WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.579 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.579 --> 00:00:22.559 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:31.699 Hello everybody and welcome to the Sensory Classroom 00:00:31.699 --> 00:00:34.579 podcast. My name is Jordan and today I am joined 00:00:34.579 --> 00:00:37.799 by Celeste from Root, Rise and Learn. She is 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:41.740 a mum to two neurodivergent children, home educator, 00:00:42.340 --> 00:00:45.479 formerly teacher and now a movement therapist 00:00:45.479 --> 00:00:49.000 specialised in sensory integration. So, so much 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:52.280 to cover today when we talk about the waiting 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:55.240 time between diagnosis and what you can do in 00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:57.640 that time, whether you're a teacher or a parent. 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:02.700 Hi Celeste. Good morning. How are you this morning? 00:01:03.179 --> 00:01:06.099 I'm really well and I'm really excited to talk 00:01:06.099 --> 00:01:09.579 to you today. I'm a big super fan of sensory 00:01:09.579 --> 00:01:12.939 classroom. I'm a huge super fan of sensory integration 00:01:12.939 --> 00:01:15.319 so I feel like we've got a lot to talk about 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:18.659 today. We're friends. Shall we talk a little 00:01:18.659 --> 00:01:21.579 bit about discussing how the hell you wear all 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:25.260 of these hats and how that came to be? Yes. So, 00:01:25.260 --> 00:01:27.719 I mean, basically, it's kind of my life story 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:31.359 has all converged into me finally making the 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:34.599 world a better place. So I am a mum, let's start 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:38.299 there, of two amazing, highly neurodiverse kiddos. 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:43.540 We are so all over the diagnostic map. We have 00:01:43.540 --> 00:01:46.519 all the HD in the house. We are dealing with 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:51.560 ARFID, Tourette's, OCD. Sensory processing disorder, 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:54.200 auditory processing disorder, speech and language 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:58.060 delay. So I've been in every possible therapy, 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:01.459 every medical setting. We also have some medical 00:02:01.459 --> 00:02:04.560 issues. So yeah, I mean, my experience with my 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:08.379 kiddos, I also have ADHD. Did you find out that 00:02:08.379 --> 00:02:10.479 after parenting or did you already know that? 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:13.699 That's late diagnosed. I wasn't massively surprised, 00:02:13.740 --> 00:02:18.819 to be honest. Yeah, yeah. out of that process 00:02:18.819 --> 00:02:22.819 with my kids as well and great it's great we're 00:02:22.819 --> 00:02:25.819 we're living the fully neurodiverse life here 00:02:25.819 --> 00:02:28.560 and because of my kiddos needs and kind of the 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:32.479 timing that it all lined up kind of during the 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:36.199 covid season is that when we came to making educational 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:39.840 choices i as also being a former teacher and 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:44.680 actually my very first job was in a in a school 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:47.479 for children with very extreme disabilities and 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:50.520 send needs. So that was my very first job straight 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:52.259 out of the gate was supporting a music therapist 00:02:52.259 --> 00:02:54.879 in that setting. So I went right in the deep 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:58.400 end. But I taught Key Stage 1 for quite a long 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:02.419 time in mainstream. So when I came to making 00:03:02.419 --> 00:03:05.020 decisions for my own kids, I've kind of been 00:03:05.020 --> 00:03:09.099 behind the scenes and My son was maybe four or 00:03:09.099 --> 00:03:11.800 five during COVID, and it was kind of a no -brainer 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:14.439 that we would start out home educating. And it 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:19.259 has been just the best decision that I think 00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:21.419 we possibly could have made for them and for 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:25.439 our whole family dynamic. Their development, 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:29.180 their mental health and well -being, their overall 00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:32.740 well -being as a child, just the fact that they 00:03:32.740 --> 00:03:36.780 can take their time. and the benefit that it's 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:39.819 been to our attachment as well has been fantastic 00:03:39.819 --> 00:03:43.139 but yeah so that's how I became a mom educate 00:03:43.139 --> 00:03:48.020 home educator but most recently my journey now 00:03:48.020 --> 00:03:50.979 into being on the other side of the desk from 00:03:50.979 --> 00:03:53.699 where I would sit as a parent as a movement therapist 00:03:53.699 --> 00:03:57.080 it was kind of natural to be honest because we 00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:58.819 and I know we're going to talk about this a lot 00:03:58.819 --> 00:04:04.219 today waited and waited and waited for occupational 00:04:04.219 --> 00:04:08.020 therapy, for sensory diets. And it got to a point 00:04:08.020 --> 00:04:10.699 where I just became really impatient with it 00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:13.840 and said, well, you know, my poor kiddo is sitting 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.879 here. Their needs don't change. Their needs don't 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:21.519 pause. They will just actually get harder to 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:23.540 deal with as they grow. And especially if they're 00:04:23.540 --> 00:04:25.639 not met. And I was noticing my son started to 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.819 kind of maladapt to certain things. And I was 00:04:29.819 --> 00:04:31.800 like, nope. I've got to do something. What can 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:35.360 I do? What do you mean by that maladapt? So maladaptation, 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:38.199 you know, kids are built to survive. They're 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:41.920 built to cope and they will try to cope with 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.300 whatever skill they have at that time. And so 00:04:45.300 --> 00:04:47.100 for him, you know, in the sensory environment, 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:50.600 his way of dealing with an extreme noise sensitivity 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:53.600 at the time was to be louder than the noise. 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.360 And I think that is quite common. Yes. And he 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:58.060 was, you know, he was very little at the time. 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:01.829 But I noticed... the change pretty quickly from, 00:05:01.889 --> 00:05:05.189 you know, guarding against the noise to making, 00:05:05.269 --> 00:05:09.269 just start to scream and, you know, bang on things. 00:05:10.290 --> 00:05:12.490 And I thought, hang on, that's really distressing 00:05:12.490 --> 00:05:14.750 behavior for you because I can see his little 00:05:14.750 --> 00:05:17.350 body was really struggling through it. And I 00:05:17.350 --> 00:05:19.290 was offering all the things, you know, have some 00:05:19.290 --> 00:05:21.790 ear defenders, have this, have that. And for 00:05:21.790 --> 00:05:23.649 him at that time, that was the only way that 00:05:23.649 --> 00:05:25.889 he could in his nervous system cope with that. 00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:28.939 So I did the thing that all moms do, parents 00:05:28.939 --> 00:05:31.939 do when you are either waiting for a diagnosis 00:05:31.939 --> 00:05:35.560 and, you know, there's very little steer. I make 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:38.319 a bit of a joke of it on my Instagram account 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.819 and I film some skits to tell my story because 00:05:40.819 --> 00:05:42.800 some of the most ridiculous things that I've 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.980 heard in a GP's office or, you know, waiting 00:05:46.980 --> 00:05:51.670 for SLT or trying to explain to an OT what. is 00:05:51.670 --> 00:05:54.250 happening at home but yeah I've just been waiting 00:05:54.250 --> 00:05:56.230 a really long time and I thought I'm going to 00:05:56.230 --> 00:05:58.810 start reading and as I read I thought well I 00:05:58.810 --> 00:06:02.329 can try and apply some of these things and that 00:06:02.329 --> 00:06:05.769 led me down a path of maybe I should retrain 00:06:05.769 --> 00:06:07.670 seeing as I've read all of the books on the shelf 00:06:07.670 --> 00:06:09.829 and luckily I was working with a play therapist 00:06:09.829 --> 00:06:12.449 for both my kids at the time and she was so excited 00:06:12.449 --> 00:06:16.430 about me you know possibly retraining and she 00:06:16.430 --> 00:06:19.290 you know helped me find some courses some training 00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:22.610 pathways and that kind of led me to this amazing 00:06:22.610 --> 00:06:25.170 therapy the neurodevelopmental movement therapy 00:06:25.170 --> 00:06:27.670 which includes reflex integration and sensory 00:06:27.670 --> 00:06:30.329 mapping all of that as part of it and I qualified 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:33.910 last year and I'm so happy that I've done that 00:06:33.910 --> 00:06:36.870 the work that I've done with my own kids has 00:06:36.870 --> 00:06:39.329 been really transformative for them and I'm a 00:06:39.329 --> 00:06:43.069 little bit more about what movement therapy is 00:06:43.069 --> 00:06:45.449 and entails and includes because I don't know 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:47.420 I don't know if many people have heard of it. 00:06:47.459 --> 00:06:51.759 I don't know exactly what it entails. What makes 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:53.839 movement therapy different? Why is it different? 