People, welcome to the Sunside Kingdom show here with another episode in season two.
I'm super excited, man.
I have with me David Levy, Levy Maduro.
This man has been a pioneer in the payment space.
We met a few years back.
I actually met his business partner a few years before that and has been advocating for online payments throughout the Dutch Caribbean.
And I believe actually throughout the greater Caribbean for the greater part of the past decade.
So innovation is something that we love here.
And we're going to get into some innovative talks with Mr. David Levy Maduro.
Welcome to the Sunside Kingdom show.
Thank you to Sapphire Beach Club for sponsoring the location of this episode.
Welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Don. How are you?
Let's just say I'm not tired. I'm excited. Nice.
We've got the Smile Conference coming up.
And for me, it's only a pleasure when we can talk about not just payments, but innovation.
Yeah. One of the words I heard somebody say a couple of months ago and I kept using it.
Innovation knows no history.
And we all need to think about the future.
Yeah. And what do we need in the future?
We don't know yet. Yeah.
We want to get there and make sure that not everything's tied up and everything's good to go.
And then you find out payments.
So let's rewind the clock a bit and let's go back to the early days.
Where did David grow up?
Well, I'm born and raised in Curacao.
Yeah.
In Papua we say, my umbilical cord is in Curacao.
Yeah. We say that too in Zmar, then.
I do have a I'm Jewish and I'm part of the Jewish culture in Curacao, which goes back generations.
And I don't know when a lot of like six generations in Curacao.
Yeah. With our family.
So I know that my grandmother was born in Curacao.
I am. But my mother's side is from Holland.
OK.
So basically growing up as a younger brother.
Yeah. And I had my sister.
So how many siblings?
I have one sister. She's four years older than I am living in Holland.
And she has a son and 25 years old.
I'm his godfather.
Godfather, correct.
The piet oom, right?
What do you say in Dutch?
Pietvader.
Yes.
And basically at I think around 14, 15 years old, I started with leadership courses.
Got sent out to McGonagall, Wisconsin.
Where?
McGonagall, Wisconsin, where I went for a chapter leadership course for the B'day Birth Youth Organization.
Yeah.
And I think at that moment, my leadership kicked in.
How to become a better leader, how to act as a leader, how you're supposed to do a board meeting, how you need to conduct a meeting.
So all of that you learned in college?
No, at 14, 15.
Oh, this was this was high school.
Yeah. And this was more because Curacao doesn't have much to offer.
Or in the Caribbean, usually you go out to the States or Latin America or Holland.
Or the Dutch Kingdom.
So you do that, but then you come back and now what?
So I was also because my dad is a lion for 51 years old.
And you'll have to give the people a little bit more background for those that don't know about the Lions Club.
So the Lions Club is a service club, community service club, kind of like the Kiwanis, the Rotary and so forth.
So my father is a lion now for 51 years.
He's a life member as well.
But you are a cub, a cub of a lion.
And as a cub, I used to partake in community service projects with the Lions.
I used to go with my parents and help out programs like the Boombi Sina, where we teach the kids in Curacao or in schools, teach them how to be a good neighbor.
So that means you would need to make sure to come with a can around the December month, November, December month.
So a can of goods.
So the Lions would pick that up, put it in a bag and give somebody who doesn't have it very well that they could have a better Christmas.
Yeah. So that is to teach the kids.
And from that moment on, I liked it a bit how to help the community.
And around 18 or 19, I joined the Leo Club.
L as in leadership, E as an experience and O as an opportunity.
Now, Sir Martin has two Leo Clubs as well.
So there's a difference between the Lions Club and the Leo Club.
That's correct.
The Lions Club has the Leo Club as a kind of like, let's set a tone for the future.
So let's teach the future.
Let's give tools to the future.
That's the Leo's Club or the Lions Club?
The Leo's.
OK.
So that's like you have childhood cancer, you got environment, you got eyesight, you got several, you got five pillars.
One of them is the youngsters.
OK.
Being the Leo Club.
Yeah.
So we have Leo Clubs, we sponsor Leo Clubs.
And I was a Leo myself for four years.
Was a president.
We even did the international convention about 200 and some Leos that came from around the region, from around the world, came to Curacao.
However, at 19, I decided that I flunked out of school again.
Yeah.
There's a long story, but OK.
And I started working because as a 14 or 15, I was kind of like earning my wage already or extra sacralte.
Where I would like to buy something or do something.
And I would work as a waiter, but like a lot of kids do.
Yeah.
But I made it a profession out of it.
But that was back in Curacao, right?
Because you so.
I never left the unit.
OK, so the time that you spent in the States was more like a summer camp.
There was a two week program.
Oh, two week program.
OK, got you.
I'm kind of like jumping around and mind you, I know it's OK.
I told you also before we started that I'm a person that has a lot of passion.
And when I get too passionate, I get excited.
Yeah.
So I'm not going to.
I've experienced passionate David a couple of times.
I get passionate about several things, but not that much.
Not that it scares everybody, but when I set the tone,
when I'm really imminent and passionate about something, I'm not to be stopped.
Oh, nice.
However, at 19, I flunked out and I had to get a job.
Yeah.
I also moved out and I went into my own studio, paid my.
I went into a loan and paid my car, second hand car Suzuki.
And from there on, I started working.
Yeah.
Food and beverage.
Because of the experience I had already, I got a chance to start as a supervisor
in the Sonest Hotel in Curacao.
So I was I got training from Sonest.
So that's Sonest Hotel.
That's one of the partner or previous partners of the one here in St. Martin as well.
Yes.
Same thing as in King Bridge.
And they had a couple of cruise ships and they had a couple in Miami as well.
Keep a skating film, I'm saying.
So what physically happened was that you got training, like Marriott trains
of people and Hilton trains of people.
Sonest did as well, standard operational procedures.
Yeah.
So what I got in me was a lot of training.
One and a half year in, two years in, I won a scholarship of Feifeik.
That was the local hotel school we had.
OK.
And I won a summer course at Hoogeschool, Hoge Hotel Valkshoek, Den Haag.
So I went for two months.
OK.
So we upgraded from two weeks to two months.
Now I got a training for two months.
I think at that moment that would be around 90.
Yeah, it could be that I would be in my 21st, 22nd year.
The course that I took was food and beverage management.
However, and I can look back and say that is when I could trace back
that what I'm using right now, what I used to do, all comes together.
Because I was doing something and maybe you'll hopefully you'll learn something new.
There's something called food and beverage that not everybody knows about,
even though it could be a Chandon or Tissier or whatever Michelin star, whatever.
Yeah.
There's something called menu engineering.
And manipulation.
OK.
So I lost.
I was always bad at numbers.
Yeah.
