WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.539 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:29.070 --> 00:00:31.850 Hello everybody and welcome to the Sensory Classroom 00:00:31.850 --> 00:00:34.350 podcast. My name is Jordan and today I'm joined 00:00:34.350 --> 00:00:37.490 by Laura from Spinning World of Autism, all about 00:00:37.490 --> 00:00:40.590 her campaign for Speak Up for Autism. I'm going 00:00:40.590 --> 00:00:42.869 to talk about what it is and how you can get 00:00:42.869 --> 00:00:45.869 involved in that today. Hi Laura. Thanks so much 00:00:45.869 --> 00:00:50.229 for having me on. Again. So you were, I mean, 00:00:50.250 --> 00:00:53.719 maybe even... Two years ago, I was speaking to 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:55.759 you in episode six, if you haven't caught that, 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:59.799 in episode six, all about Ethan starting school 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:02.320 and talking about what school might look like. 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:03.979 But we're talking about something very different 00:01:03.979 --> 00:01:06.620 today. But if somebody hasn't watched that, are 00:01:06.620 --> 00:01:07.920 you all right just telling us a little bit about 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:12.319 yourself and Ethan as well? Yeah, so I'm Laura, 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:16.719 alongside my partner with parents of Ethan, who 00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:19.569 I know well. discuss probably frequently during 00:01:19.569 --> 00:01:22.269 this episode. So just to introduce myself quickly, 00:01:22.590 --> 00:01:26.980 I call myself autism and AAC advocate. And I've 00:01:26.980 --> 00:01:29.540 had some really great opportunities. I've spoken 00:01:29.540 --> 00:01:32.099 in the Houses of Parliament, sharing our AAC 00:01:32.099 --> 00:01:35.659 story to MPs that really are flying the flag 00:01:35.659 --> 00:01:39.239 for all things assistive technology. I've also 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:42.200 got an assistive technology scholarship and went 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:44.859 to Florida, of all places, to attend the world 00:01:44.859 --> 00:01:48.959 -leading exhibition there. I'm autistic too. 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:52.260 I followed the fairly classic path I guess of 00:01:52.260 --> 00:01:54.700 being diagnosed a year or so after Ethan and 00:01:54.700 --> 00:01:56.840 just nodding along and being kicked under the 00:01:56.840 --> 00:02:01.140 table by answering all of the questions. Ethan, 00:02:01.340 --> 00:02:05.799 our son, he's six years old. Firstly, he's wonderful. 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:09.379 He brings a huge amount of joy to our lives and 00:02:09.379 --> 00:02:12.979 his interests are now our interests and we go 00:02:12.979 --> 00:02:16.159 bird watching and have binoculars and spend all 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:18.240 of our lives in the forest which is good for 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:20.280 him and actually is a really great kind of mental 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.819 health thing for us. Ethan is autistic, he's 00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:27.699 non -speaking and he's communicated with a high 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:32.090 -tech AAC device for over two years now. He also 00:02:32.090 --> 00:02:35.090 attends a specialist school and he's recently 00:02:35.090 --> 00:02:38.250 received a diagnosis of, a working diagnosis 00:02:38.250 --> 00:02:42.949 of apraxia of speech, which we'll mention later 00:02:42.949 --> 00:02:45.569 on probably and share kind of why that's working. 00:02:45.969 --> 00:02:48.729 Why it's a working diagnosis, not an official 00:02:48.729 --> 00:02:51.750 one. But essentially apraxia is when the jaw 00:02:51.750 --> 00:02:54.110 and the brain and the lips and the tongue, everything 00:02:54.110 --> 00:02:56.530 we take for granted when it comes to speaking, 00:02:56.710 --> 00:02:59.050 when they can't coordinate properly and that 00:02:59.050 --> 00:03:02.620 means he's... non -speaking yeah so that that's 00:03:02.620 --> 00:03:06.159 us really would i practice because i think apraxia 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.340 is really important to discuss actually how could 00:03:09.340 --> 00:03:12.740 you explain to my listeners how apraxia affects 00:03:12.740 --> 00:03:17.580 ethan's communication style and how that might 00:03:17.580 --> 00:03:22.560 support aac use as in what i mean by that is 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.500 he clearly knows what he wants to say it might 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:28.219 just be the like physically or the connecting 00:03:28.219 --> 00:03:31.259 from getting those thoughts out through speech 00:03:31.259 --> 00:03:33.900 maybe isn't as easy for English would you agree 00:03:33.900 --> 00:03:38.039 with that yeah so I think we all know and not 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.939 enough people know but the myth about non -speaking 00:03:40.939 --> 00:03:43.599 somehow meaning children aren't intelligent or 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:46.580 they can't hear and things like that Ethan proves 00:03:46.580 --> 00:03:49.639 that this isn't the case sort of all day every 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:53.270 day And he can use his AAC device to get everything 00:03:53.270 --> 00:03:57.909 that's in his head out. So Ethan does well with 00:03:57.909 --> 00:04:00.689 the AAC device and took to it really quickly. 00:04:01.150 --> 00:04:03.729 And I think that's because he had such a strong 00:04:03.729 --> 00:04:07.169 desire to communicate. And he had so much that 00:04:07.169 --> 00:04:09.189 he wanted to say. We still have the barriers. 00:04:09.330 --> 00:04:11.310 Obviously, Ethan is autistic and high needs. 