WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.539 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.539 --> 00:00:22.559 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:28.070 --> 00:00:30.730 Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Sensory 00:00:30.730 --> 00:00:33.469 Classroom podcast. My name is Jordan, and today 00:00:33.469 --> 00:00:36.189 I am joined by Martha, an occupational therapist 00:00:36.189 --> 00:00:39.670 specializing in sensory regulation and through 00:00:39.670 --> 00:00:43.030 child -led play -based approach. I'm really excited 00:00:43.030 --> 00:00:44.890 to speak to Martha today. As you all know, that 00:00:44.890 --> 00:00:46.990 is very much up my alley. So when Martha reached 00:00:46.990 --> 00:00:49.530 out to me, I jumped at the chance to speak to 00:00:49.530 --> 00:00:52.960 her. Hi, Martha. Hi, Jordan. Thank you so much 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:55.079 for having me on the podcast. I'm so excited 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:57.200 to be here. So I'm Martha. I'm an occupational 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:00.359 therapist. I work mainly with children and young 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:02.560 people who are neurodivergent, but I also support 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:05.019 children who have experienced trauma in their 00:01:05.019 --> 00:01:07.000 background. I support children in mainstream 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:09.299 and specialist settings, also within a clinic 00:01:09.299 --> 00:01:11.459 setting and within their homes. So I do a bit 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:14.379 of a mix. I use a very, very much a child led 00:01:14.379 --> 00:01:17.019 play based approach, focusing on nervous system 00:01:17.019 --> 00:01:20.099 safety, sensory regulation, and always kind of 00:01:20.099 --> 00:01:21.909 following the lead of the child so I'm really 00:01:21.909 --> 00:01:24.170 excited to have a chat with you Jordan because 00:01:24.170 --> 00:01:26.950 I know that's hugely what you do as well absolutely 00:01:26.950 --> 00:01:29.650 and it and yeah it just brings so much joy to 00:01:29.650 --> 00:01:32.510 work in that way doesn't it it's honestly the 00:01:32.510 --> 00:01:34.409 best when you let go of all the expectations 00:01:34.409 --> 00:01:37.730 of compliance -based approaches and you just 00:01:38.060 --> 00:01:40.299 be with the child it's just so beautiful and 00:01:40.299 --> 00:01:43.040 so magical and so many incredible things happen 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:45.439 from working in that way. This podcast has come 00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:47.780 at a perfect time we've spent the last two podcasts 00:01:47.780 --> 00:01:51.239 that I've recorded talking about the difference 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:53.980 between compliance -based and compassionate -based 00:01:53.980 --> 00:01:57.260 approaches so it comes perfect time that we've 00:01:57.260 --> 00:01:59.379 had that conversation now we can talk about well 00:01:59.379 --> 00:02:01.959 what does it really look like what does a neuroaffirming 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:05.859 approach look like in an OT in a sensory regulation 00:02:05.859 --> 00:02:08.849 sense. I suppose before we get into that, though... 00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:12.590 You're starting by explaining why a person might 00:02:12.590 --> 00:02:14.849 need your services in the first place, why they 00:02:14.849 --> 00:02:17.009 might have sensory needs and what that really 00:02:17.009 --> 00:02:19.789 means. Yeah, of course. So our nervous systems 00:02:19.789 --> 00:02:22.849 are constantly taking in, filtering and responding 00:02:22.849 --> 00:02:25.349 to sensory information from the environment and 00:02:25.349 --> 00:02:28.110 from within our bodies. So things like sound, 00:02:28.250 --> 00:02:30.789 light, touch. I think we're all aware of our 00:02:30.789 --> 00:02:33.430 five main senses, but there's also three other 00:02:33.430 --> 00:02:36.650 senses that might not be so obvious. So there's 00:02:36.650 --> 00:02:39.379 our vestibular, proprioceptive senses, which 00:02:39.379 --> 00:02:42.800 are very much connected to our movement and where 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:45.240 our body is in space. So that kind of deep pressure, 00:02:45.340 --> 00:02:47.240 that seeking, that kind of spinning movements, 00:02:47.340 --> 00:02:49.680 the jumping, the crashing, and those kind of 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:51.919 movements that we see as our proprioceptive and 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:53.979 our vestibular senses. And then there's also 00:02:53.979 --> 00:02:56.099 a really interesting one, which I don't think 00:02:56.099 --> 00:02:58.860 enough people know about, but our interoceptive 00:02:58.860 --> 00:03:02.889 sense, which is our internal... So our body signals 00:03:02.889 --> 00:03:04.849 that tell us when we're hungry, when we're thirsty, 00:03:05.069 --> 00:03:07.789 when we feel pain, when we need the toilet. And 00:03:07.789 --> 00:03:10.330 these can be really impacted. These three in 00:03:10.330 --> 00:03:12.490 particular are really impacted for children who 00:03:12.490 --> 00:03:16.340 are autistic, who maybe are ADHD. Typically, 00:03:16.419 --> 00:03:18.620 our neurodivergent kids will always have some 00:03:18.620 --> 00:03:21.020 sort of sensory processing needs. But it's important 00:03:21.020 --> 00:03:23.860 to know as well that sensory processing needs 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:26.219 can exist for people who don't have a diagnosis 00:03:26.219 --> 00:03:28.960 as well. So it's not just looking at our neurodivergent 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:30.740 kids. And I think when we look at the school 00:03:30.740 --> 00:03:33.620 environment, it's so sensory rich. There's so 00:03:33.620 --> 00:03:35.840 much noise. It's busy. There's so many expectations 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:38.460 to follow. They're expected to sit at desks that 00:03:38.460 --> 00:03:40.979 might be uncomfortable. And when we look at that 00:03:40.979 --> 00:03:44.280 in context, I think a lot of children struggle 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:46.620 with sensory processing. within the school environment 00:03:46.620 --> 00:03:49.120 because of how harsh that environment can be 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.419 unless we make accommodations to support them. 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:55.240 So it's important to know that we all have sensory 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:56.979 preferences. You know, there's no right or wrong 00:03:56.979 --> 00:04:01.039 way to process sensory input, but there are children 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:03.099 who might be more susceptible to having sensory 00:04:03.099 --> 00:04:06.500 needs, particularly our autistic kids. Yeah, 00:04:06.539 --> 00:04:08.419 because sensory needs, we're all sensory beings. 00:04:08.500 --> 00:04:11.240 It's a human, very human thing to be able to 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.139 read and prefer certain sensory things. I think 00:04:14.139 --> 00:04:17.060 maybe that brings with it a little bit of confusion 00:04:17.060 --> 00:04:19.839 and muddiness to the conversation that everybody's 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:22.160 autistic or everybody has sensory needs. And 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.779 yes, everybody has sensory preferences. But it's 00:04:25.779 --> 00:04:29.379 the impact of those sensory needs on our autistic 00:04:29.379 --> 00:04:31.439 learners or on our neurodivergent learners, on 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:35.579 our premature baby learners or those with anything 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:38.420 muscular, I suppose. It's the impact on their 00:04:38.420 --> 00:04:41.540 life, why they might need that even more extra 00:04:41.540 --> 00:04:44.740 input than the average child does. However, as 00:04:44.740 --> 00:04:48.379 you perfectly put, every child benefits from. 00:04:49.509 --> 00:04:52.209 individualized approach certainly but even whole 00:04:52.209 --> 00:04:55.470 class approaches can be really beneficial can't 00:04:55.470 --> 00:04:58.149 they Exactly. And I'm always saying that actually 00:04:58.149 --> 00:05:01.129 these supports that tend to work for our neurodivergent 00:05:01.129 --> 00:05:03.730 kids actually work for the whole class because 00:05:03.730 --> 00:05:06.709 it is just things like using sensory tools and 00:05:06.709 --> 00:05:09.370 flexible seating and reducing the expectations 00:05:09.370 --> 00:05:11.769 and reducing the demands that actually supports 00:05:11.769 --> 00:05:14.069 all of our learners. Because when we look at 00:05:14.069 --> 00:05:17.610 the school day as a whole, there are so many 00:05:17.610 --> 00:05:20.149 demands throughout the whole day, not just learning 00:05:20.149 --> 00:05:22.709 demands, sensory demands, communication demands, 00:05:23.009 --> 00:05:27.639 social demands. so much onto our kids every single 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:30.120 day and expecting them to show up in the same 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:32.680 way every single day when we know as well that 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:34.980 fluctuating capacity is such a huge thing for 00:05:34.980 --> 00:05:38.079 our neurodivergent kids. But I think what's important 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:40.019 to remember when we're thinking about sensory 00:05:40.019 --> 00:05:43.019 needs, like you said, it is the impact of those. 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:45.579 A lot of us will have sensory preferences, but 00:05:45.579 --> 00:05:49.019 it won't impact every aspect of our day. Whereas 00:05:49.019 --> 00:05:51.379 for our autistic kids, they might experience 00:05:51.379 --> 00:05:53.920 sensory input more intensely than the average 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:57.279 person. So it might make certain sounds or textures 00:05:57.279 --> 00:05:59.680 or environments feel really overwhelming for 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:01.439 them. So you might notice that a child is really 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:03.480 sensitive to noise and they're constantly putting 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:05.600 their hands over their ears. Or you might notice 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:07.660 that it's having like that impact after school 00:06:07.660 --> 00:06:09.939 and they're having those after school meltdowns 00:06:09.939 --> 00:06:12.370 after holding it together all day. They might 00:06:12.370 --> 00:06:13.990 find the labels on their clothes uncomfortable, 00:06:14.110 --> 00:06:15.750 so you might need to look at getting them some 00:06:15.750 --> 00:06:17.930 scene -free clothing or, you know, removing the 00:06:17.930 --> 00:06:20.550 labels. But then it's also important to remember 00:06:20.550 --> 00:06:23.329 that some kids might need more sensory input 00:06:23.329 --> 00:06:26.009 so they have a higher threshold in order to feel 00:06:26.009 --> 00:06:28.310 regulated, in order to feel focused, to feel 00:06:28.310 --> 00:06:30.970 connected to their bodies. So if you think of 00:06:30.970 --> 00:06:32.990 the children who are constantly on the go, so 00:06:32.990 --> 00:06:35.149 the ones who are jumping, they're crashing, they're 00:06:35.149 --> 00:06:37.050 spinning, they're running, I think we all have 00:06:37.050 --> 00:06:39.610 seen those kids in a classroom before where you 00:06:39.610 --> 00:06:41.959 just are kind of like... They're going to hurt 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:45.019 themselves, but they actually need so much more 00:06:45.019 --> 00:06:47.180 input than the average person because they have 00:06:47.180 --> 00:06:49.660 a higher threshold for sensory input. And it's 00:06:49.660 --> 00:06:51.199 also really important to remember, it's quite 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:54.180 interesting because some kids might be sensory 00:06:54.180 --> 00:06:57.720 seeking for certain inputs. So you might see 00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:59.279 that they're constantly jumping and crashing, 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.180 kind of seeking that vestibular and proprioceptive 00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:04.560 input that they get from that. But then they 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:06.839 might be really sensitive to things like noise, 00:07:06.939 --> 00:07:09.139 to things like food textures. You know, we know 00:07:09.139 --> 00:07:12.259 that ARFID is a really big thing. for for neurodivergent 00:07:12.259 --> 00:07:15.000 children and food textures can be really difficult 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.839 for them they might only have like five or six 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:20.800 safe foods and typically we see that that's like 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:22.879 the crunchy foods the foods that's consistent 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:25.160 the cracker that you get out of a packet that 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:28.060 always looks the same rather than our fruit and 00:07:28.060 --> 00:07:29.879 veg which might always be different you know 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:31.959 a strawberry is never the same strawberry whereas 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.980 a cracker is always the same cracker so it's 00:07:34.980 --> 00:07:37.120 important to remember that your child might be 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:40.329 seeking certain inputs and then they might be 00:07:40.329 --> 00:07:43.129 avoiding others. So it's really helpful if you 00:07:43.129 --> 00:07:46.589 can to have an OT do a sensory profile for your 00:07:46.589 --> 00:07:49.110 child so that you're not just guessing. I mean, 00:07:49.129 --> 00:07:51.970 I think parents have a really good idea of what 00:07:51.970 --> 00:07:55.069 their child needs anyway and what I find is you 00:07:55.069 --> 00:07:57.490 often get parents naturally making accommodations 00:07:57.490 --> 00:07:59.629 for their kids so you know they're not bringing 00:07:59.629 --> 00:08:02.689 them to noisy or busy areas they're letting them 00:08:02.689 --> 00:08:05.089 jump and crash off the couch onto the cushions 00:08:05.089 --> 00:08:09.009 whereas in school those needs might go unmet 00:08:09.009 --> 00:08:12.069 because they're not having those people making 00:08:12.069 --> 00:08:15.009 minor adjustments for them all the time. Which 00:08:15.009 --> 00:08:16.930 is why it's so important that teachers and schools 00:08:16.930 --> 00:08:19.250 need to be involving the parents and listening 00:08:19.250 --> 00:08:21.470 to them. I completely agree. Even if our parents 00:08:21.470 --> 00:08:23.269 don't understand why those things are happening, 00:08:23.430 --> 00:08:26.290 they are an absolute expert in their child's 00:08:26.290 --> 00:08:28.370 sensory needs. And it is crucial for the schools 00:08:28.370 --> 00:08:30.829 to involve and believe the parents when they're 00:08:30.829 --> 00:08:33.970 saying they're having meltdowns at home. So not 00:08:33.970 --> 00:08:35.409 just assume that it's something that's happening 00:08:35.409 --> 00:08:37.690 in the home. And I see and hear that so often. 