Hi, my name is Jordan. I am a special education
teacher from the UK. I share my passion for everything
communication, sensory regulation and fun lesson
ideas for my classroom of disabled pupils aged
4 to 11. Each week I am joined by experts in
the field answering your questions and sharing
our knowledge and experience working alongside
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today. Now to the episode. Hello everybody and
welcome to the Sensory Classroom podcast. My
name is Jordan and today I'm joined by Liz Evans
from the Untypical OT. Liz is an occupational
therapist and solo parent in a neurodiverse family.
She supports neurodivergent parents to protect
against burnout, to move from survival to peace
through a neuroaffirming, trauma and sensory
responsive approach. I'm really excited to speak
to her about the all -important topic of parental
burnout and the sensory side of parenting today.
Hello, Liz. Hi, Jordan. Thanks for having me.
You are so welcome. An important topic. something
I mean gosh this is episode 63 now of my podcast
and we've skirted around this topic and I don't
know why I've had lots of parents on and maybe
they just don't want to talk about it maybe they're
not comfortable talking about it there's a lot
of unfortunate shame around this topic but it
is very real do you mind I suppose so people
can understand where you're coming from in this
and why we've chosen to talk about this today
from your perspective a little bit about you
and your family yeah absolutely so firstly yeah
as you say parental burnout very real and I was
in it even with the job that I do and the work
that I do I ended up in burnout and lots of people
were kind of talking about you know autistic
burnout or neurodivergent burnout I think that
probably played a part in my burnout but actually
the majority of my burnout came from the parenting
responsibilities roles and the difficulties that
we found ourselves in and where that started
was I have to myself I'm dyslexic I have a an
older son who is in mainstream And I have a son
who is on an EASOS package, so educated other
than at school. So we weren't able to find a
school to meet his needs. He's educated at home,
funded through the local authority, and he's
diagnosed as autistic. And he had a huge mental
health breakdown whilst in school. I was working.
I'm a solo parent. It was really, really hard
and not knowing kind of what to do. And eventually
we had to go through the process of... Diagnostics,
EHCP applications. You didn't even have an EHCP
at that point. No, nothing. No, nothing. And
we ended up at tribunal. The county took me all
the way to tribunal. Naively, I think I thought
as an OT, my background as an occupational therapist,
I've worked in child and adolescent mental health.
I've worked in community pediatric teams. I've
worked in specialty schools. I thought, I know
it's hard, but I reckon I can get through this.
Boy, was I wrong. And that, I think, was a big
wake -up call for me as a therapist, that I knew
it was hard, but I didn't realise quite how hard.
And even with the knowledge that I had, I was
still coming up against the difficulties that
other parents were. And I thought, I somehow
naively thought I could navigate my way through
that. Yeah, really, really wrong. And I don't
think I'm the only professional. I'm finding
more and more now as I'm kind of talking about
it as a professional, other professionals going,
Actually, yeah, I've had exactly the same. I
thought I would get through it and I didn't.
So I had this mission, Jordan. I had this mission
that I felt I had to do something about was I
had to help protect other parents against burnout.
Because typical kind of burnout, when people
go, oh, just do a bit more self -care, that doesn't
work. Have a bath, go and get a massage. It doesn't
even touch the sides. Go and have a bit more
of a sleep. You could send me to Barbados for
two weeks on my own. It wouldn't even touch the
sides. So I knew things had to be different and
I knew that I had to use kind of my OT skills
to be able to do that. But actually the kind
of very stereotypical, how do we support people
in burnout, wasn't going to work for us. if we
were one neurodivergent parents or if we weren't
sure whether we were neurodivergent as parents
or when you're a typical in neurodivergent families,
that typical just take a rest was not going to
cut it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what you're dealing
with is so much more than exhaustion, isn't it?
