Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome to the Sensory Classroom
podcast. My name is Jordan and today I am joined
by Alicia Eaton who is an author and psychotherapist
specialising in behaviour change. And today we're
going to talk about the sensory side to food
and eating. Trigger warning in this episode we
discussed food anxiety and eating disorders so
please take care whilst engaging with this episode
if this would be triggering for you. We will
leave helpful websites down below should you
need to discuss and access support. Hi Alicia.
Hello thank you for having me here today. Thank
you so much I'm intrigued by this topic it's
definitely something that's coming up in my classes
and in my messages on social media again and
again and again I feel like People are hearing
lots of these buzzwords like ARFID and eating
disorders, and they know it's kind of something
sensory and anxiety. I'm really looking forward
to getting deep into this conversation today
and kind of clarify some things for my listeners
of teachers and parents. First of all, can you
introduce yourself a little bit about maybe your
background and how you've come into this world
of change in behavior and the interest in that?
I have a long history of working with children.
I actually started 30 years ago. I trained as
a Montessori teacher and I ran my own school
for five years. And after that, I became very
interested in the psychological and emotional
aspects of childhood. I have to say that going
back all of those years, the idea that children
had a mental health was... considered to be slightly
strange and unusual and odd and mental health
back in those days it was sort of seen that if
you didn't have a mortgage or a job to worry
about then children didn't experience stress
which of course we know the opposite is true
and so I worked at the Anna Freud Center where
they had a therapeutic nursery that was one of
the few places in the country at the time that
trained child psychotherapists. And then I went
on to train as a conventional psychotherapist
and also a hypnotherapist. And I did a lot of
work in NLP. And I've had my therapy practice
in London, in Harley Street for over 20 years
now, and naturally started to see lots of children
and childhood issues. But I'm very interested
in behavior change. And I think because I was
a teacher, I come at it more from an education
point of view of how can we teach our children
skills. what it is that they need to know. And
also through my teaching, I was inevitably helping
the parents understand what it is that they need
to do and what it is that they need to say. I
have obviously written lots of books because
I want parents to continue the work that I can
do in the therapy room. I appreciate, you know,
what I can do in the therapy room is very different
to what a parent can do at home. And I also understand
the challenges. You know, childhood Home life,
the home environment, you know, it's messy. Let's
face it. We're all busy. You've got more than
one child. How can you focus on one child's problems?
So in an ideal world and what an expert might
be able to tell you to do is not necessarily
what translates into real life at home. And that's
where my books come into play. You know, I've
got several parenting manuals, just sort of.
helping parents get a framework, get a sense
of how to solve a particular problem. Yeah, I
have found that I've read this book recently,
Mind How Your Kids Eat, which is your latest
book out. And I have found it really easy to
navigate and really clear. There's not many,
you know, big... science -y words in there you
know it's all very easy to understand it's broken
down like physically broken down into very very
clear and digestible sections so I can totally
see now you explain the reason behind the books
it makes total sense you know it's um it's actually
digestible for those that are coming at it on
the ground I suppose yeah and I think a lot of
books parenting books included tend to be very
heavily academically referenced and Parents are
busy people. We actually don't have time to read.
And also, you're not reading for interest. You're
reading for information. Tell me what to do.
I have a problem. I need to fix it. And it was
because parents would come to me and say, look,
I understand the problem, but just tell me what
to do. Tell me what to say. It was those two
things. And that's why I set it out in the book
like that. Also appreciating that you're not
going to sit down and read a whole book in one
go because you don't have time. So it's bite
-sized chunks. Yeah, and things that you can
kind of dip in at any chapter should you need
a certain thing, which I found really, really
useful. Let's talk about food anxiety then. Why
would a person grow anxiety around food? You've
got lots of different reasons in the book. Do
you mind going through a few of those? Yeah,
for many years, I mean, let's face it, we're
living in a more complicated food environment
than we ever have before. You know, parents have
a bigger challenge on their hands now. We have
far too much food in our environment, let's face
it. A lot of it is ultra processed, which means
it's highly palatable, full of sugar, fat, you
know, it's been engineered, chemically engineered
to, you know, encourage everyone to eat more.
I have a real issue with certain retailers who
like to sort of put big signs up in their shops
that say things like, this is not just food.
