1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,000 People, welcome to the Sunside Kingdom show here with another episode in season two. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,800 I'm super excited, man. 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:17,540 I have with me David Levy, Levy Maduro. 4 00:00:17,540 --> 00:00:22,040 This man has been a pioneer in the payment space. 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:23,360 We met a few years back. 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:33,320 I actually met his business partner a few years before that and has been advocating for online payments throughout the Dutch Caribbean. 7 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:42,120 And I believe actually throughout the greater Caribbean for the greater part of the past decade. 8 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,360 So innovation is something that we love here. 9 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:56,440 And we're going to get into some innovative talks with Mr. David Levy Maduro. 10 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:03,360 Welcome to the Sunside Kingdom show. 11 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:09,160 Thank you to Sapphire Beach Club for sponsoring the location of this episode. 12 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,480 Welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Don. How are you? 13 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,520 Let's just say I'm not tired. I'm excited. Nice. 14 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,320 We've got the Smile Conference coming up. 15 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:24,720 And for me, it's only a pleasure when we can talk about not just payments, but innovation. 16 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:31,080 Yeah. One of the words I heard somebody say a couple of months ago and I kept using it. 17 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,120 Innovation knows no history. 18 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,960 And we all need to think about the future. 19 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:41,160 Yeah. And what do we need in the future? 20 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:42,440 We don't know yet. Yeah. 21 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:47,000 We want to get there and make sure that not everything's tied up and everything's good to go. 22 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,840 And then you find out payments. 23 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,880 So let's rewind the clock a bit and let's go back to the early days. 24 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,800 Where did David grow up? 25 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,840 Well, I'm born and raised in Curacao. 26 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:03,560 Yeah. 27 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:09,160 In Papua we say, my umbilical cord is in Curacao. 28 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,640 Yeah. We say that too in Zmar, then. 29 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:22,040 I do have a I'm Jewish and I'm part of the Jewish culture in Curacao, which goes back generations. 30 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:27,280 And I don't know when a lot of like six generations in Curacao. 31 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:28,240 Yeah. With our family. 32 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,880 So I know that my grandmother was born in Curacao. 33 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,560 I am. But my mother's side is from Holland. 34 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:37,240 OK. 35 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:43,080 So basically growing up as a younger brother. 36 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,840 Yeah. And I had my sister. 37 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:45,880 So how many siblings? 38 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:51,080 I have one sister. She's four years older than I am living in Holland. 39 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,080 And she has a son and 25 years old. 40 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,360 I'm his godfather. 41 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:00,920 Godfather, correct. 42 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:02,440 The piet oom, right? 43 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:03,160 What do you say in Dutch? 44 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:04,040 Pietvader. 45 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:04,680 Pietvader. 46 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,200 Yes. 47 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:15,480 And basically at I think around 14, 15 years old, I started with leadership courses. 48 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,760 Got sent out to McGonagall, Wisconsin. 49 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:21,960 Where? 50 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:28,760 McGonagall, Wisconsin, where I went for a chapter leadership course for the B'day Birth Youth Organization. 51 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:29,320 Yeah. 52 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:34,760 And I think at that moment, my leadership kicked in. 53 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:40,600 How to become a better leader, how to act as a leader, how you're supposed to do a board meeting, how you need to conduct a meeting. 54 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,000 So all of that you learned in college? 55 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,520 No, at 14, 15. 56 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,000 Oh, this was this was high school. 57 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:54,440 Yeah. And this was more because Curacao doesn't have much to offer. 58 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,400 Or in the Caribbean, usually you go out to the States or Latin America or Holland. 59 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:00,440 Or the Dutch Kingdom. 60 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,720 So you do that, but then you come back and now what? 61 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:10,600 So I was also because my dad is a lion for 51 years old. 62 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:17,480 And you'll have to give the people a little bit more background for those that don't know about the Lions Club. 63 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:24,040 So the Lions Club is a service club, community service club, kind of like the Kiwanis, the Rotary and so forth. 64 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,440 So my father is a lion now for 51 years. 65 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,120 He's a life member as well. 66 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:35,240 But you are a cub, a cub of a lion. 67 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,480 And as a cub, I used to partake in community service projects with the Lions. 68 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:51,800 I used to go with my parents and help out programs like the Boombi Sina, where we teach the kids in Curacao or in schools, teach them how to be a good neighbor. 69 00:04:51,800 --> 00:05:00,040 So that means you would need to make sure to come with a can around the December month, November, December month. 70 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,080 So a can of goods. 71 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:08,600 So the Lions would pick that up, put it in a bag and give somebody who doesn't have it very well that they could have a better Christmas. 72 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,920 Yeah. So that is to teach the kids. 73 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,480 And from that moment on, I liked it a bit how to help the community. 74 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,320 And around 18 or 19, I joined the Leo Club. 75 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,080 L as in leadership, E as an experience and O as an opportunity. 76 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,600 Now, Sir Martin has two Leo Clubs as well. 77 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,080 So there's a difference between the Lions Club and the Leo Club. 78 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:29,560 That's correct. 79 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:37,560 The Lions Club has the Leo Club as a kind of like, let's set a tone for the future. 80 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,880 So let's teach the future. 81 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,280 Let's give tools to the future. 82 00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:43,960 That's the Leo's Club or the Lions Club? 83 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:44,440 The Leo's. 84 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:45,000 The Leo's. 85 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:45,240 OK. 86 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:52,760 So that's like you have childhood cancer, you got environment, you got eyesight, you got several, you got five pillars. 87 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,000 One of them is the youngsters. 88 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:55,320 OK. 89 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,280 Being the Leo Club. 90 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:56,680 Yeah. 91 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,840 So we have Leo Clubs, we sponsor Leo Clubs. 92 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:01,080 And I was a Leo myself for four years. 93 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:03,240 Was a president. 94 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:10,840 We even did the international convention about 200 and some Leos that came from around the region, from around the world, came to Curacao. 95 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:15,960 However, at 19, I decided that I flunked out of school again. 96 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:16,440 Yeah. 97 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,440 There's a long story, but OK. 98 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:25,720 And I started working because as a 14 or 15, I was kind of like earning my wage already or extra sacralte. 99 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,560 Where I would like to buy something or do something. 100 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,640 And I would work as a waiter, but like a lot of kids do. 101 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:34,200 Yeah. 102 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,120 But I made it a profession out of it. 103 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,120 But that was back in Curacao, right? 104 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:39,400 Because you so. 105 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,000 I never left the unit. 106 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,680 OK, so the time that you spent in the States was more like a summer camp. 107 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:45,720 There was a two week program. 108 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:46,760 Oh, two week program. 109 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,280 OK, got you. 110 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:51,960 I'm kind of like jumping around and mind you, I know it's OK. 111 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,680 I told you also before we started that I'm a person that has a lot of passion. 112 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,080 And when I get too passionate, I get excited. 113 00:06:59,080 --> 00:06:59,560 Yeah. 114 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,000 So I'm not going to. 115 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,640 I've experienced passionate David a couple of times. 116 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,000 I get passionate about several things, but not that much. 117 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,240 Not that it scares everybody, but when I set the tone, 118 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,640 when I'm really imminent and passionate about something, I'm not to be stopped. 119 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:18,600 Oh, nice. 120 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:24,120 However, at 19, I flunked out and I had to get a job. 121 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:25,000 Yeah. 122 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:29,560 I also moved out and I went into my own studio, paid my. 123 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,280 I went into a loan and paid my car, second hand car Suzuki. 124 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,520 And from there on, I started working. 125 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:38,840 Yeah. 126 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:39,480 Food and beverage. 127 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,720 Because of the experience I had already, I got a chance to start as a supervisor 128 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,080 in the Sonest Hotel in Curacao. 129 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,160 So I was I got training from Sonest. 130 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:52,680 So that's Sonest Hotel. 131 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:58,920 That's one of the partner or previous partners of the one here in St. Martin as well. 132 00:07:58,920 --> 00:07:59,240 Yes. 133 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:00,520 Same thing as in King Bridge. 134 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:05,560 And they had a couple of cruise ships and they had a couple in Miami as well. 135 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:07,720 Keep a skating film, I'm saying. 136 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,680 So what physically happened was that you got training, like Marriott trains 137 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,600 of people and Hilton trains of people. 138 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,480 Sonest did as well, standard operational procedures. 139 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:17,720 Yeah. 140 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,920 So what I got in me was a lot of training. 141 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:27,080 One and a half year in, two years in, I won a scholarship of Feifeik. 142 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,560 That was the local hotel school we had. 143 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:29,800 OK. 144 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:36,200 And I won a summer course at Hoogeschool, Hoge Hotel Valkshoek, Den Haag. 145 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,520 So I went for two months. 146 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:39,000 OK. 147 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,320 So we upgraded from two weeks to two months. 148 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:42,840 Now I got a training for two months. 149 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,120 I think at that moment that would be around 90. 150 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,480 Yeah, it could be that I would be in my 21st, 22nd year. 151 00:08:53,480 --> 00:09:00,200 The course that I took was food and beverage management. 152 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:05,720 However, and I can look back and say that is when I could trace back 153 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,920 that what I'm using right now, what I used to do, all comes together. 154 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,200 Because I was doing something and maybe you'll hopefully you'll learn something new. 155 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,680 There's something called food and beverage that not everybody knows about, 156 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:24,680 even though it could be a Chandon or Tissier or whatever Michelin star, whatever. 157 00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:25,240 Yeah. 158 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,560 There's something called menu engineering. 159 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:30,360 And manipulation. 160 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:30,840 OK. 161 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,120 So I lost. 162 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,960 I was always bad at numbers. 163 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:34,520 Yeah. 164 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,760 But I was on Lotus one, two, three. 165 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,520 That's way back when on Lotus one, two, three. 166 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:43,960 That's before Excel. 167 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:45,720 Oh, whoa. 168 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:51,800 When you mentioned Lotus, I talked about the car. 169 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,680 What Lotus is he talking about? 170 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:57,800 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 171 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,960 That's way, way, way, way. 172 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:01,800 Black screen with the yellow and the pink. 173 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:08,200 So we made an unfloppy this three, three, three and a half inch desks. 