got this erosion of social capital, 00:04:34.019 --> 00:04:35.819 institutions kind of crumbling under pressure, 00:04:36.100 --> 00:04:38.639 and our shared national narrative shattered into 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:42.019 a million pieces. Yeah. That's a pretty bleak 00:04:42.019 --> 00:04:44.740 picture. It is. It is. But understanding how 00:04:44.740 --> 00:04:48.649 we got here, that's crucial. It's like some new 00:04:48.649 --> 00:04:50.810 weather pattern we've never seen before. There's 00:04:50.810 --> 00:04:52.850 this concept called structural stupidity that 00:04:52.850 --> 00:04:55.470 I think might help us make sense of it all. Structural 00:04:55.470 --> 00:04:58.230 stupidity. Okay, that sounds intriguing, but 00:04:58.230 --> 00:05:00.949 also a little unsettling. Yeah, so think about 00:05:00.949 --> 00:05:03.990 an organization, right? Where everyone's afraid 00:05:03.990 --> 00:05:08.110 to speak up, challenge anything, offer a different 00:05:08.110 --> 00:05:10.649 perspective. Maybe there's a culture of conformity. 00:05:10.810 --> 00:05:13.290 or people are afraid of what will happen if they 00:05:13.290 --> 00:05:15.810 speak up. Maybe there's just no trust in the 00:05:15.810 --> 00:05:19.069 leadership. The reason doesn't matter as much 00:05:19.069 --> 00:05:21.850 as what happens as a result. The organization 00:05:21.850 --> 00:05:24.550 just can't process information effectively anymore. 00:05:24.730 --> 00:05:28.490 It can't adapt to change. It can't make informed 00:05:28.490 --> 00:05:32.629 decisions. So they become stupid, in a sense. 00:05:32.750 --> 00:05:35.050 In a sense, yeah. It's self -inflicted blindness. 00:05:35.230 --> 00:05:37.889 Right. like a collective unwillingness to actually 00:05:37.889 --> 00:05:40.589 see things clearly. OK. And how does this relate 00:05:40.589 --> 00:05:43.589 to social media? Think of social media as this 00:05:43.589 --> 00:05:47.050 massive dart gun, just constantly firing accusations 00:05:47.050 --> 00:05:50.410 and insults and threats. It creates this atmosphere 00:05:50.410 --> 00:05:53.550 of fear where people are afraid to express themselves 00:05:53.550 --> 00:05:57.209 honestly for fear of being publicly shamed, canceled, 00:05:57.290 --> 00:05:58.730 whatever you want to call it. Right. So it's 00:05:58.730 --> 00:06:01.649 like this digital muzzle. Exactly. And that's 00:06:01.649 --> 00:06:04.550 why structural stupidity is so dangerous when 00:06:04.550 --> 00:06:08.050 people are afraid to speak up bad ideas, they 00:06:08.050 --> 00:06:11.670 go unchallenged. Groupthink takes over, and organizations 00:06:11.670 --> 00:06:14.750 just become ineffective. And this dynamic, it's 00:06:14.750 --> 00:06:16.750 not just on one side of the political spectrum. 00:06:16.829 --> 00:06:19.610 It plays out in different ways. But both the 00:06:19.610 --> 00:06:22.670 left and the right are vulnerable to it. So you're 00:06:22.670 --> 00:06:25.350 saying that both sides, they're both falling 00:06:25.350 --> 00:06:28.550 into this structural stupidity trap. Absolutely. 00:06:28.769 --> 00:06:30.629 And it's really interesting to see how this plays 00:06:30.629 --> 00:06:33.810 out differently, you know, based on their core 00:06:33.810 --> 00:06:36.810 narratives and values. OK. Let's start with what 00:06:36.810 --> 00:06:39.050 some people call the devoted conservatives, you 00:06:39.050 --> 00:06:42.250 know, their worldview. It often revolves around 00:06:42.250 --> 00:06:46.170 this narrative of fear of threat. They see the 00:06:46.170 --> 00:06:48.360 world as this battle between good and evil. you 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:51.480 know, patriots versus traitors. Right, it's very 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:54.060 much an us versus them mentality, like any compromise 00:06:54.060 --> 00:06:56.899 is a sign of weakness. Exactly. And this worldview, 00:06:57.100 --> 00:06:58.939 it can make them very vulnerable to things like 00:06:58.939 --> 00:07:01.540 conspiracy theories and misinformation. Right. 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:03.639 Especially when those narratives, they feed into 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:05.759 their existing beliefs and anxieties. You know, 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.160 it's like they're trapped in this echo chamber 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.040 of their own making, just constantly bombarded 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:13.500 with information that confirms their biases, 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:16.800 amplifies their fears. Right. And we've seen, 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:19.060 you know, in recent, In recent years, this can 00:07:19.060 --> 00:07:21.939 lead to some pretty dangerous outcomes. The spread 00:07:21.939 --> 00:07:24.579 of all that misinformation about the 2020 election, 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:28.199 the events of January 6th, those are really stark 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:31.920 reminders of how easily misinformation spreads 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:35.240 and how bad the consequences can be. Yeah, that's 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:37.759 a chilling example of how these online dynamics, 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:40.339 they can really spill over into the real world 00:07:40.339 --> 00:07:43.060 and have real world consequences. But you mentioned 00:07:43.060 --> 00:07:45.079 that the left is not immune to this either. Yeah, 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:48.889 that's right. particularly the activist wing, 00:07:49.209 --> 00:07:52.069 they're often driven by this narrative of social 00:07:52.069 --> 00:07:54.689 justice and equality. They see the world through 00:07:54.689 --> 00:07:57.509 the lens of power dynamics, you know, where certain 00:07:57.509 --> 00:07:59.769 groups are privileged and others are marginalized. 00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:01.889 It's a worldview that's rooted in compassion. 00:08:02.189 --> 00:08:05.069 Yeah. You know, a desire for a fairer society. 00:08:05.170 --> 00:08:08.089 Yeah. But I guess, like anything, it can have 00:08:08.089 --> 00:08:11.850 unintended consequences too. Exactly. This perspective, 00:08:11.850 --> 00:08:14.910 it can lead to this rigid ideological purity 00:08:14.910 --> 00:08:18.029 test where anyone who steps outside the accepted 00:08:18.029 --> 00:08:23.149 narrative is labeled, you know, heretic, a traitor 00:08:23.149 --> 00:08:25.350 to the cause. Sounds like a digital witch hunt. 00:08:25.350 --> 00:08:27.769 Right. Where people are afraid to even slightly 00:08:27.769 --> 00:08:31.829 disagree for fear of being like ostracized. Exactly. 00:08:31.949 --> 00:08:36.259 Yeah. And that creates this environment of intolerance 00:08:36.259 --> 00:08:39.899 and conformity, dissenting voices are silenced, 00:08:40.299 --> 00:08:43.460 critical thinking is stifled, and bad ideas, 00:08:43.460 --> 00:08:46.200 they can take root and spread. So we've got the 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:48.460 left and the right, they're both caught in their 00:08:48.460 --> 00:08:51.240 own versions of structural stupidity, unable 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:53.919 to really talk to each other or find common ground. 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:56.980 That does feel like a recipe for disaster. It's 00:08:56.980 --> 00:08:59.120 definitely a challenging situation and to make 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.600 things even more complex, there's this new threat 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:03.720 that could make things exponentially worse. Oh 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:05.990 no, what's that? AI -generated disinformation. 00:09:06.090 --> 00:09:08.830 AI -generated disinformation. That sounds like 00:09:08.830 --> 00:09:10.750 something straight out of a sci -fi movie. I 00:09:10.750 --> 00:09:13.850 know, right? But it's becoming all too real. 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:16.820 artificial intelligence is advancing so rapidly, 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.120 and it can now create these amazingly convincing 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:23.460 fake news articles, social media posts, even 00:09:23.460 --> 00:09:25.279 videos. So are you saying that we're going to 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:29.340 be facing this like deluge of AI generated propaganda 00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:31.559 and misinformation? It's a real possibility. 00:09:31.659 --> 00:09:35.340 And this technology, it's only going to get more 00:09:35.340 --> 00:09:37.899 powerful, more accessible in the next few years. 