People! Good day, good afternoon and good evening wherever you're connecting from in this wonderful
world. Welcome to the Sunside Kingdom Show, the place where we highlight individuals with roots
and or associations to the sunny side of the Dutch Kingdom. These accomplished persons are
true role models and examples of what can be achieved when we combine hard work, perseverance
and mighty focus. I'm your host John Sandeford aka Jam Sandeford. Let's get into today's episode.
Welcome to the Sunside Kingdom Show. We came especially today to The Hague to meet you here
and I would say it's sort of like a multi-layered purpose, right? The Hague is where the political
arena lies so this is also the place that you execute your job on a daily basis, right? But
The Hague is also I would say probably the city that is most connected to the islands or at least
St. Martin to some degree because a large part of the diaspora actually resides here in The Hague
and we're currently sitting on the edge of The Hague, Schepeningen. We can almost touch the sea.
We can almost touch the sea and that sea is connected to that vast ocean which lands on
the shores of St. Martin so we can almost feel it. Yeah from the North Sea to the Atlantic Ocean to
the Caribbean Sea so once we touch that water we feel that we are connected and that's the theme of
your podcast where it comes with Kingdom Relations and the Caribbean roots that we carry and the sense
of belonging that we feel with our Caribbean diaspora here in the Netherlands as well as our
families and friends overseas. Happy to be here. Thank you, welcome, welcome. So Jereen, let's
start to peel back the onion. Don't make me cry though.
And we go back a few years to early childhood, early childhood here in The Hague. What was that
experience like? When I was born? Yeah, yeah. Really the get-go, the early years. Yeah, the early years.
Yeah, growing up. Well we'll probably have to first touch on that. Could you tell the people
where mom is from, where dad is from? Yeah, let me start with that. Yeah my mom of course is from St.
Martin and she met my dad right here in The Hague where she came to study for her third year education
like the majority of us still do and so she came at a you know young age of 16, 17
to come to the kweekschool, you know, to become a teacher and that's where she met my dad. They fell
in love like many of us do here in the Netherlands once they study and yeah they raised two children.
I have one brother, one sibling and you know in those years it was also pretty challenging for her
to return you know, small scale, sometimes politicized in terms of the ability to be able
to get a job. So they stayed in the Netherlands and so I indeed I was born in the Netherlands in
The Hague, in the south of The Hague then moved to another part of in the north and then to a small
village next to The Hague is where I have my finished my primary school and started my secondary
school in Lyceum before I decided to do my third year education in Rotterdam. Yeah. So where did
you study? Raasmis University, yeah, healthcare management and during my study, so my final year
I really you know sensed that I wanted to adventure and get to know my bicultural
background and my family better. Of course I visited St. Maarten from you know when I was since
I was two. Yeah. But I thought it was a great opportunity to do my thesis and my research
on St. Maarten. Because up until that moment you you visited in vacations etc. Yeah. But never
sort of lived and worked there. Correct, correct. So the first time that I really had an extended stay
for like almost a year, eight, nine months, was indeed I was already in my early 20s
and yeah it really grew on me and tried to see explore at the end of my studies but I was able
to return what as a junior you know those type of persistent problems then are still existing now
in terms of you know unexperienced whether you're seen as an asset or an opportunity for
on the labor market that was not the case. So I was unable to work at the hospital, it was very
small, tiny. My background I couldn't take on a managerial job then so I started as a management
consultant working for the healthcare industry so to speak in the Netherlands. So that's how I
built my first five, six years until my mom sent this fax with a vacancy. A fax. A fax.
A fax. Through the fax machine. So we also have younger folks in our audience. We might have to
put that right here, show them a little. Show them, yeah. What is that fax machine? They'll probably see the printer icon.
Donkey years ago as they say. So your mom sent you a fax, what was this fax? A clipping of a newspaper article?
A clipping of a newspaper article. It was you know a vacancy for the position of sector director.
But was she living in St. Martin? No, she was vacationing. Oh she was vacationing. Yeah she was spending time with her
siblings, her sisters and you know she traveled you know on a regular basis especially when we
grew older without us and so she said like maybe this is an opportunity for you. I was already married
at my first child so I immediately grabbed the opportunity and applied. But she wouldn't send
you something like that if it wasn't something that was sort of top of mind or in the realm of wishes?
What was it? Because you mentioned that during your thesis, my research, during your thesis and your research
there was an interest for you to continue living on the island and working but the opportunities
didn't really match the expectations. And then even years later there was still something inside
that wanted to reconnect in that way. Yeah especially from my end and she knew
that I had an interest to see if I was able to return and so when she accidentally
saw the vacancy she sent it. But also you know in the spur of the moment.
