Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome to the Sensory Classroom
podcast. My name is Jordan and today I am joined
by Sammy who is from Spectrum Patronum and also
my co -director at Rise Therapy. Hi Sammy. Hi
Jordan, how are you? Good, thank you. Is this
your third or fourth time on the podcast? Third.
Third time, yeah. I think you are definitely
our most visited guest and there's good reason
for that. First of all, do you want to remind
everybody who you are and what you do before
we get into it? Yeah, so I am Sammy. I run Spectrum
Patronum, which is a website to support mainly
communication needs for children who are non
-speaking. I'm a teacher of children with PMLD
and non -speaking autistic children as well.
Amazing. So we come from a very similar background,
special education, minimally speaking autistic
and PMLD students. We both have a passion for
sensory regulation and communication. And we
kind of just gravitated towards each other quite
organically and quite quickly. We had the same
ideas on what should and shouldn't be happening
in the classroom. We're finding the same sticking
points. And I guess that's kind of why we keep
gravitating towards each other with all of this.
Agreed, yes. But it's nice to have a colleague
in that sense, really, because sometimes, I mean,
especially for me being in not a special school,
but being attached to a mainstream school, I
didn't have any colleagues that were also teachers
that got it, that I could collaborate with, ask
questions to, what are you doing? What programs
are you using? What have you found out? How have
you solved this thing that I'm finding with these
students? And it was really helpful to kind of
have. Yeah, a colleague in my pocket that I could
trust that would be looking for the same things
in the same compassionate way that I was. Absolutely.
And it's important to have people, isn't it,
that have the same mindset and the same sort
of like flow as you. Like we prioritise regulation
and sensory needs and communication over... everything
else which is definitely why we were like magnets
I feel like yeah when we yeah like it was all
organic which was really nice totally and then
we've related also when I on a personal level
as well both being neurodivergent ourselves so
and everything that that brings up as teachers
and women and and all of those things so yeah
there's a lot of kindred spirit stuff going on
there and I guess also that's why our social
medias do so well and the podcast does so well
because other people are also looking for those
colleagues of like -minded teachers that they
can collaborate with get ideas from and I love
that we can kind of make ideas together and then
kind of spit it out and share it out to other
people that might be needing to hear those things
too. On that what are you currently working on
with Spectrum Patronum? So There's always, especially
as a neurodivergent person, there are always
several projects on the go. My main project at
the moment is a new subscription -based membership
service that will be called The Academy. And
Academy is spelt with AAC at the beginning. I'm
hoping to aim it, well, it's going to be aimed
towards parents and professionals. Also provide
things like quick, sort of quick wind handouts,
like to refer to. Also quick, you know, quick
tips, how to's, short snappy videos, but also
long, like one hour training support videos to.
like focusing on specific areas like communication
in the home, communication when out and about
in the community, how to use objects of reference.
Anything you can think of that is linked to supporting
communication for our learners will be in the
AAC. Which is... Maybe some people might be surprised
by this, but it is so needed. Speech -language
therapists are few and far between, NHS ones
anyway, and schools, certainly our school, we
had a volunteer speech -language therapist who
was retired. That was all we could have in Cornwall.
I don't know if that's a national problem, but
it's certainly what we've found down here, that
we just cannot access up -to -date, high -quality,
new or affirming communication support. Yeah,
and that's what it's going to be. Like, I mean,
I didn't mention that, but we know it's going
to be those neuroaffirming approaches and how
to support in a way that supports body autonomy
and, you know, absolutely no ABA approaches.
And no, it's always going to be, there's going
to be always a focus on a lot like being child
led and child focused, interest focused, because
that's where we see that we make. the most progress
with learning and communication is when it's
on the child's terms because it has to be. I
think it's really helpful to have longer form
videos as well it's so hard it's so easy to say
I don't like ABA in a 90 second social media
post but it's really hard in 90 seconds to say
that and say what to do instead and there's so
much confusion around it and I think a lot of
professionals and parents are feeling quite overwhelmed
that okay we can't do this that you're telling
us to do but what do we do instead what does
that look like what do we does it feel like what
resources do we need am i doing it right and
i think for 90 seconds on a social media post
it's impossible to go through all of the nuance
of it because there is so much nuance with it
all so i guess in that i think the academy could
be perfect for going through it in great detail
in video form so you can show it see it do it
like feel it rather than yeah 90 seconds where
you just you can't show the full breadth of what
is required absolutely and obviously I'm like
recording some of the content now and some of
the presentations and I'm just like trying to
do a little bit of like market research as well
because obviously I want this to be accessible
to parents and I know that sometimes they may
only have 10 minutes here and there and I'm just
trying to figure out what's the best way to present
this you know do I do the whole a whole hour
session or do is that then broken up into six
ten minutes and that's common go couldn't they
yeah And I guess then people can decide maybe
they have got an hour and actually it's best
that they just bulk it and get it all in. Or
sometimes, yeah, it's best that they just do
little and often whilst they're waiting in the
queue for something. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm trying
to do like I'm going to try and do because, again,
to meet the needs of parents and carers and professionals.
not just do so say video form then try and make
it maybe maybe into an audio form so that they
can listen in the car and then also have it as
like a handout so that we have multiple again
that's a preferred way of learning isn't it we
know that it's not as adults as well some of
us prefer to watch a webinar some of us prefer
to listen to a podcast but some of us prefer
to read so I think it's obviously going to take
like quite a while to like get everything going
and roll it out and what's kind of been holding
me back and put me off is obviously it's quite
overwhelming and there's lots to do and then
I start start them and then they don't get completely
finished because then I think oh I need to make
that accessible but actually what I'm going to
do is I'm going to aiming for the summer So it's
going to be open, obviously at a discounted rate
because I just want to start getting it out there
because I think this is going to be one of those
projects that personally is never going to be
finished. I'm always going to be wanting to add
more and more and coming up with more things.
