WEBVTT

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Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education

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teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything

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communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson

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ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged

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4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in

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the field answering your questions and sharing

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our knowledge and experience working alongside

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our beautiful young people. Let's get started.

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Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory

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Classroom podcast. My name is Jordan and today

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I am joined by Claire, the founder of the SEN

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Experts. Hi Claire. How are you? Oh good, thank

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you. First of all, are you all right to explain

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a little bit about what the SEN Expert as a company

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does and who you serve? Yes. So the SEN Expert

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is an educational consultancy firm that focuses

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solely on special educational needs. We help

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a whole range of people in the SEN space, most

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importantly our families. So we help families,

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children, young people navigate the tricky world

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of SEN, be that looking at EHCPs, going all the

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way through to appeal or working with school

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when relationships have been a bit tricky, for

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example. And we also work with schools themselves.

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So we offer training and support for schools

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around all different issues to do with special

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educational needs. And we also work with SENCOs,

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be a SENCO that's new to the job or someone that's

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been doing it for 30 odd years, helping them

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and coaching them through, again, navigating

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a very, shall we say, fluid system that is constantly

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changing. We also work with professionals in

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a couple of capacities. So we work with other

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specialists in the field of SEN. So we work with

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speech and language. therapists companies for

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example providing them an understanding of how

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they can write really good evidence for the HCP

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and we also work with corporates and we offer

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our services as an employee benefit so there's

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really kind of shocking statistics around the

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amount of parents that have to leave their once

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loved careers because they are attending appointments

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with their child or their child might be having

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a tough time at school um and it usually ends

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up with them quitting or ending up being fired

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so we work with corporates for our services as

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an employee benefit so before they end up losing

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a job that they loved we step in and hopefully

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fix all the problems so yeah that's kind of what

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we do in a nutshell so who is making up your

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of the SEN expert. Are you all special education

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teachers? What are your backgrounds? I'm guessing

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you're wearing a lot of hats with all of that.

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report so yeah let me i don't know if you just

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kind of let us in on who you are and what the

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company um so i set up the scn expert and it

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was just me five years ago we're now a team of

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25 and the team are from all different areas

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of the scn space which is what makes i think

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work really interesting but also we're able to

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tackle quite tricky and diverse problems. So

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we have people that are SEN lawyers, for example,

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we have head teachers, we have deputy head teachers,

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we've got teaching assistants, people that work

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for local authorities, therapists. And the way

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that they work with us is that they use the SEN

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expert as a means to kind of supplement their

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existing career, which works fantastically for

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us because we have people who are living, breathing

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SEN in schools and then they're working with

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us as well. So we're quite an interesting bunch,

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I think. their knowledge up to date as well they're

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on the ground it's always going to be realistic

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you know advice as far as that goes because they're

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living it and breathing it anyway yeah no and

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it makes for like a really kind of exciting working

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environment i suppose it's a very handy hive

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mind to have when you've got a question like

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sen when we can like we meet um Each week, and

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yeah, it's like, oh, I work for a local authority.

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What would the school's perspective be on this?

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And then a deputy head is able to say, well,

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we would look at it this way, or a speech and

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language therapist could chip in and say something

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different. So it's a mixed bag, but it's a bag

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that is able to offer all sorts of different

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kind of support. So needed right now. I bet you

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are incredibly busy. Yes, we are a little bit

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busier. That's amazing. But 25, you know, shared

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between 25, it is possible to be able to help.

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What pushed you in particular? You said you started.

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What pushed you to start this consultancy work?

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And what did your career look like before the

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SEN Expert? So I have always been in education.

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So I started out as an art teacher. So I trained

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and moved to London. And my first ever day, the

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deputy head was like, oh, you're not going to

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teach that much art. You're going to have a year

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seven teacher. They've all got a very mixed range

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of very complex special needs. And they're not

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allowed outside that room. And you're going to

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teach them everything. So I had one day of SEN

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training on my PGCE that everybody gets. So it

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was a bit of a baptism of fire, but it really

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kind of gave me the fire as opposed to SEN. That's

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where it all began. And then I have skipped around

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all over the place in the UK and in the US working

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in education, but always having a sort of special

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needs focus on things. So I've been, I used to

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be an SA and advisor for an academy chain. I

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was deputy head for a while in a school in the

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Southwest. In London, I worked as assistant principal

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in charge of inclusion and safeguarding. So I've

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always had. an SEN focus and always been a SENCO

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here, there and everywhere. And I got to the

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point where I was getting really fed up with

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kind of reductive thinking around SEN. It was

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like, oh, we can't do that for that child because

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then everybody will want it. And I'm like, oh,

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we can't do the right thing by one child because,

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oh, then we'll have to do the right thing by

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every child. Oh, that sounds awful. I was the

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annoying person that would argue about... what

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I felt to be unfair exclusions or provisions

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not being put in place. I used to march down

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to the local authority office and sit in the

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reception and wait for the caseworkers to come

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for their lunch and be like, oh, hello, good

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to see you here. So I was on the one side, you

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could look at it as being very passionate. On

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the other side, I was a thorn in the side of

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people who maybe weren't as inclusively minded

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as I was around education. So that's why I decided

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to set up the SCN Expert because too often I've

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sat. in meetings with families and I really want

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to tell them the honest truth and I can't because

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of the institution I'm working for or the bureaucracy

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around it or something. So setting up independently

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meant that we can be completely honest, open

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and frank and that's the way we work. So everything

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that we do with our families is the God's honest

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truth and there's no agendas. I think our families

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really like that, that it's kind of like this

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is how... this is how the cookie's going to crumble

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and this is how we're going to do it and we're

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going to tackle it this way and the other. Although

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starting from an art teacher perspective seems

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a bit off, I think it feeds really nicely into

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what I do now because we come up with all sorts

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of creative solutions to some really quite tricky

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problems. And I think what SEN, especially in

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mainstream education, what SEN needs... is that

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kind of thinking out of the box and as the years

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have gone by our education system I think has

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got more and more the box is getting much smaller

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and yeah that's why I stepped out of that sort

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of area and then set up so I could help in a

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different way and we've helped a huge amount

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of families huge amount of schools and had real

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sort of success stories when I was in a school

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I found it often that we would be trying so hard

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for the best for the child and we'd never get

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to a conclusion that was positive. It would be

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an exclusion or it would be that the placement

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couldn't meet need or whatever. So yeah, I just,

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I enjoy the feeling of actually being able to

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help now. I can completely relate to that, that

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by working independently, you always have more

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control to be able to make more change and maybe

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make more change for more people as well. You

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can advocate, you know, when you're a teacher,

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you can advocate for your 10 pupils or however

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many you've got and you can do your best. But

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there is so much red tape and there are so many

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people above you making decisions. on your behalf,

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that you've only got so much control. It can

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become incredibly frustrating. And I do think

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that ultimately for SEND teachers, I often find

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that's actually where the burnout comes from.

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So many people that aren't in SEM provision think

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that burnout comes from, I don't know, behaviour

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or whatever, but it just doesn't. It comes from

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the emotional turmoil of constantly advocating

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for your students and not actually having the

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full control to actually make a difference. So

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I can really relate to you. in wanting to be

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independent, to be able to actually make that

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difference, not just for your class, actually

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for children all over the world, it sounds like.

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You recently spoke about the white paper and

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that's something that really made me want to

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get you on this podcast. I wanted to anyway,

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but it really made me want to, that you have

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been speaking to government officials about the

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white paper. You know, there's so much confusion

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around it and I just would love, one, to hear

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what you initially... thought about it when you

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read it and then also did you get any clarity

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from it what were your questions what were the

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answers and then what do you feel about it now

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as far as you know the changes that are going

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to be made in the future yes it has been a busy

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time with uh with the white paper the first and

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I think most important thing to share with your

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listeners is that there's been a lot of anxiety

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around the white paper but currently It is just

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a proposal of changes and nothing has become

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law yet. And there's still an opportunity for

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parents, families, schools, whoever, to respond

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to the consultation. The consultation's got 39

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questions in it, looking at different areas of

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the white paper. So there's still time for change

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and there's still time to fight for what you

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believe is right. When the white paper was released,

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it was a long time coming. And I knew it wasn't

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going to be all kind of bells and whistles and

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a perfect solution because the SEN system, as

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you know, is broken and it has been getting progressively

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worse over the last 10 years. The SEN Code of

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Practice, when it came out in 2014, was actually

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a really positive bit of legislation. It was

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really supportive. It offered support to children

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without diagnosis. And then the issue, I think,

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why it all fell to pieces was it wasn't properly

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funded by central government. So you have this

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very open... broad reaching law, it's given to

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the local authorities and says, off you go, go

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and make that happen, but we're not going to

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give you enough money. And then parents aren't

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able to go and have an argument with central

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government about their funding decisions, but

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they can certainly have an argument with local

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authorities. So you've had this 10 years of kind

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of unravelling where the law is offering quite

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a lot, but it's not being fully funded. And I

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think at some point that had to stop because

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the amount of local authorities that are close

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to bankruptcy the amount of families that are

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pulling their hair out because they are saying

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well this is the law and you're not being lawful

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and then and local authorities in many cases

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just they just aren't but yeah that's the way

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to hold them to account and there's not enough

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money to make the law function so i see where

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the white paper is coming from i think it's a

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money saving exercise um push everything back

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into mainstream education and we can save money

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on expensive SEN school places or really high

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-costed provision. That is a lovely idea if it

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is fully funded. We can't just have a repeat

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performance of what we had last time because

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we'll just be sat here waiting for 10 years and

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then the same thing will happen again. I think

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there are strengths in the white paper. The experts

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at Handpiece is very interesting. So that's where

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they are. going to fund specialist therapists

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to be on hand so that schools can call them to

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have an EP assessment, for example, or speech

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and language therapy, whereas now you're waiting

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months and months and months and there's not

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that direct link from schools to just call up

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and say, I need help. That's positive. No, that

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is really positive and so needed to have that.

