WEBVTT 00:00:08.179 --> 00:00:11.240 Welcome to Deep Roots, the podcast from Oak Hill 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.800 College, where we have conversations about theology 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.699 and ministry. My name's Jonny Reid. I'm the 00:00:16.699 --> 00:00:19.239 director of engagement here at Oak Hill. I'm 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:22.000 also service and elder at Town Church Bicester 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:24.559 and FIEC Church in Oxfordshire. And it's my delight 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:27.570 to have with me Reverend Dr. Andrew Cowan. I've 00:00:27.570 --> 00:00:29.809 given him his full title there, our new tutor 00:00:29.809 --> 00:00:32.649 in Greek and New Testament here at Oak Hill. 00:00:32.929 --> 00:00:34.509 And we're chatting about a particular topic. 00:00:34.570 --> 00:00:36.350 You've seen it. You've clicked on this podcast. 00:00:36.549 --> 00:00:38.789 You've probably read the title. Why should we 00:00:38.789 --> 00:00:41.649 bother with biblical languages? And you may be 00:00:41.649 --> 00:00:44.170 listening, going. that you should bother with 00:00:44.170 --> 00:00:45.429 them and feeling a bit guilty because you've 00:00:45.429 --> 00:00:48.670 maybe not kept them going or a bit unsure. Why 00:00:48.670 --> 00:00:50.149 should we bother with biblical languages? Surely 00:00:50.149 --> 00:00:51.750 we don't need them because we've got translations 00:00:51.750 --> 00:00:54.509 today and we don't need them. Here at Oak Hill, 00:00:54.570 --> 00:00:55.950 you'll hear it come across. We're passionate 00:00:55.950 --> 00:00:59.070 about making biblical languages accessible to 00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:01.250 all who want to be able to take them, keeping 00:01:01.250 --> 00:01:04.930 people going with them as well. So that's what 00:01:04.930 --> 00:01:06.129 we're going to talk about, why we should bother 00:01:06.129 --> 00:01:08.269 with biblical languages. Andrew, thanks for joining 00:01:08.269 --> 00:01:11.799 us. Let's ask you this first. When did you first 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:15.519 realize the value or maybe more than that, the 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:20.659 beauty of studying for you Greek? Yeah, I think 00:01:20.659 --> 00:01:24.540 for me that happened kind of organically. Initially, 00:01:24.659 --> 00:01:27.159 it was just modeled really well by a pastor I 00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:30.359 had when I was in my teens who just really cared 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:32.799 about getting into the Bible and thinking about 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:35.540 it carefully and prized reading in the original 00:01:35.540 --> 00:01:39.129 languages as part of that process. And that just 00:01:39.129 --> 00:01:41.250 seemed to me to have a great deal of integrity 00:01:41.250 --> 00:01:44.189 about it. And the text just came alive when he 00:01:44.189 --> 00:01:47.030 preached. I went then to study theology as an 00:01:47.030 --> 00:01:49.269 undergraduate and was forced to do biblical languages 00:01:49.269 --> 00:01:51.209 as part of that, although I was kind of looking 00:01:51.209 --> 00:01:55.469 forward to it because of that. And it just, for 00:01:55.469 --> 00:01:57.849 me, the text kind of came alive in that process. 00:01:58.269 --> 00:02:01.030 And all sorts of things that I just hadn't really 00:02:01.030 --> 00:02:04.849 thought about before started to kind of come 00:02:04.849 --> 00:02:07.900 in on me at that point. We'll get to kind of 00:02:07.900 --> 00:02:11.159 talking a bit about, for others, why. But particularly 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:14.020 for you, how is studying the Bible in its original 00:02:14.020 --> 00:02:17.900 languages affected your own spiritual life? Yeah, 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.219 I mean, one of the big things is it just makes 00:02:20.219 --> 00:02:22.580 you slow down and think more carefully about 00:02:22.580 --> 00:02:25.439 the text. Like you're looking often word by word. 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:29.860 You're just thinking, how does this fit together? 00:02:29.979 --> 00:02:34.330 How does it make sense? What does it mean? So 00:02:34.330 --> 00:02:36.610 there's that side of things. You just take more 00:02:36.610 --> 00:02:38.810 care and are getting into the details. The other 00:02:38.810 --> 00:02:41.189 side of it is just you appreciate the kind of 00:02:41.189 --> 00:02:44.590 differences between where we are reading, in 00:02:44.590 --> 00:02:47.750 my case, English today and somebody in the first 00:02:47.750 --> 00:02:50.090 century reading Greek or earlier than that in 00:02:50.090 --> 00:02:52.930 Hebrew. And the ways in which the languages are 00:02:52.930 --> 00:02:54.550 just so different. So English kind of flattens 00:02:54.550 --> 00:02:57.789 out the differences even between genres, never 00:02:57.789 --> 00:02:59.530 mind languages. And you get your Bible and just 00:02:59.530 --> 00:03:02.889 often it reads kind of the same. But Greek and 00:03:02.889 --> 00:03:04.250 Hebrew are very different from each other. It's 00:03:04.250 --> 00:03:06.349 a very kind of visceral experience at times reading 00:03:06.349 --> 00:03:09.789 in like Hebrew and Greek is such a kind of precise 00:03:09.789 --> 00:03:12.090 and technical thing. It's just a very different 00:03:12.090 --> 00:03:15.110 experience. And it kind of makes the text kind 00:03:15.110 --> 00:03:19.189 of sparkle with life as you read it. As I said, 00:03:19.189 --> 00:03:21.009 we don't really know who's listening to this. 00:03:21.110 --> 00:03:22.550 We trust that some people are listening to this, 00:03:22.590 --> 00:03:24.650 but they'll be coming with different backgrounds 00:03:24.650 --> 00:03:27.289 to this kind of question of biblical languages. 00:03:28.129 --> 00:03:30.430 What are maybe some of the... the common misconceptions 00:03:30.430 --> 00:03:32.610 you've come across when people are thinking about 00:03:32.610 --> 00:03:35.150 biblical languages and the study of them and 00:03:35.150 --> 00:03:37.289 the point of them and why do we do that today? 00:03:37.490 --> 00:03:40.650 Yeah, I guess there are probably four things 00:03:40.650 --> 00:03:43.289 that come to mind that I suppose are related. 00:03:43.469 --> 00:03:48.650 One is it's like maybe there's just too much 00:03:48.650 --> 00:03:50.650 time investment before you start to see fruit. 00:03:51.069 --> 00:03:53.710 And is it worth taking that time to invest, to 00:03:53.710 --> 00:03:56.310 learn, to memorize all these paradigms and vocab 00:03:56.310 --> 00:03:59.400 and all that kind of stuff? One is... can you 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:01.780 ever actually get proficient? Like, is it impossible 00:04:01.780 --> 00:04:05.439 to reach that point? Another is, well, there's 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:08.819 so many good translations, good resources these 00:04:08.819 --> 00:04:11.460 days, so do you need it? And then finally, some 00:04:11.460 --> 00:04:13.159 people, it's just a confidence thing. It's, can 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:15.159 I do this? I just don't think I'm good at languages. 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:18.100 I've got a poor memory, that kind of thing. Some 00:04:18.100 --> 00:04:21.800 combination of those factors tend to be what 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:25.439 I come across. Let's take this one by one briefly. 