174 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,840 We made a software where the cost control would go all the way from the recipe would 175 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,760 be broken down into the ingredients and the ingredients would be will be purchased. 176 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:22,680 The first price we put in the menu item would then have a cost price. 177 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:28,440 So this is what you were doing as a as a as a waiter side gig. 178 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,040 I learned I went to this course. 179 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,120 So what what I loved was this. 180 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,880 Oh, in those two months. 181 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:34,680 In those two months. 182 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,720 I learned a lot more, but that triggered triggered and stayed with you. 183 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,720 So I learned how to manipulate the menu. 184 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,360 Bring down the price of meat. 185 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,440 Bring up the price of a nice red wine. 186 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:49,080 Yeah. 187 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,320 But bring up the price of chicken and fish. 188 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:52,520 So you would have that meat. 189 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:53,720 You would have the bottle of wine. 190 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:55,320 You would spend more money. 191 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,320 And in the end, the profit and loss would be better. 192 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:57,880 Yeah. 193 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:58,600 Yeah. 194 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:05,720 So what I did was I put that into practice when I was also in other industries that I 195 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:06,200 worked out. 196 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:13,160 So on ninety five or ninety six, I left the Sinesta and just before the Marriott took 197 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:18,200 over, I helped the food and beverage manager back then for a few months for the transition. 198 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,880 However, I found myself without a job. 199 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:27,560 And that was after I worked for Pizza Hut, Texas, La Paria and also La Pergola restaurants. 200 00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:29,640 So this is all in the food and beverage. 201 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:30,120 Correct. 202 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:30,440 Yeah. 203 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:37,160 I found myself lost and I did a little bit of ICT web development, but then bring up 204 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:37,720 the money. 205 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:38,280 Yeah. 206 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,520 So I found myself a bit lost. 207 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:48,680 And then I found myself as a clerk, a phone clerk at a sports betting sports betting, 208 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:50,120 a call center in Curacao. 209 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:59,000 But the call center, they did this for Curacao itself or was where were the client base? 210 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,560 The client's base was in the United States and in Europe. 211 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:02,120 OK. 212 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,320 So we would handle the bets, the football bets, baseball bets and so forth. 213 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,480 But then I grew into the organization, knew the owner very well. 214 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:12,040 Yeah. 215 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,200 And then I moved into accounting. 216 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:16,520 Don't ask me how or why. 217 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,080 I hate the numbers, but I was in charge of the money. 218 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:20,680 OK. 219 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,480 So food and beverage, sports betting. 220 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:24,680 Now we in accounting. 221 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:31,000 So we well, I guess a sports betting and accounting, there's a sort of a correlation, 222 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,560 but we're almost tackling three different industries here. 223 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:37,480 No, because I said ICT and web development as well. 224 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,360 So we already got four and this is by age. 225 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,120 Twenty eight, twenty seven. 226 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:51,480 So in principle, and I told you a secret about me already that I have more than just those 227 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:52,040 three or four. 228 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:59,160 So I found myself suddenly at the receiving and the sending side of the monies of the 229 00:12:59,160 --> 00:12:59,720 sports betting. 230 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,280 Yeah. Then everybody knows PayPal. 231 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:05,480 I know PayPal when they started. 232 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:05,960 Yeah. 233 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:12,520 And they had sports betting, had a accounts where you can pay out and pay in. 234 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,680 Then suddenly the US said, I don't love that. 235 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:18,040 It stopped. 236 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,000 But then the start of Neteller started. 237 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,840 Neteller never heard of that. 238 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,360 Well, in the sports betting world, Neteller is the number one or Paysafe is the number 239 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,400 one company. 240 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,440 In Europe, doing the ins and outs for the sports betting world. 241 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:30,920 OK. 242 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:37,160 But then that's how I think because at that moment I was also creating my first in 98. 243 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,960 I created my first e-commerce site in Curacao in 98. 244 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:42,600 In 98. 245 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:43,720 That's really early. 246 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:52,040 That was physically 16 steps before you had one product on the website with a buy not 247 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:52,520 button. 248 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,480 minutes of work. 249 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:57,560 Yeah. 250 00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:00,280 Shopify account, pop up, drag drop. 251 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:00,840 Correct. 252 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:06,840 So at that point, the e-commerce started kicking in. 253 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,360 I found myself not really earning a good buck. 254 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,880 I met my wife in 94 and things got a little tough. 255 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:21,080 And what I did was in 97, 97, 98. 256 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:28,280 In 97, 98, I went because the owner of the sports betting company invited me to take 257 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,120 a course in telecom auditing. 258 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,880 So I went to Fort Lauderdale and I learned how to audit telecom bills. 259 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:37,960 Telecom bills. 260 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:43,080 So if you would see an Internet pipeline or 15 pots, 15 lines that you need to pay 261 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:43,720 for on the bill. 262 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:50,520 A company we would work for a company would be auditing the telecom company for that 263 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,000 company. 264 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,960 So I would come to company A and I would look at their telephone bill, the telecom 265 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,760 bill, and it would say 48 telephone line spots. 266 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,360 And I would go and call every single line and see if they're working. 267 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,640 Have you ever had where you call somebody or a company and they don't pick up? 268 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:08,440 It's an empty ring. 269 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:08,840 Yeah. 270 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,240 You hang up, you pick up and you call again and suddenly you get the PBX, which has the 271 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,280 voice and everything else. 272 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:21,720 That line I used to go after, take it off from the instance that there was a report 273 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,360 or no report from the start of the contract. 274 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,360 Get that back as a refund and get forward savings as well. 275 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,320 Because if you haven't used it all this time, you can save. 276 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,440 However, in the U.S. you got the FCC. 277 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,800 So you pick up the line when somebody says I'm not when a telecom company says no, 278 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:40,360 thank you. 279 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:40,520 Yeah. 280 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,880 But then this I would like I wanted to do in Curazon same thing. 281 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,200 I would go to a telecom company in Curazon and say, Martin, and it didn't work. 282 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,720 Real telecommunication wasn't back there. 283 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,680 Oh, oh, that payroll or or not in that capacity that I could pick up the phone and start 284 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:57,480 ranting and raving. 285 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:05,480 However, going to the U.S. and getting a permit to stay in the U.S. is are two different 286 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,040 things. 287 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:06,440 Yeah. 288 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,840 So I started in 2005. 289 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:14,120 I was a sales manager at a auto industry company, auto sales company in Curacao. 290 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,880 It was part of a bigger group. 291 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,680 So I started selling as a sales and marketing manager. 292 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,120 I started selling cars. 293 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:20,680 Yeah. 294 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,040 So the food and beverage what I had and now in cars. 295 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,240 But remember, I said that the menu engineering manipulation brought me to several points 296 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,680 where OK, so I brought it actually to the minibars. 297 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,800 I would be a minibar manager in the Senes Hotel. 298 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:37,320 Yeah. 299 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,920 So I would be a manager in the hotel. 300 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:39,720 We see a minibar. 301 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,600 The first thing we do is not drink or not eat because it's too expensive. 302 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:43,240 Yep. 303 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,880 So how about me doing an inquiry and seeing what does sound, what doesn't sound? 304 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,600 And I put more of the inexpensive products. 305 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,160 Yeah. 306 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,720 So you buy more, you eat more, you drink more. 307 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,960 And in the end, I earn more. 308 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:56,440 Yeah. 309 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,120 Not I, the company I work for. 310 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,920 So that same thing I was going to put now in the car industry. 311 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,680 However, we were more in the supermarket business kind of for selling cars. 312 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,760 That's at a fraction of the price in earnings. 313 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,280 So were these cars secondhand cars or brand new cars? 314 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:13,160 New ones. 315 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:18,840 So it was Chevy and Honda, Cadillac, Hummer and a few other brands. 316 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,280 So I did the sales market. 317 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:26,920 So I remember and I'm going to say I told you a couple of minutes ago, but Trevor of Kiko the Kiko, 318 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,040 we had him in as well. 319 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,480 And he came with a let's do a video and let's go on the internet. 320 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,640 And back then, the internet wasn't that popular like now. 321 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,120 And because this is what 2005. 322 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,960 2005 was in the car industry doing sales and marketing. 323 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:42,440 Yeah. 324 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:48,600 So in 2006, we had the first websites on the island or actually in the Dutch Caribbean 325 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,080 to sell cars and also videos. 326 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,800 So we had the videos and the pictures that Trevor took in his program and we put it in there. 327 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:58,600 Nice. 328 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:04,760 So after 12 years, I don't want to say I got promoted, but I started doing not just sales 329 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:09,800 and marketing more, but I started doing more things for the whole thing that I was with. 330 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,360 So more like business development? 331 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:17,400 No, it was more into make sure that the social media channels, the websites, 332 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,960 I know that started working for the other channel. 333 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,960 So for rental cars and so forth. 334 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,480 But it was always missing something. 335 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:31,000 Since I did that one website with e-commerce, payments was part of that journey that we all 336 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,800 know if we're in marketing, you cannot close a customer journey until you have a payment. 337 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:36,520 Yep. 338 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,960 So I tell most of my merchants, you're going to you're going to crash mid cycle in the customer 339 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:42,520 journey. 340 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:50,280 And if you if you have a chance to reserve a car and you have a chance to pay for it, 341 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,840 the one you pay for has 99% insurance that you're going to come. 342 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:55,400 Yeah. 343 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:01,320 If you haven't paid for it, you got 990, 40% chance that you're not going to take it. 344 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:02,360 You're going to take another deal. 345 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:02,920 Yeah. 346 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,760 So and it's like that everywhere. 347 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,920 So in 2014, if I may interject. 