00:04:11.449 --> 00:04:16.170 So he's sensory seeking and has a short attention 00:04:16.170 --> 00:04:18.790 span and things like that. So, you know, it's 00:04:18.790 --> 00:04:21.600 not easy, isn't it? isn't a kind of perfect sort 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:24.399 of thing, but he's got so much to say and he's 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:27.699 able to share it. Most importantly, I love it 00:04:27.699 --> 00:04:30.540 when he asks for help via his ASC. I just think 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:33.639 that's so important. And that can be like he's 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:35.879 dropped something, he's dropped his drink in 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:38.720 the car, so he might press help water instead 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:41.579 of launching forward and grabbing us when driving 00:04:41.579 --> 00:04:43.220 or whatever. Right, because that's how else would 00:04:43.220 --> 00:04:44.920 he communicate. It would be through his body, 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:46.620 right? And that's what we're talking about. Exactly, 00:04:46.620 --> 00:04:51.079 yeah. Nathan. does show challenging behaviors 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.379 and that is part of Ethan and it is a part of 00:04:54.379 --> 00:04:58.459 our daily life even with an AAC device even with 00:04:58.459 --> 00:05:01.459 Makaton and even with us you know trying to do 00:05:01.459 --> 00:05:06.110 everything right but We can 100 % say for sure 00:05:06.110 --> 00:05:08.870 that his AAC has hugely reduced that. And of 00:05:08.870 --> 00:05:12.170 course it has. He can tell us things. And for 00:05:12.170 --> 00:05:14.490 a six -year -old, wanting a chocolate lollipop 00:05:14.490 --> 00:05:17.949 is as important as telling us that his ear hurts. 00:05:18.129 --> 00:05:20.730 And he has every right to be able to share that 00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:24.230 with the world, right? And for you guys, that 00:05:24.230 --> 00:05:28.029 was AAC and Makaton. But you've had to fund that 00:05:28.029 --> 00:05:31.649 and train for that and support that privately. 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:34.699 That's what we're going to talk about today. 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:38.180 When did you first have contact with NHS speech 00:05:38.180 --> 00:05:43.040 therapy? Let's go back there. Yeah, so I have 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:45.899 to always like really rack my brain. I think 00:05:45.899 --> 00:05:49.579 I probably blocked out a lot of this sort of 00:05:49.579 --> 00:05:53.300 time. But getting Ethan referred for speech therapy 00:05:53.300 --> 00:05:56.839 was actually very easy. And Ethan, up to the 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:59.480 age of three, maybe slightly older than three, 00:05:59.540 --> 00:06:04.540 was basically silent. He never babbled. We kind 00:06:04.540 --> 00:06:06.779 of joke, but I guess it's not really funny, but 00:06:06.779 --> 00:06:09.500 we hear like newborn babies say stuff. You know, 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:11.600 we're in coffee one and a newborn baby will say 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:16.560 something. We've never heard babbles, anything. 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:19.680 So Ethan, apart from blowing raspberries and 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:22.240 apart from crying, which actually in hindsight, 00:06:22.339 --> 00:06:26.000 now I know more babies. He actually didn't do 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:29.579 that often. he didn't make a sound so getting 00:06:29.579 --> 00:06:32.259 the referral you know we still heard some of 00:06:32.259 --> 00:06:35.579 the classic you know boys are lazy he'll catch 00:06:35.579 --> 00:06:38.980 up have you spoken to him all of that but getting 00:06:38.980 --> 00:06:41.899 referral was easy we had the classic you know 00:06:41.899 --> 00:06:44.259 it's a really long waiting list he can only be 00:06:44.259 --> 00:06:47.459 seen when he's two but we were able to say well 00:06:47.459 --> 00:06:49.279 if it's a long waiting list can we refer him 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:52.579 now so we were seen I think pretty much as Ethan 00:06:52.579 --> 00:06:56.399 turned two so so that worked and then what was 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:59.779 the what came from that referral what were you 00:06:59.779 --> 00:07:02.019 what support package i suppose were you given 00:07:02.019 --> 00:07:06.100 what interventions were you offered yeah how 00:07:06.100 --> 00:07:08.459 what did that look like and then and then i suppose 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.480 what was the impact or non -impact of of that 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:16.279 yeah um so when we were accepted to speech therapy 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:19.699 probably like lots of parents of autistic children 00:07:19.699 --> 00:07:21.860 whether they're non -speaking or whether they're 00:07:21.860 --> 00:07:25.560 struggling to communicate in any way that was 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:28.600 a huge light you know like light at the end of 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:30.240 the tunnel we're going to be helped we're going 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:32.680 to have speech therapy they're going to look 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:35.019 into why he's not talking we're going to have 00:07:35.019 --> 00:07:39.000 strategies and advice but actually in our experience 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:41.360 and actually for thousands of other families 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.500 who I've subsequently spoken to that just isn't 00:07:44.500 --> 00:07:48.240 the case so we say that we have never had speech 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.180 therapy. So we've been in the room with a speech 00:07:51.180 --> 00:07:53.459 therapist, we've had a speech therapist in the 00:07:53.459 --> 00:07:56.720 house, but we've never had speech therapy that 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:00.319 actually looks at Ethan as a unique individual 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.560 and actually makes recommendations and support 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.040 to him and to us as his parents that we can actually 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.980 help him with. So we found it was just very generic. 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:16.279 We found that there's definitely fear of autism. 