1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,160 All right, welcome back everyone for another deep dive. 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,600 Today, we're gonna be looking at something pretty complex. 3 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,920 We're diving into the potential impacts 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,960 of a second Trump term, specifically on science in the US. 5 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,760 So to do that, we've got a whole stack of articles. 6 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,920 We've got nature, we've got the hill, 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:20,920 inside higher ed, aip.org, even NPR has some thoughts on this. 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,640 And from reading through these sources, 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,520 a few really interesting themes have popped up. 10 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,920 I think there's a lot of concern about funding cuts, 11 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,680 some anxieties about specific cabinet appointments, 12 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,480 and this big question of how international collaboration 13 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:38,040 might fare, and well, a pretty politically charged climate. 14 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,840 To help us unpack all of this, we've got our expert here, 15 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,600 whose insights on science policy are just invaluable. 16 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:44,440 Yeah, well, thank you. 17 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,480 Especially given the complexities of this topic. 18 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:48,160 It's certainly a fascinating issue. 19 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:50,120 There are a lot of facets to it for sure. 20 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,040 The intersection of science and politics 21 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,080 always brings its own set of challenges. 22 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:54,960 Yeah, no, absolutely. 23 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:55,800 I think it'd be good to start it. 24 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,000 It would be good to have kind of a quick recap 25 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,920 of Trump's first term. 26 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,760 I remember being a bit of a roller coaster ride, 27 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,800 nature, for example, they point out those attempts 28 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,000 to slash research funding for the NIH and NSF. 29 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,200 Now those are pretty significant agencies 30 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,080 in the science world. 31 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,040 Yes, absolutely. 32 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,760 Those proposed cuts, although ultimately rejected 33 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,000 by Congress, really sent a strong signal 34 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,560 about the administration's priorities. 35 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,200 And then there was the China Initiative. 36 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,520 Oh yeah, inside higher ed brought that up as well. 37 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,040 And they were suggesting that it created 38 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,000 this real sense of anxiety, 39 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,680 especially around research security. 40 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,600 Yes, the initiative was intended 41 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,160 to safeguard US interests in a research and technology. 42 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:37,480 But it faced a lot of criticism. 43 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,160 It was criticized for unfairly targeting researchers, 44 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,800 specifically researchers of Chinese descent, 45 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,800 and really fostered this climate of suspicion 46 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,040 within academic institutions. 47 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,120 Absolutely, and we can't forget, of course, 48 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,560 Trump pulling the US out of the Paris Agreement. 49 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,680 The Hill highlighted that as a major international concern. 50 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,000 It put the administration's stance on climate change, 51 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,160 front and center, really. 52 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,880 Yeah, it signaled a real departure 53 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,960 from the global consensus on climate action. 54 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,000 That agreement had been such a major step 55 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,640 towards international collaboration 56 00:02:09,640 --> 00:02:12,040 on this really critical issue of climate change. 57 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,040 Yeah, and then, of course, the kind of outfit in the room, 58 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,800 the COVID-19 pandemic, and the administration's response. 59 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,080 That period really brought the tension 60 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,640 between science and politics to the forefront. 61 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:26,600 The administration's approach sometimes 62 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,600 contradicted public health guidance, 63 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,360 and it faced a lot of scrutiny. 64 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,520 It definitely felt like a very turbulent time for science. 65 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:34,360 But I think it's interesting 66 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,200 how the scientific community reacted to that. 67 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,880 Oh, absolutely, we saw remarkable resilience. 68 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,520 Researchers mobilized to communicate their findings. 69 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,240 They advocated for funding, 70 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,280 and really pushed back against policies 71 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,360 that were deemed detrimental to scientific progress. 72 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,880 So it was almost maybe a galvanizing experience. 73 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,920 Like it forced greater awareness of the need for scientists 74 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:57,520 to be involved in policy and public discourse. 75 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,400 It certainly highlighted the importance 76 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,960 of scientists engaging beyond the lab, 77 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,560 not just staying in their research silos. 78 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,320 Now, as we look towards a potential second term, 79 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,800 these articles are raising some new concerns. 80 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,320 There are definitely anxieties bubbling up. 81 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:13,680 Yeah, let's dig into those. 82 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,440 What are some of these anxiety, 83 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,280 like these sources are flagging? 84 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:18,720 So one prominent concern 85 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,160 revolves around the potential impact 86 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,960 of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s appointment. 