Absolutely. Can you explain a little bit about
how this burnout is different? I've certainly
seen it as a teacher with parents, usually the
children that, have haven't got a school place
a suitable school place and but also parents
that are fighting for diagnosis for EHCP for
the EHCP to then be met for AAC devices for the
right therapy it's almost like the relentlessness
of the fight you just feel like you're getting
somewhere and then you've just got a whole other
barrier. Is that what makes it different? Is
there even more than that? I think the difference
is as well is that, if you look at the diagnostic
criteria, workplace burnout is the only burnout
that is recognised. So if you look at the WHO
definition, which is the World Health Organisation,
they only refer to workplace burnout. which I
think is rubbish. And when I get into my occupational
therapy hat on, when I'm looking at occupation
is more than just work, it's all the things that
we have to do and want to do, is I don't understand
how burnout can just happen in a workplace. Burnout
can happen anywhere. And I think there is some
research and some stats around burnout is higher
in parents with kids with additional needs. And
I... suspect and I've got no evidence of this
one but my kind of feeling of that is that we
often find ourselves in systems that we are we
can't change so when you burn out and you get
stressed or overwhelmed by something the natural
reaction is to go okay well I'm going to step
away from that I'm going to move away from it
or if it's your job you might think well I'm
not going to continue in that job I'll go get
another job but when you're talking about parenting
and you find yourself in systems that you can't
step outside of that's I think where you end
up with the parental burnout it is like you say
it's the consistent stress it's being overwhelmed
and your capacity to deal with chronic stress
that just keeps coming at you and you don't get
a chance to recover and there's the sciencey
bit behind that but basically we need to be able
to go into a part of our autonomic nervous system
to be able to recover from stress and when you're
in high levels of stress which some of us as
parents in neurodivergent families are and for
me it was at some points I was trying to keep
my son alive It was that serious and I was coming
up against a system that was unfeeling, uncaring,
unmovable, uncontactable. There was no person.
It was just this thing in our lives that I felt
was having a huge impact on my family and our
well -being and I couldn't change it. And as
a parent, that is terrifying. Yeah, and I feel
like I've seen parents that can take any... thing
for themselves like they're mistreated they're
not spoken to they're ignored for themselves
they can almost take that but it's one more step
on it's the injustice of it all but it's the
most vulnerable in our society that are being
time and time again ignored and you don't you
have less time less energy less capacity to have
this fight and yet you're the ones that are forced
in this position But it's not even your fight.
You're fighting for your children, which makes
it even more burnoutable, I suppose, because
you just have to keep going for them. I feel
like if it was for you, you would have stopped
ages ago. You would, like wrongly, obviously,
but you'd have stopped ages ago because you'd
have just accepted, you know, that that can't
be done. Yeah. But of course you don't because
you're fighting for the voices. You're fighting
for these people that you love so much. desperate
to protect and of course that leads to burnout
because you're human yeah you just it outweighs
your capacity to keep going and i think it was
you know as part of my burnout was that i went
i got through the stuff that i needed to do and
that's often what happens you're running on adrenaline
and all your stress hormones are kicking in and
i got through the tribunal all but kind of all
but carried across the finish line by an advocate
that I thought I could get through tribunal.
I couldn't. I had to get some support in to do
it. And it wasn't until we got through tribunal,
that's when my burnout hit. And boy, did it hit.
It came in from the side and literally took me
off my feet. And I think a lot of parents, the
stress of dealing, because people think I'm talking
about, when I talk about parental burnout, they
think I'm talking about burnout from their children.
Yes. I was saying that. Yeah, exactly that. I
think that's exactly what people think. They're
like, oh, you're tired. You're like physically
harmed. It's not at all true to the children.
If the systems were in place to support your
family, you'd thrive. Yeah, it's exactly that.
And I really try to push that point home is that,
yes, our kids stress us out. You know, I've met
parents that haven't got neurodivergent kids.
Their kids push them to the limits and kids do
that to us. But this is kind of a next level
and it's being able to... you know more and more
I talk to parents and for me personally as well
it was about trying to keep my kids safe I needed
to keep him safe and I wasn't being allowed to
do that as a parent and when you think about
what's the kind of I mean my kids laugh and joke
at me because I'll go to them what's the one
thing I've got to do and they go keep us safe
But ultimately that is the bottom line. As a
parent, I've got to make sure my kids get to
the end of the day. If we get fed and everyone's
happy and watered and whatever, that's a bonus.
But they are at the end of the day and I've got
them there. Okay, tick, I've done the job that
day. And you're coming up against systems that
either don't allow you to do that or make it
so difficult to do that. And I hear lots of,
and as part of being a professional, I've been
in those conversations and heard those conversations
of that parent. They're a tricky parent. They're
a difficult parent. Watch out for that parent.
They're a bit of a handful. And mine, I try to
talk a lot now with professionals that I supervise
and stuff like that. But why? Why do you think
they're like that? Where's that come from? And
a lot of the time, I'd say 99 .9 % of the time,
anxiety. They're really worried. They're frightened
and they don't know what to do. So they come
at it with the only skills they've got available
to them. And that might be being really difficult.
Yeah. And also, so sometimes I get students that
are year five. So they're age 10. They've had
10 years of fighting the health care system,
the education system, county, all of these fights.