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Is there enough therapists and educational psychologists

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in this country to fulfil that need? Is their

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training also being funded? Surely, you know,

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that's wonderful that they're saying that they're

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accessible. And that's amazing. And that, of

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course, is so needed. We're desperate for that.

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I mean, I'm in Cornwall. They're so unattainable.

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And I'm sure they are across the rest of the

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country as well. Is training included? Is support

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in getting more educational psychologists? I

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guess this is the thing. So there's lots of proposals

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in the white paper that, in theory, are good

00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.710
ideas. But they have to be backed up by... the

00:12:42.710 --> 00:12:44.769
financials and that's the bit that makes me nervous

00:12:44.769 --> 00:12:46.950
when I was talking to George Gould I brought

00:12:46.950 --> 00:12:48.850
this up I said it's all very nice that you're

00:12:48.850 --> 00:12:51.389
going to do all this stuff in mainstream schools

00:12:51.389 --> 00:12:53.629
you're going to build all these bases you're

00:12:53.629 --> 00:12:57.049
going to train all the teachers but where's where's

00:12:57.049 --> 00:12:59.450
the money coming from to make this actually happen

00:12:59.450 --> 00:13:02.879
though they have been vaguely generous with the

00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:05.080
funding that they have provided. So they've provided,

00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:07.700
I think it's 1 .6 billion to go to schools to

00:13:07.700 --> 00:13:10.100
help them implement elements of the white paper,

00:13:10.220 --> 00:13:13.159
sort of build these bases. They also have separate

00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.779
funding for the experts at hand piece. It just

00:13:16.779 --> 00:13:19.460
simply isn't enough. I sat down and, very sad,

00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:21.379
worked out how many schools had in the country

00:13:21.379 --> 00:13:23.620
and divided it all up. And I said to her, I think,

00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:26.519
if we look at the money, in theory, what you're

00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:31.200
proposing is £400 -ish for each SEN child over

00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.259
three years. That's what you're giving them.

00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:36.000
But that, to me... Not even a day for a month,

00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:39.480
is it? That doesn't equate to, you know, you

00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:42.429
can have... a really robust package of EP support

00:13:42.429 --> 00:13:45.370
for this child to help them navigate whatever

00:13:45.370 --> 00:13:48.450
they're going through. A lot of the white paper

00:13:48.450 --> 00:13:52.389
stuff for me is it's a nice idea in theory, but

00:13:52.389 --> 00:13:54.870
the foundations aren't strong enough. There's

00:13:54.870 --> 00:13:57.250
not enough funding. An awful lot of pressure

00:13:57.250 --> 00:13:59.450
is going to be put on mainstream schools. That

00:13:59.450 --> 00:14:02.250
would be... a challenge if our education system

00:14:02.250 --> 00:14:04.570
wasn't in good nick our education system's on

00:14:04.570 --> 00:14:07.210
its knees everyone as in teachers is leaving

00:14:07.210 --> 00:14:09.570
and we're suddenly saying oh look why don't you

00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:11.490
do all this extra stuff and we're going to give

00:14:11.490 --> 00:14:13.529
you a little bit of money to make it happen I

00:14:13.529 --> 00:14:17.409
think training to do it with I think it works

00:14:17.409 --> 00:14:19.509
out for teachers about a day's worth of training

00:14:19.509 --> 00:14:23.690
and I think there are positives in it but those

00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:25.309
positives they just don't have the substance

00:14:25.309 --> 00:14:29.080
to them and that's what makes me concerned about

00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:31.559
what SEN will look like going forward. Also,

00:14:31.659 --> 00:14:34.100
and it's really important for parents to be aware

00:14:34.100 --> 00:14:36.179
of this, especially if they're considering responding

00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:39.659
to the consultation, is that at the moment, what

00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:42.480
makes our SEN system great is that SEN code of

00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.080
practice, the law that sits behind it. And if

00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:47.940
you look at the white paper, There was an awful

00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:50.720
lot of legal rights being taken away and not

00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:53.259
a whole lot of them being put back in. So if

00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:56.299
you remove a child's legal rights, then they're

00:14:56.299 --> 00:14:58.700
not going to have, or parents and families aren't

00:14:58.700 --> 00:15:01.120
going to have the opportunity to go to appeal

00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.419
to the greatest extent they need to. It'll be

00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:06.460
a lot more parents versus schools in arguments

00:15:06.460 --> 00:15:09.379
over things. And rather than the tribunals process,

00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:11.220
which is what we use at the moment, there's a

00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:13.980
lot more focus on... parents if they're not happy

00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:15.960
with things to use the school's complaints procedure

00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:19.740
so that again is just more work for schools and

00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:22.799
also the whole way that we make education great

00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:24.899
is having really good strong working relationships

00:15:24.899 --> 00:15:27.740
between the child the parent and the school so

00:15:27.740 --> 00:15:29.820
if you're saying oh the only way you can get

00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:31.860
the right provision for your child is by complaining

00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:33.639
to the school the people you have to work with

00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.620
every day it just isn't a sort of robust system

00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:40.080
of kind of recourse it's just like okay well

00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:41.919
if you don't like it go and complain to the people

00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:44.340
that have made it when i can imagine the school

00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:46.639
the best schools will be trying their best with

00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.759
very little and ultimately then hands might be

00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:52.740
tied as far as funding and or training or understanding

00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:55.919
or bespoke rooms or services might go because

00:15:56.620 --> 00:15:59.019
They can't just make things happen out of thin

00:15:59.019 --> 00:16:01.200
air, like just because a parent complains about

00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.679
it, even if the school is in agreement that that

00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:05.860
is needed. I'm sure the school would be in agreement

00:16:05.860 --> 00:16:07.720
that that was needed. It would certainly make

00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:09.580
the school's life easier if they had more support.

00:16:09.580 --> 00:16:12.399
The tribunal's support process will still exist.

00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.919
They just will have different rights. So at the

00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:17.360
moment, they can order a local authority to place

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.559
a child in a specific school, for example. And

00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:21.279
in the white paper, it's proposing that they

00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:23.179
don't have that power. They can suggest that

00:16:23.179 --> 00:16:24.960
the local authority change their mind, which

00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.500
is a bit of a... watering down in my view but

00:16:27.500 --> 00:16:30.799
I think it's really tricky with the white paper

00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.759
because in a theory there's some really positive

00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:36.539
stuff in it but if you don't do things properly

00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:38.139
they're not going to work and that's what makes

00:16:38.139 --> 00:16:41.039
me nervous about it and I think that's what makes

00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:44.059
a lot of parents nervous is because currently

00:16:44.059 --> 00:16:45.620
the only thing that they've got that makes me

00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:47.840
feel safe are the legal protections of their

00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.460
child's EHCP so if we're going to take that away

00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:54.110
and put in a new system That new system has to

00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:56.549
be really robust, really well funded and build

00:16:56.549 --> 00:16:59.529
confidence in these families because they don't

00:16:59.529 --> 00:17:00.929
have confidence in the system because they've

00:17:00.929 --> 00:17:02.809
been treated so badly for the last 10 years.

00:17:03.070 --> 00:17:05.630
I almost wish we'd have some kind of, I don't

00:17:05.630 --> 00:17:07.769
know, magic wand to look forward in 10 years

00:17:07.769 --> 00:17:09.690
time and be like, oh look, actually having this

00:17:09.690 --> 00:17:13.170
mainstream focus did work and this is how, you

00:17:13.170 --> 00:17:15.430
know, the positive ways of getting there because

00:17:15.430 --> 00:17:18.190
wouldn't it be great if it... if it could work.

00:17:18.289 --> 00:17:20.269
But at the minute, everyone is so anxious because

00:17:20.269 --> 00:17:22.170
they're just clinging on to what they know. If

00:17:22.170 --> 00:17:24.009
you have a child with complex needs, you want

00:17:24.009 --> 00:17:25.829
them to have an EHP because it's a legal protection.