So it was also spontaneous actors. Yeah sometimes it's also about serendipity.
Serendipity. You know so and yeah so I applied. At that time it was of course an island territory
on St. Martin and I landed a job, moved with my entire family, never had a dull moment since.
Always you know try to grab opportunities to make a difference even though I sensed like do I want to
be a civil servant? That felt kind of like awkward for me at that time but I never had a dull moment
because I always felt as if you know in the public sector you make and you should make meaningful
decisions and changes or policies or laws in the interests of people and their livelihoods.
Yeah and that's also with public health related matters. So I always had a wonderful time then
grew with receiving more responsibilities, social security related issues, labor related issues and
then came the 10-10-10 phase of the dismantling of the Netherlands and Tilly's where you then
become like a quarter master to take on the extra responsibilities to become a country
within the kingdom of the Netherlands. So those were additional responsibilities.
So let's just imagine that some of our audience members aren't completely familiar with 10-10-10.
So what exactly happened in that period? Well in the 90s of course sorry early in the 2000s
of course St. Martin expressed their interest to follow actually Aruba with their status apart
from 1986 it was. So they also expressed that the Netherlands and Tilly's construct was not
in their favor and through a referendum it you know there were an X amount of options,
what the new constitutional status should be and then the preferred option was status apart. So
therefore becoming a country within the kingdom of the Netherlands. That has you know been long
fought, discussed, debated, consulted with the Netherlands with the other islands where Kursou
then also had a similar referendum so did the other remaining three islands of course because
there were five left after Aruba had parted of course. So you know that resulted and therefore
in 10th of October 2010 as you can recall with a completely new arena where the smaller islands
Borneert, Zeven, Steetje became part of the Netherlands integrated into the Netherlands
with their constitution and their framework well we can talk a lot about that.
What do we call it in English? Openbaar Lichaam, Bijzondere Gemeenten, a special municipality.
A special municipality. Yeah yeah yeah and I experienced a lot during my term as a member
of parliament indeed of how that integration took place. But that was the explanation of the
10-10-10 momentum and yeah. And for Sint Maarten and this is just let's say my personal perspective
it was probably more difficult transitioning for Kursou because a lot of those organizations
were already establishing Kursou that then supported the Netherlands and Tilly's
but then Sint Maarten had to overnight stomp out of the ground so many different organizations that
are needed in order to run your own country. Correct. Yeah. So that capacity issues. Yeah yeah
from the get-go actually the overall sentiment was that Sint Maarten as not a full island but
actually half of an island not having the so-called friend side. Yeah. Part of it that
would be kind of like a mission impossible to take on so many additional responsibilities. Yeah.
And which indeed is still a challenge you know when you look at reform related issues for instance
now what we're discussing in the relations within the Kingdom of the Netherlands in terms of the
required reforms the need to secure sustainable development you know the the the speed in which
you're able to do so the capacity and knowledge and people that you need to do that in a careful
effective and you know manner fitting a small island development states that that is still a
challenge as you know. Yeah. So but here we are it's still it did materialize and Sint Maarten has
had a rough start with when you look at certain crises that for instance happened in the first
let's say two decades. Yeah. With Hurricane Irma with the Corona pandemic so where we worldwide I
talk about triple crisis Sint Maarten had their share. Yeah. So which which is definitely
extraordinary. And and and throughout well definitely I know in that first crisis but
then I might be jumping the gun. So let's go back to about that 10 10 10 moment. Yeah. So in in that
moment you also played a key role in helping to grow some of those particular departments.
