WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.680 Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:06.160 teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.119 communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.660 ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:15.300 4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.640 the field answering your questions and sharing 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.559 our knowledge and experience working alongside 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.539 our beautiful young people. Let's get started. 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:30.940 First of all, a message about our sponsor. Today's 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:33.640 sponsor is Octopus Energy. 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Hello everybody and 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:10.159 welcome to the Sensory Classroom podcast. My 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:13.019 name is Jordan and today I'm joined by Liz Evans 00:01:13.019 --> 00:01:16.010 from the Untypical OT. Liz is an occupational 00:01:16.010 --> 00:01:19.170 therapist and solo parent in a neurodiverse family. 00:01:19.390 --> 00:01:21.829 She supports neurodivergent parents to protect 00:01:21.829 --> 00:01:24.950 against burnout, to move from survival to peace 00:01:24.950 --> 00:01:27.849 through a neuroaffirming, trauma and sensory 00:01:27.849 --> 00:01:30.930 responsive approach. I'm really excited to speak 00:01:30.930 --> 00:01:33.709 to her about the all -important topic of parental 00:01:33.709 --> 00:01:36.890 burnout and the sensory side of parenting today. 00:01:37.189 --> 00:01:39.810 Hello, Liz. Hi, Jordan. Thanks for having me. 00:01:39.909 --> 00:01:43.950 You are so welcome. An important topic. something 00:01:43.950 --> 00:01:47.530 I mean gosh this is episode 63 now of my podcast 00:01:47.530 --> 00:01:51.250 and we've skirted around this topic and I don't 00:01:51.250 --> 00:01:55.790 know why I've had lots of parents on and maybe 00:01:55.790 --> 00:01:58.670 they just don't want to talk about it maybe they're 00:01:58.670 --> 00:02:00.769 not comfortable talking about it there's a lot 00:02:00.769 --> 00:02:04.010 of unfortunate shame around this topic but it 00:02:04.010 --> 00:02:07.109 is very real do you mind I suppose so people 00:02:07.109 --> 00:02:09.250 can understand where you're coming from in this 00:02:09.250 --> 00:02:11.050 and why we've chosen to talk about this today 00:02:11.050 --> 00:02:13.210 from your perspective a little bit about you 00:02:13.210 --> 00:02:16.849 and your family yeah absolutely so firstly yeah 00:02:16.849 --> 00:02:20.110 as you say parental burnout very real and I was 00:02:20.110 --> 00:02:23.909 in it even with the job that I do and the work 00:02:23.909 --> 00:02:27.090 that I do I ended up in burnout and lots of people 00:02:27.090 --> 00:02:28.969 were kind of talking about you know autistic 00:02:28.969 --> 00:02:31.509 burnout or neurodivergent burnout I think that 00:02:31.509 --> 00:02:34.150 probably played a part in my burnout but actually 00:02:34.150 --> 00:02:37.389 the majority of my burnout came from the parenting 00:02:37.389 --> 00:02:39.849 responsibilities roles and the difficulties that 00:02:39.849 --> 00:02:41.650 we found ourselves in and where that started 00:02:41.650 --> 00:02:46.210 was I have to myself I'm dyslexic I have a an 00:02:46.210 --> 00:02:50.270 older son who is in mainstream And I have a son 00:02:50.270 --> 00:02:52.810 who is on an EASOS package, so educated other 00:02:52.810 --> 00:02:54.710 than at school. So we weren't able to find a 00:02:54.710 --> 00:02:56.490 school to meet his needs. He's educated at home, 00:02:56.530 --> 00:02:58.469 funded through the local authority, and he's 00:02:58.469 --> 00:03:02.770 diagnosed as autistic. And he had a huge mental 00:03:02.770 --> 00:03:05.370 health breakdown whilst in school. I was working. 00:03:05.770 --> 00:03:08.509 I'm a solo parent. It was really, really hard 00:03:08.509 --> 00:03:11.569 and not knowing kind of what to do. And eventually 00:03:11.569 --> 00:03:15.229 we had to go through the process of... Diagnostics, 00:03:15.289 --> 00:03:18.030 EHCP applications. You didn't even have an EHCP 00:03:18.030 --> 00:03:20.870 at that point. No, nothing. No, nothing. And 00:03:20.870 --> 00:03:24.250 we ended up at tribunal. The county took me all 00:03:24.250 --> 00:03:27.490 the way to tribunal. Naively, I think I thought 00:03:27.490 --> 00:03:30.389 as an OT, my background as an occupational therapist, 00:03:30.550 --> 00:03:32.830 I've worked in child and adolescent mental health. 00:03:32.930 --> 00:03:35.849 I've worked in community pediatric teams. I've 00:03:35.849 --> 00:03:38.270 worked in specialty schools. I thought, I know 00:03:38.270 --> 00:03:40.610 it's hard, but I reckon I can get through this. 00:03:41.389 --> 00:03:47.060 Boy, was I wrong. And that, I think, was a big 00:03:47.060 --> 00:03:50.939 wake -up call for me as a therapist, that I knew 00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:53.379 it was hard, but I didn't realise quite how hard. 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:58.099 And even with the knowledge that I had, I was 00:03:58.099 --> 00:04:00.879 still coming up against the difficulties that 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:02.939 other parents were. And I thought, I somehow 00:04:02.939 --> 00:04:04.800 naively thought I could navigate my way through 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:07.479 that. Yeah, really, really wrong. And I don't 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:08.840 think I'm the only professional. I'm finding 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:10.819 more and more now as I'm kind of talking about 00:04:10.819 --> 00:04:12.979 it as a professional, other professionals going, 00:04:13.530 --> 00:04:15.270 Actually, yeah, I've had exactly the same. I 00:04:15.270 --> 00:04:16.810 thought I would get through it and I didn't. 00:04:17.470 --> 00:04:21.149 So I had this mission, Jordan. I had this mission 00:04:21.149 --> 00:04:25.069 that I felt I had to do something about was I 00:04:25.069 --> 00:04:28.870 had to help protect other parents against burnout. 00:04:30.029 --> 00:04:33.629 Because typical kind of burnout, when people 00:04:33.629 --> 00:04:36.750 go, oh, just do a bit more self -care, that doesn't 00:04:36.750 --> 00:04:41.459 work. Have a bath, go and get a massage. It doesn't 00:04:41.459 --> 00:04:43.600 even touch the sides. Go and have a bit more 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:45.699 of a sleep. You could send me to Barbados for 00:04:45.699 --> 00:04:47.680 two weeks on my own. It wouldn't even touch the 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:52.459 sides. So I knew things had to be different and 00:04:52.459 --> 00:04:54.360 I knew that I had to use kind of my OT skills 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:56.480 to be able to do that. But actually the kind 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.399 of very stereotypical, how do we support people 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:03.220 in burnout, wasn't going to work for us. if we 00:05:03.220 --> 00:05:06.160 were one neurodivergent parents or if we weren't 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:07.800 sure whether we were neurodivergent as parents 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:10.980 or when you're a typical in neurodivergent families, 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.759 that typical just take a rest was not going to 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:18.920 cut it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what you're dealing 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:23.279 with is so much more than exhaustion, isn't it? 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:26.740 Absolutely. Can you explain a little bit about 00:05:26.740 --> 00:05:29.100 how this burnout is different? I've certainly 00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:31.699 seen it as a teacher with parents, usually the 00:05:31.699 --> 00:05:34.829 children that, have haven't got a school place 00:05:34.829 --> 00:05:38.470 a suitable school place and but also parents 00:05:38.470 --> 00:05:41.730 that are fighting for diagnosis for EHCP for 00:05:41.730 --> 00:05:46.050 the EHCP to then be met for AAC devices for the 00:05:46.050 --> 00:05:48.949 right therapy it's almost like the relentlessness 00:05:48.949 --> 00:05:52.129 of the fight you just feel like you're getting 00:05:52.129 --> 00:05:55.379 somewhere and then you've just got a whole other 00:05:55.379 --> 00:05:57.860 barrier. Is that what makes it different? Is 00:05:57.860 --> 00:05:59.240 there even more than that? I think the difference 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:02.579 is as well is that, if you look at the diagnostic 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:08.040 criteria, workplace burnout is the only burnout 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:10.600 that is recognised. So if you look at the WHO 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.899 definition, which is the World Health Organisation, 00:06:14.740 --> 00:06:18.620 they only refer to workplace burnout. which I 00:06:18.620 --> 00:06:21.259 think is rubbish. And when I get into my occupational 00:06:21.259 --> 00:06:23.720 therapy hat on, when I'm looking at occupation 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.100 is more than just work, it's all the things that 00:06:26.100 --> 00:06:28.420 we have to do and want to do, is I don't understand 00:06:28.420 --> 00:06:30.980 how burnout can just happen in a workplace. Burnout 00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:34.660 can happen anywhere. And I think there is some 00:06:34.660 --> 00:06:38.759 research and some stats around burnout is higher 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:42.779 in parents with kids with additional needs. And 00:06:42.779 --> 00:06:45.709 I... suspect and I've got no evidence of this 00:06:45.709 --> 00:06:48.230 one but my kind of feeling of that is that we 00:06:48.230 --> 00:06:51.490 often find ourselves in systems that we are we 00:06:51.490 --> 00:06:54.029 can't change so when you burn out and you get 00:06:54.029 --> 00:06:57.319 stressed or overwhelmed by something the natural 00:06:57.319 --> 00:06:58.740 reaction is to go okay well I'm going to step 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:00.579 away from