Well, a very warm welcome to a new edition of
Oak Hill College's Deep Roots podcast. My name's
Chris Howells. I serve as director of cross -cultural
training here at the college. I'm well aware
that my voice is a little bit croaky today, or
a lot croaky. Listeners, viewers, please don't
worry. I feel a lot better than I probably sound.
Thank you in advance for your patience. The good
news is that we're not here to listen to me,
but much more our two special guests. who are
joining us today. We're very pleased to welcome
both Bradley Bell and Larry McCrary from the
US and from an organisation called the Upstream
Collective. We're pleased to be with you this
afternoon and really want to hear more about
what Upstream is and what it does. So, Larry,
if we could start with you, tell us a little
bit about your role within the Upstream Collective
and what Upstream Collective aims to do. to do
as an organization? Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so
16 years ago, we were missionaries here in Europe
and doing church planting, disciple making, and
we recognized just a couple of things that kind
of bugged us when it came to missions. One is
that we were trying to engage people that were
professional business people, and we recognized
that quite a few people that really did a great
job of connecting. engaging people with the gospel.
They had access to these people. They had sustainability
because they worked for a living. They had a
marketplace job, but yet they were from England
or Norway or Sweden, the U .S., Canada, Mexico,
and they were sent to that part of the world
by their companies. But they loved Jesus and
wanted to live intentionally. And we just thought
that was such a beautiful thing. And in our missionary
efforts, we thought, Wow, they really are better
than we are. And so we started diving in. Why
is that? What are the things that we can learn
from that? Not just leveraging them and working
with them as a teammate, but we learned that
their churches that they came from had really
discipled them at a deep level to live sent.
And we've recognized a lot at times in our own
churches, that's not the case. We've kind of
separated vocational missionary to marketplace
missionary and lay people and clergy opposed
to really seeing everyone, every Christ follower,
spirit living in them is a sent one. Some are
called across cultural ministry, vocationally,
totally fine. Some are called into business and
they... do their business to the best and the
glory of God, but they're also able to be salt,
light, and ambassadors. That meant a lot to us
in those early days of Upstream. How do we help
the church really help their people think and
act like a missionary? And then as we started...
developing Upstream, we recognized that there's
another thing that sort of bothered us, that
we met a lot of people that were sent out by
their church and forgotten, abandoned. They were
sent out as missionaries, but the church forgot
about them. And when we put these things together,
we recognized that one of the things, one of
the problems that we see was that the church
was outsourcing the Great Commission. Whether
because it was more efficient or more pragmatic,
it was a lot easier to let the professionals
do it, to let the organizations do it. Nothing
wrong with organizations. We are one. But it's
our role as an organization is to help the church
send well. And that's what we've developed into
as we've kind of grown up as an organization
in the teenage years. We really want to help
the church do sending well. The Great Commission
was given to the church. How do we help them
do it? Not the church help us do the Great Commission
because we're the organization. And so I think
through that in our writing of books and as we're
equipping the church, as we're sending the church,
we really exist to help the church send well.
And yeah, the church sends and we help. Thank
you. The church sends, we help. Brad, if we could
come to you, you work with Lariat, the Upstream
Collective. I know you're particularly involved
in resourcing and equipping, teaching. The church
sends, we help. Very often, certainly in the
UK context, it can be that... We think that mission
agencies send missionaries and the church is
there to help them. A bit of money, a bit of
prayer here and there where possible, where capacity
allows. But actually this tagline you have, the
church sends, we help, flips that common pattern
that we see. Could you speak a little bit more
into that? What might that look like? And why
have you chosen to flip what seems to have been
so common over the past few decades or even centuries?
Sure. That's a great question, Chris. Thank you.
So when we look at the scriptures, we see our
resurrected Lord ascend to heaven. He's seated
at the right hand of the Father, and he sends
forth the Holy Spirit upon his church. And when
he does that, he is unleashing a mighty river
of mission that's meant to flow through his church.
And in the early church, you see that happening.
