1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,600 People, good day, good night, good evening, good afternoon, good everything. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:12,200 Welcome back, welcome back. 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:18,600 It's been maybe a little while, but welcome back to the Sunside Kingdom show, 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:24,200 the place where we highlight Dutch Caribbean role models doing epic things in their field. 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:32,400 And today we have with us a very special guest, hailing from the beautiful island of Aruba, 6 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:38,800 with many beautiful beaches, the perfect white sand. 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,400 Aruba doucheterre, as they would say. 8 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,800 Our guest is Ava Cruz. 9 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:52,400 She's a dynamic professional dancer, educator and choreographer. 10 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:57,200 That word has always given me trouble. It's a bit of a tongue twister. 11 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:05,000 Originally from Aruba and now based in Amsterdam, Ava is the founder of EMA Dance Co. 12 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:11,400 And Ava has made her mark globally from performing in Jordan to touring in Germany, 13 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,200 and even gracing the... 14 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,400 You might have to help me with this one, because this is more Spanish. 15 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,000 Benil de la Habana. 16 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,200 Bia Nala de la Habana. 17 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:29,200 Okay, you see, sorry Spanish viewers. 18 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,400 I failed Spanish in high school, man. 19 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:39,200 But beyond her dance career, Ava launched her own IGTV show, What's the Tea? 20 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,000 And co-hosted the Bye Bing. 21 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,400 Okay, so I got that one correct. Bye Bing, Be Right Back podcast, 22 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:52,000 named Docent van la Tiaar in 2022. 23 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,000 She continues to shape the dance scene in the Netherlands and Aruba. 24 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,600 So join us as we dive into this amazing conversation. 25 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:11,800 People, welcome to the Sunside Kingdom Show. 26 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:12,800 So Ava. 27 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,000 What's up? 28 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:14,800 Welcome. 29 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,400 Thank you. Thanks for the invitation. 30 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:18,200 You're welcome. 31 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:23,600 Thanks for coming all the way down from Alkmaar. 32 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,200 If I can actually say... 33 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:26,600 Oh, I shouldn't say where it is. 34 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,800 It's okay, I live in Alkmaar. 35 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,400 Yes, all fine. 36 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:38,200 Yeah, visiting us down in the South today. 37 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:46,400 So tell us a bit about what's life like for you in 2024. 38 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:52,600 Well, I think 2024 has so far been a light year. 39 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,600 And what I mean with that is that I actually I've had quite some health stuff 40 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,200 the past two years. 41 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,600 So I had to take care of that, of course. 42 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,400 And I have to say that this year, after a while, 43 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,600 this year has so far been the year of growth, the year of reflection, 44 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,200 the year of understanding myself better. 45 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,000 Oh, nice. 46 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:22,000 And trying to find my place in what for me feels like this new wave of life. 47 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,600 You know, we were talking earlier about our age 48 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,400 and I really feel like when you hit that 30 mark, 49 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,000 there are definitely some shifts in your life. 50 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,000 And I'm somebody who I can deal with change, 51 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,800 but you have to give me the time to like, 52 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:36,800 to process it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 53 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,800 And in my life, especially. 54 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,800 So no, this year has so far been the year of finding the light. 55 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,200 Nice. And it's very much there. 56 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,600 And I'm enjoying it so far. Nice. 57 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,600 So who is Ava Cruz, the professional? 58 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,400 Because I see dancer, I see docent from the yard. 59 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,600 So that's teacher of the year. 60 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,200 Yeah, less in a nutshell, 61 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,400 if you would give your elevator pitch, who is Ava Cruz? 62 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,000 Okay, I am. 63 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,800 I'm Ava and I'm 32 years old. 64 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,000 And I have been dancing since I was three years old. 65 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,200 So that's 29 years. 66 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,000 Yeah, of experience basically. 67 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,800 And in 2013, I came here and moved to the Netherlands. 68 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,200 I immigrated here along with the Bursalen from the time. 69 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,000 For those of you who don't know the Bursalen are like the group of Caribbean students 70 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,000 who get what they call a burs from their from their islands 71 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,600 so that they can come and study over here. 72 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,400 So I came in with the Bursalen from 2013. 73 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,000 Came to study at the Academy, Amsterdam's hostel for the kunsten. 74 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:48,200 Now it's called Academie voor Theater en Dans, professionalized in education. 75 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:55,600 And then I specialized in ballet and contemporary dance and modern. 76 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,800 It's not an elevator pitch anymore, but that's okay. 77 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:01,600 Yeah, no, who am I as a professional? 78 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,200 I dance, I teach, I choreograph, but I love to be creative. 79 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,600 And if I can earn my money with that as well, that's also a bonus. 80 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,000 So your teaching is primarily in dance? 81 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,800 Yes, I teach dance. 82 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,600 At the moment, I'm also the mentor of a class. 83 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:23,600 So I teach at the ROC in Amsterdam and they have an MBO dance Academy there. 84 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,600 So you have MBO and JABO. 85 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,000 So the MBO is in the vocational level, I'd say. 86 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,400 And then I have students there that are like 15. 87 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,400 And the oldest one is like 20 something. 88 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,400 So they come fresh from the high school era. 89 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,000 And I mentor them in their first year, basically, in their professional trajectory 90 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,000 as they're studying and learning to become professional dancers themselves, of course. 91 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:54,800 So what I'm hearing here is that there's also that sort of dynamic of... 92 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:00,200 I could imagine in the creative arts, besides being a teacher, 93 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,000 you're also a bit of a mentor to these students 94 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,400 in guiding them throughout that journey to some degree. 95 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,800 I mean, I do think it's... I mean, you come to school for a reason. 96 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,600 I must say that lately, these past few years, I've been noticing that, 97 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,200 okay, there are many ways to become a professional. 98 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:25,400 You don't per se have to attend an Academy to get to a certain level. 99 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,200 Because I feel if you have good training and you have good teachers, 100 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:34,400 you can already get there and your own determination, of course, how bad do you want it. 101 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,400 But when you come to school, in this case, when you come to us at Erosse, 102 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,600 yeah, of course, because you're fairly new to the industry. 103 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:49,600 You come from a certain background and now you want to professionalize. 104 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,200 And taking those first few steps is also very hard for them, especially for example, 105 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,600 now we're very much with the social media. 106 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,400 And you have to learn to profile yourself on social media too. 107 00:06:58,400 --> 00:06:59,000 Yeah. 108 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,800 Because a lot of the jobs also come from social media. 109 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,200 So they come and we try to mentor them, yes. 110 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,800 And I think for me, as a mentor now for the fourth year, 111 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:17,200 I think it's about giving them that safe space to allow them to express themselves and not feel judged by it. 112 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:22,200 And I think that's the most important thing that you feel safe enough to be able to express yourself in such a way, 113 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,000 because it's with that, that's what you're going to make your money with. 114 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:26,800 Yeah. 115 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:33,400 And then they need to know what's the important things to know, you know, once I step into the world. 116 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,600 What if a choreographer asks me to stand naked somewhere, for example, and it's kind of like, 117 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:43,200 okay, harsh, intense, but doesn't have an artistic meaning. 118 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,800 You know, you also have to know your boundaries as an artist. 119 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,000 You can't just up and do whatever you want just because you get paid for it. 120 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:54,800 You also have to just feel good about it and know, okay, am I going to be there because you want to see me like that? 121 00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:00,400 Or is it because it really does have a certain artistic meaning and then I'm willing to expand myself as an artist 122 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,700 and stand there and do what you need me to do. 123 00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:06,400 So those are also the things that we try to teach them, you know, how do you make your CV? 124 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,200 How do you have a professional portfolio? 125 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,300 What kind of picture should you have as a dancer? 