00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:19.860 So we brought up autism and were just kind of, 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:22.399 no, he's not autistic, you know, sort of total 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:26.259 kind of shut down and dismissal. The sessions 00:08:26.259 --> 00:08:29.980 relied on speech. The child, you know, I joke 00:08:29.980 --> 00:08:33.080 about it again, but we're still waiting for Ethan 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:35.779 to say go so we can drop the car down the ramp. 00:08:36.100 --> 00:08:38.940 But it's been four years or, you know, we're 00:08:38.940 --> 00:08:41.879 still waiting. If Ethan wouldn't say moo when 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:45.460 he showed the cow, there didn't seem to be any 00:08:45.460 --> 00:08:50.379 other strategy. We were left with generic advice, 00:08:50.580 --> 00:08:53.820 generic targets. But actually what was worse 00:08:53.820 --> 00:08:56.860 than that happening was then the misinformation 00:08:56.860 --> 00:09:00.799 and further dismissal that happened. So we brought 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:05.399 up high tech AAC because I'd seen a family user 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:08.210 on Instagram. I think they're in America. Ethan 00:09:08.210 --> 00:09:10.830 was an absolute, well, he is a whiz with technology 00:09:10.830 --> 00:09:13.490 and doing things and they're like, show me how 00:09:13.490 --> 00:09:16.389 you did that sort of thing. So to us, it was 00:09:16.389 --> 00:09:19.769 obvious it would be a success for him. We would 00:09:19.769 --> 00:09:24.590 dismiss saying that it will stop him talking. 00:09:25.250 --> 00:09:29.830 It just stopped a huge, huge misconception, isn't 00:09:29.830 --> 00:09:33.360 it? There was no evidence of that. No, I know. 00:09:33.419 --> 00:09:37.200 And there's evidence on the other way. You know, 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:39.539 there's loads of evidence in scientific studies. 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:42.659 We've got videos now of Ethan pressing ready, 00:09:42.740 --> 00:09:46.299 steady, go to make a penguin jump off. And then 00:09:46.299 --> 00:09:50.039 he says, go. You know, there's evidence everywhere. 00:09:50.379 --> 00:09:53.299 But what a huge thing to say to a parent. So 00:09:53.299 --> 00:09:55.580 I have to like take myself back. But when Ethan, 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:59.120 when we had this conversation, we were kind of 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:02.929 deep in the trenches of. Not knowing what autism 00:10:02.929 --> 00:10:05.610 is, not knowing what anything is, really trying 00:10:05.610 --> 00:10:08.909 to sort of cling on to hear a speech therapist, 00:10:08.970 --> 00:10:12.309 a professional tell us. It took great, I guess, 00:10:12.350 --> 00:10:14.629 strength of our part to be like, actually, I 00:10:14.629 --> 00:10:17.769 know that isn't true. We're going to crack on 00:10:17.769 --> 00:10:20.919 and do it ourselves. It's obviously hugely worrying 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:23.419 for families that don't know that. And I wouldn't 00:10:23.419 --> 00:10:26.220 blame any family for hearing that from a professional 00:10:26.220 --> 00:10:27.679 they've brought into their lives or that has 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:29.820 been brought into their lives. They're the expert 00:10:29.820 --> 00:10:31.860 that tells you that. I wouldn't blame the family 00:10:31.860 --> 00:10:34.879 for believing it and not questioning it and not 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:37.059 looking for other roots and other evidences. 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:39.779 You know, it's amazing that you didn't do that 00:10:39.779 --> 00:10:42.120 because that is credit to you and Ethan. But 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:44.399 I wouldn't blame any parent that doesn't take 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:47.340 that at face value because why wouldn't you? 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:51.019 Yeah. yeah and like there's problems as well 00:10:51.019 --> 00:10:54.740 with the aac sort of guidance criteria and it 00:10:54.740 --> 00:10:57.799 says things like a child should be able to use 00:10:57.799 --> 00:11:00.720 low -tech aac first of like the picture cards 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:04.000 and and ethan can't use them because he's so 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:07.539 sensory seeking so wild we did the laminator 00:11:07.539 --> 00:11:10.200 thing and did everything literally turn around 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:15.740 there down the back of radiators yeah yeah gone 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:19.950 You know, so, but we never got to that. We've 00:11:19.950 --> 00:11:22.429 got, I think sometimes I get asked as a result 00:11:22.429 --> 00:11:26.049 of this, oh, were you denied a NHS funded device 00:11:26.049 --> 00:11:28.350 and things like that? I say, we never got to 00:11:28.350 --> 00:11:31.490 that stage. We never even passed the initial. 00:11:31.590 --> 00:11:34.629 And now I have time, have had time to think about 00:11:34.629 --> 00:11:37.509 it a bit and kind of mull on it. I think it probably 00:11:37.509 --> 00:11:41.750 came from a place of fear almost that the speech 00:11:41.750 --> 00:11:44.820 therapist. probably didn't know very much about 00:11:44.820 --> 00:11:48.320 high -tech ac so instead of just saying actually 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:51.919 um i'm gonna recommend you read this book go 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:54.539 on this website do this do this we were just 00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:57.779 sort of outright dismissed um but also we were 00:11:57.779 --> 00:12:01.279 dismissed about apraxia and now Fast forward 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:03.460 a few years on and we paid for some private support. 