Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
As I did last summer holidays, I'm going to kind
of run a roundup of this academic year's podcast
episodes over the next few weeks for you to enjoy.
And maybe you missed a couple and you want to
come back. So, yeah, here are my favorite clips
from the last year. Enjoy. And you also find,
I think, with certain interests, you find your
people as well. So I think, again, this is just.
talking from like lived experiences personal
experiences but you find other people who like
the same interests as you and because socializing
and it can be so tricky for our neurodivergent
people it makes it a bit easier because then
if you've got an interest with pokemon and someone
else has got an interest in pokemon you've got
a conversation well you've got days of conversation
there that you can really you know go to town
and like connect with someone over a shared interest
Because the reality is neurodivergent people
don't want to talk about the weather. They don't
want to talk about the small things. They want
to really get into, like, their interests. It's
so true. Weddings are my nightmare. Short, like,
short conversations. Well, they're not short.
They're all day where you're sat with somebody
that you don't know and you're never going to
see again, you don't actually care about. And
you have to make conversation with them all day
and you have to act interested. It is my worst
nightmare. I hate it. But if I found out, like,
that they were a special education teacher, all
of a sudden, I'm loving life. I've got loads
to talk to them about. Or any of my other interests.
All of a sudden, it's easier. So yeah, if you're
going to... a comic con convention it's way less
scary because you know that you won't bore these
people and you can ask the questions that you
actually want to know about and and know it will
be received and you might even learn something
about a fresh interest which is really exciting
I mean that's why I love these podcasts honestly
because it's me chatting to people that have
the same interests as me and it's so exciting
I get to really absorb that and talk about it
in really like deep detail and learn more and
it's really exciting it really stretches that
interest for me whereas if this I couldn't have
a podcast about another subject the general thing
I couldn't I wouldn't know what to say I wouldn't
enjoy it no so yeah yeah I think that's a community
that's a really really good benefit isn't it
of having those really clear obvious special
interests and another reason why we want to encourage
that you know if there's a few children in your
school even if they're at different ages but
have similar interests maybe we have a lego club
or maybe we have a disney club or maybe we have
a burrito train set club whatever it is that
your children are interested in maybe have a
cooking club whatever it is because then they
can have shared interests that is the fundamental
basis of friendship isn't it regardless of age
i've certainly learned that getting older and
older like my friends are all sorts of ages now
i've got teenage friends and i've got retired
friends and really really really good friends
and it's because as an adult you're almost allowed
to be friends with who you want to be friends
with rather than at school the same year group
with those same people isn't it absolutely also
uh I think when you're in like say a club or
like a group with a group of people who have
those same interests you don't feel judged it's
actually like what we said about before about
feeling judged or you know you may you know you
may feel you may feel that judgment you don't
like you say like for example you said comic
-con you can go there and people are not judging
you at comic -con because you're celebrating
say absolutely the things that you actually might
be judged for walking to your supermarket or
down into your local village are celebrated and
that's huge like you're not going to be hiding
it because i'd hate to think that people out
there loving certain things but don't want to
but kind of keep them keep that part of them
hidden because of the fear of being judged but
actually there's a lot of you know a lot of people
out there that do do that because they think
oh it's not age appropriate like I don't even
say I've got like loads of pop figures pop figures
is something else that I collect And it's like,
art figures are for children. Are they? Why?
Why? I think that's what to say, right? Because
that was going to be my final closing question
was, if people are listening to this and they've
started the school term and you've got a couple
of children in your class and they have these
kind of interests that are deemed not age appropriate
for their chronological age and you've got maybe
part of your team or some of your senior leadership
team are kind of really putting pressure on you
to make a change with that. or the school are
and you're the parent whatever we feel feeling
that pressure what's a what's a good tactic what's
a good strategy what's something to say or do
in that situation to ensure that you are protecting
that young person as their advocate let's talk
about your journey with this then Because I'm
wondering from a psychotherapist lens, the weight
of a family carrying that. you know navigating
the ROM setting and not necessarily having a
choice before she got her new school what kind
of what did that what happened for you what did
that feel like for you and how did you navigate
that? I mean being a psychotherapist I have tools
and resources but when I look back on some of
my journal journal it was almost like being really
isolated cased in a single cubicle and sort of
trying to bang on these walls doors to be lit
free or for someone to hear me and you know as
i said we're waiting for an assessment but you
know you know your child and it's almost like
you have to jump through so many hoops for so
long for them to tell you what's innate in you
that you know especially when you've been keeping
journals yeah yeah the evidence is there the
evidence is clear and still yet they ask you
to wait and monitor and report Yeah, it's frustrating.