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:28.139 So give us that first one again. So the first 00:04:28.139 --> 00:04:30.759 one, first misconception. Is that it feels like 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:32.480 it can take a long time before you start to see 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:36.759 any fruit. So persuade me otherwise. Well, the 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:39.959 answer to that and to all of those issues is 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:42.339 kind of yes and no. Because, yeah, it will take 00:04:42.339 --> 00:04:44.699 some time. It will take some effort. You won't 00:04:44.699 --> 00:04:48.779 be kind of reading, you know, fluently in a day 00:04:48.779 --> 00:04:51.879 or even a month or even a year. But actually, 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:53.959 you will start to pick things up quite early 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:57.360 on, particularly if your teacher knows, if you're 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:58.560 studying in a context where you have a teacher 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.399 that is, you know, they know that that's why 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:04.339 you want to learn, that you want to read scripture 00:05:04.339 --> 00:05:06.319 in the original language. And they'll be trying, 00:05:06.420 --> 00:05:09.300 hopefully, to show you the value of it and show 00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:11.639 you where it can cash out. And there are ways 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:14.519 often that happens even quite early on in the 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:18.600 study of Greek, in my case. But, you know, it 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:20.750 does take a bit of time. And the question is, 00:05:20.750 --> 00:05:23.410 is that time investment worth it? And I would 00:05:23.410 --> 00:05:25.649 argue that it is. What was the second misconception 00:05:25.649 --> 00:05:28.329 then? One is, well, can you ever actually get 00:05:28.329 --> 00:05:31.290 proficient? Yeah. So it's not just the time, 00:05:31.310 --> 00:05:32.949 but is it even possible? Is that a question slightly 00:05:32.949 --> 00:05:36.430 because we're so far from the time when the original 00:05:36.430 --> 00:05:38.569 language was there, so it's just do we know enough 00:05:38.569 --> 00:05:41.550 to ever actually truly know? Is it partly that? 00:05:41.990 --> 00:05:44.509 Partly that, yeah, and partly just it feels like. 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.579 It's just such a long journey that people wonder, 00:05:47.660 --> 00:05:49.360 do you ever get to the end of it? And again, 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:51.779 the answer is, well, yes, I know, because it 00:05:51.779 --> 00:05:56.060 is a lifelong thing. I anticipate that if the 00:05:56.060 --> 00:05:59.279 Lord spares me for another 20 or 30 years, I'll 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:02.959 still be learning and hopefully improving. And 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:06.519 it does take a long time. But actually, that 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:08.899 doesn't mean that you're not growing and increasing 00:06:08.899 --> 00:06:12.079 in understanding and finding all sorts of ways 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:15.400 in which it's helpful and encouraging. bearing 00:06:15.400 --> 00:06:17.259 fruit in your devotional life, in your ministry, 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:18.980 in all sorts of ways. And you see that with the 00:06:18.980 --> 00:06:21.100 people, for example, you've run for a number 00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:22.660 of years and you've started up again at Oak Hill 00:06:22.660 --> 00:06:24.920 a weekly reading group and you've got a range 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:26.319 of people in that group, don't you? People who 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:28.720 really have seen that and have kept it going 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:30.779 and people who are kind of, I know I need to. 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:32.720 So you're seeing that differences, aren't you? 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:35.240 Yeah, and it is actually really encouraging when 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:37.379 you think about where people start. I think, 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:39.079 you know, you start with no knowledge at all 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:42.579 of the language. Week one, you kind of are learning 00:06:42.579 --> 00:06:45.019 a new alphabet. and learning to pronounce words 00:06:45.019 --> 00:06:48.660 that are unfamiliar to you. By week two, you're 00:06:48.660 --> 00:06:53.079 kind of learning that the language has a whole 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:55.240 system of cases to show how words function, that 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:58.259 verbs encode the person doing the action in the 00:06:58.259 --> 00:07:00.680 ending. It's an inflected language. I mean, these 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:02.879 are big things to try and get your head around. 00:07:04.180 --> 00:07:07.680 But then you fast forward like a year or two 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:10.019 years, and suddenly actually the things that 00:07:10.019 --> 00:07:13.600 stress you out in week one or two. are not stressful 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:16.319 at all and you've come a long way so you know 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.579 you know you do make progress and you do learn 00:07:18.579 --> 00:07:20.420 things and when you see people in groups like 00:07:20.420 --> 00:07:23.100 that reading group um they're at different stages 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:25.759 but you know they're able to read in this this 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:27.120 case we're reading second timothy at the minute 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.060 and you know this this group are by and large 00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:33.199 able to just read and translate those verses 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:35.579 on spec and then talk about how they fit together 00:07:35.579 --> 00:07:38.079 and what they mean and it's really encouraging 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:40.920 you know and so that third misconception was 00:07:42.430 --> 00:07:45.949 With modern day technology, digital tools, English 00:07:45.949 --> 00:07:48.850 translations, is it still worth the effort to 00:07:48.850 --> 00:07:51.470 study in the first hand? That's right. And there 00:07:51.470 --> 00:07:54.009 are probably two factors to think about there. 00:07:54.069 --> 00:07:59.230 One is that, first of all, you need to know how 00:07:59.230 --> 00:08:02.269 to use the tools well. And it's difficult to 00:08:02.269 --> 00:08:04.709 do that unless you have some grasp of how the 00:08:04.709 --> 00:08:06.490 languages work, what the tools are offering. 