They're used to that being their baseline. They're
used to having to fight. So finally, when they
come to us. They've still got that fight, that
adrenaline still spike. They're still ready for
it to go wrong because everything else has before.
And you've got to respect that as an educator.
If you're a teacher listening and you've got
these fight or fright parents, that is what it
is. They are waiting for it to fail because they've
only ever. And they don't feel safe. The kids
aren't safe and they don't feel safe. And when
you're in that part of your brain, in that stress
response, you are in protection mode. It's fight,
flight or freeze. And there's others, but fight,
flight and freeze are your main ones. And as
you say, if you've got a parent that's been in
that stress response for so long, moving out
of that takes a long time, a long, long time.
And I think there's some difficulty in some of
the work that I do with parents is... They often
don't realise they're burnt out. It's become
normal. They're literally functioning. I was
functioning. I had two kids. I'm a solo parent.
I had no choice. But I was burnt out. I couldn't
give my kids what they needed. Somebody said
to me once, you know, what do you enjoy doing?
I just burst into tears on them because I thought,
I don't know anymore. I'm so used to being in
this protection mode. Doing things that I enjoyed
had gone out the window completely. Yeah, you
didn't even know yourself. Is that the long...
term effect of being in this mode and are there
other long -term effects that you're noticing
either in yourself or in others of this long
-term sustained burnout mode I think some I think
the main one for me was the exhaustion and I
think most parents will kind of go to you oh
that's just being a parent you're always tired
but this exhaustion was different I knew it was
different it was and the only way I could describe
it is it's bone tired a bit like you know when
you get flu like I can't physically move my bones
ache um it's that level of exhaustion on a daily
basis that you're kind of you get up and you
go through the process but if you gave me a bed
to lie down on I would probably just that would
be me done and you probably wouldn't get me back
out of it um and People say to me, well, take
a rest. But there was always that fear in me
that if I took a rest, I wouldn't get back up
again. So I just kept going and kept going and
kept going and kept going. And so it's things
like that. It's things like I found my tolerance
to things went down. We probably might touch
on some sensory stuff later. But for me, I know
I can be tactile defensive. I find being touched
quite a lot quite difficult. But I can kind of
manage it. But when I was in burnout, whoa. Don't
come anywhere near me. And I've got one that's
a real hugger. And he loves a hug. And that was
really hard to find a way through. And what do
I do? Do I mask my needs as a parent and give
him what he needs? Or do we find a way through?
We had to find a way through. That meant I could
respect my sensory system and what that needed.
But also I could make that connection with him
and make sure he could still get what he needed.
And we still needed that contact, but could we
do it in a different way? I suppose that adds
to the cycle as well, doesn't it? Of you're feeling
burnt out, so you can't give him what he needs.
So you either mask yourself and get yourself
worse or you ignore, is the wrong word, but don't
give him the exact needs he wants. And then you
feel more shame and you get more burnt out and
the cycle continues. And that's probably happening
in so many different areas of your life in so
many different ways. And I think as parents,
we are notorious at putting our needs bottom
of the pile. Everybody else's needs get put first.
And if there's some space left over, then we
might do something. Women as well. Parents and
women. I think like the double up of that. I
feel like there's three layers there of just
all really bad at meeting your own needs and
putting your needs first. Don't meet my needs.
Sometimes don't know what my needs are. I'm going
to mask them. And mine needs aren't as important
as everybody else's. Again, I try to be really
clear. I'm not saying that parents, we suddenly
forget about what our kids need, dump them. It's
all about us. Yeah, it's unrealistic, isn't it?
That just isn't it. What it is saying is often
I'll say to parents, but what do you do? What
do you do for you? And often I get met with tears
or a silence with people desperately thinking,
I don't know. Or the other one I will get is
trying to explain away why they can't. And I
get that because we don't have huge amounts of
time. You know, people used to say to me, you
just need to go and do this or you just need
to go and do that. I think, when am I going to
do that? I've got a really unwell mental health,
but his mental health is really poorly. I've
got another one in school. I'm working, cleaning
the house, doing dinner. When am I going to do
that? But I think once I kind of came out of
my burnout and was able to put my OT hat back
on, I knew I had to find a way to do something
for me each day, even if. It was the tiniest
thing. And I've got this thing at the moment
that I do, and the boys will laugh at me, but
I sit with a cup of tea at least once a day on
the back doorstep with the door open. Even in
the rain, even in the cold, just because it gives
me a couple of minutes. Do I always get my whole
cup of tea drunk? No. But there is an element
of protected space. I can still hear the kids
in the background. If it's all kicking off, I
can go and help. But they know that's my time.