87 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,840 The Hill is particularly worried 88 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,400 about his stance on vaccines. 89 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,480 Nature goes so far as to call his potential influence 90 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,440 especially dangerous, 91 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,600 especially for low income countries 92 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,360 that are dependent on organizations 93 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,240 like the World Health Organization. 94 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,760 Absolutely, another area of concern is research security. 95 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,200 Inside higher ed suggests that we might see 96 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,880 further restrictions on international collaborations, 97 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:49,240 especially with China. 98 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,200 This is interesting because NPR actually focus on 99 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,240 how much the US relies on foreign talent, 100 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:56,760 specifically in STEM fields. 101 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,160 They discussed the H-1B visa program 102 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,880 and how those visas often used to recruit. 103 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,520 Top scientists and engineers were a target 104 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:05,640 during Trump's first term. 105 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,720 Yes, that reliance on foreign talent. 106 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,920 And US science is pretty significant. 107 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,720 Restricting access to that talent pool 108 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,000 could have a real impact on American research and innovation. 109 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,520 So it sets up this tension 110 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,160 between maintaining scientific openness 111 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,920 and addressing these concerns about national security. 112 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,920 What else are these sources worried about? 113 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,080 A significant concern is the possibility 114 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,280 of deeper budget cuts to science agencies. 115 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:31,000 Inside higher ed suggests 116 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,000 that the National Science Foundation in particular 117 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,080 might face something like an 8% reduction. 118 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,400 An AIP.org raises the possibility of some agencies 119 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,600 like NOAA facing significant restructuring 120 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,680 or even potentially being dismantled. 121 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:44,880 It's a drastic proposal 122 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:46,840 with some potentially significant consequences 123 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:49,880 for research and scientific advancement in those fields. 124 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,960 It seems like there's this push 125 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,360 towards a more business-oriented approach to science. 126 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,760 AIP.org points out these initiatives 127 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,280 to funnel R&D funding towards small businesses 128 00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:03,800 and to accelerate the commercialization of research. 129 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,840 It does raise a very important question. 130 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:09,400 What's the right balance between fundamental research, 131 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,800 which might not have those immediate practical applications 132 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,880 and prioritizing research that leads 133 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,040 directly to commercial outcomes? 134 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:19,960 It feels like there are a lot of different perspectives on that. 135 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:21,200 We've definitely uncovered 136 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,720 a lot of potential challenges here. 137 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,120 Are there any, I don't know, glimmers of hope 138 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,040 for action and advocacy amidst all these concerns? 139 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,880 There are definitely opportunities, 140 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,000 even in a potentially challenging landscape, 141 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,240 these sources point to several avenues 142 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,960 for action and advocacy. 143 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:37,880 Okay, let's explore those. 144 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:39,360 What are some of the ideas being floated? 145 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,640 Well, a lot of articles are emphasizing the importance 146 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,040 of direct engagement with policymakers. 147 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,720 The Hill, for instance, urges scientists to be proactive, 148 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,880 to really educate those in power 149 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,080 about the societal and economic benefits of research. 150 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,880 So it's about making the case for science, 151 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,760 demonstrating its real-world impact. 152 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,280 Exactly, and then there's the critical role 153 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:03,040 of public communication, both nature and the Hill, 154 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,520 stress the need for clear, open communication 155 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,280 to help rebuild public trust in science. 156 00:06:09,280 --> 00:06:10,960 This feels especially crucial, 157 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,880 given our current era of misinformation. 158 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,880 Absolutely, the ability to communicate 159 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:19,080 complex scientific findings, but in an accessible way, 160 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,120 an engaging way, is more vital than ever. 161 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,440 It's not just about debunking misinformation, 162 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,320 it's also about inspiring the next generation of scientists 163 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,200 and fostering a deeper appreciation for science 164 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:31,520 in our daily lives. 165 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,760 What about the role of institutions 166 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,000 beyond the federal government? 167 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,360 Several sources highlight the potential. 168 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,000 For state governments, private industries, 169 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,000 and non-governmental organizations to play a larger role, 170 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,840 especially in areas like climate change, 171 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:46,680 where federal action may be limited. 