00:08:37.710 --> 00:08:39.710 I don't know if you do as well. But for schools 00:08:39.710 --> 00:08:42.210 to believe the parents that maybe it's something 00:08:42.210 --> 00:08:45.159 that is happening at school too. actually they're 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:47.559 holding it together all day and then crashing 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:50.019 at our home for whatever reason is that something 00:08:50.019 --> 00:08:52.960 that you experience too? I see that all the time 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:54.799 and I'm actually I was going to talk about that 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:56.860 today anyway but it's something we hear all the 00:08:56.860 --> 00:08:59.740 time where parents are seeing this these huge 00:08:59.740 --> 00:09:02.240 meltdowns after school they're seeing the anxiety 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:05.279 on Sunday evening how they're actually much more 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:07.279 relaxed during the holidays when they don't have 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:10.419 those demands of school and what can be so damaging 00:09:10.419 --> 00:09:13.440 is when parents go to the school and say look 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:16.120 my child is having these meltdowns at home I 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:17.639 wonder if there's something happening in the 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:19.519 school day if there's ways that we can support 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:22.220 them and school can be so quick to say well we 00:09:22.220 --> 00:09:24.679 don't see that here and it must be it must be 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:27.139 a problem at home and I think what that does 00:09:27.139 --> 00:09:30.779 is when you don't believe a parent you're invalidating 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:33.159 their experiences and you're kind of pushing 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:36.860 that blame back on home when we know that the 00:09:36.860 --> 00:09:40.320 nervous system can often It's not just one trigger 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:42.580 that leads to the meltdown. It's usually an accumulation 00:09:42.580 --> 00:09:45.039 of triggers throughout the day. So it might be 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.139 the school bell in the morning and then not understanding 00:09:48.139 --> 00:09:50.899 maths and then not liking lunch and then not 00:09:50.899 --> 00:09:53.220 being picked to play with on the playground. 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:55.740 And then they're holding it all together. They're 00:09:55.740 --> 00:09:57.919 not letting those emotions out because they've 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.080 learned to mask from a very young age because 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.700 children are really smart and they learn from 00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:04.740 a very young age what behavior is acceptable 00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:09.809 and what isn't. When we see those masking behaviors 00:10:09.809 --> 00:10:12.350 where they look like they're coping and to the 00:10:12.350 --> 00:10:15.250 untrained eye, that's what it looks like. You 00:10:15.250 --> 00:10:16.850 know, they look like they're thriving in school, 00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:19.210 they're doing well academically. And it's typically 00:10:19.210 --> 00:10:21.629 those high masking, like people pleaser type 00:10:21.629 --> 00:10:26.210 presentation that gets missed often. girls get 00:10:26.210 --> 00:10:28.389 missed because of that because they're so socially 00:10:28.389 --> 00:10:31.330 aware and they're so aware of how others perceive 00:10:31.330 --> 00:10:34.330 them that they will learn how to mask really 00:10:34.330 --> 00:10:36.690 well and maybe more expectations on girls to 00:10:36.690 --> 00:10:39.909 be still and solitary play and play in a certain 00:10:39.909 --> 00:10:42.649 way whereas boys it's maybe more accepted for 00:10:42.649 --> 00:10:44.730 for them to be rough and tumbling for longer 00:10:44.730 --> 00:10:48.129 maybe unfairly too right absolutely and i think 00:10:48.129 --> 00:10:51.409 even within the diagnostic process of diagnosing 00:10:51.409 --> 00:10:54.509 autism and adhd girls so often get missed because 00:10:54.509 --> 00:10:57.100 they don't fit that textbook presentation of 00:10:57.100 --> 00:11:00.200 how autism looks and we know that autism doesn't 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:03.059 have a look but unfortunately there is still 00:11:03.059 --> 00:11:06.320 that perception of that kind of the Sheldon Cooper 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:10.820 type of autism that that that's how people think 00:11:10.820 --> 00:11:13.879 about it and I see it so often where girls get 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:15.940 missed and then they end up in school burnout 00:11:15.940 --> 00:11:18.019 and the school is so confused because they're 00:11:18.019 --> 00:11:20.120 like well they were amazing when they were in 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:22.100 school kind of thing like they were coping they 00:11:22.100 --> 00:11:24.399 were in lessons they seem to have friends and 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:26.039 I think that's the other thing about school is 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:29.659 that friendships can look like they're working 00:11:29.659 --> 00:11:32.820 from the outside because often the teacher is 00:11:32.820 --> 00:11:34.500 trying to keep an eye on the playground with 00:11:34.500 --> 00:11:36.960 like multiple groups playing in different ways 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:40.360 and I think autistic girls can have a very good 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:42.799 way of masking and looking like they're fitting 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:45.740 in but actually what they're doing is just copying 00:11:45.740 --> 00:11:49.090 a lot of what they've learned from the other 00:11:49.090 --> 00:11:51.429 girls in their class. And that makes them incredibly 00:11:51.429 --> 00:11:53.490 vulnerable, doesn't it? When they're coming into 00:11:53.490 --> 00:11:55.590 their teenagehood and they're still copying those 00:11:55.590 --> 00:11:57.350 behaviors, they can be incredibly vulnerable 00:11:57.350 --> 00:12:01.769 to be very susceptible to quite dangerous or 00:12:01.769 --> 00:12:04.429 damaging behaviors because they're not able to 00:12:04.429 --> 00:12:06.490 maybe be as autonomous or think about what's 00:12:06.490 --> 00:12:09.110 safe in their body. And we don't want our girls 00:12:09.110 --> 00:12:11.929 to be in that position. No, and I think it's 00:12:11.929 --> 00:12:14.309 also what it does to their self -esteem and their 00:12:14.309 --> 00:12:16.840 sense of... self -confidence and how they see 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:18.679 themselves and how they perceive themselves. 00:12:18.860 --> 00:12:21.700 Because when we don't allow children to be the 00:12:21.700 --> 00:12:24.159 authentic version of themselves and they're constantly 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:27.340 having to put on that mask, that has a real cost 00:12:27.340 --> 00:12:30.000 to their mental health in the long term. And 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.620 we know it from listening to so much lived experience 00:12:32.620 --> 00:12:35.399 and autistic adults who have come out and, you 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:38.059 know, say how traumatic school was for them. 00:12:38.139 --> 00:12:40.299 And I think it's really important that we take 00:12:40.299 --> 00:12:43.440 that into account. that lived experience into 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.019 account because I think the research is still 00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:49.279 very much behind in understanding how traumatic 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.159 school can be for these kids. And because of 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:55.639 all the social expectations, the one -way approach 00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:58.059 of learning, you know, very much sitting at a 00:12:58.059 --> 00:13:01.159 desk, quiet, following instructions, not doing 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:04.519 anything out of order. I think that that way 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:07.899 of learning is not how most people learn. So 00:13:07.899 --> 00:13:10.769 unfortunately... I think the school system lets 00:13:10.769 --> 00:13:13.710 a lot of children down because they're not encouraging 00:13:13.710 --> 00:13:15.669 different ways of learning, different ways of 00:13:15.669 --> 00:13:17.750 being, different ways of playing, you know, and 00:13:17.750 --> 00:13:21.129 going back to parents not being believed. I think 00:13:21.129 --> 00:13:24.330 that that validation piece is so important, like 00:13:24.330 --> 00:13:27.929 telling a school what you're seeing at home, 00:13:27.990 --> 00:13:30.809 how you feel it might be connected to school 00:13:30.809 --> 00:13:34.679 and then not being believed. It just means that 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.519 parents have to fight relentlessly hard to get 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:40.059 any support in place for their child. And what 00:13:40.059 --> 00:13:42.700 I see so often is that children don't get the 00:13:42.700 --> 00:13:45.580 support until they reach burnout. And that's 00:13:45.580 --> 00:13:48.759 just not a proactive way of supporting our most 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.360 vulnerable children. It just creates more pressure 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:55.480 on the system long term, which I don't know if 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:58.039 they... They realize that because they're not 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:00.179 seeming to kind of catch up with it and do anything 00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:03.340 about it. But really, if we were proactive with 00:14:03.340 --> 00:14:06.539 how we support kids, then we wouldn't have all 00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:10.129 of these other issues like school burnout. hundreds 00:14:10.129 --> 00:14:12.149 and thousands of kids who can't attend school 00:14:12.149 --> 00:14:14.750 because it's been so traumatic for them who then 00:14:14.750 --> 00:14:17.629 end up in mental health services who end up unemployed 00:14:17.629 --> 00:14:20.889 all of these things because of how school has 00:14:20.889 --> 00:14:22.649 let them down and didn't meet their needs i think 00:14:22.649 --> 00:14:25.830 unfortunately the individuals are aware of the 00:14:25.830 --> 00:14:29.250 problem like teachers and senkos are aware of 00:14:29.250 --> 00:14:33.029 the need in their in their school it comes down 00:14:33.029 --> 00:14:35.990 to lack of training lack of budget lack of resources 00:14:35.990 --> 00:14:41.309 lack of spaces lack of people you know huge yeah 00:14:41.309 --> 00:14:45.250 so what I mean when I say that it has it we haven't 00:14:45.250 --> 00:14:47.309 caught up it's at a government level you know 00:14:47.309 --> 00:14:50.250 we haven't we haven't looked at adapting the 00:14:50.250 --> 00:14:52.289 environment in the right way we haven't looked 00:14:52.289 --> 00:14:54.269 at adapting the curriculum like we are still 00:14:54.269 --> 00:14:57.190 expecting kids to do exams from such a young 00:14:57.190 --> 00:15:00.110 age to take away play from such a young age like 00:15:00.110 --> 00:15:03.269 we're putting more and more pressure on these 00:15:03.269 --> 00:15:06.659 kids every single year and you know the government 00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:09.519 aren't doing anything when from a nervous system 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:12.000 point of view what we understand about the nervous 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.000 system and about neurodivergence I think that 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.379 yeah it's all of the teachers on the ground are 00:15:18.379 --> 00:15:20.960 seeing it and it's it's a really difficult time 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.559 to be a teacher now because as well as believing 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:27.299 the parents is there anything else that teachers 00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:29.919 could either be looking out for or putting into 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:33.159 their classroom that could support this within 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:36.419 their control Yeah, so I think there's a lot 00:15:36.419 --> 00:15:38.600 of things that are within the control of the 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:40.379 classroom. You know, there's so many things out 00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:42.419 of our control, like the size of the class, the 00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:44.940 needs of the class, the curriculum, all of these 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:47.480 things. But things that are within our control 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.559 are how we speak to children and how we speak 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:53.080 about children, how they hear us speaking about 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.779 them. I think our language is really important 00:15:55.779 --> 00:15:58.580 when it comes to supporting these children because 00:15:59.149 --> 00:16:01.870 Often what I'm hearing from the autistic kids 00:16:01.870 --> 00:16:04.370 that I work with, from the ADHD kids that I work 00:16:04.370 --> 00:16:07.210 with, is that they're constantly being labeled, 00:16:07.289 --> 00:16:11.570 whether it's disruptive or bold or naughty or 00:16:11.570 --> 00:16:16.070 distracting. And all of these labels over time 00:16:16.070 --> 00:16:18.990 chip away at that child's sense of self and their 00:16:18.990 --> 00:16:21.669 self -esteem. And I think there are so many ways 00:16:21.669 --> 00:16:24.950 that we can... connect with children without, 00:16:25.049 --> 00:16:28.509 you know, putting these huge expectations on 00:16:28.509 --> 00:16:32.490 them that can make them feel much better about 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:34.549 themselves and that can affirm them and validate 00:16:34.549 --> 00:16:37.509 them rather than do the opposite. And there's 00:16:37.509 --> 00:16:39.070 so many things that we can do in the classroom. 