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Welcome back to Meteorology Matters, everyone.

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I'm Rob Jones, and I'm really excited for today's show

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because we're gonna be diving into something

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that I think is super fascinating.

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Okay.

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It all started with this executive order about logging.

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You know, the one that President Trump just signed.

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Oh yeah, the one that's got everyone talking.

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Right, exactly.

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On the surface, it seems like, you know,

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just another political thing.

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But the thing is, it could actually end up having

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some really big impacts on our weather.

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You know what, that's what I love about meteorology.

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Yeah.

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Like, it's all connected, right?

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You think you're just looking at trees,

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but then bam, it's affecting rainfall patterns

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and temperatures and everything.

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Makes sense, so for all of you listening out there,

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buckle up because we're about to uncover

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how this executive order could actually change

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the weather we experience.

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Yeah.

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And trust me, this is something that affects all of us.

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Absolutely.

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So first things first, let's break down exactly

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what this executive order says.

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You know what it actually does.

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Okay, sounds good.

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So President Trump signed it on March 1st, 2025.

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And the big goal is to increase timber production

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on federal lands.

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Okay.

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Now that means the land managed by the US Forest Service

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and the Bureau of Land Management.

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Gotcha.

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So basically they want to get more wood from those areas.

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Right, and not just more wood.

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They want it faster and in bigger quantities.

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And to do that, they're basically saying that

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those agencies might have to find ways to kind of...

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Sites up.

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Sites up some environmental regulations.

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Interesting, and which regulations

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are we talking about here?

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Well, the executive order specifically mentions

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two big ones, the Endangered Species Act

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and the National Environmental Policy Act,

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or NEPA for short.

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Ah, yeah.

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Those are pretty important

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when it comes to protecting the environment.

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Right, they're not messing around.

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So let's start with the Endangered Species Act.

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What does that one actually do?

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Well, like the name suggests it protects species

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that are in danger of going extinct,

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you know, disappearing forever.

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Okay, makes sense.

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And this executive order,

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it actually instructs the Fish and Wildlife Service

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to streamline the approval process for forestry projects.

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You know, the ones that might have been held up

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because of concerns about endangered species.

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So basically they're saying,

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hey, let's speed things up,

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even if it means putting some species at risk.

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Yeah, that's kind of the gist of it,

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and it's definitely causing some controversy.

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I bet, and then there's NEPA.

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What's that all about?

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NEPA is all about making sure the government

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thinks about the environment before they do anything major,

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you know, like building a highway,

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or in this case, logging a bunch of trees.

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So like an environmental impact assessment.

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Exactly, they have to consider things like air

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and water, quality, wildlife, habitat,

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all that good stuff.

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Makes sense.

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But this executive order wants to exempt

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certain logging activities from NEPA review.

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Oh really?

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And which activities are we talking about?

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Pimber thinning and timber salvage activities.

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Hmm, timber salvage activities.

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Now those usually happen after something like a wildfire

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or an insect outbreak, right?

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Yeah, where they go in and remove the damaged trees.

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Exactly, but the executive order wants to exempt

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those activities from NEPA review,

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which, you know, even if the trees are damaged,

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removing them can still have a big impact on the ecosystem.

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Like erosion and flooding.

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Exactly, it's all connected.

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And it seems like they're really trying

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to remove any roadblocks to speed up this logging thing.

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Yeah, I'm sensing a theme here.

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And speaking of roadblocks,

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they also mentioned something called the God Squad

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in the executive order.

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The God Squad.

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What is that, some kind of superhero team for trees?

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Ha ha, not quite.

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It's actually the official name

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is the Endangered Species Committee.

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Okay.

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And they have the power to basically say,

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yeah, we know this project might harm Endangered Species,

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but we're gonna let it happen anyway.

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Wow, so they can override the Endangered Species Act?

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Exactly.

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And the executive order specifically says

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they wanna use this committee to get around any issues

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the Endangered Species Act might cause for logging.

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Hmm, that's pretty powerful.

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And I'm sure it's not sitting well with a lot of people.

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Yeah, it's definitely a controversial move.

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So we've got this executive order

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that's aiming to boost logging potentially

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at the expense of Endangered Species

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and environmental regulations.

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But now let's bring it back to the weather.

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Okay, let's do it.

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How does cutting down all these trees,

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especially on a large scale,

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how does that impact weather patterns and our climate?

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Well, that's where things get really interesting

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from a meteorological standpoint.

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You know, trees, they're like giant air filters.

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They suck up carbon dioxide,

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which is a greenhouse gas that contributes to climate change.

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So when we cut down trees,

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all that carbon dioxide gets released back

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into the atmosphere.

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So more logging means more carbon dioxide

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and more carbon dioxide means...