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.519 He's now got that working diagnosis. And we had 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:09.080 done lots of research. Obviously, we're not experts, 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.700 but we've done loads of research and things like 00:12:11.700 --> 00:12:15.399 Ethan couldn't breastfeed at all. He's had some 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:18.820 real proper choking episodes, which I think has 00:12:18.820 --> 00:12:21.860 literally given me, you know, I can't hear someone 00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:23.759 cough in a coffee shop without being like, someone 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:26.399 get that man a drink. You know, it's given me. 00:12:27.069 --> 00:12:30.549 choking episodes, he would sort of grasp to speak 00:12:30.549 --> 00:12:33.129 and no words would come out. If he had like a 00:12:33.129 --> 00:12:35.470 milk moustache, he'd wipe it with his arm rather 00:12:35.470 --> 00:12:38.870 than licking his tongue. There's so much that 00:12:38.870 --> 00:12:41.009 was just kind of pointing to it. But again, we 00:12:41.009 --> 00:12:44.250 were just told it was very rare. He won't have 00:12:44.250 --> 00:12:47.850 it. And actually, that was something that I had 00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:50.289 to sort of let go for a bit. And it was always 00:12:50.289 --> 00:12:52.909 in the back of my mind that I was doing ACE and 00:12:52.909 --> 00:12:56.830 autism and everything else. Now, you know, he 00:12:56.830 --> 00:13:00.450 has that diagnosis. And the thing is with apraxia, 00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:02.850 and it always kind of makes me a bit emotional 00:13:02.850 --> 00:13:05.950 to say, but without specific apraxia therapy, 00:13:06.350 --> 00:13:10.309 a child will never speak. If they have apraxia, 00:13:10.389 --> 00:13:12.850 they will never speak because they will never 00:13:12.850 --> 00:13:16.090 get the support they need. Because apraxia speech 00:13:16.090 --> 00:13:18.769 therapy isn't waiting for a car to go down a 00:13:18.769 --> 00:13:22.070 ramp. It's oral motor stuff. It's about the muscles. 00:13:22.129 --> 00:13:25.990 It's about speech sounds. you know ironically 00:13:25.990 --> 00:13:29.330 is actually a sweet therapist sort of job but 00:13:29.330 --> 00:13:32.070 again because ethan is autistic with high needs 00:13:32.070 --> 00:13:34.990 he can't actually access the apraxia diagnosis 00:13:34.990 --> 00:13:38.809 system because it's very intensive and takes 00:13:38.809 --> 00:13:41.850 hours and there's one -to -one eye contact and 00:13:41.850 --> 00:13:44.590 like ethan couldn't do that but even that on 00:13:44.590 --> 00:13:47.450 its own is very exclusive for a community who 00:13:47.450 --> 00:13:51.529 many have a working diagnosis or should have 00:13:51.529 --> 00:13:54.350 a working diagnosis of apraxia so They're being 00:13:54.350 --> 00:13:56.809 excluded from something really important for 00:13:56.809 --> 00:14:01.210 them that could give them their voice, their 00:14:01.210 --> 00:14:03.909 spoken voice, even if they've got a voice in 00:14:03.909 --> 00:14:07.350 other ways. You've said a lot about fear with 00:14:07.350 --> 00:14:09.889 speech therapy. Do you think it also comes down 00:14:09.889 --> 00:14:12.830 to other things as well, like lack of training, 00:14:13.250 --> 00:14:17.889 lack of understanding, lack of experience? I 00:14:17.889 --> 00:14:21.330 don't know. What is it that we need more of in 00:14:21.330 --> 00:14:24.690 therapy to kind of... make sure this doesn't 00:14:24.690 --> 00:14:27.870 keep happening yeah yeah well i think it's all 00:14:27.870 --> 00:14:31.669 of the above it's fear as a result of lack of 00:14:31.669 --> 00:14:34.690 training and lack of experience i think also 00:14:34.690 --> 00:14:37.070 and it feels potentially slightly controversial 00:14:37.070 --> 00:14:41.929 to say but i think it's also the views of autistic 00:14:41.929 --> 00:14:45.419 individuals especially autistic individuals with 00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:47.580 high needs. You know, while I've been doing all 00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:50.559 this and doing all the research, in the 1960s, 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.379 education psychologists were still teaching that 00:14:53.379 --> 00:14:56.360 autistic individuals like Ethan, like my son, 00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:59.919 couldn't learn anything. And then I think in 00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:03.159 the 1970s, a wonderful lady received an MBE because 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.740 she showed that absolutely they can. And that 00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:08.580 wasn't that long ago. You know, we're still kind 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:11.559 of fighting with that. And I believe we were 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:13.980 dismissed from speech therapy. in very simple 00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:16.840 terms because Ethan is autistic because he's 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:19.980 high needs potentially they weren't assuming 00:15:19.980 --> 00:15:23.200 competence they weren't assuming potential what's 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.580 he why are we bothering to give him give him 00:15:25.580 --> 00:15:28.720 an ASC device what's he going to say anyway and 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:31.240 that's heartbreaking to say and obviously we 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:34.820 don't believe that at all But I still believe 00:15:34.820 --> 00:15:37.860 that that is, you know, ableism is rooted in 00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:40.159 so much of society and therefore probably is 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:42.879 rooted within the training. So I believe from 00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:46.740 the 1960s, but I see things all the time on my 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:52.379 school visits where learners are assumed because 00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:54.500 they can't speak or maybe share their choices 00:15:54.500 --> 00:15:58.570 or share their views are deemed to like. are 00:15:58.570 --> 00:16:02.169 infantilized are deemed maybe they do like you 00:16:02.169 --> 00:16:04.190 know younger things and that's fine if they choose 00:16:04.190 --> 00:16:07.350 them but we we can't assume that we can't assume 00:16:07.350 --> 00:16:09.090 that they can't make choices or don't want to 00:16:09.090 --> 00:16:10.789 make choices we can't assume that they don't 00:16:10.789 --> 00:16:12.809 have a wider understanding of the world or what 00:16:12.809 --> 00:16:15.809 you're saying around them in fact i'm proven 00:16:15.809 --> 00:16:20.370 every day that's quite the opposite actually 00:16:20.370 --> 00:16:23.700 through the most incredible ways I mean our children 00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:26.039 are so incredible that they do have all of these 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.539 barriers to learning not just their own bodies 00:16:28.539 --> 00:16:31.279 but actually the world is a barrier as we've 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:34.600 spoken about before and yet somehow they find 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.440 the most incredible ways of making their needs 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.240 known and their wants known and their choices 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.840 known but my goodness wouldn't it be so much 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:47.299 better for them if they didn't have to find ways 00:16:47.299 --> 00:16:50.460 and sometimes those ways hurt themselves or hurt 00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:54.159 others And I just know that if they had another 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:56.100 option, they wouldn't be doing those things. 