But I was on Lotus one, two, three.
That's way back when on Lotus one, two, three.
That's before Excel.
Oh, whoa.
When you mentioned Lotus, I talked about the car.
What Lotus is he talking about?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's way, way, way, way.
Black screen with the yellow and the pink.
So we made an unfloppy this three, three, three and a half inch desks.
We made a software where the cost control would go all the way from the recipe would
be broken down into the ingredients and the ingredients would be will be purchased.
The first price we put in the menu item would then have a cost price.
So this is what you were doing as a as a as a waiter side gig.
I learned I went to this course.
So what what I loved was this.
Oh, in those two months.
In those two months.
I learned a lot more, but that triggered triggered and stayed with you.
So I learned how to manipulate the menu.
Bring down the price of meat.
Bring up the price of a nice red wine.
Yeah.
But bring up the price of chicken and fish.
So you would have that meat.
You would have the bottle of wine.
You would spend more money.
And in the end, the profit and loss would be better.
Yeah.
So what I did was I put that into practice when I was also in other industries that I
worked out.
So on ninety five or ninety six, I left the Sinesta and just before the Marriott took
over, I helped the food and beverage manager back then for a few months for the transition.
However, I found myself without a job.
And that was after I worked for Pizza Hut, Texas, La Paria and also La Pergola restaurants.
So this is all in the food and beverage.
Correct.
Yeah.
I found myself lost and I did a little bit of ICT web development, but then bring up
the money.
Yeah.
So I found myself a bit lost.
And then I found myself as a clerk, a phone clerk at a sports betting sports betting,
a call center in Curacao.
But the call center, they did this for Curacao itself or was where were the client base?
The client's base was in the United States and in Europe.
OK.
So we would handle the bets, the football bets, baseball bets and so forth.
But then I grew into the organization, knew the owner very well.
Yeah.
And then I moved into accounting.
Don't ask me how or why.
I hate the numbers, but I was in charge of the money.
OK.
So food and beverage, sports betting.
Now we in accounting.
So we well, I guess a sports betting and accounting, there's a sort of a correlation,
but we're almost tackling three different industries here.
No, because I said ICT and web development as well.
So we already got four and this is by age.
Twenty eight, twenty seven.
So in principle, and I told you a secret about me already that I have more than just those
three or four.
So I found myself suddenly at the receiving and the sending side of the monies of the
sports betting.
Yeah. Then everybody knows PayPal.
I know PayPal when they started.
Yeah.
And they had sports betting, had a accounts where you can pay out and pay in.
Then suddenly the US said, I don't love that.
It stopped.
But then the start of Neteller started.
Neteller never heard of that.
Well, in the sports betting world, Neteller is the number one or Paysafe is the number
one company.
In Europe, doing the ins and outs for the sports betting world.
OK.
But then that's how I think because at that moment I was also creating my first in 98.
I created my first e-commerce site in Curacao in 98.
In 98.
That's really early.
That was physically 16 steps before you had one product on the website with a buy not
button.
minutes of work.
Yeah.
Shopify account, pop up, drag drop.
Correct.
So at that point, the e-commerce started kicking in.
I found myself not really earning a good buck.
I met my wife in 94 and things got a little tough.
And what I did was in 97, 97, 98.
In 97, 98, I went because the owner of the sports betting company invited me to take
a course in telecom auditing.
So I went to Fort Lauderdale and I learned how to audit telecom bills.
Telecom bills.
So if you would see an Internet pipeline or 15 pots, 15 lines that you need to pay
for on the bill.
A company we would work for a company would be auditing the telecom company for that
company.
So I would come to company A and I would look at their telephone bill, the telecom
bill, and it would say 48 telephone line spots.
And I would go and call every single line and see if they're working.
Have you ever had where you call somebody or a company and they don't pick up?
It's an empty ring.
Yeah.
You hang up, you pick up and you call again and suddenly you get the PBX, which has the
voice and everything else.
That line I used to go after, take it off from the instance that there was a report
or no report from the start of the contract.
Get that back as a refund and get forward savings as well.
Because if you haven't used it all this time, you can save.
However, in the U.S. you got the FCC.
So you pick up the line when somebody says I'm not when a telecom company says no,
thank you.
Yeah.
But then this I would like I wanted to do in Curazon same thing.
I would go to a telecom company in Curazon and say, Martin, and it didn't work.
Real telecommunication wasn't back there.
Oh, oh, that payroll or or not in that capacity that I could pick up the phone and start
ranting and raving.
However, going to the U.S. and getting a permit to stay in the U.S. is are two different
things.
Yeah.
So I started in 2005.
I was a sales manager at a auto industry company, auto sales company in Curacao.
It was part of a bigger group.
So I started selling as a sales and marketing manager.
I started selling cars.
Yeah.
So the food and beverage what I had and now in cars.
But remember, I said that the menu engineering manipulation brought me to several points
where OK, so I brought it actually to the minibars.
I would be a minibar manager in the Senes Hotel.
Yeah.
So I would be a manager in the hotel.
We see a minibar.
The first thing we do is not drink or not eat because it's too expensive.
Yep.
So how about me doing an inquiry and seeing what does sound, what doesn't sound?
And I put more of the inexpensive products.
Yeah.
So you buy more, you eat more, you drink more.
And in the end, I earn more.
Yeah.
Not I, the company I work for.
So that same thing I was going to put now in the car industry.
However, we were more in the supermarket business kind of for selling cars.
That's at a fraction of the price in earnings.
So were these cars secondhand cars or brand new cars?
New ones.
So it was Chevy and Honda, Cadillac, Hummer and a few other brands.
So I did the sales market.
So I remember and I'm going to say I told you a couple of minutes ago, but Trevor of Kiko the Kiko,
we had him in as well.
And he came with a let's do a video and let's go on the internet.
And back then, the internet wasn't that popular like now.
And because this is what 2005.
2005 was in the car industry doing sales and marketing.
Yeah.
So in 2006, we had the first websites on the island or actually in the Dutch Caribbean
to sell cars and also videos.
So we had the videos and the pictures that Trevor took in his program and we put it in there.
Nice.
So after 12 years, I don't want to say I got promoted, but I started doing not just sales
and marketing more, but I started doing more things for the whole thing that I was with.
So more like business development?
No, it was more into make sure that the social media channels, the websites,
I know that started working for the other channel.
So for rental cars and so forth.
But it was always missing something.
Since I did that one website with e-commerce, payments was part of that journey that we all
know if we're in marketing, you cannot close a customer journey until you have a payment.
Yep.
So I tell most of my merchants, you're going to you're going to crash mid cycle in the customer
journey.
And if you if you have a chance to reserve a car and you have a chance to pay for it,
the one you pay for has 99% insurance that you're going to come.
