WEBVTT 00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:10.939 Well, a very warm welcome to a new edition of 00:00:10.939 --> 00:00:13.740 Oak Hill College's Deep Roots podcast. My name's 00:00:13.740 --> 00:00:16.899 Chris Howells. I serve as director of cross -cultural 00:00:16.899 --> 00:00:20.219 training here at the college. I'm well aware 00:00:20.219 --> 00:00:23.280 that my voice is a little bit croaky today, or 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:26.500 a lot croaky. Listeners, viewers, please don't 00:00:26.500 --> 00:00:29.320 worry. I feel a lot better than I probably sound. 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:32.439 Thank you in advance for your patience. The good 00:00:32.439 --> 00:00:34.899 news is that we're not here to listen to me, 00:00:35.020 --> 00:00:38.100 but much more our two special guests. who are 00:00:38.100 --> 00:00:40.500 joining us today. We're very pleased to welcome 00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:44.100 both Bradley Bell and Larry McCrary from the 00:00:44.100 --> 00:00:47.619 US and from an organisation called the Upstream 00:00:47.619 --> 00:00:51.340 Collective. We're pleased to be with you this 00:00:51.340 --> 00:00:54.500 afternoon and really want to hear more about 00:00:54.500 --> 00:00:57.740 what Upstream is and what it does. So, Larry, 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.740 if we could start with you, tell us a little 00:01:00.740 --> 00:01:04.819 bit about your role within the Upstream Collective 00:01:04.819 --> 00:01:07.540 and what Upstream Collective aims to do. to do 00:01:07.540 --> 00:01:10.540 as an organization? Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so 00:01:10.540 --> 00:01:14.519 16 years ago, we were missionaries here in Europe 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:18.959 and doing church planting, disciple making, and 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:20.859 we recognized just a couple of things that kind 00:01:20.859 --> 00:01:24.859 of bugged us when it came to missions. One is 00:01:24.859 --> 00:01:27.180 that we were trying to engage people that were 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:30.280 professional business people, and we recognized 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:35.310 that quite a few people that really did a great 00:01:35.310 --> 00:01:39.109 job of connecting. engaging people with the gospel. 00:01:39.310 --> 00:01:43.129 They had access to these people. They had sustainability 00:01:43.129 --> 00:01:45.909 because they worked for a living. They had a 00:01:45.909 --> 00:01:49.209 marketplace job, but yet they were from England 00:01:49.209 --> 00:01:53.530 or Norway or Sweden, the U .S., Canada, Mexico, 00:01:53.590 --> 00:01:56.769 and they were sent to that part of the world 00:01:56.769 --> 00:01:59.349 by their companies. But they loved Jesus and 00:01:59.349 --> 00:02:01.209 wanted to live intentionally. And we just thought 00:02:01.209 --> 00:02:03.709 that was such a beautiful thing. And in our missionary 00:02:03.709 --> 00:02:06.689 efforts, we thought, Wow, they really are better 00:02:06.689 --> 00:02:10.610 than we are. And so we started diving in. Why 00:02:10.610 --> 00:02:14.629 is that? What are the things that we can learn 00:02:14.629 --> 00:02:17.289 from that? Not just leveraging them and working 00:02:17.289 --> 00:02:20.229 with them as a teammate, but we learned that 00:02:20.229 --> 00:02:22.629 their churches that they came from had really 00:02:22.629 --> 00:02:26.389 discipled them at a deep level to live sent. 00:02:27.180 --> 00:02:30.680 And we've recognized a lot at times in our own 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:33.319 churches, that's not the case. We've kind of 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:36.599 separated vocational missionary to marketplace 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:41.120 missionary and lay people and clergy opposed 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:44.639 to really seeing everyone, every Christ follower, 00:02:44.780 --> 00:02:48.939 spirit living in them is a sent one. Some are 00:02:48.939 --> 00:02:51.939 called across cultural ministry, vocationally, 00:02:51.939 --> 00:02:55.740 totally fine. Some are called into business and 00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:58.159 they... do their business to the best and the 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:01.419 glory of God, but they're also able to be salt, 00:03:01.539 --> 00:03:05.460 light, and ambassadors. That meant a lot to us 00:03:05.460 --> 00:03:08.120 in those early days of Upstream. How do we help 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:12.860 the church really help their people think and 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:15.500 act like a missionary? And then as we started... 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:19.000 developing Upstream, we recognized that there's 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:21.939 another thing that sort of bothered us, that 00:03:21.939 --> 00:03:24.599 we met a lot of people that were sent out by 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:27.699 their church and forgotten, abandoned. They were 00:03:27.699 --> 00:03:31.280 sent out as missionaries, but the church forgot 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:33.939 about them. And when we put these things together, 00:03:34.219 --> 00:03:37.840 we recognized that one of the things, one of 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:41.120 the problems that we see was that the church 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:44.280 was outsourcing the Great Commission. Whether 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.740 because it was more efficient or more pragmatic, 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:50.240 it was a lot easier to let the professionals 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.500 do it, to let the organizations do it. Nothing 00:03:53.500 --> 00:03:57.439 wrong with organizations. We are one. But it's 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:00.960 our role as an organization is to help the church 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:03.620 send well. And that's what we've developed into 00:04:03.620 --> 00:04:06.080 as we've kind of grown up as an organization 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:09.400 in the teenage years. We really want to help 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:13.449 the church do sending well. The Great Commission 00:04:13.449 --> 00:04:15.530 was given to the church. How do we help them 00:04:15.530 --> 00:04:19.889 do it? Not the church help us do the Great Commission 00:04:19.889 --> 00:04:22.709 because we're the organization. And so I think 00:04:22.709 --> 00:04:26.529 through that in our writing of books and as we're 00:04:26.529 --> 00:04:30.189 equipping the church, as we're sending the church, 00:04:30.410 --> 00:04:33.310 we really exist to help the church send well. 00:04:33.509 --> 00:04:37.079 And yeah, the church sends and we help. Thank 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:39.959 you. The church sends, we help. Brad, if we could 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:42.579 come to you, you work with Lariat, the Upstream 00:04:42.579 --> 00:04:44.240 Collective. I know you're particularly involved 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:48.680 in resourcing and equipping, teaching. The church 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.620 sends, we help. Very often, certainly in the 00:04:51.620 --> 00:04:55.769 UK context, it can be that... We think that mission 00:04:55.769 --> 00:04:58.970 agencies send missionaries and the church is 00:04:58.970 --> 00:05:01.509 there to help them. A bit of money, a bit of 00:05:01.509 --> 00:05:05.209 prayer here and there where possible, where capacity 00:05:05.209 --> 00:05:08.009 allows. But actually this tagline you have, the 00:05:08.009 --> 00:05:12.170 church sends, we help, flips that common pattern 00:05:12.170 --> 00:05:14.470 that we see. Could you speak a little bit more 00:05:14.470 --> 00:05:17.350 into that? What might that look like? And why 00:05:17.350 --> 00:05:20.250 have you chosen to flip what seems to have been 00:05:20.250 --> 00:05:23.230 so common over the past few decades or even centuries? 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:26.259 Sure. That's a great question, Chris. Thank you. 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:29.600 So when we look at the scriptures, we see our 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.819 resurrected Lord ascend to heaven. He's seated 00:05:32.819 --> 00:05:35.259 at the right hand of the Father, and he sends 00:05:35.259 --> 00:05:39.060 forth the Holy Spirit upon his church. And when 00:05:39.060 --> 00:05:43.000 he does that, he is unleashing a mighty river 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:47.920 of mission that's meant to flow through his church. 