348 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,840 So for those at home that may be wondering like, what are they talking about with this 349 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,520 customer journey? 350 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:28,280 The customer journey is essentially the journey that a customer goes through when they don't 351 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:33,160 know that you exist to the moment that they become an ambassador for the product that 352 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,440 they've purchased. 353 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:35,800 And you have several steps. 354 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:44,440 So you have the initial trigger phase where you're triggered by ad or a friend told you 355 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,080 etc. 356 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,360 Then you have the attraction phase. 357 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:57,320 So there's where well, the avalanche, the video experience attracts you to want to know 358 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:57,960 more. 359 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:03,720 Once you're attracted, then you want to find all the information that you need in order 360 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,800 to make your decision to purchase. 361 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,840 And then you have the purchase in part, which is super important. 362 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:14,600 So if you can't make that purchase happen seamlessly, then you basically lose a customer 363 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:15,640 at that point. 364 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,760 Then the fifth step, I believe, is usage. 365 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:24,840 So once you actually have the product and you're using the product and you might have 366 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:31,240 questions, etc. or needs improvement, support needed, etc. 367 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,240 So like usage support, five, six. 368 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,560 And then the last step is ambassador. 369 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:36,200 Yeah. 370 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,600 So in that final step, then you essentially become the trigger for someone else. 371 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:40,920 Yeah. 372 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,240 And they go through the customer journey as well. 373 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:43,800 Yeah. 374 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:49,320 So for me, it was a marketing one on one for you folks. 375 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,160 So I had sales and marketing, I had food and beverage, which is service oriented. 376 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:58,760 I had the cost analysis menu manipulation, the e-commerce parts. 377 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,880 And because of it, I come from a from my background is quite integral. 378 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:10,680 Hard work, hard labor, never killed someone and roll up your sleeves and get dirty. 379 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:18,600 I mean, I would grab my bike and I would, I think, go eight kilometers, nine kilometers 380 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:19,400 to a party. 381 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,040 It would start at 12 o'clock, work as a bartender. 382 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,040 And at seven o'clock in the morning, take the bike and go home again. 383 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,560 In the islands. 384 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:28,680 On the islands. 385 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,280 If it rained or not. 386 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:37,480 I mean, that's more likely in the Netherlands, but not in the islands. 387 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,560 I don't know if on Curaçao is more likely, on St. Martin is definitely not. 388 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:47,000 The roads in Curaçao also sometimes are not the best, but it is more of the journey that 389 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,880 you take the strive that you need to do something to get the job done. 390 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:52,520 Yeah. 391 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:58,840 And for me, it was also one of the defining moments in my career. 392 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:04,440 One of the defining moments which brought me to 2014 when CXP started. 393 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:14,600 I remember I was there for 94 and we married in 99 and 2000 again because first in front 394 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,320 of the government and then in the synagogue. 395 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,840 And we decided when we wanted to have the kids. 396 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,720 It was not a, oh, it's there. 397 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,720 No, we planned accordingly. 398 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,960 I don't want to say I want to be proud of it, but I just did. 399 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:36,200 It's strange sometimes how we still at this age think about the several points in your 400 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:41,080 life where you decided on something instead of the spur of the moment. 401 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:41,480 Yeah. 402 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:49,400 And right now Nathan is becoming 22 and Daniel's 18 already. 403 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,720 And I keep looking at him and I'm like, wow. 404 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:59,880 Either I see myself in it or I wish I could have their life because sometimes it's not 405 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,200 about what you didn't have, but what you're going through. 406 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,800 And I'll give an example with Leo Club. 407 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,880 Nathan is in the Leo Club right now, I think six years and Daniel not. 408 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,640 Daniel doesn't want to even become a Leo. 409 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,000 He's not interested at all. 410 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:22,120 No, but he's the first one to come in line and tell you, let's go help. 411 00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:29,160 When he was a kid in group three, and we had Bon Bessinia, he would. 412 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,280 What was Bon Bessinia? 413 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,400 Bon Bessinia is a good neighbor project for the food for any other year. 414 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,720 He would come with me and we would pack. 415 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:38,040 Yeah. 416 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:44,520 And I, as a cub as well, back in that age as well, I would jump into a big crate where 417 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,280 all the cans are dumped in and I would stand there and I would grab them and put them on 418 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,760 the line and the lines would pass by and one here and two of this and one of this and put 419 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,480 them in all the bags and move on to the next crate. 420 00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:57,480 He was doing the same thing. 421 00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:00,200 Nathan was doing the same thing and I was like. 422 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,720 This is this is nice. 423 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,320 I my father planted it to me and I planted it to them. 424 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:14,280 However, when he was, I think in when he was eight years old. 425 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:14,840 Yeah. 426 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:22,840 Eight years old, he invited or maybe even seven, he invited his teachers of the group 427 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:23,560 three and four. 428 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,120 He would invite them to a night that we would be doing this. 429 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:28,840 Okay. 430 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:29,560 Collections. 431 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:29,800 Yeah. 432 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:38,120 Which triggered the teachers to experience this food collection and bags doing putting 433 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:38,840 stuff in the bags. 434 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:39,080 Yeah. 435 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,880 It didn't matter for me at that moment what my son wanted. 436 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,880 My son was helping and planting those seeds for others to do this too. 437 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,000 You do with a teacher. 438 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,320 What does the teacher do the next day? 439 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,120 They teach it to the others and to the kids to the future. 440 00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:56,680 Yeah. 441 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:57,000 Yeah. 442 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,040 And that happens. 443 00:24:58,920 --> 00:24:59,400 Okay. 444 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:05,000 So when and so then it went from being his special thing to be in the teacher. 445 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:11,880 And so it's the experience, the community service, the helping. 446 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:18,920 So I think when Daniel was 12 or 13, he had a chance to join the Leo club. 447 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:19,160 Yeah. 448 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,000 Didn't want to. 449 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:27,080 And at that moment, didn't want to meant, oh, okay. 450 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,840 But he would and mind you, and this is the truth. 451 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,880 When the kids need to come with the with the with packets to school, we would collect them. 452 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,960 We had purchased a bag of stuff. 453 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,160 He would take it to school. 454 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:43,400 Yeah. 455 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:49,320 The next day, he had another bag with stuff in it to go to school. 456 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:50,440 I'm like, did you forget yesterday? 457 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:50,920 No. 458 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:52,840 Did you go with it yesterday? 459 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:53,320 Yes. 460 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,280 So what's that? 461 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,560 Nobody else came. 462 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:56,680 So I came with it. 463 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,440 Oh, I'm like, wait a moment. 464 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,040 Where's that from? 465 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,040 It's like from the cabinet. 466 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,360 I'm like, from what we purchased. 467 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:07,960 So now we not need to go to the supermarket again to do our week's purchase. 468 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,160 It's like, yep. 469 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,120 And at that moment, I said, you don't need to be a Leo to have learned how to help others. 470 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:14,760 Exactly. 471 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,520 But that's exactly the good neighbor. 472 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,960 Now, Nathan, on the other hand, he's very outgoing and he's and he's the one who wants to. 473 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,960 He must say he said he wants to become and he wants to go ICT. 474 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:27,640 I said, or what else? 475 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,960 He says, psychology, that don't fit. 476 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:33,560 I can imagine. 477 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:33,960 Go ahead. 478 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,320 And he's doing really well. 479 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,920 But he's the one with the friendship and he likes to meet and this and that. 480 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,920 And I see myself a lot in both of them. 481 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:43,160 Yeah. 482 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,600 But not all of myself. 483 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,120 Yes, different parts. 484 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:46,920 That's correct. 485 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:47,320 Yeah. 486 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:47,960 So why? 487 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,400 That is the beauty of kids. 488 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,120 So what? 489 00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:51,240 Why did I say this? 490 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,040 Because my why? 491 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:59,400 My why has not been formed yet. 492 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,000 Your why? 493 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:01,720 My why. 494 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:02,680 Your purpose. 495 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:03,400 That is correct. 496 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,520 OK, interesting. 497 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,880 I'm still at 52. 498 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:06,120 Yeah. 499 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:07,400 Still trying to define it. 500 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:15,320 Have you heard of the Japanese philosophy of Ikigai? 501 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:16,200 No. 502 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:23,800 OK, so I'll break it down a little bit, but off camera, we might get into a bit more details. 503 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:25,960 But it's an interesting one. 504 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,960 It also helps you to define the purpose. 505 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:37,480 So essentially, you have, let's call it like a four quadrant Venn diagram. 506 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,280 So four circles that are intersecting. 507 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,400 The first circle is what you love. 508 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,960 So you would list all the things that you love. 509 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,440 And that's usually easy for us to do. 510 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:55,240 Well, I mean, with enough experience, we can start to just become very, very truthful 511 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,280 in the things that we love and the ones that we don't love. 512 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:04,360 Then we have what we love, then we have what we're good at. 513 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,720 So that's what you have experience in. 514 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,160 Well, you just named up about six or seven different industries. 515 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:17,240 But as we know, for the past decade, you've been fully focused on the online payments. 516 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,760 But it's also interesting that throughout that journey of all of the online payments, 517 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,960 because you've been in so many different industries, you also have a bit more of 518 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,840 the affinity for all the different industries that because all industries need online payments. 519 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,440 Yeah, but each there's other there's triggers in each that you need to have. 520 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,920 And each that you can use in the other ones. 521 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:43,480 Yeah. 522 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,440 So I've learned a lot from each other, but I had an open mind. 523 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,880 Without an open mind, it's not going to work. 524 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:50,680 It's not going to work. 525 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,120 But even switching between all of those industries, you would have to start with an open mind, 526 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:01,560 because otherwise you would be too focused on that one thing. 