Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
our beautiful young people. Let's get started.
Hello everybody and welcome to the Sensory Classroom
podcast. My name is Jordan and today I'm joined
by Dr. Amy Hodges from Nurtured Minds OT. She
is an occupational therapist and a lecturer and
has recently been working on a really important
project working with neurodivergent children
in schools and supporting neurodivergent children
in mainstream school and strategies to support
educators to set up neuroaffirming practices,
something incredibly close to my heart. Hi, Amy.
Hi, Jordan. Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so pleased you, yeah, we're having this conversation
today. I don't know if you know, but my special
education class is attached to a mainstream school.
So I see the reality of, oh God, I could fill
my class three times over and... I think the
work you're doing is really important. I think
lots of people listening are seeing the same
thing that I am and maybe not really sure what
to do about it. So I'm really pleased that someone's
researching about what to do. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Do you want to explain a little bit about what
you've been working on recently and kind of your
background and all that? Yeah, yeah. So my background.
In education really comes through my work as
a paediatric occupational therapist. So I have
a PhD in occupational therapy from Curtin University
in Western Australia and around 15 years of clinical
and research experience working with children
and families and schools. I started out in early
intervention, so I supported young children with
developmental disabilities in their homes, in
childcare centres and in community settings.
And over time, I transitioned to school age therapy
services, working primarily with autistic students.
And I spent about seven or eight years visiting
students in mainstream schools and some education
support settings. I know it's slightly different
to the UK context. And that's really where my
connection with education. The education system
began. My work involved quite close collaboration
with teachers and education assistants and parents
to try and build understanding and create an
environment where all students could participate
meaningfully. And so a big focus of my role was
empowering teachers and helping them to feel
confident in supporting autistic students in
their learning, their participation and their
well -being in the classroom. So primarily my
experience is in mainstream education settings.
What kind of things were you seeing? Like when
you first stepped into those classes, what were
some common themes that you would always or usually
see? Yeah, yeah. During my time working with
school -aged children, I became really interested
in the area of inclusive education because what
I was noticing was this cyclical pattern. When
a child didn't feel included, respected or supported,
their participation and their well -being at
school would drop. And then that reduced participation
would then reinforce their sense of disconnection
or not belonging and made it even harder for
them to engage. That kind of really triggered
me to try and think of how can we break this
cycle and how can we create environments where
every child feels connected and valued and supported.
And that's where that curiosity sort of led me
to look for evidence -based ways to help students
experience that genuine sense of belonging and
inclusion in their everyday life at school. So
that's when I started my research journey. It's
so true, isn't it? If you're feeling disconnected,
then... You kind of maybe take yourself away
maybe or don't put yourself out there as much
or maybe you're dysregulated. So it's even harder
to meet a social level when you've already got
so many communication barriers as it is. Yeah.
It kind of maybe brings a divide in class and
that only brings more. It magnifies it, doesn't
it? And like you said, that cycle, the lower
self -esteem they have, maybe they don't, you
know, feel good enough to try, you know. Exactly.
And then you might see, you know, students acting
out or having some behaviours in class that aren't
expected and then they're getting into trouble
and then they then feel bad about themselves
and then it's just this terrible spiral of, and
so if we can find ways of supporting these students
and for everyone also to increase their understanding
and awareness and empathy, actually understand
what they can do to include others. then it would
be a much more supportive space. Absolutely.
And I think everyone would agree with that. It's
just what that looks like. So thinking about
your testing, how did you navigate that? Yeah.
Yeah. So what I, my research focused on developing
and testing an intervention called In My Shoes.
So it's a teacher led. whole class program that's
designed to be delivered to grade three and grade
four classrooms to help students build empathy
and understand others' perspectives and take
inclusive actions to support peers who might
be finding things difficult at school. And the
idea was to create something that could be delivered
by the classroom teacher to the whole class as
part of everyday learning. to help foster a more
connected and inclusive classroom culture. So
the program has a variety of resources. There's
some comic strip style illustrations, there's
video -based resources, and it comes with a teacher
manual that has 10 structured lesson plans. So
in Australia, we have 10 weeks in a term, and
I know it's slightly different in the UK, but
it's designed to be delivered across a school
term in Australian schools. And developing the
program, what we did was we gathered insights
from the literature as well as parents and educators
and researchers in the field about what should
be included. So things like the most effective.
techniques to use, how often the sessions should
run, how long they should be and what they should
include. And then what we did is we pilot tested
the program in eight mainstream classrooms across
Perth in Western Australia. And what we were
really trying to test is first, the most important
thing in classrooms, as you're probably aware,
is feasibility. Can teachers actually realistically
deliver this program? Is it appropriate? So how
do teachers and parents and students receive
the program? And then we did some preliminary
testing on effectiveness. So does it actually
help students to feel more included and connected
at school? So that was sort of how we structured
the research and how it was developed and tested.
