1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,880 So I started rewriting, I created a pilot, I created a DVD and I sent the DVD over to RTL. 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,200 I thought, oh, you know, we can maybe I can produce a series for them. 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,600 And remind you, I was still working at Nike all this time. 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:18,400 And all of a sudden, RTL invited me to come and talk about it. 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,360 I know that was my reaction. 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:21,360 I was like, really? 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,440 So I was sitting there at the table discussing this project and I was working at Nike. 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:27,760 So I was not a producer. 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:29,800 I was a writer, but I was sitting at that table. 10 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:30,800 Yeah. 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,200 But then making TV drama is very expensive. 12 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,440 So they said to me, Chenine, what do you think of the idea of making a movie out of his 13 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:42,120 first? They said to me, Chenine, you need to find a producer for this. 14 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:47,800 And then I knocked on the door of the producer and he said, oh, yes, we'd love to. 15 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:52,240 So that is the producer who produced the movie Alles voor elkaar, which is now still on 16 00:00:52,240 --> 00:01:00,160 Netflix. And that was the start of kind of that journey of being in TV and film industry. 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,160 People. 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,600 Good day, good afternoon and good evening, wherever you're connecting from in this 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:09,920 beautiful, wonderful world. 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:11,480 Thank you for tuning in. 21 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:17,000 Welcome to another episode of Sunside Kingdom Show, the place where we highlight 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:23,520 individuals, role models and true leaders in what they have accomplished in their 23 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,760 career. Halen from the Dutch Caribbean. 24 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,440 We're going to get into a very special episode today. 25 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:35,240 I have with me and I'm going to here look at my notes because there's so much that I 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,120 have to mention about this individual. 27 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:44,440 So today we're honored to have with us Chenine Lebrun, Lebrun, yes, a resilient leader 28 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:50,440 from Amsterdam with roots in Suriname, whose journey at Nike led her to become the 29 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:55,120 EMEA for those that don't know, EMEA, that's corporate talk for Europe, Middle East and 30 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,800 Africa marketplace director for over 18 years. 31 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:07,160 In 2021, Chenine left Nike to start her own company called Hustle and Heart Consultancy. 32 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,400 Now she helps other big companies like ABN Amarillo, Pricewaterhouse, Cooper's find and 33 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:21,520 develop talent from all different backgrounds, recognized in the future 150, as well as 34 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:26,560 reaching recently featured on TEDx Amsterdam Women in 2023. 35 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:29,080 And I just heard that we. 36 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,720 Well, as we record in this, it's a premiere, but when you're seeing it is probably not. 37 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:41,560 But she's also been selected as one of the 2024 MT Sprout inclusive 30. 38 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:48,160 Powerhouse of a lady, multifaceted individual, mother, career woman, mentor, entrepreneur, 39 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,320 speaker, TV and film producer. 40 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,080 There's so much we got to get into. 41 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:05,520 Welcome, Chenine. 42 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,360 Thank you. I'm impressed with here and all that. 43 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,960 And don't even realize that you're talking about me. 44 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,960 But you are. Yes, yes, I am. 45 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,320 Yeah. Thank you for having me. 46 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,200 Thank you for coming here. 47 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,680 Yeah, we're based down in the south in Eindhoven. 48 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,440 And I know many times they say both of the river above the rivers. 49 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:31,200 We don't really leave the Randstad, but you made the journey down here. 50 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,240 So we thank you very, very much for that. 51 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,480 Yes, it was a drive, but I'm here. 52 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:37,240 Welcome, welcome. 53 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:42,880 Welcome, welcome. So let's let's dive into into the current state. 54 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,120 Who is Chenine LeBrun in 2024? 55 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:55,320 Oh, yeah. So she's a pretty relaxed, confident woman who knows what she wants, 56 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,120 is following her dreams and is living life. 57 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,520 Nice. Yeah. And for and foremost is being a mother. 58 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:06,440 For and foremost, being a mom. 59 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:16,720 So in 2021, you left the regular corporate life behind and entered a completely new journey. 60 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,600 Yeah. Well, what has that journey been like for you in the past three years? 61 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:26,120 Oh, yes, I've been in that corporate environment for over 18 years. 62 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,360 So leaving that was quite a huge decision. 63 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,280 It took me a while to take it. 64 00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:38,680 Yeah. But the last three years have been such a journey of exploring and not knowing, 65 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,480 but just going with the flow. 66 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,480 Yeah. I didn't have a lot of entrepreneurial friends or family members. 67 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,720 So I didn't know, you know, the how to. 68 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:54,600 Yeah. So I've been just learning and making mistakes, but just going with it. 69 00:04:54,600 --> 00:05:00,600 So I have to say that's been a journey of growing and learning and. 70 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:03,880 Yeah. And just experiencing. 71 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:10,520 Yeah. And so it is quite interesting when I think about it, 72 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:19,800 that you've had 18 years of a career in corporate, now three years as being an entrepreneur. 73 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:25,400 And you're describing it as as being very new, fresh and exciting and also 74 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:33,120 maybe a bit scary at times that, yeah, leave leaving what you know behind 75 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,320 and start in this brand new journey. 76 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:44,360 So what would you say were some of the key lessons that that you could apply 77 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,680 in the last three years that you learned during your 18 year tenure? 78 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:54,920 Oh, yeah. So I always say that my 18 year corporate career was kind of a school, 79 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,880 an education that was education for becoming an entrepreneur. 80 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,320 Yeah. And especially at that level. 81 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:04,600 So I used to work for Nike and being at that level of, you know, EMEA, being a director, 82 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,760 having a team, being in a working for a company that is all about storytelling 83 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,920 and how do you present yourself. 84 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,280 I learned so much. 85 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:18,880 So I really learned also about networking within the corporate environment, 86 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,840 which I totally use now as an entrepreneur. 87 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:26,800 I think it's without managing that skill of networking, it's really difficult 88 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,840 to really be successful as an entrepreneur. 89 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:34,160 But also the way of how you tell your story and how you show up. 90 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,240 I also learned that at Nike and I am applying that also as an entrepreneur. 91 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,200 I think it's very difficult if you're an entrepreneur, 92 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,240 but you don't want to share your story, you want to be visible. 93 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:47,840 So that's definitely what I learned there. 94 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,560 And what else would I say? 95 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,120 I think definitely the Just Do It mentality. 96 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,320 So, I mean, this brand is all about just do it and as an entrepreneur, 97 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:03,120 but just I think general in life, you can think about you can think a lot about things, 98 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,160 you can strategize, you can plan, but without taking the steps, nothing is happening. 