Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Sensory
Classroom podcast. My name is Jordan and today
I am joined by Claire, the founder of the SEN
Experts. Hi Claire. How are you? Oh good, thank
you. First of all, are you all right to explain
a little bit about what the SEN Expert as a company
does and who you serve? Yes. So the SEN Expert
is an educational consultancy firm that focuses
solely on special educational needs. We help
a whole range of people in the SEN space, most
importantly our families. So we help families,
children, young people navigate the tricky world
of SEN, be that looking at EHCPs, going all the
way through to appeal or working with school
when relationships have been a bit tricky, for
example. And we also work with schools themselves.
So we offer training and support for schools
around all different issues to do with special
educational needs. And we also work with SENCOs,
be a SENCO that's new to the job or someone that's
been doing it for 30 odd years, helping them
and coaching them through, again, navigating
a very, shall we say, fluid system that is constantly
changing. We also work with professionals in
a couple of capacities. So we work with other
specialists in the field of SEN. So we work with
speech and language. therapists companies for
example providing them an understanding of how
they can write really good evidence for the HCP
and we also work with corporates and we offer
our services as an employee benefit so there's
really kind of shocking statistics around the
amount of parents that have to leave their once
loved careers because they are attending appointments
with their child or their child might be having
a tough time at school um and it usually ends
up with them quitting or ending up being fired
so we work with corporates for our services as
an employee benefit so before they end up losing
a job that they loved we step in and hopefully
fix all the problems so yeah that's kind of what
we do in a nutshell so who is making up your
of the SEN expert. Are you all special education
teachers? What are your backgrounds? I'm guessing
you're wearing a lot of hats with all of that.
report so yeah let me i don't know if you just
kind of let us in on who you are and what the
company um so i set up the scn expert and it
was just me five years ago we're now a team of
25 and the team are from all different areas
of the scn space which is what makes i think
work really interesting but also we're able to
tackle quite tricky and diverse problems. So
we have people that are SEN lawyers, for example,
we have head teachers, we have deputy head teachers,
we've got teaching assistants, people that work
for local authorities, therapists. And the way
that they work with us is that they use the SEN
expert as a means to kind of supplement their
existing career, which works fantastically for
us because we have people who are living, breathing
SEN in schools and then they're working with
us as well. So we're quite an interesting bunch,
I think. their knowledge up to date as well they're
on the ground it's always going to be realistic
you know advice as far as that goes because they're
living it and breathing it anyway yeah no and
it makes for like a really kind of exciting working
environment i suppose it's a very handy hive
mind to have when you've got a question like
sen when we can like we meet um Each week, and
yeah, it's like, oh, I work for a local authority.
What would the school's perspective be on this?
And then a deputy head is able to say, well,
we would look at it this way, or a speech and
language therapist could chip in and say something
different. So it's a mixed bag, but it's a bag
that is able to offer all sorts of different
kind of support. So needed right now. I bet you
are incredibly busy. Yes, we are a little bit
busier. That's amazing. But 25, you know, shared
between 25, it is possible to be able to help.
What pushed you in particular? You said you started.
What pushed you to start this consultancy work?
And what did your career look like before the
SEN Expert? So I have always been in education.
So I started out as an art teacher. So I trained
and moved to London. And my first ever day, the
deputy head was like, oh, you're not going to
teach that much art. You're going to have a year
seven teacher. They've all got a very mixed range
of very complex special needs. And they're not
allowed outside that room. And you're going to
teach them everything. So I had one day of SEN
training on my PGCE that everybody gets. So it
was a bit of a baptism of fire, but it really
kind of gave me the fire as opposed to SEN. That's
where it all began. And then I have skipped around
all over the place in the UK and in the US working
in education, but always having a sort of special
needs focus on things. So I've been, I used to
be an SA and advisor for an academy chain. I
was deputy head for a while in a school in the
Southwest. In London, I worked as assistant principal
in charge of inclusion and safeguarding. So I've
always had. an SEN focus and always been a SENCO
here, there and everywhere. And I got to the
point where I was getting really fed up with
kind of reductive thinking around SEN. It was
like, oh, we can't do that for that child because
then everybody will want it. And I'm like, oh,
we can't do the right thing by one child because,
oh, then we'll have to do the right thing by
every child. Oh, that sounds awful. I was the
annoying person that would argue about... what
I felt to be unfair exclusions or provisions
not being put in place. I used to march down
to the local authority office and sit in the
reception and wait for the caseworkers to come
for their lunch and be like, oh, hello, good
to see you here. So I was on the one side, you
could look at it as being very passionate. On
the other side, I was a thorn in the side of
people who maybe weren't as inclusively minded
as I was around education. So that's why I decided
to set up the SCN Expert because too often I've
sat. in meetings with families and I really want
to tell them the honest truth and I can't because
of the institution I'm working for or the bureaucracy
around it or something. So setting up independently
meant that we can be completely honest, open
and frank and that's the way we work. So everything
that we do with our families is the God's honest
truth and there's no agendas. I think our families
really like that, that it's kind of like this
is how... this is how the cookie's going to crumble
and this is how we're going to do it and we're
going to tackle it this way and the other. Although
starting from an art teacher perspective seems
a bit off, I think it feeds really nicely into
what I do now because we come up with all sorts
of creative solutions to some really quite tricky
problems. And I think what SEN, especially in
mainstream education, what SEN needs... is that
kind of thinking out of the box and as the years
have gone by our education system I think has
got more and more the box is getting much smaller
and yeah that's why I stepped out of that sort
of area and then set up so I could help in a
different way and we've helped a huge amount
of families huge amount of schools and had real
sort of success stories when I was in a school
I found it often that we would be trying so hard
for the best for the child and we'd never get
to a conclusion that was positive. It would be
an exclusion or it would be that the placement
couldn't meet need or whatever. So yeah, I just,
I enjoy the feeling of actually being able to
help now. I can completely relate to that, that
by working independently, you always have more
control to be able to make more change and maybe
make more change for more people as well. You
can advocate, you know, when you're a teacher,
you can advocate for your 10 pupils or however
many you've got and you can do your best. But
there is so much red tape and there are so many
people above you making decisions. on your behalf,
that you've only got so much control. It can
become incredibly frustrating. And I do think
that ultimately for SEND teachers, I often find
that's actually where the burnout comes from.
