WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.700 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.700 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.539 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:28.109 --> 00:00:30.829 Hello everybody and welcome to the Sensory Classroom 00:00:30.829 --> 00:00:33.729 podcast. My name is Jordan and today I am joined 00:00:33.729 --> 00:00:36.649 by Alicia Eaton who is an author and psychotherapist 00:00:36.649 --> 00:00:39.810 specialising in behaviour change. And today we're 00:00:39.810 --> 00:00:42.530 going to talk about the sensory side to food 00:00:42.530 --> 00:00:46.369 and eating. Trigger warning in this episode we 00:00:46.369 --> 00:00:48.929 discussed food anxiety and eating disorders so 00:00:48.929 --> 00:00:51.229 please take care whilst engaging with this episode 00:00:51.229 --> 00:00:53.409 if this would be triggering for you. We will 00:00:53.409 --> 00:00:55.369 leave helpful websites down below should you 00:00:55.369 --> 00:00:59.509 need to discuss and access support. Hi Alicia. 00:00:59.890 --> 00:01:03.009 Hello thank you for having me here today. Thank 00:01:03.009 --> 00:01:06.049 you so much I'm intrigued by this topic it's 00:01:06.049 --> 00:01:08.909 definitely something that's coming up in my classes 00:01:08.909 --> 00:01:11.689 and in my messages on social media again and 00:01:11.689 --> 00:01:14.069 again and again I feel like People are hearing 00:01:14.069 --> 00:01:17.189 lots of these buzzwords like ARFID and eating 00:01:17.189 --> 00:01:19.250 disorders, and they know it's kind of something 00:01:19.250 --> 00:01:21.590 sensory and anxiety. I'm really looking forward 00:01:21.590 --> 00:01:23.629 to getting deep into this conversation today 00:01:23.629 --> 00:01:26.870 and kind of clarify some things for my listeners 00:01:26.870 --> 00:01:29.930 of teachers and parents. First of all, can you 00:01:29.930 --> 00:01:32.530 introduce yourself a little bit about maybe your 00:01:32.530 --> 00:01:35.549 background and how you've come into this world 00:01:35.549 --> 00:01:38.010 of change in behavior and the interest in that? 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.560 I have a long history of working with children. 00:01:42.620 --> 00:01:45.040 I actually started 30 years ago. I trained as 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:48.500 a Montessori teacher and I ran my own school 00:01:48.500 --> 00:01:51.500 for five years. And after that, I became very 00:01:51.500 --> 00:01:55.439 interested in the psychological and emotional 00:01:55.439 --> 00:02:00.379 aspects of childhood. I have to say that going 00:02:00.379 --> 00:02:03.400 back all of those years, the idea that children 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:06.780 had a mental health was... considered to be slightly 00:02:06.780 --> 00:02:09.240 strange and unusual and odd and mental health 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:11.539 back in those days it was sort of seen that if 00:02:11.539 --> 00:02:13.620 you didn't have a mortgage or a job to worry 00:02:13.620 --> 00:02:16.680 about then children didn't experience stress 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:19.800 which of course we know the opposite is true 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:23.560 and so I worked at the Anna Freud Center where 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:25.919 they had a therapeutic nursery that was one of 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:27.919 the few places in the country at the time that 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.509 trained child psychotherapists. And then I went 00:02:30.509 --> 00:02:32.750 on to train as a conventional psychotherapist 00:02:32.750 --> 00:02:35.210 and also a hypnotherapist. And I did a lot of 00:02:35.210 --> 00:02:38.409 work in NLP. And I've had my therapy practice 00:02:38.409 --> 00:02:42.169 in London, in Harley Street for over 20 years 00:02:42.169 --> 00:02:45.509 now, and naturally started to see lots of children 00:02:45.509 --> 00:02:47.810 and childhood issues. But I'm very interested 00:02:47.810 --> 00:02:51.689 in behavior change. And I think because I was 00:02:51.689 --> 00:02:54.509 a teacher, I come at it more from an education 00:02:54.509 --> 00:02:58.590 point of view of how can we teach our children 00:02:58.590 --> 00:03:01.710 skills. what it is that they need to know. And 00:03:01.710 --> 00:03:05.330 also through my teaching, I was inevitably helping 00:03:05.330 --> 00:03:08.370 the parents understand what it is that they need 00:03:08.370 --> 00:03:11.189 to do and what it is that they need to say. I 00:03:11.189 --> 00:03:13.449 have obviously written lots of books because 00:03:13.449 --> 00:03:16.849 I want parents to continue the work that I can 00:03:16.849 --> 00:03:19.409 do in the therapy room. I appreciate, you know, 00:03:19.430 --> 00:03:21.889 what I can do in the therapy room is very different 00:03:21.889 --> 00:03:24.370 to what a parent can do at home. And I also understand 00:03:24.370 --> 00:03:28.360 the challenges. You know, childhood Home life, 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:31.400 the home environment, you know, it's messy. Let's 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:33.580 face it. We're all busy. You've got more than 00:03:33.580 --> 00:03:36.199 one child. How can you focus on one child's problems? 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:41.099 So in an ideal world and what an expert might 00:03:41.099 --> 00:03:44.860 be able to tell you to do is not necessarily 00:03:44.860 --> 00:03:50.060 what translates into real life at home. And that's 00:03:50.060 --> 00:03:51.919 where my books come into play. You know, I've 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.120 got several parenting manuals, just sort of. 00:03:55.469 --> 00:03:58.590 helping parents get a framework, get a sense 00:03:58.590 --> 00:04:03.289 of how to solve a particular problem. Yeah, I 00:04:03.289 --> 00:04:05.349 have found that I've read this book recently, 00:04:05.530 --> 00:04:08.189 Mind How Your Kids Eat, which is your latest 00:04:08.189 --> 00:04:10.469 book out. And I have found it really easy to 00:04:10.469 --> 00:04:13.490 navigate and really clear. There's not many, 00:04:13.650 --> 00:04:17.079 you know, big... science -y words in there you 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:19.519 know it's all very easy to understand it's broken 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:22.680 down like physically broken down into very very 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:25.459 clear and digestible sections so I can totally 00:04:25.459 --> 00:04:29.079 see now you explain the reason behind the books 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.180 it makes total sense you know it's um it's actually 00:04:32.180 --> 00:04:35.699 digestible for those that are coming at it on 00:04:35.699 --> 00:04:38.699 the ground I suppose yeah and I think a lot of 00:04:38.699 --> 00:04:41.720 books parenting books included tend to be very 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:45.100 heavily academically referenced and Parents are 00:04:45.100 --> 00:04:48.120 busy people. We actually don't have time to read. 00:04:48.220 --> 00:04:50.879 And also, you're not reading for interest. You're 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:53.060 reading for information. Tell me what to do. 00:04:53.139 --> 00:04:56.060 I have a problem. I need to fix it. And it was 00:04:56.060 --> 00:04:58.879 because parents would come to me and say, look, 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:00.839 I understand the problem, but just tell me what 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:03.800 to do. Tell me what to say. It was those two 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:06.060 things. And that's why I set it out in the book 00:05:06.060 --> 00:05:08.819 like that. Also appreciating that you're not 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:10.920 going to sit down and read a whole book in one 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:12.819 go because you don't have time. So it's bite 00:05:12.819 --> 00:05:15.110 -sized chunks. Yeah, and things that you can 00:05:15.110 --> 00:05:17.449 kind of dip in at any chapter should you need 00:05:17.449 --> 00:05:19.629 a certain thing, which I found really, really 00:05:19.629 --> 00:05:23.550 useful. Let's talk about food anxiety then. Why 00:05:23.550 --> 00:05:27.970 would a person grow anxiety around food? You've 00:05:27.970 --> 00:05:29.889 got lots of different reasons in the book. Do 00:05:29.889 --> 00:05:32.069 you mind going through a few of those? Yeah, 00:05:32.089 --> 00:05:35.170 for many years, I mean, let's face it, we're 00:05:35.170 --> 00:05:37.389 living in a more complicated food environment 00:05:37.389 --> 00:05:40.649 than we ever have before. You know, parents have 00:05:40.649 --> 00:05:42.750 a bigger challenge on their hands now. We have 00:05:42.750 --> 00:05:46.230 far too much food in our environment, let's face 00:05:46.230 --> 00:05:49.709 it. A lot of it is ultra processed, which means 00:05:49.709 --> 00:05:53.589 it's highly palatable, full of sugar, fat, you 00:05:53.589 --> 00:05:56.129 know, it's been engineered, chemically engineered 00:05:56.129 --> 00:06:00.269 to, you know, encourage everyone to eat more. 00:06:00.990 --> 00:06:06.709 I have a real issue with certain retailers who 00:06:06.709 --> 00:06:09.370 like to sort of put big signs up in their shops 00:06:09.370 --> 00:06:12.689 that say things like, this is not just food. 00:06:13.689 --> 00:06:16.889 That's a very well -known saying. This is not 00:06:16.889 --> 00:06:19.029 just food. No, you're absolutely right. It's 00:06:19.029 --> 00:06:21.410 not food. It's all sorts of other things. It's 00:06:21.410 --> 00:06:27.149 entertainment. You know, it's a toy. It's pleasurable. 