00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:28.490
You want them to go to special school because

00:17:28.490 --> 00:17:29.650
you know that's where they're going to get the

00:17:29.650 --> 00:17:31.369
best provision because they haven't got it in

00:17:31.369 --> 00:17:34.890
mainstream. And I can see how the government

00:17:34.890 --> 00:17:37.789
have these kind of aspirational ideas, but they're

00:17:37.789 --> 00:17:40.750
singing to an audience that doesn't trust them

00:17:40.750 --> 00:17:43.009
because of how they've been treated in the past.

00:17:43.089 --> 00:17:45.990
And yeah, for my slightly cynical way of looking

00:17:45.990 --> 00:17:48.849
at it. To make things work, you've got to fund

00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:51.210
them. And if it's not properly funded, you're

00:17:51.210 --> 00:17:53.069
just reducing legal rights and taking things

00:17:53.069 --> 00:17:55.329
away, not adding to. Yeah, it would be the best

00:17:55.329 --> 00:17:57.150
ideas in the world, couldn't it? But without

00:17:57.150 --> 00:17:59.450
the actual backing to make it actually happen

00:17:59.450 --> 00:18:02.829
and function as you're saying. A lot of things

00:18:02.829 --> 00:18:05.410
that are, which makes me laugh actually, in the

00:18:05.410 --> 00:18:07.509
white paper are just services that they took

00:18:07.509 --> 00:18:12.009
away the last time. Why not? So they're talking

00:18:12.009 --> 00:18:14.569
about having levels of support in school called

00:18:14.569 --> 00:18:16.789
targeted and targeted plus. But when I first

00:18:16.789 --> 00:18:19.089
started as a SENCO, we used to have school action

00:18:19.089 --> 00:18:20.849
and school action plus. I'm like, oh, that sounds

00:18:20.849 --> 00:18:23.509
similar. I wonder why. Oh, it's exactly the same

00:18:23.509 --> 00:18:24.990
thing. I'm just bringing it back and giving it

00:18:24.990 --> 00:18:27.809
a new name. Same with experts at hand. We used

00:18:27.809 --> 00:18:29.970
to have teams of specialists that you would be

00:18:29.970 --> 00:18:31.430
able to call upon as a SENCO and they'd come

00:18:31.430 --> 00:18:34.170
in. So a lot of the bits are dressed up as kind

00:18:34.170 --> 00:18:36.650
of like the positives, the gifts of the white

00:18:36.650 --> 00:18:39.009
paper. are just stuff that was cut and then they're

00:18:39.009 --> 00:18:41.190
bringing it back again. They are bringing it

00:18:41.190 --> 00:18:43.930
back and I really hope that they do. I suppose

00:18:43.930 --> 00:18:46.950
it's worth saying for any anxious parents at

00:18:46.950 --> 00:18:49.150
home listening to this, these changes aren't

00:18:49.150 --> 00:18:50.750
happening overnight and they're not happening

00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:52.230
straight away for your child. Your child will

00:18:52.230 --> 00:18:55.190
not lose their rights overnight. You were explaining

00:18:55.190 --> 00:18:57.650
about the rollout of this because it's happening

00:18:57.650 --> 00:19:00.029
over quite a long time. So it's happening over

00:19:00.029 --> 00:19:06.329
the next 10 years essentially. When I spoke to

00:19:06.329 --> 00:19:08.250
George Goulash, I asked about this. How is it

00:19:08.250 --> 00:19:09.509
going to work? Because you want these things

00:19:09.509 --> 00:19:11.690
to happen, but the existing system is going to

00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:13.369
exist. So there will be a period of time where

00:19:13.369 --> 00:19:15.730
schools are essentially double funded, where

00:19:15.730 --> 00:19:18.309
they'll be getting a child's EHCP funding and

00:19:18.309 --> 00:19:21.269
also this money for the white paper to implement

00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:25.769
new stuff. So they do want it to work in some

00:19:25.769 --> 00:19:27.609
ways. I just think they should have more money.

00:19:28.210 --> 00:19:33.359
So yeah, the idea is that... By 2030, they want

00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.700
to have children that are on existing EHEPs to

00:19:37.700 --> 00:19:41.240
start having their EHEPs reviewed. The children

00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:43.160
that will be reviewed are ones that are at transition

00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:45.920
point. So ones going from primary to secondary

00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.480
or secondary into post -16 college or wherever

00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:53.640
they may go. And at that point in 2030, they

00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.039
will start a period of review. There was an awful

00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:58.220
lot of children in this country with EHCPs. It's

00:19:58.220 --> 00:20:00.119
going to take a hell of a long time to review

00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.759
them. And reviewing them won't be to automatically

00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:05.720
say, oh, we're taking it away from you. It will

00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:10.160
be to review the EHCP in line with these new

00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:12.700
packages of support they put together. So currently,

00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:14.880
if you or I were to have an EHCP, it would be

00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.859
very personal to us. So all the provisions would

00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:20.299
be recommended by specialists that had met us,

00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:22.809
assessed us. We could put our EHCPs in, they

00:20:22.809 --> 00:20:24.930
look very, very different, even if we had the

00:20:24.930 --> 00:20:28.430
same need in the same school, etc. What the government

00:20:28.430 --> 00:20:30.170
are proposing is that there's going to be seven

00:20:30.170 --> 00:20:33.470
packages of support. And if you have an EHCP,

00:20:33.690 --> 00:20:35.069
you would have, I don't know, package number

00:20:35.069 --> 00:20:37.170
one, because that would most meet your needs.

00:20:37.910 --> 00:20:39.930
If you have complex needs or mixed needs, you

00:20:39.930 --> 00:20:41.589
could have a bit of package number one and a

00:20:41.589 --> 00:20:44.170
bit of package number two. And that is... what

00:20:44.170 --> 00:20:46.589
they will be reviewing. Where do we put these

00:20:46.589 --> 00:20:49.150
children? What package do they sit under? And

00:20:49.150 --> 00:20:52.230
then if there is a issue or the child doesn't

00:20:52.230 --> 00:20:54.769
meet a certain package or any of the packages,

00:20:54.849 --> 00:20:56.190
that might be when they're saying, okay, well,

00:20:56.250 --> 00:20:58.569
maybe they should be not having the HCP because

00:20:58.569 --> 00:21:01.089
their needs are not at such a high level and

00:21:01.089 --> 00:21:04.329
they would go down, not down, they would... We're

00:21:04.329 --> 00:21:06.309
given something called an ISP, which is an individual

00:21:06.309 --> 00:21:09.250
support plan, which basically exists already.

00:21:09.390 --> 00:21:11.690
It's like an IEP that we have in school. The

00:21:11.690 --> 00:21:13.549
only difference with it is that children will

00:21:13.549 --> 00:21:16.650
have a legal right to have one. So if parents

00:21:16.650 --> 00:21:19.630
request it and they have a level of need that

00:21:19.630 --> 00:21:23.410
is appropriate, then they will have an ISP. Whereas

00:21:23.410 --> 00:21:25.730
at the moment, IEPs just tend to be bits of paper

00:21:25.730 --> 00:21:28.670
that schools write provisions on. They're supposed

00:21:28.670 --> 00:21:30.250
to get ready for meetings. Some schools are really

00:21:30.250 --> 00:21:31.890
good and they've got really thorough, robust...

00:21:33.209 --> 00:21:35.990
individual education plans, but others, it's

00:21:35.990 --> 00:21:38.690
just a piece of paper. So that's a positive,

00:21:38.789 --> 00:21:41.089
that that's going to get a bit more robust. That's

00:21:41.089 --> 00:21:43.430
kind of the trajectory of it, but as you mentioned,

00:21:43.670 --> 00:21:45.349
the most important thing that parents can do

00:21:45.349 --> 00:21:48.809
now is not sort of settle and be like, okay,

00:21:48.809 --> 00:21:49.990
well, this is the right paper, it's going to

00:21:49.990 --> 00:21:54.309
happen. The consultation closes in May. So yeah,

00:21:54.349 --> 00:21:56.150
the most important thing for parents to think

00:21:56.150 --> 00:22:00.759
about is... protesting, making noise around this,

00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.240
so making sure that they have their voices heard

00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:05.119
around what they feel is right for their children.