that I'm going to move away from it 00:07:00.579 --> 00:07:02.980 or if it's your job you might think well I'm 00:07:02.980 --> 00:07:04.459 not going to continue in that job I'll go get 00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:06.439 another job but when you're talking about parenting 00:07:06.439 --> 00:07:09.279 and you find yourself in systems that you can't 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:11.879 step outside of that's I think where you end 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:14.120 up with the parental burnout it is like you say 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:19.220 it's the consistent stress it's being overwhelmed 00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:25.939 and your capacity to deal with chronic stress 00:07:25.939 --> 00:07:28.399 that just keeps coming at you and you don't get 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:31.600 a chance to recover and there's the sciencey 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:33.959 bit behind that but basically we need to be able 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:37.319 to go into a part of our autonomic nervous system 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:39.860 to be able to recover from stress and when you're 00:07:39.860 --> 00:07:42.800 in high levels of stress which some of us as 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.439 parents in neurodivergent families are and for 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:49.699 me it was at some points I was trying to keep 00:07:49.699 --> 00:07:53.319 my son alive It was that serious and I was coming 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:56.680 up against a system that was unfeeling, uncaring, 00:07:56.839 --> 00:08:02.220 unmovable, uncontactable. There was no person. 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:07.040 It was just this thing in our lives that I felt 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.180 was having a huge impact on my family and our 00:08:11.180 --> 00:08:13.459 well -being and I couldn't change it. And as 00:08:13.459 --> 00:08:16.660 a parent, that is terrifying. Yeah, and I feel 00:08:16.660 --> 00:08:20.300 like I've seen parents that can take any... thing 00:08:20.300 --> 00:08:23.680 for themselves like they're mistreated they're 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:26.379 not spoken to they're ignored for themselves 00:08:26.379 --> 00:08:29.980 they can almost take that but it's one more step 00:08:29.980 --> 00:08:33.279 on it's the injustice of it all but it's the 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:36.320 most vulnerable in our society that are being 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.919 time and time again ignored and you don't you 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.960 have less time less energy less capacity to have 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:44.759 this fight and yet you're the ones that are forced 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:47.419 in this position But it's not even your fight. 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:50.039 You're fighting for your children, which makes 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.700 it even more burnoutable, I suppose, because 00:08:54.700 --> 00:08:57.600 you just have to keep going for them. I feel 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.080 like if it was for you, you would have stopped 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.600 ages ago. You would, like wrongly, obviously, 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:04.379 but you'd have stopped ages ago because you'd 00:09:04.379 --> 00:09:06.679 have just accepted, you know, that that can't 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:09.279 be done. Yeah. But of course you don't because 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:12.139 you're fighting for the voices. You're fighting 00:09:12.139 --> 00:09:15.500 for these people that you love so much. desperate 00:09:15.500 --> 00:09:18.000 to protect and of course that leads to burnout 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:22.419 because you're human yeah you just it outweighs 00:09:22.419 --> 00:09:25.200 your capacity to keep going and i think it was 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.500 you know as part of my burnout was that i went 00:09:28.500 --> 00:09:30.320 i got through the stuff that i needed to do and 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:32.480 that's often what happens you're running on adrenaline 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:34.860 and all your stress hormones are kicking in and 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:38.100 i got through the tribunal all but kind of all 00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:40.379 but carried across the finish line by an advocate 00:09:40.379 --> 00:09:42.960 that I thought I could get through tribunal. 00:09:42.980 --> 00:09:44.720 I couldn't. I had to get some support in to do 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:47.539 it. And it wasn't until we got through tribunal, 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:50.779 that's when my burnout hit. And boy, did it hit. 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:53.559 It came in from the side and literally took me 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:57.460 off my feet. And I think a lot of parents, the 00:09:57.460 --> 00:10:02.940 stress of dealing, because people think I'm talking 00:10:02.940 --> 00:10:04.980 about, when I talk about parental burnout, they 00:10:04.980 --> 00:10:06.860 think I'm talking about burnout from their children. 00:10:07.179 --> 00:10:10.159 Yes. I was saying that. Yeah, exactly that. I 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:11.620 think that's exactly what people think. They're 00:10:11.620 --> 00:10:14.360 like, oh, you're tired. You're like physically 00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:16.759 harmed. It's not at all true to the children. 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:20.080 If the systems were in place to support your 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:23.419 family, you'd thrive. Yeah, it's exactly that. 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:26.720 And I really try to push that point home is that, 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:29.799 yes, our kids stress us out. You know, I've met 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:31.480 parents that haven't got neurodivergent kids. 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.860 Their kids push them to the limits and kids do 00:10:33.860 --> 00:10:36.480 that to us. But this is kind of a next level 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:38.840 and it's being able to... you know more and more 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:40.720 I talk to parents and for me personally as well 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:43.220 it was about trying to keep my kids safe I needed 00:10:43.220 --> 00:10:46.799 to keep him safe and I wasn't being allowed to 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:49.100 do that as a parent and when you think about 00:10:49.100 --> 00:10:51.120 what's the kind of I mean my kids laugh and joke 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:52.980 at me because I'll go to them what's the one 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:55.259 thing I've got to do and they go keep us safe 00:10:57.400 --> 00:11:00.240 But ultimately that is the bottom line. As a 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:02.340 parent, I've got to make sure my kids get to 00:11:02.340 --> 00:11:04.519 the end of the day. If we get fed and everyone's 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:06.240 happy and watered and whatever, that's a bonus. 00:11:06.340 --> 00:11:08.360 But they are at the end of the day and I've got 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:10.320 them there. Okay, tick, I've done the job that 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:12.860 day. And you're coming up against systems that 00:11:12.860 --> 00:11:16.360 either don't allow you to do that or make it 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:19.639 so difficult to do that. And I hear lots of, 00:11:19.659 --> 00:11:21.659 and as part of being a professional, I've been 00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:23.980 in those conversations and heard those conversations 00:11:23.980 --> 00:11:27.019 of that parent. They're a tricky parent. They're 00:11:27.019 --> 00:11:29.240 a difficult parent. Watch out for that parent. 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:32.440 They're a bit of a handful. And mine, I try to 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:34.940 talk a lot now with professionals that I supervise 00:11:34.940 --> 00:11:37.980 and stuff like that. But why? Why do you think 00:11:37.980 --> 00:11:40.279 they're like that? Where's that come from? And 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:43.539 a lot of the time, I'd say 99 .9 % of the time, 00:11:43.580 --> 00:11:46.269 anxiety. They're really worried. They're frightened 00:11:46.269 --> 00:11:48.110 and they don't know what to do. So they come 00:11:48.110 --> 00:11:50.850 at it with the only skills they've got available 00:11:50.850 --> 00:11:54.149 to them. And that might be being really difficult. 00:11:54.490 --> 00:11:57.330 Yeah. And also, so sometimes I get students that 00:11:57.330 --> 00:12:00.429 are year five. So they're age 10. They've had 00:12:00.429 --> 00:12:03.049 10 years of fighting the health care system, 00:12:03.230 --> 00:12:05.970 the education system, county, all of these fights. 00:12:06.110 --> 00:12:08.809 They're used to that being their baseline. They're 00:12:08.809 --> 00:12:11.570 used to having to fight. So finally, when they 00:12:11.570 --> 00:12:14.960 come to us. They've still got that fight, that 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:17.100 adrenaline still spike. They're still ready for 00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:19.899 it to go wrong because everything else has before. 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.980 And you've got to respect that as an educator. 