That's a very well -known saying. This is not
just food. No, you're absolutely right. It's
not food. It's all sorts of other things. It's
entertainment. You know, it's a toy. It's pleasurable.
And that makes it more complicated when we come
to feeding our children. We do have to be concerned
because we have too much in our environment and
a lot of it is not the healthiest stuff. However,
we're also surrounded by a lot of messages, if
you think about it, dieting messages. Our children
are... Children absorb their environment. That's
how children learn. It's unconscious learning.
So they are picking up on all the cues and messages
in their environment. And if they grow up in
an environment where they are constantly hearing
about how a lot of adults are overweight, all
the weight loss. jabs that are on offer now,
the good foods, the bad foods. Inevitably, it
sort of puts you on high alert. You know, hold
on a minute. I heard somebody say that this was
bad. This was wrong. I shouldn't be eating this.
I just don't know where we're going to end up
with this. I mean, I think that the weight loss
jabs have given us an opportunity to perhaps
have a reset. And let's stop and think. But we've
got to also start thinking about what kind of
learning do we want to pass on to our children?
Do we want to assume that it's okay to eat a
lot of ultra -processed foods and it doesn't
matter if you get overweight? Because if you
do get overweight, you can just have some weight
loss medication to wipe it out. That is fine.
That's where we are now. But now that we are
here, let's start thinking about... how we want
to do things for children. So I think a lot of
anxiety exists because of that sort of confused
messaging, which is all actually really quite
new for us. I mean, 10 years ago, we were not
talking about weight issues, ultra processed
foods and medications to the extent that we are
now. So even for adults and grownups, you know,
we're all having to sort of get used to this.
But the other thing that I used to see a lot
of is Children feeling anxious if they had had
a bad experience, let's say about a food poisoning
on holiday, or what is quite often, quite often
that I see in the therapy room is a child that
comes into me and a parent will say they saw
somebody being sick in assembly at school. And
that has now triggered the idea in their mind
that this may happen to them too. And so sometimes
we get school refusal because of that. Because
what if I go and stand in assembly? Perhaps I'll
be sick too. Or they've had a sibling who has
been unwell. And that has also triggered off
feelings of anxiety, which then translate into
not being able to eat so comfortably. Feelings
of, you know, gagging, retching. But it's the
idea. that starts there. There doesn't necessarily
have to be a physical reason. I mean, there might
be a physical reason, like I said, illness, sickness,
food poisoning, but it could just be that you've
seen something. You've saw this happen to somebody,
it looked dreadful, and now you're sort of panicking
and worrying that it might happen to you. And
the more that we panic and worry, then obviously
the bigger the problem becomes. And all of a
sudden at home, I can understand that the parent
will be going, well, I have a fussy child. You
know, all of a sudden they're not eating this
particular food. and we start experimenting with
food or we start getting exhausted and exasperated.
I've always cooked this for you. You've never
said no before. What's the problem now? And children
being children, they don't always have the vocabulary,
the language. They can't necessarily describe
what it is that they're really feeling. Maybe
it's not the shepherd's pie that they're turning
their nose up at, but maybe the thought inside
their mind is, what happens if I'm sick? Who's
going to take care of me? If I eat food, I saw
a friend eating some food and that happened.
Will this happen to me? And so it's more about
the anxiety than the food. The food is irrelevant,
really. So what is interesting is I used to see
a child like that in my therapy room, maybe once
every few months, every couple of months or so,
I would have somebody coming in. But after the
pandemic, all of a sudden, you know, I suddenly
see eight children. in just a few weeks. And
I'm thinking to myself, where is this coming
from? And again, I think it's just all the messages
that we heard at around that time. You know,
we obviously necessarily had to be conscious
of germs, sickness, illness, and ultimately death.
I mean, every single day on the news, we would
hear the figures of how many people had died.
Again, children, we were cocooned away at home
and children were absorbing those messages. Do
I think that is what is driving ARFID? We've
mentioned ARFID, avoidant restrictive food intake
disorder. This was only recognised as a mental
health disorder back in 2013. So it's relatively
new. Our understanding of the subject has grown.
So perhaps that's why. We are seeing more and
recording it. Yeah, I can definitely look back
through my time. I didn't know what it was, but
I've always in my 20 years of career, always
had children with ARFID. It's only in the last
few years that we've been calling it what it
is before we always called it a fussy eater.