00:16:39.169 --> 00:16:41.769 I mean, I'm always advocating for unrestricted 00:16:41.769 --> 00:16:44.409 access to sensory tools, you know, having access 00:16:44.409 --> 00:16:47.190 to fidgets, to flexible seating that the child 00:16:47.190 --> 00:16:50.950 can use, yoga balls, beanbags, all of these things 00:16:50.950 --> 00:16:53.679 that we know. provide the child with that level 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.200 of sensory input and movement that they need 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:59.480 I think also reducing the shame around needing 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.220 accommodations and so often it feels like the 00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:07.339 goal for The teacher might be to eventually move 00:17:07.339 --> 00:17:09.700 away from using the accommodations or from needing 00:17:09.700 --> 00:17:12.660 the accommodations, but actually those are access 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:16.140 tools. And so often I see it where we start putting 00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:18.359 things in place and the child starts thriving 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.740 and responding really well to the support. People 00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:24.119 are like, oh, well, they're doing really well. 00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:26.960 We can take these things away. And then you have 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.819 like an even worse crash after that because they 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:32.779 got used to having the support. It was really 00:17:32.779 --> 00:17:36.539 working for them. And then it's taken away. And 00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:38.660 it happens all the time as well with, you know, 00:17:38.660 --> 00:17:40.799 a teaching assistant will be assigned to a child 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:43.440 who needs it. They start doing really well because 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.900 they've got the teaching assistant and then the 00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:48.339 hours are reduced and it's kind of taken away. 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.380 And then the fallout of that is just really difficult 00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:55.859 to manage. But I really think the best thing 00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:59.240 that we can do that doesn't require much training 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.799 or funding, it's just about prioritizing connection 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:06.740 and felt safety before placing any demands. And 00:18:06.740 --> 00:18:08.960 we know that there are so many children with 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.819 PDA profile now who are really struggling in 00:18:11.819 --> 00:18:14.359 school because of all of those demands, all of 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:17.059 the kind of... adult -led learning demands, the 00:18:17.059 --> 00:18:20.359 social demands, also just the internal demands 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:23.180 of like every time they need the toilet or every 00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:25.220 time they feel too hot or every time they feel 00:18:25.220 --> 00:18:29.380 pain, anything that feels like a demand. We know 00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:32.019 that the school environment is so challenging 00:18:32.019 --> 00:18:35.339 for children with PDA and so often they end up 00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:37.859 having to come out of school because of how traumatic 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:41.299 the environment is for them. So I always say 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:43.880 I think connection is something that's free. 00:18:44.269 --> 00:18:47.490 how we speak to kids is something that, you know, 00:18:47.490 --> 00:18:50.950 it might not feel like those small throwaway 00:18:50.950 --> 00:18:53.029 comments like, oh, you were able to do it yesterday. 00:18:53.150 --> 00:18:56.880 Why can't you do it today? Don't. It might feel 00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.000 like that's not doing anything to that child. 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:01.539 But over time, when they're constantly being 00:19:01.539 --> 00:19:03.619 told that, when they're constantly being told, 00:19:03.619 --> 00:19:05.720 if you don't finish it, you'll have to stay in 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:07.759 at lunch, or I'm going to take away your playtime, 00:19:07.900 --> 00:19:11.200 or I'm going to give you five stars on your reward 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.460 chart if you do it. And all of these kind of 00:19:13.460 --> 00:19:15.960 like compliance -based approaches, what that 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.539 does to a child long term is it just makes them 00:19:19.539 --> 00:19:22.519 feel like they're not good enough. And so I think 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:24.900 when we can take the time to truly connect with 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:26.960 a child, you know, incorporate their interests, 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.539 ask them about what they like, play with them. 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.579 You know, I think what that does to a child is 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.500 it places a light inside of them and it tells 00:19:35.500 --> 00:19:37.980 them that their authentic way of being is enough. 00:19:38.829 --> 00:19:40.970 And that they don't have to kind of put that 00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:43.869 mask on. And it's okay if they aren't able to 00:19:43.869 --> 00:19:45.769 do something that they were able to do yesterday, 00:19:45.789 --> 00:19:48.730 because we understand that capacity fluctuates 00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:50.970 across the day, across the week, across the month. 00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:53.509 For so many reasons, it fluctuates because of 00:19:53.509 --> 00:19:55.910 the sensory demands, it fluctuates because of 00:19:55.910 --> 00:19:58.049 energy levels, because of tiredness, illness, 00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:00.549 so many things. If something's going on at home, 00:20:00.630 --> 00:20:02.809 if there's been a change to their routine, if 00:20:02.809 --> 00:20:05.170 they're moving house, all of these things have 00:20:05.170 --> 00:20:08.680 such a huge impact on a child's capacity. capacity 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:11.940 to show up and I think as adults we're so good 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:14.440 at giving each other grace like you know if our 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:16.680 friend tells us I know we were meant to meet 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:18.519 at the weekend but I actually have a lot on and 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:21.059 I can't do it can we postpone we're always so 00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:23.660 you know we're happy to do that whereas when 00:20:23.660 --> 00:20:27.039 it's a child We just expect them to be able to 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:30.220 show up every single day with the same capacity 00:20:30.220 --> 00:20:33.339 and with the same ability to kind of produce 00:20:33.339 --> 00:20:36.160 and be productive at that level. And it's just 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.880 not how the nervous system works. And I often 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.119 think that we put so much more pressure on children 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.779 than we do. on adults because as adults we do 00:20:45.779 --> 00:20:48.599 have the ability to say in work oh actually I'm 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:50.279 really busy at the minute I can't take on another 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:53.000 project or can we push that meeting to next week 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.519 but if it's a child who needs to get their homework 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:58.400 done and it's not done because of so many reasons 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.319 then they don't get that same grace and I think 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:04.619 that's really really sad that we just place these 00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:08.079 things. And it almost gets harder and worse for 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:10.319 the learners the further up the school they get. 00:21:10.420 --> 00:21:12.259 I feel like when you're talking about connection 00:21:12.259 --> 00:21:14.200 and playing individualized approaches, I feel 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:17.819 like early years do that on the whole quite well. 00:21:17.900 --> 00:21:21.180 And then every year it seems to get less and 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:22.940 less. And then when you're looking at year four, 00:21:23.019 --> 00:21:26.500 five and six, there's actually very little individualization 00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:30.539 and accommodation for the most part. Is there 00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:33.140 anything that Key Stage 2 teachers could be doing 00:21:33.140 --> 00:21:36.869 to kind of improve? prove that a little bit yeah 00:21:36.869 --> 00:21:40.650 I think like what I said just having movement 00:21:40.650 --> 00:21:44.170 having play having sensory tools just weaved 00:21:44.170 --> 00:21:46.470 into the learning environment I see so often 00:21:46.470 --> 00:21:48.990 that you know children are being told to go to 00:21:48.990 --> 00:21:50.970 the sensory room to regulate or you know they're 00:21:50.970 --> 00:21:53.150 told that they'll get play at break time when 00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:56.130 they can go outside but actually when we're pushing 00:21:56.130 --> 00:21:58.490 regulation outside of the classroom rather than 00:21:58.490 --> 00:22:01.480 looking at it within the classroom. We're missing 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:04.279 the whole point really because so much of the 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:06.700 child's day is spent in the classroom. Like if 00:22:06.700 --> 00:22:09.140 you look at the six or seven hour school day, 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:13.220 they're only on the playground for such a small 00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:16.980 percentage of that. So really when we talk about 00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:20.180 regulation and kind of creating these neuroaffirming 00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:23.019 classrooms, we're talking about things that can 00:22:23.019 --> 00:22:25.680 be done within the classroom and not just seeing 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:28.700 regulation as an extra or you'll get your movement 00:22:28.700 --> 00:22:30.920 break. after you finish your learning or you'll 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.700 get your sensory tool as a reward. We need to 00:22:34.700 --> 00:22:37.799 be looking at weaving these supports into the 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:40.579 learning. It needs to be part of learning rather 00:22:40.579 --> 00:22:43.819 than seen as an extra or as a reward. And I think 00:22:43.819 --> 00:22:46.480 that's where sometimes schools get it wrong because 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:49.119 they are using sensory and movement as a reward 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:51.900 rather than an access tool. And that's really 00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:55.779 dangerous and really damaging because it's, you 00:22:55.779 --> 00:22:59.200 know, if we're just... giving the child the tool 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:01.819 after they've done what we've asked them to do 00:23:01.819 --> 00:23:04.259 and, you know, they've complied with what we've 00:23:04.259 --> 00:23:07.299 asked them to do, then that's not access and 00:23:07.299 --> 00:23:10.759 that's not inclusion. And I think as well, I 00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:12.380 mean, there's been a huge amount of talk about 00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:14.759 it now with the white paper and, you know, true 00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:17.940 inclusion, what it looks like and, you know, 00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:20.799 that they're pushing for like putting every child 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:23.619 in a mainstream school. And kind of expecting 00:23:23.619 --> 00:23:27.180 them to cope when actually inclusion is about 00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:31.160 meaningful participation, emotional safety, belonging 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:35.059 and access. And if a student is physically present 00:23:35.059 --> 00:23:38.000 in a mainstream classroom, but constantly overwhelmed 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.220 because of the noise, because of the demands, 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:42.819 it's leading to dysregulation or they're just 00:23:42.819 --> 00:23:46.420 masking to get through the day. That's not inclusion. 