Welcome back to Meteorology Matters, everybody.
I'm your host, Rob Jones.
Glad to be here.
As always, I'm excited to dig into some interesting weather
and science stuff with you.
Always interesting.
But first, real quick, gotta remind you guys,
follow me on Instagram.
It's meteorologist.
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All kinds of cool stuff there,
like behind the scenes of weather forecasting,
explanations of the latest meteorological events.
Cool, cool.
All right, so you know how we usually,
you know, focus on the pure science of weather here
on meteorology matters.
Right.
Well, today, we're gonna explore
how some recent political events,
you know, series of executive orders,
are kind of creating a whirlwind of impacts
across all different kinds of scientific fields
and even sparking some protests.
Wow.
It's a little different for our usual stuff,
but it highlights how interconnected science
and politics really are.
Absolutely.
It's easy to think that those two worlds are separate,
but the truth is decisions made in government,
they have a huge ripple effect on research, funding,
even the lives of individual scientists.
Exactly.
And what's really interesting
is how these executive orders are impacting
areas you might not expect,
you know, areas that seem really far removed
from the political arena.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Why don't we start with something close to home
for our listeners?
The potential impact on weather forecasting.
Right.
You know, the National Oceanic Atmosphere Administration.
NOAA plays a critical role in keeping us all informed
about what's happening in the skies above us.
Yeah.
Right, from predicting summer thunderstorms
to tracking hurricanes.
You know, they're the unsun heroes of meteorology.
They really are.
But here's the thing, these executive orders,
well, they could lead to significant staff reductions
at NOAA.
Oh wow.
Maybe even a 10% cut.
Wow.
You know, to give you some perspective,
that could mean losing around 1,000 jobs.
That's pretty significant,
especially for a relatively small agency like NOAA.
I mean, that kind of cut.
That could really have an impact on its ability
to do its job.
Yeah.
I think one area that's a real concern
is the National Weather Service.
Yeah.
Which is, as you know, already facing staff switches.
I mean, think about it.
These cuts, it could mean longer wait times
for critical weather information,
especially during, you know, severe weather events.
That is a scary thought.
Yeah.
And it raises the question, will there be any exemptions,
you know, to protect those weather service meteorologists?
It's a good question.
I mean, public safety's on the line.
But it's not just weather forecasting, is it?
I mean, these executive orders,
they have implications that extend
way beyond meteorology, right?
Reaching into a whole bunch of scientific fields.
Yeah, it's like a domino effect.
You know, you look at the National Science Foundation,
the NSF, they're bracing for potentially massive cuts,
both in staff and budget.
We could be talking about like a 25 to 50% reduction
of their workforce and their annual budget dropping
from $9 billion to just $3 billion.
Wow, those are huge numbers.
And it's not just about the numbers, is it?
I mean, we're talking about real world consequences.
You know, real people whose lives and careers
are being disrupted by this.
There's some pretty heartbreaking stories coming out.
Absolutely, we've heard from a research encephalologist
at the US Department of Agriculture,
they were abruptly fired.
Wow.
From what they called their dream job.
Even though they were as get this,
being considered for a promotion,
can you imagine being so passionate about your work,
about contributing to something you believe in
and having it all ripped away?
Oh, that's devastating.
And you know, there's also a US Geological Survey postdoc.
He got let go.
He's scrambling to try to preserve all of his research data.
Oh no.
On invasive species.
Wow.
Research with major economic implications.
Yeah.
Years of meticulous work just poof gone.
It's a real blow, not just to the individual researchers,
but to scientific progress itself.
Totally.
And you know what, these stories,
they're just the tip of the iceberg.
Highly trained medical professionals
at the NIH Clinical Center.
I mean, we're talking experienced physicians, nurses,
other essential staff, they were let go.
Really?
Potentially jeopardizing patient care
and research studies.
Wow.
It's incredible.
And it goes way beyond just the well-known institutions.
We heard from contractors at the CDC
who are working on epidemiology
and surveillance of cardiovascular disease.
And they were just boom, terminated.
Wow.
I mean, imagine the setback to public health initiatives
when you lose people like that.