00:05:48.220 --> 00:05:50.720 And in the early church, you see that happening. 00:05:51.290 --> 00:05:53.329 For example, in the church at Antioch in Acts 00:05:53.329 --> 00:05:55.829 11 through 18, there are different instances 00:05:55.829 --> 00:05:58.649 where this church has the mission of God flowing 00:05:58.649 --> 00:06:02.589 very clearly into their very cross -cultural 00:06:02.589 --> 00:06:05.850 context, but then outward and even further beyond 00:06:05.850 --> 00:06:09.149 them into the Gentile world. You see it continue 00:06:09.149 --> 00:06:11.970 to develop in other instances after the book 00:06:11.970 --> 00:06:14.310 of Acts that we know from church history. But 00:06:14.310 --> 00:06:20.410 marking the point really where the... the church 00:06:20.410 --> 00:06:24.089 became associated with the state, you know, a 00:06:24.089 --> 00:06:27.449 post -Constantine sort of shift. At that point, 00:06:27.509 --> 00:06:31.110 scholars note that what was a church -centric 00:06:31.110 --> 00:06:34.610 phenomenon becomes almost a church -adjacent 00:06:34.610 --> 00:06:37.910 phenomenon. And there are lots of other factors 00:06:37.910 --> 00:06:39.629 that contribute to this throughout the years 00:06:39.629 --> 00:06:42.209 that we could point to, maybe in a more modern 00:06:42.209 --> 00:06:45.839 end of things, the professionalization. of missions 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:49.000 where you have almost a system of hierarchy. 00:06:49.259 --> 00:06:53.259 There are those who are qualified to do God's 00:06:53.259 --> 00:06:55.480 work and mission and those who are maybe not 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:59.579 qualified to do it. Because of that as well, 00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:03.000 you see the church being on the shore of this 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.620 mighty river that was meant to be flowing through 00:07:06.620 --> 00:07:15.439 it. Our name is described upstream. We're pushing 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:18.860 against that mainstream current. Now, mainstream 00:07:18.860 --> 00:07:23.899 missions has been effective in many ways, and 00:07:23.899 --> 00:07:28.639 God's used our efforts wonderfully. But as we 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:30.220 look at Scripture, we just feel the conviction 00:07:30.220 --> 00:07:32.540 that we want to help churches get back toward 00:07:32.540 --> 00:07:36.720 that biblical vision, finding their particular 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:41.240 role and identity in His global mission. not 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:45.560 to the exclusion of organizations, but as a major 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:47.899 part, a reawakening to their birthright in the 00:07:47.899 --> 00:07:50.079 Great Commission. And that's pushing upstream 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:52.699 against the current. If you go against the current 00:07:52.699 --> 00:07:56.220 in the Thames, it's going to be hard going. So 00:07:56.220 --> 00:07:59.060 it's not a popular movement, but it is a growing 00:07:59.060 --> 00:08:02.740 movement around the world of churches who want 00:08:02.740 --> 00:08:05.860 to send well. So that's where we start with the 00:08:05.860 --> 00:08:08.579 church, and we're going to help them. rather 00:08:08.579 --> 00:08:11.139 than take it away from them. Thank you so very 00:08:11.139 --> 00:08:14.360 much. And so you're here at Sokil College the 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:17.060 next couple of days. You're helping to engage 00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:19.500 with students and staff in a number of different 00:08:19.500 --> 00:08:22.560 forums to encourage all of us to think through 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:25.560 what it looks like for the local church to be 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:30.459 deeply involved in a primary way in the ascending 00:08:30.459 --> 00:08:35.179 globally of mission partners. Let me dig into 00:08:35.179 --> 00:08:38.100 that a little bit. Last year, we at the college 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:40.419 gave a gift to each of our students. And it was 00:08:40.419 --> 00:08:42.659 a book that you both wrote with two colleagues 00:08:42.659 --> 00:08:47.000 called Descending Church Applied. Now, on the 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:50.399 back of this book, there is a periodic table. 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:54.000 It looks like what I learned at chemistry class 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:56.840 back at school. Unhappy memories for me, I must 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:02.440 say. Exactly. elements but this isn't gold or 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:07.779 silver or iron or um or whatever this is 17 different 00:09:07.779 --> 00:09:10.740 elements of how a local church can be involved 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:15.649 in sending globally. Could you just speak to 00:09:15.649 --> 00:09:17.690 a little bit, before we get into some of the 00:09:17.690 --> 00:09:21.129 detail of that, why did you decide to put together 00:09:21.129 --> 00:09:26.769 this table of elements summarizing how a local 00:09:26.769 --> 00:09:30.889 church can think and send globally? I think it 00:09:30.889 --> 00:09:34.529 started with, you know, we started working with 00:09:34.529 --> 00:09:36.950 more and more churches and mission leaders in 00:09:36.950 --> 00:09:39.590 the churches. And we got together, you know, 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:42.639 many years ago, and just really put together 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:46.399 a very long sentence. And I think it's grammatically 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:49.980 correct. It's Pauline. It was Pauline, exactly. 00:09:51.059 --> 00:09:53.799 And it's called, How Do You Define a Sending 00:09:53.799 --> 00:09:56.179 Church? And so we defined the sending church, 00:09:56.379 --> 00:09:59.139 and we asked this man right here to write a book 00:09:59.139 --> 00:10:03.759 on sending church to find. And he took every 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:08.179 single word and made it a chapter. And that became 00:10:08.179 --> 00:10:11.419 really our manifesto. It's what we really believe 00:10:11.419 --> 00:10:14.559 about the sending church. And as we started rolling 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:18.159 that out and teaching it to more and more churches, 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:21.539 we just recognized as we were working with churches, 00:10:21.620 --> 00:10:24.600 as we were part of churches, we just recognized 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.720 there's probably 17 elements that just really 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.559 kept sticking out. Hey, these are important. 00:10:29.100 --> 00:10:31.879 And then we categorized them. And then literally. 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:34.200 I don't think any of us came up with the idea 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:36.179 of the design. We gave it our graphic artist, 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:40.039 and she came up with the idea of a periodic table, 00:10:40.220 --> 00:10:42.799 which I did not do very well in chemistry as 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:45.919 well. But yeah, so it kind of came out that way, 00:10:45.980 --> 00:10:49.379 evolving from our definition of sending church. 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.639 Thank you. So these 17 elements on this periodic 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:57.159 table of global missions for the local church 00:10:57.159 --> 00:11:00.700 are categorized into four different groups. And 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:04.659 the first group, the first five elements you've 00:11:04.659 --> 00:11:09.600 summarized as the establishing phase. So I've 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:13.539 noticed in many churches in the UK. The way we 00:11:13.539 --> 00:11:16.120 think about global missions is often that we 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.659 will go about our day -to -day business. Church 00:11:18.659 --> 00:11:22.740 life is very full on all the time. And if someone 00:11:22.740 --> 00:11:25.480 comes to us from within the local church and 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:29.639 says, I feel the Lord is prompting me, calling 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:32.679 me into cross -cultural global service in some 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:35.379 way, shape or form. That will be a good thing. 