00:22:05.299 --> 00:22:06.839
And there's an amazing group called Save Our

00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:08.839
Children's Rights. They are on Instagram, they've

00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:12.200
got a website, and it's a whole range of different

00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:14.440
people from the SEN space. So we're involved,

00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.539
especially these jungles involved, for example,

00:22:16.539 --> 00:22:19.000
and they're organising protests across the country

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.579
to really kind of raise awareness around how,

00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:24.119
if we're going to change the SEN system, fine,

00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:27.319
but let's change it for good and change it to

00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:29.880
something that's fun. as opposed to trying to

00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.200
save money trying to reduce legal rights or try

00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:36.380
and make it so that it's not so much a supportive

00:22:36.380 --> 00:22:38.400
process but one that parents are again having

00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.180
to fight for so yeah I would keep an eye out

00:22:41.180 --> 00:22:43.359
for those events even if you can't go along it's

00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:45.380
worth you know just talking to people about it

00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:48.140
I think that's what's really handy for people

00:22:48.140 --> 00:22:50.500
like me is when parents say oh I don't know I

00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:53.160
told the mums outside school today about what's

00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.420
going on with the white paper or I don't know

00:22:55.420 --> 00:22:57.970
I told the postman about it People need to be

00:22:57.970 --> 00:23:00.349
aware of it and we need to kind of make it something

00:23:00.349 --> 00:23:03.329
that everybody talks about as opposed to, oh,

00:23:03.329 --> 00:23:06.650
my child isn't or doesn't have special educational

00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:08.769
needs, so I don't need to talk about it. And

00:23:08.769 --> 00:23:11.109
that's not the case at all. Inclusion is a huge

00:23:11.109 --> 00:23:13.990
part of the education system as a whole. So if

00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:16.470
you have a child, if your child goes to a school

00:23:16.470 --> 00:23:18.150
that's not inclusive, they're going to be impacted

00:23:18.150 --> 00:23:20.509
by that as well. So it's definitely an everybody

00:23:20.509 --> 00:23:23.369
issue. When the white paper came out, there was...

00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:26.279
a reasonable amount of media attention but it

00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:28.880
was also the same day when Lord what's his name

00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:31.859
Lord Mandelson was arrested so I was like yes

00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:33.160
we're gonna have a media day we're gonna have

00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:34.480
loads of attention everyone's gonna want to know

00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.200
about the white paper and it was just ruined

00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:40.319
by some silly old man it's true though isn't

00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.039
it because so many of the people that are on

00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:44.880
the ground doing the work either as teachers

00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:49.019
in schools or as parents they're the ones that

00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:51.299
are busy on the ground they're the ones that

00:23:51.299 --> 00:23:55.000
maybe don't have the capacity to Go to an event

00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:58.640
or, you know, so it's crucial that the allies

00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:02.259
amongst us that do have the capacity to share

00:24:02.259 --> 00:24:05.319
their voice, to be heard, to go to these events,

00:24:05.500 --> 00:24:08.319
do so on your friends, your colleagues, your

00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:10.940
family's behalf, because then that's the only

00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:14.599
way that these very vulnerable voices, and I

00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:17.380
don't use that term lightly, will be heard. So

00:24:17.380 --> 00:24:20.000
many of our learners don't. have speaking voices

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.299
for a start so that leaves them incredibly vulnerable

00:24:22.299 --> 00:24:25.319
for their opinion on all of this but also the

00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.059
parents often are the parents are often voiceless

00:24:29.059 --> 00:24:32.039
because they don't have the capacity the strength

00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:35.019
the energy the know -how in order to all the

00:24:35.019 --> 00:24:38.980
energy to fight this as well as doing you know

00:24:38.980 --> 00:24:42.180
surviving in the system that is already broken

00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:47.609
on social media for its skills is a really really

00:24:47.609 --> 00:24:50.230
positive space when it comes to special educational

00:24:50.230 --> 00:24:52.309
needs and for those parents that you say that

00:24:52.309 --> 00:24:55.730
can't go to a protest they can maybe grab five

00:24:55.730 --> 00:24:57.690
minutes on their phone to share something or

00:24:57.690 --> 00:24:59.650
send something to somebody that wasn't necessarily

00:24:59.650 --> 00:25:03.250
aware of it so there's a really positive supportive

00:25:03.250 --> 00:25:07.150
and kind of proactive community on social media.

00:25:07.609 --> 00:25:10.109
kind of in the SEN space so that's another way

00:25:10.109 --> 00:25:13.529
of making people aware is sharing stuff and we

00:25:13.529 --> 00:25:15.490
do loads of stuff on Instagram under the SEN

00:25:15.490 --> 00:25:18.369
expert but also we work with the Save Our Children's

00:25:18.369 --> 00:25:20.329
Rights as well so if you see any of our stuff

00:25:20.329 --> 00:25:22.190
just share it so that somebody someone might

00:25:22.190 --> 00:25:24.369
not even know what's going on so yeah it's really

00:25:24.369 --> 00:25:26.750
important I think to share it and I mean I was

00:25:26.750 --> 00:25:29.009
in the park at the weekend and was explaining

00:25:29.009 --> 00:25:31.930
it to a mum and I was like oh yeah there's a

00:25:31.930 --> 00:25:34.190
lot going on like the the legal rights of our

00:25:34.190 --> 00:25:36.470
most vulnerable children are up for debate. And

00:25:36.470 --> 00:25:37.609
she said, oh, well, that doesn't sound like a

00:25:37.609 --> 00:25:39.549
very Labour -y thing to do. And I was like, you

00:25:39.549 --> 00:25:41.569
are exactly the person that I need to explain

00:25:41.569 --> 00:25:44.049
this to because it doesn't matter what the political

00:25:44.049 --> 00:25:47.130
leanings are of the party, that what they're

00:25:47.130 --> 00:25:49.950
doing is happening and we need to make people

00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:51.630
aware. And I think people maybe were resting

00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:53.670
on their laurels of, oh, a Labour government

00:25:53.670 --> 00:25:54.970
officer, they're going to be very supportive

00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:57.230
for children with additional needs. And that,

00:25:57.369 --> 00:26:00.130
yeah, not necessarily the case. No, not necessarily.

00:26:01.869 --> 00:26:04.230
And what they are saying, what they're doing

00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:07.230
and what will actually happen in 10 years. I'm

00:26:07.230 --> 00:26:09.690
really, I am hopeful. I don't know if you are.

00:26:09.789 --> 00:26:13.150
I'm really hopeful that this will work. And,

00:26:13.210 --> 00:26:15.309
you know, mainstream schools will get supported

00:26:15.309 --> 00:26:19.470
and these learners will be able to experience

00:26:19.470 --> 00:26:23.329
inclusion and experts will be accessible. I'm

00:26:23.329 --> 00:26:26.329
really hopeful of that. But I'm also not stupid

00:26:26.329 --> 00:26:28.190
and I'm really passionate about spreading the

00:26:28.190 --> 00:26:30.950
word on, you know, doing everything we can in

00:26:30.950 --> 00:26:32.970
order to. get the funding we needed in order

00:26:32.970 --> 00:26:36.509
to make that possible. I think I sometimes when

00:26:36.509 --> 00:26:38.970
I'm trying to explain I sound like I'm being

00:26:38.970 --> 00:26:41.210
very negative but it's not it's just that so

00:26:41.210 --> 00:26:44.490
many of the people that I work with have had

00:26:44.490 --> 00:26:47.789
such awful awful experiences and I just want

00:26:47.789 --> 00:26:51.089
it to be right for them and I don't want things

00:26:51.089 --> 00:26:56.369
to change and it be short -sighted or change

00:26:56.369 --> 00:26:59.869
and actually children have less support. We're

00:26:59.869 --> 00:27:02.690
in a pretty dire situation anyway. So hopefully

00:27:02.690 --> 00:27:05.230
things can only get better. And with everything,

00:27:05.349 --> 00:27:07.569
when stuff changes, it makes people nervous.

00:27:07.630 --> 00:27:09.109
And I think that's what we're seeing a lot of

00:27:09.109 --> 00:27:11.250
at the minute. Definitely with my family, there's

00:27:11.250 --> 00:27:12.950
anxiety around, we don't know what's going to

00:27:12.950 --> 00:27:15.190
happen. And you kind of jump to the worst case

00:27:15.190 --> 00:27:17.190
scenario. The best case scenario for me would

00:27:17.190 --> 00:27:19.910
be it works and it's fully funded and everything

00:27:19.910 --> 00:27:23.329
is lovely. But yeah, the last 10 years has been

00:27:23.329 --> 00:27:25.950
proof that actually it's quite a complex thing

00:27:25.950 --> 00:27:28.789
to get right. And people talking about it is

00:27:28.789 --> 00:27:30.549
the first step, I think, in that process. Because

00:27:30.549 --> 00:27:32.490
for many years, it wasn't something that was

00:27:32.490 --> 00:27:34.470
talked about. And it was only the parents of

00:27:34.470 --> 00:27:37.049
children with additional needs that were aware

00:27:37.049 --> 00:27:39.430
of these kind of fights that they had to go through.