00:06:27.290 --> 00:06:29.730 And that makes it more complicated when we come 00:06:29.730 --> 00:06:32.790 to feeding our children. We do have to be concerned 00:06:32.790 --> 00:06:35.290 because we have too much in our environment and 00:06:35.290 --> 00:06:38.769 a lot of it is not the healthiest stuff. However, 00:06:39.029 --> 00:06:43.490 we're also surrounded by a lot of messages, if 00:06:43.490 --> 00:06:46.089 you think about it, dieting messages. Our children 00:06:46.089 --> 00:06:49.579 are... Children absorb their environment. That's 00:06:49.579 --> 00:06:52.240 how children learn. It's unconscious learning. 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:55.160 So they are picking up on all the cues and messages 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:57.560 in their environment. And if they grow up in 00:06:57.560 --> 00:06:59.459 an environment where they are constantly hearing 00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:03.079 about how a lot of adults are overweight, all 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:05.970 the weight loss. jabs that are on offer now, 00:07:06.149 --> 00:07:10.110 the good foods, the bad foods. Inevitably, it 00:07:10.110 --> 00:07:12.730 sort of puts you on high alert. You know, hold 00:07:12.730 --> 00:07:14.790 on a minute. I heard somebody say that this was 00:07:14.790 --> 00:07:17.470 bad. This was wrong. I shouldn't be eating this. 00:07:18.189 --> 00:07:20.170 I just don't know where we're going to end up 00:07:20.170 --> 00:07:22.329 with this. I mean, I think that the weight loss 00:07:22.329 --> 00:07:25.629 jabs have given us an opportunity to perhaps 00:07:25.629 --> 00:07:29.879 have a reset. And let's stop and think. But we've 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:31.680 got to also start thinking about what kind of 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.800 learning do we want to pass on to our children? 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:38.560 Do we want to assume that it's okay to eat a 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:42.399 lot of ultra -processed foods and it doesn't 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:43.839 matter if you get overweight? Because if you 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:45.500 do get overweight, you can just have some weight 00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:50.939 loss medication to wipe it out. That is fine. 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:53.839 That's where we are now. But now that we are 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:56.579 here, let's start thinking about... how we want 00:07:56.579 --> 00:07:59.379 to do things for children. So I think a lot of 00:07:59.379 --> 00:08:02.420 anxiety exists because of that sort of confused 00:08:02.420 --> 00:08:04.759 messaging, which is all actually really quite 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:07.800 new for us. I mean, 10 years ago, we were not 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.160 talking about weight issues, ultra processed 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:14.000 foods and medications to the extent that we are 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.759 now. So even for adults and grownups, you know, 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:18.420 we're all having to sort of get used to this. 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:20.660 But the other thing that I used to see a lot 00:08:20.660 --> 00:08:24.279 of is Children feeling anxious if they had had 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:27.100 a bad experience, let's say about a food poisoning 00:08:27.100 --> 00:08:31.100 on holiday, or what is quite often, quite often 00:08:31.100 --> 00:08:33.120 that I see in the therapy room is a child that 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.539 comes into me and a parent will say they saw 00:08:35.539 --> 00:08:38.879 somebody being sick in assembly at school. And 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.159 that has now triggered the idea in their mind 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:45.980 that this may happen to them too. And so sometimes 00:08:45.980 --> 00:08:48.539 we get school refusal because of that. Because 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:51.240 what if I go and stand in assembly? Perhaps I'll 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:54.820 be sick too. Or they've had a sibling who has 00:08:54.820 --> 00:08:58.139 been unwell. And that has also triggered off 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:01.399 feelings of anxiety, which then translate into 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:04.580 not being able to eat so comfortably. Feelings 00:09:04.580 --> 00:09:08.200 of, you know, gagging, retching. But it's the 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:11.049 idea. that starts there. There doesn't necessarily 00:09:11.049 --> 00:09:13.730 have to be a physical reason. I mean, there might 00:09:13.730 --> 00:09:15.970 be a physical reason, like I said, illness, sickness, 00:09:16.309 --> 00:09:18.809 food poisoning, but it could just be that you've 00:09:18.809 --> 00:09:21.450 seen something. You've saw this happen to somebody, 00:09:21.590 --> 00:09:24.090 it looked dreadful, and now you're sort of panicking 00:09:24.090 --> 00:09:26.570 and worrying that it might happen to you. And 00:09:26.570 --> 00:09:28.710 the more that we panic and worry, then obviously 00:09:28.710 --> 00:09:31.009 the bigger the problem becomes. And all of a 00:09:31.009 --> 00:09:33.529 sudden at home, I can understand that the parent 00:09:33.529 --> 00:09:36.110 will be going, well, I have a fussy child. You 00:09:36.110 --> 00:09:37.730 know, all of a sudden they're not eating this 00:09:37.730 --> 00:09:40.200 particular food. and we start experimenting with 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:43.759 food or we start getting exhausted and exasperated. 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.159 I've always cooked this for you. You've never 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:49.179 said no before. What's the problem now? And children 00:09:49.179 --> 00:09:52.659 being children, they don't always have the vocabulary, 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:55.879 the language. They can't necessarily describe 00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:58.620 what it is that they're really feeling. Maybe 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:01.419 it's not the shepherd's pie that they're turning 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:03.519 their nose up at, but maybe the thought inside 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:07.190 their mind is, what happens if I'm sick? Who's 00:10:07.190 --> 00:10:09.769 going to take care of me? If I eat food, I saw 00:10:09.769 --> 00:10:11.909 a friend eating some food and that happened. 00:10:11.970 --> 00:10:14.830 Will this happen to me? And so it's more about 00:10:14.830 --> 00:10:17.110 the anxiety than the food. The food is irrelevant, 00:10:17.409 --> 00:10:21.129 really. So what is interesting is I used to see 00:10:21.129 --> 00:10:24.009 a child like that in my therapy room, maybe once 00:10:24.009 --> 00:10:27.389 every few months, every couple of months or so, 00:10:27.429 --> 00:10:30.429 I would have somebody coming in. But after the 00:10:30.429 --> 00:10:34.669 pandemic, all of a sudden, you know, I suddenly 00:10:34.669 --> 00:10:38.000 see eight children. in just a few weeks. And 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:39.759 I'm thinking to myself, where is this coming 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:42.799 from? And again, I think it's just all the messages 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:45.500 that we heard at around that time. You know, 00:10:45.539 --> 00:10:48.879 we obviously necessarily had to be conscious 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.720 of germs, sickness, illness, and ultimately death. 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:56.019 I mean, every single day on the news, we would 00:10:56.019 --> 00:10:59.139 hear the figures of how many people had died. 00:11:00.169 --> 00:11:02.990 Again, children, we were cocooned away at home 00:11:02.990 --> 00:11:05.929 and children were absorbing those messages. Do 00:11:05.929 --> 00:11:09.190 I think that is what is driving ARFID? We've 00:11:09.190 --> 00:11:13.169 mentioned ARFID, avoidant restrictive food intake 00:11:13.169 --> 00:11:18.090 disorder. This was only recognised as a mental 00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:22.190 health disorder back in 2013. So it's relatively 00:11:22.190 --> 00:11:25.210 new. Our understanding of the subject has grown. 00:11:25.309 --> 00:11:28.960 So perhaps that's why. We are seeing more and 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.659 recording it. Yeah, I can definitely look back 00:11:31.659 --> 00:11:33.320 through my time. I didn't know what it was, but 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:36.659 I've always in my 20 years of career, always 00:11:36.659 --> 00:11:38.980 had children with ARFID. It's only in the last 00:11:38.980 --> 00:11:41.100 few years that we've been calling it what it 00:11:41.100 --> 00:11:44.399 is before we always called it a fussy eater. 00:11:44.539 --> 00:11:46.789 But looking back. I mean, I had children that 00:11:46.789 --> 00:11:50.009 only ate rich tea biscuits. Like it was clearly 00:11:50.009 --> 00:11:52.889 more than fussy eating. There was a sensory, 00:11:53.070 --> 00:11:55.149 you know, they were autistic. There was a sensory 00:11:55.149 --> 00:11:58.990 need there. And it was a total restriction and 00:11:58.990 --> 00:12:01.750 limitation on the food that they were eating. 