99 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:14,080 So that idea of OK to fail or that idea of let's do it and see where it goes. 100 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:14,560 Yeah. 101 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,080 Took that right with me into entrepreneurial life. 102 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:18,640 Wow. 103 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,640 That's like a nice, strong, brief summary. 104 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:23,120 Yeah. 105 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:32,400 So the lessons in there, the Just Do It mentality, that was one. 106 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:33,680 Networking. 107 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:34,720 The networking. 108 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:42,240 Networking is something that I've also preached throughout my career as being the blood of business. 109 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:48,000 Without networking, there's no business that can truly grow, 110 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,640 whether it's finding clients or whether it's finding the right suppliers. 111 00:07:54,160 --> 00:08:00,640 Even, yeah, you even use your network to find people that you can hire that become part of your team. 112 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,360 So yeah, that's one that I can definitely double stamp as. 113 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:11,520 And some find networking as like a dirty word or I'm afraid to network or, oh, you know, how do you do it? 114 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,080 But for me, it's just you can do it in so many ways. 115 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,840 It's just checking in on somebody. 116 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,120 It's reaching out to saying, hey, you're doing a great job. 117 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,760 It's celebrating or saying happy birthday to somebody. 118 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,600 It's finding business. 119 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,240 It comes in so many ways. 120 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,320 And if you find a way that works for you so that you can just stay yourself, 121 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,600 because what people also don't realize is that I'm an introvert. 122 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,520 A lot of people don't believe me, but I am an introvert. 123 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,480 I really take my energy from just being alone. 124 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:42,960 Yeah. 125 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,920 So knowing that in a corporate environment was difficult, 126 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,200 but also knowing that and still knowing the importance of networking 127 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,280 and finding your way in doing that authentically is really important. 128 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:58,320 So then you learned how to become an extroverted introvert. 129 00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:59,120 Indeed. 130 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,480 Turn on the extrovertness when need be. 131 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:03,040 Yeah. 132 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:09,120 But also knowing that you need your alone time and your own space to retract. 133 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:09,840 Yes. 134 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:10,400 Yeah. 135 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:18,320 It's a pretty interesting concept because I've actually, I believe I have certain similarities there, 136 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:24,720 even though most people also experience myself as being more extroverted. 137 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,880 So I can totally align with that. 138 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:41,040 If, yeah, there was a question that just popped up in my mind, but now it's, oh, back to the corporate. 139 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:42,080 Yeah. 140 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,240 So you mentioned that you were a director and you had a career. 141 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,920 How large was the team that you were responsible for? 142 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,560 At one point in time, I had a team of five. 143 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:53,280 A team of five. 144 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:53,760 Yeah. 145 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,480 And what were those persons responsible for? 146 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:56,960 Yeah. 147 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,320 So I was responsible for the marketplace, so retail. 148 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,560 So I had also visual merchandising managers, but also cross-functionally. 149 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:07,200 So I worked with merchandising and work with product. 150 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,680 So I had a cross-functional team, but also in my team, more the visual merchandising managers 151 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:14,160 that were also part of the team. 152 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,720 And also people that decide on how we educate our store staff. 153 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,280 So all those people were part of my team. 154 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:27,280 And that all came down to the physical stores? 155 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:27,760 Yes. 156 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:28,240 OK. 157 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,120 Yeah, but I was also responsible for the omnichannel strategy. 158 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,120 So how people go from online shopping to offline and the other way around. 159 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,520 So it's also a little bit of the digital side. 160 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,080 And then that's, in essence, that was then for the whole of your team. 161 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,840 In essence, that was then for the whole of Europe, Middle East and Africa. 162 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:46,240 Yes. 163 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,640 So you also traveled a lot during that time? 164 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:53,760 Yes, I traveled a lot, but I also at one point became a mother. 165 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,560 And then I also decided to travel less. 166 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:56,960 OK. 167 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:57,520 Yeah. 168 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,680 And that already started when I was pregnant and I was just not feeling well. 169 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:06,080 So I really said to my manager, hey, I need to, you know, take it. 170 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:06,640 Scale back a bit. 171 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:06,880 Yes. 172 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:07,120 Yes. 173 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,760 And in that, let's maybe touch on that a bit. 174 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,760 So the corporate traveling pace. 175 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,640 Were there any key lessons that you sort of picked up in that journey of your career? 176 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,960 Well, you know, I think the pace in general in corporate is so high. 177 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:29,440 It's fast moving. 178 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:31,680 You need to reply quickly. 179 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,080 You need to be on all the time. 180 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,000 But I think that COVID, when COVID hit, it showed us that, you know, 181 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,600 traveling is not really needed. 182 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:47,680 And so it was we were all used to traveling for all the meetings and small, big meetings. 183 00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:48,080 Yeah. 184 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,040 But at one point we realized it's not that important, right? 185 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:52,480 We can do it all through online. 186 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:53,760 And that was still fine. 187 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:54,080 Yeah. 188 00:11:54,080 --> 00:12:00,720 So it was part of that corporate busyness, but we realized that that's not really necessary. 189 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:02,320 Yeah. 190 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,320 So did that also kind of play a role then? 191 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:13,440 Because I'm now looking at the timeline 2020, 2021, 2020 being working from home 192 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,480 that we all had to do in that period. 193 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:22,640 Then I could imagine that you spent a lot more time with your daughter, son. 194 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:23,280 Daughter, yeah. 195 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,520 So working from home and being a lot more intimate with your daughter 196 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,040 than in the regular corporate flow. 197 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,400 Did that also start to sort of play a role in the decision making? 198 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:40,640 No. So for me, the decision making, it started already back in 2012. 199 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,080 So in 2012, I lost my dad to a sudden heart attack. 200 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,360 Oh, sorry to hear that. 201 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,080 Yes. Thank you. 202 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:51,120 And for me, like my dad was somebody who enjoyed life. 203 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,720 He was every minute just fully enjoying life. 204 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,880 And where was he? 205 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:57,600 Where did he live? 206 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:58,880 In Amsterdam. 