And then there's the biologist
at the US Fish and Wildlife Service.
He was given seven days to move out of government housing
after being fired.
Wow.
It's a stark reminder of the real human cost
of these decisions.
Yeah, these stories are really sobering.
I mean, they really highlight the ripple effects
of these executive orders
across so many different areas of science.
It's a very complex and troubling situation.
I think it really brings up a lot of questions
about the role of science in society
and the impact that political decisions
can have on scientific progress.
Absolutely.
And we're just scratching the surface here.
I mean, there's another aspect of these executive orders
that has caused a lot of controversy, a lot of anger,
particularly within the scientific community.
And that is the targeting of diversity, equity,
and inclusion programs, DEI for short.
DEI, oh yeah, absolutely.
This is where things get really, really heated.
I mean, these orders,
they've just ignited a firestorm of debate.
And pushback, essentially,
is turn the scientific community
into a battleground of ideas
about what's acceptable and what's not
when it comes to promoting diversity and inclusion.
It really is fascinating to see
how these orders are forcing institutions to choose sides.
And it's leading to some pretty unexpected
and honestly unsettling consequences.
I mean, we've seen conferences canceled,
diversity offices suspended.
Wow.
DEI-related content just wiped off websites.
Like somebody's trying to erase years of progress.
It's unbelievable.
I mean, even NASA, the agency that put a man on the moon,
they were told to remove mentions of DEI,
Indigenous people, environmental justice,
women in leadership from their public websites.
I mean, it feels like a giant step backward.
It does, and the impact goes beyond words.
NASA's Here to Observe program,
it connected undergraduates
from underrepresented groups with scientists at NASA.
That got cut too.
Contracts for scientists involved in the program were canceled.
Just shutting the door on opportunities for young scientists
from diverse backgrounds.
That's hard to see any positive side to that.
And then there's Fermilab, their DEI office,
the women in engineering group, the LGBTQ plus group,
were all suspended or ordered to cease activities.
I mean, they even went so far as to delete
the LGBTQ plus groups entire mailing list.
Wow.
I mean, it really makes you wonder
if these orders are creating an environment
that's less welcoming, less inclusive.
Yeah, it really does.
But in the midst of all this turmoil,
there have been some institutions
that have stood their ground.
Resisting these directives,
they're reaffirming their commitment
to diversity and inclusion.
You're right, there are pockets of resistance emerging
and it is heartening to see.
Absolutely.
Some institutions pushing back against these directives,
essentially saying, we're not gonna compromise on our values
even if it means facing consequences.
Exactly.
I mean, take a look at Mount Holyoke College.
It's a women's college and they made it crystal clear
that they're willing to give up federal contracts.
Wow.
If it means having to abandon their DEI principles,
I mean, they're essentially saying,
we're not gonna let funding dictate our commitment
to creating an inclusive environment.
It's a bold stance and it highlights
the difficult choices that institutions are facing.
I mean, they're having to weigh their commitment
to diversity and inclusion
against the potential of losing funding,
which can have a massive impact on their operations.
Absolutely.
And that kind of conflict, you know,
between funding and principles,
it brings us to another critical aspect of this whole situation,
the impact these executive orders are having
on research funding in general.
Right, because it's not just about who gets hired,
who gets fired, or what kind of language
is allowed on websites, right?
It's about the financial resources
that make scientific research possible
and how these actions are creating a domino effect
that could have lasting consequences.
Yeah, and nowhere is this more apparent than with the NIH
and their decision to slash overhead payments for research.
I mean, this is sparked outrage, legal challenges.
Yeah, it's a huge deal.
We're talking about the NIH.
The powerhouse of medical research.
Exactly.
And they're saying, we're cutting the funds
that help keep your labs running
and pay the people who support your groundbreaking discoveries.
Yeah, like pulling the rug out from under their feet.
Exactly.
So to understand how big this decision is,
we need to look at what these overhead payments,
they also call them indirect costs, actually cover.
Yeah, I think we need to break this down
because when most people hear the word research,
they think about scientists and lab coats doing experiments.