And I will say to them, if I can, and it's safe
to, just give me two minutes. I've got one that
will set a timer. Give me two minutes. I need
this time out somewhere. And I talk about it
being a pause rather than a full stop. You can
find time for a pause, but we can't always find
time for great big long, you know, I'm going
to take the whole day off and go to a spa. That's
not going to happen. And do you think that little
and often has helped you be realistic? Absolutely.
It's little and often finding something to do
for me and trying to bring back in. And it sounds
a bit cheesy, but bringing in a bit of joy for
me. Because I really did get to that point where
I thought, I don't know what I like anymore.
I don't know what I do that I enjoy. Some of
that I think is probably all parents go through
that. There's an element of we take on a parenting
role. Our life becomes about taking the kids
wherever they want to go, whatever they want
to do. And we do lose a sense of who we are.
And possibly as well, we get to a certain age
where the activities that we did in our 20s are
not what we can do in our mid 40s. You know,
I decided I was going to go back to netball.
My body did not thank me for that. Maybe a bit
ambitious. Yeah. But I thought, I know what I'm
going to find something for me. Also how great
that that's what you were thinking. Like, it's
almost like. that you had gone and tried it.
Like that's sometimes just trying something new
is the thing, isn't it? Absolutely. And I think,
I mean, people that follow me will know that
I have, I've decided to ride a motorbike. I'm
47 years old. I'm arthritic. I struggle with
my arthritis, but I thought I'm going to learn
to ride a motorbike. Why not? I'm just going
to do that. And there are some days that I get
on the motorbike and I just go around and do
little loops outside. I'm still learning, so
I'm still not that great. It's really hard as
well. I learned to ride last year and it's really
hard. That feeling of also doing something new,
doing something difficult, doing something hard.
You also, when you're learning something like
that, you have to really concentrate. It's very
mindful. You have to be in the now. You cannot
be thinking about anything else other than your
gears, your balance, what's happening on the
road and all of those things. And maybe if meditation
doesn't work, that's your meditation. You have
to be, like, active in your meditation. You have
to be active in your mindfulness. And, yeah,
doing something difficult and active, I can imagine,
is a great thing to do. Yeah. I mean, probably
motorbiking is probably quite extreme. I'm not
saying to everyone, like, if you motorbike, you'll
have, like, masses of mums now gearing up for
motorbiking. I mean, I'm here for it. I think
it'd be great. Absolutely. Put the kids in a
sidecar. I'm here for it. But like you said,
there's also for me, there's a massive sensory
element in biking. And I've got a partner that
bikes and that's how I first got into it is I
go pillion with him. And he said he thinks I'm
the only person that he knows that gets on as
a pillion rider and can go to sleep on the back
of the motorbike. Which, don't worry, I am safe.
He's got like a one that's kind of... Is it the
white noise? Is it the vibration? The white noise
and the vibration. So when you're on the motorbike,
you just get that sound with all the wind. I
think there's no demands of me. I can't pick
up a telephone. I can't respond to anything.
And sometimes my partner laughs as I get off
the other end and I go, I've had about 20 billion
different ideas, usually about work, and I'm
off about something. He's like, oh God, she's
off. But other times I get that space and that
quiet. He's driving. I don't even think about
the driving. I literally just sit. And like you
say, in the moment, I've got countryside around
me or whatever it is around me. and and the vibrations
with me and i can just film what i start like
this i think he can tell because my helmet will
hit the back of his you'll have to get in um
helmet mike so that he can yeah are you still
with me yeah hello hello after liz yeah yeah
whereas i think you say with the driving if parents
can't have access to a motorbike with your ot
hat on what are the sensory things that they
can do regulate and be in their bodies and ground
themselves because that's what we're talking
about here isn't it yeah so the biggest thing
i would say is one is finding something that
you enjoy and brings you some form of joy whatever
that is and the other thing is movement and that
movement can be any kind of movement and we know
that when we get stressed and anxious our bodies
produce chemicals within us to keep us safe get
us ready for flight flight freeze responses all
that kind of stuff but actually In the days when
we would have run, we would have used those chemicals
to be able to do those things. When that doesn't
happen now, it stays within our body. We get
like a truncated response. It stays within us.
And then that's what can make us poorly. High
levels of cortisol, all that kind of stuff. So
we need to move our bodies. And we know from
a sensory perspective that is calming and regulating.