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A warmer planet.

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Right, so we've talked about before.

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It's like wrapping the earth in an extra blanket.

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Exactly, and deforestation doesn't just affect

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global temperatures, it can also mess with things

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like rainfall patterns.

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Oh, really? How so?

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Well, trees, they help regulate the water cycle.

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You know, they absorb water

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and then release it back into the atmosphere,

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which helps form clouds and rain.

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Cutting down trees disrupts that whole cycle.

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So less rain?

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Potentially, yeah.

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Some areas might end up with less rain and even droughts.

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Yikes.

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Didn't the executive order talk about reducing wildfire risk

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as a reason for increasing logging?

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Yeah, that was one of their arguments.

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But is there actually any truth to that claim?

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It's complicated.

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Removing some trees, especially dead or dying ones,

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can definitely reduce the amount of fuel available

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for a wildfire to spread.

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But if logging is done too aggressively,

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like clear cutting, where they remove

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pretty much all the trees,

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it can actually make things worse.

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Oh, wow, how so?

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Well, trees provide shade, right,

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that keeps the forest floor cool and moist

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when you remove those trees.

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The ground dries out,

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making it way more susceptible to fire.

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So it's not just a simple more logging

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equals fewer wildfires?

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Nope, it really depends on how and where it's done.

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And we have to think about the long-term consequences too,

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right? Absolutely.

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We can't just focus on the short-term gains.

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We need to consider how these changes

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could affect everything,

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from local temperatures to soil erosion to water quality.

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It's all connected.

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Okay, so we've laid out how this executive order aims

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to boost logging and some of the potential

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environmental impacts.

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But as with most things,

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there are different viewpoints on this issue, right?

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Oh yeah, definitely.

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People have some strong opinions about this one.

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Welcome back to meteorology matters.

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Before we went to break,

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we were talking about how trees are like

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these natural air filters,

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pulling carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.

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Right, and we all know that carbon dioxide

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is a big deal when it comes to climate change.

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Huge.

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Can you break it down for us?

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How does more CO2 in the atmosphere

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actually lead to changes in weather patterns?

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You got, so think of carbon dioxide,

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like this heat-trapping gas, right?

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Okay.

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And as we release more and more of it into the atmosphere,

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it's like we're adding another layer to that blanket

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we were talking about earlier,

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the one wrapped around Earth.

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And that extra layer,

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it traps more of the sun's heat

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and that gradually warms the planet.

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So it's not just about the planet

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getting a little bit warmer overall.

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It's about how that warming affects our weather systems.

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Exactly, it throws things out of whack, you know?

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Like take rainfall, for example.

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Warmer temperatures can lead to changes

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in precipitation patterns.

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Oh, really?

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Yeah, some areas might see more intense rainfall

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and flooding,

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while others might actually get less rain leading to droughts.

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Wow, so less rain in some places, more in others.

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What else might we see happening weather-wise

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because of this?

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Well, we also have to talk about extreme weather events,

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you know, things like hurricanes, heat waves,

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and even those really bad winter storms.

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As the planet warms these events,

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they have the potential to become more frequent

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and more intense.

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So a warmer world, more extreme weather.

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Not a good combination.

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Not ideal.

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You mentioned rainfall patterns earlier

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and how trees are an important part of the water cycle.

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Right.

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Did you expand on that a bit?

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Like how does deforestation actually change how rain falls?

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Okay, so trees, they play this really vital role

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in the water cycle.

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It's a process called transpiration,

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where they absorb water from the soil

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and then release it into the atmosphere as water vapor.

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And that water vapor eventually forms clouds

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and then of course comes back down as rain.

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It's like a big, beautiful cycle.

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It is, it's amazing,

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but when we remove trees from the equation,

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we mess up that whole cycle.

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So fewer trees mean less water going into the atmosphere.

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Exactly, which can lead to less rain in certain areas.

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Got it.

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And what about the soil?

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Does deforestation affect that too?

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Oh yeah, big time.

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Without the roots of trees to hold the soil in place,

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deforestation can increase the risk of soil erosion.

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I see, so when it rains,

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all that water can just wash away the soil.

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Especially on hillsides and slopes.

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Yeah, that makes sense.

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Okay.

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And where does all that soil go?

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It often ends up in rivers and streams,

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which pollutes them and harms aquatic life.

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It's like a domino effect.

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It really is.

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We've talked about global temperatures and rainfall,

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but what about local temperatures?

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Does deforestation have a direct impact

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on how hot or cold it gets in a specific area?

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Absolutely.

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Think about how much cooler it feels

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to stand under a tree on a hot day, right?

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00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:00,360
Oh yeah, for sure.

276
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,000
Trees are like these giant umbrellas

277
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,680
providing shade and cooling things down.