00:06:54.420 --> 00:06:57.579 That's a really good question. So I think everyone 00:06:57.579 --> 00:07:00.699 would be familiar if I said occupational therapy. 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:03.160 Everyone would kind of know loosely what that 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:07.199 looks like. So movement therapy is part of occupational 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:10.939 therapy. It would be almost like an additional 00:07:10.939 --> 00:07:13.000 qualification that an occupational therapist 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:16.610 would do. if they wanted to support a child on 00:07:16.610 --> 00:07:19.829 a more foundational level. I think it's very 00:07:19.829 --> 00:07:23.310 popular in Europe. It's probably one of the first 00:07:23.310 --> 00:07:25.370 therapies that you'd be offered if you, for example, 00:07:25.370 --> 00:07:28.189 had a diagnosis in Denmark. And that is exactly 00:07:28.189 --> 00:07:30.170 where the therapy comes from. It was pioneered 00:07:30.170 --> 00:07:32.629 in Denmark. If you're interested by a doctor 00:07:32.629 --> 00:07:34.550 called Harold Blomberg, you can see his book 00:07:34.550 --> 00:07:36.189 right here, actually, in my little blue book. 00:07:36.910 --> 00:07:39.029 movements that heal. That was actually one of 00:07:39.029 --> 00:07:41.389 the first books that I read when I was kind of 00:07:41.389 --> 00:07:43.529 suspicious that we may have all the HD in the 00:07:43.529 --> 00:07:45.949 house. But since the 70s, it's really gained 00:07:45.949 --> 00:07:47.970 a lot of traction. There's a lot of really good 00:07:47.970 --> 00:07:51.470 research with regards to how it positively impacts 00:07:51.470 --> 00:07:54.709 the nervous system. But what it is, is it starts 00:07:54.709 --> 00:07:58.910 with attachment. So whoever the patient is, and 00:07:58.910 --> 00:08:01.350 that for me is usually the child, being that 00:08:01.350 --> 00:08:04.930 that's... kind of my bag. I've got kids, I've 00:08:04.930 --> 00:08:08.310 worked with kids, I understand how to approach 00:08:08.310 --> 00:08:11.129 children. But it's also being applied quite widely 00:08:11.129 --> 00:08:14.850 with early onset dementia or kind of adult neurological 00:08:14.850 --> 00:08:17.670 disorders like Parkinson's. Actually, I've been 00:08:17.670 --> 00:08:21.850 helping my lovely dad who's got early stage Parkinson's 00:08:21.850 --> 00:08:23.569 and it's been really helpful for him for neurological 00:08:23.569 --> 00:08:27.009 pain. But back to kids. So it starts with, let's 00:08:27.009 --> 00:08:30.259 say, the child. And then you would need the parent 00:08:30.259 --> 00:08:33.659 caregiver, the safe adult, that could also be 00:08:33.659 --> 00:08:36.399 a teacher or a TA if it's being applied in the 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:40.379 classroom, present, and then the therapist. And 00:08:40.379 --> 00:08:43.720 what it basically is, it's a range of very, it 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:47.200 starts with innate rhythmic movements. So those 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:52.279 are very simple, very... small quite relaxed 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:55.179 calming movements they're very easy to embed 00:08:55.179 --> 00:08:58.320 in play and they're actually fantastic for kind 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:00.960 of a bedtime routine because most of them are 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:03.299 done lying down if you think about the movements 00:09:03.299 --> 00:09:06.120 that a baby would make when they're just starting 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.559 to move their body there's a lot of rocking a 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:12.120 lot of rolling very gentle but very rhythmic 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:15.389 movements and we can sing together We can breathe 00:09:15.389 --> 00:09:18.870 together. You can use gentle tapping. And what 00:09:18.870 --> 00:09:21.629 that basically does is it causes the nervous 00:09:21.629 --> 00:09:26.029 system to come into repose. So you are down -regulating. 00:09:26.610 --> 00:09:30.409 The blood pressure drops. The body relaxes. And 00:09:30.409 --> 00:09:32.490 you're starting to access a part of the brain 00:09:32.490 --> 00:09:35.970 at the back called the cerebellum, which is responsible 00:09:35.970 --> 00:09:38.789 for most function. And it's kind of the gatekeeper 00:09:38.789 --> 00:09:41.909 between the kind of infant brain, the limbic 00:09:41.909 --> 00:09:44.769 brain. the lizard brain that people call it sometimes, 00:09:45.029 --> 00:09:48.049 and the cortex, the higher function here. Everything 00:09:48.049 --> 00:09:50.850 has to wire up that way from the spine. And what 00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:55.009 it does, it accesses that quite infantile part 00:09:55.009 --> 00:09:57.409 of the brain. And especially in a neurodiverse 00:09:57.409 --> 00:10:01.009 brain, it allows the neurological connections 00:10:01.009 --> 00:10:04.610 that were made in early life to just revisit 00:10:04.610 --> 00:10:09.210 how they're wired. So that can mean that any 00:10:09.210 --> 00:10:11.789 connections that weren't made Because of, you 00:10:11.789 --> 00:10:15.250 know, I don't know, birth trauma or infant illness 00:10:15.250 --> 00:10:18.929 or... Yes. So it's really prevalent in neurodivergence 00:10:18.929 --> 00:10:21.990 actually just because of the way the neurology 00:10:21.990 --> 00:10:24.009 forms. And that's because, I mean, there's so 00:10:24.009 --> 00:10:26.169 much research about this. It'd be very easy to 00:10:26.169 --> 00:10:30.070 look it up yourself on Google. But autism, neurodivergence 00:10:30.070 --> 00:10:33.830 of any sort, is a neurological difference. Neurodivergence. 00:10:33.990 --> 00:10:37.769 The actual connection in the brain forms at a 00:10:37.769 --> 00:10:41.190 slower pace. The synapses, which is where the 00:10:41.190 --> 00:10:43.970 electricity fires between two different parts 00:10:43.970 --> 00:10:46.909 of that connection, forms at a slower pace. And 00:10:46.909 --> 00:10:49.830 sometimes it forms multiple connections. And 00:10:49.830 --> 00:10:53.350 what would normally happen in an holistic body, 00:10:53.470 --> 00:10:56.070 a non -neurodiverse body, is that those connections, 00:10:56.169 --> 00:10:59.350 when they're unused, would die off. They would... 00:10:59.710 --> 00:11:01.710 stripped back they would prune that's the word 00:11:01.710 --> 00:11:04.809 that people use so that's one reason why i called 00:11:04.809 --> 00:11:06.970 my therapy root rise and learn that's my little 00:11:06.970 --> 00:11:09.690 practice name because an autistic brain does 00:11:09.690 --> 00:11:11.990 look like roots um you know for example let's 00:11:11.990 --> 00:11:16.350 say i want to stand up very simple signal that 00:11:16.350 --> 00:11:18.590 signal might have to go from here to here to 00:11:18.590 --> 00:11:22.490 get to my legs but in a child with any sort of 00:11:22.490 --> 00:11:24.649 neurological difference that signal may get to 00:11:24.649 --> 00:11:26.909 here but then fire in six different directions 00:11:26.909 --> 00:11:30.610 because the brain hasn't been able to get past 00:11:30.610 --> 00:11:33.450 this blockage for many reasons, and it hasn't 00:11:33.450 --> 00:11:36.529 been able to prune off all the other pathways. 00:11:37.490 --> 00:11:40.009 So for it to get from here to here takes a lot 00:11:40.009 --> 00:11:42.110 more time and effort, and sometimes it misfires. 00:11:42.330 --> 00:11:44.789 And that's why often with neurodivergence, we 00:11:44.789 --> 00:11:46.629 see a lot of gross motor issues. That's kind 00:11:46.629 --> 00:11:50.570 of the first big flag is, oh, they didn't crawl 00:11:50.570 --> 00:11:52.529 for a very long time, or they didn't walk, or 00:11:52.529 --> 00:11:56.679 they skipped crawling. and just stood up. Or 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:00.220 in later life, postural issues and then fine 00:12:00.220 --> 00:12:02.600 motor issues. Obviously, if gross motor issues 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.159 struggle, fine motor issues absolutely will be 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:07.840 problematic. So what this therapy does is it 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:11.820 targets that one pathway. We take it right back 00:12:11.820 --> 00:12:14.519 to the earliest kind of developmental stage that 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:19.419 we can find. And we then send positive input, 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.340 positive sensory input in the right direction, 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.029 repetitively. So it's basically almost like a 00:12:26.029 --> 00:12:29.129 manual reset for some of the neurology in the 00:12:29.129 --> 00:12:33.289 brain. And I can say in my own kids who had, 00:12:33.470 --> 00:12:37.549 I mean, even three or four years ago, and I did 00:12:37.549 --> 00:12:40.570 their sensory profiles myself, very serious sensory 00:12:40.570 --> 00:12:43.529 issues, very serious. You know, we had a full 00:12:43.529 --> 00:12:47.769 -on ARFID diagnosis. My daughter was functionally 00:12:47.769 --> 00:12:50.149 deaf in a room where there were more than two 00:12:50.149 --> 00:12:54.379 people. Extreme tactile issues. Noise sensitivity, 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:57.940 the whole bag. You know, it has taken time. But 00:12:57.940 --> 00:13:00.659 now, you know, my son's eating has come on so 00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:04.820 much. We are now borderline. Are we still ARFID? 