For example, in the church at Antioch in Acts
11 through 18, there are different instances
where this church has the mission of God flowing
very clearly into their very cross -cultural
context, but then outward and even further beyond
them into the Gentile world. You see it continue
to develop in other instances after the book
of Acts that we know from church history. But
marking the point really where the... the church
became associated with the state, you know, a
post -Constantine sort of shift. At that point,
scholars note that what was a church -centric
phenomenon becomes almost a church -adjacent
phenomenon. And there are lots of other factors
that contribute to this throughout the years
that we could point to, maybe in a more modern
end of things, the professionalization. of missions
where you have almost a system of hierarchy.
There are those who are qualified to do God's
work and mission and those who are maybe not
qualified to do it. Because of that as well,
you see the church being on the shore of this
mighty river that was meant to be flowing through
it. Our name is described upstream. We're pushing
against that mainstream current. Now, mainstream
missions has been effective in many ways, and
God's used our efforts wonderfully. But as we
look at Scripture, we just feel the conviction
that we want to help churches get back toward
that biblical vision, finding their particular
role and identity in His global mission. not
to the exclusion of organizations, but as a major
part, a reawakening to their birthright in the
Great Commission. And that's pushing upstream
against the current. If you go against the current
in the Thames, it's going to be hard going. So
it's not a popular movement, but it is a growing
movement around the world of churches who want
to send well. So that's where we start with the
church, and we're going to help them. rather
than take it away from them. Thank you so very
much. And so you're here at Sokil College the
next couple of days. You're helping to engage
with students and staff in a number of different
forums to encourage all of us to think through
what it looks like for the local church to be
deeply involved in a primary way in the ascending
globally of mission partners. Let me dig into
that a little bit. Last year, we at the college
gave a gift to each of our students. And it was
a book that you both wrote with two colleagues
called Descending Church Applied. Now, on the
back of this book, there is a periodic table.
It looks like what I learned at chemistry class
back at school. Unhappy memories for me, I must
say. Exactly. elements but this isn't gold or
silver or iron or um or whatever this is 17 different
elements of how a local church can be involved
in sending globally. Could you just speak to
a little bit, before we get into some of the
detail of that, why did you decide to put together
this table of elements summarizing how a local
church can think and send globally? I think it
started with, you know, we started working with
more and more churches and mission leaders in
the churches. And we got together, you know,
many years ago, and just really put together
a very long sentence. And I think it's grammatically
correct. It's Pauline. It was Pauline, exactly.
And it's called, How Do You Define a Sending
Church? And so we defined the sending church,
and we asked this man right here to write a book
on sending church to find. And he took every
single word and made it a chapter. And that became
really our manifesto. It's what we really believe
about the sending church. And as we started rolling
that out and teaching it to more and more churches,
we just recognized as we were working with churches,
as we were part of churches, we just recognized
there's probably 17 elements that just really
kept sticking out. Hey, these are important.
And then we categorized them. And then literally.
I don't think any of us came up with the idea
of the design. We gave it our graphic artist,
and she came up with the idea of a periodic table,
which I did not do very well in chemistry as
well. But yeah, so it kind of came out that way,
evolving from our definition of sending church.
Thank you. So these 17 elements on this periodic
table of global missions for the local church
are categorized into four different groups. And
the first group, the first five elements you've
summarized as the establishing phase. So I've
noticed in many churches in the UK. The way we
think about global missions is often that we
will go about our day -to -day business. Church
life is very full on all the time. And if someone
comes to us from within the local church and
says, I feel the Lord is prompting me, calling
me into cross -cultural global service in some
way, shape or form. That will be a good thing.
That will largely be appreciated and celebrated.
And we will kind of take it from there. But it's
quite a reactive posture. I think this first
phase, what you're trying to encourage is a proactive
posture, one that says the first role of a church
is to establish and cultivate missional convictions
about global mission sending in the day -to -day
rhythms of the church. Could you speak a little
bit about that? What might it look like for a
church to develop those convictions? Yeah, so
I think convictions really begins with a foundation
of theology rooted in who God is as a sending
God. We see rooted in his character that between
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, there is union
and communion from eternity past. And there is
the giving and receiving. There is the expression,
the receptivity of love, affection, all the beautiful
things that make up our God. And then out of
the overflow of that, there is mission. And it
makes sense because it's who God is as an outward
-oriented sending God, we might say. Language
fails us. But I'm stepping away from the use
of missions in general because that's actually
not language we see in Scripture. That's language
that we're using to describe what we see in Scripture.