So many people that aren't in SEM provision think
that burnout comes from, I don't know, behaviour
or whatever, but it just doesn't. It comes from
the emotional turmoil of constantly advocating
for your students and not actually having the
full control to actually make a difference. So
I can really relate to you. in wanting to be
independent, to be able to actually make that
difference, not just for your class, actually
for children all over the world, it sounds like.
You recently spoke about the white paper and
that's something that really made me want to
get you on this podcast. I wanted to anyway,
but it really made me want to, that you have
been speaking to government officials about the
white paper. You know, there's so much confusion
around it and I just would love, one, to hear
what you initially... thought about it when you
read it and then also did you get any clarity
from it what were your questions what were the
answers and then what do you feel about it now
as far as you know the changes that are going
to be made in the future yes it has been a busy
time with uh with the white paper the first and
I think most important thing to share with your
listeners is that there's been a lot of anxiety
around the white paper but currently It is just
a proposal of changes and nothing has become
law yet. And there's still an opportunity for
parents, families, schools, whoever, to respond
to the consultation. The consultation's got 39
questions in it, looking at different areas of
the white paper. So there's still time for change
and there's still time to fight for what you
believe is right. When the white paper was released,
it was a long time coming. And I knew it wasn't
going to be all kind of bells and whistles and
a perfect solution because the SEN system, as
you know, is broken and it has been getting progressively
worse over the last 10 years. The SEN Code of
Practice, when it came out in 2014, was actually
a really positive bit of legislation. It was
really supportive. It offered support to children
without diagnosis. And then the issue, I think,
why it all fell to pieces was it wasn't properly
funded by central government. So you have this
very open... broad reaching law, it's given to
the local authorities and says, off you go, go
and make that happen, but we're not going to
give you enough money. And then parents aren't
able to go and have an argument with central
government about their funding decisions, but
they can certainly have an argument with local
authorities. So you've had this 10 years of kind
of unravelling where the law is offering quite
a lot, but it's not being fully funded. And I
think at some point that had to stop because
the amount of local authorities that are close
to bankruptcy the amount of families that are
pulling their hair out because they are saying
well this is the law and you're not being lawful
and then and local authorities in many cases
just they just aren't but yeah that's the way
to hold them to account and there's not enough
money to make the law function so i see where
the white paper is coming from i think it's a
money saving exercise um push everything back
into mainstream education and we can save money
on expensive SEN school places or really high
-costed provision. That is a lovely idea if it
is fully funded. We can't just have a repeat
performance of what we had last time because
we'll just be sat here waiting for 10 years and
then the same thing will happen again. I think
there are strengths in the white paper. The experts
at Handpiece is very interesting. So that's where
they are. going to fund specialist therapists
to be on hand so that schools can call them to
have an EP assessment, for example, or speech
and language therapy, whereas now you're waiting
months and months and months and there's not
that direct link from schools to just call up
and say, I need help. That's positive. No, that
is really positive and so needed to have that.
Is there enough therapists and educational psychologists
in this country to fulfil that need? Is their
training also being funded? Surely, you know,
that's wonderful that they're saying that they're
accessible. And that's amazing. And that, of
course, is so needed. We're desperate for that.
I mean, I'm in Cornwall. They're so unattainable.
And I'm sure they are across the rest of the
country as well. Is training included? Is support
in getting more educational psychologists? I
guess this is the thing. So there's lots of proposals
in the white paper that, in theory, are good
ideas. But they have to be backed up by... the
financials and that's the bit that makes me nervous
when I was talking to George Gould I brought
this up I said it's all very nice that you're
going to do all this stuff in mainstream schools
you're going to build all these bases you're
going to train all the teachers but where's where's
the money coming from to make this actually happen
though they have been vaguely generous with the
funding that they have provided. So they've provided,
I think it's 1 .6 billion to go to schools to
help them implement elements of the white paper,
sort of build these bases. They also have separate
funding for the experts at hand piece. It just
simply isn't enough. I sat down and, very sad,
worked out how many schools had in the country
and divided it all up. And I said to her, I think,
if we look at the money, in theory, what you're
proposing is £400 -ish for each SEN child over
three years. That's what you're giving them.