527 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,600 OK, but let me wrap up the IKIGAI part. 528 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,960 So you have the circle of what you love. 529 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,440 Then there's a circle of what you're good at. 530 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,680 Then there's a circle of what can you get paid for. 531 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,200 And then there's a circle of what the world needs. 532 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:25,160 And when all four of those circles intersect, that's where the IKIGAI is. 533 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:31,640 And I believe just based on the conversations we had so far, you do know your purpose. 534 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,160 It is already somewhere there. 535 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,440 Maybe you haven't fully written it out and defined it and settled into it. 536 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,160 But I'll share that with you. 537 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,440 It's also a journey that I've been on for the last couple of years. 538 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:57,240 And one of the elements that I see as part of my IKIGAI is doing these type of conversations. 539 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,200 Yeah, it's nice because it gives the other person also to suddenly open up. 540 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,600 And as I mentioned to Claire, I don't open up for myself. 541 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,280 It's more about the business. 542 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,960 And sometimes I find myself at the other end thinking of myself, 543 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,720 can't this guy shut up because he's only talking about payments or about what he loves. 544 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,800 And it's not about the rest. 545 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,800 So I am a lion about 14 years ago. 546 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,800 I joined the Lions Club finally. 547 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,840 It's sort of as of the Leo Club because it's 13 to 18, you got a Leo Club. 548 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,840 And 18 to 30, you got another Leo Club. 549 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:33,800 I'll find Omega. 550 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:35,080 However. 551 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,440 So from when do they start with the Lions Club? 552 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,240 Actually 18, but because you don't have a job, high paying job and so forth, not. 553 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,160 So that's why we have the Leo Club track being Omega. 554 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,720 Then up to 30, you can still be in a Leo Club and be affiliated with the Lions as well. 555 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,800 So the Lions Club is more when you have a professional career. 556 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,200 As we would say as of 30, but in principle legally as of 18. 557 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,600 OK, but why is that? 558 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,880 Because there's a high contribution or? 559 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:06,360 Yeah. 560 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:07,080 OK. 561 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,680 And you're an adult, kids, cubs, the whole formality. 562 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:11,240 Yeah. 563 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:11,720 Yeah. 564 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:17,080 Leos are still learning the LEEO, the leadership experience and opportunity. 565 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:23,000 So part of my journey was about 14 years ago, I became a lion. 566 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,160 I decided that moment that, OK, I'm ready. 567 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,600 I could have a long time ago. 568 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,600 Usually when you want to become a lion, you need to be sponsored. 569 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,880 So I had my dad sponsor me while a couple of other friends tried to get me in. 570 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:41,000 But I made it that my father, my father was my mentor and he would be my sponsor. 571 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,840 He would know better than him. 572 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:43,320 Yeah. 573 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,000 Right now he's 51 years in line. 574 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:52,760 So, I mean, however, two years later, I found my note three years, four years later, I found 575 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,800 myself in the track that I wanted to help the future. 576 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,840 So I now, as I used to be a Leo, now want to help the Leos. 577 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,320 So I became their advisor. 578 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:03,880 Yeah. 579 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:11,320 And then in 2018, we started a second club, one for 1318, one for 1830, because it was 580 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:12,120 together first. 581 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,760 Long and behold, nowadays, and we're not even talking about payments yet. 582 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:26,680 Long and behold, I was requested to lead the zone ABC islands to be in charge of the Leo 583 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:27,240 clubs. 584 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,160 So help them out and so forth. 585 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,680 And that happened for two years. 586 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:40,440 And now the district governor last beginning of the year said, David, jump on board and 587 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,400 be the Leo chair for the multiple districts. 588 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,120 Now, multiple district means that you got all of Florida. 589 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:46,440 Yeah. 590 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,320 The Bahamas, all of Florida, all of Florida. 591 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:49,960 Oh, wow. 592 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,480 The Bahamas, Aruba, Bonilla and Curacao. 593 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,560 That's that's a lot of people. 594 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:56,920 Yes. 595 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,680 But that's for the Leo clubs. 596 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:09,960 But for three years now, I've been on a board which organizes the Leo leadership forum. 597 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,560 It's six years in existence. 598 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:17,320 All the leaders from across America and Canada can come to it and leadership is instilled 599 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:17,880 in them. 600 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:18,380 Yeah. 601 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,880 And with that, I said, OK, let's do this. 602 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:28,120 And I noticed that in Florida, there's not many clubs. 603 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,120 And if there are, they're not really active. 604 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,920 But it needs an overhaul. 605 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:33,560 Yeah. 606 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,240 And over on the way, like Curacao and Aruba would be leading the world. 607 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,280 And over on the way, like Curacao and Aruba would be doing. 608 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,040 Because the club in Curacao, for instance, 39 years old. 609 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,440 The Lions would treat the Leos differently. 610 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,880 They would partner up with them and do a project. 611 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:52,360 Yeah. 612 00:33:52,360 --> 00:34:00,600 The Leo club does community service, but they need to adhere to the LEDO, which they 613 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,280 they're not a community service project. 614 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:02,840 They are. 615 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,560 They get the training. 616 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:06,280 They get the leadership. 617 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:07,880 They get the team building and everything. 618 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:14,520 But they can only organize on their own two or three times a year to help the community 619 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,760 because the rest of the year they help the Lions club as well. 620 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,280 But they need to focus on themselves. 621 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:18,840 Yeah. 622 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:19,880 The learning curve. 623 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:29,720 With all this in 2014 sports betting in mind, CX Space started because there's a lot of 624 00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:36,440 online gambling where merchants are registered and licensed in Curacao. 625 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:46,520 But no bank in Curacao wants to acquire, to accept payments, to offer payments acceptance 626 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,040 for Visa, MasterCard for those sports betting companies. 627 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:50,280 Yeah. 628 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:58,280 Long and behold, in 2016, we or 2015, November 2015, we said, you know what? 629 00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,080 Forget it. 630 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,120 It's not going to work. 631 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,440 Let's do regular e-commerce. 632 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,200 So on the 3rd of January, we started with our first merchant in Curacao with e-commerce. 633 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:14,040 Our third merchant was a very small merchant at that moment. 634 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,840 They wanted to only process or had plans of processing five to six times a year. 635 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,320 Or had plans of processing $5,000 a month. 636 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:22,040 Yeah. 637 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:28,040 But nowadays they're processing more than over $800,000 a month. 638 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:28,760 A month. 639 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:29,080 Wow. 640 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:38,280 Our first client in Aruba was in November 2016. 641 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:45,320 And our first merchant in Saint Martin was in October 2016. 642 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:51,240 Oh, so for the Saint Martiners out there that have been constantly saying that the, 643 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:53,880 well, I was also one of them. 644 00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,440 The online payment infrastructure is just absolutely not available on the island. 645 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,840 But you're saying that there was a option already in October 2016. 646 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:07,240 Yeah. 647 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:08,600 And why am I saying this this way? 648 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,880 For people to understand what e-commerce is all about, 649 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,680 it is a saying that in person, which is called card presence, 650 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,680 you have that card with you, it's present. 651 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:24,840 Now it needs to become card not presence because you don't see the person. 652 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:25,400 Yeah. 653 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,680 And that is the whole reason why it's not popular. 654 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,320 Not because a lot of people want to pay, 655 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,840 but the risk that you're doing business with somebody you don't know and you can't see. 656 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:37,240 Yeah. 657 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,320 People don't understand that. 658 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:46,360 And now comes my cap that sometimes people think and some passion might come out right now. 659 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:49,720 The journey of a thousand miles starts with a first step. 660 00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:50,040 Yes. 661 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,960 And the cheap saying always is it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. 662 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:54,760 It's a marathon. 663 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:57,960 The same thing as studies. 664 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,000 If you don't study, you don't graduate. 665 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,200 Whatever you might have learned or not, it might not be intricate, 666 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,920 it might not be integral in what you're doing to do for the future. 667 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:11,640 Yeah. 668 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:11,880 Okay. 669 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,920 When we have algebra, when we're young, we don't know why we need it. 670 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,560 Now, the same thing with do you understand what a transaction is all about? 671 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,320 Now, if somebody is not in front of you, how do you know it's them? 672 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,840 One, two, how do you get the money from point A to point B? 673 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,840 No, point A to point B, no problem. 674 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:36,760 The risk that the bank is taking for the transaction is immense. 675 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,200 So security needs to be built on top. 676 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,880 And even with those securities, you still have the person saying, it wasn't me. 677 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:45,800 You're lovely. 678 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,480 So when you're saying the risk that the bank has to take, 679 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:57,240 is that because when a payment is made, the money may be transferred, 680 00:37:57,240 --> 00:37:59,240 but it's not transferred as yet? 681 00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:06,120 It might be somebody, what I really want to go to is that person that is in reality paying 682 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:07,560 might not be the real person. 683 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:09,160 Okay. 684 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,040 It might be your wife, it might be your cousin. 685 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:12,540 Yeah. 686 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,040 So somebody using your credit card to make an example. 687 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:16,840 Correct. 688 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,680 And then how, and then you need infrastructure to be able to reverse that. 689 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,720 It's basically, it's a catch-all. 690 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:27,720 That means you need to have the security in place and still somebody wants to charge back. 691 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:30,920 So why is it not readily available? 692 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,960 It is, but it's difficult to achieve. 693 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:34,520 Okay. 694 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,000 So banks usually think about the risk first instead of the opportunity. 