Yeah.
If you haven't paid for it, you got 990, 40% chance that you're not going to take it.
You're going to take another deal.
Yeah.
So and it's like that everywhere.
So in 2014, if I may interject.
So for those at home that may be wondering like, what are they talking about with this
customer journey?
The customer journey is essentially the journey that a customer goes through when they don't
know that you exist to the moment that they become an ambassador for the product that
they've purchased.
And you have several steps.
So you have the initial trigger phase where you're triggered by ad or a friend told you
etc.
Then you have the attraction phase.
So there's where well, the avalanche, the video experience attracts you to want to know
more.
Once you're attracted, then you want to find all the information that you need in order
to make your decision to purchase.
And then you have the purchase in part, which is super important.
So if you can't make that purchase happen seamlessly, then you basically lose a customer
at that point.
Then the fifth step, I believe, is usage.
So once you actually have the product and you're using the product and you might have
questions, etc. or needs improvement, support needed, etc.
So like usage support, five, six.
And then the last step is ambassador.
Yeah.
So in that final step, then you essentially become the trigger for someone else.
Yeah.
And they go through the customer journey as well.
Yeah.
So for me, it was a marketing one on one for you folks.
So I had sales and marketing, I had food and beverage, which is service oriented.
I had the cost analysis menu manipulation, the e-commerce parts.
And because of it, I come from a from my background is quite integral.
Hard work, hard labor, never killed someone and roll up your sleeves and get dirty.
I mean, I would grab my bike and I would, I think, go eight kilometers, nine kilometers
to a party.
It would start at 12 o'clock, work as a bartender.
And at seven o'clock in the morning, take the bike and go home again.
In the islands.
On the islands.
If it rained or not.
I mean, that's more likely in the Netherlands, but not in the islands.
I don't know if on Curaçao is more likely, on St. Martin is definitely not.
The roads in Curaçao also sometimes are not the best, but it is more of the journey that
you take the strive that you need to do something to get the job done.
Yeah.
And for me, it was also one of the defining moments in my career.
One of the defining moments which brought me to 2014 when CXP started.
I remember I was there for 94 and we married in 99 and 2000 again because first in front
of the government and then in the synagogue.
And we decided when we wanted to have the kids.
It was not a, oh, it's there.
No, we planned accordingly.
I don't want to say I want to be proud of it, but I just did.
It's strange sometimes how we still at this age think about the several points in your
life where you decided on something instead of the spur of the moment.
Yeah.
And right now Nathan is becoming 22 and Daniel's 18 already.
And I keep looking at him and I'm like, wow.
Either I see myself in it or I wish I could have their life because sometimes it's not
about what you didn't have, but what you're going through.
And I'll give an example with Leo Club.
Nathan is in the Leo Club right now, I think six years and Daniel not.
Daniel doesn't want to even become a Leo.
He's not interested at all.
No, but he's the first one to come in line and tell you, let's go help.
When he was a kid in group three, and we had Bon Bessinia, he would.
What was Bon Bessinia?
Bon Bessinia is a good neighbor project for the food for any other year.
He would come with me and we would pack.
Yeah.
And I, as a cub as well, back in that age as well, I would jump into a big crate where
all the cans are dumped in and I would stand there and I would grab them and put them on
the line and the lines would pass by and one here and two of this and one of this and put
them in all the bags and move on to the next crate.
He was doing the same thing.
Nathan was doing the same thing and I was like.
This is this is nice.
I my father planted it to me and I planted it to them.
However, when he was, I think in when he was eight years old.
Yeah.
Eight years old, he invited or maybe even seven, he invited his teachers of the group
three and four.
He would invite them to a night that we would be doing this.
Okay.
Collections.
Yeah.
Which triggered the teachers to experience this food collection and bags doing putting
stuff in the bags.
Yeah.
It didn't matter for me at that moment what my son wanted.
My son was helping and planting those seeds for others to do this too.
You do with a teacher.
What does the teacher do the next day?
They teach it to the others and to the kids to the future.
Yeah.
And that happens.
Okay.
So when and so then it went from being his special thing to be in the teacher.
And so it's the experience, the community service, the helping.
So I think when Daniel was 12 or 13, he had a chance to join the Leo club.
Yeah.
Didn't want to.
And at that moment, didn't want to meant, oh, okay.
But he would and mind you, and this is the truth.
When the kids need to come with the with the with packets to school, we would collect them.
We had purchased a bag of stuff.
He would take it to school.
Yeah.
The next day, he had another bag with stuff in it to go to school.
I'm like, did you forget yesterday?
No.
Did you go with it yesterday?
Yes.
So what's that?
Nobody else came.
So I came with it.
Oh, I'm like, wait a moment.
Where's that from?
It's like from the cabinet.
I'm like, from what we purchased.
So now we not need to go to the supermarket again to do our week's purchase.
It's like, yep.
And at that moment, I said, you don't need to be a Leo to have learned how to help others.
Exactly.
But that's exactly the good neighbor.
Now, Nathan, on the other hand, he's very outgoing and he's and he's the one who wants to.
He must say he said he wants to become and he wants to go ICT.
I said, or what else?
He says, psychology, that don't fit.
I can imagine.
Go ahead.
And he's doing really well.
But he's the one with the friendship and he likes to meet and this and that.
And I see myself a lot in both of them.
Yeah.
But not all of myself.
Yes, different parts.
That's correct.
Yeah.
So why?
That is the beauty of kids.
So what?
Why did I say this?
Because my why?
My why has not been formed yet.
Your why?
My why.
Your purpose.
That is correct.
OK, interesting.
I'm still at 52.
Yeah.
Still trying to define it.
Have you heard of the Japanese philosophy of Ikigai?
No.
OK, so I'll break it down a little bit, but off camera, we might get into a bit more details.
But it's an interesting one.
It also helps you to define the purpose.
So essentially, you have, let's call it like a four quadrant Venn diagram.
So four circles that are intersecting.
The first circle is what you love.
So you would list all the things that you love.
And that's usually easy for us to do.
Well, I mean, with enough experience, we can start to just become very, very truthful
in the things that we love and the ones that we don't love.
Then we have what we love, then we have what we're good at.
So that's what you have experience in.
Well, you just named up about six or seven different industries.
But as we know, for the past decade, you've been fully focused on the online payments.
But it's also interesting that throughout that journey of all of the online payments,
because you've been in so many different industries, you also have a bit more of
the affinity for all the different industries that because all industries need online payments.
Yeah, but each there's other there's triggers in each that you need to have.
And each that you can use in the other ones.
Yeah.
So I've learned a lot from each other, but I had an open mind.