But that, to me... Not even a day for a month,
is it? That doesn't equate to, you know, you
can have... a really robust package of EP support
for this child to help them navigate whatever
they're going through. A lot of the white paper
stuff for me is it's a nice idea in theory, but
the foundations aren't strong enough. There's
not enough funding. An awful lot of pressure
is going to be put on mainstream schools. That
would be... a challenge if our education system
wasn't in good nick our education system's on
its knees everyone as in teachers is leaving
and we're suddenly saying oh look why don't you
do all this extra stuff and we're going to give
you a little bit of money to make it happen I
think training to do it with I think it works
out for teachers about a day's worth of training
and I think there are positives in it but those
positives they just don't have the substance
to them and that's what makes me concerned about
what SEN will look like going forward. Also,
and it's really important for parents to be aware
of this, especially if they're considering responding
to the consultation, is that at the moment, what
makes our SEN system great is that SEN code of
practice, the law that sits behind it. And if
you look at the white paper, There was an awful
lot of legal rights being taken away and not
a whole lot of them being put back in. So if
you remove a child's legal rights, then they're
not going to have, or parents and families aren't
going to have the opportunity to go to appeal
to the greatest extent they need to. It'll be
a lot more parents versus schools in arguments
over things. And rather than the tribunals process,
which is what we use at the moment, there's a
lot more focus on... parents if they're not happy
with things to use the school's complaints procedure
so that again is just more work for schools and
also the whole way that we make education great
is having really good strong working relationships
between the child the parent and the school so
if you're saying oh the only way you can get
the right provision for your child is by complaining
to the school the people you have to work with
every day it just isn't a sort of robust system
of kind of recourse it's just like okay well
if you don't like it go and complain to the people
that have made it when i can imagine the school
the best schools will be trying their best with
very little and ultimately then hands might be
tied as far as funding and or training or understanding
or bespoke rooms or services might go because
They can't just make things happen out of thin
air, like just because a parent complains about
it, even if the school is in agreement that that
is needed. I'm sure the school would be in agreement
that that was needed. It would certainly make
the school's life easier if they had more support.
The tribunal's support process will still exist.
They just will have different rights. So at the
moment, they can order a local authority to place
a child in a specific school, for example. And
in the white paper, it's proposing that they
don't have that power. They can suggest that
the local authority change their mind, which
is a bit of a... watering down in my view but
I think it's really tricky with the white paper
because in a theory there's some really positive
stuff in it but if you don't do things properly
they're not going to work and that's what makes
me nervous about it and I think that's what makes
a lot of parents nervous is because currently
the only thing that they've got that makes me
feel safe are the legal protections of their
child's EHCP so if we're going to take that away
and put in a new system That new system has to
be really robust, really well funded and build
confidence in these families because they don't
have confidence in the system because they've
been treated so badly for the last 10 years.
I almost wish we'd have some kind of, I don't
know, magic wand to look forward in 10 years
time and be like, oh look, actually having this
mainstream focus did work and this is how, you
know, the positive ways of getting there because
wouldn't it be great if it... if it could work.
But at the minute, everyone is so anxious because
they're just clinging on to what they know. If
you have a child with complex needs, you want
them to have an EHP because it's a legal protection.
You want them to go to special school because
you know that's where they're going to get the
best provision because they haven't got it in
mainstream. And I can see how the government
have these kind of aspirational ideas, but they're
singing to an audience that doesn't trust them
because of how they've been treated in the past.
And yeah, for my slightly cynical way of looking
at it. To make things work, you've got to fund
them. And if it's not properly funded, you're
just reducing legal rights and taking things
away, not adding to. Yeah, it would be the best
ideas in the world, couldn't it? But without
the actual backing to make it actually happen
and function as you're saying. A lot of things
that are, which makes me laugh actually, in the
white paper are just services that they took
away the last time. Why not? So they're talking
about having levels of support in school called
targeted and targeted plus. But when I first
started as a SENCO, we used to have school action
and school action plus. I'm like, oh, that sounds
similar. I wonder why. Oh, it's exactly the same
thing. I'm just bringing it back and giving it
a new name. Same with experts at hand. We used
to have teams of specialists that you would be
able to call upon as a SENCO and they'd come
in. So a lot of the bits are dressed up as kind
of like the positives, the gifts of the white
paper. are just stuff that was cut and then they're
bringing it back again. They are bringing it
back and I really hope that they do. I suppose
it's worth saying for any anxious parents at
home listening to this, these changes aren't
happening overnight and they're not happening
straight away for your child. Your child will
not lose their rights overnight. You were explaining
about the rollout of this because it's happening
over quite a long time. So it's happening over
the next 10 years essentially. When I spoke to
George Goulash, I asked about this. How is it
going to work? Because you want these things
to happen, but the existing system is going to
exist. So there will be a period of time where
schools are essentially double funded, where
they'll be getting a child's EHCP funding and
also this money for the white paper to implement
new stuff. So they do want it to work in some
ways. I just think they should have more money.