And it can be anything. I'll say to some of my
parents, you can't get out. If you've got kids
that have got significant needs that you can't
leave the house, I'm talking about just walking
up and down the stairs three times, that kind
of thing. If you've got a garden, but it's only
a little one, can you walk around the garden
and be outside? But how can you move your body
today in some way? If that's having a dance with
one of the kids, if it's a walk that you've got
that you do. you know even just round the block
a really quick one and some people will say and
I think I felt like that is when I was deep in
burnout I couldn't even I couldn't I couldn't
go outside I didn't want to go outside and movement
was really hard and what I'd say at those points
is even just thinking about going to do it can
help So it might be, I don't get too much into
the visualization stuff and making things, I'd
ground it very much in reality. So if you've
got a loop that you do around your house, you
know, around the block, could you visualize that
loop that you just start to think about doing
it? Because starting to think about it will mean
you'll get to the point of being able to do it.
But actually the tendency and what we tend to
want to do is to do nothing when we're burnt
out. We just stop and I'll get my... OT hat on
that actually we need to be doing within reason
we need to be able to recover but we are occupational
beings we are doing beings and that when we stay
still for too long that can make us even more
poorly so I think movement is a big thing for
me sensory wise I think that's a benefit for
the children as well not only to have a more
regulated co -regulated parent But also the movement
for them, the outside time for them is also important.
So don't think of it as, oh, I'm being so selfish,
I'm doing this for me, which would often just
build this cycle. Actually, you are doing it
for them. Everything you do to make yourself
more regulated, more grounded and more ready,
it's going to make you better for them. Absolutely.
And I think what's hard for parents is people
like you and I, Jordan, that know about our sensory
systems. A lot of parents, and I've done some
work with this with parents, is they can tell
me their kid's sensory system and their kid's
sensory profile. They don't know theirs. And
so I do some work with parents around starting
to recognize your own sensory profile. Because
sometimes our sensory profiles clash with our
kids. Yeah, well, like you said, with the hugging,
it makes so much sense that once you knew that,
you could honor their need and your own. Whereas
without knowing your own, you're just wondering.
why it feels so difficult for you to meet their
needs without realizing why I think internally
what I would do then with that before I kind
of put two and two together which seems ridiculous
as no tea but I think when you're in it it's
really hard to get the perspective isn't it hopefully
so I think When I was in it, I felt very shameful
of that reaction. It made me feel like I was
a bad parent, that I didn't want my kids near
me, that I should be enjoying my time with my
kids. I should enjoy a hug with my kids. And
I'm an awful person because they're trying to
hug me and I want them to be as far away as possible.
That's really hard. It wasn't until I had to
start working through that and thinking, why
am I feeling that? I know why you're feeling
that. Because actually, you don't like being
hugged by anyone particularly. And when I'm stressed,
that's even harder. That tolerance has gone.
So we talk about being curious, don't we? Being
curious about why our children are doing certain
things and the importance of curiosity rather
than, you know, seeing it as what we believe
is like negative behavior or purposeful or attention
seeking or anything like that. Let's just be
curious. But maybe we're not being curious enough
about our own needs. Why are we struggling with
certain things? Why are we not enjoying a certain
experience? Why are we avoidant of certain things
and being curious about our own selves too? What
are some ways that if you've got a parent that
is exactly as you describe in your support network,
or maybe you're a teacher, you know, you're aware
of what you're talking about isn't them, but
it's definitely someone they know about. How
can they be actual help to that person? Is there
a way that they could be actual help to that
person? It's really funny because I often, when
I'm talking direct to the parents, I talk to
them about finding a safe circle and finding
a safe circle with people that you feel you can
be really open and honest about when you're talking.
Those people that don't have those people in
your group that go, you just need to, you know,
you just need to go and get some more self -care.
You just need to go and do whatever it is. is
making sure you've got that safe circle. I think
if you're working with people like a parent and
you suspect they could be burnt out, is recognising
that. And I don't mean by going, I think you're
burnt out to the parent. But acknowledging to
you and yourself and the way that you're working
with that parent is thinking, okay, this parent
possibly could be burnt out. If they are burnt
out, they are going to be struggling to take
on information. They are going to be struggling
to implement what. I'm asking them to do because
often as professionals, we are saying to parents
all the things we need them to go and do on top
of all the other things they are doing. And I
work quite, in my days when I work more with
the kids, I used to be really mindful of that.