And if I try and wait for it to be finished,
it will never be released. And it's better that
they have this information in whatever form is
available right now. Yes, absolutely. Because
it is needed. It's so needed. We've got a campaign
at the moment that's being run by Laura from
Spinning World with Autism. It's called Speak
Up for Autism, an incredibly, really important
campaign. I'll put the link down below, actually,
to sign her petition. All about the failures
of NHS speech and language therapy and how...
literal training there is on autistic learners
and and how they communicate and so many non
-speaking autistic children are being let down
by the speech language services because they
can't talk so they don't know how to work with
these children which to me just seems as a middle
-speaking specialist and i'm sure you feel the
same this feels so bizarre to me because they're
the ones that need speech language therapy most
they're the most rewarding kids to work with
in my very biased opinion so rewarding because
you get so many huge leaps at that stage um guest
up language process as well like so so exciting
to work with i just think the nhs speech language
team just through lack of understanding and training
are missing out on this huge cohort of learners
that are needing it so if your academy can get
in as well then like yeah like that would really
help fill the gap i think yeah yeah absolutely
and like you say like because actually if there's
no training for this or this minimal training
for speech and language therapists that you know
we know that using neurotypical systems don't
work for our neurodivergent learners so i'm hoping
yeah so it will be it will be i'm committing
it will be stuck like opened in the summer obviously
with less content and it will just be one of
those things that is built upon as time goes
on it sounds really exciting and as soon as it's
available i will add a link to this um as soon
as it's ready But for now, I will put your website
just so that, you know, when it is, you're ready.
You can sign up to newsletters and all of those
fun things if you're hearing this and are keen
to learn more. We're also working on rise therapy
sessions together, which is what I mentioned
at the start. I suppose, can you explain first
what was missing in your classroom and curriculum
that helped spark the inspiration or the need
for developing rise therapy in the first place?
I think and I know we've had these conversations
before because this is part of where you and
I were going back and forth with like almost
dilemmas in our classroom, like working things
out. You know, we're mainly working on in my
classroom, you know, attention and engagement
skills and certain programs that we were doing
in my classroom just weren't suitable. The main
one that brings all the success was intensive
interaction. And I know you're also a huge advocate
of intensive interaction and it's just incredible.
And I found that that was the main one I was
doing, really, because other ones just weren't
suitable and didn't feel right to the level of
needs my class had. Yeah, I was finding the same.
I've got a class of half of them on an ambulance,
PMLD learners, so they couldn't get themselves
like... to the areas and they couldn't give consent
necessarily easily to be there. And I was concerned
about that. They also couldn't like visually
access the resources without touching them. Like
they learn through their senses. They don't learn
visually. Two of them are visually impaired.
So they couldn't learn visually without touching.
So the touching element was kind of missing for
me with what we were doing originally. But for
that cohort, I've also got some learners that
are highly anxious about transitions. So to get
them either through PDA, you know, there was
an anxiety around being told to be somewhere
at a certain time. So there was those learners
that found transitioning difficult in that sense.
But also there was learners that find just transitioning
difficult, starting activity, finishing activity
and moving from area to area, even within one
classroom. So it also found that it felt like
a battle to get them all in one place, all at
one time. already willing looking regulated and
all of those things and it gave it put so much
it felt like a battle it put so much adults in
there to make that happen um that it always felt
like hard work like we were batting against the
children rather than going with them so they're
the two main things that I was finding in my
room with what I was doing already and that kind
of was happening in every area of our classroom
like it felt very adult -led very prompt dependent
we used the teach model in my classroom so it
was very much like structured this has happening
then this and we tried to make it flexible but
we weren't really fully neuro affirming looking
back we weren't truly believing the children
when they said they couldn't attend or couldn't
be there or couldn't do it we were using distraction
we were using now next we'd be using coaxing
prompting you know we were looking back we were
using all of those things thinking that we were
collaborating and negotiating when really we
were controlling and and um and even though it
was done with love we were still controlling
and i think It's hard to know if you're doing
that because autistic children, I found, are
so easily controlled because of their maybe lack
of social understanding. Maybe they can't really
think outside the box in a similar way to neurotypical
children. That they were more easily controlled
because they cannot imagine another option than
what they're being shown. So when a now and next
was brought out or when their schedule was brought
out. If they didn't want to do the next thing,
they couldn't think, oh, but I want to do this
instead. So I'm going to get that symbol. They
would have an absolute crisis and breakdown.
And we were finding that a lot. But we were using
visuals. We were doing it with love. We were
adding sensory things. We were trying so hard,
but it was still control and compliance looking
back. Now I can see what we're doing now with
rise therapy and how that's changed the classroom
whole dynamic and how we work with the learners.