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:24.460 If you're a teacher listening and you've got 00:12:24.460 --> 00:12:26.500 these fight or fright parents, that is what it 00:12:26.500 --> 00:12:29.080 is. They are waiting for it to fail because they've 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:33.419 only ever. And they don't feel safe. The kids 00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:35.659 aren't safe and they don't feel safe. And when 00:12:35.659 --> 00:12:38.559 you're in that part of your brain, in that stress 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.580 response, you are in protection mode. It's fight, 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:43.679 flight or freeze. And there's others, but fight, 00:12:43.700 --> 00:12:45.860 flight and freeze are your main ones. And as 00:12:45.860 --> 00:12:47.840 you say, if you've got a parent that's been in 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:51.019 that stress response for so long, moving out 00:12:51.019 --> 00:12:53.519 of that takes a long time, a long, long time. 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:56.500 And I think there's some difficulty in some of 00:12:56.500 --> 00:12:59.450 the work that I do with parents is... They often 00:12:59.450 --> 00:13:01.610 don't realise they're burnt out. It's become 00:13:01.610 --> 00:13:05.049 normal. They're literally functioning. I was 00:13:05.049 --> 00:13:07.330 functioning. I had two kids. I'm a solo parent. 00:13:07.429 --> 00:13:11.049 I had no choice. But I was burnt out. I couldn't 00:13:11.049 --> 00:13:13.190 give my kids what they needed. Somebody said 00:13:13.190 --> 00:13:15.909 to me once, you know, what do you enjoy doing? 00:13:16.149 --> 00:13:17.870 I just burst into tears on them because I thought, 00:13:17.889 --> 00:13:20.230 I don't know anymore. I'm so used to being in 00:13:20.230 --> 00:13:22.909 this protection mode. Doing things that I enjoyed 00:13:22.909 --> 00:13:25.590 had gone out the window completely. Yeah, you 00:13:25.590 --> 00:13:27.549 didn't even know yourself. Is that the long... 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.299 term effect of being in this mode and are there 00:13:31.299 --> 00:13:33.720 other long -term effects that you're noticing 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:36.879 either in yourself or in others of this long 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:41.279 -term sustained burnout mode I think some I think 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.519 the main one for me was the exhaustion and I 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:46.179 think most parents will kind of go to you oh 00:13:46.179 --> 00:13:47.940 that's just being a parent you're always tired 00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:52.049 but this exhaustion was different I knew it was 00:13:52.049 --> 00:13:54.269 different it was and the only way I could describe 00:13:54.269 --> 00:13:57.190 it is it's bone tired a bit like you know when 00:13:57.190 --> 00:14:01.769 you get flu like I can't physically move my bones 00:14:01.769 --> 00:14:06.870 ache um it's that level of exhaustion on a daily 00:14:06.870 --> 00:14:08.669 basis that you're kind of you get up and you 00:14:08.669 --> 00:14:11.970 go through the process but if you gave me a bed 00:14:11.970 --> 00:14:13.970 to lie down on I would probably just that would 00:14:13.970 --> 00:14:15.429 be me done and you probably wouldn't get me back 00:14:15.429 --> 00:14:18.049 out of it um and People say to me, well, take 00:14:18.049 --> 00:14:19.970 a rest. But there was always that fear in me 00:14:19.970 --> 00:14:21.289 that if I took a rest, I wouldn't get back up 00:14:21.289 --> 00:14:24.649 again. So I just kept going and kept going and 00:14:24.649 --> 00:14:26.970 kept going and kept going. And so it's things 00:14:26.970 --> 00:14:30.570 like that. It's things like I found my tolerance 00:14:30.570 --> 00:14:33.649 to things went down. We probably might touch 00:14:33.649 --> 00:14:36.250 on some sensory stuff later. But for me, I know 00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:39.070 I can be tactile defensive. I find being touched 00:14:39.070 --> 00:14:41.730 quite a lot quite difficult. But I can kind of 00:14:41.730 --> 00:14:46.120 manage it. But when I was in burnout, whoa. Don't 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:48.480 come anywhere near me. And I've got one that's 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:52.360 a real hugger. And he loves a hug. And that was 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:55.659 really hard to find a way through. And what do 00:14:55.659 --> 00:14:59.980 I do? Do I mask my needs as a parent and give 00:14:59.980 --> 00:15:02.139 him what he needs? Or do we find a way through? 00:15:02.259 --> 00:15:04.980 We had to find a way through. That meant I could 00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:08.840 respect my sensory system and what that needed. 00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:11.500 But also I could make that connection with him 00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:13.360 and make sure he could still get what he needed. 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:15.299 And we still needed that contact, but could we 00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:16.960 do it in a different way? I suppose that adds 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.379 to the cycle as well, doesn't it? Of you're feeling 00:15:19.379 --> 00:15:21.399 burnt out, so you can't give him what he needs. 00:15:21.539 --> 00:15:23.840 So you either mask yourself and get yourself 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:28.059 worse or you ignore, is the wrong word, but don't 00:15:28.059 --> 00:15:30.639 give him the exact needs he wants. And then you 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:32.759 feel more shame and you get more burnt out and 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:34.919 the cycle continues. And that's probably happening 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.440 in so many different areas of your life in so 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.940 many different ways. And I think as parents, 00:15:40.059 --> 00:15:43.460 we are notorious at putting our needs bottom 00:15:43.460 --> 00:15:45.879 of the pile. Everybody else's needs get put first. 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:47.639 And if there's some space left over, then we 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:49.519 might do something. Women as well. Parents and 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:52.279 women. I think like the double up of that. I 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:55.879 feel like there's three layers there of just 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:59.340 all really bad at meeting your own needs and 00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:01.500 putting your needs first. Don't meet my needs. 00:16:01.539 --> 00:16:03.779 Sometimes don't know what my needs are. I'm going 00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:06.100 to mask them. And mine needs aren't as important 00:16:06.100 --> 00:16:09.639 as everybody else's. Again, I try to be really 00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:13.419 clear. I'm not saying that parents, we suddenly 00:16:13.419 --> 00:16:15.379 forget about what our kids need, dump them. It's 00:16:15.379 --> 00:16:17.580 all about us. Yeah, it's unrealistic, isn't it? 00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:21.179 That just isn't it. What it is saying is often 00:16:21.179 --> 00:16:24.379 I'll say to parents, but what do you do? What 00:16:24.379 --> 00:16:27.320 do you do for you? And often I get met with tears 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.399 or a silence with people desperately thinking, 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.539 I don't know. Or the other one I will get is 00:16:34.539 --> 00:16:38.419 trying to explain away why they can't. And I 00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:41.460 get that because we don't have huge amounts of 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:43.480 time. You know, people used to say to me, you 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:44.840 just need to go and do this or you just need 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:46.419 to go and do that. I think, when am I going to 00:16:46.419 --> 00:16:49.059 do that? I've got a really unwell mental health, 00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:51.799 but his mental health is really poorly. I've 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:54.200 got another one in school. I'm working, cleaning 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:56.399 the house, doing dinner. When am I going to do 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:58.639 that? But I think once I kind of came out of 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:00.960 my burnout and was able to put my OT hat back 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:04.019 on, I knew I had to find a way to do something 00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:07.339 for me each day, even if. It was the tiniest 00:17:07.339 --> 00:17:09.539 thing. And I've got this thing at the moment 00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:11.759 that I do, and the boys will laugh at me, but 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:14.200 I sit with a cup of tea at least once a day on 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:16.920 the back doorstep with the door open. Even in 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.539 the rain, even in the cold, just because it gives 00:17:20.539 --> 00:17:24.720 me a couple of minutes. Do I always get my whole 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.500 cup of tea drunk? No. But there is an element 00:17:27.500 --> 00:17:29.460 of protected space. I can still hear the kids 00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:31.039 in the background. If it's all kicking off, I 00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:34.519 can go and help. But they know that's my time. 