00:12:01.789 --> 00:12:04.789 Far more than a fussy eater. So it's really interesting 00:12:04.789 --> 00:12:06.110 looking back at my career. Now we've got the 00:12:06.110 --> 00:12:08.570 language and more understanding on it. I can 00:12:08.570 --> 00:12:11.250 kind of look back and reflect. Yeah. And also, 00:12:11.429 --> 00:12:16.360 you know, I, as I write in the book. I was also 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:19.960 a mother of a child with ARFID. He's very grown 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:24.720 up now. He's in his 30s. So I know what it's 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:27.799 like to be a mother with a child that is going 00:12:27.799 --> 00:12:30.559 through this. And inevitably, everybody wants 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:32.659 to sort of suggest that you've done something 00:12:32.659 --> 00:12:35.559 wrong or you're not getting it right. I think 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:37.860 that's a mother's natural instinct, even if nobody's 00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:40.259 saying that in words. I think it's a mother's 00:12:40.259 --> 00:12:42.649 instinct to naturally... put it on you that you've 00:12:42.649 --> 00:12:45.549 got to fix this because ultimately it's your 00:12:45.549 --> 00:12:48.649 job to support your child to be as healthy as 00:12:48.649 --> 00:12:51.090 possible and if you're not able to get them to 00:12:51.090 --> 00:12:52.850 eat I mean that feels like such a fundamental 00:12:52.850 --> 00:12:56.610 issue doesn't it in in you've got to fix I think 00:12:56.610 --> 00:12:59.149 mothers can take that on and parents in general 00:12:59.149 --> 00:13:03.460 can take that on to be responsible Yeah, for 00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:05.860 fixing that, which can be really tricky when 00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:08.980 the supporting network around you of professionals 00:13:08.980 --> 00:13:11.259 don't really understand what the condition entails. 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:13.559 And I've heard that a lot before, people going 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.779 to GPs and not really knowing what ARFID is. 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.440 Yeah. And I obviously, you know, with my son, 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:23.200 I would never have used the phrase ARFID. Looking 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:26.720 back now, I think we have a lot of hypermobility 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.139 in our family. And so it's not just neurodivergence. 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:33.269 It's also conditions like... hypermobility which 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:35.750 is getting up think about that in the book i 00:13:35.750 --> 00:13:37.250 found that fascinating it's something i've never 00:13:37.250 --> 00:13:39.789 heard about are you all right explaining how 00:13:39.789 --> 00:13:42.370 that comes into play with food because that was 00:13:42.370 --> 00:13:45.490 real new knowledge for me yeah so hypermobility 00:13:45.490 --> 00:13:49.570 um it's something that just runs in my family 00:13:49.570 --> 00:13:53.649 and is becoming more widely recognized you know 00:13:53.649 --> 00:13:56.470 just just backtracking a little bit i know there 00:13:56.470 --> 00:13:58.129 are a lot of people that would be sort of what 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.080 Are we just labeling things? Does it really help? 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:04.019 Are we just doing this for the sake of it? I 00:14:04.019 --> 00:14:07.519 would say, yes, it does help. Because as soon 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:09.759 as you have a little bit more understanding, 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:13.419 I wish that when all those years ago, when I 00:14:13.419 --> 00:14:16.519 was struggling with my son and his eating issues, 00:14:16.700 --> 00:14:19.820 that I'd had a book like mine. That was exactly 00:14:19.820 --> 00:14:22.440 the book that I needed. And I needed to hear 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:25.879 that actually, it wasn't me. It was, yes, there 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.419 is a name for it. I mean, does a name really 00:14:28.419 --> 00:14:30.539 matter? Well, no, it doesn't. But at least I 00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:34.080 know what I'm dealing with. But hypermobility 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:37.830 is exactly the same thing. It's a laxity in the 00:14:37.830 --> 00:14:40.909 connective tissues in the body. It used to be 00:14:40.909 --> 00:14:44.129 referred to as hypermobility joint syndrome. 00:14:44.269 --> 00:14:46.070 So we would think that, okay, fine, if you had 00:14:46.070 --> 00:14:48.669 hypermobility, you would just be double jointed 00:14:48.669 --> 00:14:51.289 and would probably become a good gymnast and 00:14:51.289 --> 00:14:54.149 be good at yoga one day. And you could probably, 00:14:54.269 --> 00:14:56.370 you know, do all sorts of interesting things 00:14:56.370 --> 00:14:59.070 with bending your fingers back. But we have a 00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:01.049 greater understanding now. It's more to do with 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:04.500 the connective tissues. inside your body as well 00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:08.440 as those just in your bones, in your skeleton. 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:12.299 And so it can cause reflux. You could have a 00:15:12.299 --> 00:15:16.539 very sicky baby. My son was very dribbly. Why 00:15:16.539 --> 00:15:20.580 was he constantly dribbling? I used to say this 00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:24.279 to the doctors. I have the dribbliest, sickiest 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.840 baby going. It's like, well, babies are sick. 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:31.080 Babies do dribble. Through my wider work, because 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.759 I do a lot of work with bedwetting children as 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.240 well, we know that it can affect bladder control. 00:15:37.539 --> 00:15:41.980 It can cause constipation just simply because 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:46.460 the muscles throughout your bowel aren't working 00:15:46.460 --> 00:15:53.240 as strongly and effectively as they can. The 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:56.259 bowel, the constipation, the wetting, all of 00:15:56.259 --> 00:15:58.659 these are also symptoms that I see in my learners 00:15:58.659 --> 00:16:01.960 that I've never connected that could also be 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:06.139 attributing to how they manage food. It's so 00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:08.220 interesting because I'm definitely seeing that 00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:10.480 in my learners. They often need more alcohol 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:14.299 to support. They are often in pads, you know, 00:16:14.299 --> 00:16:16.159 maybe have a lack of awareness or understanding 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:19.220 of when they need to go to the toilet. It's so 00:16:19.220 --> 00:16:22.139 interesting to hear that these things are linked. 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:24.779 And looking back, of course they are because 00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:26.700 they come up so often in my class, but I've never 00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:28.879 considered the two. I've always just put them 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:32.299 under the umbrella of sensory interoception and 00:16:32.299 --> 00:16:34.240 a lack of awareness of their body and all of 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:36.559 those things. But of course they're linked. Of 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:39.120 course there's a reason. That makes a lot of 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.139 sense to me, hearing you explain it like that. 00:16:41.549 --> 00:16:43.970 And there are things that you can do. I encourage 00:16:43.970 --> 00:16:46.669 parents to think about the environment that they 00:16:46.669 --> 00:16:50.330 are raising their children in. As adults, we 00:16:50.330 --> 00:16:54.690 can all remember times of childhood eating. You 00:16:54.690 --> 00:16:56.789 know, our minds naturally flip back. I've also 00:16:56.789 --> 00:17:00.429 done a huge amount of work with overweight adults. 00:17:00.610 --> 00:17:05.849 So for weight loss programs, everybody can pinpoint 00:17:05.849 --> 00:17:09.109 a time in the past when I was teased for having 00:17:09.829 --> 00:17:12.789 you know, fat thighs or we weren't allowed to 00:17:12.789 --> 00:17:15.349 have sweets and that's why I crave them now. 00:17:15.549 --> 00:17:17.710 Or we had to finish everything on the plate. 