Without an open mind, it's not going to work.
It's not going to work.
But even switching between all of those industries, you would have to start with an open mind,
because otherwise you would be too focused on that one thing.
OK, but let me wrap up the IKIGAI part.
So you have the circle of what you love.
Then there's a circle of what you're good at.
Then there's a circle of what can you get paid for.
And then there's a circle of what the world needs.
And when all four of those circles intersect, that's where the IKIGAI is.
And I believe just based on the conversations we had so far, you do know your purpose.
It is already somewhere there.
Maybe you haven't fully written it out and defined it and settled into it.
But I'll share that with you.
It's also a journey that I've been on for the last couple of years.
And one of the elements that I see as part of my IKIGAI is doing these type of conversations.
Yeah, it's nice because it gives the other person also to suddenly open up.
And as I mentioned to Claire, I don't open up for myself.
It's more about the business.
And sometimes I find myself at the other end thinking of myself,
can't this guy shut up because he's only talking about payments or about what he loves.
And it's not about the rest.
So I am a lion about 14 years ago.
I joined the Lions Club finally.
It's sort of as of the Leo Club because it's 13 to 18, you got a Leo Club.
And 18 to 30, you got another Leo Club.
I'll find Omega.
However.
So from when do they start with the Lions Club?
Actually 18, but because you don't have a job, high paying job and so forth, not.
So that's why we have the Leo Club track being Omega.
Then up to 30, you can still be in a Leo Club and be affiliated with the Lions as well.
So the Lions Club is more when you have a professional career.
As we would say as of 30, but in principle legally as of 18.
OK, but why is that?
Because there's a high contribution or?
Yeah.
OK.
And you're an adult, kids, cubs, the whole formality.
Yeah.
Leos are still learning the LEEO, the leadership experience and opportunity.
So part of my journey was about 14 years ago, I became a lion.
I decided that moment that, OK, I'm ready.
I could have a long time ago.
Usually when you want to become a lion, you need to be sponsored.
So I had my dad sponsor me while a couple of other friends tried to get me in.
But I made it that my father, my father was my mentor and he would be my sponsor.
He would know better than him.
Yeah.
Right now he's 51 years in line.
So, I mean, however, two years later, I found my note three years, four years later, I found
myself in the track that I wanted to help the future.
So I now, as I used to be a Leo, now want to help the Leos.
So I became their advisor.
Yeah.
And then in 2018, we started a second club, one for 1318, one for 1830, because it was
together first.
Long and behold, nowadays, and we're not even talking about payments yet.
Long and behold, I was requested to lead the zone ABC islands to be in charge of the Leo
clubs.
So help them out and so forth.
And that happened for two years.
And now the district governor last beginning of the year said, David, jump on board and
be the Leo chair for the multiple districts.
Now, multiple district means that you got all of Florida.
Yeah.
The Bahamas, all of Florida, all of Florida.
Oh, wow.
The Bahamas, Aruba, Bonilla and Curacao.
That's that's a lot of people.
Yes.
But that's for the Leo clubs.
But for three years now, I've been on a board which organizes the Leo leadership forum.
It's six years in existence.
All the leaders from across America and Canada can come to it and leadership is instilled
in them.
Yeah.
And with that, I said, OK, let's do this.
And I noticed that in Florida, there's not many clubs.
And if there are, they're not really active.
But it needs an overhaul.
Yeah.
And over on the way, like Curacao and Aruba would be leading the world.
And over on the way, like Curacao and Aruba would be doing.
Because the club in Curacao, for instance, 39 years old.
The Lions would treat the Leos differently.
They would partner up with them and do a project.
Yeah.
The Leo club does community service, but they need to adhere to the LEDO, which they
they're not a community service project.
They are.
They get the training.
They get the leadership.
They get the team building and everything.
But they can only organize on their own two or three times a year to help the community
because the rest of the year they help the Lions club as well.
But they need to focus on themselves.
Yeah.
The learning curve.
With all this in 2014 sports betting in mind, CX Space started because there's a lot of
online gambling where merchants are registered and licensed in Curacao.
But no bank in Curacao wants to acquire, to accept payments, to offer payments acceptance
for Visa, MasterCard for those sports betting companies.
Yeah.
Long and behold, in 2016, we or 2015, November 2015, we said, you know what?
Forget it.
It's not going to work.
Let's do regular e-commerce.
So on the 3rd of January, we started with our first merchant in Curacao with e-commerce.
Our third merchant was a very small merchant at that moment.
They wanted to only process or had plans of processing five to six times a year.
Or had plans of processing $5,000 a month.
Yeah.
But nowadays they're processing more than over $800,000 a month.
A month.
Wow.
Our first client in Aruba was in November 2016.
And our first merchant in Saint Martin was in October 2016.
Oh, so for the Saint Martiners out there that have been constantly saying that the,
well, I was also one of them.
The online payment infrastructure is just absolutely not available on the island.
But you're saying that there was a option already in October 2016.
Yeah.
And why am I saying this this way?
For people to understand what e-commerce is all about,
it is a saying that in person, which is called card presence,
you have that card with you, it's present.
Now it needs to become card not presence because you don't see the person.
Yeah.
And that is the whole reason why it's not popular.
Not because a lot of people want to pay,
but the risk that you're doing business with somebody you don't know and you can't see.
Yeah.
People don't understand that.
And now comes my cap that sometimes people think and some passion might come out right now.
The journey of a thousand miles starts with a first step.
Yes.
And the cheap saying always is it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.
It's a marathon.
The same thing as studies.
If you don't study, you don't graduate.
Whatever you might have learned or not, it might not be intricate,
it might not be integral in what you're doing to do for the future.
Yeah.
Okay.
When we have algebra, when we're young, we don't know why we need it.
Now, the same thing with do you understand what a transaction is all about?
Now, if somebody is not in front of you, how do you know it's them?
One, two, how do you get the money from point A to point B?
No, point A to point B, no problem.
The risk that the bank is taking for the transaction is immense.
So security needs to be built on top.
And even with those securities, you still have the person saying, it wasn't me.
You're lovely.
So when you're saying the risk that the bank has to take,
is that because when a payment is made, the money may be transferred,
but it's not transferred as yet?
It might be somebody, what I really want to go to is that person that is in reality paying
might not be the real person.
Okay.
It might be your wife, it might be your cousin.
Yeah.
So somebody using your credit card to make an example.
Correct.
And then how, and then you need infrastructure to be able to reverse that.
It's basically, it's a catch-all.
That means you need to have the security in place and still somebody wants to charge back.
So why is it not readily available?
It is, but it's difficult to achieve.
Okay.
So banks usually think about the risk first instead of the opportunity.
Yeah.