207 00:12:58,880 --> 00:12:59,600 In Amsterdam. 208 00:12:59,600 --> 00:12:59,920 Yes. 209 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:00,640 Okay. 210 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:05,040 And so when he passed, there wasn't anything that I could think of 211 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,200 that he would regret not doing. 212 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,320 But I couldn't say the same about myself. 213 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,080 And also back then, my work life balance was way off. 214 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:21,120 I was working too much every evening, every weekend available during holidays. 215 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:22,720 So that was for me already the trigger like, 216 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,520 Shanine, if life is, if you're up like next week, next year, 217 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,120 you know, what would you regret? 218 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,440 And that was for me to start of finding my purpose, 219 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,240 finding what made me happy, finding what gave me energy. 220 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,000 So that was back to 2012. 221 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,480 That almost became a decade long journey then. 222 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,880 Yes. And then on top of that becoming 40, that mix, 223 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,880 realizing that kind of half of your life is done. 224 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,960 What are you going to do with the second half of your life? 225 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:54,160 That together made me realize like, oh, I have bigger dreams. 226 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,880 I want to create more impact than just the walls at Nike. 227 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,440 And that was kind of my decision on, hey, maybe it's time now to do your own thing. 228 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,240 And Hustle & Hustle was already a side hustle 229 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,400 for about three years before I made the decision. 230 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,120 So I was like, okay, Shanine, just do it. 231 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:18,960 So then calculating backwards, it started as a side hustle in 2018. 232 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,960 So then there was that six year period between 2012 and 2018. 233 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:30,240 And you said you were really searching and learning and trying to understand 234 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:31,840 and discover your purpose. 235 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,400 So what were some of the key things that happened in those six years then 236 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,680 before you started Hustle & Hustle as your side hustle? 237 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:44,400 Yeah. So when he passed away and I asked myself, okay, what gives me energy? 238 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,000 I started doing all the things that I loved doing. 239 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:48,880 And that gave me energy. 240 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,120 And that ranged from writing scripts for films, 241 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,040 that was organizing events for other entrepreneurs. 242 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,120 I was just doing all the things that made me happy 243 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:04,080 and also advising other women on their entrepreneurial life or professional life. 244 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,640 And all that I was doing for all those years. 245 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,880 And then in 2018, it trickled down to, oh, I think there's one thing that 246 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,480 really, really makes my heartbeat faster. 247 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,000 And that was the advisement and the consultancy 248 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,720 towards entrepreneurs and towards professionals. 249 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,360 And that then became my main focus. 250 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:24,960 Okay. Nice, nice. 251 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,880 So what I hear in that story is that... 252 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:38,640 So as a designer, there are certain frameworks that we use to execute what we do. 253 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,240 One of them is the double diamond. 254 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:47,600 And the double diamond is essentially you start with an idea or a concept 255 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:48,800 and you go broad. 256 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:55,440 So you open up and you start to explore and taste and research and understand 257 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,440 everything that there is to understand about that topic or subject matter 258 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:02,800 in the broadest sense. 259 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,080 And you reach a certain point where you now have to go back narrow. 260 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,840 So that's exactly sort of what took place on that six-year journey then 261 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,280 to then pinpoint, okay, it's this actually that I want to move forward with. 262 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,320 Amazing. 263 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,720 So we're gonna circle back now. 264 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:25,840 And we're gonna go back to... 265 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,840 Well, they always tell me you're not allowed to ask a lady her age. 266 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,880 You already gave some hints. 267 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,880 Yes, I'm 43. 268 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,880 I'm perfectly okay to say it. 269 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,880 So we're circling back 43 years ago. 270 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:40,880 Where were you born? 271 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,120 Born in Amsterdam. 272 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,800 Also raised in Amsterdam and still living in Amsterdam. 273 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,040 But indeed, as you mentioned, also in the intro, roots in Suriname. 274 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,040 So both my parents are from Suriname. 275 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,240 Have you traveled back during your youth or...? 276 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,400 I did, I did because my grandmother was still living there and some of my aunties 277 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:01,600 were still living there. 278 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:02,240 Yeah. 279 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,560 But the last time I was there recently was 2016. 280 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:07,360 Okay. 281 00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:07,840 Yeah. 282 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,040 So it's been some time. 283 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:09,760 Yes. 284 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,280 And do you have any siblings? 285 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:14,560 I have a half brother, yes. 286 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:15,040 Okay. 287 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:15,680 Yeah. 288 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,880 And so how was it like growing up in Amsterdam? 289 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,560 Yeah, it was good. 290 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,560 I had a really nice youth. 291 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,240 Both my parents are teachers. 292 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,240 So it was the pressure was on performing in school. 293 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:33,040 Yeah. 294 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,240 So I was... 295 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,560 Yeah, I've had a really good life. 296 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:43,200 Just studies and family and friends and Amsterdam is such a diverse city. 297 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:49,920 Most of my friends that I still consider my girlfriends now, I still, I know them back 298 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,280 from high school. 299 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:51,840 Oh, wow. 300 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,880 And a really diverse group of women. 301 00:17:54,880 --> 00:18:00,400 So kind of the diversity and the richness of that has always played a role in my life. 302 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,280 Oh, wow. 303 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,320 That's amazing. 304 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:02,880 Yeah. 305 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,720 And which part of Amsterdam did you grow up in? 306 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:07,440 The West. 307 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:08,000 In West. 308 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:08,640 Yes. 309 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,200 Okay. 310 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:09,680 Yeah. 311 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:18,160 So for those that aren't super familiar with Amsterdam, what are sort of the key monuments 312 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,160 or aspects of Amsterdam West? 313 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,880 Oh, well, the thing that I just mentioned, the thing that I really like from Amsterdam 314 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,160 West, it was such a diverse group of people. 315 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,160 Just the school that I was on, it was just a really nice city. 316 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:33,200 A really nice mix. 317 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,240 And also looking at the work that I do right now, which is more in the context of diversity 318 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,400 and inclusion, that's not weird to me. 319 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:41,520 That has been my life. 320 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,920 So that's really what I liked about that area. 321 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,800 That it's just all walks of life, people from all walks of life. 322 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,600 And yeah, nothing was strange. 