00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:38.159 That will largely be appreciated and celebrated. 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.080 And we will kind of take it from there. But it's 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:45.500 quite a reactive posture. I think this first 00:11:45.500 --> 00:11:48.720 phase, what you're trying to encourage is a proactive 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.720 posture, one that says the first role of a church 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:57.600 is to establish and cultivate missional convictions 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:02.539 about global mission sending in the day -to -day 00:12:02.539 --> 00:12:05.519 rhythms of the church. Could you speak a little 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:08.539 bit about that? What might it look like for a 00:12:08.539 --> 00:12:12.190 church to develop those convictions? Yeah, so 00:12:12.190 --> 00:12:16.490 I think convictions really begins with a foundation 00:12:16.490 --> 00:12:19.870 of theology rooted in who God is as a sending 00:12:19.870 --> 00:12:23.389 God. We see rooted in his character that between 00:12:23.389 --> 00:12:25.429 Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, there is union 00:12:25.429 --> 00:12:28.509 and communion from eternity past. And there is 00:12:28.509 --> 00:12:31.330 the giving and receiving. There is the expression, 00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:35.370 the receptivity of love, affection, all the beautiful 00:12:35.370 --> 00:12:37.850 things that make up our God. And then out of 00:12:37.850 --> 00:12:41.470 the overflow of that, there is mission. And it 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:44.750 makes sense because it's who God is as an outward 00:12:44.750 --> 00:12:47.870 -oriented sending God, we might say. Language 00:12:47.870 --> 00:12:50.470 fails us. But I'm stepping away from the use 00:12:50.470 --> 00:12:53.309 of missions in general because that's actually 00:12:53.309 --> 00:12:55.690 not language we see in Scripture. That's language 00:12:55.690 --> 00:12:59.909 that we're using to describe what we see in Scripture. 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:03.029 But when it comes to receiving, sending, sent 00:13:03.029 --> 00:13:05.309 ones, you see it from Genesis to Revelation. 00:13:05.750 --> 00:13:09.580 And so our sending God... is where we need to 00:13:09.580 --> 00:13:12.820 start in churches to lay a foundation for cultivating 00:13:12.820 --> 00:13:16.080 missions awareness and convictions because you 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.879 help people to realize if God is ascending God 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:21.980 by his very nature, then the moment I enter into 00:13:21.980 --> 00:13:24.960 Christ, the moment I am baptized in the name 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:26.620 of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:29.559 and I'm starting to be caught up in this beautiful 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:33.639 communion that we see in the Godhead, I am sent 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:37.950 as well. I become a sender and a sent one as 00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:43.730 a little Christ. And so if you start with identity 00:13:43.730 --> 00:13:46.230 that is built from theology, you're awakening 00:13:46.230 --> 00:13:49.309 every single person in your congregation to who 00:13:49.309 --> 00:13:52.149 they already are, rather than trying to convince 00:13:52.149 --> 00:13:55.049 them to add on missions as something else that 00:13:55.049 --> 00:13:57.210 they should care about in addition to everything 00:13:57.210 --> 00:13:59.769 else that's going on in their plate. And that 00:13:59.769 --> 00:14:02.809 can then become the lens through which the entire 00:14:02.809 --> 00:14:06.299 church is shaped. No longer is missions a ministry 00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:09.179 that's a slice of the pie. It's the very reason 00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:12.480 why our church even exists. You know, in a context 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:18.840 like the US or the UK, like we're Gentiles, not 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.440 in Jerusalem, to whom the gospel has come. Therefore, 00:14:22.539 --> 00:14:26.340 our very existence is a testimony, a living witness 00:14:26.340 --> 00:14:31.279 that there is a global missional phenomenon happening. 00:14:31.580 --> 00:14:34.960 And if that is already true of us, then how much 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:37.340 more are we encouraged to then live into who 00:14:37.340 --> 00:14:40.919 we already are? No guilt, no shame. Don't you 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:42.399 care about unreached people groups? Don't you 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.559 give enough money? No, it's who you are. And 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.980 so missions convictions then becomes a compass 00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:52.519 to guide the church in determining how do we 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.480 steward our limited resources well. Resources 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:00.600 being time, people, energy, money. The church 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:04.399 doesn't have unlimited assets to work with. So 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:06.620 how can we steward it most effectively to have 00:15:06.620 --> 00:15:09.960 the deepest impact, maybe in a fewer number of 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:13.919 places, but that impact will not only lead to 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:15.779 the multiplication of disciples in churches, 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.019 hopefully, but it also will have a reciprocal 00:15:18.019 --> 00:15:21.200 impact back on our congregation as we go into 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.409 deep relationships with the people. we encounter 00:15:24.409 --> 00:15:26.870 cross -culturally there and pour our lives into. 00:15:27.149 --> 00:15:29.389 So missions convictions are not the same for 00:15:29.389 --> 00:15:31.629 every single congregation. There's something 00:15:31.629 --> 00:15:33.470 that we come alongside churches to help them 00:15:33.470 --> 00:15:36.769 foster and develop and wrestle with to see what 00:15:36.769 --> 00:15:40.250 is it that God is calling us uniquely to contribute 00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:43.860 to his global mission. Brad, thank you. Just 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:46.600 to follow up on that briefly. So you're saying 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:51.679 that what mission sending looks like for an individual 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:55.100 local church will not be the same, that there 00:15:55.100 --> 00:15:59.659 are cultural, historical, contextual factors 00:15:59.659 --> 00:16:04.220 that will determine what being sent looks like. 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.190 And that will be different for each church. Absolutely. 00:16:07.370 --> 00:16:09.529 It would be so much easier for us if we could 00:16:09.529 --> 00:16:11.230 just say, hey, these are your missions convictions 00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:13.970 based on good theology. This is what your church 00:16:13.970 --> 00:16:17.190 should strategically do in missions. But that's 00:16:17.190 --> 00:16:21.970 not relying on the work of the Holy Spirit wed 00:16:21.970 --> 00:16:26.450 to God's word to bring about an expression of 00:16:26.450 --> 00:16:29.590 the kingdom in and through that local body that 00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:33.970 is unique and ordained by Christ. And I think 00:16:33.970 --> 00:16:37.509 often churches will start, we have convictions, 00:16:37.669 --> 00:16:41.350 vision, strategy. And I think often churches 00:16:41.350 --> 00:16:45.269 will, because mission is activity, we're doing 00:16:45.269 --> 00:16:48.950 short -term trips. We're going to go help people 00:16:48.950 --> 00:16:51.230 from international places that live in our city. 00:16:51.350 --> 00:16:54.230 We're going to send out a missionary or support 00:16:54.230 --> 00:16:56.330 a mission organization. It's about activity. 