I wasn't sending parents home with more and more
work to do and more and more demand on them because
actually that's really, really hard. They've
got enough to do. And I know some professionals
would be like, they just come in and want me
to sort their kids out. Of course they do. They
are knackered. They were absolutely shattered.
And then the thought of another professional
saying to them, oh, here's a program to take
home. Here's a this to deliver. Here's a this
to practice. Which is obvious, right? Let's not
fool ourselves. I've had so many meetings where
it might as well be targets for the parent rather
than targets. child yes because it's right you
just need to do symbols you just need to start
an AAC device but you need to model it at all
times and you just need to start sensory circuits
you know four or five times a day and you just
need and it's this parent goes home with just
so much many things and targets and unrealistic
things to do yes they'd all be wonderful of course
they'd be all great they're not wrong is it realistic
are we just putting that family into burnout
even more yes and i think it's you know how can
you what could you take off that parent if you
want them to do something is there something
else you could take off is there a telephone
call you could make that they've been trying
to make and not getting a response to where could
you support that parent what could you do to
support them and then the other thing that i
talk about as well with professionals is is starting
to recognize sensory stuff and doing that by
kind of modeling for ourselves So I often don't
get into, you know, telling a parent where they
might have sensory needs. But what you might
do is start talking about you as a teacher or
you as a whatever professional you are, or if
you're a friend or whatever it is, talking about
your sensory needs. You know, I find it really
difficult normalizing language around sensory
reactions that we've all got a sensory profile,
every single one of us. And every single one
of us is unique in our sensory profile. No one's
is the same. And they flex and they move depending
on our stress levels or how safe and relaxed
we feel. But normalising language around sensory
information and sensory processing and our sensory
reactions, our sensory needs. I often, parents
will say to me, oh, so -and -so's got weighted
blankets is often a very common one. I steal
it all the time. I'm like, steal it more? In
fact, get yourself one. You don't have to feel
bad about using. a weighted blanket, if it feels
nice, use it more. You've found something that
works. And things like, you know, often parents
go to me, oh, you know, I've got like, they call
them fidget toys or whatever you want to call
them. But they've got something, they've stolen
it off one of the kids that they will kind of
say, well, yeah, when I'm on meetings and stuff
on calls, on Zoom calls, I've got one and I use
it. Use it more. Put it in your handbag. Take
it with you somewhere. Have it. Wherever it might
be, if you're going to a meeting that's really
tricky, take it with you. Help find a way that
you can regulate your sensory system. And sometimes
that's just playing around with what works for
you and what doesn't, if that makes sense. I
put on parents, that would make it harder, making
them do the phone call. giving them unnecessary
targets even unnecessary meetings you know it
doesn't need to be a meeting or can it just be
an email giving things visually as well maybe
giving them a list written down of all the information
rather than saying over the phone and expecting
them to retain that information and that isn't
patronizing this isn't patronizing this is support
systems and if you genuinely want to help his
family then then this is what can make and then
maybe also just making sure that you have the
relationship and embed that kind of relationship
where they can say what they need or can say
when something is or isn't helpful because without
that they're just going to stay in that unsafe
mode you know it's really important to try and
build on that relationship and that trust as
much as you can And that starts with you liking
and loving and advocating for their child as
much as they are. I think if they see that, that
is a really easy way of building trust with them
because ultimately that is all they want from
the world is just for their child to be seen
and heard and loved. So even if you can't do
anything with the parent, just love their child,
I would say, is probably the easiest advice I
could give because it just means, I mean, God,
I've had parents in tears over. burnout for sure
but when they really go is when they just see
that we love and see their child because they
just yeah relief finally it's not just me that
loves their child see no it's not just me that
doesn't see him as unlikable unlovable unteachable
and all those things that they've been maybe
not told as clearly as that but through behaviors
of other people or through attitudes of other
people they've certainly been shown that they
think those things so just to love their child
and see and advocate for their child as much
as they do is a huge start you know and then
work off of that in that relationship building
that certainly that's certainly the way i go
is um and as a as a special education teacher
and all teachers are special education teachers
um these days I think it is crucial that we prioritise
those relationships. It's a really intimate relationship,
the teacher -parent relationship when you've
got a send child, because your child might not
be able to communicate between home and school
as well as other children can. Even if they have
words, they still might not be able to communicate
what's happened. You know, they're quite vulnerable
in that way and that can breed a lot of fear.