00:16:56.259 --> 00:16:59.539 I can tell that I've loved so many children in 00:16:59.539 --> 00:17:02.340 my classrooms that I've worked with. And you 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:05.920 can see that they are desperate to just have 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:09.900 their basic needs met. And if they had a way 00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:12.640 of sharing those things with the world, they 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.759 wouldn't have to do those things that hurt others 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:20.190 or hurt themselves. When I saw AAC, all AAC actually, 00:17:20.329 --> 00:17:22.730 all augmentative and alternative communication 00:17:22.730 --> 00:17:26.589 methods, not just high -tech AAC, all of a sudden 00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:28.930 we saw exactly the same as Ethan. We saw a reduction 00:17:28.930 --> 00:17:31.069 in those hurting behaviours because they didn't 00:17:31.069 --> 00:17:33.829 have to use their bodies in that way to make 00:17:33.829 --> 00:17:37.809 their basic needs known and more. But I suppose 00:17:37.809 --> 00:17:40.430 the benefit of high -tech AAC is there's no limitation 00:17:40.430 --> 00:17:44.430 really to what's available to them. So all of 00:17:44.430 --> 00:17:47.910 a sudden you can see what. is what they're wanting 00:17:47.910 --> 00:17:51.269 to share with the world. And my ableist view, 00:17:51.490 --> 00:17:55.029 and I have to admit that, I can't help but be 00:17:55.029 --> 00:17:58.029 surprised every time by what I'm seeing. And 00:17:58.029 --> 00:18:00.309 I hate that I am surprised because it shows my 00:18:00.309 --> 00:18:02.470 ableist view on these children, even though I 00:18:02.470 --> 00:18:04.710 try not to, even though I work really hard on 00:18:04.710 --> 00:18:06.990 it. That's it. It's so deeply rooted. I have 00:18:06.990 --> 00:18:09.569 to admit that. I think it's really important 00:18:09.569 --> 00:18:13.880 that I acknowledge that. I hate that I am surprised 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.759 when I see a child spelling and typing. I hate 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:18.700 that I am surprised when I see them navigating 00:18:18.700 --> 00:18:22.779 folders, you know, in context and using language. 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.259 I hate that I'm surprised when I see them on 00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:27.380 BBC iPlayer and they get to the perfect point 00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:29.660 in Bing that has so much meaning and context 00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:32.359 for the situation we're in. I hate that I'm surprised 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:35.230 by that, but I am because it's systemic. you 00:18:35.230 --> 00:18:37.930 know this ableism and that's why it's so important 00:18:37.930 --> 00:18:40.109 to have this conversation because even somebody 00:18:40.109 --> 00:18:42.190 that loves the children like i do that advocates 00:18:42.190 --> 00:18:45.670 so hard that's neurodivergent herself it's okay 00:18:45.670 --> 00:18:48.150 to admit that and i think if we just drop that 00:18:48.150 --> 00:18:51.630 ego of it all and admit that this is a deep -rooted 00:18:51.630 --> 00:18:53.569 problem that actually all of us need to look 00:18:53.569 --> 00:18:56.009 inside and and kind of we're all part of the 00:18:56.009 --> 00:18:59.309 problem i think yeah yeah i agree i agree and 00:18:59.309 --> 00:19:02.670 my kind of aim really with it in Very simple 00:19:02.670 --> 00:19:05.630 terms is that when a child like Ethan enters 00:19:05.630 --> 00:19:09.430 a room, and it's not that speech therapists are 00:19:09.430 --> 00:19:13.150 going to be experts in autism. You know, obviously 00:19:13.150 --> 00:19:15.349 they do have a part to play in the diagnosis 00:19:15.349 --> 00:19:18.609 process. They are consulted, but they don't need 00:19:18.609 --> 00:19:21.450 to be experts. But when an Ethan runs into the 00:19:21.450 --> 00:19:24.869 room, sensory seeking, not giving eye contact, 00:19:25.029 --> 00:19:28.059 not talking at all. you know we used to call 00:19:28.059 --> 00:19:30.420 ethan a bit of a poster boy for the autistic 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:33.619 criteria you know he not so much actually anymore 00:19:33.619 --> 00:19:35.460 but we won't go into that but he pretty much 00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:38.920 ticks kind of every box right um so when a speech 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.539 therapist sees a child like ethan they literally 00:19:41.539 --> 00:19:45.480 pick up this folder rather than that folder right 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.559 and they do a totally different strategies a 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.180 totally different approach that's the aim really 00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:56.339 and my petition is to make Autism -specific training 00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:59.359 mandatory for all practicing speech therapists. 