00:16:56.789 --> 00:16:59.940 We really believe that convictions. really is 00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:02.679 the starting point. But most churches start with 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:07.059 strategy and maybe vision. And as we have worked 00:17:07.059 --> 00:17:10.519 with them and learned from them and learned that 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:12.680 it's often they're going back and said, OK, maybe 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:15.240 we should start our convictions because that's 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.460 going to be your big yes inside. This is why 00:17:18.460 --> 00:17:21.200 we do what we do when it comes to mission. And 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.880 every church is different. And I think churches 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.519 have their sweet spot. They may have a passion 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.480 for a part of the world that. God has given them. 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.220 They may have experience from people that are 00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:34.119 in the church from that part of the world or 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:36.960 traveling. They may be in certain sectors like 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.559 medical or finance or agriculture or students. 00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:44.059 Working with a church now, it's beautiful. It's 00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:47.559 a young church and mostly university students. 00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:51.759 And they're just seeing that they have this vision 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:56.000 for reaching campuses all around the world. But 00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:01.579 it came out of... This idea of a conviction of 00:18:01.579 --> 00:18:05.559 if we can reach the university campuses, then 00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:08.700 it can make a difference in that city and in 00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:12.619 that country and as the students go out. So the 00:18:12.619 --> 00:18:14.380 convictions really drive that. That's your why. 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.700 Vision is what do you want to do, and then strategy 00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:21.700 is how. And so we bookend that with how do you 00:18:21.700 --> 00:18:24.880 help the church create this awareness? And I 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:27.579 believe one reason why we have a lot of reactivity 00:18:27.579 --> 00:18:30.240 when it comes to mission is that we've cast this 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.000 big net, you know, God loves the world, and so 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.579 should we, and we mobilize like that. And convictions 00:18:36.579 --> 00:18:39.460 and vision and strategy, when they're lined up, 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:41.640 they're actually going to be mobilizing more 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:47.000 specifically. maybe a place or people or, you 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.740 know, region of the world and there and you've 00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:52.259 got the church, it's all going in the same direction. 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:55.339 And you start thinking proactively, are there 00:18:55.339 --> 00:18:59.160 people that we can send to the nations? Are there 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.599 marketplace people? Can we send our students? 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:05.119 And for so long in the modern mission movement, 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:07.660 you know, it's been the long term vocational 00:19:07.660 --> 00:19:10.740 missionary. Totally fine. We need that. God's 00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:13.180 still working in that way. And then recently, 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:16.380 it's more short -term missions. But we're forgetting 00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:19.480 that there's this wide gamut. You can work in 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:21.519 a lot of countries in the world now remotely. 00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:27.359 You can, retirees can go. and use their pension 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:29.859 and their savings and live in a place for a year 00:19:29.859 --> 00:19:32.839 or six months, whatever it be, and connect missionally. 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.579 Students can do their entire degree in a different... 00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:38.980 What if all of those lined up and the church 00:19:38.980 --> 00:19:42.420 was really focusing proactively of how do we 00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:45.880 engage that people wherever they live, in our 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.559 city and around the world? And I think the more 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.259 specific we'll be, I think the more we'll be 00:19:52.259 --> 00:19:56.940 able to be proactive. Thank you. I love that 00:19:56.940 --> 00:20:01.019 thought of shifting from a reactivity to proactivity 00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:05.460 by establishing our mission convictions that 00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:08.519 are individual and God gifted to each of us as 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:12.200 distinct contextual local churches with the histories, 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.640 traditions, trajectories that we've got. So thank 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:19.200 you for that. On your periodic table of elements, 00:20:19.579 --> 00:20:22.940 sending church elements, the second category. 00:20:23.369 --> 00:20:27.390 after establishing mission convictions and developing 00:20:27.390 --> 00:20:30.529 that vision. The second category is developing 00:20:30.529 --> 00:20:34.769 cross -cultural workers. That could be everything 00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:38.650 from identifying potential missionaries, assessing 00:20:38.650 --> 00:20:42.130 their suitability and equipping, training and 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:45.390 developing them. Is that not something that a 00:20:45.390 --> 00:20:48.329 mission agency would do? Or you're saying that 00:20:48.329 --> 00:20:51.589 actually the primary work in identifying and 00:20:51.589 --> 00:20:55.269 equipping potential cross -cultural workers is 00:20:55.269 --> 00:20:58.869 through the local church? In outsourcing missions 00:20:58.869 --> 00:21:04.670 over history of missions, we might say malpractice. 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:09.400 What has happened a lot of times in churches 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:12.240 handing off their own members that they have 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:15.140 responsibility to shepherd and care for and handing 00:21:15.140 --> 00:21:17.680 off those members to a missions organization. 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.220 Again, we're not opposed to missions organizations 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.319 nor critical of them, but in this phenomenon, 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:28.259 it's become a transactional relationship that 00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:33.119 the church has with their own sent one. In that, 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:37.140 okay, we're transitioning you over to the agency. 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:41.740 Well, the agency then employs them and takes 00:21:41.740 --> 00:21:44.119 them, walks with them to the field, whatever 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:46.720 experience they have. When that comes to an end, 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.960 the employment is over. The missions agency doesn't 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.079 come home with the worker, doesn't care for them 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:54.259 as they recover from what they've experienced 00:21:54.259 --> 00:21:56.980 and adjust back into the next season of life. 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:01.640 It's transactional back into the church. And 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:05.319 what we're advocating for, again, as an argument 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:07.880 from Scripture, is rather than transactional, 00:22:07.900 --> 00:22:13.109 covenantal. Like a member... is still under the 00:22:13.109 --> 00:22:15.750 shepherding care of the church, and the church 00:22:15.750 --> 00:22:18.250 maintains some measure of that responsibility. 