I can see that what we were doing, even though
it was with love. was also based in control and
compliance. Agreed. And I think, like you said,
I look back, say, five years ago, and I think,
gosh, if I was doing, and I had a really tricky
year, and actually, I think if I had my mindset
and my practice that it is now, probably would
have been, might not have, but probably would
have been a lot easier. It's hard not to think
about, isn't it? I think back to the classes
I had 10 years ago. And I think, God, I really
failed that learner. I didn't understand what
they needed from me. I didn't understand how
to communicate with them. I wasn't meeting them
where they were at. They weren't meeting me where
I was with the rest of the class. So then they
were just other, you know, and I have to sit
with that and I have to own that. And I think
where we're seeing this battle between ABA and
no ABA, neurofilming and non -neurofilming, it
comes from the adult fear of admitting. that
they didn't do the best that they could before
and I think that comes with humility it comes
with no ego I am admitting that in my early years
I knew no better and I did not do my best for
the learners because I knew no better and you
can't do better until you know better and that's
also okay but what I don't want is for people
to hear another way a more kind compassionate
neuro affirming way that is believing the children
that is being led by them listening to their
bodies and then rejecting it through fear of
admitting that you've done wrong in the past
I just think there's that battle there you've
got to lower that ego and just admit I didn't
know better but I do now so I'm going to make
a change have you noticed a similar thing within
your team and within yourself as well absolutely
like you hit the nail on the head there because
I just think I always think we are taught throughout
uni and when we're doing our PGCE or whatever
it you know whatever journey you go on to get
your teaching practice it's we're taught reflective
practice to be reflective practitioners to reflect
on things and to always you know you don't stop
learning you just you keep learning and you do
better and I always say I'll put my hands up
I can even look back on things last year and
I go actually maybe I should have done that me
and a colleague of mine will often say we'll
have we have really open reflective conversations
and we both like she said so you know this happened
today she was like and I'm really reflecting
on it she was like and she's a very neuro affirming
practitioner she is very similar to you and I
and we and we're always and I say you know what
this happened to me like a couple of days ago
and I just was reflecting on it and actually
I shouldn't have done I shouldn't have like maybe
maybe I was a bit more reactive than like what's
the other word it's easy to fall back on those
practice is easy to fall back on control and
compliance because it's the quickest way to get
a result yes it works it is evidence -based i
think that's also where the confusion comes from
it works it is evidence -based controlling a
child using timers using naughty steps using
now next visual support how pecs whatever you're
doing to control this child which also all of
those things can be used in a neurofirming way
by the way yes 100 % to control the child for
compliance which means not necessarily engagement
but sitting listening complying then it looks
like you've got a good result quite quickly yeah
but what's really happening there which we are
now learning as communication The ability to
communicate is improving for our autistic peers.
As communication is improving, we are learning
that these adults can now communicate to us and
tell us what effect that has had on them. Yes.
When they have been controlled in that control
and compliance kind of methods way. So yes, it
looked on the outset like it was working. They
looked calm. They looked like they were doing
their work, complying in the classroom, quiet,
hands still, all of those things that we're told.
and shown they are now telling us that it really
affected their mental health it really affected
their relationships with the adults and their
trust with the world it really affected their
sense of self and their body autonomy wasn't
respected and it really set them back we have
to listen to that you know don't listen to me
and sammy don't listen to speech and language
you have to listen to autistic adults you have
to otherwise what have we got so You know, the
more I am sitting on social media, reading research,
like listening to webinars and all of that from
autistic adults that have that experience. I've
got an amazing podcast, only 18 minutes long,
but it's the most powerful podcast I've ever
recorded with Honestly, I Was Speechless. I can't
remember what episode it was, but go and find
it. She speaks through AAC, through the podcast,
and she speaks with such wisdom. And such insight.
And she explains exactly this, that I didn't
know what was happening at the time, but I didn't
feel safe. I didn't trust my adults. I was in
complete dysregulation and I wasn't being heard
or listened to. I didn't have robust communication
supports. That's why I was struggling. I just
didn't know how to communicate that back then.
And we have to listen to adults like that because
the children that we're working with today will
be adults of tomorrow. And I cannot sleep at
night if I think that any child that I've worked
with hearing that. will then be an adult that
then tells people that that's what they experience
in my classroom. I couldn't sleep at night if
that was even a possibility. And that's what
made me make the change to being as new or affirming,
which means believing the children when they're
saying and showing me. that they're not ready
or that they need something different or they
need a different tact or just, just believing
them. I mean, that is the basis of neurophobic
practice. And listening to those behaviours because,
and I always think, you know, when we hear the
word behaviour, it's kind of seen as a negative
word, but there are positive behaviours and,
you know, you know. It's just behaviour. It just
is. It's just what you're doing. Yeah. It's just
how we're acting. But I feel like as soon as
people hear the word behaviour, There's a negative
connotation to it. But actually listening to
those behaviours, whatever they may be, and respecting
that when the behaviour is the communication
is so important. And our priority as professionals
is to safeguard and protect our children. And
I think sometimes we don't want to be suppressing.
how they're feeling or if they don't want to
do something and I think obviously like talking
like say consent wise learning yes and yes and
no and how it how we respect them when they say
yes and no is so important but yeah I just that's
why I think you and I both then decided it was
time to build something from what we were experiencing
and where there was almost a bit of a gap Yeah,
we looked. Because I didn't want to create a
whole therapy from scratch. We really, both of
us and neither of us had any time or capacity
to do that. So we really did our research. We
found intensive interaction. We've been using
that for years anyway. But that was the basis.
But it wasn't teaching about transitions. It
wasn't necessarily teaching about group work
and communication. It's the early communication,
but it wasn't developing like AAC, high tech
AAC use. It wasn't building confidence yet to
work alongside people. and all those other things
that we wanted it to include. So yes, intensive
interaction. Yeah, okay, we found that. Brilliant.
What else is there? Nothing else out there. Completely
ticked every box that we needed it to. It didn't
meet every learner that we needed it to meet.
It didn't meet every criteria that we had written.