00:23:48.679 --> 00:23:51.640 Inclusion happens when all of these supports 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:55.720 are happening within the classroom with no expectation. 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:58.599 You know, they don't have to meet an expectation 00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:01.319 to get their sensory tool or to get the flexible 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:05.059 seating or to have lower demands or to have executive 00:24:05.059 --> 00:24:07.380 functioning strategies to support them in their 00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:11.059 learning. Access to AAC or assistive technology, 00:24:11.420 --> 00:24:13.500 you know, those aren't things that they should. 00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:15.640 they should work for you know that should just 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.200 be automatically included and I think what I 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:21.160 see so often is how accommodations are framed 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:25.539 and how that impacts how children use them because 00:24:25.539 --> 00:24:29.259 often I'll see teachers almost like they don't 00:24:29.259 --> 00:24:31.099 do it on purpose, obviously, but like, you know, 00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.299 singling out the child that needs ear defenders 00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:35.460 and they'll they'll say in front of the whole 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:37.420 class, just put your ear defenders on now or 00:24:37.420 --> 00:24:40.019 whatever it is. And of course, that child is 00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:42.019 not going to want to use them now because you've 00:24:42.019 --> 00:24:43.740 just singled them out. You've made them look 00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:46.140 different. They already know they're different. 00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:48.619 And now you've just made it more obvious and 00:24:48.619 --> 00:24:50.660 brought attention to it. And we know what other 00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:53.380 kids can be like when they hear when they hear 00:24:53.380 --> 00:24:56.279 an adult saying that child needs their ear. defenders. 00:24:56.339 --> 00:24:59.180 They say that child is different. That child 00:24:59.180 --> 00:25:01.900 doesn't deserve to be included with everyone 00:25:01.900 --> 00:25:04.559 else. I know that's not what the teacher is thinking. 00:25:04.700 --> 00:25:08.000 Of course, it's not. But that's how our neurodivergent 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.400 children perceive it. And that's why we have 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:13.660 so many kids, particularly girls, particularly 00:25:13.660 --> 00:25:17.700 teenagers, and I guess anything from year two 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:21.140 up that no longer want to use their accommodations 00:25:21.140 --> 00:25:24.150 that they know help, but that makes them look 00:25:24.150 --> 00:25:27.809 different so from a young age I would love from 00:25:27.809 --> 00:25:30.650 reception that if teachers were just framing 00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:32.910 accommodations as something that's helpful for 00:25:32.910 --> 00:25:35.470 all of us you know not telling a particular child 00:25:35.470 --> 00:25:37.369 to go and get their fidget tool or to go and 00:25:37.369 --> 00:25:39.490 get their yoga ball to sit on that we're going 00:25:39.490 --> 00:25:42.589 to say something like okay class like we're going 00:25:42.589 --> 00:25:45.480 to start a learning task let's everyone get comfortable 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.059 in whatever way that looks like for us some people 00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:50.039 might need ear defenders some people might need 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:51.900 a fidget tool some people might want to sit on 00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:54.079 the carpet instead of at their desk whatever 00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:56.200 it is that you're never kind of like signaling 00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:59.359 kids out because it becomes so much harder to 00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:03.500 reverse that mindset the older kids get and that 00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:06.099 comes along with also if a child that you don't 00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:08.559 think needs something chooses something like 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.980 that believe them maybe they need that today 00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:14.200 unless proven otherwise you know unless you know 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.500 give them a chance to show you that they they 00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:19.119 might need that today we all have days where 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.500 we things are a bit too loud or bright or or 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:24.400 overwhelming we don't know what's happening at 00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:27.000 home all the time you know I think when you make 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.619 it accessible to everyone the kids that need 00:26:29.619 --> 00:26:32.240 it will use it and it will work and the kids 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.579 who don't might give it a try and it will be 00:26:34.579 --> 00:26:37.079 novel and nice for a few days but if they don't 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:39.279 need it they're not going to keep seeking it 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:43.519 and I think we we have such little faith in children 00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:46.180 sometimes because I think adults will be so quick 00:26:46.180 --> 00:26:48.420 to say like I've had schools that I've worked 00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:50.599 in and they'll say oh we can't give this child 00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:52.519 a yoga ball to sit on because then every child 00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:55.640 will be the yoga ball and actually it's the adults 00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:58.579 that create those mindsets because I worked in 00:26:58.579 --> 00:27:01.720 reception classrooms with an autistic boy and 00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:04.599 I introduced a yoga ball and All of the children 00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:07.039 were so accepting because they knew that this 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:09.599 kid needed a yoga ball because prior to the yoga 00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:12.779 ball, he was crawling under the desk, crying 00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:15.339 for most of the day, not engaging. And once he 00:27:15.339 --> 00:27:17.400 had the yoga ball, he was sitting and bouncing 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:19.799 and engaging in the lesson. And the kids were 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:21.720 like, well, he needs the yoga ball. You know, 00:27:21.740 --> 00:27:24.559 like they understood. So I think adults can be 00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:28.460 quick to... to maybe place their own assumptions 00:27:28.460 --> 00:27:31.920 onto a child. But actually children can be very 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:34.920 accepting if we introduce these concepts from 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.259 a young age. Yeah, it's the difference between 00:27:37.259 --> 00:27:40.900 equality and equity, right? Inclusion isn't that 00:27:40.900 --> 00:27:43.200 everybody has the same. That isn't what we're 00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:45.400 saying. We're not saying that everybody needs 00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:46.740 a fidget. We're not saying that everybody needs 00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:48.480 ear defenders. They just have to be accessible. 00:27:48.740 --> 00:27:50.880 That's what we're saying. And to believe them, 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:52.539 I suppose, like we were saying at the beginning, 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:54.779 to believe the parents when they're saying that 00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:56.460 their child is struggling. We also need to believe 00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:59.140 the child when they're either showing us or telling 00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:00.759 us, because they can't always tell us, but sometimes 00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.759 it's obvious their body is telling us that they 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.130 need an accommodation. that we believe them that's 00:28:07.130 --> 00:28:09.569 ultimately what inclusion and neuroaffirming 00:28:09.569 --> 00:28:12.690 practice is right absolutely i think that feeling 00:28:12.690 --> 00:28:14.990 of being believed i think even as adults you 00:28:14.990 --> 00:28:17.690 know how you feel when somebody validates you 00:28:17.690 --> 00:28:20.210 and when somebody shuts you down and how the 00:28:20.210 --> 00:28:23.579 two feelings are so different. I think something 00:28:23.579 --> 00:28:26.039 else that I really want to mention when it comes 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.819 to inclusion is I think school policies have 00:28:30.819 --> 00:28:33.960 such a huge part to play as well. I know that 00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.099 this is something that's out of the control of 00:28:36.099 --> 00:28:37.900 the classroom teacher, but it's something that 00:28:37.900 --> 00:28:40.839 I think we all need to be advocating for because 00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:43.940 unfortunately... School policies are unfairly 00:28:43.940 --> 00:28:46.400 discriminating against our most vulnerable students, 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.680 our neurodivergent students, our black and brown 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:50.759 students, our students who've experienced trauma, 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:54.200 our students living in poverty. And for me, I 00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:56.859 think a neuro -inclusive environment has to include 00:28:56.859 --> 00:29:00.240 intersectionality because we know that these 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:02.900 are the students who are getting excluded because 00:29:02.900 --> 00:29:04.599 of their behavior, who are getting punished, 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:07.119 who are told that they're not good enough. And 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.559 I think that is such an important part of... 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:14.460 inclusivity as well and yeah I think policies 00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:18.859 can really hold children back because it really 00:29:18.859 --> 00:29:21.519 I think these children that often have these 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:24.440 nervous system response which looks like challenging 00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:28.119 behavior to the kind of untrained eye and then 00:29:28.539 --> 00:29:31.519 What happens is this child gets excluded or they 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:34.079 get suspended for a few days and then they're 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:37.079 expected to come back into the exact same environment. 00:29:37.579 --> 00:29:40.240 Right. And they're expected to have learned their 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.940 lesson. But actually, if we're not adapting the 00:29:42.940 --> 00:29:45.319 environment, if we're not making changes to how 00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:47.700 we speak to children, how we speak about children, 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:49.579 if we're just expecting them to come back to 00:29:49.579 --> 00:29:52.700 that kind of really sensory rich, overwhelming 00:29:52.700 --> 00:29:55.019 environment, then we're just going to get into 00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:58.690 a cycle of like this child constantly. getting 00:29:58.690 --> 00:30:01.710 distressed and then getting excluded or learning 00:30:01.710 --> 00:30:04.890 how to mask, but then having those meltdowns 00:30:04.890 --> 00:30:07.549 at home. Absolutely. There needs to be something 00:30:07.549 --> 00:30:10.329 in the policy that makes the expectations individualized 00:30:10.329 --> 00:30:13.309 because what looks like regulation for one child 00:30:13.309 --> 00:30:16.369 can look like very destructive behavior for another. 00:30:16.529 --> 00:30:19.269 The expectations need to be equitable as well. 00:30:19.309 --> 00:30:21.950 And maybe it is just the wording in the policy. 