WEBVTT 00:00:08.939 --> 00:00:11.160 Well, hello and welcome to another episode of 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:13.560 Oak Hill College's Deep Roots podcast, where 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:15.980 we bring you conversations to help you build 00:00:15.980 --> 00:00:19.059 deep roots, to see you thrive in Christian life 00:00:19.059 --> 00:00:21.440 and leadership, to see the church flourish in 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:23.559 the UK and around the world. My name is Chris 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:26.320 Howells. I serve at Oak Hill College as Director 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:29.300 of Cross -Cultural Training, and I'm delighted 00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:33.619 to be joined today by Reverend Dr. Chris Wright. 00:00:33.659 --> 00:00:38.820 Chris, thank you so much for joining us. familiar 00:00:38.820 --> 00:00:42.259 with you through perhaps your preaching and teaching 00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:45.140 ministry perhaps they're former students of yours 00:00:45.140 --> 00:00:48.219 even and certainly through some of your many 00:00:48.219 --> 00:00:50.840 books but for any of us who are not familiar 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:53.460 with who you are could you give us a little snapshot 00:00:53.460 --> 00:00:56.479 of your current role and some of the journey 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:59.170 that has brought you to that Thank you, Chris. 00:00:59.409 --> 00:01:02.109 It's great to be here and having a chat. Well, 00:01:02.229 --> 00:01:04.909 the accent, by the way, in case anybody's wondering, 00:01:05.010 --> 00:01:06.569 is from Northern Ireland. That's where I was 00:01:06.569 --> 00:01:09.290 born and brought up, in Belfast. My current role 00:01:09.290 --> 00:01:12.390 is with the Langham Partnership, which is a number 00:01:12.390 --> 00:01:15.530 of ministries founded by John Stott. The word 00:01:15.530 --> 00:01:17.790 Langham simply comes from Old Souls Church, Langham 00:01:17.790 --> 00:01:20.349 Place, where he was as rector when he founded 00:01:20.349 --> 00:01:23.090 the ministries. And I've been in this role now 00:01:23.090 --> 00:01:27.370 with Langham for nearly 25 years, which is almost 00:01:27.370 --> 00:01:30.439 half my working life. A bit scary to think of. 00:01:30.939 --> 00:01:34.760 And how did I get there? Well, I did a PhD in 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:37.040 Cambridge. I was ordained in the Church of England, 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:40.760 served in a parish down in Tunbridge. Then with 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:43.260 my wife and young family, we went to India, taught 00:01:43.260 --> 00:01:45.120 there for five years, teaching the Old Testament, 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.959 and then had 13 years, 13 wonderful years at 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:51.480 All Nations Christian College, which, as you 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.459 referred to some of my students, and possibly 00:01:53.459 --> 00:01:55.299 some of them are listening if they remember me, 00:01:55.459 --> 00:01:58.099 but those were good years at All Nations up the 00:01:58.099 --> 00:02:01.079 road there at Easney. Thank you, Chris. And so 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:04.060 am I right that your role in Langham is as an 00:02:04.060 --> 00:02:07.879 ambassador, no less? Could you give us a brief 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:12.099 overview of what that entails? What is it that 00:02:12.099 --> 00:02:15.620 you are sort of seeking to achieve and foster 00:02:15.620 --> 00:02:18.599 and catalyse through that Langham movement and 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:21.620 your role there? Yes, well, Langham itself is 00:02:21.620 --> 00:02:24.400 basically ministries which are to resource and 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:28.139 serve the church outside the West. Our support 00:02:28.139 --> 00:02:30.560 and our funding comes from Western countries 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.960 mostly at the moment, like UK and the US, Australia 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.199 and so on. But our ministries are in Africa, 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.939 Asia, Latin America, the Middle East, the Pacific, 00:02:39.180 --> 00:02:41.830 Caribbean. The global church, as some people 00:02:41.830 --> 00:02:45.270 call it, or the majority world. And the ministries 00:02:45.270 --> 00:02:47.830 are, first of all, Langham Scholarships, which 00:02:47.830 --> 00:02:50.990 are for people to do a PhD and then return to 00:02:50.990 --> 00:02:53.210 teach in seminary. So it's for theological education 00:02:53.210 --> 00:02:56.830 and is strengthening that all around the world. 00:02:56.889 --> 00:02:59.490 There are now nearly 400 Langham scholars teaching 00:02:59.490 --> 00:03:02.310 around the world. And then the second program 00:03:02.310 --> 00:03:04.770 is Langham Literature, which is not just providing 00:03:04.770 --> 00:03:06.990 books for seminaries and libraries, but also 00:03:06.990 --> 00:03:10.319 now is a major publisher of books by... majority 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:12.939 world authors so that the western church can 00:03:12.939 --> 00:03:16.000 hear the voice of the global church which is 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:18.580 considerable and then also langham preaching 00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:21.340 which is training for the skills of biblical 00:03:21.340 --> 00:03:23.979 preaching and that's now operating in more than 00:03:23.979 --> 00:03:27.979 100 countries my role was originally to be the 00:03:27.979 --> 00:03:30.740 international director that's what john stott 00:03:30.740 --> 00:03:34.259 asked me to take on from him back in 2001 And 00:03:34.259 --> 00:03:38.180 I occupied that role, a kind of pooling the ministries 00:03:38.180 --> 00:03:41.000 together, creating some organizational structure. 00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:43.960 And I was doing that, yes, for about 20 years 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:47.819 or so. And then they have now appointed a new 00:03:47.819 --> 00:03:51.120 international director who, thankfully, is not 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.139 a Westerner. He's an Arab. He's from Lebanon. 00:03:53.819 --> 00:03:57.180 His name is Riyad Qasis, Reverend Dr. Riyad Qasis. 00:03:57.539 --> 00:03:59.919 He's the international director, but they didn't 00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:03.280 seem to want to kick me out. So they gave me 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:05.900 this title of international ambassador. I'm still 00:04:05.900 --> 00:04:08.439 part of the leadership team, but I don't have 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:10.900 to run everything. I don't have to be managing. 00:04:11.060 --> 00:04:12.400 I don't have to know everything that's going 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:16.279 on. I get to speak and write and do what I'm 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:18.519 doing now, which is tell people about the ministries. 