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:20.660 in partnership with the missions organization, 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.380 because the reality is the church is not going 00:22:23.380 --> 00:22:26.000 to go to the field and be there on the ground 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.819 day to day. They're not going to be giving oversight 00:22:28.819 --> 00:22:33.319 and subverting their decision making on the field 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:34.859 or any of that sort of thing. There's got to 00:22:34.859 --> 00:22:38.119 be partnership there. But they still have a significant 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.359 place at the table in the life of the missionary. 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.500 And that's understood between the church, the 00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:48.349 missionary. and the missions organization as 00:22:48.349 --> 00:22:50.869 an interdependent relationship. The difficulty 00:22:50.869 --> 00:22:52.809 that we found over the years that churches have 00:22:52.809 --> 00:22:56.089 spoken to us as they buy into sending theology 00:22:56.089 --> 00:22:59.950 and an idea is, you know, we are struggling to 00:22:59.950 --> 00:23:02.569 find missions organizations that value the local 00:23:02.569 --> 00:23:05.250 church in such a way that they will allow us, 00:23:05.289 --> 00:23:07.470 that their systems are built for us to continue 00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:10.349 to be at the table throughout this entire journey, 00:23:10.470 --> 00:23:13.009 which is why we launched Upstream Sending. Now, 00:23:13.029 --> 00:23:14.829 the beautiful thing is, as this movement grows, 00:23:14.990 --> 00:23:18.259 which is far bigger than than anything we've 00:23:18.259 --> 00:23:21.799 done, we're seeing more organizations who are 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:24.420 passionate about the local church and wanting 00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:29.220 to change things enough to facilitate that place. 00:23:29.619 --> 00:23:32.039 And, you know, one of them is UFM Worldwide that 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.279 we're here doing some events with this week. 00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:37.220 So thankful to be part of that relationship. 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:40.079 Thank you. And you've mentioned, you know, the 00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:42.299 assessment and development part and recognizing. 00:23:42.700 --> 00:23:46.500 I think nowhere, I mean, The church, the local 00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:51.420 church, is probably the best place. I mean, they're 00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:54.220 in the best position to really be able to see, 00:23:54.339 --> 00:23:58.019 is this person kind of called and gifted? And 00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:00.119 what are their experiences? Because they're part 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:02.380 of the local body. And the mission organization 00:24:02.380 --> 00:24:05.940 sets away from that. And they're having to be 00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:08.859 outside looking in. And it's almost like an interview 00:24:08.859 --> 00:24:12.789 or an application. You can learn a lot. And I 00:24:12.789 --> 00:24:15.069 think it's a both and. I think the organization 00:24:15.069 --> 00:24:18.609 can do a lot in the regards of application and 00:24:18.609 --> 00:24:21.490 assessment. But the church is in the best position. 00:24:21.930 --> 00:24:24.630 You know, are they faithful members? Are they 00:24:24.630 --> 00:24:28.769 faithful serving? How are they serving? And so 00:24:28.769 --> 00:24:31.009 the church is really in the best position. So 00:24:31.009 --> 00:24:33.630 we really want to teach the church how to do 00:24:33.630 --> 00:24:36.569 assessing, teach the church of how do we develop 00:24:36.569 --> 00:24:40.170 them in this runway of one year, two years to 00:24:40.170 --> 00:24:43.569 get to the field. And we've seen that as churches 00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:47.130 do that, and they've invested in them for the 00:24:47.130 --> 00:24:49.730 first two years before they go on the field, 00:24:54.509 --> 00:24:56.549 are on the field and care for them when they 00:24:56.549 --> 00:24:59.190 come back home so that's why we really want to 00:24:59.190 --> 00:25:01.750 have the church continue not to have any point 00:25:01.750 --> 00:25:03.509 where the church is outsourcing it or giving 00:25:03.509 --> 00:25:05.750 it away but they're walking with and they're 00:25:05.750 --> 00:25:08.329 inviting the organization to come along and be 00:25:08.329 --> 00:25:12.670 a part of that journey and so the three together 00:25:12.670 --> 00:25:16.349 if you will are walking on this journey and they're 00:25:16.349 --> 00:25:18.930 developing and they're growing and their church 00:25:18.930 --> 00:25:22.420 is shepherding and caring for them the organizations 00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:25.420 probably given some strategic input on the field 00:25:25.420 --> 00:25:30.319 because they may know that. Thank you. So we've 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:32.180 just been hearing from you about the importance 00:25:32.180 --> 00:25:35.980 of the local church in identifying, equipping, 00:25:35.980 --> 00:25:38.579 developing, cultivating, nurturing, training 00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:43.700 potential missionary candidates. As they are 00:25:43.700 --> 00:25:46.640 then sent, and this is the third stage of your 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:50.940 elements, the engaging stage, that exciting but 00:25:50.940 --> 00:25:53.640 demanding stage where the sending becomes not 00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:56.960 just potential or something in the future, but 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.839 becomes something very much real for now. As 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:05.339 a church sends people into the mission field, 00:26:06.190 --> 00:26:08.509 What does it look like for a church to be in 00:26:08.509 --> 00:26:12.750 a long -term relationship with those sent ones? 00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:15.279 And particularly, what does it look like for 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:19.160 the whole church to be involved in that? We're 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:21.920 quite familiar in the UK context with the idea 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.579 that there might be a small group of people, 00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:30.339 some keenies on the fringes of the congregation 00:26:30.339 --> 00:26:33.039 who are involved in this kind of thing, and we 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:35.859 delegate it to them. But what does it look like 00:26:35.859 --> 00:26:39.160 for the whole church to beautifully, profoundly 00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:45.420 own that sense of sending? out to partner obediently 00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:49.119 in that process of sending. Have you got some 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:52.380 examples or teachings on what that might look 00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:54.839 like for the whole church? Yeah, I'm thinking 00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:59.180 it goes back to the convictions. of a church 00:26:59.180 --> 00:27:03.019 in Atlanta area that have really worked hard 00:27:03.019 --> 00:27:05.700 on what the convictions, this is what they really 00:27:05.700 --> 00:27:07.819 believe about missions. And they've really done 00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:11.319 the work on the vision and the strategy. But 00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:13.500 what they've done that I think has been unique 00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:16.920 is that they've found a variety of ways through, 00:27:17.019 --> 00:27:20.839 you know, media, through the worship service, 00:27:20.859 --> 00:27:24.259 through every time they meet for like a short 00:27:24.259 --> 00:27:27.480 -term training. They're even doing short films. 00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:31.799 They're always putting forth those convictions 00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:33.920 and vision and strategy that they're sending 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:38.200 church and raising that idea, that call to action. 