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.180 of what that looks like for each individual and 00:30:25.180 --> 00:30:27.119 what the expectations are for each individual 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:30.400 not remembering your pen could be perfectly acceptable 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:34.720 rule for one child but completely inappropriate 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:39.519 for another it shouldn't be as um black and white 00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:43.259 as that there should be a label to be clear but 00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:45.880 but their flexibility in that for that individualized 00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.279 approach so that then teachers and senkos and 00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:51.740 the senior leadership team can make those reasonable 00:30:51.740 --> 00:30:55.819 adjustments to support the family to support 00:30:55.819 --> 00:30:58.859 the learner to thrive and learn in school rather 00:30:58.859 --> 00:31:01.700 than to be physically excluded from the space 00:31:01.700 --> 00:31:04.960 often yeah and i would i would just love if there 00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:07.599 was a better understanding around you know when 00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:10.859 we do see those big behaviors whether it's throwing 00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:13.519 or kicking or screaming or whatever it is the 00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:17.559 meltdowns a child This is a child who's been 00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:20.740 holding it together all day. A child who's been 00:31:20.740 --> 00:31:23.400 managing sensory demands, learning expectations, 00:31:23.980 --> 00:31:26.880 social expectations, rigid compliance -based 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:31.039 rules. They're not choosing to react like that, 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:34.019 you know? And I think so often I hear the phrase 00:31:34.019 --> 00:31:36.500 as well, like they went from zero to 100. And 00:31:36.500 --> 00:31:38.859 actually when we look at the day as a whole within 00:31:38.859 --> 00:31:41.640 context of their neurotype, within their context 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.099 of their sensory processing needs, and you look 00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:46.779 at what they've... managed within the school 00:31:46.779 --> 00:31:50.599 day within the week it's not like it it makes 00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:52.920 so much sense from a nervous system lens why 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.359 they're having this distress this level of distress 00:31:56.359 --> 00:31:59.619 so I think what what I what I really advocate 00:31:59.619 --> 00:32:02.839 for is rather than the big moments of regulating 00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:04.640 children like sending them to the playground 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.539 or to the sensory room that we're actually having 00:32:07.539 --> 00:32:09.980 these micro moments of regulation throughout 00:32:09.980 --> 00:32:12.420 the day within the classroom where the child 00:32:12.420 --> 00:32:14.559 spends most of their day, because that's often 00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:17.720 far more beneficial than one visit to the sensory 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:20.839 room. So being proactive with the use of our 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:23.440 strategies and not waiting until they're already 00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:26.759 dysregulated because. I think so often I see 00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:29.059 goals that are written and it's like the child, 00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:32.960 when dysregulated, will choose a regulation tool 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:35.880 themselves independently. And it's like, well, 00:32:35.940 --> 00:32:39.160 no, their thinking brain has gone offline. Like 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:41.640 logic is not going to work. Reason is not going 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.779 to work. They're not able to choose a tool to 00:32:44.779 --> 00:32:46.519 regulate themselves in that moment. They need 00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:49.420 co -regulation with an adult who can attune to 00:32:49.420 --> 00:32:51.880 their needs, who can validate their emotions, 00:32:51.980 --> 00:32:54.460 who can sit with them in the feelings and not... 00:32:54.670 --> 00:32:57.710 expect for it to end straight away because they've 00:32:57.710 --> 00:33:00.130 asked them to go and take a deep breath like 00:33:00.130 --> 00:33:02.750 when a child is throwing a table they're not 00:33:02.750 --> 00:33:04.849 they're not going to be able to take a deep breath 00:33:04.849 --> 00:33:07.990 and regulate because it hasn't whatever happened 00:33:07.990 --> 00:33:09.970 before they threw the table is not the reason 00:33:09.970 --> 00:33:13.150 they're dysregulated it's multiple triggers throughout 00:33:13.150 --> 00:33:15.369 the day and multiple sensory stressors throughout 00:33:15.369 --> 00:33:18.210 the day that has led to that moment with no buffer 00:33:18.210 --> 00:33:21.450 time to kind of let them naturally regulate so 00:33:22.109 --> 00:33:24.549 I just think those micro moments of regulation 00:33:24.549 --> 00:33:27.130 within the classroom are so important and not 00:33:27.130 --> 00:33:29.130 waiting until we're seeing the big displays. 00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:32.089 And you absolutely can timetable those in. Actually, 00:33:32.130 --> 00:33:35.289 sometimes there needs to be more than what we 00:33:35.289 --> 00:33:37.349 could ever timetable in. It's about reading what 00:33:37.349 --> 00:33:39.410 those individual learners need in that moment 00:33:39.410 --> 00:33:42.730 too, isn't it? It's both. Yeah, and I think, 00:33:42.730 --> 00:33:45.069 you know, whole school movement breaks are so... 00:33:45.450 --> 00:33:48.150 helpful for so many kids you know for our neurotypical 00:33:48.150 --> 00:33:50.349 kids they work wonders because they get this 00:33:50.349 --> 00:33:52.250 burst of movement and then they're ready to kind 00:33:52.250 --> 00:33:54.250 of focus and engage in their learning however 00:33:54.250 --> 00:33:57.369 for for our neurodivergent kids particularly 00:33:57.369 --> 00:34:01.650 our PDAers and so those who have this persistent 00:34:01.650 --> 00:34:05.029 drive for autonomy if they're being told when 00:34:05.029 --> 00:34:06.890 to have their movement break and what it should 00:34:06.890 --> 00:34:08.889 look like because usually a whole class movement 00:34:08.889 --> 00:34:11.909 break will be led by the teacher it will be shown 00:34:11.909 --> 00:34:14.900 what they should do for a PDAer that's not going 00:34:14.900 --> 00:34:16.880 to be regulating that's actually going to be 00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:20.119 a threat to their nervous system and so I think 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.699 whole school movement breaks should be in every 00:34:22.699 --> 00:34:24.679 school timetable and should be something that 00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:27.940 we are incorporating but I think for our neurodivergent 00:34:27.940 --> 00:34:30.739 kids they need a different approach they might 00:34:30.739 --> 00:34:34.260 need lots of movement throughout the day in a 00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:36.800 way that they can kind of have autonomy over 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:39.500 that and decide what it feels like in their body 00:34:39.500 --> 00:34:41.400 when they need to move because that's another 00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:43.920 thing that I think in school sometimes when it 00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:47.139 comes to our interoceptive awareness in school 00:34:47.139 --> 00:34:49.579 children are told when they should use the toilet 00:34:49.579 --> 00:34:51.639 when they should be hungry when they can have 00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:53.739 a drink of their water when they can move their 00:34:53.739 --> 00:34:56.559 bodies and actually what that does is it tells 00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:59.039 a child not to trust their own body like it tells 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:02.030 them I have this signal that tells me I need 00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:04.250 the toilet, but the teacher tells me I should 00:35:04.250 --> 00:35:06.989 have gone at break time. But my bladder feels 00:35:06.989 --> 00:35:09.909 the pressure of needing the toilet. And it's 00:35:09.909 --> 00:35:12.789 kind of like telling children that adults know 00:35:12.789 --> 00:35:14.610 their bodies better than they do themselves. 00:35:14.809 --> 00:35:18.719 So I really try and encourage. building helping 00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.139 children build the awareness of when they need 00:35:21.139 --> 00:35:23.139 to move their bodies when they need the toilet 00:35:23.139 --> 00:35:25.400 when they need a drink do they need a crunchy 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:28.659 snack like can we be more flexible with allowing 00:35:28.659 --> 00:35:31.420 children to let us know when their body needs 00:35:31.420 --> 00:35:34.059 something and I know that's really tricky in 00:35:34.059 --> 00:35:36.340 a mainstream class because you've got 30 kids 00:35:36.340 --> 00:35:38.559 with different needs different interoceptive 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:41.530 systems and it It is really hard. But I do think 00:35:41.530 --> 00:35:43.329 for our neurodivergent kids, we need to make 00:35:43.329 --> 00:35:46.250 those accommodations. And I think as well, like 00:35:46.250 --> 00:35:49.550 whole school, whole class toilet breaks are really 00:35:49.550 --> 00:35:52.150 overwhelming for our neurodivergent kids because 00:35:52.150 --> 00:35:55.130 they're noisier, they're busy, there's more smells, 00:35:55.449 --> 00:35:58.550 there's more sounds. And actually, that might 00:35:58.550 --> 00:36:01.389 mean that they actually are physically unable 00:36:01.389 --> 00:36:04.070 to go because their body is experiencing a stress 00:36:04.070 --> 00:36:07.730 response. So I think every school timetable. 00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:11.059 needs to have certain things that are for, you 00:36:11.059 --> 00:36:13.539 know, the whole class, movement breaks. I also 00:36:13.539 --> 00:36:15.219 really think it's important to not just have 00:36:15.219 --> 00:36:17.739 movement breaks, but to have choice breaks. So 00:36:17.739 --> 00:36:20.679 I think, you know, most schools are offering 00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:22.719 movement breaks, which is amazing. All of our 00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:25.199 kids need more movement. But I think it's really 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:28.159 helpful to have choice breaks as well, where 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:31.340 children can maybe choose to do a more calming 00:36:31.340 --> 00:36:34.099 activity, something like a sand tray or Play 00:36:34.099 --> 00:36:37.500 -Doh or reading for pleasure or something where... 00:36:37.690 --> 00:36:40.190 They can just switch off from learning. It doesn't 00:36:40.190 --> 00:36:43.429 have to be big movement, but it's something else 00:36:43.429 --> 00:36:46.190 that really helps with their regulation. And 00:36:46.190 --> 00:36:48.409 so sometimes a child will need a break from learning 00:36:48.409 --> 00:36:50.989 to be creative rather than always needing to 00:36:50.989 --> 00:36:53.510 move. So I'd love to see more of that, seeing 00:36:53.510 --> 00:36:57.199 more choice breaks. And if they've got choices, 00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:58.699 as long as they're not already dysregulated, 00:36:58.699 --> 00:37:00.519 that could help with the PDAs as well, because 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:02.599 they're feeling some autonomy over listening 00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:04.659 to their body. What does my body need? And then 00:37:04.659 --> 00:37:06.980 making a choice. That sounds like a really wonderful 00:37:06.980 --> 00:37:09.480 thing. Yeah, exactly. And I think as well, like 00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:12.780 transitions are so hard for so many neurodivergent 00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:14.559 kids. And when we think about the school day, 00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:17.019 there's so many like micro transitions, like 00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:19.559 transitions are happening all the time. So there's 00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:22.079 the big ones like coming into school. That's 00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:25.199 a huge. difficult transition particularly for 00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:26.980 our neurodivergent kids because they're leaving 00:37:26.980 --> 00:37:29.920 their safe space with their safe people their 00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:33.699 parents and coming into a very different environment 00:37:33.699 --> 00:37:36.659 with different expectations with lots of people 00:37:36.659 --> 00:37:40.000 lots of noise lots of unpredictability and I 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:42.820 think what can be really helpful to support that 00:37:42.820 --> 00:37:45.619 transition is to have a bit of a soft start in 00:37:45.619 --> 00:37:48.619 the morning so time where a child can ease into 00:37:48.619 --> 00:37:51.989 the day and have support to transition from home 00:37:51.989 --> 00:37:55.610 to school. So it might look like low demand play 00:37:55.610 --> 00:37:58.309 opportunities for the first 15 to 20 minutes 00:37:58.309 --> 00:38:00.269 of the morning, you know, access to preferred 00:38:00.269 --> 00:38:03.409 books, sand trays, like I said, coloring, Lego, 00:38:03.530 --> 00:38:05.530 anything that's kind of like really nice and 00:38:05.530 --> 00:38:08.230 regulating that doesn't kind of upregulate the 00:38:08.230 --> 00:38:11.070 nervous system. just allows them to come in without 00:38:11.070 --> 00:38:14.510 immediately having expectations placed on them. 00:38:14.550 --> 00:38:16.889 I think that can be really helpful. But also 00:38:16.889 --> 00:38:19.449 thinking about the transitions within the school 00:38:19.449 --> 00:38:22.329 day, like just switching, constant attention 00:38:22.329 --> 00:38:25.610 switching between different lessons and how our 