And we literally did write a list, didn't we,
of everything that we needed it to include. And
it was about two pages, I think, of bullet point
lists of everything that we wanted this. thing
if we were going to create it find it whatever
to include and it didn't exist so we thought
well a little bit of little red hair and fine
and I'll do it myself and and we did and it actually
came together quite quickly because I think because
we'd actually been doing it in our practice for
quite a while already we had already been developing
changes we had already been developing ways of
supporting transition providing engaging experiences
alongside peers. We had been already exploring
those things, unknowing what we were actually
developing without a name. Yeah. And we just
sort of bought its feather, didn't we? We started
with the name though, didn't we? We wanted it
to be a four -step approach. We wanted it to
have the structure so that the adults using rise
therapy had a system, had a structure. They could
feel safe within the pillars and the... the um
the concrete nature of the structure and then
the flexibility comes in around following the
flow of the children so the name stands for something
does it that was how we started can you remember
how we developed those that acronym and what
was important to include in that can you remember
how we did that i remember we were going back
and forth and we also had a working document
and we were coming up with different we knew
we wanted the acronym like we're like right it's
four letter so when we were coming up with four
letter words weren't we that were like a positive
four letter words and I can't think of the top
of my head what we kind of came up with we came
up loads of different ones but we're like right
what do we need it to stand for what's really
important and the most important one we were
both like regulation yeah connection which is
where we got the regulate and reconnect from
for the R for rise that came really quickly didn't
it like that had to happen that was it has to
begin with R yeah and it has to start it has
to yeah it has to start with R right okay that's
easy yeah and then we can't do anything I think
the S was originally sensory experience yes So
we knew that we wanted some kind of sensory touching
experience. That was part of our tick list of
wanting children for it not to just be visually
appealing, because that's really important, but
we wanted it to be sensory, tactile, for them
to touch and really get into it, like physically
into it. We didn't know what that looked like
at that point, but we wanted them to be in the
action. So that S was really came to be. It wasn't
shared experience at first, but it was like sensory.
ideas that needed to be in the middle there and
then we also very quickly came up with ending
we needed to support our learners transitions
was something else on our list we need to support
our learners yes coming to the activity willingly
with consent but also leaving the activity positively
and regulated to be ready to move on to the next
thing because So often what we were finding in
our classroom was the learners were becoming
dysregulated when they were finishing and loved
and enjoyed activities. So the more brilliant
and fun our lessons were, which is great because
it gets loads of learning and there's loads of
opportunities for communication and engagement,
all those things. But then that then led to dysregulation.
It led to tit trays, mess on the floor, hurting
behaviours. And that then meant that... it was
then more tricky to do the actual fun activity.
It was putting us off from doing it safely. We
needed a fix for that. We needed to work out
a way. How can we finish this loved activity,
teach our learners to transition out of this
activity in a regulated way? And I think that
was something that I was always not very good
at, the ending, because I think when we were
having a really lovely time, a really good lesson.
just kept going kept going and then it's gosh
it's time it's time to pack up for lunch and
then there's a rush everything finishes very
abruptly adults are rushing around and that causes
anxiety and it causes the room to become go from
especially if you're doing this really lovely
flow child led exploring things and then it's
like it's like you're going into fight or flight
it's oh my goodness what's happening and we're
working with learners that have really long processing
time so no wonder they were getting dysregulated
then like you're whipping things away like oh
we've got to tidy up we've got to tidy up we've
got to do this we've got to get ready for home
time or whatever it was and that was one that
was like a pinch point where I found that actually
I need to really make time for the ending and
then that's where we came up with the E wasn't
it because I think yeah yeah so the I and the
S were really they kind of were already existing
we knew it wanted to be we wanted to have some
kind of invitation which is the I something really
visual that entices learners to want to come
over on their own terms without adult prompting
without adult guidance without even visuals ideally
that they just see something that they is irresistible
they just cannot wait to get part of and come
on over on their own terms or at least show interest
so that's the i and the s is shared experience
we wanted that sensory experience that is with
a group alongside each other yes they might be
playing on their own in their own complete individual
own way but they're alongside each other they're
sharing resources maybe or at least alongside
each other we're sharing a space we're sharing
an area I and S kind of wrote themselves, really,
and then they are blanketed beautifully with
bookends of regulation at the start and all the
way through, let's face it. But we start with
regulation and finish with ending. And it's that
lovely bracket of hugging what we were already
doing, I think, which is the invitation and the
sensory or shared experience. But by bookending
it with regulation, which then travels all the
way through and finishing it with a really positive
and really conscious and planned for ending,
that's what makes Rise different, I think. How
have you, what has been the impact in your classroom?
We spoke about what it was like before and what
learners you weren't meeting. What has it been
like now you are using that four -step system?
It's been... like just a bit of a game changer
really because it's what I think also like changing
mindsets of others so like changing mindsets
of your team of like actually they are joining
in even if they've not come to say during the
shared experience I've got a horseshoe table
that I sometimes do it at or we sometimes do
it at a tough tray or on the floor we're very
flexible with that approach and actually you
know shared experience is you know you're in
the room with others that for some of our learners
we know that the tolerance of that is enough
but also allowing not not being scared or worried
and like no it's fine they're good they're going
to go to the buffet of resources or they're going
to go back to that their favorite gimbal and
bounce in the corner with a blanket to regulate
and that's okay because that's what they need
it allows those perimeters it gives learn it
gives adults permission To allow children to
look into their bodies and come and go and not
feel like they're not doing their job or they've
failed at getting them there. I think that's
the thing is, is sometimes people see the shared
experience is the work that we must do, which
we are very clear, you know, when we do our training
and things, it's not about that. It's, you know,
and you can come and go from the shared experience.
Or never get to the shared experience and you've
still been successful. Absolutely. And you can
spend the time in. the regulation and actually
maybe if you want to see it as oh that's the
work the work might be that adult going over
and doing a bit of intensive interaction nearby
if accepted if accepted by that child and actually
I think sometimes like you say like I feel like
as adults maybe people we need permission to
go it's okay because what you're doing is you're
listening to your child and what that child needs
yeah I think that TAs are used to being busy
they're used to feeling like they need to be
doing something all the time because they're
fantastic and they're really hard working am
I good do we need them yes But all of a sudden
with RISE, because we were listening to the children,
there wasn't as much dysregulation because they
were regulated and they were being heard and
believed and felt in control. So all the children
with PDA felt like they had autonomy. So we weren't
seeing any dysregulation there. All of the children
that had quite complex sensory needs were being
heard because in our planning, through our training,
we talk a lot about sensory profiles. All the
sessions were catered for their claims. styles
their sensory needs so that they couldn't fail
at it if they were throwers we would give them
safe throwing activities it wouldn't be harnessed
or dampened or seen as it wouldn't be hurting
because we would provide an environment and an
activity in which they could be and play and
communicate and explore how they naturally do
within what we give them we were setting them
up to succeed basically we're making it errorless
which are then again without that harnessing
and barriers also prevented dysregulation because
that's where that was coming from. We were also
giving loads of opportunities for them to feel
heard and validated in all of their communication
attempts in a beautiful total communication way.