00:17:17.769 --> 00:17:20.690 So even if I didn't want it, I have even worked 00:17:20.690 --> 00:17:23.289 with, I find this astonishing because I kind 00:17:23.289 --> 00:17:26.849 of thought that those types of things went out, 00:17:26.890 --> 00:17:28.990 you know, donkeys years ago and that there's 00:17:28.990 --> 00:17:30.750 absolutely no way that anybody would be raised 00:17:30.750 --> 00:17:34.029 in that way now. But I still to this day work 00:17:34.029 --> 00:17:36.380 with adults who will say. that, you know, they 00:17:36.380 --> 00:17:38.240 didn't finish everything on their plate, that 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:40.359 sometimes, you know, the plate was put into the 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:42.539 cupboard and it would be brought out again for 00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:45.200 breakfast. I mean, really? Does that actually 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.299 happen? And the thing is that memory stick, you 00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:51.759 know, the habits and... behaviors that you pick 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.819 up in childhood become deeply imprinted on your 00:17:54.819 --> 00:17:57.380 subconscious mind. They're almost tattooed there. 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.000 And so I sort of try to encourage parents when 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.259 you're thinking and planning meals, let's focus 00:18:02.259 --> 00:18:05.400 less on the, well, is it broccoli? Is it the 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.940 healthiest food that they could be eating right 00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:11.640 now? If you have a child that's struggling with 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:13.859 eating and you have some food issues and think 00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:16.380 a little bit more about the environment. What 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:18.980 kind of memories do you want them to be taking 00:18:18.980 --> 00:18:22.460 away from childhood into their adult life? I 00:18:22.460 --> 00:18:24.740 always say the menu can be changed later on. 00:18:25.299 --> 00:18:29.339 You know, my son, he ate fish fingers, peas and 00:18:29.339 --> 00:18:32.880 sweet corn every single day for, you know, I've 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:35.880 lost track. Even on Christmas Day, I made a decision 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.259 when he was eight years old that we weren't going 00:18:38.259 --> 00:18:40.480 to fight and argue about it anymore. If that's 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:42.059 what he wanted to eat, then that is what he wanted 00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:44.920 to eat. And it was more about, I tell you what 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.160 really upset me as a mother, what upset me is 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:49.960 that he used to throw tantrums and would scream 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.299 and cry when we would go to new places. So going 00:18:53.299 --> 00:18:56.500 to friends' houses, trying to stay in a hotel 00:18:56.500 --> 00:18:59.559 for a holiday. There was no way we could go into 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:01.960 hotels because he couldn't bear the smells. Never 00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:04.539 mind sit down and eat something. So everything 00:19:04.539 --> 00:19:08.099 was a struggle. I was exhausted with all of that. 00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:11.869 came to a little agreement with him. We actually 00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:14.130 shook hands on this. I would stop talking about 00:19:14.130 --> 00:19:16.910 food. In fact, I would stop trying to suggest 00:19:16.910 --> 00:19:20.450 new things for him to eat. But, you know, please, 00:19:20.549 --> 00:19:22.950 your side of the bargain is stop the screaming 00:19:22.950 --> 00:19:25.650 and the tantrums and use a knife and fork and 00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:28.210 sit at the table and let's be calm about it. 00:19:28.390 --> 00:19:31.210 And he agreed. He agreed. We shook hands and 00:19:31.210 --> 00:19:34.170 things started to change from there. So I think 00:19:34.170 --> 00:19:36.920 it's... Let's take the pressure off the food 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:40.039 and think more about how we are eating, which 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:42.579 is in fact why my book is called Mind How Your 00:19:42.579 --> 00:19:45.259 Kids Eat. So I'm not talking about what you're 00:19:45.259 --> 00:19:47.619 going to be eating, because when you're a grown 00:19:47.619 --> 00:19:50.160 -up, you can eat more healthily. Yes, I know 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:52.119 we don't want to be eating sweets and treats 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.259 all the time, and we don't, but it's more about 00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:57.200 the habits and behaviours, because what you acquire 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:00.579 in childhood would stay with you for life. So 00:20:00.579 --> 00:20:04.720 having a calmer environment at the table. And 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.180 I always like the idea of making a meal of a 00:20:07.180 --> 00:20:11.599 meal. So that is laying the table, nice cutlery. 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.160 And because I'm a Montessori teacher, I will 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.920 always hark back to those Montessori days of 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.119 when we always had little flowers, a little vase 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:22.140 of flowers on the table. We would have, you can 00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:24.900 light a candle, you can play nice music, but 00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:28.339 this is a time when we come together. Now, if 00:20:28.339 --> 00:20:30.799 your child is only eating mashed potatoes, then... 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.640 fine i'm more concerned about how they feel in 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:36.759 that moment rather than the food that's on the 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:39.059 plate i love that and and you spoke about in 00:20:39.059 --> 00:20:40.700 your book about including them in the preparation 00:20:40.700 --> 00:20:43.720 of food as well you know that's great exposure 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:45.819 to foods even without the pressure of actually 00:20:45.819 --> 00:20:49.809 tasting it themselves is that idea of that social 00:20:49.809 --> 00:20:52.250 side of food because it is very social isn't 00:20:52.250 --> 00:20:55.309 it food not only the eating of it but the preparation 00:20:55.309 --> 00:20:58.809 as well so having them be involved in that could 00:20:58.809 --> 00:21:02.250 also expose them in a way without demand of actually 00:21:02.250 --> 00:21:05.450 tasting it I thought that was really great you 00:21:05.450 --> 00:21:08.450 also talk about sensory explanation so sensory 00:21:08.450 --> 00:21:12.170 seeking versus sensory sensitive and I thought 00:21:12.170 --> 00:21:15.250 that difference was very interesting. Are you 00:21:15.250 --> 00:21:17.670 okay? You start your chapter about the senses 00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:19.490 actually. I was quite interested that you go 00:21:19.490 --> 00:21:23.049 straight into the sensory seeking versus sensory 00:21:23.049 --> 00:21:26.750 sensitive child. So this also harks back to my 00:21:26.750 --> 00:21:29.289 Montessori days where we were very conscious 00:21:29.289 --> 00:21:32.250 of the fact that children's senses are developing 00:21:32.250 --> 00:21:34.750 and your senses really are the foundation of 00:21:34.750 --> 00:21:37.130 the intellect. So everything in a Montessori 00:21:37.130 --> 00:21:40.769 environment is geared up to enhance the development 00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:44.029 of the senses. So this is where it comes from. 00:21:44.150 --> 00:21:46.369 But of course, it's not a linear process if you 00:21:46.369 --> 00:21:48.190 think about it. You know, your senses don't just 00:21:48.190 --> 00:21:51.789 naturally develop. Yes, you can have, you know, 00:21:51.809 --> 00:21:54.329 one child that's particularly sensitive to smells 00:21:54.329 --> 00:21:57.670 today, but that usually dampens down. During 00:21:57.670 --> 00:22:00.750 the first six years of life, whilst they're in 00:22:00.750 --> 00:22:03.609 this developmental stage, you can get a few kind 00:22:03.609 --> 00:22:06.529 of ups and downs where tastes feel overwhelming. 00:22:07.789 --> 00:22:11.089 the sense of smell. So for some children who 00:22:11.089 --> 00:22:13.829 are sensory sensitive, I often say to parents 00:22:13.829 --> 00:22:15.849 when they come to see me, this is actually good 00:22:15.849 --> 00:22:19.730 news. If you have a child who is sensory sensitive, 00:22:20.109 --> 00:22:22.650 this is good news because it means that... In 00:22:22.650 --> 00:22:25.750 a way, their body, their mind is more alive to 00:22:25.750 --> 00:22:28.910 the environment around them. They are drinking 00:22:28.910 --> 00:22:31.970 in their environment, you know, the smells, the 00:22:31.970 --> 00:22:35.609 textures, the colors, the sounds. This is information 00:22:35.609 --> 00:22:39.269 that is actually creating their mind. And I usually 00:22:39.269 --> 00:22:40.910 say to them, it means you have a more intelligent 00:22:40.910 --> 00:22:44.089 child. You know, don't worry. But for sensory 00:22:44.089 --> 00:22:47.150 sensitive children who may be fussy eaters, sensory 00:22:47.150 --> 00:22:49.670 overwhelm. So I would sort of say, start with 00:22:49.670 --> 00:22:52.559 what feels safe. You know, if we have a safe 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.980 food, you can make gradual changes such as presenting 00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:58.980 it in a different way, perhaps change the brand, 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:02.539 perhaps alter the temperature. So the food itself 00:23:02.539 --> 00:23:05.799 hasn't changed. So the child can go, OK, fine. 00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:08.140 Yeah, I know what this feels like. This is my 00:23:08.140 --> 00:23:11.539 favourite. But eating in different environments 00:23:11.539 --> 00:23:14.599 too, you know, does it taste the same when you 00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:16.880 sit on a picnic blanket outside in the garden 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.299 under a tree? No, it's a different experience. 