They don't always consider the support system,
the behind the scenes work,
that makes all that research possible.
Exactly.
Indirect costs cover a whole range of expenses,
things like keeping those laboratories up to date,
providing services for students,
covering all the administrative costs
that go with managing grants,
and of course, paying the salaries of the staff
who keep these research engines running.
Yeah, so it's not just about the scientists themselves,
it's about the whole ecosystem
that allows for scientific discoveries.
Exactly, and that ecosystem is in trouble right now.
The NIH is going to reduce the indirect cost rate
to a measly 15%.
So institutions are having to make tough choices
that could affect the future of research for a long time.
We're already seeing universities struggling
with potential layoffs,
having to pause clinical trials,
and research projects getting disrupted.
So it's a chain reaction,
basically jeopardizing the very foundation
of scientific research.
Exactly, and it's not just about the research,
what about tuition?
Right, tuition.
If universities have to figure out
how to make up for all this lost funding,
they might just have to raise tuition to fill the gap.
Yeah, and then students end up
footing the bill for decisions made in Washington.
It's really concerning,
so we've got researchers being let go,
vital programs shutting down,
institutions struggling to keep the lights on,
and now the possibility of tuition
increases looming over students.
It's kind of a bleak picture, isn't it?
It is, but you know, as we said before,
this isn't a done deal yet.
They're still pushback, they're still hope for change.
This decision hasn't gone unchallenged.
That's good to hear.
We're seeing a lot of different responses,
legal challenges, members of Congress
from both sides of the aisle are speaking up.
So it's not just scientists raising their voices,
it's lawmakers too.
They're starting to understand
the damage these cuts could do.
It's good that it's becoming a bigger conversation.
I think people are realizing that
science is not something that happens in a vacuum.
It's tied to our society, our economy, our daily lives.
You start pulling those threads
like these executive orders seem to be doing,
and the whole thing might unravel.
That's a great analogy.
It shows how these actions have consequences
that go well beyond the scientific community.
It affects the economy, our health,
and in the end, our future.
But before we get too bogged down
in all this doom and gloom,
let's shift gears a bit and talk about something
a little more, well, peculiar.
Let's talk about Elon Musk
and this thing called the Department of Government Efficiency.
Dude.
Dogue.
This is where things get a little interesting.
Yeah, this is a strange turn of events
that's really got people talking,
especially in the science world.
You've got Elon Musk, Mr. SpaceX,
now in charge of finding ways to cut government spending.
On the surface, it sounds fine.
Who doesn't want the government to be more efficient?
Right, but it's the potential consequences
that are making people uncomfortable.
We're talking about possible conflicts of interest,
worries about data security,
just a general unease about how this will all play out.
Right, and I think it's really important
to understand why these concerns are so widespread.
First of all, there's Elon Musk's connection to SpaceX,
a company that relies heavily on government contracts,
especially from NASA and you guessed it, NOAA.
Oh, wow.
Now he's the one reviewing the budgets and contracts
of those same agencies.
Like asking the Fox to guard the hen house.
And to add to that, there's the question of data access.
I mean, Musk now has access
to a ton of sensitive information.
Like what?
Like data on people who receive
federal research grants, contractors,
you name it, we're talking social security numbers,
tax returns, even details
about how grant money is paid out.
That's a lot of sensitive information
to be handing over to, well, let's not forget
the head of a private company.
Exactly, and it raises questions about data security
and potential conflicts of interest.
It's like giving someone the keys to the kingdom.
And who knows, they might decide to remodel the castle
to their liking without much thought
for the people already living there.
It's a scenario that's making a lot of people
in the scientific community very nervous.
Yeah.
And to add that to all these sudden
and seemingly random firings that have happened,
it creates this feeling of unease,
uncertainty about what's next.
Absolutely, there's no transparency, no clear plan.
It feels like decisions are being made impulsively
without thinking about the long-term effects.
That's never a good way to make policy,
especially when it comes to something as important as science.
But as they say, for every action, there's a reaction.
And in this case, the reaction is loud and clear.
The scientific community is not gonna just sit back and watch.