But when it comes to receiving, sending, sent
ones, you see it from Genesis to Revelation.
And so our sending God... is where we need to
start in churches to lay a foundation for cultivating
missions awareness and convictions because you
help people to realize if God is ascending God
by his very nature, then the moment I enter into
Christ, the moment I am baptized in the name
of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
and I'm starting to be caught up in this beautiful
communion that we see in the Godhead, I am sent
as well. I become a sender and a sent one as
a little Christ. And so if you start with identity
that is built from theology, you're awakening
every single person in your congregation to who
they already are, rather than trying to convince
them to add on missions as something else that
they should care about in addition to everything
else that's going on in their plate. And that
can then become the lens through which the entire
church is shaped. No longer is missions a ministry
that's a slice of the pie. It's the very reason
why our church even exists. You know, in a context
like the US or the UK, like we're Gentiles, not
in Jerusalem, to whom the gospel has come. Therefore,
our very existence is a testimony, a living witness
that there is a global missional phenomenon happening.
And if that is already true of us, then how much
more are we encouraged to then live into who
we already are? No guilt, no shame. Don't you
care about unreached people groups? Don't you
give enough money? No, it's who you are. And
so missions convictions then becomes a compass
to guide the church in determining how do we
steward our limited resources well. Resources
being time, people, energy, money. The church
doesn't have unlimited assets to work with. So
how can we steward it most effectively to have
the deepest impact, maybe in a fewer number of
places, but that impact will not only lead to
the multiplication of disciples in churches,
hopefully, but it also will have a reciprocal
impact back on our congregation as we go into
deep relationships with the people. we encounter
cross -culturally there and pour our lives into.
So missions convictions are not the same for
every single congregation. There's something
that we come alongside churches to help them
foster and develop and wrestle with to see what
is it that God is calling us uniquely to contribute
to his global mission. Brad, thank you. Just
to follow up on that briefly. So you're saying
that what mission sending looks like for an individual
local church will not be the same, that there
are cultural, historical, contextual factors
that will determine what being sent looks like.
And that will be different for each church. Absolutely.
It would be so much easier for us if we could
just say, hey, these are your missions convictions
based on good theology. This is what your church
should strategically do in missions. But that's
not relying on the work of the Holy Spirit wed
to God's word to bring about an expression of
the kingdom in and through that local body that
is unique and ordained by Christ. And I think
often churches will start, we have convictions,
vision, strategy. And I think often churches
will, because mission is activity, we're doing
short -term trips. We're going to go help people
from international places that live in our city.
We're going to send out a missionary or support
a mission organization. It's about activity.
We really believe that convictions. really is
the starting point. But most churches start with
strategy and maybe vision. And as we have worked
with them and learned from them and learned that
it's often they're going back and said, OK, maybe
we should start our convictions because that's
going to be your big yes inside. This is why
we do what we do when it comes to mission. And
every church is different. And I think churches
have their sweet spot. They may have a passion
for a part of the world that. God has given them.
They may have experience from people that are
in the church from that part of the world or
traveling. They may be in certain sectors like
medical or finance or agriculture or students.
Working with a church now, it's beautiful. It's
a young church and mostly university students.
And they're just seeing that they have this vision
for reaching campuses all around the world. But
it came out of... This idea of a conviction of
if we can reach the university campuses, then
it can make a difference in that city and in
that country and as the students go out. So the
convictions really drive that. That's your why.
Vision is what do you want to do, and then strategy
is how. And so we bookend that with how do you
help the church create this awareness? And I
believe one reason why we have a lot of reactivity
when it comes to mission is that we've cast this
big net, you know, God loves the world, and so
should we, and we mobilize like that. And convictions
and vision and strategy, when they're lined up,
they're actually going to be mobilizing more
specifically. maybe a place or people or, you
know, region of the world and there and you've
got the church, it's all going in the same direction.