00:38:25.610 --> 00:38:28.809 neurodivergent learners will need more time to 00:38:28.809 --> 00:38:32.239 kind of process. ending one task and moving on 00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:34.699 to another because as we know particularly our 00:38:34.699 --> 00:38:37.519 autistic students most of them will have a monotropic 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:40.840 learning style where they like to deep dive into 00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:43.719 an area of interest for a prolonged period of 00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:46.619 time and it becomes quite hard to switch their 00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:50.460 attention from that task so can we look at maybe 00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:52.860 accommodating them by giving them more interest 00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:56.050 -led learning where there's less pressure in 00:38:56.050 --> 00:38:58.929 terms of time I think those time pressures particularly 00:38:58.929 --> 00:39:02.730 for PDAers is just a huge demand like if you 00:39:02.730 --> 00:39:05.329 have something and it it can be something that 00:39:05.329 --> 00:39:07.809 helps other students like having a visual timer 00:39:07.809 --> 00:39:11.329 or like a song that goes off when when they're 00:39:11.329 --> 00:39:13.750 meant to finish that can be really helpful for 00:39:13.750 --> 00:39:16.909 like the majority of the class but for for our 00:39:16.909 --> 00:39:20.050 children with PDA that just is a huge demand 00:39:20.050 --> 00:39:23.710 so yeah I think there's it's hard because There's 00:39:23.710 --> 00:39:26.369 so many different needs within the classroom, 00:39:26.550 --> 00:39:29.869 but I think there are things that we can do to 00:39:29.869 --> 00:39:32.909 support the majority of children and then have 00:39:32.909 --> 00:39:35.289 those specific accommodations for children who 00:39:35.289 --> 00:39:37.909 might need a little bit of extra support. I think 00:39:37.909 --> 00:39:39.909 that's a really great advice. It's often a question 00:39:39.909 --> 00:39:42.210 I get in my DMs is I know that what some children 00:39:42.210 --> 00:39:44.289 need, but the other children need the opposite. 00:39:44.510 --> 00:39:46.610 How do you manage that? And I think that's great 00:39:46.610 --> 00:39:49.809 advice to focus on the majority as far as the 00:39:49.809 --> 00:39:52.289 timetable structure goes, but then make those 00:39:52.289 --> 00:39:53.829 reasonable adjustments for those that that doesn't 00:39:53.829 --> 00:39:56.650 work for. That is the only answer, isn't it? 00:39:56.849 --> 00:39:58.590 Yeah, because I think we know that the majority 00:39:58.590 --> 00:40:02.570 of the children can cope with more. Even in special 00:40:02.570 --> 00:40:07.110 education. Yeah, exactly. So I think if we... 00:40:07.309 --> 00:40:09.530 If we know that they can cope with more, we can 00:40:09.530 --> 00:40:12.789 often leave them to do things on their own and 00:40:12.789 --> 00:40:15.070 give. the child that needs the support and a 00:40:15.070 --> 00:40:17.889 little bit of extra attention. It becomes incredibly 00:40:17.889 --> 00:40:19.949 hard if the child who does have high support 00:40:19.949 --> 00:40:23.369 needs doesn't have a teaching assistant who can 00:40:23.369 --> 00:40:26.650 kind of support with all of those. I mean, the 00:40:26.650 --> 00:40:28.829 teaching assistants, they're just amazing because 00:40:28.829 --> 00:40:30.489 they don't just support with learning. They're 00:40:30.489 --> 00:40:33.110 supporting the emotions, the regulation, the 00:40:33.110 --> 00:40:36.510 sensory needs. They're doing so much to keep 00:40:36.510 --> 00:40:39.510 that child regulated within the school day. But 00:40:39.510 --> 00:40:42.190 if you don't have that and you do have a class 00:40:42.190 --> 00:40:45.269 who... Yes, you know that they need a little 00:40:45.269 --> 00:40:46.670 bit of extra support. They all have different 00:40:46.670 --> 00:40:49.269 needs, but you have one particular child who 00:40:49.269 --> 00:40:52.329 has significantly higher needs. Sometimes it 00:40:52.329 --> 00:40:54.230 might be that you give the rest of the class 00:40:54.230 --> 00:40:56.289 an activity that you know that they can do without 00:40:56.289 --> 00:40:58.909 much support so that you can give that child 00:40:58.909 --> 00:41:01.710 a little bit of extra attention. But I mean, 00:41:01.750 --> 00:41:04.369 it's really hard in mainstream classrooms, which 00:41:04.369 --> 00:41:07.130 is why I think these like the things that we 00:41:07.130 --> 00:41:09.530 advocate for, the sensory tools, the flexible 00:41:09.530 --> 00:41:12.420 seating. adapting the demands. I love the use 00:41:12.420 --> 00:41:15.199 of strewing as well when we kind of put out lots 00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:17.300 of different activities and let the child be 00:41:17.300 --> 00:41:19.599 curious about what they want to engage in. That 00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:22.360 can be really helpful for PDAers as well so that 00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:24.440 it's not like they're not being told what they 00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:27.159 need to do at a particular time. They're just 00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:29.440 kind of allowed to explore what they're feeling 00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:32.280 in that moment. And I think having a classroom 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:35.380 where you are implementing all of these strategies, 00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:38.239 you'll quickly find that actually it works for 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:40.960 most children. Yeah, and it becomes a muscle 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:43.280 as a teacher. It can become overwhelming at first 00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:45.179 when you're putting all of this in play. But 00:41:45.179 --> 00:41:47.519 it does become a muscle that once you're using 00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:50.920 these methods, once you're individualizing sensory 00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:53.159 tool needs, once you're using different language, 00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:56.099 once you're... offering choices in a different 00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:58.659 way. If you focus on one of those, maybe like 00:41:58.659 --> 00:42:01.059 every fortnight, by the end of the year, you'll 00:42:01.059 --> 00:42:03.079 just naturally be doing it is something that 00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:07.699 I find is a muscle. Don't expect to not feel 00:42:07.699 --> 00:42:10.099 overwhelmed by this as the lead adult in a classroom 00:42:10.099 --> 00:42:12.800 right away, because you're making a big change 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.579 to your language, your whole classroom ethos. 00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:17.519 But that doesn't mean that it's not right and 00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:20.210 that you shouldn't. carry on you will get it 00:42:20.210 --> 00:42:22.750 will get easier you will get better at it yeah 00:42:22.750 --> 00:42:24.969 and I think it's important to remember that all 00:42:24.969 --> 00:42:27.429 of us as professionals like the learning journey 00:42:27.429 --> 00:42:30.510 never ends you know like if we all did what we 00:42:30.510 --> 00:42:33.289 were taught at university then none of us would 00:42:33.289 --> 00:42:35.869 have evolved into being the kind of neuroaffirming 00:42:35.869 --> 00:42:39.030 practitioners that we are now and I think it's 00:42:39.030 --> 00:42:43.070 about learning as we go adapting to the needs 00:42:43.070 --> 00:42:45.050 of the children learning about new ways of doing 00:42:45.050 --> 00:42:48.119 things validating different forms of communication, 00:42:48.380 --> 00:42:50.500 kind of trying to move away from those compliance 00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:52.760 -based approaches that many of us were taught 00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:56.400 in. And unfortunately, you know, it's still pretty 00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:59.719 rife in most schools across the UK and I think 00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:03.800 worldwide, really, the use of compliance -based 00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:06.760 approaches. And I think when we use compliance 00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:10.199 -based approaches, yes, they might work in the 00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:13.570 kind of short term, as in... most children will 00:43:13.570 --> 00:43:15.489 kind of just get on with it and do the task because 00:43:15.489 --> 00:43:18.409 you've asked them to but what's happening long 00:43:18.409 --> 00:43:21.949 term is the build -up of dysregulation happening 00:43:21.949 --> 00:43:25.210 over time and children feeling like they just 00:43:25.210 --> 00:43:28.389 can't be themselves and when we move towards 00:43:28.389 --> 00:43:32.369 more connection -based work and you know giving 00:43:32.369 --> 00:43:35.010 the children more freedom and more autonomy and 00:43:35.010 --> 00:43:38.650 moving away from reward charts and punishments 00:43:38.650 --> 00:43:41.030 and I think what is what's interesting as well 00:43:41.030 --> 00:43:44.019 is like When the compliance -based approach doesn't 00:43:44.019 --> 00:43:46.940 work and you get that immediate resistance from 00:43:46.940 --> 00:43:50.699 the child who won't comply and who will storm 00:43:50.699 --> 00:43:53.039 out of the class, there's nowhere to go from 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:56.300 that. Like, you know, if there's a child that's 00:43:56.300 --> 00:43:59.059 persistent and keeps resisting your compliance 00:43:59.059 --> 00:44:01.340 -based approach, you're just going to get into 00:44:01.340 --> 00:44:04.719 this kind of like power imbalance where you keep 00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:06.760 trying to power over the child by threatening 00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:09.900 to take away whatever it is. And they're just 00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:12.349 going to keep... going more and more and getting 00:44:12.349 --> 00:44:15.809 more dysregulated whereas when we use our connection 00:44:15.809 --> 00:44:19.289 -based approach and when a child tells us they're 00:44:19.289 --> 00:44:21.170 not able to do something whether they say it 00:44:21.170 --> 00:44:24.949 with their words or with their actions when we 00:44:24.949 --> 00:44:28.289 meet them where they're at so we understand from 00:44:28.289 --> 00:44:30.050 a nervous system point of view there's a reason 00:44:30.050 --> 00:44:31.750 for this they're not doing it because they're 00:44:31.750 --> 00:44:33.750 trying to give me a hard time they're not doing 00:44:33.750 --> 00:44:35.889 this because they're defiant they're genuinely 00:44:35.889 --> 00:44:39.550 unable to do this task in this moment And there's 00:44:39.550 --> 00:44:42.170 so many reasons why that happens. You know, it's 00:44:42.170 --> 00:44:45.610 not a choice. And I think that can be the biggest 00:44:45.610 --> 00:44:48.849 mindset shift when we start to tell ourselves, 00:44:49.150 --> 00:44:52.690 okay, this child is not choosing to do this. 00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:57.769 They're not choosing to defy me. But if you keep 00:44:57.769 --> 00:45:00.050 using the compliance -based approach, then they 00:45:00.050 --> 00:45:03.610 will keep... trying to overpower you because 00:45:03.610 --> 00:45:06.769 they feel like you don't understand them so I 00:45:06.769 --> 00:45:08.469 think when we use that connection -based approach 00:45:08.469 --> 00:45:11.389 you actually show a child that you are going 00:45:11.389 --> 00:45:14.010 to give them that unconditional positive regard 00:45:14.010 --> 00:45:16.769 no matter what it doesn't matter if they do their 00:45:16.769 --> 00:45:19.269 learning it doesn't matter if they do the tasks 00:45:19.269 --> 00:45:21.329 that they were meant to but you are going to 00:45:21.329 --> 00:45:23.510 be there for them because you care about them 00:45:23.510 --> 00:45:25.530 because you like them you want to spend time 00:45:25.530 --> 00:45:28.329 with them you want them to feel happy at school 00:45:28.329 --> 00:45:32.130 and It's not always about getting the learning 00:45:32.130 --> 00:45:36.170 done. Sometimes if all you do is co -regulate 00:45:36.170 --> 00:45:39.070 a child through a difficult moment, then you've 00:45:39.070 --> 00:45:42.210 done your job. But I think when we, it's hard 00:45:42.210 --> 00:45:44.309 because obviously the pressure comes from above 00:45:44.309 --> 00:45:48.030 and you have to have certain things ticked and, 00:45:48.150 --> 00:45:50.030 you know, you have to work in box. But then if 00:45:50.030 --> 00:45:51.710 they're just regulated, you're not going to do 00:45:51.710 --> 00:45:54.710 those things anyway. It's too easy to say, oh, 00:45:54.750 --> 00:45:56.489 but we've got to do this, this and this and think, 00:45:56.570 --> 00:45:58.610 yeah, but they can't do it. They can't learn 00:45:58.610 --> 00:46:02.099 their best. They can't. uh learn new skills they 00:46:02.099 --> 00:46:04.639 can't socialize and do all of those things that 00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:06.659 you need them to do unless they're regulated 00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:10.019 exactly it has to be first that's why regulation 00:46:10.019 --> 00:46:13.079 just has to come before everything else and that's 00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:16.260 why I always always always prioritize my relationship 00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:18.900 with a child before anything else you know I 00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:20.840 want to get to know them I want to know their 00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:22.900 interests I want to play with them I want to 00:46:22.900 --> 00:46:25.960 learn how they communicate and that comes before 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:28.760 anything else because a child who doesn't feel 00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:31.019 safe with you a child who doesn't feel like they 00:46:31.019 --> 00:46:33.599 can be authentic with you you're never going 00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:37.260 to get the you know you're never going to achieve 00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:41.639 what that child deserves because your you know 00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:43.340 relationships have to come before everything 00:46:43.340 --> 00:46:45.519 else a child who isn't regulated isn't going 00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:48.739 to learn I see parents falling into that compliance 00:46:48.739 --> 00:46:51.320 -based approach trap as well. They might see 00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:54.239 something online or try and copy the school model 00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:57.980 of reward charts, chore charts, and then they're 00:46:57.980 --> 00:47:00.000 wondering why it's not working and why their 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.420 children are having meltdowns and dysregulation. 