126 00:08:12,300 --> 00:08:16,800 Because I won't take you seriously as a dancer if you show me a picture in your bikini, for example. 127 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,800 So it's all in those little things and it's in it's MBO. 128 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,600 So obviously we start quite very much at the basics of the foundations of certain styles. 129 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,200 And once you graduate and you want to go to HBO, it's a whole different thing. 130 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:34,800 You have to study essays, study papers, learn about education, learn about how do students think, 131 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,400 you know, puberbrain because I specialize in puber's. 132 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,400 So I also very much have to dive into like, okay, how does a teenager think? 133 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,200 How does a teenager feel? 134 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,800 Yeah. 135 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,000 And I have to say I enjoy it because teenagers are teenagers. 136 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,200 They just tell it like it is. 137 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:56,000 And I'm kind of like, yes, but there are more perspectives for you to learn from. 138 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,300 And that's what we're there for basically. 139 00:08:58,300 --> 00:09:04,400 I would imagine that your mom placed you in dance, but somewhere along the way. 140 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,800 Your own passion for it grew. 141 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,800 And what were your true influences? 142 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,700 Well, you're right about my mom because I grew up with my mom. 143 00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:14,100 I did grow up with my father. 144 00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:20,500 So when my mom was pregnant of me, she and my dad had split. 145 00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:27,500 But my mom had an inkling that my father's genetics would definitely take over 146 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:30,200 because my father is a very tall man. 147 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:31,300 Okay. 148 00:09:31,300 --> 00:09:33,200 He's like two meters something. 149 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,400 I'm five foot ten. 150 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,600 So I'm like 180. 151 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:36,000 Yeah. 152 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,400 So you're also a tall lady. 153 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:38,700 I'm a pretty tall girl. 154 00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:40,600 For a female, I'd say I'm pretty tall. 155 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:41,100 Yeah. 156 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:46,200 And from what I understood, my mom was like, it's because I knew that you were probably 157 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,200 going to be a very tall girl that I decided to put you into ballet class because then 158 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,700 you in any case could have like a nice posture, you know, carry yourself a little properly. 159 00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:58,200 But I yeah, but I think a little bit my mother know that putting me on dance class was 160 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,200 actually going to be like a slight introduction to my future. 161 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,700 Yeah. 162 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:06,500 And I started with ballet. 163 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:08,200 Later on, I moved on to tap. 164 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:08,800 I loved it. 165 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,300 I also did sports. 166 00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:11,800 I even did tennis at the time. 167 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,800 And I say it with a certain tone because my father is a tennis instructor. 168 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,600 And at the time he was also a tennis instructor. 169 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,500 So I think I did tennis and it wasn't really my thing. 170 00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:25,100 And I was kind of like, hmm, not so sure if I want to keep doing this. 171 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:26,200 I also did volleyball. 172 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:26,800 Loved it. 173 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,700 Basketball wasn't my thing. 174 00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:34,000 I could have been great, but no, but I always stopped back to dance. 175 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,400 You know, my cousins also always did. 176 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,800 We let's just say our parents put us on like extracurricular activities, especially for 177 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,000 after school because they were working. 178 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,800 And I think it's better that you put your kid on some type of hobby activity than if 179 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,000 you take the streets, you know, yeah. 180 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,000 So we all did something. 181 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,600 So the guys, the boys usually would be into soccer or baseball, which I also enjoy by 182 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,400 the way. 183 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,200 And the girls, in this case, me and my cousin, she did gymnastics. 184 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,100 She also did dance, but I don't think she liked it as much as gymnastics. 185 00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:06,000 She did the gymnastics and I stuck to dance. 186 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:12,700 And yeah, the influences I had were I think as a kid, you just you just do something 187 00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:14,200 because you like it. 188 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:20,300 But once I turned 16 and I got a little bit older and more mature in that, then I 189 00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:22,100 started to take it very much seriously. 190 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:23,500 Yeah, very seriously. 191 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:25,900 Yeah, it became something so important to me. 192 00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:27,200 It even went above school. 193 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,900 Yeah, you know, I didn't care that I had exams. 194 00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:30,700 I had dance. 195 00:11:30,700 --> 00:11:32,200 I had to perform mom. 196 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:32,800 Hello. 197 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,700 No, the grades weren't there, babe. 198 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:39,400 The grades weren't there, you know, so and that's what I said earlier to very stubborn. 199 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,600 Yeah, very a you know, I don't need a stupid diploma. 200 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:43,400 I just want to dance. 201 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:44,500 You say, but you need your diploma. 202 00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:46,000 So you better work for it. 203 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:46,400 Yeah. 204 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:48,700 Yeah. 205 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,800 And I'm the one who in the end also just went for it. 206 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,500 You know, I must say that my cousins, they all do something either in I have a cousin 207 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:57,700 who's a lawyer, another cousin who is in marketing. 208 00:11:57,700 --> 00:12:00,400 I think the other cause is also into marketing or communication, something like that. 209 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:01,500 And I'm the dancer. 210 00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:05,000 The free spirit. 211 00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:07,300 I'd like to see it that way. 212 00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:08,300 Yeah, exactly. 213 00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:12,300 I'd really like to see it that way because I see sometimes when we do get together, which 214 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:15,900 doesn't happen often because we all have our own lives that they're also very much like, 215 00:12:15,900 --> 00:12:17,400 but what do you do exactly? 216 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:18,400 What is a day like? 217 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,300 What is a day in your life look like, you know, and then they're like, Whoa, okay. 218 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:24,400 Yeah, no, I that's not for me. 219 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,000 Yeah, great for you. 220 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:26,900 It's not for us. 221 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:28,400 And I'm like, that's totally okay, too. 222 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,100 Exactly to each his own. 223 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:31,100 Exactly that. 224 00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:31,600 Exactly. 225 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:42,400 Who are some of the mentors, the persons that that really helped guide you along the way 226 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:50,000 towards professionalize in and and and when maybe some of those crazy statements were 227 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,500 made by a teenage Ava were like, okay, but 228 00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:54,500 Okay. 229 00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:57,500 Well, teenage Ava is not the Ava you see today. 230 00:12:57,500 --> 00:13:00,300 Teenage Ava was difficult. 231 00:13:00,300 --> 00:13:06,300 Okay, not difficult as in I mean, you could definitely teach me something. 232 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:08,500 But you know when you're because I'm only kid. 233 00:13:08,500 --> 00:13:10,400 Hey, so yeah. 234 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:11,500 Yeah. 235 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:20,100 I'm very stubborn and very eigenwijs and I always felt like I just knew better and who 236 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,300 are you and why are you talking to me? 237 00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:25,400 It was just terrible and looking back at that kid. 238 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:30,400 I was like, oh, you really need a good straightening out, but no problem. 239 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:35,400 Well, the people who definitely brought me to where I am. 240 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,500 I have to think immediately of four teachers. 241 00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:42,300 The first one is definitely Maera Struken. 242 00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:48,200 I don't know if she'll ever listen to this podcast, but Maera was definitely a big source 243 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,300 of inspiration for me because I knew that she also came to Holland to professionalize 244 00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:53,500 and studied at an Academy. 245 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:54,200 Yeah. 246 00:13:54,200 --> 00:14:01,200 And she believed very much in my drive and my motivation to come here and also do the 247 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:07,200 same and I appreciated that so much because the first I remember before I even thought 248 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,200 about coming to Holland to audition. 249 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,400 It was with her that I've for example went to New York with and we took dance classes 250 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:14,000 together. 251 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:19,500 And you know after dance classes, she would also always give me like good motivational 252 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:20,900 talks about what is important. 253 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:25,100 Remember what you need as a dancer and remember that dancing you have to take care of your 254 00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:29,400 body and it's not just about the mentality, but you're also very much there emotionally 255 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,100 and called Hill full by kai can I look and those are the things that you don't always 256 00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:35,100 really understand before you move here. 257 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:38,700 Yeah, she was a really great source of inspiration. 