00:08:07.129 --> 00:08:09.230 And actually, the more you know of the language, 00:08:09.470 --> 00:08:12.620 the more you can use the tools. really fruitfully 00:08:12.620 --> 00:08:19.339 um so you might have a digital version of a really 00:08:19.339 --> 00:08:22.879 big greek lexicon for example a dictionary um 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:24.959 unless you know something of the way the language 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:27.160 works and the way word studies and lexicography 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:30.500 works then you're just going to be looking at 00:08:30.500 --> 00:08:32.679 words and picking the one that you know you fits 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:34.460 your sermon prep best or something like that 00:08:34.460 --> 00:08:36.639 um you're not really able to adjudicate between 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:39.480 options um so that's just one example things 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:45.049 like um you know study bibles or you know digital 00:08:45.049 --> 00:08:47.070 editions that let you kind of hover over words 00:08:47.070 --> 00:08:49.230 and get get meanings again you need to know what 00:08:49.230 --> 00:08:51.549 does it mean that this word is an aorist rather 00:08:51.549 --> 00:08:54.929 than imperfect why is that significant why has 00:08:54.929 --> 00:08:57.830 the author chosen that word here you don't get 00:08:57.830 --> 00:09:00.769 that just from being able to you know highlight 00:09:00.769 --> 00:09:05.529 the word so that's one thing um i said there 00:09:05.529 --> 00:09:07.049 were two things i can't not remember what the 00:09:07.049 --> 00:09:08.950 second one was but i'm sure it was very important 00:09:10.460 --> 00:09:12.799 What was that fourth misconception then? Oh, 00:09:12.820 --> 00:09:14.460 just that people think I just can't do languages. 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:17.799 You know, I'm not naturally a linguist. Which 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:19.240 would be interesting because there's a number 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:21.500 of our colleagues here at Oak Hill who teach 00:09:21.500 --> 00:09:23.740 languages. I think particularly one of the guys 00:09:23.740 --> 00:09:26.440 doing Greek for 20 or so years, our principal 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:28.539 generalist is Hebrew. Both of them would say 00:09:28.539 --> 00:09:31.399 they are not natural linguists when you chat 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:33.340 to them. Yeah. And you're now teaching it now. 00:09:33.419 --> 00:09:35.159 So it seems that that seems to maybe that's false 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:38.090 humility, but there seems to be a common. A common 00:09:38.090 --> 00:09:40.009 thread. Yeah. And I would say that of myself 00:09:40.009 --> 00:09:42.190 as well. Like I'm not a natural linguist. I don't 00:09:42.190 --> 00:09:44.009 have a very good memory. I have to work hard 00:09:44.009 --> 00:09:46.169 at that kind of thing. I mean, maybe that's why 00:09:46.169 --> 00:09:49.149 in part we've ended up as teachers because we 00:09:49.149 --> 00:09:52.610 understand a little more the kind of grit that 00:09:52.610 --> 00:09:54.830 needs to go into it and want to help people who 00:09:54.830 --> 00:09:57.210 are in a similar position. And that's often my 00:09:57.210 --> 00:09:59.029 answer as well. Like if I can do it, anyone can. 00:10:00.090 --> 00:10:03.009 And yeah, it involves some hard work. It involves, 00:10:03.190 --> 00:10:05.049 you know, the support of a teacher. And actually... 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:08.259 you know, friends and colleagues around you who 00:10:08.259 --> 00:10:12.440 can work. We encourage our first year Greek students 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:14.899 to get a study buddy and they learn things together. 00:10:14.940 --> 00:10:17.440 They practice things together. One of the blessings 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:19.659 of being kind of on site in a kind of residential 00:10:19.659 --> 00:10:21.519 training context is that you can do that very 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:23.519 easily. And the reason why you couldn't do it 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:27.320 over Zoom or something as well. But yeah, anyone 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:29.379 can do it. And one of the things you can say 00:10:29.379 --> 00:10:32.059 to people is, well, you have learned the language. 00:10:32.899 --> 00:10:35.320 So it's clear that that is possible for you. 00:10:38.079 --> 00:10:40.120 People have different learning styles. I think 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:41.899 we need to be aware of that. Some people learn 00:10:41.899 --> 00:10:44.679 more inductively. Some people learn more by kind 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:46.440 of grammar translation and more old -fashioned 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:50.399 sense. And we want to support people where they're 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:52.539 coming from, I guess. What would you say to somebody 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:55.659 who... It's probably more a question for me. 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:57.480 Are they in danger of knowing just enough Greek 00:10:57.480 --> 00:11:03.259 or Hebrew to be confident but wrong? Yeah, I 00:11:03.259 --> 00:11:06.379 think there are in that... You need to know how 00:11:06.379 --> 00:11:09.259 to use the tools responsibly and in a way that 00:11:09.259 --> 00:11:11.700 is going to help you understand the text and 00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:14.279 also be edifying for, say, a congregation if 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:16.120 you're preaching or a Bible study group if you're 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:19.700 leading. So one is you don't want to give the 00:11:19.700 --> 00:11:21.580 impression that you're a kind of all -knowing 00:11:21.580 --> 00:11:24.440 guru and, you know, there's an elite class of 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:26.940 people who know the languages. And in a sense, 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:30.100 you don't want, it should be very, very, very 00:11:30.100 --> 00:11:33.460 rare that you say anything close to the Greek 00:11:33.460 --> 00:11:36.340 says this. in a sermon you want people to have 00:11:36.340 --> 00:11:38.039 confidence in the word of god in their language 00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:41.000 that they have in front of them um your hard 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.899 work at the languages should you know impact 00:11:43.899 --> 00:11:46.440 like impact your sermon inform your reading of 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:49.860 the text but not in a way that's going to you 00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:52.879 know discourage people in front of you the other 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:54.580 thing is just being careful so if you know a 00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:57.320 little bit you can make connections that are 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.940 maybe less helpful so one example is that the 00:12:00.940 --> 00:12:04.220 greek word for par is dunamis And it's one of 00:12:04.220 --> 00:12:06.440 the classic mistakes. Sorry, for power. Yeah. 00:12:06.500 --> 00:12:08.159 Sorry, just to translate the Northern Irish accent 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:09.779 for some people there. It's important, yeah. 00:12:11.220 --> 00:12:14.399 And one of the mistakes people can make is say, 00:12:14.460 --> 00:12:16.980 well, you know, that word is related to the word 00:12:16.980 --> 00:12:18.860 dynamite in English. So therefore, when it comes 00:12:18.860 --> 00:12:20.919 up in the Greek New Testament, is this the explosive 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:24.159 power of God or something like that? And that's 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:27.220 a kind of word fallacy. It's reading the kind 00:12:27.220 --> 00:12:30.320 of what the word means in its... derivation in 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:32.620 our language