And then what were your findings? What was the
difference from before the program to after?
And like I said, it was a pilot test, so still
relatively small sample size. And I can talk
more about what we're doing for more research
to further test it. But overall, In My Shoes
was really well received by teachers and parents
and educators. Parents and educators appreciated
that it supported inclusion for the whole class,
not just focusing on individual students, because
obviously it's feasible, but also we're trying
to teach all children to build those skills.
Yeah, and the program might highlight the differences
even more, which might make them feel even more
ostracized, maybe. Whereas everybody, yeah, everybody
has something that makes them feel different
from each other and they can kind of relate on
that way rather than highlighting you're different
because. Exactly. Yeah, and the program really
is like strengths -based, but it's more like
we're all different, we're all unique. So it
definitely doesn't try to. single any particular
student out in any way. But what we found was
that the program did improve participation and
feelings of connectedness, not just for autistic
students, but for their peers. And the data showed
that it was an increase in student report, so
self -report engagement. So the children themselves
felt like they were engaging more. They had more
motivation to engage and they had a better understanding
of autism and students' perception of peer support
also improved. So that was really great to see.
We also received some really constructive feedback
on how we can make the program even stronger.
There was some suggestions around incorporating
some more technology into the lesson plans, digital
resources, reducing the reliance on worksheets
and to make lessons more engaging and accessible
and broadening the scope to all neurodivergent
students, not just those. on the autism spectrum.
And so those insights are shaping the next phase
of development. I mean, we're now, we've got
a PhD student in the UK, actually, at Northumbria
University, who's adapting In My Shoes for the
UK context, because there are some cultural differences,
obviously, and they're testing it in schools
across the UK. So that's really exciting. And
the findings from all this research has been
published. I'm really happy to share those papers
if anyone's interested in reading more. Fantastic.
It sounds so helpful. I'm so pleased that it's
getting spread because this is a worldwide issue
that children, yeah, are feeling ostracized.
Had some research as part of my, one of my trainings
I lead actually, and they said usually around
mental health and usually one in four people
will suffer poor mental health at some point
in their lives. Neurotypical. that all suffer.
If you have a cognitive disability, then that
jumps up massively to around 60%. And then if
you have a physical and cognitive disability,
then it goes to about 84%. But of course, that
bracket is really hard to also get research around.
If you have a physical and cognitive disability,
so it's actually, bear in mind, like it's quite
hard to gather that data. And so it could be
more than that, you know, it's really hard to
test. And I can't hear those numbers and not
want to do something about that. I know. And
that doesn't, it stretches beyond special education.
You know, I feel like sometimes the children
that suffer, that are in mainstream suffer just
as much or even more sometimes. They don't have
the same support systems. They don't have the
same understanding and the adult support. They
have a heightened awareness of social norms and
feeling different. Whereas some of the children
in my class. You know, they live in their happy,
beautiful little world and they couldn't care
less what anyone else thinks. Yeah. And in some
ways that's harder. I agree. In other ways, that's
a little bit easier. It's a little bit softer.
They can be their free selves and have no awareness
of the judgment of others. Whereas I see some
of our mainstream peers and they do. They see
it. They feel different. They're being ostracized.
They're aware they're different. That social
awareness, I think, makes them really vulnerable.
Also, lots of my students in my class will always
have an adult with them. That keeps them safe.
Yeah. Whereas the mainstream peers, not as much
support. And often there's an expectation that
students will fit the mold rather than providing
supports to adapt the environment for them to
fill. Comfortable and confident. Absolutely.
And they see a still looking ready child and
actually under the surface, you know, it's masking.
Under the surface, they're really, really struggling.
Whereas maybe with some of my students in my
class, it's really obvious. They don't hide for
the sake of anybody else. You know, they're very
much their free sensory seeking selves. In mainstream,
they're aware of rules. They want to please.