00:27:39.549 --> 00:27:41.329
So getting everyone talking about it is really

00:27:41.329 --> 00:27:44.059
important. In the meantime, as it were, you know,

00:27:44.059 --> 00:27:45.880
I want to be practical about this. Again, I don't

00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:47.359
just want to sit back on it. So it's great to

00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:49.299
share on social media. It's great to follow accounts

00:27:49.299 --> 00:27:52.099
that are following this stuff, that are speaking

00:27:52.099 --> 00:27:53.779
to the government, that are sharing accurate

00:27:53.779 --> 00:27:56.680
information and advice rather than some quite

00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:58.859
confusing or conflicting advice. It's really

00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:00.759
important that we're doing that. It's important

00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:02.619
that we're attending protests. It's important

00:28:02.619 --> 00:28:04.240
that we're having our voice heard. It's important

00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.140
that we're talking to MPs. Is it also important

00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:10.799
on that yearly annual review of an EHCP to make

00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:13.059
sure it's as robust as possible so that when

00:28:13.059 --> 00:28:16.259
it is reviewed, it's accurate so that accurate

00:28:16.259 --> 00:28:18.960
information is being judged on whether they should

00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:21.759
have it or not? Because so often a child will

00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:25.019
have an unchanged EHCP for years and years and

00:28:25.019 --> 00:28:27.880
it really isn't accurate anymore. Is that something

00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:30.420
that you would support with? Definitely. So most

00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:33.220
of our work is around EHCPs and making sure that

00:28:33.220 --> 00:28:35.880
they meet the needs of the child at whatever

00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.339
age they are at now. We do so many EHCP reviews.

00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:43.400
I did one the other day with a boy who was in

00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:46.440
sixth form and he has autism. He wants to apply

00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:48.559
to go to Oxford and Cambridge. And one of his

00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:50.700
EHCP outcomes was for him to be able to bounce

00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:52.960
a ball. And he was like, I can bounce a ball,

00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:54.680
but I'm also like applying to do biochemistry.

00:28:55.130 --> 00:28:57.250
Oxford and Cambridge. So maybe that's more appropriate.

00:28:57.349 --> 00:28:59.349
And I was like, it's just wild that these documents

00:28:59.349 --> 00:29:01.230
are allowed to follow these children around and

00:29:01.230 --> 00:29:03.450
they're so outdated. But yeah, we do an awful

00:29:03.450 --> 00:29:06.650
lot of work with EHCPs. So we will review existing

00:29:06.650 --> 00:29:09.670
EHCPs. We give them what we call a health check.

00:29:09.849 --> 00:29:12.690
We also work with families right from the beginning

00:29:12.690 --> 00:29:15.029
when they're applying all the way through to

00:29:15.029 --> 00:29:18.200
their EHCP being finalized. helping them find

00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:21.420
their school, preferred school as well. Making

00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:23.799
sure, as you said, that the EHCP is really robust.

00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:27.200
It is a solid representation of their needs currently,

00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:29.720
but also essentially it's a contract between

00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:32.900
local authority and school. So in Section F,

00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:34.480
where you have all your provisions, you want

00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.000
those provisions to be ones that are going to

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:39.700
have impact. You also want those... to be paid

00:29:39.700 --> 00:29:41.259
for by the local authority so the school can

00:29:41.259 --> 00:29:43.240
actually put in place what's being suggested.

00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:45.759
And we see so many EHPs where that is completely

00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:49.019
mismatched. So they're like, oh, people think

00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:51.660
they've got a great EHCP because things are on

00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:53.420
there, but if they're in the wrong section, it's

00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:55.740
not actually a legal requirement. Yeah, so the

00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:58.680
legal parts of an EHCP are sections B, F and

00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:04.220
I, which is B is needs, F is provisions and I

00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:07.839
is the name of the school. There also is space

00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.539
on there for information from social care and

00:30:10.539 --> 00:30:12.460
from health. And this is kind of the fallout,

00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:15.220
I suppose, of the SEN Code of Practice 10 years

00:30:15.220 --> 00:30:18.099
ago, or more than 10 years ago in 2014, is the

00:30:18.099 --> 00:30:20.480
whole idea of an EHCP is it's meant to be a collaborative

00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:22.819
document between education, health and care.

00:30:23.299 --> 00:30:25.579
And what happened was it just fell at the feet

00:30:25.579 --> 00:30:28.299
of schools. And health and care sometimes are

00:30:28.299 --> 00:30:30.079
involved, but not so much. But the health and

00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:32.660
care parts of an EHCP aren't actually legally

00:30:32.660 --> 00:30:34.839
enforceable. A tribunal judge, for example, can

00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:37.180
make... suggestions that health do something

00:30:37.180 --> 00:30:40.160
but they can't force them to do something um

00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:43.279
so yeah you have some plans where there's really

00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:45.299
critical information about how a child should

00:30:45.299 --> 00:30:47.839
be supported in school and it's just all over

00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.839
the place and then you've you're arguing over

00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:53.640
something that isn't right in the first place

00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:57.099
to argue about i've had that a lot with Parents

00:30:57.099 --> 00:30:58.720
trying to get their children into certain schools

00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:01.160
where the schools say, oh, well, we can't meet

00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:02.920
that level of need. And the parents say, that's

00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:04.539
not their level of need at all. That's their

00:31:04.539 --> 00:31:06.220
level of need when they were three and now they're

00:31:06.220 --> 00:31:09.940
eight. Yeah, a lot. I hear a lot of schools refusing

00:31:09.940 --> 00:31:13.779
learners at year seven because they're reading

00:31:13.779 --> 00:31:16.299
an EHCP that was written when they were year

00:31:16.299 --> 00:31:20.900
three. And it is so common that maybe these annual

00:31:20.900 --> 00:31:22.039
reviews are happening, but it's not actually

00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:25.369
going into the actual document. um and so many

00:31:25.369 --> 00:31:27.430
of those things yeah that is incredibly common

00:31:27.430 --> 00:31:29.289
so it's really important i suppose as a parent

00:31:29.289 --> 00:31:32.950
maybe even your top priority in all of this should

00:31:32.950 --> 00:31:34.569
be making sure that the documents that you do

00:31:34.569 --> 00:31:38.069
have and the reviews that you do go to you know

00:31:38.069 --> 00:31:40.789
you're having your voice heard and that you use

00:31:40.789 --> 00:31:42.990
those two weeks after the review in order to

00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:45.349
make those changes and advocate for those changes

00:31:45.349 --> 00:31:48.509
and make sure that they go in and into the right

00:31:48.509 --> 00:31:51.589
section and i suppose with your support they

00:31:51.589 --> 00:31:54.529
could be confident that they've got that whereas

00:31:54.529 --> 00:31:56.130
asking them to do it on their own i mean even

00:31:56.130 --> 00:31:58.130
teachers like i've been in the job for 16 years

00:31:58.130 --> 00:32:00.670
and i don't know if i would be confident to know

00:32:00.670 --> 00:32:02.210
that i would definitely have it in the right

00:32:02.210 --> 00:32:04.789
place in the right written in the right way so

00:32:04.789 --> 00:32:07.630
how would a parent know yeah we work with parents

00:32:07.630 --> 00:32:10.809
best case scenario is we get to meet a family

00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:12.990
early on so we'll just go to the annual review

00:32:12.990 --> 00:32:15.650
meeting with them and support school and making

00:32:15.650 --> 00:32:17.549
sure that everything's completed or we offer

00:32:17.549 --> 00:32:20.609
as i said the ehp review so we can do that at

00:32:20.609 --> 00:32:22.730
any point during the year and we'll review the

00:32:22.730 --> 00:32:24.829
document we have had some parents have come to

00:32:24.829 --> 00:32:27.069
us in that exact scenario like we want to get

00:32:27.069 --> 00:32:29.950
them into this school and they say the school

00:32:29.950 --> 00:32:31.529
won't have them because we can't meet level b

00:32:31.529 --> 00:32:34.569
but the ehp is wrong so we write addendums alongside

00:32:34.569 --> 00:32:37.349
professionals that know the child so what the

00:32:37.349 --> 00:32:40.089
ehp is sent to the school via local authority

00:32:40.089 --> 00:32:42.069
but then we'll follow up and say well here's

00:32:42.069 --> 00:32:44.359
a like a one pager this is what the child is

00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:46.380
like now so this is what you should be thinking

00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:50.000
about and most of the time schools are far more

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:53.059
open to reconsidering things and also you've

00:32:53.059 --> 00:32:54.799
got some other schools especially mainstream

00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:57.119
schools that can get sent a secondary school

00:32:57.119 --> 00:33:01.490
can get sent 30 or 40 EHEPs to review and they

00:33:01.490 --> 00:33:04.329
all have the same 15 days time to get back and

00:33:04.329 --> 00:33:05.789
they have to sit there and unpick it and make

00:33:05.789 --> 00:33:07.890
sure they're right making a really thorough decision

00:33:07.890 --> 00:33:09.769
and they've got to think about the children they've

00:33:09.769 --> 00:33:12.450
already got in school with EHEPs as well and

00:33:12.450 --> 00:33:15.410
often those aren't fully funded anyway so it's

00:33:15.410 --> 00:33:18.230
it's a tricky scenario but the best thing to

00:33:18.230 --> 00:33:20.609
do as you said was to make sure that your EHEP

00:33:20.609 --> 00:33:23.390
reflects your child because that's what's going

00:33:23.390 --> 00:33:26.250
out in the world to to schools to other professionals

00:33:26.250 --> 00:33:29.859
to kind of demonstrate their level of need, but

00:33:29.859 --> 00:33:32.160
also what they need to help them thrive. Yeah.