back into the like yes they're related 00:12:32.620 --> 00:12:35.899 but it's wrong to kind of read the idea of dynamite 00:12:35.899 --> 00:12:39.320 back into par but it's the sort of thing that's 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.960 easily done there's a good book that's it's getting 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:44.480 a bit old now but it's still brilliant and worth 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.519 reading called exegetical fallacies by don carson 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.799 short book and it highlights a lot of these mistakes 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.460 that we can make grammatical fallacies word study 00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:55.990 fallacies and many others It's sobering reading 00:12:55.990 --> 00:12:57.549 if you're a preacher or a teacher because you 00:12:57.549 --> 00:12:58.870 think, gosh, how many of these have I ticked 00:12:58.870 --> 00:13:01.429 off? But actually we need to have the humility 00:13:01.429 --> 00:13:05.070 to face up to some of these things and then use 00:13:05.070 --> 00:13:08.330 tools like the languages carefully. And if you 00:13:08.330 --> 00:13:10.590 know just enough to make those mistakes, then 00:13:10.590 --> 00:13:12.029 you need to at least know that those mistakes 00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:17.269 are a risk, I think. So if you're a man or woman 00:13:17.269 --> 00:13:20.210 listening in who teaches in a variety of contexts, 00:13:20.669 --> 00:13:25.789 what is a bit of your approach? well enough as 00:13:25.789 --> 00:13:28.370 you know very well obviously well enough is that 00:13:28.370 --> 00:13:30.870 like you say it should be very rare that you're 00:13:30.870 --> 00:13:32.549 standing up in front of the people you're speaking 00:13:32.549 --> 00:13:35.610 to saying hey by the way this is what the greek 00:13:35.610 --> 00:13:38.610 says but obviously at a key moment in your process 00:13:38.610 --> 00:13:40.950 you are doing that and that's that's to get you 00:13:40.950 --> 00:13:43.629 towards your understanding isn't it yeah yeah 00:13:43.629 --> 00:13:45.710 exactly and it would rarely come through in like 00:13:45.710 --> 00:13:49.370 a talk or a sermon or a study unless in some 00:13:49.370 --> 00:13:53.149 way you just really need to be transparent and 00:13:53.149 --> 00:13:55.809 show you're working to show people why you think 00:13:55.809 --> 00:13:59.909 the text is saying what it is so it's it's that's 00:13:59.909 --> 00:14:04.149 a kind of tool to be used very cautiously is 00:14:04.149 --> 00:14:06.269 to say oh the greek says this because they'll 00:14:06.269 --> 00:14:08.429 say well that's what you know just like be rare 00:14:08.429 --> 00:14:11.590 to say this translation i actually prefer this 00:14:11.590 --> 00:14:13.250 translation if it's not your normal church translation 00:14:13.250 --> 00:14:15.620 you've got to be quite careful how you do that 00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:18.019 yeah i mean even when you do that you could basically 00:14:18.019 --> 00:14:20.159 be saying well i could just choose my personal 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.820 preference you know and i could make the bible 00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:25.559 say what i kind of prefer it to say rather than 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:27.419 thinking well what what's the best way to kind 00:14:27.419 --> 00:14:31.799 of communicate that in a way that people reading 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.220 in english will understand so it's why the work 00:14:34.220 --> 00:14:36.860 of bible translation is never going to go away 00:14:36.860 --> 00:14:38.759 i mean you think english has lots of translations 00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:43.440 but english is evolving and also our understanding 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:45.559 of the languages is evolving as well Keep in 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.340 some ways persuading the skeptic here. Not skeptics 00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:50.340 too hard of a word, but help me see the beauty 00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:52.580 here. Is there a particular example you've had 00:14:52.580 --> 00:14:55.840 in your own ministry or just your own personal 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.740 life where you've gone, there's a passage where 00:14:57.740 --> 00:15:01.620 knowing the original language really changed 00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:03.779 or deepened your understanding or is maybe one 00:15:03.779 --> 00:15:05.039 you do with your students where you kind of, 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:06.779 like you say, you want to get them excited early 00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:10.740 doors with this has real tangible benefit. Where 00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:12.470 are you? What are some examples of where you're 00:15:12.470 --> 00:15:14.990 going? Yeah. I could give one specific example 00:15:14.990 --> 00:15:17.529 in the text or maybe two examples in a text and 00:15:17.529 --> 00:15:19.950 then just some general, like a general list of 00:15:19.950 --> 00:15:23.029 kind of a grab bag of examples. A grab bag, right. 00:15:23.230 --> 00:15:25.509 But one, I think I've shared this with you before 00:15:25.509 --> 00:15:30.629 in another context, but Colossians 1, 28 and 00:15:30.629 --> 00:15:32.909 29, Paul is writing and saying, we proclaim Christ, 00:15:33.230 --> 00:15:36.009 kind of warning and teaching everyone. And it's 00:15:36.009 --> 00:15:38.090 a great kind of strapline for ministries and 00:15:38.090 --> 00:15:39.450 student ministries that I've been part of have 00:15:39.450 --> 00:15:42.230 used it in the past. And Paul says, you know, 00:15:42.289 --> 00:15:44.669 we kind of are warning everyone, we're teaching 00:15:44.669 --> 00:15:47.129 everyone with all wisdom in order that we might 00:15:47.129 --> 00:15:49.570 present everyone perfect in Christ. Now, that 00:15:49.570 --> 00:15:52.009 translation that I've given is roughly what the 00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:54.470 ESV has. It has that word everyone three times. 00:15:54.870 --> 00:15:57.710 The NIV tries to slightly smooth it out and says 00:15:57.710 --> 00:16:01.169 everyone twice. And those are legitimate translations. 00:16:01.350 --> 00:16:03.470 They're good translations, both of them. But 00:16:03.470 --> 00:16:05.450 if you look at the text, what it actually says 00:16:05.450 --> 00:16:08.789 is kind of more literally or woodenly, every 00:16:08.789 --> 00:16:12.220 person. pantheanthropon three times. And Paul 00:16:12.220 --> 00:16:13.840 could have just said, like he could have just 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:16.200 said everyone, but he says every person and he 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.259 repeats that phrase three times. And I think 00:16:18.259 --> 00:16:20.000 you're getting something of Paul's heart there. 00:16:20.379 --> 00:16:22.659 Every individual, every individual, we're going 00:16:22.659 --> 00:16:24.659 to warn every individual, we're going to teach 00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:26.419 every individual, we're going to present every 00:16:26.419 --> 00:16:30.740 individual perfect. And you get Paul's pastoral 00:16:30.740 --> 00:16:33.259 heart for the individual. And you can say, well, 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:34.799 you know, it's kind of there in the ESV and the 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:38.610 NIV. But it's just slightly obscured. And it's 00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:41.090 even just little things like that, when Paul's 00:16:41.090 --> 00:16:42.889 heart comes through in choices that he's made, 00:16:43.049 --> 00:16:45.730 that I find really encouraging when you see them 00:16:45.730 --> 00:16:49.570 like, oh, wow, that's what he means. So things 00:16:49.570 --> 00:16:52.669 like that. There are other things like, you know, 00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:56.950 the kind of, we've all, I guess, had those doorstep 00:16:56.950 --> 00:17:00.210 conversations with Jehovah Witnesses. He'll come 00:17:00.210 --> 00:17:05.599 and say, well. They won't bring this up usually. 