Right. Yeah. So give us a bit more of that perspective. Well just like you mentioned if
you have to secure a new ministry task and responsibility you have to review and analyze
whether the existing capacity is sufficient. Yeah. What type of new people you need to fill
new vacancies fill the vacancies critical to to do the job and take on the responsibilities
necessary for for people in the area of public health or social security to feel that they and
and that they see that they are secured in true the responsibilities of government. So that means
that you try to create opportunities for learning on the island that you indeed ensure that
recruitment is is done to try and find some Martin is that are willing to come back home
and fill those critical vacancies that you develop a new team or and that you give opportunities for
people that had internal positions that they're able to grow with the organization and gain and
take those new positions as department head for instance. So we we we managed to to to do it on
a team basis and it has always been a bit of my you know my my my ethics and my my principles
to do it together because one and one creates more than two. It's the synergy that is that is
then applied and it helps with the output. So in that transition even though I was a quarter
masquerade and still and sometimes friends were still send the pictures like look us there at
the 10th of October when we were like we made it you know we made it we did it and and and that
feel of like we were one of the first ministries that that that established themselves and we're
saying able to say we are ready and there and you can say a lot about that. So it's is you know those
are some of the examples that you have to build look at the inspectorate of public health look
at social security systems if we take on the health insurance system you know from the Netherlands
and Tilly's are we able to do so in an appropriate manner is the SZV as a new entity that taking over
the SZV ready you know with with the capacity to do so and etc. It was really challenging but maybe
that is also it made up a story of my life that where it comes to certain pressure and leaves
forwards that are necessary that is that is something that I enjoy and you know after I think in 2013
14 I was like you know I see that I take a back seat there's a new team ready to take on you have
to always encourage mobility it's time to leave to do something else which is not easy on a small
island you know where you live you play you work you do everything but so how to can how can you
enforce mobility so that your performance always stays on top of the game yeah so I moved to
to the ministry of education culture youth and sports was wonderful because I never thought
after having a conversation with a group of friends about you know what is your key priority
if you would become the president of the of countries in mark what would be your key key
priority yeah and for me it was education and and then six months later I was able to to take part
of that ministry and take on some of the challenges that were necessary for that ministry then
because so if if if I spin back the time a little bit to the moment when when you first moved to
St Martin you you you didn't feel like like the public sector was the place for you as yet but
but but growing in your role as secretary general and within the the what's the word I'm looking for
here yeah within the health care space there at some point you have to have a lot of links and
connections then with the political arena especially in that whole transition for a 10 10 10 for sure
so so those elements of of of the public sector then actually slowly started to sip into your day
job like to some degree well as if you're a sector director you're the primary advisor to the
political representative being a commissioner or a minister yeah but I should also emphasize that I
from the day first day that I started as sector director I've I really felt very comfortable very
much at ease and working within the public sector but when before I started I was like will the
position as civil servant be something for me it fits with me yeah however from day one I felt at
ease and comfortable and encouraged yeah uh because you have to contribute whether you're
a political representative or whether you're a public civil servant to the the well-being of
of a community yeah of individuals their livelihoods in this case their their public health concerns so
so the let's say your personal purpose was in line in both of these arenas yeah yeah otherwise I
wouldn't have survived as I said you know I've never had a dull moment I really really enjoyed
my work and I really hope with this also with this podcast that you know next generation will be
encouraged you know I mean I'm speaking to so many young people that are doubtful whether they want
to go back or yes or no or the obstacles that they see or the limitations that they believe they will
have which I which I understand they're real but at the same time if you're able to find your niche
as islanders there's also much much that we can we can do so I never had a dull moment
and indeed as a secretary general you're closer to the political arena because at that time
after the 10 10 10 date we also had indeed of course uh you know a closer uh democratic
structure with the parliament and ministers and and and therefore government versus parliament
and you know in terms of the trias politica uh being much closer so how will that play out
in a relatively new democracy therefore how will that play out to to citizens is still a process
that I think that the the Caribbean islands and countries are in but um um it was great to be
there for then a primary advisor of of ministers so close to the political arena but not being the
political representatives but very close in terms of your advisory capacity you have to think with
them and I have my difficult moments I can tell you that of course where sometimes commissioners
or ministers would say like what the hell are you busy with and where you sometimes have to count
until 10 before you respond before you respond
yeah yeah yeah so I've learned so many things and um yeah and then came Irma uh yeah in 2017
so that was so when Irma hit you were all you you you were then uh currently the minister of
um no I was I was secretary general working for the ministry of education culture youth and sports