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:36.660 And I will say to them, if I can, and it's safe 00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:40.440 to, just give me two minutes. I've got one that 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.380 will set a timer. Give me two minutes. I need 00:17:43.380 --> 00:17:45.839 this time out somewhere. And I talk about it 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.420 being a pause rather than a full stop. You can 00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:51.039 find time for a pause, but we can't always find 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.579 time for great big long, you know, I'm going 00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:55.500 to take the whole day off and go to a spa. That's 00:17:55.500 --> 00:17:57.259 not going to happen. And do you think that little 00:17:57.259 --> 00:18:01.180 and often has helped you be realistic? Absolutely. 00:18:01.460 --> 00:18:03.740 It's little and often finding something to do 00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:06.680 for me and trying to bring back in. And it sounds 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:09.440 a bit cheesy, but bringing in a bit of joy for 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:13.220 me. Because I really did get to that point where 00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:16.259 I thought, I don't know what I like anymore. 00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:20.660 I don't know what I do that I enjoy. Some of 00:18:20.660 --> 00:18:23.480 that I think is probably all parents go through 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.019 that. There's an element of we take on a parenting 00:18:26.019 --> 00:18:28.650 role. Our life becomes about taking the kids 00:18:28.650 --> 00:18:30.730 wherever they want to go, whatever they want 00:18:30.730 --> 00:18:33.710 to do. And we do lose a sense of who we are. 00:18:33.769 --> 00:18:36.210 And possibly as well, we get to a certain age 00:18:36.210 --> 00:18:38.750 where the activities that we did in our 20s are 00:18:38.750 --> 00:18:41.970 not what we can do in our mid 40s. You know, 00:18:41.990 --> 00:18:43.490 I decided I was going to go back to netball. 00:18:43.609 --> 00:18:47.289 My body did not thank me for that. Maybe a bit 00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:50.190 ambitious. Yeah. But I thought, I know what I'm 00:18:50.190 --> 00:18:51.809 going to find something for me. Also how great 00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:54.130 that that's what you were thinking. Like, it's 00:18:54.130 --> 00:18:56.990 almost like. that you had gone and tried it. 00:18:57.190 --> 00:18:59.890 Like that's sometimes just trying something new 00:18:59.890 --> 00:19:03.190 is the thing, isn't it? Absolutely. And I think, 00:19:03.190 --> 00:19:05.769 I mean, people that follow me will know that 00:19:05.769 --> 00:19:07.950 I have, I've decided to ride a motorbike. I'm 00:19:07.950 --> 00:19:11.049 47 years old. I'm arthritic. I struggle with 00:19:11.049 --> 00:19:14.250 my arthritis, but I thought I'm going to learn 00:19:14.250 --> 00:19:16.039 to ride a motorbike. Why not? I'm just going 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:18.380 to do that. And there are some days that I get 00:19:18.380 --> 00:19:21.079 on the motorbike and I just go around and do 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:23.039 little loops outside. I'm still learning, so 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:25.140 I'm still not that great. It's really hard as 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:28.140 well. I learned to ride last year and it's really 00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:31.519 hard. That feeling of also doing something new, 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:33.339 doing something difficult, doing something hard. 00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:35.619 You also, when you're learning something like 00:19:35.619 --> 00:19:37.839 that, you have to really concentrate. It's very 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.839 mindful. You have to be in the now. You cannot 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:44.099 be thinking about anything else other than your 00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:45.940 gears, your balance, what's happening on the 00:19:45.940 --> 00:19:49.640 road and all of those things. And maybe if meditation 00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:51.740 doesn't work, that's your meditation. You have 00:19:51.740 --> 00:19:53.700 to be, like, active in your meditation. You have 00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:56.680 to be active in your mindfulness. And, yeah, 00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:58.559 doing something difficult and active, I can imagine, 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:01.440 is a great thing to do. Yeah. I mean, probably 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.680 motorbiking is probably quite extreme. I'm not 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:05.440 saying to everyone, like, if you motorbike, you'll 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:07.480 have, like, masses of mums now gearing up for 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:10.579 motorbiking. I mean, I'm here for it. I think 00:20:10.579 --> 00:20:12.579 it'd be great. Absolutely. Put the kids in a 00:20:12.579 --> 00:20:16.670 sidecar. I'm here for it. But like you said, 00:20:16.769 --> 00:20:18.789 there's also for me, there's a massive sensory 00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:23.329 element in biking. And I've got a partner that 00:20:23.329 --> 00:20:25.509 bikes and that's how I first got into it is I 00:20:25.509 --> 00:20:28.269 go pillion with him. And he said he thinks I'm 00:20:28.269 --> 00:20:29.930 the only person that he knows that gets on as 00:20:29.930 --> 00:20:32.150 a pillion rider and can go to sleep on the back 00:20:32.150 --> 00:20:35.210 of the motorbike. Which, don't worry, I am safe. 00:20:35.529 --> 00:20:37.410 He's got like a one that's kind of... Is it the 00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:40.269 white noise? Is it the vibration? The white noise 00:20:40.269 --> 00:20:43.349 and the vibration. So when you're on the motorbike, 00:20:43.410 --> 00:20:46.190 you just get that sound with all the wind. I 00:20:46.190 --> 00:20:49.369 think there's no demands of me. I can't pick 00:20:49.369 --> 00:20:51.150 up a telephone. I can't respond to anything. 00:20:51.789 --> 00:20:54.109 And sometimes my partner laughs as I get off 00:20:54.109 --> 00:20:55.970 the other end and I go, I've had about 20 billion 00:20:55.970 --> 00:20:58.849 different ideas, usually about work, and I'm 00:20:58.849 --> 00:21:00.490 off about something. He's like, oh God, she's 00:21:00.490 --> 00:21:04.069 off. But other times I get that space and that 00:21:04.069 --> 00:21:07.130 quiet. He's driving. I don't even think about 00:21:07.130 --> 00:21:08.910 the driving. I literally just sit. And like you 00:21:08.910 --> 00:21:11.549 say, in the moment, I've got countryside around 00:21:11.549 --> 00:21:14.809 me or whatever it is around me. and and the vibrations 00:21:14.809 --> 00:21:16.670 with me and i can just film what i start like 00:21:16.670 --> 00:21:18.650 this i think he can tell because my helmet will 00:21:18.650 --> 00:21:24.130 hit the back of his you'll have to get in um 00:21:24.130 --> 00:21:27.309 helmet mike so that he can yeah are you still 00:21:27.309 --> 00:21:31.289 with me yeah hello hello after liz yeah yeah 00:21:31.289 --> 00:21:34.730 whereas i think you say with the driving if parents 00:21:34.730 --> 00:21:38.009 can't have access to a motorbike with your ot 00:21:38.009 --> 00:21:41.670 hat on what are the sensory things that they 00:21:41.670 --> 00:21:45.980 can do regulate and be in their bodies and ground 00:21:45.980 --> 00:21:47.200 themselves because that's what we're talking 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.680 about here isn't it yeah so the biggest thing 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:51.660 i would say is one is finding something that 00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:54.339 you enjoy and brings you some form of joy whatever 00:21:54.339 --> 00:21:58.160 that is and the other thing is movement and that 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:00.839 movement can be any kind of movement and we know 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.880 that when we get stressed and anxious our bodies 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.319 produce chemicals within us to keep us safe get 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:09.240 us ready for flight flight freeze responses all 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:12.349 that kind of stuff but actually In the days when 00:22:12.349 --> 00:22:15.589 we would have run, we would have used those chemicals 00:22:15.589 --> 00:22:18.430 to be able to do those things. When that doesn't 00:22:18.430 --> 00:22:20.829 happen now, it stays within our body. We get 00:22:20.829 --> 00:22:23.430 like a truncated response. It stays within us. 00:22:23.750 --> 00:22:25.829 And then that's what can make us poorly. High 00:22:25.829 --> 00:22:28.869 levels of cortisol, all that kind of stuff. So 00:22:28.869 --> 00:22:31.829 we need to move our bodies. And we know from 00:22:31.829 --> 00:22:34.309 a sensory perspective that is calming and regulating. 