323 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,440 And so fast forward in a little bit towards high school time. 324 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,120 You just mentioned that there are still many girlfriends from high school days that you 325 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,040 have contact with. 326 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:14,400 So you did VWO and you went on to college to do international business management. 327 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:14,900 Yes. 328 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:16,720 Where did you go to college? 329 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,280 In Diemen in Holland. 330 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:20,880 In Diemen? 331 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,560 Yeah, it's called In Holland. 332 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:23,440 Oh, In Holland. 333 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:24,160 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 334 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,520 I know the school. 335 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:26,160 I know the school. 336 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,120 Yes, yes. 337 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,920 And I did that for four years and it was a double degree course. 338 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,880 So partly in the Netherlands and partly in the UK. 339 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:33,520 Oh, nice. 340 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,840 Yeah, so I did a couple of semesters in the UK and I enjoyed my life over there. 341 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,160 Also, I used to dance when I was much younger. 342 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,440 I did Lucia Martas. 343 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:44,640 And also when I was in the UK. 344 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,160 What is Lucia Martas? 345 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,760 It's like a dance academy. 346 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:48,240 Okay. 347 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,080 So I was dancing four days a week when I was still much younger. 348 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:52,640 Oh, wow. 349 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:59,920 And then at one point it was like, okay, do you go and study or do you go and become a dancer? 350 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:05,760 And being from the Caribbean background, most of our parents would say... 351 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,360 That ain't happening. 352 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,800 You're not choosing a creative life. 353 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,080 We need security. 354 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,320 We need something that will bring the income. 355 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,080 So, Shanine, go and just study. 356 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,040 So that's what I did. 357 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:19,760 But I always kept on dancing. 358 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:26,320 And also when I was doing my study in the UK, every weekend I went to London and also danced there. 359 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,320 Yeah, and eventually got my double degree diploma. 360 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,480 And after that, I just knew that I wanted to work for a big corporate. 361 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:36,560 And I had my top five. 362 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:36,960 Yeah. 363 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,160 And Nike was number one. 364 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,320 So what were the other four? 365 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,320 A Unilever and a Coca-Cola. 366 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:43,280 Sorry, the top three. 367 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,880 Coca-Cola, Unilever and Nike. 368 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:45,440 Okay. 369 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:45,920 Yes. 370 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:46,480 And... 371 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,000 So why was Nike number one? 372 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,680 I just... 373 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,280 I was always wearing Nike. 374 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,200 I loved their storytelling. 375 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,880 I thought it was just, in my head, just an amazing brand to work for. 376 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,920 And they also had their European headquarters in the Netherlands, in Hilversum. 377 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,080 So I thought, you know, that that's the company that I would love to work for. 378 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,480 And I just went for it. 379 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:10,240 And you got it. 380 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,360 Well, I did it. 381 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:16,880 When I was there and I had my interview, I thought, oh, I think I did a great job. 382 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,920 But then I got the call that they didn't choose me. 383 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,440 I thought, oh, okay. 384 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,280 And I just kept on, you know, applying also on different companies. 385 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,960 And then they called me back saying, hey, didn't work out with the first candidate. 386 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,400 Are you still interested in that job? 387 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:30,960 Yes. 388 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,400 And I said, hell yes. 389 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,360 And that's when my journey started back in 2003. 390 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:36,000 Wow. 391 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:36,560 Yeah. 392 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,800 That's the year that I moved to the Netherlands. 393 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:39,600 Oh, really? 394 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:40,320 Yes. 395 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:41,440 Yeah. 396 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:42,480 Awesome. 397 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:43,200 Yeah. 398 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:55,520 So in, were there, if you look at the journey of ending up in corporate, also where you are right now, 399 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:05,920 what key lessons would you say that you experienced or you got in your early childhood or college days, 400 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,440 high school days? 401 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:14,640 Are there any of those key moments that you can think back like, oh, that moment really? 402 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:25,040 Well, I think the working hard piece, the working twice as hard piece has always stayed with me. 403 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:27,760 Could you elaborate on that? 404 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,680 What do you mean by working twice as hard? 405 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,800 I feel I know what you mean, but I'm not sure if everyone knows. 406 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,080 Well, hopefully you will know. 407 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,720 But as you know, being a woman, being a woman of color, being a black woman, 408 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:46,240 my mother always told me, you need to work twice as hard to prove yourself, to be successful in this 409 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:53,440 world. And that's always something that stayed with me. And that's what got me through college 410 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:59,920 and high school and landed my first job. And that helped me to also climb that corporate ladder. 411 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:07,760 But I also realized at one point in corporate that working twice as hard doesn't get you to the all 412 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:14,240 the way to the top. It just gets you so far. And then other things like, you know, networking, 413 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:21,280 personal branding, self promotion, and having your sponsors and your mentor and that whole 414 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,440 strategic political game. 415 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:30,320 Yeah, there's a whole strategic political game that in corporate you have to learn. 416 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:30,880 Yeah. 417 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,640 Learn or get burned. 418 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:39,680 Exactly. But kind of the working hard that was instilled in me as of a young age. And I'm still 419 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:45,200 doing that. Now I'm doing it for myself, which is nicer. But and I also know from experience, 420 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:54,320 what else is needed to be successful. And I think also just being yourself and that's enough. 421 00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:00,400 I think that is also something that was always, especially my dad, you know, that said to me, 422 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,800 it's enough what you're doing. It's okay. And that is also something that I just bring with me also 423 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:05,680 now. 424 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:06,160 Beautiful. 425 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,880 So you mentioned that your mom, how old is your daughter? 