00:04:19.370 --> 00:04:22.910 Thank you so very much. We wish you well in all 00:04:22.910 --> 00:04:24.810 that you're doing, you and your colleagues and 00:04:24.810 --> 00:04:26.509 many partners through Langham. Thank you for 00:04:26.509 --> 00:04:29.769 that ministry. One thing that we'd love to talk 00:04:29.769 --> 00:04:33.850 about today with you, Chris, is a recent... book 00:04:33.850 --> 00:04:36.430 that has been published of yours but of course 00:04:36.430 --> 00:04:38.470 in some senses it's not recent because it is 00:04:38.470 --> 00:04:42.050 the second edition that came out in late 2025 00:04:42.050 --> 00:04:46.649 of your book The Mission of God so 20 years old 00:04:46.649 --> 00:04:49.149 of course some books in the world land with a 00:04:49.149 --> 00:04:51.529 splash but the the ripples kind of fade away 00:04:51.529 --> 00:04:54.709 fairly quickly but this book is running and running 00:04:54.709 --> 00:04:57.610 isn't it could you kindly give us a a little 00:04:57.610 --> 00:05:02.120 bit of a a sense of A summary almost of what 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.500 the mission of God in all its 600 pages is about 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:08.360 a headline, so to speak, and why you think that 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:12.370 it still resonates so much 20 years later. Thank 00:05:12.370 --> 00:05:15.250 you, yes. Yes, the title of the book is The Mission 00:05:15.250 --> 00:05:18.629 of God. The subtitle is Unlocking the Bible's 00:05:18.629 --> 00:05:21.509 Grand Narrative, which sort of says what it's 00:05:21.509 --> 00:05:24.370 trying to do. Because The Mission of God is not 00:05:24.370 --> 00:05:27.709 600 pages of my book, but whatever number of 00:05:27.709 --> 00:05:29.990 pages are in the Bible, depending on which language 00:05:29.990 --> 00:05:33.870 it's in. Because the book really originated from 00:05:33.870 --> 00:05:35.910 my teaching at All Nations Christian College. 00:05:35.970 --> 00:05:38.639 That's sort of the roots of it. Because when 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:41.259 I came there after teaching in India, I inherited 00:05:41.259 --> 00:05:45.000 a course from Martin Goldsmith called The Biblical 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:48.259 Basis of Mission. And the basic idea was that 00:05:48.259 --> 00:05:50.019 all these students have come to All Nations because 00:05:50.019 --> 00:05:51.379 they're committed to mission. They know what 00:05:51.379 --> 00:05:54.339 mission is, but they just need some Bible verses 00:05:54.339 --> 00:05:56.779 and Bible teaching to sort of support the idea 00:05:56.779 --> 00:06:00.360 of Christian mission. And what I told them after 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:02.139 a while of teaching, I said, what I really would 00:06:02.139 --> 00:06:05.420 like to rename this course as the missional basis 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:09.339 of the Bible. Because it's not that we do mission 00:06:09.339 --> 00:06:11.480 and we've got a few Bible verses to support it, 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:14.879 but rather that God is on mission and the whole 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:19.480 Bible is the record and the tool and the evidence, 00:06:19.660 --> 00:06:23.139 the product. of the God who reveals himself in 00:06:23.139 --> 00:06:26.160 the Bible. The God of the Bible is the God who 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:28.279 has a mission, he has a purpose, he has a plan, 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:32.000 which Paul tells us in Ephesians 1 verses 9 and 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.699 10 is to bring all things in the whole creation, 00:06:34.939 --> 00:06:37.699 all things in heaven and earth into unity under 00:06:37.699 --> 00:06:41.240 Christ and through Christ. And that creation 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:45.279 -wide, nation -wide vision of God's purpose in 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:48.800 Christ for the world is what drives the Bible 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:51.920 story forward. And I wanted this book, in a sense, 00:06:51.939 --> 00:06:54.740 to help people to see that as they read the Bible, 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:58.339 they are entering into a narrative, a story, 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:01.019 which is the story of God, the true story of 00:07:01.019 --> 00:07:03.439 the universe. So that's the reason for the title. 00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:06.120 And that's what the book is trying to do in a 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:09.560 fairly lengthy way. But it's because the Bible 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:11.860 is a pretty big book. And we've got a pretty 00:07:11.860 --> 00:07:15.680 big gospel and a very big God. So I don't apologize 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:18.459 for the fact that it's a big book. Thank you. 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:22.600 The sort of theological phraseology that's often 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:25.579 associated with what you've just outlined is 00:07:25.579 --> 00:07:28.660 often called a missional hermeneutic or sometimes 00:07:28.660 --> 00:07:31.579 missiological hermeneutic. I think many of our 00:07:31.579 --> 00:07:34.720 listeners will be familiar with the idea of hermeneutics, 00:07:34.779 --> 00:07:37.819 our interpretation, our systems of interpretation 00:07:37.819 --> 00:07:39.939 of the scriptures. And many of our listeners 00:07:39.939 --> 00:07:42.540 will, of course, be familiar with the basic paradigm 00:07:42.540 --> 00:07:45.899 of mission and God's mission. And yet those two 00:07:45.899 --> 00:07:48.810 things are rarely placed together. as you did 00:07:48.810 --> 00:07:51.910 in the book, The Mission of God, and as you've 00:07:51.910 --> 00:07:54.930 just outlined. And so what does it look like 00:07:54.930 --> 00:07:58.850 to place those two things together? If we have 00:07:58.850 --> 00:08:02.430 God's mission, how does that relate to how we 00:08:02.430 --> 00:08:04.170 read and teach and understand the scriptures? 00:08:05.389 --> 00:08:07.730 Thank you. Yes, well, that phrase, missional 00:08:07.730 --> 00:08:10.810 hermeneutics, yeah, it's probably maybe 20, 30 00:08:10.810 --> 00:08:14.170 years old. I only came across it after I'd started 00:08:14.170 --> 00:08:17.430 writing this book. I was just trying to think 00:08:17.430 --> 00:08:20.490 of what does it mean to read the Bible from the 00:08:20.490 --> 00:08:23.629 perspective of looking at everything in the Bible 00:08:23.629 --> 00:08:26.790 in the light of the God who reveals himself there 00:08:26.790 --> 00:08:29.730 as the God with a plan and a purpose, and a God 00:08:29.730 --> 00:08:32.210 who then creates a people. I mean, the point 00:08:32.210 --> 00:08:35.700 is... We have a mission. We are a people of purpose. 00:08:36.259 --> 00:08:39.620 And when I say we, I don't just mean us as Christians. 00:08:39.980 --> 00:08:42.519 I mean the people of God who fill the pages of 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:45.980 the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. So if we're 00:08:45.980 --> 00:08:50.299 going to think about who we are as Old Testament 00:08:50.299 --> 00:08:52.799 Israel, as the people of God in the Messiah of 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:54.759 Israel, the people who are followers of Jesus. 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:57.340 We have to think of ourselves as those who are 00:08:57.340 --> 00:09:00.620 called to participate in the plan and purpose 00:09:00.620 --> 00:09:04.000 of God. So we have a mission because God is on 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.179 mission. And that's a fundamental point of the 00:09:06.179 --> 00:09:08.799 book. So therefore, whenever we're reading the 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:11.659 Bible to ask ourselves, what should we do? How 00:09:11.659 --> 00:09:14.399 should we live? What does God want of us? What 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.440 does God think of the rest of the world? What 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:19.090 is his purpose for the nations? All of those 00:09:19.090 --> 00:09:22.590 questions we ask from the perspective of this 00:09:22.590 --> 00:09:24.450 is the God who's revealing himself as being on 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:28.850 mission. It's a missional way of thinking. I 00:09:28.850 --> 00:09:31.750 think with the church sometimes we don't ask 00:09:31.750 --> 00:09:35.570 that question. Not just who are we as a church 00:09:35.570 --> 00:09:39.309 and who's allowed to belong and are you Presbyterian 00:09:39.309 --> 00:09:42.029 or Anglican and are you church down the road 00:09:42.029 --> 00:09:45.470 or the church that we don't go to. We often ask 00:09:45.470 --> 00:09:47.809 about the church in those kind of definitional 00:09:47.809 --> 00:09:50.870 terms and forget to ask the more fundamental 00:09:50.870 --> 00:09:53.809 question, which is, why is there a