00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.319
On that as well, I suppose this summer term,

00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:36.619
there'll be lots of parents that are still waiting

00:33:36.619 --> 00:33:39.400
for that placement that are either hearing no's

00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:41.779
from their preferred school or not hearing anything

00:33:41.779 --> 00:33:45.380
at all. Quite often their SEN caseworker is still

00:33:45.380 --> 00:33:47.740
working on it. And that can be an incredibly

00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:51.160
anxiety provoking time. You don't feel like you're

00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:54.430
being heard. You have no idea where your child's

00:33:54.430 --> 00:33:56.289
going to go. You can't prepare them. You can't

00:33:56.289 --> 00:33:59.289
offer transitions. A lot of fear comes around

00:33:59.289 --> 00:34:00.930
it and a lot of exhaustion as well, a lot of

00:34:00.930 --> 00:34:03.390
responsibility on the parents. I know you support

00:34:03.390 --> 00:34:05.549
in that capacity as well. Do you mind speaking

00:34:05.549 --> 00:34:09.260
a little bit about that? Yeah, so we work with

00:34:09.260 --> 00:34:11.679
families to help them through the appeals process

00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:15.920
as well. So if, let's use an example of a child

00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:18.500
from year six going into year seven. If everything

00:34:18.500 --> 00:34:20.719
has gone to plan and local authorities have done

00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:22.539
all the jobs they're meant to do, you should

00:34:22.539 --> 00:34:26.019
know what your secondary school should be in

00:34:26.019 --> 00:34:28.780
February. A lot of the families we work with

00:34:28.780 --> 00:34:31.219
are still in that horrible stage of limbo, either

00:34:31.219 --> 00:34:34.900
whereby... Consultations have been sent to schools

00:34:34.900 --> 00:34:36.559
and local authorities saying, oh, we're still

00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.380
waiting to hear back. And you're kind of edging

00:34:38.380 --> 00:34:41.030
closer and closer to the summer holidays. The

00:34:41.030 --> 00:34:43.329
local authority has named a school that you are

00:34:43.329 --> 00:34:46.030
not happy with and you're going down the appeals

00:34:46.030 --> 00:34:49.250
route to go to tribunal to argue why your preferred

00:34:49.250 --> 00:34:50.690
school is better than the one that the local

00:34:50.690 --> 00:34:53.329
authority has suggested. In the main, local authorities

00:34:53.329 --> 00:34:55.369
are going to name schools that are the cheapest

00:34:55.369 --> 00:34:57.610
as opposed to the ones that meet the child's

00:34:57.610 --> 00:35:00.710
needs the best. So if parents always kind of

00:35:00.710 --> 00:35:02.650
remember that, I remember talking to a mum a

00:35:02.650 --> 00:35:04.329
couple of weeks ago and she was like, I'm just

00:35:04.329 --> 00:35:06.329
so, I don't understand how they think that can

00:35:06.329 --> 00:35:07.869
work. Why have I got it so wrong? I was like,

00:35:07.929 --> 00:35:10.440
you haven't got this wrong at all. child has

00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:12.239
got these needs so that school's most appropriate

00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:17.260
they're just trying to save money so if you are

00:35:17.260 --> 00:35:19.800
in that kind of scenario you either have yeah

00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:21.900
the appeals route or someone like me can come

00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:25.159
along and work with the local authority to encourage

00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:28.460
them to get consultation responses back because

00:35:28.460 --> 00:35:31.059
the ideal is that you have your school named

00:35:31.059 --> 00:35:33.780
in February you have some time to explain to

00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:35.239
your child oh this is going to be your you know

00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:37.039
your new secondary school let's get excited about

00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:39.599
it and then you have the summer term for some

00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.099
really robust transition and there's so many

00:35:42.099 --> 00:35:44.260
children i worked with where they're heading

00:35:44.260 --> 00:35:46.099
into summer holidays and they're saying goodbye

00:35:46.099 --> 00:35:48.820
to i don't know year six or whatever and they

00:35:48.820 --> 00:35:50.300
don't know where they're going it's awful even

00:35:50.300 --> 00:35:51.960
for a child without additional needs imagine

00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.079
how that makes you feel if you're at your i don't

00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:57.019
know yes we had it actually we had our year seven

00:35:57.019 --> 00:35:59.440
stay with us for the autumn term in year seven

00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:03.579
because they It didn't feel right having them

00:36:03.579 --> 00:36:06.139
leave when they didn't have a place yet. So we

00:36:06.139 --> 00:36:09.460
ended up having a year seven car for our learners

00:36:09.460 --> 00:36:13.159
until Christmas when they found out. But not

00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:16.420
all schools can do that. It's not fair to us.

00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:19.260
It was a primary, mainstream primary school.

00:36:19.340 --> 00:36:24.199
It's not fair to us. It shouldn't be. It's an

00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:28.380
absolute failure on the students and the families.

00:36:29.210 --> 00:36:31.929
This is the third year now that I've seen this

00:36:31.929 --> 00:36:34.809
pattern of children not finding out until at

00:36:34.809 --> 00:36:39.469
least the summer. No, and I think also as a parent

00:36:39.469 --> 00:36:41.070
of a child with additional needs, you kind of

00:36:41.070 --> 00:36:44.150
get to that February point when everyone's finding

00:36:44.150 --> 00:36:47.190
out what school place is. And if you don't hear

00:36:47.190 --> 00:36:49.570
about yours, it's just a really kind of upsetting

00:36:49.570 --> 00:36:53.309
and anxiety -making time. So at this point, we

00:36:53.309 --> 00:36:55.530
are often working with parents in a couple of

00:36:55.530 --> 00:36:58.280
different ways. One is supporting with... appeals,

00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:00.219
helping them log the appeals, making sure the

00:37:00.219 --> 00:37:02.840
appeals are brought forward so that actions can

00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:05.960
take place before the school starts. We also

00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.760
do an awful lot of advocacy work where we will

00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:11.719
take on all of the admin of talking to the local

00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:13.679
authority slash arguing with the local authority

00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:16.079
or responding by email. So we say to parents,

00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:18.800
give us all the information. We're going to sort

00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:21.139
this. And I always, like some parents laugh,

00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:22.619
I say, I'll ring you when I've got it sorted.

00:37:23.150 --> 00:37:24.730
And then some parents really like that. Like,

00:37:24.730 --> 00:37:26.409
yeah, just don't talk to me until you tell me

00:37:26.409 --> 00:37:29.130
what the end result is. Others I work very closely

00:37:29.130 --> 00:37:31.670
with. I'm talking to them every day. But that

00:37:31.670 --> 00:37:35.630
level of support that we provide, I think, just

00:37:35.630 --> 00:37:38.389
takes the pressure off parents because parents

00:37:38.389 --> 00:37:41.260
are not only... probably got a full -time or

00:37:41.260 --> 00:37:43.599
part -time job they're trying to parent a child

00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:45.119
with additional needs and then suddenly they're

00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:48.539
like a magically a an admin person and i'm at

00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:50.480
the beck and call of every email or phone call

00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:52.460
whatever from the local authority or from schools

00:37:52.460 --> 00:37:56.599
or whatever um so yeah we take on all of the

00:37:56.599 --> 00:38:00.199
stress so that parents can focus on just like

00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:03.139
getting on with being a parent because when we

00:38:03.139 --> 00:38:05.590
were all signed up to have children that sounds

00:38:05.590 --> 00:38:07.230
really weird way of putting it but when we decided

00:38:07.230 --> 00:38:08.909
to become parents we wouldn't be like I really

00:38:08.909 --> 00:38:10.650
want to be a parent so I can write really spicy

00:38:10.650 --> 00:38:13.559
emails to my local authority Yeah, there's enough

00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:15.780
admin, enough emails and enough appointments

00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:18.800
when you're an SEND parent, let alone with this

00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:21.219
added pressure. And it's not, let's face it,

00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:23.739
it's not responding to council and government

00:38:23.739 --> 00:38:26.920
emails, pushing for an answer in the first place.