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.879 Yeah. It's a serious threat to our ability to 00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:43.159 even tell what's true and what's false, to trust 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:45.679 the information. and that makes it really hard 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:47.700 to make informed decisions. Yeah, it's like we're 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:50.019 entering this new era of information warfare. 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:52.440 Right. Where it's hard to tell what's real and 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:54.779 what's not. Exactly. And the biggest target in 00:09:54.779 --> 00:09:58.809 this war is our democracy. So what can we do? 00:09:58.909 --> 00:10:01.049 I mean, is there any way to navigate this? Is 00:10:01.049 --> 00:10:04.350 there any hope at all? There is hope, but it's 00:10:04.350 --> 00:10:06.590 going to take a collective effort. You know, 00:10:06.769 --> 00:10:09.470 a willingness to change how we behave and a commitment 00:10:09.470 --> 00:10:12.149 to making our democratic institutions stronger. 00:10:12.450 --> 00:10:14.549 So where do we even begin? What can we actually 00:10:14.549 --> 00:10:18.070 do to protect our democracy? There are a few 00:10:18.070 --> 00:10:21.029 potential solutions, each with its own challenges 00:10:21.029 --> 00:10:23.789 and opportunities. But before we get into those, 00:10:23.970 --> 00:10:25.629 I think it's important to remember that even 00:10:25.629 --> 00:10:28.190 in the middle of all this, there is reason for 00:10:28.190 --> 00:10:30.769 optimism. OK, that's that's good to hear. What 00:10:30.769 --> 00:10:33.350 makes you hopeful? Well, for one thing, awareness 00:10:33.350 --> 00:10:36.470 of the problem is growing. People are starting 00:10:36.470 --> 00:10:38.830 to see the negative effects of social media both 00:10:38.830 --> 00:10:41.590 on themselves and on our democracy as a whole. 00:10:41.909 --> 00:10:43.809 It's like we're finally waking up and realizing 00:10:43.809 --> 00:10:47.559 that this. constant diet of outrage and misinformation 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:50.779 is making us sick, individually and collectively. 00:10:50.940 --> 00:10:53.379 Yeah, that's a great analogy. And that growing 00:10:53.379 --> 00:10:55.340 awareness is really important because it creates 00:10:55.340 --> 00:10:57.980 the possibility for dialogue, for critical thinking, 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.179 and ultimately for finding solutions. So it's 00:11:01.179 --> 00:11:03.519 not all doom and gloom. We can still change course, 00:11:03.860 --> 00:11:06.419 reclaim our digital spaces, and rebuild trust. 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:09.100 Absolutely. But it's not going to be easy. It's 00:11:09.100 --> 00:11:11.259 going to take a lot of effort from all of us, 00:11:11.620 --> 00:11:14.320 individuals, organizations, our government institutions. 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:17.659 to push back against these negative forces. Okay, 00:11:17.659 --> 00:11:20.519 so what can we do as individuals? Like, what 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.399 are some practical things we can do to protect 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:24.840 ourselves and our communities? Well, one of the 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:27.500 most important things is to pay attention to 00:11:27.500 --> 00:11:30.919 our own social media use, you know? Okay, what 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:33.580 does that mean, practically speaking? It means, 00:11:33.580 --> 00:11:36.759 like, noticing how much time we spend online, 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:39.120 what kind of content we're looking at, and how 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:42.399 it makes us feel. So, being more mindful of our 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:45.080 relationship with social media. You know, setting 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:47.759 some boundaries. Exactly. And we need to get 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:50.720 better at discerning the information we see online. 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.639 You mean like figuring out what's true and what's 00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:56.720 not. Spotting bias. Exactly. You know, really 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.360 looking at where the information is coming from. 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:01.399 Those skills are absolutely essential now in 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.620 this age of misinformation and AI generated stuff. 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:07.120 It's like we need to develop this internal BS 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:10.200 detector. Exactly. A really good sense of skepticism 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:12.039 to help us navigate all of this. Right, but it's 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:14.100 not just about being skeptical. It's also about 00:12:14.100 --> 00:12:16.840 being open -minded, you know, willing to consider 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:19.500 different perspectives and actually seeking out 00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:22.539 information that challenges our own biases. That 00:12:22.539 --> 00:12:25.039 sounds like a call for intellectual humility, 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:26.919 you know, admitting that we don't know everything. 00:12:27.139 --> 00:12:29.019 Exactly. And that we can learn from others, even 00:12:29.019 --> 00:12:31.360 people we disagree with. Exactly. And that leads 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.460 to another really important point, the need for 00:12:34.460 --> 00:12:37.120 respectful dialogue. Yeah. Even with those who 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.419 see things differently. Okay, respectful dialogue. 00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:43.029 That sounds great, but I mean... how it's so 00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:45.389 toxic online. Yeah, it's definitely not easy, 00:12:45.509 --> 00:12:49.009 but it is possible. And it starts by remembering 00:12:49.009 --> 00:12:50.990 that the people on the other side of the screen, 00:12:51.429 --> 00:12:53.690 they're people too. They have their own thoughts, 00:12:53.990 --> 00:12:56.090 feelings, experiences that have made them who 00:12:56.090 --> 00:12:59.409 they are. So remembering the human element. Exactly. 00:12:59.529 --> 00:13:01.669 We're all in this together, even when we disagree. 00:13:01.809 --> 00:13:04.649 It's about building bridges, not walls, finding 00:13:04.649 --> 00:13:07.649 common ground, not just focusing on our differences. 00:13:07.889 --> 00:13:09.990 Right, so being deliberate. Yeah. Choosing to 00:13:09.990 --> 00:13:13.360 engage in a way that's, you know, constructive. 00:13:13.419 --> 00:13:17.080 Yeah. And respectful, even when it's hard. Exactly. 00:13:17.139 --> 00:13:19.539 And remembering that our words have power both 00:13:19.539 --> 00:13:22.659 online and offline. Right. I mean, they can hurt, 00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:25.460 they can heal, they can inspire, they can divide. 00:13:25.740 --> 00:13:28.159 Exactly. So we need to choose them carefully, 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:32.419 speak with kindness and empathy, and use our 00:13:32.419 --> 00:13:34.759 voices to promote understanding. So it's not 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:37.919 just what we say, but how we say it. Precisely. 00:13:37.940 --> 00:13:40.659 And remember, even silence is a choice. What 00:13:40.659 --> 00:13:42.980 do you mean silence is a choice? I mean, we have 00:13:42.980 --> 00:13:45.539 a responsibility to speak up against injustice, 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:49.399 to defend the truth, to stand up for what we 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:52.159 believe in. We can't be passive bystanders in 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:54.679 this information war. Our democracy needs us 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:57.559 to participate, speak out, find solutions. So 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:00.460 being informed, engaged, proactive, and protecting 00:14:00.460 --> 00:14:02.700 our democracy. Exactly. We can't afford to be 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:05.100 complacent. The stakes are too high. It's a huge 00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:07.139 challenge, but it's also You know, inspiring 00:14:07.139 --> 00:14:08.899 is a reminder that we all have a role to play. 