So yeah, the idea is that... By 2030, they want
to have children that are on existing EHEPs to
start having their EHEPs reviewed. The children
that will be reviewed are ones that are at transition
point. So ones going from primary to secondary
or secondary into post -16 college or wherever
they may go. And at that point in 2030, they
will start a period of review. There was an awful
lot of children in this country with EHCPs. It's
going to take a hell of a long time to review
them. And reviewing them won't be to automatically
say, oh, we're taking it away from you. It will
be to review the EHCP in line with these new
packages of support they put together. So currently,
if you or I were to have an EHCP, it would be
very personal to us. So all the provisions would
be recommended by specialists that had met us,
assessed us. We could put our EHCPs in, they
look very, very different, even if we had the
same need in the same school, etc. What the government
are proposing is that there's going to be seven
packages of support. And if you have an EHCP,
you would have, I don't know, package number
one, because that would most meet your needs.
If you have complex needs or mixed needs, you
could have a bit of package number one and a
bit of package number two. And that is... what
they will be reviewing. Where do we put these
children? What package do they sit under? And
then if there is a issue or the child doesn't
meet a certain package or any of the packages,
that might be when they're saying, okay, well,
maybe they should be not having the HCP because
their needs are not at such a high level and
they would go down, not down, they would... We're
given something called an ISP, which is an individual
support plan, which basically exists already.
It's like an IEP that we have in school. The
only difference with it is that children will
have a legal right to have one. So if parents
request it and they have a level of need that
is appropriate, then they will have an ISP. Whereas
at the moment, IEPs just tend to be bits of paper
that schools write provisions on. They're supposed
to get ready for meetings. Some schools are really
good and they've got really thorough, robust...
individual education plans, but others, it's
just a piece of paper. So that's a positive,
that that's going to get a bit more robust. That's
kind of the trajectory of it, but as you mentioned,
the most important thing that parents can do
now is not sort of settle and be like, okay,
well, this is the right paper, it's going to
happen. The consultation closes in May. So yeah,
the most important thing for parents to think
about is... protesting, making noise around this,
so making sure that they have their voices heard
around what they feel is right for their children.
And there's an amazing group called Save Our
Children's Rights. They are on Instagram, they've
got a website, and it's a whole range of different
people from the SEN space. So we're involved,
especially these jungles involved, for example,
and they're organising protests across the country
to really kind of raise awareness around how,
if we're going to change the SEN system, fine,
but let's change it for good and change it to
something that's fun. as opposed to trying to
save money trying to reduce legal rights or try
and make it so that it's not so much a supportive
process but one that parents are again having
to fight for so yeah I would keep an eye out
for those events even if you can't go along it's
worth you know just talking to people about it
I think that's what's really handy for people
like me is when parents say oh I don't know I
told the mums outside school today about what's
going on with the white paper or I don't know
I told the postman about it People need to be
aware of it and we need to kind of make it something
that everybody talks about as opposed to, oh,
my child isn't or doesn't have special educational
needs, so I don't need to talk about it. And
that's not the case at all. Inclusion is a huge
part of the education system as a whole. So if
you have a child, if your child goes to a school
that's not inclusive, they're going to be impacted
by that as well. So it's definitely an everybody
issue. When the white paper came out, there was...
a reasonable amount of media attention but it
was also the same day when Lord what's his name
Lord Mandelson was arrested so I was like yes
we're gonna have a media day we're gonna have
loads of attention everyone's gonna want to know
about the white paper and it was just ruined
by some silly old man it's true though isn't
it because so many of the people that are on
the ground doing the work either as teachers
in schools or as parents they're the ones that
are busy on the ground they're the ones that
maybe don't have the capacity to Go to an event
or, you know, so it's crucial that the allies
amongst us that do have the capacity to share
their voice, to be heard, to go to these events,
do so on your friends, your colleagues, your
family's behalf, because then that's the only
way that these very vulnerable voices, and I
don't use that term lightly, will be heard. So
many of our learners don't. have speaking voices
for a start so that leaves them incredibly vulnerable
for their opinion on all of this but also the
parents often are the parents are often voiceless
because they don't have the capacity the strength
the energy the know -how in order to all the
energy to fight this as well as doing you know
surviving in the system that is already broken
on social media for its skills is a really really
positive space when it comes to special educational
needs and for those parents that you say that
can't go to a protest they can maybe grab five
minutes on their phone to share something or
send something to somebody that wasn't necessarily
aware of it so there's a really positive supportive
and kind of proactive community on social media.