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:29.300
They're not coming to contact you. So sometimes

00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:31.260
that's where the burnout comes from then, isn't

00:38:31.260 --> 00:38:34.059
it? Whereas we need parents to be as strong and

00:38:34.059 --> 00:38:36.840
as capable as possible to carry on for their

00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:39.699
child. And the fact that you can take that load

00:38:39.699 --> 00:38:43.420
off is just huge. And also, you know, the wording

00:38:43.420 --> 00:38:45.739
and the legal rights and all of those things,

00:38:45.860 --> 00:38:48.960
it maybe will have more weight from an outside

00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:52.059
organisation. I think because, so there's 25

00:38:52.059 --> 00:38:55.659
of us now all across the country. I think having

00:38:55.659 --> 00:38:59.860
us take on the sort of the burden of it, that's

00:38:59.860 --> 00:39:04.050
the wrong word, isn't it? works well because

00:39:04.050 --> 00:39:06.489
local authorities oh god here they come i had

00:39:06.489 --> 00:39:09.250
one local authority um email me and ask me to

00:39:09.250 --> 00:39:12.449
stop working with parents in their borough because

00:39:12.449 --> 00:39:14.510
we were winning too many appeals and i was like

00:39:14.510 --> 00:39:16.329
i think now i don't think that's how it works

00:39:16.329 --> 00:39:19.409
okay like thanks thanks for your email so yeah

00:39:19.409 --> 00:39:22.030
sometimes just having an advocate or a service

00:39:22.030 --> 00:39:25.760
like ours in your email thread or you say you

00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:27.800
know I'm working with the SEN expert or my advocate

00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.039
so and so from the SEN expert is going to attend

00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.460
this meeting suddenly decisions happen a lot

00:39:32.460 --> 00:39:35.639
quicker and I sometimes say to parents even if

00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:38.119
they aren't clients of ours they'll have an advice

00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:40.119
call with us and I'll say well just email them

00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:42.219
and say that you're not working with us and see

00:39:42.219 --> 00:39:43.940
what happens and then they just get what they

00:39:43.940 --> 00:39:49.780
want so I think local authorities rely on a lot

00:39:49.780 --> 00:39:52.789
of like you said burnout but they also hope that

00:39:52.789 --> 00:39:55.289
parents can be fobbed off. And when we get involved,

00:39:55.369 --> 00:39:57.210
they can't be fobbed off because we know the

00:39:57.210 --> 00:39:59.670
law kind of inside and out and also have probably

00:39:59.670 --> 00:40:02.650
worked with the local authority on another child's

00:40:02.650 --> 00:40:05.570
case or worked with a school in a different capacity.

00:40:05.730 --> 00:40:08.349
So yeah, sometimes just our little faces appearing

00:40:08.349 --> 00:40:11.849
is enough. get things done hopefully yeah you

00:40:11.849 --> 00:40:13.889
can open some doors and get some answers hopefully

00:40:13.889 --> 00:40:16.530
which is oh god that's worth its weight in gold

00:40:16.530 --> 00:40:20.969
isn't it let's face it um I suppose it's let's

00:40:20.969 --> 00:40:24.889
think on a hopeful note I suppose what what is

00:40:24.889 --> 00:40:28.250
your hope for if we're looking at SEND provision

00:40:28.250 --> 00:40:32.110
over the next 10 years what do you hope that

00:40:32.110 --> 00:40:35.610
that looks like I hope that. The government's

00:40:35.610 --> 00:40:38.389
focus on early intervention stands true. There

00:40:38.389 --> 00:40:40.710
are so many children with additional needs that

00:40:40.710 --> 00:40:43.090
if they had support when they were really little,

00:40:43.210 --> 00:40:45.929
they would be able to thrive in school as opposed

00:40:45.929 --> 00:40:48.650
to just survive. So the focus on early intervention

00:40:48.650 --> 00:40:53.550
is key, I think. Yes, putting more focus on the

00:40:53.550 --> 00:40:56.010
mainstream is a very positive idea. Of course,

00:40:56.010 --> 00:40:57.949
we want to have an inclusive education system.

00:40:58.010 --> 00:41:00.750
We wouldn't want that. But we want to make sure

00:41:00.750 --> 00:41:02.750
that it can happen in a way that's fully funded,

00:41:02.849 --> 00:41:05.400
that is going to lead to positive outcomes for

00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.800
these children and that they feel part of their

00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:09.400
school community and they're actually in a space

00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:13.219
where they can enjoy being at school and do what

00:41:13.219 --> 00:41:15.360
their peers are doing. I think too often at the

00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:18.179
moment we see where children with special educational

00:41:18.179 --> 00:41:20.519
needs maybe are in a mainstream school but they're

00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:22.980
there in kind of body but nothing else really

00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:25.440
and they're kind of excluded by being included.

00:41:25.739 --> 00:41:28.760
The government obviously are trying to lessen

00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:31.360
the numbers going into specialist settings and

00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:33.980
putting that down to the most complex children

00:41:33.980 --> 00:41:38.500
and that's that's good that's fine but if the

00:41:38.500 --> 00:41:40.360
most complex children are taking are having the

00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:43.260
spaces in the SEN specialist settings great that

00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:46.179
means that the mainstream settings that sit behind

00:41:46.179 --> 00:41:49.139
that need to be robust need to have the experts

00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:51.239
at hand system we need to have teachers that

00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:55.099
are teachers of SEN not just teachers who aren't

00:41:55.099 --> 00:41:57.980
kind of up for teaching children with additional

00:41:57.980 --> 00:42:02.699
needs and we need to have a system whereby not

00:42:02.699 --> 00:42:06.059
just teachers are inclusive but the students

00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:09.000
are as well so it would be wonderful to go into

00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:10.840
a mainstream I don't know primary school in 10

00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:13.039
years time and you see children there with complex

00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.880
needs but they're on their own path within that

00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:18.780
setting thriving achieving maybe some qualifications

00:42:18.780 --> 00:42:21.880
if it's the right level and they're part of the

00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:24.219
community with I don't know a child that's just

00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:26.539
done their SATs or whatever you know I think

00:42:26.539 --> 00:42:30.340
inclusion is about having everybody feeling like

00:42:30.340 --> 00:42:33.860
they're part of something and for too long RICN

00:42:33.860 --> 00:42:37.239
children have been put in places where they don't

00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:40.179
feel like they belong and then the system is

00:42:40.179 --> 00:42:42.059
sort of crumbling because they're like well no

00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:43.340
they don't belong and we can't meet their needs

00:42:43.340 --> 00:42:44.739
and we're failing them and it's just an awful

00:42:44.739 --> 00:42:47.219
feeling to to know you're doing a bad job but

00:42:47.219 --> 00:42:49.139
it's not your fault that you're doing a bad job

00:42:49.139 --> 00:42:53.440
so it's very waffly way I think that is exactly

00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:57.460
right for children to feel like they belong and

00:42:57.460 --> 00:43:00.619
to thrive in education whatever that looks like

00:43:00.619 --> 00:43:04.059
for them I think is exactly what we need I mean

00:43:04.059 --> 00:43:06.139
you can have a primary probably secondary school

00:43:06.139 --> 00:43:08.239
is an easier way of explaining it but you can

00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:11.460
have a secondary school where I don't know 30

00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:13.960
40 percent of the kids are doing nine GCSEs or

00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:15.300
whatever and heading off to do A -levels but

00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:17.159
you can still have children in the building that

00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:19.980
are doing functional skills levels or they're

00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:22.920
doing a life skills curriculum just because what

00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:25.360
they're learning is different doesn't mean that

00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:27.260
they're not part of that community and I think

00:43:27.260 --> 00:43:30.360
with the right funding I know all I do is talk

00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:32.739
about bloody money but with the right funding

00:43:32.739 --> 00:43:34.900
that is completely possible and with the right

00:43:34.900 --> 00:43:37.340
attitude as well teachers want to teach everybody

00:43:37.340 --> 00:43:39.940
not teachers that are i'm an scn teacher and

00:43:39.940 --> 00:43:42.340
i don't teach so the benefit of that would be

00:43:42.340 --> 00:43:45.039
if children are being educated in their local

00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:47.699
school with local children around them it means

00:43:47.699 --> 00:43:50.260
also that when they all become adults they will

00:43:50.260 --> 00:43:53.619
also know everybody in the community so that

00:43:53.619 --> 00:43:56.519
when there's an adult with with needs in the

00:43:56.519 --> 00:43:59.539
local supermarket Everybody working at the supermarket

00:43:59.539 --> 00:44:01.780
will remember them from school. Everybody in

00:44:01.780 --> 00:44:03.519
the supermarket will remember them from school.

00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:06.099
And it will be a more supportive community just

00:44:06.099 --> 00:44:08.420
in general because these children will be seen.

00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:11.340
And so often they're not. They're hidden away,

00:44:11.539 --> 00:44:15.199
locked behind doors and in special provision.

00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:18.039
And actually, what do we ultimately want for

00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:20.179
the future of all these people that will become

00:44:20.179 --> 00:44:22.840
adults? I'd love it to be a supportive, understanding,

00:44:23.139 --> 00:44:25.820
inclusive actual community outside of school.