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.579 So graduates, students that are currently training, 00:20:02.660 --> 00:20:05.440 and speech therapists that have been speech therapists 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:08.119 for 30 years. And just looking at everything 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:11.460 under the autism umbrella. So if they're learning 00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:13.880 about speech disorders, they don't just learn 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.000 about it. They think, how does this look in autistic 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.619 individuals? Can they access the diagnosis? Can 00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:22.140 they access the support? What can we do around 00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:25.589 that? How does an autistic... person engage with 00:20:25.589 --> 00:20:28.329 AAC what does that look like what would modeling 00:20:28.329 --> 00:20:31.029 look like what would success look like and there's 00:20:31.029 --> 00:20:33.569 everything they learn just there's a kind of 00:20:33.569 --> 00:20:37.069 autism umbrella over all of it within that segment 00:20:37.069 --> 00:20:39.890 so when speech therapists are met with children 00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:44.349 like Ethan they can suggest AAC they can suggest 00:20:44.349 --> 00:20:47.190 things but also it can give them a bit of confidence 00:20:47.190 --> 00:20:49.990 to say actually I've learned about that I know 00:20:49.990 --> 00:20:53.269 about that read this do this speak to this person 00:20:53.789 --> 00:20:56.670 rather than the dismissal because they're fearful, 00:20:56.789 --> 00:20:59.390 because they haven't learned about it through 00:20:59.390 --> 00:21:02.269 no fault of their own. And I want to sort of 00:21:02.269 --> 00:21:05.650 say that, that this isn't bashing speech therapists 00:21:05.650 --> 00:21:10.009 or individuals. This is sort of the whole, the 00:21:10.009 --> 00:21:12.230 system as a whole, I think, just hasn't kind 00:21:12.230 --> 00:21:16.410 of caught up. How has it been recorded by speech 00:21:16.410 --> 00:21:18.630 therapists? language therapist because from what 00:21:18.630 --> 00:21:20.950 I've seen of people sharing it there are lots 00:21:20.950 --> 00:21:22.369 of neuroaffirming speech and language therapists 00:21:22.369 --> 00:21:24.349 that are shouting about your campaign can we 00:21:24.349 --> 00:21:26.130 talk about that just while you're on the subject 00:21:26.130 --> 00:21:28.210 of this isn't about bashing speech language therapists 00:21:28.210 --> 00:21:32.009 it was very very supported by the speech therapy 00:21:32.009 --> 00:21:36.910 yeah definitely and I always yeah I'm trying 00:21:36.910 --> 00:21:39.529 to kind of share about that I mean I was expecting 00:21:39.529 --> 00:21:42.470 touch wood I haven't got any I was expecting 00:21:43.349 --> 00:21:46.529 a bit of backlash a bit of and i have had a couple 00:21:46.529 --> 00:21:48.829 of slightly sort of defensive messages but we've 00:21:48.829 --> 00:21:50.650 chatted about it and then they've signed my petition 00:21:50.650 --> 00:21:53.869 and shared it you know i think speech therapists 00:21:53.869 --> 00:21:57.710 are burnt out are struggling there aren't enough 00:21:57.710 --> 00:22:00.170 of them they're working incredibly incredibly 00:22:00.170 --> 00:22:04.009 hard And actually lots of NHS speech therapists 00:22:04.009 --> 00:22:06.609 I've spoken to have left the profession because 00:22:06.609 --> 00:22:09.569 they know they can't support children correctly 00:22:09.569 --> 00:22:12.849 and how they want to do it. So I think actually 00:22:12.849 --> 00:22:15.890 by introducing a training like this, not as extra 00:22:15.890 --> 00:22:19.769 work, ideally to replace current kind of CPD 00:22:19.769 --> 00:22:23.200 training they're already doing. I hope that it 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.880 actually can really give them a tool and a kind 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:28.920 of comfort and confidence to go to when they're 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:32.019 met with more and more children like Ethan. And 00:22:32.019 --> 00:22:34.900 actually, I've now got the support and I'm allowed 00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:37.640 to sort of say that Speech and Language UK publicly 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.519 support the campaign now, which is huge. And 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:44.400 it's brilliant. Speech Apraxia UK support the 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.180 campaign. So there is a... There is a need for 00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:51.200 it. And that's been sort of incredible to have 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.059 got from all the research and to where we are 00:22:53.059 --> 00:22:55.559 today with such big organisations backing it. 00:22:55.619 --> 00:22:58.680 It's huge. And it only goes to prove that this 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:01.880 isn't just parents finding this. This is a problem 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:04.440 that many people have probably been battling 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.519 with, but also accepting it just feels bigger 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.000 than them. And it takes somebody like yourself, 00:23:10.299 --> 00:23:12.599 who probably doesn't have time and capacity, 00:23:12.819 --> 00:23:16.940 let's face it. You've got a lot of work. a very 00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:19.619 busy line but it takes somebody so passionate 00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:23.559 about this to start voicing it that then the 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:25.920 rumble start and it really has hasn't it quite 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:29.099 quickly it made some huge rumbles and ripples 00:23:29.099 --> 00:23:33.359 how would you explain the impact already of of 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.460 this before it's even reached parliament yeah 00:23:36.460 --> 00:23:39.039 well i think because i when i first shared about 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:42.480 our speech therapy experience I did it and it 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:44.599 was sort of two years or three years kind of 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:47.079 after it all happened because as many parents 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:49.299 of autistic children we were fighting for special 00:23:49.299 --> 00:23:52.240 school you know and once everything had settled 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:54.519 and you could actually kind of mull and reflect 00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:57.539 you say hang on a minute this was is terrible 00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:00.759 and we've had to do kind of everything shared 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:02.920 a little bit about it and shared you know we 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:06.279 were told until Ethan talks we can't help him 00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:09.160 to talk without words, we can't support you. 