426 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:11,600 She's five. 427 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,240 She's five. 428 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,240 Yeah, and counting that she just turned five in November, but she's counting every night 429 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,440 till she's six. Mom, how many nights? No, exactly how many nights? I'm like, 430 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,920 child, it's far out. You just turned five. 431 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,560 You need to download. I think there's like these apps that you can download where you put in 432 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,400 like a date and then it will show you like the countdown every day. 433 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:40,480 That's a good one. I will just show her to her like, look here. But she's five. 434 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,760 Yeah, she's five. 435 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:52,400 That's a beautiful age as well. Mine's are six right now. So I can also relate to that part of 436 00:24:52,400 --> 00:25:02,560 the journey. Awesome. And what would you say it's like to be an involved mom and also an 437 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,360 entrepreneurial woman? Like I know there's quite some stuff to unpack there. 438 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:14,960 Yes. Well, what I would say is that it's hard. I think the mix of being an entrepreneur and 439 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,240 in my case, being a single mother, that combination, sometimes I think it's impossible, 440 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,400 but definitely my mom is making it possible. And just my fun, how do you say it? 441 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,360 Your support system, your community. 442 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:29,920 Exactly. 443 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:35,600 As they say, it takes a village. No, your village. That's the word. It takes a village to raise a 444 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:41,840 child. So it's really, you know, my mom who helps me sometimes to pick her up from school. 445 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:49,920 But then you also have like after care in school, she goes there. So it's that mix, 446 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,960 but also being an entrepreneur and having that flexibility helps. But just that combination 447 00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:01,200 and just having also the mindset of wanting to be successful and what that means. And, you know, 448 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:07,760 I had the success as a corporate person and now I want to have that same success as an individual, 449 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:13,440 as an entrepreneur. And that puts pressure on yourself. And I'm also doing the things that I'm 450 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:20,640 doing now for her and to show her what is possible, but also to make life in corporate or in media 451 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:28,080 more easy for her. So all that pressure, but then foremost, still being a great mom, 452 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:35,280 that combination sometimes just, yeah, it's so difficult, but it's, it's, I do it. Definitely. 453 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:40,800 She's my drive. She's my, definitely my drive to, to do what I'm doing now. So that helps. 454 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:48,960 Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm paused for a moment and just sort of leaving it sinking. 455 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:59,680 Yeah. Well, I also come from a single mom household. And well, they got divorced when I was 456 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:10,080 three, four years old. Okay. And I have six sisters. Nice. No brothers. Yeah. So I grew up 457 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:20,560 around a lot of female energy, quote unquote. So I can also understand and, and, and, and yeah, 458 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:27,200 yeah, have a deep understanding for what that means and what that can be like. But I think it's also 459 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:33,280 important to share these, these parts of the stories with, with, yeah, young women that might 460 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:38,560 be starting on their own journeys and going through something similar at the moment. Yeah. 461 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:44,480 I think having focus helps having clear boundaries helps. And I mean, when I was already in corporate 462 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,640 and becoming a mom, all of a sudden you have to have boundaries. You know, you need to pick her up 463 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:55,520 before that you would just stay long. And you know, there's, it also kind of shapes your life in a 464 00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:02,240 better way, being a mother and bringing that balance in. But yeah, it's not easy, but it's, 465 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:08,080 it's doable when you have the right support system and you have a clear idea of what you want to do 466 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:13,360 with your life or in your life and from for whom you're doing it. Yeah. So that, so those, 467 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:21,600 those aspects became a lot clearer for you after you got your daughter. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. 468 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:30,480 So coming back to this purpose question, right. Because I do feel like from your energy that 469 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:41,600 you're definitely way more in your live in your purpose at this moment. But could you remember 470 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:48,960 what was, what, what was some of the key things that brought you to, to, to understand and what 471 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:57,760 that is for yourself? Yeah. So, so in corporate climbing that corporate ladder, more often I 472 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:03,280 became the only one in the room saying the only woman in the room, definitely the only black woman 473 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:09,360 in the room. Often the only person of color in the room. And that puts some pressure on you, 474 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:15,040 right? Puts pressure on you to, Oh, I need to perform. I need to act some kind of weighing. 475 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,840 And I, I don't want that for my daughter. So I don't want her to be the only one in a room. 476 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,880 I want her to see multiple people that look like her. And also being in corporate, 477 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,720 I didn't see many role models that looked like me and I want her to have more role models at 478 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:38,080 higher level in corporate. So that purpose was driven from the situations that I have been in 479 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:45,520 and put pressure on me or limited me or were challenging my journey. And I want to remove 480 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:51,520 those for her. So that is where my, my, my purpose is coming from. And not only for her because she's 481 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,960 you know, a younger, younger generation, but there's so many people out there now are aged a little 482 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:06,320 bit younger. And I also want to change that setup for them. Oh, amazing. So in, in your journey, 483 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:14,960 you also described that you started to write and, and want to produce TV film. I know that there's 484 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:23,760 a, so, so besides the, the clear focus of bringing inclusivity and diversity in, 485 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:30,080 into the corporate world, there's also the, this creative aspect of the, of the filmmaking 486 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:36,560 and producing. Can you, can you elaborate on that a bit? Yeah, I will. Well, let me first tell this, 487 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:44,400 we have to go way, way back. So back in 2003, I think it was. So when you first got, got to Nike, 488 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,640 yes. So the, the friends that I'm mentioning that we're still friends. So we were sitting 489 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,240 in a restaurant and we were not seeing, we were not recognizing ourselves on TV. 490 00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:00,480 So we were like, I remember that as well. Yeah, it's still, it's now less white, but back then it was 491 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:06,640 really white. So we were like, oh, we need to change that. So we have no experience at all in 492 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,720 this industry. We said we need to change that. So we said, you know, we need to write our own 493 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:16,960 series. So we came up with a series that was about us, a diverse group of friends coming of age. 494 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:24,560 So we started writing, we started contacting producers, people to write with us. And it was 495 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:30,640 just a really fun journey. And at one point we even had a producer that was interested in our 496 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:36,480 concept, but he wanted to, we had to sell our rights. And back then we were like, sell our rights. 497 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,040 No, this is our baby. We're not going to sell our rights. So we said, thank you, mister. Yeah. And 498 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:48,320 we, and we moved on. And at one point we said, okay, it's not going to happen. But eventually 499 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:54,560 we didn't realize our dreams. And back in 2012, when I lost my dad, I needed some distraction. 500 00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:01,040 So I said to the girls, I want to rewrite this thing again. And they said, Shanine, you go ahead. 