695 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:39,640 Yeah. 696 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,960 Entrepreneurs think about the opportunity and the risk less. 697 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:42,460 Yeah. 698 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,000 So how does that go? 699 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:45,640 It doesn't. 700 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:46,200 It doesn't. 701 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:46,700 Okay. 702 00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:55,640 So long and behold, 2023, we now have, CXPay has 28 or 29 available countries and islands 703 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:56,840 for our clients. 704 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,760 With one of our more active merchants. 705 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,520 So of those 28, how many are in the Caribbean? 706 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,200 24. 707 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,000 We've got Costa Rica, we've got Canada. 708 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,800 So it means that most are in the Caribbean. 709 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:21,320 That means we have merchants in Barbados, Jamaica, Bahamas, BVI, the Dutch Caribbean. 710 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,000 It's not in how difficult or what expensive it is. 711 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,920 It is getting it done. 712 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:34,680 So our fifth or sixth merchant came to us and she was selling a cookbook. 713 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:36,040 Cookbook. 714 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:36,540 Yeah. 715 00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:39,080 Caribbean Delights. 716 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:39,580 Curacao. 717 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:41,640 Caribbean Delights? 718 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:42,920 Which is Helmi Smoders. 719 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,840 Wait, don't we have that book? 720 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:45,720 I think we have that. 721 00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:47,720 Is it like an orange company? 722 00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:51,640 It has food on the cover. 723 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,280 So Helmi came to us and she's like, I need to sell this. 724 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,280 If not, it can't get to the Caribbean. 725 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,960 And we're like, okay, so we offered her and she says, oh, it's expensive, but it's a cost 726 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:02,680 of doing business. 727 00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:10,200 She did it because the only way of her getting her book out there was to get it done no matter 728 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:10,680 how. 729 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,080 It doesn't matter if the client needs to pay, you need to pay. 730 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,080 It doesn't matter if the client needs to pay, you need to pay. 731 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,040 It needs to matter that the book can get in somebody's house. 732 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:18,600 Yeah, exactly. 733 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,400 Because what was the other saying? 734 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,240 You got to pay the cost to be the boss. 735 00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,400 Yeah, that's a good one. 736 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:34,040 So Helmi was like, she was maybe selling a book in every so many months. 737 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:34,600 Yeah. 738 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,240 Now, because she has still that merchant account, she's doing a pop-up events through it. 739 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:40,920 She's doing books. 740 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:41,960 She has a second book. 741 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,240 And that's what it's all about. 742 00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:47,240 So we have several merchants. 743 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:51,240 Removing the friction and allowing the freedom of business to flow. 744 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:52,200 But you need to be open. 745 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:52,840 Yeah. 746 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,320 If you keep nagging on price and everything else, you're not going to start. 747 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:55,880 Yeah. 748 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,920 Because if that card that you would like, you would love. 749 00:40:58,920 --> 00:40:59,480 Yeah. 750 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:00,200 Okay. 751 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:01,640 And we were talking about Lotus. 752 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,760 If you keep looking at the price, you would never achieve it unless you say, I'm going 753 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:07,880 to work for that price. 754 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:08,360 Yeah. 755 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,280 However, you would like to work for that price. 756 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:10,840 Yeah. 757 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,520 However, you would like to have it. 758 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:12,760 Yeah. 759 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:13,800 So why can't you have it? 760 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,880 If you keep saying the price is too expensive, you're never going to drive it alone. 761 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:18,040 Yeah. 762 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,480 It's always going to be too expensive. 763 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:25,400 Basically, what we have is a system where payments can happen. 764 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:31,640 So we're a gateway primarily, which makes the friction between the payments on the 765 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:38,120 websites where somebody can take out the card and pay and the bank possible. 766 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:38,760 Yeah. 767 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:46,200 So if we compare that to, let's say, because we also have listeners from the US as well 768 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:54,360 as the Netherlands or other parts of Europe, mainly in the diaspora, so those with roots 769 00:41:54,360 --> 00:42:02,040 in the Dutch Caribbean, what would you compare it to then if you would take a US example or 770 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:02,680 a Dutch example? 771 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,280 Well, I would take Dutch being, let's say, a Mali. 772 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,840 However, Mali is an aggregator that sits below a bank. 773 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:11,160 Okay. 774 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:12,040 Okay. 775 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:13,960 That kind of system doesn't work. 776 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,000 And you guys sit in between the banks and the merchants? 777 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,600 We're just, we're not handling the money. 778 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,280 The bank is responsible for the money. 779 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:20,600 Yeah. 780 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:21,720 We're not carrying the risk. 781 00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:24,920 And the merchant has a merchant ID with the bank. 782 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:25,160 Yeah. 783 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,400 We're just saying, okay, we got a website that Shopify or it's WooCommerce or it's 784 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:30,120 Wix or whatever. 785 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,200 This is the merchant ID from the bank. 786 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:38,040 This is a translation to the website and commerce is being taken place. 787 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:38,600 Okay. 788 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:45,080 So, physically what you have now is that we're all over the Caribbean. 789 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:45,560 Yeah. 790 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:54,120 But we're maybe earning 50, 50 cents per hundred dollars. 791 00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:02,120 The bank, however, is earning anywhere between $3,000. 792 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,480 $3,000 and $5,000. 793 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:10,760 So, anywhere between six to 10X what you guys earn. 794 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:11,320 Yes. 795 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:11,880 Yeah. 796 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,560 So, it's, we're not expensive. 797 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:18,920 It's the banking and then I'm coming and I don't want to step on any toes, but I have to. 798 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:20,600 Visa and MasterCard. 799 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:21,720 Is the passion coming out? 800 00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:22,200 Yeah. 801 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:22,920 Totally maturity. 802 00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:24,520 Totally maturity. 803 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,320 That's all David's passion here. 804 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:27,880 Disclaimer. 805 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,240 Visa and MasterCard have a cross border fee. 806 00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:35,480 You're in, you've been in the States. 807 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:36,120 Yeah. 808 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:36,600 Okay. 809 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,320 So, your telco bill, your telecom bill. 810 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:39,800 Yeah. 811 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:47,560 You have a cell phone charge, which has minutes and you have a landline, which has minutes 812 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,000 and one is cheaper than the other. 813 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:49,560 Correct? 814 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:49,960 Yeah. 815 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:50,280 Okay. 816 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:57,800 So, we call that in, we call it a local line, an intra connection and an intra connection. 817 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,440 Interstate connection and the international connection. 818 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,040 One becomes more expensive than the other. 819 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:04,360 Yeah. 820 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,200 Because there's more switches in between. 821 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:06,440 Yeah. 822 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,440 That is also in the credit card world. 823 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:16,440 So, it physically means that Visa has a cross border fee from the US to Curacao 824 00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:19,640 and it's Caribbean, no, it's Curacao. 825 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:25,640 So, it's costs you already anywhere between one and a half and two and a half percent, 826 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:31,000 depending on the volume that the bank does or has an agreement with, with Visa and MasterCard. 827 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:39,720 And that would be, because we have Visa and MasterCard issued from Korea. 828 00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:41,720 But to acquire is one thing. 829 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:42,120 Yeah. 830 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:43,160 Issue is another. 831 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:47,480 So, one is having the card in your hands, the owner is accepting the payment for it. 832 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:48,440 Yeah. 833 00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:52,360 So, e-commerce is a comparison of a card not present. 834 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,960 So, you can't see the person of the card present being the swipe machine. 835 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:56,200 Yeah. 836 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:02,440 So, the swipe machine also has its fees because Visa and MasterCard charge a cross border fee. 837 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:05,400 So, now… 838 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:15,240 And that's also why I have a MasterCard and I have American Express and many places they're like, 839 00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:19,240 oh, we don't accept the American Express because their cross border fees are… 840 00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:20,040 Not just that. 841 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,560 I'll give you the real deal. 842 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:22,600 Okay. Go ahead. 843 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:28,200 If you're a merchant, American Express doesn't honor the merchant but the client. 844 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,440 So, the client says, it wasn't me. 845 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:31,560 Okay, no problem. Check. 846 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:38,360 So, the merchant wouldn't want to have the process of an American Express be declined. 847 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,080 Not declined, but excuse me, charged back. 848 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,360 Charged back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 849 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,600 Because if I make a purchase and then I say it wasn't me and then 850 00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:49,800 they would have to go into battle to get their money. 851 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,480 Whereas with Visa, I would have to go into that battle. 852 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:59,000 With the card programs, American Express would back the user, not the merchant. 853 00:45:59,000 --> 00:45:59,560 Yeah. 854 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,760 Visa and MasterCard would have security in place and do the battle. 855 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,480 You get two weeks to contest, you can show signatures and so forth. 856 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:07,800 Okay. 857 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,720 Okay, now, what you need to understand is… 858 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:17,880 People also told me there's also the fees that are more with American Express. 859 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,160 It used to. 860 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:20,040 Oh, not anymore? 861 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:20,440 No. 862 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,000 And we're talking about seven, eight years ago, it used to be. 863 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,000 So, it really comes down to just this part. 864 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:25,640 But let me… 865 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,160 So, either people are uninformed when they say these things up till recently 866 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,640 or they give me a 6.9. 867 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,160 Well, you heard it here, guys. 868 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:35,960 So… 869 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,400 There's another thing. 870 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:44,760 When physically e-commerce takes place, around the world, an example, 871 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,600 Germans use American Express more. 872 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,760 Visa and MasterCard less. 873 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:51,260 Yeah. 874 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,720 However, when you're traveling, I started going to travel now. 875 00:46:55,720 --> 00:47:01,320 When you're traveling, don't you know that you have an American Advantage card 876 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,920 and a merit rewards card? 877 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:05,560 Yeah. 878 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,720 And they're labeled with Visa and MasterCard? 