What tools, if there's parents listening here
that are in exactly that space, in that cubicle,
banging on those walls and relentless cubicles
as well. You just get through one door and then
you find yourself in another cubicle. It's relentless.
Are there any strategies or support systems that
you could suggest that could help them? Actually,
yeah. I mean, given my time, I've kept a journal
and I've taken strands from that journal and
I've sort of... compiled a self -care guide for
parents with special needs because within my
practice I do have a lot of parents who come
to me with children who have special needs and
I also have a lot of parents themselves who have
special needs so you have that sort of like a
special needs child and you also have special
needs hitting each other as well which is another
layer so for me sort of compiled sort of top
10 things to think about and one is your mental
health and protecting your mental health and
for me it was letting go being a perfect parent
wow yeah wow that was powerful so often we need
to be everybody we need to wear every hat we
need to be everything that everybody else is
failing our child without just recognizing that
we're already everything they need us to be.
That is so powerful. Yeah. And there's a great
clinician, a psychotherapist, Donald Winnicott,
that says The Good Enough Parent, which is a
really good book to read. So, you know, I've
learned I've had good days and bad days. I've
had good days and bad days. I feel frustrated.
I feel I don't have all the answers, you know,
and that's okay. I ask for help. You know, I
have my own therapist for this reason. I am a
therapist, but I also have my own therapist for
this reason. So I will always ask for help. Yeah.
That's a great first strategy. Acceptance. Accept
what you can do that is realistic. And you're
probably doing a lot. Yeah. Amazing. What else
is on the list? Learn about your child's needs.
But I would, from my own experience, not overwhelm
yourself. Because obviously I would delve deep
into manuals and books and go online and listen
to all of that. And it can be quite overwhelming.
And I would say. You know your child. Yeah. You
know your child. Yeah, you're the expert in them.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And even when you're
told your child is dyslexic or has autism or
ADHD, it's vast. It's not the same for everybody.
So I take what Mia has and I adapt to our nuclear
family, our living arrangements, our relationship.
Yeah. Yeah, and a lot of those strategies that
work, you've probably already found them even
though you didn't know why or how they work.
You're probably already doing it. I see parents
a lot that are naturally doing the things that
I support parents to do because they've found
their way, because they're the expert in their
child and what their child needs. It's a really
cool point. Yeah. And I would say find your people,
find your tribe, people you can connect to, other
parents, support groups, podcasts like this.
So important to find your tribe and your allies.
Yeah. Because it can be lonely and isolating.
At least there's other people in the cubicle
with you then. Yeah. For sure. For sure. And
also just take time. Mia has pit stops, but so
do I. Yeah. So to have a coffee, a tea, just
sit and do nothing, which is something. Yeah.
And know that that's enough. That's still part
of the support of your child. It's not selfish.
Yeah. No. Self -care, a lot of mums particularly,
but dads as well, think self -care is being selfish.
But I always say if the pot is empty and it's
not replenished, how can anyone dip into it?
Yeah. It's that co -regulation, isn't it? How
could they be regulated if you're not regulated?
It works both ways, doesn't it? So you helping
yourself helps them. It's allowing that. It's
giving yourself grace in that. Yeah. One, I would
say trust your intuition about what they need
and don't be afraid to ask for help. And if you
feel like it's not the right help, keep going
because, you know, I've got quite a few kids
on my caseload who had seen other OTs previously
and they just didn't, they don't know about PDA
or that's not their cup of tea, I guess. And
so they're coming to me having a not so great
experience and then... When they see that things
can be playful and that can be child led and
they're like, this is so different. And, but
the thing is even for the minority that aren't
PDAs, I work in the same way anyway, because
it's so empowering for children. And I think
the things like when I think back to when we
were in school can't and some of the bigger aggressions
that were happening. We were thinking, oh, this
is just PDA. This is just PDA. And it actually
wasn't. It was grief. So the other thing to remember
is it's not always PDA, but sometimes we think
it's all just nervous system disability and where
they're at. But they have other really valid
feelings too. And we need to be looking out for
some of those because. I think as a group of
children, they do experience quite a bit of trauma
as well, because as a child, you don't get a
lot of autonomy and choice. And even with really
parents that are well -meaning and are doing
their best, there are things that are going to
happen that, you know, it's, I think, yeah, a
really tricky thing. And just that, you know,
I think you can have, there's a lot of talk about
radical acceptance, and I think that is very
much needed as well. But you also, like, this
is just my personal values. I just have, I'm
a very hopeful person and I have a lot of gratitude.