501 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:09,200 It's yours. We let you do your thing. Cause this is nine years later. Everyone is sort of in their 502 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:17,600 grownup life and a whole different phase. Yeah. The characters were literally 10 years older now. 503 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:23,840 So I started rewriting. I even invested in creating a pilot. So I was just doing everything just to 504 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:30,240 also keep busy. Cause in my mind, this was something that would never happen. So I thought it was 505 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,920 going to distract me for many, many years. So I started rewriting. I created a pilot. I created 506 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:43,440 a DVD and I sent the DVD over to RTL. I thought, oh, we know we can, maybe I can produce a series 507 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:48,960 for them. And remind you, I was still working at Nike all this time. And all of a sudden RTL 508 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:55,040 invited me to come and talk about it. I know that was my reaction. I was like, really? So I was 509 00:32:55,040 --> 00:33:00,080 sitting there at the table discussing this project and I was working at Nike. So I was not a 510 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,360 producer. I was not a writer, but I was sitting at that table. But then making TV drama is very 511 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:10,240 expensive. So they said to me, Shanine, what do you think of the idea of making a movie out of this 512 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:18,560 first? I was like, yeah, good, good. Let's do that. And then really fast forwarding to, I think 2016, 513 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:24,960 they said to me, Shanine, you need to find a producer for this. And then I knocked on the door 514 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:33,440 of the producer who offered us the proposal back in 2003. Oh, wow. 13 years later. And he said, 515 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,120 oh, yes, we'd love to. So that is the producer who produced the movie Alles voor elkaar, 516 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:45,280 which is now still on Netflix. And that was the start of kind of that journey of being in TV and 517 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:54,160 film industry. But just. So this idea that started back in 2003, first time around, you guys said no, 518 00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:03,040 but you probably also wasn't truly ready to make that type of step. 13 years later, you reconnect 519 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:09,200 with the same producer. He says yes. And it's currently on Netflix. Yes. So we were we had a 520 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:16,800 premiere in 2017. Yeah. And then after that, it was still kind of I was still intrigued by the 521 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:23,360 process of having an idea and then seeing it on TV and having more diversity in storytelling. 522 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:30,400 So in 2021, when I left Nike, I set up Hustle and Heart Consultancy and I officially set up a TV and 523 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,680 film production company, co-founded it with somebody. And we're now still creating TV shows 524 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:42,480 and movies. And so that's how that all kind of came about. So essentially, then you how many 525 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:49,760 companies do you have? Two. Let me just ask the question to see if we have to unpack a couple more. 526 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:55,840 No, no, just to just to Hustle and Heart and Maya creators. OK, yes. Nice. Yeah. So how many 527 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:02,880 because you're saying TV shows, films, how many projects have you guys produced? Yeah. So we just 528 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:10,400 now in May 7th, our first series will air, which is really great. Where will it be airing? In 529 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:17,120 NTR. So on the NPO, so the Dutch Public Broadcaster. And then we're also now working on 530 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:22,320 various other projects, but they're in an earlier phase. And one of them is called Hotel Padamari, 531 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,120 though, which is going to be a movie project, which is also kind of a little bit inspired 532 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:33,440 about my story. So my grandmother used to have a hotel in Suriname. And back also, when I was in 533 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:39,600 corporate, I had this dream of leaving that all behind, you know, in that purpose finding journey, 534 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:45,200 leaving it all behind and going there and reviving the hotel. Never had the balls to do it, 535 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,640 but now creating a movie out of it. Yeah. So that is also one of the projects that is 536 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:59,840 that is happening. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So is so on the first one, the first one that you 537 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:07,680 guys produced, you wrote the entire thing? No, no. So it's very funny because I don't have a 538 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:13,520 network experience education in this industry. So it was really my idea. And I really had kind 539 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,480 of an outline of the characters, but somebody else wrote it and somebody else directed it and 540 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,560 somebody else produced it. So it was, that was also the trigger of becoming a producer, because 541 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:29,120 I didn't really have a role. I just came up with the idea, but then you lose your role within the 542 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,520 project. So that's when I also realized, okay, if you really want to do something in this industry, 543 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:40,400 as I'm not a director or a writer, then the producer is kind of maybe the role that fits 544 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,440 well with me. So going, making sure that from an idea to do something, to, to realize it, 545 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,080 that is then becoming my responsibility as a producer. Okay. Could you unpack a little 546 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,920 bit more what exactly a producer does? Yeah. So a producer, you can either have your own ideas 547 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,320 and making them, making sure that you find the right writers, making sure that you get the budget 548 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,640 when you have the budget and you have a goal, making sure that you have the crew to produce it. 549 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,320 So it's really making sure that the one thing that you want to produce, that will be a film or 550 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:17,920 a TV, that that whole journey of people, money, everything comes together. So essentially it kind 551 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:25,120 of sounds like the producer is sort of the, the, the, the corporate person that can juggle these 552 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:31,200 multiple balls. Yes. Knows how to network well because you have to get all of these different 553 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:39,440 roles together to, to, to form quote unquote, the Avengers team. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. And also 554 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:45,760 being able to sell or pitch a story, which is also something that I learned in, in corporate life. 555 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:53,600 The marketing and sales of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. From, from, from idea to, 556 00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:02,400 to actual production. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Knowing what you know today and all that you have 557 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:09,840 achieved so far. And also I can imagine all that you have set in your mind that you still want to 558 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:16,240 achieve and the path that you're currently on. What advice would you give your 18 year old self? 559 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:28,000 Ooh, I knowing what I know today, I would probably say something like you will, 560 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:35,280 you will be most successful or you will fly the highest when you use your own wings. 561 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:44,080 So, you know, growing up and even still recent, sometimes you just look, you know, oh, how should 562 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:50,480 it, how should you do it or how are artists doing it? How is society doing it? But I continuously 563 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:56,960 realized that when you just do your thing, the way you think it should go, that's when, when it 564 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:03,440 works. So when, when, when you learn to listen better and truly to your own intuition. Yeah. 565 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:09,520 Yeah. Intuition, believe in what you're doing, what you, what your, your goal is, then then you 566 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:15,840 will, you will make it, you will, you will fly high and you'll be successful. And the other thing, 567 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:22,480 what I realized is that what is meant for you will be for you. So for example, also with the Nike, 568 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:28,880 so in the beginning I got a rejection, but it was, it was meant for you because they called me 569 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:34,800 afterwards. And a lot of these things also, I had hustle and heart as a side hustle and people are 570 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,560 like, are you leaving Nike? Are you not leaving Nike? What are you doing? And I didn't know. 571 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:44,960 And only at that moment when, when you know, you know, yeah. And it was then meant for me to make 572 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:51,680 that decision. So, you know, life is just set in its ways and however path you need to walk on, 573 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:58,000 you will walk on it. Whatever's meant for you will be for you. And is there something else? 574 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:05,600 And maybe because I was a very serious kid, I was very like very serious with everything. 