00:23:20.650 --> 00:23:22.710 I suppose like how you prepare the food as well, 00:23:22.750 --> 00:23:25.869 grated cheese versus cut cube cheese, I suppose, 00:23:25.950 --> 00:23:30.309 or how you cut an apple can maybe be different 00:23:30.309 --> 00:23:32.869 enough for a child without changing the whole, 00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:36.430 you know, taste and texture of an apple because 00:23:36.430 --> 00:23:38.309 there's so many varieties. Maybe keep the same 00:23:38.309 --> 00:23:41.130 apple, but prepare it in a different way. That's 00:23:41.130 --> 00:23:43.890 such tangible, great advice that you could action 00:23:43.890 --> 00:23:46.730 straight away. Yeah, and I used to do that with 00:23:46.730 --> 00:23:49.150 my son, that even though his passion was mashed 00:23:49.150 --> 00:23:51.589 potatoes, I wouldn't let him eat the same mashed 00:23:51.589 --> 00:23:54.049 potatoes every single day. That yes, it would 00:23:54.049 --> 00:23:56.069 be boiled potatoes one day, a jacket potato the 00:23:56.069 --> 00:23:58.609 next day. It might be chips on another day, but 00:23:58.609 --> 00:24:00.970 it had to look different. Okay, we're still eating 00:24:00.970 --> 00:24:04.569 potatoes, but I didn't want him just to get stuck 00:24:04.569 --> 00:24:07.930 in that same... Because then you can get sort 00:24:07.930 --> 00:24:11.369 of like an anxiety about altering and changing. 00:24:11.569 --> 00:24:14.720 So I mean, you can... There are lots of ways 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.279 that we can begin to explore food away from the 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.619 table, away from the plate. So you could have 00:24:20.619 --> 00:24:24.039 a food exploration party with your friends. Everybody 00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:26.440 comes around, you sit on, you know, I like sitting 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:28.680 on the floor, of course, with everybody. You 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:32.240 sit on the floor and we begin to explore strange 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:36.480 and unusual foods. Yes, you could have the real 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.420 fruit or whatever it is in your hand and you 00:24:39.420 --> 00:24:42.500 can talk about it, the colour, the texture, the 00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:45.019 size, the shape, or we can look on the internet 00:24:45.019 --> 00:24:47.700 and find unusual ones and print them off and 00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:50.160 cut them out and stick them in a book, whatever 00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.259 it is that we decide to do. But when we get a 00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:53.920 group of children, it could be a fun activity. 00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:56.940 We could also, we used to do this in the Montessori 00:24:56.940 --> 00:25:00.980 classroom, play guess the food. So you can either 00:25:00.980 --> 00:25:04.569 wear a blindfold. And just through feeling it, 00:25:04.630 --> 00:25:07.390 can you guess what it is? Or you can use one 00:25:07.390 --> 00:25:09.849 of those wash bags, you know, drawstring wash 00:25:09.849 --> 00:25:13.130 bags, and you can put different foods in there. 00:25:13.289 --> 00:25:16.569 So, I mean, obviously, banana is very easy to 00:25:16.569 --> 00:25:19.430 guess what it is, but then you can sort of alter 00:25:19.430 --> 00:25:21.630 it slightly and it can become more complicated. 00:25:21.910 --> 00:25:25.710 And by touching and feeling, you can kind of 00:25:25.710 --> 00:25:29.029 get a sense of... what it is. It's just a way 00:25:29.029 --> 00:25:31.390 of introducing food in a different way. In my 00:25:31.390 --> 00:25:33.990 classroom, we also used to have what I called 00:25:33.990 --> 00:25:39.089 smelling jars, which was matching the scents. 00:25:39.329 --> 00:25:42.430 So I used to have little jars that were see -through. 00:25:42.589 --> 00:25:43.890 I mean, if they're see -through, you want to 00:25:43.890 --> 00:25:45.809 sort of cover them up so that you can't see what's 00:25:45.809 --> 00:25:47.630 in there. But you could just use cotton wool 00:25:47.630 --> 00:25:51.470 balls and put, let's say, a nice lemon extract, 00:25:51.569 --> 00:25:55.069 let's say. You could have a minty essence. You 00:25:55.069 --> 00:25:57.609 can have... different drops that you can put 00:25:57.609 --> 00:26:01.490 onto the cotton wool balls, or you can have coffee, 00:26:01.630 --> 00:26:04.650 for example, and you create matching pairs. And 00:26:04.650 --> 00:26:07.190 then by sniffing and smelling, can you find the 00:26:07.190 --> 00:26:10.490 one that smells the same? And it's a game. And 00:26:10.490 --> 00:26:14.069 all of a sudden, you're becoming used to all 00:26:14.069 --> 00:26:17.150 of these different textures, sights, colors, 00:26:17.230 --> 00:26:19.470 and smells without actually having to put anything 00:26:19.470 --> 00:26:22.019 into your mouth. yeah it's just getting that 00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:24.519 comfortable that's where the anxiety comes from 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:27.559 is the idea of if it is the anxiety of putting 00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:29.480 into your mouth tasting swallowing all of those 00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:31.680 kind of things because as you spoke right at 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:33.380 the beginning it might be reflux it might be 00:26:33.380 --> 00:26:36.000 the idea of being sick it might be a difficulty 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.779 with the texture all those things disappear because 00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:42.279 we're not asking them to do that we're asking 00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:47.240 them to play explore be led by them. And I guess 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.539 the adults in that environment are also feeling 00:26:49.539 --> 00:26:54.000 less anxious. I assume that if the pressure was 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:56.640 to sit at the table and eat, not only is the 00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:58.299 child feeling anxious, but the parent trying 00:26:58.299 --> 00:27:00.880 to get them to eat is also feeling very anxious. 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.099 And I can imagine there's a bit of the opposite, 00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:05.319 whatever the opposite of co -regulation is, co 00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:08.240 -dysregulation, I suppose, in almost making each 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.539 other's anxiety is even more. Whereas if you 00:27:10.539 --> 00:27:13.200 both know, set the parameters of we are playing. 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:17.200 then the adult's anxiety can ease as well. And 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:20.279 also, you know, I encourage parents to have a 00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:22.960 weekly meeting. I love weekly meetings. You know, 00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:25.259 in every other environment, we have a meeting. 00:27:25.299 --> 00:27:27.539 People are meeting all the time. You know, you 00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:29.799 have work meetings, you have coffee mornings 00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:32.720 with your friends. And yet as families, we don't 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:34.799 meet. We don't meet and we don't discuss anything. 