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:11.440 I still remember, and it was someone visiting 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.000 our house, still remember the look on a speech 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.180 therapist's face when Ethan was running up and 00:24:17.180 --> 00:24:20.160 down this room just endlessly and endlessly of 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:21.900 just looking at him like he was some kind of 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:24.279 monster that she had never seen before. And that's 00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:27.720 in his safe space. Yeah. And he was just being, 00:24:27.900 --> 00:24:30.099 he was being essentially seeking autistic charge, 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:34.980 you know, nothing. Right. Nothing untoward, nothing 00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:38.869 scary. Yeah. And that's when there is always 00:24:38.869 --> 00:24:40.829 this sort of without words, we can't support 00:24:40.829 --> 00:24:43.150 you. But actually as well, and I have been asked, 00:24:43.289 --> 00:24:45.450 and I think it's probably important to say, we're 00:24:45.450 --> 00:24:48.390 not discharged from speech therapy. We were never 00:24:48.390 --> 00:24:50.809 discharged. But actually, I don't know if that's 00:24:50.809 --> 00:24:53.069 better or worse, because instead all we kept 00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:55.690 getting was letters with impossible targets, 00:24:55.789 --> 00:24:59.839 impossible strategies that would never... never 00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:02.559 happen. And then occasionally a speech therapist 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:05.140 might go into school and then they'll write something 00:25:05.140 --> 00:25:07.960 about how well he's doing on AAC. Where were 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:10.819 you, you know, three years ago? So, you know, 00:25:10.819 --> 00:25:13.579 the support isn't there. We've never had the 00:25:13.579 --> 00:25:16.640 support. But in terms of the sort of impact of 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:20.119 it now, those are families, so over 500 families 00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:24.119 have shared their lived experience with me and 00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:27.920 some sharing the same until he talks, we can't 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:30.740 help. Other people are told they've got too many 00:25:30.740 --> 00:25:34.200 words, so we can't help. Other people have said, 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.059 oh, they're situationally mute and autistic, 00:25:36.259 --> 00:25:39.700 so we don't know what to do with that. Some other 00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:42.500 phrases such as, you know, speech is the least 00:25:42.500 --> 00:25:46.220 of his problems, one person heard. So just terrible 00:25:46.220 --> 00:25:49.339 kind of across the board. A few failures for 00:25:49.339 --> 00:25:52.470 our autistic community. yeah across the board 00:25:52.470 --> 00:25:55.369 in every way huge face i mean 500 payments to 00:25:55.369 --> 00:25:58.430 actually have the time and you know that it's 00:25:58.430 --> 00:26:00.750 probably a hundred times more than that that 00:26:00.750 --> 00:26:03.990 have been yeah by uh yeah and i've had you know 00:26:03.990 --> 00:26:06.210 thousands of comments at the eye paper have been 00:26:06.210 --> 00:26:08.549 really supportive and we've had a couple of articles 00:26:08.549 --> 00:26:10.589 and videos with them and that they're getting 00:26:10.589 --> 00:26:12.769 and that was interesting because that's just 00:26:12.769 --> 00:26:15.779 put out to the public You know, when I share 00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:18.279 on my Instagram, I have to be aware that I'm 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:21.279 talking to like my community and lots of non 00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:24.380 -speaking children, parents will follow. So actually 00:26:24.380 --> 00:26:27.039 when it went out to the public, it was interesting 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.240 and I still was getting all the stories and all 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:32.599 the comments, you know, which that was a real 00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:34.380 kind of defining moment actually of thinking, 00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:37.599 you know, this is huge. This is a nationwide 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:42.039 problem. And now there's a petition that is gaining 00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:45.599 signatures. We've got an early day motion where 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.740 MPs can sign it in support. And that's got support 00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:53.660 from Labour MPs, some of which are on the APPG 00:26:53.660 --> 00:26:57.440 for autism. All of the Green Party MPs, which 00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:59.339 I know is only five, but all of them have signed 00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:02.380 it. So it's got their support. It's just kind 00:27:02.380 --> 00:27:04.480 of gaining traction. And I think a potential 00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:07.339 next step would be, which has been mentioned, 00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:09.839 there might be able to be a mini debate within 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.599 Parliament and that can kind of force the right 00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:15.500 minister to sort of get involved. So, yeah, things 00:27:15.500 --> 00:27:17.460 are really happening, which is really exciting. 