so therefore you know within the 24 hours trying to get ready to get where the emergency center is
in order to check to see where you can assist and how you should assist and whether the schools are
have been that impacted you know and try to make an analysis and inventory in order to normalize
society uh you know get parents back you know to contribute to to Simbard's recovery yeah you need
to have safe spaces in in your schools yeah and so you have to make an assessment what that situation
is how to get people together how you establish and here we are then here in The Hague establish
contact with ministry of education here in The Hague yeah how they will assist and that early
recovery then started and then in the midst of it when political dynamics kind of like hit
yeah a very sensitive moment indeed I got the opportunity to be minister of education culture
youth and sport for a short period of time and then indeed was asked to become minister planning
potentially in the Netherlands because of the intensity of sin martin's recovery the Netherlands
had then decided to make 550 million euros available through the world bank that arrangement
uh or 470 to the to the world bank and 80 million earlier recovery or something you know so that's
where it all started and and and where you have a more diplomatic type of position here in The Hague
yeah yeah and it was also kind of around that period that we got to meet each other yeah yeah
and then you know it was a diplomatic role I tried to bring the story of sin martin in a positive
manner and the story of ermah and and his people and you know that story of that painting of ruby
beaut oh yeah sin martin will smile again and that went through the various ministries to tell sin
martin story and you know gain support have a understanding that half half a billion was
was donated by the Netherlands which was an extensive amount of money so
build bridges yeah build understanding was at that that time very very critical yeah
yeah and so that was until 2019 yeah and then we met again during corona yes yeah where I had to
do a campaign to participate in the second chamber elections and I did so straight out of sin martin's
which was very extraordinary and you also assisted with the online campaigns that we had to do
the digital meetings that we had with an overwhelming outcome of close to 16 000 votes
yeah that yeah that was really yeah I was like flabbergasted yeah I can see you'll see myself
sitting in the living room there by my mom and we we heard you know we saw some of the outcomes and
the outcomes and you know yeah that that was an amazing moment yeah and so in my head for me that
moment is still the first sin martin based roots person in the in in the second chamber is that
correct it's correct that's yeah especially definitely running the campaign out of the
caribbean from the caribbean not a person of caribbean descent residing and living in the
netherlands so that was kind of extraordinary I can still recall rob yet to telling me like no
don't don't move to the netherlands just stay put yeah you're there it's allowed people were like
are you able to do this this out of sin martin don't you have to you know be registered here in
the netherlands no it was not necessary so I learned a lot and that's how we did it which was
extraordinary and yeah d66 have been you know the one that really wanted to to support and bring
a new type of um you know connection between the islands somebody understanding and also with
certain type of skills and yeah to be able to survive in the in in parliament also because I
can tell you that you know after the 31st of march 2021 yeah it was like a roller coaster a jungle I
felt like a toddler I had to learn so many new things and and on your own so so dive into some
of those challenges yeah first of all uh I like to be a person that is successful yeah a successful
term and explain in terms of being meaningful you know having purpose and being made being able to
make a change for people yeah but being having been away for many years in order to understand
the political dynamics the political factions and and what their ideology is like the manner in which
debates are done and then I'm like well okay um I come from a Caribbean island which we you know if
we want to use many words we will and we will speak for 30 minutes if we if we are allowed to
and in the majority of cases we were allowed there it's like okay you have three minutes you have
four minutes make your point your interruptions have to be to the point in one minute two minutes
I was like yeah how to be expressive yeah uh successful persuasive get my point across if you
want you have two two two responsibilities as member of parliament that is to control government
in what they agreed that they would do in their term yeah coalition agreement and two you have a
legislative responsibility so how to manage those two responsibilities effectively in the interests
of people with my particular portfolios and those were your portfolio yeah I started of course with
kingdom relations yeah the natural that was yeah and the second one that's why I had a dream
portfolio I must say I had a dream portfolio I had but in the get-go I did three things three
political portfolios kingdom relations culture and the creative industries therefore and media
and media was the most complicated portfolio because the media landscape had
changed tremendously and and where you always have to look at media also in terms of their
informative and educational responsibility as they are funded by the government so funded by
the public sector yeah and therefore have an educational duty and also a duty where it comes
to safety and the democracy of a society you know informed citizens so for those who are
citizens so for those and I'm also maybe a little bit ignorant to this fact so that that relates
then to like naderland a naderland to a npo the broadcast so all of the the broadcast the
dutch broadcast system yes and and then with the new digital economy and the streaming and
and yeah the new tech players around influencing citizens and how that relates to the original
idea of an analog tv type of system that we have where I used to sit between the you know with my
parents watching channel one two or three yeah so where it is publicly funded with the objective to
to inform citizens shape society enhance democracy but where you then have to reconsider
whether as government or as parliament control that reality with so many new players around in