They didn't have to use symbols. They didn't
have to sign. They didn't have to use their high
tech. We were accepting everything, reaching,
pointing, proximity, eye gaze, whatever. Whatever
they were using was accepted through it. And
again, that level of dysregulation because they
felt heard and believed and that was what was
causing dysregulation in the first place. We're
also giving those a processing time to finish,
start activity, transition on their own terms.
And that was also what was causing dysregulation.
So by kind of removing all of those triggers
for them, we were having a really regulated room,
which meant that we could do activities that
we could never do before. I could never, ever
get a bowl of water out in my room and put it
in the middle of the room for more than a second
without it being tipped over before. I could
not. And I love it when people comment that on
my videos, actually, like, oh, yeah, point of
view. Like someone said it yesterday, point of
view, that's going to get tipped over in seconds.
And I say, yeah, it would do. If they're not
regulated, if they're not feeling believed, if
you haven't put that activity in an environment
where it is safe to tip, that actually we all
tip together. Maybe that is how they play. Maybe
we have a tipping water activity. Maybe that's
the whole point that we're missing. So, yeah,
that for me has been the game changer is kind
of rather than getting the children to come to
my plan, follow my structure, follow what I,
what the amazing fun activity that I've seen
on TikTok that I want to recreate. I've got a
plan, but my goodness, is it swayed by them and
led by them. It's completely aimed at their natural
play. style their way of exploring their way
of navigating the world their way of learning
their way of communicating and that's been a
game changer for me what started as an afternoon
session speech language session daily which is
which was wonderful in its own right you know
doing those separate sessions has now absolutely
bled into everything we do everything I mean
not just lessons either even the way they get
into the gate in the morning is rise is regulation
first and then we invite them in and then we
have a shared experience and and regulate and
co -regulate in that lovely way all together
and then we try and end it positively before
we move on you know even going to the toilet
is a rise session in my room now we're constantly
thinking about every transition how can we do
this with regulation in mind how can we do this
with connection in mind first how can we validate
all of their communication and their their body
autonomy in this moment which is so important
in those in -between sessions as well as in the
lesson and the difference i've seen is my adults
are all using neurofeminine practice without
even asking them like it just kind of has happened
because i think they're just naturally seen a
different way they needed the structure of rise
to follow they needed the four you need the acronyms
the four step yeah But actually, if you just
walked into my room, you wouldn't see a structured
approach. What you would see was children listening
to their bodies, having body autonomy. If they're
hungry, they have snack. If they need a chewy,
they get a chewy. If they need to go outside
for a breather, they go for a breather. And the
adults have confidence they can allow that without
losing complete control because they have the
structure to fall back on. They understand to
get them back in. I feel confident in this system.
I know that I just need to regulate and co -regulate
with them, validate what they're feeling, make
sure their regulation needs are met. I invite
them in and then they will join so long as I'm
meeting that need. And it's kind of given them
permission without fear of losing control. And
I do think that's why we keep falling back to
control and compliance -based approaches is the
adult fear of losing control. And I think also
sometimes we assume. that it's our control and
our structure and us controlling adult led da
da da da we think that that is how they're going
to learn and we need to control certain situations
because this is how they're going to attend this
is how they're going to engage this is we're
providing all of this stuff to support them and
I do feel like you know that always comes from
a place of love and a place of support because
we think we're doing the right thing for our
children and actually what could happen if we
don't do that exactly and actually when when
we're prioritizing regulation and sensory needs
and basic needs, you know, hunger, tiredness,
etc. When we're prioritising that, like we're
going to see less dysregulation. We're going
to, the children are going to be ready to learn.
I mean, like the most basic thing that we learn,
isn't it, about Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
How can we learn? How can we expect our children
to learn if they are hungry, if their sensory
needs are not being met? And I think people know
that. I do think teachers know that. But they
don't know what that actually looks like without
imagining an absolute free -for -all. Yes, I
agree. And I think sometimes there's also a little
bit of fear that it looks like they're doing
nothing. But the adults are doing nothing. Yeah,
the adults are doing nothing. But also I've heard
it from some people that say, oh, but then the
children aren't doing anything. And one of my
headteachers actually used to come in. um and
she would say like you know like sometimes when
especially when you're a newly qualified teacher
and head teacher comes in you're like oh my goodness
oh my goodness does it look like do you know
am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing what
it says on the plan and she would come in and
she'd go I can see regulation happening over
there I can see um the communication skills going
on over there she went don't she always said
don't worry you know I can and actually that's
that helped me because I think sometimes if people
walk in and don't understand what they see is
happening and at least the rise structure can
give that you can say oh we're just in step one
at the moment we're doing regulation or oh we're
just we're just in step two at the moment i'm
inviting them over they're not quite there yet
but they're coming or you know providing that
yeah i'm providing it gives some structure um
which has had yeah such a huge impact in all
our timetables and then we've also seen what
an impact it's had on others we've got a group
of over 3 000 people that are using this system
and we've only been we only released it in september
so that's pretty wild to me yeah three thousand
people at least actually because that's just
part of the facebook that's that's our measure
there's probably people using that aren't in
facebook or whatever that are using this system
and they're seeing an impact which is so validating
and so exciting that across the world, we've
got people in Australia, you know, that are using
this system, that are also seeing the same impact
that we were, but that were also finding the
same sticking points that we were. We did think
we could be the only ones that are finding these
sticking points, that these systems aren't working
for all of the children. And as our classes get
more and more high support needs, as our classes
have more and more complex needs, we need to
be changing our practice. and we weren't the
only ones of course we weren't there's a huge
cohort out there of teachers and and classrooms
that were finding the same things as us that
have found rise really organically and saw it
and just got on board saw it knew that it was
right wanted to give it a go and god the people
that had part of our training have been so passionate
so fantastic come with wonderful ideas and enthusiasm
and they're seeing Huge impact in their coaching.