00:13:04.940 --> 00:13:07.919 Are we not? My daughter's auditory processing 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:10.519 is still auditory processing disorder. However, 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:15.679 her adaptation in an environment is a lot more 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:19.580 comfortable and I guess more natural. And I can 00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:22.240 see also gross motor skills have come on so, 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:25.509 so far. We had a lot of cross -body issues, couldn't 00:13:25.509 --> 00:13:28.690 catch. And, you know, to the extent where if 00:13:28.690 --> 00:13:30.789 I put a ball anywhere near either of my children, 00:13:30.850 --> 00:13:34.250 they'd freak out. But now, you know, and it wasn't 00:13:34.250 --> 00:13:37.110 that we were practicing catching. We were doing 00:13:37.110 --> 00:13:40.210 these little exercises together, reflex integration 00:13:40.210 --> 00:13:43.309 exercises for probably about a period of 18 months. 00:13:43.789 --> 00:13:45.629 And now, you know, my son's joining a football 00:13:45.629 --> 00:13:51.370 camp next week. So I've seen the positives out 00:13:51.370 --> 00:13:54.679 of this. But I think the biggest positive actually 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.860 is in our relationship because like, well, many 00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:02.159 other therapies, it relies on that sense of security 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:05.200 between the child and whoever's doing the therapy. 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:07.960 And I think this works so well in the home and 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:10.440 with families because of exactly that. Like it 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.080 relies on that safe person. And I would much 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:18.220 rather give parents the tools to do this safely. 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:21.080 parents, caregivers, teachers, you know, wherever 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:22.860 child is spending the majority of their time, 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.200 to do this safely, to build attachments. Because 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.620 I think a healthy attachment, you can do anything 00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:31.179 with that. A healthy attachment and a regulated 00:14:31.179 --> 00:14:35.080 child and the world's your oyster, right? Yeah. 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.279 And it sounds errorless to me. So in that mind, 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:41.340 they can't fail at it. Therefore, it's boosting 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:43.419 that confidence, building that trust and that 00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:47.139 loyalty. Is the... impact of movement because 00:14:47.139 --> 00:14:50.559 it is very movement based it was also impacting 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:54.200 so many other areas of the sensory system is 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:57.059 that because the nervous system as a whole is 00:14:57.059 --> 00:15:00.200 more grounded and rooted therefore they can cope 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:02.019 with other things or is it more than that what 00:15:02.019 --> 00:15:05.120 does the evidence show in that respect it's probably 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.700 a bit of both I think when a child is really 00:15:07.700 --> 00:15:10.580 well regulated, it's almost like all the lights 00:15:10.580 --> 00:15:13.460 are green and they're much more receptive. So 00:15:13.460 --> 00:15:15.980 I think, you know, that's why I do advocate for 00:15:15.980 --> 00:15:18.659 it being starting with attachment. And, you know, 00:15:18.659 --> 00:15:22.379 we call it heart connection because if we can 00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:25.440 turn the lights green, then you can really see, 00:15:25.580 --> 00:15:28.879 okay. where what's what's actually happening 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:31.779 in the child at this point in time but the science 00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:34.759 is I mean it's fascinating and I'm still learning 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:38.899 as I as I go and reading and there's more research 00:15:38.899 --> 00:15:41.860 coming out every every couple of weeks at the 00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:44.559 moment this is a really popular therapy in America 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:47.259 at the moment and actually I think probably people 00:15:47.259 --> 00:15:50.720 will have seen stuff pop up online which I'd 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:52.399 like to talk about they might have seen kind 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.629 of The moro reflex seems to be quite fashionable 00:15:55.629 --> 00:15:57.570 at the moment. And there's people kind of throwing 00:15:57.570 --> 00:15:59.769 kids over balls. Don't do that. Don't do that. 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:03.149 But, you know, that might ring bells. But the 00:16:03.149 --> 00:16:06.690 research is really interesting. So my kind of 00:16:06.690 --> 00:16:10.649 current rabbit hole of scientific exploration 00:16:10.649 --> 00:16:14.049 is the connection between the neurology of the 00:16:14.049 --> 00:16:17.840 hand and of the mouse in the sensory motor. function 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.259 of of the kind of oral sensory area and that's 00:16:21.259 --> 00:16:23.279 been interesting for me because my little girl 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:26.299 has a speech and language delay she's a gestalt 00:16:26.299 --> 00:16:29.500 processor it's so much fun some of the things 00:16:29.500 --> 00:16:33.019 that she comes out with love it but you know 00:16:33.019 --> 00:16:35.860 she had a lot of kind of oral motory issue oral 00:16:35.860 --> 00:16:40.139 motor issues just with the formation of words 00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:43.519 and we spent so much time in SLT we had a lovely 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:47.340 SLT But it wasn't really until I really started 00:16:47.340 --> 00:16:49.080 kind of putting these two things together because 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.080 of my training that I started gaining traction. 00:16:52.460 --> 00:16:56.059 And it all, just to briefly go into the science, 00:16:56.220 --> 00:16:59.840 starts in early infancy. So one of the reflexes, 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:03.799 it's called Palmar -Babkin reflex and the grasp 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:06.220 reflex. So if you've ever been near a newborn, 00:17:06.579 --> 00:17:09.740 they will hold on to anything that you put in 00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:13.059 their palm. And if they're stimulated anywhere 00:17:13.059 --> 00:17:15.880 near their palm, they will try and grasp. And 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:18.420 that's really critical because their instinct 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:22.299 is my caregiver is trying to feed me. So I will 00:17:22.299 --> 00:17:24.380 close my hand and open my mouth. And there is 00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:26.559 a, you know, the neurology all flows through 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.160 the same kind of port here at the back of the 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:31.839 neck in the cerebellum. Now, there's also research 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:34.559 to say that particularly with autism spectrum. 00:17:35.309 --> 00:17:38.029 that there is a developmental delay in the biology 00:17:38.029 --> 00:17:40.470 of the cerebellum. So, you know, both my kids 00:17:40.470 --> 00:17:43.069 had feeding issues when they were very little. 00:17:43.190 --> 00:17:44.569 I think it's not when I talk to parents on the 00:17:44.569 --> 00:17:48.630 podcast that that is so often a missed but early 00:17:48.630 --> 00:17:51.609 sign when they look back. Oh, of course they 00:17:51.609 --> 00:17:53.630 had apraxia. Of course they were going to be 00:17:53.630 --> 00:17:57.369 non -speaking or pre -verbal. We could see those 00:17:57.369 --> 00:18:03.509 oral motor challenges right from the start. Yeah, 00:18:03.529 --> 00:18:07.250 absolutely. So, I mean, the way that these reflexes 00:18:07.250 --> 00:18:09.210 work, they really do impact this. And they also 00:18:09.210 --> 00:18:12.009 impact auditory processing. Because depending 00:18:12.009 --> 00:18:16.690 on how much your infant struggles with feeding 00:18:16.690 --> 00:18:19.509 in those early days, it depends on how, you know, 00:18:19.569 --> 00:18:22.029 it will affect how their head is placed, which 00:18:22.029 --> 00:18:25.150 ear is open to the environment and needs to be 00:18:25.150 --> 00:18:27.509 processed through. And are they receiving... 00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:30.440 feeding on one side versus the other side or 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.019 you know my son for example would only feed sitting 00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:36.819 up so it's a completely different sensory input 00:18:36.819 --> 00:18:39.079 that they're getting and the amount that a baby 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:42.759 feeds right that's a constant affirmation of 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:46.559 that sensory pathway in one way or another So 00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:48.700 when we started with my daughter working on her 00:18:48.700 --> 00:18:51.900 palmar reflex, and yes, there were lots of kind 00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:54.980 of paper scrunching exercises and lots of, you 00:18:54.980 --> 00:18:58.539 know, gentle circle drawing and trying to, you 00:18:58.539 --> 00:19:01.940 know, isolate fingers and gripping things as 00:19:01.940 --> 00:19:05.059 tightly as we could. Interestingly, I have a 00:19:05.059 --> 00:19:08.119 little video of her, which I'm kind of dubious 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:09.819 to share because I'm really worried about sharing 00:19:09.819 --> 00:19:12.059 kids on the internet. Maybe I'll act it out. 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:14.000 Maybe I'll do that. I'll turn it into a skit. 