the media sector a lot of the players aren't remotely dutch no exactly so it's a lot of
mergers social media platforms international players streaming it's a lot of the international
players and and how how would things like well youtube for instance where the platform that we're
streaming this on how how does that connect in that in in that space should be should be considered
should be considered in terms of once once you have to evaluate the effect effectiveness of the
policies and the laws that are there and whether it does to society what you intend to do you have
to consider those new media channels that are there and are reaching especially new generations
so and that's that is a reason to re re reanalyze reconsider how you want to
to use the what is it one billion that was available for written new written media the
newspapers yeah or tv and that's the process ongoing but i i did it for a couple of months
and then as the second biggest political party in in parliament you have to take on the responsibility
also to be a chairperson of permanent committees so i um you know was asked and was allowed to become
the the the chair of the permanent committee of development cooperation and foreign trade okay
yeah so and that's completely different uh yeah but yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and especially
i took it on when you know the ukraine war started and the whole new geopolitical dynamics and the
new economic warfare is influencing trade started so you don't have to take the political position
yeah you are you have the chair role uh but uh overall i had there for them two political
responsibilities with political portfolios and i chaired the debates of that permanent committees
round table consultations technical briefings meetings uh in many ways or for instance last
year we uh traveled to rwanda uh with a big delegation and then you are the delegation leader
yeah uh where you explore the development aid cooperation but you also explore opportunities of
of trade yeah for instance so yeah i had a dream portfolio i must say and it was uh as i said a
roller coaster wonderful learning experience uh and um yeah where you hope to have contributed
for instance in culture and creative industries they were heavily affected during the corona
pandemic uh but but uh the six islands as well so so the first year was really focused on
the impact of the pandemic and how you're able to ensure that the islands survive or that the creative
industry and the makers those that are creative entrepreneurs on their own are able to you know
keep afloat and and survived it was the first year you know very very dominant you know what's
interesting well you mentioned it already but as we go through your story then then it's uh
you tend to rise in these crisis moments yeah like the crisis moment in 10 10 10 where where
everything was up in the air and someone needed to uh uh well many persons needed to play a role in
in in sort of balance in the chaos and you played a significant role there as well as in the crisis
of hurricane ermah and and the rebuilding process and the role that you played there in the in the
immediate um in the immediate recovery phase and then as you enter political dutch arena for the
first time i i think it was the first time in decades that we had such a crisis moment in the
netherlands i mean it was worldwide but then netherlands specific uh um i i don't think they
had any of those type of crises that affected the complete country maybe since uh the war
yeah clubs um so that says something about maybe what you know that i like these type
of challenges or that i have the skill to create some sense of hyper focus uh hyper focus and chaos
yeah or in need for instance last night i think until what was it 11 12 o'clock
you know you followed the debate in the second chamber with regards to the social domain social
security related issues employment and the cope car not regal sdc in dutch and you know you
collaborate with uh spokespersons and members of parliament of other parties as well as your own
party members to see if we can you know do justice to as we say the caribbean three municipalities
both in seba and stacia that have fought and expressed really the needs to really fight poverty
yeah and therefore increase the minimum wage increase welfare increase pension uh you know
support in many ways since especially since last year where we're rising inflation rising full
prices has you know posed so many challenges to families single parent families etc and those
challenges are particularly um well they grow exponentially in the islands since uh well
especially the dutch islands they're they're they're all dependent on import for their food
supply yeah and when you have uh transportation that triples in prices during the corona crisis
or even quadruples in some cases 280 dollars between seba station or between seba and simurton
yeah you know like those prices it's crazy yeah so it has a huge impact on their economic development
on their economic growth or like let's say development i think that's a better term
it's in terms of growth and therefore the position of families and their ability to survive
raise families raise their children and therefore create a bit the best head start of the next
generation in terms of their sense of stability their sense of safety that's their sense of and
their ability to do their schooling in a safe and effective manner so i was happy therefore with
the outcome yesterday so and then now yeah we we we gained a majority in in parliament to support
to support i mean through my motion i've asked the government to establish a special committee
to do all the analysis on what the social minimum is supposed to be they've presented their report
last week i know that you're going to air this later on so hopefully you know some of the things
that we're now exploring in the face of implementing will be clearer then by that time
you know but the majority you know decided to support an initiative that i started together with
another political party and a spokesperson to raise the minimum wage with not a little step a
little bit but with a huge leap forward oh yeah so wonderful yeah so i really hope that uh i'm
i'm looking forward to the moment that this goes live that we can potentially already place a link
in the bottom that you can see that they've made some great steps there yeah yeah yeah but i also