Same as us. Less dysregulation, more confidence
in their staff, more structure. Weirdly, you
know, you take the control away. There is still
structure. Structure to how they deal with different
situations, to how they support communication
and regulation. And it's so rewarding, isn't
it, to see that. It's incredible. Yeah, it's
absolutely fantastic. You want to explain a little
bit? We're doing a level two session at the moment.
I know we've got one, another one coming in June,
actually. So if you want to get a part of our
training, then we've got a level two training
coming up in June. But we're doing one at the
moment. Do you want to explain a little bit about
what it's been like for us as directors of this
to see the impact like live and to see the enthusiasm
from people that have taken this course? a little
bit emotional actually I'm not going to lie because
I think you know we started this and then you
know we spoke to a few people and some people
had already been doing something similar but
hadn't really created a structure and then you
know we've got our level one beginners training
online which anyone can access and then our level
two though has been a breath of fresh air it's
something like it being live isn't it and seeing
the chat and having them come up on video if
they want to and share their ideas yeah we've
we've had like what 50 about 50 people yeah um
attending live which is fantastic because you
know there are replays so if people can't make
it but what a difference it makes when you come
live you know lots of people asking questions
which is great for us because you know as a new
therapy we need those questions and we and you
know quite often we do have the answers sometimes
we don't and that's okay for and that's good
for us to consider but the people that are coming
to these trainings the ideas they have the respect
they have for their learners is just fantastic
and everyone is just really invested yeah and
the comments that people that people have made
about how much progress they've seen or you know
they've just taken things back to basic and you
know doing life -changing things for these learners
so learners that have never visited a group area
before that have then come on over on their own
terms learners that have never spoken before
that are now saying words you know nude life
-changing things and yeah for us as creators
we've got there's no there's nothing better than
that even if it just impacted our classrooms
it would have been worth it but the fact that
it could impact other people around the world
is just is massive And I think also, I think
I'm just going to toot our own horn here because
I think it also shows that our training is working
because, you know, especially this level two,
it's a four week course. And I mean, we did week
two last week and the people that were talking
about the progress that they'd already seen from
just doing level one and two weeks of level two,
you know, and actually like the progress that
they're already seeing. And I think actually,
no, we are. I think it gives me confidence that
we're also presenting it in a way that people
understand. It's digestible and it's accessible.
And, you know, because we know what we're doing.
We've written this and we're implementing it
in our practice. It's a different way of explaining
it so that other people could implement it, isn't
it? Yeah, it's true. Other people implement it.
And that's really hard. I think sometimes I think
it's that. But you want to make sure that people
do it correctly and don't try and have, you know,
that control and compliance, that it is very
person led, person centered. And I think the
comments from the people on our course is just,
it's shown that it is working. It's working in
schools. Like you say, I'm not going to say all
across the country. It's across the world. Yeah,
lots of different people from around the world,
which is, yeah. Just incredible. And I'm really
proud. I'm proud of us. Yeah, I'm proud of it
too. I'm incredibly proud of it, actually. I've
created a lot of things in my time, but I am
incredibly proud of this. I do think the impact
that this is going to have on, like I said, not
just the speech and language therapists, which
is what we started it for, but actually what
we started as a standalone session, actually,
unknowingly, has just been a whole philosophy
on how to run a classroom and the impact of that.
Yeah, I'm incredibly proud of that. As Sammy
said, we've got level one available at the moment,
which is a one hour pre -recorded course that
you can watch at your own leisure. So that's
on the website. That's available now. You can
start that at any time. We've also got level
two courses that are live coming out sporadically
throughout the year. We've got our next one is
in June. It's four weeks over June. So yeah,
and that's available now. That's £60 per person
for that four week, one hour. course. So that's
four hours in total. And it really is a fantastic
way of asking questions, sharing ideas, building
community, building confidence in actually planning
for and implementing this system within your
class for your learners. You know, it's all well
and good watching my videos or watching Samuel's
explanations on social media, but it's not personalized.
It's not individualized for your class, your
learners, your dynamic, your staff ratios and
your classroom and all of those dynamics. And
it's so important that we consider those things.