Entrepreneurs think about the opportunity and the risk less.
Yeah.
So how does that go?
It doesn't.
Okay.
So long and behold, 2023, we now have, CXPay has 28 or 29 available countries and islands
for our clients.
With one of our more active merchants.
So of those 28, how many are in the Caribbean?
24.
We've got Costa Rica, we've got Canada.
So it means that most are in the Caribbean.
That means we have merchants in Barbados, Jamaica, Bahamas, BVI, the Dutch Caribbean.
It's not in how difficult or what expensive it is.
It is getting it done.
So our fifth or sixth merchant came to us and she was selling a cookbook.
Cookbook.
Yeah.
Caribbean Delights.
Curacao.
Caribbean Delights?
Which is Helmi Smoders.
Wait, don't we have that book?
I think we have that.
Is it like an orange company?
It has food on the cover.
So Helmi came to us and she's like, I need to sell this.
If not, it can't get to the Caribbean.
And we're like, okay, so we offered her and she says, oh, it's expensive, but it's a cost
of doing business.
She did it because the only way of her getting her book out there was to get it done no matter
how.
It doesn't matter if the client needs to pay, you need to pay.
It needs to matter that the book can get in somebody's house.
Yeah, exactly.
Because what was the other saying?
You got to pay the cost to be the boss.
Yeah, that's a good one.
So Helmi was like, she was maybe selling a book in every so many months.
Yeah.
Now, because she has still that merchant account, she's doing a pop-up events through it.
She's doing books.
She has a second book.
And that's what it's all about.
So we have several merchants.
Removing the friction and allowing the freedom of business to flow.
But you need to be open.
Yeah.
If you keep nagging on price and everything else, you're not going to start.
Yeah.
Because if that card that you would like, you would love.
Yeah.
Okay.
And we were talking about Lotus.
If you keep looking at the price, you would never achieve it unless you say, I'm going
to work for that price.
Yeah.
However, you would like to work for that price.
Yeah.
However, you would like to have it.
Yeah.
So why can't you have it?
If you keep saying the price is too expensive, you're never going to drive it alone.
Yeah.
It's always going to be too expensive.
Basically, what we have is a system where payments can happen.
So we're a gateway primarily, which makes the friction between the payments on the
websites where somebody can take out the card and pay and the bank possible.
Yeah.
So if we compare that to, let's say, because we also have listeners from the US as well
as the Netherlands or other parts of Europe, mainly in the diaspora, so those with roots
in the Dutch Caribbean, what would you compare it to then if you would take a US example or
a Dutch example?
Well, I would take Dutch being, let's say, a Mali.
However, Mali is an aggregator that sits below a bank.
Okay.
That kind of system doesn't work.
And you guys sit in between the banks and the merchants?
We're just, we're not handling the money.
The bank is responsible for the money.
Yeah.
We're not carrying the risk.
And the merchant has a merchant ID with the bank.
Yeah.
We're just saying, okay, we got a website that Shopify or it's WooCommerce or it's
Wix or whatever.
This is the merchant ID from the bank.
This is a translation to the website and commerce is being taken place.
Okay.
So, physically what you have now is that we're all over the Caribbean.
Yeah.
But we're maybe earning 50, 50 cents per hundred dollars.
The bank, however, is earning anywhere between $3,000.
$3,000 and $5,000.
So, anywhere between six to 10X what you guys earn.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, it's, we're not expensive.
It's the banking and then I'm coming and I don't want to step on any toes, but I have to.
Visa and MasterCard.
Is the passion coming out?
Yeah.
Totally maturity.
That's all David's passion here.
Disclaimer.
Visa and MasterCard have a cross border fee.
You're in, you've been in the States.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, your telco bill, your telecom bill.
Yeah.
You have a cell phone charge, which has minutes and you have a landline, which has minutes
and one is cheaper than the other.
Correct?
Yeah.
Okay.
So, we call that in, we call it a local line, an intra connection and an intra connection.
Interstate connection and the international connection.
One becomes more expensive than the other.
Yeah.
Because there's more switches in between.
Yeah.
That is also in the credit card world.
So, it physically means that Visa has a cross border fee from the US to Curacao
and it's Caribbean, no, it's Curacao.
So, it's costs you already anywhere between one and a half and two and a half percent,
depending on the volume that the bank does or has an agreement with, with Visa and MasterCard.
And that would be, because we have Visa and MasterCard issued from Korea.
But to acquire is one thing.
Yeah.
Issue is another.
So, one is having the card in your hands, the owner is accepting the payment for it.
Yeah.
So, e-commerce is a comparison of a card not present.
So, you can't see the person of the card present being the swipe machine.
Yeah.
So, the swipe machine also has its fees because Visa and MasterCard charge a cross border fee.
So, now…
And that's also why I have a MasterCard and I have American Express and many places they're like,
oh, we don't accept the American Express because their cross border fees are…
Not just that.
I'll give you the real deal.
Okay. Go ahead.
If you're a merchant, American Express doesn't honor the merchant but the client.
So, the client says, it wasn't me.
Okay, no problem. Check.
So, the merchant wouldn't want to have the process of an American Express be declined.
Not declined, but excuse me, charged back.
Charged back. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because if I make a purchase and then I say it wasn't me and then
they would have to go into battle to get their money.
Whereas with Visa, I would have to go into that battle.
With the card programs, American Express would back the user, not the merchant.
Yeah.
Visa and MasterCard would have security in place and do the battle.
You get two weeks to contest, you can show signatures and so forth.
Okay.
Okay, now, what you need to understand is…
People also told me there's also the fees that are more with American Express.
It used to.
Oh, not anymore?
No.
And we're talking about seven, eight years ago, it used to be.
So, it really comes down to just this part.
But let me…
So, either people are uninformed when they say these things up till recently
or they give me a 6.9.
Well, you heard it here, guys.
So…
There's another thing.
When physically e-commerce takes place, around the world, an example,
Germans use American Express more.
Visa and MasterCard less.
Yeah.
However, when you're traveling, I started going to travel now.
When you're traveling, don't you know that you have an American Advantage card
and a merit rewards card?
Yeah.
And they're labeled with Visa and MasterCard?
Yeah.
Those vanity cards, how do you think the points get paid?
I don't know.
Inform me.
The merchant.
Because the bank charges when a vanity card is being used.
The bank charges when a vanity card is being used.
So, like the Macy's Visa card is more expensive in charges to the merchants
than a regular plain Jane Visa or MasterCard.
Because the program that…
Oh.
You need to feed the program with the points.
The points need to be paid.
Oh, OK.
OK.
Well, then maybe there's still some truth in it.
Because actually my American Express is connected to Flying Blue of KLM with the points.
Yeah. OK.