575 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:15,360 So maybe knowing now, I would definitely say enjoy more of the world, enjoy more of the small things, 576 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:22,960 enjoy more of family and friends to kind of, because it's nothing is a guarantee. And also 577 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:29,920 all of a sudden you're 43. And you're like, yeah, when did that happen? You know, so enjoy more of 578 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:37,040 life already when you're 19 or, you know, 18 or 25, because you will never get that piece of your 579 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:45,200 life back. So that will be my three lessons or tips to, if, very good lessons, very good tips. 580 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:52,640 And, and what would you say as a 43 year old, do you as a person feel very different than your 581 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:54,880 18 year old counterpart? 582 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:05,760 Well, I'm still kind of serious, but maybe a little bit more relaxed now. But I think in the 583 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:11,280 core, I'm still the same. Yeah. I think in the core, I'm still. And the reason why I asked that 584 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:20,480 question is also to, to maybe mirror that back to those that are 18, 20, 25 right now that, 585 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,600 that may be thinking in their head, Oh, I'll, I'll get serious when I'm 40 or I'll do this when I'm 586 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:36,640 then to, I believe that part, part of you just very much stays the same as even as that 10 year 587 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:44,720 old kid. And, and your experiences sort of add color and flair to everything that's about you. 588 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:52,880 But, but truly in your core, you remain the same. So if there's, if there's any changes that you 589 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:59,120 believe you want to make in your life today, go ahead and start making them and don't wait for 590 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:04,160 30, 40, whichever age to make those changes. I agree. I agree. In the core, you remain, 591 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:09,600 you remain the same. Yeah. Yeah. So if we look into, if we look into the crystal ball of the 592 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:18,240 future, what are some of the plans that you would, that, that, yeah, the ones that you want to share, 593 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:25,200 obviously, I think looking in the crystal ball, I hope positive heart just becomes a really 594 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:35,680 successful business that is not as much so dependent on me, but that I can just not be there, 595 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:44,640 really be the CEO and have more trainers and have more impact. And so that hopefully that will, 596 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:50,560 that will happen. And I hope to create lots of content when it comes to video and films and 597 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:57,440 maybe do something that goes international. Oh wow. Yes. That would be amazing. And just do a lot of 598 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:03,600 travel, traveling with the little one and hopefully, yeah, my daughter just growing up as a, being a 599 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:12,160 wonderful person. Yeah. I think, yeah, I'm very hopeful for the future, very positive. And the 600 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,680 things that I'm doing, I don't, I don't foresee something totally different than what I'm doing 601 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:20,720 now. Okay. Just the things that I'm doing now becoming bigger and creating more impact. Yeah. 602 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:29,040 And we, I don't think we actually sort of touched on at least the aspect that I know that you do. 603 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:36,800 And I've heard you do so well. Yeah. Because all ladies that have attended, including my young 604 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:46,560 niece, I think she was in the mix of older, older women and there were some surprising and, and let's 605 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,840 say different nuggets that were unlocked that took a while to sink in. Yeah. Because she's 606 00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:01,280 21. Yeah. And she attended one of the meetups. The Sisterhood Defense? The Sisterhood Defense. 607 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:09,680 Oh yeah. So could you unpack a bit what you guys do in the Sisterhood events? Yeah. So, Sisterhood 608 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:16,800 events. And how does it relate to Hustle and Heart? It's an event under the brand. Yeah. 609 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:24,000 Okay. Yeah. So it's an event under the brand starting from the fact that I feel that women 610 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:32,000 amongst each other can support each other more. And I just started, or first it was an online thing, 611 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,840 and then I started to create physical events. So female entrepreneurs, female professionals coming 612 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:42,880 together and supporting each other, rooting for each other, having fun with each other. So it's 613 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:50,160 you can, it's a typical, you can, it's a networking event, but we're just doing it in a way that makes 614 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:58,720 it fun and that you get value out of it. You get energized from it and you just go out with valuable 615 00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:04,880 contacts. And that falls under the umbrella of Hustle and Heart Consolidation. And we do it four 616 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:10,000 times a year. And there's always a group, every time when people leave, they're like, I don't know 617 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:15,680 how you get these women together. I'm like, yeah, it's, it's, it's a particular type of woman comes 618 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:20,560 to it. The woman that wants to see another woman shine, that wants to see another woman thrive. 619 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:25,040 And there is, you know, if you, if you're successful, I'm successful. That type of mindset, 620 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:30,400 those type of women come there. Because essentially it's, it's, it's those women that are also 621 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:36,800 inviting people in their network saying, girl, yeah, next time you should join me. Literally, 622 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:42,000 this is what people like, I was talking to somebody who joined, she said, Jeannine, I was so energized 623 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:47,520 after the session, I called my friends and I said, Mark, this next date and you have to come. So 624 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:54,800 that is kind of the women that come and we do some dancing. My wife, my wife has went to a couple 625 00:45:54,800 --> 00:46:03,760 events now. She first got invited by Nicole. Yes. And you guys work together at Nike, right? Yeah. 626 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:11,200 So it went exactly like that. Like, like we were having one of these conversations in our friend 627 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:17,040 group at some point and Nicole mentioned that, oh, you should come to this event. It's awesome. 628 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:25,440 La de glace. And she went to it and then eventually she started to also spread the word. And yeah. So 629 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:31,200 again, the power of networking and the power of bringing true added value. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And 630 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:37,280 being there for each other and just wanting to see, to see each other rise and shine and be 631 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,600 successful, whatever you want to do. Yeah. And so that's where I see through it. And some people 632 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:46,960 hate the word. Some people connected to race. Some people, I don't really, I'm not bothered 633 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:54,400 about how you see it. But from what I understood, the women that come, it's very diverse. It's all 634 00:46:54,400 --> 00:47:00,320 backgrounds. Yeah. All background, all races. It's so diverse and that one makes it really nice. 635 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:04,800 It's professionals, so people working in corporate, but it's also entrepreneurs. And I think that 636 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:10,640 that combination is really nice. There are a lot of people in corporate that dream of becoming an 637 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:16,160 entrepreneur or have this entrepreneurial mindset. So that I think that mix works really well. So 638 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,800 it's just an amazing. And I also, and I always give like a workshop around the particular 639 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:26,560 topic that is relevant. So it could be around visibility, personal branding, self promotion, 640 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:32,080 and mentoring, you name it. So it's a mix of really having fun, having great food conversation, 641 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:38,720 but also learning something. Yeah. And interesting enough, you just mentioned a keyword mentoring. 642 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:50,000 Yeah. Can you think back on certain moments in life where you believe either you went out seeking 643 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:55,760 it or organically someone was your mentor at a specific moment and then what that did for you? 644 00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:01,120 Yeah. The importance of mentorship. Definitely. So there's two things popping in my mind. So when 645 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:07,680 I was in corporate at one point, I realized that having a mentor is really important. So there was 646 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:14,240 like an, one moment in my career where I was for a long time working in product development, 647 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:19,280 but I wanted to move into marketing. And then typically in corporate, they were like, no, 648 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:24,240 you work in product. You cannot move into a different pipeline. And I was like, why is that? 649 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:31,040 And then I reached out to get a mentor. Exactly. That doesn't work in my mind. So I got a mentor 650 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:37,360 and this was a director, senior director who was already in marketing, who was already in brand. 