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:37.859 Everything's, we expect to fix things in the 00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:40.519 moment. So I think if you're really struggling 00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:43.779 with food, then having... a once a week meeting 00:27:43.779 --> 00:27:46.279 where we all talk about the food away from the 00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:48.119 table. It could be, even if it's in the back 00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:51.160 of the car, you know, we have. It's a really 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:52.960 great place for those tricky conversations I 00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:55.259 find because there's no eye contact. You're kind 00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:56.900 of, you're stuck in there together. You've got 00:27:56.900 --> 00:27:59.640 to have this conversation. Yeah. And sort of 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:02.640 planning, you know, meal times. Okay, fine. This 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:04.900 is what we're going to be doing this week. You 00:28:04.900 --> 00:28:08.740 know, so. If you do have a menu that's pre -arranged, 00:28:08.740 --> 00:28:11.259 pre -agreed, then you're less likely to have 00:28:11.259 --> 00:28:14.380 the arguments and the kickbacks, you know, or 00:28:14.380 --> 00:28:16.779 it's Tuesday, well, I don't like this, but this 00:28:16.779 --> 00:28:18.680 is what we agree. I love writing things down 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.079 as well, because then again, you can avoid eye 00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:23.279 contact. I always say that if you're having a 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:25.339 bit of a confrontational situation with your 00:28:25.339 --> 00:28:29.059 child, avoid eye contact. And, you know, then 00:28:29.059 --> 00:28:30.940 you can sort of look at the list and go, yeah, 00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:33.660 but we agree. Do you remember on Tuesday we said 00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:35.400 we were going to do this? And then the child 00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:38.380 doesn't take that so personally. And you can 00:28:38.380 --> 00:28:40.299 use that with non -speaking children as well. 00:28:40.299 --> 00:28:41.440 I was just thinking, you know, how can you have 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:43.259 a conversation with these non -speaking lads? 00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:45.720 You can use visuals. You can have all the food 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:49.079 options laid out as symbols or photos or even 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:51.700 the object, you know, the toy objects. And that's 00:28:51.700 --> 00:28:54.240 how you can have that discussion. and put them 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.859 in as a kind of timetable in a way so that they 00:28:56.859 --> 00:28:58.819 can anticipate what's going to come up. I think 00:28:58.819 --> 00:29:00.900 that could actually be incredibly helpful if 00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:03.160 it's decided together. Maybe a lot of the anxiety 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:06.240 comes from our learners having that little control 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:09.039 and say over their lives, and maybe they're wanting 00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:11.819 some control back. I know lots of eating disorders. 00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:14.839 come from a need for control. And there's no 00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:16.720 wonder that some of the learners in my class 00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:18.920 would be seeking that because my goodness, they 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.599 have so little control over their lives. So by 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.099 offering them, I suppose, ways of timetabling 00:29:24.099 --> 00:29:26.299 their food and choosing, having a choice of two 00:29:26.299 --> 00:29:28.500 even, a photo that they could choose could be 00:29:28.500 --> 00:29:31.440 really, really helpful. So yeah, I haven't considered 00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.720 that before, but having a conversation, however 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.640 that looks for you and your child could of course 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:38.220 be incredibly helpful. I've never considered 00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:41.279 that. You know, children are very intuitive. 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.160 You know, we can all walk into a room and sense 00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.240 the atmosphere and go, I don't know what it is, 00:29:48.259 --> 00:29:51.000 but there's something wrong here. And children 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:54.460 pick up on those kind of cues too. Was I, as 00:29:54.460 --> 00:29:57.839 a mother, was I anxious when I was putting food 00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:00.539 on the table? Absolutely, because I was expecting 00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:03.960 it to be, you know, sent back. Did that make 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:06.339 a difference? Probably. Yeah, I wish I'd been 00:30:06.339 --> 00:30:09.720 calmer. Because I'm more relaxed about it. And 00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:11.519 this is why I think the more that we talk about 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.779 it, the more open we are about it, the better 00:30:14.779 --> 00:30:17.519 it will be for parents. Because your child will 00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:21.720 pick up on your levels of anxiety, your expectations. 00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:24.460 But if we also sort of think very carefully about 00:30:24.460 --> 00:30:27.380 the language that we use when we speak to children, 00:30:27.460 --> 00:30:30.869 because words have... an impact on the images. 00:30:31.190 --> 00:30:34.349 Words create images inside our minds. And so 00:30:34.349 --> 00:30:36.990 we have to be careful to be inserting the right 00:30:36.990 --> 00:30:40.150 kind of images rather than wrong images. So things 00:30:40.150 --> 00:30:43.470 like, you know, well, just one, just one, just 00:30:43.470 --> 00:30:45.869 try, just one. It kind of suggests there's something 00:30:45.869 --> 00:30:48.950 wrong with it. Because if it was delicious, wouldn't 00:30:48.950 --> 00:30:51.470 you be saying, let's eat lots of it? But you're 00:30:51.470 --> 00:30:53.329 just saying, no, no, no, well, just one. You 00:30:53.329 --> 00:30:56.430 know, we have to be careful. I also like using 00:30:56.430 --> 00:31:00.190 the word when. Or once, you know, once we've 00:31:00.190 --> 00:31:02.829 tried one, then we'll find it so much easier 00:31:02.829 --> 00:31:06.390 to try the second and the third. Or when, when 00:31:06.390 --> 00:31:08.950 we've got used to sitting around the table and 00:31:08.950 --> 00:31:11.609 eating this particular food, you'll quickly discover 00:31:11.609 --> 00:31:16.509 how much easier it can be to do X, Y, Z too. 00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:20.140 and it's this is kind of conversational hypnosis 00:31:20.140 --> 00:31:22.960 and in the book i have got a little bit about 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:24.759 that i haven't been able to put everything in 00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:26.599 this book because i've written a whole other 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:28.880 book called words that work so if you're looking 00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:31.779 for words and language it's there and if you're 00:31:31.779 --> 00:31:35.519 specifically looking for techniques for reducing 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:38.400 anxiety because if you have got a child that's 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.210 feeling distressed because I have witnessed a 00:31:41.210 --> 00:31:43.630 friend of theirs being sick. And there are techniques 00:31:43.630 --> 00:31:45.630 in my other book, First Aid for Your Child's 00:31:45.630 --> 00:31:48.470 Mind. So it was a case of I had to sort of figure 00:31:48.470 --> 00:31:51.490 out what was it that I could put in. I had to 00:31:51.490 --> 00:31:54.490 keep it all around food, but I have got a whole 00:31:54.490 --> 00:31:56.170 book about words and I have got a whole book 00:31:56.170 --> 00:31:58.750 about anxiety too. But also one of the other 00:31:58.750 --> 00:32:01.049 things I've created in the book is what I call 00:32:01.049 --> 00:32:04.769 a psychosensory eating profile. Yes, I find that 00:32:04.769 --> 00:32:09.160 fascinating and so useful. Yes. It's a way of, 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.259 we talk about auditory, visual auditory kinesthetic. 00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.039 I mean, those terms are used quite widely throughout 00:32:16.039 --> 00:32:19.559 education. Now, we know that our children tend 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:21.680 to have preferences and it's going to be the 00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:24.039 same with eating. You know, what does your child 00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:26.079 like snacking on? What are their favourite foods? 00:32:26.380 --> 00:32:28.279 What about the colours? What about the textures? 