church at 00:09:53.809 --> 00:09:56.750 all? Not just who are we, but what are we here 00:09:56.750 --> 00:09:59.990 for? What's our reason for existence? I mean, 00:10:00.009 --> 00:10:03.830 even in the secular world, we find now that more 00:10:03.830 --> 00:10:07.090 and more institutions and organisations are... 00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:10.679 creating so -called mission statements. I've 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:12.639 even seen one in a restaurant. You know, our 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:15.399 mission is, and then they say they're going to 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:17.639 feed you the best food. And you'd have thought, 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:19.679 we ought to know what the mission of a restaurant 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.850 is. But if you didn't... It might be helpful 00:10:22.850 --> 00:10:24.929 if you come from Mars and you don't know what 00:10:24.929 --> 00:10:26.350 a restaurant is, you see their mission. This 00:10:26.350 --> 00:10:28.210 is why we're here. We're on this street because 00:10:28.210 --> 00:10:30.649 we're going to provide food. So we should be 00:10:30.649 --> 00:10:32.389 asking those kind of questions about ourselves. 00:10:32.490 --> 00:10:35.850 What are we here for? And that's not just that 00:10:35.850 --> 00:10:39.049 we're here to come to church on Sunday in order 00:10:39.049 --> 00:10:40.850 that we can send a few people out to foreign 00:10:40.850 --> 00:10:43.590 countries as missionaries and then say, that's 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:46.309 mission. They're doing it for us and we're paying 00:10:46.309 --> 00:10:49.250 them. But rather we ask, yeah, but... Who are 00:10:49.250 --> 00:10:51.850 we? Are we non -mission partners? Are we not 00:10:51.850 --> 00:10:54.669 involved? Yes, we are. Because if we're in Christ, 00:10:54.850 --> 00:10:56.710 we are disciples of the one who said, now look, 00:10:56.850 --> 00:10:59.269 I am sending you into the world as the Father 00:10:59.269 --> 00:11:02.309 sent me into the world, so go. Go and make disciples 00:11:02.309 --> 00:11:05.990 of the nations. So that's a missional hermeneutic. 00:11:06.090 --> 00:11:09.269 It's a way of reading and thinking about the 00:11:09.269 --> 00:11:12.970 Bible, which I think goes along the grain of 00:11:12.970 --> 00:11:14.750 the Bible. In other words, I think it's appropriate. 00:11:14.850 --> 00:11:18.259 It's not an extraneous question. trying to relate 00:11:18.259 --> 00:11:21.299 the bible to some other thing it's trying to 00:11:21.299 --> 00:11:24.220 see the line and the purpose of the story itself 00:11:24.220 --> 00:11:28.759 that this is what it's all about so chris if 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:32.580 one were to um want to do a bible study about 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:37.159 marriage for example we would no doubt use both 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:40.309 old and new testaments there'd be some key verses 00:11:40.309 --> 00:11:44.090 that we pick out and we'd sort of put them together 00:11:44.090 --> 00:11:48.289 into a coherent topic, topical teaching about 00:11:48.289 --> 00:11:50.389 marriage. And that would be a perfectly valid 00:11:50.389 --> 00:11:54.049 thing to do. But if I'm hearing you, what you're 00:11:54.049 --> 00:11:56.870 suggesting is that actually mission is not quite 00:11:56.870 --> 00:11:59.629 the same and it's not simply a theme that we 00:11:59.629 --> 00:12:02.690 can extract from the scriptures as legitimate 00:12:02.690 --> 00:12:05.610 a practice as that might be, but actually that 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:08.990 it is more than that. It is a lens by which we... 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.500 can or should understand and interpret the scriptures 00:12:12.500 --> 00:12:16.279 if if that's the case what um what implications 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:20.259 might that have for a local church perhaps even 00:12:20.259 --> 00:12:23.220 a local church leader who might be used to a 00:12:23.220 --> 00:12:27.759 once a year mission sunday for example um but 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:31.269 actually What does it look like to really integrate 00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:33.850 mission much more widely into our reading of 00:12:33.850 --> 00:12:35.629 the scriptures? Yeah, thank you. That's a very 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:39.070 good way of asking the question. Because, as 00:12:39.070 --> 00:12:41.629 you say, you could speak about there is a biblical 00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:44.610 doctrine of marriage, but you wouldn't talk about 00:12:44.610 --> 00:12:49.190 a marital basis of the Bible. I'm trying to say 00:12:49.190 --> 00:12:51.590 it's not just that there is a biblical doctrine 00:12:51.590 --> 00:12:54.750 of mission, but there is a missional basis of 00:12:54.750 --> 00:12:56.909 the Bible, which is a much bigger claim. I quite 00:12:56.909 --> 00:13:00.679 agree. I like your illustration of a lens. In 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.460 other words, what it's trying to say is if the 00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:06.759 God whom we meet in the Bible is the God who 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.080 reveals himself from beginning to end as a purposeful 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:11.899 God. I mean, even we meet him in the first page, 00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:15.480 Genesis 1. He is thinking, planning, deciding, 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:18.500 let's do this, let's do that, let there be. He 00:13:18.500 --> 00:13:22.299 is a God of purposeful, systematic action, which 00:13:22.299 --> 00:13:24.500 reaches a conclusion. He's evaluating it all 00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:26.620 the way through, and he comes to the answer, 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:29.100 it's very good. So here is a God who's about 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:32.100 something, and it's about the whole universe. 00:13:32.139 --> 00:13:34.980 It's not just about the rain or the weather or 00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:38.360 sex. This is a God who is... involved in the 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:40.860 whole of life, the whole of creation, for which 00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:43.799 he has a purpose. And I want to say, read the 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:48.100 Bible with that in mind, and it begins to turn 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:50.720 the sort of question we sometimes ask about the 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:53.580 Bible in a very typical, if I may say so, evangelical 00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:56.600 way that I was brought up to do, which is that 00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:58.379 you read a passage of the Bible and then you 00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:00.740 ask the question, how does that apply to my life? 00:14:02.490 --> 00:14:04.009 Please don't misunderstand me, that's a perfectly 00:14:04.009 --> 00:14:06.429 good question to ask. We should be seeking to 00:14:06.429 --> 00:14:08.789 apply the Bible. But the trouble is that that 00:14:08.789 --> 00:14:11.629 can leave the Bible very bitty. Just, here's 00:14:11.629 --> 00:14:13.509 another little bit, how does that apply? Here's 00:14:13.509 --> 00:14:15.730 another little bit, how does that apply? Here's 00:14:15.730 --> 00:14:18.210 a nice promise, here's a command, I should be 00:14:18.210 --> 00:14:22.610 doing that. And it all makes the Bible very adjectival. 00:14:22.750 --> 00:14:25.970 It has to be biblical, but the centre is still 00:14:25.970 --> 00:14:29.710 my life. I've got the Bible out there and God's 00:14:29.710 --> 00:14:31.730 out there somewhere and I want to get them into 00:14:31.730 --> 00:14:34.690 my life because my life is the center of reality 00:14:34.690 --> 00:14:37.350 and so on. And what I want to ask is the other 00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:40.149 way around. What does it mean to say it's not 00:14:40.149 --> 00:14:42.190 so much that I am applying the Bible to my life 00:14:42.190 --> 00:14:45.690 as to say, how do I apply my life into the Bible? 