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:11.539 Absolutely. And it's a reminder that even in 00:14:11.539 --> 00:14:13.159 the face of all these challenges, there's always 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:15.879 hope. Right. Hope that we can get through this. 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.860 That we can reclaim our online spaces and build 00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:21.399 a better world for ourselves and future generations. 00:14:21.740 --> 00:14:25.399 Exactly. And that hope is what keeps me going. 00:14:25.580 --> 00:14:28.519 It fuels my passion for this work and gives me 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:30.980 faith in the future. It's a good reminder that 00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:34.019 even when things seem really difficult, we humans 00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:37.230 are resilient. We've got this capacity for hope. 00:14:38.370 --> 00:14:41.629 And our commitment to democracy, it's unwavering. 00:14:41.710 --> 00:14:43.690 That's what makes this work so important. We're 00:14:43.690 --> 00:14:46.909 fighting for the soul of our nation, the values 00:14:46.909 --> 00:14:49.789 that define us, the future we want. It's a fight 00:14:49.789 --> 00:14:52.559 worth having. a cause worth fighting for. Absolutely. 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:54.720 And it's a journey we need to take together. 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:56.879 And that's a really important point. Yeah. You 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:59.740 know, we need to move beyond this this me first 00:14:59.740 --> 00:15:02.500 mentality. Right. And work together to solve 00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:05.360 these problems. Exactly. We need to recognize 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:07.799 that we're all connected. Yeah. That our actions 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.220 affect other people and that we all have a responsibility 00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:14.000 to build a better world. Which brings us back 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.779 to that idea of social capital. You know, the 00:15:16.779 --> 00:15:19.210 trust. the connections that hold us together 00:15:19.210 --> 00:15:22.070 as a society. So how do we rebuild those things? 00:15:22.409 --> 00:15:25.870 It's a tough question, but it's not impossible. 00:15:26.450 --> 00:15:29.370 One surprisingly effective thing is to just disconnect 00:15:29.370 --> 00:15:32.210 from social media more often. Disconnect, but 00:15:32.210 --> 00:15:37.230 isn't that how we stay connected? Yeah, to some 00:15:37.230 --> 00:15:39.649 extent. To family, friends, stay informed about 00:15:39.649 --> 00:15:41.690 what's going on. It is, but it's also a source 00:15:41.690 --> 00:15:44.269 of constant distraction, comparison, negativity. 00:15:45.269 --> 00:15:47.649 Taking a break from it, even for a little while, 00:15:47.769 --> 00:15:50.269 can help us reconnect with ourselves, our loved 00:15:50.269 --> 00:15:53.129 ones, our communities in a much more meaningful 00:15:53.129 --> 00:15:55.309 way. Right. It's like hitting the reset button, 00:15:56.149 --> 00:15:58.009 giving ourselves time to breathe, to reflect, 00:15:58.289 --> 00:16:00.460 to recharge. That's a great way to put it. And 00:16:00.460 --> 00:16:02.519 when we do engage with social media, we can be 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:04.919 more mindful about it, more intentional. OK, 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:06.980 what does that look like? How do we become more 00:16:06.980 --> 00:16:09.700 intentional online? Well, it means being choosy 00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:12.419 about who we follow, what we read, what conversations 00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:15.340 we join. Right. It means unfollowing those accounts 00:16:15.340 --> 00:16:18.100 that spread negativity or misinformation, and 00:16:18.100 --> 00:16:21.740 looking for those that promote positivity, understanding, 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:26.129 connection. So curating our digital diets, choosing 00:16:26.129 --> 00:16:29.049 to feed ourselves information that lifts us up, 00:16:29.409 --> 00:16:32.009 that inspires us, rather than stuff that drains 00:16:32.009 --> 00:16:34.789 us and divides us. Exactly. And remember, social 00:16:34.789 --> 00:16:37.970 media is a tool. It can be used for good or bad. 00:16:38.190 --> 00:16:40.669 Right. It all depends on us. So it's not about 00:16:40.669 --> 00:16:43.750 demonizing social media, but about using it to 00:16:43.750 --> 00:16:46.350 make the world a better place. Exactly. And one 00:16:46.350 --> 00:16:48.529 powerful way to do that is to connect with people 00:16:48.529 --> 00:16:50.490 who have different views. Connect with people 00:16:50.490 --> 00:16:52.330 who disagree with us. Isn't that what's causing 00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:55.210 all this division? It can be if we approach those 00:16:55.210 --> 00:16:57.529 interactions with hostility and judgment. Yeah. 00:16:57.659 --> 00:17:00.799 But it can also be a chance to learn, understand, 00:17:01.179 --> 00:17:03.659 connect. So how do we bridge that gap? How do 00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:05.960 we talk to people we disagree with without it 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.160 turning into a fight? Well, it's about approaching 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.380 those conversations with curiosity. A genuine 00:17:11.380 --> 00:17:14.140 desire to understand the other person's perspective, 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:16.380 even if we don't agree with them in the end. 00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:19.619 So building bridges instead of walls. Finding 00:17:19.619 --> 00:17:22.359 common ground instead of just focusing on what 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:25.420 divides us. That's the heart of it. It's challenging, 00:17:25.539 --> 00:17:28.259 but it's also really rewarding. And it's one 00:17:28.259 --> 00:17:30.819 of the most important things we can do to rebuild 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:34.279 trust, to heal the divisions, to create a more 00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:37.359 just and equitable world. So as we wrap up this 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:39.460 conversation about social media and democracy, 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:42.099 what's the one thing you want listeners to remember? 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:44.299 I think the most important thing to remember 00:17:44.299 --> 00:17:48.440 is this. We're not powerless. We have the power 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.759 to choose how we use social media. how we consume 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.220 information, how we interact with each other, 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:56.660 we have the power to build a better world, both 00:17:56.660 --> 00:17:59.220 online and offline. That's a powerful message. 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:02.000 It gives people hope, reminds us that we have 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.460 agency, that we can make a difference. Exactly. 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:06.700 And it's a reminder that the future of our democracy 00:18:06.700 --> 00:18:09.180 depends on us being active, speaking out, finding 00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:11.720 solutions. So let's all be more mindful, more 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.019 intentional, more engaged in making the world 00:18:14.019 --> 00:18:16.859 a better place, both online and in our everyday 00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:18.940 lives. Absolutely. And let's ask ourselves some 00:18:18.940 --> 00:18:21.599 big questions. What kind of world do we want? 00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:23.619 What kind of digital space do we want? And what 00:18:23.619 --> 00:18:26.329 kind of society do we want to leave behind? Those 00:18:26.329 --> 00:18:28.990 are big questions, you know? They make us think, 00:18:29.109 --> 00:18:31.890 they challenge us to act, to imagine a better 00:18:31.890 --> 00:18:34.269 future. Exactly. And those are the questions 00:18:34.269 --> 00:18:37.289 that will guide us as we move forward, as we 00:18:37.289 --> 00:18:39.210 navigate the challenges and opportunities of 00:18:39.210 --> 00:18:41.910 the digital age, and as we work to build a more 00:18:41.910 --> 00:18:45.690 just, equitable, and democratic society for everyone. 