00:22:34.690 --> 00:22:37.529 And it can be anything. I'll say to some of my 00:22:37.529 --> 00:22:39.480 parents, you can't get out. If you've got kids 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.180 that have got significant needs that you can't 00:22:43.180 --> 00:22:45.019 leave the house, I'm talking about just walking 00:22:45.019 --> 00:22:47.339 up and down the stairs three times, that kind 00:22:47.339 --> 00:22:49.460 of thing. If you've got a garden, but it's only 00:22:49.460 --> 00:22:51.400 a little one, can you walk around the garden 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.259 and be outside? But how can you move your body 00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:59.859 today in some way? If that's having a dance with 00:22:59.859 --> 00:23:03.480 one of the kids, if it's a walk that you've got 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.500 that you do. you know even just round the block 00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:09.180 a really quick one and some people will say and 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:11.619 I think I felt like that is when I was deep in 00:23:11.619 --> 00:23:14.460 burnout I couldn't even I couldn't I couldn't 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:16.359 go outside I didn't want to go outside and movement 00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:18.859 was really hard and what I'd say at those points 00:23:18.859 --> 00:23:23.460 is even just thinking about going to do it can 00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:26.559 help So it might be, I don't get too much into 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:29.319 the visualization stuff and making things, I'd 00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:31.940 ground it very much in reality. So if you've 00:23:31.940 --> 00:23:34.180 got a loop that you do around your house, you 00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:37.079 know, around the block, could you visualize that 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:39.859 loop that you just start to think about doing 00:23:39.859 --> 00:23:41.579 it? Because starting to think about it will mean 00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:43.619 you'll get to the point of being able to do it. 00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:48.220 But actually the tendency and what we tend to 00:23:48.220 --> 00:23:50.500 want to do is to do nothing when we're burnt 00:23:50.500 --> 00:23:54.079 out. We just stop and I'll get my... OT hat on 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:57.339 that actually we need to be doing within reason 00:23:57.339 --> 00:24:00.779 we need to be able to recover but we are occupational 00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:03.859 beings we are doing beings and that when we stay 00:24:03.859 --> 00:24:06.720 still for too long that can make us even more 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.640 poorly so I think movement is a big thing for 00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:12.119 me sensory wise I think that's a benefit for 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:13.859 the children as well not only to have a more 00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:18.599 regulated co -regulated parent But also the movement 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:20.960 for them, the outside time for them is also important. 00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:23.200 So don't think of it as, oh, I'm being so selfish, 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:25.299 I'm doing this for me, which would often just 00:24:25.299 --> 00:24:29.880 build this cycle. Actually, you are doing it 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:32.400 for them. Everything you do to make yourself 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:34.779 more regulated, more grounded and more ready, 00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:38.160 it's going to make you better for them. Absolutely. 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.640 And I think what's hard for parents is people 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:44.019 like you and I, Jordan, that know about our sensory 00:24:44.019 --> 00:24:47.279 systems. A lot of parents, and I've done some 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:50.660 work with this with parents, is they can tell 00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:52.740 me their kid's sensory system and their kid's 00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:55.019 sensory profile. They don't know theirs. And 00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:57.480 so I do some work with parents around starting 00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:00.839 to recognize your own sensory profile. Because 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.359 sometimes our sensory profiles clash with our 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:05.400 kids. Yeah, well, like you said, with the hugging, 00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:08.440 it makes so much sense that once you knew that, 00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:11.240 you could honor their need and your own. Whereas 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.759 without knowing your own, you're just wondering. 00:25:14.520 --> 00:25:16.759 why it feels so difficult for you to meet their 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:19.500 needs without realizing why I think internally 00:25:19.500 --> 00:25:21.680 what I would do then with that before I kind 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.359 of put two and two together which seems ridiculous 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:25.720 as no tea but I think when you're in it it's 00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:28.299 really hard to get the perspective isn't it hopefully 00:25:28.299 --> 00:25:32.819 so I think When I was in it, I felt very shameful 00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:35.460 of that reaction. It made me feel like I was 00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:37.220 a bad parent, that I didn't want my kids near 00:25:37.220 --> 00:25:40.019 me, that I should be enjoying my time with my 00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:42.279 kids. I should enjoy a hug with my kids. And 00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:45.759 I'm an awful person because they're trying to 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:48.299 hug me and I want them to be as far away as possible. 00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:50.480 That's really hard. It wasn't until I had to 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:51.880 start working through that and thinking, why 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:55.299 am I feeling that? I know why you're feeling 00:25:55.299 --> 00:25:57.619 that. Because actually, you don't like being 00:25:57.619 --> 00:26:00.380 hugged by anyone particularly. And when I'm stressed, 00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:03.680 that's even harder. That tolerance has gone. 00:26:04.220 --> 00:26:06.220 So we talk about being curious, don't we? Being 00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:08.180 curious about why our children are doing certain 00:26:08.180 --> 00:26:10.680 things and the importance of curiosity rather 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:13.140 than, you know, seeing it as what we believe 00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:15.700 is like negative behavior or purposeful or attention 00:26:15.700 --> 00:26:16.920 seeking or anything like that. Let's just be 00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:19.500 curious. But maybe we're not being curious enough 00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:22.079 about our own needs. Why are we struggling with 00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:24.779 certain things? Why are we not enjoying a certain 00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:27.200 experience? Why are we avoidant of certain things 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.680 and being curious about our own selves too? What 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:35.039 are some ways that if you've got a parent that 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:38.460 is exactly as you describe in your support network, 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:40.660 or maybe you're a teacher, you know, you're aware 00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:43.359 of what you're talking about isn't them, but 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:46.079 it's definitely someone they know about. How 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:49.680 can they be actual help to that person? Is there 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:51.519 a way that they could be actual help to that 00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:54.200 person? It's really funny because I often, when 00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:56.420 I'm talking direct to the parents, I talk to 00:26:56.420 --> 00:26:59.700 them about finding a safe circle and finding 00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:02.299 a safe circle with people that you feel you can 00:27:02.299 --> 00:27:04.960 be really open and honest about when you're talking. 00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.220 Those people that don't have those people in 00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:10.460 your group that go, you just need to, you know, 00:27:10.460 --> 00:27:12.259 you just need to go and get some more self -care. 00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:15.450 You just need to go and do whatever it is. is 00:27:15.450 --> 00:27:17.509 making sure you've got that safe circle. I think 00:27:17.509 --> 00:27:20.210 if you're working with people like a parent and 00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:23.490 you suspect they could be burnt out, is recognising 00:27:23.490 --> 00:27:26.390 that. And I don't mean by going, I think you're 00:27:26.390 --> 00:27:29.210 burnt out to the parent. But acknowledging to 00:27:29.210 --> 00:27:31.589 you and yourself and the way that you're working 00:27:31.589 --> 00:27:35.569 with that parent is thinking, okay, this parent 00:27:35.569 --> 00:27:37.950 possibly could be burnt out. If they are burnt 00:27:37.950 --> 00:27:39.490 out, they are going to be struggling to take 00:27:39.490 --> 00:27:42.109 on information. They are going to be struggling 00:27:42.109 --> 00:27:44.930 to implement what. I'm asking them to do because 00:27:44.930 --> 00:27:47.730 often as professionals, we are saying to parents 00:27:47.730 --> 00:27:50.009 all the things we need them to go and do on top 00:27:50.009 --> 00:27:53.029 of all the other things they are doing. And I 00:27:53.029 --> 00:27:55.109 work quite, in my days when I work more with 00:27:55.109 --> 00:27:57.230 the kids, I used to be really mindful of that. 00:27:57.289 --> 00:27:59.549 I wasn't sending parents home with more and more 00:27:59.549 --> 00:28:01.890 work to do and more and more demand on them because 00:28:01.890 --> 00:28:04.650 actually that's really, really hard. They've 00:28:04.650 --> 00:28:07.670 got enough to do. And I know some professionals 00:28:07.670 --> 00:28:09.230 would be like, they just come in and want me 00:28:09.230 --> 00:28:11.490 to sort their kids out. Of course they do. They 00:28:11.490 --> 00:28:14.069 are knackered. They were absolutely shattered. 