00:17:05.740 --> 00:17:09.099 It's usually me who brings it up. But the idea 00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:13.180 that Jesus is not God, but perhaps is divine 00:17:13.180 --> 00:17:14.859 in some way or something like that. And they'll 00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:18.099 say, well, you know, look at your Bible. In the 00:17:18.099 --> 00:17:22.440 Greek, it really says the word was a God in John 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:27.299 1. And if you look at your Greek, theos enho 00:17:27.299 --> 00:17:30.500 logos, the word was a God. I mean, that is what 00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:34.180 it says kind of literally. But a little bit of 00:17:34.180 --> 00:17:36.119 study of Greek grammar and the way the kind of 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.880 ordering of words works and the way the article 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.740 kind of functions soon shows you that that actually 00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:45.559 is how you would say the word was God. And that, 00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:49.000 you know, knowing the Greek helps you engage 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.980 with those kinds of, I guess, not quite objections, 00:17:53.019 --> 00:17:57.279 but challenges that can come. They tend not to 00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:00.779 come to my door anymore. I don't know why. Yeah, 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.119 so I promised to a couple of specific examples 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.359 and then some like a grab bag of general ones. 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:09.359 Yeah, a grab bag of favorites. So, I mean, I 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.059 was thinking about this. I mean, there's so many 00:18:11.059 --> 00:18:13.500 ways the languages can benefit you that you might 00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:15.460 not even realize. One is often in our Bibles, 00:18:15.460 --> 00:18:18.680 we'll see little footnotes that have text critical 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:21.619 issues. So some manuscripts say this, some manuscripts 00:18:21.619 --> 00:18:27.759 say that. It's very difficult to have any kind 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.680 of an opinion on. the validity of those other 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:32.619 readings and what they might mean, unless you 00:18:32.619 --> 00:18:34.720 have some grasp of the language and can kind 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.200 of look at it yourself. Otherwise, it's just 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:40.519 an interesting footnote. What do I do with that? 00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:43.200 Or you might see a big bracketed bit at the end 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:45.819 of Mark's gospel or in the middle of John that 00:18:45.819 --> 00:18:48.619 many manuscripts don't have this. What do I do 00:18:48.619 --> 00:18:51.099 with that? Yeah, you could read another book 00:18:51.099 --> 00:18:52.819 about it, but having the languages will help. 00:18:54.019 --> 00:18:57.869 One thing, you miss some of the quirks. There's 00:18:57.869 --> 00:19:00.890 a feature called solecism in Greek where a deliberate 00:19:00.890 --> 00:19:04.730 grammatical mistake. And often writers in New 00:19:04.730 --> 00:19:07.410 Testament will kind of do that kind of thing 00:19:07.410 --> 00:19:10.390 to make a point. And so one that I quite like 00:19:10.390 --> 00:19:13.549 is in Revelation where John is saying Jesus is 00:19:13.549 --> 00:19:17.450 the one who was, who is and is to come. And he 00:19:17.450 --> 00:19:21.049 kind of expresses it in a way that is kind of 00:19:21.049 --> 00:19:23.670 grammatically incorrect, but it's the most kind 00:19:23.670 --> 00:19:26.539 of efficient way of saying. You know, he is the, 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.539 he was, he kind of puts an article with a verb 00:19:28.539 --> 00:19:30.380 that you just shouldn't really do, a kind of 00:19:30.380 --> 00:19:33.200 finite verb. But it gets the point across really 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:35.920 well. And again, our translation will kind of 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:37.980 obscure that and it just kind of brings it to 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:40.700 life. You'll often miss the relationship between 00:19:40.700 --> 00:19:43.880 cognate words. So words that are from the same 00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:48.240 root. So like words like it for us, righteousness, 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.660 righteous, just, justice. Those feel like two 00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:55.220 different word groups. But in Greek, they're 00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:56.920 the same word group, the same mystery of like 00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:59.940 faith and belief. And some translations will 00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:02.900 promise that they'll use the same words to translate 00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:05.220 the same words. You can see that. But in practice, 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:10.059 they don't deliver. So you have no way of being 00:20:10.059 --> 00:20:11.859 certain that that's what's going on unless you 00:20:11.859 --> 00:20:14.380 can look at it yourself. So that's another example. 00:20:15.220 --> 00:20:17.740 And, you know, just saying wordplay, which... 00:20:18.959 --> 00:20:21.180 which, again, is something that kind of brings 00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:22.599 the text to life. You think, well, why have they 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:24.700 been so careful here? Why does the writer of 00:20:24.700 --> 00:20:27.480 the Hebrews so often alliterate, chooses words 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.259 that begin with the same letter or end with the 00:20:29.259 --> 00:20:32.059 same letter? It helps you see structure. It helps 00:20:32.059 --> 00:20:34.380 you appreciate the kind of care that the authors 00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:36.180 have taken and their personalities coming through. 00:20:37.539 --> 00:20:40.279 All of which is not to kind of overemphasize 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.339 the human author of the text against the divine 00:20:42.339 --> 00:20:44.059 author, but actually this is the way in which 00:20:44.059 --> 00:20:46.500 God and his sovereignty has worked to bring scripture 00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:50.180 together. in this language, in this time for 00:20:50.180 --> 00:20:54.579 all of us. As in it's helpful for somebody who's 00:20:54.579 --> 00:20:56.720 got a bit of a language background but neither 00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.880 in Greek or Hebrew. I'm sitting here persuaded 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:03.980 that there's a benefit, there's a help. Maybe 00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:06.619 then as we kind of bring ourselves in a little 00:21:06.619 --> 00:21:08.339 bit, let's speak to a couple of different audiences. 