172 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,720 So it's about building those coalitions 173 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,320 and finding that common ground, 174 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,280 working together to drive that progress, 175 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:54,960 even when the federal landscape presents obstacles. 176 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,600 Precisely, collective action can be a powerful force. 177 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,560 You know, one thing that really struck me, 178 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,640 especially in that NPR article, 179 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,600 was the emphasis on international collaboration. 180 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,280 Yeah, they really underscored 181 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:09,400 how much American science relies on talent 182 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:10,360 from all over the world. 183 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:11,920 Yeah, it's not just about 184 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,960 attracting those brilliant minds to the US, 185 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,960 it's also about the partnerships and networks. 186 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,280 That form, when researchers from different countries 187 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,840 work together, science often thrives 188 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,840 when diverse perspectives and approaches converge. 189 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,240 But this idea of global scientific exchange 190 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,800 seems to be facing potential headwinds 191 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,840 under a second Trump administration. 192 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Several sources pointed to that. 193 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,040 They're raising concerns about tighter restrictions, 194 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:37,560 particularly on collaborations 195 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,880 with nations perceived as competitors, like China. 196 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,400 The Inside Higher Ed article specifically mentioned, 197 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,720 the recent expiration of the Science and Technology 198 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,960 cooperation agreement between the US and China. 199 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,080 And it's uncertain whether that will be renewed, 200 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,160 which could really signal a shift, 201 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,760 towards a more restricted approach. 202 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,320 You know, this agreement has facilitated 203 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,080 some really valuable exchanges for decades. 204 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,080 Then there's the issue of visas for foreign researchers. 205 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,680 NPR shared the story of Laili Mordazavi. 206 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,640 She's a brain scientist at Stanford. 207 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,280 And she's anxious about securing a visa to work in the US. 208 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,280 She's even considering positions in Canada or the UK. 209 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:15,560 It's a valid concern. 210 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,120 During Trump's first term, 211 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,480 there were several attempts to limit H1B visas, 212 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:21,960 which are often used to recruit 213 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,800 those highly skilled professionals, 214 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,960 including scientists and engineers. 215 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,160 It's almost like we're potentially closing the door. 216 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:29,000 Yeah. 217 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:29,880 On some of the brightest minds in the world. 218 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,680 NPR even suggested that countries like Germany 219 00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:34,960 might benefit by attracting that top talent 220 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,480 that might otherwise come to the US. 221 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,240 It's definitely a competitive global landscape for talent. 222 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,480 And policies that make it harder for foreign researchers 223 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:42,760 to work in the US, 224 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,720 could have lasting consequences for American science. 225 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,800 This tension between international collaboration 226 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,960 and those research security concerns, 227 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,960 really speaks to a broader theme we're seeing here. 228 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,800 This America first idea, 229 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,000 and how that might play out in the realm of science. 230 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,360 It's a theme that echoes throughout these articles, 231 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,400 AIP.org for example, 232 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,360 discusses proposals to withhold federal funds 233 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,040 from universities that accept money 234 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,680 from the Chinese government. 235 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:10,840 And also to restrict the number of visas granted 236 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,760 to students from what they call enemy nations. 237 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,280 It's definitely a complex issue, 238 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,320 protecting national interests, 239 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,520 and ensuring research security, 240 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,480 are valid concerns. 241 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,720 But science has historically flourished through openness, 242 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,760 collaboration, and the free exchange of ideas. 243 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,200 It's a delicate balance to strike, it really is. 244 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,520 It's America first philosophy. 245 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,960 Also seems to be influencing the conversation 246 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,720 about science funding and priorities. 247 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,800 Yes, several sources point to a potential shift 248 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,920 towards a more, you know, utilitarian, 249 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,680 results-oriented approach to science, 250 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:47,240 an emphasis on research that yields clear economic benefits. 251 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,280 And that can be swiftly commercialized. 252 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,480 Like those proposals from AIP.org, 253 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,480 to increase funding for small businesses, 254 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,640 and push for that quicker commercialization. 