00:14:45.929 --> 00:14:48.529 If the Bible is reality, if this is the story 00:14:48.529 --> 00:14:52.029 of God. if this is the true story of what God 00:14:52.029 --> 00:14:54.429 is about in the world, hey, please, can I be 00:14:54.429 --> 00:14:57.830 in this? Can I be part of this? I want my life 00:14:57.830 --> 00:15:00.649 to count in this story, not just the bits of 00:15:00.649 --> 00:15:03.149 the Bible that mean something to me today, a 00:15:03.149 --> 00:15:05.429 promise I can claim or a warning or a command, 00:15:05.590 --> 00:15:08.909 but my whole life is now, in a sense, an actor, 00:15:09.129 --> 00:15:12.769 a participant in the great drama and the great 00:15:12.769 --> 00:15:14.590 story that God is leading all the way through. 00:15:14.789 --> 00:15:19.799 So I begin to see mission as meaning me, being 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:23.139 in the Bible story for God's purposes and for 00:15:23.139 --> 00:15:26.779 God's ultimate glory. And that gives great significance 00:15:26.779 --> 00:15:29.620 to my life because it means I'm not just a tiny 00:15:29.620 --> 00:15:32.320 little cog in a machine. I'm actually playing 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.940 a part in something that God is doing in the 00:15:34.940 --> 00:15:37.889 world. My life will count for him. And in today's 00:15:37.889 --> 00:15:40.190 world, where there's so much sense of meaninglessness, 00:15:40.429 --> 00:15:42.610 and especially, I think, with younger people 00:15:42.610 --> 00:15:44.450 just wondering, well, what's the point of having 00:15:44.450 --> 00:15:47.950 a life in this great space -time universe, which, 00:15:48.070 --> 00:15:51.850 you know, I'm so insignificant. And this way 00:15:51.850 --> 00:15:54.350 of looking at the Bible says, that is reality. 00:15:54.549 --> 00:15:57.549 That's God's truth. And you are significant when 00:15:57.549 --> 00:16:00.169 you plug yourself into this story and participate 00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:04.230 with God in this mission. That's a really beautiful 00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:07.769 reflection. Thank you. This is so encouraging 00:16:07.769 --> 00:16:10.669 and really delightful to hear and think about 00:16:10.669 --> 00:16:14.129 what implications it would have for us in the 00:16:14.129 --> 00:16:16.409 way we read our Bibles personally and, of course, 00:16:16.470 --> 00:16:20.009 teach and preach the Scriptures as well. Chris, 00:16:20.009 --> 00:16:23.019 there's a... A few verses from Luke's Gospel. 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:24.700 I'm actually just going to read a couple of verses 00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:27.200 very quickly, if I may. I know you're familiar 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.460 with them. It's from Jesus' post -resurrection 00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:32.740 appearance, just after he's met up with Cleopas 00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:35.500 and his friends on the road to Emmaus. And Jesus 00:16:35.500 --> 00:16:38.779 says to the disciples, This is what I told you 00:16:38.779 --> 00:16:41.620 while I was still with you. Everything must be 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:44.009 fulfilled. that is written about me in the law 00:16:44.009 --> 00:16:47.110 of Moses, the prophets and the Psalms. Then he 00:16:47.110 --> 00:16:49.509 opened their minds so that they could understand 00:16:49.509 --> 00:16:52.409 the scriptures. He told them, this is what is 00:16:52.409 --> 00:16:55.250 written. The Messiah will suffer and rise from 00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:58.950 the dead on the third day and repentance for 00:16:58.950 --> 00:17:01.149 the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his 00:17:01.149 --> 00:17:05.349 name to all nations beginning at Jerusalem. So 00:17:05.349 --> 00:17:07.470 here's this remarkable moment where the post 00:17:07.470 --> 00:17:12.079 -resurrection Jesus is opening the minds and 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:16.359 the scriptures, really, to the disciples. And 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:20.440 he points out to them that his summary of the 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:24.680 Psalms, the prophets, the law of Moses, his summary 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:28.059 is that it points to him, the Messiah. and the 00:17:28.059 --> 00:17:31.700 mission that he is calling his people into. And 00:17:31.700 --> 00:17:33.180 I think the way you've put it is that there is 00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:37.200 a messianic reading of the scriptures, but therefore 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.220 a missional reading as well that Jesus is pointing 00:17:40.220 --> 00:17:43.759 us to. Chris, could you outline a little bit 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:46.299 for us the difference between those two, how 00:17:46.299 --> 00:17:49.099 they integrate as well? And I think... Maybe 00:17:49.099 --> 00:17:51.440 we're better at one than the other. What would 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.779 your reflections be on that? Thank you. That 00:17:53.779 --> 00:17:56.059 is such a wonderful passage, isn't it? Luke 24 00:17:56.059 --> 00:17:58.160 is amazing. I mean, that's actually the second 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:00.480 lecture. That's the second Old Testament hermeneutics 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:02.839 lecture of the day, because the first is in the 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:05.299 all afternoon on the road to Emmaus with the 00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:07.859 two disciples there. And he does the same thing. 00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:10.240 How much we would love to have listened in on 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:14.170 that. And so here again is Jesus. By the way, 00:18:14.210 --> 00:18:15.990 Chris, it's one of the encouraging things for 00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:19.650 me is being an Old Testament teacher, to ask 00:18:19.650 --> 00:18:21.789 the question, how did Jesus spend the first day 00:18:21.789 --> 00:18:24.529 of his resurrection life? He spent it explaining 00:18:24.529 --> 00:18:27.089 the Old Testament. Although, of course, it wasn't 00:18:27.089 --> 00:18:28.690 known as the Old Testament. For him, it was simply 00:18:28.690 --> 00:18:30.390 the scriptures, as it was for the disciples, 00:18:30.549 --> 00:18:33.230 their scriptures. So that's the first thing to 00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:36.349 say. He is opening their minds not to know the 00:18:36.349 --> 00:18:37.789 scriptures. They already knew the scriptures. 