00:18:46.430 --> 00:18:48.309 Well, thank you for joining us on Meteorology 00:18:48.309 --> 00:18:50.690 Matters. I know it was a bit of a different topic 00:18:50.690 --> 00:18:52.829 today, but I hope you found it thought -provoking. 00:18:53.670 --> 00:18:57.660 Until next time. Stay curious stay engaged and 00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:59.880 stay hopeful. It's about realizing that we're 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:02.240 not just individuals, you know, we're part of 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.900 this larger web of Relationships and systems 00:19:05.900 --> 00:19:07.960 right and understanding that it can help us start 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:09.799 to tackle some of these really big challenges 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:12.119 like, you know Making our democratic institutions 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.500 stronger. Yeah, you talked about hardening institutions 00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:16.519 earlier. What does that actually look like? How 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:20.980 do we make these systems more? Resilient, you 00:19:20.980 --> 00:19:22.980 know to the kinds of pressures we've been talking 00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:26.400 about Well, one promising approach is to reform 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.019 our electoral system. OK, when you say reform, 00:19:29.259 --> 00:19:30.779 what kind of changes are you thinking about? 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:33.259 Well, one idea that's getting a lot of attention 00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:36.460 is moving away from closed party primaries. So 00:19:36.460 --> 00:19:38.180 for those who might not know, closed primaries 00:19:38.180 --> 00:19:40.779 mean that only voters registered with a specific 00:19:40.779 --> 00:19:44.500 party can vote in that party's primary. What's 00:19:44.500 --> 00:19:46.970 the problem with that system? The problem is 00:19:46.970 --> 00:19:50.190 it often ends up favoring the most extreme candidates, 00:19:50.829 --> 00:19:52.609 you know, the ones who appeal to the party base 00:19:52.609 --> 00:19:54.869 but might not represent the majority of voters. 00:19:55.230 --> 00:19:58.210 So the idea is to open up the primaries, let 00:19:58.210 --> 00:20:01.309 everyone vote, regardless of their party. Exactly. 00:20:01.809 --> 00:20:04.190 That way, candidates have to appeal to a broader 00:20:04.190 --> 00:20:06.670 range of voters, and that encourages moderation 00:20:06.670 --> 00:20:09.089 and compromise. It sounds like that could help 00:20:09.089 --> 00:20:11.849 reduce the influence of the people who, you know, 00:20:11.890 --> 00:20:14.130 who thrive on division and extreme rhetoric. 00:20:14.430 --> 00:20:16.789 Exactly. That's the goal. Another reform that 00:20:16.789 --> 00:20:19.150 some people have suggested is ranked choice voting. 00:20:19.569 --> 00:20:21.490 OK, remind me how ranked choice voting works. 00:20:21.750 --> 00:20:24.789 So in a ranked choice system, voters wank the 00:20:24.789 --> 00:20:27.130 candidates in order of preference instead of 00:20:27.130 --> 00:20:29.730 just picking one. And this encourages candidates 00:20:29.730 --> 00:20:32.849 to try to build broader coalitions and appeal 00:20:32.849 --> 00:20:35.710 to a more diverse group of voters. Sounds like 00:20:35.710 --> 00:20:37.970 it could make elections, I don't know, a little 00:20:37.970 --> 00:20:40.640 less divisive. Yeah. That's the hope. And it's 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:42.460 already being used in some places around the 00:20:42.460 --> 00:20:44.859 country, and the results seem promising. OK, 00:20:45.460 --> 00:20:47.299 so electoral reform is one way to strengthen 00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:49.700 institutions. Yeah. What other areas should we 00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:51.960 be looking at? Oh, there are definitely others. 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:54.880 Another area that could use some reform is how 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.519 we choose the people who run our elections. You 00:20:57.519 --> 00:20:59.079 mean the people who make sure elections are? 00:20:59.259 --> 00:21:02.660 Fair and accurate? Exactly. Right now, those 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:05.099 positions are often very political, which can 00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.259 make people question the whole electoral process. 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.680 So how do we make those positions less political? 00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:15.019 Well, one idea is to create non -partisan commissions. 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.019 Yeah. To handle things like drawing electoral 00:21:18.019 --> 00:21:20.720 districts and choosing election officials. Taking 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:22.480 the partisanship out of it. That makes sense. 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:24.660 I mean, that could go a long way toward restoring 00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:27.009 people's confidence in elections. Absolutely. 00:21:27.289 --> 00:21:29.349 And there are other reforms we could think about, 00:21:30.089 --> 00:21:32.630 like strengthening campaign finance laws, making 00:21:32.630 --> 00:21:35.309 the government more transparent, protecting whistleblowers. 00:21:35.450 --> 00:21:37.890 OK, so all of these reforms, it seems like the 00:21:37.890 --> 00:21:41.549 goal is to make institutions less vulnerable 00:21:41.549 --> 00:21:44.549 to... you know, manipulation, more accountable 00:21:44.549 --> 00:21:46.430 to the people, and more focused on the common 00:21:46.430 --> 00:21:49.230 good. Exactly. We need a system that's not so 00:21:49.230 --> 00:21:51.890 easily swayed by the loudest voices, the most 00:21:51.890 --> 00:21:54.349 extreme viewpoints, and the most manipulative 00:21:54.349 --> 00:21:56.789 tactics. It sounds like it's gonna be a long, 00:21:57.109 --> 00:21:59.190 difficult process. It will be. But it's important 00:21:59.190 --> 00:22:02.009 to remember we're not powerless, you know? There 00:22:02.009 --> 00:22:04.710 are things we can do, individually and together, 00:22:05.170 --> 00:22:07.660 to make our democracy stronger. So what about 00:22:07.660 --> 00:22:09.880 social media itself? I mean, it feels so powerful, 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.339 like this huge wave of information and misinformation 00:22:13.339 --> 00:22:16.319 we can't control. How do we even begin to address 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:19.339 that? You know, social media is incredibly powerful, 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:21.960 but it's not completely beyond our influence. 00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:24.400 There are some reforms that could help lessen 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.059 its negative effects without resorting to censorship. 00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:30.539 OK, so how do we reform social media without 00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:33.460 limiting free speech? That seems like a really 00:22:33.460 --> 00:22:35.599 difficult balance to strike. It is a delicate 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.990 balance. But I think it's possible. One idea 00:22:38.990 --> 00:22:41.990 is to find ways to slow down the spread of harmful 00:22:41.990 --> 00:22:45.230 content. Slow it down without censoring it? Isn't 00:22:45.230 --> 00:22:47.329 the point of social media to share information 00:22:47.329 --> 00:22:50.460 quickly? Well... Yes, but the problem is right 00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:53.200 now the algorithms are designed to amplify whatever 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:56.259 is most engaging right and that often means the 00:22:56.259 --> 00:22:59.680 most outrageous divisive Emotionally charged 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:02.539 stuff. Okay, you know it creates this sort of 00:23:02.539 --> 00:23:04.920 information arms race where the loudest most 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:07.539 extreme voices end up dominating It's like everyone's 00:23:07.539 --> 00:23:09.240 trying to shout louder than everyone else. Yeah 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:11.599 exactly But what if we change the algorithm so 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:13.940 they prioritize things that are more thoughtful 00:23:13.940 --> 00:23:16.670 nuanced, you know Things that encourage real 00:23:16.670 --> 00:23:19.589 dialogue. So instead of rewarding, like anger 00:23:19.589 --> 00:23:22.049 and division, we could reward thoughtfulness 00:23:22.049 --> 00:23:23.910 and civility. Right, exactly. It's not about 00:23:23.910 --> 00:23:26.089 censoring anything. It's about creating a more 00:23:26.089 --> 00:23:28.529 level playing field. OK. What are some other 00:23:28.529 --> 00:23:31.730 ideas for reforming social media? Well, another 00:23:31.730 --> 00:23:34.730 idea is to rethink the share function. The button 00:23:34.730 --> 00:23:36.710 that lets you repost something to your followers. 