They desperately want to be liked and have friends.
be included you know we're talking about inclusion
they want to belong and over time you know maybe
not if they're even openly spoken to but just
be an awareness of everyone else around them
and school rules and all of those things it's
kind of embedded that they have to mask even
if it's not said directly to them i'm sure sometimes
it is said directly to them too yeah but that
breeds yeah Really poor mental health, masking,
exhaustion, burnout at home. I mean, gosh, I've
spoken to so many parents on this podcast that
talk about after -school burnout. 100%. It's
all of those things. Let it all go when they
get home. Yeah. The outcome, the sense of school
connectedness has had a lot of research associated
with it, more so in mainstream, but it has been
linked to those. A reduced sense of school connectedness
can really have very adverse long -term outcomes.
poorer mental health outcomes, poorer employment
opportunities and those sorts of things in later
lives. There is definitely a significant reason
to start investing time and effort and resources
early on in education to sort of break that.
that cycle so that students do feel supported.
They feel included. They feel like they can be
their authentic selves and thrive rather than
constantly being made to try and fit into a mold
that isn't supportive. Yeah. And I wonder if
it's not just the children learning that, it's
all of the adults in the room that are there
during your sessions too, because it starts from
there, doesn't it? They're also hearing this
language. They're also probably learning things
about autism that they didn't know. Yeah. And
it starts from the outside in. the whole school
because they're bought into this you know your
strategy they've bought into the research they're
gonna embed that and take it really seriously
across the whole school and i think there's something
said about that rather than it just being one
person that watched a great video on tiktok and
trying to change the school is so hard in comparison
to an like invested system that is you know pushed
out across the entire school that has time and
finances dedicated to making it work yeah definitely
makes it a much more successful definitely and
of course schools who agreed to participate in
the research obviously are probably coming from
a more positive school culture around inclusion
because they're voluntarily participating their
time. But what we really tried to make a big
effort in when developing the program is that
it was supposed to replace aspects of the existing
health curriculum. looked very closely at the
Australian curriculum and what needs to sort
of be met in those areas and made sure that each
lesson plan sort of addressed some of those curriculum
outcomes so that the teachers didn't feel like
this was something in addition to everything
else that they need to do as part of their school
day. So that's really important to get school
buy -in. And support for sure. But one of the
things I've noticed in Australia anyway is that
for mainstream teachers, there isn't a lot of
support and there isn't a lot of training to
support their understanding of autism or neurodivergence
in general. And there is increasingly more and
more neurodivergent students in mainstream school.
And so this is a real big gap for teachers. It's
a huge gap. It's the reason why my account has
blown up how it has. teacher is a special education
teacher, like whether you choose to go into that
school or not. It is, you know, there's such
a huge range of diversities across the entirety
of education. So if you're being a teacher, you
are a special education teacher. And yeah, the
lack of training in that area is appalling. It's
so shocking. And it does take outside agencies
like yourself to come in and fill in the gaps.
their understanding um it's not through want
of trying i'm sure teachers come into this job
wanting the best for all of their students it
just comes down to a lack of training and and
understanding and that's where we come in with
all of our evidence -based research and all we
need is a listening ear and a willing budget
holder which is usually there to invest in this
to change as well yeah i mean that's the most
That's the scariest sentence, isn't it? But we've
always done it this way. So, yeah, a willingness
to change and an awareness of flaws in what you're
doing already. You know, you said, oh, maybe
these are schools that are doing that anyway.
Or maybe they're just schools that are just self
-aware and they can see the gaps that need to
be filled. So maybe it's like conversation about
awareness as well. Knowing what it could be,
but knowing that it can be different. Just not
knowing what that looks like. definitely that's
the first step for change i think yeah just an
awareness yeah yeah and i suppose that's where
this conversation comes i'm hoping that people
listening to this will reflect in that way you
know but like maybe they are doing some inclusive
practices maybe they have made some changes but
also reflect on but what else could we do you
know i'm sure that there's somebody in your class
that maybe doesn't feel as belonging as another
person so what could we do that I'm sure there's
every class I mean I can certainly think of a
student in every single class that I've had in
16 years that maybe hasn't felt as a sense of
belonging as the rest of the group so I'm sure
there's always something that can more that can
be done definitely yeah what are you currently
working on in the development of this you said
you were stretching out to more schools maybe
adding more Yeah, yeah. So in terms of the research,
we have the PhD student in the UK who's adapting
it for the UK context. So some of the resources,
things to make them more culturally appropriate.