But looking back. I mean, I had children that
only ate rich tea biscuits. Like it was clearly
more than fussy eating. There was a sensory,
you know, they were autistic. There was a sensory
need there. And it was a total restriction and
limitation on the food that they were eating.
Far more than a fussy eater. So it's really interesting
looking back at my career. Now we've got the
language and more understanding on it. I can
kind of look back and reflect. Yeah. And also,
you know, I, as I write in the book. I was also
a mother of a child with ARFID. He's very grown
up now. He's in his 30s. So I know what it's
like to be a mother with a child that is going
through this. And inevitably, everybody wants
to sort of suggest that you've done something
wrong or you're not getting it right. I think
that's a mother's natural instinct, even if nobody's
saying that in words. I think it's a mother's
instinct to naturally... put it on you that you've
got to fix this because ultimately it's your
job to support your child to be as healthy as
possible and if you're not able to get them to
eat I mean that feels like such a fundamental
issue doesn't it in in you've got to fix I think
mothers can take that on and parents in general
can take that on to be responsible Yeah, for
fixing that, which can be really tricky when
the supporting network around you of professionals
don't really understand what the condition entails.
And I've heard that a lot before, people going
to GPs and not really knowing what ARFID is.
Yeah. And I obviously, you know, with my son,
I would never have used the phrase ARFID. Looking
back now, I think we have a lot of hypermobility
in our family. And so it's not just neurodivergence.
It's also conditions like... hypermobility which
is getting up think about that in the book i
found that fascinating it's something i've never
heard about are you all right explaining how
that comes into play with food because that was
real new knowledge for me yeah so hypermobility
um it's something that just runs in my family
and is becoming more widely recognized you know
just just backtracking a little bit i know there
are a lot of people that would be sort of what
Are we just labeling things? Does it really help?
Are we just doing this for the sake of it? I
would say, yes, it does help. Because as soon
as you have a little bit more understanding,
I wish that when all those years ago, when I
was struggling with my son and his eating issues,
that I'd had a book like mine. That was exactly
the book that I needed. And I needed to hear
that actually, it wasn't me. It was, yes, there
is a name for it. I mean, does a name really
matter? Well, no, it doesn't. But at least I
know what I'm dealing with. But hypermobility
is exactly the same thing. It's a laxity in the
connective tissues in the body. It used to be
referred to as hypermobility joint syndrome.
So we would think that, okay, fine, if you had
hypermobility, you would just be double jointed
and would probably become a good gymnast and
be good at yoga one day. And you could probably,
you know, do all sorts of interesting things
with bending your fingers back. But we have a
greater understanding now. It's more to do with
the connective tissues. inside your body as well
as those just in your bones, in your skeleton.
And so it can cause reflux. You could have a
very sicky baby. My son was very dribbly. Why
was he constantly dribbling? I used to say this
to the doctors. I have the dribbliest, sickiest
baby going. It's like, well, babies are sick.
Babies do dribble. Through my wider work, because
I do a lot of work with bedwetting children as
well, we know that it can affect bladder control.
It can cause constipation just simply because
the muscles throughout your bowel aren't working
as strongly and effectively as they can. The
bowel, the constipation, the wetting, all of
these are also symptoms that I see in my learners
that I've never connected that could also be
attributing to how they manage food. It's so
interesting because I'm definitely seeing that
in my learners. They often need more alcohol
to support. They are often in pads, you know,
maybe have a lack of awareness or understanding
of when they need to go to the toilet. It's so
interesting to hear that these things are linked.
And looking back, of course they are because
they come up so often in my class, but I've never
considered the two. I've always just put them
under the umbrella of sensory interoception and
a lack of awareness of their body and all of
those things. But of course they're linked. Of
course there's a reason. That makes a lot of
sense to me, hearing you explain it like that.
And there are things that you can do. I encourage
parents to think about the environment that they
are raising their children in. As adults, we
can all remember times of childhood eating. You
know, our minds naturally flip back. I've also
done a huge amount of work with overweight adults.
So for weight loss programs, everybody can pinpoint
a time in the past when I was teased for having
you know, fat thighs or we weren't allowed to
have sweets and that's why I crave them now.