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:41.339 Is God calling you? Could God be calling you 00:27:41.339 --> 00:27:45.809 for six months, two years? study, you know, given 00:27:45.809 --> 00:27:48.829 a wide variety, but here's the places that we 00:27:48.829 --> 00:27:50.849 want to be. This is, these are the areas that 00:27:50.849 --> 00:27:52.789 we want to be. It's what we believe that we're 00:27:52.789 --> 00:27:55.309 supposed to be doing. And I think it's just that 00:27:55.309 --> 00:27:59.650 day in, day out of communicating about being 00:27:59.650 --> 00:28:02.450 ascending church and that being who we are as 00:28:02.450 --> 00:28:05.470 a church from the pastor, you know, this, you 00:28:05.470 --> 00:28:08.230 know, the senior leader, you know, other staff 00:28:08.230 --> 00:28:11.809 people, the lay people, the elders, and it starts 00:28:11.809 --> 00:28:15.730 spreading. Another church, and I'll give you 00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:20.250 a chance, really looks at every segment of their 00:28:20.250 --> 00:28:22.650 church. So they look at the preschool. These 00:28:22.650 --> 00:28:24.309 are some things that we want the preschoolers 00:28:24.309 --> 00:28:27.109 to do and learn. Here's some things that we want 00:28:27.109 --> 00:28:29.769 the middle school. By the time they're in middle 00:28:29.769 --> 00:28:31.549 school, we'd love for them to have some project 00:28:31.549 --> 00:28:34.250 that they're doing in the city. And then as a 00:28:34.250 --> 00:28:36.369 high school, we'd like for them to be able to 00:28:36.369 --> 00:28:38.930 go on a weekend trip or a spring break trip. 00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:41.660 And by the time they're in college, so they've 00:28:41.660 --> 00:28:44.920 almost, for every age group, laid out, here's 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:48.259 what we'd like to see happen during that time. 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:52.119 That helps us strategically, but it also builds 00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:57.299 this pipeline all the way through mature adults. 00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:01.839 What comes to mind? With this question, Chris, 00:29:02.019 --> 00:29:04.539 as I'm looking at the elements, is you have this 00:29:04.539 --> 00:29:07.319 involving the entire church element number five 00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:10.160 that kind of dangles down here, which if you 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.559 like symmetry is a little bit perplexing. And 00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:16.539 so I was recently working with a church in Chattanooga, 00:29:16.579 --> 00:29:19.799 Tennessee, and mentioned my symmetry comment 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:22.440 and just said, maybe I'm waiting for a church 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:24.960 to help me figure out how to fill in this blank 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:27.559 space, because this is really from churches. 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:31.910 This is not from us. And the pastor's wife actually 00:29:31.910 --> 00:29:35.109 raised her hand and she said, I have a thought 00:29:35.109 --> 00:29:38.170 here. What if involving the entire church is 00:29:38.170 --> 00:29:40.750 actually meant to dangle because it extends all 00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:43.470 the way across the bottom and applies to every 00:29:43.470 --> 00:29:46.109 single phase and element? And I thought, that's 00:29:46.109 --> 00:29:48.410 it. That's the way we got it. She's got it. She's 00:29:48.410 --> 00:29:51.609 going to write the next chapter in the next edition 00:29:51.609 --> 00:29:55.309 of that book. So the thing is involving the entire 00:29:55.309 --> 00:29:57.809 church is an expression of every single element 00:29:57.809 --> 00:30:00.390 of healthy sending. And in phase three in particular, 00:30:00.390 --> 00:30:02.589 one of the coolest ways that you get to involve 00:30:02.589 --> 00:30:05.650 the entire church that really is quite natural 00:30:05.650 --> 00:30:09.430 and resonates with the congregation beautifully 00:30:09.430 --> 00:30:14.190 is care, providing ongoing care. And that is, 00:30:14.190 --> 00:30:17.069 you know, helping your people to understand missionary 00:30:17.069 --> 00:30:20.460 experience. which is literally and figuratively 00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:23.180 a foreign world to them, but helping them grow 00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:26.140 in their empathy for the very difficult circumstances 00:30:26.140 --> 00:30:29.539 that missionaries go through, not putting those 00:30:29.539 --> 00:30:31.880 missionaries on a pedestal as if they don't struggle, 00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:33.980 not putting those missionaries in a situation 00:30:33.980 --> 00:30:36.299 where they have to project perfection in order 00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:38.480 to maintain their support, but they're able to 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:40.440 be honest with the congregation because their 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:43.539 relationship has been fostered throughout that. 00:30:44.250 --> 00:30:46.049 Identification, assessment, development process. 00:30:46.450 --> 00:30:48.710 And so then you're mobilizing your congregation 00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:55.140 to really care well. Notes, security sensitive 00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:58.380 communication, of course, responding to newsletters, 00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:01.440 going on short term trips that are merely to 00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:04.720 care for the whole family, children included, 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:07.519 not just to put a burden on the missionaries 00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:10.079 to facilitate a week of fun for you and your 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:12.420 church so you can go home and pat yourself on 00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:15.259 the back that you've done a wonderful thing, 00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:17.400 you know, and you've killed your missionaries 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:19.559 in the meantime as they try to recover for weeks 00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:23.079 afterward from exhaustion. But a church. can 00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.420 really contribute to care in beautiful ways when 00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:31.180 they've been invited and taught how to do so. 00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:34.940 One thing Brad has done very well as a pastor... 00:31:35.500 --> 00:31:38.740 is the commissioning service and really, you 00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:41.279 know, being very thoughtful of, you know, the 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.240 liturgy, the worship, maybe even letting the 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.259 people that are being sent out, you know, think 00:31:46.259 --> 00:31:48.980 through, you know, what songs would be great, 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:53.220 the sermon, and pretty much makes it the entire 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:56.640 service, right? You know, not everybody's able 00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:01.680 to do that or willing to do that. The thoughtfulness 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:03.859 of it and the intentionality of it goes a long 00:32:03.859 --> 00:32:07.819 way. And what it does, it really helps the church, 00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:14.000 in a sense, own sending. We are sending them 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:17.140 out. We are commissioning them. It's not an afterthought. 00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:19.960 It's not, you know, a two minutes tack on at 00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.559 the end. It's very much a process. These people 00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.240 are leaving. And sometimes, you know, leaving 00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:30.390 is hard. For the church and the people. So the 00:32:30.390 --> 00:32:32.650 church is involved in that, and it gives everybody 00:32:32.650 --> 00:32:37.549 an opportunity to be involved and realize that 00:32:37.549 --> 00:32:40.890 we are sending at this point. I think that's 00:32:40.890 --> 00:32:43.829 important. It's also a great opportunity for 00:32:43.829 --> 00:32:45.509 people to want to be involved and maybe take 00:32:45.509 --> 00:32:50.490 another step regarding mission. But if you can 00:32:50.490 --> 00:32:53.690 get the worship service, which is pretty much 00:32:53.690 --> 00:32:56.069 everybody in the church is going to come for 00:32:56.069 --> 00:33:00.549 the most part. will be about commissioning goes 00:33:00.549 --> 00:33:03.230 a long way in getting them started well, but 00:33:03.230 --> 00:33:05.869 it also goes a long way of helping them care 00:33:05.869 --> 00:33:08.910 for each other. So commissioning is something 00:33:08.910 --> 00:33:10.730 I really like, and I think it's super important. 