879 00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:08,220 Yeah. 880 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,840 Those vanity cards, how do you think the points get paid? 881 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:15,720 I don't know. 882 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:16,920 Inform me. 883 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:17,800 The merchant. 884 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,520 Because the bank charges when a vanity card is being used. 885 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,280 The bank charges when a vanity card is being used. 886 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:33,000 So, like the Macy's Visa card is more expensive in charges to the merchants 887 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,720 than a regular plain Jane Visa or MasterCard. 888 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,680 Because the program that… 889 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:39,320 Oh. 890 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,560 You need to feed the program with the points. 891 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:42,920 The points need to be paid. 892 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,520 Oh, OK. 893 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,040 OK. 894 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,320 Well, then maybe there's still some truth in it. 895 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:55,880 Because actually my American Express is connected to Flying Blue of KLM with the points. 896 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:56,440 Yeah. OK. 897 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,280 Now, how do the points get paid? 898 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:00,840 Well, I guess that's how they get paid. 899 00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:01,340 Exactly. 900 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,240 So, I'm getting educated. 901 00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:06,600 That's another reason why everybody says credit cards are expensive. 902 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,760 Now, we're going to come to debit cards. 903 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:15,880 So, as of 2016, I was praying because there was always a notion that MasterCard would 904 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:21,960 stop with Maestro, pin debit, not debit, pin debit card, and that they would change over 905 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:23,560 into a debit card. 906 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:28,120 Remember, CIBC and across the region has a debit card. 907 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:33,880 You put it in, it says debit or credits or savings or currents. 908 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:34,380 Yeah. 909 00:48:34,380 --> 00:48:39,180 Banco de Caribe changed theirs to a debit card as well now. 910 00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:39,680 Yeah. 911 00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:41,580 Orco Bank as well. 912 00:48:41,580 --> 00:48:45,740 And they just took them in and gave the new ones, Fira Nova Bank as well and Curacao. 913 00:48:46,460 --> 00:48:50,300 Now you have MCB Group rolling out their debit cards as well. 914 00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:54,940 But that is lost, theft, stolen, broken, whatever. 915 00:48:55,580 --> 00:48:59,900 That was replaced and any new ones going out will be a MasterCard debit. 916 00:48:59,900 --> 00:49:05,900 But that will complete its mission in 2027. 917 00:49:05,900 --> 00:49:09,900 So, MasterCard debit is then different from the Maestro. 918 00:49:09,900 --> 00:49:11,900 It is the replacement of the Maestro. 919 00:49:12,700 --> 00:49:16,700 So, are Maestro getting replaced worldwide or only here in the region? 920 00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:17,260 Yes, stopped. 921 00:49:17,260 --> 00:49:20,780 In Holland, VP is Visa debit. 922 00:49:20,780 --> 00:49:23,020 And Maestro is MasterCard debit. 923 00:49:23,020 --> 00:49:26,140 They all changed to Visa debit and MasterCard debit. 924 00:49:27,820 --> 00:49:29,260 I got a double check down. 925 00:49:29,260 --> 00:49:33,500 I double checked down my cards because I got a couple new ones recently. 926 00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:34,000 Okay. 927 00:49:34,460 --> 00:49:40,860 But at the program in the 1st of July, Holland started any new cards going out 928 00:49:40,860 --> 00:49:44,700 would be a Visa or a MasterCard debit, not a VP or a Maestro. 929 00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:48,140 It might have been just before the 1st of July. 930 00:49:48,140 --> 00:49:50,780 But now what you can do is you can cut it and you can ask a new one, 931 00:49:50,780 --> 00:49:52,300 but you got to pay a couple of dollars. 932 00:49:52,300 --> 00:49:53,180 Yeah. 933 00:49:53,180 --> 00:49:56,780 But what happens now is you can go on the same railing as the e-commerce. 934 00:49:56,780 --> 00:49:59,020 On the same railing as the e-commerce. 935 00:49:59,020 --> 00:50:01,260 Because it's a brand Visa and brand MasterCard. 936 00:50:01,260 --> 00:50:03,820 It doesn't matter if you're a debit or a credit. 937 00:50:04,700 --> 00:50:06,140 Oh, okay. 938 00:50:06,140 --> 00:50:07,340 Now I get it. 939 00:50:07,340 --> 00:50:12,540 So now we're talking since 2016 that we've been providing all these countries and islands 940 00:50:12,540 --> 00:50:19,020 a solution where finally we can get onto the bandwagon where everything's accepted. 941 00:50:19,020 --> 00:50:29,340 So you'll be able to fill in your information in a very similar way with that debit card 942 00:50:29,340 --> 00:50:30,860 as you do now with the credit card. 943 00:50:32,060 --> 00:50:33,740 And it has direct access to your card. 944 00:50:33,740 --> 00:50:35,420 So you come from Holland. 945 00:50:35,420 --> 00:50:36,140 Yeah. 946 00:50:36,140 --> 00:50:37,260 You don't like credit. 947 00:50:37,900 --> 00:50:42,140 Well, I don't talk about you personally, but the Dutch don't like credit. 948 00:50:42,140 --> 00:50:43,260 The Americans do love. 949 00:50:44,380 --> 00:50:46,380 The Dutch would come with a debit card. 950 00:50:46,380 --> 00:50:49,740 And that money is directly from their checking accounts. 951 00:50:49,740 --> 00:50:50,240 Yeah. 952 00:50:51,180 --> 00:50:52,460 But it's a Visa and a MasterCard. 953 00:50:52,460 --> 00:50:54,300 So everybody can use Visa and MasterCard. 954 00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:57,180 We got the rails of Visa and MasterCard. 955 00:50:58,300 --> 00:51:00,060 So that problem is now resolved. 956 00:51:00,060 --> 00:51:09,660 So was this part of those financial standards that they changed up a few years back? 957 00:51:10,380 --> 00:51:10,880 Which ones? 958 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,000 There are some new ISO standards that went into effect. 959 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,480 Could be because of security and how they get treated by GDPR, privacy. 960 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,800 There's a bunch of things that every week there's a new rule and regulation. 961 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:23,300 Yeah. 962 00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:24,960 Interesting. 963 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:32,800 But we're the only ones in Curacao who have and now part of my passion comes out, 964 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:40,160 who legally offers the merchant a solution to accept payments in the payments of their own country. 965 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:43,120 And let me explain it. 966 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:43,620 Yeah. 967 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,880 It's called the local payment method. 968 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:47,380 Okay. 969 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,960 So local payment method in Holland is ideal. 970 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:51,460 Yeah. 971 00:51:51,460 --> 00:51:55,200 Germany, software banking, Belgium, bank on top. 972 00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:55,920 Yeah. 973 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,680 China Union pay in China. 974 00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:58,180 Yeah. 975 00:51:58,180 --> 00:52:02,960 7-11, Japan, Ello in Brazil, Baloto, Colombia. 976 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:09,040 And we have over a hundred payment methods that only CXPay in a legal way can offer the merchants. 977 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:09,540 Now. 978 00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,640 So you guys can connect to those payments as well? 979 00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:14,140 Yes. 980 00:52:14,140 --> 00:52:14,640 Okay. 981 00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:22,440 So then anyone from China, Japan, Netherlands, or even the United States, 982 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:31,640 they would be able to just use their own payment method to pay that merchant in Curacao. 983 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:32,140 Correct. 984 00:52:32,140 --> 00:52:33,640 In Martin, Barbados. 985 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:40,040 Well, and then, and that's why I said the passion, because at that very moment, we're going to have an issue. 986 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:48,360 Because now comes the what and where we are in the financial industry and the status of it in the Caribbean. 987 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:52,600 So in the Caribbean, we got what? 36, 38 islands? 988 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:55,640 I think there's more. 989 00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:57,240 We got a hell of a lot of islands. 990 00:52:57,240 --> 00:53:00,920 We are treated every single island on its own. 991 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:01,420 Yeah. 992 00:53:01,420 --> 00:53:04,520 We're not treated for the 27 million people we are in the Caribbean. 993 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:05,020 Yeah. 994 00:53:05,020 --> 00:53:09,640 So that means like Apple Pay is not available because it's volume. 995 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:10,140 Yeah. 996 00:53:10,140 --> 00:53:11,640 It's all about volume. 997 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:13,000 So what happens now? 998 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,880 So everybody wants to pay in the Caribbean. 999 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,560 So what happens now? So everybody wants what's out there. 1000 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:26,600 But physically, that one payment system they edify so much is not willing to come into that country or islands. 1001 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:27,100 Yeah. 1002 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:28,760 We are able to do this. 1003 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,640 Now, why do I say, why am I going here? 1004 00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:32,140 Okay. 1005 00:53:32,140 --> 00:53:39,080 So in the legal standing of all this, CXP is but a gateway. 1006 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:41,480 We are waiting. 1007 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:43,880 And here comes the compliment. 1008 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:48,440 We are waiting in Curacao for five laws to be passed. 1009 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:48,940 Yeah. 1010 00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:52,520 One of them is called the electronic money institution license. 1011 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:55,720 And they're all at the RVA. 1012 00:53:55,720 --> 00:54:02,200 They're, excuse me, they're all at the WZ, which is the department looks at the laws before it goes to the RVA. 1013 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:02,700 Yeah. 1014 00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:05,000 Not from the V's before they go to parliament before run. 1015 00:54:05,720 --> 00:54:08,200 In Simarn, most of them are already. 1016 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:14,200 The RVA, RVA. 1017 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:15,720 That's the last one before it. 1018 00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:16,220 WZ. 1019 00:54:16,220 --> 00:54:16,720 WZ. 1020 00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:23,720 The WZ is the first one where the central bank then goes and sends the perspective law to them. 1021 00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:27,720 They look at it, make changes or not, and then send it over to the RVA. 1022 00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:29,720 And from the RVA, it goes to parliament. 1023 00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:30,220 Yeah. 1024 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:32,840 Again, I'm not in that circuit. 1025 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,720 I might have something wrong, but that's how I see it. 1026 00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:36,220 Yeah. 1027 00:54:36,220 --> 00:54:37,240 That's your perspective. 1028 00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:38,240 Yeah. 1029 00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:42,240 In 2020, when COVID started, we were in middle of COVID. 1030 00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:52,240 We, four of us, four Fintech companies in Curacao formed an alliance and we formed ourselves the Curacao Fintech Association. 1031 00:54:52,240 --> 00:55:02,240 And we were part of the movements which received from the central bank, same central bank as Simarn, these laws. 1032 00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:06,240 Or, excuse me, what they wanted to make a law. 1033 00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:07,240 Yeah. 1034 00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:12,240 And again, I'm not in that circuit, so my name, my naming of it is wrong. 1035 00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:17,240 We had insights and we looked at several of them. 1036 00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:23,240 And in the one which has an EMI, there were like 34 changes we made. 1037 00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:31,240 And from banks are being like, got a rock, red carpet, but Fintechs do not. 1038 00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:32,240 This one is wrong. 1039 00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:33,240 This one's this. 1040 00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:34,240 34. 1041 00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:35,240 Yeah. 1042 00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:38,240 17 of those got accepted and it went to your way. 1043 00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:42,240 So in Simarn, compliments, it's at the RBL. 1044 00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:47,240 So hopefully at the end of November, beginning of December, Parliament is going to vote on them. 1045 00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:48,240 Oh, awesome. 1046 00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:50,240 An example. 1047 00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:57,240 So that means that Simarn in that perspective might be slightly ahead of the curve there. 1048 00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:58,240 Yes, sir. 1049 00:55:58,240 --> 00:55:59,240 Trailblazing. 1050 00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:00,240 Yes, sir. 1051 00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:02,240 Congrats to Simarn there. 1052 00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:04,240 Because you got a real way out there already. 1053 00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:09,240 They could give me a license, but they're asking a bit too much for a Fintech company. 1054 00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:11,240 But then Simarn's next. 1055 00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:19,240 And what happens then is we can now offer these payments to whoever we want because we're going to carry the risk. 1056 00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:22,240 Coming back to the risk part of the bank. 1057 00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:28,240 So there's a lot of things which could go better. 1058 00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:39,240 And before we jump into that sticking on the Simarn end here, you guys are also collaborating on a project right now, right? 1059 00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:41,240 That's about to launch. 1060 00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:51,240 Well, by the time this video comes out, it would have already launched because we aren't airing until sometime in 2024. 1061 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:55,240 Oh, OK. 1062 00:56:55,240 --> 00:57:00,240 So then we need to stop whatever I was speaking about and then I need to go to CXPay. 1063 00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:07,240 Now, CXPay has several services because the gateway doesn't earn because it's a volume based business. 1064 00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:09,240 We don't earn much. 1065 00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:11,240 We are left with little. 1066 00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:14,240 We need to go into the perspective. 1067 00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:19,240 We need to be in every moment where a transaction takes place. 1068 00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,240 That's only the way that we can create volume. 1069 00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:22,240 Yeah. 1070 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:28,240 So in all the time we came with a GoFundMe solution. 