And you start thinking proactively, are there
people that we can send to the nations? Are there
marketplace people? Can we send our students?
And for so long in the modern mission movement,
you know, it's been the long term vocational
missionary. Totally fine. We need that. God's
still working in that way. And then recently,
it's more short -term missions. But we're forgetting
that there's this wide gamut. You can work in
a lot of countries in the world now remotely.
You can, retirees can go. and use their pension
and their savings and live in a place for a year
or six months, whatever it be, and connect missionally.
Students can do their entire degree in a different...
What if all of those lined up and the church
was really focusing proactively of how do we
engage that people wherever they live, in our
city and around the world? And I think the more
specific we'll be, I think the more we'll be
able to be proactive. Thank you. I love that
thought of shifting from a reactivity to proactivity
by establishing our mission convictions that
are individual and God gifted to each of us as
distinct contextual local churches with the histories,
traditions, trajectories that we've got. So thank
you for that. On your periodic table of elements,
sending church elements, the second category.
after establishing mission convictions and developing
that vision. The second category is developing
cross -cultural workers. That could be everything
from identifying potential missionaries, assessing
their suitability and equipping, training and
developing them. Is that not something that a
mission agency would do? Or you're saying that
actually the primary work in identifying and
equipping potential cross -cultural workers is
through the local church? In outsourcing missions
over history of missions, we might say malpractice.
What has happened a lot of times in churches
handing off their own members that they have
responsibility to shepherd and care for and handing
off those members to a missions organization.
Again, we're not opposed to missions organizations
nor critical of them, but in this phenomenon,
it's become a transactional relationship that
the church has with their own sent one. In that,
okay, we're transitioning you over to the agency.
Well, the agency then employs them and takes
them, walks with them to the field, whatever
experience they have. When that comes to an end,
the employment is over. The missions agency doesn't
come home with the worker, doesn't care for them
as they recover from what they've experienced
and adjust back into the next season of life.
It's transactional back into the church. And
what we're advocating for, again, as an argument
from Scripture, is rather than transactional,
covenantal. Like a member... is still under the
shepherding care of the church, and the church
maintains some measure of that responsibility.
in partnership with the missions organization,
because the reality is the church is not going
to go to the field and be there on the ground
day to day. They're not going to be giving oversight
and subverting their decision making on the field
or any of that sort of thing. There's got to
be partnership there. But they still have a significant
place at the table in the life of the missionary.
And that's understood between the church, the
missionary. and the missions organization as
an interdependent relationship. The difficulty
that we found over the years that churches have
spoken to us as they buy into sending theology
and an idea is, you know, we are struggling to
find missions organizations that value the local
church in such a way that they will allow us,
that their systems are built for us to continue
to be at the table throughout this entire journey,
which is why we launched Upstream Sending. Now,
the beautiful thing is, as this movement grows,
which is far bigger than than anything we've
done, we're seeing more organizations who are
passionate about the local church and wanting
to change things enough to facilitate that place.
And, you know, one of them is UFM Worldwide that
we're here doing some events with this week.
So thankful to be part of that relationship.
Thank you. And you've mentioned, you know, the
assessment and development part and recognizing.
I think nowhere, I mean, The church, the local
church, is probably the best place. I mean, they're
in the best position to really be able to see,
is this person kind of called and gifted? And
what are their experiences? Because they're part
of the local body. And the mission organization
sets away from that. And they're having to be
outside looking in. And it's almost like an interview
or an application. You can learn a lot. And I
think it's a both and. I think the organization
can do a lot in the regards of application and
assessment. But the church is in the best position.
You know, are they faithful members? Are they
faithful serving? How are they serving? And so
the church is really in the best position. So
we really want to teach the church how to do
assessing, teach the church of how do we develop
them in this runway of one year, two years to
get to the field. And we've seen that as churches
do that, and they've invested in them for the
first two years before they go on the field,
are on the field and care for them when they
come back home so that's why we really want to
have the church continue not to have any point
where the church is outsourcing it or giving
it away but they're walking with and they're
inviting the organization to come along and be
a part of that journey and so the three together
if you will are walking on this journey and they're
developing and they're growing and their church
is shepherding and caring for them the organizations
probably given some strategic input on the field
because they may know that. Thank you. So we've
just been hearing from you about the importance
of the local church in identifying, equipping,
developing, cultivating, nurturing, training
potential missionary candidates. As they are
then sent, and this is the third stage of your
elements, the engaging stage, that exciting but
demanding stage where the sending becomes not
just potential or something in the future, but
becomes something very much real for now. As
a church sends people into the mission field,
What does it look like for a church to be in
a long -term relationship with those sent ones?