00:47:03.500 --> 00:47:05.400 promising a magazine at the end of the week or 00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:06.920 they're promising a trip and then that's being 00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:09.000 taken away whatever it is they're doing and it 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:11.000 and it's not working and that can lead to real 00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:13.300 frustration as well for both and it can feel 00:47:13.300 --> 00:47:15.739 really personal so I think everything you said 00:47:15.739 --> 00:47:19.179 about a connection based led approach as well 00:47:19.179 --> 00:47:21.440 kind of works in the home too and we're coming 00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:23.320 up to the summer holidays now the kids are going 00:47:23.320 --> 00:47:25.860 to have six weeks out of school can we talk about 00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:28.300 regulation in the home as well to support some 00:47:28.300 --> 00:47:31.039 parents listening yeah of course so I mean I'm 00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:33.619 always going to say regulation through play is 00:47:33.619 --> 00:47:37.619 the best and that that looks different for every 00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:39.420 child as every child will have different play 00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:42.900 preferences different things that they that they 00:47:42.900 --> 00:47:45.320 like, that they don't like, different movement 00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:47.980 preferences, but using the kind of the child's 00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:49.980 led approach where you follow the child's lead 00:47:49.980 --> 00:47:52.760 to see what they're interested in, see what they're 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:55.619 curious about, see, because I think so often. 00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:59.099 Parents are so busy. You're carrying such a huge 00:47:59.099 --> 00:48:01.820 mental load and it's hard to find the time to 00:48:01.820 --> 00:48:04.960 play with your child. And I'm not expecting you 00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:08.039 to spend the whole six weeks every day playing 00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:10.260 with your child. But I think there's lots of 00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:13.579 nice things that you can do that don't cost a 00:48:13.579 --> 00:48:15.539 lot of money that you can just do at home with 00:48:15.539 --> 00:48:17.960 things that you already have. Like for me, I 00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:20.900 just love sensory play because you can make it. 00:48:21.230 --> 00:48:23.650 So cheap and cheerful. You know, you just need 00:48:23.650 --> 00:48:26.309 a tray or a bucket or something that you can 00:48:26.309 --> 00:48:29.789 put things in. And then I like having different 00:48:29.789 --> 00:48:32.329 things that you can swap in and out, like dried 00:48:32.329 --> 00:48:34.409 lentils, dried rice, things that are literally 00:48:34.409 --> 00:48:37.250 in your cupboard. And maybe you have some kinetic 00:48:37.250 --> 00:48:40.380 sand at home already. I really like Orbeez as 00:48:40.380 --> 00:48:43.599 well, or just water. Water and soap is an amazing, 00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:47.840 amazing way to have those kind of like sensory 00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:50.739 play opportunities. And then just adding a sponge, 00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:54.920 a jug, a bowl, any like little plastic toys that 00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:57.380 your child might have, little cars or little 00:48:57.380 --> 00:49:00.139 animals or whatever it is. And just let them 00:49:00.139 --> 00:49:03.659 play. be involved in that play and it doesn't 00:49:03.659 --> 00:49:05.760 have to be that you're you're being like this 00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:08.199 amazing like full -on version of yourself you 00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:11.320 can just sit with them and play and maybe use 00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:14.800 like some nice little gestalts like let's wash 00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:18.199 the animals let's squeeze like all of these kind 00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:20.179 of things that you can do to also help their 00:49:20.179 --> 00:49:23.300 communication but that is such a beautiful way 00:49:23.300 --> 00:49:25.300 to connect with children I think when we can 00:49:25.300 --> 00:49:27.860 connect through play we just see a different 00:49:27.860 --> 00:49:30.539 version of children and this goes for teenagers 00:49:30.539 --> 00:49:33.400 I was gonna say that as well I was a foster carer 00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:35.960 of teenagers and play looks different but they 00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:39.159 all play they all love it I mean like wrestling 00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:41.619 running in the playground running up the stairs 00:49:41.619 --> 00:49:45.019 just having fun following their interests yeah 00:49:45.019 --> 00:49:48.199 exactly and I think music dancing it's just having 00:49:48.199 --> 00:49:50.039 an interest in yeah what music they're into what 00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:51.719 programs they're into what characters they're 00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:54.199 in to going to the cinema maybe that's play to 00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:57.719 them and really joining in them in that properly 00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:00.920 you know not just tokenistic interest but real 00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:03.880 interest in what they're interested in yeah and 00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:05.960 I think that's the big thing I think when young 00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:08.239 people get to a certain age so that kind of teenager 00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:11.079 age and I mean It's such a tough time for teenagers 00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:13.639 because they start, you know, their puberty and 00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.019 hormones and all of these things going on in 00:50:16.019 --> 00:50:18.300 their bodies. And they do start to push the boundaries 00:50:18.300 --> 00:50:20.539 at home. And there's a lot more maybe resistance 00:50:20.539 --> 00:50:22.940 in that relationship. And it can be really frustrating 00:50:22.940 --> 00:50:25.400 for parents and for the young person because 00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:28.440 they've gone from being this kind of maybe child 00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:30.940 that was perceived as cute and playful and now 00:50:30.940 --> 00:50:33.559 they're perceived as this young person who kind 00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:35.780 of bangs the door and the parent doesn't know 00:50:35.780 --> 00:50:37.900 how to connect with them anymore and what I see 00:50:37.900 --> 00:50:40.320 so often is because I work with lots of teenagers 00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:44.840 and young and kind of like the 12 to 18 years 00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:48.280 old they love to play they just need someone 00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:51.320 who is willing to bring that playful side out 00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:53.940 of them again and a safe environment in order 00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:57.150 they feel like they can do that Exactly. A safe 00:50:57.150 --> 00:50:59.389 environment where they feel like their interests 00:50:59.389 --> 00:51:01.909 are valid, their interests are accepted. And 00:51:01.909 --> 00:51:03.469 sometimes parents will come to me and they're 00:51:03.469 --> 00:51:05.650 like, well, they're really into anime and I don't 00:51:05.650 --> 00:51:07.750 have a clue about anime. I don't have a clue 00:51:07.750 --> 00:51:10.130 about anime, but I've got lots of students who 00:51:10.130 --> 00:51:12.289 are really obsessed with anime. So maybe it's 00:51:12.289 --> 00:51:14.429 that you sit down and you do some sketching of 00:51:14.429 --> 00:51:16.809 anime characters together. Whatever it is, you 00:51:16.809 --> 00:51:18.710 ask them to teach you about their interests. 00:51:18.789 --> 00:51:22.070 You don't have to know anything about it. And 00:51:22.070 --> 00:51:24.989 I think that's sometimes where we as... adults 00:51:24.989 --> 00:51:27.550 can feel a bit stuck because we're like well 00:51:27.550 --> 00:51:29.590 we don't actually know anything about that area 00:51:29.590 --> 00:51:31.750 so we don't want to embarrass ourselves because 00:51:31.750 --> 00:51:33.130 they're going to be like well you don't know 00:51:33.130 --> 00:51:34.829 anything about it but actually if we get them 00:51:34.829 --> 00:51:37.690 to teach us it shows them that we're interested 00:51:37.690 --> 00:51:40.690 in what they're interested in and exactly like 00:51:40.690 --> 00:51:42.769 you said for teenagers it might be just sitting 00:51:42.769 --> 00:51:45.570 and watching a youtube clip or them yeah or them 00:51:45.570 --> 00:51:47.809 playing a video game and genuinely celebrating 00:51:47.809 --> 00:51:50.570 them when they win or commiserating with them 00:51:50.570 --> 00:51:52.949 when they don't just really being present and 00:51:52.949 --> 00:51:55.849 and it really can be five ten minutes a day and 00:51:55.849 --> 00:51:58.750 really really connecting with those micro moments 00:51:58.750 --> 00:52:01.849 of connection are so important I think It doesn't 00:52:01.849 --> 00:52:05.230 have to be a scheduled block of an hour or 30 00:52:05.230 --> 00:52:07.070 minutes, or it doesn't have to be these fancy 00:52:07.070 --> 00:52:09.829 days out where you bring them to an expensive 00:52:09.829 --> 00:52:12.769 activity. It can literally be things that you 00:52:12.769 --> 00:52:15.010 have in your cupboard. Maybe it's that you decide 00:52:15.010 --> 00:52:17.670 over the summer that you're going to paint the 00:52:17.670 --> 00:52:19.809 gate outside together or a garden or something 00:52:19.809 --> 00:52:22.030 like that, that it's like just something you 00:52:22.030 --> 00:52:24.110 can do in the house with materials you already 00:52:24.110 --> 00:52:26.590 have. Like it doesn't have to be. I know that. 00:52:26.860 --> 00:52:29.320 I often talk about like big fancy equipment, 00:52:29.420 --> 00:52:32.239 like our swings and our, like our tunnels and 00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:34.000 our yoga balls and all of those things, but we 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:37.659 don't need any of that. We can actually use so 00:52:37.659 --> 00:52:40.460 much of what we already have. Tape. Tape is another 00:52:40.460 --> 00:52:43.099 one that I love. Just like. colored masking tape 00:52:43.099 --> 00:52:45.159 you can use it for so many things you can set 00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:48.159 up an obstacle course on the ground you can stick 00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:50.619 little animals to the table to get them to peel 00:52:50.619 --> 00:52:52.440 it off for younger kids like there's so many 00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:54.800 things that you can do with the stuff that you 00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:56.880 already have it's not about spending loads of 00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:59.719 money I always think as well like when you buy 00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:03.110 kids the the trendy new toy that they really 00:53:03.110 --> 00:53:06.630 want that's like very niche like specific interest 00:53:06.630 --> 00:53:10.010 they might play with it for like a week or two 00:53:10.010 --> 00:53:12.250 and then they've kind of like lost the use for 00:53:12.250 --> 00:53:14.269 it whereas I think some of these things that 00:53:14.269 --> 00:53:17.309 we already have in our house water and soap lentils 00:53:17.309 --> 00:53:20.230 like these kind of things you can do so much 00:53:20.230 --> 00:53:23.230 with and children never really get bored of because 00:53:23.230 --> 00:53:26.190 yeah so that open -endedness I guess rather than 00:53:26.190 --> 00:53:28.889 toys where there's only a certain way of playing 00:53:28.889 --> 00:53:31.210 with them or a correct way of playing with them, 00:53:31.250 --> 00:53:33.650 making it maybe a little bit more open -ended 00:53:33.650 --> 00:53:36.909 so that there isn't the rules around play could 00:53:36.909 --> 00:53:40.030 extend it. Exactly. And even if you're playing 00:53:40.030 --> 00:53:42.989 something like a board game or a card game, letting 00:53:42.989 --> 00:53:46.269 go of the rules, like you don't have to play 00:53:46.269 --> 00:53:49.929 with the rules that are in the rulebook. I don't 00:53:49.929 --> 00:53:52.789 struggle with that. Yeah, it's really hard to 00:53:52.789 --> 00:53:55.090 let go of that expectation because that's what 00:53:55.090 --> 00:53:57.539 we were brought up. thinking that we had to do 00:53:57.539 --> 00:53:59.960 and again it comes from compliance complying 00:53:59.960 --> 00:54:02.760 with the rules but I think it's it's so fun to 00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:05.880 