And she's going to be pilot testing that across
the country there. We are also in the process
of looking for grants and PhD students in Australia
to do the next phase of the research, which will
involve a randomized controlled trial. So what
we'll do is we'll adapt the program to be a...
broaden its scope for all neurodivergent learners
and then test it through a randomized control
trial. So there'll be more schools participating
and some schools would receive the intervention
first and then others would wait and then we
would compare the results between that. So that's
kind of where we're at with the research side
of things. But I'm sort of moving, like I've
been living in Vancouver for the past three and
a half years and raising my four. children and
my family's planning to relocate back to Australia
at the end of this year and during my time in
Vancouver I did do some private practice work
but now I'm looking to ease into the transition
of my own business which is called Nurtured Minds
OT and my focus with that is to support and empower
neurodivergent students and their parents and
their educators. in the community and as I ease
into this space I'm starting by offering live
and on -demand workshops on my website which
is coming soon and then we'll gradually move
towards providing face -to -face support for
neurodivergent students at home and at schools
while also supporting their parents and educators.
So my first workshop that I plan to run is called
Foundations of Thriving and will be available
on my website. It's designed to help parents
understand neurodivergence in a strengths -based,
neuroaffirming way, to navigate conversations
with educators, friends and family and to build,
like what we were talking about before, self
-awareness, their child's self -awareness. their
child's self -confidence and then obviously their
later ability to advocate for themselves at home
and at school. So that's sort of where I'm transitioning
into, kind of eclectic mix of research and clinical
work. I think it's really exciting and I love
everything you're saying. you're not talking
about what we can add or change with the child
you're talking about the school you're talking
about their peers you're talking about the environment
the parents the home you're never talking about
this is what you should be doing because we're
just celebrating them and letting them be them
right yeah it's an acceptance around them that
makes their life different and that does make
then make a change Yeah. And that's why I think
the In My Shoes program is so unique because
there are so many programs that look to try and
support the neurodivergent child or autistic
child to build skills in a certain area. But
in doing so, sometimes we forget that actually,
if the environment was more supportive and if
the environment had some changes, they could
thrive. They can live their life as their authentic
selves while also building skills. Everyone needs
to build skills, but my focus is around supporting
the environment. Absolutely. I watched a lecture
from the autistic professional speaker. I don't
know if you know of him. He's in America, an
autistic, incredible lecturer and started, well,
is autistic, but started life as a non -speaking
four -year -old. So he has an incredible insight.
into that we can all learn from and he starts
his lecture saying exactly that why are we spending
so much time trying to teach our children how
to fit in where we could spend that time teaching
the world how to accept them I just think yeah
that's it isn't it yeah 100 % and I love that
you're in all your work actually your research
project and what you're doing now reflects that
message also that it's not about the child changing
it's just about the environment and suiting them
and accepting them and understanding them I suppose
yeah definitely yeah that's my that's my passion
yeah I'm right there with you I'm right there
with you girl I suppose that leads on beautifully
with the teachers listening what would you like
to see you know having done all of your research
over all those years What would you like to see
in every mainstream classroom? What makes your
heart sing when you step into a classroom and
you, yeah, what makes your heart sing? So like
we were just talking about, I'd love to see neurodivergent
students feel fully included as their authentic
selves without needing to mask or to fit in.
I would love classrooms, I've got goosebumps
when I say these things, but I would love classrooms
too where everyone can see and celebrate. the
brilliance in difference, different ways of thinking,
different ways of learning, different ways of
experiencing the world. Because when schools
truly embrace these differences, it doesn't just,
and that's what we saw from the research, it
doesn't just benefit the neurodivergent students.
It actually enriches the entire classroom and
creates such a culture of understanding and respect
and curiosity. So yeah, my vision. My vision
walking into any mainstream classroom is that
every student feels like they belong, that they're
respected, that they're valued for who they are.
And so the school environment is not only inclusive,
but also a place where everyone can thrive. I'm
really interested to see, and maybe this is research
for someone else, but I'm really interested to
see that these schools that you're working with,
with this research project. If it then, that
acceptance bleeds into the culture of the school
for the adults too. Yes. It can be really tricky
places for adults with neurodivergence. All of
us, you know, we're talking about all the children,
we're offering support systems for the children
and these adults are having to zip it up and
mask and get on by and there's no support systems
or scaffolding for them. So I'm really interested
to find out if the culture shifts. Everybody.