258 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:42,600 Another great source of inspiration is Samantha Samantha Vestra. 259 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,100 She is the owner of the dance school where I danced on a ruba that sent you a tree as 260 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:48,300 well. 261 00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:49,200 Yeah, exactly. 262 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:54,100 So the fact that she already had a school and she provided such a safe space for her 263 00:14:54,100 --> 00:15:00,900 students to be able to come and take classes and actually she was the one who some Samantha 264 00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:05,200 has always been a very ambitious woman and she very much wanted us to have our international 265 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,700 experiences too because it was a small Island. 266 00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:12,700 So the professional chances or the professional stage doesn't always come close enough. 267 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:15,100 Yeah, but she would always look it up. 268 00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:21,000 So this woman took us to New Jersey dance competition and totally opened our eyes and 269 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,000 our minds of what dance looks like in different places in the world. 270 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,200 So how old were you when you went there? 271 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,700 I think I went there when I was 16. 272 00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:38,500 I wouldn't have even seen that if it wasn't for her beautiful and another teacher who 273 00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:44,000 I am so grateful for who is now one of my bestest friends and that's Alidia Weaver. 274 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:49,100 Alidia had always included me in her productions on a ruba already because she's a multidisciplinary 275 00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:53,900 artist this woman does so much and now she lives here in Holland since 2018 which is 276 00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:56,800 amazing because the projects that she does here. 277 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,200 She also includes me. 278 00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:58,600 Awesome. 279 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:04,400 So she has very much been a big part of my growth as a dancer in my experience because 280 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,400 her performances and her projects if I may call them. 281 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,400 Yeah, kind of forces you to step out of your comfort zone. 282 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:24,500 So let me tap back on tennis because I also heard well in our mini conversation before 283 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:32,100 the official conversation that you might not have been great at tennis or like tennis as 284 00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:40,200 much even though your dad was a tennis instructor but there was a sport adjacent to tennis that 285 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:41,600 you were pretty good at. 286 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,600 Yeah. 287 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:44,100 Okay. 288 00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:46,600 So for context I think this can be very confusing. 289 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,000 So I grew up with my mom. 290 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,700 She and my dad had split before I was born. 291 00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:59,600 So I was never really visually never in touch with my father never communicated with him 292 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,200 and yeah, I just don't think the recognition was there, you know as a father. 293 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,400 Yeah, like oh, yeah, I am your biological father. 294 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,700 So it just wasn't there. 295 00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:08,400 Yeah. 296 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:15,400 And I think as a kid I didn't quite understand that because I do recall asking my mom like 297 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,600 so how come my cousins have two parents and I have one? 298 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,800 Yeah. 299 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,100 But it didn't matter at the time because I felt like having my mother was also just 300 00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:27,400 quite enough and I as I said before I also had my aunt and my cousins and it just felt 301 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,000 good. 302 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:28,700 Yeah. 303 00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:37,300 And well your extended family also sort of yeah fill potentially part of the void exactly, 304 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:39,200 you know as a kid is still confusing. 305 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:45,300 Yeah, it is confusing because you're kind of like I love you mom, but where's the father? 306 00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:50,300 You know, and I think for a mom it's very hard to hear your kid ask you that and you're 307 00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:53,600 like, ah, you're too young to understand certain things. 308 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:53,900 Yeah. 309 00:17:53,900 --> 00:18:00,300 So I never really got a concrete answer from her at the time, but I heard stories and I 310 00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:05,700 also heard stories from my aunt and her partner who knew my father too as well. 311 00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:14,200 So because I spent a lot of time there and at the time I think I was maybe 12 or 11 12 312 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,300 13 something like that. 313 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:23,300 They had gotten this ping pong table and my cousin and I would spend hours at that ping 314 00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:25,600 pong table because for us it was like a moment of catching up. 315 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,100 So how was your day? 316 00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:27,500 How was it? 317 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:31,600 I was good and switch and we would be spending hours at the ping pong. 318 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,100 Sounds I can hear it. 319 00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:38,200 It's like it's just I don't know. 320 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,200 It's a specific ball and it's the table that causes it to make a certain noise and that 321 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:44,200 noise just sticks around. 322 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,500 But for me it was just a moment that I could connect with my cousin, but it was also a 323 00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:53,900 moment that I was actually without realizing it practicing a certain skill. 324 00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:58,700 Yeah, tennis is not the same as ping pong, but there's still technique. 325 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:00,900 Yeah, you need to know how to play proper tennis. 326 00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:04,900 You need to know how to play proper ping pong and something that was actually just the 327 00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:09,400 thing that I do as a way to spend time with my cousin. 328 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:19,600 I realized later later later that actually me being able to play ping pong is actually 329 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,100 a genetic thing. 330 00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:25,900 Yeah, I don't play it anymore. 331 00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:31,100 But I think if I were if you give me a ping pong table and a ball and the I don't know 332 00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:32,100 what you call it racket. 333 00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:33,900 Sorry. 334 00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:34,400 Paddle. 335 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:34,800 Yeah. 336 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,400 Yeah, exactly the paddle that I would still quite have the neck of it and it would be 337 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:41,400 quite okay. 338 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:42,400 And I found out later. 339 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:48,800 I think I found out like three years ago 2021 that my father's brother was a professional 340 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:49,800 ping pong player. 341 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,900 Yeah, and that kind of like passed down to me somehow. 342 00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:58,100 So that was like a huge sort of aha moment then. 343 00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:00,100 Yeah, you want me to dive into it? 344 00:20:00,100 --> 00:20:01,100 I'm allowed. 345 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:02,700 Okay, I'm going to dive into it. 346 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:04,300 Okay, so do you want to dive? 347 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:09,700 I will dive into it because earlier this year in March I also had a performance where I 348 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:12,500 where I talked about this and now I'm kind of like it's okay. 349 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:18,200 I can talk about it without having to feel hurt or whatever. 350 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,800 Okay, so I've been living here since 2013. 351 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,800 So I came here and graduated started working etc. 352 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:34,500 And obviously very much just in trying to get to know what my sister islands are doing, 353 00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:39,700 what kind of creative and artistic people are there on Curacao and Bonaire and Aruba 354 00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:41,500 because I also come from a certain generation. 355 00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:46,500 So before me and after me obviously there have been many people who do other types of 356 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:48,600 disciplinary stuff in the arts. 357 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:54,800 So at one point I was on Instagram and I think a while back many many years ago. 358 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,000 I started following this actor called Anton de Bies. 359 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:05,100 He's from Curacao and in 2021 I was just very innocently scrolling through my Instagram 360 00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:11,540 and I see that he had posted something new on his gram and he was like hey you guys wanted 361 00:21:11,540 --> 00:21:16,300 to let you know that a new work of mine is going to premiere on MPO and it's called the 362 00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:22,260 Druvige Kampioen and it's the story about Robert Jose and I was like Robert Jose. 363 00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:28,500 I don't recognize Robert but I recognize Jose because I know from my from my mom that my 364 00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:32,100 father's my biological father his last name is also Jose. 365 00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:37,200 So I was like oh should I message. 366 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,200 So I did. 367 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:39,900 You messaged with the actor. 368 00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,340 I asked I messaged Anton. 369 00:21:42,340 --> 00:21:47,140 And I was like hey how are you you have no idea who I am but I wanted to let you know 370 00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:48,500 that I've seen works of yours before. 371 00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:54,180 I love it and I see that you're going to be that you have new works coming out and it's 372 00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:59,620 going to be on MPO and I saw that it's from Robert Jose and I wanted to know if you by 373 00:21:59,620 --> 00:22:06,740 any chance happen to know if he has any relation to Humphrey Jose which is the name of my biological 374 00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:13,620 father and he's like hey yeah that's his brother and I was like huh and he's like yeah you 375 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:14,620 should check it out. 376 00:22:14,620 --> 00:22:18,540 I mean the episodes are coming out this Friday or something and I'm like I'm not going to 377 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:27,660 wait until Friday to find out more about where I come from especially on the side of my father. 