Now, how do the points get paid?
Well, I guess that's how they get paid.
Exactly.
So, I'm getting educated.
That's another reason why everybody says credit cards are expensive.
Now, we're going to come to debit cards.
So, as of 2016, I was praying because there was always a notion that MasterCard would
stop with Maestro, pin debit, not debit, pin debit card, and that they would change over
into a debit card.
Remember, CIBC and across the region has a debit card.
You put it in, it says debit or credits or savings or currents.
Yeah.
Banco de Caribe changed theirs to a debit card as well now.
Yeah.
Orco Bank as well.
And they just took them in and gave the new ones, Fira Nova Bank as well and Curacao.
Now you have MCB Group rolling out their debit cards as well.
But that is lost, theft, stolen, broken, whatever.
That was replaced and any new ones going out will be a MasterCard debit.
But that will complete its mission in 2027.
So, MasterCard debit is then different from the Maestro.
It is the replacement of the Maestro.
So, are Maestro getting replaced worldwide or only here in the region?
Yes, stopped.
In Holland, VP is Visa debit.
And Maestro is MasterCard debit.
They all changed to Visa debit and MasterCard debit.
I got a double check down.
I double checked down my cards because I got a couple new ones recently.
Okay.
But at the program in the 1st of July, Holland started any new cards going out
would be a Visa or a MasterCard debit, not a VP or a Maestro.
It might have been just before the 1st of July.
But now what you can do is you can cut it and you can ask a new one,
but you got to pay a couple of dollars.
Yeah.
But what happens now is you can go on the same railing as the e-commerce.
On the same railing as the e-commerce.
Because it's a brand Visa and brand MasterCard.
It doesn't matter if you're a debit or a credit.
Oh, okay.
Now I get it.
So now we're talking since 2016 that we've been providing all these countries and islands
a solution where finally we can get onto the bandwagon where everything's accepted.
So you'll be able to fill in your information in a very similar way with that debit card
as you do now with the credit card.
And it has direct access to your card.
So you come from Holland.
Yeah.
You don't like credit.
Well, I don't talk about you personally, but the Dutch don't like credit.
The Americans do love.
The Dutch would come with a debit card.
And that money is directly from their checking accounts.
Yeah.
But it's a Visa and a MasterCard.
So everybody can use Visa and MasterCard.
We got the rails of Visa and MasterCard.
So that problem is now resolved.
So was this part of those financial standards that they changed up a few years back?
Which ones?
There are some new ISO standards that went into effect.
Could be because of security and how they get treated by GDPR, privacy.
There's a bunch of things that every week there's a new rule and regulation.
Yeah.
Interesting.
But we're the only ones in Curacao who have and now part of my passion comes out,
who legally offers the merchant a solution to accept payments in the payments of their own country.
And let me explain it.
Yeah.
It's called the local payment method.
Okay.
So local payment method in Holland is ideal.
Yeah.
Germany, software banking, Belgium, bank on top.
Yeah.
China Union pay in China.
Yeah.
7-11, Japan, Ello in Brazil, Baloto, Colombia.
And we have over a hundred payment methods that only CXPay in a legal way can offer the merchants.
Now.
So you guys can connect to those payments as well?
Yes.
Okay.
So then anyone from China, Japan, Netherlands, or even the United States,
they would be able to just use their own payment method to pay that merchant in Curacao.
Correct.
In Martin, Barbados.
Well, and then, and that's why I said the passion, because at that very moment, we're going to have an issue.
Because now comes the what and where we are in the financial industry and the status of it in the Caribbean.
So in the Caribbean, we got what? 36, 38 islands?
I think there's more.
We got a hell of a lot of islands.
We are treated every single island on its own.
Yeah.
We're not treated for the 27 million people we are in the Caribbean.
Yeah.
So that means like Apple Pay is not available because it's volume.
Yeah.
It's all about volume.
So what happens now?
So everybody wants to pay in the Caribbean.
So what happens now? So everybody wants what's out there.
But physically, that one payment system they edify so much is not willing to come into that country or islands.
Yeah.
We are able to do this.
Now, why do I say, why am I going here?
Okay.
So in the legal standing of all this, CXP is but a gateway.
We are waiting.
And here comes the compliment.
We are waiting in Curacao for five laws to be passed.
Yeah.
One of them is called the electronic money institution license.
And they're all at the RVA.
They're, excuse me, they're all at the WZ, which is the department looks at the laws before it goes to the RVA.
Yeah.
Not from the V's before they go to parliament before run.
In Simarn, most of them are already.
The RVA, RVA.
That's the last one before it.
WZ.
The WZ is the first one where the central bank then goes and sends the perspective law to them.
They look at it, make changes or not, and then send it over to the RVA.
And from the RVA, it goes to parliament.
Yeah.
Again, I'm not in that circuit.
I might have something wrong, but that's how I see it.
Yeah.
That's your perspective.
Yeah.
In 2020, when COVID started, we were in middle of COVID.
We, four of us, four Fintech companies in Curacao formed an alliance and we formed ourselves the Curacao Fintech Association.
And we were part of the movements which received from the central bank, same central bank as Simarn, these laws.
Or, excuse me, what they wanted to make a law.
Yeah.
And again, I'm not in that circuit, so my name, my naming of it is wrong.
We had insights and we looked at several of them.
And in the one which has an EMI, there were like 34 changes we made.
And from banks are being like, got a rock, red carpet, but Fintechs do not.
This one is wrong.
This one's this.
34.
Yeah.
17 of those got accepted and it went to your way.
So in Simarn, compliments, it's at the RBL.
So hopefully at the end of November, beginning of December, Parliament is going to vote on them.
Oh, awesome.
An example.
So that means that Simarn in that perspective might be slightly ahead of the curve there.
Yes, sir.
Trailblazing.
Yes, sir.
Congrats to Simarn there.
Because you got a real way out there already.
They could give me a license, but they're asking a bit too much for a Fintech company.
But then Simarn's next.
And what happens then is we can now offer these payments to whoever we want because we're going to carry the risk.
Coming back to the risk part of the bank.
So there's a lot of things which could go better.
And before we jump into that sticking on the Simarn end here, you guys are also collaborating on a project right now, right?
That's about to launch.
Well, by the time this video comes out, it would have already launched because we aren't airing until sometime in 2024.
Oh, OK.
So then we need to stop whatever I was speaking about and then I need to go to CXPay.
Now, CXPay has several services because the gateway doesn't earn because it's a volume based business.
We don't earn much.
We are left with little.
We need to go into the perspective.
We need to be in every moment where a transaction takes place.
That's only the way that we can create volume.
Yeah.
So in all the time we came with a GoFundMe solution.