00:23:36.869 --> 00:23:40.269 Yeah, exactly. That one simple button has become 00:23:40.269 --> 00:23:45.059 this. of misinformation, you know? It lets lies 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:48.099 and conspiracy theories spread incredibly fast. 00:23:48.259 --> 00:23:50.240 So how do we change that without stopping people 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:51.960 from sharing things they think are important? 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.960 Well, one idea is to just make it a little bit 00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:58.140 harder to share. Like, what if you had to copy 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:00.299 and paste something instead of just hitting a 00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:02.500 button? Right. That would force people to pause 00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:04.400 for a second, think about what they're sharing. 00:24:04.579 --> 00:24:07.279 It's like a speed bump. Yeah. To slow down the 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.000 spread of misinformation. Exactly. And there 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.640 are other possibilities too, like requiring social 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:14.839 media platforms to be more transparent about 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.339 their algorithms. Okay. Giving users more control 00:24:18.339 --> 00:24:21.920 over their data, you know? Yeah. Holding platforms 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:24.180 accountable for the content they host. Okay, 00:24:24.259 --> 00:24:27.279 so all of these reforms, the goal is to create 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.740 a more responsible, accountable social media 00:24:30.740 --> 00:24:34.029 environment. That's it. We need a digital public 00:24:34.029 --> 00:24:37.609 square that encourages real dialogue, critical 00:24:37.609 --> 00:24:39.930 thinking, and informed decisions. That sounds 00:24:39.930 --> 00:24:42.089 like a pretty big challenge. It is. And it's 00:24:42.089 --> 00:24:43.869 not just about the platforms themselves. It's 00:24:43.869 --> 00:24:46.230 also about preparing the next generation, you 00:24:46.230 --> 00:24:50.390 know, to handle this world. Our kids, our grandkids, 00:24:50.490 --> 00:24:52.750 I mean, what can we do to help them deal with 00:24:52.750 --> 00:24:54.369 all of this? Well, one of the most important 00:24:54.369 --> 00:24:57.369 things is to delay their exposure to social media. 00:24:57.630 --> 00:25:00.920 Delay their exposure. But social media is everywhere. 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.500 How do we shield kids from it completely? It's 00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:07.660 definitely not easy, but research has shown that 00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:11.480 too much social media can be harmful to kids, 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:13.839 you know, to their mental health and development. 00:25:14.059 --> 00:25:16.440 It's almost like it's addictive. and potentially 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:19.039 harmful, especially for young minds that are 00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:21.299 still developing. Exactly. We need to treat social 00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:23.420 media like anything else that could be harmful 00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:26.799 and restrict access until kids are mature enough 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:29.099 to handle it responsibly. So when are kids ready? 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:31.599 What's the magic age? Well, there's no one size 00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.019 fits all answer, but a lot of experts say we 00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:36.740 should wait until at least high school, maybe 00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:39.319 even later. So no smartphones for elementary 00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:42.700 school kids, no social media until they're teenagers. 00:25:43.460 --> 00:25:44.920 A lot of parents are not going to like that. 00:25:45.019 --> 00:25:48.059 I know, it's tough. But it's worth it. We need 00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:51.359 to put our kids' well -being first. And honestly, 00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:53.680 they'll be better off without all those distractions 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.220 and pressures during those crucial years. I can 00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:58.700 see that. What else can we do to prepare them? 00:25:58.900 --> 00:26:01.819 Well, besides delaying their exposure, we need 00:26:01.819 --> 00:26:05.140 to teach them how to be critical thinkers. How 00:26:05.140 --> 00:26:08.039 to tell what's true from what's not. How to spot 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:10.880 bias, how to evaluate sources. Right, so they 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.579 can figure things out for themselves. Exactly. 00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:15.700 Those skills are more important now than ever. 00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:17.740 And we also need to teach them how to disagree 00:26:17.740 --> 00:26:21.119 respectfully. How to have conversations without 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:24.039 being mean. How to build relationships with people 00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:26.839 who are different from them. So fostering empathy, 00:26:27.859 --> 00:26:31.740 tolerance. Exactly. Those are the skills that 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:33.920 will help them navigate this world, build bridges 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:37.559 instead of walls, and create a more just and 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.500 equitable society. Okay, so giving them the tools 00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:44.779 and the mindset to be responsible. digital citizens, 00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:47.359 critical thinkers, compassionate people. Exactly. 00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:50.359 And it's not just about school. It's also about 00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:53.440 the values we teach them at home, the conversations 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.740 we have, the example we set. Right. So creating 00:26:56.740 --> 00:27:00.259 this culture of respect, curiosity, a love of 00:27:00.259 --> 00:27:02.759 learning, both online and in the real world. 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:04.779 That's a beautiful way to put it. And it's about 00:27:04.779 --> 00:27:06.940 holding onto hope, even in the middle of all 00:27:06.940 --> 00:27:09.539 these challenges. You've painted a pretty bleak 00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:12.180 picture. I mean, what makes you hopeful? You 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.599 know, I am concerned about the challenges, but 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.480 I also believe that we can change things. We 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.660 can reclaim our digital spaces, and we can build 00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:24.339 a stronger democracy. OK, that's good. What gives 00:27:24.339 --> 00:27:26.970 you that hope? Like we talked about, people are 00:27:26.970 --> 00:27:29.690 becoming more aware of the problem. They're realizing 00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:32.809 that all this outrage and misinformation is bad 00:27:32.809 --> 00:27:36.269 for us, as individuals and as a society. It's 00:27:36.269 --> 00:27:38.750 like we're finally waking up from this bad dream. 00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:41.609 Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And that awareness 00:27:41.609 --> 00:27:44.750 is the first step towards change. It opens the 00:27:44.750 --> 00:27:47.910 door for dialogue, reflection, and finding solutions. 