00:27:17.900 --> 00:27:20.579 It's so exciting. If anybody listening to this 00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:23.529 is hearing about this, either has. a story to 00:27:23.529 --> 00:27:26.410 either share with you or is totally sold. Of 00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:27.869 course, this is the right thing to do and want 00:27:27.869 --> 00:27:30.690 to get involved. How would they do that? Yeah, 00:27:30.710 --> 00:27:34.150 so if they message me on sort of any social media 00:27:34.150 --> 00:27:36.809 really, but Instagram, Spinning World of Autism, 00:27:36.829 --> 00:27:39.809 and how they can share to start off with is sign 00:27:39.809 --> 00:27:43.880 the petition. I've also got a really easy email 00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:46.579 that they can send to their MP to ask them to 00:27:46.579 --> 00:27:49.200 sign the early day motion. But I've also got 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.019 a WhatsApp group, which actually has a couple 00:27:51.019 --> 00:27:52.900 of speech therapists in, as it is only like five 00:27:52.900 --> 00:27:55.480 or six of us, but the real kind of core kind 00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:57.619 of people that have been doing this right from 00:27:57.619 --> 00:27:59.559 the start. You know, if someone has got some 00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:01.579 extra time to give and wants to be involved, 00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:04.019 they can be in there. One of my followers, actually, 00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:06.539 she might have an opportunity to raise a campaign 00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:10.380 on BBC Question Time because she's in wherever. 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:12.440 Andy Burnham is and all of that that's going 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:14.900 on. And she potentially might be able to raise 00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:17.839 a campaign there. So kind of any ideas and any 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.200 support people can give. But sharing with your 00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:22.140 MP, I think, is one of the most important steps. 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:24.160 Fantastic. And great that you've got a template. 00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:26.259 So even if you've only got a few minutes or not 00:28:26.259 --> 00:28:28.579 even, if you've got 30 seconds, use the template 00:28:28.579 --> 00:28:33.019 and send it to your MP would be. incredibly helpful 00:28:33.019 --> 00:28:35.299 and makes such a difference to these this very 00:28:35.299 --> 00:28:38.119 important part of our community that are completely 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:40.960 being let down by not in just this but by let 00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:43.039 down in lots of ways and this is a huge part 00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:45.400 that that you know could really help because 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.789 ultimately the more autistic voices, and I don't 00:28:48.789 --> 00:28:50.589 say voices meaning speech, I say voices in a 00:28:50.589 --> 00:28:52.410 lot of different ways, but the more autistic 00:28:52.410 --> 00:28:55.069 voices we are hearing, the better everything 00:28:55.069 --> 00:28:58.029 we'll get for our autistic community. By removing 00:28:58.029 --> 00:29:01.009 their voice, it's removing a lot of their desires, 00:29:01.289 --> 00:29:03.950 needs, wants, wishes, feedback, and all of those 00:29:03.950 --> 00:29:06.809 very important things. Yeah. And I always say 00:29:06.809 --> 00:29:09.609 that, you know, this isn't just about communication. 00:29:10.269 --> 00:29:14.829 This is Ethan's life. within that it's communication 00:29:14.829 --> 00:29:18.009 supports his mental health his friendships his 00:29:18.009 --> 00:29:21.569 connections his opportunities whether that's 00:29:21.569 --> 00:29:25.250 jobs or internships or you know it supports every 00:29:25.250 --> 00:29:28.630 element of his life and i think that's just really 00:29:28.630 --> 00:29:31.430 important to really kind of shout from the rooftops 00:29:31.430 --> 00:29:34.170 it supports everything for an autistic individual 00:29:34.859 --> 00:29:36.420 Yeah, by limiting communication, you're limiting 00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:38.680 everything. And I think that is an incredibly 00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:42.140 important place to end this conversation because 00:29:42.140 --> 00:29:45.940 by offering communication opportunities, you're 00:29:45.940 --> 00:29:48.680 then opening up opportunities and everything. 00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:50.819 And that's the point we don't want to limit. 00:29:51.339 --> 00:29:53.660 at this wonderful, really important community. 00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:56.740 Thank you so much, Laura, for joining. I will 00:29:56.740 --> 00:29:58.859 leave all of the links to everything down below. 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:00.940 I will leave social media links, website links, 00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:04.900 the template to send to MPs and anything else 00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:06.839 that Laura shares, I will keep it up to date 00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:09.700 so you can very easily get involved with this 00:30:09.700 --> 00:30:11.880 incredibly important campaign. Laura, thank you 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.839 so much. And please, please keep sharing on your 00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:17.099 incredible social media page, your beautiful 00:30:17.099 --> 00:30:19.480 personal journey and also everything you're doing 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:22.279 with the world. It's such a... joy to see such 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:26.180 an incredibly dedicated family and incredible 00:30:26.180 --> 00:30:30.259 progress that Ethan is making in so many ways 00:30:30.259 --> 00:30:35.640 it's it really brings hope to me that that it's 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.819 possible and it's worth to keep fighting because 00:30:37.819 --> 00:30:39.720 so often we can be stuck in this bubble like 00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:41.599 you said social media you know we can end up 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:43.700 in like an echo chamber we're all doing the same 00:30:43.700 --> 00:30:47.390 things and so often our bubble is burst in the 00:30:47.390 --> 00:30:49.890 real world with just a complete lack of understanding 00:30:49.890 --> 00:30:52.869 so please keep sharing and yeah definitely go 00:30:52.869 --> 00:30:55.130 and follow spinning world of autism it's an absolute 00:30:55.130 --> 00:30:59.029 joy to uh to watch thanks laura