Yeah. Well, part of the, it's a multifaceted
program. So I mentioned there's a whole class
lesson plans, but there is also a whole school
component to the program where there's activity
ideas and things that can be done at a whole
school level to try and help to shift the culture
at a whole school level. When we did the pilot.
It was the midst of COVID and things. So what
we found from the research is that a few of the
whole school activity ideas and strategies weren't
put into place in their entirety because of issues
around COVID and distancing and not allowing
extra bodies on site like parents to come for
events at school and things like that. But definitely
in order for there to be change, you need to
sort of combat it at an individual level, at
a class level, and then at a whole school level
as well. Yeah, absolutely. And then that term
has such a huge impact. And little lessons can
actually change and shift an entire culture that
could keep colleagues in their job, in their
work, could make them feel more satisfied in
their job. Then that breeds co -regulation. The
adults are more regulated and feel satisfied
in their work. Well, then they're going to be
better teachers and better support assistants
that support the students, aren't they? There's
that culture shift. It'd be really exciting to
see the research on that too, because it's that
certainly something that I'm also witnessing
is that neurodivergent people in school aren't
just students. And actually, yeah, they're everybody
from caretakers, receptionists to all teaching
staff. The percentages stay the same with the
adult community. So if we're seeing those percentages
in school, we're seeing the same percentages
of adults. Yeah, that's something I'm really
passionate about as well is just an awareness
of support needs in meetings and meeting schedules.
Some people needing extra time, processing time,
all of those things still exist. It doesn't just
disappear when somebody turns 12. It very much
exists. And how good would it be if the adults
were, you know, build from this, they could build
their self -awareness of that and be a great
role model to the younger students to see like,
I struggle with this and this is what makes it
easier for me. I really hope that's what comes
from it. And I think how empowering for those
neurodivergent pupils that can have those conversations
with adults that. are successful. You know, they've
got a great job. They've got a great family.
They can talk about all the wonderful things
that their neurodiversity has brought their life.
I think that is so powerful for a child to hear
that rather than maybe just hearing the downsides.
Yeah. Because they are both. It's very balanced.
From a neurodivergent adult myself, it's really
balanced. There's some incredible things that
my brain does and I'm so grateful for them. And
then it can be incredibly debilitating too. I
think just having that conversation of both of
those things could be really helpful yeah so
powerful for sure yeah and maybe like a little
bit of a role model in that way you know we all
need role models that we can look up to and see
ourselves reflected in in them and maybe that
might help a little bit of hope I suppose yeah
Definitely. So what are some simple strategies
that could support every child? You know, we're
talking about these 10 lessons. I suppose we
haven't gone into too much about what they involve.
Do you have any simple strategies that we could
take from this podcast and start right away?
Yeah, yeah. So just generally some simple strategies
to support every child. I feel like whole class
regulation strategies would be really helpful.
So taking breaks, using tools or practicing self
-regulation. So it's not seen as different, but
a normal part of daily school life for everyone.
And this is the first step in children building
their self -awareness of their own needs and
then their confidence and then later their ability
to advocate for themselves at school. Other strategies
are like accessible spaces and sensory tools
for students who might need them to make it easy
to manage sensory needs without that stigma,
clear, predictable routines and expectations
and to help. students feel safe and confident
and the ability to engage in learning because
obviously when neurodivergent students don't
feel safe it'll be even harder for them to engage
and participate at school. Something else that
could be quite helpful is having those interest
-based clubs and projects so creating opportunities
for students to connect with other peers over
their shared passions and that also can help
to support socialization and sense of belonging
in an authentic way for something that they really
enjoy together. And then again, I think teacher
and staff training on neurodiversity and strengths
-based approaches would be really helpful to
equip educators with those evidence -based strategies
to support every student's learning and their
well -being. Yeah. And they're all things that
are totally achievable for schools. Everything
you mentioned there. can be easily added in fact
there might be already starting those things
maybe just like not even consciously already
like after school clubs you know how could we
make those even more accessible and even more
as a celebration what are the barriers to some
of our neurodivergent learners joining those
clubs or maybe maybe that's a great place to
start for your school I totally agree sharing
across the year groups those shared interests
is such a beautiful way of yeah Offering those
lovely social opportunities, building that community.