00:27:48.789 --> 00:27:51.369 So it's not all doom and gloom. Definitely not. 00:27:51.430 --> 00:27:53.029 We still have a chance to make things better. 00:27:53.269 --> 00:27:56.390 Absolutely. but it's going to take a lot of effort 00:27:56.390 --> 00:27:59.849 from all of us. So, what can we do as individuals? 00:28:00.069 --> 00:28:01.890 I mean, what are some practical things to protect 00:28:01.890 --> 00:28:03.990 ourselves and our communities from all of this? 00:28:04.309 --> 00:28:07.029 One of the most important things is to pay attention 00:28:07.029 --> 00:28:09.869 to how we use social media, you know? Right, 00:28:09.910 --> 00:28:12.690 we talked about that before, but how do we actually 00:28:12.690 --> 00:28:16.309 do that? Well, it means noticing how much time 00:28:16.309 --> 00:28:18.250 we spend online, what we're looking at, and how 00:28:18.250 --> 00:28:21.109 it makes us feel. Okay, so being more aware of 00:28:21.109 --> 00:28:23.589 our relationship with social media. you know, 00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:26.549 setting boundaries. Exactly. We also need to 00:28:26.549 --> 00:28:28.329 be more careful about the information we see 00:28:28.329 --> 00:28:31.170 online. Right, so figuring out what's true and 00:28:31.170 --> 00:28:33.670 what's not. Exactly. Thinking critically about 00:28:33.670 --> 00:28:36.329 where information comes from. Those are really 00:28:36.329 --> 00:28:38.049 crucial skills these days, and it's not just 00:28:38.049 --> 00:28:41.069 about being skeptical, you know. It's also about 00:28:41.069 --> 00:28:44.009 being open -minded, willing to consider different 00:28:44.009 --> 00:28:46.730 viewpoints, and actually looking for information 00:28:46.730 --> 00:28:49.869 that challenges our own biases. So being humble, 00:28:50.410 --> 00:28:52.549 you know. Admitting that we don't know everything. 00:28:52.829 --> 00:28:55.589 that we can learn from others, even people we 00:28:55.589 --> 00:28:58.710 disagree with. Exactly. And that's closely connected 00:28:58.710 --> 00:29:01.970 to the need for respectful dialogue, even with 00:29:01.970 --> 00:29:03.990 people who see things differently. Okay, respectful 00:29:03.990 --> 00:29:06.549 dialogue, again, that sounds great in theory, 00:29:07.130 --> 00:29:08.890 but how do you actually do that? It feels like 00:29:08.890 --> 00:29:11.769 it's so hard online. It's definitely not easy, 00:29:12.230 --> 00:29:14.710 but it is possible. It starts with remembering 00:29:14.710 --> 00:29:17.309 that the people we're interacting with online... 00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.980 They're real people with their own thoughts, 00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:22.500 feelings, experiences. You know, things that 00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:24.480 have shaped who they are. So remembering that 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.940 they're human, just like us. Exactly. We're all 00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:29.059 in this together, even when we disagree. So it's 00:29:29.059 --> 00:29:31.779 about building bridges, not walls. Finding common 00:29:31.779 --> 00:29:34.359 ground, not just focusing on our differences. 00:29:34.779 --> 00:29:37.740 Right. So choosing to engage in a way that's 00:29:37.740 --> 00:29:40.880 constructive, respectful, even when it's difficult. 00:29:41.019 --> 00:29:43.480 Exactly. And remembering that our words have 00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:46.420 power. You know? Right. They can hurt, they can 00:29:46.420 --> 00:29:49.599 heal, they can inspire. Exactly. So we need to 00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:52.299 choose our words carefully, speak with kindness 00:29:52.299 --> 00:29:56.319 and empathy, and use our voices to promote understanding 00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:58.400 and connection. So it's not just what we say, 00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:01.420 it's how we say it. Precisely. And remember, 00:30:01.740 --> 00:30:05.079 even choosing to stay silent is a choice. What 00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:07.240 do you mean silence is a choice? Well, I mean, 00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:09.720 we have a responsibility to speak out against 00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:12.619 things that are wrong. You know, to defend what's 00:30:12.619 --> 00:30:15.000 true, to stand up for what we believe in. We 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.180 can't just sit back and do nothing. The future 00:30:17.180 --> 00:30:19.440 of our democracy depends on us participating, 00:30:19.779 --> 00:30:22.460 speaking out, finding solutions. So being informed, 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.019 engaged, proactive. Exactly. We can't be complacent. 00:30:26.059 --> 00:30:28.259 There's too much at stake. You know, it's a big 00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:30.819 challenge. Yeah. But it's also inspiring in a 00:30:30.819 --> 00:30:33.000 way. Yeah. It's a reminder that we can make a 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.819 difference. Absolutely. And it's a reminder that 00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:38.990 even in the face of all this, there's hope. Right, 00:30:38.990 --> 00:30:41.049 hope that we can get through this, that we can 00:30:41.049 --> 00:30:43.769 reclaim our online spaces and build a better 00:30:43.769 --> 00:30:46.470 world for ourselves and future generations. Exactly, 00:30:46.730 --> 00:30:49.490 and that hope is what keeps me going, you know? 00:30:49.589 --> 00:30:51.630 It keeps me passionate about this work and gives 00:30:51.630 --> 00:30:54.369 me faith in the future. Yeah, it's a good reminder 00:30:54.369 --> 00:30:58.849 that we humans, we're resilient, you know? We've 00:30:58.849 --> 00:31:01.390 got this amazing capacity for hope. Yeah, we 00:31:01.390 --> 00:31:04.779 do. Our commitment to democracy, it's strong. 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:07.319 It's not going anywhere. That's what makes this 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:09.559 work so important, you know? Yeah. It's about 00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:12.759 fighting for the soul of our nation. Yes. The 00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:15.500 values we believe in, the future we want. It's 00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:17.460 a fight worth having, a cause worth fighting 00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:19.640 for. Absolutely. And it's a journey we have to 00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.059 take together. That's it, yeah. Yeah. It's about 00:31:22.059 --> 00:31:24.500 understanding that, you know, we're not just 00:31:24.500 --> 00:31:26.619 these isolated individuals, we're all part of 00:31:26.619 --> 00:31:29.200 this bigger picture. And if we can get that, 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:31.339 it can really help us face these huge challenges, 00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:34.200 like you mentioned, strengthening our democratic 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.539 institutions. Yeah, you talked about that earlier, 00:31:36.819 --> 00:31:39.220 hardening those institutions. But what does that 00:31:39.220 --> 00:31:41.140 actually look like? I mean, how do we make those 00:31:41.140 --> 00:31:44.859 systems tougher, more resilient, able to withstand 00:31:44.859 --> 00:31:47.059 all these pressures? Well, one really promising 00:31:47.059 --> 00:31:49.880 idea is reforming how our elections work. OK, 00:31:49.940 --> 00:31:53.200 so when you say reform, What kind of specific 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:55.059 changes are we talking about? Well, one thing 00:31:55.059 --> 00:31:56.400 that a lot of people are talking about is getting 00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:59.299 rid of closed party primaries. Right. For those 00:31:59.299 --> 00:32:01.559 who might not be familiar with that term, closed 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:03.720 primaries mean that you can only vote in a primary 00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:06.420 election if you're registered with that specific 00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:08.880 party. What's the issue with that? The problem 00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.019 is that it tends to favor the most extreme candidates, 00:32:12.619 --> 00:32:14.940 the ones who appeal to the party base, but maybe 00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:16.900 not to the broader electorate. So you're saying 00:32:16.900 --> 00:32:20.829 open up the primaries, let everyone vote. regardless 00:32:20.829 --> 00:32:23.750 of their party affiliation. Exactly. That way, 00:32:24.109 --> 00:32:26.470 candidates have to appeal to a wider range of 00:32:26.470 --> 00:32:28.849 voters, which could lead to more moderation, 00:32:29.289 --> 00:32:31.789 more compromise. It sounds like that could really 00:32:31.789 --> 00:32:35.450 help to reduce the influence of those who, you 00:32:35.450 --> 00:32:37.829 know, who just want to stir up division and use 00:32:37.829 --> 00:32:40.130 those really extreme talking points. Exactly. 