Or we had to finish everything on the plate.
So even if I didn't want it, I have even worked
with, I find this astonishing because I kind
of thought that those types of things went out,
you know, donkeys years ago and that there's
absolutely no way that anybody would be raised
in that way now. But I still to this day work
with adults who will say. that, you know, they
didn't finish everything on their plate, that
sometimes, you know, the plate was put into the
cupboard and it would be brought out again for
breakfast. I mean, really? Does that actually
happen? And the thing is that memory stick, you
know, the habits and... behaviors that you pick
up in childhood become deeply imprinted on your
subconscious mind. They're almost tattooed there.
And so I sort of try to encourage parents when
you're thinking and planning meals, let's focus
less on the, well, is it broccoli? Is it the
healthiest food that they could be eating right
now? If you have a child that's struggling with
eating and you have some food issues and think
a little bit more about the environment. What
kind of memories do you want them to be taking
away from childhood into their adult life? I
always say the menu can be changed later on.
You know, my son, he ate fish fingers, peas and
sweet corn every single day for, you know, I've
lost track. Even on Christmas Day, I made a decision
when he was eight years old that we weren't going
to fight and argue about it anymore. If that's
what he wanted to eat, then that is what he wanted
to eat. And it was more about, I tell you what
really upset me as a mother, what upset me is
that he used to throw tantrums and would scream
and cry when we would go to new places. So going
to friends' houses, trying to stay in a hotel
for a holiday. There was no way we could go into
hotels because he couldn't bear the smells. Never
mind sit down and eat something. So everything
was a struggle. I was exhausted with all of that.
came to a little agreement with him. We actually
shook hands on this. I would stop talking about
food. In fact, I would stop trying to suggest
new things for him to eat. But, you know, please,
your side of the bargain is stop the screaming
and the tantrums and use a knife and fork and
sit at the table and let's be calm about it.
And he agreed. He agreed. We shook hands and
things started to change from there. So I think
it's... Let's take the pressure off the food
and think more about how we are eating, which
is in fact why my book is called Mind How Your
Kids Eat. So I'm not talking about what you're
going to be eating, because when you're a grown
-up, you can eat more healthily. Yes, I know
we don't want to be eating sweets and treats
all the time, and we don't, but it's more about
the habits and behaviours, because what you acquire
in childhood would stay with you for life. So
having a calmer environment at the table. And
I always like the idea of making a meal of a
meal. So that is laying the table, nice cutlery.
And because I'm a Montessori teacher, I will
always hark back to those Montessori days of
when we always had little flowers, a little vase
of flowers on the table. We would have, you can
light a candle, you can play nice music, but
this is a time when we come together. Now, if
your child is only eating mashed potatoes, then...
fine i'm more concerned about how they feel in
that moment rather than the food that's on the
plate i love that and and you spoke about in
your book about including them in the preparation
of food as well you know that's great exposure
to foods even without the pressure of actually
tasting it themselves is that idea of that social
side of food because it is very social isn't
it food not only the eating of it but the preparation
as well so having them be involved in that could
also expose them in a way without demand of actually
tasting it I thought that was really great you
also talk about sensory explanation so sensory
seeking versus sensory sensitive and I thought
that difference was very interesting. Are you
okay? You start your chapter about the senses
actually. I was quite interested that you go
straight into the sensory seeking versus sensory
sensitive child. So this also harks back to my
Montessori days where we were very conscious
of the fact that children's senses are developing
and your senses really are the foundation of
the intellect. So everything in a Montessori
environment is geared up to enhance the development
of the senses. So this is where it comes from.
But of course, it's not a linear process if you
think about it. You know, your senses don't just
naturally develop. Yes, you can have, you know,
one child that's particularly sensitive to smells
today, but that usually dampens down. During
the first six years of life, whilst they're in
this developmental stage, you can get a few kind
of ups and downs where tastes feel overwhelming.
the sense of smell. So for some children who
are sensory sensitive, I often say to parents
when they come to see me, this is actually good
news. If you have a child who is sensory sensitive,
this is good news because it means that... In
a way, their body, their mind is more alive to
the environment around them. They are drinking
in their environment, you know, the smells, the
textures, the colors, the sounds. This is information
that is actually creating their mind. And I usually
say to them, it means you have a more intelligent
child. You know, don't worry. But for sensory
sensitive children who may be fussy eaters, sensory
overwhelm. So I would sort of say, start with
what feels safe. You know, if we have a safe
food, you can make gradual changes such as presenting
it in a different way, perhaps change the brand,
perhaps alter the temperature. So the food itself
hasn't changed. So the child can go, OK, fine.