And I think you need all three of those things.
You need to be able to, as we talked about before,
witness the small wins and be able to see, yeah,
your child. as a whole person just as they are
and know that they are growing and changing that
neuroplasticity does exist it won't take away
the PDA but nothing stays the same ever it'll
shift and it might be minute it might be minute
but there will be a shift and a change yeah as
I said and yeah try and create community for
yourself because it can be so isolating if you're
stuck in the house and just feeling like nobody
understands this and you're alone you're really
there's so there are many families in exactly
your situation and the more we can take the shame
away from what's going on and talk about it because
there's no there's no possible way I don't think
for two nervous systems or three to be at such
a heightened place buffering off each other all
the time without one or more people going into
burnout it's just it's not possible and yet you
can be doing everything that you can at home
and school might not be on board and it's a hard
it's a tricky path to walk and yeah trying to
make those decisions as to you know whether you
homeschool for a period of time and try and re
-engage but it's really hard to find what works
but I think, yeah, it's, yeah, but yeah. And
I just, I just respect PDA parents so much. Like
I just, yeah, they're some of the most, yeah,
really beautiful people. Yeah. And they wholeheartedly
believe and advocate for their children so well.
So well. Yeah. I think that's one thing that
PDA does really well is it actually nurtures
such beautiful parenting. Like I have met so
many wonderful parents of PDAs that just know
their children so well, advocate for their children
so well, manage their needs just almost effortlessly.
Like they might have never been taught this stuff
officially. They just know how to say certain
things, how to portray, you know, whatever it
is they need to do. They just find these beautiful
ways. And I'm constantly learning from the amazing
parenting of PDAs. So, yeah, credit. If you're
listening to this and you believe your child
is a PDA, diagnosed or not, we just think you're
doing such an incredible job. And if you're listening
to this and you're not sure if your child is
or not, good PDA practice is just good practice.
So whether you're a teacher or a parent, maybe
try some of this stuff. Look at the PDA Society.
Look up good PDA practice. It genuinely is good
practice. It wouldn't do any harm to any other
child or student if you test it out. these things
it just lessens anxiety it gives them more autonomy
um and it just makes it more fun to yeah teach
them parent them and all of those kind of things
so it's just good practice so if you're in doubt
don't be in doubt of the strategies just test
them out and yeah you will see that kind of connection
building that anxiety reduce for sure And we,
I can attest to that firsthand. We lost a pupil
last year and we weren't prepared. We weren't
ready. And it was. a beautiful mess but trying
to navigate that with a class and support your
team and support the pupils and the parents you
know you're so close with the parents aren't
you in special education kind of trying to support
everybody whilst trying to also manage ourselves
and find suitable and appropriate things to do
was just an absolute minefield so if we'd have
already been doing that we already had the resource
knew the resource already practicing some of
those things you know like Like we said before,
it doesn't have to be somebody passing away.
There's lots of loss. So there's no reason why
you couldn't do regular activities on loss. staff
members that have moved on you know friends that
are year six and they've gone to a new school
you know all those kind of things and practice
that because then if and when it does happen
and unfortunately it's really common in our field
of work that we would sadly lose some people
that we work with it's one reason why you have
class pets so that they experience some loss
yeah yeah because we all experience loss in our
lives don't we yeah I think it's too easy to
assume that our pupils aren't aware and don't
feel the loss. Even on a sensory level, even
if it is on a sensory level, they will miss the
sounds that are now not there or the smells that
now aren't there. And the love. I think they
miss the love. Yeah. Yeah. And I've noticed that
with my learners that are guest language processors,
so do have some phrases and some words, they
were able to say that they miss this pupil, which
told us that then all of them would. You know,
that was our little cue of, you know, no. If
the ones that are speaking are speaking about
him, then it means that. The ones that aren't
speaking are thinking about him. Yeah, and a
healthy way is to talk, isn't it? It's, you know,
talking therapy and stuff. So, you know, for
our non -verbal kids, we would just do however
we communicate with them normally. So, like,
I've written story message for, you know, losing
grandad, losing a pet, you know, breaking up
with somebody, you know. Right. All sorts, you
know. There's all sorts of loss, you know. Even
moving house, you know. Yeah. Breaking her favourite
toy. Yes, yeah. It's all loss, isn't it? Yeah.