00:18:38.130 --> 00:18:41.460 He's offering them fundamentally. A messianic, 00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:44.460 missional hermeneutic. He's saying, this is the 00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:48.599 way to understand the Scriptures. And I've often 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.359 thought if we'd been there with the disciples, 00:18:51.619 --> 00:18:53.500 we'd have had our notebooks out and we'd have 00:18:53.500 --> 00:18:56.359 been saying, excuse me, Master, where is that 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:58.480 written? This is what is written. Well, what 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.559 are you quoting? Is this Isaiah? But Jesus is 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:04.900 not quoting any particular verse. He's saying, 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.609 this is the whole Scripture. is ultimately pointing 00:19:08.609 --> 00:19:12.829 towards me as the messiah coming dying rising 00:19:12.829 --> 00:19:16.750 again tick tick tick done you know but that's 00:19:16.750 --> 00:19:19.269 not where he stops the scripture now is also 00:19:19.269 --> 00:19:21.829 saying that repentance and forgiveness of sins 00:19:21.829 --> 00:19:23.730 will be preached to all nations beginning in 00:19:23.730 --> 00:19:25.710 jerusalem and the last that he says you didn't 00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:28.529 mention it and you will be my witnesses which 00:19:28.529 --> 00:19:30.349 is almost certainly a quote from Isaiah, that 00:19:30.349 --> 00:19:32.950 one. God had said to the Israelites, you are 00:19:32.950 --> 00:19:35.450 my witnesses that I am God. Jesus says to his 00:19:35.450 --> 00:19:37.690 disciples, you will be my witnesses. Now, what's 00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:40.779 the connection between these? We are often, as 00:19:40.779 --> 00:19:43.039 you say, quite good at the messianic understanding 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:46.339 of the Old Testament because we can tick the 00:19:46.339 --> 00:19:51.319 boxes. Born in Bethlehem, tick. He's the Messiah, 00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:53.920 tick. We can connect Old Testament scriptures 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:57.839 to the identity of Jesus, but we forget, yes, 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.579 but, going back to my earlier question, who were 00:20:00.579 --> 00:20:03.630 Israel and what were they there for? What was 00:20:03.630 --> 00:20:05.910 the very reason why God created Israel in the 00:20:05.910 --> 00:20:08.509 first place? And God says that very clearly to 00:20:08.509 --> 00:20:11.369 Abraham, that through you, all nations will be 00:20:11.369 --> 00:20:13.569 blessed, through you and your descendants. So 00:20:13.569 --> 00:20:16.470 the people of Israel, one could say, had a mission. 00:20:16.650 --> 00:20:18.869 Now, it wasn't a mission to go and be missionaries 00:20:18.869 --> 00:20:21.690 to other nations. There were one or two people 00:20:21.690 --> 00:20:23.490 who think that they should have done. I'm not 00:20:23.490 --> 00:20:25.930 convinced. I don't think God meant the Israelites 00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:28.170 to go off on mission trips. Well, except for 00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:31.420 Jonah, I suppose, who was a... in the end quite 00:20:31.420 --> 00:20:33.359 a successful missionary, even a very reluctant 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.640 one, and a very embarrassed one at the end. So 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.640 it's not that God was sending the Israelites 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:40.759 out to the nations, but he says, you will be 00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:44.039 for me in the midst of the nations, my priesthood, 00:20:44.099 --> 00:20:46.740 my holy nation, you will be the people who will 00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:49.359 know the living God, and through you I will make 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:53.059 myself known to the nations. So Israel had this... 00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:56.380 mission to live as God's people for the sake 00:20:56.380 --> 00:20:58.579 ultimately of God bringing blessing to the nations. 00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:01.880 So that's why Jesus says now that the Messiah 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.400 who embodies Israel, because let's remember that 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.140 the Messiah was not just the anointed one, he's 00:21:07.140 --> 00:21:11.519 the king, he is Israel in a sense. He's sent 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.640 to Israel, but like the servant, he is the servant 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:17.220 who embodies the reality of God's people, Israel. 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.400 He has now completed the mission that God gave 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.019 to him. He's borne the sin of the world on the 00:21:23.019 --> 00:21:25.539 cross. He's defeated death. He's risen again. 00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:29.460 And now he's saying, now this reconstituted people 00:21:29.460 --> 00:21:32.279 of God, the people that you are now as my disciples, 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:35.160 you must now continue the mission of Israel. 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.460 You must now go where the scriptures said this 00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:41.819 story is going. He knows the story he's in. He's 00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:44.650 saying, the scriptures say this. Here we are, 00:21:44.710 --> 00:21:47.789 Messiah, now is the time for this to go to the 00:21:47.789 --> 00:21:50.569 nations. Repentance, forgiveness of sins, you 00:21:50.569 --> 00:21:53.190 will be my witnesses, and so they go. And so 00:21:53.190 --> 00:21:58.269 that's why I would say that Luke 24 is, in a 00:21:58.269 --> 00:22:01.970 sense, Jesus authorizing a missional hermeneutic 00:22:01.970 --> 00:22:04.589 of the Old Testament scriptures. Read those scriptures 00:22:04.589 --> 00:22:08.170 as that which points to Christ, yes, but also 00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:10.069 that which points to mission to the ends of the 00:22:10.069 --> 00:22:14.599 earth. And in my book, a large proportion of 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.079 the book is actually Old Testament. But so was 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:18.680 my course, and I used to teach it at All Nations. 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.099 I think about six or seven of the ten lectures, 00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:23.180 we hadn't even got out of the Old Testament. 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:25.279 So we don't just start with the Great Commission. 00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:29.519 We look at the whole flow of the story all the 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:32.019 way through, which is ultimately leading to the 00:22:32.019 --> 00:22:35.099 nations. And so, Chris, I think the way that 00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:38.119 many of us in our churches operate... consciously 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:40.980 maybe subconsciously is that once or twice a 00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:44.799 year we might have a sunday often called world 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:47.319 mission sunday or something like that where we 00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:49.849 hope that there'll be such a kind of Filling 00:22:49.849 --> 00:22:52.990 up of the missions buckets in our church. For 00:22:52.990 --> 00:22:56.029 the next 51 weeks, it's kind of as it starts 00:22:56.029 --> 00:22:58.549 to leak out and dissipate, we'll have enough 00:22:58.549 --> 00:23:01.289 there to keep us going until next year's Mission 00:23:01.289 --> 00:23:03.529 Sunday. And then we'll come back to another familiar, 00:23:03.589 --> 00:23:06.490 often New Testament passage, commonly maybe Matthew 00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:10.490 28 or Acts 1 or something like that. And again, 00:23:10.630 --> 00:23:13.569 there's validity, there's legitimacy to that. 00:23:13.630 --> 00:23:16.289 That's not a disaster, is it? But actually, I 00:23:16.289 --> 00:23:18.269 think what you're hinting at here is that... 