Yeah, I know what this feels like. This is my
favourite. But eating in different environments
too, you know, does it taste the same when you
sit on a picnic blanket outside in the garden
under a tree? No, it's a different experience.
I suppose like how you prepare the food as well,
grated cheese versus cut cube cheese, I suppose,
or how you cut an apple can maybe be different
enough for a child without changing the whole,
you know, taste and texture of an apple because
there's so many varieties. Maybe keep the same
apple, but prepare it in a different way. That's
such tangible, great advice that you could action
straight away. Yeah, and I used to do that with
my son, that even though his passion was mashed
potatoes, I wouldn't let him eat the same mashed
potatoes every single day. That yes, it would
be boiled potatoes one day, a jacket potato the
next day. It might be chips on another day, but
it had to look different. Okay, we're still eating
potatoes, but I didn't want him just to get stuck
in that same... Because then you can get sort
of like an anxiety about altering and changing.
So I mean, you can... There are lots of ways
that we can begin to explore food away from the
table, away from the plate. So you could have
a food exploration party with your friends. Everybody
comes around, you sit on, you know, I like sitting
on the floor, of course, with everybody. You
sit on the floor and we begin to explore strange
and unusual foods. Yes, you could have the real
fruit or whatever it is in your hand and you
can talk about it, the colour, the texture, the
size, the shape, or we can look on the internet
and find unusual ones and print them off and
cut them out and stick them in a book, whatever
it is that we decide to do. But when we get a
group of children, it could be a fun activity.
We could also, we used to do this in the Montessori
classroom, play guess the food. So you can either
wear a blindfold. And just through feeling it,
can you guess what it is? Or you can use one
of those wash bags, you know, drawstring wash
bags, and you can put different foods in there.
So, I mean, obviously, banana is very easy to
guess what it is, but then you can sort of alter
it slightly and it can become more complicated.
And by touching and feeling, you can kind of
get a sense of... what it is. It's just a way
of introducing food in a different way. In my
classroom, we also used to have what I called
smelling jars, which was matching the scents.
So I used to have little jars that were see -through.
I mean, if they're see -through, you want to
sort of cover them up so that you can't see what's
in there. But you could just use cotton wool
balls and put, let's say, a nice lemon extract,
let's say. You could have a minty essence. You
can have... different drops that you can put
onto the cotton wool balls, or you can have coffee,
for example, and you create matching pairs. And
then by sniffing and smelling, can you find the
one that smells the same? And it's a game. And
all of a sudden, you're becoming used to all
of these different textures, sights, colors,
and smells without actually having to put anything
into your mouth. yeah it's just getting that
comfortable that's where the anxiety comes from
is the idea of if it is the anxiety of putting
into your mouth tasting swallowing all of those
kind of things because as you spoke right at
the beginning it might be reflux it might be
the idea of being sick it might be a difficulty
with the texture all those things disappear because
we're not asking them to do that we're asking
them to play explore be led by them. And I guess
the adults in that environment are also feeling
less anxious. I assume that if the pressure was
to sit at the table and eat, not only is the
child feeling anxious, but the parent trying
to get them to eat is also feeling very anxious.
And I can imagine there's a bit of the opposite,
whatever the opposite of co -regulation is, co
-dysregulation, I suppose, in almost making each
other's anxiety is even more. Whereas if you
both know, set the parameters of we are playing.
then the adult's anxiety can ease as well. And
also, you know, I encourage parents to have a
weekly meeting. I love weekly meetings. You know,
in every other environment, we have a meeting.
People are meeting all the time. You know, you
have work meetings, you have coffee mornings
with your friends. And yet as families, we don't
meet. We don't meet and we don't discuss anything.