And we have an account with the bank and we're providing like food venues and a couple other places or organizations offering a solution to do funds to collect funds.
OK, so like a GoFundMe crowdfunding solution.
And then in 2019, we started a cashless token solution being a digital token. So you in in Ireland, Europe know that you just go to a festival.
You give them money, swipe money, put on a wristband or on a card.
And then during the whole party, you can do events, you can tap and tap and go.
We have that solution. We made an immense, immense investment.
And then COVID said, how are you doing?
So end of 2022, we did our second or actually our third venue.
Yeah. And then we started back on track.
So cashless solutions we're doing right now.
We're actually I'm not going to say well, I can because it's going to go live.
But Mr. Rood has has a has a venue here and he is on our system providing physical tickets and online tickets with all our payment methods through CX events.
So there's CX events.
There's CXPay to fund.
CXPay to fund.
The pay to fund is a crowdfunding.
That is correct.
The donations based crowdfunding solution.
Yes.
The gateway is CXPay.
Yeah.
And then we have the fourth one, which is CXPayMe, which is a wallet.
Yeah.
And that's our own.
So for those familiar with what they have in the Netherlands or familiar with what they have in the States, that would be like the Tiki.
That's correct.
Or the Venmo in the States.
Is Cash App the same as Venmo?
It's more of the digitalization of the money instead of the convenience of having an app.
OK.
So CXPayMe has been created and the Ministry of Finance has supported it.
That's here in the in St. Martin.
That is correct.
And we are honoring the Ministry of Finance with the official launch.
Oh, awesome.
Instead of starting it in Curaçao because we mentioned it in Curaçao several times and one year in, one year out, etc.
So that's a bit of the stuff we spoke about off camera that sometimes the difficulties that we face as islanders that you're not always fully supported on your own island.
Correct.
It's like other islands would embrace you and your own island not.
Correct.
Exactly that.
So it is going to launch within the next few weeks.
But guys, let's change that shit.
So excuse my French, but let's change that, man.
Embrace your own as well as embrace our neighbors, the fundaments of the Leo Club and embrace the collaboration.
Because it's only together that we can really move these mountains and achieve these great things together.
So if we come with a payment app and it's called Sen, the only problem now lies with mass adaptation.
Yeah, for the people to actually use it.
Correct.
So then, of course, we have the unbanked in Curaçao, which need to have a way of payments.
Yeah, so the unbanked are persons that don't have a bank account or for whatever difficulties and reasons can't get a bank account.
Correct.
Yeah.
Or it's difficult.
But they would be able to use this application and sort of have a version of a mini bank account in this digital wallet.
That is correct.
And they can execute payments and everything.
So we will tie in a debit card with the system so people can do that international payments separately.
Yeah.
It'll have recurring payments.
It'll have scheduled payments.
It'll have group payments.
You pay with a QR code.
The QR code will say everything and anything.
It is not new.
We do have our own.
So we know payments.
So we came with this.
Nobody can tell us differently.
But the one thing that we try to specialize ourselves in is staying friends with the banking world.
Yeah.
Like crypto, a lot of people say disruption.
We're disruptive.
But we want to stay friends with everybody.
So we're going to do it anyway that banks can still earn.
The central bank still likes what we're doing.
Yeah.
And the solution is here.
Because you can beat me up.
I can go away and never come back.
And you're still with the same problem.
So it's either we do it right and we do it correctly and we help each other out.
Or we're going to scream 20 years later and say it didn't succeed.
So that's basically what when I want to speak out against either banks, merchants, central banks, so forth,
you need to understand.
And many times I was in conversations or presenting in front of people and they're like the central bank.
It's your money they're trying to protect.
Yeah.
Now I'm not talking about failures we had because those were also up of the central bank.
But the main focus is to make sure that the money of the community is safe.
Is safe and protected. Yeah.
And the banks get the rules and regulations to be and they need to and the central bank enforces that.
Yeah.
So it's the bank want to what they want to have the risk.
And then we come back to e-commerce.
So we're looking for a sponsor bank that we can do much more than what we're doing right now.
That we can be in charge.
Okay.
So we're connected directly to Visa.
We're using some of their products.
And in the coming weeks we're we're sending out more products.
Mastercard we're joining as well.
Hopefully in December.
And also with the same program that we're doing other products of theirs too.
So we're not only tied to one island, one bank, one this one that.
No.
Somebody wants to come with a bank to us and we have the compatibility.
Why not?
Yeah.
It's up to the bank to partner with us.
All right.
So it's all it's the ecosystem is all about acceptance.
And if you would like to partner up.
So it is tough.
There's a lot of money that needs to be processed.
Yeah.
And not always we get the solution.
It's frustrating I know.
But an example.
I keep telling people don't come to me when your site is ready.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Because the bank does take a while.
Yeah.
Or the financial institution takes a while.
And who knows if I'm compatible or not.
Yeah.
So we got Shopify.
We got Wokoners.
We got Wix.
From the time you have your initial business ideas and you have.
Well probably when they're in the process of really creating the site because then
when things get a bit more serious and a bit more.
You start to pass a conceptualization phase then they should be reaching out.
Exactly.
And getting that process going.
So by the time the site is ready then the payment rails would also be in place.
Correct.
Because there's more KYC in compliance before.
Yeah.
And KYC for those that don't know.
Know your customer.
Sorry.
But it's also the developers.
Yeah.
Sometimes a developer says that CXP is expensive.
Yeah.
Aren't you?
I mean everybody needs to earn.
Yeah everybody needs to earn money.
You got those two sons to feed and send to college as well.
The CXP team at the current moment is about six.
Yeah.
And you've been full time since when?
2019.
Since 2019.
OK.
So David.
I would love to continue talking on forever about this subject matter.
It interests me very much actually since I.
In 2019 and 2020 I actually created a personal finance course.
Also due to the fact that I went on my own personal journey and really understand in all the intricate details of my personal financial situation because I didn't grow up with that much to go around with.
So that was something that in my journey I had to figure out.
But so the subject matter interests me very, very much.
That's what I wanted to say.
It's difficult when you need to find yourself as well.
Yeah. Yeah.
So it's been a bit of that.
It took me six other industries before I got myself.
Yeah.
A bit of that combination.
But if we would now rewind the clocks and go back to 18 year old David.
And imagine that he was sitting here with us right now.
What words of advice would you have for him.
Actually what I would tell my lios.
Do what you love and love what you do.
Because you need to go into a direction which you at that moment think.
Yeah.
That you need to do or must do.
No.
Look at what you would like to do.
It's interesting.
Let me know.
And some of them do take a year sabbatical after school.
I sometimes like we never did that.
Yeah. Yeah.
But look do something which you would like and enjoy it afterwards.