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:13.589 Let's speak to... Yeah, maybe people like me 00:21:13.589 --> 00:21:15.470 who have not done biblical language, who've done 00:21:15.470 --> 00:21:17.750 a bit of training, maybe done some theology here 00:21:17.750 --> 00:21:19.329 or there, who've not been able to do languages, 00:21:19.569 --> 00:21:22.069 haven't had the time to or haven't made the time 00:21:22.069 --> 00:21:26.869 to probably. How could we start? I think if you're 00:21:26.869 --> 00:21:28.349 listening at this stage, you're hopefully persuaded 00:21:28.349 --> 00:21:31.470 that you should do. It would be a benefit of 00:21:31.470 --> 00:21:33.750 you if you could find some way to do it. What 00:21:33.750 --> 00:21:36.680 is some advice you could give? people who aren't 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:37.980 going to come they're not going to come full 00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:39.859 -time to college or something necessarily there 00:21:39.859 --> 00:21:42.460 is a tools of the resources which can be really 00:21:42.460 --> 00:21:44.619 helpful is there advice you could give on how 00:21:44.619 --> 00:21:47.720 you could even just get started yes yeah i mean 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:50.859 there are with with the caveat that i mean there's 00:21:50.859 --> 00:21:53.420 there's in some way the best way to do it is 00:21:53.420 --> 00:21:56.680 to be set aside for some time studying in a community 00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:58.559 that's just the best it's the best way to learn 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:02.759 languages um and with the other caveat that you 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:04.789 don't want it to kind of take you away from just 00:22:04.789 --> 00:22:07.109 reading the bible in the form that you have it 00:22:07.109 --> 00:22:10.230 already because um you know that that can be 00:22:10.230 --> 00:22:13.089 a danger as well um but yeah we in a sense we 00:22:13.089 --> 00:22:15.130 live in a kind of golden age of language acquisition 00:22:15.130 --> 00:22:18.029 so much work has been done in learning styles 00:22:18.029 --> 00:22:21.589 and how people learn languages and how they kind 00:22:21.589 --> 00:22:24.549 of grow in knowledge of them like we said already 00:22:24.549 --> 00:22:28.430 digital resources um are kind of unparalleled 00:22:28.430 --> 00:22:31.049 at the minute and what you will find on kind 00:22:31.049 --> 00:22:33.299 of youtube and things like that where you know 00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:36.599 there's so much if you if you're curious about 00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.980 greek and think that it's a sort of terrifying 00:22:39.980 --> 00:22:42.960 kind of dead language or something like that 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.700 and meaning kind of new testament greek obviously 00:22:45.700 --> 00:22:49.480 um there's a great uh youtube channel called 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:52.519 alpha with angela i think and it teaches greek 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:55.859 new testament greek inductively just by kind 00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:59.339 of using objects and stories and cartoons and 00:22:59.339 --> 00:23:02.819 just you know it would be a very slow way to 00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:05.920 learn to read, but I think it makes it a lot 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:07.720 less intimidating if you've never had any experience 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:08.740 with that kind of thing. You think, oh, this 00:23:08.740 --> 00:23:11.359 actually was a language that people spoke and 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.380 interacted with each other. It's not just a kind 00:23:14.380 --> 00:23:18.019 of code to get at words on a page. I think that's 00:23:18.019 --> 00:23:21.359 really helpful. But I mean, there are many, many 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:23.160 books you could pick up. There are Greek grammars 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.019 that are designed for you to kind of work through. 00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:29.789 on your own or with a friend or something like 00:23:29.789 --> 00:23:32.730 that there are places you can go the daily dose 00:23:32.730 --> 00:23:36.789 of greek um is a great resource that has support 00:23:36.789 --> 00:23:38.829 for ongoing reading just reading a verse of greek 00:23:38.829 --> 00:23:41.730 a day in a guided way it also has greek instruction 00:23:41.730 --> 00:23:44.750 videos and links to various other things so there 00:23:44.750 --> 00:23:48.990 are lots of resources out there um yeah there's 00:23:48.990 --> 00:23:51.269 almost too many to even think about no it's really 00:23:51.269 --> 00:23:52.750 helpful to speak to somebody who knows we'll 00:23:52.750 --> 00:23:54.950 make sure we put in the show notes some of those 00:23:54.950 --> 00:23:57.089 links just to guide people in some ways like 00:23:57.089 --> 00:23:59.410 you say there's i can go to youtube and google 00:23:59.410 --> 00:24:01.650 teach you biblical greek and there'll be there'll 00:24:01.650 --> 00:24:03.210 be many options and it's hard to know something 00:24:03.210 --> 00:24:04.369 will be really good and some of them won't be 00:24:04.369 --> 00:24:06.569 yeah where do i start and this person is teaching 00:24:06.569 --> 00:24:08.250 with this textbook and should i listen to that 00:24:08.250 --> 00:24:10.950 and do i want to do it on my own you know there's 00:24:10.950 --> 00:24:12.869 so many options and obviously i'm speaking here 00:24:12.869 --> 00:24:14.190 as the director of engagement at theological 00:24:14.190 --> 00:24:15.809 college i want to be encouraging people that 00:24:15.809 --> 00:24:17.150 if you're passionate about this come and study 00:24:17.150 --> 00:24:19.230 with experts and with teachers and with others 00:24:19.230 --> 00:24:23.630 that is i think we all kind of we know that is 00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:26.480 the best way to learn if that is a circumstance 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.140 you can do it in. But speak maybe then to somebody 00:24:30.140 --> 00:24:32.880 who's listening in, maybe they're a graduate 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:34.640 here from Oak Hill or from somebody else and 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:36.740 they're listening in, they're feeling, yeah, 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.640 okay, I did it for three years, two years, whatever 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:42.079 it is, but I've not managed to keep it going. 00:24:42.859 --> 00:24:45.720 How would you... Well, I think you have encouraged 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:47.519 them to keep it going and to pick it back up 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:49.339 again. But is there particular things? Is it 00:24:49.339 --> 00:24:51.259 the same things again? Is it daily dose of Greek? 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:53.140 Is it find a reading group with others maybe? 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:55.240 Is there a number of those around? Is it those 00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:58.180 kind of things? Yeah, I mean, just getting going 00:24:58.180 --> 00:25:00.720 on something is going to be the most useful thing. 