00:28:14.789 --> 00:28:16.789 And then the thought of another professional 00:28:16.789 --> 00:28:18.750 saying to them, oh, here's a program to take 00:28:18.750 --> 00:28:20.490 home. Here's a this to deliver. Here's a this 00:28:20.490 --> 00:28:23.750 to practice. Which is obvious, right? Let's not 00:28:23.750 --> 00:28:27.029 fool ourselves. I've had so many meetings where 00:28:27.029 --> 00:28:29.809 it might as well be targets for the parent rather 00:28:29.809 --> 00:28:32.309 than targets. child yes because it's right you 00:28:32.309 --> 00:28:34.349 just need to do symbols you just need to start 00:28:34.349 --> 00:28:36.490 an AAC device but you need to model it at all 00:28:36.490 --> 00:28:39.170 times and you just need to start sensory circuits 00:28:39.170 --> 00:28:41.390 you know four or five times a day and you just 00:28:41.390 --> 00:28:43.970 need and it's this parent goes home with just 00:28:43.970 --> 00:28:47.150 so much many things and targets and unrealistic 00:28:47.150 --> 00:28:51.750 things to do yes they'd all be wonderful of course 00:28:51.750 --> 00:28:55.049 they'd be all great they're not wrong is it realistic 00:28:55.049 --> 00:28:59.390 are we just putting that family into burnout 00:28:59.390 --> 00:29:02.630 even more yes and i think it's you know how can 00:29:02.630 --> 00:29:05.809 you what could you take off that parent if you 00:29:05.809 --> 00:29:07.269 want them to do something is there something 00:29:07.269 --> 00:29:09.210 else you could take off is there a telephone 00:29:09.210 --> 00:29:11.150 call you could make that they've been trying 00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:13.390 to make and not getting a response to where could 00:29:13.390 --> 00:29:16.410 you support that parent what could you do to 00:29:16.410 --> 00:29:18.190 support them and then the other thing that i 00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:21.190 talk about as well with professionals is is starting 00:29:21.190 --> 00:29:24.730 to recognize sensory stuff and doing that by 00:29:24.730 --> 00:29:27.359 kind of modeling for ourselves So I often don't 00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:29.619 get into, you know, telling a parent where they 00:29:29.619 --> 00:29:32.119 might have sensory needs. But what you might 00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:34.400 do is start talking about you as a teacher or 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:36.819 you as a whatever professional you are, or if 00:29:36.819 --> 00:29:38.759 you're a friend or whatever it is, talking about 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:41.240 your sensory needs. You know, I find it really 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:44.759 difficult normalizing language around sensory 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:49.359 reactions that we've all got a sensory profile, 00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:51.839 every single one of us. And every single one 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:53.859 of us is unique in our sensory profile. No one's 00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:57.450 is the same. And they flex and they move depending 00:29:57.450 --> 00:29:59.849 on our stress levels or how safe and relaxed 00:29:59.849 --> 00:30:02.750 we feel. But normalising language around sensory 00:30:02.750 --> 00:30:06.089 information and sensory processing and our sensory 00:30:06.089 --> 00:30:10.990 reactions, our sensory needs. I often, parents 00:30:10.990 --> 00:30:13.809 will say to me, oh, so -and -so's got weighted 00:30:13.809 --> 00:30:16.410 blankets is often a very common one. I steal 00:30:16.410 --> 00:30:18.970 it all the time. I'm like, steal it more? In 00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:21.390 fact, get yourself one. You don't have to feel 00:30:21.390 --> 00:30:25.690 bad about using. a weighted blanket, if it feels 00:30:25.690 --> 00:30:29.269 nice, use it more. You've found something that 00:30:29.269 --> 00:30:33.509 works. And things like, you know, often parents 00:30:33.509 --> 00:30:36.029 go to me, oh, you know, I've got like, they call 00:30:36.029 --> 00:30:37.289 them fidget toys or whatever you want to call 00:30:37.289 --> 00:30:39.589 them. But they've got something, they've stolen 00:30:39.589 --> 00:30:42.049 it off one of the kids that they will kind of 00:30:42.049 --> 00:30:43.490 say, well, yeah, when I'm on meetings and stuff 00:30:43.490 --> 00:30:46.670 on calls, on Zoom calls, I've got one and I use 00:30:46.670 --> 00:30:49.309 it. Use it more. Put it in your handbag. Take 00:30:49.309 --> 00:30:52.079 it with you somewhere. Have it. Wherever it might 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:54.680 be, if you're going to a meeting that's really 00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:58.460 tricky, take it with you. Help find a way that 00:30:58.460 --> 00:31:02.039 you can regulate your sensory system. And sometimes 00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:04.519 that's just playing around with what works for 00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.920 you and what doesn't, if that makes sense. I 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.980 put on parents, that would make it harder, making 00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:14.720 them do the phone call. giving them unnecessary 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.099 targets even unnecessary meetings you know it 00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:18.799 doesn't need to be a meeting or can it just be 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:21.799 an email giving things visually as well maybe 00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:23.819 giving them a list written down of all the information 00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:25.640 rather than saying over the phone and expecting 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:28.539 them to retain that information and that isn't 00:31:28.539 --> 00:31:30.559 patronizing this isn't patronizing this is support 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:32.980 systems and if you genuinely want to help his 00:31:32.980 --> 00:31:35.140 family then then this is what can make and then 00:31:35.140 --> 00:31:37.059 maybe also just making sure that you have the 00:31:37.059 --> 00:31:40.220 relationship and embed that kind of relationship 00:31:40.220 --> 00:31:43.839 where they can say what they need or can say 00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:46.039 when something is or isn't helpful because without 00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:48.480 that they're just going to stay in that unsafe 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:51.279 mode you know it's really important to try and 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:52.960 build on that relationship and that trust as 00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.380 much as you can And that starts with you liking 00:31:56.380 --> 00:31:58.640 and loving and advocating for their child as 00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:01.180 much as they are. I think if they see that, that 00:32:01.180 --> 00:32:04.559 is a really easy way of building trust with them 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.759 because ultimately that is all they want from 00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:08.880 the world is just for their child to be seen 00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:11.420 and heard and loved. So even if you can't do 00:32:11.420 --> 00:32:13.779 anything with the parent, just love their child, 00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.759 I would say, is probably the easiest advice I 00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.900 could give because it just means, I mean, God, 00:32:21.019 --> 00:32:23.839 I've had parents in tears over. burnout for sure 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:26.180 but when they really go is when they just see 00:32:26.180 --> 00:32:29.059 that we love and see their child because they 00:32:29.059 --> 00:32:33.839 just yeah relief finally it's not just me that 00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:36.940 loves their child see no it's not just me that 00:32:36.940 --> 00:32:40.160 doesn't see him as unlikable unlovable unteachable 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:42.119 and all those things that they've been maybe 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:45.130 not told as clearly as that but through behaviors 00:32:45.130 --> 00:32:46.869 of other people or through attitudes of other 00:32:46.869 --> 00:32:48.849 people they've certainly been shown that they 00:32:48.849 --> 00:32:51.869 think those things so just to love their child 00:32:51.869 --> 00:32:54.210 and see and advocate for their child as much 00:32:54.210 --> 00:32:57.130 as they do is a huge start you know and then 00:32:57.130 --> 00:32:59.230 work off of that in that relationship building 00:32:59.230 --> 00:33:01.690 that certainly that's certainly the way i go 00:33:01.690 --> 00:33:05.750 is um and as a as a special education teacher 00:33:05.750 --> 00:33:07.630 and all teachers are special education teachers 00:33:07.630 --> 00:33:12.940 um these days I think it is crucial that we prioritise 00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:15.259 those relationships. It's a really intimate relationship, 00:33:15.500 --> 00:33:18.900 the teacher -parent relationship when you've 00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:21.779 got a send child, because your child might not 00:33:21.779 --> 00:33:24.660 be able to communicate between home and school 00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:26.819 as well as other children can. Even if they have 00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:28.819 words, they still might not be able to communicate 00:33:28.819 --> 00:33:31.079 what's happened. You know, they're quite vulnerable 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:32.880 in that way and that can breed a lot of fear. 00:33:33.619 --> 00:33:35.980 So as teachers, if we're really supporting that 00:33:35.980 --> 00:33:40.329 communication. and yeah building that relationship 00:33:40.329 --> 00:33:43.170 we have our kids in our class for seven years 00:33:43.170 --> 00:33:46.769 um and we're like family by the time they leave 00:33:46.769 --> 00:33:50.430 year six we really are um I love that I know 00:33:50.430 --> 00:33:52.829 what football teams they support and all their 00:33:52.829 --> 00:33:55.490 siblings names and you know their dad's names 00:33:55.490 --> 00:33:57.190 and their grandma I recognize at the gate and 00:33:57.190 --> 00:33:59.890 all those wonderful things you just know