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:19.700 But when we started at the very start of me applying 00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:22.619 this with my own kiddos, when she scrunched anything 00:19:22.619 --> 00:19:25.900 up, the reflex to open her mouth and stick her 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:28.740 tongue out was so strong that she actually had 00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:31.619 to stop and she said out because it was such 00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:34.160 a strong reflex. And, you know, I could see it 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.319 kind of gradually integrating and becoming less 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.079 prevalent. We had so much fun. It's so easy to 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:43.359 embed this in play. It's so easy to embed this 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.200 in play. We were dragons, you know, scrunching 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:50.200 and exhaling and shouting. And we learned about 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.579 the Maori. So we were doing lots of kind of facial 00:19:52.579 --> 00:19:56.279 exercises. But yes, I mean, it's such a great 00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:00.440 therapy to use at home, especially if you home 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.839 educate, because your connection with your kids 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.099 is, well, it never stops, really. Yeah, absolutely. 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.230 And then you mentioned that the big... beginning 00:20:09.230 --> 00:20:11.670 when you were explaining about it that it's with 00:20:11.670 --> 00:20:15.069 the supporting adult and the therapist is that 00:20:15.069 --> 00:20:19.029 always how it's done or eventually can the safe 00:20:19.029 --> 00:20:21.210 adult the supporting adult learn enough from 00:20:21.210 --> 00:20:22.990 the therapist that they could do it one -to -one 00:20:22.990 --> 00:20:24.970 with the child how does that transition work 00:20:24.970 --> 00:20:29.190 yeah so I think I was thinking through this as 00:20:29.190 --> 00:20:33.089 a parent to highly sensitive kids If I introduced 00:20:33.089 --> 00:20:35.450 a random stranger into the house, nothing's going 00:20:35.450 --> 00:20:38.569 to happen. It's not a positive experience. So 00:20:38.569 --> 00:20:43.390 I think what I would suggest now, and this is 00:20:43.390 --> 00:20:45.970 kind of against how it would be practiced in 00:20:45.970 --> 00:20:48.670 the field, is to actually work directly with 00:20:48.670 --> 00:20:51.950 the parent or caregiver first. Okay. And for 00:20:51.950 --> 00:20:55.150 them to then try and apply it at home. You know, 00:20:55.170 --> 00:20:58.589 we can use other checks and balances. Can you... 00:20:58.890 --> 00:21:01.809 film what happens can you explain what happens 00:21:01.809 --> 00:21:04.809 can you record and let's listen back be really 00:21:04.809 --> 00:21:09.250 observant I'm a huge advocate for kind of Montessori 00:21:09.250 --> 00:21:11.829 style observation I think knowing the child is 00:21:11.829 --> 00:21:14.710 so important and watching for the smallest signals 00:21:14.710 --> 00:21:16.950 little twitch here are they holding their breath 00:21:16.950 --> 00:21:19.089 are they tensing what's tensing is it the big 00:21:19.089 --> 00:21:20.990 toe just the big toe or is it the whole foot 00:21:20.990 --> 00:21:24.349 the whole leg you know very in -depth observation 00:21:24.349 --> 00:21:29.180 and then what I think it's best to be done parent 00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:33.039 to child or caregiver to child and then if you 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:36.319 know at some point they feel comfortable to have 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:39.140 me in the room or even on on a zoom chat in the 00:21:39.140 --> 00:21:43.200 corner i can observe and help that way but i 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:45.740 mean really like you said it is errorless you 00:21:45.740 --> 00:21:49.980 know you you can't injure a child with the very 00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:54.460 gentle motion and a very strong relational connection 00:21:54.460 --> 00:21:59.819 which is why When I see kind of these, you know, 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:04.980 one minute Instagram reel therapy suggestions, 00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:09.579 quick fix suggestions popping up and, you know, 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:13.220 children are being thrown over peanut balls or 00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:15.819 spun around really fast and you can integrate 00:22:15.819 --> 00:22:17.980 their reflex by doing this a thousand times. 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:21.410 Don't do that to a child. Don't. It's a very 00:22:21.410 --> 00:22:23.430 gentle exercise, has to be approached really 00:22:23.430 --> 00:22:25.930 carefully because you're talking to the neurology. 00:22:25.930 --> 00:22:27.809 You don't want to send something off in the wrong 00:22:27.809 --> 00:22:31.170 direction or traumatize the child or worse, you 00:22:31.170 --> 00:22:35.609 know, these retained reflexes can reemerge. especially 00:22:35.609 --> 00:22:38.730 in neurodivergent children or adults because 00:22:38.730 --> 00:22:41.609 the neurology is you know like tree roots there's 00:22:41.609 --> 00:22:44.769 almost too much present they can re -emerge you 00:22:44.769 --> 00:22:47.450 don't want that to happen you know suddenly you're 00:22:47.450 --> 00:22:49.529 getting that professional support even if you're 00:22:49.529 --> 00:22:51.430 the one leading the therapy with your child that 00:22:51.430 --> 00:22:53.589 you've got those professional eyes on to make 00:22:53.589 --> 00:22:56.049 sure that you are doing it in a safe way for 00:22:56.049 --> 00:22:59.269 their bodies exactly exactly especially if they're 00:22:59.269 --> 00:23:04.279 highly sensitive that i I was trying to explain 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:06.660 this to one of my first clients. I was like, 00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:10.740 use the loaf of bread test. If you wouldn't do 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:12.819 it to a loaf of bread that you've just bought 00:23:12.819 --> 00:23:14.599 from the shop because you know it's going to 00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:18.380 squish, don't do it to a child. Very gentle hands, 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.500 very gentle motion, right? We should definitely 00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:23.940 be caring for our children more than loaves of 00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:26.799 bread. But I think, you know, it is very difficult 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:30.420 because especially, you know, going through my 00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:33.819 own kind of un... undeschooling, unschooling 00:23:33.819 --> 00:23:36.640 process, having been a teacher for many years, 00:23:36.740 --> 00:23:42.000 I realize now as an adult, as a ADHD adult, a 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.359 lot of my kind of assumed practice or behavior 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:49.339 as a parent or a teacher was influenced by, you 00:23:49.339 --> 00:23:51.500 know, I guess like a generational difference 00:23:51.500 --> 00:23:54.759 that now, I mean, isn't it wonderful and exciting 00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:57.079 to be in a season where we can question those 00:23:57.079 --> 00:24:00.119 things and do make different choices, make gentler 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.430 choices. Yeah. And the right choice is for you 00:24:03.430 --> 00:24:06.410 and your family. And it feels like that's respected. 00:24:06.569 --> 00:24:09.190 There's a greater respect and understanding for 00:24:09.190 --> 00:24:12.190 that than ever, I feel. Yes, exactly. I think 00:24:12.190 --> 00:24:15.650 the family unit is so important. And whatever 00:24:15.650 --> 00:24:19.089 your family looks like, whatever the caregiving 00:24:19.089 --> 00:24:21.650 unit looks like. And, you know, I didn't go as 00:24:21.650 --> 00:24:25.029 far as to say, you know, if you're in a learning 00:24:25.029 --> 00:24:27.529 environment or you're in a setting and you are. 00:24:28.009 --> 00:24:30.069 the adult in charge or there are other adults 00:24:30.069 --> 00:24:32.609 present there, you do form a little nervous system. 00:24:32.670 --> 00:24:35.890 You form a little family during that time. And 00:24:35.890 --> 00:24:38.190 it's so important for children to feel rooted 00:24:38.190 --> 00:24:41.910 and secure in whatever familial situation they're 00:24:41.910 --> 00:24:46.150 in. Yeah. And children spend so much time of 00:24:46.150 --> 00:24:49.950 their day at school if they're at a setting. 00:24:50.289 --> 00:24:53.950 They're incredibly influential. Exactly. I fully 00:24:53.950 --> 00:24:57.299 agree. Fully agree. Yeah, in a good way and bad 00:24:57.299 --> 00:25:00.079 way sometimes, you know, depending on the environment 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.359 and the child suitability to that environment. 00:25:03.220 --> 00:25:06.799 Exactly, exactly. And I think one of the things 00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:09.079 that I'm quite passionate about advocating for 00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:11.660 is a family's right to make the right choice 00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:14.660 for their. child and whatever that choice might 00:25:14.660 --> 00:25:17.900 be I'm very passionate about home education about 00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:20.319 EOTAS I know you've just recently done a whole 00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:24.119 podcast on EOTAS but you know for whatever situation 00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.839 you're finding yourself in is to firstly be able 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.440 to access the right support and secondly to be 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:33.740 supported in making neuroaffirming choices along 00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:36.519 the way yeah for yourself and your children and 00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:38.920 sometimes home education is appropriate for your 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:40.779 children but it might not be appropriate or safe 00:25:40.779 --> 00:25:44.670 for you right now So it's really important to 00:25:44.670 --> 00:25:48.730 manage your whole family. Your whole family dynamic. 