00:33:10.890 --> 00:33:14.089 Yeah, and fostering a sending culture, which 00:33:14.089 --> 00:33:16.430 we often talk about, could mean for a pastor 00:33:16.430 --> 00:33:19.390 who's listening to this podcast, how can I actually 00:33:19.390 --> 00:33:23.170 cultivate commissioning in every single worship 00:33:23.170 --> 00:33:28.039 gathering by liturgically... Shaping the benediction 00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:31.839 to be a sending benediction. At the church where 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.339 I was lead pastor, every week the sending conviction 00:33:34.339 --> 00:33:36.980 has changed a little bit. The consistent components 00:33:36.980 --> 00:33:41.039 of we're blessed to be a blessing. So go now 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.500 in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy 00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:46.099 Spirit. We say this together, we are sent. It's 00:33:46.099 --> 00:33:50.400 just that reminder. Now we're all sent and commissioned 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:56.589 to go. So the slightly... cliche or cheesy idea 00:33:56.589 --> 00:33:59.730 of putting above the doorway of the church. You 00:33:59.730 --> 00:34:02.309 are now entering the mission field as people 00:34:02.309 --> 00:34:05.410 leave church. It's a little bit cliche, but actually 00:34:05.410 --> 00:34:08.570 there's an element of truth in that. That's part 00:34:08.570 --> 00:34:12.769 of that sending out that benediction. You come 00:34:12.769 --> 00:34:15.389 to church, you're a disciple, but it's blessed 00:34:15.389 --> 00:34:18.030 to be a blessing. There's a missional purpose 00:34:18.030 --> 00:34:21.809 to what goes on on the Sunday morning. begins 00:34:21.809 --> 00:34:26.130 as you leave the building, so to speak. Thank 00:34:26.130 --> 00:34:28.710 you so much. What I was hearing loud and clear 00:34:28.710 --> 00:34:32.489 in those answers was the idea of intentionality, 00:34:32.510 --> 00:34:36.250 thoughtfulness and ownership as a whole church 00:34:36.250 --> 00:34:39.570 when it comes to the commissioning, the sending, 00:34:39.889 --> 00:34:42.849 the sustaining and the supporting of mission 00:34:42.849 --> 00:34:45.530 partners. And I think that's a very helpful reminder 00:34:45.530 --> 00:34:48.349 to all of us who are part of local churches. 00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:53.340 The fourth and final category of elements that 00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:58.199 you've identified is multiplying. And as I understand 00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:01.920 it, this is the idea that when a mission partner 00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:06.840 returns from a short or medium or long -term 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.219 period of service, perhaps cross -culturally 00:35:09.219 --> 00:35:12.460 or overseas, very often in the local church life, 00:35:12.619 --> 00:35:15.420 that is considered the end of a cycle. They're 00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:18.349 back, we're done. That's finished. Let's move 00:35:18.349 --> 00:35:22.010 on. But actually, what I hear you saying through 00:35:22.010 --> 00:35:25.349 this set of elements is actually that when a 00:35:25.349 --> 00:35:28.710 mission partner or family returns, they can then 00:35:28.710 --> 00:35:33.489 feed into the sending process so that it becomes 00:35:33.489 --> 00:35:37.150 something that's multiplying or replicating in 00:35:37.150 --> 00:35:40.769 some way. What might it look like for a church 00:35:40.769 --> 00:35:45.150 to invite returning mission partners to feed 00:35:45.150 --> 00:35:47.949 into that process? so that it becomes something 00:35:47.949 --> 00:35:54.349 multiplicative rather than just static and finished, 00:35:54.670 --> 00:35:57.969 bounded in that way. I would definitely say first 00:35:57.969 --> 00:36:01.409 on the front end of that is that often when people 00:36:01.409 --> 00:36:04.150 come home, they could be retired or they could 00:36:04.150 --> 00:36:06.909 be burned out or they could have had moral failure. 00:36:07.030 --> 00:36:09.900 They could have, you know, so there's a... wide 00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:12.679 gamut of people coming back, right? And because 00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:14.880 they're covenant members of your church, how 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:18.880 do we shepherd them? So I do think that the first 00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:21.800 part of this is sometimes it's rest. Sometimes 00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:24.260 there's recalibration. Sometimes there's restoration. 00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:27.519 And all of those things are super important. 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:33.530 And I've seen many come out of that. and they're 00:36:33.530 --> 00:36:36.429 recalibrated, and they really become more and 00:36:36.429 --> 00:36:38.690 more involved, and they're ready. But sometimes 00:36:38.690 --> 00:36:41.630 that takes some time. They may not come back 00:36:41.630 --> 00:36:44.690 ready to lead the next mission trip. And I think 00:36:44.690 --> 00:36:47.130 sometimes we think that as church leaders. Hey, 00:36:47.230 --> 00:36:49.869 they just came back off the field. They're ready 00:36:49.869 --> 00:36:53.150 to go. They may not be. And that's why we kind 00:36:53.150 --> 00:36:57.679 of add this caveat of recalibration. Often afterwards, 00:36:58.099 --> 00:37:00.900 they become some of the best people in missionary 00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:05.039 care or how to raise children overseas or missions 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:08.960 education in the church or who, you know, awesome 00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.679 opportunities to be missionary coaches as you're 00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.659 sending people out, helping them get ready. So 00:37:14.659 --> 00:37:17.000 those are some things that come to my mind. The 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:19.820 analogy that comes to mind here is make your 00:37:19.820 --> 00:37:22.739 church a harbor. for returning missionaries. 00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:26.139 If it's been the place where you have laid the 00:37:26.139 --> 00:37:29.159 bedrock of deep relationship, where vulnerability 00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:35.739 is permissible, then when they come back, we 00:37:35.739 --> 00:37:38.599 can be like the safe harbor that receives them 00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:43.500 from the stormy seas and helps them recoup. resupply, 00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:46.900 recommission, as Larry referred to, or just stay 00:37:46.900 --> 00:37:50.119 and be broken and healed for as long as that 00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:53.980 may take, which we find is sometimes quite long. 00:37:54.179 --> 00:37:57.559 So in the sending church defined, we refer to 00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:01.599 as this phase of the elements of the sending 00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:05.059 process or pipeline, you might say, as the ugly 00:38:05.059 --> 00:38:09.260 duckling of the sending process, because it's 00:38:09.260 --> 00:38:13.300 just the most easy to neglect. And I mean, there's 00:38:13.300 --> 00:38:16.699 a reason why countries tend to not engage well 00:38:16.699 --> 00:38:20.619 with the care of their veterans, because it's 00:38:20.619 --> 00:38:23.860 really hard to weather PTSD outbursts and to, 00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:29.639 you know, nurse massive injuries. And so we just 00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:32.760 we stay away from what we don't know what to 00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:37.409 process with it. And our encouragement to churches 00:38:37.409 --> 00:38:39.710 is to say, no, let's press into it. You may not 00:38:39.710 --> 00:38:41.789 have all the professional skills