saw that there was an announcement um on linkedin i believe it was from me from you oh that i will
not continue yes yes yeah well before we touch on that part we would have to obviously let our
viewers know those that are not in the dutch kingdom that the the current coalition has
what would be the term government fell government fell um so so so therefore there's going to be
new elections coming up on the 22nd of november 22nd okay yeah and for those new elections you've
decided not to run again correct um would you want to express a bit uh about that decision yeah it
was uh i actually before government fell and before therefore the new elections were called
i had decided that i would limit to one term okay that i would complete my four years term that i'm
not a um you know a person with the ambition to be a long-term dutch politician yeah in in the haig
yeah and therefore not to decide to go for another four years yeah and therefore run into eight years
that was one uh of course i didn't expect the government to fall two weeks later after i
i kind of like came to that type of conclusion i was like okay
okay i'm like i'm not finished yet you know that's complicated complicated then i because so that's
kind of like traumatic in terms of okay so what does this mean yeah how will that interrupt you
know my my my priorities that i would like to complete yeah i thought i had a year plus to go
and now i only have five six months to go um what can i push well that that created that hyper
focus in terms of this social social minimum for caribbean uh the dutch municipalities dutch
caribbean municipalities that's something that i really want to focus on that's why i'm so happy
with that so you have to really internalize everything that's happening in the summer months
and then in the summer months i was on sin martin and you have to reflect on okay so am i ready to
take that on again yeah you know i had run on sin martin uh political campaigns in 2016 and 2018
in 2020 uh and now then again uh in 2024 of course the no 2020-21 for the second chamber
yeah and are you willing and able to make that commitment once more for four years yeah and my
answer was i wouldn't be able to do so and then you also look at the political landscape and
a political arena and what type of politics you i expect as the outcome of uh and and what is
currently developing and then you have to be honest and then you should not be selfish but
you really have to think on the general interest and the next politician that that's going to step
up and with that long-term commitment yeah i wouldn't want to be the one saying like i would
love to continue and then disrupt after a year by saying well i think i would like to maybe complete
or stop stop my my my work prematurely uh while you're in the midst of maybe uh you know a cultural
innovative or renewal agenda yeah i would rather than have new politicians aspiring to be
long-term politician to to to to be there from the get-go i really you really need to be willing
to make that commitment for four more years yeah and if you cannot answer that you should step out
and make room for somebody else and of course i looked around and supported uh you know some
people encouraged some people where i think that should be an inspiring next generation for my party
d66 so yeah i'm uh yeah that's a decision and then of course people start to ask like
so what's it gonna be are you gonna go back to same i was just about to ask so what's next
yeah then honestly honestly when that question was asked in august september i was like don't ask me
i can't because you know first of all it was too premature yeah and i also felt like i am a member
of parliament until the fifth of december yeah and the work has does not stop of december yeah
until the two weeks after the elections and then after the elections but but but that's also
the day before your birthday correct oh so you know so my first day of what would you say freedom
free freedom is uh wow yeah those are some stars and lightning yeah yeah so yeah um i you know press
on uh i felt as if that question in terms of what's your next move what will you do will you move
back what what what is what what are your next aspirations i felt like that's unethical to think
about because i'm uh you know i'm a representative of the people so to speak and the people's interests
go before my personal interest yeah in in that sense you know of a new of a career change but
i know that i will start to focus on that uh in the last weeks of october early november where
certain things calm down i will have my last uh kingly relations debate about the budget 2024
next week okay i will do one very very short debate about cultural heritage in the upcoming
week and i have some ideas there so yeah that is uh first the priority to see if i can be successful
and um you know make it make a difference in in people's lives yeah i think that people
especially those that voted for me but everybody also those on the other side of the ocean where
they rely sometimes on the decisions that we make here in the hag you know you have to see
whether you can go the maximum for instance curacao aruba st martin the any alone the corona loans
the you know the sensitive socioeconomic position yeah that they still endure due to corona due to
irma due to global developments rising energy prices you name it yeah everything you know comes
together and creates this huge challenge for for for the caribbean region in its entirety
i mean i'm a great fan for instance of me and motley of barbedas where she you know really takes
the stage to express the the urgent needs of not only the entire caribbean region but also
small islands and micro states uh you know so so i hope that i uh that i have an opportunity even
after this term as member of parliament to always contribute in different ways i mean leadership
comes in so many ways look at you look at you in you know the leadership role that you have taken
from the get-go when you were a young entrepreneur and uh also with this podcast uh so that always
thank you that always has been yeah that has always been my uh leadership and social leadership
or community leadership can be defined in so many different ways so many different ways indeed so
earlier you mentioned that um once when you made the decision to uh exit this current position
um that you also want to encourage uh those coming afterwards uh forward if if you were to look now