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.119 What about the smells? Once you've gone through 00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:34.680 the profile and you've identified. what your 00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:37.519 child's preferences are, then you can think about 00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:41.039 what I've called psychosensory swaps. So, okay, 00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.960 fine. If you're one that, I mean, let's face 00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:47.339 it, the psychologists in the food industry have 00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:51.200 been very hard at work. They know that packaging 00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:55.000 chocolate in a purple wrapper, that is done deliberately 00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:58.609 because we like the color purple. They're not 00:32:58.609 --> 00:33:01.809 stupid. And so I'm sort of thinking, well, we 00:33:01.809 --> 00:33:03.970 should be doing the same. They know what it is 00:33:03.970 --> 00:33:06.809 that they need to do to get us to eat. And if 00:33:06.809 --> 00:33:10.009 we can start applying the same principles to 00:33:10.009 --> 00:33:12.930 identifying our children's preferences and strategies 00:33:12.930 --> 00:33:15.230 for eating, then all of a sudden we kind of go, 00:33:15.289 --> 00:33:17.250 okay, fine. Well, I'm, you know, these are your 00:33:17.250 --> 00:33:20.210 preferences that I'm not going, if you like hard, 00:33:20.309 --> 00:33:23.509 crunchy, crispy food, I'm not going to offer 00:33:23.509 --> 00:33:26.569 you a bowl of soup because it's just not going 00:33:26.569 --> 00:33:29.640 to match. your preference and so I've sort of 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:32.819 identified the psychosensory swaps that if your 00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:35.740 child listed them haven't you so you've put exactly 00:33:35.740 --> 00:33:38.700 that if you like the hard foods then you've put 00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:42.019 some ideas the chewy foods soft and fluffy cold 00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:44.599 you know you've got those a list of five ideas 00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:46.599 of things to go for and that does make sense 00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:49.440 to me rather than okay they They eat banana or 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.579 they're not necessarily going to like other banana 00:33:51.579 --> 00:33:54.059 type things or tomato type things. Maybe it's 00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:56.279 a texture thing rather than a taste thing or 00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:57.980 maybe it's a bitterness, sourness, sweetness. 00:33:58.259 --> 00:34:00.980 So, yeah, I loved the idea of starting from that. 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:04.660 And again, I suppose as parents, they're wanting 00:34:04.660 --> 00:34:09.130 a way in and they're not sure what. that is so 00:34:09.130 --> 00:34:12.289 they might refer back to the just one just one 00:34:12.289 --> 00:34:14.769 just eat this bit just that little bit there 00:34:14.769 --> 00:34:16.690 you know i'll get rid of all the rest of it i'll 00:34:16.690 --> 00:34:18.610 put it on a separate bowl just eat that you know 00:34:18.610 --> 00:34:20.389 it's all of that that's what we're seeing we're 00:34:20.389 --> 00:34:22.449 coming back to maybe what happened in our childhood 00:34:22.449 --> 00:34:24.809 and it's kind of learned in that way so i love 00:34:24.809 --> 00:34:26.809 the actionable steps of looking at it from a 00:34:26.809 --> 00:34:29.010 sensory point of view from the sensory profile 00:34:29.010 --> 00:34:31.599 and then it's individualized as well Because 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:33.840 I suppose social media is wonderful, but maybe 00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.000 we're seeing a parent's had great success with 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:37.619 offering a certain food, but then that's not 00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:39.739 our child. So then it won't work for us. And 00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:43.320 then maybe we become frustrated with that. Or 00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:44.920 maybe we're speaking to a friend who's had great 00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.739 success with offering these fruit snacks. And 00:34:47.739 --> 00:34:49.559 they, of course, don't work for our child because 00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:52.500 they've got a different sensory profile. So I 00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:55.659 suppose it's a great way of individualizing these 00:34:55.659 --> 00:34:57.380 needs and really knowing your child and what 00:34:57.380 --> 00:35:00.199 they enjoy and then knowing. how to use that 00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:03.340 to support them with broadening their eating. 00:35:03.940 --> 00:35:09.440 For my child, my son, he, as I understood later, 00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:13.179 he had a fear of being tricked. That somebody 00:35:13.179 --> 00:35:16.739 was going to mush up some vegetables and disguise 00:35:16.739 --> 00:35:21.460 it and trade it and he would be tricked. And 00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:26.099 so he came to every mealtime on high alert just 00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:29.880 in case. And I'm kind of, later on, I sort of 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:31.860 looked and thought, if only I'd known that at 00:35:31.860 --> 00:35:34.599 the time, because that would have solved a lot 00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:37.340 of the problems. Because I suppose if he'd have 00:35:37.340 --> 00:35:39.619 prepared the food with you, he'll know exactly 00:35:39.619 --> 00:35:42.480 what's in it and how it's prepared. I suppose 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:44.659 that's another reason why including your child 00:35:44.659 --> 00:35:46.880 in that preparation process is so important, 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.559 because they can see what's going into it, if 00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:51.880 that is where the fear is coming from. Yeah, 00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:54.219 but there are also ways of tackling the anxiety. 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:59.619 got nothing to do with food right i mean if if 00:35:59.619 --> 00:36:01.860 parents are interested then my other book first 00:36:01.860 --> 00:36:04.480 day yeah i think that's great does i'll leave 00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:06.619 it in the link below if you are interested in 00:36:06.619 --> 00:36:08.900 the words the anxiety i'll leave all of the links 00:36:08.900 --> 00:36:12.119 to alicia's books down below because i i feel 00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.099 like there is a lot of overlap of course there 00:36:15.099 --> 00:36:17.840 is um if they have food anxiety they've probably 00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:20.300 got other anxieties as well so i think that's 00:36:20.300 --> 00:36:22.639 probably great that you that you do look at the 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:25.780 range of of books to support your child. I suppose 00:36:25.780 --> 00:36:29.239 I want to ask you, because I just feel that people 00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:31.539 will be listening to this thinking, is this my 00:36:31.539 --> 00:36:34.579 child? Are they just fussy? Or is this half it? 00:36:34.659 --> 00:36:37.219 What would you say is the difference? Or how 00:36:37.219 --> 00:36:40.059 could a parent know if their child is a fussy 00:36:40.059 --> 00:36:43.219 eater or it's something a little deeper that 00:36:43.219 --> 00:36:46.579 they might not grow out of without support? Yeah, 00:36:46.579 --> 00:36:49.480 I think a fussy eater is someone who perhaps 00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:53.139 eats it one day, but not the next. Okay, there 00:36:53.139 --> 00:36:55.960 is a difference between just fussy eating and 00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:58.920 ARFID. Fussy eating, I suppose, would be a child 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:01.619 that eats peas one day, you know, refuses them 00:37:01.619 --> 00:37:05.059 the next. That's a bit more, fussiness is a difficult 00:37:05.059 --> 00:37:07.760 word, actually, because really, we are all entitled 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:12.239 to have preferences. If we all go to a restaurant 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.179 meal with a group of friends, we'll all choose 00:37:14.179 --> 00:37:15.840 something different. And I kind of think it's 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:18.539 about respecting the child too. Okay, fine. Why 00:37:18.539 --> 00:37:22.239 should you like the exact same foods that your 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:24.739 sibling does? But it's a case of having a balance. 00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:27.960 So, okay, fine. Is this just preference? This 00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:32.079 is what I prefer? Or is it that I am... I like 00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:35.489 to go... food fussiness, let's say, rather than 00:37:35.489 --> 00:37:40.150 a fussy eater. Let's think about, yes, okay, 00:37:40.250 --> 00:37:43.750 fine, it's fussy or picky, picky eater. And when 00:37:43.750 --> 00:37:45.829 you're a child, you're inevitably still learning, 00:37:45.929 --> 00:37:49.630 exploring. Like I said, the sensory development, 00:37:49.829 --> 00:37:53.170 we don't know, are you on a particularly high 00:37:53.170 --> 00:37:55.690 moment where you're going to start feeling overwhelmed 00:37:55.690 --> 00:37:59.570 by certain smells or textures? We don't know 00:37:59.570 --> 00:38:04.199 quite what's going on. I think with those kind 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:09.239 of scenarios, it's not linear. You know, we have 00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:12.239 differences. One day you are a good eater, the 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.059 next day, not so good. You go through a good 00:38:15.059 --> 00:38:17.639 phase of a couple of months of eating well, and 00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:19.380 all of a sudden, now you're having a little bit 00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:22.480 of a picky phase. So that is where I think it's 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:26.210 just general development. Whereas with our feed, 00:38:26.429 --> 00:38:29.690 this is consistent. It will probably be every 00:38:29.690 --> 00:38:33.570 day, every mealtime, and it's a bit more extreme. 