So as teachers, if we're really supporting that
communication. and yeah building that relationship
we have our kids in our class for seven years
um and we're like family by the time they leave
year six we really are um I love that I know
what football teams they support and all their
siblings names and you know their dad's names
and their grandma I recognize at the gate and
all those wonderful things you just know them
so intimately and even if you've got a child
for a year you know I think it's really important
that we We, as teachers, prioritise that, actually
really seeing the family, knowing the family
and not just doing the... Absolutely. I think
it feels often our kids that have got additional
needs are quite vulnerable in whatever way it
is. Even those kids that maybe their behaviours
are bigger behaviours, more outward behaviours,
that even those kids are vulnerable. But us as
parents to go, yeah, have my child. You know,
I remember sometimes my kids going to school
and everything in me is screaming, don't send
them. Keep hold of them. They're not safe. You
keep hold of them. I don't trust what's going
to happen when they're out of my sight. And some
people would go, oh, that's overattachment and
all that kind of stuff. No, I think that was
just being a mum and being a mum. They're not
safe. Let's be honest. Like in school, sometimes
their needs aren't met. best they can sometimes
they're not heard or listened to sometimes damaging
and harmful systems are used so actually as a
parent it's really important you listen to that
gut sense because let's safeguard your children
and definitely have that open communication and
definitely be that tricky parent of questioning
systems things if they don't feel right in your
gut please question them I'd way rather be questioned
and you know, have a moment to either justify
my response or maybe question what I'm doing
if a parent isn't sure. So please be that tricky
parent first off. And please give us as much
information as you want us to know. Something
that I get asked a lot when children are starting
school for the first time, whatever age they
are, you know, they could be starting a new setting
or whatever, what information to give. And I
just say... give me everything. Don't worry about
being that parent of like, oh, they do this on
a Monday and they don't like this and they do
that. Please tell us everything because it gives
us something to work off of. I love the parents
that write in the homeschool book every day and
are calling, emailing and all those things or
talking to us at the gate because it gets us
to know you and your child and it definitely
makes the job. a lot easier and then maybe as
teachers we could be doing the same for parents
making sure we're communicating what they've
done that day what they found tricky you know
what isn't going well and being honest about
that rather than hiding it I feel like goes a
long way about building that trust as well what
are we struggling with maybe we ask the parent
what they do what have they tried what do they
suggest you know giving them a voice for the
first time um advocate for their child and to
support us to support them i think is really
important because ultimately the parent is the
expert in their in their child yeah we talk about
experts and parents the parents are the experts
but often i think they don't feel well they might
feel it but they it's not acknowledged as that
and i think you know i even experienced that
going into meetings for my son is I've run meetings,
I've run an EHCP, I've done all sorts of stuff
as an occupational therapist. But when I went
into a meeting as a mum, as my son's mum, I suddenly
felt I had no voice. My voice disappeared. And
actually in some of those meetings, I had more
experience than some of the people running those
meetings. Yeah. And yet my voice wasn't... What
could be done better to... enable your voice
because if you don't have a voice then my goodness
what are other parents doing that don't have
the degree and the experience and the know -how
and know all the acronyms and the words you know
that some parents really don't know that they
find meetings or just being in school incredibly
triggering what can we do to support that because
that's the first step isn't it it has to be it
has to be and it's listening And it's really
listening. It's not just going, oh, you know,
Mrs. Whatever or Miss Whoever, because I'm a
miss, is that, you know, do you want to give
us some feedback? And it's kind of like a formality
in the meeting. And there's got to be a space
for that parent's voice that people properly
listen to and don't just go, yeah, we've got
mum's opinion. And we're on to the next bit.