them 00:33:59.890 --> 00:34:02.690 so intimately and even if you've got a child 00:34:02.690 --> 00:34:04.809 for a year you know I think it's really important 00:34:04.809 --> 00:34:09.829 that we We, as teachers, prioritise that, actually 00:34:09.829 --> 00:34:12.269 really seeing the family, knowing the family 00:34:12.269 --> 00:34:15.949 and not just doing the... Absolutely. I think 00:34:15.949 --> 00:34:19.210 it feels often our kids that have got additional 00:34:19.210 --> 00:34:22.010 needs are quite vulnerable in whatever way it 00:34:22.010 --> 00:34:26.349 is. Even those kids that maybe their behaviours 00:34:26.349 --> 00:34:28.849 are bigger behaviours, more outward behaviours, 00:34:28.849 --> 00:34:35.690 that even those kids are vulnerable. But us as 00:34:35.690 --> 00:34:39.730 parents to go, yeah, have my child. You know, 00:34:39.730 --> 00:34:41.750 I remember sometimes my kids going to school 00:34:41.750 --> 00:34:44.869 and everything in me is screaming, don't send 00:34:44.869 --> 00:34:47.969 them. Keep hold of them. They're not safe. You 00:34:47.969 --> 00:34:50.389 keep hold of them. I don't trust what's going 00:34:50.389 --> 00:34:53.050 to happen when they're out of my sight. And some 00:34:53.050 --> 00:34:54.489 people would go, oh, that's overattachment and 00:34:54.489 --> 00:34:56.230 all that kind of stuff. No, I think that was 00:34:56.230 --> 00:34:59.050 just being a mum and being a mum. They're not 00:34:59.050 --> 00:35:01.849 safe. Let's be honest. Like in school, sometimes 00:35:01.849 --> 00:35:04.300 their needs aren't met. best they can sometimes 00:35:04.300 --> 00:35:06.820 they're not heard or listened to sometimes damaging 00:35:06.820 --> 00:35:09.960 and harmful systems are used so actually as a 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:11.579 parent it's really important you listen to that 00:35:11.579 --> 00:35:13.800 gut sense because let's safeguard your children 00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.619 and definitely have that open communication and 00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:19.360 definitely be that tricky parent of questioning 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:21.639 systems things if they don't feel right in your 00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:24.500 gut please question them I'd way rather be questioned 00:35:24.500 --> 00:35:27.860 and you know, have a moment to either justify 00:35:27.860 --> 00:35:30.340 my response or maybe question what I'm doing 00:35:30.340 --> 00:35:33.059 if a parent isn't sure. So please be that tricky 00:35:33.059 --> 00:35:36.139 parent first off. And please give us as much 00:35:36.139 --> 00:35:38.179 information as you want us to know. Something 00:35:38.179 --> 00:35:41.039 that I get asked a lot when children are starting 00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:42.980 school for the first time, whatever age they 00:35:42.980 --> 00:35:44.400 are, you know, they could be starting a new setting 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.539 or whatever, what information to give. And I 00:35:46.539 --> 00:35:49.619 just say... give me everything. Don't worry about 00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:51.579 being that parent of like, oh, they do this on 00:35:51.579 --> 00:35:53.159 a Monday and they don't like this and they do 00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:55.019 that. Please tell us everything because it gives 00:35:55.019 --> 00:35:57.619 us something to work off of. I love the parents 00:35:57.619 --> 00:35:59.360 that write in the homeschool book every day and 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:02.260 are calling, emailing and all those things or 00:36:02.260 --> 00:36:04.260 talking to us at the gate because it gets us 00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:06.019 to know you and your child and it definitely 00:36:06.019 --> 00:36:08.360 makes the job. a lot easier and then maybe as 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:09.820 teachers we could be doing the same for parents 00:36:09.820 --> 00:36:11.960 making sure we're communicating what they've 00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:13.840 done that day what they found tricky you know 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:15.780 what isn't going well and being honest about 00:36:15.780 --> 00:36:18.440 that rather than hiding it I feel like goes a 00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:20.380 long way about building that trust as well what 00:36:20.380 --> 00:36:23.019 are we struggling with maybe we ask the parent 00:36:23.019 --> 00:36:24.860 what they do what have they tried what do they 00:36:24.860 --> 00:36:28.289 suggest you know giving them a voice for the 00:36:28.289 --> 00:36:32.510 first time um advocate for their child and to 00:36:32.510 --> 00:36:34.730 support us to support them i think is really 00:36:34.730 --> 00:36:36.429 important because ultimately the parent is the 00:36:36.429 --> 00:36:39.170 expert in their in their child yeah we talk about 00:36:39.170 --> 00:36:41.429 experts and parents the parents are the experts 00:36:41.429 --> 00:36:44.469 but often i think they don't feel well they might 00:36:44.469 --> 00:36:46.750 feel it but they it's not acknowledged as that 00:36:46.750 --> 00:36:48.550 and i think you know i even experienced that 00:36:48.550 --> 00:36:52.920 going into meetings for my son is I've run meetings, 00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:55.699 I've run an EHCP, I've done all sorts of stuff 00:36:55.699 --> 00:36:57.960 as an occupational therapist. But when I went 00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:02.840 into a meeting as a mum, as my son's mum, I suddenly 00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:06.019 felt I had no voice. My voice disappeared. And 00:37:06.019 --> 00:37:07.880 actually in some of those meetings, I had more 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:09.699 experience than some of the people running those 00:37:09.699 --> 00:37:13.199 meetings. Yeah. And yet my voice wasn't... What 00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:16.860 could be done better to... enable your voice 00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:19.179 because if you don't have a voice then my goodness 00:37:19.179 --> 00:37:21.000 what are other parents doing that don't have 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.480 the degree and the experience and the know -how 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:25.880 and know all the acronyms and the words you know 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:27.880 that some parents really don't know that they 00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:29.980 find meetings or just being in school incredibly 00:37:29.980 --> 00:37:34.480 triggering what can we do to support that because 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:38.239 that's the first step isn't it it has to be it 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:40.380 has to be and it's listening And it's really 00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:43.219 listening. It's not just going, oh, you know, 00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:45.199 Mrs. Whatever or Miss Whoever, because I'm a 00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:47.400 miss, is that, you know, do you want to give 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:49.900 us some feedback? And it's kind of like a formality 00:37:49.900 --> 00:37:53.760 in the meeting. And there's got to be a space 00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:58.139 for that parent's voice that people properly 00:37:58.139 --> 00:38:00.619 listen to and don't just go, yeah, we've got 00:38:00.619 --> 00:38:03.039 mum's opinion. And we're on to the next bit. 00:38:03.139 --> 00:38:05.719 Let's get a professional in now to give us their 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:08.639 opinion. And we need the professionals in there 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:10.519 because as parents, we don't know everything 00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:14.239 in that sense, but we do know our kids. And I 00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:17.500 think one, it's being listened to, but two, it's 00:38:17.500 --> 00:38:19.980 finding a way that that parent can communicate 00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:22.340 in that meeting. I have parents that come to 00:38:22.340 --> 00:38:24.219 me that say they get into a meeting and then 00:38:24.219 --> 00:38:26.559 they can't speak. They're so intimidated by being 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:30.400 in there. They can't speak. parents that go in 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:33.559 that might be dyslexic like i am and they struggle 00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:35.659 to hold the information in their head that they 00:38:35.659 --> 00:38:37.599 want to get through and then they come out and 00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:39.880 go oh i wish i'd said whatever and they haven't 00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:42.420 been able to there might be parents that are 00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:44.300 neurodivergent in other ways they could be autistic 00:38:44.300 --> 00:38:47.780 or adhd and they find meetings particularly difficult 00:38:47.780 --> 00:38:51.860 so is there a way make me normalizing you know 00:38:51.860 --> 00:38:53.460 if you want to bring in somebody to help you 00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:55.719 that's okay if you want to write things down 00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.920 that's okay if you prefer to have it on Zoom 00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:01.960 call because that's easier. That's okay. If you'd 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:04.059 prefer to do it by email because we can bullet 00:39:04.059 --> 00:39:07.679 point it, that's okay. Find a way they can do 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.659 it. That's okay. And just so you know about EHCP 00:39:10.659 --> 00:39:13.619 meetings, we have 15 days after the meeting before 00:39:13.619 --> 00:39:17.119 the thing needs sending off. So if you want the 00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:19.320 meeting and then have think of thoughts, oh, 00:39:19.340 --> 00:39:20.420 I should have said this, I should have said