00:38:33.590 --> 00:38:36.710 And it's got nothing to do with portion control 00:38:36.710 --> 00:38:41.170 or body image, but it's just more about the anxiety 00:38:41.170 --> 00:38:44.590 and the feelings of overwhelm. And it's not going 00:38:44.590 --> 00:38:48.449 to magically disappear. You know, if you've got 00:38:48.449 --> 00:38:50.750 it at home, you'll probably have it at the friend's 00:38:50.750 --> 00:38:52.789 birthday party when everybody's wolfing down 00:38:52.789 --> 00:38:56.289 pizza. It will continue. And, you know, I think 00:38:56.289 --> 00:38:58.070 it's also a case of saying, well, how much does 00:38:58.070 --> 00:39:02.250 this impact our lives? And if it begins to restrict 00:39:02.250 --> 00:39:05.510 where you can go out, like I said, to friend's 00:39:05.510 --> 00:39:08.530 parties or on holiday to hotels, then all of 00:39:08.530 --> 00:39:10.650 a sudden it's becoming something a little bit 00:39:10.650 --> 00:39:14.070 bigger. And what can people go for? When it gets 00:39:14.070 --> 00:39:17.389 to the point that nutritionally. the child wants 00:39:17.389 --> 00:39:20.429 to suffer because they really are not having 00:39:20.429 --> 00:39:26.250 enough food, then yes. One of the reasons why 00:39:26.250 --> 00:39:28.489 I wrote my book, First Aid for Your Child's Mind, 00:39:28.630 --> 00:39:31.869 is because I like to look upon these things as 00:39:31.869 --> 00:39:34.250 sort of like bumps, bruises and scrapes that 00:39:34.250 --> 00:39:37.630 you naturally pick up throughout childhood. Why 00:39:37.630 --> 00:39:40.889 would we not pick them up inside our minds too? 00:39:41.230 --> 00:39:43.110 You know, we think these are just physical things, 00:39:43.210 --> 00:39:45.900 but of course we inevitably have. bumps along 00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:49.119 the way. And you can, as a parent, you know, 00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:51.820 erase some of these things or soothe them. You 00:39:51.820 --> 00:39:55.159 can soothe your child's anxieties, fear and worries 00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.099 through some simple techniques. And I always, 00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:01.559 I prefer doing that than seeing children who 00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:03.420 come to me in the therapy room and the parent 00:40:03.420 --> 00:40:06.219 says, we've had this problem for the last five 00:40:06.219 --> 00:40:09.119 years. But I always say, why didn't we do something 00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:13.010 sooner? Because problems become more deeply entrenched. 00:40:13.210 --> 00:40:16.750 So if you feel that your child is just, you know, 00:40:16.769 --> 00:40:19.150 one day they're picky, but the next day they're 00:40:19.150 --> 00:40:21.809 fine, they don't want to eat very well at home, 00:40:21.829 --> 00:40:23.869 but they'll go to a friend's birthday party and 00:40:23.869 --> 00:40:26.309 quite happily walk down the food, then that's 00:40:26.309 --> 00:40:29.050 probably general pickings, shall we call it. 00:40:29.150 --> 00:40:32.730 But ARFID does become more serious when you see 00:40:32.730 --> 00:40:35.429 that anxiety or that worry when I get there. 00:40:35.510 --> 00:40:36.949 What happens when I go to my friend's birthday 00:40:36.949 --> 00:40:39.579 party? What will the food be like? What will 00:40:39.579 --> 00:40:42.059 they give me to eat? Then this is becoming a 00:40:42.059 --> 00:40:44.539 little more deeply entrenched. And if we do an 00:40:44.539 --> 00:40:48.280 early intervention, we can prevent it from developing 00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:51.280 into something more serious. If someone's listening 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:53.840 to this and thinking that is my child, that this 00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:55.719 is exactly my child, you are describing them 00:40:55.719 --> 00:40:58.840 completely. Where do they go? Where's the best 00:40:58.840 --> 00:41:01.500 course of action, I suppose, in order to get 00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:03.360 the support that they need? Is it the book and 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:05.760 could they do it themselves or would you suggest 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:08.400 something different? I mean, definitely start 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:10.039 with the book because the more knowledge you 00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:14.519 have, the easier it is to sort of see where you 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:18.019 need to go next. So definitely, yes, mind how 00:41:18.019 --> 00:41:21.320 your kids eat. And if we're drifting into extreme 00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:23.880 anxiety, then first aid for your child's mind 00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:27.119 too. After that, yes, I mean, there are specialist 00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.579 practitioners. You can, I know that there are 00:41:31.579 --> 00:41:34.480 ARFID charities now that will offer support. 00:41:35.210 --> 00:41:38.170 and advice and to see if you can find a practitioner 00:41:38.170 --> 00:41:41.949 who can help with this. What we're looking for, 00:41:42.010 --> 00:41:44.510 and this is something that I'm developing actually 00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:48.150 as my next project, is looking at how to get 00:41:48.150 --> 00:41:51.599 the right sort of therapy for children. Because 00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:54.380 it isn't just a sort of a listening, you know, 00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:56.960 a nice, friendly psychologist is going to listen 00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:59.300 to the problem. Because you probably, this is 00:41:59.300 --> 00:42:02.579 what I had when my son was three years old. We 00:42:02.579 --> 00:42:05.599 were referred to a food psychologist at the hospital. 00:42:06.460 --> 00:42:10.159 And all I can say is that they were very pleasant 00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:13.059 chats on a weekly basis. But did it make any 00:42:13.059 --> 00:42:15.619 difference? No, it didn't. Because we didn't 00:42:15.619 --> 00:42:18.380 really truly understand what he was experiencing 00:42:18.380 --> 00:42:20.980 on the inside. I mean, thanks to the developments, 00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:23.599 let's say, in the field of neuroscience in the 00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:26.840 last 10, 15 years, yes, we do have a better understanding 00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:28.960 now. And so we need to kind of move with the 00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:32.239 times and offer different sorts of therapy for 00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:35.300 our children. Thank you. I'd love to, before 00:42:35.300 --> 00:42:38.099 we close off, I'd love to read to everybody. 00:42:39.070 --> 00:42:41.050 a gentle thought to take with you from the book. 00:42:41.170 --> 00:42:42.650 I just think they're lovely all throughout the 00:42:42.650 --> 00:42:46.070 book. After each chapter, Alicia writes a gentle 00:42:46.070 --> 00:42:47.429 thought to take with you. So I thought I would 00:42:47.429 --> 00:42:49.489 read that before we close off today, if that's 00:42:49.489 --> 00:42:53.030 okay. It says, when a child's fear shows up around 00:42:53.030 --> 00:42:55.769 food or anything else, it's rarely about logic. 00:42:55.809 --> 00:42:59.130 It's about safety. Their world has shifted and 00:42:59.130 --> 00:43:01.510 they need time and reassurance to feel steady 00:43:01.510 --> 00:43:04.170 again. Rather than pushing them to confront the 00:43:04.170 --> 00:43:06.929 fear head on, the greatest gift we can offer 00:43:06.929 --> 00:43:10.530 is calm understanding. When children feel truly 00:43:10.530 --> 00:43:13.630 safe, their confidence returns often more quickly 00:43:13.630 --> 00:43:15.769 than we expect. And I thought that was a lovely 00:43:15.769 --> 00:43:17.630 message of hope that anybody listening to this, 00:43:17.750 --> 00:43:19.489 that can really resonate with what you've been 00:43:19.489 --> 00:43:23.409 saying today. Yeah, that can be a message of 00:43:23.409 --> 00:43:26.760 hope. I think that change is possible. If people 00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:28.079 are listening to this and want to find out more 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:29.719 about the books, I'm going to leave those links 00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:32.420 below and I'll leave the links to everything 00:43:32.420 --> 00:43:38.260 that you share online, your website and all of 00:43:38.260 --> 00:43:40.619 your links down below. So if you want to find 00:43:40.619 --> 00:43:42.539 out more about Alicia Eaton, the other books 00:43:42.539 --> 00:43:45.019 and everything will be there. Thank you so much 00:43:45.019 --> 00:43:47.400 for sharing your wisdom with us today. Thank 00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:48.320 you so much. Thanks.