And particularly, what does it look like for
the whole church to be involved in that? We're
quite familiar in the UK context with the idea
that there might be a small group of people,
some keenies on the fringes of the congregation
who are involved in this kind of thing, and we
delegate it to them. But what does it look like
for the whole church to beautifully, profoundly
own that sense of sending? out to partner obediently
in that process of sending. Have you got some
examples or teachings on what that might look
like for the whole church? Yeah, I'm thinking
it goes back to the convictions. of a church
in Atlanta area that have really worked hard
on what the convictions, this is what they really
believe about missions. And they've really done
the work on the vision and the strategy. But
what they've done that I think has been unique
is that they've found a variety of ways through,
you know, media, through the worship service,
through every time they meet for like a short
-term training. They're even doing short films.
They're always putting forth those convictions
and vision and strategy that they're sending
church and raising that idea, that call to action.
Is God calling you? Could God be calling you
for six months, two years? study, you know, given
a wide variety, but here's the places that we
want to be. This is, these are the areas that
we want to be. It's what we believe that we're
supposed to be doing. And I think it's just that
day in, day out of communicating about being
ascending church and that being who we are as
a church from the pastor, you know, this, you
know, the senior leader, you know, other staff
people, the lay people, the elders, and it starts
spreading. Another church, and I'll give you
a chance, really looks at every segment of their
church. So they look at the preschool. These
are some things that we want the preschoolers
to do and learn. Here's some things that we want
the middle school. By the time they're in middle
school, we'd love for them to have some project
that they're doing in the city. And then as a
high school, we'd like for them to be able to
go on a weekend trip or a spring break trip.
And by the time they're in college, so they've
almost, for every age group, laid out, here's
what we'd like to see happen during that time.
That helps us strategically, but it also builds
this pipeline all the way through mature adults.
What comes to mind? With this question, Chris,
as I'm looking at the elements, is you have this
involving the entire church element number five
that kind of dangles down here, which if you
like symmetry is a little bit perplexing. And
so I was recently working with a church in Chattanooga,
Tennessee, and mentioned my symmetry comment
and just said, maybe I'm waiting for a church
to help me figure out how to fill in this blank
space, because this is really from churches.
This is not from us. And the pastor's wife actually
raised her hand and she said, I have a thought
here. What if involving the entire church is
actually meant to dangle because it extends all
the way across the bottom and applies to every
single phase and element? And I thought, that's
it. That's the way we got it. She's got it. She's
going to write the next chapter in the next edition
of that book. So the thing is involving the entire
church is an expression of every single element
of healthy sending. And in phase three in particular,
one of the coolest ways that you get to involve
the entire church that really is quite natural
and resonates with the congregation beautifully
is care, providing ongoing care. And that is,
you know, helping your people to understand missionary
experience. which is literally and figuratively
a foreign world to them, but helping them grow
in their empathy for the very difficult circumstances
that missionaries go through, not putting those
missionaries on a pedestal as if they don't struggle,
not putting those missionaries in a situation
where they have to project perfection in order
to maintain their support, but they're able to
be honest with the congregation because their
relationship has been fostered throughout that.
Identification, assessment, development process.
And so then you're mobilizing your congregation
to really care well. Notes, security sensitive
communication, of course, responding to newsletters,
going on short term trips that are merely to
care for the whole family, children included,
not just to put a burden on the missionaries
to facilitate a week of fun for you and your
church so you can go home and pat yourself on
the back that you've done a wonderful thing,
you know, and you've killed your missionaries
in the meantime as they try to recover for weeks
afterward from exhaustion. But a church. can
really contribute to care in beautiful ways when
they've been invited and taught how to do so.