278
00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:06,040
But when forests are cleared,

279
00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,600
that shade disappears and the land absorbs

280
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:09,880
more of the sun's heat.

281
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:10,720
So it gets hotter?

282
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:11,840
Way hotter.

283
00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,560
It creates these like hot spots,

284
00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:15,040
almost like little microclimates

285
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,200
where the temperature is noticeably warmer

286
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:18,840
than in surrounding areas.

287
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,520
So deforestation is basically making things even hotter

288
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,160
on top of global warming.

289
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:25,400
Sadly, yes.

290
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:26,720
Okay, so warmer temperatures,

291
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,240
changes in rainfall patterns, more intense storms.

292
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,360
This isn't painting a very pretty picture.

293
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,040
It is concerning, but I think it's important to remember

294
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,800
that we're not totally powerless in this situation.

295
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:38,880
That's good to hear.

296
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:39,920
There are things we can do,

297
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:41,960
both individually and collectively,

298
00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,960
to help mitigate these impacts.

299
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,320
Like what can people do?

300
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:47,320
Well, first and foremost,

301
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,400
we need to support sustainable forestry practices.

302
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,120
You know, choosing wood products

303
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,000
that are certified by organizations

304
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,080
like the Forest Stewardship Council.

305
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,200
So looking for those labels

306
00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,240
that tell you the wood was harvested responsibly.

307
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,000
Exactly, and planting trees is always a great idea.

308
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,920
Organizations like the Arbor Day Foundation

309
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,040
make it super easy to plant trees

310
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:07,600
in areas that need the most.

311
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:08,440
I love that.

312
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:09,880
And what about on a bigger scale?

313
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,640
Well, advocating for policies that protect our forests

314
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,360
and promote reforestation efforts

315
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,240
can make a huge difference.

316
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,200
This is all really helpful information.

317
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,520
I'll be sure to include links to those organizations

318
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:21,720
you mentioned in our show notes

319
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,920
so our listeners can find out how to get involved.

320
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,880
Awesome, yeah, because this isn't just about saving trees.

321
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,440
You know, it's about safeguarding our planet's health

322
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,280
and ensuring a livable future for generations to come.

323
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:34,360
Well said.

324
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,720
So we've talked a lot about the negative impacts of logging.

325
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,200
Are there any potential upsides

326
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:41,840
when it comes to weather patterns?

327
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,240
There can be, but they're very specific

328
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,520
and they require careful planning and execution.

329
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,720
For example, in some areas where forests

330
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,240
have become super dense, you know,

331
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,080
because of fire suppression,

332
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,600
thinning out some of the trees

333
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,440
can actually make the forest healthier

334
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,200
and more resilient to wildfires.

335
00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:59,400
That makes sense.

336
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:00,760
If the trees are too close together,

337
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:01,880
a fire can spread like crazy.

338
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,120
Exactly. By selectively removing some trees,

339
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,920
you can reduce the risk of those huge out-of-control wildfires

340
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:10,920
that we've been seeing more and more of lately.

341
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,000
So it's not a simple all logging is bad situation?

342
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,880
Nope, it all comes down to how it's done.

343
00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,320
It's about finding that balance.

344
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,440
Exactly, finding that sweet spot

345
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,240
between using our natural resources

346
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,240
and protecting the environment.

347
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:25,560
We've covered a lot of ground here

348
00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:27,240
from the basics of the water cycle

349
00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,840
to the potential for more extreme weather events.

350
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,360
But this issue also has a big political dimension, right?

351
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,200
Definitely.

352
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,120
There are strong opinions on both sides

353
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,720
and those opinions are often driven

354
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,720
by economic interests, environmental concerns,

355
00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,840
and let's be honest, sometimes even ideology.

356
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,720
It's a complex issue for sure.

357
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,960
Welcome back to Meteorology Matters.

358
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,520
You know, we've been spending this episode

359
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,320
talking about this new executive order

360
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,200
that could really ramp up logging on federal lands.

361
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,040
Right, and how that could affect our weather patterns.

362
00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,920
Exactly, but as with most things,

363
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,760
there's always more than one side to the story, right?

364
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:02,600
Definitely.

365
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,120
So let's hear from both sides.

366
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,240
Let's start with the folks who are all for increased logging.

367
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:08,240
What are their main points?

368
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,840
Well, a lot of them talk about the economic benefits,

369
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,360
especially for rural communities

370
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,160
where timber is a big industry, you know?

371
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,040
Yeah, makes sense.

372
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,760
Logging creates jobs not just in the forest,

373
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,840
but also in sawmills and all those businesses

374
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,000
that rely on wood.

375
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,240
Right, it's a whole chain.