They're fighting back, protesting,
and making a stand for the importance of science.
It's really inspiring to see how everyone is coming together
to protect their work and the whole idea
of using evidence to make policy.
I agree, it's not just talk either.
They're taking action.
We're seeing the March for Science movement coming back.
Really?
It first appeared when we faced similar problems
during the previous administration.
These marches bring scientists and everyday people together
to advocate for science.
They're demanding that policymakers use evidence,
not ideology, to make decisions.
It's amazing to see scientists, students, everyone,
all united by their love for science
and their commitment to making sure
it has a voice in our future.
Science isn't just for scientists, it's for everyone.
It really is, and this is a multifaceted effort.
It's not just marches.
There are also legal challenges, advocacy work.
Unions and state attorneys general are filing lawsuits.
To try to stop the firings.
To stop the firings, and also to challenge the legality
of these executive orders.
So it's a two pronged attack.
Grassroots activism and legal action,
all aimed at pushing back and safeguarding
scientific research.
Exactly, and there's a very human side to this too.
Support groups are popping up.
They're formed by scientists who've been fired.
They offer help to those who are now jobless
and unsure of their future.
It's amazing to see how the scientific community
is supporting each other during these tough times.
They're sharing information, resources, legal advice.
It really shows that even when things are tough,
collaboration and support can shine through.
It really speaks to the resilience
of the scientific community.
These support groups aren't just about emotional support.
They're also exploring class action lawsuits.
To hold those responsible for these damaging actions
accountable.
So it's a David Goliath situation, but you know what?
Sometimes David wins.
And in this case, David has truth, evidence,
and the beliefs that science makes humanity
better on his side.
It's a fight worth having.
It's a reminder that even when things seem impossible,
human resilience, innovation, and working together can prevail.
Well said.
So we've covered a lot of ground today, these executive
orders, the personal stories, the inspiring examples
of resilience.
Yeah.
But our journey doesn't end here.
No, it doesn't.
Stay tuned.
Absolutely.
Welcome back to Meteorology Matters.
You guys ready for more?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
There's still so much to unpack.
We've only just scratched the surface
of how these executive orders are changing things for science.
Yeah, for sure.
And in this part, I really want to focus
on the financial pressure these actions are
putting on research institutions.
We talked about it a little bit earlier.
But I think we need to dig deeper
into what the NIH's decision to cut overhead payments
for research really means.
Yeah, it's a huge deal.
It's sent shock waves through the research world.
It's not just about tightening bouts.
It's like they're trying to take apart the whole support
system for scientific research.
Remember those indirect costs we talked about?
Yeah.
There's so much more than most people realize.
Absolutely.
I mean, think about it.
You have a state-of-the-art research lab.
You need specialized equipment, train technicians, tons
of supplies.
Oh yeah.
And then you've got administrative costs
for managing grants, making sure you're following all the rules.
Uh-huh.
And let's not forget about all the support services
that students need.
All that's covered by indirect costs.
And it's all vital for keeping research going.
Now the NIH is slashing these payments.
And research institutions are in a financial crisis.
They're expecting a car to run perfectly without taking care
of the engine, the transmission, even the tires.
Exactly.
And the consequences could be huge.
Universities might have to lay off staff,
which means fewer brilliant people working
on important discoveries.
Clinical trials might be put on hold,
delaying new treatments and cures.
Research projects that have been going on for years
could be disrupted.
All that valuable data and knowledge just lost.
And it doesn't stop there, right?
What about tuition?
Yeah, that's a big concern.
Universities need to make up for the money they've lost.
So they might have no choice but to raise tuition.
And who pays for that?
The students, of course.
Especially students from families that are already
struggling to pay for college.
It creates a terrible cycle.
You cut funding for research.
It leads to higher tuition, which
makes college less accessible.
And that limits the number of talented people
who can contribute to science in the future.
It's a worrying thought.
But as we said before, this isn't the end of the story.
There's pushback happening.
More and more people are speaking out against these cuts.
Scientists, university leaders, even lawmakers.
It's encouraging to see everyone coming together like this.
Absolutely.