One thing Brad has done very well as a pastor...
is the commissioning service and really, you
know, being very thoughtful of, you know, the
liturgy, the worship, maybe even letting the
people that are being sent out, you know, think
through, you know, what songs would be great,
the sermon, and pretty much makes it the entire
service, right? You know, not everybody's able
to do that or willing to do that. The thoughtfulness
of it and the intentionality of it goes a long
way. And what it does, it really helps the church,
in a sense, own sending. We are sending them
out. We are commissioning them. It's not an afterthought.
It's not, you know, a two minutes tack on at
the end. It's very much a process. These people
are leaving. And sometimes, you know, leaving
is hard. For the church and the people. So the
church is involved in that, and it gives everybody
an opportunity to be involved and realize that
we are sending at this point. I think that's
important. It's also a great opportunity for
people to want to be involved and maybe take
another step regarding mission. But if you can
get the worship service, which is pretty much
everybody in the church is going to come for
the most part. will be about commissioning goes
a long way in getting them started well, but
it also goes a long way of helping them care
for each other. So commissioning is something
I really like, and I think it's super important.
Yeah, and fostering a sending culture, which
we often talk about, could mean for a pastor
who's listening to this podcast, how can I actually
cultivate commissioning in every single worship
gathering by liturgically... Shaping the benediction
to be a sending benediction. At the church where
I was lead pastor, every week the sending conviction
has changed a little bit. The consistent components
of we're blessed to be a blessing. So go now
in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy
Spirit. We say this together, we are sent. It's
just that reminder. Now we're all sent and commissioned
to go. So the slightly... cliche or cheesy idea
of putting above the doorway of the church. You
are now entering the mission field as people
leave church. It's a little bit cliche, but actually
there's an element of truth in that. That's part
of that sending out that benediction. You come
to church, you're a disciple, but it's blessed
to be a blessing. There's a missional purpose
to what goes on on the Sunday morning. begins
as you leave the building, so to speak. Thank
you so much. What I was hearing loud and clear
in those answers was the idea of intentionality,
thoughtfulness and ownership as a whole church
when it comes to the commissioning, the sending,
the sustaining and the supporting of mission
partners. And I think that's a very helpful reminder
to all of us who are part of local churches.
The fourth and final category of elements that
you've identified is multiplying. And as I understand
it, this is the idea that when a mission partner
returns from a short or medium or long -term
period of service, perhaps cross -culturally
or overseas, very often in the local church life,
that is considered the end of a cycle. They're
back, we're done. That's finished. Let's move
on. But actually, what I hear you saying through
this set of elements is actually that when a
mission partner or family returns, they can then
feed into the sending process so that it becomes
something that's multiplying or replicating in
some way. What might it look like for a church
to invite returning mission partners to feed
into that process? so that it becomes something
multiplicative rather than just static and finished,
bounded in that way. I would definitely say first
on the front end of that is that often when people
come home, they could be retired or they could
be burned out or they could have had moral failure.
They could have, you know, so there's a... wide
gamut of people coming back, right? And because
they're covenant members of your church, how
do we shepherd them? So I do think that the first
part of this is sometimes it's rest. Sometimes
there's recalibration. Sometimes there's restoration.
And all of those things are super important.
And I've seen many come out of that. and they're
recalibrated, and they really become more and
more involved, and they're ready. But sometimes
that takes some time. They may not come back
ready to lead the next mission trip. And I think
sometimes we think that as church leaders. Hey,
they just came back off the field. They're ready
to go. They may not be. And that's why we kind
of add this caveat of recalibration. Often afterwards,
they become some of the best people in missionary
care or how to raise children overseas or missions
education in the church or who, you know, awesome
opportunities to be missionary coaches as you're
sending people out, helping them get ready. So
those are some things that come to my mind. The
analogy that comes to mind here is make your
church a harbor. for returning missionaries.
If it's been the place where you have laid the
bedrock of deep relationship, where vulnerability
is permissible, then when they come back, we
can be like the safe harbor that receives them
from the stormy seas and helps them recoup. resupply,
recommission, as Larry referred to, or just stay
and be broken and healed for as long as that
may take, which we find is sometimes quite long.