378 00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:32,220 So I was at my partner's house at the time I'm like when oh my god MPO. 379 00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:33,220 Heb jij abonnement? 380 00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:37,340 She's like yeah yeah what's wrong what's wrong and I'm like this and this just happened. 381 00:22:37,340 --> 00:22:40,900 She's like oh but volgens mij kan je gewoon alles vooraf kijken hoor and I'm like well 382 00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:43,780 that's exactly what I'm going to do. 383 00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:48,980 So the documentary or the doku series because it's like three or four episodes excuse me 384 00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:54,940 because it's been three years and I have only seen it once for a reason I'll get to that. 385 00:22:54,940 --> 00:23:01,480 I watched the whole thing in one day so it was like me the couch water tissues popcorn 386 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:12,100 four hours of just non-stop tears and new knowledge about somebody who is related to 387 00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:22,660 me and especially from the aside that I have no clue who and how and what and how you know 388 00:23:22,660 --> 00:23:25,380 how much this is also a part of myself. 389 00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:29,300 It's the unfamiliar that I don't know. 390 00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:35,420 So it turns out I could imagine that part of that is shocking could have been quite difficult 391 00:23:35,420 --> 00:23:37,220 it was shocking. 392 00:23:37,220 --> 00:23:46,780 It took me at least a year to get over it and not get over the fact that the unfamiliar 393 00:23:46,780 --> 00:23:54,620 is now less unfamiliar but the shock of the story behind Robert. 394 00:23:54,620 --> 00:24:00,740 So the series is called De Droevige Kampioen and it's based off of a book that was written 395 00:24:00,740 --> 00:24:04,260 excuse me I don't know the name of the writer at the moment but anyway a Dutch writer who 396 00:24:04,260 --> 00:24:08,900 had spent quite some time with Robert and based off of the stories and the hours that 397 00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:14,460 he had spent with Robert he decided to write a book about him and about his journey and 398 00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:19,780 how he actually became a champion a ping-pong champion. 399 00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:27,220 My uncle's a legend honestly if I may my uncle's a legend and I gotta say I must because 400 00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:30,260 facts are facts so is my father. 401 00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:34,860 You've had your career in the tennis world you've made your name you've gotten your names 402 00:24:34,860 --> 00:24:39,000 in different places around the world it is amazing and you're still teaching the generation 403 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,440 of today how to play proper tennis super cool you know but I felt more relation towards 404 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:57,220 my uncle because of the ping-pong factor you know and my uncle was a ping-pong champion 405 00:24:57,220 --> 00:25:02,020 he had suffered an injury on his foot because he also started out as a tennis player just 406 00:25:02,020 --> 00:25:06,500 like my father did but because of his injury on his archelous base he couldn't run long 407 00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:09,700 distances anymore which you know in tennis it's like you need to go from left to right 408 00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:11,020 and left to right etc. 409 00:25:11,020 --> 00:25:15,420 It's quite some it's quite some physicality there and he couldn't do it but he could still 410 00:25:15,420 --> 00:25:19,780 swing yeah so that's why he ended up in the ping-pong world and he became super good at 411 00:25:19,780 --> 00:25:24,440 it and yeah he also became quite a figure for the people back then from the generation 412 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:29,900 of people who are very much you know 10 10 10 you know the yeah the right the right height 413 00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:34,060 of kurosawa of course and he was one of the people who spoke about the freedom of the 414 00:25:34,060 --> 00:25:38,540 people and why it's important to embrace his new time the kurosawa is is heading towards 415 00:25:38,540 --> 00:25:41,360 etc. 416 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:47,500 So he made a name for himself as a ping-pong player and at one point he also got to tour 417 00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:54,380 the world play different matches play different people play other ping-pong enthusiasts that 418 00:25:54,380 --> 00:25:58,660 were also very much active at the time and then I think I guess as they depicted it in 419 00:25:58,660 --> 00:26:04,180 the series along the road he he had gotten into the drugs and it was very difficult for 420 00:26:04,180 --> 00:26:10,620 him to kick off of it so returning back to kurosawa he he got so deep into it at one 421 00:26:10,620 --> 00:26:17,700 point he also became a homeless man and the writer of the book said also in the in the 422 00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:22,020 book because I had read it and he said that most of the times that he had spent with Robert 423 00:26:22,020 --> 00:26:28,620 were on the streets in his little home in the woods somewhere in kurosawa etc. and yeah 424 00:26:28,620 --> 00:26:34,740 and for me seeing that because I saw people in the series that made me question like oh 425 00:26:34,740 --> 00:26:42,060 is this a family friend is this an uncle too are you my aunt are you my cousin like it's 426 00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:49,300 so shocking and I mean this in itself almost sounds like a movie it was it was truly I 427 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:54,500 was so shocked I didn't even know how to tell my friends about it because how do you even 428 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:58,700 go about something like that you know you're just scrolling innocently on your instagram 429 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:02,420 you find out that someone you follow is playing the role of somebody who is actually your 430 00:27:02,420 --> 00:27:08,540 your your family and yeah and I told my mom and she was like oh wow you know that's that's 431 00:27:08,540 --> 00:27:15,460 intense you know because she always my mother had always wondered what was it about my father's 432 00:27:15,460 --> 00:27:20,500 family that was so you know sometimes you feel like there's something in a family alka haisha 433 00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:26,580 hevesen krayas you know and my mom knew that something had happened in that family yeah 434 00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:30,940 but apparently it wasn't something that was so openly spoken about but it came about in 435 00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:37,780 the series and it turned out that my that on the side of my father this is intense so 436 00:27:37,780 --> 00:27:44,540 if you haven't seen the series I'm about to spoil it for you spoiler alert yeah it turned 437 00:27:44,540 --> 00:27:51,580 out that my grandfather so my father's father was quite an alcoholic and he was pretty abusive 438 00:27:51,580 --> 00:27:56,760 so one evening he had come home very drunk you know he had already a couple of drinks 439 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,620 down etc and I guess my grandmother at least that's how I that's how it was depicted in 440 00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:04,780 the series my grandmother wasn't very happy about it of course you see your husband coming 441 00:28:04,780 --> 00:28:09,060 home drunk and she had said something about it like yeah come on take care of yourself 442 00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:20,540 what is this etc and I think in his in his episode and machismo he stabbed her oh couple 443 00:28:20,540 --> 00:28:30,940 of times leaving her there she died no I'm coming to it she was just heavily injured 444 00:28:30,940 --> 00:28:39,580 wow and he was not aware that his son had witnessed it oh so he was like ah shit I fucked 445 00:28:39,580 --> 00:28:46,540 up okay um you know what grab your stuff let's go for a drive my grandfather said to one 446 00:28:46,540 --> 00:28:52,620 of his sons I'm assuming my uncle drowns I'm not quite sure but there were more kids so 447 00:28:52,620 --> 00:28:56,620 I think there were like four children or something and then I think for them it was quite normal 448 00:28:56,620 --> 00:29:01,460 okay yeah we're gonna do a drive with dad let's go super fun and it was late at night 449 00:29:01,460 --> 00:29:06,620 and it was him and the kids and they went for a drive and he had like a jetty can next 450 00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:13,340 to him and they were driving driving driving yes I see your eyes already yeah they were 451 00:29:13,340 --> 00:29:20,620 driving and then at one point he stopped somewhere along the beach and he took the jetty can 452 00:29:20,620 --> 00:29:26,300 he drank whatever was in that jetty can and he passed so the kids kind of just saw their 453 00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:33,300 dad died in front of their eyes and yeah it was intense it was intense and then my grandmother 454 00:29:33,300 --> 00:29:41,100 survived my grandfather's attack and I think from then on she kind of like picked herself 455 00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:45,540 up and she was like let's go we're gonna go to Aruba yeah we need a fresh start you know 456 00:29:45,540 --> 00:29:51,700 I can't stay here anymore and that's how it came about and Robert the ping-pong player 457 00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:58,940 he was he the eldest I'm not sure those are the details that I wish that I knew but I 458 00:29:58,940 --> 00:30:05,980 I want to say I don't think so I think my father was older than him okay um and he obviously 459 00:30:05,980 --> 00:30:10,740 um well my father stayed in Aruba he did his tennis etc he did his practice because he 460 00:30:10,740 --> 00:30:15,180 represented Aruba at the Wimbledon but Aruba didn't have a team at the time so he had to 461 00:30:15,180 --> 00:30:21,500 represent Venezuela but my uncle he wanted to go back to Curacao because he really wanted 462 00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:25,780 to you know be something from Curacao etc represent Curacao in different places in this 463 00:30:25,780 --> 00:30:32,900 case for his ping-pong his ping-pong career but he also he had his own sports shop on 464 00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:36,020 Aruba we have this place called Mario's sports shop it doesn't it doesn't exist anymore I 465 00:30:36,020 --> 00:30:40,980 gotta look at Claire I don't know if you know if Mario's sports shop still exists it does 466 00:30:40,980 --> 00:30:47,540 not sure okay I'm so sorry but the owner of that shop also played ping-pong with my uncle 467 00:30:47,540 --> 00:30:52,020 you know so it's the little things you know and in the series if you if you take a look 468 00:30:52,020 --> 00:30:56,740 at it because it's like four episodes of like an hour each one of them and you see the struggles 469 00:30:56,740 --> 00:31:01,060 that he also had you know like for example he had a sports shop and then the sports shop 470 00:31:01,060 --> 00:31:06,980 didn't go well and he needed money and then he burns the building down so that the insurance 471 00:31:06,980 --> 00:31:11,700 could give him the money for it and all kinds of stuff and I was like oh my goodness you 472 00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:16,180 know and it just kept getting worse and worse like shit hit the fan multiple times in that 473 00:31:16,180 --> 00:31:26,060 series and I would be like whoa yo can I say something of course yes of course you can 474 00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:35,700 you know so the life is a funny thing and at times we can also question when certain 475 00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:43,820 parts of our life is maybe feels incomplete or parts are missing but it also sounds like 476 00:31:43,820 --> 00:31:51,060 if all that could potentially transpire there that maybe there was also a bit of a blessing 477 00:31:51,060 --> 00:32:01,340 in disguise of not being fully connected if you get what I'm saying um yeah I do understand 478 00:32:01,340 --> 00:32:05,940 what you're saying um the fact that I can even tell this story to you I'm happy that 479 00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:13,140 I know this yeah but I wouldn't have known it if I didn't stumble across that post you 480 00:32:13,140 --> 00:32:20,780 know because I don't know if I would have been so um intrigued to go and look up my 481 00:32:20,780 --> 00:32:29,460 uncle if I didn't know who he was and it was legit just by the last name that I decided 482 00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:34,900 to message Anton is this guy related to my father because otherwise otherwise I wouldn't 483 00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:42,540 have done it yeah you know I wouldn't have done it um but yeah it it yeah I want to say 484 00:32:42,540 --> 00:32:47,180 if you really want to know more about it watch it it's on npo it's called the druvige kampioen 485 00:32:47,180 --> 00:32:52,340 it's heavy it's not a it's not something yeah it's gonna it's gonna hurt you it's gonna 486 00:32:52,340 --> 