Let's get a professional in now to give us their
opinion. And we need the professionals in there
because as parents, we don't know everything
in that sense, but we do know our kids. And I
think one, it's being listened to, but two, it's
finding a way that that parent can communicate
in that meeting. I have parents that come to
me that say they get into a meeting and then
they can't speak. They're so intimidated by being
in there. They can't speak. parents that go in
that might be dyslexic like i am and they struggle
to hold the information in their head that they
want to get through and then they come out and
go oh i wish i'd said whatever and they haven't
been able to there might be parents that are
neurodivergent in other ways they could be autistic
or adhd and they find meetings particularly difficult
so is there a way make me normalizing you know
if you want to bring in somebody to help you
that's okay if you want to write things down
that's okay if you prefer to have it on Zoom
call because that's easier. That's okay. If you'd
prefer to do it by email because we can bullet
point it, that's okay. Find a way they can do
it. That's okay. And just so you know about EHCP
meetings, we have 15 days after the meeting before
the thing needs sending off. So if you want the
meeting and then have think of thoughts, oh,
I should have said this, I should have said this,
please email because we can include whatever
you want. from 15 days from the point of the
meeting in that paperwork i'd way rather you
do that than not do it at all it's so important
your voice is embedded in this paperwork because
you are the most important person at that meeting
and ehcp reviews again reviews can bring with
them a lot of stress as well you know a lot of
parents have been through a lot getting their
ehcp in place um every year you know even for
me when i'm going through my review for the atos
package every year i think Are they going to
take it away from me every year? And I'm anxious
before I get there. I don't know what the local
authority are going to come with or because the
local authority run mine. I think sometimes in
schools, you don't get much input from the local
authority each year. There is being mindful as
well in those times that those parents are going
to come with maybe not experience of your school
or your place of provision, but they've come
with experience from elsewhere that they're not
always listened to or believed or heard. when
it comes to those things and on all of that adds
up and that constant kind of drip drip stress
effect is where we end up down those burnout
routes for parents the capacity is reached and
they're out over the top and and then my worry
is for people when they burn out is the recovery
is so much longer than the prevention if that
makes sense yeah If we can get the prevention
in there and the protection in there, you're
protecting so many other people than just a parent
because there is a definite ripple effect. And
that's not placing blame on those parents, but
there will be a ripple effect for a parent's
burnout. Yeah. Yeah. And they don't want that.
No one wants that. So if you're listening to
this and you think it's you, then yeah, definitely
reach out to... Liz or take on some of that advice
and try and think of you know think of some things
that you can add or take away from your day to
make things more manageable and if you have someone
in your life whatever in whatever kind of relationship
with you that this kind of you're you're thinking
of that person as we're talking then maybe see
if there's some things that you can take off
of their plate too and be that person because
you might be the only person that recognizes
them that in themselves maybe you could be that
person that sees them for the first time in a
long time and it can be really tiny little things
that I had somebody when I was in burnout turned
up at my front door with a meal cooked and they
didn't stay didn't ask anything of me they just
went I was making it I had some leftover they
didn't they made it for me I know they did but
that's not what they told me Thought you might
like it. And handed that to me. My kids were
never going to eat it because they're the pickiest
eaters in the world. But it meant I didn't have
to cook yet another meal that night. And it just
took a bit of load off me in that moment. And
that made such a difference to me. Just something
little like that. Yeah, and it's not even about
the meal, is it? It's about that person taking
the time to see you and do something. Yeah, you
were in somebody else's thoughts. Somebody else
was, let's face it. We want to be thought about.
We want to be held in mind. No one wants to be
forgotten. And actually little things like that
show that somebody's kept you in mind. And that
means a lot. Definitely. Such an important conversation.
If people are listening to this, what would you
want them to take from this conversation? I think
the biggest thing is that... It sounds a bit
cliche, but burnout isn't the end of the story.
I think I'm very frightened of burnout. And I
know that I still flirt around the edges of burnout.
We're not immune to it. Things are going to happen
in our lives. And if you do burn out or you feel
you're burning out, it is not because you are
less of a parent. You have failed in some way.
It means that. the demands on you have outweighed
your capacity it's not that you can't do it you
don't have the skills to do it it means that
actually the environment the situation that you
found yourself in has exceeded your capacity
and that is not a failure that's something else
going on that and that's not the end of the story
there are things you can put in place there's
protections you can put in place and yeah don't
give up it's not the end of the story the burnout
Absolutely. If people want to find out more about
you and how you support, where can they find
you? So I've got my website. You can find me
on that, which is the Untypical OT. If you put
that into Google, it will pop up. I'm also on
Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. And the other
thing I suppose to pop in there is that a lot
of parents don't always think one OT could help
me. People think occupational therapy, that's
my kids. Occupational therapy, they do the swing
stuff. So I have got on my Facebook, on my website,
there's a PDF about what is OT anyway. And it
just talks through what an OT is. And actually,
we don't just work with kids. We work with all
across the lifespan. And parents often think
I work with them to help their kids. By looking
after us, I do help their kids. They do help
their kids. But I work with parents to support
them and their mental health and their well -being.
And you can find me on all of those social media
platforms. Amazing. Thank you so much, Liz. Such
an important conversation. I know this is going
to be one that I share with many parents that
I get in my DMs. So thank you so much for being
here. And I'll leave all the information that
you've shared in the description down below.
So if you need to clickable links, it'll be all
down there. Thank you, Liz. Thanks for having
me.