We use the book Rabbitiness. I don't know if
you know it. Oh, I've also put together a huge,
huge book list. Every time someone comments on
social media, oh, we use this one. I'm like,
we'll add that to the list. Yeah, Rabbitiness
is so perfect for us. And he was particularly
loved being. It's obviously all about rabbits.
And this story is beautiful, all about loss,
isn't it? And how to share their legacy and view
music and colour. And it was so perfect. Every
year now, we will have a Rabbitiness Day. well
yeah to remember our friend particularly obviously
remember him every day but yeah to remember him
particularly you can also do things like you
know autobiography umbrellas and autobiography
sensory bags and stuff and so you're doing that
you know we're finding all about ourselves and
all about me in a while we're living but you
know when someone passes they're really useful
because you've got in a bag and all about me
that's you know their their favorite things you
know this is the music i like this is the smell
i like you know this is one of my favorite toys
i really love this show you know i really like
that and it's all created by them It's their
choices. Yeah. Their preferences. I mean, you
could do it for anything, you know, I did a sensory
umbrella for a dog one, you know, so I've got
an umbrella that's just got like paws on and
then hanging off like. certain toys or bits of
blankets or bits of smells and stuff and then
it's a it's a focal point to talk about the things
as well isn't it or remember he used to like
playing with this toy you know or here's his
little name tag how cute's that you know and
it gives you a little something to you know grieve
together over yeah well like we would with concrete
props and sensory resources you know 24 7 yeah
absolutely so why not do it with everything and
even a tricky topic yeah Can it work for all
ages and stages? You know, thinking about age
appropriateness. Yeah, absolutely. Can we talk
about that for a second? Of course, yes. Because
I heard you talk about, you know, a telly tubby
story and things. Yeah. I'm sure you can guess
what I think about that, but I'd love to hear
your views on age appropriateness. We have a
day centre by us and I asked them about the Teletubby
thing. And they said if my godson had turned
up with a Teletubby, they would take it off him
and give him a more appropriate soft toy, which
to me is absolutely ridiculous. It would mean
absolutely nothing to him. He was Teletubby obsessed.
You know, he could choose an episode of Teletubbies
that he wanted to watch. I don't know, a Minecraft
figure or whatever it'd be these days. It would
be completely irrelevant and mean absolutely
nothing to him. And I think that's, it's cruel.
You know, I think. Yeah, and I know lots of adults
that are really into Disney. Absolutely. Disney
seems to be an acceptable one. Or, you know,
whatever. Like there were lots of things that
all of us like. Yeah, absolutely. Because they
just feel nice. They feel good. They feel nostalgic.
They bring us joy. Yeah. Who's to put a number
to that? Like I do think it's genuinely bizarre.
simply since we say stage not age yes and Flo
Longhorn says person appropriate yes because
it's really you know you might have someone you
know at a cognitive level that's that's quite
low but then they might you know sort of I don't
know have I don't know a relationship with someone
you know a boyfriend girlfriend type relationship
you know you can't sort of say they're at a particular
It's very hard to say that someone's at a particular
sort of level because there's so many different
sort of facets to our sort of personality, aren't
there? But, you know, I think if you are at that
level, it's really important that whatever you
find comforting, whatever makes you feel safe,
you're allowed to have. And it should be utilised
to the absolute max. If anybody anywhere in any
school has got any kind of interest or whatever,
you would just use it. as a reward but use it
as part of your what you're doing you know sort
of like if you're counting so i've just written
this this morning actually if you're counting
something you might as well be counting paw patrol
you know compare that to a worksheet you know
if you've got something right in front of you
that's tangible and real you can touch it you
can hold it and it's your favorite characters
you know you need to use what's what's of interest
and what's motivating to encourage people to
learn and encourage them to remember That leads
us quite nicely onto something I wanted to talk
about, which is navigating consent with all learners.
We're able to give verbal consent or even sometimes
clear physical consent. How do you navigate that
when you're doing things like TACPAC or massages
or intimate care even, or even just hoisting,
moving from chair to chair? How are you navigating
that? consent with your learners so once again
it's a really it's a really what do i say it's
a really tricky thing to navigate um because
i have for example in my class we do have um
a variety of learners some who can give very
very clear um gestural or sort of vocal consent
um Or, you know, indicating, you know, I disapprove,
get away from me. We've had, you know, and during
things like TAPPAC, that's incredibly useful.