00:32:56,700 make you cry because it's hardships and challenges and the reality of a person who really did 487 00:32:56,700 --> 00:33:02,300 lead such a life you know um he passed away last year I understood I think somewhere in 488 00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:06,500 october he passed away which I thought was such a pity because I would have been more 489 00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:13,740 inclined to approach him than for example approach my father yeah um and how I would 490 00:33:13,740 --> 00:33:17,580 have done that I think about that so often like if if you were alive and I was in curacao 491 00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:22,180 and I would get the chance to talk to him like what would I say like hey at the boss 492 00:33:22,180 --> 00:33:30,380 Sabrina key like hey your niece I also played ping pong by the way um oh by the way I didn't 493 00:33:30,380 --> 00:33:34,700 take the tennis path I took the artistic path I hope that's good you know can we still connect 494 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:38,780 in that way I don't know I don't know and I'll never get that chance and that's totally 495 00:33:38,780 --> 00:33:43,980 okay I've made peace with that but yeah yeah I do see it indeed as a blessing in the skies 496 00:33:43,980 --> 00:33:49,380 that although I didn't grow up knowing much about that side of me this provided a certain 497 00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:56,220 information that is very important and pivotal for me yeah um yes it took me a long time 498 00:33:56,220 --> 00:34:00,680 to settle with the fact that this is also a part of me yeah um and it's in that series 499 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,580 that I actually found out about the slavery side of my father you know and yeah that it 500 00:34:05,580 --> 00:34:09,980 explains why I look the way I look and why I feel the way I feel and especially also 501 00:34:09,980 --> 00:34:13,900 from the influence from my mother's side absolutely you know I'm such a Latina girl but I'm also 502 00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:22,220 such a Caribbean chicken general I have Aruba, Carcao, Colombia, India, Venezuela um I understood 503 00:34:22,220 --> 00:34:25,860 that my great-grandfather was a slave from Africa what part of Africa I don't know but 504 00:34:25,860 --> 00:34:31,660 wow knowing that that's also a part of me yeah that I have some kind of sense of pride 505 00:34:31,660 --> 00:34:42,700 in that yeah you know um but his story is a story that I continue to tell people because 506 00:34:42,700 --> 00:34:50,180 as shocking as it was it is a real story yeah and it's a story that I yeah it also had a 507 00:34:50,180 --> 00:34:58,540 significant impact on the way I live and the way that I am and giving you also more let's 508 00:34:58,540 --> 00:35:04,980 say coloring a part of your story that has been a bit of a blank space yeah I never put 509 00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:08,660 any color there that's so true because we were talking about the gray area yeah yeah 510 00:35:08,660 --> 00:35:12,540 no this was no polished area absolutely not because I didn't know how to fill it in in 511 00:35:12,540 --> 00:35:15,980 the first place I think it's very difficult for you to fill in a space if you don't know 512 00:35:15,980 --> 00:35:20,940 what belongs in that space exactly you know and I very much had that with uh with that 513 00:35:20,940 --> 00:35:29,260 side of me but um what I find also super super um then you really know how small the world 514 00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:34,660 really is um in 2022 when I saw the series of course I was still very much talking about 515 00:35:34,660 --> 00:35:38,180 it with people because it was so shocking I had to talk about it you know that's my 516 00:35:38,180 --> 00:35:42,980 way of process exactly I had to process it in a way and I especially talked to people 517 00:35:42,980 --> 00:35:48,620 from Curacao because I was always wondering like hey by chance do you have do you does 518 00:35:48,620 --> 00:35:53,900 the name Roberto say sound familiar to you because he's a homeless guy in Curacao so 519 00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:58,540 I don't know if he looks familiar so I even show pictures like oh my god yeah I've seen 520 00:35:58,540 --> 00:36:05,780 him he walks around by D&D supermarket and I'm like ah well I'm happy that you saw him 521 00:36:05,780 --> 00:36:11,980 you know it kind of gives me that feeling of like okay he because in Aruba when I was 522 00:36:11,980 --> 00:36:16,780 little I would look at the homeless people and I'd be scared but if now when I'm grown 523 00:36:16,780 --> 00:36:20,460 I look at them and I'm like ah you know just some wrong decisions along the way you know 524 00:36:20,460 --> 00:36:25,560 yeah um and I see my uncle in that sense too because in the series they also show how they 525 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,700 really tried to get him off the streets but he just didn't want to he didn't want to and 526 00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:33,980 he really just wanted to live his life his way and I have a lot of respect for that the 527 00:36:33,980 --> 00:36:40,140 freedom and that obviously it wasn't the best choice for him at the time but yeah I this 528 00:36:40,140 --> 00:36:45,180 the title the group of a camp you know yeah it's a tragic story but it's also a story 529 00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:50,100 that like if I talk to you now I'm so happy that I could tell it to you because because 530 00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:55,940 it's an impactful story and I do want to say that you should watch it I'm definitely gonna 531 00:36:55,940 --> 00:37:00,540 you should watch it it's very heartbreaking and it's a very harsh reality especially from 532 00:37:00,540 --> 00:37:05,180 that time you know 10 10 10 yeah it was a quite impactful time for the Caribbean region 533 00:37:05,180 --> 00:37:13,100 specifically Cura South and and uh St. Martin and other islands and he he was part of that 534 00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:20,740 and I think that's cool. 535 00:37:20,740 --> 00:37:26,500 So it sounds like um the what what was the first lady's name? 536 00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:35,820 Um Mayra. Mayra so so Mayra provided a lot of um almost sounds like a bit of emotional 537 00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:41,460 support on along the journey and a lot of these talks that stayed with you and then 538 00:37:41,460 --> 00:37:46,500 was it Stephanie? Samantha. Samantha oh sorry Samantha. Samantha was the one who opened 539 00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:54,100 her students eyes. Opened the eyes and and and brought you to new shores and and and 540 00:37:54,100 --> 00:38:02,660 a whole other world and then um Alidia is the one that showed you that beyond dance 541 00:38:02,660 --> 00:38:08,140 the creative in you the artist in you can also bloom and create whatever that comes 542 00:38:08,140 --> 00:38:17,860 to mind in whatever location that is available to you. Yeah absolutely and I think you know 543 00:38:17,860 --> 00:38:21,740 it's funny because you said people who do epic things and I'm like okay am I one of 544 00:38:21,740 --> 00:38:25,580 those people because I know a lot of people who do epic things like you you know we had 545 00:38:25,580 --> 00:38:30,220 a whole conversation before we started recording I'm kind of like this is epic too you know 546 00:38:30,220 --> 00:38:35,460 but yeah these are people that definitely even 20 years from now 30 years from now maybe 547 00:38:35,460 --> 00:38:39,220 even if I ever stop dancing these are still the people that I'm very much grateful for 548 00:38:39,220 --> 00:38:43,700 because I wouldn't even have a living yeah you know so yeah definitely these are the 549 00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:51,620 people that I I take with me for sure. Well sorry you probably would have a live in but 550 00:38:51,620 --> 00:38:56,860 you wouldn't have a purposeful living. I want to say I wouldn't have a living in the sense 551 00:38:56,860 --> 00:39:01,500 of like that that you're really connecting to the core and what you're passionate about 552 00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:07,820 exactly and discovering what dancing means for me you know and how can I make a living 553 00:39:07,820 --> 00:39:11,820 with that yeah because I'm pretty sure we're going to talk about this too but I think a 554 00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:16,580 lot of people just have that um I don't want to say an assumption but I think people have 555 00:39:16,580 --> 00:39:22,140 the impression that you can't do that yeah um well you very much can't make a living 556 00:39:22,140 --> 00:39:28,820 with as an art as an artist or as a creative or with a certain art form etc and I do think 557 00:39:28,820 --> 00:39:36,620 that you have to really try and do more homework in order to find out what you can do in order 558 00:39:36,620 --> 00:39:42,700 to make that happen but as I said I had never any other interest in any other subject or 559 00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:49,540 art form or other ways of so could you unpack that a bit how how do you make a living with 560 00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:59,820 dance okay listen okay first of all should I take a sip you can take a sip um as I said 561 00:39:59,820 --> 00:40:05,100 there are so many ways to be able to make it out there for me it happened like this 562 00:40:05,100 --> 00:40:10,140 I had been dancing since I was three years old um and I think my teachers saw that it 563 00:40:10,140 --> 00:40:16,860 was just something that I enjoy doing um I'm also quite expressive so I also very very 564 00:40:16,860 --> 00:40:22,620 so often I got the opportunity to also just take like a lead role in a production or I 565 00:40:22,620 --> 00:40:26,900 could be a soloist or I don't know I think the potential was just there and they trusted 566 00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:32,860 me enough to be able to to get on with it um when I was 16 I realized okay I want to 567 00:40:32,860 --> 00:40:40,100 do this um also because I must say my my my body can handle it you know I'm a very um 568 00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:45,580 yeah athletic type of person yeah so I kind of like okay if I have to dance I'm gonna 569 00:40:45,580 --> 00:40:54,540 dance you know I'm willing so when I when I got here and that was in 2013 um well it 570 00:40:54,540 --> 00:41:01,580 was a bit of a shock because you come and live here which is so different than what 571 00:41:01,580 --> 00:41:06,860 you're used to back home that's true you're from st martin so you know um and your partner 572 00:41:06,860 --> 00:41:12,380 also knows clear you know leaving Aruba and coming here initially it's going to be very 573 00:41:12,380 --> 00:41:16,820 shocking for you yeah and I have to say that if it wasn't for the dance I don't know if 574 00:41:16,820 --> 00:41:21,820 I would have actually made it made it yeah the dancing was not just what I came to study 575 00:41:21,820 --> 00:41:27,540 but it was at the same time also my coping mechanism so I studied for four years and 576 00:41:27,540 --> 00:41:32,820 within those four years I met where did you study Amsterdam's hoogeschofere kunsten okay 577 00:41:32,820 --> 00:41:37,260 academie vier theater en als het in Amsterdam met de water looplijn within the four years 578 00:41:37,260 --> 00:41:43,900 I met a lot of other dancers uh either Dutch or Belgian or African there were some Caribbean 579 00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:48,860 students but not a lot at the time I hope that changes of course yeah and teachers because 580 00:41:48,860 --> 00:41:56,540 that's your first network yeah your classmates and your teachers and um you just have to 581 00:41:56,540 --> 00:42:01,620 try and figure out what it is that you want because I knew already that I wasn't going 582 00:42:01,620 --> 00:42:06,900 to be what they call a wooden the dancer so I decided to go for the dance education instead 583 00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:12,620 because I kind of feel like you can dance but if you can teach that also has a bigger 584 00:42:12,620 --> 00:42:17,940 uh how you call that like a bigger market for you yeah because I kind of feel like with 585 00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:21,900 the teaching you can really earn as a dancer as well but most of the time you're based 586 00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:26,700 off of contracts well if you're a teacher yeah you have a certain stability exactly 587 00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:33,740 yeah so I went for that and obviously while you're studying you do a lot of internships 588 00:42:33,740 --> 00:42:39,980 you start already with little kids which was not my thing and you go you kind of go through 589 00:42:39,980 --> 00:42:44,340 all the generations so you start with the little ones you go from the clutter then the 590 00:42:44,340 --> 00:42:53,220 peuter then kleuter, basisschool, middelbare school, zelfvolwassenen, ouderen etc and 591 00:42:53,220 --> 00:42:58,980 and yeah I gotta say I had a lot of internships and within those internships I scored some 592 00:42:58,980 --> 00:43:04,080 jobs and that's kind of how it starts yeah if you can score a job before you graduate 593 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,900 you're you're okay because you need to have some type of income because once you once 594 00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:14,140 you're done studying yeah duo is not going to keep sponsoring you yes and you have to 595 00:43:14,140 --> 00:43:18,980 make sure that whatever you earn is kind of equivalent to what you used to