that you need 00:38:41.789 --> 00:38:44.329 in order to care holistically for people, but... 00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:46.679 But what can you provide? You can provide some 00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:49.079 measure of debriefing. You can provide the relational 00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:51.519 context that allows them to feel safe. You can 00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:54.380 see their children and care for their children 00:38:54.380 --> 00:38:57.059 in ways that keep you from asking silly questions 00:38:57.059 --> 00:38:59.800 like, how was your trip? You can help prepare 00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:04.539 your people to understand how to care well. You 00:39:04.539 --> 00:39:07.039 can help them financially if they're coming back 00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:10.289 and really. you know, the transition and the 00:39:10.289 --> 00:39:14.429 difficulty related to finances. There's so many 00:39:14.429 --> 00:39:16.869 things that churches can do that really is beautiful 00:39:16.869 --> 00:39:21.110 and is an aspect of caring well. I mean, imagine 00:39:21.110 --> 00:39:24.750 the reception that Jesus received when he returned 00:39:24.750 --> 00:39:28.849 from his mission to heaven, you know, let that 00:39:28.849 --> 00:39:33.269 stir us for how we welcome back those whom we've 00:39:33.269 --> 00:39:36.449 sent out and have gone for the sake of the name. 00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.719 That's a beautiful image and a beautiful thought. 00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:42.960 Thank you so much. There's so much more we could 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.460 talk about. You've wonderfully in this book, 00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:49.860 Sending Church Applied, put together these 17 00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:52.420 different elements into those four categories 00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:56.760 of establishing, developing, engaging and multiplying. 00:39:57.139 --> 00:39:59.380 And over this past few minutes, we've been able 00:39:59.380 --> 00:40:02.360 to dip into some of those. But I know there's 00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:07.079 so much more to think about as we... We explore 00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.940 what it looks and feels like theologically and 00:40:10.940 --> 00:40:15.400 practically to be sent churches and sending churches 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:21.139 of our God who sends. We need to wrap up. If 00:40:21.139 --> 00:40:25.059 a listener were part of a church, perhaps even 00:40:25.059 --> 00:40:29.639 in leadership in a local church, what sort of 00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:32.500 conversations might you encourage them to have 00:40:32.500 --> 00:40:36.550 if they've listened to this podcast? are exploring 00:40:36.550 --> 00:40:38.909 or engaging with some of these ideas for the 00:40:38.909 --> 00:40:41.590 first time, if they've traditionally encountered 00:40:41.590 --> 00:40:45.309 mission sending in quite a reactive rather than 00:40:45.309 --> 00:40:48.929 proactive way, what might some of the questions 00:40:48.929 --> 00:40:51.469 or conversations be that you would encourage 00:40:51.469 --> 00:40:56.369 them to have? To not go alone, that they need 00:40:56.369 --> 00:40:58.429 to find some other people in the church that 00:40:58.429 --> 00:41:00.969 they can really talk with, because I've found 00:41:00.969 --> 00:41:03.909 that if it's one person that we're working with, 00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:08.480 It just doesn't necessarily drip throughout the 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:11.420 entire congregation. So find out if there's some 00:41:11.420 --> 00:41:13.659 other people that kind of have the same feeling. 00:41:13.820 --> 00:41:17.260 Introduce them to that. Be able to get with the 00:41:17.260 --> 00:41:19.840 elder board or deacon board, however the church 00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:22.420 is structured, the pastors, and try to start 00:41:22.420 --> 00:41:25.239 having some of these conversations. Most of the 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:29.980 resources that we try to produce are... relatively 00:41:29.980 --> 00:41:34.539 short, especially from the worksheets and such. 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.260 It enables you to be able to share them with 00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:39.460 a lot of different people in your church, which 00:41:39.460 --> 00:41:42.539 is totally cool. And just to get more people 00:41:42.539 --> 00:41:45.059 involved in it, don't go at it alone. That'd 00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:46.960 be one thing that comes to my mind. Yeah, what 00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:48.699 came to mind for me, and this is really from 00:41:48.699 --> 00:41:51.659 work that I've been doing with churches outside 00:41:51.659 --> 00:41:55.940 the U .S. context. who don't have often all the 00:41:55.940 --> 00:41:59.239 bells and whistles and resources that the midsize 00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:02.320 to megachurch in the West does. I'm thinking 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:04.699 especially of my friends who are missions pastors 00:42:04.699 --> 00:42:07.500 in Cameroon that I've learned so much from and 00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:10.539 who are often going at this with such passion, 00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:16.039 but so biblically. For example, why not just 00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:19.159 open the scriptures with... the other person 00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:22.000 or people that Larry referred to that has some 00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:24.699 interest in this and say, let's just read through 00:42:24.699 --> 00:42:27.199 the scriptures thoughtfully, looking for the 00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:33.400 theme of sending, receiving, sent ones. And let's 00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:36.099 follow that thread from Genesis to Revelation. 00:42:36.699 --> 00:42:38.800 Let's spend some intentional time, especially 00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:42.420 in Acts 11 through 18. And as we observe and 00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:44.539 we ask the Holy Spirit to stir our hearts and 00:42:44.539 --> 00:42:47.960 give us clarity. I think the scriptures will 00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:52.679 speak profoundly to that group of people within 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:57.539 that church as to what God has in store for them. 00:42:57.719 --> 00:42:59.599 And of course, we want to point to our resources 00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:02.079 and our books and all those things. But again, 00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:04.260 just thinking about my brothers in Cameroon who 00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:05.820 are starting with the scriptures and they're 00:43:05.820 --> 00:43:08.079 starting with fasting and praying, I don't want 00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:10.699 to say, go to Upstream first. We'll be there. 00:43:12.059 --> 00:43:15.539 Go to the Word of God and go to the Holy Spirit 00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:17.980 and see how many missions, movements around the 00:43:17.980 --> 00:43:20.079 world have happened from just a handful of people 00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:23.179 praying together over God's heart for the nations. 00:43:23.539 --> 00:43:26.699 So who knows what God might do? That's a wonderful 00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:30.019 encouragement. Thank you so much. Brothers, there's 00:43:30.019 --> 00:43:32.159 so much more we could talk about. We're very 00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:36.380 grateful for your time. So Larry and Brad, we 00:43:36.380 --> 00:43:39.199 really appreciate all you're doing. through the 00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:41.500 Upstream Collective in the States, all that you're 00:43:41.500 --> 00:43:44.239 doing for us here at college these next couple 00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:46.880 of days. Thank you for joining us on Oak Hill 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:50.480 College's Deep Roots podcast. And listeners, 00:43:50.539 --> 00:43:53.099 we look forward to being with you again in our 00:43:53.099 --> 00:43:54.079 next episode shortly.