If they don't like a certain texture or a sound,
they might use a facial expressions or vocalizations.
And to, you know, from getting to know those
learners, they can clearly indicate, I don't
like this. When it comes to our more passive
learners, that is where it is definitely still,
I would say, a work in progress in our class.
I don't necessarily... feel that there is so
there's definitely not a one -size -fits -all
and the way that i'm trying to support with say
consent during intimate care is by ensuring that
our school has got an intimate care policy and
i've sort of recently supported with writing
that to be as clear as and consistent as possible
and then also implementing intimate care plans
um still a relatively new thing in our setting
but by doing that It gives us more opportunity
to actually think about how our learners communicate.
And we already have things like communication
passports that explicitly say, you know, why
does this learner communicate? How do they communicate?
What their communication might look like? And
I go into the very, very intimate details, you
know. So, for example, one of my learners mostly
communicates through eye movement, maybe occasional
mouth movement or some sighing. or like a deeper
breath if they're like particularly relaxed.
And I make sure that I've detailed all of those
things in their communication passport. And then
we try and look for those signals during intimate
care and go from there. It's so tricky, but it's
interesting that, you know, discussing this is
something that we've been discussing over the
last term is in terms of swimming and hydrotherapy.
So I have... A couple of learners, like I said,
who are very passive, quiet and sleep a lot.
Yes, yes. They either don't sleep so well at
night or their bodies just need that extra rest
and it can mean that they can be asleep for the
entire school day. And that's where navigating
consent becomes a real sort of minefield because
you're very aware that basic care needs need
to be met. They require feeds, they require medication,
they require... pad changes they require that
intimate care how do you then tackle things like
postural care and swimming when that learner
is asleep especially when you know that hydrotherapy
or being in the pool is incredibly beneficial
for that learner but you can't wake them up how
do you navigate that and it's something that
we I don't really have an answer to because I
think of it from two different perspectives.
If that learner or if it were me and I was asleep
and I'd been taken into a changing room where
the light's really bright and it's really hot
and I'm having all my clothes taken off and all
of a sudden I wake up and I'm submerged in water.
Yes, I might have someone holding me, but I'm
submerged in water with essentially no warning.
That would be terrifying, right? So how do we
navigate that with a learner? needs that hydrotherapy
but doesn't wake up for example and then from
the other perspective I've sort of discussed
this with the people at school is that we felt
like right well if that learner is asleep they
can't consent to doing this activity this position
change but ultimately that's still what they
need to and it's your duty of care it's a duty
of care so it's my concerns about consent am
I projecting my concerns about consent onto that
onto that learner when actually they just want
their needs care overrides that i think you are
a beautiful teacher for having these concerns
that just shows your heart is in the right place
but i think ultimately it isn't your responsibility
to make these choices it comes down to the parents
or carers to make these choices and it just comes
down to again having a really great relationship
with them and i think parents would really appreciate
being asked yeah when they are asleep what do
you want us to do and us just having to do that
and trust that the parent knows best in the situation
and that helps me sleep at night knowing you
know the person that knows and loves them best
has made this decision yeah absolutely and if
it makes me feel really uncomfortable then we
can have another conversation about it absolutely
ultimately I just think that just takes off a
huge amount of pressure and responsibility from
our shoulders and gives it to the parents and
guardians who should be making those choices
for their children. Yeah. And sometimes I think
as well, it can depend sort of week on week as
well. You might have a learner who's sleeping
all day because they haven't slept all night.
And in that particular instance, that parent
might actually say, do you know what, please
just let them sleep. they they need their sleep
just leave them to it whereas another week it
might be completely different and they might
actually need that yeah they might need that
stimulation actually it might get them it might
wake them up but it's oh it's just it's balance
isn't it yeah it's hard it's something that we're
constantly asking ourselves though isn't it is
you know what's right in this situation because
we can't ask them same for i had a conversation
with parents and just before breaking up actually
they've got an upcoming possible medical intervention
but it's the parents decision to go ahead with
it or not which is a huge responsibility for
the parents and they were asking my advice and
god that's you know what a conversation to have
you know and there's no right or wrong in this
situation ultimately there are risks with both
and there are benefits possible benefits with
both and you just have to sit with your decision
you've made I suppose and and but it's amazing
that we have these conversations regularly and
that we're involved in these and ultimately you
do just have to make the best gut choice and
with the professional's advice that you've got
access to and live with your decision ultimately