get from duo 596 00:43:18,980 --> 00:43:25,700 or a little bit more yeah so mind you if you plan to do this when I was still at school 597 00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:30,900 in my third year 2016 I was already starting to score my jobs because I knew that within 598 00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:35,540 a year I was going to graduate and if I don't have a job so those were teaching jobs or 599 00:43:35,540 --> 00:43:39,460 those were teaching jobs all teaching jobs okay some of them were performing jobs but 600 00:43:39,460 --> 00:43:44,060 that's like a one-time thing so you perform once you get paid bye bye yeah but the teaching 601 00:43:44,060 --> 00:43:49,180 jobs are more consistent you come every week and then if they like your work you can stay 602 00:43:49,180 --> 00:43:53,300 they offer you more hours like hey I see you teach badly but can you do contemporary can 603 00:43:53,300 --> 00:43:58,480 you do modern and that's kind of how it fell in for me I was in good contact with certain 604 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:03,380 teachers and they were also looking for people who could substitute their classes and that's 605 00:44:03,380 --> 00:44:10,020 kind of how it starts you have to invest a lot in that yeah I think a lot of people underestimate 606 00:44:10,020 --> 00:44:17,460 when they have like a bottle or an event for the alumnus or for the students go to those 607 00:44:17,460 --> 00:44:22,980 because that's potentially where you're going to find your next job yeah and your next network 608 00:44:22,980 --> 00:44:32,420 so by the time I graduated I think I had about six freelance jobs and like two horeca jobs 609 00:44:32,420 --> 00:44:39,340 so it was a lot to juggle a lot a lot eight different jobs yeah every day I had something 610 00:44:39,340 --> 00:44:43,420 else and I had to go from one city to the other and teaching here and teaching there 611 00:44:43,420 --> 00:44:48,980 teaching the next group and you're my friends never saw me because I'm grinding yeah I'm 612 00:44:48,980 --> 00:44:55,820 out there grinding making my every day we have to live my my Jesus my act and and it 613 00:44:55,820 --> 00:44:59,900 was intense at times you know that I would just come home late and I was living with 614 00:44:59,900 --> 00:45:07,420 my housemates and I would be just like you know what sorry for my French but it's just 615 00:45:07,420 --> 00:45:12,940 like what is it worth it is it worth it and I'm kind of like Ava remind yourself why you're 616 00:45:12,940 --> 00:45:19,180 doing this in the first place it's just crazy sometimes and and then you know you're kind 617 00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:24,060 of like okay I'm gonna hold on to this so I have to say it wasn't easy yeah but the 618 00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:30,140 more you the more jobs you get and the more the more you start to realize okay so this 619 00:45:30,140 --> 00:45:34,900 is what I like but this is what I don't like yeah that's important so you can start to 620 00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:40,540 filter the jobs that you like the least because it's something something that I say all the 621 00:45:40,540 --> 00:45:50,540 time is early in your career it's it's it's also best to go a bit broad that you taste 622 00:45:50,540 --> 00:45:57,460 multiple things even during the course of your studies you you you taste multiple aspects 623 00:45:57,460 --> 00:46:04,100 of the thing that you're interested in and after you've tasted then you start to also 624 00:46:04,100 --> 00:46:10,260 realize what you have a taste for yeah what are the things that you notice okay this is 625 00:46:10,260 --> 00:46:14,420 something that I can actually I can handle first of all yeah this is something that I 626 00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:19,260 like yeah and I think I can actually get these students somewhere yeah it's not always about 627 00:46:19,260 --> 00:46:25,260 you and you can grow and and and become an expert in in that in your craft yeah exactly 628 00:46:25,260 --> 00:46:31,340 and so once you go broad then you have to narrow back down exactly that and as I said 629 00:46:31,340 --> 00:46:36,180 I'm always kind of like at the once you start you start to filter the the jobs that you 630 00:46:36,180 --> 00:46:41,300 like the least and then you keep the ones who give you the stability a good income and 631 00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:45,260 the ones that you look forward to to go to because it's not fun when you know that oh 632 00:46:45,260 --> 00:46:51,500 I gotta go to these kids great well it costs you more energy to do that than if you just 633 00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:55,100 go to a job that you're like yeah I picked this job because I know that I'm gonna have 634 00:46:55,100 --> 00:47:00,440 you know my fakes as a teacher yeah kids are gonna learn something and yeah the stability 635 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:05,180 is also quite important yeah and I must say now because now we're 11 years later I graduated 636 00:47:05,180 --> 00:47:09,660 seven years ago now I'm at the point in my career that I'm like yeah I have a pretty 637 00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:15,460 pretty stable income my job is good I know what I have to do as a mentor but also as 638 00:47:15,460 --> 00:47:20,340 a teacher because those are two different things yeah it takes time you have to invest 639 00:47:20,340 --> 00:47:24,940 but it's not impossible yeah and I think that's especially what I want to say anybody can 640 00:47:24,940 --> 00:47:29,060 do it but you have to want to you have to be able to just have that determination and 641 00:47:29,060 --> 00:47:33,100 motivation to be like okay I picked for this and this is what I'm gonna make my life based 642 00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:41,300 off of yeah how did your Caribbean background sort of influence the way that you execute 643 00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:50,380 your work today well no it's good that you ask actually a couple of in May I was part 644 00:47:50,380 --> 00:47:56,380 of this program where they were talking about the linguistic phenomenon of being able to 645 00:47:56,380 --> 00:48:02,140 code switch you know because as Caribbean beings I'm sure you do it too especially now 646 00:48:02,140 --> 00:48:06,460 in the Netherlands now the Dutch comes into the code switching but living on Aruba it 647 00:48:06,460 --> 00:48:14,260 was very much a code switching between Papiamento English Spanish later on came Dutch of course 648 00:48:14,260 --> 00:48:17,700 and why I mentioned this is because I always thought that this was going to be a problem 649 00:48:17,700 --> 00:48:25,860 for me working here because they speak Dutch yeah but now I notice that I actually don't 650 00:48:25,860 --> 00:48:30,180 care anymore and I kind of just go about it I even let my students know like listen your 651 00:48:30,180 --> 00:48:36,740 teacher speaks four languages deal with it as long as the message comes across yeah yeah 652 00:48:36,740 --> 00:48:43,060 but if you still have questions let me know I think that aspect that Caribbean aspect 653 00:48:43,060 --> 00:48:47,060 is the one that definitely also opened a lot of doors for me because I ended up teaching 654 00:48:47,060 --> 00:48:52,620 at a school where they had Spanish kids I can speak Spanish you know or I had a lot 655 00:48:52,620 --> 00:48:57,900 of like Caribbean students who got in touch with me and they were like hey so you heard 656 00:48:57,900 --> 00:49:01,500 that you're busy down there as a dancer but do they speak English down there and I'm like 657 00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:05,460 yeah of course you know and if you're here let me know and then I take you to that place 658 00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:08,740 if you want to and then you know make you feel a little bit more comfortable because 659 00:49:08,740 --> 00:49:12,200 I think a lot of people are kind of like I will make it down here if I don't speak Dutch 660 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:18,220 but that's not totally true yeah because there are enough English institutes here as well 661 00:49:18,220 --> 00:49:23,660 and the Dutch can speak English yeah maybe not fantastic and but they can understand 662 00:49:23,660 --> 00:49:31,420 and I would also say that in general the country has had quite a bit of migration in the past 663 00:49:31,420 --> 00:49:39,740 a couple decades and simultaneously some of the bigger cities I have seen them internationalize 664 00:49:39,740 --> 00:49:49,060 even more like here in Eindhoven for instance so you came in 2013 I came in 20 in 2003 oh 665 00:49:49,060 --> 00:50:01,260 wow okay 2003 10 years before and it the city has completely changed and it's way more international 666 00:50:01,260 --> 00:50:09,460 than it's than it ever was yeah so so that in itself yeah persons don't have to worry 667 00:50:09,460 --> 00:50:15,020 about it as much no but it's still very good for you to be able to learn and speak the 668 00:50:15,020 --> 00:50:22,540 language because it helps with with a lot of different aspects of life absolutely no 669 00:50:22,540 --> 00:50:27,140 but I also think because when you come here you realize okay I can speak Dutch but I just 670 00:50:27,140 --> 00:50:32,700 can't speak the advanced Dutch that they speak here yeah which brings me to my next point 671 00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:37,980 of your question they're like you know being Caribbean how did you like navigate here when 672 00:50:37,980 --> 00:50:47,100 I started habeo I didn't do all of my exams and my essays etc in Dutch I had actually 673 00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:52,980 written to the what you call it the student rat and asked if it would be possible for 674 00:50:52,980 --> 00:50:57,780 me to actually do my work in English but then academic English because I knew I was super 675 00:50:57,780 --> 00:51:03,460 good at that yeah and I can handle that and at first it was kind of like oh we're not 676 00:51:03,460 --> 00:51:08,060 quite sure because the study is of course in Dutch you have to be able to speak Dutch 677 00:51:08,060 --> 00:51:12,740 but luckily my teachers were like no it's okay let her do it and if we and if we see 678 00:51:12,740 --> 00:51:17,060 that that it goes better and you're willing to try out in Dutch then we'll try it in Dutch 679 00:51:17,060 --> 00:51:23,020 yeah so I really much appreciated that because I didn't want to I mean you don't want to 680 00:51:23,020 --> 00:51:28,060 come across over as I can't speak Dutch I can but you have to give me the time to land 681 00:51:28,060 --> 00:51:32,660 in the level of Dutch that you speak because everything that we read was all in academic 682 00:51:32,660 --> 00:51:36,060 Dutch and I understood everything but I also knew that it was going to take me some time 683 00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:42,420 to just be able to even get it out of my system yeah writing wise yeah so I was very happy 684 00:51:42,420 --> 00:51:48,840 that at first I could just like okay let me settle into this Dutch cocoon but let me do 685 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,660 it in English first and they were totally okay with that which I could appreciate but 686 00:51:52,660 --> 00:52:02,300 that that in itself is it shows what's the word I'm looking for flexibility flexibility 687 00:52:02,300 --> 00:52:09,940 yeah yeah you know that I couldn't I just lost the word and then the only thing that 688 00:52:09,940 --> 00:52:20,020 came to mind was cojones well it I mean it took it took it took some courage maybe courage 689 00:52:20,020 --> 00:52:27,460 is then the the the PG version of that some balls it took some balls to to to to go to 690 00:52:27,460 --> 00:52:32,260 the school board and say hey I I'm willing to do everything I just want to do it in a 691 00:52:32,260 --> 00:52:39,140 different language and and it's a language that all of you can also understand and speak 692 00:52:39,140 --> 00:52:45,180 that's pretty cool that's pretty cool I mean I think if you if you want me to thrive in 693 00:52:45,180 --> 00:52:51,700 your system yeah in your school system I'm willing and I know I can but it's just going 694 00:52:51,700 --> 00:52:55,380 to have to take a little bit of adjusting but at the end I think my teachers also could 695 00:52:55,380 --> 00:52:59,060 see like ah okay I understand why you want to do it in academic English because it's 696 00:52:59,060 --> 00:53:03,660 kind of like your second language you're asking me to speak an academic type of language that 697 00:53:03,660 --> 00:53:08,980 comes to me very foreignly yeah yeah it's my fourth yeah you know and if you know a 698 00:53:08,980 --> 00:53:13,700 little bit of like the colonization I'm not even supposed to speak that language but I 699 00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:18,540 do yeah so I'm willing to I'm willing to adjust to your system but then if you're willing 700 00:53:18,540 --> 00:53:22,580 to be a little bit more flexible towards me who's a newcomer in your country yeah that 701 00:53:22,580 --> 00:53:26,740 would be fantastic and I'm happy that they could do it because at the end I must say 702 00:53:26,740 --> 00:53:31,220 I got rather pretty good grades you know I think as the message comes across we should 703 00:53:31,220 --> 00:53:39,620 be fine yeah it is it is really kind of interesting and funny because I had a similar experience 704 00:53:39,620 --> 00:53:48,180 really it wasn't throughout my school but for my final internship my report I requested 705 00:53:48,180 --> 00:53:53,380 if I could write it in English okay and I eventually got the approval and because I 706 00:53:53,380 --> 00:53:59,220 could write it in English and then like I really felt like I could shine yeah and and 707 00:53:59,220 --> 00:54:05,780 in the end I got like eight