Yeah.
Change up if you need to.
And parents maybe by might be killing me right now.
But a change of something.
But this is also beautiful advice coming from a parent.
Yeah.
So maybe some parents that are watching and that have kids in their teens or early adulthood.
Well I know they can't say don't teach people how to raise their kids.
But you can take some advice from.
If I'm not mistaken I might have over the last nine years had at least 40 to 60 lios.
And they're all doing really well because they're focusing on what they love what they like what they're really interested in.
And they're able to excel at that.
And the only thing I want is for them to either come back or become a better human being or leader in the future.
Because I do believe that when you have when you do what you love or you or you go into the things that you're really interested in you.
And you're working on the things that you really like when the challenges come because the challenges will always come.
It doesn't matter what you get into.
You will have challenges.
You will have.
I don't like to use the word problem.
So I only say challenges obstacles etc.
But when you're faced with these things if you truly love what you're doing or you really like and you're really interested in it.
That will give you the power and the motivation to continue and burst through those those brick walls and and excel further.
And there's one sometimes they say it's used usually in multi-level marketing.
Just over broke this job.
Don't look at don't look at as a job because you do something you love.
You never work a day in your life.
Yeah.
And these days sometimes I would love to be in the office because if not this rain and the phone and its own inconvenience while at the office.
Everything's there.
Yeah.
But trust me when I say it if you don't like what you're doing and you really must do it find something else.
Yeah.
And I've I've I've done it.
I love food and beverage.
So I got out of it because I've had 27 hour work days.
I came in three o'clock in the afternoon.
Let me get my calculator.
Twenty seven hours 24 hours in a day.
I came in at three o'clock in the afternoon and I left 27 hours later.
Wow.
Yeah.
And that was the second of January 1994.
And then you said no more.
Afterwards.
Correct.
I went to pizza address Texel.
I went to other places.
Yeah.
Well for me it is.
Enjoy it.
And I make the mistake.
And sometimes I need to pull myself out.
Stop talking about payments.
Enjoy your life.
And that's sometimes a difference aspect which I now need to switch.
And I think today we didn't.
The we back channel spoke and speak something about payments.
I don't think so.
No not that much.
No.
happy that Smile is around and we helped as well with the tickets scenario.
Yeah, that was amazing. I remember when I first saw online that you guys collaborated
with EFE on the project and that was then the first time that the payments, well that
we could have the events and payments be done online in St. Martin. That was a premiere.
Funny story there is, so EFE was my first podcast guest and it took a while also for
me to get everything arranged behind the scenes, get the right people in place and set up things
so that we can start releasing on a consistent basis. Her event was June 30th and the podcast,
which was the first episode, came out June 30th. In that podcast, she also described
the need for these payments to be physically possible on the island and that this is absolutely
needed and then funny enough when the podcast launched, she kind of forgot that she said
those words but that was the day that you guys launched the…
Smile?
No, no, no.
The events?
The Islandpreneur.
The Islandpreneur event and did the first online payment for the event tickets.
Yeah, it gets everybody out of their comfort zone.
So it was like a full circle moment. So I definitely was interested to collaborate on
Smile with that and then when we had the pre-event in Curaçao with the Chamber of Commerce, then
before I was even able to ask you, John, what are you talking about? Let's get this thing
done. So I'm happy we got it done, man.
Yeah.
David, thank you so much for coming.
Thank you.
So enjoy the island. I know you're from a beautiful island as well, but hey, you're
on another beautiful island. So enjoy your time here. I'll definitely be seeing you
at Smile in the coming days and continue doing great and amazing things, continue advocating
for entrepreneurs throughout the Caribbean to give them the chance that they haven't
been able to get for many, many years.
It's accepting it also. I want it, but I want it. But it's like everything has a but behind
it.
Yeah. Yeah. But I think that but is just part of the overall Caribbean mindset. And that's
something that we as Caribbean entrepreneurs need to continue to educate each other on
that at the end of the day, there's a cost of doing business.
But everything's here. And you come from a from a country where I usually say you're
10 years ahead of us. But a couple of years, a couple of days ago, a couple of weeks ago,
I found that the US had a perfect example why they're five years behind us. Yeah, they
still write checks. Oh, they still write in checks in the US and they still go to one
bank do a cashier's check. Oh, wow. And deposit it manually into the other bank.
Oh, wow. Okay. So we're quite modern compared to the US in some aspects, but we can do that.
Yeah. Yeah. So any any last words, David?
John keep on keep on striving. And I really thank you and Claire as well. A Saint Martin
or an Arubian and now a Curacao. And this is all this is all Dutch Caribbean. We need
to be partners as well. Partners in crime. Yep. And partners in time. We need to give
each other the time and effort and collaborate. Yeah, we have a past which crosses each other
and we need to be on the same path. We enjoy certain things which are the same. We need
to keep that alive. Yep. Yesterday when I was giving giving a spiel in front of a lot
of other people, I was like, guys, I'm just a Curacao and I have the solution. Can you
please embrace it? I also feel sometimes that when people from the outside see you and embrace
you and your own item doesn't, I feel it and we need to stop that procrastination. Yeah.
We need to collaborate with each other. That's one of the things and we have four companies
we collaborate with on a daily basis for payments. Yeah. The rest needs to do it too. When you
don't understand payments, ask. Yeah. Don't assume. And especially John, you are in Europe
and you are among so many things that I would wish to have. Wish. But we make our own thing.
Yeah. Accepting and sharing and collaborating. Those are the three words that I keep telling
and even the Leos I tell our future generations as parents, I say, give them what they need,
not what they want. Yeah. Give them what they need. What they need. And leave them figure
out what they want and help them with support them. Support them in what they want. Yeah.
Give them what they need and support them in what they want. I really I take my hat
off especially how the progress has gone with St. Martin after the hurricane. Yeah. And
my uncle, my wife is living here in the island as well and sometimes I hear of the hardship.
Yeah. Of hurricane, post-hurricane as well when hurricane comes. Yeah. And I also said
said told Ife a couple of years ago, I might come to St. Martin but as soon as the hurricane
is here, the first one out. I live very comfortably where I am right now. Yeah. And I understand
you guys. I understand St. Martin. I want to help. Physically I'm here. I'm more than
just I'm front row and center without my family, without my business. Guys, I'm here for you.
And I thank you John for this opportunity. But hey, listeners back home on the iPads,
the telephones, the TVs, the computers, etc. Thanks for tuning in. Please like and subscribe.
We are going to continue to bring you amazing content with amazing guests that have great
and awesome stories and hopefully continue to inspire you and many others to excel in
whatever it is that you want to do while this might help support what you need to do. Thank
you and with that we're out. Bless.