Welcome back everybody to the deep dive.
You guys sent in some really fascinating articles
from all over the place actually.
Yeah, it seems like everyone's talking
about this Florida thing.
You have the South Florida Sun Sentinel had one.
There was one in Newsweek.
Even some industry experts are weighing in
on this whole thing.
And it looks like things could get interesting
for Florida homeowners.
So what are we diving into today?
Well, basically we're trying to figure out
what phasing out asphalt shingles
could actually mean for you
and how it all ties into this bigger picture,
you know, hurricanes and insurance down in Florida.
Right, and the insurance situation in Florida is,
well, it's pretty rough right now.
Oh yeah, it's really something.
Did you know that Floridians actually pay
the highest average premiums for property insurance
in the whole country?
It's wild, isn't it?
And you know, that's not just some random statistic.
It really shows you how big this problem is.
We're talking about climate change,
affordability, building practices.
All these things are kind of tangled up together down there.
Yeah, it's not just about roofs, is it?
So how do we even get here?
Where do we start?
I think the best place to start is with the basics.
The insurance situation in Florida is, well,
let's just say it's a mess.
Yeah, it's pretty bad.
You know you mentioned those high premiums,
that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I can imagine.
We're seeing insurance companies pulling back
from the market, premiums are skyrocketing like crazy,
and citizens' property insurance,
which is Florida's insurer of last resort,
is having to pick up the slack.
Yeah, and a big part of that risk
is because of roof damage, right?
Exactly, more frequent hurricanes,
you know they're getting stronger too,
and then you've got all this litigation
in the insurance market, it just makes it so risky
and expensive for these companies to do business there.
Right, so they're saying see ya.
Pretty much, and that leaves homeowner scrambling.
So into all of this walks Florida insurance commissioner,
Michael Jaworski, and he just drops this bomb show.
He basically says he wants to get rid of asphalt shingles,
write them out from the building codes, he said.
He certainly got everyone's attention with that one.
I mean, can he actually do that?
Well, I mean he can't just ban them outright.
Right.
But he has a lot of power, you know,
with building codes and inspections
and all those programs like those mitigation credits,
that give homeowners discounts
for making their homes tougher.
Yeah. You know, more storm resistant.
Right, right, like those impact resistant shingles.
Exactly, yeah.
So he could make it very difficult
for people to use asphalt shingles.
Yeah.
So why is he targeting them?
What's the big deal with asphalt shingles?
Well, it seems like there are a few key things going on.
First, you know, their advertises lasting 30 years.
Right, you see those 30 year warranties all the time.
Right, but the thing is,
they don't actually last that long in Florida.
The humidity just eats them up.
Hm, that makes sense.
And on top of that, they're just not as strong
as other options like metal or tile.
When a hurricane rolls through,
asphalt shingles are the first to go.
Yeah, you see those pictures of neighborhoods
after a storm and it's always those
asphalt shingles scattered everywhere.
Exactly, it's like a shingled wasteland.
And that means water damage, more insurance claims,
and higher costs for everyone.
Makes sense.
So what about metal and tile roofs then?
Are they the answer?
Well, they definitely have their advantages,
but there's a lot to unpack there.
Of course.
You know, the roofing industry
isn't just sitting back and taking this.
They're pushing back hard.
They're saying, hey, wait a minute,
properly installed asphalt shingles
can hold up just fine in a hurricane.
So they're saying it's an installation problem,
not a material problem.
Right, and they have a point.
A lot of those problems with shingles blowing off
come down to shoddy workmanship.
One article mentioned a contractor who was shocked
when insurers rejected perfectly good roofs
just because they were old.
Really, just because of age?
Yeah, and he was adamant that those roofs
were still in great shape, structurally sound,
no leaks, the whole nine yards.
But insurance companies are just like, nope, too risky.
Gotta go.
Wow, that seems a little extreme.
Right, makes you wonder if maybe the focus should be
on better enforcement of building codes
and making sure those shingles are installed
right in the first place.
Yeah, instead of just automatically blaming the material.
So it sounds like there are two sides to this story.
Definitely, it's not a simple issue.
And we haven't even gotten into the cost factor yet.
Right, because metal and tile,
while they may be more durable,
they're also a lot more expensive.
Way more expensive.
And that raises some big questions about affordability,
especially in a state like Florida
that's already grappling with a housing crisis.
If you force people to use these more expensive materials,
isn't that just gonna make housing even less affordable?
Exactly.
And then you have to think about the equity issue.
Will this just make it even harder
for lower income families to afford to live in Florida?
It's a tough balancing act for sure.
It's a really valid point.
And it kind of brings us back
to why we're doing this deep dive in the first place.
We need to really look at this from all sides
before we can say, you know, asphalt's bad
or metals the future or whatever.
Right, exactly.
So let's dive into those pricier options,
metal and tile.
What are they all about?
Are they as good as everyone's saying?
And is it really worth shelling out all that extra cash?
Okay, let's break them down one by one.
First up, metal roofs.
They seem to be getting a lot of buzz.
Yeah, for good reason.
They're known for being pretty tough,
long lifespan, amazing wind resistance.
And get this, some of them are actually pretty affordable.
Oh really?
I always thought metal would be way more expensive.
Yeah, it can be, but you can find some metal roofs
that are pretty close to asphalt shingles
in terms of upfront cost.
Especially when you think about how much you could save
on your energy bills.
Metal roofs reflect heat, so your house stays cooler.
Oh, that's a good point.
But aren't they kind of, well, ugly?
I always picture that classic barn roof look.
Yeah, aesthetics can be a bit of a sticking point
for some people and some HOAs have rules
about what kind of roofs you can have,
so that could limit your options too.