and a half and and and a very good review etc but I know 708 00:54:05,780 --> 00:54:09,460 that that would have probably been different if I had to write the whole thing in Dutch 709 00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:16,780 of course because it wouldn't feel as natural even though I'm capable of but but the execution 710 00:54:16,780 --> 00:54:21,500 of it it wouldn't have that it wouldn't have that extra spark yeah that you know that you 711 00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:31,620 have in you so you you mentioned or or more earlier when we were talking off camera about 712 00:54:31,620 --> 00:54:39,180 the podcast so how did that came to be well my friend Gionna Chutope she had an idea a 713 00:54:39,180 --> 00:54:45,560 couple of years back and she called me random I was in the subway I think I just came from 714 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:50,540 work or something and she's like yeah listen I really want to create this podcast where 715 00:54:50,540 --> 00:55:01,860 we can talk about the challenges and the many unseen and untalked about emotions that you 716 00:55:01,860 --> 00:55:08,020 feel as a Caribbean being living in Holland oh whoa those are really interesting topics 717 00:55:08,020 --> 00:55:12,580 like yeah I want to do it with you how do you feel about it I was like yeah of course 718 00:55:12,580 --> 00:55:16,340 Gionna is somebody who I've known since I was three years old you know from the band 719 00:55:16,340 --> 00:55:23,380 school no oh Clutter we went to the same Clutter school yeah and we lost touch for some time 720 00:55:23,380 --> 00:55:27,180 and then came across each other again and yeah we've been really good friends since 721 00:55:27,180 --> 00:55:34,440 and yeah she created it and I co-hosted with her and we're now two seasons in nice and 722 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,260 as I said it's a it's basically a podcast that's surrounded around the stories of people 723 00:55:38,260 --> 00:55:43,020 who immigrate to the Netherlands but also kind of juggle that in between life as I told 724 00:55:43,020 --> 00:55:47,380 you you know yeah going home and coming back to the Netherlands what you actually also 725 00:55:47,380 --> 00:55:52,700 sort of call your own home because you're building your life here yeah and navigating 726 00:55:52,700 --> 00:55:57,740 that area I don't want to call it the gray area because it's not gray it's very much 727 00:55:57,740 --> 00:56:05,580 real it's it's it's it's very colorful it's like a blended of all these colors that yeah 728 00:56:05,580 --> 00:56:10,940 and the gray is there but it's a different another like silvery shade of gray yeah you 729 00:56:10,940 --> 00:56:16,900 know what I mean it shines the silver lining gray yeah it's very much polished and yeah 730 00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:22,660 I live in that I live in that area and so do many of us yeah and so the podcast is actually 731 00:56:22,660 --> 00:56:26,220 surrounded around those type of stories and people who also come from the Caribbean and 732 00:56:26,220 --> 00:56:30,460 it doesn't have to per se be from Aruba, Bonaire, or Curaçao or the Bursalen as I said but 733 00:56:30,460 --> 00:56:34,300 we also interviewed people who for example come from Jamaica people who come from St. 734 00:56:34,300 --> 00:56:43,540 Marcia's people come from St. Martin who have similar feelings and similar yeah information 735 00:56:43,540 --> 00:56:48,220 and indeed the challenges that they also have to go through to be able to just settle here 736 00:56:48,220 --> 00:56:53,340 and find your way and yeah what does that mean and what does it mean for me to go home 737 00:56:53,340 --> 00:56:57,620 what is home does home even feel like home for me anymore or is it yeah you know all 738 00:56:57,620 --> 00:57:01,820 of those questions come about in the podcast and I'm really proud of it to be honest because 739 00:57:01,820 --> 00:57:06,780 we've heard such wonderful stories from people who I'm like wow you could be older than me 740 00:57:06,780 --> 00:57:11,700 but there's so much that I can relate to you know even Suriname yeah or people who come 741 00:57:11,700 --> 00:57:16,460 from Panama all of these people and it already comes to show you how many nationalities that 742 00:57:16,460 --> 00:57:25,020 are that live here yeah you know Caribbean or even like Latin America it's all very it 743 00:57:25,020 --> 00:57:35,420 makes you feel less alone hmm yeah so there's also the performing aspect touring could you 744 00:57:35,420 --> 00:57:42,140 unpack that a bit for us touring I've toured once and I'm very lucky to say that I have 745 00:57:42,140 --> 00:57:47,540 toured by the way because it's a cool thing to do so at school my academy time I had this 746 00:57:47,540 --> 00:57:58,380 teacher and she was looking for somebody who would be able to substitute her ballet classes 747 00:57:58,380 --> 00:58:01,820 okay and she and I we build up a really good professional relationship with each other 748 00:58:01,820 --> 00:58:06,500 and in the end she also introduced me to her sister who is also a professional dancer and 749 00:58:06,500 --> 00:58:14,740 they wanted to tour with a production that was about frau a handle okay yeah the trafficking 750 00:58:14,740 --> 00:58:21,740 of women yeah which also by the way a lot of dancers end up in that in this industry 751 00:58:21,740 --> 00:58:26,980 as well I have to call it an industry because you know it is what it is and so with my teacher 752 00:58:26,980 --> 00:58:33,160 at the time and her sister and I think it was also like two musicians and and a music 753 00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:40,660 producer and all that we had like a group of like five five dancers and she was like 754 00:58:40,660 --> 00:58:45,060 yeah a lot of two in a lot of theaters in Germany are looking to have to have us do 755 00:58:45,060 --> 00:58:54,740 you want to come and I'm like me sure so we started off in Mannheim then we went to Frankfurt 756 00:58:54,740 --> 00:59:00,060 and then a little bit of other cities that are outside of Germany as well and Berlin 757 00:59:00,060 --> 00:59:06,820 and Germany is huge Germany is huge but yeah it was interesting because as a dancer then 758 00:59:06,820 --> 00:59:10,980 you you learn like okay what does it feel like to tour you know you're exhausted you 759 00:59:10,980 --> 00:59:15,900 go from city to city sometimes you have to perform two three times a day yeah and every 760 00:59:15,900 --> 00:59:21,060 performance feels different because of the energy level in your body too and the audience 761 00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:25,500 that you have in front of you and I mean it's about frau a handle this it's quite an intense 762 00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:31,260 topic too so how are how are the German audience gonna take this you know is it gonna be positive 763 00:59:31,260 --> 00:59:34,900 is it gonna make an impact or it's gonna be like oh this is the shittiest thing I've 764 00:59:34,900 --> 00:59:39,660 ever seen it really depends on who you have in front of you but touring as a dancer is 765 00:59:39,660 --> 00:59:46,780 fun and it's very interesting it's very learned there's a lot of learning lessons there but 766 00:59:46,780 --> 00:59:51,780 I think the thing that I loved the most was being able to learn from the the people that 767 00:59:51,780 --> 00:59:54,820 I could work with at the time because they were already so much more experienced than 768 00:59:54,820 --> 00:59:58,220 I was my teacher and her sister at the time they were just one of the best dancers that 769 00:59:58,220 --> 01:00:04,740 I ever seen so it was so cool to even be a part of that yeah and the and this was why 770 01:00:04,740 --> 01:00:12,460 you were in university yeah this was in 2016 just running up my third year and then we 771 01:00:12,460 --> 01:00:18,460 tour for like two months and it was brilliant and I'm very grateful to be having to be 772 01:00:18,460 --> 01:00:22,060 able to have done that because I know that touring for dancers is like oh my god if you 773 01:00:22,060 --> 01:00:26,180 get to tour with an artist that would be so cool and this wasn't per se like I we didn't 774 01:00:26,180 --> 01:00:31,660 tour with Chris Brown no but this was something meaningful and something important and an 775 01:00:31,660 --> 01:00:36,740 important subject and you got to stand on different stages and I think as a dancer that's 776 01:00:36,740 --> 01:00:41,340 a that's a very nice accomplishment yeah you know so that's kind of how it basically happened 777 01:00:41,340 --> 01:00:46,580 again network connections it's all about who you know and it's super important because 778 01:00:46,580 --> 01:00:54,660 you mentioned it earlier that you there were so many people with different walks from different 779 01:00:54,660 --> 01:01:01,980 walks of life so from different ethnicities backgrounds etc and and and you also went 780 01:01:01,980 --> 01:01:08,020 out of your comfort zone many times to connect with these people and and build up that network 781 01:01:08,020 --> 01:01:14,700 is something that I always try to encourage students to do because from the Caribbean 782 01:01:14,700 --> 01:01:21,500 we we we also tend to sort of stay within the little cocoon of the Caribbean network 783 01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:27,580 in that comfortability yeah but there's so much more for us to experience and see if 784 01:01:27,580 --> 01:01:35,660 we step a bit more out of that comfort zone every now and then epic only happens outside 785 01:01:35,660 --> 01:01:42,420 of the comfort zone absolutely I and yeah I got to say even it because I'm 32 there 786 01:01:42,420 --> 01:01:48,700 was a time that I was like okay is dancing still something for me and then I realized 787 01:01:48,700 --> 01:01:53,420 you have just been doing the same thing for a long time you need to switch it up a little 788 01:01:53,420 --> 01:02:00,580 bit for yourself yeah so you can imagine for like I don't know since I was three 29 years 789 01:02:00,580 --> 01:02:06,020 yeah this ballerina girl yeah because I started really as a ballet girl on her pointe shoes 790 01:02:06,020 --> 01:02:10,660 you know this ballerina girl has been doing the same thing for so long it's about time 791 01:02:10,660 --> 01:02:16,380 you learn new styles yeah you know and I have to say that this past season I've done now 792 01:02:16,380 --> 01:02:24,620 hip hop classes dance hall classes and heels dance hall and heels okay no not dance hall 793 01:02:24,620 --> 01:02:31,820 in heels dance hall and heels so heels classes okay okay heels classes so there's dancing 794 01:02:31,820 --> 01:02:40,060 heels classes but then what are you dancing well it's quite sexy I mean what type of music 795 01:02:40,060 --> 01:02:47,060 um well our teacher is very much into like those rmb type of tracks okay um for like 796 01:02:47,060 --> 01:02:50,580 we had an end of the year showcase and we danced on dirty from Cristina Aguilera I don't 797 01:02:50,580 --> 01:02:57,540 know if that song is familiar to you yeah yeah yeah I mean I am that old I am that old 798 01:02:57,540 --> 01:03:03,620 and that features red man yeah that's it red man that's it so we danced a whole choreography 799 01:03:03,620 --> 01:03:09,140 on heels on that track oh my god and that's not something that I would usually do yeah 800 01:03:09,140 --> 01:03:12,900 but I also realized that it has to do with like I don't know I don't know if you have 801 01:03:12,900 --> 01:03:18,460 this but you get to a certain age and you're kind of like fuck it true I'm gonna do it 802 01:03:18,460 --> 01:03:21,780 true I might look ridiculous but this is me getting out of my comfort zone because it's 803 01:03:21,780 --> 01:03:27,660 not supposed to feel comfortable no you know when it gets too comfortable switch it up 804 01:03:27,660 --> 01:03:32,280 you're already dying yeah switch it up so you need to switch it up to uh to bring that 805 01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:39,180 spark again exactly and um so we had that showcase and I was I was on stage and I got 806 01:03:39,180 --> 01:03:47,460 off of that stage and I was like you did that dirty in my heels you did that and I have 807 01:03:47,460 --> 01:03:52,340 to say since then it's gotten more interesting okay nice you know it's gotten more interesting 808 01:03:52,340 --> 01:03:56,860 that I don't ask myself like okay is this still for me yeah so you found you found a 809 01:03:56,860 --> 01:04:07,020 new spark to to breed new life into it absolutely yeah and this is a classical question that 810 01:04:07,020 --> 01:04:11,900 I asked but I almost feel like the advice has already sort of been wrapped up in in 811 01:04:11,900 --> 01:04:19,460 all that we spoken about but if you would look into the crystal ball back to the 18 812 01:04:19,460 --> 01:04:26,500 year old Ava what advice would you give her you're gonna be okay you're gonna be very 813 01:04:26,500 --> 01:04:34,300 happy it's you're gonna be very happy you're gonna be you have to push through so was she 814 01:04:34,300 --> 01:04:40,620 a bit insecure about being happy I think 18 year old me didn't quite know what it meant 815 01:04:40,620 --> 01:04:48,820 to be happy yeah you know I have to say generally I'm a very optimistic person and quite jolly 816 01:04:48,820 --> 01:04:54,380 you know I'm not really uh I don't want to I don't want ever to people to look at me 817 01:04:54,380 --> 01:05:03,860 and be like she has a bad aura I don't want that and I think that at 18 I was still very 818 01:05:03,860 --> 01:05:10,660 much angry and not quite sure what I want and yeah as I said very stubborn and and 819 01:05:10,660 --> 01:05:16,740 I have eyes and oh you know looking back at myself I'm kind of like oh loosen up man so 820 01:05:16,740 --> 01:05:20,620 I kind of want to tell my 18 year old self you're gonna be fine you're gonna be fine 821 01:05:20,620 --> 01:05:24,380 you're gonna make it you're gonna make it happen you're gonna find your way and you're 822 