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:21.640 a sense if we're reading and teaching the scriptures 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:24.900 as jesus read and taught them every week in a 00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:27.660 sense is a mission sunday and it's not trying 00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:30.700 to fill people up once a year it's actually trying 00:23:30.700 --> 00:23:33.119 to keep on feeding people through the normal 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.000 week by week teaching of the scriptures yeah 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.259 exactly and i think please again don't misunderstand 00:23:39.259 --> 00:23:41.839 me i have nothing whatsoever against world mission 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.660 sundays But I would like the word world or cross 00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:48.319 -cultural or international to be in there because 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:50.900 when we have a so -called a mission Sunday and 00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:54.119 we rightly want to pray for and support and give 00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:57.160 towards the support of whoever we may have appointed 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.559 or sent or encouraged or on quotes the mission 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:02.619 field in some other part of the world or some 00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:05.099 other part of this country, that is right and 00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:08.269 good to do and we should be doing that. But I 00:24:08.269 --> 00:24:10.769 remember the day that Hugh Palmer once said, 00:24:10.829 --> 00:24:12.930 on a World Mission Sunday, Hugh Palmer was the 00:24:12.930 --> 00:24:15.349 Rector of All Souls for years, and he said, you 00:24:15.349 --> 00:24:18.990 know, this church sends out 1 ,500 mission partners 00:24:18.990 --> 00:24:22.029 every week, which was the approximate membership 00:24:22.029 --> 00:24:25.190 of the church. And then he added, and some of 00:24:25.190 --> 00:24:27.849 them are serving overseas. And of course, what 00:24:27.849 --> 00:24:30.410 he meant was every Sunday when we go out the 00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:32.509 doors of the church, we are entering the mission 00:24:32.509 --> 00:24:35.130 field. We are going into the world where Jesus 00:24:35.130 --> 00:24:38.750 sends us. We're going as those who now, as it 00:24:38.750 --> 00:24:40.829 were, have embraced the kingdom of God and we're 00:24:40.829 --> 00:24:43.390 going into the kingdoms of the world. We are 00:24:43.390 --> 00:24:45.930 those who are people of belief and faith into 00:24:45.930 --> 00:24:48.049 a world of unbelief. And that is the front line. 00:24:48.410 --> 00:24:57.480 And so therefore, you're right. the people of 00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:00.000 God to gather, to worship and praise the living 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.160 God and be renewed in their faith and their love 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.019 for God, which is a huge motivation for mission. 00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:08.839 and also to be equipped to live as saints in 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:10.980 the world, whether that is in professions or 00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:14.720 business or as a street sweeper or as a school 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.339 dinner lady or as a parent or whatever it is, 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:21.700 what God has put you in, that is where your front 00:25:21.700 --> 00:25:24.019 line is, that is where you are to live for God. 00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:27.119 And the job of the pastor is to equip you for 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:29.720 that ministry and that mission. I've sometimes 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:31.880 said on Mission Sundays to the congregation, 00:25:33.019 --> 00:25:35.279 I hope you don't think that you come to church 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:37.740 every Sunday to support the vicar in his ministry. 00:25:38.670 --> 00:25:40.549 Because it's precisely the other way around, 00:25:40.589 --> 00:25:42.789 according to Ephesians 4, when Paul says that 00:25:42.789 --> 00:25:45.490 God has gifted the church with apostles and prophets 00:25:45.490 --> 00:25:48.849 and pastor teachers, the pastors of the church, 00:25:48.930 --> 00:25:53.029 to equip the saints for works of ministry. So 00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:55.490 his job is to come to church every week to equip 00:25:55.490 --> 00:25:58.150 you for your ministry. You are the ones who are 00:25:58.150 --> 00:26:00.309 in the world, engaged in God's mission, wherever 00:26:00.309 --> 00:26:03.329 you are. So part of the burden of my book is 00:26:03.329 --> 00:26:07.109 that mission is not just an agenda for a professional 00:26:07.109 --> 00:26:10.359 class. quotes of missionaries though again don't 00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:12.539 misunderstand we need missionaries and they're 00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:15.160 important and God calls some people to do that 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:17.720 and we need to pray and support them but that 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:20.400 mission is for the whole church as a church we 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.740 are called to be missional and as a church therefore 00:26:23.740 --> 00:26:26.759 every church member is called to be engaged with 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:29.279 God wherever they are And the role of the church 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.839 on Sunday is to equip, motivate, inspire, renew, 00:26:33.019 --> 00:26:36.720 bring us back into that mode of existence as 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:39.559 God's people in God's world for God's purpose. 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:45.779 And yeah, that would be my burden. Chris, in 00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:48.809 the final few minutes we've got... There will 00:26:48.809 --> 00:26:52.470 be some listeners who this very week are preparing 00:26:52.470 --> 00:26:56.089 maybe talks or sermons, maybe Bible studies or 00:26:56.089 --> 00:27:00.410 Sunday school talks and so on. There'll be plenty 00:27:00.410 --> 00:27:03.349 of listeners who are reading their Bibles regularly 00:27:03.349 --> 00:27:08.809 for themselves as well. As our listeners do that 00:27:08.809 --> 00:27:12.450 going forward, what are the kind of questions... 00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:16.759 that you would encourage them to ask of any scripture 00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:19.400 whether it be new testament or indeed old as 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:22.559 we've been discussing um that would help them 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.880 to recognize where that scripture is in in god's 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:31.299 story in god's mission story and our participation 00:27:31.299 --> 00:27:33.940 in that what does it look like to approach the 00:27:33.940 --> 00:27:37.099 scriptures ready to teach or learn from them 00:27:37.099 --> 00:27:41.079 with with this kind of big picture missional 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:43.519 lens in mind. Is there any kind of practical 00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:46.740 advice you might be able to offer in that? Thanks, 00:27:46.819 --> 00:27:50.079 Chris. Yeah, well, I used to sometimes give talks 00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:53.079 on a missional reading of Jeremiah or a missional 00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:56.809 reading. I developed a kind of a group of questions 00:27:56.809 --> 00:27:58.650 which I find helpful. The first one is, where 00:27:58.650 --> 00:28:02.190 is this in the story? You hinted at that. When 00:28:02.190 --> 00:28:04.069 we look at a passage of the Old Testament or 00:28:04.069 --> 00:28:06.589 whatever, we should be saying, where does this 00:28:06.589 --> 00:28:09.630 fit into the grand narrative of God's purposes 00:28:09.630 --> 00:28:12.029 in creation and new creation? Where are we in 00:28:12.029 --> 00:28:14.589 the story? That's an important question to ask 00:28:14.589 --> 00:28:17.210 because that will help to locate the text. in 00:28:17.210 --> 00:28:19.589 the missional context of the people of God at 00:28:19.589 --> 00:28:22.009 that time, who may be in a wonderful situation 00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:24.490 or may be in a disaster situation, whatever it 00:28:24.490 --> 00:28:26.630 is. And then there are two other questions about 00:28:26.630 --> 00:28:29.289 the God of mission. What does this book or this 00:28:29.289 --> 00:28:32.640 text... How does it show me the God of purpose? 