kind of in the SEN space so that's another way
of making people aware is sharing stuff and we
do loads of stuff on Instagram under the SEN
expert but also we work with the Save Our Children's
Rights as well so if you see any of our stuff
just share it so that somebody someone might
not even know what's going on so yeah it's really
important I think to share it and I mean I was
in the park at the weekend and was explaining
it to a mum and I was like oh yeah there's a
lot going on like the the legal rights of our
most vulnerable children are up for debate. And
she said, oh, well, that doesn't sound like a
very Labour -y thing to do. And I was like, you
are exactly the person that I need to explain
this to because it doesn't matter what the political
leanings are of the party, that what they're
doing is happening and we need to make people
aware. And I think people maybe were resting
on their laurels of, oh, a Labour government
officer, they're going to be very supportive
for children with additional needs. And that,
yeah, not necessarily the case. No, not necessarily.
And what they are saying, what they're doing
and what will actually happen in 10 years. I'm
really, I am hopeful. I don't know if you are.
I'm really hopeful that this will work. And,
you know, mainstream schools will get supported
and these learners will be able to experience
inclusion and experts will be accessible. I'm
really hopeful of that. But I'm also not stupid
and I'm really passionate about spreading the
word on, you know, doing everything we can in
order to. get the funding we needed in order
to make that possible. I think I sometimes when
I'm trying to explain I sound like I'm being
very negative but it's not it's just that so
many of the people that I work with have had
such awful awful experiences and I just want
it to be right for them and I don't want things
to change and it be short -sighted or change
and actually children have less support. We're
in a pretty dire situation anyway. So hopefully
things can only get better. And with everything,
when stuff changes, it makes people nervous.
And I think that's what we're seeing a lot of
at the minute. Definitely with my family, there's
anxiety around, we don't know what's going to
happen. And you kind of jump to the worst case
scenario. The best case scenario for me would
be it works and it's fully funded and everything
is lovely. But yeah, the last 10 years has been
proof that actually it's quite a complex thing
to get right. And people talking about it is
the first step, I think, in that process. Because
for many years, it wasn't something that was
talked about. And it was only the parents of
children with additional needs that were aware
of these kind of fights that they had to go through.
So getting everyone talking about it is really
important. In the meantime, as it were, you know,
I want to be practical about this. Again, I don't
just want to sit back on it. So it's great to
share on social media. It's great to follow accounts
that are following this stuff, that are speaking
to the government, that are sharing accurate
information and advice rather than some quite
confusing or conflicting advice. It's really
important that we're doing that. It's important
that we're attending protests. It's important
that we're having our voice heard. It's important
that we're talking to MPs. Is it also important
on that yearly annual review of an EHCP to make
sure it's as robust as possible so that when
it is reviewed, it's accurate so that accurate
information is being judged on whether they should
have it or not? Because so often a child will
have an unchanged EHCP for years and years and
it really isn't accurate anymore. Is that something
that you would support with? Definitely. So most
of our work is around EHCPs and making sure that
they meet the needs of the child at whatever
age they are at now. We do so many EHCP reviews.
I did one the other day with a boy who was in
sixth form and he has autism. He wants to apply
to go to Oxford and Cambridge. And one of his
EHCP outcomes was for him to be able to bounce
a ball. And he was like, I can bounce a ball,
but I'm also like applying to do biochemistry.
Oxford and Cambridge. So maybe that's more appropriate.
And I was like, it's just wild that these documents
are allowed to follow these children around and
they're so outdated. But yeah, we do an awful
lot of work with EHCPs. So we will review existing
EHCPs. We give them what we call a health check.
We also work with families right from the beginning
when they're applying all the way through to
their EHCP being finalized. helping them find
their school, preferred school as well. Making
sure, as you said, that the EHCP is really robust.
It is a solid representation of their needs currently,
but also essentially it's a contract between
local authority and school. So in Section F,
where you have all your provisions, you want
those provisions to be ones that are going to
have impact. You also want those... to be paid
for by the local authority so the school can
actually put in place what's being suggested.
And we see so many EHPs where that is completely
mismatched. So they're like, oh, people think
they've got a great EHCP because things are on
there, but if they're in the wrong section, it's
not actually a legal requirement. Yeah, so the
legal parts of an EHCP are sections B, F and
I, which is B is needs, F is provisions and I
is the name of the school. There also is space
on there for information from social care and
from health. And this is kind of the fallout,
I suppose, of the SEN Code of Practice 10 years
ago, or more than 10 years ago in 2014, is the
whole idea of an EHCP is it's meant to be a collaborative
document between education, health and care.