01:05:24,380 --> 01:05:30,420 gonna find people on that way that are also gonna push you to push to push through and 823 01:05:30,420 --> 01:05:38,500 keep pushing yourself and good friends nice partner yeah I can't complain now at my 32 824 01:05:38,500 --> 01:05:44,820 I'm like yeah it's it's solid it's solid and it's not impossible what what made 18 year 825 01:05:44,820 --> 01:05:51,740 old you a bit angry if we if we unpack maybe some aspects of your childhood growing up 826 01:05:51,740 --> 01:06:05,620 in Aruba um I think it has to do with my sense of freedom because I felt a little trapped 827 01:06:05,620 --> 01:06:11,140 down there you know a lot of friends yeah a lot of my friends at the time had already 828 01:06:11,140 --> 01:06:17,100 moved to Holland yeah my cousin specifically so I kind of felt like oh so you get to have 829 01:06:17,100 --> 01:06:22,460 your freedom you know oh you don't have to live with your parents anymore yeah oh you 830 01:06:22,460 --> 01:06:28,020 get to do this you get to do that and I kind of felt like I didn't have that while I did 831 01:06:28,020 --> 01:06:34,100 it was just in another form yeah but you're you're so fixed on your own because as a teenager 832 01:06:34,100 --> 01:06:38,340 you're so like this you don't look you don't open your eyes you're so focused on yourself 833 01:06:38,340 --> 01:06:44,860 you're I kind of felt like as a teenager I was pretty egoistic and I'm an only kid so 834 01:06:44,860 --> 01:06:49,500 obviously it's not like I was very much used to having more people around me and sharing 835 01:06:49,500 --> 01:06:53,660 you know and now I'm kind of like please take it you know kind of like healing that part 836 01:06:53,660 --> 01:07:00,500 of me now I think I was just very much I felt trapped and I felt like oh great I have to 837 01:07:00,500 --> 01:07:04,860 stay here in Aruba and I'm gonna have to do a study that I don't like and I'm gonna have 838 01:07:04,860 --> 01:07:10,900 to build a life that I don't like because I've always been motivated by the fear of 839 01:07:10,900 --> 01:07:17,860 being average why didn't you move at 18 and to come here I didn't move at 18 because well 840 01:07:17,860 --> 01:07:25,060 first I did half oh first of all and my last my exam year I had to do twice okay and somehow 841 01:07:25,060 --> 01:07:30,940 I was like okay am I ready to go no not just yet so I did very oh okay didn't finish that 842 01:07:30,940 --> 01:07:37,380 that's fine okay um but I did go to work yeah and I'm happy that I did that because I needed 843 01:07:37,380 --> 01:07:42,180 that I gave me a sense of independency that I could go to work and I could earn my own 844 01:07:42,180 --> 01:07:46,260 money which also gave me that type of freedom which I was very much craving yeah yeah so 845 01:07:46,260 --> 01:07:49,860 if I were to go out I would never have to ask my mother for my money I had my own you 846 01:07:49,860 --> 01:07:56,020 know I always told myself don't stick around for too long don't get too comfortable no 847 01:07:56,020 --> 01:08:00,300 exactly don't stick around for too long because I'm somebody who needs a lot of variety and 848 01:08:00,300 --> 01:08:07,980 I was like if I stay here then I'm gonna stay here like the rest of these people oh no so 849 01:08:07,980 --> 01:08:13,340 I stay there for like a year or two yeah 2012 I came here to do an audition to be able to 850 01:08:13,340 --> 01:08:16,740 study at the dance academy but at the time I didn't get in but I was also not really 851 01:08:16,740 --> 01:08:20,540 prepared for it so I kind of feel like the universe protected me at the time yeah but 852 01:08:20,540 --> 01:08:26,740 I really wanted it I really wanted to dance I just wanted to make that part of my life 853 01:08:26,740 --> 01:08:30,780 come true yeah and then at the time I had nothing to do with freedom but it also had 854 01:08:30,780 --> 01:08:36,740 to do with the fact that yeah and Aruba it's not normalized to study art yeah it's very 855 01:08:36,740 --> 01:08:40,420 much seen as an over glorified hobby and I'm kind of like well it's not a hobby for me 856 01:08:40,420 --> 01:08:48,500 folks so bye bye and then in 2000 yeah and in 2013 I came again and I stayed a little 857 01:08:48,500 --> 01:08:52,200 longer so that I could audition at all of the academies so if I couldn't get into one 858 01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:56,300 I could maybe have the other as a backup so you came with a with a better plan with a 859 01:08:56,300 --> 01:09:00,780 better plan I was more prepared I had better training I had just come back from New York 860 01:09:00,780 --> 01:09:06,140 as well so my you can't say that I hadn't been in any case active with my body you know 861 01:09:06,140 --> 01:09:11,340 because in 2012 you weren't that active you were more I think I kind of just saw it as 862 01:09:11,340 --> 01:09:16,460 like oh I'm gonna get in it's fine yeah but it wasn't that way at all the reality slap 863 01:09:16,460 --> 01:09:21,900 so exactly that and then in 2013 when I came I auditioned at all of the schools and I got 864 01:09:21,900 --> 01:09:26,860 accepted at all of them so I could pick whichever one I wanted and Amsterdam had my heart at 865 01:09:26,860 --> 01:09:31,940 the first instance already yeah so that's where I ended up and then I was like here's 866 01:09:31,940 --> 01:09:38,780 my freedom nice so we we we we touched on the present we touched on the past we touched 867 01:09:38,780 --> 01:09:46,220 on all aspects of the journey the mentors the person that played these vital roles even 868 01:09:46,220 --> 01:09:51,460 touching on the fact that now you're able to play this vital role in the life of others 869 01:09:51,460 --> 01:09:58,900 what's what's the future looking like what are some of the long-term goals that you may 870 01:09:58,900 --> 01:10:06,980 want to share with folks for well well your company but also within teaching what what 871 01:10:06,980 --> 01:10:17,260 are some of the things that you see that you want to get into well I'm 32 now and I have 872 01:10:17,260 --> 01:10:22,300 to say I'm still very much looking for that challenge you know as I said I'm taking other 873 01:10:22,300 --> 01:10:27,820 dance classes now so that does me well bringing me also in a totally different network opportunity 874 01:10:27,820 --> 01:10:34,300 once more so I'm loving that and I definitely think I can professionally dance until my 875 01:10:34,300 --> 01:10:41,100 if this body keeps it up I think 40 for sure yeah but I do I am looking for a career switch 876 01:10:41,100 --> 01:10:48,380 I won't lie okay so while dance has my heart theater and acting also has my heart and so 877 01:10:48,380 --> 01:10:57,340 I'm trying to navigate how I can get into that industry so I'd say in the long term 878 01:10:57,340 --> 01:11:01,260 I still see myself dancing I still see myself teaching as I said if you can teach that's 879 01:11:01,260 --> 01:11:07,580 already a pretty good skill to have because you teach anywhere but I also very much look 880 01:11:07,580 --> 01:11:13,820 forward to maybe stepping into something new like like what I said the acting and yeah 881 01:11:13,820 --> 01:11:17,860 I'm somebody who likes to be in front of a camera but I also love to be behind the camera 882 01:11:17,860 --> 01:11:25,580 I learn a lot yeah from directors and also other creators who for example want to do 883 01:11:25,580 --> 01:11:28,860 a creative project and then they're looking for people who are willing to help I'm the 884 01:11:28,860 --> 01:11:33,340 first person to put my hand up because I'm so interested I want to know I want to learn 885 01:11:33,340 --> 01:11:39,900 I'm very in that sense I'm very much a Sagittarius you know Sagittarius in me is so craving for 886 01:11:39,900 --> 01:11:44,820 knowledge and new skills yeah so I can also do it myself but maybe even pass it on to 887 01:11:44,820 --> 01:11:53,420 someone else yeah yeah I see myself doing that in a couple of years and also about being 888 01:11:53,420 --> 01:12:01,100 a obviously a Caribbean person and and have gone through this trajectory spent time in 889 01:12:01,100 --> 01:12:10,380 the states here in Europe what what would you want to see for persons coming from small 890 01:12:10,380 --> 01:12:16,620 islands pursuing these passions what what advice would you give or what would you want 891 01:12:16,620 --> 01:12:22,820 to see sort of change for them for the better well first I think it would just be really 892 01:12:22,820 --> 01:12:31,220 nice if if you're if you're a parent and you see that your child has a knack for something 893 01:12:31,220 --> 01:12:40,500 let's say that's dance or music or acting or anything that's in that creative expression 894 01:12:40,500 --> 01:12:48,460 industry please please encourage your child to also do something with that yeah because 895 01:12:48,460 --> 01:12:54,140 it's important I don't know if I would have been as happy in my life if I had picked something 896 01:12:54,140 --> 01:13:01,100 else I actually even can't imagine it to be honest because I'm so deep into the deep into 897 01:13:01,100 --> 01:13:07,220 that industry of dance that is just who I am but I want to say if you're gonna come 898 01:13:07,220 --> 01:13:10,660 here in the Netherlands or wherever you end up going you could also go to the USA or wherever 899 01:13:10,660 --> 01:13:15,260 it is that you see yourself settling hey because you can do that anywhere in the world as long 900 01:13:15,260 --> 01:13:24,140 as as long as you have what you need make sure that you really believe in your craft 901 01:13:24,140 --> 01:13:29,100 because that's what's going to make you the artist in the future yeah we're looking well 902 01:13:29,100 --> 01:13:35,980 we're as if it's me and my people but what I would then personally look for is individualism 903 01:13:35,980 --> 01:13:42,540 and so my advice would be to really know who you are bring out the core of your being forward 904 01:13:42,540 --> 01:13:47,140 because that's what that's what the industry needs yeah the industry is not looking for 905 01:13:47,140 --> 01:13:52,340 people who look the same the industry is is actually looking for people who has who have 906 01:13:52,340 --> 01:13:57,420 something special something unique something that they haven't seen before yeah and we're 907 01:13:57,420 --> 01:14:01,980 all very individual dancers if we talk about dance in this case we're very individual dancers 908 01:14:01,980 --> 01:14:06,980 we don't move the same we don't look the same we don't express ourselves the same we also 909 01:14:06,980 --> 01:14:12,060 don't obtain information the same and that's what makes it so interesting in the art form 910 01:14:12,060 --> 01:14:17,460 yeah it's individualism so bring your individualism don't change yourself just because you want 911 01:14:17,460 --> 01:14:21,460 to make it somewhere because then that place is not for you true that place is so not for 912 01:14:21,460 --> 01:14:26,580 you you want to be in a place where you can actually thrive being yourself while also 913 01:14:26,580 --> 01:14:32,700 growing and learning new things to make you as an artist and your identity be even more 914 01:14:32,700 --> 01:14:37,020 broad and more horizons and I think a lot of people just have a whole different perspective 915 01:14:37,020 --> 01:14:41,100 like oh if I if I look like her if I look like him and I do it like them that's what's 916 01:14:41,100 --> 01:14:47,700 gonna get me forward no do it like you yeah because that's what I'm interested in awesome 917 01:14:47,700 --> 01:15:00,580 Miss Ava tell me thank you very much thank you I definitely enjoyed this energetic conversation 918 01:15:00,580 --> 01:15:04,980 thanks for coming and meeting us all the way down in the south you guys are cool I want 919 01:15:04,980 --> 01:15:10,580 to do it more often actually yeah you guys are cool I like Claire she's next to me y'all 920 01:15:10,580 --> 01:15:20,020 can't see her but she's she's a baddie and John John looks like an Arubian oh shit he's 921 01:15:20,020 --> 01:15:25,580 got Martin they claiming me I mean you're part of Rubin though because you're with Claire 922 01:15:25,580 --> 01:15:31,300 yeah yeah yeah so I have two Arubian kids and and as I said my mom was born in Aruba 923 01:15:31,300 --> 01:15:37,900 so there is that connection there and he has nice light eyes like you don't see that often 924 01:15:37,900 --> 01:15:42,860 so that's the first thing I said to Claire like hey is he a Rubin she's like no he's 925 01:15:42,860 --> 01:15:52,300 from St. Martin I'm like oh he's got light eyes oh my god so yeah girls watch it he 926 01:15:52,300 --> 01:15:59,620 married that he married with children no I'm joking no but thank you I had fun it was 927 01:15:59,620 --> 01:16:07,540 good it's a really really cool platform thank you thank you very much so guys I'll see you 928 01:16:07,540 --> 01:16:14,740 in the next one don't forget to like subscribe place comments if I forgot to ask any particular 929 01:16:14,740 --> 01:16:24,700 special questions let me know share this with with all of your peoples Aruba St. Martin Suriname 930 01:16:24,700 --> 01:16:31,940 Netherlands everywhere or I even forgot to ask Ava where can they find you I have to 931 01:16:31,940 --> 01:16:38,860 say I'm not too active on socials it's just better for your mental state of mind true 932 01:16:38,860 --> 01:16:43,900 true please live in the live in the present in the real world but if you want to follow 933 01:16:43,900 --> 01:16:53,660 me you can find me on Instagram a phone a for cruise xx cruise with a C by the way I'm 934 01:16:53,660 --> 01:16:59,660 on Facebook and all honesty I only keep my Facebook open for the Arubian news I just 935 01:16:59,660 --> 01:17:05,300 want to know that everything is okay yeah yeah and yeah I'm on TikTok too but TikTok 936 01:17:05,300 --> 01:17:10,940 is more for the fun of it and so yeah I'd say if you really want to get in touch with 937 01:17:10,940 --> 01:17:18,380 me just email me okay and you can email me at Eva m a cruise at gmail.com thank you once 938 01:17:18,380 --> 01:17:46,020 again and I'll see you guys in the next one peace