00:25:49.089 --> 00:25:52.369 Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, one of 00:25:52.369 --> 00:25:55.029 the lovely things that I also get to do is that 00:25:55.029 --> 00:25:58.150 I get to talk families through those choices. 00:25:58.230 --> 00:26:00.869 And, you know, that slightly left of my therapy 00:26:00.869 --> 00:26:05.069 hat and more into the, well, I've seen all sides 00:26:05.069 --> 00:26:08.829 of education and I'm a mom and I've walked through 00:26:08.829 --> 00:26:12.529 all of this diagnostic. pathways and waiting 00:26:12.529 --> 00:26:16.630 lists and we're still on a waiting list for Tourette's 00:26:16.630 --> 00:26:20.109 diagnosis I feel like parents like yourself are 00:26:20.109 --> 00:26:23.490 forever on a waiting list for something or forever 00:26:23.490 --> 00:26:26.769 forever waiting and then your child has a growth 00:26:26.769 --> 00:26:30.309 spurt or a developmental change and then something 00:26:30.309 --> 00:26:33.390 else comes up and you're you're back on on that 00:26:33.390 --> 00:26:36.990 what does that do for a parent for teachers that 00:26:36.990 --> 00:26:39.640 are listening How does it feel to live in that 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:42.619 space of constantly advocating, fighting, waiting, 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.460 filling out forms, waiting again, proving yourself, 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:50.259 not being believed? What is that like? Can you 00:26:50.259 --> 00:26:54.500 explain that? It's exhausting, firstly, because 00:26:54.500 --> 00:26:58.079 you're doing all of that whilst still parenting, 00:26:58.279 --> 00:27:02.420 often in high stress environments, with your 00:27:02.420 --> 00:27:05.660 child who you adore, with every fibre of your 00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:09.230 being, and you would... do anything to help them 00:27:09.230 --> 00:27:13.109 just be okay, just for one day, for one hour. 00:27:13.210 --> 00:27:17.849 And it is very isolating because once you are 00:27:17.849 --> 00:27:21.250 on that waiting list or, you know, you are a 00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:25.230 patient and it is a professional medical situation. 00:27:25.710 --> 00:27:29.910 And, you know, I have had... a very mixed bag 00:27:29.910 --> 00:27:32.490 personally and I know I'm not alone I've spoken 00:27:32.490 --> 00:27:34.569 to a lot of families who are in a similar situation 00:27:34.569 --> 00:27:36.950 some in really difficult situations and then 00:27:36.950 --> 00:27:39.130 some who are able to afford to go privately and 00:27:39.130 --> 00:27:41.269 you know have a have a whole different experience 00:27:41.269 --> 00:27:45.750 but broadly there isn't a lot of compassion towards 00:27:45.750 --> 00:27:50.509 the parent in those initial circumstances and 00:27:50.509 --> 00:27:52.410 there are a lot of questions about environment 00:27:52.410 --> 00:27:56.589 and there need to be but I think if you are in 00:27:56.589 --> 00:28:00.619 the thick of things It is depressing. It is exhausting. 00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:04.779 It is demoralizing. And you do, honestly, you 00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:07.660 start kind of feeling like you're going a little 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:10.039 loopy because you start questioning yourself. 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:12.079 Well, is this my fault? You have to believe that 00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:14.539 blame and shame that's being put on you. Yeah. 00:28:14.660 --> 00:28:18.299 And the parent shaming really is, I think, probably 00:28:18.299 --> 00:28:20.420 what I would say is one of the biggest problems 00:28:20.420 --> 00:28:23.880 at the moment in that. in that kind of medical 00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:27.799 pathway world, diagnostic pathway. And I've experienced 00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:30.940 it. I've walked into an occupational therapy 00:28:30.940 --> 00:28:34.160 setting where, you know, they've known from my 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.400 brief that I'm, you know, I'm qualified. I've 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:38.960 done this for a long time. I've worked in settings. 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:41.980 I've been able to very thoroughly explain what 00:28:41.980 --> 00:28:45.920 I can see is happening and have still been taken 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.779 down a peg. for some of the choices that I've 00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:51.460 made for my kids or completely left to field 00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:53.099 things I was like wow that feels like a cheap 00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:59.440 shot yeah I've seen it before nurses or you know 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.599 whatever you know highly intelligent intellectual 00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:05.480 able to write these letters and send these forms 00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:09.640 and and do the research and and still being closed 00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:11.839 having like closed doors you know slammed in 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.180 their face it just makes you think if that's 00:29:14.180 --> 00:29:17.440 happening to you guys How are the parents that 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.039 are illiterate or disabled themselves or struggling 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:26.619 multiple siblings with complex needs, how are 00:29:26.619 --> 00:29:29.980 they able to even start the process? It's so 00:29:29.980 --> 00:29:33.059 ableist in its format, isn't it? Enormously, 00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:35.759 yeah. Enormously ableist. And, you know, I mean, 00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:37.980 at the moment I'm working with a lovely single 00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:41.980 mum. who has three kids on the spectrum, various 00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:45.359 educational choices made for benefit. And she's 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:48.660 fantastic. She is on it. And we're going through 00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:52.140 DLA applications at the moment. And it's horrific. 00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:55.779 And I, you know, I just sat with her and said, 00:29:55.819 --> 00:29:58.619 look, just take your time. It's okay. Like, it's 00:29:58.619 --> 00:30:02.339 okay. We can do it together. We can find a way 00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:04.910 through this. She's dyslexic. It's really difficult 00:30:04.910 --> 00:30:07.109 completing a form when you're dyslexic. All the 00:30:07.109 --> 00:30:08.730 forms are horrendous anyway, all the forms are 00:30:08.730 --> 00:30:10.490 actually, because you always have to say what 00:30:10.490 --> 00:30:13.269 your child can't do, what they struggle with, 00:30:13.390 --> 00:30:16.069 what their failures are. And yet all we want 00:30:16.069 --> 00:30:19.230 to see as parents and educators is that we want 00:30:19.230 --> 00:30:21.869 to share all this joy. We want to celebrate them. 00:30:22.210 --> 00:30:25.190 And there's no space, there's no page on the 00:30:25.190 --> 00:30:27.549 form for that. In fact, it would go against what 00:30:27.549 --> 00:30:29.190 you're trying to do. It would go against benefiting 00:30:29.190 --> 00:30:31.559 the children if we were to do that. And that 00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:37.519 just feels so wrong. And that's before any dyslexia 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.880 or form anxiety and trauma and, you know, so 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:46.000 much, so much. So many barriers to why these 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:49.319 children aren't, you know, aren't getting the 00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:52.279 support that they very, very rightly deserve. 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.579 Exactly. And, you know, they're always somewhere 00:30:55.579 --> 00:31:00.089 at the bottom of the food chain. you're you know 00:31:00.089 --> 00:31:02.890 holding so many things together as a parent or 00:31:02.890 --> 00:31:06.109 caregiver and you know you want to be channeling 00:31:06.109 --> 00:31:08.349 all the help towards the children but very often 00:31:08.349 --> 00:31:11.509 there's so little coming in yeah and that was 00:31:11.509 --> 00:31:14.009 my experience personally it was a really dark 00:31:14.009 --> 00:31:17.650 time you know it was post -covid I had two under 00:31:17.650 --> 00:31:21.230 four not speaking the other not eating neither 00:31:21.230 --> 00:31:24.170 one of them sleeping I was exhausted trying to 00:31:24.170 --> 00:31:28.140 you know find support we're on diagnostic pathway 00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:31.559 just waiting waiting waiting and you have to 00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:34.240 find a way of surviving in that circumstance 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.799 and you know I'm trying to be now the change 00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:41.890 that I wish I had access to and There is, there 00:31:41.890 --> 00:31:44.210 are places that people can go. You know, I'm 00:31:44.210 --> 00:31:47.230 lucky where I live now. Our borough here has 00:31:47.230 --> 00:31:50.150 a really great autism advisory service, but it 00:31:50.150 --> 00:31:53.589 only goes so far. And very rarely are they willing 00:31:53.589 --> 00:31:56.069 or able to talk about your personal situation 00:31:56.069 --> 00:31:58.690 and to, you know, just look slightly outside 00:31:58.690 --> 00:32:01.049 of the box. And that's really difficult when 00:32:01.049 --> 00:32:04.950 you have all the HD, which is its own whole world 00:32:04.950 --> 00:32:09.809 of concern. And, you know, there are. whatsapp 00:32:09.809 --> 00:32:12.670 groups and there are facebook groups and i i 00:32:12.670 --> 00:32:16.650 joined as many as i could and some were helpful 00:32:16.650 --> 00:32:21.009 some were really depressing yeah it