1071 00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:40,240 And we have an account with the bank and we're providing like food venues and a couple other places or organizations offering a solution to do funds to collect funds. 1072 00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:45,240 OK, so like a GoFundMe crowdfunding solution. 1073 00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:56,240 And then in 2019, we started a cashless token solution being a digital token. So you in in Ireland, Europe know that you just go to a festival. 1074 00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:01,240 You give them money, swipe money, put on a wristband or on a card. 1075 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:06,240 And then during the whole party, you can do events, you can tap and tap and go. 1076 00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:13,240 We have that solution. We made an immense, immense investment. 1077 00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:18,240 And then COVID said, how are you doing? 1078 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:24,240 So end of 2022, we did our second or actually our third venue. 1079 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,240 Yeah. And then we started back on track. 1080 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,240 So cashless solutions we're doing right now. 1081 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,240 We're actually I'm not going to say well, I can because it's going to go live. 1082 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:46,240 But Mr. Rood has has a has a venue here and he is on our system providing physical tickets and online tickets with all our payment methods through CX events. 1083 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,240 So there's CX events. 1084 00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,240 There's CXPay to fund. 1085 00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,240 CXPay to fund. 1086 00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,240 The pay to fund is a crowdfunding. 1087 00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:56,240 That is correct. 1088 00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,240 The donations based crowdfunding solution. 1089 00:58:58,240 --> 00:58:59,240 Yes. 1090 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:00,240 The gateway is CXPay. 1091 00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:01,240 Yeah. 1092 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:07,240 And then we have the fourth one, which is CXPayMe, which is a wallet. 1093 00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:08,240 Yeah. 1094 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,240 And that's our own. 1095 00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:20,240 So for those familiar with what they have in the Netherlands or familiar with what they have in the States, that would be like the Tiki. 1096 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:21,240 That's correct. 1097 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,240 Or the Venmo in the States. 1098 00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,240 Is Cash App the same as Venmo? 1099 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:32,240 It's more of the digitalization of the money instead of the convenience of having an app. 1100 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:33,240 OK. 1101 00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:40,240 So CXPayMe has been created and the Ministry of Finance has supported it. 1102 00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,240 That's here in the in St. Martin. 1103 00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,240 That is correct. 1104 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:49,240 And we are honoring the Ministry of Finance with the official launch. 1105 00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:50,240 Oh, awesome. 1106 00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:59,240 Instead of starting it in Curaçao because we mentioned it in Curaçao several times and one year in, one year out, etc. 1107 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:14,240 So that's a bit of the stuff we spoke about off camera that sometimes the difficulties that we face as islanders that you're not always fully supported on your own island. 1108 01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:15,240 Correct. 1109 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:20,240 It's like other islands would embrace you and your own island not. 1110 01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:21,240 Correct. 1111 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:22,240 Exactly that. 1112 01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,240 So it is going to launch within the next few weeks. 1113 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:29,240 But guys, let's change that shit. 1114 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:33,240 So excuse my French, but let's change that, man. 1115 01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:43,240 Embrace your own as well as embrace our neighbors, the fundaments of the Leo Club and embrace the collaboration. 1116 01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:49,240 Because it's only together that we can really move these mountains and achieve these great things together. 1117 01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:58,240 So if we come with a payment app and it's called Sen, the only problem now lies with mass adaptation. 1118 01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,240 Yeah, for the people to actually use it. 1119 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:02,240 Correct. 1120 01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:11,240 So then, of course, we have the unbanked in Curaçao, which need to have a way of payments. 1121 01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:20,240 Yeah, so the unbanked are persons that don't have a bank account or for whatever difficulties and reasons can't get a bank account. 1122 01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:21,240 Correct. 1123 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:22,240 Yeah. 1124 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:23,240 Or it's difficult. 1125 01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:30,240 But they would be able to use this application and sort of have a version of a mini bank account in this digital wallet. 1126 01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:31,240 That is correct. 1127 01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,240 And they can execute payments and everything. 1128 01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:39,240 So we will tie in a debit card with the system so people can do that international payments separately. 1129 01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:40,240 Yeah. 1130 01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:42,240 It'll have recurring payments. 1131 01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,240 It'll have scheduled payments. 1132 01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,240 It'll have group payments. 1133 01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:48,240 You pay with a QR code. 1134 01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,240 The QR code will say everything and anything. 1135 01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:52,240 It is not new. 1136 01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,240 We do have our own. 1137 01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,240 So we know payments. 1138 01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,240 So we came with this. 1139 01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,240 Nobody can tell us differently. 1140 01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:10,240 But the one thing that we try to specialize ourselves in is staying friends with the banking world. 1141 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:11,240 Yeah. 1142 01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,240 Like crypto, a lot of people say disruption. 1143 01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:16,240 We're disruptive. 1144 01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:18,240 But we want to stay friends with everybody. 1145 01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:23,240 So we're going to do it anyway that banks can still earn. 1146 01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,240 The central bank still likes what we're doing. 1147 01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:27,240 Yeah. 1148 01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,240 And the solution is here. 1149 01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:31,240 Because you can beat me up. 1150 01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,240 I can go away and never come back. 1151 01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,240 And you're still with the same problem. 1152 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:41,240 So it's either we do it right and we do it correctly and we help each other out. 1153 01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:47,240 Or we're going to scream 20 years later and say it didn't succeed. 1154 01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:56,240 So that's basically what when I want to speak out against either banks, merchants, central banks, so forth, 1155 01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,240 you need to understand. 1156 01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:07,240 And many times I was in conversations or presenting in front of people and they're like the central bank. 1157 01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,240 It's your money they're trying to protect. 1158 01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:10,240 Yeah. 1159 01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:17,240 Now I'm not talking about failures we had because those were also up of the central bank. 1160 01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:24,240 But the main focus is to make sure that the money of the community is safe. 1161 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,240 Is safe and protected. Yeah. 1162 01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:32,240 And the banks get the rules and regulations to be and they need to and the central bank enforces that. 1163 01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:33,240 Yeah. 1164 01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,240 So it's the bank want to what they want to have the risk. 1165 01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,240 And then we come back to e-commerce. 1166 01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:43,240 So we're looking for a sponsor bank that we can do much more than what we're doing right now. 1167 01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,240 That we can be in charge. 1168 01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:46,240 Okay. 1169 01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,240 So we're connected directly to Visa. 1170 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,240 We're using some of their products. 1171 01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:54,240 And in the coming weeks we're we're sending out more products. 1172 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,240 Mastercard we're joining as well. 1173 01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:57,240 Hopefully in December. 1174 01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:01,240 And also with the same program that we're doing other products of theirs too. 1175 01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:06,240 So we're not only tied to one island, one bank, one this one that. 1176 01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:07,240 No. 1177 01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,240 Somebody wants to come with a bank to us and we have the compatibility. 1178 01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:11,240 Why not? 1179 01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:12,240 Yeah. 1180 01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,240 It's up to the bank to partner with us. 1181 01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:15,240 All right. 1182 01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:19,240 So it's all it's the ecosystem is all about acceptance. 1183 01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,240 And if you would like to partner up. 1184 01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,240 So it is tough. 1185 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,240 There's a lot of money that needs to be processed. 1186 01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:28,240 Yeah. 1187 01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:29,240 And not always we get the solution. 1188 01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,240 It's frustrating I know. 1189 01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:32,240 But an example. 1190 01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:37,240 I keep telling people don't come to me when your site is ready. 1191 01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:38,240 Oh yeah. 1192 01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:39,240 Yeah. 1193 01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,240 Because the bank does take a while. 1194 01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:42,240 Yeah. 1195 01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,240 Or the financial institution takes a while. 1196 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,240 And who knows if I'm compatible or not. 1197 01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:49,240 Yeah. 1198 01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:51,240 So we got Shopify. 1199 01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:52,240 We got Wokoners. 1200 01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:53,240 We got Wix. 1201 01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:59,240 From the time you have your initial business ideas and you have. 1202 01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:03,240 Well probably when they're in the process of really creating the site because then 1203 01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:09,240 when things get a bit more serious and a bit more. 1204 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:14,240 You start to pass a conceptualization phase then they should be reaching out. 1205 01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:15,240 Exactly. 1206 01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,240 And getting that process going. 1207 01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:21,240 So by the time the site is ready then the payment rails would also be in place. 1208 01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:22,240 Correct. 1209 01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,240 Because there's more KYC in compliance before. 1210 01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:25,240 Yeah. 1211 01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:27,240 And KYC for those that don't know. 1212 01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:28,240 Know your customer. 1213 01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:29,240 Sorry. 1214 01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:31,240 But it's also the developers. 1215 01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:32,240 Yeah. 1216 01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,240 Sometimes a developer says that CXP is expensive. 1217 01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:36,240 Yeah. 1218 01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,240 Aren't you? 1219 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,240 I mean everybody needs to earn. 1220 01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:42,240 Yeah everybody needs to earn money. 1221 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:46,240 You got those two sons to feed and send to college as well. 1222 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:50,240 The CXP team at the current moment is about six. 1223 01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:51,240 Yeah. 1224 01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,240 And you've been full time since when? 1225 01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:55,240 2019. 1226 01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:56,240 Since 2019. 1227 01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:57,240 OK. 1228 01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:58,240 So David. 1229 01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:03,240 I would love to continue talking on forever about this subject matter. 1230 01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:08,240 It interests me very much actually since I. 1231 01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:14,240 In 2019 and 2020 I actually created a personal finance course. 1232 01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:31,240 Also due to the fact that I went on my own personal journey and really understand in all the intricate details of my personal financial situation because I didn't grow up with that much to go around with. 1233 01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:39,240 So that was something that in my journey I had to figure out. 1234 01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:44,240 But so the subject matter interests me very, very much. 1235 01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,240 That's what I wanted to say. 1236 01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:49,240 It's difficult when you need to find yourself as well. 1237 01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:50,240 Yeah. Yeah. 1238 01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:51,240 So it's been a bit of that. 1239 01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:53,240 It took me six other industries before I got myself. 