Yeah. Yeah. Something that feels safe to them.
Yeah. They can share their knowledge and their
understanding of it and feel confident and say,
I know something about this particular. I bet
they are, but they're so incredibly wise about
that subject. It's something that they are an
expert in. So it gives them the opportunity to
be the leader maybe in that social environment
and teach their peers something, which is just
awesome, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, especially talking
about mental health and connectedness. I think
it's really great to find that balance in some
way. So yeah, offering our neurodivergent students
to share what they're great at is a really great
start. Yeah, definitely. I love that. So all
the more reason for teachers to step up and offer
to do clubs. In addition to everything else that.
Well, I never really mentioned clubs. I just
looked down like do, do, do. But it's so good.
You need to find an educator that has a shared
passion in a particular area. You know, like
there's a teacher who loves Lego, could do a
Lego based or Pokemon. I know, you know. Right.
There would be surely some adults within. It's
true. We've got some incredible clubs at my school.
We've got knitting. We've got art. We've got
music. We've got sign language. Yeah, Lego, all
sorts. It's really exciting. But it takes that
commitment from the staff member to stay after
school. And I guess I could never justify it
before. But actually, when you display it like
you have of. building connectedness social opportunities
yeah neurodivergent people finally feeling like
an expert in something they can take the lead
i'm in well it could also be at lunchtime it
doesn't need to be after flexibility and you
can share it with a colleague i've done that
before so we do a week each that makes it feel
more achievable or a half term each makes it
feel more achievable there are lots of ways around
but now I'm you've kind of sold me on the whole
thing now whereas I've always avoided it before
so maybe that's homework for me coming from this
podcast I always try and give myself some kind
of developmental target after each podcast and
um that's definitely one for me to like yeah
There was also one more strategy that's embedded
throughout the whole of the In My Shoes program.
So across the 10 lesson plans, this strategy
is embedded across all of them. And in each of
the lesson plans, it covers a different area.
So for example, managing conflict at break times,
you know, yourself within the classroom, those
sorts of things. or managing when change happens
as well. It's called Look, Think, Decide. So
the idea is that it's trying to teach students
that perspective taking to be able to first look
at what's going on, what's happening in a situation,
body language, facial expressions, tone of voice,
think about what the person might be thinking,
think about what the person might be feeling.
And obviously our neurodivergent students might
need scaffolding and support with this. And within
the program, there is those resources to help
with that. And then the last step is to decide
what can I do in this situation that might be
an inclusive action to help in this scenario.
So the idea is that the child is trying to put
themselves in someone else's shoes. So that's
the name of the program, In My Shoes. So I think
if we could help and another simple strategies
at school could be to help start teaching that
perspective taking and to get all students to
start shifting their perspective of, you know.
How would I feel if I was in their shoes? Can
I look at what's happening? Can I think about
it? And can I decide what I can do to help? Even
for adults, I would say that adults would deal
with behaviors much better if they were thinking
about exactly those three things that you've
just said. Yeah, I really do. The curiosity rather
than reactivity. Yeah, and assuming good. Assuming
that. they're just communicating or assuming
that they're just trying to get their needs met
assuming that they didn't mean to do that thing
you know their body they're not in control of
their bodies right now or all of those kind of
things yeah assuming that something's going on
here what is it yeah being curious about it trying
to find the why rather than just going to your
first assumption yeah yeah 100 % So where can
people find you now? Your Nurtured Minds OT.
Yep. You've got a website. Instagram's up at
the moment. So at nurturedminds underscore OT.
My website is very nearly ready. It's www .nurturedmindsot
.com. And that's where I'll be sharing that workshop
I talked to you about earlier, resources and
any updates. And if anyone is interested in.
private practice support or research collaborations,
I would love to hear from you. And you can connect
with me via email at nurturedmindsot at gmail
.com. And can that be worldwide? Yes. Yeah, worldwide.
I'm registered in British Columbia and Australia
as an OT, but I can provide telehealth services
and support. Amazing. That's awesome. And I know
by the time this comes out, your website will
already be live. So do check the description
below and check out, yeah, check out all of Amy's
offers because I'm really excited about this
project and it's certainly needed. And thank
you so much for your time today sharing it with
us. No, thank you so much for having me.