can be overwhelming 00:32:21.009 --> 00:32:27.589 with the huge difference in opinions yeah and 00:32:27.589 --> 00:32:31.849 theories and with research and it can be an absolute 00:32:31.849 --> 00:32:34.269 minefield to know what is right for your child 00:32:34.269 --> 00:32:38.319 there's so much noise isn't there listen to this 00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:41.880 podcast, buy this book, try this gummy. Yeah. 00:32:41.900 --> 00:32:44.619 Yeah. All of it. There's so much noise. And all 00:32:44.619 --> 00:32:48.299 you want to do as a parent is make the right 00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:51.200 choices for your child. And it's so hard to know 00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:55.299 what that looks like. How did you, you said you're 00:32:55.299 --> 00:32:59.279 well -read. How did you navigate that noise to 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:02.299 find what was right for your family? Well, I 00:33:02.299 --> 00:33:06.529 mean, I did and I didn't. There were days where 00:33:06.529 --> 00:33:08.970 I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't 00:33:08.970 --> 00:33:11.109 know what I'm doing. There were days where I, 00:33:11.109 --> 00:33:14.349 you know, I remember kind of probably the worst, 00:33:14.609 --> 00:33:18.829 hardest week of parenting where my son was having 00:33:18.829 --> 00:33:21.730 kind of cascade meltdowns and I needed to go 00:33:21.730 --> 00:33:24.970 to ASDA and I had no help, no support. I thought, 00:33:24.970 --> 00:33:26.470 okay, I'm going to go in the middle of the day. 00:33:26.529 --> 00:33:29.450 It's going to be quiet. I'll put him in the trolley 00:33:29.450 --> 00:33:31.450 where he feels secure. I've got weighted blankets. 00:33:31.650 --> 00:33:34.890 I took the whole shebang. And he had the most 00:33:34.890 --> 00:33:37.529 catastrophic meltdown in Asda. He was pulling 00:33:37.529 --> 00:33:41.410 things off the shelf. I had to get security guard 00:33:41.410 --> 00:33:43.970 to help me keep the trolley upright because he 00:33:43.970 --> 00:33:46.509 was really, it was a real harrowing situation. 00:33:47.309 --> 00:33:49.569 Everyone was safe and it was totally fine in 00:33:49.569 --> 00:33:53.690 the end. But in the moment, I'm just standing 00:33:53.690 --> 00:33:55.490 there thinking, they're going to take my children 00:33:55.490 --> 00:33:59.400 away from me because I... don't feel like and 00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.039 I don't look like I know what I'm doing and you 00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:05.480 know you do attract opinions and looks and glances 00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:09.500 and I mean that was a really I know that is really 00:34:09.500 --> 00:34:11.920 common very few people are willing to say that 00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:15.280 and it's hard to talk about because it's true 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.800 and I think every parent or foster parent I'm 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:19.800 I've a foster parent point of view I completely 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:21.699 resonate with with what you're talking about 00:34:22.489 --> 00:34:24.690 completely resonate and then and then also in 00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:26.949 then this shame and guilt comes on you as well 00:34:26.949 --> 00:34:33.110 for letting that in exactly this weird muddle 00:34:33.110 --> 00:34:35.949 of advocating for your child and like hating 00:34:35.949 --> 00:34:39.389 everybody that's looking but also being ashamed 00:34:39.389 --> 00:34:42.610 that you're even bothered by people looking and 00:34:42.610 --> 00:34:45.610 it's the whole thing and and feeling like you 00:34:45.610 --> 00:34:48.369 yeah why can't I cope with my own child you know 00:34:48.369 --> 00:34:52.719 there's so much going on there for a parent in 00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:56.900 that situation. What do you wish that people 00:34:56.900 --> 00:35:01.599 around you did? You know, for those that aren't 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:04.760 in that situation, but that maybe see that in 00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:08.960 ASDA, what do you wish people did in that situation? 00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:12.059 Or do you know? Yeah, I think what would have 00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:16.059 been really helpful is if somebody, and I had 00:35:16.059 --> 00:35:17.760 to literally call the security guard over and 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:20.019 he just did what I said. I think I kind of screamed 00:35:20.019 --> 00:35:23.420 at him. You know, for people to say, how can 00:35:23.420 --> 00:35:26.719 I help you? Do you need help? And for it to not 00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:29.519 be a, do you need help? Yeah, it's not sympathetic. 00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:32.719 It's not judgmental. It's just practical. Do 00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:34.500 you need help? Yeah. Because you might have had 00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:36.460 your handbag in the next aisle and you've had 00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:38.699 to run or you might have had to, it's like getting 00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:40.639 practical things. Actually, I've got this car. 00:35:40.940 --> 00:35:43.480 Can you go and grab his something from the car 00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:47.179 or can you close the aisle maybe? Yes, yeah. 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.539 Exactly. And I think in the last 10 years, so 00:35:50.539 --> 00:35:52.880 that was quite a while ago now, but I do notice 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:57.699 now, thanks to a gargantuan effort by other parents, 00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:01.019 families, folks like you, you know, autism advocacy, 00:36:01.420 --> 00:36:06.260 visibility. I do notice now that people are more 00:36:06.260 --> 00:36:11.619 aware that someone might be autistic or neurodiverse 00:36:11.619 --> 00:36:14.159 in public. Even if visible disabilities are, 00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:16.300 there's definitely a... better awareness isn't 00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:18.699 there better awareness now there's still judgment 00:36:18.699 --> 00:36:22.920 and looking and and inquisitiveness but it it 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.440 is done with a bit more understanding as to what 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:27.619 might be going on there rather than it being 00:36:27.619 --> 00:36:32.159 uh yeah seen as dangerous or or the parenting 00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:36.780 maybe yeah poor parenting exactly exactly yeah 00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:40.079 so generational though i feel like there's still 00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:42.000 some generation maybe that's a bit of a sweeping 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.000 statement there's still that's how i found i 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:47.639 found Under 30s, far more understanding and sympathetic 00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:52.219 with empathy than I did maybe the over 60s. And 00:36:52.219 --> 00:36:54.900 I think it's just understanding. It's just ignorance, 00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:57.639 I think, in the understanding of what's really 00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:00.500 going on there. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 00:37:00.860 --> 00:37:02.639 And I mean, I was slightly joking with a friend 00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:05.280 of mine who is an adult, late diagnosed, already 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.460 HD lady. She also a former teacher. She said, 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:11.840 I wonder how many Karens that we encounter in 00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:16.219 daily life are actually. undying yeah i was like 00:37:16.219 --> 00:37:18.000 actually that would make a lot of sense being 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:21.340 bothered by your behavior so extremely yeah maybe 00:37:21.340 --> 00:37:23.900 they're seeing you know their own guilt and their 00:37:23.900 --> 00:37:26.679 own fears in in that it's interesting question 00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:29.000 isn't it i do think lots of ignorance comes from 00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:31.800 fear of the unknown whether that's a lack of 00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:33.719 education lack of training lack of awareness 00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:36.380 lack of experience i just think lots of ignorance 00:37:36.380 --> 00:37:39.260 comes from fear of the unknown and i think the 00:37:39.260 --> 00:37:41.019 more we're talking about this and conversations 00:37:41.019 --> 00:37:44.619 can be in the main media on main news stories. 00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:48.880 I mean, thinking about the media now, I'm terrified 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:50.659 of what's to come, but I'm really pleased it's 00:37:50.659 --> 00:37:52.519 in the main media. At least the conversation 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:55.460 is being spoken about. Regardless of what their 00:37:55.460 --> 00:37:58.260 opinions are, at least it's out there. At least 00:37:58.260 --> 00:38:00.980 we're talking about these children, this really 00:38:00.980 --> 00:38:05.030 important community in our... society yeah at 00:38:05.030 --> 00:38:07.289 least we're discussing it you know I might not 00:38:07.289 --> 00:38:09.170 agree with what everybody thinks but at least 00:38:09.170 --> 00:38:11.889 they think something and I think what was happening 00:38:11.889 --> 00:38:14.070 decades ago is they it wouldn't even have crossed 00:38:14.070 --> 00:38:17.230 their mind to even consider this cohort of our 00:38:17.230 --> 00:38:20.230 community so there's definitely a shift there 00:38:20.230 --> 00:38:22.489 that people are talking about it they have an 00:38:22.489 --> 00:38:26.849 opinion at least absolutely I agree with you 00:38:27.210 --> 00:38:29.230 Thinking about this waiting time, so I'm just 00:38:29.230 --> 00:38:31.869 imagining a parent has stumbled across this podcast. 