And what happened was it just fell at the feet
of schools. And health and care sometimes are
involved, but not so much. But the health and
care parts of an EHCP aren't actually legally
enforceable. A tribunal judge, for example, can
make... suggestions that health do something
but they can't force them to do something um
so yeah you have some plans where there's really
critical information about how a child should
be supported in school and it's just all over
the place and then you've you're arguing over
something that isn't right in the first place
to argue about i've had that a lot with Parents
trying to get their children into certain schools
where the schools say, oh, well, we can't meet
that level of need. And the parents say, that's
not their level of need at all. That's their
level of need when they were three and now they're
eight. Yeah, a lot. I hear a lot of schools refusing
learners at year seven because they're reading
an EHCP that was written when they were year
three. And it is so common that maybe these annual
reviews are happening, but it's not actually
going into the actual document. um and so many
of those things yeah that is incredibly common
so it's really important i suppose as a parent
maybe even your top priority in all of this should
be making sure that the documents that you do
have and the reviews that you do go to you know
you're having your voice heard and that you use
those two weeks after the review in order to
make those changes and advocate for those changes
and make sure that they go in and into the right
section and i suppose with your support they
could be confident that they've got that whereas
asking them to do it on their own i mean even
teachers like i've been in the job for 16 years
and i don't know if i would be confident to know
that i would definitely have it in the right
place in the right written in the right way so
how would a parent know yeah we work with parents
best case scenario is we get to meet a family
early on so we'll just go to the annual review
meeting with them and support school and making
sure that everything's completed or we offer
as i said the ehp review so we can do that at
any point during the year and we'll review the
document we have had some parents have come to
us in that exact scenario like we want to get
them into this school and they say the school
won't have them because we can't meet level b
but the ehp is wrong so we write addendums alongside
professionals that know the child so what the
ehp is sent to the school via local authority
but then we'll follow up and say well here's
a like a one pager this is what the child is
like now so this is what you should be thinking
about and most of the time schools are far more
open to reconsidering things and also you've
got some other schools especially mainstream
schools that can get sent a secondary school
can get sent 30 or 40 EHEPs to review and they
all have the same 15 days time to get back and
they have to sit there and unpick it and make
sure they're right making a really thorough decision
and they've got to think about the children they've
already got in school with EHEPs as well and
often those aren't fully funded anyway so it's
it's a tricky scenario but the best thing to
do as you said was to make sure that your EHEP
reflects your child because that's what's going
out in the world to to schools to other professionals
to kind of demonstrate their level of need, but
also what they need to help them thrive. Yeah.
On that as well, I suppose this summer term,
there'll be lots of parents that are still waiting
for that placement that are either hearing no's
from their preferred school or not hearing anything
at all. Quite often their SEN caseworker is still
working on it. And that can be an incredibly
anxiety provoking time. You don't feel like you're
being heard. You have no idea where your child's
going to go. You can't prepare them. You can't
offer transitions. A lot of fear comes around
it and a lot of exhaustion as well, a lot of
responsibility on the parents. I know you support
in that capacity as well. Do you mind speaking
a little bit about that? Yeah, so we work with
families to help them through the appeals process
as well. So if, let's use an example of a child
from year six going into year seven. If everything
has gone to plan and local authorities have done
all the jobs they're meant to do, you should
know what your secondary school should be in
February. A lot of the families we work with
are still in that horrible stage of limbo, either
whereby... Consultations have been sent to schools
and local authorities saying, oh, we're still
waiting to hear back. And you're kind of edging
closer and closer to the summer holidays. The
local authority has named a school that you are
not happy with and you're going down the appeals
route to go to tribunal to argue why your preferred
school is better than the one that the local
authority has suggested. In the main, local authorities
are going to name schools that are the cheapest
as opposed to the ones that meet the child's
needs the best. So if parents always kind of
remember that, I remember talking to a mum a
couple of weeks ago and she was like, I'm just
so, I don't understand how they think that can
work. Why have I got it so wrong? I was like,
you haven't got this wrong at all. child has
got these needs so that school's most appropriate
they're just trying to save money so if you are
in that kind of scenario you either have yeah
the appeals route or someone like me can come
along and work with the local authority to encourage
them to get consultation responses back because
the ideal is that you have your school named
in February you have some time to explain to
your child oh this is going to be your you know
your new secondary school let's get excited about
it and then you have the summer term for some
really robust transition and there's so many
children i worked with where they're heading
into summer holidays and they're saying goodbye
to i don't know year six or whatever and they
don't know where they're going it's awful even
for a child without additional needs imagine
how that makes you feel if you're at your i don't
know yes we had it actually we had our year seven
stay with us for the autumn term in year seven
because they It didn't feel right having them
leave when they didn't have a place yet. So we
ended up having a year seven car for our learners
until Christmas when they found out. But not
all schools can do that. It's not fair to us.
It was a primary, mainstream primary school.
It's not fair to us. It shouldn't be. It's an
absolute failure on the students and the families.
This is the third year now that I've seen this
pattern of children not finding out until at
least the summer. No, and I think also as a parent
of a child with additional needs, you kind of
get to that February point when everyone's finding
out what school place is. And if you don't hear
about yours, it's just a really kind of upsetting
and anxiety -making time. So at this point, we
are often working with parents in a couple of
different ways. One is supporting with... appeals,
helping them log the appeals, making sure the
appeals are brought forward so that actions can
take place before the school starts. We also
do an awful lot of advocacy work where we will
take on all of the admin of talking to the local
authority slash arguing with the local authority
or responding by email. So we say to parents,
give us all the information. We're going to sort
this. And I always, like some parents laugh,
I say, I'll ring you when I've got it sorted.