It's important to remember that this isn't just about science.
It's about protecting the future of innovation, progress,
and our well-being as a whole.
Exactly.
Science isn't some far-off thing happening in a lab
somewhere.
It's the foundation for so much that improves our lives.
The medicines we take, the technologies we use,
even our understanding of the world around us.
But we've painted a pretty grim picture so far.
I think it's time to focus on what gives us hope.
What makes us optimistic, despite all of this?
I like that.
So where do we find these reasons for hope?
What makes us think that science will not just survive this,
but come out even stronger?
Right.
I think we can start with the incredible resilience
of the scientific community.
I mean, throughout history, scientists
have faced setbacks, skepticism, even outright hostility.
Oh, absolutely.
Think about Galileo.
Yeah.
He was condemned, you're saying, the Earth revolves
around the sun.
Or Ignat Simmelweis, the doctor who's
ridiculed for suggesting hand washing to prevent diseases.
Exactly.
But despite all that, scientists have always kept going.
They've kept asking questions, challenging the status quo,
and pushing the boundaries of what we know.
That spirit of inquiry, that constant search
for understanding, it's at the very core of science.
It's like this unstoppable force, isn't it?
It's really amazing to see that same spirit today,
driving scientists to find ways to adapt and collaborate,
even when things are tough.
I agree, they're pooling resources,
building new partnerships, looking for different ways
to get funding.
It really shows their creativity and determination.
And it reminds us that sometimes limitations
can lead to incredible new ideas.
It's like they see necessity as the mother of invention.
You put constraints on scientists,
and they find clever ways to work around them.
We're seeing that happen right now.
And it's not just established scientists, either.
The younger generation, students, and early career
scientists are stepping up, too.
They're speaking out, getting involved in politics,
and making their voices heard.
That's fantastic.
It's so great to see this new generation of scientists,
not just pursuing knowledge, but also defending it,
and making sure it has a role in shaping our future.
They're realizing that science isn't just
about what happens in a lab.
It's about how those discoveries are
used to create policies, solutions, and a better world.
They get it.
They're inheriting a world with a lot of complex problems.
Climate change, pandemics, ethical questions
about new technologies.
They understand that science isn't just a subject in school.
It's a crucial tool for understanding and solving
those problems.
It's empowering to see them taking ownership
of finding solutions, not just inheriting the problems.
They're not afraid to get political.
They're advocating for policies based on evidence
and holding those in power accountable.
It gives me a lot of hope for the future of science.
It feels like the torch is being passed
to a generation that's both passionate and practical.
It's a reason to be optimistic, that's for sure.
And it's not just the younger generation.
I think even the general public has a renewed appreciation
for science these days.
Yeah, I've noticed that too.
I think the pandemic, with all its uncertainty
and complexity, really highlighted
the importance of science.
Right.
Having experts we can trust making decisions
based on evidence.
Yeah, and the role science plays in keeping us healthy and safe.
It was like a wake-up call for the whole world,
reminding us that we can't take science for granted.
We need to support it, invest in it,
and trust that it can help us navigate these increasingly
complex times.
Absolutely.
Science isn't about dogma or ideology.
No.
It's a process, a way of asking questions, testing ideas,
and constantly learning from new evidence.
It's about being OK with not knowing everything,
admitting what we don't know, and being open to new ideas
and data.
And in a world full of misinformation, division,
and mistrust, that scientific approach, that commitment
to evidence, is more important than ever.
It's like a guiding light in the fog,
leading us towards a more reasonable, informed,
and hopeful future.
I love that.
So while we face challenges, there's also a lot of hope.
The strength of the scientific community,
the energy of the younger generation,
the fact that the public is starting
to appreciate science more, all of these point to a future
where science not just survives, but thrives.
And it's not just about surviving, is it?
It's about using science to create a better future,
using knowledge and innovation to solve the big problems facing
humanity.
It's about creating a society where decisions
are based on evidence, where critical thinking is valued,
and where everyone benefits from the pursuit of knowledge.
That's the goal.
And while there are no guarantees,
we can't give up hope.