at um at our caribbean brothers and sisters or or sons and daughters um that may have similar
aspirations and goals to um one day be in the political arena here in the netlands for instance
what let's let's say two advice two two two pieces of advice that you could give them
um because there's not that many that have done it before are or are even currently there right
how many persons with a caribbean background are currently in parliament well if you if you if you
consider for instance the the greater caribbean including suriname they share we share the caribbean
c uh it is also sylvanas simmons it's also don't say there and it's uh also now by the way also
richardson being part of the baby days he just came back as she replaced another another member
of parliament recently so they're kind of like four and somebody of african descent so you know
the diversity is it's enhancing let's say diversity on the afro afro caribbean it's about five yeah
um out of the how many 150 150 okay so then percentage wise what are we talking about
about three percent no that's yeah about three percent yes three percent okay yeah all right
we'll have to crunch some more numbers yes look at up to what demographics if it represents a
definite demographics we we should we should be at in order to represent the demographics of what
we actually represent within the dutch kingdom i think it's close it's close i think it's close
i think there are 200 plus caribbean diaspora here in the netherlands 200 plus 200 000 plus
um and then when we when we count when we count all of the afro as well um which island well the
six islands when we when we um more than 200 000 but that's in the netherlands okay yeah okay
yeah that's why it's sometimes referred to as the seventh island in the netherlands
so yeah so which is which was a leap forward in comparison to the years before it's like you
mentioned and i really hope that that will uh be the outcome once more this 22nd of november yeah
there are multiple parties with uh with a diverse um list of candidates gender wise age wise uh
diversity wise and ethnicity uh race uh cultural backgrounds so which is hopeful
and it's necessary it's definitely not a luxury i think it will further enhance
the ability to have an inclusive democracy that people feel represented yeah and that they see
that their representation makes a difference you know every time i travel back to saint martin they
really mention like yo we see you you you know you even though you're maybe not even in the dutch
newspapers with the thing that you that you that you accomplish yeah you are you are in our newspapers
and we do see what you do what you do and yeah it is appreciated so that gives uh it gives a good
it gives a good feel you are highly appreciated madame thank you looking forward to do to see you
more and um yeah me as well and so so so let's take one of those little nostalgic uh deep dives
again um if you were to imagine that 18 year old yorin is sitting here because i think early 20s
yorin uh went back to saint martin for the first time but but 18 year old yorin so she's um freshly
young adult looking into this big wide world with dreams and aspirations with your current
experience and knowledge what advice would you give 18 year old yorin um to dare to dream and to
understand that life is not a better roses and it goes up and down and that you shouldn't take
things too serious and just do sometimes yeah without overthinking certain things and trust
once you believe in yourself that things will play out well or good uh you cannot oversee your plan
everything away of time certain things is comes together sometimes it is related to your dreams
uh and once you understand your strengths and you believe in yourself uh you know that life will
progress you know in a in a positive manner and you know when it comes to the caribbean diaspora
diaspora maybe something that i felt less because i participated in a dutch society from from the
get-go from young yeah my my advice to a caribbean 18 year old that that reaches here but feels that
they're not part of society then that first advice is still relevant but it's also like that feeling
of like oh i probably here for a short period of time i will leave yeah you you never know
that whether you will go back or will stay so try and participate from day one uh understand that
for instance where you have that first vote uh not in your caribbean home country but here in
netherlands make sure you participate because the things that are for instance decided here in the
hag with regards to education with regard to housing with regards to social welfare social
security with regards to so many or kingdom relations yeah you know affects you as well so
that that that has been challenging what i've noticed is sometimes campaigning like that there
are so many of the caribbean diaspora on the outskirts looking in or thinking it doesn't
matter or that they can't make a difference anyway yeah which is harmful not only to yourself
but also to your family members for instance and for instance on the other side of the ocean so my
advice would be where it comes to your personal career you know as i mentioned in terms of dare
to dream and feel comfortable in with yourself and you're express you're allowed to express
yourself the way you can and and and accomplish the things that you think are meaningful and
purposeful for you the other hand it's also where it comes to social life and community life and
democratic life and the freedoms that we enjoy to therefore participate in for instance elections
whether they're local in your municipality or with the elections coming up on the 22nd
for the second chamber because because oftentimes um i've also experienced it to some degree
when when i first moved back uh to the netherlands that uh i was only going to be here for a short
period of time so uh it was probably the first two to three years that i would that i wasn't
grasping it maybe maybe even understanding society yeah or understanding what the what the options
or the political priorities were considered yeah it uh it definitely took a while and um
and and and having i also believe is very important that there's that there's avenues
that we can go to where we can have those type of conversations and and get that part of the education
that um that that helps and allows us to understand how we sort of fit in yeah that that that that