And then some parents really like that. Like,
yeah, just don't talk to me until you tell me
what the end result is. Others I work very closely
with. I'm talking to them every day. But that
level of support that we provide, I think, just
takes the pressure off parents because parents
are not only... probably got a full -time or
part -time job they're trying to parent a child
with additional needs and then suddenly they're
like a magically a an admin person and i'm at
the beck and call of every email or phone call
whatever from the local authority or from schools
or whatever um so yeah we take on all of the
stress so that parents can focus on just like
getting on with being a parent because when we
were all signed up to have children that sounds
really weird way of putting it but when we decided
to become parents we wouldn't be like I really
want to be a parent so I can write really spicy
emails to my local authority Yeah, there's enough
admin, enough emails and enough appointments
when you're an SEND parent, let alone with this
added pressure. And it's not, let's face it,
it's not responding to council and government
emails, pushing for an answer in the first place.
They're not coming to contact you. So sometimes
that's where the burnout comes from then, isn't
it? Whereas we need parents to be as strong and
as capable as possible to carry on for their
child. And the fact that you can take that load
off is just huge. And also, you know, the wording
and the legal rights and all of those things,
it maybe will have more weight from an outside
organisation. I think because, so there's 25
of us now all across the country. I think having
us take on the sort of the burden of it, that's
the wrong word, isn't it? works well because
local authorities oh god here they come i had
one local authority um email me and ask me to
stop working with parents in their borough because
we were winning too many appeals and i was like
i think now i don't think that's how it works
okay like thanks thanks for your email so yeah
sometimes just having an advocate or a service
like ours in your email thread or you say you
know I'm working with the SEN expert or my advocate
so and so from the SEN expert is going to attend
this meeting suddenly decisions happen a lot
quicker and I sometimes say to parents even if
they aren't clients of ours they'll have an advice
call with us and I'll say well just email them
and say that you're not working with us and see
what happens and then they just get what they
want so I think local authorities rely on a lot
of like you said burnout but they also hope that
parents can be fobbed off. And when we get involved,
they can't be fobbed off because we know the
law kind of inside and out and also have probably
worked with the local authority on another child's
case or worked with a school in a different capacity.
So yeah, sometimes just our little faces appearing
is enough. get things done hopefully yeah you
can open some doors and get some answers hopefully
which is oh god that's worth its weight in gold
isn't it let's face it um I suppose it's let's
think on a hopeful note I suppose what what is
your hope for if we're looking at SEND provision
over the next 10 years what do you hope that
that looks like I hope that. The government's
focus on early intervention stands true. There
are so many children with additional needs that
if they had support when they were really little,
they would be able to thrive in school as opposed
to just survive. So the focus on early intervention
is key, I think. Yes, putting more focus on the
mainstream is a very positive idea. Of course,
we want to have an inclusive education system.
We wouldn't want that. But we want to make sure
that it can happen in a way that's fully funded,
that is going to lead to positive outcomes for
these children and that they feel part of their
school community and they're actually in a space
where they can enjoy being at school and do what
their peers are doing. I think too often at the
moment we see where children with special educational
needs maybe are in a mainstream school but they're
there in kind of body but nothing else really
and they're kind of excluded by being included.
The government obviously are trying to lessen
the numbers going into specialist settings and
putting that down to the most complex children
and that's that's good that's fine but if the
most complex children are taking are having the
spaces in the SEN specialist settings great that
means that the mainstream settings that sit behind
that need to be robust need to have the experts
at hand system we need to have teachers that
are teachers of SEN not just teachers who aren't
kind of up for teaching children with additional
needs and we need to have a system whereby not
just teachers are inclusive but the students
are as well so it would be wonderful to go into
a mainstream I don't know primary school in 10
years time and you see children there with complex
needs but they're on their own path within that
setting thriving achieving maybe some qualifications
if it's the right level and they're part of the
community with I don't know a child that's just
done their SATs or whatever you know I think
inclusion is about having everybody feeling like
they're part of something and for too long RICN
children have been put in places where they don't
feel like they belong and then the system is
sort of crumbling because they're like well no
they don't belong and we can't meet their needs
and we're failing them and it's just an awful
feeling to to know you're doing a bad job but
it's not your fault that you're doing a bad job
so it's very waffly way I think that is exactly
right for children to feel like they belong and
to thrive in education whatever that looks like
for them I think is exactly what we need I mean
you can have a primary probably secondary school
is an easier way of explaining it but you can
have a secondary school where I don't know 30
40 percent of the kids are doing nine GCSEs or
whatever and heading off to do A -levels but
you can still have children in the building that
are doing functional skills levels or they're
doing a life skills curriculum just because what
they're learning is different doesn't mean that
they're not part of that community and I think
with the right funding I know all I do is talk
about bloody money but with the right funding
that is completely possible and with the right
attitude as well teachers want to teach everybody
not teachers that are i'm an scn teacher and
i don't teach so the benefit of that would be
if children are being educated in their local
school with local children around them it means
also that when they all become adults they will
also know everybody in the community so that
when there's an adult with with needs in the
local supermarket Everybody working at the supermarket
will remember them from school. Everybody in
the supermarket will remember them from school.