give the kids the reins and being like can you 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:08.480 come up with a better version of this game particularly 00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:12.260 for PDAers who we know board games and card games 00:54:12.260 --> 00:54:15.960 can really trigger a nervous system because they're 00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:18.739 the winner and a loser and the winning and losing 00:54:18.739 --> 00:54:21.340 is really tough yeah when you're diverging kids 00:54:21.340 --> 00:54:23.559 in particular so I think when you can just give 00:54:23.559 --> 00:54:26.289 them the autonomy to be like, you can come up 00:54:26.289 --> 00:54:28.789 with a better version of this game. I'd love 00:54:28.789 --> 00:54:31.409 to see where you could go with this game if you 00:54:31.409 --> 00:54:34.059 just... made your own rules and like that can 00:54:34.059 --> 00:54:37.400 just light up a PDA or like you can just see 00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:40.199 them because it gives them all the all the autonomy 00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:42.800 and the control which is exactly what we need 00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.739 to do and it's fun to make the adults lose it's 00:54:45.739 --> 00:54:49.420 so fun and it's so fun seeing children's creativity 00:54:49.420 --> 00:54:52.820 I learn so much from how we as adults can also 00:54:52.820 --> 00:54:56.500 model what it's like to lose positivity or what 00:54:56.500 --> 00:54:59.159 it's like to actually say oh I hate losing I 00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.800 feel really sad about that like almost narrate 00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:05.880 that to then model what the expectation is on 00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:08.440 being frustrated that they keep changing the 00:55:08.440 --> 00:55:11.579 rules it's okay to narrate that yeah no I think 00:55:11.579 --> 00:55:15.219 it's such a huge like learning opportunity when 00:55:15.219 --> 00:55:19.079 you can model how to lose appropriately I guess 00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:21.639 but I think safely I mean it's okay to admit 00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:23.659 you're frustrated it is frustrating to lose I 00:55:23.659 --> 00:55:27.019 hate losing I hate losing as well yeah it's okay 00:55:27.019 --> 00:55:30.739 to admit that It's just doing it safely, isn't 00:55:30.739 --> 00:55:33.380 it? It's being frustrated with the losing of 00:55:33.380 --> 00:55:36.000 the game. And feeling comfortable to give that 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:39.599 autonomy. And I think as well, like, I absolutely 00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:43.530 love... kids because every time I bring an activity 00:55:43.530 --> 00:55:45.550 and I might bring the same activity for five 00:55:45.550 --> 00:55:48.550 kids in the one day and they'll all see it from 00:55:48.550 --> 00:55:50.610 a different angle and they'll all play with it 00:55:50.610 --> 00:55:52.989 in a different way and I always love that because 00:55:52.989 --> 00:55:55.690 I'm like if they all played with it with it in 00:55:55.690 --> 00:56:00.389 the exact same way I'd be so bored whereas every 00:56:00.389 --> 00:56:03.130 single child has like they're so creative with 00:56:03.130 --> 00:56:06.050 how they view things and it's so nice to see 00:56:06.050 --> 00:56:08.030 like different ways of playing with things and 00:56:08.030 --> 00:56:11.260 we are limiting them by not allowing that, aren't 00:56:11.260 --> 00:56:13.960 we? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, 00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:16.539 you know, we want to create problem solvers. 00:56:16.539 --> 00:56:19.519 We want to create out of the box thinkers. And 00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:22.280 by always expecting kids to do things in the 00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:25.400 exact same way, we're dimming that kind of curiosity 00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:29.260 and creativity. So, yeah, big advocate of just 00:56:29.260 --> 00:56:32.940 letting kids lead. I mean, it perfectly advocates 00:56:32.940 --> 00:56:36.179 for our rice therapy program. It perfectly advocates 00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:38.900 for that, you know, developing this play session 00:56:38.900 --> 00:56:40.900 that we are completely led by the learners. We 00:56:40.900 --> 00:56:43.579 facilitate the objects and we say, what do you 00:56:43.579 --> 00:56:46.210 want to do with it? We follow their lead. And 00:56:46.210 --> 00:56:48.170 you're absolutely right. Every time I do the 00:56:48.170 --> 00:56:50.210 session, I run it four times, repeat it four 00:56:50.210 --> 00:56:52.409 times in four different classes across my school 00:56:52.409 --> 00:56:54.909 visits. And every single one has a completely 00:56:54.909 --> 00:56:56.889 different mood. Sometimes it's alerting. Sometimes 00:56:56.889 --> 00:56:59.150 it's calming. Sometimes, you know, they just 00:56:59.150 --> 00:57:00.909 use the objects in completely different ways. 00:57:00.949 --> 00:57:03.530 And I love that so much. It makes it interesting. 00:57:03.949 --> 00:57:06.349 Yeah, it's amazing. It's just so nice to not 00:57:06.349 --> 00:57:09.719 put any. specific expectation on a child and 00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:11.619 just seeing what they'll do with the materials 00:57:11.619 --> 00:57:13.860 I think that's just the best thing it comes with 00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:15.760 confidence doesn't it it comes with confidence 00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:18.820 over how they manage your space and safety and 00:57:18.820 --> 00:57:21.059 risk assessments and sensory profiles it comes 00:57:21.059 --> 00:57:23.699 with a lot of confidence from the adult It's 00:57:23.699 --> 00:57:25.960 an experience as well, you know. Yeah, absolutely. 00:57:26.380 --> 00:57:28.440 And often I say if something feels unsafe to 00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:31.559 you, sit with that. Is it actually unsafe or 00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:34.219 is it just not following what you expected, how 00:57:34.219 --> 00:57:36.739 you expected it to go? And sometimes it actually 00:57:36.739 --> 00:57:38.460 is unsafe and it needs to be whipped away. And 00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:40.480 that's fine. That happens too. That's important. 00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.480 Yeah, and sometimes, you know, a child -led play 00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:46.239 isn't about not having any boundaries. Like you 00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:50.510 can have safety boundaries. while being child 00:57:50.510 --> 00:57:52.909 led you know yeah it's not about letting the 00:57:52.909 --> 00:57:55.889 child do absolutely whatever they want and you 00:57:55.889 --> 00:57:58.070 know destroy your space and break your equipment 00:57:58.070 --> 00:58:01.289 right obviously there's boundaries but being 00:58:01.289 --> 00:58:04.150 child led means that you follow their lead and 00:58:04.150 --> 00:58:06.250 you're not afraid of it going in a different 00:58:06.250 --> 00:58:09.150 direction to what you expected it to as long 00:58:09.150 --> 00:58:11.710 as we're protecting safety yeah i think that's 00:58:11.710 --> 00:58:13.230 really important because sometimes people just 00:58:13.230 --> 00:58:15.750 think it's this airy fairy free -for -all chaos 00:58:15.750 --> 00:58:19.099 and That really isn't the reality. It really 00:58:19.099 --> 00:58:21.280 is just about following their lead, giving them 00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:23.820 the autonomy to come up with the ideas, validating 00:58:23.820 --> 00:58:26.559 and celebrating those ideas. Whilst being there 00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:29.559 to moderate and make it say. And maybe that means 00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:31.300 moving the environment. Maybe that means changing 00:58:31.300 --> 00:58:33.500 our clothing. Maybe that means removing some 00:58:33.500 --> 00:58:35.760 of the things that are on offer. We can monitor. 00:58:35.960 --> 00:58:38.440 I mean, as well, just like being mindful of who 00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:40.139 you put in groups together, if you know that 00:58:40.139 --> 00:58:42.119 those children that trigger each other. So it's 00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:44.260 all about, yeah, it comes with confidence and 00:58:44.260 --> 00:58:46.699 experience, I think, because I definitely wasn't 00:58:46.699 --> 00:58:48.800 able to work in this way when I first graduated. 00:58:48.860 --> 00:58:52.059 And over time, having worked in different specialist 00:58:52.059 --> 00:58:54.159 schools with different children from different 00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:56.849 backgrounds. in clinics in mainstream schools 00:58:56.849 --> 00:59:00.250 you start to learn that every child is so unique 00:59:00.250 --> 00:59:04.489 and every child needs a holistic kind of individualized 00:59:04.489 --> 00:59:07.710 approach but over time you start to learn what 00:59:07.710 --> 00:59:10.329 works for every child and for me that's connection 00:59:10.329 --> 00:59:13.309 nervous system safety sensory regulation and 00:59:13.309 --> 00:59:16.590 play yeah a really great start for me is edible 00:59:17.539 --> 00:59:20.179 light things that are outside because outside 00:59:20.179 --> 00:59:22.820 environment you can sprinkle and throw and without 00:59:22.820 --> 00:59:25.119 much anxiety from the adult. So I often try and 00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:28.219 start with dry cereal in a big bucket or a tray 00:59:28.219 --> 00:59:31.300 outside and then to see where that goes and then 00:59:31.300 --> 00:59:33.500 see what you want to add to that then and build 00:59:33.500 --> 00:59:35.320 up from there. That's a really lovely way to 00:59:35.320 --> 00:59:37.000 start. So if you're at the beginning of the summer 00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:38.800 holidays listening to this and you want to give 00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:41.780 it a go, pour out a box of cereal from your cupboard 00:59:41.780 --> 00:59:45.150 into a tray or a bucket. and just see what happens 00:59:45.150 --> 00:59:49.329 outside see what happens and go from there spaces 00:59:49.329 --> 00:59:51.550 are just amazing as well where children don't 00:59:51.550 --> 00:59:54.210 feel so confined and they can't just be like 00:59:54.210 --> 00:59:56.650 that's why i just love like going to forest schools 00:59:56.650 --> 00:59:59.170 where children are just like running around climbing 00:59:59.170 --> 01:00:02.349 trees digging in the mud and it's just like they're 01:00:02.349 --> 01:00:05.969 so regulated from all of the the nature around 01:00:05.969 --> 01:00:08.969 them so yeah outdoors is amazing and in this 01:00:08.969 --> 01:00:11.090 hot weather water balloon fight if you're brave 01:00:11.090 --> 01:00:13.840 enough Yeah, absolutely. And bring it outside. 01:00:14.239 --> 01:00:16.659 Everything, you know, if the kids are climbing 01:00:16.659 --> 01:00:19.800 the walls, remove the walls. Yeah. Another one 01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:22.199 I love is the sensory foam that you can put on 01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:24.219 the windows outside and you can just draw in 01:00:24.219 --> 01:00:26.199 the windows. Yeah, there's so much you can do 01:00:26.199 --> 01:00:29.210 in the outdoor space. I love that so much. If 01:00:29.210 --> 01:00:31.949 you want to find out more and if people are listening 01:00:31.949 --> 01:00:34.090 and want to hear more from you and love how you're 01:00:34.090 --> 01:00:36.789 thinking, where can they find out more information 01:00:36.789 --> 01:00:39.809 about your practice and you in general? I post 01:00:39.809 --> 01:00:42.590 loads of fun ideas on my Instagram page at the 01:00:42.590 --> 01:00:45.849 optimistic OT. So at the underscore optimistic 01:00:45.849 --> 01:00:48.849 OT. So I always try to post a variety of content 01:00:48.849 --> 01:00:51.210 from sensory play ideas to movement breaks. I 01:00:51.210 --> 01:00:52.929 always try and keep everything really low cost, 01:00:52.949 --> 01:00:55.349 low prep, because I know cost of living crisis 01:00:55.349 --> 01:00:58.599 and the mental load. is just so high for parents. 01:00:58.619 --> 01:01:01.000 So I always try and keep it really low cost and 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:03.699 low prep. But I also post a lot about like concepts 01:01:03.699 --> 01:01:06.219 like fluctuating capacity, how to create a neuroaffirming 01:01:06.219 --> 01:01:08.500 classroom and executive functioning skills, all 01:01:08.500 --> 01:01:11.380 of those kind of things. I also offer online 01:01:11.380 --> 01:01:13.800 consultations. If you're interested in learning 01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:15.920 more about your child's sensory processing needs, 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:18.539 I can do a sensory profile. I'm going to be offering 01:01:18.539 --> 01:01:21.960 direct sessions over the summer in London if 01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:23.659 you wanted to reach out to me about that. So 01:01:23.659 --> 01:01:25.280 yeah, you can reach out to me through my Instagram 01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:30.090 or my email address. is martha .theoptimisticoutlook 01:01:30.090 --> 01:01:33.230 .com. Amazing. Thank you so much, Mother. This 01:01:33.230 --> 01:01:37.510 is such a positive and wonderful episode to kind 01:01:37.510 --> 01:01:40.309 of lead us into what can be quite an anxiety 01:01:40.309 --> 01:01:42.789 -provoking time for parents in the summer holidays, 01:01:42.889 --> 01:01:44.969 but also for teachers thinking ahead of their 01:01:44.969 --> 01:01:47.570 new class maybe in September. So I think it's 01:01:47.570 --> 01:01:50.090 a really perfect time to kind of leave maybe 01:01:50.090 --> 01:01:52.809 what we've been doing behind and start afresh 01:01:52.809 --> 01:01:55.610 and really... really try out these new strategies 01:01:55.610 --> 01:01:58.570 yeah thank you this chat jordan thank you so 01:01:58.570 --> 01:02:01.590 much i feel so alive from talking about thanks 01:02:01.590 --> 01:02:02.530 i love it