00:38:32.409 --> 00:38:36.929 They are in the middle of the noise on social 00:38:36.929 --> 00:38:40.170 media and research and not really knowing what's 00:38:40.170 --> 00:38:42.349 right or wrong for their child. They've just 00:38:42.349 --> 00:38:44.730 been to ASDA last week. It wasn't 10 years ago 00:38:44.730 --> 00:38:49.349 and they can completely resonate. now they have 00:38:49.349 --> 00:38:52.150 some answers but they're waiting for so many 00:38:52.150 --> 00:38:55.050 more and they've got a pile of paperwork on their 00:38:55.050 --> 00:38:58.409 dining room table that is mounting up what would 00:38:58.409 --> 00:39:01.190 what's your message for that person having been 00:39:01.190 --> 00:39:04.570 there having been there darling i would start 00:39:04.570 --> 00:39:07.750 there and just reassure them it's going to be 00:39:07.750 --> 00:39:13.190 okay might not be okay today but baby steps one 00:39:13.190 --> 00:39:17.070 thing at a time and i think to Just encourage 00:39:17.070 --> 00:39:22.690 you, that person. It's counterintuitive, but 00:39:22.690 --> 00:39:25.789 put yourself first today. Make sure you've eaten. 00:39:26.530 --> 00:39:28.690 Make sure you've had something to drink. Make 00:39:28.690 --> 00:39:30.949 sure that you're safe in your environment and 00:39:30.949 --> 00:39:34.730 just start from there. If you can secure your 00:39:34.730 --> 00:39:38.369 environment for today in whatever small way you 00:39:38.369 --> 00:39:40.809 can, just to feel like you're gaining a little 00:39:40.809 --> 00:39:44.340 bit of traction. so that you can clear some headspace, 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.659 so that you can clear a little bit of the emotional 00:39:46.659 --> 00:39:50.639 trauma. Try and do that. Just start there. That's 00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:54.139 a small thing. Everything else can wait. And 00:39:54.139 --> 00:39:57.239 then I would say just be careful with what you 00:39:57.239 --> 00:39:59.579 consume because there's a lot. There's a lot 00:39:59.579 --> 00:40:03.119 out there and everybody's trying to sell to you. 00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.679 And ironically, the thing that you actually need, 00:40:06.780 --> 00:40:09.760 you can't afford and you're on a 18 month plus 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:12.219 waiting list for it. And when you arrive there, 00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:18.179 it's not very helpful often. So, you know, find 00:40:18.179 --> 00:40:22.059 one voice that you trust and engage, ask them 00:40:22.059 --> 00:40:24.099 questions, then make your way forward that way. 00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:27.719 I would love to be that voice. If you come across 00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.400 me, come and find me. And, you know, just start 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:32.760 there. Find one voice that you trust. Great advice. 00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:37.380 that small step and I guess when you're thinking 00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:39.000 about what your child actually needs in that 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:41.980 moment they need you they don't need these professionals 00:40:41.980 --> 00:40:44.300 they don't need the paperwork filled out they 00:40:44.300 --> 00:40:46.639 don't need the diagnosis right there and then 00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:50.380 they need you to be present they need you to 00:40:50.380 --> 00:40:56.219 be co -regulated they need you to be as grounded 00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:59.719 as you can be and present in that moment to meet 00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:01.659 their needs in that moment I mean god I love 00:41:01.659 --> 00:41:04.840 my job for So many reasons, but I love my job 00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.260 because my learners, for the most part, are so 00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:11.539 in the moment, second by second. They don't care 00:41:11.539 --> 00:41:14.760 how my day's been. They show me that they do. 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:17.579 They don't care what my morning was like or what 00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:20.579 I'm worried about for tomorrow. They just want 00:41:20.579 --> 00:41:22.980 their drink or they just want their snack or 00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:25.800 they just want a hug or they just need a bounce 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:28.480 and they just want their toy. And it just, I 00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:31.199 love that because it just keeps me in the moment. 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:34.579 Which is such a beautiful place to be because 00:41:34.579 --> 00:41:37.019 anxiety comes from a fear of what's to come. 00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:39.179 It isn't what's happening right, right, right 00:41:39.179 --> 00:41:41.860 this second now. And I think children are so 00:41:41.860 --> 00:41:45.000 good at that. All children are really good at 00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.619 being in the very present. And adults aren't. 00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.840 very good at being in the moment I often find 00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:55.099 that even when I'm doing these beautiful intensive 00:41:55.099 --> 00:41:58.079 interaction sessions with my children I'm trying 00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.860 so hard to stay in the moment in tune and so 00:42:00.860 --> 00:42:03.980 easily my brain goes to what I'm having for dinner 00:42:03.980 --> 00:42:07.059 what shopping this is like you know it's so easy 00:42:07.059 --> 00:42:09.139 for us to fall into that but children are so 00:42:09.139 --> 00:42:12.679 good at being in tune and present in the moment 00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:14.559 listening to their bodies what their bodies need 00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:17.340 in that moment what they don't need in that moment 00:42:17.340 --> 00:42:19.099 what they don't want in that moment they're so 00:42:19.099 --> 00:42:22.480 great at that so I feel like to add on to your 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:27.699 point also for that parent is to let that go 00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:31.119 for today just be there right now your child 00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:33.519 and be whatever they need you to be and whether 00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:36.199 that's opening a bag of crisps turning on giving 00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:39.619 them a deep pressure hug or leaving them alone 00:42:39.619 --> 00:42:42.539 that's what they need you're doing your job you 00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:44.139 there's only so many hats when you spoke about 00:42:44.139 --> 00:42:45.280 hats right at the beginning yeah there's only 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:48.480 so many hats you can wear and the most important 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:51.460 hat is the parent hat exactly that attachment 00:42:51.460 --> 00:42:55.150 that which it sounds like you are Because parents 00:42:55.150 --> 00:42:57.329 that think they're not doing enough are definitely 00:42:57.329 --> 00:42:59.170 doing enough. Because if you weren't doing enough, 00:42:59.190 --> 00:43:01.710 you wouldn't worry about not doing enough. Exactly. 00:43:02.190 --> 00:43:04.289 You found this podcast and you're worrying about 00:43:04.289 --> 00:43:06.889 that shows that you're in the right place. You're 00:43:06.889 --> 00:43:11.110 okay. You're absolutely enough. Probably more 00:43:11.110 --> 00:43:15.590 than. More than enough. These parents are just 00:43:15.590 --> 00:43:18.449 incredible. And they haven't often chosen this 00:43:18.449 --> 00:43:21.610 role. And yet they fall so heavily and hard and 00:43:21.610 --> 00:43:25.090 deeply into. being the most incredible advocate 00:43:25.090 --> 00:43:28.510 that yeah you're you're being everything your 00:43:28.510 --> 00:43:30.849 child needs you to be right now even if you don't 00:43:30.849 --> 00:43:33.750 feel like you are just opening that bag of crisps 00:43:33.750 --> 00:43:35.710 for them and turning on their ipad and making 00:43:35.710 --> 00:43:38.590 it for sure it's charged is exactly what they 00:43:38.590 --> 00:43:41.369 need that's what they need and no guilt let it 00:43:41.369 --> 00:43:46.170 go yeah let it go gosh it's easier said than 00:43:46.170 --> 00:43:49.010 done isn't it yeah but you know i mean i'm a 00:43:49.990 --> 00:43:52.269 advocate for speaking to yourself as a parent 00:43:52.269 --> 00:43:54.130 talk to yourself as if you're your own child 00:43:54.130 --> 00:43:58.610 I had for a period of about six months the word 00:43:58.610 --> 00:44:01.710 stop saying sorry written on a piece of cardboard 00:44:01.710 --> 00:44:04.730 and just stuck up in my kitchen and it was really 00:44:04.730 --> 00:44:07.409 transformative for me just because you know we 00:44:07.409 --> 00:44:11.769 do carry a lot of needing to keep up or please 00:44:11.769 --> 00:44:14.769 or so easy to apologize for yourself and your 00:44:14.769 --> 00:44:17.639 children and your children are hearing that they're 00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:20.119 hearing that they're internalizing that something's 00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:23.380 wrong yeah that they should be sorry for something 00:44:23.380 --> 00:44:26.500 yeah yeah it's such a simple thing i mean yeah 00:44:26.500 --> 00:44:29.500 writing those mantras down is a really great 00:44:29.500 --> 00:44:33.340 idea whatever that looks like for you so your 00:44:33.340 --> 00:44:35.900 movement therapy what what does your offer look 00:44:35.900 --> 00:44:38.820 like right if someone was to contact you what 00:44:38.820 --> 00:44:41.539 could they expect from working with you i know 00:44:41.539 --> 00:44:43.500 you you offer lots of different things you right 00:44:43.500 --> 00:44:45.719 talking about A few of those things. I know we've 00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:47.719 spoken a lot about movement therapy, but, you 00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:52.019 know, what is your offer for... What do I do? 00:44:52.940 --> 00:44:55.280 Yeah, what does it look like? What are the options? 