00:32:40.230 --> 00:32:42.769 That's the hope. Another idea that some people 00:32:42.769 --> 00:32:46.079 have suggested is rank choice voting. OK. Remind 00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:47.859 me how that works again. Sure. So with ranked 00:32:47.859 --> 00:32:50.140 choice voting, you don't just pick one candidate. 00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:53.240 You rank them in order of your preference. OK. 00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:55.980 This way, candidates are encouraged to try to 00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:58.539 build a broader support, appeal to a more diverse 00:32:58.539 --> 00:33:00.559 group of people. It sounds like it could lead 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:03.859 to elections that are a bit less. I don't know, 00:33:03.900 --> 00:33:06.259 a bit less divisive. That's the idea. And it's 00:33:06.259 --> 00:33:08.059 already being implemented in some parts of the 00:33:08.059 --> 00:33:10.839 country with some pretty promising results. OK, 00:33:10.859 --> 00:33:14.119 so we've got electoral reform as one way to strengthen 00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:16.960 institutions. What are some other areas that 00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:19.660 we should be focusing on? Well, another really 00:33:19.660 --> 00:33:22.059 important one is how we choose the people who 00:33:22.059 --> 00:33:24.960 actually oversee our elections. You mean the 00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.079 folks who are responsible for ensuring that our 00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:30.319 elections are conducted fairly and accurately? 00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:33.599 Precisely. Right now, those positions are often 00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:36.619 very politicized, which, you know, understandably 00:33:36.619 --> 00:33:39.640 can undermine public trust in the process. So 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:41.500 how do we how do we change that? How do we make 00:33:41.500 --> 00:33:45.279 those roles less political? One idea is to establish 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:48.400 nonpartisan commissions to handle things like, 00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:51.019 you know, drawing electoral districts and selecting 00:33:51.019 --> 00:33:53.319 those election officials. So basically taking 00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:55.700 the partisan politics out of the equation. That 00:33:55.700 --> 00:33:57.980 seems like it could really help to restore people's 00:33:57.980 --> 00:34:00.519 faith in the integrity of our elections. It could, 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:03.819 yeah. There are other reforms, too, like strengthening 00:34:03.819 --> 00:34:06.779 campaign finance laws, increasing transparency 00:34:06.779 --> 00:34:08.780 in government, protecting whistleblowers, things 00:34:08.780 --> 00:34:11.360 like that. It sounds like all these reforms aim 00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:14.739 to make our institutions less vulnerable to, 00:34:14.739 --> 00:34:17.840 well, to manipulation. More accountable to the 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:21.440 people and more focused on the common good. Exactly. 00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.300 We need a system that is more resilient, you 00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:27.059 know? Right. Not so easily swayed by the loudest, 00:34:27.059 --> 00:34:29.639 most extreme voices or by those who are just 00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:31.659 trying to game the system for their own benefit. 00:34:31.820 --> 00:34:33.559 It sounds like it's going to be a long and difficult 00:34:33.559 --> 00:34:36.619 process. It will be. But it's important to remember 00:34:36.619 --> 00:34:39.280 that, you know, we're not completely helpless 00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:41.940 here. There are things we can do as individuals 00:34:41.940 --> 00:34:44.400 and together to really make a difference. OK, 00:34:44.420 --> 00:34:46.760 so what about social media itself? I mean, it 00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:49.500 just seems so big and powerful, this torrent 00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:52.719 of information, misinformation. How do we even 00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.280 begin to address that? I hear you. It can feel 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:58.199 overwhelming, but it's not entirely out of our 00:34:58.199 --> 00:34:59.920 control. There are things we can do to mitigate 00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:02.219 the negative effects without resorting to censorship. 00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:05.780 OK, so how do we reform social media without 00:35:05.780 --> 00:35:08.920 infringing on people's right to free speech? 00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:11.360 That seems like a really delicate balance to 00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:13.820 strike. It is, but I think it's possible. One 00:35:13.820 --> 00:35:16.480 idea is to find ways to slow down the spread 00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.980 of harmful content. OK, slow it down, but not 00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:21.780 censor it. Isn't the whole point of social media 00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:24.719 to share information quickly and widely? It is, 00:35:24.739 --> 00:35:27.360 but the algorithms are designed to amplify whatever 00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:29.840 content gets the most engagement. And that often 00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:33.239 means things that are outrageous, divisive, emotionally 00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:35.059 charged. Right, so it becomes kind of a race 00:35:35.059 --> 00:35:37.420 to the bottom. Yeah, sort of. It's like everyone's 00:35:37.420 --> 00:35:39.559 trying to shout the loudest, be the most outrageous. 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.920 But what if we change the algorithms to actually 00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.739 favor content that's more thoughtful, more nuanced, 00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:49.539 that encourages real conversation and debate? 00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:53.260 So instead of rewarding anger and division, we'd 00:35:53.260 --> 00:35:55.989 be rewarding thoughtfulness and civility. Exactly. 00:35:56.170 --> 00:35:58.750 It's not about censoring specific viewpoints. 00:35:58.869 --> 00:36:01.329 It's about creating a more level playing field. 00:36:01.550 --> 00:36:03.750 OK, I like that. What are some other ideas? Well, 00:36:04.010 --> 00:36:06.070 another one that's gaining traction is modifying 00:36:06.070 --> 00:36:08.630 the share function. Oh, the button that allows 00:36:08.630 --> 00:36:10.889 you to just repost something to all your followers. 00:36:11.210 --> 00:36:13.550 Yep, that's the one. And honestly, that little 00:36:13.550 --> 00:36:16.849 button has become this weapon of mass misinformation. 00:36:17.210 --> 00:36:19.969 It lets falsehoods and conspiracy theories spread 00:36:19.969 --> 00:36:22.619 like wildfire. So how do we change that without 00:36:22.619 --> 00:36:24.840 limiting people's ability to share things they 00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:27.780 find interesting or important? Well, one idea 00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:30.000 is to just add a little bit of friction to the 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.820 process. Like, you know, what if instead of just 00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:34.800 clicking a button, you had to actually copy and 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:36.840 paste the content you wanted to share? It wouldn't 00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.940 be a huge change, but it would force people to 00:36:39.940 --> 00:36:41.800 stop and think for a second about what they're 00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:44.059 spreading. Right, like a little speed bump. Yeah. 00:36:44.250 --> 00:36:47.329 Exactly. And there are other possibilities too, 00:36:47.429 --> 00:36:49.750 like requiring platforms to be more transparent 00:36:49.750 --> 00:36:52.530 about their algorithms, giving users more control 00:36:52.530 --> 00:36:55.369 over their data, holding the platforms more accountable 00:36:55.369 --> 00:36:58.250 for the content they host. All those sound like 00:36:58.250 --> 00:37:00.750 good steps towards creating a more responsible, 00:37:01.110 --> 00:37:04.030 accountable, and trustworthy social media environment. 