00:44:26.269 --> 00:44:28.469
too i think actually teaching the mainstream

00:44:28.469 --> 00:44:32.530
could provide that and i think what we often

00:44:32.530 --> 00:44:36.090
don't realize is there's a lot of noise around

00:44:36.090 --> 00:44:39.210
special needs children or children in schools

00:44:39.210 --> 00:44:41.570
and then we kind of forget like you said about

00:44:41.570 --> 00:44:44.150
the adulthood bit and there's just some crazy

00:44:44.150 --> 00:44:48.550
statistics like 60 of people in prison have some

00:44:48.550 --> 00:44:50.730
form of special education or need that's not

00:44:50.730 --> 00:44:53.159
because their special educational need has caused

00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:54.559
them to do something else because they've been

00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:57.219
failed and let down and they've had nowhere else

00:44:57.219 --> 00:45:00.039
to turn apart from, you know, a path of ending

00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:02.480
up in prison. The amount that is spent on adult

00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:05.699
social care is absolutely huge in supported living,

00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:09.559
adult carers. And if we followed that model of

00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:11.800
the early intervention... The government can

00:45:11.800 --> 00:45:14.239
save money at that end as opposed to taking things

00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:16.719
away from children in school. We can build children

00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:19.280
up to be confident members of whatever community.

00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:22.000
It's being spent anyway, isn't it? So spending

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.880
it in this early intervention stage just makes

00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:26.639
so much more sense because otherwise it's going

00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:28.420
to be spent further down the line. It sounds

00:45:28.420 --> 00:45:31.039
really bleak, but... The amount of money it costs

00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:34.699
for someone to be in prison is huge. And why,

00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:36.820
if we invested in those people when they were

00:45:36.820 --> 00:45:39.000
children, when they were in school, a huge part

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:40.619
of the prison population have speech and language

00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:43.219
issues. So if the speech and language therapy

00:45:43.219 --> 00:45:45.519
that was taken away 10 years ago wasn't taken

00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:49.360
away, then that would have been a saving at the

00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:51.599
other end when you now got all these poor people

00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:54.579
in prison who, you know, yes, they may have committed

00:45:54.579 --> 00:45:56.320
a crime or whatever, and that's not great, but

00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:58.710
their needs weren't met. And they were let down

00:45:58.710 --> 00:46:00.389
and then look where they've ended up. It's not

00:46:00.389 --> 00:46:03.570
always their fault. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:46:03.969 --> 00:46:05.909
I know that people will listen to this. I know

00:46:05.909 --> 00:46:08.010
that teachers, parents will be listening to this

00:46:08.010 --> 00:46:11.650
thinking, this is exactly what I need. Whatever

00:46:11.650 --> 00:46:13.829
reason, whether it's understanding more about

00:46:13.829 --> 00:46:17.750
the systems that they're using in school or in

00:46:17.750 --> 00:46:19.849
their workplace, maybe even they want to become

00:46:19.849 --> 00:46:22.989
more inclusive or they've become a SENCO or they've

00:46:22.989 --> 00:46:24.690
been a SENCO for a while and they want to improve

00:46:24.690 --> 00:46:26.969
their knowledge on that or that they're a parent

00:46:26.969 --> 00:46:29.300
and they're... exhausting themselves advocating

00:46:29.300 --> 00:46:31.980
for these needs or incredibly anxious about what's

00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:34.760
to come. I think all of those people, which is

00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.079
basically my entire audience, will want to find

00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:39.000
out more about you. Where can they find out more

00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:42.639
about The SEN Expert? So the best place to go

00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:46.320
is our website. So it's www .thesenexpert .co

00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:49.199
.uk. On there is an explanation of all the different

00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:51.880
ways that we can assist. We also have an absolute

00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:54.079
ton of blogs on there that are written either

00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:57.179
by myself or our experts. We have guests. writers

00:46:57.179 --> 00:47:00.239
as well so it's just quite a healthy library

00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:03.079
of resources if you want to have a read we also

00:47:03.079 --> 00:47:06.480
have a little window that pops up so you can

00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:09.000
book a advice call with us so our advice calls

00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:12.420
are really good places to start it is with there's

00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:14.840
four experts that do the advice calls they're

00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.219
all experts in different areas of special educational

00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:20.059
needs and that conversation is just firstly an

00:47:20.059 --> 00:47:21.860
opportunity for you to offload and say I've got

00:47:21.860 --> 00:47:24.309
this is happening and does it feel right What

00:47:24.309 --> 00:47:26.309
do you think? And sort of talk to somebody that's

00:47:26.309 --> 00:47:30.869
in the know. And then we can direct you to various

00:47:30.869 --> 00:47:33.949
services that we have. We do offer services for

00:47:33.949 --> 00:47:37.070
free for some families. And we also work with

00:47:37.070 --> 00:47:40.730
schools and professionals in other capacities

00:47:40.730 --> 00:47:45.429
too. If you are an Instagram person, which I

00:47:45.429 --> 00:47:48.980
didn't used to be and now I have to be. We've

00:47:48.980 --> 00:47:52.579
got a Instagram account at SEN Expert and every

00:47:52.579 --> 00:47:55.820
day I will share a sort of tidbit of information

00:47:55.820 --> 00:47:58.840
either about SEN current affairs. Sometimes we

00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:01.239
do things around certain needs and how parents

00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:03.159
can support children with certain needs doing

00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:05.739
certain things. But it's a really kind of handy

00:48:05.739 --> 00:48:08.059
resource. And one of my... families one of the

00:48:08.059 --> 00:48:10.139
mums said to me the other day that when she is

00:48:10.139 --> 00:48:12.139
queuing to get her coffee on the way to work

00:48:12.139 --> 00:48:14.659
she always checks to see what real we've done

00:48:14.659 --> 00:48:16.260
and that kind of gives her the bit of information

00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:18.599
she needs to think about for that day also there's

00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:21.380
loads of people on there who are in similar situations

00:48:21.380 --> 00:48:23.980
it's just a really lovely community so the instagram

00:48:23.980 --> 00:48:26.840
is is a good place to go we're also on facebook

00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:29.400
and linkedin but i should really put more effort

00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:32.059
i haven't quite got around to it so yeah i would

00:48:32.059 --> 00:48:35.300
say go to the website um or instagram and on

00:48:35.300 --> 00:48:37.960
our website as well is um the email address so

00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:41.739
you can just email us it's amazing and I I just

00:48:41.739 --> 00:48:44.019
know that just knowing that you're there if needed

00:48:44.019 --> 00:48:47.619
could also give like reduce so much anxiety like

00:48:47.619 --> 00:48:50.420
actually I'm handling it now but actually just

00:48:50.420 --> 00:48:53.119
to have your email in your back pocket to know

00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:56.059
that you know that is an option I think could

00:48:56.059 --> 00:48:58.579
really ease a huge amount we have lots of families

00:48:58.579 --> 00:49:01.639
that they stay with us for years so we will have

00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:05.250
solved whatever big crisis was happening way

00:49:05.250 --> 00:49:08.110
back when and then they'll sort of nip in and

00:49:08.110 --> 00:49:10.090
say and just sort of check in because they're

00:49:10.090 --> 00:49:11.369
like oh does this sound right i just want to

00:49:11.369 --> 00:49:13.110
check if this email is provided correctly or

00:49:13.110 --> 00:49:14.889
this happened at school what do you think and

00:49:14.889 --> 00:49:17.070
they they're our families they're not you know

00:49:17.070 --> 00:49:18.909
clients or whatever there are there are people

00:49:18.909 --> 00:49:21.750
so yes having us in your back pocket can be quite

00:49:21.750 --> 00:49:24.030
handy at times well it can be quite isolating

00:49:24.030 --> 00:49:29.050
can't it so it's great to have different people

00:49:29.050 --> 00:49:30.710
are telling you different things but they're

00:49:30.710 --> 00:49:34.110
also people in positions of authority so you're

00:49:34.110 --> 00:49:35.769
like well school told me this but that must be

00:49:35.769 --> 00:49:37.130
right because I have a school and of course that's

00:49:37.130 --> 00:49:38.469
happening right well the local authority told

00:49:38.469 --> 00:49:40.630
me something else and that's what I think the

00:49:40.630 --> 00:49:43.230
beauty of the SDN expert is is that me being

00:49:43.230 --> 00:49:46.469
gobby in school meetings 10 odd years ago when

00:49:46.469 --> 00:49:49.170
I just wanted to be honest and frank now I do

00:49:49.170 --> 00:49:52.429
it as like my orb so just give me like the clear

00:49:52.429 --> 00:49:54.670
-cut information that you'd need sounds amazing

00:49:54.670 --> 00:49:56.769
thank you so much Claire for joining I know this

00:49:56.769 --> 00:50:00.289
is a podcast that I will endeavor to share over

00:50:00.289 --> 00:50:03.030
and over again I think to support parents in

00:50:03.030 --> 00:50:05.590
my dms when I can't I don't have the capacity

00:50:05.590 --> 00:50:07.750
or or knowledge to be able to support them in

00:50:07.750 --> 00:50:11.150
that legal way that I think that you can so thank

00:50:11.150 --> 00:50:13.929
you so much for that much thank you for having

00:50:13.929 --> 00:50:14.110
me