255 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,680 It feels like there's an underlying assumption 256 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:00,000 that market forces should be the primary drivers 257 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,480 of scientific progress. 258 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,600 It's a perspective gaining traction, for sure. 259 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,800 And it has implications for what type of research 260 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,440 gets prioritized and funded. 261 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,480 Will there be that continued support 262 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,920 for curiosity-driven research, 263 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,240 the kind that might not have those 264 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,520 immediate practical applications, 265 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,120 but could lead to groundbreaking discoveries down the line? 266 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:22,680 That's the crucial question. 267 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:24,200 Nicholas Sturks, who's the president 268 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,920 of the New York Academy of Sciences, 269 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,640 he makes a really compelling argument in the Hill 270 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,520 about the importance of foundational curiosity-driven research. 271 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,440 He uses CRISPR gene editing technology as an example. 272 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:36,760 You know, it's had a massive impact 273 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,360 on medicine and agriculture. 274 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,000 But it originated from curiosity-driven research 275 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,520 into bacterial immune systems. 276 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,320 It's a prime example of how investing 277 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:45,600 in that fundamental research, 278 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,480 even without those immediate practical applications, 279 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,640 can yield unexpected and transformative results 280 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:52,520 in the long run. 281 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,520 Yeah, it highlights the importance 282 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,000 of scientists being able to effectively communicate. 283 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,920 The value of science to policymakers and the public, 284 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,800 not just advocating for funding, 285 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,600 but explaining that process of scientific discovery, 286 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,360 helping people understand that it's not always a straight line 287 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:10,880 from research to results. 288 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:11,920 Exactly. 289 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,240 Science is a journey, not just a destination. 290 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,080 And it's a journey worth taking, 291 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,640 even when the destination is uncertain. 292 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,840 We've talked a lot about potential challenges. 293 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,680 What are some things that make you optimistic 294 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:26,200 about the future of science? 295 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,480 Even within a potentially difficult political climate? 296 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,560 Well, one encouraging aspect is that 297 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:32,840 there's this growing recognition 298 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,560 that science isn't solely a federal issue. 299 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:38,160 It permeates every facet of our lives. 300 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,640 And as we've discussed, there's this burgeoning movement 301 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,480 to engage state governments, private industries, and NGOs 302 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,640 in advancing those science-based solutions. 303 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,200 The Hill highlighted the role. 304 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:49,040 Yeah. 305 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:50,720 You know, that state governments can play 306 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,680 in tackling issues like climate change. 307 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:53,520 Absolutely. 308 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,160 And there's the power of the scientific community itself. 309 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,120 You know, nature urges scientists to speak out, 310 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,720 engage with policymakers, 311 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:05,760 and communicate their findings to the public. 312 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,640 Yeah, they call for courage, tenacity, strength, and unity. 313 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,640 A reminder that scientists have a responsibility 314 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,600 to defend the integrity of science. 315 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:14,440 Yeah. 316 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,120 And advocate for its role in society. 317 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,000 It's not just about scientists, though. 318 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,040 You know, public understanding and appreciation of science 319 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:21,880 are paramount. 320 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:22,720 Yeah. 321 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:23,960 They understand how science works. 322 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:25,680 The more they understand its importance 323 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:28,520 and how to critically evaluate scientific information, 324 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:29,960 the better equipped will all be 325 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,560 to navigate these challenges ahead. 326 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:33,600 It's about empowering individuals 327 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,080 to be those critical thinkers, to be informed citizens, 328 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,320 capable of engaging in meaningful conversations 329 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:40,520 about science. 330 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,200 We've covered a lot of ground today 331 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,760 from those potential anxieties, 332 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,000 to those opportunities for action. 333 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,000 What are your key takeaways from this deep dive? 334 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,800 I mean, what concerns you the most? 335 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,840 And what gives you hope? 336 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,720 Welcome back to our deep dive, 337 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,760 looking into the potential impacts 338 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,200 of a second Trump administration on science 339 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:00,920 here in the US. 340 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,240 We've covered a lot of ground, haven't we? 341 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,120 Unearthed potential challenges, anxieties 342 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,560 about specific policies, 343 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:07,640 but also some of those, you know, 344 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,400 glimmers of hope and opportunities for action. 