Everything's, we expect to fix things in the
moment. So I think if you're really struggling
with food, then having... a once a week meeting
where we all talk about the food away from the
table. It could be, even if it's in the back
of the car, you know, we have. It's a really
great place for those tricky conversations I
find because there's no eye contact. You're kind
of, you're stuck in there together. You've got
to have this conversation. Yeah. And sort of
planning, you know, meal times. Okay, fine. This
is what we're going to be doing this week. You
know, so. If you do have a menu that's pre -arranged,
pre -agreed, then you're less likely to have
the arguments and the kickbacks, you know, or
it's Tuesday, well, I don't like this, but this
is what we agree. I love writing things down
as well, because then again, you can avoid eye
contact. I always say that if you're having a
bit of a confrontational situation with your
child, avoid eye contact. And, you know, then
you can sort of look at the list and go, yeah,
but we agree. Do you remember on Tuesday we said
we were going to do this? And then the child
doesn't take that so personally. And you can
use that with non -speaking children as well.
I was just thinking, you know, how can you have
a conversation with these non -speaking lads?
You can use visuals. You can have all the food
options laid out as symbols or photos or even
the object, you know, the toy objects. And that's
how you can have that discussion. and put them
in as a kind of timetable in a way so that they
can anticipate what's going to come up. I think
that could actually be incredibly helpful if
it's decided together. Maybe a lot of the anxiety
comes from our learners having that little control
and say over their lives, and maybe they're wanting
some control back. I know lots of eating disorders.
come from a need for control. And there's no
wonder that some of the learners in my class
would be seeking that because my goodness, they
have so little control over their lives. So by
offering them, I suppose, ways of timetabling
their food and choosing, having a choice of two
even, a photo that they could choose could be
really, really helpful. So yeah, I haven't considered
that before, but having a conversation, however
that looks for you and your child could of course
be incredibly helpful. I've never considered
that. You know, children are very intuitive.
You know, we can all walk into a room and sense
the atmosphere and go, I don't know what it is,
but there's something wrong here. And children
pick up on those kind of cues too. Was I, as
a mother, was I anxious when I was putting food
on the table? Absolutely, because I was expecting
it to be, you know, sent back. Did that make
a difference? Probably. Yeah, I wish I'd been
calmer. Because I'm more relaxed about it. And
this is why I think the more that we talk about
it, the more open we are about it, the better
it will be for parents. Because your child will
pick up on your levels of anxiety, your expectations.
But if we also sort of think very carefully about
the language that we use when we speak to children,
because words have... an impact on the images.
Words create images inside our minds. And so
we have to be careful to be inserting the right
kind of images rather than wrong images. So things
like, you know, well, just one, just one, just
try, just one. It kind of suggests there's something
wrong with it. Because if it was delicious, wouldn't
you be saying, let's eat lots of it? But you're
just saying, no, no, no, well, just one. You
know, we have to be careful. I also like using
the word when. Or once, you know, once we've
tried one, then we'll find it so much easier
to try the second and the third. Or when, when
we've got used to sitting around the table and
eating this particular food, you'll quickly discover
how much easier it can be to do X, Y, Z too.
and it's this is kind of conversational hypnosis
and in the book i have got a little bit about
that i haven't been able to put everything in
this book because i've written a whole other
book called words that work so if you're looking
for words and language it's there and if you're
specifically looking for techniques for reducing
anxiety because if you have got a child that's
feeling distressed because I have witnessed a
friend of theirs being sick. And there are techniques
in my other book, First Aid for Your Child's
Mind. So it was a case of I had to sort of figure
out what was it that I could put in. I had to
keep it all around food, but I have got a whole
book about words and I have got a whole book
about anxiety too. But also one of the other
things I've created in the book is what I call
a psychosensory eating profile. Yes, I find that
fascinating and so useful. Yes. It's a way of,
we talk about auditory, visual auditory kinesthetic.
I mean, those terms are used quite widely throughout
education. Now, we know that our children tend
to have preferences and it's going to be the
same with eating. You know, what does your child
like snacking on? What are their favourite foods?
What about the colours? What about the textures?