And it will be a more supportive community just
in general because these children will be seen.
And so often they're not. They're hidden away,
locked behind doors and in special provision.
And actually, what do we ultimately want for
the future of all these people that will become
adults? I'd love it to be a supportive, understanding,
inclusive actual community outside of school.
too i think actually teaching the mainstream
could provide that and i think what we often
don't realize is there's a lot of noise around
special needs children or children in schools
and then we kind of forget like you said about
the adulthood bit and there's just some crazy
statistics like 60 of people in prison have some
form of special education or need that's not
because their special educational need has caused
them to do something else because they've been
failed and let down and they've had nowhere else
to turn apart from, you know, a path of ending
up in prison. The amount that is spent on adult
social care is absolutely huge in supported living,
adult carers. And if we followed that model of
the early intervention... The government can
save money at that end as opposed to taking things
away from children in school. We can build children
up to be confident members of whatever community.
It's being spent anyway, isn't it? So spending
it in this early intervention stage just makes
so much more sense because otherwise it's going
to be spent further down the line. It sounds
really bleak, but... The amount of money it costs
for someone to be in prison is huge. And why,
if we invested in those people when they were
children, when they were in school, a huge part
of the prison population have speech and language
issues. So if the speech and language therapy
that was taken away 10 years ago wasn't taken
away, then that would have been a saving at the
other end when you now got all these poor people
in prison who, you know, yes, they may have committed
a crime or whatever, and that's not great, but
their needs weren't met. And they were let down
and then look where they've ended up. It's not
always their fault. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I know that people will listen to this. I know
that teachers, parents will be listening to this
thinking, this is exactly what I need. Whatever
reason, whether it's understanding more about
the systems that they're using in school or in
their workplace, maybe even they want to become
more inclusive or they've become a SENCO or they've
been a SENCO for a while and they want to improve
their knowledge on that or that they're a parent
and they're... exhausting themselves advocating
for these needs or incredibly anxious about what's
to come. I think all of those people, which is
basically my entire audience, will want to find
out more about you. Where can they find out more
about The SEN Expert? So the best place to go
is our website. So it's www .thesenexpert .co
.uk. On there is an explanation of all the different
ways that we can assist. We also have an absolute
ton of blogs on there that are written either
by myself or our experts. We have guests. writers
as well so it's just quite a healthy library
of resources if you want to have a read we also
have a little window that pops up so you can
book a advice call with us so our advice calls
are really good places to start it is with there's
four experts that do the advice calls they're
all experts in different areas of special educational
needs and that conversation is just firstly an
opportunity for you to offload and say I've got
this is happening and does it feel right What
do you think? And sort of talk to somebody that's
in the know. And then we can direct you to various
services that we have. We do offer services for
free for some families. And we also work with
schools and professionals in other capacities
too. If you are an Instagram person, which I
didn't used to be and now I have to be. We've
got a Instagram account at SEN Expert and every
day I will share a sort of tidbit of information
either about SEN current affairs. Sometimes we
do things around certain needs and how parents
can support children with certain needs doing
certain things. But it's a really kind of handy
resource. And one of my... families one of the
mums said to me the other day that when she is
queuing to get her coffee on the way to work
she always checks to see what real we've done
and that kind of gives her the bit of information
she needs to think about for that day also there's
loads of people on there who are in similar situations
it's just a really lovely community so the instagram
is is a good place to go we're also on facebook
and linkedin but i should really put more effort
i haven't quite got around to it so yeah i would
say go to the website um or instagram and on
our website as well is um the email address so
you can just email us it's amazing and I I just
know that just knowing that you're there if needed
could also give like reduce so much anxiety like
actually I'm handling it now but actually just
to have your email in your back pocket to know
that you know that is an option I think could
really ease a huge amount we have lots of families
that they stay with us for years so we will have
solved whatever big crisis was happening way
back when and then they'll sort of nip in and
say and just sort of check in because they're
like oh does this sound right i just want to
check if this email is provided correctly or
this happened at school what do you think and
they they're our families they're not you know
clients or whatever there are there are people
so yes having us in your back pocket can be quite
handy at times well it can be quite isolating
can't it so it's great to have different people
are telling you different things but they're
also people in positions of authority so you're
like well school told me this but that must be
right because I have a school and of course that's
happening right well the local authority told
me something else and that's what I think the
beauty of the SDN expert is is that me being
gobby in school meetings 10 odd years ago when
I just wanted to be honest and frank now I do
it as like my orb so just give me like the clear
-cut information that you'd need sounds amazing
thank you so much Claire for joining I know this
is a podcast that I will endeavor to share over
and over again I think to support parents in
my dms when I can't I don't have the capacity
or or knowledge to be able to support them in
that legal way that I think that you can so thank
you so much for that much thank you for having
me