Good old HOAs.
Always got their rules.
Okay, so what about tile roofs?
Those always seem like the ultimate interability,
like something you'd see on a castle or a Roman villa.
Yeah, you're not wrong about that.
Tile roofs are super durable,
especially the ones made from concrete or clay.
They can last for ages if you take care of them.
They're also good for fire resistance,
which is a big plus.
But they're expensive, right?
Yeah, they tend to be the most expensive option up front,
and they can be heavy too,
so you gotta make sure your house
can actually handle all that weight.
That's something to consider.
Okay, so it's definitely not as simple as saying,
asphalt's out, metal or tile is in.
There are definitely some trade-offs to weigh.
Exactly, it's about finding the right balance.
What's most important to you?
Cost, durability, how it looks, energy efficiency,
it all comes into play.
And you know what, this whole roof thing
is just one piece of a much bigger puzzle
when we're talking about Florida
and hurricanes and insurance.
Right, it's like this perfect storm
been intended of challenges down there.
Climate change, rising sea levels,
and all the crazy insurance problems
we've been talking about.
It's a whole lot to deal with.
And we have to think bigger than just switching roof types.
That might help a little, but it's not a magic solution.
We need to be looking at things like
stricter building codes, smarter land use planning,
so we're not building in risky areas,
and maybe even some totally new ways of doing insurance.
One of the articles mentioned something
called parametric insurance.
What is that all about?
Oh, that's an interesting one.
Parametric insurance is kind of a different way
of doing things.
Instead of waiting for someone to come out
and assess the damage after a storm,
these policies just pay out automatically
based on certain triggers.
Like if the wind speed hits a certain level at your house,
boom, you get paid.
No questions asked.
That sounds pretty efficient.
No waiting around for adjusters and paperwork.
Exactly.
It could speed things up a lot,
both for homeowners and insurance companies,
but there are still some kinks to work out.
Like how do you decide what those triggers should be?
And what if you have a ton of damage
that's not directly related to the trigger?
Hmm, yeah, those are good points.
It sounds promising, but there's still some work to be done.
Definitely.
But it's a good example of how we need to be thinking
outside the box when it comes to climate change
and insurance.
Now, remember that bill we talked about earlier?
The one that would basically turn citizens insurance
into a wind-only insurer.
Oh yeah, right, split in the coverage.
Private insurers would handle things like fire and theft,
and citizens would just focus on hurricane damage.
Is that even realistic?
It's definitely a bold idea.
Some people love it, some people hate it.
Those who like it say it could make things more stable.
You know, shrink citizens risk and encourage other insurers
to offer better rates for the non-wind stuff.
The idea is if they know they're not
on the hook for a mega hurricane,
they'll be more willing to play ball.
I can see that, but what about citizens?
Wouldn't that put a ton of pressure on them
if a major hurricane hits?
That's the biggest concern for sure.
You're talking about potentially millions of homes
relying on them for wind coverage.
A big hurricane could be a financial nightmare.
And what about people in high-risk areas?
What if they can't find affordable coverage
for those non-wind things from the private insurers?
Are they just out of luck?
That's a really good point,
and it shows you how these big changes
can have all sorts of unintended consequences.
We have to be really careful and think everything through
before making these kind of big decisions.
It seems like this whole situation
is like walking a tightrope,
trying to balance risk and affordability,
and making sure everyone is protected.
And all while the climate is changing
and the insurance market is going crazy, it's a lot.
You said it.
There are no easy answers here.
It's kind of crazy to think about,
but this whole mess in Florida could be a preview
of what's coming for the rest of the country.
As climate change gets worse,
we're gonna see more intense storms,
higher sea levels, and all those same insurance problems
are probably gonna start popping up
in other coastal areas too.
Yeah, that's not exactly a happy thought.
So is there anything we can learn
from what's going on in Florida?
Are there any solutions out there
that could help us deal with these risks?
Oh, absolutely.
This whole situation is pushing everyone
to be more creative,
with building technology and insurance models.
I think we're gonna see some really cool solutions
come out of this.
Imagine if this whole debate about stronger roofs
ends up leading to some amazing new roofing material
that's both super tough and affordable.
Right, that would be a total game changer,
not just for Florida, but for the whole country really.
Exactly, and it might not even be
a totally new material, right?
It could be some new way of installing shingles
or some kind of reinforcement system, who knows?
But I think we're gonna see some big innovations
in the next few years.
I like the way you're thinking.
So it's not just about the materials themselves, right?
Yeah.
Like we could see some big changes
in how insurance works too.
Oh yeah, for sure.
Remember we talked about parametric insurance earlier?
That could become a lot more common,
especially for these climate related risks.
Right, so instead of waiting around
for an adjuster to show up,
you just get paid automatically
if the wind speed hits a certain level.
Exactly, it could really make a difference
for people who need to get back on their feet quickly
after a disaster.
Well, this has been a wild ride.
I had no idea that something as basic as roofing
could lead to such a big discussion
about climate change, insurance, affordability,
even social justice.
It's pretty mind blowing when you think about it.
Yeah, it really shows you how everything's connected, right?
Like even the roof over our heads
is tied to all these bigger issues.
I definitely have a much better understanding
of what's happening down in Florida
and just how complicated this whole thing is.
Well, that's what we're here for, right?
To dive deep and really try to understand
the nuances of these issues.
Exactly, and I think you've done a fantastic job
of breaking it all down for us.
Thanks so much for joining us on the deep dive.
I know our listeners are gonna appreciate all these insights.
It's been my pleasure.
Always happy to talk about this stuff.
And for everyone listening out there,
we hope you'll keep exploring these important topics.
Until next time, keep diving deep.