651 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:42,640 And it took me a long time to ask her because I was, will she be, will she say yes? Will she be 652 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:48,080 busy? Will she say, what are you bothering me for? But I eventually asked her and she said, 653 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,840 yes, she was really, she said, oh, I would love to. And also within eight months, 654 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:57,840 I was able to make the jump. Oh, wow. Yeah. And another moment. How, how, how do you think 655 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:03,680 that would have gone if you didn't get connected to a mentor? I think it would either take longer 656 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:08,480 or wouldn't even happen. And I think usually when you have a mentor, it just speeds things up. 657 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:14,160 So that was for me an ideal move. And I did that multiple times. There was also a point when I was 658 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,480 a manager for many years and I thought that I was ready to become a director. 659 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:25,360 But I thought that, but not all the people amongst me were thinking that, especially the leaders. 660 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:30,400 So also that moment I realized like, oh, what do I need to do? You know, what is that? What is the 661 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:35,520 X factor of the director that exactly, what is the perception that people have that maybe need to 662 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:41,040 change? And also then I reached out to a mentor to say, Hey, I want to stay, make that step up. 663 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:46,720 Can you support me? What do I need to do? And then he gave me the platform to show up as a director 664 00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:52,720 in the key meetings. And also within one and a half years, you know, I made that jump. And now, 665 00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:59,360 and I do have to say that in corporate world, it's something that you do often. But as an 666 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:04,000 entrepreneur, I didn't do that. I didn't have a mentor, but just this year I started having a 667 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:12,320 mentor, Samantha. And my God, it's the same effect on your business. You're just growing rapidly as 668 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:17,680 a person, as an entrepreneur in your business. So I would always, always recommend. And it's 669 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:23,520 just finding the right person that adds value, that figure out first what you need. I think 670 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:28,800 that's always important. And then find that person that can speed up that process towards your goals. 671 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:42,160 Awesome. Beautiful. Is there, is there anything else in particular that you would like to share 672 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:51,440 with our audience? Well, my company is called Hustle and Heart Consultancy. And I doubted 673 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:58,800 for a long time about that name, especially the word hustle. Because for some it still has a 674 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:06,720 negative connotation. But for me, the hustle mentality means dreaming big. It means having 675 00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:14,320 the courage to go for something. It means being okay to fail, because you fail, you grow. And it 676 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:15,200 means- Fail forward. 677 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:20,080 Fail forward, exactly. And it means just to, and that I can say that because I worked for the brand 678 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:25,760 for such a long time, it means I just do it mentality. So for me, it's such a positive 679 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:32,880 mindset mentality. So I would encourage people to dream big, take the courage, because sometimes 680 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:37,440 people aren't smarter or having a bigger network. They just have the courage to do something. 681 00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:39,200 Take that step. 682 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:46,080 Exactly. Exactly. And just do it. And for me, the moment where I'm proud of just not that long ago, 683 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:54,000 Nike gave me a call. So I still, Nike is now a customer of mine. Yes. And they just gave me a 684 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:58,560 call. And I think I can share this, but they just gave me a call that they have a new global 685 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:05,200 strategy. And part of that strategy, it comes with a couple of behaviors. And the three behaviors 686 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:15,280 are hustle, one, heart, two, and here to win, three. And they reached out if I wanted to give 687 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,320 a workshop on, how do you get that hustle mentality back? How do you get that passion back? 688 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,560 How do you get it? So when they called me and I had a conversation, I was like, 689 00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:33,120 yes, this name is just fine. This mentality is just fine. It's good. So I would really stimulate. 690 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:39,280 But it comes back to what you were saying earlier with trusting that intuition and trusting 691 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,360 to the best way it truly works is when you do it your way. 692 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:49,600 Yeah. Yeah. And also just going after your dreams and not giving up. And so I would, 693 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:55,280 if there's something that I would like to share, is just, that's stimulate that. Stimulate that 694 00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:01,600 mindset of hustle and heart. And then anything is possible. I mean, working at Nike and realizing a 695 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:07,760 movie, I mean, who would have think, you know, it is possible. You just have to really believe 696 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,240 in yourself and you don't have to continuously believe in yourself because also go with ups and 697 00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:16,960 downs. And I'm not always this confident woman. It also goes with ups and downs. 698 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:24,320 But when you zoom out and you look at the bigger picture, then that confidence is always present. 699 00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:33,360 Let's say the degree to which the cup is filled up may vary depending on seasons and life 700 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:39,360 circumstances, et cetera, but it always contains some type of content. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. 701 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:47,360 So I would stimulate to think big and also going back maybe to 2012, losing my dad. He was 63. So 702 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,760 he passed away in April. That is still fairly young. Fairly young. Yeah. He passed away in April and 703 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:58,240 after the summer he would have retired. Oh, wow. So life is not a given. So if there's anything 704 00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:05,680 else that I would like to share is, you know, knowing that don't wait for, you know, permission 705 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:12,000 or don't wait for retirement or when you get ill and all of a sudden then you think like, oh, you 706 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:18,480 know, so just go and do the things that give you passion. And if you don't know what it is, 707 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:25,040 go and figure it out. Go on that journey. Go broad. Yeah. Start tasting. Exactly. And then at one point there will be 708 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:30,480 like, ah, this is it. And it could be a small thing or it could be a big thing. It could mean that you 709 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,760 would leave the thing that you're doing now. You don't know. But that journey on its own is already 710 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:43,520 worth trying it. Yeah. Awesome. Beautiful. Cheneen, thank you very, very much for coming all the way 711 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:50,400 down in Eindhoven. Yeah. Thank you for having me. And being the first person to represent Suriname 712 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:58,800 in our Sunside Kingdom journey. So can you share? Well, we'll definitely have them in the description 713 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:05,360 below. But maybe some of the key URLs where people can find you. Yeah. So I'm easy to find on LinkedIn, 714 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:12,720 just under my name, Cheneen Lebrun, Instagram also, Cheneen Lebrun. So it's definitely easy to catch 715 00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:20,720 me. And there's a Hustle and Heart website. Yes. So www.hustleandheartconsultancy.com. And always up 716 00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:26,720 for a coffee. Could be digital, could be live, just chatting and sharing stories and experiences. 717 00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:33,680 Always up for that. Awesome. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Thank you for having me. And thank you guys at home 718 00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:40,160 for watching. This has been another amazing conversation for myself. And I hope it has brought 719 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:47,920 out some tremendous value to you guys. Please like, subscribe, share, comment. Yeah. Let us know if 720 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:53,200 there were any key questions that I might have missed that I can circle back around at another 721 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:58,240 point in time and ask that we would like to know. And share this with a friend. Share this with 722 00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:04,880 someone that is now in, yes, specific parts in their journey that they can definitely learn 723 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:11,680 something from our amazing conversation with Cheneen today. Thank you for tuning in. I'll see you in 724 00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:27,120 the next one. Bless.