definitely uh takes time so that but you know i mean it in that sense of encouragement uh that
i also met family members that haven't vote for for the 20 years that they've been here you know so
you know those type of examples are there as well uh i i really also look forward but that's something
that i may want to debate next week in terms of you know i think we had a conversation before
when i was minister planet potentiary where he said like why wouldn't uh you know caribbean
students that have to leave the island to further their studies here why wouldn't they be allowed to
vote on their islands yeah you know yeah where we go back to you know level of innovation critical
voice ability for the islands to develop accordingly i mean in many cases the young vote is is missed
yeah very so i really hope that we will find some formula in which that is feasible i understand
that you have to register here municipality to get the duo and the study financing and all that
all that type of stuff but because because essentially the other way around it's possible
for for for um you have to register well persons that were dutch citizens at some point
live in in washington wherever they can still vote correct in in second chamber in the second
chamber because that is matters of their of their home country but you know why you know what they
say and what the distinctive difference is it makes it a challenging discussion and exploration
is that those dutch nationals are oftentimes not allowed to vote and exercise their voting
rights elsewhere based on the dutch nationality while those caribbean dutch students with a
dutch nationality are allowed to vote here and therefore exercise their rights but it's about
extracting a younger generation out of your country yeah and therefore not giving them the
opportunity to influence the direction of their country to which they expect to return to and what
that will do with democracy and change is an interesting conversation this is again one of
those like catch-22s catch-22s and and and and really challenging challenges
that that that we face as small island nations uh and with a colonial past etc that that's
okay interesting conundrum yeah yeah when i when i participate in this conference in in trinidad
about innovation developments in the caribbean and the greater caribbean yeah where they really
express that indeed the caribbean islands due to the net the the history and the colonial history
takes out a majority of of their younger generation to study in the uk in the states and canada and
the netlands and that they don't return is that that it does also influence the ability of the
caribbean islands to innovate yeah to change and that when i when i heard you know an important
speaker expressed that i was like that is therefore also critical to consider uh in moving forward and
we will never be able to because if if if those that leave feel a certain disconnect with where
they are but they also start to grow a disconnect with where they're from yes and and that disconnect
is is not bridged in the right way because they also can't express their voice in in in the future
shape in of of that country it then probably puts many in a position of feeling helpless to some
degree that i've sort of grown a distance um with where i'm from um i'm slowly maybe integrating
here and some maybe never do um so you do get a feeling of feeling voiceless over time yes and
that has been proven the research has been done by you know the the demographic institutions or
the democratic institutions here to explore these type of subjects it's proven that people of caribbean
descent often do not partake in in these type of democratic elections and which is a concern
because once you decide to postpone and not do it or or consider it to be something not necessary
now but in the future you run the risk of being you know on the outside for extended period of time
or may may not ever ever want to vote anymore and those yeah i think you know in we are we are here
in europe in these democratic societies which is you know cherished look at what is happening in
the world uh with you know strong leaders uh you know shutting down journalists that are not allowed
to do their you know their their media have their media outlets anymore or they control uh the
justice uh uh sector and so you know in that sense i do think that freedoms as we experience in this
democratic societies that we live in are supposed to be nurtured supported but never be taken for
granted yeah we can continue that and go on and on and on and um and and uh we'll probably circle
back around in in june time and uh continue these conversations but i know you're also
a very busy lady and have to uh move on to the next appointment so yurin i would like to thank
you very very much for being here today um this is our final episode of season one and we wanted to
have a climactic finish lucky number seven lucky number seven i i've also like taken on the number
seven as one of my lucky numbers as well as oh my god this is crazy as well as 13 today is actually
the 13th it is it is yeah it is i had to take on 13 because friday the 13th because my birthday is
on the 13th and many times they would tell me is unlucky and i'm like no it's gonna be a lucky
number there you go i'm not gonna let you determine what is gonna be lucky or unlucky for me i'll make
13 a lucky number yeah so you take control of your life exactly you have been one of those examples
that i've seen over the last couple of years of always indeed you know creating your own path
of being a entrepreneurial in in nature and always indeed contributing to to you know the
country that you're from the caribbean islands that you are from and finding ways through a
podcast or through your assistance also after ermah in how you are able even from here in the
netherlands being able to be helpful so i know that you're traveling this weekend so enjoy the
islands thank you much success also with that event upcoming that smile event smile event
thank you very much yeah i look forward to seeing you soon and to talk some more
yeah for sure oh are we doing this one island style there you go so thank you guys
at home for tuning in whether it's on the mobile phone the tablet the laptop the television
please subscribe like and follow for more content this was unfortunately the end of season one but
at the same time fortunately the end of season one so i'll see you in the new year for season two
thank you see you soon