that's what level two is about it's about taking
our structure and putting it actually in your
room for your learners and making that work and
working that out together and yeah like we said
there's been um i think there was 58 people signed
up to this one in um march and april and yeah
it's been a fantastic community to share those
ideas and and bounce off each other it's it's
been fantastic actually I say it's one hour it's
actually an hour and a half because it it always
bleeds over because there's so many fantastic
questions and comments and yeah people have really
got on board which is just brilliant is that
level one and level two what is next for rise
therapy what also are we working on so I feel
like one of the questions that has seems to be
coming up a lot I'm getting a lot of messages
from people asking about the research and sort
of like what's the theory we know what's your
theory what's your research and As Jordan and
I have stated, we started this, we launched this
in September and it is still developing because,
and our research is just what we're doing currently
in our own classroom. We're working very hard
to gather videos, research, data, assessment,
like we're gathering it all from other people
and us as well. That's what our Facebook group
is all about actually, is gathering that research,
everything. I mean, obviously our programme is
heavily based on... all current research already
that has been going on for decades so it is rooted
in good evidence practice which gave us the confidence
to start you know before we had our rise for
specific specific evidence um but yeah go on
how are we uh what are we doing with that so
we are hoping to well i don't want to put a date
on it really for level three just yet but we'll
be focusing more about how rise happens throughout
every aspect of our of our day how it's not just
how we don't have it doesn't have to just be
one session and like just be structured in as
a session how you can make it more fluid I'd
say like throughout your day throughout your
practice even if you're on a one -to -one basis
how you can implement it supplement it for things
for like daily tasks and support personal care
we'll get into a bit more detail on that we've
got loads of videos so we've been recording loads
of videos working with loads of different learners
I've got videos with PMLD teenagers I've got
videos with early years minimally speaking and
non -speaking learners I've got learners that
have been expelled from settings that are a huge
range of needs and learners and abilities that
i'm using rise with so that you can actually
see how it works in real life context if it's
all well and good take oh you just do this and
this and this actually seeing the raw footage
of one of my sessions or lots of my sessions
actually throughout the week you know throughout
the course we'll be watching lots of sessions
from me and talking about what did i miss What
did I notice? Why did I make that decision? Why
did that learner react that way? What could have
been done? And we're really analysing this footage
and then also giving you the opportunity to do
the same in your practice, to record your sessions,
to get feedback from this very safe group and
us, really honestly, really supportively, making
sure that our practice is the best and most high
quality it can be. absolutely that and then level
four yeah they're level four yeah but yeah with
level three I think it's just so it's that almost
like fine -tuning isn't it and it's like we can
provide very like support supportive makes it
so personal when it's recorded isn't it because
we can literally see your learners how they're
reacting how they're communicating anything that
was missed anything that was seen you know yeah
and I always think how often as well do we record
sessions and then have as teachers have time
to go back and watch that whole session and unpick
it and really look into it because with all good
intentions I know that you know full -time teachers
what they'll have good intentions but actually
the time to sit and do that and that's what this
is about and like you say doing it in a supportive
way and actually with a group of professionals
who have already done level one and level two
who are highly invested in rise and then providing
and like just fine -tuning fine -tuning our practice
and actually you know it's that's what we're
always here for I think and that's what I'm really
finding the people that are coming to our sessions
and who are coming to our training are open to
that feedback you know we're not we're not take
no one's taking offense to anything no real asking
for feedback too like it's very much yeah absolutely
um it's super important yeah and then i'm sharing
are not perfect that's the whole point i share
videos where they went disastrously wrong and
we talk about why that happened what i missed
what what why was the environment the issue why
was me the issue why was the planning this you
know what could have happened first because I
think actually we learned so much from those
situations just as much as the ones that have
gone right so yeah I share it all there's nothing
there's nothing to hide on that and often I get
asked can we see your actual sessions your actual
class you know finally I've got permission not
to share on social media but to share through
these courses with these children and and the
I'm really excited to share those with um our
risers through the level three course because
they can actually see my realistic sessions and
reflect in that way i think that'll be really
impactful and then level four we're planning
a full research project yeah case studies yeah
case studies um so you will become a practitioner
of rise you will be able to teach Raya sessions
after this, you will become one of us. After
level four, during level four, really, you get
to select a... specific topic of your choice
I'm currently doing one at the moment around
PMLD using RISE for PMLD and the impact of that
the adaptations that need to be made how to ensure
consent is a really important one with PMLD that
can be a little bit more complicated to work
out so that is the current research project that
I'm doing at the moment and we've also had interest
in using RISE with dementia or Alzheimer's patients
you know Of all ages, using it with babies, how
does that work? Using it in the home with parents
and siblings, neurotypical siblings, or one -on
-one, you know, you could choose whatever topic
you want, using it with visually impaired children,
whatever your interest is, whatever the cohort
you work with, whatever your key worker child
is, I don't know, whatever your child is, you
know, use that as your research base. And yeah,
they'll have a full folder of... information
to work out and work through and data together
all throughout is the majority of the year and
yeah we guide you every step of the way with
monthly and monthly meetings and yeah by the
end you'll be one of us you'll be able to teach
for us if you want to or you'll be a very highly
advanced rise practitioner because you've contributed
to the research of the program and developing
it in other areas so i'm really excited about
level four personally On PMOD and using it in
the home, we've also got another kind of add
-on. It's not level one to four, which is the
main core structure, but we've got little add
-on courses also in the works, haven't we? Do
you want to explain a little bit about what you're
working on? Yeah. So I'm currently working on,
and I'm going to call it a level, it's almost
like separate from those levels one to four,
like you just said, but I've called it a level
one parent. pre -recorded session and it's going
to look very different for many reasons um and
actually i'm talking to a few parents to also
get some feedback from this because as professionals
we automatically know what you know certain things
certain expectations certain buzzwords and actually
we can't assume that all our parents are gonna
be able to watch watch this training and understand
exactly what we mean and how to implement it
in their home So I'm breaking it down for parents
so that parents can watch and it will include
things to use in the home. We're really, this
is another thing to add at Rise, we're really
keen on using low cost items and or things in
the home, you know. And so. You'll see a couple
of videos coming out as well from myself, similar
to Jordan's Rise videos, but I'm going to have
a focus on how to do it in the home and just
trying to use as many resources we can that we
have lying around or that you might typically
be able to get your hands on. It's so exciting
to me, like the idea of doing Rise in the kitchen,
Rise in the bath, Rise in the garden. rising
on the sofa like that's so exciting to me because
it makes it so accessible like what does rising
look like on the sofa with cushions like it's
totally possible and I'm really excited to develop
that so that parents feel like they don't have
to buy all this stuff that we just have in school
absolutely they've got it all there it's like
to just take our structure and put it in what
their home where they've already got do it alongside
siblings as well I know you want to talk about
that absolutely yeah and I don't want You know,
the last thing I want is for parents to feel
like, say, overwhelmed with loads of information
and feel like they've got lots to do. So I'm
going to break it down into hopefully an easy
to digest, accessible, pre -recorded training
for parents and how we can include siblings.