So in the sending church defined, we refer to
as this phase of the elements of the sending
process or pipeline, you might say, as the ugly
duckling of the sending process, because it's
just the most easy to neglect. And I mean, there's
a reason why countries tend to not engage well
with the care of their veterans, because it's
really hard to weather PTSD outbursts and to,
you know, nurse massive injuries. And so we just
we stay away from what we don't know what to
process with it. And our encouragement to churches
is to say, no, let's press into it. You may not
have all the professional skills that you need
in order to care holistically for people, but...
But what can you provide? You can provide some
measure of debriefing. You can provide the relational
context that allows them to feel safe. You can
see their children and care for their children
in ways that keep you from asking silly questions
like, how was your trip? You can help prepare
your people to understand how to care well. You
can help them financially if they're coming back
and really. you know, the transition and the
difficulty related to finances. There's so many
things that churches can do that really is beautiful
and is an aspect of caring well. I mean, imagine
the reception that Jesus received when he returned
from his mission to heaven, you know, let that
stir us for how we welcome back those whom we've
sent out and have gone for the sake of the name.
That's a beautiful image and a beautiful thought.
Thank you so much. There's so much more we could
talk about. You've wonderfully in this book,
Sending Church Applied, put together these 17
different elements into those four categories
of establishing, developing, engaging and multiplying.
And over this past few minutes, we've been able
to dip into some of those. But I know there's
so much more to think about as we... We explore
what it looks and feels like theologically and
practically to be sent churches and sending churches
of our God who sends. We need to wrap up. If
a listener were part of a church, perhaps even
in leadership in a local church, what sort of
conversations might you encourage them to have
if they've listened to this podcast? are exploring
or engaging with some of these ideas for the
first time, if they've traditionally encountered
mission sending in quite a reactive rather than
proactive way, what might some of the questions
or conversations be that you would encourage
them to have? To not go alone, that they need
to find some other people in the church that
they can really talk with, because I've found
that if it's one person that we're working with,
It just doesn't necessarily drip throughout the
entire congregation. So find out if there's some
other people that kind of have the same feeling.
Introduce them to that. Be able to get with the
elder board or deacon board, however the church
is structured, the pastors, and try to start
having some of these conversations. Most of the
resources that we try to produce are... relatively
short, especially from the worksheets and such.
It enables you to be able to share them with
a lot of different people in your church, which
is totally cool. And just to get more people
involved in it, don't go at it alone. That'd
be one thing that comes to my mind. Yeah, what
came to mind for me, and this is really from
work that I've been doing with churches outside
the U .S. context. who don't have often all the
bells and whistles and resources that the midsize
to megachurch in the West does. I'm thinking
especially of my friends who are missions pastors
in Cameroon that I've learned so much from and
who are often going at this with such passion,
but so biblically. For example, why not just
open the scriptures with... the other person
or people that Larry referred to that has some
interest in this and say, let's just read through
the scriptures thoughtfully, looking for the
theme of sending, receiving, sent ones. And let's
follow that thread from Genesis to Revelation.
Let's spend some intentional time, especially
in Acts 11 through 18. And as we observe and
we ask the Holy Spirit to stir our hearts and
give us clarity. I think the scriptures will
speak profoundly to that group of people within
that church as to what God has in store for them.
And of course, we want to point to our resources
and our books and all those things. But again,
just thinking about my brothers in Cameroon who
are starting with the scriptures and they're
starting with fasting and praying, I don't want
to say, go to Upstream first. We'll be there.
Go to the Word of God and go to the Holy Spirit
and see how many missions, movements around the
world have happened from just a handful of people
praying together over God's heart for the nations.
So who knows what God might do? That's a wonderful
encouragement. Thank you so much. Brothers, there's
so much more we could talk about. We're very
grateful for your time. So Larry and Brad, we
really appreciate all you're doing. through the
Upstream Collective in the States, all that you're
doing for us here at college these next couple
of days. Thank you for joining us on Oak Hill
College's Deep Roots podcast. And listeners,
we look forward to being with you again in our
next episode shortly.