this, 00:39:20.420 --> 00:39:23.480 please email because we can include whatever 00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:27.079 you want. from 15 days from the point of the 00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:29.780 meeting in that paperwork i'd way rather you 00:39:29.780 --> 00:39:32.920 do that than not do it at all it's so important 00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:36.199 your voice is embedded in this paperwork because 00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:39.219 you are the most important person at that meeting 00:39:39.219 --> 00:39:43.000 and ehcp reviews again reviews can bring with 00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:44.780 them a lot of stress as well you know a lot of 00:39:44.780 --> 00:39:46.659 parents have been through a lot getting their 00:39:46.659 --> 00:39:49.300 ehcp in place um every year you know even for 00:39:49.300 --> 00:39:51.679 me when i'm going through my review for the atos 00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:54.480 package every year i think Are they going to 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.099 take it away from me every year? And I'm anxious 00:39:57.099 --> 00:39:58.760 before I get there. I don't know what the local 00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:00.579 authority are going to come with or because the 00:40:00.579 --> 00:40:02.639 local authority run mine. I think sometimes in 00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.739 schools, you don't get much input from the local 00:40:04.739 --> 00:40:08.820 authority each year. There is being mindful as 00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:10.199 well in those times that those parents are going 00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:13.340 to come with maybe not experience of your school 00:40:13.340 --> 00:40:16.400 or your place of provision, but they've come 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.260 with experience from elsewhere that they're not 00:40:20.260 --> 00:40:24.260 always listened to or believed or heard. when 00:40:24.260 --> 00:40:26.460 it comes to those things and on all of that adds 00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:29.360 up and that constant kind of drip drip stress 00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:32.400 effect is where we end up down those burnout 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:35.980 routes for parents the capacity is reached and 00:40:35.980 --> 00:40:38.619 they're out over the top and and then my worry 00:40:38.619 --> 00:40:40.659 is for people when they burn out is the recovery 00:40:40.659 --> 00:40:42.960 is so much longer than the prevention if that 00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:45.690 makes sense yeah If we can get the prevention 00:40:45.690 --> 00:40:47.809 in there and the protection in there, you're 00:40:47.809 --> 00:40:49.789 protecting so many other people than just a parent 00:40:49.789 --> 00:40:52.110 because there is a definite ripple effect. And 00:40:52.110 --> 00:40:54.369 that's not placing blame on those parents, but 00:40:54.369 --> 00:40:56.150 there will be a ripple effect for a parent's 00:40:56.150 --> 00:40:59.210 burnout. Yeah. Yeah. And they don't want that. 00:40:59.250 --> 00:41:03.730 No one wants that. So if you're listening to 00:41:03.730 --> 00:41:07.349 this and you think it's you, then yeah, definitely 00:41:07.349 --> 00:41:11.190 reach out to... Liz or take on some of that advice 00:41:11.190 --> 00:41:13.409 and try and think of you know think of some things 00:41:13.409 --> 00:41:17.250 that you can add or take away from your day to 00:41:17.250 --> 00:41:19.789 make things more manageable and if you have someone 00:41:19.789 --> 00:41:22.690 in your life whatever in whatever kind of relationship 00:41:22.690 --> 00:41:25.750 with you that this kind of you're you're thinking 00:41:25.750 --> 00:41:28.110 of that person as we're talking then maybe see 00:41:28.110 --> 00:41:29.590 if there's some things that you can take off 00:41:29.590 --> 00:41:32.559 of their plate too and be that person because 00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:34.219 you might be the only person that recognizes 00:41:34.219 --> 00:41:36.719 them that in themselves maybe you could be that 00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.920 person that sees them for the first time in a 00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:42.920 long time and it can be really tiny little things 00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:45.840 that I had somebody when I was in burnout turned 00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:49.460 up at my front door with a meal cooked and they 00:41:49.460 --> 00:41:51.659 didn't stay didn't ask anything of me they just 00:41:51.659 --> 00:41:54.159 went I was making it I had some leftover they 00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:56.159 didn't they made it for me I know they did but 00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:58.190 that's not what they told me Thought you might 00:41:58.190 --> 00:42:00.369 like it. And handed that to me. My kids were 00:42:00.369 --> 00:42:01.809 never going to eat it because they're the pickiest 00:42:01.809 --> 00:42:04.610 eaters in the world. But it meant I didn't have 00:42:04.610 --> 00:42:06.610 to cook yet another meal that night. And it just 00:42:06.610 --> 00:42:11.170 took a bit of load off me in that moment. And 00:42:11.170 --> 00:42:13.829 that made such a difference to me. Just something 00:42:13.829 --> 00:42:16.309 little like that. Yeah, and it's not even about 00:42:16.309 --> 00:42:18.829 the meal, is it? It's about that person taking 00:42:18.829 --> 00:42:23.630 the time to see you and do something. Yeah, you 00:42:23.630 --> 00:42:25.510 were in somebody else's thoughts. Somebody else 00:42:25.510 --> 00:42:28.380 was, let's face it. We want to be thought about. 00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:30.360 We want to be held in mind. No one wants to be 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:33.239 forgotten. And actually little things like that 00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.059 show that somebody's kept you in mind. And that 00:42:36.059 --> 00:42:39.059 means a lot. Definitely. Such an important conversation. 00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:42.179 If people are listening to this, what would you 00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:47.880 want them to take from this conversation? I think 00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:50.559 the biggest thing is that... It sounds a bit 00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:52.760 cliche, but burnout isn't the end of the story. 00:42:53.059 --> 00:42:55.539 I think I'm very frightened of burnout. And I 00:42:55.539 --> 00:42:57.960 know that I still flirt around the edges of burnout. 00:42:58.099 --> 00:43:00.840 We're not immune to it. Things are going to happen 00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:04.539 in our lives. And if you do burn out or you feel 00:43:04.539 --> 00:43:07.159 you're burning out, it is not because you are 00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:09.719 less of a parent. You have failed in some way. 00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:14.789 It means that. the demands on you have outweighed 00:43:14.789 --> 00:43:17.429 your capacity it's not that you can't do it you 00:43:17.429 --> 00:43:20.210 don't have the skills to do it it means that 00:43:20.210 --> 00:43:23.050 actually the environment the situation that you 00:43:23.050 --> 00:43:26.789 found yourself in has exceeded your capacity 00:43:26.789 --> 00:43:30.510 and that is not a failure that's something else 00:43:30.510 --> 00:43:33.489 going on that and that's not the end of the story 00:43:33.489 --> 00:43:35.769 there are things you can put in place there's 00:43:35.769 --> 00:43:38.369 protections you can put in place and yeah don't 00:43:38.369 --> 00:43:40.349 give up it's not the end of the story the burnout 00:43:41.269 --> 00:43:43.630 Absolutely. If people want to find out more about 00:43:43.630 --> 00:43:46.489 you and how you support, where can they find 00:43:46.489 --> 00:43:49.750 you? So I've got my website. You can find me 00:43:49.750 --> 00:43:52.170 on that, which is the Untypical OT. If you put 00:43:52.170 --> 00:43:54.309 that into Google, it will pop up. I'm also on 00:43:54.309 --> 00:43:58.630 Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. And the other 00:43:58.630 --> 00:44:00.670 thing I suppose to pop in there is that a lot 00:44:00.670 --> 00:44:04.349 of parents don't always think one OT could help 00:44:04.349 --> 00:44:07.510 me. People think occupational therapy, that's 00:44:07.510 --> 00:44:09.650 my kids. Occupational therapy, they do the swing 00:44:09.650 --> 00:44:13.519 stuff. So I have got on my Facebook, on my website, 00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:16.860 there's a PDF about what is OT anyway. And it 00:44:16.860 --> 00:44:19.059 just talks through what an OT is. And actually, 00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:21.659 we don't just work with kids. We work with all 00:44:21.659 --> 00:44:24.559 across the lifespan. And parents often think 00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:28.179 I work with them to help their kids. By looking 00:44:28.179 --> 00:44:30.559 after us, I do help their kids. They do help 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:33.679 their kids. But I work with parents to support 00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:36.039 them and their mental health and their well -being. 00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.219 And you can find me on all of those social media 00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:41.239 platforms. Amazing. Thank you so much, Liz. Such 00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:42.760 an important conversation. I know this is going 00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:45.260 to be one that I share with many parents that 00:44:45.260 --> 00:44:47.500 I get in my DMs. So thank you so much for being 00:44:47.500 --> 00:44:51.400 here. And I'll leave all the information that 00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:53.320 you've shared in the description down below. 00:44:53.420 --> 00:44:55.340 So if you need to clickable links, it'll be all 00:44:55.340 --> 00:44:58.119 down there. Thank you, Liz. Thanks for having 00:44:58.119 --> 00:44:58.260 me.