And I know there's a lot of households with multiple
like. siblings who are neurodivergent and also
some who you may have one neurodivergent child
and then neurotypical children or you may have
one child and how you can support them also I've
got a bit on pets and how pets can get involved
as well because why not yeah there's going to
be lots of aspects and the difference is also
like it's probably going to be with one adult
as well so it's like how to manage that how what
you need to be what you need to be doing And
I think one of the things I really want to focus
on for parents is, like you say, one adult. If
you have one adult, three children and a dog
running around, actually for yourself, how to
manage your feelings of probably overwhelm, because
I'm not a parent. I can't imagine. what like
some of your days in the summer holidays might
be feeling like um but we are going to get this
out before the summer holidays so if parents
want to um get our pre -recorded training so
that they can implement it over the summer it's
something to do it doesn't cost anything you
can do it in your garden you can do it in the
children's bedroom you can do it in the living
room in the kitchen So considering how you can
then come up with ideas for like the plan, you
know, you're not going to be doing planning and
such, but maybe an activity. How am I going to
plan this activity? What can I do? Oh, actually,
it would be really nice to make cakes, but how
can I make this accessible for all of my children,
et cetera? So that will be coming probably, I
would say June, I'd say June time. That's exciting.
And then so whilst you're working on that, and
I love that it's pre -recorded so that parents
can just watch at their leisure, little snippets
if they want to, the whole thing if they want
to. I love that. I'm working on PMLD specific
training, which again is another add -on that's
not part of the one to four, because I'm very
aware through my work with the research around
PMLD, there are a lot of adaptations that need
to be made. To be fair, the structure stays the
same, but there is lots of adaptations on. How
do we know that they genuinely want to join the
shared experience? When do we make that decision
to wheel them on over to the shared experience?
When do we stop that? How do we keep them regulated?
How do we know they don't want to join? You know,
all of those things. We're, well, I'm working
out. We're both working out together. And then
we're creating this course all about, yeah, adaptations
on, okay, so yeah, you've done level one, two,
maybe even three. But you've got these learners
that need something slightly different, some
slight adaptations. What's that look like? Well,
this little course will be a lovely add -on to
answer all those questions. And I'm really excited
to do that because, again, it was on our tick
sheet, right? We wanted it to be inclusive for
parents. We wanted it to be inclusive for PMLD,
non -advocate learners. We wanted it to be really
based around consent. And I'm really pleased
that those courses kind of offer both of those
things. It's really exciting. Absolutely. And
we've got so many avenues that we can explore.
Like I know we've discussed before, you know,
hearing impaired, visually impaired. There are
so many. We want to make Rise accessible for
everyone. And like you said, the structure is
always going to stay the same. The core values
are always the same. But there will be adaptations
throughout to suit the needs of each individual.
I think that's the point, right? That is what
makes it neuroaffirming that we are taking a
structure that can be, that is structured. That
can be so flexible to mold around the individual,
to make them feel included, to include them,
to help them to feel belonging. Here's neuroinferming
practice. That is exactly what was missing in
everything we were using before, is that we were
getting them to fit around our mold, whereas
actually we've created a really flexible, stretchy
structure. that can be molded around what we
need, the environment that we've got. I've used
it in classrooms with 12 kids. I've used it in
massive classrooms with one child. It works.
It's just a structured mold that can go to whatever
you're using. I suppose on that, if people are
listening to this and they think, yep, sounds
good. How do I get started? Where do they go?
What do they do? What's the best thing to get
started? So we have our website, risetherapysessions
.com with free downloads, free planning templates,
free like handouts, because I know a few people
have said, oh, I really want to do this, but
I need something to take to my head teacher.
We've got that all on there and that's all free.
We've also got the, like say, level one pre -recorded
training. We've got level two live training coming
up in June and it's on. every Wednesday from
7 to 8 throughout the whole of June. We've also
got our private Facebook group and we also are
on TikTok and on Instagram at rise underscore
sessions. Yeah, I looked it up actually because
I didn't know. Rise underscore sessions. Well,
we share about five videos a week on there. So
yeah, all active and all good. There's lots of
answered questions, lots of examples. you know
take a look you know jordan's got some fantastic
videos about how she uses it with her core word
program i'm trying to do um some more videos
i've got one coming out tomorrow which is really
exciting my first one for um for a garden based
garden based at home there's lots of answered
questions and if you ever have any questions
please do ask send a message to the rise to the
rise instagram or tiktok or on the group and
it's really great because quite a few people
ask similar questions and then we can make make
videos to answer these so that more people Yeah,
because you won't be the only one with that question
for sure. I will leave all the links that Sammy's
just shared down below. So if you're intrigued
to learn more, then it will all be down below.
Or yeah, absolutely ask either one of us questions
on our private stuff or on the Rise groups. Absolutely
fine. Amazing. Thank you so much, Sammy. It's
really nice to share about this. Like we said,
we're so proud of it that it felt so wrong that,
you know, I have mentioned it on this podcast,
to be fair, with a few different speech and language
therapists that are excited about it and that
are using it. But not enough and not with me
if it felt wrong. So I'm really excited to have
this on here now that people can learn more about
it, learn more about our idea behind it. You
know, it wasn't just, oh, yeah, let's just create
this thing. It really was based in a real need
that we were seeing in the cast and what that
was. Yeah, and the impact that we've had on it
is just really exciting. So, yeah, thank you
so much for sharing this. Hopefully people at
home, parents, speech and language therapists,
occupational therapists, teachers, TAs, everybody
listening to this can just mull on. I wonder
if this could be useful for... a transition that
we're struggling with or supporting their communication
or supporting them to join a group activity and
kind of relate to their peers a little bit better
so many different benefits to rise that um i'm
sure will have a really positive impact on on
you and so that you can follow something structured
and have a bit of a plan and then for the children
that you're working with as well thank you so
much for having me on it's always a pleasure
until next time Number four coming soon. Thank
you, Jordan.