What about the smells? Once you've gone through
the profile and you've identified. what your
child's preferences are, then you can think about
what I've called psychosensory swaps. So, okay,
fine. If you're one that, I mean, let's face
it, the psychologists in the food industry have
been very hard at work. They know that packaging
chocolate in a purple wrapper, that is done deliberately
because we like the color purple. They're not
stupid. And so I'm sort of thinking, well, we
should be doing the same. They know what it is
that they need to do to get us to eat. And if
we can start applying the same principles to
identifying our children's preferences and strategies
for eating, then all of a sudden we kind of go,
okay, fine. Well, I'm, you know, these are your
preferences that I'm not going, if you like hard,
crunchy, crispy food, I'm not going to offer
you a bowl of soup because it's just not going
to match. your preference and so I've sort of
identified the psychosensory swaps that if your
child listed them haven't you so you've put exactly
that if you like the hard foods then you've put
some ideas the chewy foods soft and fluffy cold
you know you've got those a list of five ideas
of things to go for and that does make sense
to me rather than okay they They eat banana or
they're not necessarily going to like other banana
type things or tomato type things. Maybe it's
a texture thing rather than a taste thing or
maybe it's a bitterness, sourness, sweetness.
So, yeah, I loved the idea of starting from that.
And again, I suppose as parents, they're wanting
a way in and they're not sure what. that is so
they might refer back to the just one just one
just eat this bit just that little bit there
you know i'll get rid of all the rest of it i'll
put it on a separate bowl just eat that you know
it's all of that that's what we're seeing we're
coming back to maybe what happened in our childhood
and it's kind of learned in that way so i love
the actionable steps of looking at it from a
sensory point of view from the sensory profile
and then it's individualized as well Because
I suppose social media is wonderful, but maybe
we're seeing a parent's had great success with
offering a certain food, but then that's not
our child. So then it won't work for us. And
then maybe we become frustrated with that. Or
maybe we're speaking to a friend who's had great
success with offering these fruit snacks. And
they, of course, don't work for our child because
they've got a different sensory profile. So I
suppose it's a great way of individualizing these
needs and really knowing your child and what
they enjoy and then knowing. how to use that
to support them with broadening their eating.
For my child, my son, he, as I understood later,
he had a fear of being tricked. That somebody
was going to mush up some vegetables and disguise
it and trade it and he would be tricked. And
so he came to every mealtime on high alert just
in case. And I'm kind of, later on, I sort of
looked and thought, if only I'd known that at
the time, because that would have solved a lot
of the problems. Because I suppose if he'd have
prepared the food with you, he'll know exactly
what's in it and how it's prepared. I suppose
that's another reason why including your child
in that preparation process is so important,
because they can see what's going into it, if
that is where the fear is coming from. Yeah,
but there are also ways of tackling the anxiety.
got nothing to do with food right i mean if if
parents are interested then my other book first
day yeah i think that's great does i'll leave
it in the link below if you are interested in
the words the anxiety i'll leave all of the links
to alicia's books down below because i i feel
like there is a lot of overlap of course there
is um if they have food anxiety they've probably
got other anxieties as well so i think that's
probably great that you that you do look at the
range of of books to support your child. I suppose
I want to ask you, because I just feel that people
will be listening to this thinking, is this my
child? Are they just fussy? Or is this half it?
What would you say is the difference? Or how
could a parent know if their child is a fussy
eater or it's something a little deeper that
they might not grow out of without support? Yeah,
I think a fussy eater is someone who perhaps
eats it one day, but not the next. Okay, there
is a difference between just fussy eating and
ARFID. Fussy eating, I suppose, would be a child
that eats peas one day, you know, refuses them
the next. That's a bit more, fussiness is a difficult
word, actually, because really, we are all entitled
to have preferences. If we all go to a restaurant
meal with a group of friends, we'll all choose
something different. And I kind of think it's
about respecting the child too. Okay, fine. Why
should you like the exact same foods that your
sibling does? But it's a case of having a balance.
So, okay, fine. Is this just preference? This
is what I prefer? Or is it that I am... I like
to go... food fussiness, let's say, rather than
a fussy eater. Let's think about, yes, okay,
fine, it's fussy or picky, picky eater. And when
you're a child, you're inevitably still learning,
exploring. Like I said, the sensory development,
we don't know, are you on a particularly high
moment where you're going to start feeling overwhelmed
by certain smells or textures? We don't know
quite what's going on. I think with those kind
of scenarios, it's not linear. You know, we have
differences. One day you are a good eater, the
next day, not so good. You go through a good
phase of a couple of months of eating well, and
all of a sudden, now you're having a little bit
of a picky phase. So that is where I think it's
just general development. Whereas with our feed,
this is consistent. It will probably be every
day, every mealtime, and it's a bit more extreme.