1240 01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:54,240 Yeah. 1241 01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,240 A bit of that combination. 1242 01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:01,240 But if we would now rewind the clocks and go back to 18 year old David. 1243 01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:06,240 And imagine that he was sitting here with us right now. 1244 01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:10,240 What words of advice would you have for him. 1245 01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:14,240 Actually what I would tell my lios. 1246 01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:19,240 Do what you love and love what you do. 1247 01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:24,240 Because you need to go into a direction which you at that moment think. 1248 01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:25,240 Yeah. 1249 01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:26,240 That you need to do or must do. 1250 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:27,240 No. 1251 01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:29,240 Look at what you would like to do. 1252 01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:30,240 It's interesting. 1253 01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:31,240 Let me know. 1254 01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:36,240 And some of them do take a year sabbatical after school. 1255 01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:39,240 I sometimes like we never did that. 1256 01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:40,240 Yeah. Yeah. 1257 01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:45,240 But look do something which you would like and enjoy it afterwards. 1258 01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:46,240 Yeah. 1259 01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,240 Change up if you need to. 1260 01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,240 And parents maybe by might be killing me right now. 1261 01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,240 But a change of something. 1262 01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:55,240 But this is also beautiful advice coming from a parent. 1263 01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:56,240 Yeah. 1264 01:07:56,240 --> 01:08:07,240 So maybe some parents that are watching and that have kids in their teens or early adulthood. 1265 01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:11,240 Well I know they can't say don't teach people how to raise their kids. 1266 01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:15,240 But you can take some advice from. 1267 01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:23,240 If I'm not mistaken I might have over the last nine years had at least 40 to 60 lios. 1268 01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:32,240 And they're all doing really well because they're focusing on what they love what they like what they're really interested in. 1269 01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,240 And they're able to excel at that. 1270 01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:39,240 And the only thing I want is for them to either come back or become a better human being or leader in the future. 1271 01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:51,240 Because I do believe that when you have when you do what you love or you or you go into the things that you're really interested in you. 1272 01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:56,240 And you're working on the things that you really like when the challenges come because the challenges will always come. 1273 01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:58,240 It doesn't matter what you get into. 1274 01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,240 You will have challenges. 1275 01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:01,240 You will have. 1276 01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:03,240 I don't like to use the word problem. 1277 01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:08,240 So I only say challenges obstacles etc. 1278 01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:16,240 But when you're faced with these things if you truly love what you're doing or you really like and you're really interested in it. 1279 01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:24,240 That will give you the power and the motivation to continue and burst through those those brick walls and and excel further. 1280 01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:33,240 And there's one sometimes they say it's used usually in multi-level marketing. 1281 01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:35,240 Just over broke this job. 1282 01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:40,240 Don't look at don't look at as a job because you do something you love. 1283 01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:43,240 You never work a day in your life. 1284 01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:44,240 Yeah. 1285 01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:57,240 And these days sometimes I would love to be in the office because if not this rain and the phone and its own inconvenience while at the office. 1286 01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:58,240 Everything's there. 1287 01:09:58,240 --> 01:09:59,240 Yeah. 1288 01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:05,240 But trust me when I say it if you don't like what you're doing and you really must do it find something else. 1289 01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:06,240 Yeah. 1290 01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,240 And I've I've I've done it. 1291 01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:09,240 I love food and beverage. 1292 01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:13,240 So I got out of it because I've had 27 hour work days. 1293 01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:16,240 I came in three o'clock in the afternoon. 1294 01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:17,240 Let me get my calculator. 1295 01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,240 Twenty seven hours 24 hours in a day. 1296 01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:25,240 I came in at three o'clock in the afternoon and I left 27 hours later. 1297 01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:27,240 Wow. 1298 01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:28,240 Yeah. 1299 01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:32,240 And that was the second of January 1994. 1300 01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:34,240 And then you said no more. 1301 01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:35,240 Afterwards. 1302 01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:36,240 Correct. 1303 01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,240 I went to pizza address Texel. 1304 01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:40,240 I went to other places. 1305 01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:41,240 Yeah. 1306 01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,240 Well for me it is. 1307 01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:44,240 Enjoy it. 1308 01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,240 And I make the mistake. 1309 01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,240 And sometimes I need to pull myself out. 1310 01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:52,240 Stop talking about payments. 1311 01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:53,240 Enjoy your life. 1312 01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:54,240 Enjoy your life. 1313 01:10:54,240 --> 01:11:00,240 And that's sometimes a difference aspect which I now need to switch. 1314 01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,240 And I think today we didn't. 1315 01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,240 The we back channel spoke and speak something about payments. 1316 01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:06,240 I don't think so. 1317 01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:07,240 No not that much. 1318 01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:08,240 No. 1319 01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:09,240 No. 1320 01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:10,240 No. 1321 01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:15,520 happy that Smile is around and we helped as well with the tickets scenario. 1322 01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:24,200 Yeah, that was amazing. I remember when I first saw online that you guys collaborated 1323 01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:32,120 with EFE on the project and that was then the first time that the payments, well that 1324 01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:39,720 we could have the events and payments be done online in St. Martin. That was a premiere. 1325 01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:48,040 Funny story there is, so EFE was my first podcast guest and it took a while also for 1326 01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:54,380 me to get everything arranged behind the scenes, get the right people in place and set up things 1327 01:11:54,380 --> 01:12:03,600 so that we can start releasing on a consistent basis. Her event was June 30th and the podcast, 1328 01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:09,240 which was the first episode, came out June 30th. In that podcast, she also described 1329 01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:18,240 the need for these payments to be physically possible on the island and that this is absolutely 1330 01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:22,940 needed and then funny enough when the podcast launched, she kind of forgot that she said 1331 01:12:22,940 --> 01:12:27,400 those words but that was the day that you guys launched the… 1332 01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:28,400 Smile? 1333 01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:29,400 No, no, no. 1334 01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:30,400 The events? 1335 01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:31,400 The Islandpreneur. 1336 01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:38,360 The Islandpreneur event and did the first online payment for the event tickets. 1337 01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:40,400 Yeah, it gets everybody out of their comfort zone. 1338 01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:44,840 So it was like a full circle moment. So I definitely was interested to collaborate on 1339 01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:55,840 Smile with that and then when we had the pre-event in Curaçao with the Chamber of Commerce, then 1340 01:12:55,840 --> 01:13:00,600 before I was even able to ask you, John, what are you talking about? Let's get this thing 1341 01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:03,160 done. So I'm happy we got it done, man. 1342 01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:04,160 Yeah. 1343 01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:05,600 David, thank you so much for coming. 1344 01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:06,600 Thank you. 1345 01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:12,280 So enjoy the island. I know you're from a beautiful island as well, but hey, you're 1346 01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:16,120 on another beautiful island. So enjoy your time here. I'll definitely be seeing you 1347 01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:24,560 at Smile in the coming days and continue doing great and amazing things, continue advocating 1348 01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:31,400 for entrepreneurs throughout the Caribbean to give them the chance that they haven't 1349 01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:35,240 been able to get for many, many years. 1350 01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:43,280 It's accepting it also. I want it, but I want it. But it's like everything has a but behind 1351 01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:44,280 it. 1352 01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:49,560 Yeah. Yeah. But I think that but is just part of the overall Caribbean mindset. And that's 1353 01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:56,080 something that we as Caribbean entrepreneurs need to continue to educate each other on 1354 01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:59,960 that at the end of the day, there's a cost of doing business. 1355 01:13:59,960 --> 01:14:05,840 But everything's here. And you come from a from a country where I usually say you're 1356 01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:10,720 10 years ahead of us. But a couple of years, a couple of days ago, a couple of weeks ago, 1357 01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:17,680 I found that the US had a perfect example why they're five years behind us. Yeah, they 1358 01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:23,160 still write checks. Oh, they still write in checks in the US and they still go to one 1359 01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:28,960 bank do a cashier's check. Oh, wow. And deposit it manually into the other bank. 1360 01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:36,320 Oh, wow. Okay. So we're quite modern compared to the US in some aspects, but we can do that. 1361 01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,800 Yeah. Yeah. So any any last words, David? 1362 01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:48,480 John keep on keep on striving. And I really thank you and Claire as well. A Saint Martin 1363 01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:54,560 or an Arubian and now a Curacao. And this is all this is all Dutch Caribbean. We need 1364 01:14:54,560 --> 01:15:00,520 to be partners as well. Partners in crime. Yep. And partners in time. We need to give 1365 01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:06,040 each other the time and effort and collaborate. Yeah, we have a past which crosses each other 1366 01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:12,000 and we need to be on the same path. We enjoy certain things which are the same. We need 1367 01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:18,980 to keep that alive. Yep. Yesterday when I was giving giving a spiel in front of a lot 1368 01:15:18,980 --> 01:15:25,440 of other people, I was like, guys, I'm just a Curacao and I have the solution. Can you 1369 01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:32,520 please embrace it? I also feel sometimes that when people from the outside see you and embrace 1370 01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:39,000 you and your own item doesn't, I feel it and we need to stop that procrastination. Yeah. 1371 01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:43,920 We need to collaborate with each other. That's one of the things and we have four companies 1372 01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:51,280 we collaborate with on a daily basis for payments. Yeah. The rest needs to do it too. When you 1373 01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:58,280 don't understand payments, ask. Yeah. Don't assume. And especially John, you are in Europe 1374 01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:05,960 and you are among so many things that I would wish to have. Wish. But we make our own thing. 1375 01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:11,520 Yeah. Accepting and sharing and collaborating. Those are the three words that I keep telling 1376 01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:19,880 and even the Leos I tell our future generations as parents, I say, give them what they need, 1377 01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:23,360 not what they want. Yeah. Give them what they need. What they need. And leave them figure 1378 01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:28,800 out what they want and help them with support them. Support them in what they want. Yeah. 1379 01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:33,560 Give them what they need and support them in what they want. I really I take my hat 1380 01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:40,720 off especially how the progress has gone with St. Martin after the hurricane. Yeah. And 1381 01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:44,640 my uncle, my wife is living here in the island as well and sometimes I hear of the hardship. 1382 01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:50,240 Yeah. Of hurricane, post-hurricane as well when hurricane comes. Yeah. And I also said 1383 01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:55,040 said told Ife a couple of years ago, I might come to St. Martin but as soon as the hurricane 1384 01:16:55,040 --> 01:17:03,200 is here, the first one out. I live very comfortably where I am right now. Yeah. And I understand 1385 01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:07,840 you guys. I understand St. Martin. I want to help. Physically I'm here. I'm more than 1386 01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:15,560 just I'm front row and center without my family, without my business. Guys, I'm here for you. 1387 01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:23,600 And I thank you John for this opportunity. But hey, listeners back home on the iPads, 1388 01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:31,200 the telephones, the TVs, the computers, etc. Thanks for tuning in. Please like and subscribe. 1389 01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:38,560 We are going to continue to bring you amazing content with amazing guests that have great 1390 01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:46,000 and awesome stories and hopefully continue to inspire you and many others to excel in 1391 01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:55,000 whatever it is that you want to do while this might help support what you need to do. Thank 1392 01:17:55,000 --> 01:18:18,920 you and with that we're out. Bless.