00:25:01.099 --> 00:25:03.319 Part is overcoming that barrier of maybe a sense 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:05.740 of pride that if I kind of admit how far back 00:25:05.740 --> 00:25:07.099 I've come, it's just going to be very difficult 00:25:07.099 --> 00:25:08.579 for me to get it going again. And I might have 00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:10.680 to show some weakness to someone else, which 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:12.640 we're not very good at typically. But yeah, I 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.039 mean, one of the best ways is a reading group 00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:16.039 because there's some accountability, there's 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:18.519 relationship, there's, you know, you can sign 00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.140 up and do it with other people. The Daily Dosa 00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:23.940 Greek I've mentioned, you can just sign up and 00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:25.539 they'll send you an email that just has a two 00:25:25.539 --> 00:25:28.559 minute video that will give you, you know, a 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:31.599 verse a day. And that's just a little bit of 00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:33.859 input that just helps you keep it going. There 00:25:33.859 --> 00:25:36.559 are a couple of books of devotions from the Greek 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.619 New Testament where you get a verse or a short 00:25:39.619 --> 00:25:43.029 passage and there's a... page and a half that's 00:25:43.029 --> 00:25:45.869 usually in some way drawn from a grammatical 00:25:45.869 --> 00:25:47.829 observation but then makes a kind of devotional 00:25:47.829 --> 00:25:50.349 point you could you could pick up one of those 00:25:50.349 --> 00:25:53.369 and do that but just getting back into it's like 00:25:53.369 --> 00:25:57.690 you could if you're a pastor and you're preaching 00:25:57.690 --> 00:26:00.809 or teaching regularly then just make it your 00:26:00.809 --> 00:26:03.849 goal whatever sermon you're going to preach just 00:26:03.849 --> 00:26:06.289 try and work from you know take your passage 00:26:06.289 --> 00:26:10.089 read the first verse in the original language 00:26:10.089 --> 00:26:12.470 try to translate it even if it takes you it seems 00:26:12.470 --> 00:26:15.289 like an awful long time do the first verse every 00:26:15.289 --> 00:26:18.569 every week for a while do the first two verses 00:26:18.569 --> 00:26:22.549 and it will get faster over time but you have 00:26:22.549 --> 00:26:25.869 to get over that sense of you know this this 00:26:25.869 --> 00:26:28.990 is you know i feel like a beginner again i think 00:26:28.990 --> 00:26:33.049 you know yeah or it seems inefficient yeah yeah 00:26:33.049 --> 00:26:36.279 it feels like a bad use of time initially But 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:37.839 you have to trust that actually the sooner you 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:39.259 get going on it, the more fruit it will bear 00:26:39.259 --> 00:26:41.839 longer term. And actually that fruit will probably 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:44.079 come sooner than you think if you get stuck into 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:47.720 it. That's really helpful. Now, you've come into 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:50.119 our, where we record these with a couple of books, 00:26:50.259 --> 00:26:53.000 a couple of giant books and small books. Tell 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.819 us a bit about those. How can they help us think 00:26:55.819 --> 00:26:58.240 this through? I thought I'd bring these because 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.299 this is... This is one of the most intimidating 00:27:01.299 --> 00:27:03.859 -looking books. That's huge. As in, if you are 00:27:03.859 --> 00:27:06.119 not watching on YouTube, and you can watch these 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.079 on YouTube, I'm going to say that's the size 00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:13.200 of four normal books. It's 1 ,400 pages, roughly. 00:27:13.819 --> 00:27:15.980 It's a good doorstop. It's a very good doorstop, 00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:18.140 and this is about 100 years old, and this is 00:27:18.140 --> 00:27:20.299 a grammar of New Testament Greek, and it's a 00:27:20.299 --> 00:27:22.059 pretty advanced one. This is like a reference 00:27:22.059 --> 00:27:24.079 grammar. It's not one that you would ever work 00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.430 through in a class, really. Really, really chunky. 00:27:26.529 --> 00:27:28.650 And people think, well, all my worst fears are 00:27:28.650 --> 00:27:30.130 confirmed. This is the kind of thing I'm going 00:27:30.130 --> 00:27:32.150 to be forced to look at. But the guy who wrote 00:27:32.150 --> 00:27:35.069 this also wrote this little book, which is, I 00:27:35.069 --> 00:27:38.930 guess, 100 pages, so a lot shorter, called The 00:27:38.930 --> 00:27:41.690 Minister and His Greek New Testament. And it's 00:27:41.690 --> 00:27:45.890 essentially this Greek grammarian's plea that 00:27:45.890 --> 00:27:49.910 people should use and keep their Greek in ministry. 00:27:50.490 --> 00:27:52.009 And when I was flicking through it, it amazed 00:27:52.009 --> 00:27:54.930 me that most of his arguments and what he's saying, 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:59.480 are not to do with kind of intense academic study. 00:27:59.660 --> 00:28:01.900 They're all about preaching and the value of 00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:03.400 Greek for preaching and how you want the text 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:05.380 to come alive for people, how you want to understand 00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:08.579 it, how rewarding it is for your own devotional 00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:11.779 life and for your congregation, for the people 00:28:11.779 --> 00:28:14.880 you're ministering among. And you can sort of 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:16.279 think somebody who would write a massive book 00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:18.900 like that isn't going to be interested in that 00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:20.720 kind of thing, and therefore they're not going 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:23.059 to understand where I'm coming from, but actually 00:28:23.059 --> 00:28:26.619 his heart. is um is in you know preaching to 00:28:26.619 --> 00:28:29.039 people and teaching people the gospel um and 00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:32.099 it i guess it's an encouragement that that's 00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:34.519 where we want to be and the languages can help 00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:36.500 us to do that they're not like a distraction 00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:38.960 from that rightly understood if somebody can 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.960 write an intense 1400 page book like that can 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.440 keep the main thing the main thing then we should 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:48.519 be able to as well probably the final audience 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:50.539 of i'm predicting might be listening is somebody 00:28:50.539 --> 00:28:55.319 who's They're listening to preaching week by 