The scientific spirit, that human desire
to understand the world around us, it's a powerful force.
It's the force that has driven progress throughout history.
It's led to countless discoveries, innovations,
and improvements in our lives.
And it will continue to shape our future,
whether for good or bad, depending
on the choices we make today.
So true.
The future isn't set in stone.
It's something we create together through our actions,
our choices, and our belief in human ingenuity.
It's about understanding that science isn't just
for scientists.
It's for everyone.
It's about realizing that we all have a role to play
in shaping a future where science is valued,
and everyone benefits from it.
And that leads us to a really important question, one
that we'll discuss in more detail
in the final part of our episode.
What can we do, both individually and collectively,
to support science, to make sure it keeps moving forward,
and to ensure that our decisions as a society
are based on evidence?
It's a question worth thinking about.
It's a challenge we need to face head on.
Because at the end of the day, the future of science
isn't just about money or policies.
It's about our shared commitment to curiosity, exploration,
and the pursuit of knowledge.
It's about understanding that science isn't just
a collection of facts.
It's a way of thinking, a way of interacting with the world,
and a way to build a better future.
Welcome back to Meteorology Matters, everyone.
It's time for the final part of our exploration
of science and politics.
We've been through a whirlwind of executive orders
and budget cuts.
And we've seen how these decisions
are creating a lot of uncertainty in the scientific community.
Yeah, it's been a wild ride, for sure.
But I think it's time to shift gears a little bit.
Instead of dwelling on the problems,
let's focus on the opportunities.
Let's talk about what we can do to move forward.
I like that.
We've spent a good amount of time analyzing the challenges
and highlighting the concerns.
Now let's think about how to navigate these turbulent times.
How do we create a brighter future for science?
I think the first step is recognizing
that the future of science isn't set in stone.
It's something we build together.
Through the choices we make, the actions we take,
and our belief in human ingenuity.
It's about understanding that science isn't just
happening in labs and research papers.
It's part of our society, our economy,
our culture, and our future.
And that's why it's so important for everyone,
not just scientists, to be part of this conversation.
We need to understand what's at stake and work together
to create a future where science thrives,
where everyone benefits from it.
Absolutely.
So let's talk action.
What can we do as individuals to support science
and make sure it keeps moving forward?
Well, it can be as simple as starting a conversation.
Talk to your friends and family about the importance of science.
Share interesting articles or videos
that show how scientific research impacts our lives.
It's about raising awareness, helping people realize
that science isn't just for scientists, it's for everyone.
Exactly.
And it's not just about talking.
We can support science with our actions, too.
Donate to organizations that fund research or volunteer
at a science museum.
Right.
It's about putting your money where your mouth is
and contributing to the resources that
help make scientific discoveries happen.
And don't forget about getting involved in politics.
Let your elected officials know you care about science funding
and making decisions based on evidence.
Go to town hall meetings, participate in public forums,
make your voice heard.
It's about being an active citizen and ensuring
that science is considered when decisions are made
that affect our future.
And hey, if you're really passionate about science,
why not consider running for office yourself?
We need more scientists and science advocates
in positions of power, people who understand these issues
and can fight for solutions based on evidence.
That's a great point.
It's a call to action, a challenge to step up
and make a difference, not just for science, but for all of us.
And you don't need to have all the answers
or be a scientific expert yourself.
It's about being curious, staying informed, and speaking up
for reason and evidence, especially in a world that
sometimes seems to be leaning towards misinformation
and ideology.
So the future of science isn't something that's just
going to happen to us, right?
No, not at all.
It's something we create together.
Exactly.
Through our actions and our commitment to knowledge.
I think that's a great place to wrap up
this episode of Meteorology Matters.
I hope our listeners are leaving with a sense
of not just understanding, but also empowerment,
the feeling that they can make a difference,
that their voices count, and that together we
can create a future where science flourishes
and everyone benefits.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
And thank you to all our listeners
for joining us on this journey.
We appreciate your curiosity, your engagement,
and your passion for science.
Keep those minds questioning those hearts open,
and keep speaking up for science, for reason,
and for a brighter future for everyone.