00:28:32.779 --> 00:28:35.220 What is God doing here? What is he saying here? 00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:38.480 How do I see God at work? And does this connect 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:41.539 with the way God has acted in the past? Or does 00:28:41.539 --> 00:28:43.460 it point to the way God is going to act in the 00:28:43.460 --> 00:28:47.799 future? So explore the text theologically, looking 00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:50.880 for God. But then also in this text will be the 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:52.759 people of God, because that may be Old Testament 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:55.180 Israel or the disciples or the New Testament 00:28:55.180 --> 00:28:57.970 church. And if God's people are called to be 00:28:57.970 --> 00:29:01.930 on mission for God, how does this text help to 00:29:01.930 --> 00:29:05.890 shape them, to rebuke them, to challenge them, 00:29:05.990 --> 00:29:08.309 to show them what God is about and to call them 00:29:08.309 --> 00:29:10.609 to participate with him? So what is it about 00:29:10.609 --> 00:29:14.609 God's people in this text that relates to the 00:29:14.609 --> 00:29:17.769 kind of people we should be if we're going to 00:29:17.769 --> 00:29:19.849 be faithful to God and maybe need the rebuke 00:29:19.849 --> 00:29:21.369 or the challenge or the encouragement of this 00:29:21.369 --> 00:29:25.259 text? And then two other questions. Because mission 00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:27.460 is basically about the gospel, the good news 00:29:27.460 --> 00:29:30.559 of God, God is on mission. Because he's a good 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:32.960 God and he wants to bring redemption. And good 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:34.660 news is all over the Bible. It's not just quotes 00:29:34.660 --> 00:29:37.599 in the Gospels. The God of the whole Bible is 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:39.940 the God who is constantly acting for people's 00:29:39.940 --> 00:29:43.180 salvation or redemption or rescue. Even when 00:29:43.180 --> 00:29:45.720 they anger him, he judges them, but he comes 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.779 in mercy. He's the God of salvation. So in this 00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:51.380 text, there's just something that speaks of the 00:29:51.380 --> 00:29:54.500 Gospel in the broadest way, the good news of 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:57.619 God. And alongside that, of course, is the other 00:29:57.619 --> 00:30:00.329 side of that core in the dark side. is what in 00:30:00.329 --> 00:30:02.390 this text is revealing the reason why we need 00:30:02.390 --> 00:30:05.430 a gospel? So what can we see here of the radical 00:30:05.430 --> 00:30:07.769 diagnosis of sin that the Bible offers? What 00:30:07.769 --> 00:30:11.009 is the problem that mission is solving? So a 00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:14.630 text will often expose sinfulness in multiple 00:30:14.630 --> 00:30:16.930 dimensions and then we can see the bigness of 00:30:16.930 --> 00:30:19.640 the gospel related to that. So those are some 00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:21.960 of the questions I would ask. And then to go 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.839 on to some sense, is there anything in this text 00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:28.160 which points to God's universal plans for the 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:30.599 nations? Sometimes this may be a text which includes 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:32.420 the nations. A lot of the Psalms do. It's amazing 00:30:32.420 --> 00:30:34.660 how many of the Psalms speak about the whole 00:30:34.660 --> 00:30:37.099 earth and all nations and all peoples. Well, 00:30:37.180 --> 00:30:39.400 take that seriously and ask, what is it saying 00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:41.680 about the peoples of the earth? How does it speak 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:43.779 of them? And does this show something of God's 00:30:43.779 --> 00:30:46.480 heart and plan ultimately for the nations? So 00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:48.099 in those ways, I think we can ask questions. 00:30:48.170 --> 00:30:51.289 which just get at reading the text conscious 00:30:51.289 --> 00:30:54.269 of the fact that this is part of a big story 00:30:54.269 --> 00:30:56.609 in which God is bringing about the salvation 00:30:56.609 --> 00:30:59.210 of the world through the Messiah Jesus ultimately 00:30:59.210 --> 00:31:01.650 leading to the new creation and then just getting 00:31:01.650 --> 00:31:04.509 into the habit of asking those kinds of questions 00:31:04.509 --> 00:31:07.369 won't always get an easy answer but just asking 00:31:07.369 --> 00:31:11.269 the questions puts the lenses on and will sometimes 00:31:11.269 --> 00:31:12.970 help you to see things that you might not have 00:31:12.970 --> 00:31:17.490 seen before Thank you, Chris. Mission of God 00:31:17.490 --> 00:31:21.849 as a book was released 20 years ago. Wonderfully, 00:31:21.849 --> 00:31:24.589 a second edition was commissioned and has now 00:31:24.589 --> 00:31:28.869 been released. Could you tell us a little bit, 00:31:28.890 --> 00:31:31.849 what's the difference between the first and second 00:31:31.849 --> 00:31:34.509 editions and what was it that prompted you to? 00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:38.059 to go, to update it? Well, the first thing to 00:31:38.059 --> 00:31:39.660 say is I haven't changed my mind or anything. 00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:42.579 It's not revised in that sense. I used to say 00:31:42.579 --> 00:31:44.599 I'm revising the mission of God and things very 00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.660 arrogant. I'm not changing anything. I think 00:31:47.660 --> 00:31:50.339 several things. One, it's 20 years. Well, 20 00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:52.180 years is a long time in scholarship. So there's 00:31:52.180 --> 00:31:54.180 been a lot of books written on the missional 00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:56.000 hermeneutic over those years and I needed to 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:58.799 take them into account. The reason I wanted to 00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:00.460 do it was because I was asked actually, IVP, 00:32:00.500 --> 00:32:02.359 the publisher, asked me quite a few years ago 00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:05.539 to do a second edition because... It has, by 00:32:05.539 --> 00:32:07.559 God's grace, started to get used as a textbook. 00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.099 So there's quite a lot of seminaries, Bible colleges 00:32:10.099 --> 00:32:12.900 around the world who have picked it up as a book 00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:15.500 that's useful for students. And if a book is 00:32:15.500 --> 00:32:17.279 going to go on being useful for students, it 00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:19.619 needs to be updated with its bibliography so 00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:21.519 that they can see. So there's a lot more bibliography, 00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:24.799 a lot more footnotes, a lot more engagement with 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:26.980 scholarship. But there are also one or two things 00:32:26.980 --> 00:32:29.440 I wanted to clarify. I think some people had 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:32.200 misunderstood my broad understanding of mission 00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:35.319 as somehow detracting from the importance of 00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:38.299 the gospel and evangelism. And that's very far 00:32:38.299 --> 00:32:41.259 from the case. So I wanted to make a whole chapter 00:32:41.259 --> 00:32:43.799 on what does it mean to have a gospel -centered, 00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.000 