And it's got nothing to do with portion control
or body image, but it's just more about the anxiety
and the feelings of overwhelm. And it's not going
to magically disappear. You know, if you've got
it at home, you'll probably have it at the friend's
birthday party when everybody's wolfing down
pizza. It will continue. And, you know, I think
it's also a case of saying, well, how much does
this impact our lives? And if it begins to restrict
where you can go out, like I said, to friend's
parties or on holiday to hotels, then all of
a sudden it's becoming something a little bit
bigger. And what can people go for? When it gets
to the point that nutritionally. the child wants
to suffer because they really are not having
enough food, then yes. One of the reasons why
I wrote my book, First Aid for Your Child's Mind,
is because I like to look upon these things as
sort of like bumps, bruises and scrapes that
you naturally pick up throughout childhood. Why
would we not pick them up inside our minds too?
You know, we think these are just physical things,
but of course we inevitably have. bumps along
the way. And you can, as a parent, you know,
erase some of these things or soothe them. You
can soothe your child's anxieties, fear and worries
through some simple techniques. And I always,
I prefer doing that than seeing children who
come to me in the therapy room and the parent
says, we've had this problem for the last five
years. But I always say, why didn't we do something
sooner? Because problems become more deeply entrenched.
So if you feel that your child is just, you know,
one day they're picky, but the next day they're
fine, they don't want to eat very well at home,
but they'll go to a friend's birthday party and
quite happily walk down the food, then that's
probably general pickings, shall we call it.
But ARFID does become more serious when you see
that anxiety or that worry when I get there.
What happens when I go to my friend's birthday
party? What will the food be like? What will
they give me to eat? Then this is becoming a
little more deeply entrenched. And if we do an
early intervention, we can prevent it from developing
into something more serious. If someone's listening
to this and thinking that is my child, that this
is exactly my child, you are describing them
completely. Where do they go? Where's the best
course of action, I suppose, in order to get
the support that they need? Is it the book and
could they do it themselves or would you suggest
something different? I mean, definitely start
with the book because the more knowledge you
have, the easier it is to sort of see where you
need to go next. So definitely, yes, mind how
your kids eat. And if we're drifting into extreme
anxiety, then first aid for your child's mind
too. After that, yes, I mean, there are specialist
practitioners. You can, I know that there are
ARFID charities now that will offer support.
and advice and to see if you can find a practitioner
who can help with this. What we're looking for,
and this is something that I'm developing actually
as my next project, is looking at how to get
the right sort of therapy for children. Because
it isn't just a sort of a listening, you know,
a nice, friendly psychologist is going to listen
to the problem. Because you probably, this is
what I had when my son was three years old. We
were referred to a food psychologist at the hospital.
And all I can say is that they were very pleasant
chats on a weekly basis. But did it make any
difference? No, it didn't. Because we didn't
really truly understand what he was experiencing
on the inside. I mean, thanks to the developments,
let's say, in the field of neuroscience in the
last 10, 15 years, yes, we do have a better understanding
now. And so we need to kind of move with the
times and offer different sorts of therapy for
our children. Thank you. I'd love to, before
we close off, I'd love to read to everybody.
a gentle thought to take with you from the book.
I just think they're lovely all throughout the
book. After each chapter, Alicia writes a gentle
thought to take with you. So I thought I would
read that before we close off today, if that's
okay. It says, when a child's fear shows up around
food or anything else, it's rarely about logic.
It's about safety. Their world has shifted and
they need time and reassurance to feel steady
again. Rather than pushing them to confront the
fear head on, the greatest gift we can offer
is calm understanding. When children feel truly
safe, their confidence returns often more quickly
than we expect. And I thought that was a lovely
message of hope that anybody listening to this,
that can really resonate with what you've been
saying today. Yeah, that can be a message of
hope. I think that change is possible. If people
are listening to this and want to find out more
about the books, I'm going to leave those links
below and I'll leave the links to everything
that you share online, your website and all of
your links down below. So if you want to find
out more about Alicia Eaton, the other books
and everything will be there. Thank you so much
for sharing your wisdom with us today. Thank
you so much. Thanks.