345 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,840 What's so interesting to me, though, is how 346 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,080 this whole conversation about science 347 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,920 and a potential second Trump term 348 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,920 really connects to these even larger questions 349 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,720 about the role of science in society. 350 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:20,560 Absolutely. 351 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,160 I think the concerns raised in these articles, 352 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,000 you know, things like funding cuts, 353 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,360 restrictions on collaboration, 354 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,360 the politicization of certain scientific issues, 355 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,240 it all speaks to this broader tension 356 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,200 that's been simmering for a while now. 357 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,720 It's this fundamental question of, 358 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,560 who gets to decide what science is pursued 359 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:39,160 and how those decisions are made? 360 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,080 Yeah, traditionally, science has been seen 361 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,000 as this objective pursuit of knowledge, right? 362 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,080 Driven by curiosity and this desire 363 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:47,360 to understand the world, 364 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:48,840 but increasingly it's being viewed 365 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,280 through this more utilitarian lens 366 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,000 with an emphasis on its practical applications 367 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,400 and ability to drive economic growth. 368 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,680 There's this expectation for science to deliver. 369 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:01,080 Immediate solutions, right? 370 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,240 And if it doesn't, some start to question its value. 371 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:04,080 Yeah. 372 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:04,920 Whether it deserves funding. 373 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,560 It's a perspective that's gaining a lot of traction, 374 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,520 especially in a political environment, 375 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,160 where there's this pressure 376 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,200 to demonstrate those tangible results. 377 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,320 It's interesting how this tension 378 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,240 between those different views of science, 379 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,960 these to be playing out many of the issues we've discussed. 380 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,040 And you take, for example, the debate over funding 381 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,040 for basic versus applied research, 382 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,480 or even those concerns 383 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,440 about restricting international collaboration 384 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,280 for the sake of national security. 385 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,000 Absolutely, it's about finding that balance, right? 386 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,960 Between supporting scientific inquiry 387 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,600 for the sake of knowledge, 388 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,240 recognizing that potential for unexpected breakthroughs, 389 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,080 while also making sure that science 390 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,240 addresses societal needs 391 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,240 and those pressing challenges we face. 392 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,440 It's a tough balancing act for sure. 393 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,160 So where does all this leave us? 394 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:50,400 I mean, what does all of this mean 395 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,680 for the future of science in America? 396 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,640 I think these sources offer a cautionary tale. 397 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,440 They highlight those potential pitfalls, 398 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,280 but they also provide some hope, 399 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,160 suggesting ways that the scientific community 400 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,320 and their allies can navigate this evolving landscape. 401 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,400 Like by engaging with policymakers, right? 402 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,480 Forming coalitions with various stakeholders 403 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,520 and effectively communicating the value of science, 404 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,680 not just its practical applications, 405 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,960 but also its ability to deepen our understanding 406 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:16,800 of the world. 407 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,200 Exactly, and I think it's important to remember 408 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,600 that this isn't just the responsibility of scientists. 409 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,480 We all have a role to play in supporting science, 410 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,520 whether that's staying informed about scientific issues, 411 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,080 participating in those thoughtful discussions, 412 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,520 or advocating for policies 413 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,600 that promote scientific literacy 414 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,520 and investment in research. 415 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,160 As we wrap up this deep dive, 416 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,080 I wanna leave you with this question. 417 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,840 Given the challenges and opportunities we've discussed, 418 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,280 what role do you envision for yourself 419 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,800 in shaping the future of science? 420 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,160 It's definitely a question worth pondering. 421 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,040 I think the future of science 422 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,080 really rests in our collective hands. 423 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,800 That wraps up today's deep dive. 424 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,200 Huge thanks to our expert for guiding us 425 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,280 through this very intricate topic, and to you, listener. 426 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:00,640 Thank you so much for joining us 427 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,400 on this journey of exploration. 428 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,160 Keep exploring, keep questioning, 429 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:05,800 and keep the conversation going. 430 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:12,800 Until next time.