00:37:04.309 --> 00:37:07.150 Exactly. The goal is to create a digital space 00:37:07.150 --> 00:37:10.190 that encourages real dialogue, critical thinking, 00:37:10.789 --> 00:37:13.380 informed decisions, you know. Right. a healthy 00:37:13.380 --> 00:37:15.179 public square, so to speak. Yeah, that's a good 00:37:15.179 --> 00:37:17.460 way to put it. It's a big challenge, but I think 00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:19.400 it's an essential one if we want to preserve 00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:22.559 our democracy in the digital age. And it's not 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.019 just about reforming these platforms themselves. 00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:27.679 It's also about preparing the next generation 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:30.099 to handle this complex world they're inheriting. 00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:32.679 So you're talking about our kids, grandkids. 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:36.079 I mean, what can we do to equip them to handle 00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:38.420 all of this? One of the most important things 00:37:38.420 --> 00:37:41.519 is to delay their exposure to social media. Delay 00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:43.840 it. But it's so ingrained in our lives these 00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:46.800 days. I mean, how do you shield kids from it 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.500 completely? It's tough, I know. But the research 00:37:49.500 --> 00:37:52.460 is pretty clear. Too much social media can be 00:37:52.460 --> 00:37:54.579 harmful to kids' mental health and development. 00:37:54.940 --> 00:37:57.400 Right. It's addictive and potentially really 00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:00.300 harmful. Especially for young, developing minds. 00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:02.619 Exactly. I think we need to start treating social 00:38:02.619 --> 00:38:05.440 media like we do any other potentially harmful 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.440 substance. Limit access until kids are mature 00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:10.780 enough to handle it responsibly. So what's the 00:38:10.780 --> 00:38:13.199 magic age? When are kids ready for social media? 00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:15.780 You know, there's no easy answer to that. It 00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:18.179 depends on the individual kid. But many experts 00:38:18.179 --> 00:38:20.480 think we should wait at least until high school, 00:38:20.500 --> 00:38:23.659 maybe even later. So no smartphones for elementary 00:38:23.659 --> 00:38:26.400 school kids. No social media accounts until they're 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:28.440 teenagers. I feel like that's going to be a hard 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.539 sell for a lot of parents. It will be. But it's 00:38:31.539 --> 00:38:33.940 important. We need to put our kids' well -being 00:38:33.940 --> 00:38:36.719 first. Honestly, they'll be better off without 00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.079 all those distractions and pressures, especially 00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:41.260 during those crucial developmental years. I see 00:38:41.260 --> 00:38:44.139 your point. What else can we do? Along with delaying 00:38:44.139 --> 00:38:46.559 their exposure. We need to teach them how to 00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:50.380 be really critical consumers of information You 00:38:50.380 --> 00:38:51.920 know you mean being able to tell what's true 00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:55.820 and what's not spotting bias Evaluating sources 00:38:55.820 --> 00:38:58.599 like we talked about earlier exactly those skills 00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:01.260 are more important now than ever in this age 00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:04.840 of misinformation and AI generated content It's 00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:06.920 like giving them a toolkit to be able to sort 00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:09.039 through all the noise and find the truth right 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.039 giving them the skills to be like digital detectives. 00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:14.239 Yeah, something like that. And we need to teach 00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:16.659 them how to disagree respectfully, how to have 00:39:16.659 --> 00:39:18.800 conversations without being mean or hurtful, 00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.059 how to build relationships with people who are 00:39:21.059 --> 00:39:23.260 different from them. So fostering those qualities 00:39:23.260 --> 00:39:26.940 of empathy, tolerance, a willingness to listen 00:39:26.940 --> 00:39:29.809 to other perspectives. Exactly. Those are the 00:39:29.809 --> 00:39:32.030 skills that will really empower them, you know, 00:39:32.230 --> 00:39:36.289 to navigate this complex world, to build bridges 00:39:36.289 --> 00:39:39.469 instead of walls, to work toward a more just 00:39:39.469 --> 00:39:42.170 and equitable society. OK, so it's about giving 00:39:42.170 --> 00:39:45.510 them the tools and the mindset they need to be 00:39:45.510 --> 00:39:48.730 responsible digital citizens, to think critically, 00:39:48.769 --> 00:39:51.610 to be compassionate human beings. Exactly. And 00:39:51.610 --> 00:39:54.110 that education, it goes beyond just formal schooling. 00:39:54.110 --> 00:39:56.409 It's also about the values we model for them 00:39:56.409 --> 00:39:59.489 at home. the conversations we have, the examples 00:39:59.489 --> 00:40:02.670 we set. Right, so creating this culture of respect, 00:40:03.110 --> 00:40:05.750 curiosity, a love of learning. I love that, yeah, 00:40:05.750 --> 00:40:07.909 and it's about holding onto hope, even when things 00:40:07.909 --> 00:40:10.489 feel really tough. I mean, you've painted a pretty 00:40:10.489 --> 00:40:12.809 bleak picture of the challenges we're up against. 00:40:13.429 --> 00:40:15.989 What gives you hope? You know, I am concerned, 00:40:16.010 --> 00:40:18.190 but I really do believe we have the power to 00:40:18.190 --> 00:40:20.050 change things for the better. Okay, that's good 00:40:20.050 --> 00:40:22.030 to hear. What specifically gives you that hope? 00:40:22.250 --> 00:40:24.699 Well, like we talked about earlier, Awareness 00:40:24.699 --> 00:40:27.079 of the problem is growing. More and more people 00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:29.340 are starting to realize that this constant diet 00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.760 of outrage and misinformation, it's not good 00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:35.460 for us, it's not good for our society. It's like 00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:37.960 we're finally starting to wake up and realize. 00:40:38.530 --> 00:40:40.969 where this path is leading us. And we should 00:40:40.969 --> 00:40:43.429 say, no, this isn't what we want. Yeah, exactly. 00:40:43.710 --> 00:40:45.829 And that awareness is essential. It's the first 00:40:45.829 --> 00:40:48.690 step towards real change. It opens the door for 00:40:48.690 --> 00:40:51.309 dialogue, for critical thinking, for finding 00:40:51.309 --> 00:40:53.610 solutions. So it's not all doom and gloom. We 00:40:53.610 --> 00:40:55.769 still have a chance to change course. We absolutely 00:40:55.769 --> 00:40:59.650 do. But it's going to take sustained effort from 00:40:59.650 --> 00:41:03.090 all of us, individuals, organizations, those 00:41:03.090 --> 00:41:06.090 working within our institutions. It's a collective 00:41:06.090 --> 00:41:08.929 effort. Absolutely. Well, on that note, I think 00:41:08.929 --> 00:41:10.690 it's time to wrap up. This has been a really 00:41:10.690 --> 00:41:12.409 fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for 00:41:12.409 --> 00:41:14.829 joining us on Meteorology Matters. I know it 00:41:14.829 --> 00:41:16.849 was a bit of a departure from our usual weather 00:41:16.849 --> 00:41:19.409 discussions, but I hope everyone found it informative 00:41:19.409 --> 00:41:21.650 and thought -provoking. Until next time, stay 00:41:21.650 --> 00:41:24.289 curious, stay engaged, and stay hopeful.