376
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,120
And they argue that having more timber available

377
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,800
could help lower the cost of building materials,

378
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,840
which would be good news for the housing market.

379
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,400
Okay, so jobs and the economy,

380
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,520
and we talked earlier about how some folks believe

381
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,560
that logging can actually be good for forests in the long run.

382
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:41,760
That's right, they're all about

383
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,800
what they call active forest management.

384
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,080
Okay, what does that mean exactly?

385
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,800
Well, it involves things like thinning out overcrowded forests,

386
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,960
removing dead trees and branches,

387
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,000
and even using controlled burns

388
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,480
to reduce the risk of wildfires.

389
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,360
So they're saying that a little bit of intervention

390
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,160
can prevent bigger problems down the road.

391
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,600
Exactly, they argue that these practices

392
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,480
can make forests more resilient

393
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,200
and less likely to experience

394
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,000
those catastrophic mega fires we've been seeing.

395
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,960
Interesting, okay, so that's one side of the argument.

396
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,600
Now, what about the folks who are against increased logging?

397
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:14,760
What are their concerns?

398
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,480
Well, their biggest worry is deforestation,

399
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,440
especially if it's done on a large scale

400
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,000
or without proper oversight, you know?

401
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:22,840
Yeah, that makes sense.

402
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,080
They're especially concerned about clear cutting,

403
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,160
where they remove pretty much all the trees

404
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:28,520
in an area.

405
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,560
They say that can be really devastating to ecosystems

406
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:33,760
destroying wildlife habitat,

407
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,120
increasing soil erosion, and polluting water sources.

408
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,720
And I'm guessing they're not too happy

409
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,920
about the potential impact on climate change either.

410
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,000
You got it, they argue that we need to be protecting

411
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,800
our forests and not cutting them down

412
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,120
if we're serious about tackling climate change.

413
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,840
Right, because trees are like these giant carbon sponges.

414
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,520
Exactly, they absorb and store huge amounts

415
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,360
of carbon dioxide that would otherwise

416
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,040
be contributing to global warming.

417
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,400
So cutting them down basically releases

418
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,280
all that carbon back into the atmosphere.

419
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:02,920
It's like undoing all that hard work.

420
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,520
So we've got some pretty compelling points on both sides.

421
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,600
It seems like a classic clash between economic interests

422
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,640
and environmental concerns.

423
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,160
Is there any common ground here

424
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,560
or are these two sides just totally at odds?

425
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:17,040
You know, I think it's important to remember

426
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,040
that this is a complex issue.

427
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,760
There isn't always a simple right or wrong answer.

428
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,480
There are definitely situations

429
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,840
where logging can be done responsibly.

430
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,880
You know, using sustainable practices

431
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,280
that minimize the environmental impact.

432
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,640
But there are also cases where protecting forests

433
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,920
from logging is absolutely essential,

434
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,280
especially when it comes to things

435
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,160
like preserving biodiversity, protecting endangered species,

436
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,320
and safeguarding those vital water resources.

437
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,680
So it sounds like the key is finding that balance.

438
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,000
Exactly, a little give and take from both sides

439
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,400
might be the best way forward.

440
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,680
It's about understanding that one size doesn't fit all

441
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,000
when it comes to forest management.

442
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,120
You said it, we need to consider the unique characteristics

443
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,760
of each area, the long-term impacts

444
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:03,200
of different logging practices,

445
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,480
and find solutions that work for both people and the planet.

446
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,520
Solutions that benefit everyone in the long run.

447
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:09,360
I like that.

448
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,320
And I think we need to move beyond the rhetoric,

449
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:12,680
you know, the sound bites,

450
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,360
and really engage in some meaningful conversations

451
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,800
about how to manage our forests sustainably.

452
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,400
I agree, we need to be informed.

453
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,320
We need to listen to different perspectives.

454
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:23,960
And we need to be willing to compromise.

455
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:24,800
Absolutely.

456
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,760
And it's a truly eye-opening conversation.

457
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,520
Thank you so much for joining me on meteorology matters

458
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,640
and for sharing your expertise with our listeners.

459
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,800
It was my pleasure, thanks for having me.

460
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,680
And to all of you listening out there,

461
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,680
remember weather is connected to everything.

462
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,000
Stay curious, keep learning,

463
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,760
and make sure you're making informed choices

464
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,920
that support a healthier planet.

465
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,120
I'm Rob Jones, your host,

466
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:47,680
and if you want to continue this conversation,

467
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,400
follow me on Instagram, meteorologists,

468
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,480
on TikTok, TV meteorologists,

469
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,880
and on YouTube, follow Rob Jones' hurricane,

470
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:55,920
where you can also find

471
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,880
meteorology matters podcast playlist.

472
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:23,360
Thanks for tuning in.