00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.420 week. They're reading the Bible themselves. Maybe 00:28:58.420 --> 00:29:01.859 feeling that languages themselves might not necessarily 00:29:01.859 --> 00:29:03.380 be something they're able to do right now, maybe 00:29:03.380 --> 00:29:06.740 in the future. But is there a way for ordinary 00:29:06.740 --> 00:29:09.460 believers to cultivate this kind of love for 00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:12.940 the texture and nuance of scripture, even within 00:29:12.940 --> 00:29:16.079 translation? Is there ways you'd recommend that? 00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:19.619 Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, just reading 00:29:19.619 --> 00:29:21.819 the Bible and thinking carefully about it are 00:29:21.819 --> 00:29:23.779 going to be the best ways to do that and paying 00:29:23.779 --> 00:29:25.779 attention to the differences in genre, paying 00:29:25.779 --> 00:29:28.539 attention to details, taking your time through 00:29:28.539 --> 00:29:31.319 the text, reading it slowly and prayerfully and 00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:34.759 using resources to help you get into that. All 00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:36.359 sorts of resources to help you understand how 00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:40.200 to read different genres and think about them. 00:29:40.259 --> 00:29:42.819 And it's not long before you see actually how 00:29:42.819 --> 00:29:47.640 the languages bear on that. good study bible 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:49.079 and there are many good study bibles out there 00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.460 you'll soon see in the notes that they'll say 00:29:51.460 --> 00:29:53.099 well this you know this word is also found over 00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:54.880 here and kind of means this and you'll see connections 00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:58.500 and word play all over the place and you'll start 00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:01.859 to see actually the richness of scripture in 00:30:01.859 --> 00:30:06.339 that sense and it's not you know knowledge of 00:30:06.339 --> 00:30:08.279 detail for the sake of knowledge it's not just 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:10.660 so you can kind of have a lot of information 00:30:10.660 --> 00:30:14.039 it actually does help you to understand things 00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:17.759 and love the text and ultimately love the Lord 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.819 more. I mean, that's the goal at the end of the 00:30:19.819 --> 00:30:22.480 day. It's not worship of the Bible itself, but 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.640 of the Lord Jesus. Great. Just to close, well, 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:27.279 to be fair, if somebody's got this far and they've 00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:28.740 listened to us so far, then it should be very 00:30:28.740 --> 00:30:32.380 clear. But if you could summarise then that question 00:30:32.380 --> 00:30:34.359 right at the start, why is it worth bothering 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:38.039 with biblical languages still? If you could summarise 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.420 that, what would be your one sentence plea if 00:30:40.420 --> 00:30:42.140 you were speaking to somebody who just kind of 00:30:42.140 --> 00:30:43.920 goes, Andrew, come on, it's not really worth 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:46.410 it. Well, ultimately, because the word of God 00:30:46.410 --> 00:30:49.569 is worth bothering with, God chose to give us 00:30:49.569 --> 00:30:52.990 his word in these languages. We have very good 00:30:52.990 --> 00:30:54.930 translations. Translations will always need to 00:30:54.930 --> 00:30:58.250 be revised. They'll always be imperfect. And 00:30:58.250 --> 00:31:02.150 we want to get as close to the word of God as 00:31:02.150 --> 00:31:04.269 we can. James, our principal, describes reading 00:31:04.269 --> 00:31:07.730 Hebrew like versus the English like kissing your 00:31:07.730 --> 00:31:10.829 bride through a veil. Or, you know, why not take 00:31:10.829 --> 00:31:13.490 the veil away, the translation away? If that's 00:31:13.490 --> 00:31:16.690 an image that works for you, then great. But, 00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:19.809 you know, we want to be in the word of God and 00:31:19.809 --> 00:31:23.589 God in his divine sovereignty chose to give us 00:31:23.589 --> 00:31:27.809 words in Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic. Wonderful. 00:31:28.849 --> 00:31:31.369 Andrew, thanks for sharing your wisdom with us. 00:31:31.369 --> 00:31:33.289 As we kind of mentioned there, if you are listening 00:31:33.289 --> 00:31:36.190 in and you want to keep your Greek going, we 00:31:36.190 --> 00:31:39.079 do have the Greek reading group. We'll find another 00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:41.980 time if we fill up on that and try and work out 00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:45.319 a way. We have a couple of Hebrew and Greek refresher, 00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:48.900 kind of 26 hours of, I think we call them retreats. 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:51.220 They're probably quite intense, 26 hours of Greek 00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:53.700 and Hebrew. Yeah, but a lot of fun as well, I 00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:56.660 think. Here at Oak Hill, food, time together 00:31:56.660 --> 00:31:59.359 with others. We're passionate, as we said, about 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:01.279 biblical language. And if you're thinking about 00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:04.160 studying, if you're thinking about future training 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:06.700 for ministry. We're really passionate. We'd love 00:32:06.700 --> 00:32:07.960 to talk to you about biblical languages, about 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:10.819 how we teach people. We've talked about teaching 00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:12.799 people with different backgrounds and experiences, 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.200 those maybe with additional needs, those who 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.539 are coming with a lot of experience. We're passionate 00:32:17.539 --> 00:32:19.539 about trying to help anybody who wants to understand 00:32:19.539 --> 00:32:21.920 and be able to read the biblical languages and 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:24.839 make use of them. So we'd love to talk to you 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:28.920 about that. But that's us for this week. Thanks 00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:31.910 for joining us on Deep Roots. Please do, as always, 00:32:31.970 --> 00:32:33.650 get in touch. You can get in touch on social 00:32:33.650 --> 00:32:35.809 media. You can get in touch via email to communications 00:32:35.809 --> 00:32:38.269 at oakhill .ac .uk. If you've got any questions, 00:32:38.470 --> 00:32:40.349 topics you want us to cover, things you want 00:32:40.349 --> 00:32:42.089 us to talk about, any more questions for Andrew, 00:32:42.190 --> 00:32:44.390 maybe this has really sparked interest in bigger 00:32:44.390 --> 00:32:46.309 questions, deeper questions, we could ask a number 00:32:46.309 --> 00:32:48.329 of those as well. But thanks for listening in. 00:32:48.450 --> 00:32:50.089 Thanks for joining us. And we'll see you again 00:32:50.089 --> 00:32:50.269 soon.