00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:00.139 So I have basically kind of just offered whatever 00:45:00.139 --> 00:45:03.119 I can because there are people who need sometimes 00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:06.380 everything that I offer at once and folks who 00:45:06.380 --> 00:45:09.420 just benefit from maybe the therapy or the parent 00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:13.980 coaching or access to resources. So I... basically 00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:16.179 now run something called the book stack parent 00:45:16.179 --> 00:45:18.239 hub and it's called that because i've read all 00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:20.860 the books so that you don't have to and within 00:45:20.860 --> 00:45:23.500 that there are three kind of pathways that i 00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:26.480 can support you so the kind of biggest pathway 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:29.440 is root rise and learn which is where i offer 00:45:30.190 --> 00:45:32.909 one -to -one therapy the movement therapy reflex 00:45:32.909 --> 00:45:36.610 integration if you need a sensory plan or help 00:45:36.610 --> 00:45:40.050 to create a sensory map or a sensory diet and 00:45:40.050 --> 00:45:43.309 we can do that for one person one child or for 00:45:43.309 --> 00:45:46.659 your whole family which i actually do suggest 00:45:46.659 --> 00:45:49.460 is a good idea because that has a huge impact 00:45:49.460 --> 00:45:52.139 on how children in the home respond to things 00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:54.260 knowing how everybody responds to the environment 00:45:54.260 --> 00:45:56.880 so i can offer those kind of specific therapeutic 00:45:56.880 --> 00:45:59.739 things and i can also offer one -to -one parent 00:45:59.739 --> 00:46:02.280 coaching even if you just want to have a 15 minute 00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:06.519 chat and i have a lot of free things on my blog 00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:09.739 on my store in fact there's only one thing that 00:46:09.739 --> 00:46:11.980 i charge for everything else is free so please 00:46:11.980 --> 00:46:14.829 go and grab those resources I'm on Instagram, 00:46:14.989 --> 00:46:18.710 on Root, Rise and Learn. I'm on TikTok. I'm online, 00:46:19.210 --> 00:46:22.369 bookstackparenthub .co .uk. And you'll find everything 00:46:22.369 --> 00:46:26.090 there. Amazing. So, you know, go and grab a free 00:46:26.090 --> 00:46:29.469 resource. And my calls are free as well. I, you 00:46:29.469 --> 00:46:31.929 know, if you need help, I'm here. I'd rather 00:46:31.929 --> 00:46:35.469 be here than not. So, you know, come and find 00:46:35.469 --> 00:46:38.090 me. And then also there is Help My Home School, 00:46:38.190 --> 00:46:40.969 which has kind of come out of a natural progression. 00:46:41.900 --> 00:46:44.300 from the parent coaching calls to being like, 00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:47.380 well, how do I home educate children with additional 00:46:47.380 --> 00:46:51.820 needs? And, you know, now with the changes in 00:46:51.820 --> 00:46:55.199 the law surrounding home education, there's been 00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:57.320 quite a big conversation about that. And a lot 00:46:57.320 --> 00:46:59.619 of really panicked people. Don't panic. It's 00:46:59.619 --> 00:47:02.619 fine. So you can find me there, Help My Home 00:47:02.619 --> 00:47:05.400 School, which is also under the book stack. That's 00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:08.579 more specific to education choices. And it might 00:47:08.579 --> 00:47:10.960 not necessarily be homeschool or home education 00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:13.360 that you choose. It may be just having a conversation 00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:17.440 about, I need to work. How do we make this happen? 00:47:17.659 --> 00:47:20.860 Or is this the right choice? Is it maybe the 00:47:20.860 --> 00:47:23.539 right choice for a year? But then during that 00:47:23.539 --> 00:47:26.409 year, we're really working on. you know, mental 00:47:26.409 --> 00:47:29.849 health and helping children just come out of 00:47:29.849 --> 00:47:33.070 difficult, you know, school trauma situations. 00:47:33.389 --> 00:47:35.469 And then we're pivoting towards something else, 00:47:35.530 --> 00:47:37.710 you know, conversations like that around education 00:47:37.710 --> 00:47:40.610 choice. And then a little bit of whimsy, my little 00:47:40.610 --> 00:47:42.929 bit of fun is Little Labs Library. I'm really 00:47:42.929 --> 00:47:45.170 passionate about communications. Well, Jordan, 00:47:45.250 --> 00:47:47.650 that's how I found you. I'm really good. Because 00:47:47.650 --> 00:47:49.670 of my little girl, Language Delay, speaking Language 00:47:49.670 --> 00:47:52.250 Delay. So Little Labs Library is basically where 00:47:52.250 --> 00:47:56.800 I kind of offer the... curriculum -based meat 00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:00.219 and potatoes of what happens inside of my homeschool 00:48:00.219 --> 00:48:04.139 and how do I specifically adapt, particularly 00:48:04.139 --> 00:48:08.019 literacy exercises, growth development, all of 00:48:08.019 --> 00:48:11.619 those things for neurodiverse kiddos. What do 00:48:11.619 --> 00:48:14.400 I do? How does it look? And again, lots of free 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:17.960 resources. Lots about building neurological health 00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:21.780 through reading, building character through reading 00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:25.780 in children who may miss social cues. Or, you 00:48:25.780 --> 00:48:28.539 know, PDA is a big situation in our home here. 00:48:28.619 --> 00:48:32.519 How to approach literacy. I find literacy and 00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:35.960 PDA are just problematic, but there is a way. 00:48:36.219 --> 00:48:39.059 There is a way. And lots of play -based things. 00:48:39.260 --> 00:48:41.619 So there's quite a lot there. Let me go over 00:48:41.619 --> 00:48:44.320 it again. I'm gonna well if you could send me 00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:47.239 all the links I will put them all below so if 00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:49.340 you have heard any of that that you want to join 00:48:49.340 --> 00:48:51.539 all of it or some of it you will find the link 00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:54.699 below because so much of it yeah covers so many 00:48:54.699 --> 00:48:56.579 different things that you might be needing or 00:48:56.579 --> 00:49:00.079 wanting to look more into which all sound fantastic 00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:03.260 and I don't know how you have the time to homeschool 00:49:03.260 --> 00:49:05.579 parent and do all of that but that just sounds 00:49:05.579 --> 00:49:08.000 incredible my kids are a bit off the now so it's 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:11.389 a little okay it's great and I love ADHD for 00:49:11.389 --> 00:49:13.590 that because I feel like these things would exist 00:49:13.590 --> 00:49:17.389 without ADHD adults because when we see a need 00:49:17.389 --> 00:49:20.750 we we think outside the box and we feel it and 00:49:20.750 --> 00:49:23.329 I think that is that's what it's been so fantastic 00:49:23.329 --> 00:49:27.170 for this space is is parents that are neurodivergent 00:49:27.170 --> 00:49:29.809 and teachers that are neurodivergent seeing a 00:49:29.809 --> 00:49:31.710 need and feeling it and that's where my stuff 00:49:31.710 --> 00:49:33.469 comes from that's where your stuff comes from 00:49:33.469 --> 00:49:34.989 that's where lots of old friends and people in 00:49:34.989 --> 00:49:37.820 this podcast stuff comes from and I love that 00:49:37.820 --> 00:49:41.300 it really celebrates the neurodivergent brain 00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:45.920 in that way that we and we feel it and I love 00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:53.960 that yeah hooray so if you are a parent or teacher 00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:56.000 or other and you feel like you would benefit 00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:58.139 from seeing this stuff then the links are down 00:49:58.139 --> 00:50:01.460 below to follow Celeste in all of her different 00:50:01.460 --> 00:50:04.269 ventures so that you can learn more and join 00:50:04.269 --> 00:50:07.269 her journey and join her stuff work with her 00:50:07.269 --> 00:50:09.309 if you want to and you feel like that would be 00:50:09.309 --> 00:50:12.610 beneficial or have a call with her you know there's 00:50:12.610 --> 00:50:14.670 sounds like so many different ways that you can 00:50:14.670 --> 00:50:17.269 get involved and it it really does sound just 00:50:17.269 --> 00:50:21.309 the most fantastic and and you can see your passion 00:50:21.309 --> 00:50:23.769 for it and you can see that you've lived it it's 00:50:23.769 --> 00:50:29.300 a real live read lots of books but you can see 00:50:29.300 --> 00:50:31.500 how you're talking about it that the books are 00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:34.519 the evidence for what you're actually living 00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:37.280 and I think that's really crucial when you're 00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:40.519 working in this way but that's just just so fantastic 00:50:40.519 --> 00:50:44.519 to just to see thank you so much Celeste for 00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:48.239 thank you Jordan I will share regularly when 00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:51.260 I'm being met with DMs from parents that are 00:50:51.260 --> 00:50:55.579 in that waiting space I think yeah it's so common 00:50:55.579 --> 00:50:57.840 and like you said it's a rolling weight that 00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:01.199 so many can relate to and I think yeah your advice 00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:03.820 over that was was really wonderful so thank you 00:51:03.820 --> 00:51:08.059 for that thank you Jordan have a lovely day thank 00:51:08.059 --> 00:51:08.599 you everybody