holistic, integral mission in which we are engaged 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:50.359 in society, in works of love, compassion, justice, 00:32:50.539 --> 00:32:52.640 all the things that the Bible talks about, but 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.339 we do it around the gospel. And so there's a 00:32:55.339 --> 00:32:57.700 chapter on that. And then there's another chapter 00:32:57.700 --> 00:33:00.700 which was added because some people were saying 00:33:00.700 --> 00:33:04.029 that... By saying that God created Israel for 00:33:04.029 --> 00:33:06.630 the sake of being blessing to the nations means 00:33:06.630 --> 00:33:09.529 that once Jesus comes, there's no more purpose 00:33:09.529 --> 00:33:12.960 for God for Israel or for the Jews. classic name 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:15.700 for that is supersessionism or replacement theology 00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:18.500 and I just wanted to say that's not what I believe 00:33:18.500 --> 00:33:21.859 we need to think more clearly about the relationship 00:33:21.859 --> 00:33:23.759 between God's election of Israel and the Old 00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:26.680 Testament what the Apostle Paul says about the 00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:29.440 Jewish people in Romans 9 to 11 and so on and 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:31.599 to be careful to distinguish those things from 00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:34.440 the Jewish people as a whole in today's world 00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.359 and the modern state of Israel which is another 00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:40.700 matter altogether so I just felt there needed 00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:42.299 to be a chapter which addressed some of those 00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:45.339 issues to clear up some of the, not just misunderstanding, 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:47.180 but some of the ways in which I think I'd been 00:33:47.180 --> 00:33:50.519 misinterpreted as well by other scholars. Thank 00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:53.220 you so much. I'm very pleased to say that I'll 00:33:53.220 --> 00:33:55.799 be teaching from that book this coming week for 00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:58.279 our first year as we use it here and there in 00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:00.000 different parts of our modules and curriculum 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.839 here. And it continues to be a blessing to us. 00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:05.700 Thank you so much for the vast amount of scholarly 00:34:05.700 --> 00:34:08.860 insights and careful biblical thought that you 00:34:08.860 --> 00:34:11.260 have put into that book in order to bless the 00:34:11.260 --> 00:34:13.599 church more widely. So we're grateful for that. 00:34:13.780 --> 00:34:16.820 Final question, Chris, as this new edition of 00:34:16.820 --> 00:34:19.380 the Mission of God comes out. Just briefly, what 00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:21.019 would you like to say? would you love to see 00:34:21.019 --> 00:34:24.000 in the next 20 years with regards to this book, 00:34:24.139 --> 00:34:26.619 but perhaps more widely the field itself? Where 00:34:26.619 --> 00:34:29.239 are we going here? Well, I think the field is 00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:30.960 flourishing. As I say, there are a lot of people 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:33.400 now picking up the idea of missional hermeneutics 00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:35.619 in a way that wasn't the case 20 -something years 00:34:35.619 --> 00:34:39.139 ago, which I'm grateful for. I think what I'm 00:34:39.139 --> 00:34:40.840 seeing is a number of people who are picking 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:42.880 up the idea of a missional hermeneutic and applying 00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:46.699 it to particular books of the Bible. So I'm seeing 00:34:46.699 --> 00:34:49.900 in our books a missional reading of... Amos or 00:34:49.900 --> 00:34:53.360 of the Proverbs or whatever it is and that's 00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:55.119 encouraging because people and I sort of putting 00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:57.500 on the lens what will it do how will it affect 00:34:57.500 --> 00:35:00.599 it doesn't change our in a sense our understanding 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:02.659 the Bible the Bible is still God's word it still 00:35:02.659 --> 00:35:05.960 needs to be preached in its in its simple you 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:08.219 know, the wonderful word of God. But this is 00:35:08.219 --> 00:35:10.300 just a way sometimes of seeing things that we 00:35:10.300 --> 00:35:12.059 may not have seen before. And I think there'll 00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:14.760 be more and more of that kind of textual, exegetical 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.460 work with a missional lens, and that's good. 00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:20.820 So I'm pretty encouraged at the way it's going, 00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:25.400 but I'm more concerned that people, maybe some 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:27.719 pastors can take up this book, but I do have 00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.900 one or two others, like The Great Story and The 00:35:29.900 --> 00:35:31.639 Great Commission, which is a much smaller book. 00:35:32.300 --> 00:35:35.400 and maybe much more accessible for average church 00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:39.059 groups to say, well, what is our mission as a 00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:42.099 church? The Great Story and the Great Commission, 00:35:42.219 --> 00:35:45.159 putting the two things together. is a more popular 00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:47.199 level book. That's right. The Mission of God, 00:35:47.300 --> 00:35:50.219 for all its sort of massive magnificence, is 00:35:50.219 --> 00:35:54.159 large. And it may not be for everyone to easily 00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:56.420 get into that and digest it, but there's other 00:35:56.420 --> 00:35:59.880 resources you've produced that slim down that 00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:03.420 a little bit. And I have a website as well. I 00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:05.800 hesitate to say because I didn't really want 00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:07.980 to, but Langham insists because all my royalties 00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:09.920 go to Langham. So I've got a website, which is 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:13.659 just my name, Christopher J. H. Wright. And that's 00:36:13.659 --> 00:36:16.369 got all my books on it. all my sermons and everything 00:36:16.369 --> 00:36:19.809 else. So ChristopherJHWright .com will get you 00:36:19.809 --> 00:36:21.809 through to more than everything I've done in 00:36:21.809 --> 00:36:25.130 life. Well, thank you so very much for all that 00:36:25.130 --> 00:36:27.590 you have done and continue to do. We pray that 00:36:27.590 --> 00:36:30.329 the Lord richly blesses you in those many ministries 00:36:30.329 --> 00:36:32.309 that you are continuing with, not least your 00:36:32.309 --> 00:36:35.369 writing in this area of missional hermeneutics. 00:36:35.889 --> 00:36:38.150 We wish you all the very best for the future, 00:36:38.230 --> 00:36:41.170 Chris. Thank you so much for coming on to Oak 00:36:41.170 --> 00:36:43.809 Hill College's Deep Roots podcast and sharing. 00:36:44.619 --> 00:36:47.300 wisely with us we're really grateful listeners 00:36:47.300 --> 00:36:49.699 thank you so very much for joining us for this 00:36:49.699 --> 00:36:53.039 episode and we look forward to seeing you again 00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:56.179 in an upcoming episode soon blessings thank you